The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Playoff Race Heats Up ft. Shayna Goldman

Episode Date: March 10, 2026

Jeff Marek is joined by Shayna Goldman on today’s episode of The Sheet to break down the aftermath of the NHL trade deadline and what it all means for the stretch run of the season. The pair dive into which teams actually improved, which clubs may have missed their opportunity, and how the moves—or lack thereof—are shaping an increasingly tight NHL playoff race. Marek and Goldman also explore key storylines emerging around the league, from contenders positioning themselves for the postseason to the analytics behind some of the biggest decisions made at the deadline. Plus, the conversation shifts to the ever-present spotlight in Toronto and the growing discussion about whether there’s simply too much media covering the Maple Leafs. All that and plenty more league-wide insight on another packed episode of The Sheet.#TheSheet #NHL #NHLTradeDeadline #StanleyCupPlayoffs #Hockey #ShaynaGoldman #JeffMarek #NHLPlayoffRace #TorontoMapleLeafs #HockeyTalkLeave a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/TheSheetEmail us: [e-mail] TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Uber Eats: https://www.ubereats.com/caReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@FNBarnBurner🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoffReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, hello there once again. Remember yesterday when I signed off and said, yeah, we weren't going to be doing the show today? Yeah, scratch that. We are off tomorrow as we do a little janitorial work here for the broadcast, off tomorrow back Thursday. But today we got a lot to get into. And we're going to get into that with Shannon Goldman, the Too Many Men podcast and the Athletic as well. A couple of things that we want to do on the program today sort of, you know, along the lines of not necessarily the X's and O's of hockey. but more sort of talking philosophically about some of the issues surrounding hockey, one, namely what Pat Maroon had to say on the Overdrive Show on TSN 1050 in Toronto yesterday,

because there is a point there that I think might be getting lost here in the entire discussion of the pressures of media, big bad media. We're going to get there in a couple of moments. Let's get to what's on the program today. I'm glad to be aboard with you once again. The Blueprint, powered by Fandul, download the app today and play your game. If you can tell that I got a little bit of excitement of my voice today,

it's because, one, I get to talk to Shana, who's going to be joining us here in a couple of moments, as we mentioned, but also after the program is done today, I'm jumping to the Batmobile and going to Buffalo to see the swords and the sharks. We're going to talk about trade deadline aftermath with Shana, get her evaluation on what we saw last. Friday and even a couple of days before and a couple of days afterwards as well. Playoff races heating up, rivalries heating up, and as Zach puts succinctly on our rundown for today, media pressure.

And Zach, I want to get you to hop on this here really quickly. Before we get to Shane and before we get to this clip from Overdrive yesterday, you cover the Maple Leafs on a consistent basis. You know how much media is there and around. I mean, you're around after every game with After Dark, you and your smelling salts and your guests and your super chats and it's all excellence. We're not going to go too deep on it, but I just want to get sort of a top line thought from someone that covers this team on a daily basis. Your thoughts on the idea that there is too much media around for players to feel comfortable and perform at their best. I don't think that there can ever be too much media. in sports in general.

I don't think that that's just hockey or the market of Toronto. I think that the more media, the better. I think the more people that you can have commenting on it, watching it, growing, moving the needle, whatever you want to say about it, I think it's better for the game. In terms of the instance of pressure, and I know you guys will dig into it a lot more, isn't pressure like what you want?

isn't pressure what you're looking for and should have? And it can come in different forms. So that should be something that should be clarified here or made distinct. But the idea of pressure specifically in the instance that Maroon was talking about, and I know you guys will dig into it more, but it's about the pressure that the media puts on them. Well, the pressure that the media is putting on them here in Toronto, in this instance is to be good.

Don't you want to have the pressure of being? good and being a successful competitive team. That's where it kind of gets lost on me a little bit. The idea of, okay, people are bashing us online and there's too much commentary. I completely understand that. And I understand why people don't like that or don't want to have to deal with that. That's fine. If I had a million people commenting after every show that I did being like, look at this idiot.

He didn't try tonight. Yeah, at some point it probably gets a little bit annoying. You do have that. That's social media. We all have that. Yeah, fair, fair. You got to expect someone's going to throw a rock. I get it every day.

That's fair. You get it every day. Everybody gets it every day. But it's like it's part of the job. And it's that, that noise and those people being out there and commenting on it is what allows you to do what you do. And I'm not trying to say that me as a media member, oh, I'm the reason that these guys get to play in the NHL. No, that's not what I'm trying to get at. But it's like, without.

Each piece of the puzzle here, the next piece doesn't get to work. Without the criticisms that follow, whether it's from the fans or from the media or so on, each of these things does not get to live and be as successful and as big and as important as they are. This is kind of what I'm trying to get at. And I think it's just a little bit ridiculous to say, oh, you know, it's so much better to not have any. Really? Because if you don't have any, then do you get to do what you do? I don't know that you do to the same extent.

There's one thing. Like, I do understand how it might be a nuisance. Like, the best way that I've been able to sort of try to sympathize or create an analogy for how, in this example, because it's a hockey show, how hockey players may feel. I always kind of think it's like, from the player's point of view, you don't mind one umpire calling balls and strikes. But when there's 1,000 umpires calling balls and strikes, it might get a little bit annoying. But to that, I say, that's what the money's for. That's what the money's for. Do we have Shana standing by?

sure she's going to have a spicy one on this one. Yes, we do. We've got Shana. All right, here she is, folks. From the bullpen, we're going to the lefty. Shana Goldman from the Too Many Men podcast and the Athletic as well. And by the way, happy belated International Women's Day. Did you like what I sent you for Women's Day?

And we'll throw the picture up here on the podcast as you comment on it. We need your audio hot. We need your audio hot. Nope, not yet. We're going to work on that. So I sent, I sent, Shana, a picture that's. near and dear to both of us for International Women's Day, which he's going to talk about here briefly,

and then we'll mix in with hockey. Coming up, we are going to talk about winners and losers trade deadline. We're going to talk about rivalries. We're going to talk about some of the games this evening. I did mention I'm going to see the swords tonight, facing off against the San Jose Sharks, which will be a lot of fun. We'll talk more about that when I get back come Thursday,

and, you know, playoff races as well. And maybe the idea that is what we're looking at right now, going to be the way the standings end up. Essentially, what I'm asking is, is it done? Is it fixed? You know, one of the other things that's popped up over the past couple of days by way of conversation and we'll get chaned away in on this one as well. The idea, again, it's a common theme.

Managing your roster or massaging your roster to ensure the best draft position come lottery time around the NHL. Like there are a couple of days of the week. I was mentioning this on our trade deadline show on Friday. There's a couple of days of the week where you can profoundly change your team. You can either change it, and that's trade deadline or free agency, or it can get changed for you, and that's lottery night. Now, a couple of ideas about this one, to dissuade teams,

to dissuade teams from quote-unquote tanking or to dissuade teams away from giving themselves an incentive to play poorly down the stretch. We've heard a number of different things, a number of different things brought up and a number of different solutions for it. The one that I keep coming back to is, and I work with me on this, folks, because it's a very, very unpopular take.

Since there's already a salary cap that everybody works under, that is the ultimate authority in roster construction, okay? Since that already exists, If you want to dissuade teams from tanking, to give themselves a beneficial position to come a lottery ball night,

give every single team in the NHL all 32 an equal shot at first overall. You have a cap, you manage it, and maybe part of this entails is getting rid of the rookie salary cap. But to incentivize teams away from tanking because the reason you do it is to try to get a better draft pick and a better lottery position.

Maybe the best way to do it if it really is a problem. And we'll see what happens here with one team specifically, and that's the Florida Panthers defending Stanley Cup champions who have not had a season where they're going to qualify for the postseason. Is maybe a solution to all of this? Just make it available, make the first overall pick available for all 32 teams. You know, I can recall maybe the best example, of this, as far as interest level goes,

was the Sydney Crosby draft, right? The lockout draft, where every team had a shot at getting first overall and Sydney Crosby and it came down to Anaheim and Pittsburgh. And by the way, the white whale, here we go, you want to go down a rabbit hole on this one? So at that draft, okay, I'm sorry, at that, at that lottery,

when it came to revealing who was going to go pick first and who was going to pick second, as it was revealed that it was going to be the Pittsburgh Penguins, selecting first. Bill Wirtz, the old owner of the Chicago Blackhawks. For whatever reason, and I've

looked for an answer, Ron McLean and I when we worked together to hockey night, talked about this a couple of times, and Ron actually brought it up on hockey night in Canada, started screaming justice. Justice, justice, when it was Pittsburgh getting

Sidney Crosby and not the Anahe Ducks. Now, I've had people say to me, no, what he was saying is he just ordered a scotch and he wasn't saying justice. He was saying just ice. What do you want with that? Mr. Words? Just ice. And everyone thought he was saying justice. Ha, ha, ha. But I've never been able to figure out why the late Bill Wards. And he probably took this one at the crematorium was saying justice when the Pittsburgh Penguins won that lottery. Nonetheless, I digress. Is that an idea that we can use to dissuade teams from stripping it down? Because as we've talked about before, you can't get

players to stop competing. You know, I can't stop players to, you can't stop coaches from, from coaching. But what you can do as a manager is put your team in a situation where the odds are they are going to lose by way of how you construct your roster. We can think about what

Tim Murray did to the Buffalo Sabres as they were trying to get Connor McDavid. As a goaltender, you made a save, you were either getting waived or trade it. That's just the way it was. You're not here to make save, son. You're here to make sure that we can get Connor McDavid. Didn't get Connor McDavid, got Jack Eichael, and we know the story there.

And we know what happened to Tim Murray, too. Just some ideas that I throw out there here on this Tuesday afternoon as we stand by for Shana Goldman. Zach, are we any closer to getting Shana on the program? Have we solved the audio issue yet? Do we have her? I see the sheet. Do we have you?

Sheena Goldman? Maybe. Do we have me? Oh, there she is. By the way, dig in the purple. Dig in the purple. That's really good. last time we spoke off air

you were mentioning blue but you've decided to go with the purple now my question still stands it was blue it was blue there was a transition to blue and now we're here it's purple so I can decide I have no idea to do it for this okay what did you make of

and Zach's going to throw the picture up what did you make of my gift to you on International Women's Day I loved it I appreciate it that's our queen the Miss Vicky like who wouldn't love that she's an icon

She created so many chips. Like the pickle chips are number one, but like, don't sleep on the rest. Even the plain sea salts, they're perfection. Yeah, that is the woman that was after and always has been after our hearts. Now she subsequently sold the company to Frito Lay, Pepsi, and et cetera, et cetera. But there is the genius behind the Miss Vicki's chip. New Lowell, by the way, just a little bit, I believe it's a little bit south of Barry. As far as the Miss Vicki's origin, chip origin story goes.

Okay. One thing I want to play for you as we just jump right into this here, Shana, and thanks for joining me as always. So yesterday on Overdrive on 1050 in Toronto, Pat Maroon was the guest. And one of the questions they got into was the pressure of playing in Toronto for the Maple Leafs. Have an eyeball and an earball at this one. Patty, when you say like there's, it's almost like when you said this pressure, do you think think there's any more pressure playing in Toronto than there is for the Tampa Bay Lightning or the St. Louis Blues?

Well, there's not, there's not 25 media people in your room every day. In Tampa, there's four people that walk in your room every day. I think the standards high. How does that affect pressure? Well, I just think the articles and stuff like that and stuff that's out there. At the end of the day, there's pressure everywhere you play. You know, as a professional athlete, you guys lived it. you have pressure every single day to perform and be at your best every single night.

Okay, so a couple of things that I take away from this, and then I'll submit the floor to you. One, the thing that I've always maintained about Toronto specifically is it's the closest thing that the NHL has to the NFL. Like having 25 people in the room after every practice and every game is what 31 other teams want. Now the Rangers get that, the HABs get that. there are some markets that do get that as well. But if you're the NHL, you want 25 people in your room after every time that team hits the ice because it's an indication of there is that much interest. I know it might be annoying for players.

But, you know, I had, you know, one person, one media member that I greatly respect and have for a number of years, you know, send me a note saying, I assure you there are more than 25 people in every NFL locker room after every single person. practice and game. And last time I checked, that was the most successful league in North America in any sport. The other thing that I'll point out, if you're going to complain about that, stop talking about growing the game. Because that comes along with it. I don't want to hear players talk about growing the game because growing the game means that you get increased media attention because there are more people that are interested, more people have skin in it, and more people want to get involved in it.

So to me, you can't have it both ways. You can't go on about, we got it growing the game and growing the game is important and then complain when people have the audacity or the nerve to cover the game because increased media comes along with growing the game. Shannon Goldman, your thoughts? That's a fair point. Yes. If you want to grow the game and you want interest, there's going to be more media in the room. That's, you know, comes with the territory. I'd also say that when you're a professional athlete and you get to play sport for a living, like pressure is a privilege. And we hear this all the time from top athletes all over the world, all over sport, right? Like that is the truth. And if you're going to Toronto, you know what you're paying for, right? Or what you're getting paid for, I should say, right? Like it's going to be a full media room. There's going to be a lot from the organization, from the outside media, from fans. That being said, there's still a decency conversation to have.

And I think that's an important one too of it's easy for us from the cheap seats sometimes, right, to have opinions. And sometimes players have to, you know, be able to roll that off their back and just keep playing and not be bogged down by it. I understand why so many players don't have social media in today's day and age too, because we hear it all the time. Players getting Venmo requests because of betting things. All of that is shit they shouldn't have to deal with.

But there is a decency thing from, you know, the media side too of, doing the job and keeping a level of professionalism without just tearing a person down. And I think that it comes from everything, right? Like if you're a player, you should want more media coverage. Absolutely. If you're a player and you're going to Toronto, you should expect that. That comes with the job. But I don't think that there's anything wrong with having a conversation of here's how we cover the game, right?

And here's how we can do it in a way that works honestly forever. And it's not saying, oh, the players are soft, they can't handle it. It's just sometimes, you know, it does spiral. It does go a little bit far. But if you want hockey to be a popular sport, like this, this is part of it. I can remember the story in San Jose when Joe Thornton got traded from the Boston Bruins to the San Jose sharks. And after his first practice, he came off the ice and asked one of his teammates, like, where is the media? And the answer was, he's over there.

You know, Dave Pollock from the San Jose Mercury News. It wasn't, oh, yeah, they're over there. So, yeah, Dave's over there. He's the one guy. and even Maroon in that clip is talking about, yeah, there's four people that are that are wandering around. Like that to me, even as a player, is sort of an indictment. Like you want 20 people in that room. That's a good indication of a healthy franchise, right?

Like you look at like franchise valuation right now and all of a sudden like everyone's going going crazy. Well, like, oh, look, Maple Leafs are worth $4 billion and the Rangers are worth $4 billion to have, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. what comes along with that. And this is where I always say, this is what the money is for, is more scrutiny. Now, I get that it's easier to exist day to day

when there's only four people covering the Tampa Bay Lightning or Florida Panthers or in Joe Thornton's case, he's over there, go say hi to Dave. But that's kind of an indictment on the NHL. Yeah. That there are markets where there's only four people covering the game. that resonate with you. And it's going to go both ways, right?

Like if there's 20 people covering the game, like, are you going to take more heat, obviously, but also, you know, there might be more reporters that are out there to help get your story out there and to personalize you that more fans are going to like you for who you are or for your game, right? Like, it definitely cuts both ways. And I think, too, like, we see it with players. Like, they might play in Toronto for years and then say you want a different pace. So you go somewhere else, right?

Like maybe you want to go to the ducks or you want to go to the lightning because you don't want to face that pressure every single day. And I get it because you're literally handed like feet to the fire. There you go. If you're in Vancouver, if you're in Edmonton, if you're in Toronto and it does work that way. But yeah, obviously. Like I get it why in the moment, two players would look at it and go like it doesn't feel like, okay, this is growing the game. It's okay, this is making my day to day harder. But it's tough because this is a league that shoots itself in the foot with marketing. so this is a good way to do it. It shouldn't be this way.

It shouldn't be on the media and the fans to promote the game, okay? And this is like my big gripe here that maybe if that wasn't the case and the league did a better job itself, we wouldn't be just looking at that for a temperature check as much because the NHL would be a household name. I mean, it's obviously different in Canada. It's huge. It's a lifestyle, right? Like the NHL here, it's not. I mean, we had an incredible slate on Sunday of games and there was no marketing.

It was Hockey Day in America in the U.S. And there was no marketing for it. That, you know, in years past we've seen more get done for it. That Olympic boost is not taking hold in the NHL. It is in the women's game and you just see the differences of it. So, yeah, it feels like they need the media coverage because that's the only way the game's going to grow. So a few things there. Let me pull a couple of things out.

One, to your point about Sunday and Hockey Day in America, that was the best slate of Sunday hockey games, I've seen all year hands down. Whether it was Colorado, Minnesota, I do want to get your thoughts on Ethan McKin in a second year, whether it was Pittsburgh, Boston, which was another bangor as well. And then, like, the ultimate thunder clap was the Buffalo Sabres in the Tampa Bay Lightning. I mean, there were some of us that were wondering, you know, when the game is going to stop. Like, you know, are the police going to have to come in and call a curfew? Because that thing was going to take absolutely so long.

Let me just pause on Sunday here really quickly. that was the best Sunday we've seen in a long time in the NHL as far as quality of game goes, right? The marketing was not the best marketing that was done for hockey day in America were people on social media saying go watch this game. Turn to the Buffalo Sabres, Tampa Bay Lightning right now. Oh man, Minnesota is facing off against Colorado. This thing is going into overtime. Go there now. The best marketing here, you're right, was done by the fans on Sunday.

and it was all over. And it was a great slate of games. It was perfectly staggered, which we never see. There was a, listen, it's very rare that a Friday and a Sunday could beat a Saturday, and that's the case. And then you look at this weekend, like, even tonight, it's a slate of bangers, and you're not going to be able to watch them all. There's going to be two games tomorrow.

Yesterday's schedule sucked. Too bad. Tough shit. You're not going to be able to watch what you want on Tuesday and Thursday. But no, the fans are the best marketers for the NHL, and that should not be the case. The Tampa Bay Lightning and the Buffalo Sabers are, Buying for first place in the Atlantic Division.

It's the team that's been there before that's battle tested versus this rising team that everyone gets excited about when they're good. Plus, they have a big market themselves, right? Even if you're not going to flex that into national coverage, and I understand why not, because look, Boston Pittsburgh was on. That was a good game and had, you know, playoff implications. I'm not saying change the schedule at all because there was a soft spot in the schedule that everyone could watch that. If you didn't want to watch Red Wings Devils, can't blame me if you don't, but there were playoff implications there. Plus, you know, the Red Wings are a big name, and you could have used that Olympic boost from Larkin, not knowing he was going to be injured for the game. But it's the fans that do the most for this league.

You have fans. Look, the heated rivalry craze comes about and everyone's loving it and talking about it. And social media, it's, you know, on fire there. It's not the league taking and running with it. They're not embracing it. They're not saying, listen, the next Bruins-Canadiens game, we need to. to have Connor Story and Hudson dropping the puck here because fans would have gone absolutely wild for it. It's fans talking about on social media. It was the same thing with that game on Sunday.

The league should have been doing more on Twitter. And I get it. You maybe didn't plan for that, but there could have been more promotion heading into it because their other matchups have been interesting and exciting. And there was so much writing on this game. And then once the game started taking over, there's a way to do it, right? To try to embrace this moment. And instead, it feels like the fans are the one carrying the weight for the NHL once again. This has, by the way, like this is not a secret to the NHL because I go back to 204, 205 and the lockout that ended a season. This is where I'll always applaud two things. One, the fans and two Ted Leonces of the Washington Capitals.

And here's why. First of all, the sport was kept alive online. The sport was kept alive with bloggers and people on social media. in 204, 205. That's where the sport was kept alive while the NHL and Players Association battled in the boardroom about salary caps and trying to get rid of Bob Good now.

The sport itself, like the fans stayed with it because of essentially bloggers. And that's where Ted Leones' AOL comes in. Ted's take, he has a blogger's section, all put aside for the Washington Capitals, blogger media, et cetera. They embraced it. The caps embraced it.

As everyone else punched down on it, right? What's that? As everyone else punched down? And so many other teams, they punched down on it. Yeah, they didn't want bloggers. They're not professionals. It wasn't just like, it wasn't just teams to punch down on it. It was traditional media that punched down on it too.

Like, hang on a second here. Like, and I was, and I've always been, you know, part of, you know, traditional media. Like, we're guilty. My group is guilty of doing this, of punching down at bloggers who had the nerve to keep the sport alive. So the NHL is known for a long time that this whole thing. has been propped up online and at its most sensitive time has always been saved by its fans. Another thing I want to pull out from what you said is the Olympic bump. Hold on your point too with the bloggers.

And this is the thing, not to gas you up, because I'll find a way to knock you down a peg. But this has like separated you from a lot of the traditional media, right? Like I started at Sportsnet and not many people would have been like, okay, great. It was like, here's some nerd crunching numbers. And you're like, okay, here, Besty. And you were finding ways to elevate my work and sharing it. And it goes a long way. And it's something that to this day, we should still see more of, right?

Because people making TikToks about the game and trying to explain it more. Or there's sports girls club and things like that. Or just tweeting about it and putting out content in different ways. It goes a long way, a simple share of, you know, spreading that wealth and using your platform to embrace a different way of talking about hockey, which in the end does benefit you because one, you get pumped up by me in this moment, but two, it just makes the game better. You know my old saying, right? There's no I in team, but there's two eyes and invoice. I'm going to be sending you one for all that help back in the day.

Now that you're established and you're a big shot. Oh, yeah, yeah. Expect to get one there, S. Goldman. Okay, let me get to your point about the Olympics as well, because you're right, like on the women's side of things. First of all, MSG sold that. Like, there is like a, there is a nice cascade from the Olympic gold on the women's side to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, to the H.HL. We're not seeing that on the men's said. There have been great moments. A lot of them have revolved around Jack Hughes specifically, but at least short term. And we'll see what the long term effects are because, you know, miracle on ice happens. The next thing, you know, you get a

generation of, you know, Leclair and Medano and et cetera, Jeremy Rona. and Kachaka, like all these guys. But we haven't seen that. And do you think it's because of everything that happened after the win that distracted away from the momentum of a great hockey moment for the United States? I just pulled the pin out of the grenade and rolled it over to you to do what you like with it. Shana Goldman, yes, I know what I'm doing. I have no thoughts on this one. No, it contributed to the problem.

the thing you look at four nations last year and even if you tried to not focus on the political elements of it and they were a lot at the time obviously between us and canada the games were incredible and it just felt like that wasn't built on enough this is why the n hl i thought i truly thought we're going to step in and be like this is not happening right now like you're coming back to the season celebrating miami have the best time and then get back to work and avoid all of the distractions we've heard so many things in this league are distractions right pride jerseys They're distraction. Celebrating this and that and the other thing.

Distraction. Focus on the game. The game is the best marketing and you don't want to alienate any fans. And they obviously did the opposite of that with this entire situation. So I thought the NHL would have stepped in here to be like, this is not happening. And just let the focus be where it should have been on the Olympic win and what an amazing moment this is, double gold. And it didn't happen. I do think that is part of the reason the women are getting the boost and the men aren't because look at how many people have rallied around the women.

I think also the women having the PWHL and just have a lot of the women. a clear answer of where to watch the game, right? Not to say anything of women's hockey piss because we did have the MWHL and the PHF and the CWHL and the CWHL and the professional women's hockey players association. We had it all, right? So to say, hey, you can go watch at the NCAA level or the PWHL, I think that is a big reason we're seeing that boost here. I think it's also because we're seeing everyone rally together for the women because they didn't need to be punched down on. But it also feels like even with all of that mess, they could have tried to just, just keep the focus on the game.

The game, the thing that they say is the best marketing tool in all of hockey, sit down and watch a hockey game and look how interesting it is. But there were ways, I think, to build on it differently. Here, I think that they could have said, hey, are you new to hockey watching after the NHL? Here's what you need to know. And I think, again, it's the untraditional media

doing a lot of that after the heated rivalry craze, right? You saw what chaos with the Welcome to Hockey Series, and here's what you need to know. For us, too many men, we had the hockey lore draft to talk about all the weird things and get to the drama and the exciting things that are going to help, you know, personalize the sport a little bit. The NHL has never done that because they don't feel that they have to because they market to the fans they have instead of the fans they should be trying to reach.

So after they let this entire circus go on, which was a total distraction from the game itself, I feel like all we're seeing now is like, oh, you want to watch Red Wings, Devils, and they showed a picture of Jack Hughes and Dylan Larkin. That's what you're giving us. That's it? Like, give us nothing, NHL. there's so much more they could do here to talk about how incredible the product was and flow that into the playoffs honestly right because there's going to be matchups like round round one in the playoffs right like

you look around the league and go okay who's playing where and it could be you know let's say we have Vegas against edmonton like use a hook on that of Connor macdavid trying to go further than years past and he's going up against team Canada teammates Mitch marne. or you could go Jack Eichael, Connor McDavid. It writes itself, right? Like the draft history and the U.S. The one is obvious.

And as a Canadian, it's like a dagger in my side to bring it up. But like, here's Jack Eichel with Stanley Cup and his gold medal. And here's Connor McDavid that wants everything Jack Eichael has. Jack Eichael went to two seconds. Two seconds, right? Like, I fumbled at first two seconds on me. If you're doing this for a living and you're an NHL marketer,

you should be thinking of this with your eyes closed. But again, like part of that. too is like, is the league prepared to do the, you know, Connor, Connor wants what Jack has. That is the story. Why not? No, but that is the story.

I don't know that they want. I don't think they want to do that. You know, somehow, you know, Connor is somehow deficient in his career because he hasn't achieved what Jack Eichel has. I don't know that the NHL is at that level. But I tell you, if it's Vegas and Edmonton and given everything that Connor McDavid has gone through this year,

whether it's with, you know, the piece that he had written for him with his authorization, Tribune, however you want to phrase it, to say nothing about what happened in the gold middle game as well through the Olympics about his, you know, premium on winning and looking around and seeing rings and this and the Stanley Cup here and gold medal there and he doesn't have it. That's what everybody's going to be thinking. He wants everything that Jack Eichael has. Listen, I know you didn't watch. I know you didn't watch he did a robbery.

I'm so bad. I got to watch. I know, I know. I keep bringing it up because I'm going to get you to watch it. But like in the show, and I know it's fiction, it's not real life, but you have two top draft picks in Ilya and Shane. And the NHL jumps through hoops to market their rivalry to the point where it explodes out of control. They're doing All-Star games differently to have the two of them going head to head. Right.

So here you have it one and two in the draft. You could be using this for 10 years here. And now that Jack Eichols in the West, I mean, we saw their playoff series last year and it would get mentioned here or there. but just add some fuel to it, right? Like no one's saying, say, oh my God, they hate each other. But like, I think a lot of us can see the difference between like a marketing push versus two players just despising each other. Right? Like, this isn't true Doughty Matthew Kachuk.

And we know they hate each other from the years of Calgary and L.A. going head to head and things like that. Like, but there's a way to lean into this a lot more than they do. And you could easily look around the playoff picture and find a hundred other ways to do it. Right? because like there's players with drive connections, there's former teammates, there's rivals who knew each other from past teams and playing in the same division. And then, you know, you have the international element. The international element is back and it's huge. Why not lead into that more, right? You saw everything last year with the group chats of Matthew Kuchuk and Brandon Hagle.

I would have wanted to see that marketed a lot more heading into Panthers Lightning, which a series we know that they absolutely despise each other. It might be too small markets, but there are ways to connected to a larger audience. So let me give you an example. Let me just go through this so I'm not misrepresenting anybody here. You watched that Buffalo Tampa game, right? No. You missed it?

No, of course I didn't fucking miss it. Okay, all right. I'm like, what? Sheena. Okay, Mary, I looked at the schedule and was like, this is going to be the potential game of the day. I thought Vegas, Edmonton was going to end up being the number one, but I'm like, this is going to be a close second.

Okay, well, I'll get the hook out of my mouth, and I'm just going through like at NHL.com. Okay, so first of all, if you were doing Game Story for Buffalo Tampa on Sunday after that, what would your game story revolve around? Okay. If I'm a neutral writer, I'm not for one team or the other. Correct. My story would be about Rasmus Dahlene and what the hell he's doing to piss off the world. That would have been my story because Brandon Hagle went after.

him. Evgeny Malkin just got suspended. We've seen seasons past him. They're a ratis. In the game as well. I'm focusing in on Rasmus Dahlian, this elite defenseman who we don't know enough about what is he doing. And I am trying to get as many quotes as I can about what he does to infuriate opponents.

And I want to hear it from the game perspective of what he does on the ice to all of the bullshit around it. That's my story. Yeah. And that game specifically, a big part of it outside of the 8-7 score. Like that game had everything. everything except goal tending. We had everything in that game except to save.

And that's awesome, right? It was an 8-7 final because it was ripped out of the pages of 1987. That's what that game was. It was awesome. And a huge part of it was all the fights. But if you go to the game story from that on NHL.com, you don't know about Hegel jumping Rasmus Dahlene. You don't know about Rasmus Dahlian.

pulled out of a scrum by Darren Radish. You don't know about Sam Carrick and Scott Sabrin. You don't know about any of these things. You don't know about Kesselring and Sernak. And that goes back to Dominic James and Kesselring falling on him. And now Dominic James is out for the season. And that's why Sernak called them out twice. Once at the end of the first period, once at the beginning of the second period.

And that's how they started off frame two with a fight off the opening face off. That's nowhere. Well, I think it's tough for if you're working for the league They don't want the fights being the focus And I understand that because you're not trying to promote it But everyone looks at it and says We all saw this game We all know

It should be that this game had literally everything But goal-tending like you said everything You want to go back and watch a hockey game And have a good time clear a couple of extra minutes And you would normally have to because this one was long And just the chaos, the momentum swings There's so many ways to look about To look at this and how we

saw the five on five or special teams battle there was you could come up with 10 different storylines in one go and literally say this game had everything and here's why and then promote the fact that they're going to play again on april 6th that should be everywhere and you should be tracking these two teams along the way going as they go head to head for first place in the atlantic here's what you need to know between now and that happening i get this as there's a sensitivity because we're dealing with a very violent sport where some horrible things have happened and they've ended up in court. So I do want to recognize that I understand some of the sensitivity around here

about promoting violence. At the same time, this is hockey, and we all saw that game. And everyone is going to circle April the 6th. It's kind of like that Pittsburgh Boston game with Matt Cook, and everyone knew that he was going to answer the bell. And there were wanted posters out for Matt Cook. The NHL was not going to embrace it. As a matter of fact, they went out of their way to warn both teams not to do anything.

Part of that is legitimate. The other part is they cover themselves legally to make sure that they can be able to stand up in court and say, we told these guys not to do this. But again, to your previous point, you know who's doing the marketing for that game? Good fans. All the fans are doing all the marketing for it. Yeah. Babe, wake up.

There's a new heated rivalry in the Atlantic Division. If the NHL tweeted that out right now, right, and gave you a quick gist of that game, give me the condensed highlight. Even if you don't show every fight, show the momentum swings, show the goals. Because the goals were great, right? Like back and forth.

Goals were awesome. Show a little bit of everything. You can condense it into five minutes and literally just post that clip with a caption like that, marketing. You don't have to do much. The game speaks for itself. Then find a hook that's going to bring in different fans.

Right? Like playoff something that's super popular right now. Try to market to the younger fans because that's who you should be looking for. You look at how baseball has reinvented itself to younger fans and become more interesting. This is your moment. A simple tweet would go a long way or an Instagram post. So good. The way they have sped the game up.

So now I do like in the playoffs, I do like the drama of an at bat taking a long time. Yes. key. That, but 162 games. Like, let's, let's move things along here. As for hockey. So tonight I'm going to the Buffalo Sabres San Jose game. Like after the game here, I'm jumping in the car.

I'm driving down the QAW. So I'm going to go watch this one. Where are you at on both of these two teams tonight? Like, I was making the point yesterday with Wish that, you know, Anthony Stewart's dad has the saying, are you a club or are you a team? and it seemed like Sunday the Buffalo Sabres became a team. That was that moment where if they do anything in the playoffs, we're going to look back,

much like we looked back in 2011, that Boston Dallas game on the fourth before the Super Bowl. And we went, that was the moment they became a team. And then they won the Stanley Cup a few months later. I'm not saying the Buffalo Sabers was going to win the Stanley Cup. But it did very much feel like, because we're not that far removed from every Buffalo Sabre on the ice doing elevator, practice when Stefan Nason took a run at Tage Thompson.

And no one did anything. It was the opposite on Sunday. Like you look at that and you say like that it, Oka Pekyll Luka-Luca and is charging at Braddon Hagle. The goal is charging at Hagle. Like all of it screamed, this is becoming a team now. Where are you out on Buffalo,

Shana and where are you out on San Jose right now before this matchup tonight? I mean, I would say they've been becoming a team for a little longer than that. Honestly, you look at their rise up the standings and how they've been. controlling play a lot more. But something that stood out to me in that game was Tampa Bay knows how to rattle their opponent, right? Like, if you're going to talk about two teams that are elite at it, it is Florida and Tampa Bay

to me. Yes. And when Tampa started storming back and they were really good at five on five in that second period. And you saw the first goal is a power play goal. The next four, I think we're all five on five while the sabers were pretty much all special teams at that point in the game. Yeah.

Was can they get under their skin and derail the savers? And it felt like for a moment they had. But credit to the Sabres for calming themselves down enough to just swing the momentum back in their favor, right? They kept playing their game. And I think that's what's so important here. That's where I was like, okay, this team has even more juice than I think we've been seeing because this is now a different part of it. I think we've seen it building all this time. I think about that game against Vegas, they were up 3-0.

Vegas comes back, makes it 3-2, and they're able to hold it down enough to take the regulation win. So I think here it's like you're just seeing these building blocks and these stepping stones. For the sharks, they're one of the most fun teams in the league. Like, to me, if I'm looking at the slate and looking at what I want to watch, I want to see what the Sabres, the Canadians, the sharks, and the Oilers are doing probably more than anybody else. They're the most interesting teams to me. Love the central division.

Love everything that's going on there. But just for like a chaos perspective, like those are the four teams I look at. And the sharks, you never know what you're going to get from the goaltending, right? Because there's been a lot of highs and lows this year. Yeah. You know you're going to get something incredible from Macklin Celebrini. And now Will Smith and him are back. together and they look amazing.

Their steps behind the Sabres, their process has also gone a little more smooth than the Sabres. I think that they were kind of nailing the whole rebuild thing, keeping the vibes up, knowing which veterans to bring in and went to send them out, had a leverage cap space, and everything like that. But it's

like a reminder of like, hey, that's the next step. You're here. You're further along than anyone expected, right? Because here they are still in the playoff picture. Very impressive to be doing it this early in the rebuild. But it's like, you're going to look at the future of this team and you're going to say you're going to want it that you have this moment where everyone goes, oh, wow, they're turning the corner. And the sharks aren't there yet.

And the savers aren't the perfect model for it. But it's just like that moment to remember, like, you will get there soon. So I was having a conversation yesterday with someone from an NHL team whose job is to analyze things. And this person was making the point to me that, you know, San Jose, to your point, isn't there yet. but the structure that Rossovsky has this team playing on and with is better than because everyone's crazy about the Anaheim ducks right now

I get it and I understand like Cutter-Gotry is going to score 40 goals and no one's going to notice but like he said the structure is better than a team like Anaheim's but they just don't have the personnel yet but when they get there it's going to be really special

he said like if you took like that structure and of course with Mackle and Celebrini and put like some of those players from Anaheim on San Jose, it's a killer team because the structure is just better. Just better, full stop. Yeah. They just don't have the talent.

100%. Yeah. I mean, look, the ducks, when Do Stahl got hurt and came back, he came back to a lineup where, like, he wasn't responding well to his workload in terms of like, you go just by the numbers by expected goals. I remember looking at it like, okay, so it's just on cold tending. So I went back and watched every goal against.

I was like, I got to figure it out because I feel like it's not just on him. Or what's he doing wrong? Is he overplaying it? And I'm just missing something. And within two seconds, I'm like, this is not a goal. goaltending issue. This is a defensive issue. And it's something that obviously some of the gaps in what public information we have because we don't have the perfect proxies for pre-shot movement and for passing. But, you know, then you can go through like all three zones tracking and watch the game and

connect the dots a bit there. But that defense is terrible. Like that defense is not it. At five-on-five, it is absolutely not it. So yes, they can outscore their problems. Yes, they have an incredible goalie, but the structure, you're right. It's not there. For the sharks, it's a young team playing that, too. you have veterans who, you know, would be what? Someone like Orloff or Klingberg, they're five or six is on a contender. Like, they're not supposed to be number ones. And then the young guys outside of Celebrini haven't taken that leap yet, right? And there's a really good story if you go back.

Sean and Dom did on the athletic months ago. It was about like the leap. And it's when a player's physical traits catch up to that elite skill set and ceiling. And there's like Celebrini, like Leo Carlson, they're taking it sooner than, you know, the average player does. So when the rest of that shark's roster takes that leap, which will happen in the next couple years, if they keep up at this rate, you know, it's going to make for such a special team. So getting that foundation in place is huge. And it's different from, say, a team like the Blackhawks where there's been a lot more coaching turnover throughout the rebuild. And it felt like they were spinning their wheels a little bit more than what the sharks are putting in from day one.

The other thing that I want to mention was San Jose, I don't want to ask you about about Buffalo quickly and then we'll let you get on with your day with your purple hair. Um, Mario Ferraro has been their best defense, true or false. I think that they've done a better job limiting his workload this year because I think he's been thrown to the fire a little bit too much.

But I'm a hit or miss on that one. He's someone I'm really, I want to see get that like glow up on a contender. And I understand like why the sharks have like kept him there because as they get better And as they get better options to take on big minutes, it's going to lighten his load even more, right? Instead of him playing a ridiculous amount of like defensive zone starts and top competition. So I think that they're already like doing a better job, lightening that up.

But he's someone like, I keep thinking of like a Hampus Linholm of what happened to him in Anaheim. And it was like, is he cooked? Is it just the system's really bad and the team's really bad? And after a certain point, like, you just can't withstand that forever. It's going to weigh on you. And then it goes to Boston. And you're like, oh, yeah, that's the really good defenseman. we all remember, you know, peaking a couple of years ago and it's like he's back.

So I do wonder if that could happen with Ferraro, but I also think at this point, if the sharks can keep building up and finding players to fill, you know, important roles, I think he'll be fine too. You're the best. You're awesome. Happy belated International Women's Day. Thank you. Vicki Kerr, patron saint of Dill, has given us lots of great chips that we've

exchange. So thank you for that, Vicki. What's the rest of your day looking like? Um, you know, this is like a later day. A day of Shana. What's a day of Shana? What's a day of Shana? Well, it depends. And you show that you're like,

you're like, okay, so she goes back into her cave and like, what does she do? No, today is going to be a little bit different. Um, today, it's like, it's a beautiful day out. I don't have a ton to do. So, uh, when we have days where there's like 14 games on and I know like that's my night and I'm not moving. I try. Like, if I don't have to write until 6 o'clock, like, I need a little space between hockey

all day and then that at night. So it's a beautiful day. I'm going to go watch the Tottenham game in the yard with the dogs. I'm very excited for that. But the normal day, I mean, I do this thing where I write in the morning now, which I have never done before, but I've been like getting up the night. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You?

Yeah. Who are you now? I don't know. I don't know. I don't like it. I stay uprighting. I usually try to stop by like one. And then come back to it in the morning and finish it up and polish it off.

And I still take every second I have on it. But like I don't stay up till six and then wake up at 11 like a train wrecked doing that anymore. That's the yeah. I know. I've grown up. The playoffs, that's still going to be me in the playoffs, honestly. But like, no, I mean, I work on stuff all day and then I try to take a little bit of a break. So I can just like watch and I try.

If I can, I don't like to write during games because it's hard to keep up, especially because it's like a lot of things at once. And then games I miss. I go back in the morning. I watch condensed replays. If it's a good enough game, I will go back and watch the whole thing. I'll skim through the numbers from the games

to try to pick out what I want to watch and things like that to make sure I'm caught up on anything I could have missed because the NHL loves to schedule all of the games at the same time so no one can watch anything. It's because it's a butts in the seats league. Like that's still it. Like the gate still drives it. I know.

Like listen, as someone who does this, like I do that I'm the same as you. Like I say every night is the same. I watch hockey games nonstop. Like I'm the same as you. And I always have to catch myself because I'm like, Oh, they stagger these things. I keep relying on myself. Well, see, even if you don't want to go 7.30, yeah, even if you don't want to go 730 on a weekday, and I understand that on a Friday night or Saturday Sunday, I think that there's no excuse for it.

But on a weekday, then don't. But maybe don't give us a two-day, two-game Wednesday, a four-game Monday. Like, that traditional league structure is 11 games on a Tuesday, and then it's three games on a Wednesday. So then it's like, look, here we have the frozen frenzy. That's not a big deal to me when there's 15 games on a Thursday regularly. They want to protect their nationals. I get it. And nobody wants to plan.

Okay. So what about Friday? Nobody wants a game. They don't want to compete with high school football. They don't. That's a them problem. So you choose Saturday to be the stack day when you're competing against college football. It doesn't make sense.

You know, I get it. It's like don't compete with the NFL. Okay. So you're not going to do that. But on Thursdays, you're still competing with Thursday night football. There's like at the beginning of the NHL season, they don't want to compete with MLB. Mondays, nobody wants to do anything. anything because nobody wants to go to a game.

Like Monday's like complete dead zone. That's why that's always light. Remember Doug McLean when he ran the bluejackers said always like, we will never program against high school football. It's so massive here. College dominates Saturdays, as we all know. And no one's touching Sunday night. No one wants to come close to Sunday.

Yeah, but the NHH still loads up a Saturday against it. They're like, it's fine. And even when the NFL playoffs are on and you have those afternoon games on a Saturday and Saturday night, you don't change the schedule for that either. They go up against it every week. So it's like if you're fine going up, against college football, then go against more. If you want to keep Wednesday lighter because that's your national day and you have one light

day, so be it. But Fridays, there's no excuse. Sunday when the football season ends, you know, we see them load up the schedule more, but this is not it. This is not it, but you are very much it. And you always spend way too much time with me than you bargain. And for that, I thank you, thank you, thank you, Shana Goldman. You'd be good, my friend.

Thanks for having me. There she is the great Shannon Goldman from the Too Many Men podcast and the athletic who is smarter than you and maybe smarter than me and maybe smarter than you too, I'm guessing. Zach, there was a lot to pull out there from what Chana said and she says it a lot more eloquently than either you or I can. Anything jump out at you from Ms. Goldman. Yeah, the whole marketing of the sport is obviously very interesting. There's a lot that she went over in that and I think that there's a lot that gets missed. Fans do so much of it. There's so much of it.

There's so much heavy lifting that's done by the people that's watching. watching and in a way it's good to know that the people who are watching your game are so invested that they're willing to not intentionally promote necessarily but they're they're willing to go and engage which helps grow it but it's kind of a shame that the n hl doesn't do enough on their own to promote it one thing i also wanted to just kind of pick out and i know that you brought up the whole legal side of it in a sense the surface level legal side of the physicality of the sport Yep. I get it.

But I think that there should be a way for the NHL to embrace it and market it a whole lot better. Like, I'm not going to dig into all of it again, but what was the biggest event that we've had in the last? 4-65 plus 4 nations in the fights. What's one of the fastest growing sports in North America and worldwide right now? UFC. You know, they're looking at 8 to 10 to 12% growth, whether it's revenue or fans or whatever. whatever, year over year over year. That is a sport that is like, Jeff, you can't get a sport that is more directed at violence.

They literally are like, look how bloody this dude is. Don't you want to watch this? Like, look at this guy's nose that's broken. Isn't this what you want to see? That's all that that sport is promoting. And football. It resonates with people because it's the physicality of it. And then I understand promoting the speed and the skill of the NHL.

and I think that's something they should be doing, but it's part of it. It's not the whole thing. You know, you've got to lean into the physicality. If they did a better job, because you're right, I looked at the promotion of the game on Saturday night, sorry, of Tampa and Buffalo, and everything that the NHL puts out is like, here's the eight goals by Buffalo, here's the goals by Tampa.

Everything that the other social media platforms put out is like, look at the broad. And it's similar to what happened in the Columbus game. I think it was against Utah that they played. And the clips that I saw coming out, had I not actually watched the game myself, the only thing I would have seen from the Utah Columbus game is the brawls and the list that was read off by the official who had to go up there with a pen and a paper to tell you how many penalties there were. If I didn't turn on the game myself, because I'm lucky enough that, like I get to cover this and watch it,

I would have just been a casual who would have only known that those were out there. And guess who posted that? Not the NHL. Again, social platforms that put those things out. There is always a concern from the NHL office about being in a courtroom and being accused of embracing violence and what that means for the athletes who play their sport. Now, one of the thing, I can recall this like it was yesterday. It was an Islanders Flyers game from I can't remember at some point in the 70s.

I might be right before the Islander's dynasty. It might be at the very beginning of it. And it was an interview with Dave Schultz. They know they'd throw like a clip in from someone going to the rink. and Dave Schultz, the hammer, 472 paneling minutes, NHL record, Dave Schultz going to the rake and they show this as part of the pregame, the hype for the game, he had shaved his head, right?

Not ball, but took it right down to the nub pretty much. And part of the opening montage for it was part of this interview, they said, like, Dave, why did you cut all your hair off? And he goes, this is my Gary Howitt haircut, so he can't pull my hair again when we fight. how far as it's essentially him and Harry are going to fight and he ain't first of all who's pulling hair in a fight

well guys used to do that on a consistent basis in the 70s and helmets put an end of that essentially is what happened with hair pulling helmets took it away but there was you know these two teams and the NHL using that as a way to get people to watch the game

very simple these two guys are going to fight do you want to watch yeah oh there's hockey and I think that should be a little bit more a part of it The other thing, this is a separate issue, but it's been something that I was thinking about more recently. I don't know how this works, and I don't want to disrupt the flow of a normal broadcast too much necessarily, but hockey is a fast, complex sport that even sometimes the people who know the rules, myself included, have no idea what the fuck is going on. You know, sometimes like, goaltender interference challenge, and I'm sitting there with my girlfriend who's new to hockey and she's,

She's like, is this going to be goalie interference? I'm like, you tell me. Like, you've got as good of a guess as I do. You give her the saying? Yes, I do. Okay, good. I do. But sometimes, Jeff, that doesn't even apply.

In the blue. Sometimes it doesn't apply. It can change. And now, I understand the nuances of it so I can understand, hey, this is why this didn't happen in the situation. But the rules, the pace of the game are complex. Again, I'm not trying to overcomplicate a broadcast or, like, do a hockey 101. but I wish sometimes there was an easier entry point for people who are new to the game.

We turned it on. Okay, pet peeve time. This is going to sound harsh. Okay. You know what I hate? What? I shouldn't say it. You know what I can't stand?

When I hear a broadcaster doing the games, and we'll mention goalie interference, when I hear a broadcaster say, I don't even know what goalie interference is anymore. You know what I say to myself? Then you shouldn't be doing this job because it is as easy as picking up the phone and making a couple of calls to either Stephen Walkham or anyone in the officiating world. When I hear an analyst say, I don't even know what goalie interference is anymore. What even is goalie interference? I say to myself, you shouldn't be doing this job. And I don't see that lightly.

Can you imagine? Can you imagine saying that about anything else in the game? I don't even know what that is. It's your freaking job to tell us what that is. That is exactly your job. But analysts get a free pass. And you'll probably hear it tonight with a million games. And you'll probably, I don't even know what goalie interference.

And it's almost like a source of pride that they'll get when they say. say it. I don't even know, like smugly looking down on officials. I don't even know what goalie interference is. Have you picked up the phone? Have you talked to anybody? Have you watched any of the training videos that are available at NHL. Have you tried to educate yourself about what goal tender interference is? Because I'll tell you, when there are goalie interference challenges, you know already hear a whole lot of on NHL broadcasts? I don't know which way this is going to go, as opposed to presenting, well, here is the way that it's called.

And here's what you have to look for. That would be doing your job as an analyst. I don't ever want to hear, I don't know what goalie interference is. Can you imagine? I don't even know what high sticking is either. I don't know what a hook is. I don't know what tripping is anymore in this league.

What is roughing anyhow? Could you imagine them saying that? But somehow, with goalie interference, and they wear it as a badge, like they're proud to be ignorant about it. I look at that and say, that's your job. It's your job doing this game. And by now, goalie interference and the controversies around it ain't sneaking up on anybody.

You've had enough of the controversies about goalie interference. It's your job to pick up the phone and call people and educate yourself on how this rule is called. Does that make sense to you? Because I freaking can't stand it. Like literally, that is your job. Tell me what is happening here. not claim ignorance and be proud of it. Now you may argue with the call, like, oh, I don't think that should have been goal interference,

but base it on something. And don't just base it on, I don't even know what goal interference is anymore. So you know who I think does a really good job of it. So I understand what you're saying. And I get the frustration that you're explaining there on this one. Who I think does a really good job of it and where I could kind of see this getting out to other people? You know why? Because it hurts the game.

It hurts the game. It makes it seem like to according to your point to newer fans that join the game. Here's something that nobody understands and it's just stupid. Why should I invest myself in this thing? If all the calls are just random. Sorry, go ahead. No, I understand what you're saying. I do understand what you're saying.

And what I think I'm trying to get at and what I was even saying when I was using the example of sitting there with my girlfriend, she asked me and I'm saying, I don't know. More so comes from, I will watch. watch a game and the guy who I think does the best job of it. And there might be other people out there and maybe I just don't see it as or hear it as much. But Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson will tell you. He does the work.

Mike does the work. He's the worst of the work. He's part of the work. But what will happen with Mike where I think this is where it gets to the frustrating point for me and not frustration with Mike is Mike will say, based on my understanding, this is goalie interference. I don't know how this will count. and the officials will come back out and they'll say,

your favorite line, we have a good goal. And then Mike says, I don't get it. And I think that's where it gets confusing. Yeah, and that's fine. But again, and this is what I'll come back to, at the end of it still,

over the glass is black and white. Everything else is in interpretation. A trip to you is not a trip to me. A hook to me is not a trip to you. I stick to you. Yeah, I think. someone else. I think that some of those other ones, though, are a little more gray.

The goaltender interference at times feels like it's mud. No, because no, it is not gray. It feels like it's mud. You know where it's gray? It's gray where with the idea of did the goaltender have enough time to reset. And this gets me back to another thing. I said, I kept pissed. I trust me, I'm in a good mood today.

Like, you know who I'm going to talk to later on this afternoon. You know why I'm in a good mood. And I'm going to watch a game in Buffalo Nags, see, sabres, and San Jose sharks. But when it comes to goalies getting to, do they have enough time to reset themselves?

That's where it gets great and that's where it becomes an interpretation. And that's where I still do think, and there will be bucking from the NHL on this, there will be bucking from the officials on this. That's where I think for the next sort of round of give fans a peek into how this thing gets made. Video and audio on the official's conversation around calls to the war room.

Yeah. Yeah. That one, I think, would provide a lot of clarity for people, even if they... People would love it. Even if they don't agree. Even if they don't agree. Yes. You want to talk about like doing something so good to your sport, even knowing that it's going to fuel controversy.

Well, first of all, if it does feel controversy, that's great. And even if you're offended by it, it doesn't matter. Or if you disagree with it, it doesn't matter. It becomes another sort of layer in the conversation. And even if you absolutely can't stand the call, it's the Howard Stern philosophy. People that loved him would listen 20 minutes a day. People that hate it, and we'll listen 30. So even if you hate the call, right?

As long as you're not apathetic about any of it, it makes you a fan longer. I know the officials don't want people peeking in other conversations. I know the NHL doesn't want it either. You know what they'll have to avoid. Whoever's going to be the next commissioner. Go for it. Oh, I know. Okay.

Sorry, go ahead. They got it. It's just the first one where the guy goes in there and he goes, I really jobbed him on one earlier. I think I know on this one, it's got to come back. Social media will be on that. Just a mess. And then they're going to go, mics are gone.

Mikes are done. Yep. Not wrong. Yeah. But I don't think once you know the mics are hot, generally. Yes, that won't be said. I think that that wouldn't be said. All right.

Like, find me one fan that would say like, yeah, I don't want to see that. Find me one fan. Find me one. Okay. The sheet is powered by Fan Duel. and angst about goal interference. Play your game with Fanduel. It's the NHL season and Fandul is your home for all the action on the ice.

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to speak to an advisor free of charge. Zach. I'm going to get the pleasure tonight. Tonight of watching another Maple Leafs game, and I get to watch them face off against the Montreal Canadians here tonight. Now, over the last couple of days, I've seen all these news and rumors and reports coming out about this team. Jeff, as you know, and everyone else, the media. I'm a huge Maple Leafs fan.

That is one thing that everyone has come to know about me. And I wish, Jeff, that I could just turn on the game and sit down and enjoy it. But unfortunately, that's not being the case. So I hope that this summer we can get things back on track because at the end of the day, I Riley wish they would stop pushing me to the brink. Morgan Riley, Matthew Wood, Bobby Brink. wish they would, not W-O-L-D, would stop pushing me to the Bobby Brink. $5 wins you $1,123 and $60 if these three pull off the impossible

and all score on the same night. But that's why you could win over a grand. Look at Uncle Zach. Look at Uncle Zach. Just trying to put some money in your jeans. Out of way. Morgan Riley, Matthew Wood, and Bobby Brink. Great stuff.

Okay, so again, for reels, we mean it at this time. Like, we're gone tomorrow. You're moving into your new place. So does that mean we don't get to see the right shot lacrosse player over your right shoulder? That's correct. Take it in. Look at that. This is the last time here with this background.

So, yes, this is the last one. You want to see. You can't bring that to your new pad and make it part of your background here. What team is that, by the way, Zacharoo? That is the Barry Bombers. You want to see? Look at the shoes. I've got on here.

Yellow laces, look at you. Look at those. Yeah, look at that. Are those warrior gloves? What gloves are those? Yeah, those are warrior gloves. But I would rip the, I would rip the cuff off of them

so that they would have more flex in my wrists. Yeah, how are the chops? Which is probably a dumb thing to do, but... Is that a Markham Waxter's helmet? No, this is a bombers. It's a, it's a, It's a Bauer helmet that the teams gave us.

Number 23, eh? There you go. Yeah, I... Who do you think you are. Join the team late. Join the team late. Didn't want to play a new market. It was a bit of a gong show, so I said,

I'm going to go to Perry and join the team late. And there was three numbers left. I think it was 23, two, and 11 or something. And I was like, I'll get with 23. Michael Jordan. Yeah, go with my...

Michael Jordan. Yeah, look at you, no pressure. Yeah. Here comes to scrub. It's always funny. Pressure. Pressure is a privilege. When the scrub on the team has like 97 or 34.

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Yeah. Is there, by the way, is there a number in lacrosse that everybody frowns upon you wearing? Like when you see anyone in minor slash youth hockey wear 99, you know, I was like, all right, easy, buddy. Easy buddy. Is there an equivalent? in lacrosse or is that's exclusive to hockey there's not it not really no it doesn't really

care the same way you know i played with guys who were number 99 and they would just get the flack of wayne gretsky so just get propped back to hockey so there's not really like a lacrosse equivalent even in lacrosse if you were 99 well wayne did play lacrosse yeah i think a lot of it was that he played and a lot of it is just it's mostly Canadian kids right there's a huge huge crossover between hockey and lacrosse here, especially in Ontario and Canada. So I think you'd get guys in games and they run by the bench and it's just like, all right, Wayne, all right, Wayne, calm down. Right, Wainer.

Pick an autograph. I got a stick after Wainer. Yeah, there wasn't really a player that I could think of in lacrosse that would get that kind of. The other, actually, the one guy, too, that actually ended up carrying over at the end of my time. And I don't know how well people know, but Paul Rable, he also won. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that would get blended in there.

Sick skills, man. Yeah, his shot was insane. His shot was insane. He's doing great things for lacrosse, too. He's the one who started the PLL and kind of got these guys a position here where they can play lacrosse professionally and make money from it. So he's done a pretty good job starting up to PLL, something I watch a lot. All right.

On that, we'll wrap it up. Again, off tomorrow. on Thursday. And by the way, I think I just got a note about this one. Hang on. Stay tuned. Okay, I think so.

Okay, we're going to, okay, we're looking to get someone pretty big here. Coming up for Friday. So stay tuned for that one, folks. In the meantime, thanks to the great Shana Goldman for stopping by. Reader at the Athletic, listen to her on the Too Many Men podcast. She's the best, like, honestly, like Shana is, I can't say enough things about Shannon Goldman and how highly thought of she is not just by me, but anyone who's either read or listened to her work worked alongside her

or just been in her orbit. That's how highly, I think about Shannon Goldman. I hope that comes across. Thanks to you for watching. Thanks to you for listening. Thanks to you for being in the chat if you are. Listening on your favorite podcast platform, audio is my first love, watching us here on YouTube.

If you have already subscribed the channel, we thank you. If you haven't, if you haven't yet, please consider doing so. We'll talk to you in two days. Wyshinsky returns for that one. Do we have Lappi on that show, by the way, on Thursday? Yes, we do. All right, Max Lapp here. Coming up on that program and then stay tuned for what could be a pretty packed Friday show.

So plans are in the works. In the meantime, I'll off to see the swords and the sharks tonight in Buffalo. We'll talk to you again here on the sheet on Thursday.