The Sheet with Jeff Marek - On the Sheet: Shayna Goldman on Olympic Ice, Quinn Hughes, and more

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Shayna Goldman joins the show with a sharp breakdown of why Quinn Hughes has become the NHL’s most delicate front-office decision point and why any New Jersey–Vancouver conversation has to start at a true MVP valuation, not a feel-good family storyline. She digs into how the league overcorrected from the classic “200-foot” label to now facing a real Olympic-ice identity crisis with the 197-foot wrinkle in Milan, and what that means for player roles, roster construction, and coaching language. From right-shot depth in New Jersey to Vancouver’s fear of committing long-term without progress, Shayna explains the market mechanics, the risk of rushing a deal, and why every contender should at least be kicking tires when a defenseman of Hughes’ tier even becomes theoretically available. Smart, blunt, and context-rich, her segment cuts through rumor noise and gets into actual leverage and design.SHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Bauer: https://www.bauer.com/👍🏼Uber Eats: https://www.ubereats.com/caReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@FNBarnBurner🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the meantime, I pleasure to welcome back to the program. Someone who loves all things dill pickle, probably as much, if not more than I do. She's the great Shannon Goldman, and she joins me on the broadcast now. Hello, Shana. How are you? I'm good. I have an upstate for you. Speaking of dill pickles, I don't think we talked about this yet.

I did try the dill pickle salt fries. I sent you from McDonald's. I did try him. Hold on. Great activation. I love how they're not called. it's not dill pickle salt it's called grinch salt did i get that right yeah okay so how was the dill pickle slash grinch salt which is a great idea by the way it's marvelous um it was good it comes

in a packet so you can mix it yourself uh i only used half the packet it's a little bit much i'll be honest what i yeah okay so it's very salty i think you could have had a little more of like the sweet dill flavor in there to counterbalance it but then again it's grinch salt yeah It works. But I did like it. I did like it. I would get it again. Had to bring that one up.

I got it last week. Excellent. Yeah, you did send me the text about the Grinch Salt. Made my day. I remember just watching hockey games sitting there in my office. And all of a sudden the text pops up with a picture of Dil Picklesalt from my friend, Shana. It's like, yeah, that's the relationship we have. We just send each other Dil Pickleshys.

And off the races, we go. By the way, I don't know if you heard off the top of the program, lobbying for at least one of the coaches of the Olympics to refer to their players as 197 foot players. Can we please have, if any of the coaches are going to say it, it's going to be Cooper, right? Like, you know what? We don't need someone, we don't need a good 200-foot player.

We need like a good 197. We need a 197-foot player. Is that too much to ask? No, it's not. And from Cooper especially, I think he's so careful with his words. I mean, you can tell he was a lawyer based on the way he speaks all the time. He's very deliberate. And I think he's very good at cutting.

with his words without you know he yells and goes off all the time but i think he's very good when he wants to keep it even keel and i think that's just a way to throw shade at the organizers for this i mean colossal fuck up there's not i get it it's it's it's four beat but it's come on you had four fucking gears for this and you can't get the ring size right well you know it's as i said off the top of the show i was going to mention it later on but but here we go i might as well get into it now. So this morning on a show called Le Club de Matins talking about how a group, and I do know one of the members from this group, used to be a goaltender with the Quebec ramparts of the QMJL about a million years ago, had a minor league hockey career. The name is Patrick Couture,

who works for this group. Anyhow, what they were reporting on the show this morning is that This group who makes rinks are called Cinerglass Canada. They most recently just constructed a rink in Tuat Revere, an outdoor rink. They were reporting that this group was approached by people at the Olympics about building an outdoor rink in Cortina, Milan, with the caveat, of course, that the IOC would have to approve and the NHL and the Players Association would have to approve. And I did some snooping

and everybody around it got really, really guarded and nobody wanted to say anything in the sort of spirit of if this is going to happen, we don't want to mess it up. They do business in Europe as well. And there are a couple of people that just like flat out blanked me, which is fine. It happens. And I'm not like the be all end ball.

you've got to get back to me, but I just found it really interesting that that was one of the reports that came out this morning. Is there something to it that is as yet to be determined? But considering one of the issues around all of this is that there's not a plan B, well, maybe this is the plan B. I mean, we've seen outdoor ranks go up pretty quick. At this point, I say to myself, why not? I guess so. Put it over there. we've heard so many different things

and so many different things have gone wrong so many things have been driven into the ditch here that wouldn't surprise me at all what do you make of that and again it is a it is a a French Canadian radio show who went into a little bit of detail on the whole thing and I don't think they just made this thing up

but never thought on that as a potential contingency plan Shana take it outside hockey boy I mean nothing would surprise me at this point, considering how poorly everything has been done so far, is it good to have a contingency plan? Sure, but I have many questions. Like, when was the decision made to make this outdoor ring, right? Like, was it after the planning of the original ring? Did you make sure to get the dimensions right on one and not the other? Hang on. I'm not saying that this is, like, I am not

reporting that this is the plan B. I'm just saying there was a French Canadian radio show this morning that went into some detail about this idea and this then the group that they named Cinderglass this is what they do for living and this is what they this is their business and they do business not just in North America but also in Europe as well that's all just one report but that's where we're at like right now we're at the sort of stage where it's like throw it out there I suppose I mean throw anything out there and see what sticks it would be interesting if anyone would bite on this just as it seems like they don't want any more sites to the Olympics because it's already kind of broken up and there's going to be a lot of travel that's why

the idea of like a backup in Switzerland has kind of been frowned upon but then this one if this one was considered okay it's just all odd everything about it is very odd um I think backup plans are good so extra rinks being constructed never a bad thing um hopefully everyone had the correct blueprints executed them accordingly um but no, I, nothing surprises me at this point because if you can't get the basics of basic rank dimensions, why not? Just make 10 rinks.

Just say fuck it. Just make a bunch of rinks and then have a taste. I'd like a little tester of which one is the least bad. The least bad. Okay, so bracket that for a couple of seconds. Actually, no. Let me get one more thing on that. Given the reality of if they get this thing,

off the ground, okay, if they actually get this plane in the air, given the fact that the rink dimensions will not be actual NHL dimensions, are we making too much, too little, or is this porridge just right for how we're having the discussion about how this affects selection? I think this is something we could see get overthought, for sure. I mean, like, listen, if there is, we get a crumb, we all go wild. That's just what we do. It's our jobs, right? Like, we're paid to talk about this and the players, too.

they're going to be asked about this and it's going to be made into a massive thing. But I also understand why it's going to gain a lot of traction, right? Like, NHLers have not been back to the Olympics since, what, 2010 now, right? 16. Sochi. Oh, okay. Wait, wasn't that 14? World Cup of hockey was 16.

That was 14. Hang on. My brain is broken. 2014, yeah. 2014. Okay. So you haven't been back to the Olympics since 2014. So, like, rightfully so.

the NHL should have a ton of reservations. And I wonder if the next time around that they do this, there's going to be more ironclad language protecting, everything and more. But I just look at it and go, it should be a conversation point because it is different, right? Like this is not the standard. And I think for some players, it might not be as noticeable maybe, especially for players we've played on different size rings before, right? Like if you're already used to adjusting because say when you played in Europe,

you're used to, you know, the larger rank and now you've already had to adjust for. Like, maybe more players are going to be adaptable. Maybe some have only played on one size before. So this could be, you know, a wrench for them. But it will be interesting to see how much this is or isn't going to affect roster building. Because as is, we're having conversations about how much the Olympic roster needs to reflect that of four nations because of the physicality of it and the fighting, even though the rules are going to be different. Yeah. Four nations was NHL rules.

This is IHF. This is totally different. So does that mean Tom Wilson? and Sam Bennett are going to be locks when they weren't before. Like maybe they already were. I don't know. But I think there's a good conversation to have about what kind of hard skill would help you when there's less room out there. Like, I don't know.

I would want Brandon Hagel out there if I'm Team Canada. I think he could be the perfect bottom six player then to have if you need someone who can just create space for themselves and be a pest versus maybe a Bennett who might be more prone to taking penalties in that kind of situation. So, Hegel's an interesting name. Are they going to allow hand passes? If they are, does that mean that, hey, sorry, you know I couldn't. And Brad Marchand, too, are we allowing hand?

I didn't see the double I haven't read the AAF handbook recently. Are we, where are we at on hand passes now? Very much a thing for a couple of team Canada. I'm not even like dipping my tongue in this discourse. It's too much. it but it's the video anything video review like i know once playoff time come like i'm going to be ready to complain about everything i'm going to have all my coaches challenged at at the ready sharp you know i'll help everyone else sharpen their pitchforks but right now it is

early december in the regular season i could not give two shifts about this because my answer is going to be the same as it's going to be in june and it's get some consistency you know make the rules a little bit more black and white i am so tired of like hour long explanations on things that happen in like 0.4 seconds of real time. But here's the thing about it, though. Like you're never going to get consistency because nobody has the same set of eyeballs. Nobody interprets every. The only thing that's that you can look at and say is going to be black and white is

puck over glass. And in some instances, most of them, actually, almost all of them, pretty much all of them, all of them. Offside. That's it. Other than that, like, I'm always a little bit amazed at how people are still not really grasping that penalties are an interpretation of the rulebook in a lot of ways because what's a hook to you is not a hook to me and what's a slash to me is maybe not a slash to you and what a gloved pass is to me is not a glove pass to you it's still going to be an interp goalie

interference can be that as well but the thing is about at least goalie interference like I tend to think that goalie interference is the most consistently correctly called foul that's out there. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. If you want to take... Yes, 100%. 100%. Absolutely it is. The thing about it is, it's just high profile. But take another call. Take a call like slashing. Okay. Go watch hockey tonight. Watch how many slashes aren't called. Do we lose our minds over it? No, we just figure, okay, you're not going to call all of them. Or trips. Or, oh, here's another one. Interference. Go watch how many times. times a defender interferes with F1 when their partner is going to make a retrieval. Right? You can make the argument, oh, they missed it. Oh, they missed it. Oh, they missed it.

Oh, they missed it. Oh, they missed it. The thing about goal interference is it's just high profile. And that's why it seems like it's the one. Oh, no, I understand it. And it involves a goal. And that's why. But it is high profile.

But all I'm saying is when you look at the nature of infractions in the NHL, I think that is the one that is most consistently called correctly. based on the simple formula of if you're in the blue, that's on you. Your liability is sky high. Are they going to get it 100%? No. Not even close. Not even, not, I don't know.

That I disagree with. No, you're wrong. You're wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm mansplaining goalie interference to you. Let me mansplain and goal interference to you, Shana. I do feel it is more consistently called than other infractions, though. I really do. I, okay, I have a tough time with this one in the,

that I think that there's room to get rid of some of the gray area in the rulebook that would allow less interpretation, like still accounting for human element, everybody wants that. That's fine, right? But I think that there can still be a little bit of clarity. It's really tough because in years past, we'd look at playoff numbers too and be like, wow, it's so much worse in the postseason and this was something like I was really focused on last year because there were some really odd choices for challenges.

And sometimes it felt like coaches throwing the kitchen sink in it. And I think that skews the numbers a bit in the playoffs versus the right. regular season, right? Because it's a more desperate situation. You're going to try and whatever sticks. But I do think there's room for improvement on all officiating. And it's easy for me to say from the cheap seats. I understand that. But I think with a lot of things, there's too much gray. And then the NHL says, well, human element. But it's like no matter what, like you said, everyone has different eyes and they're going to call things differently. So limit how much there is to have that consistency. We want efficiency, right? And we are watching tape.

to break down on iPads a quarter of a millimeter. Like, come on. Oh, dude. Then let's get it across the board. That one, that one, that one drives me nuts. Because in, in, in that case, I go back to the origins of the offside and the spirit of the off side, which was close enough is good enough. Close enough to keep you honest is good enough.

No one's, we're not living and dying on, no one's going to watch zone entries, right? I know there's a lot of people that do a lot of, a lot of their work around zone. entries and I don't want to offend them, but we're not going to watch some entries here. Come on. Close. Close enough is, is good enough. But then Matt DeShane had to go horribly upside and we all decided we had to correct it. And now here we are going pixel by pixel through this entire thing. How did we get on this topic when I wanted to nail you down

on Quinn Hughes? How do we start talking about? How do we get from where we wanted to go to Matthew Shane in the game where he went horribly offside? Okay, I'm going to talk to Jeff Patterson about this more at the bottom of the hour. And a lot of it's going to be like cutesy stuff, like how you refer to Tom Fitzgerald as Fitsy. But, you know, the report from Elliot on hockey night on Saturday that there has been a conversation between Vancouver and New Jersey over what this situation is and where both sides are at.

I don't think any of it should come to us as a surprise, but to me, the feeling is, this is like, I'm trying to figure the best way to couch this or frame this. Hansel and Gretel. this is just like breadcrumbs like that's where this is leading it's going to be like a tiny little morsel and then it's going to get gobbled up and then it's going to go away for a while and something else is going to happen someone else is going to say something and then that little breadcrumb is going to get eaten up and then it's it's just like the slowest moving march to an inevitability that we all see coming that we haven't seen in quite

sometime. How do you feel about, because it's not just about what Elliot reported on Saturday. It's the whole dynamic. It's the whole story. Going back to when Jim Rutherford first blurted out about him wanting to play with his brothers. And it hasn't

gone away since. Shana, the floor is yours. Okay, first of all, that comment, the original one, got blown out of proportion because I'm sure a ton of players would want to play with their siblings could not imagine that but sure yes okay especially two of them are playing together

already why wouldn't you want to join the fun by be a trifective huses it's it's something we don't see often how interesting but right now the entire situation is fascinating for a couple reasons first of all players of queen hues caliber do not grow on trees right no matter what return you're going to get for queen hughes i literally don't care what it is unless it's kale mccar or like ass and fuck you're not getting anybody near that caliber you are getting most likely going to get pieces that you were going to hope one day turns into a player of Quinn Hughes's caliber. And that's really hard to do. We have him as an MVP caliber player in player tiers. He is one of 10 players in player tiers to get those honors. He is the second best

defenseman from under Cal McCar. And the gap between Hughes and the next player behind him is smaller than the gap between Quinn Hughes and Cal McCar. Like that's how good he is. And I went through our tiers because I was curious, how did teams get their best players? MVP tier all 10 of those players drafted in tier two you only have two players acquired via trade so it just shows you how hard it is to get those players right it's matthew koshk and adam fox so now the kinnocks are in a bad situation no matter what pay that with the fact that free agency has pretty much already dried up and i feel like player movement's going to be suppressed with some of the changes to the cap rules this year um and how you can retain salary it just is this

perfect storm for all of us to be as dialed in as possible because there's not as much going on now and in the fact that it's Vancouver Canucks who have a tendency to screw up these situations and have a very loud fan base and it is 10,000 times more interesting I love every element of this so you don't want to see there's a lot of people are just like I just want this to end like just do the deal like Nemitz and brat call it like that's it move on we'd all know where this thing is going no you love every single element about this and you want I want it I want it to keep going because when say the Canucks get a home run and they're not going to it very rarely happens right um it's going to be even more

interesting to break down but I just think it's been a boring season I need something to fuel me a little bit more and I also think too there needs to be this is for all the insiders okay okay this is for you Jeff this is for betty Elliott this is for everybody there are tears of interest, I'd like to see talked about a little bit more. When a player of Quinn Hughes's caliber comes on the market, I want every single organization to be kicking the tires on him. And that's going to be a lot different than saying they've had discussions. We need to talk about tiers of interest and tears of pursuing a little bit more to give us more than just this little crumb. Give us like a little pile of crumbs to be like, you know, there's actual

conversations versus like, yeah, they're making calls. Everybody should make calls. but here's the thing though I can't speak for anybody else other than myself I assume that everybody is talking to everybody else all the time because they are right it's not as if like you know Steve Steeos just woke up this morning and said what there's something happening with Quinn Hughes in Vancouver like I like I remember Kelly Rudy when we work together.

This is back in the CBC days. I used to do a show called Hockey Night and Canada Radio on Sirius. And Kelly would come on twice a week. And I asked Kelly something along the lines of, when did it sort of dawn on you that managers are talking about you? He goes, it wasn't until I got to Los Angeles. And I was having a conversation with my goal, with my goaltender.

He was a goaltender with my general manager, Rogi Vashon. And he said, I said, Rogi, like, how often do you like talk about players, Like, how often you talk about me? And he said, every day. He said, what? And he goes, yeah, I talk about everybody on my roster every day to other managers

because I want to know what's out there. I want to know how the marketplace sees all of my players. It's my job to do that. So I can't speak for anybody else. But for me, I sort of proceed with the understanding that we all understand on on every side of this puzzle where we all hold one piece that we assume and know

that managers are talking to managers all the time about everybody. They have to be. That's their job. There are just some things that just make more sense than others. Like because you outline those different tiers and how superstar players are acquired,

that's where I look at the Detroit Red Wings who right now seem stalled. They seem like right now they are spinning their wheels like this the Izer plan here is like right now stalled considering there's no one that's coming on free agent day you mentioned like all the all the impact players are gone is it not incumbent on them to turn some of these green bananas into actual players because they have a lot of prospects and your only way of getting someone that's going to move the needle is to say, pick some prospects,

we need to turn them into players at this point. That's why, and considering the fact that, you know, it's a, you know, the huge household in Michigan as well, that is a trade that would make a whole ton of sense if you're Steve Eiserman. Yeah, totally. And I think it's incumbent on them to do something doesn't even like, it was incumbent on them to do something two years ago.

I feel like we have been waiting for the next step of this process for so long that now it's like that pressure point is peaking to me because i think two years ago you could say well cider and raymond aren't even at their peak values and like you you have a little bit more patience but i look at it now and i i'm going you're getting into this window now for raman cider and larkin and it's not a short window right it's not like these are it's not like cider and raman are 30 years old and it's like okay you got a couple minutes let's go right but you want them to have the best possible chance of winning and the red wings their best possible chances hinge on these three players.

So why not do whatever you can to build a stronger contender around them? So their team that feels like they're poised for just a giant swing. And it's felt like that for a while or multiple big swings, right? Like De Brinket was one swing. Okay, now keep going. Keep amping it up even higher. So yeah, their name makes a lot of sense. A lot of teams in that position makes sense to me that like they're turning the corner.

They need that next push because not every team. is in the perfect position because, and also with Quinn Hughes, you have the extension to consider, right? Like if you're a rebuilding team, he might not have the interest of signing long term there, so you need it that you're in a better position

than the Canucks are. Right. Makes sense. Next time we gather, let's talk about more at Sider, speaking about the Detroit Wide Wings as well. Let's have that conversation. Okay, dismissed.

You've done enough to smarten up the program. Our brains have expanded. We're a lot smarter and a lot kinder because of you. Thank you for having me. Thanks for having me. I'm not against those men that's but new it's me and myself and how this is going to be fixing my mind

I do on the bracket I turned on the music I turned on the music I turned on the music that's turned up, help out and I don't think you're sometimes losing We're wrong In the dead dark night