The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Quinn Hughes’ Wild Future Remains Uncertain ft. Joe Smith & Evan Gold

Episode Date: September 1, 2026

Jeff Marek is joined by Joe Smith of The Athletic to break down the latest surrounding Quinn Hughes and the Minnesota Wild following Bill Guerin’s recent comments about the superstar defenceman’s future. They discuss where things stand between Hughes and the Wild, Guerin acknowledging that the team can’t force Hughes to sign a contract, what Hughes may be looking for, whether he ultimately wants to remain in Minnesota, and what could happen if the Wild are eventually forced to explore a trade — including the possibility of Hughes wanting to play alongside his brothers.Later, Jeff sits down with Evan Gold, the new Assistant General Manager of the New York Islanders and General Manager of their AHL affiliate in Hamilton, to discuss his journey through professional hockey, joining the Islanders organization, his approach to player development and roster construction, his new role in Hamilton, his outlook on the Islanders, and much more.#NHL #MinnesotaWild #QuinnHughes #NYIslanders #TheSheet #JeffMarek #HockeyReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Minnesota Wild and the New York Islanders. That's what we're talking about today amongst other issues. Welcome once again to the sheet for this Tuesday, September the first. Glad to have you along today, whether you're watching live, listening on your favorite podcast platform or in the chats. We thank you for your attention and participation in today's program. And we have a lot to get to. At the bottom of the hour, Evan Gold is going to stop by assistant general manager of the New York Islanders and general manager of the Hamilton Hammers.

great name. He'll stop by. His name was in a lot of whisper circles, as we like to call it, over the summer, attached to a couple of different teams and was employed by the Boston Bruins now, of course, with the New York Islanders. Talk about his journey.

I've got some questions about the 19-year-old rule in the American Hockey League. Maybe he can sort of sharpen a pencil on that one. We'll talk about Allender's prospects. And we'll get his story. I think it's going to be one of those get to know and get to meet Evan Gold here. In the meantime,

I'm going to talk to Joe Smith of the athletic in a couple of seconds about this Quinn Hughes situation, which, you know, normally after, you know, you do a round of media, the question is, so how did that go? Well, yesterday was interesting. How did it go, Bill Garron? It went interesting. It was a very interesting day for Bill Garan making the rounds and talking about, of course, the hot button issue coming off the Calamacar signing with the Colorado Avalanche. What's happening with Quinn Hughes? We're going to play a collage. Ask any kid in America what he likes about rock and roll music,

I'll tell you it's the beat, the beat, the beat, the beat. So we're going to play the beat that was Bill Guerin yesterday. And we're going to play all the hits and all the high notes from yesterday's appearances as he made the media rounds talking about Quinn Hughes. We'll play this collage in case you've been living under a rock for the last 24 hours. Just to give our next conversation with Joe here some context, as we like to say. So this is the best of Bill Garen from yesterday. Enjoy.

If I ask this simple question, are you convinced that Quinn Hughes wants to play here next year and for the next X amount of years? You know I don't like answering those questions. Because those are just what ifs and it's like this, no good comes out of answering a question like that. But you have a good relationship with this guy. More than just here, the Olympics, he said all the right things.

We have a great relationship. But those questions to me, those are, I mean, they're just what-ifs. And I don't like to get into what-ifs. We want him here. The fans want him here. We do not want to lose him. And our fans do not want to lose him. That's why there's concern because they care.

Exactly. Unfortunately, I'm one of the only ones that's on the inside, so I actually know what's going on, but I can't divulge too much information. As you know, I'm honest with you. Yeah. So when you don't have information, you guess, and you speculate. Recklessly sometimes. A lot of times that builds anxiety. Yeah, that's a fair way to put it.

So I feel for the fans and people that really just. want to know and get this done but i can say look it i have a great relationship with quinn i have a great relationship with his agent we are communicating all the time i've spoken to quinn personally uh a few in person a couple times i've uh spoken him on the phone we've had good back and forth i've had great back and forth with his agent that's all we can do right now is just continue to communicate and we will continue to do that until you know something and so you have to announce your resignation yeah exactly pledge today that if you are unable if you are unable to get a contract extension I'll never come on your show for Quinn Hughes no no and

you are then forced to trade him you will resign as president of hockey operation because you can't trade them. You're over a barrel. You have to extend it. You know why. Because you were all in on the original move. Yeah, of course. Basically four number one picks.

I know you can get a bushel load from him. You can't trade them. The signal that sends is a defeat. Well, you can. So you're not willing to take the pledge. Doesn't sound like you. I'm not taking any pledge with you. Okay, that last part was just fun.

And you can tell that Gary went along. with it. Sharpening the pencil on this one, Joe Smith from The Athletic, who's been all over this story alongside colleague, Mike Russo from the Athletic as well. And we played the hits,

Joe, as we like to see in the radio business, play the hits, the kids won the hits. So we played the best of Bill Guerin from yesterday. We'll start off with this sort of big question. Like, what out of what Bill Garan said do you think was most salient?

Like, was there one point that you pulled out and said, okay, this is what to pay attention? to? Well, there's a couple ones, quite frankly. I think one of them was one of his early answers was the luxury is, I'm in on the inside. And so I know more than people on the outside. And so I think there's certain things that he can't say, doesn't want to say, doesn't feel it's appropriate to say, but that it gave him confidence that this thing can get done. And I do think the other point that he made or was asked about Kill McCarr and the impact of that deal on this deal. He said these two are different players, different situations.

yes, that sets a precedence or a bar because he's arguably the best defenseman in the world. And Quinn Hughes is a one A, one B, in my opinion. He's right up there. But Quinn might want different things. He's a different player, different personality. You kind of have to wait to see what he actually wants. So those are the two comments for me that kind of stood out there, the first one, obviously, but him be on the inside.

And I give him credit for playing ball yesterday with four interviews that he does. So he does that every year, right? And most times it's like jovial, like, ask about his woodworking passion or playing days. And like this is obviously a different tenor conversation. So I just, he handled it maybe different than me. Other GMs might have handled it in years past. But I think he's a guy who keeps his close to the vest. He doesn't want to talk about it publicly.

And so the fact that he did, I think try to play ball and give fans people who were there an answer. Because I think he understands why fans are concerned or worried because that's the nature of being a fan in market where you have a wonderful player like they did Caprisoff last year. It was the same thing. You know, it's interesting too because in a situation like that, and I do give him credit for showing up. And like you mentioned, he does this and he goes into the lion's mouth. And that happens.

That's what Bill Guerrins does. He didn't have his Jim Rutherford moment. Like there were times we had thought he was going to be close. And he sort of walked right up to the Rutherford line, but didn't step over. But underlying all of it, there was still this elephant in the room and that is the presence of his brothers in New Jersey. And that's, I don't know that that fuels every conversation with him and Pat Brisson,

CAA, or him with Quinn Hughes, etc. But it's there, right? Like it's, it's, whether it's up front or whether it's a fog in the distance, that's sort of omnipresent in all these conversations, isn't it? Well, I mean, I think he was there when the wild acquired him in mid-distance. December, right? Like even before that, there was, Brotherford made up those comments and stuff. And I think the Wilde knew at that point, like Quinn wasn't ready to commit to Vancouver. He wasn't ready to give assurances to whoever acquired him that he was going to sign an extension there.

And that's fair. And that's, you know, the Wild went in there with open eyes and open arms and bringing Quinn Hughes in. But they were betting on themselves that they can say, hey, the hockey is good here. the market's good here. Like if this is a winning team and they know that when he uses a really smart hockey player and he's a student to the game and knows every team's players and prospects and cap situations, they can convince him the hockey is good and the fit's good, then they'd be confident that they could sign him to an extension. So yeah, I think obviously the presence of his brothers hasn't changed in the last 10, 11 months,

but I'm sure as it gets closer towards free agency, that's where I'm sure people in New Jersey are more excited about that. But I think let's wait until the season starts. And if they're not a deal, then you can maybe have a little more concern. But as you know, Jeff, being in the business a long time, there's usually pressure points in negotiations and summertime for a lot of places to get away and do their fun things. And if it gets closer towards camp starting or a season starting, nothing's happening,

then all of a sudden it's a little more time to hit a panic button than right now. He saw Kyle McCar sign a couple days ago, too, and he was one of the same guys in the same situation. Yeah. You know, I'm sure you get the same texts that I do, probably more since this is your beat, you know, Quinn Hughes follows Seamus Casey on Instagram or here's another picture of the family. And it's like you want to put on your Quinn Hughes, the coder ring and kind of say like, is he trying to tell us something? Is this like, is like, you know, tap three times with your knuckles if you want to go to New Jersey? Like, I'm sure you get the same that that I do. Do you read into any of that?

Or is that just, look, he's tweeting about his, he's putting out on pictures of his family on social media, like a lot of people do. Or following James Casey. This isn't the first offseason he spent a lot of time with his family, right? You know, I think that that's the pictures that came out on Instagram, either him at the Morgan Wall concert with his brother in Ann Arbor or just pictures of them of the Jersey Shore or whatever like that.

I think I'm not surprised those are out there anytime it's on social media. Oh, like, yes, he loves to hang out with his family. He loves his family. I met his parents who were awesome people. And obviously, you know Jack and Luke too. But I don't think those Instagram photos are an indication of like, like, does he need to be in Minnesota in the middle of the summer and playing golf with that boldie? You know, not necessarily. But I'm sure that, well, families will love that.

He will be here, expected to be here September 10th and starting workouts here and stuff like that. And I'm sure the wife's hope. Fans hope that he's signed soon and thereafter. But right now, obviously, it's not done. So a couple of things here. So one of the questions is, and, you know, Bill Garon sort of hinted at this and says, like, you know, he's a different guy and he may have different things that he wants and things that he wants to achieve, et cetera. And you can take that two ways. You can say, well, Kail Makara got the bag because he's already got his cup.

And he's got all the individual trophies and et cetera. So now is the time to cash in. Quinn Hughes in a different situation here. or you can read it just that he wants to play with his family. But the ultimate question is, Quinn Hughes knows this, Jim Hughes knows this, his brother knows this, his agent Pat Brisson knows this. What does he want? Because like the money is going to be the money.

Like it's going to be probably somewhere in between Celebrini and McCar. Like that's going to be, that's going to be his number. We all strongly suspect. Do you have any idea like what he wants? is it he needs Garen to show him that he has the team that can be competitive for the next however many years. Like what is it? Like what is it that when Garen references he may want different things? What are those things?

Yeah, that's hard to extrapolate. I mean, I think obviously I've only been around him a short period of time since he came to Minnesota. So what I want to pretend is to be inside of his head. But I do just from the time I've been around him are talking to people from former coaches to teammates. like that is like he's an intense competitor he wants to win like the gold medal you know for the team USA was just the hope to tip the iceberg for what could be in this career and so like he's very passionate about the game um and he has um encyclopedic knowledge of the league and he knows like the one story i'll tell you is the plane flight flight back when they picked him up after the

trade in jersey garen was on the play with a couple executives and in quinn and the whole playing ride like garen was like he's talking about hockey about different teams about players about his team like if anybody knows who's a better chance of winning a cup or chance to get a cup, I think Quinn Hughes is a really strong knowledge of the league in the situation. So, I mean, I can't speak to everything about, like, him wanting to play with his family or how important that it is compared to everything else. But he is a competitor. He wants to win.

And I guess the key for the while at the last however many months was trying to show him, hey, like, you could be a difference maker in us, you know, bringing a cup to Minnesota, which would be an amazing, you know, drinks for life here. obviously. But I think that's something that they have to, he has to be, you know, he has to watch the off season like, oh, did they get Dillenark? And did he do this? You know, what could be the big swing?

But he knows his team well. He's been around him. He, the guys love him. He's been in well with the team at the room. So he knows that. It just a matter of like, where do you want to spend the next three years? Like, I don't think it'll be eight, but I think he signs it'll be a shorter-term deal. But that's still, that's still a big commitment.

It's still a big commitment in a guy's career. And I think I don't, I understand why it would take longer for him. to decide that. You know, if you ask them songwriters, they'll tell you, you know, one of the great magical words that always sets up a great song is the word if, if this happens, if I could do this, only if I had done that. It gets a great, wonderful device for songwriting. Bill Guerin did not want to write a song that had the word if in it yesterday, but you

and I can. If they can't get Quinn Hughes signed, what then? Does it have to be a trade? can they say you know what what we want is not there we're just going to ride or die with Quinn Hughes and then whatever happens next July

happens if this deal can't come together because I think a lot of people obviously Minnesota Wild fans wonder about this if this doesn't happen what then well I'll preface this by saying like of the intention the wild have gotten from from Quinn Hughes's campus that his intention is

to resign and I still think he will. Doesn't mean that it's guaranteed, but that's a hard hypothetical, you know, for Bill Guerin, for his staff to think about. But if Quinn does go to them eventually and say, my intention is not to resign here. I'm going to be honest with you guys. This is not where I want to be. I want to do something. Explore free agency or do whatever. The wild would have that information. And then I think it'd be a hard decision to say whether you, since you gave up so much for him in the beginning with Z. Booiam and like equivalent of four first round picks. But your team's not going to be better when you trade Quinn Hughes.

And this is their window right now. They have a few year window. They have these guys in their prime and top players. And so it'd be hard for me to like, it's hard to win a Quinn Hughes trade, you know, especially when you know you don't have as much leverage. So that would be a hard one for me. I can't say that wouldn't be a possibility that would consider moving that. but I think that we're not quite near that scenario right now.

But I don't think Garan wanted to go there yesterday, and I know it'll get aggregated in this podcast, too. So I don't know if I want to go there yet. But yeah, I mean, as your organization, you think big picture and small picture, and they gave up a lot to get Quinn. And so their belief in confidence is that they will have them for an next foreseeable future. It's, look, it's the attention economy. it's a clip universe that we all live in right now. And the one thing that I was thinking watching these clips from yesterday, and maybe if you want to sort of have a whack at this pinata and play, you know,

Timu, Bill Garan, go for it. But like I was waiting for someone to say, do you have a plan if Quinn Hughes won't resign? I mean, I think every organization should or I think they've had them long enough to have that idea, right? I think you have to, if you make that move in December, and obviously that was more of like a quicker decision because they don't think they realize that he was available until then and you make your best pitch and it happened within a week, right? But I think now you've had more time to think about it and realize where he fits, how much of a difference maker he was in this lineup, where you want to be as a team in your championship, quote, chase arc. So yeah, you have to have a plan.

So I think I believe that the wild would have a plan for that, whether you can execute it or not, or whether that's a plan you really want to go to, is another thing. So it's just a hard situation because they have such, they feel like a really good team in a window with these guys and their primes and the cap number that they have, that they feel like that last year was just kind of a glimpse of what they can do. If Ericson and Necroprotein were healthy in round two, because that made a difference in them getting past Colorado. So obviously their hope is going further this year and be a lot better chance to do that if Quinn Hughes is in their lineup. One more question about Quinn Hughes. And I want to ask you about the Minnesota Wild and sort of on the horizon and where they fit into a really interesting central division.

And that is, what is the fan base doing with this? I'm always curious because I'm not there. You're there. You know, the vibe, the culture, the fans, how they feel. It's not as if this is a naive hockey community. This is a really smart hockey community. Like, what are they doing with this? What is the Wild or New Jersey fan base doing with this?

Good question. I think I get the wild fan base, they are a smart fan base. Like, they're passionate. Like, then they've been really patient over the years with this team and hoping for a winner. And they are, there are some sense of nervousness out there and some fans that are worried, and I felt the same thing last summer when Caprisoff went through this. You know, there was some sense and worry.

Like, this is the best player in franchise history to this point. Like, you can't afford him for him to leave and all that stuff. So I think this is a familiar feeling to last year. I think to what Bill Guerin mentioned yesterday, too. He's like, I had to talk fans off the ledge last year, and look what happened. We signed him, and he's here for the rest of his career. So I think that's kind of where you could sense that fans can see how good this, team can be. And so to have this type of player like Quinn Hughes, a generational player on your

team that give them all even more credibility and kind of stature around the National Hockey League, the threat of him not being there is definitely something that would worry fans. But I also think that they're very, our fan survey for the wild, they were also very passionate and very confident in Bill Guerin and the staff. And so I think one of those things will end up being, you know, rewarding the faith, I guess, in that respect. Where do you see Minnesota in the Central? Like, Winnipeg is kind of a wild card here, and we'll see what happens with Connor Hallibuck. So I'll bracket them right now.

The Dallas Stars had to, you know, listen, they lost a big piece in Maverick Bork. Robertson re-ups for one year, but I don't think anyone thinks that that drama is done. The Colorado Avalanche, as much as, you know, when they won their Stanley Cup, we thought, okay, here comes, you know, destiny time, or dynasty time, rather, for the avalanche. And that hasn't actualized. they've hit a lot of playoff speed bumps as well. Where do you see Minnesota fitting into this division? And I think obviously Utah took a big step, I think, too, was what they did in the last season.

True. And now they were a time to play. So I think they're still vying for that top three spot. I mean, the third spot, I think still, you know, Dallas and Colorado are going to be there. Winnipeg, like you mentioned, is kind of a question mark. We'll see what happens with Connor Hullabuck and the rest of that roster.

But Utah's coming, you know, really fast there. and they've got a really good team. And so they could be a challenge for that third slash four spot. And you always have a surprise team, right? You always have somebody who falls off that you didn't think would fall off. So I think the wild know that they're going to be in a fight for those spots in the top of the Central Division. They know who they have to go through, right? They had to go through Dallas and Colorado last year.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they go through those two guys again. A last one on then we'll let you get on with your day. When fans, I think fans when they see like, and we'll just use Lark. and as an obvious example, when they see, okay, he'll only go to, you know, Florida and Vegas and Dallas. Like you think, okay, like, it's a financial consideration to say nothing of, you know, living in, you know, a warmer climb where your body feels great when you wake up in the morning and you open the curtains and it's a shot of vitamin D. Why does Minnesota pop up on so many I want to go here lists? for those that like wonder, like, what is it about Minnesota, that place where they call hockey pants breezers?

Like, what is it about this place? Yeah, people do move from Tampa to Minnesota, apparently, right? So that has happened before. Years past, you know, we love it here. But, yeah, I think overall, like, the way they treat their players is top-notch. I think the fact they are, you know, more of a winning team and have a playoff caliber team, the way, the fact they have superstars, you know, Caprisoff and Matt Boldie and Brock Faber's entering the,

that conversation. I think great players want to play with great players. And so I think Quinn Hughes made them even more attractive team for players like a Dylan Larkin or whoever else. So great place to raise family, youth hockey, all that stuff. The place is full all the time, right? So like good and bad seasons, playoff droughts or not playoff droughts. So there's a lot of reasons for it. It just, I think they're driving the momentum right now and the momentum would only be fueled if they assigned Quinn to an extension here. But yeah, it's a great place. I mean, you'd have guys, the veterans have played forever, like the Bogosians and the world

who really love playing here too. So they become more of a destination than they maybe have in previous years or even part, even most of their history, I think, right now. Last one, I lied. John Hines, is everyone sleeping on how good a coach this guy is? Yeah, I mean, the wild aren't sleeping on it. I mean, we believe he'll be assigned to extension before the season starts. You know, Bill Garon's a big believer in him.

He's just a very detailed. He's not a flashy coach. He's not big for sound bites in the media, which some of us are used to more than others. But he's just, he's smart. He's really good communicator one-on-one with players and knows how to kind of do that, knows how to kind of let the players take ownership of the room. So his details and his way of simplifying messaging is something that really stands out to both management. in players.

And so, but this will be the best team he's ever coached. I mean, talent-wise, aside from the Olympics, like in the NHL, and so the Ravis sees more pressure that goes along with coaching a team

that is, they feels that is in a cup window. So that'll be kind of interesting to watch the season goes on. But he's been what they wanted since he came here after Dean Havison was let go. Interesting, interesting times.

Listen, thanks so much for, for Papa. I'm sure you didn't have, you know, plan like, here we are September 1st. We're still talking about Quinn Hughes, but it's, listen, it's, it's, first of all, you've covered this sport for a long time, too. This is the wildest summer I've ever seen.

Like, if every summer is, if every summer is like this, give me this every year. This is fantastic. You can do work from the cottage or away from the cottage. You can have your laptop anywhere. It's like, so there's straight, trust, or offer sheets or whatever makes the game more exciting and fascinating, interesting to fans. Like, I think we always say we root for a good story, right? And that's all we put forward. So it's plenty of those

going around in this lead right now. We'll be doing all of this next year around Connor McDavid. Just think about that 12 months from now. You're the best. Thanks for doing this, Joe. Much appreciate it. Hey, any time. Thanks so much. Joe Smith covers the Minnesota Wild for the athletic and does an excellent job alongside Mike Russo, who does a lot of the national beat. And Joe is the boots on the ground

right there with the Minnesota Wild. And listen, a lot of times when when managers are in situations like Bill Garen is in right now with Quinn Hughes, they try to be as measured and as sensitive with their words and they try not to be reckless. And we all know Bill Garen. Like Bill Garen is a great interview and he shoots in the hip. Like there's, I don't think it's any surprise that, you know, he was in Pittsburgh for as long as he was with Jim Rutherford and some of that has probably rubbed off on Bill Garen, although he's always,

he's been that guy. Even when he played, he was always a go-to. You ask him a question, he'll give you an answer. This one, of course, a very sensitive situation. So I'm not exactly surprised that Bill took things as far as he could. Zach, I'm curious your thoughts on this one. That Bill took things as far as he could yesterday without really stepping either over it or in it, if you know what I mean.

he was doing a little bit of a Jimmy Rutherford impression But he didn't But he didn't go full Rutherford He didn't go full Rutherford He flirted with the Rutherford Which was kind of funny considering the subject at hand Of who they're talking about But yeah

No it was a very entertaining And listening to Bill go around it with that I thought that I thought that he said more than I was anticipating him to say Like my takeaway was like a lot of managers more than a lot of men yes more than a lot of managers would if I can cut you off. Yeah. We're used to a very listen in our lives right now we're very much sensitive to and aware of classic corporate speak. And that was not Bulgarian yesterday.

A lot of that comes up with experience and time in and all. And that's just and that's just Garrett. Yeah. And I also want to like add context that we know this is very. very much up Bill Garon's alley to shoot from the hip as you just outlined. But even more so just where you're at and how much was divulged about, you know, we're going to make sure we get Carole Caprizz off back here next year. And then it was like, wait a minute.

And then all of a sudden, Carol Caprizo signs a huge ticket. It's like, okay, you'd think maybe the Wilde kind of took that and said, hey, we'll hold off a little bit here. Maybe we'll keep some things to ourselves. And then Billy G just goes out and kind of says all that. But that was the owner, too. Like where the owner is like, no, no, he's staying. I'm going to just give them the bag.

I know. I know. But it's entertaining nonetheless. And for us, I think that that's the stuff I'll chew up every day. I couldn't get enough of watching the clips last night. Oh, they were great. They really were. This has been, as we mentioned with Joe, a couple of seconds ago, this has been a really

entertaining off season so much so that we are like scared to keep the, to get the feed cold. Like we wanted to keep it hot and keep doing shows because there was just so much to go over. And I think that I think the Danny Breyer offer sheet as well scared anyone. I think most sane people in our industry at this side of it in media that if Briere's going to do that, who knows what's going to happen next, we're just going to stay on the air. So a lot of people had interesting off seasons and our next guest had a fascinating offseason as well. He is Evan Gold. He is the assistant general manager of the New York Islanders and the general manager of the very coolly named Hamilton Hammers.

Evan, thanks so much for doing this. Much appreciated. How are you today? I'm great, Jeff. Hi, guys. How are you? We're good. We're good here.

Hey, listen, I'm not going to ask you to comment on anything with any other teams. They're always sensitive about tampering, et cetera. But we're just talking about how Bill Garron sort of approached a line in his conversations about Quinn Hughes yesterday and then never really stepped over. I mean, you know, you're in management and have been for some time. How sensitive when you speak publicly, how sensitive are you about figuring out quickly where the line is and how everybody at this end of the microphone will have their like, Evan Gold, decoder rings out and try to figure out, okay, what is he actually trying to tell us here? Like, how much of that is front of mind when you're speaking?

I think you guys probably have, excuse me, more decoder rings on Bill Guerin than you would have on me, hopefully. Listen, no, it's like you guys where I was just listening before I came on with you. It's like you guys said, it's 2026. There's lots of air time. There's lots of interpretation time. The truth is these are sensitive. These are challenging negotiations on both sides, agent, player, family, as well as for the team. Yeah.

There's a lot at stake here. And, you know, again, I'll take it out of another team's context. but when we're focused on signing our own players or when you know you're going into sort of one of these high-profile negotiations, it's critical that you stick on your messages, stick to what messages you want to deliver, what you want to avoid, what's important for the player and his agent to hear, et cetera. It's critical. You know, we were mentioning a couple of seconds ago just how much of a wild offseason this has been, you know, whether it's, you know, offer sheets or massive contracts and trades,

et cetera, and it's just continuing now and trade requests, et cetera. I mean, it's, it's been a fascinating summer. And it's been a fascinating one for you as well. And, you know, one of the things that I'm curious about is how do you go about selling yourself? You know, I've talked to so many people that are, assistant general managers, for example, who are, you know, who are uncomfortable with the idea of sort of, you know, marketing themselves, getting themselves out there, getting their name known. And these are like very capable assistant general managers that should probably be GMs and you've met all of them. How do you go about distinguishing yourself or selling yourself so every, because everybody got to know your name this summer.

Everybody. I mean, hardcore hockey fans have always known your name. Now everybody knows your name. How did that happen for you? Joe, I don't know that it's ever really been about selling myself from a brand standpoint or anything like that. I've always approached it, sort of lessons from my family were just letting your work speak for itself, doing a good job, working hard, being a relationship builder, doing good work for your bosses, being a loyal servant. Those were always sort of my focal points. It was never really about getting my name out. but I think that happens when you do the things I mentioned. And I was grateful and honored that a couple of teams thought that I was a worthwhile person to speak with for vacancies that they had.

That was flattering. And but beyond that, it's really, for me, it's about the work. It's about doing good work now here for the Islanders, now with Matthew and the group that we've got assembled here. the focus is on the next footstep in front of me in terms of just doing good work and trying to get better every day. I know it's a hockey cliche. You guys hear it all the time from the players, but I do think that's always been my approach. Just be consistent, keep growing, keep learning, get better every day. If someone thinks that that's good enough for them, then I'm flattered and honored to talk about that.

The, the, um, the NHL is going through a real change right now. And I think a lot of it for players in compensation is all about the, the rising cap, et cetera. But like there, there seems to be, there seems to be a change, a palpable change. And the way that I've, the way that I've phrased it from management is like this. The NHL now at the management level is less and less about did you play and more and more about can you think, where once upon a time, if you didn't grow up shooting frozen cow patties off the side of a barn and swift current, you couldn't run a hockey team. That's all

changed. Other sports figured that out first and now finally hockey is one of the dogs at the dish there. When you look at the quote unquote modern front office or where this is all headed, right? Like front offices now are large. Now we've seen large front offices before, but the one thing that I would always look at Evan as I'd say, yeah, this team has a big front office, but it's five of the same guys. You know, where everybody's seal clapping and good idea boss, right? Like the modern front office now is different. You're there. You're inside. You have one of these positions. How would you describe the modern front office or where the front office is going in hockey right now? I agree with a lot of the points and the way you characterize it, Jeff. I think it's a positive. I think it's a positive.

I'm biased. I still shot frozen cow patties. I just missed the net more than a lot of people who played in the NHL. The truth is, I think it's we're following trends that echo across all sports, whether it's the four major sports in North America, the premiership, the, you know, what's going on in global soccer. It's a good thing. We know more now than we've known five years ago. 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Technology has played a huge role in that. AI is now changing and super speeding, you know, the impact of technology. So all of this is going to go into it.

You referenced, you know, maybe in one of your earlier questions, some of my peers, people who are certainly capable of running teams themselves, who might not have the former player background. I think we used to call that untraditional or non-traditional. And I think hopefully that that's gone away. And I do think I'm biased because I didn't play.

So I admit a bias in saying this. But I think there are so many capable individuals who are working and preparing to hopefully run teams themselves one day. And the nice thing is at the ownership level, at the president level, the mindset has changed. So yes, there are more roles, more jobs. More jobs is good for more people to prove themselves, right? And an expanded staff lets you take chances on maybe what we would have called more non-traditional hires. Now you have, you know, an analytics GM. I don't think Eric would mind being dubbed that, who is a Stanley Cup champion, right?

So that will now open doors for people with more of a computer or an analytics bend, you know, to hopefully eventually run teams one day. people like me who are more a hybrid. You know, I have a certain educational background, but I've also been in the game for almost 20 years. So there's lots of people, you know, with that kind of hybrid approach and experience level that I also think can just be a really valuable skill set to bring to the table.

You know, you mentioned AI a couple of seconds ago, and I'm curious, the one area that I wonder about when the conversation about AI pops up in hockey is analytics departments. do you think that AI takes a bite out of them, that a lot of what they do can be done through AI? I think you're asking this question that's being asked a lot in the mainstream public, right? Which is, is AI going to take away jobs or is it actually going to expand things?

Yeah. It's a great question. I don't have the crystal ball. Obviously, the stock market and that marketplace right now is invested quite heavily in it. I'm probably, if I were to just give you my uneducated two cents, I'm probably more in the camp that it expands than contracts things. With the amount of data we're certainly now getting and are going to continue to get at the NHL level,

I can only imagine that's going to filter down to other leagues worldwide and the HL eventually, I hope. So just you're talking about copious data sets that I just think you're going to need both manpower and artificial power as well to plow through. And AI is essentially then, based on what you're saying, then AI just becomes the filter for that. Like, rid of the noise, drill down to get me what I need.

Is that accurate? My personal belief, I may reframe it a little. I guess I think of it, and again, I'm not an expert on this. I think of it a little bit more as AI is going to do the 80% that it would take so long for humans to do, but you are still going to, going to need a human staff of some kind, of some size, of some expertise to then not only check the work that the computers are doing, but also add that, let's call it human touch.

Communication, right? Like, it's one thing to have it. I mean, you know this story. Like, when, you know, with with with the rise of analytics, let's put a target date like 2010, you know, all of a sudden, every front office had to have a department or a person. Now, many of these reports, as you well know, went underneath the general manager's nose and then right into the garbage. But at the end of the year, when the owner said, do we have, what did our analytics department say about this? You could say something because you had an analytics department. The ones that put the premium on it ended up winning Stanley Cups. And as you mentioned, Eric Tulski, you know, with the Carolina Hurricanes.

But I also look at, you know, the Florida Panthers, the Tampa Bay Lightning, like the conversation of VyTest versus Analymp. Like that one is all gone. But as many people in the analytics community continue to tell me, it's one thing to have produced the raw data and the information, there's still the communication piece to everybody else in the organization and how to use it. Right. Like that's and that falls under strategy and tactics, I would imagine. Does that, does that resonate with you? Like the communication piece is massive there. It's one thing to have all the numbers and the information. but how do you communicate it so everybody understands it? Absolutely.

I agree with that. For me, it's two similarly related points. It's communication, which is what you're talking about, the translating of data and integration. You can hire 10 people tomorrow. If you have a Ferrari sitting in the garage that you're not actually using,

well, you've got a Ferrari in the garage. Congratulations. So I firmly believe some of the, some of the advantages of having a staff are not only the you know just having the bodies and the man man and lady power but also the processing power the communication and then really how are you integrating it into your day-to-day workflow how are you integrating it into your decision-making I think that's where some of the real advantages can come okay um question about how you felt

about the New York Islanders while you were with the Boston Bruins. Like every time you would see them. And I know a lot of your work was, of course, with Providence. And so we can throw Bridgeport slash now Hamilton into this equation. But how did you Evan see the New York Islanders while you were with the Bruins? I don't know that it's any different than how I saw them now really, which is sort of a transitional team, some really good veterans. and what appears to be a generational defenseman, a really strong goaltending up, you know,

you know, now with Pete here, especially, I think, you know, a veteran coach who's had tremendous success, pretty much everywhere he's gone. So that's what's really exciting for me. You know, coming to work for a leader like Matthew, you know, who I've known personally for several years, that all of that together and what I think we could build here

is what was really exciting for me. When you look at the battery between the New York Islanders and the Hamilton Hammers, by the way, great name. You know, I look at Peter DeBore, who I have a lot of time for going back to his time in the Ontario League, specifically with the Kitchener Rangers. And, you know, I just look at like the way that he has his teams play. Simple things.

Like, you know, our point shots aren't for goals. Our point shots are for rebounds. That's what we're trying to create here. Like, that's always been like a, Peter DeBoer's signature. It didn't matter what team he was with. That's sort of, I believe, a core belief. We saw it most recently with Dallas.

Core belief of Pete DeBore. Do you take that information, and for your head coach, Jay McKee and Hamilton, do you try to harmonize the two? Like, the way you're going to play in Hamilton needs to be the way that Pete DeBore coaches the New York Islanders. I think I'll probably leave those initial conversations between Pete and Jay.

I will say philosophically at a high level, it's important to me that the minor league team mirror the major league team, the NHL team with certain non-negotiables. I do think, you know, when you call up a defenseman to throw him into a totally different, you know, in zone structure than what he's used to playing, you know, for the previous 40 games he's played, that's a challenge, especially for younger players who might not have experienced different systems. So, you know, again, just superficially talking, Jeff, I do think it's important that the coaches get on the same page of what are my non-negotiables? What are the things that our players have to absolutely know how to do? It could be system stuff. It could be certain things in terms of wall play. It could be stick positioning, penalty kill, things like that. I don't know that it's realistic for exact mirroring HAL to NHL.

And frankly, I'm not sure I would advocate for that. I think as you move away from the net, you probably can have a little more freedom, a little more. You know, if Jay has certain things that he has had success with at the OHL level that he thinks, you know what, I'd like to try this here. I think there's certainly a discussion that the coaches can have. But those are just my two cents on that. The one of the standard questions of any AHL team. Are you there to win or are you there to develop?

It's not a secret how, you know, Calder Cup championships are won with veteran players, some high price, etc. How do you see the Hamilton Hammers? Like essentially, what are they there for? My answer to that is we want to develop players for the New York Islanders, develop the future of the New York Islanders, in a highly competitive environment.

Part of development is winning. We want our players to quickly become accustomed to what success feels like, both personally and as a team member. So I do think you can and frankly should strive to do both. I know there are times when either outwardly or even inwardly,

it can be perceived that they're banging into one another. And you'll always make decisions based on what you think is best, at that specific instance. But again, we want to compete. We want to win hockey games. We all are competitive individuals. And we want our players to achieve their absolute maximum ability.

And that's not just the young players, too. Obviously, the young players are the future of the Islanders. But we're going to have some really important veteran players that might be relied on for very important roles at various points of the season. It could be in New York. It could be for helping to develop players who are going to be counted on either in the short term or long run, you know, on Long Island. So all of that is, it's not a way of evading your question. The answer is both.

No, listen, it makes sense. Because I hate that I actually hate phrasing it that way because whenever I do hear it, I say to myself, you know, one of the great things about, you know, for young players winning is feeling what a full season feels like. Like it's got to be awful if, you know, halfway through the season, playoffs are already in the rearview mirror and you're playing, you know, these potato chip empty calorie hockey games that don't do you any good. Now, flip side of that is, yeah, make it a challenge to stay motivated and that becomes a mental exercise. But I think you're right. I think it is, it is both because there's a lot of value there for your, you know, Kashan Aitchison's of the world, like the next generation of the Cole Eisenman's young New York Islanders. The 19-year-old rule is an interesting one in the American League this year where CHL team, American Ocala League teams can bring on first round, provided their first-round

draft picks, 19-year-old NHL players. And CHL teams can lose more than one. I have a couple of questions about it. I haven't seen this publicly so I don't know the answer. I'm asking legitimately because I don't know. Does these players have to be assigned at the beginning of the season? Or can this happen in November, for example? No, I don't believe there's any time limit on when it has to happen.

Okay. And then as far as if you're going to reassign a player back to junior, I'm assuming it has to be before that CHL league's trade deadline. Again, I'm assuming that. Is that correct? I think you are correct. I believe there's a date in the new agreement where after that date, we cannot send the player back to that, to that league.

Right. So then my follow-up question to that is sort of my last simple. We've been talking about the 19-year-old HL for the long time. So my other one is, could you assign that if it's, if the player is having a really hard time at the American Hockey League, can you actually, can you assign that player to your ECHL affiliate or does he have to go back to junior hockey? I'm pretty sure it's an AHL exemption, not a pro hockey exemption. So I believe it was limited to the American League. Okay.

The only thing that's funny to me, Jeff, is we've been able to assign 19-year-olds. We just haven't been able to assign CHL draftees who happen to be 19. It's the power of the junior hockey operators. It is a little, no, well, I also, you know, I know you're familiar with the CHL and the OHL specifically. So I do get the interest in this. It is just a little bit funny because if you if you looked at it from 30,000 feet, you might come to the opposite conclusion, which is why do we have this rule protecting three leagues in the entire world?

When we don't protect every other 19 year old, right? Correct. Or if you have Europeans playing in the CHL, they could go to the American Oculeg. It's 19 year olds, no problem. But it's the homegrown NHL. Homegrown CHL. Exactly. Yeah.

I totally get the history and I grew up, you know, going to OHL games as well. So I do understand wanting to protect these leagues. I think I do think one positive thing is the timing of when we've done this. Because combined with what's going on in the NCAA, I think we've found this sweet spot where the CHL is actually going to benefit and not just, quote unquote, suffer a loss. Right. Gotcha. Okay, listen, I don't need to tell you. It's a really fascinating time right now in the CHL and Division I and the new relationship and the development pyramid.

I don't know if you have a thought on that one. Like, because, listen, you grew up with, you know, the CHL top dog and now the pyramid is like, look, the world juniors this year for the first time ever. Like, Team Canada is going to have a majority of players coming from college on the team. Like it is going to, when the lineup comes out and you see where they're playing, TSN will do the shot, it's going to be jarring, I think, for a lot of Canadian hockey fans to see just how many players. It's basically a 19-year-old tournament. How many players are actually playing in college?

And this happens suddenly and happened quickly as many, and I sort of grew up and watching CHL games, like, oh, this will never happen. And here we are. I don't know if you have a thought on where the development, how the development piece is working right. now in hockey but if you do I'd love to hear it. Two thoughts that come to mind. Number one for me I always I don't believe there's one path that works for everyone right. It's not plug and play for everybody so I do think you know different strokes for different folks and I think sometimes we have to remind ourselves

of that and number two I'm more just interested on what it looks like 10 years from now when we actually have some data to study in terms of okay. now what does development look like? Where have the success has been? Where are maybe some leagues, some teams, some other subset, where are they lagging behind where we were the prior 10 years? So we're just like you said and you've mentioned it, we're really on this sort of cusp of this new era.

But I'm sort of curious to study where it is if we could hit the fast forward button and learn what we're going to learn 10 years from now. when we have some complete data on where were the best development success stories for players. Okay, a couple of things to wrap up, a couple of quick hitters here, just going into your past. Listen, in Brampton, I know that you did some work. I believe while you were articling with Dale Aspen, you did some work with the Brampton Battalion and Stan Butler. Stan speaks glowingly of you.

What do you remember from those early days, you know, showing up? up in Brampton to help Stan Butler. Stan is a legend and Stan has been a good mentor for me. Those were really fun days. I'm actually still in touch with some of the staff members that Stan had assembled, cast a character as the owner, Mr. Abbott was a character and a good man as well. And they treated me great. They welcomed me in with open arms.

I was just happy being in a rink on Friday nights and Sunday afternoons and tracking face-offs and shot locations. I was very fortunate. Those were fun times. We had a lot of fun. I was able to join some road trips. And for me, it was about getting some dirt under my fingernails

in terms of, you know, riding buses with CHL-age players and learning. Sure. You know, how much sacrifice really went into their lives, you know, going to live with Billet families and moving away from homes at very early ages. It was not in my personal experience, obviously. So it was good for me,

to see and and learn that part of the culture. You know, I can, Kyle Dubus, when he ran the Souss, they had, you know, on the road, I believe it was the person who did group sales, travel with the team to track things like zone entries. You know, on a list of the primitive analytics era of junior hockey team.

So you did something similar then with, with Brampton? It was as primitive as a god, but yeah. North Toronto Hockey School, Stan Butler's as well, and do you have a thought on that and a thought on Burger Shack across the street? I believe they have the best onion rings in the world. Burger Shack is excellent.

I had to have been the worst hockey player in the camp. But again, in terms of sort of challenging yourself, getting out of your comfort zone, you know, and have fond memories of it. Okay, and last one for you. What was a better team? The law school team or Rotman School of Business hockey team. I was told to ask you that by someone who may have been a colleague of yours there.

The Hillcrest Select team was the best team. Nice touch. Nice touch. Listen, thanks so much for spending time with me today. I really appreciate it. Best of luck both with the Islanders and the Hamilton Hammers. We'll check in soon. Thank you very much for having me, Jeff.

There he is. Evan Gold is the Assistant General Manager of the New York Islanders. and Zach, if you know anything about me, you know, I'm always going to sneak in a Burger Shack question. You ever go to Burger Shack, by the way? That's what I was saying. Leave it to Jeff Merrick to ask a now general manager of an HL team here in Hamilton about his experience at a Burger Shack.

He's right, though, right? Like, what did you hear from Evan right away? Like Burger Shack is an institution, right? It really is. Like, Egglington and Avenue Road, baby. Well, let me search this up. I don't think I've been there. Burger Shack.

Have you ever played in our Toronto? North Toronto. I mean, North Toronto Arena is famous for, and his name is mentioned on the voicemail. And I believe, I don't know who it was from his family, but someone from Tom Wilson's family, because Tom grew up playing at North Toronto Arena. And when you leave a message there, it's, you've reached the offices of North Toronto Arena, home of Stanley Cup champion 2018, Tom Wilson, et cetera, et cetera, took the cup there, too after he won. What, you went to Burger Shack. I've never been here. I've never been here. I've never been here. I've never been here. I've been to Johnny's Burgers.

Oh, that's a standard. Yeah, yeah. That's at Vic Park and Shepard, I think. Yeah. Johnies is great. You know who dined out there on the regular and still raves about it? Kevin Weeks. That was his local.

Oh, really? Yeah. Apache was mine out in the West End, but Johnny's was Weeksies. I'm still not convinced that Johnny's is in a front for something and there's some money laundering going on in the scenes. But unbelievable burgers. Well, when I used to work at TSN, when they used to have their offices up at Vic Park and Shepard, when I was working at off the record with Lansberg, that was our staple. Like, oh, man, like every day almost.

We were at Johnny's for something, a milkshake, fries, burgers, whatever. That was a great spot. On a real spot. All these people in the chat are like, anybody outside of the GTAs? I know, I know. This is a great one for like Leap's morning take. It's a great combo for Leap's morning. It takes of Toronto Burger's stories.

Yeah. Listen, this was a, I mentioned it legitimately. Like this was a fascinating summer for Evan Gold. There was, you know, the, the Vancouver situation, Toronto as well. I am always interested in, you know, what the modern front office looks like. And now that, see, here's the thing. Because valuing and investing in an analytics department, was for a lot of teams a superpower

because other teams just wouldn't do it. They would have an analytics department, but as I mentioned, reports right into the garbage not interested. I can tell if players good, just by looking at them. So the advantage that other teams had, I'm just to strip away the arrogance,

was evidence and, like, proof of concept, proof of player more than anything else. but when everybody has that and everybody has like that war has been fought and it's it's over what advantages do you have right like what are the advantages I say what I'm asking is how did Carolina do this and they have an entire organization

that's fully bought in to all of it and they're focused and they're disciplined I mean how many times has Talski been on the show talking about specific players that can and can't play for the Carolina Hurricanes. It's not to say they can't play for other teams. They just can't play for that team.

And there's luck along the way and there's health along the way. What did Tulski said? Like we turned over 12 players and I'm 12 for 12. I know I'm not going to keep batting a thousand. Yeah. It's one of the things that no one likes to talk about and that is luck. But like what are the advantages now? Now that everybody's bought into this.

Like you look at, you know, you look at your team. Like Toronto, look at that front office. Yeah. Which they basically turned over entirely here this summer also. a side note to that, but yes. Yeah, you're right. It's huge. I'm just curious.

Like, what are the advantages that you have here? Yeah. Fascinating guy. I thought he was very. I thought he's very interesting. I thought there's two things that stood out to me. One was the quote about, and maybe it's the quote itself was the flashy part of it, that it was like, whoa, wow, he said that.

It was the, if you have a Ferrari but don't know how to use it. Like, it's great to garage, but you don't know how to use it. There's a clip, Zach. I love how you just think about like, okay, what's going to be the clip? I have a feeling that Ferrari clip is going to be the one from Evan. It's funny that the more we've worked together, I think we've both rubbed off on each other where I know there's times where you're like, oh yeah, is that going to be a good clip? Will that work for the clip?

You're asking me. I'm like, yeah, yeah, that'll work for the clip. There's times where I'm like, I got to stop thinking so like TikTok brain where everything's just these 30 to 60 second segments. Resistance is bigger picture. wrong stuff. I've got to look at stuff. Listen, resistance is futile. I try to make it a combination of like more sort of like longer form, thoughtful things.

But I am in the back of my mind because we do live in a clip universe. What's going to get a clip? We all do now. Yeah. Like this is just part of the job. Like I'm sure you get plenty of, you know, younger people that are just breaking into the or want to break into the industry and how do you do it and what advice would you give and what was it like when you first started? Like you must already get that now. now that you're way more established than when you started, obviously.

And one of the big changes is now we don't think long form as much as we think short form. These are long form programs, it's an hour-long podcast, usually an hour-long hour plus. You know, we don't have this sort of authority of, you know, scheduled breaks and time dictating what we do. But at the same time, it's a clip universe. Yeah. It really is. It's a clip universe. Yeah.

And it ain't going to change. Ain't going to change. No. Teapaste ain't going back in the tube. No, it is not going to change. It's going to get more and more and more fast-paced and a little bit more ADHD, I guess. That's the way my brain works. That's what's going to happen.

But the other one that was brought up was it's Stefan Rosner tweeted this out here as well. Appreciate Stefan for putting some stuff out following along. Everybody should subscribe to the Almonters 100%. But one of the things that stood out. and that Stefan pointed out on on X now was that Evan brought up the fact that he found it important that the minor league team at Hamilton was going to mimic the islanders but you know he wouldn't advocate for mirroring the islanders and I just thought that was interesting like it's a it's a minor thing there or like a small thing to include but he was like yes we will

mimic we will because but it wouldn't say mirror to that was interesting to just I am sensitive to the idea that there's going to be different styles of players and you can't turn, you know, you can't turn Cole Iserman into Boeravat, right? Like you're not going to try to have everybody playing the exact, Colizman has to be Cole Isman. Because Sean Aitchison is not going to play defense like Tony DiAngelo. Like everybody has to have their own personality. and you have to bring that out. My only sort of point was, like, strategically. Yeah.

Is it going to be similar to how DeBoer coaches? Yeah, and I completely get that. I just thought it was interesting the way he answered and put it out there. And, you know, the other thing that I thought about, and I think I more so kind of came to light with it after probably having gotten to meet Jay McKee was even in that question, Jay McKee's not Pete DeBore. Oh, like, it's not a car. carbon copy of the coach.

They don't have the same style in terms of their personal relationships, in terms of their communication skills, in terms of their exes and nos. Like, there's no point of making everybody on the minor league team all have to be the same as the NHL team. It's not going to work. It's so hard. It's so hard to be an HL coach and here's why. Put it this way, when you're in the American League, nobody wants to be there. everybody wants to be in the NHL and you're close right in the ECHL nobody wants to be there you want to be in the American League everybody wants to be that that one step higher so how do you distinguish yourself when you're a coach in the American Hockey League you win oh he won in the American Hockey's who he's going to get the bump up same thing in junior hockey you win but when you're an American Hockey League coach and it's developed the players develop the players no I don't want a veteran in that situation I know it's late in the game and you're sitting on one goal lead but I want my 21st one goalie but I want my 21

one-year-old defenseman to know that pressure. So you've got to put him on the ice. Not the guy who's 30, who's been through it a million different times. You know that it's going to be a safe play. It's got to be so hard as a coach. They be like, I'm paid here to win. I am paid to develop. But if I'm going to distinguish myself to take that next step,

got to win hockey games. Yeah. Interesting spot to be. And I know that there's different ways to approach it as well. I've watched different coaches in the HL level handle players and situations and rosters different ways because they are trying to accomplish what you just mentioned. They got to win. They want to keep their jobs.

They want to get to the NHL. They want to stay around. But it is. I thought his point about like they're not like the idea of developing and winning are not mutually exclusive. And again, I always come back to the point. Like you want all of your kids to know what a full season feels like. So when you finally do have it, it's not a shock. You're just like, yep, this is how you pace yourself through a successful season.

There is that, like that is a skill. Like that I believe, and it's one of the skills that we don't ever really talk about, to be honest with you. How do you pace yourself through a season? So you can not just survive, but thrive and get to the playoffs and then still have something. That is a skill. It's a skill of, it's a mental skill. it's a it's a discipline that not all players have. Like just so many, man, you know how hard it is to make to the NHL?

Like, you ever just sit there and think about all the things that have to go right and all the things you have to do? And then like you'll think, you know, two days later, oh yeah, but there's also this thing too. And you hear a conversation like, oh yeah, there's that as well. Listen, I'm dumb, but here comes a dumb statement. Getting to the NHL's hard. It's a really, really good league.

And a lot of people want to stay there because it's awesome. It is so hard to get there. You have to do so many things right. And how many guys, again, so close. I'm sure you've skated with guys that are like, this guy's incredible. Like this guy's got NHL skill. What's keeping him from that? And then you realize it's not just about the skill.

There's so many skill players. Right? Sometimes it's environment luck. all these different types of things. Like, I'll tell you story. I remember playing it was a Sunday game. I got a bunch of psycho buddies when I was living in Toronto. And they would play this Sunday night game at McCormick Arena in the West End.

I love McCormick. Right in Parkdale's great old barn, man, do I love McCormick? Anyway, they used to play a game called Game 7 at 7. And it was like Sunday nights at 7 o'clock. And it was hardcore. And these guys would like, all these guys, most of them played the coast. My buddy Colin played in Germany. A bunch of guys said, but they played pro hockey.

Okay? And I remember there was one team in the game seven at seven league that I played in. And trust me, I had no business being in this league. I was like, Colin, like, what are you doing? He's like, no, buddy, you're doing great. I was terrible. Like, based on like the skill set of these guys, I'm like, I had no business being in there. But Colin's like, no, you're my deep partner, bud, you're my deep partner. Pete Sarno, okay, who I believe led the American League in scoring a couple of different times. I think with Manitoba and then I think with Syracuse.

People will check me on that, I'm sure. And I remember being on the ice with them and going like, this guy is phenomenal. No one can do, P. Sarno can do whatever he wants. No one could come close to him. His pivots are incredible. His acceleration is elite. His shot is like, good luck stopping that thing. Like he's like, I'm like, this is the best player I've ever been on the ice with. Pause. And he'll never play in the NHL. Yeah. And then you realize just how good those guys are. It's insane.

I'm sure you play like American Hockey League guys. We're like, how's this guy not in the NHL? How's this guy not in the league? Right? Yep. Seen them, train with them, like whatever,

played men's league with guys now who are in the summer leagues. They, you know, they come back from playing pro in some other league, whether that be, you know, in the Dell or the guys in the cage, shell or whatever and you're looking at them you're like what the hell are you doing playing anywhere but north america yep there's a lot of good players how good players out there who was it the turn

style of you mason marchment was it mason marchment that that did it to you your jockstrap still spinning yep i just remember stepping him stepping down i'm like keeping the gap keeping the gap and just drops the shoulder inside i'm like okay and then he just drops it outside and i went oh i am way done this is there's no recovering from this thing and you just hear yeah yeah that's hey you know what hey that's on me we'll we'll get better from this we'll move forward he skated back to the bench was just like yeah i just made a sandwich who cares that's it yeah that was that was a warm-up drill woke up from a nap tuna philly all right uh that's enough of us today uh we are back on

Thursday, the newly moved Greg Wyshanski. Normally, Greg joins us on Tuesdays here on the program. But today's moving day for our boy, Greg Wishinsey. I think he moved like four blocks down from where he lives now. So it's like a massive move. But still, like, that guy needs more space. Like, you're not going to have like, you know, your newborn sleeping on the, you know, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the stove. Wherever they sleep.

Stove. Like the oven drawer and the oven door. He's like to sleep like, they need more space, all right? So they got more space. We'll talk to Greg on Thursday here on the program. And who knows what will happen by then? The Halibuck of it all, the Quinn Hughes of it all, the Adam Fantilli of it all, the Connor Halibuck of it all. Like, there's still so much to get to here before we get to training camp.

Thanks so much for joining me today. Much appreciated joining us today, me in Philly. We are back on Thursday, as I mentioned, with Greg Bischins. Thanks for listening on your favorite podcast platform. Thank you so much for watching. Please do all the fun stuff that we ask you to do at this point of the show, and that is the subscribes and the likes and the thumbs up and all of it, because it all counts from our little corner of the media universe.

Enjoy the rest of your day, and now that we go off air, like something massive will happen because that's just the way that it works. Enjoy it. We'll talk about it on Thursday. One o'clock Eastern right here on the sheet. to be