The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Robertson’s Future, Ducks on the Clock, and Utah Matches ft. David Pagnotta & Michael Babcock Jr.

Episode Date: July 8, 2026

On today’s episode of The Sheet, Jeff Marek is joined by David Pagnotta of The Fourth Period and Daily Faceoff to break down the latest news, rumors, and movement from around the NHL. Jeff and David dive into the ongoing Jason Robertson situation with the Dallas Stars, the latest trade speculation across the league, key restricted free agents filing for arbitration, and what comes next after Leo Carlsson’s $90 million offer sheet with the Philadelphia Flyers as the Anaheim Ducks face a franchise-altering decision. Could more offer sheets be coming? Which NHL teams are still looking to make moves? Then, Michael Babcock Jr. joins the show after being named the new head coach of the Brantford Bulldogs, discussing his move into the OHL, joining the Bulldogs organization under Spencer Hyman and the Hyman family ownership group, building a winning culture, his coaching journey, and what fans can expect from Brantford this season. Jeff wraps up another packed episode covering the biggest stories shaping the NHL offseason.#TheSheet #NHL #Hockey #NHLRumors #NHLTrades #DallasStars #AnaheimDucks #BrantfordBulldogsSHOUTOUT TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Canadian Blood Services: https://www.blood.ca/Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Okay, here we go. Welcome to this Wednesday, July 8th edition of the sheet. Glad to have you aboard today, whether you are watching live on our DFO YouTube channel or you are listening on your favorite podcast platform. We thank you for your attention, especially you. I see you in the chat right now. We have lots to get to today, including an offer sheet matched. We're going to get to that in a couple of moments here. But here's what's coming up on the program. We're going to kick it off with Dave Pan Yota, DFO Insider from the fourth period, editor-in-chief of that fine publication. He will stop by. Michael Babcock, Jr. is the head coach of the Brantford Bulldogs of the OHL.

I always like talking to new coaches when they join the league. So Mike Babcock Jr. will stop by at the bottom of the hour. We'll talk about Jason Robertson. We'll talk more about Carlson and Anaheim slash Philadelphia. I've got an angle on this one that I want to drop on Dave, so I won't spoil it right now. Also, as we just mentioned up the top of the program, Utah has Mac. The 4.775 offers sheet as submitted by Sunny Metta and the New Jersey Devils. So as we all know, by the nature of offer sheets, now Utah gets the player, keeps the player, and cannot move the player.

He will walk to free agency or a contract extension, which they can sign in January. We'll talk about salary arbitration and we'll talk about the Bulldog season with Michael Babcock Jr. Jackie, let me know when Dave was aboard. In the meantime, a couple of things here. So two offer sheets right out of the gate. And one of them matched. I mean, the Barrett-Ha-Haten one is interesting. If you're Utah, you probably want, well, one, you want Barrett-Haten back to his really good player.

But two, you want Barrett-Haten there at least for one more season until Caleb Dain-YA., T. Jiginla, you know, future third-line. at least when they join the NHL are ready to join the NHL. So it does from that point of view make sense for building your future and having a transition period between two of your future centers and your current one. So I'm sure they're fine with the idea of walking him to free agency and that's more important to them than a second round pick, which would have been the compensation. In the meantime, from New Jersey's point of view, and we've been making this point more so with the Philadelphia Flyers offer sheet on Leo Carlson than anything else. But just talking to

people in and around New Jersey and in and around the devil's organization. Like, fans love this. And fans are looking at Sunny Madder right now and saying, good shot, man. Like, you tried. Like, Sunny Madder right now is doing a couple of things. One, he's correcting the mistakes made by the previous regime. See the Jacob Markstrom trade to the Florida Panthers. And he's also, doing things that the previous administration probably wouldn't have done. And it's indicative of the new way of thinking. It's indicative of the new way of managing. And I think we really are seeing a transition now in the way that the way the teams are handled and the way the teams are managed. What's next for Sunny Meta? Nobody knows. Like one of the interesting things about

meta and Tulski or, you know, Dubus on John Chica is there's no playbook. for how they're going to behave here because they seem, you know, more so than managers before them, quite prepared to use every single tool in the toolbox. No longer are they not going to use a certain screwdriver? Are they no longer going to use a certain hammer when it comes to trying to accrue players? Like, what's the one thing that Eric Tulski always talks about? Whenever you hear Tulski talk about, you know, roster construction and his team and when he knows, the team is settled and all that, he says, you know, there's not a day that I don't work because

it's my job to put the best possible players on this team. And until I have all the best players in the league on my team, I'm not going to stop working. Which is why we should never be surprised what Carolina does. Now we should never be surprised what New Jersey does. And I think you can throw the Philadelphia Flyers into that mix as well. And we'll see what the cascade from the Flyers duck situation is going to be on Friday. I don't think that Anaheim is.

going to respond before the last possible moment that they have to do so. And just so everybody understands why. Like I read a lot online people say, if they're going to match, why haven't they announced it already? And the idea is simple. Philadelphia has put Anaheim in a very difficult financial position here. Not that there's new money in the system here. A couple things, though.

I don't think Anaheim was prepared to spend to the upper limit of the cap, which they will have to do now to keep the semblance of this team together. But also they've reallocated funds in a way that's going to make it difficult, at least in the short term here, for Anaheim to be a competitive team. And Pat Verbeek is going to be forced into some uncomfortable decisions. And you may argue he's already been forced into one uncomfortable decision. And that is the move with Pavel Mitchikoff and the 7.2 AAV. Awesome work by Dan Milstein, the agent there of Goldstar. Happy for the player, but I don't think anybody looked at this season.

and said, oh yeah, he's getting over seven. For sure, he's getting over. But the threat of the offer sheet, the threat of the offer sheet of not being in control of your own finances. Teams take that personally. So back to the original point. Why are they going to wait to the last possible moment?

Because what the Anaheim docks are doing right now with the Philadelphia Flyers is essentially freezing them out of being able to do business. Now, we've seen scenarios where managers will announce, right away. We're matching. We're matching. I think about Darcy McGar and the Buffalo Sabres after the offer sheet was submitted by the Edmonton Oilers with Thomas Vanek. And right away, Darcy Regear of the Sabres said, no, we're matching this thing. We're matching it right away.

Now, a lot of that was to calm down the marketplace. The Sabres had seen a lot of big ticket and really loved players leave the organization. And I think that Regier and the organization wanted to make sure that fans didn't think that, oh, oh, here comes another one. They want to calm everybody down right away. That isn't this. This is now the Anaheim duck saying, we're taking our time and we're freezing you from doing business here at a time where I'm sure you'd like to do business.

And if we don't do this, maybe the Drysdale deal is done. And maybe the Ziggra's deal is already done. But we're not letting you know what you have to work with for the full week. So Friday is going to be a wild one. Friday is going to be a really fascinating one as we stay tuned to find out. whether they match or whether they don't. And I don't think it's a 50-50, right? I think it leans more towards the Anaheim Ducks match.

Like we were talking to Steve Weirier here on the program the other day, former assistant general manager of the Florida Panthers, someone who will work in the NHL again. And I think he was approached at least once this year by a team to come in. But Steve was mentioning, look, like, you got to find a, find the moment where you can get control of the player again. And that moment based on how the bonus structure is structured, and namely when you have to pay the bonuses, you get control of the player next July 2nd. You just got to go through $39 million to get there. But your next

moment of control with Leo Carlson is next July 1st. It ain't cheap. It's really expensive, but that's your moment where you're back in the driver's seat, you have two hands on the wheel, and you have control of the player. But it's going to take one more bonus payment next July 1st. Anyhow, we do have Dave aboard. Dave Panyoda, editor-in-chief of the fourth period. DFO Insider joins me here to talk about a number of different things

that are still sort of hanging out there. And one now has a resolution. And that's Utah and New Jersey. So Utah matches the offer sheet 4.755. The compensation would have been a second round pick, but I'm guessing that the sentiment in Utah is it is more valuable than a second round pick to have Barrett Hayton here in this position while we get T. Jiginla and Caleb DeN.Y.A. ready for their transition into the NHL with Utah,

as opposed to just saying, we'll take the second round pick. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, Jeff, I tend to agree. I mean, you know, with the kids that they have coming up, I mean, I've talked to Bill Armstrong throughout the season and other guys within Utah and they've consistently said their best team, regardless of what moves they make ahead of the deadline in the off season. And obviously they made some additions with Trocheck and Lee. But their best team is yet to come because of the young kids that they've got with the guys you mentioned

at Simashev on the back end. Yep. Bois Dwayne was gone, was part of that Trocheque deal. But they feel at least with that. those three that they still have, that this is going to be a very dangerous club in a few years for a number of years. And to give these guys an easier transition by keeping Hayden, and he's not eligible to be traded this season, and he can't sign an extension until July 1 and on if they do get to that point. But just echoing what you said, they felt more valuable

to be able to get this guy to keep this guy, rather, then move him out for a second round pick. And I understand the move. I thought, you know, initially there was kind of like a broad kind of understanding or at least mindset across the league that they're going to match, excuse me, that they're not going to match this, and Jersey's going to get the player because they tried to trade for him at the draft. Yeah.

And that didn't work. And then as the days progressed, it became clearer that Utah was just dead set on matching. And, you know, they took the full seven days. it prevented, at least within that time period, New Jersey, from pivoting and utilizing that pick as part of another potential offer sheet. And New Jersey will have to pivot regardless, but Utah keeps their guy. You know, it did make sense. Like, we should go a little 360 on this one here. Like from Bill Armstrong now to the player, like it made some sense if you're Barrett Hayden.

Because you look at, you know, to the point about the kids that are on the horizon and the new additions, et cetera, it looked like, you know, when the squeeze happened, he was going to be the casualty. of all of it. Whereas if he's playing in New Jersey, he's the third line center. He's playing behind Jack Hughes and Nico Heshoe. That is his spots. There's no, you know, there's, there's no T. Jiggenla. There's no Caleb Dain-YA coming to take that spot in a couple of years. That is his period. So you do understand that from the player's point of view. But now everybody sings Kumbaya and everyone issues her statements and I'm excited to get going again, et cetera. et cetera, et cetera. We'll see. And also, Jeff, just on that, did you get a sense that maybe, I don't know, just maybe

that wasn't necessarily Baten, Barrett Haten's exact wording that maybe the PR team kind of drummed up that comment because it was worded so eloquently, so so delicately wanting to be back with his teammates and where he wanted to go? I found that a little and a little. entertaining when I saw the press release. I got Bill Armstrong's comments. Totally get it. But then Hayton's. I was like,

hmm, all right. PR side got that one quick. Yes. Statements get a little massaged here and there before we publicize them. From Sunny Metta's point of view here now, as mentioned before he came on, one of the interesting things now with the New Jersey Devils, as, you know,

Sunny tries to do a couple of things. And one, we saw this with the Markstrom deal, sort of clean up the sort of some of the, the, from the previous regime here and try to get this thing back on solid footing. But at the same time,

like, he's also willing to use every tool in the toolbox. He'll do. So, like, the idea that we have any idea, like, what's Sunny Maddie going to do? Oh, he didn't get Barrett Hayton.

Does that mean he's gone fishing for the summer? Like, no. The only thing we do know about him is he ain't going to stop. That's it. No, exactly. I mean, they moved out,

um, Markstrom to Florida and everybody the assumption was well they're going to go after either Bennington or Hill. Hellebuck. Yeah, they're going to get somebody. And the initial I comment or commentary from from Sonny was now we're rolling with with Daw. We're going to give Dawes an opportunity and Allen's here and this, that and the other.

Now, okay, you, you kind of, you'll take that for what it is for the time being until he makes another type of move because you're right. I don't think the New Jersey Devils are just going to sit around after this one and go, eh, we took a shot. Oh, well, let's enjoy the summer, boys. Like, I think this is going to be an interesting offseason based on how things have started. Like, we're going to see, this week is what it is, and everyone's on Leo Carlson watch and what happens there. But for a lot of teams that weren't able to do what they thought they were going to do over a two-week period between draft and first week of free agency. I wouldn't be shocked if we see a few moves happen throughout the summer where it's just like random. Like the 15th, boom, big move. The 21st,

boom, big move. August 1st, holy crap, we got two of them. Like, and so on and so on. I think we're going to have a very interesting summer, which, you know, not everybody enjoys in the league because they want their summers off. But I mean, make sure the Wi-Fi is good at the cottage because I think there's going to be interesting activity. Here's the thing about it too, because, you know, traditionally managers have always said, oh, no, we're working nonstop 24-7. We don't, we don't take a vacation. A lot of times they're talking to the same talking to the same group of people they've

talked to all season long. Any change you're ready? How the kids do? I see her, say you see your son. You're going to Quinnipiac next year. Oh, that's great. Okay, we'll touch base in a couple weeks. Right.

But now, like, it feels now more so than ever. There's different sharks in the water. There's Sunny Meda in the water, right? There's Eric Tulski in the water. And we're going to start to see more and more general managers like this. Ken Hughes. Kent Hughes is another great example. You know, dragged kicking and screaming into this new reality right now are Pat for Beak and Steve Eiserman.

Like, I was thinking about this this morning. I was like, I got to think of maybe to some extent Jim Nill here who's have, who's, and they look like this Robertson thing goes back to last July when we first start. started talking about it and everyone in Dallas looked at me like I had three heads. And here we are on July 8th. Yeah. So here's my question. Because what's the old saying, mistakes will continue until the lesson is learned.

Mistakes will continue until the lesson is learned. Do you think Pat for beak changes? And do you think Steve Iserman changes? Like my initial instinct is not a chance. Yeah. This is this, like these guys are, are dug in on everybody else is wrong, right? Like, oh, I took some time to think about what happened and I decided that everybody else was wrong and I was right.

But this is the way that, like, this is the way that it's moved. Like handling a hockey team is not like Lou Lamarillo just saying no schedule A bonuses for any rookies. I don't care what other teams do. Those days are gone and we got to stop acting like that. Like, I don't know, like, does Verbeek change out of all this? Because we saw him rushed into a move with Minchikov, right? So, like, he's gotten two wax here.

And the Eisenberg story is well told. Can you see either of these guys changing because of what's happened to how they've handled their team? My initial answer is no. I don't know. What do you think? I have two. I have two initial responses to this. One is no agreeing with you.

And the other is they should. because of the way that the league is evolving and has evolved over the last few nights. Now, we're getting a crash course on the evolution of things now, especially with respect to the dollars. But they, I mean, they're in a little bit of different positions, but, you know, without question, they should change. They should evolve more so. You know, this situation in Anaheim, like I get it. You want to be tough. You want to hold your ground.

But sometimes, as long as you're making a decision you're comfortable with at the end of it, you don't necessarily need to dig in as deeply as these guys have, you know, to this point. Because like, exactly to your point, I don't know if they rushed the Minchikov thing, but they didn't give them the dollars they wanted to give them earlier. They kind of bit down and gave them the 7.2 AAV. I can't imagine, I mean, the last couple of days, the talk around Cutter Goce was 15 after the offer sheet. Some people said, don't be surprised if it's even higher. So whether it gets to that on a full term deal, whether it gets to that, obviously we've got to wait and see.

And there's no real rush with Cutter because he's not, he can't be tendered an offer sheet. So he's not vulnerable to that. They can hold their ground and try to create additional space so they're not backed into a bigger. or, excuse me, tighter corner than they already are. Because I think starting Sunday, we started to hear Colorn's name out there, Vitranos name out there. Yes. They're willing to attach a draft pick.

Yes. You know, to take the full pop. Like, where does that go? So there's a lot that the ducks need to do here. And that's why I'm, I'm like, again, they should. And Pat and Solomon and those guys should be able to evolve. I'm really, really curious, Jeff, like how they do this right now, how they, what the pivot is in order to make sure everything works out.

Because there's a pathway. You can move some of those guys out. You still have some decent free agents in your mid-six to pursue. You're probably going to have to give them short-term or one-year deals. But there's a pathway here. I'm just curious to see which route on that path they take. You know what I've been thinking of the last couple of days? I mentioned this with Greg yesterday.

and I still have it sort of noodling around my brain. Again, this is just, we're all trying to imagine what Anaheim could do here. Could you see Robertson for Gochay Trade? Ooh, I never thought of that. Now, the one interesting part of it here too is, Anaheim has been one of those teams that even going back to last summer that Dallas has talked with about Jason Robertson, as you try to gauge what the market's going to look like.

Okay, here's what it would look like, Ottawa. Here's it looks like, and I'm. It's California kid. That's not exactly a secret. Does that become more palatable? If Carter Goce is looking at 15, does that mean it's 12 if he's playing in Texas and not California? Could that, like, I don't know.

It would still involve moving players out. But here we are on July 8th, Robertson's filed for arbitration. The Carlson thing is coming to a crescendo, and we're going to wonder now, now that Mitchikoff is done, what happens with Cutter Goce and is it a lock that he's still a duck Right

Of all of this Yeah because what if he turns What if he turns around and says I want 16? Oh Right? Well all he did was lead the team in points And score 41 goals Yeah exactly

Yeah I get that's the center And he's like Copatar Jr with more offense in the making But I mean 41 goals And Goals are expensive, right? Dave, I'm new to hockey.

Are goals expensive? Okay, I'm just checking. I'll write that down. Goals are expensive, right. Pricey. Ask Jim Neal with Jason Robertson. Like, that's an interesting one. I hadn't really thought of it. I kept, my mind keeps, in terms of Robertson, it keeps veering off into Pittsburgh's direction. I just don't know.

I'm with, did you see Josh Joey's piece today? Really interesting piece in the athletic, but the whole time I'm thinking, what could it deal be like what could like what can pittsburgh offer dallas like i get like i think we all said the same thing okay Pittsburgh picks up the brother okay here we go first it's to rucks now it's the robinson's okay we get it now it's the family act in in pittsburg i just don't know how they do a deal i just i just don't know how that comes that would come together like what could they offer dallas and then that's exact i mean from dallas's perspective like you can just wait but then if depending on if you go to arb and or if you get a one-year deal or whatnot he goes to free agency you kind of screwed

they don't want to mourn this they do not want to mariner this no not a chance exactly so is it a combo of of rust and uh kindle and i don't know i've i've been trying to wrap my head around that exact thing because in that piece josh mentions and i believe because i think we've heard the same thing with respect to Pittsburgh being an option or an attractive piece or attractive option rather for Jason Robertson himself. But if you're the stars, what do you, how you, I don't know, I don't see the package that fits. I would have suggested.

The only thing that I would, the only thing that I could imagine is I go to Detroit and I say, who do you want off the Penguins roster? And then you make that deal with Robertson and then you turn that package into Dylan Larkin. but you're asking Isaac what do you want me to ask for because whatever we asked for is going to you for delmarker and i would have thought i would have thought that prior to july one around draft time i was trying to concoct something there because i thought i thought maverick board could have been part of something too yeah in that but he's a pred now so yeah yeah this this is a hard one to navigate it's not it's not an enviable position that step Weizerman is in or Jim Nill is in right now. If you're Kyle Dubas, you're just going, you figure this out or I'll wait until July of next year, right?

Yeah. I don't, this is, it's a tricky one. And now with Pittsburgh, excuse me, with Anaheim situation, with Cutter, I mean, again, I didn't think of that, but now the brain, the wheels are turning a little bit. Go to Jeefer Robertson. Oh, interesting. Because, yeah, 12, 12, and a half. In Texas.

You had about 15. Yeah. 15 in California They've talked before Okay, so I mentioned Dillon Rakin there a second ago Helena Elliot or Helena St. James, rather, apologies with the note yesterday that he hasn't budged

off of his three teams, Florida, Minnesota and Vegas and the one way I think we can maybe move the story and sort of manage expectations here around all of this I was having a conversation with someone last night about Dill Narkin who said, what's the most points Dillan Larkin's ever gotten a season? And I said, I don't know, let me go look. It's 79.

70 something. He said, what's the most goals he's ever scored? I said, okay, I'm going to look, 34. He said, are the Detroit Red Wings trading a first line center or a second line center? Because I think we're all wondering about the return if there's a deal here. And I think when his fans are thinking, we're getting a return for a first line center. He is a first line center in Detroit. But is he a first line center?

That's a great question. What's the return? Just manage expectations for the return here, everybody. Yeah. I mean, look, I think, and I think other people have reported, I think we've talked about this too. Like, if they wanted to trade him for futures primarily, like a young NHL caliber player with a prospect and a first round picker,

however whatever centerpiece that is in terms of NHL quality or whatever package that is, I think they could have done it. I think they could have done it twice. but it's clearly not what Steve Eisenman's looking for. He wants immediate return. I'm trading away our first line center. I want to bring in somebody to replace him.

You make a great point. 30 and 79, 34 and 79 biggest year or biggest numbers. It doesn't scream first line center to me. No. No, it doesn't. I know you're temporary to say, well, it's Detroit and there's not the supporting cast. It's not like he's playing with, you know, Hyman and Drysidal.

Like it's a little bit different to Detroit. But still, like, and if I'm looking at, right. And if I'm, if I'm Minnesota, Vegas or Florida, I mean,

pretty much forget Florida, but even for the argument's sake, I'm looking at this going, well, I'm not acquiring a first line center. Because we have Eichel in Vegas. You have Parkov in Florida and you have, maybe Minnesota.

to a degree. But if I'm those other teams, I'm going, I'm not paying first line because I already have a first line center. I got a first line center and I'm not paying a first line price. Right. Why would you? That's why I look at some of the proposed returns. And I said, I was like, what am I missing here?

Like this is, this is insane. Okay. Do you have anything more on Lark? I just want to get a couple of things under the wire here with you. Anything more on Lark? No, just sort of add to the next. hypothesizing what many may do, but I mean, again,

futures won't get it done, so it doesn't really matter. UFAs that are still out there. Yeah. To me, Anthony Manta is the fascinating one, especially coming off the season that he just had, the size, the hands, all of it. I know he's been done with injuries going back to the hand injury.

I think we can all remember Jimmy DeVelano in his rookie season in Detroit questioning the long-term viability of Anthony Mant. I remember seeing that. I'm like, it's his first year. He just heard his hand. I don't know if it's going to work out. I'm like, geez, Jim.

Anyhow, injuries have been the story, but what a great season last year with the Penguins. What can he turn this into? And are you surprised that it's taken this long? I thought that was an easy like six times four. Yeah, well, I mean, and that's, I think term has been the issue with him. Because teams are looking at this going, okay, you, you, you got 30 and 60, whatever, in those.

but and you got more responsibility and we can see how you perform with with more responsibility more ice time situationally here's how you thrived but you were healthy for the first time in how long so if we bring you in on a four-year deal or a five-year deal yeah are you going to be banged up for three of those five years or four years or what have you like I think there's still hesitation there with respect to his the longevity of how he can perform based on health. So I think a lot of that has revolved into reverted back to

excuse me term. We'll give you a two year deal. I think there's been some one year deals that he probably could have jumped on. But he wants term. He wants a little more security. And I get that. And talking to some people around the league with him, with Tollivan and with some of the other guys there that are still out there, you know, teams

were still at the time July 1st, 2nd, 3rd, we're still looking at the trade market and seeing how they can fill up other areas. And if it doesn't work, then they'll pivot back and go back to some of the pending UFAs. So these guys kind of have to be patient unless they change their whole mindset. Like Mario Ferreiro, for

example, I go back to him signing a three-year deal in Winnipeg. Like, there were teams, Toronto was one of them. Carolina was another. I'd admitted at one point. And the Ducks, among others. Like, there was a lot of interest. But a lot of those teams said we got to wait like we want you we like you some teams were willing to give

him four years some teams were willing to give him a little bit more money than the four million he got over three but you have to be patient and with patience there are no guarantees yeah people change their mind when they get a little more time on their hands so he didn't want to be in that situation he jumped on the deal with winnipeg like i think those guys could some of the guys available could do that too but on one year deals and i think some of these guys are waiting mantha included to see can I get more term out of this one in a better situation and better environment for me where I can at least come close to replicating

the type of production that I did in Pittsburgh. Okay, last one here for you. All eyes are on Friday. We got through Offer Sheet Volume 1 today with Barrett Hayton. That gets matched. I still feel even though it's a pill that you swallow sideways if you're Henry Samueli, they do end up matching it.

You know, your next pressure point to get control of the contract next July 2nd, at which point you might even look to move the player, depending on how the relationship goes after everything that's gone on here now with the Philadelphia Flyers. Where are you at on the yes versus no? I mean, it's going to be, it's one or the other, and we'll find out on Friday.

Yeah, and you said something there that I wanted to hit on. I'm with you. I think they match. I think the Flyers are preparing for that likelihood. No guarantees, obviously, but I think the flyers are preparing for that. And from what I've been hearing around the league, is that the ducks are likely to match. But the relationship, that is going to need a little bit of mending, a little bit of massaging.

Yeah. Not that it's broken, but it's a little fractured. You know, it's not a clean break. It's not an ugly break. but there's a hairline that needs to be kind of just healed up a little bit. And I think, I mean, I don't know how they go about that, but I think it's something that will need to happen.

Assuming as we expect them to match, assuming they do, then yeah, you're going to have to have a conversation with team and player and say, look, here's where we're at. Let's clear the air. We understand why you did it. we took a stance you called us out on the bluff good for you we want to make this work

but they need to have that conversation if this goes in the direction that we're expecting it to it's not here's the other thing though it's not just that one team we'll close on this one it's not just that one team listen to Pat Verbeek say we'll match any offer sheet

it was four teams that said we don't believe you it's not just Philly. It was three other teams that said, oh really, Pat? How about this? I mean, he just chose to sign the Philadelphia offer sheet. Exactly.

Yeah. There were options. I mean, Minchikov was a little different because there was a team that, to my understanding, didn't officially present an offer sheet, but if they came back from those conversations with the ducks

and said, we're not there, give it to us. There would have been one. again, my understanding, there would have been one. I don't think it was officially presented yet. I think it was a hold on, we're going to go back and circle back. That was not the case with Leo Carlson. It was exactly as you described it.

Four, ban. Yeah. Yep, he picked Philly. Four of these things saying, all right, Pat, let's see the cards. $90 million. We'll find it on Friday. Oh, Samuel Day on Friday.

Samuel a day on Friday. Okay, excellent stuff is always. We'll touch base soon, my friend. You'll be well. Sounds good. Thank you. And I'll make sure my light works next time. I don't know.

This kind of like has like an after dark kind of vibe about it. Like it's like into the summer, a little bit more chill. I kind of dig it, Dave. I kind of dig your whole new. I'm so grainy. Anyway. Dark vibe. That's okay.

We're here for the information. Not for your Dick Tracy like good looks. We're good. Thanks, pal. You'd be good. See you, buddy. Dave Panyoda. DFO Insider, editor-in-chief of the fourth period.

Okay, so lots of two on there. And again, like we all have eyes for Friday to find out and see here whether the Anaheim Ducks match the offer sheet, which many of us expect. Or they lob that one back to Danny Breyer and Keith Jones. Say, here you go deal with your new salary structure. Have fun with Trevor Ziegress and Jamie Drysdale contracts. In the meantime, this is going to be a lot of fun. And really looking forward to talking to this gentleman, who's, I'm always like, I mentioned

off the top of the show, I always like talking to new coaches that come into junior hockey, especially ones that have as interesting a background as Mike Babcock, Jr. does. As a player, as a coach, I'm going to ask him about some prospects for the Anaheim Ducks here coming up in a couple of seconds, where he was the

assistant coach of the Anaheim, the San Diego Gulls, H.L affiliate of the Anaheim Ducks last season. A pleasure to welcome to the program here for the first time, Mike Babcock, Jr. Mike, first of all, how are you today? I understand there's some nuptials on the horizon too. So you're you're taking time out of your busy schedule to talk hockey. What's wrong with you?

You know what? I got security clearance. So everything's all good. You got the hall pass to talk to me for a for a couple of minutes here today. Well, listen, like there's a, there's a few things that I want to go over with. And especially I want to talk about the Bulldogs and the team you're inheriting here in Brantford. But there's one player that I really want to ask you about. And you had him in Sandy. Diego last year. And when he was drafted, he was one of my favorite players in that draft. And as we look at Anaheim and wonder like, okay, so like who's, who's going to pop up? Who's got a chance to make it onto this back end? You know, they let go of Goudis, but, you know, you had, I don't know, Goudis Light,

one of the hardest hitters in the draft class when he was drafted, Steanne Solberg, who hits for keeps, his hits on Nils Aymann last year and Abed, was one of the hardest hits in the American League last year. What can you tell us about this young man? Well, I think with Steyon, he's a fantastic kid. Like, just absolutely loves life, loves hockey, wants information, and wants to be coached. He was an absolute pleasure to work with. Tons of skill, very good pock mover.

I think last year for him, there was a learning. curve in the American League as it is for all players. And I thought I thought he had a really good year. Obviously there are some things that you can tighten up and things like thought, but I think he's situated obviously to have a really good camp

and then worst case scenario, he's back in the American League and he's ripening up even more. And I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but those decisions are way over my pay grade. But as a kid and as a hockey player, they got something there for sure because he's

he's a fantastic person and he's a really, really good off player. He really is. Mike, we're going to ask you to reconnect. We kind of got like a little sort of an audio issue here. So we're going to get Mike back here in a couple of seconds. Stan Solberg is someone who's drafted in the first round a couple of years ago, by the way, for those that don't follow it.

And as we're starting to see more physicality come into the NHL, specifically on the back end, where there's a lot of players now in the NHL where, you know, more so than in the last 10 years, you've got to keep your head up when. they're out there. Solberg is one of those guys. He's the hit for keeps guy and he's not shy about snapping his mitts afterwards. Anyhow.

So we're going to be joined by Mike here again in a couple of moments. New head coach, the Brenford Bulldogs of the Ontario Hockey League, former assistant coach with the San Diego Gulls. And also work with both the St. Louis Blues and the Ottawa Senators in various capacity skills coach with St. Louis. would have worked with, with Clos Julien. So curious about those experiences were like with him. And worked very briefly with the Ottawa senators.

And he's, you know, he's widely been considered by, you know, a number of people. His name has been sort of out there in that sort of wave of next great young coaches to go through, you know, junior hockey and do a head coaching position in the American League and then on to the NHL. Mike's name has been out there for a long time, too. and there's also, he's a former player as well. Miramack and before that played in the USHL with Fargo. I got a piece of video here that I want to show him as well. Going back to 2013, we get Mike back on the program here in a couple of seconds. Looking forward to, and you know what we should ask him about too is Roger McQueen,

who after his year with Providence last year played, I want to say seven or eight games with the Gulles, 10th overall pick, Anaheim Ducks, real nice player there. A couple of other things. just of note here as we wait for Mike to get back on and we'll solve the audio issue. The other name that I wanted to get to with Dave, when just kind of ran out of time after talking about Anthony Mantha is, you know, what's the future here with Pat Kane?

And I think the emotional, I think the emotional tug is probably finish up the career with the Buffalo Sabres. Would that make some sense for the Buffalo Sabres? Exit, Tuck, Intercane. That could be an option there. There's also the sort of sentimental, sentimental, wrap it up with Chicago where the whole thing began. Although I don't think,

whenever I hear that, I think to myself, I don't think right now that Chicago or Kyle Davidson are in the let's do something sentimental phase of this rebuild. This has all got to be about winning games here. That's what it's got to be about. Mike, we got you back. Thanks so much.

Please want to just pick up a sort of a final thought there on Solberg before we let you go? Yeah. No, I think like I said, I can't reiterate enough how good of a kid he is. And he's a really good hockey player. I think he's a jam in terms of where they have in the organization. I know they think of him really highly. But there's something there for sure.

I think he's going to be a really good pro. Is the accent always going to be on physicality with him? I mean, that's the thing that just popped in the draft year. You know, I think like he got better as the year went on, not like running away from good ice to make that play and letting it come to him for lock better terms. But like he's got he's got bite and he's got an edge. And I think it's way easier to steer the reins on that than to like try to get a guy to do it in my experience. But yeah, there's again, there's something there for sure. He plays with a lot of like tennis skill.

I think I know exactly what you're saying. I've told the story before. One of my favorite stories, Pete DeBore when he was coached in the kitchen arrangers. made a trade for Steve Downey. Downey's playing in Peterborough. And Downey's, he's tough, he's aggressive and a lot of penalties, suspensions and all that. I remember talking to Pete and saying like, this guy is going to take suspension. He's going to hurt kids. It's going to be. And you guys are a Memorial Cup team.

Like, why are you bringing in Downey? And he said, you know, like, Jeff, respectfully, like, you're not a coach, bud. Like, I'm a coach. And I'll tell you, as a coach, I would rather have to tame a tiger than paint stripes on a kitty cat. So I can't paint stripes on a kitty cat, but I can always calm someone. down. I just can't build someone up. You know what I'm getting at? Yeah, no, for sure. And I think, again, like, Steyon, he's a young kid, right? Like in terms of his path into pro hockey. So I think he's going to, with more experience

and more games played and different things like that, he's going to find different spots to find those spots. And then when he gets to the NHL, he might have to, you know, not start over again, but he's going to be excited to do that and show what he's got. And I think it's not no different than whether someone's in an interview process or kids coming into camp, whatever it is. Like, if you can get them as comfortable as possible early on, they're going to have the best chance to show themselves. And I think, you know, again, Ceyon's a fantastic kid.

He'll keep any roomies in light to say the least. And I'm excited to watch his career path. Okay, I want to show you something. This is a piece of video from 2013. Zach, if we have this one queued up, let's show Mike. Mike, we're trying out wrapping up this weekend. How have things been going for you so far? I haven't been not too bad, you know, just kind of getting my legs back under me.

I feel like I've been skating well and stuff. You know, some of the executions getting there, you know, just two skates of days. We're getting there. So, I mean, hopefully, you know, turn around for us. Did you know in 2013 that that guy was going to be a coach one day? No, and I think that was my first interview ever, so I'm glad that we're 13 years later, and I'm a little bit more polished. I was so scared to get sent home.

I don't know how else to say that. And yeah, I was doing everything I could. They grabbed me right after practice. And I had no idea why. And I was just trying to do everything not to get sent home. So I was trying to get through that as quickly as possible. Give us like before we get to the coaching here. Like I've always like there's I look at someone like what's a good example?

Mackenzie, who's the general manager of the Kitchener Ranger, son of Bob McKenzie. And I used to watch, whenever I go to St. Mike's to go watch St. Mike's, to go watch Andrew Cagliano. Mike was on the team, too, so he couldn't help but watching Mike too. And, you know, he got as high as the American Hockey League. But he was one of those guys that I look at and say, like, that was as high as he was probably going to go. But he got everything out of his talent, right?

Like there's a level that everyone can rise to. Obviously not everyone can play in the NHL. But I look at him and I say, that guy probably walked away from playing hockey without any regrets. Because he worked for every inch of ice. That guy worked so hard. And he got the answer. And the answer to the question is, you know, how good am I? He got that answer.

Because you only get that when you're involved and committed 100%. Describe your hockey career. Like did you feel? you left something back or like you're like okay you know what that's as high as i was going to go no no i think i think i think i rinsed the towel out for a lot better terms like uh it's interesting talking you know about you know mike's path and things like thought too but uh like for me you know uh i alluded to a little bit in that interview like i was drafted to a team in junior um i was an affiliated player and then i was brought in to play games at the end of that year and they ended up

having too many guys like at the end and so I got cut or I got cut I got set to Fargo and then from there they just didn't really promise me anything they just said like hey you got to come and make the team and so I went through a lot of adversity early on in that camp and that set me up for the rest of my life to be completely honest and so from there you learned how hard you needed to work you knew different ways I guess to survive for a lot better terms in terms of of rounding out your game and finding spots where you could pick up work and finds different things that way. And so that set me up for being an impactful player on the teams we had in junior. And then that really set me up for college. When I went into college, a guy by the name of Clayton

Jardine, who's an assistant coach in Red Deer right now or was his past year, he was leaving school and they needed a third line center. And so I kind of just went right into that spot. And I held that for four years, essentially. And then that set me up to go. you know, play overseas. And, you know, I knew I probably wasn't getting an American league opportunity in that aspect, but I wanted to have that experience where you could go somewhere, you know, overseas and, you know, find a good spot that you could be impactful as well. And I ended up being a, you know, a role player for a team over there in France. And we won the French Cup, which is kind of like they do a March Manist style bracket for a lot of better terms between

all four leagues in France. And, then you play one extra game a month, but they make a big presentation out of it. Like we played our tribal for a lot better terms in Paris. And it was great. And then interesting enough, that was the COVID year where it hit right at the end. And so our season ended very abruptly. And for me, there was, it was kind of trying to figure out what to do next. I had always been joked with by teammates that like you're just going to come.

coach and I wanted to make sure that I could, you know, try something else for a lot of better terms and see if you could like that too. I always knew I had a passion for hockey and I knew I was, you know, that could potentially be something, but I wanted to, I guess, form my old path. And so I wanted to try something else and I sold software for about 10 months and I, you know, what, it really wasn't for me. Yeah. You know, it was also, and maybe it wasn't a fair shake. too again it was COVID so I was working remotely from home there wasn't a ton of going on in terms of like friend facing things and so um but what was good about is I found that that was something that I crave for a lack better terms and so being around people and feeding off people's energy and

things like that and there was an opportunity um you know to to go do my master's and certain coaching and uh I was pretty quick to hop on that um but uh I knew I basically knew as soon as I had my first day coaching that I was going to be a lifer. I'm always curious about that. And I find it always interesting that that transition phase between when you sort of stop playing and then you get into something else in hockey, you know, Don Cherry sold cars. And he would always say, I only sold one. And my wife was like, you got to go back and find something else to do in hockey. Ken Holland, I believe it was vacuum cleaners than Ken used to sell.

But when his career as a goaltender wound down. Okay, so as you as you take this job with the Bulldogs in the OHL, like how would you describe your style of coaching? Like you're being interviewed by Spencer Hyman for the position. Jay McKee is off to Hamilton to coach AHA affiliate for the Allenders. Like what's that process like? And how do you like how do you sell yourself to Hyman? Well, I think I think you, again, you try to sell what you're good at.

So for me, I think I'm a really effective communicator. I think the messaging and the detail is clear and concise. It's very block and wait for a locker bear terms. That's how I was taught. And that's, again, from a former player's perspective, that's how I like to learn. I didn't want to know the thesis behind it. I just wanted to know the answer and the quickest way to get there. And so that's how I've tried to teach from there.

I think the personable portion was something that was sold on to. but I think the willingness to do things the right way. There's a certain style, I believe, we need to play in order to have success. I think it's very evident when you watch the NHL playoffs, particularly the final four teams. And then obviously the Stanley Cup final when you just watch how hard the guys play and how much depth you need to have in order to have success. So that was something I tried to push across in my interview process.

You know, we talked a lot. I got, you know, it was an extensive interview. But, you know, obviously, I just wanted an opportunity to compete for the job. I've been through processes where, you know, you feel like you wish you could have had the opportunity to show your stuff for a lack of better terms. And so for me, you know, I was just really grateful for the opportunity to do that. And then even more grateful for the opportunity to have the ability to, you know, coach the team. Where do you think hockey is at right now? I mean, you know, UCO Hocus, coaches the kitchen arrangers, we'll see.

may end up behind an American League bench by the end of the summer here. So his big thing is positionless hockey. I don't think it's necessarily just his, but he seems very much in tune with that. And you look at how the Kitchener Rangers won the Memorial Cup last year. That is how they played. And that was always his message to them. A, does that resonate with you?

And how do you, like, do you coach based on the personnel you have? Or do you coach based on this is where the game is at? So this is how we have to play, guys. well i think it's a combination of both um frankly you have to play towards your personnel but there's i think you have to find a way to show guys where they need to stand properly uh for a lack of terms i think um there's a knock on structure that it makes things too robotic but in my opinion structure and predictability um you know allowed for creativity uh and hockey sense to come out And so I think it's no different than any kind of well-oiled machine.

If you can trust this person to do their job and this person do their job and so on and so forth all around and you can get five guys connected all over the ice, you're going to, again, you're going to have the pocketway more. You're going to be able to make reads in real time quicker. And so for me, I think that's really important. In terms of position list, I think there is a little bit to that too. like obviously we'd like you know certain aspects where the deer maybe closer to the net or uh you know i don't know if you want your your d being f1 on the forecheck for a lot of better terms but we you have to be free you know you have to be free flowing i think um again that predictability and

we're five guys know what's going on like the left winger just doesn't have to know what the left winger is supposed to do but if he knows what everyone else is supposed to do on the ice then that allows for more reaction-based. And I think obviously hockey is a, it's a game of reaction and chain reactions from that regard, right? And so I'll have a game plan, the other team have a game plan, and then the hockey game is going to break out. And both sides are allowed to try, which is the frustrating part of everything.

The other team's allowed to try to. You know, it's funny hearing you talk about the left wing or just doesn't do left, like, it's not table hockey here. Like, I mean, I'm curious, like, what's the one, is there one like old school saying about a certain player that you just kind of look at? shake your head. But for the longest time, it was like,

if you're a winger and you can't touch the boards with your stick, you're out of position. It's like, this is this table, like some of the old rules from like a million years ago,

from coaches from a bygone era. Is there anything that you've heard that you're just like, I can't believe that we used to coach like this? You know, probably, I can't really think of it off the top of my head. I think,

um, there's some rules I think you can have. like over the ice to get guys again back to their proper spots i think um you know there's certain guys they're going to feel more comfortable in certain positions um you know so i think on rotations or stalls you can kind of particular in the d zone maybe you can get guys back to where they're supposed to be whether that's like the left one can go back to the left wing and switch with the center or maybe there's two d in the corner and one d wants to switch and you can get them back like i think there's that portion but in terms of um you know saying that

is sticking out of my mind. I don't really have one at this point. The other one was last minute of play. Even if you have the puck behind the net in the offensive zone, you never direct the puck towards your own net. Not even a pass out in front. I think that might have been one of Ken Hitchcock's.

I mean, Todd Warner told me he got benched a game once because he did that. They're up three goals and he made a pass from behind the net. It's last minute of play. You never direct the puck at your own. Anyway, it's a different, different, different era. A couple of things for the Bulldogs here, too,

specifically with this program, like Brian Brooks on every week here on the show. Have you had a chance to meet the new senior advisor for the Ranford Bulldogs, Brian Burke yet? And if so, how was that? You know what? I have. I actually, I saw him standing in the hallway

when we were in town when I was with St. Louis. He was down below kind of in Toronto. And so I like double-take. I was like, well, that's Brian Burke. I'd better go introduce myself. So I did, and he probably wouldn't remember that. But I went over and talked to him. And then we had our draft, which was a tremendous event by the OSL, the

fantastic job in Kingston. And so he came into that. He sat at the table. And it was great. He was a pleasure to talk to. Obviously, he's a legend in the game. And he's done so many good things to help advance the game as well. And so I've really enjoyed my time with him.

And I tried to tell him on the way out. I just said, hey, listen, like, anytime you're down, please come into the coach. room. Come hang out. It'd be great to see it. And so I'm looking forward to getting to know him a little bit better here. One of my favorite things that Brian told me he used to do when he was general manager in

the NHL is at the draft. Every time they were going to draft a defenseman before he went up to the stage, he would always say, all right, boys, we're drafting a defenseman, bring the crayons. And then he go up and he'd make the, he'd make the pick. Brian was a forward as you well know. Listen, anything that we should know about you or the Bulldogs for next season. You know what? I'm big on keeping, you know, all the noise outside and just controlling everything we can in our locker room

in terms of just being processed during every day. So like when I think about our team, we're going to be extremely direct. We'll be very work oriented. But we're going to play with a ton of skill and have some fun too. for me, my whole job as the coach is to make sure that the player knows I have their back. And that's something I've tried to stress when I've called every single person so far. I also know that from the players side of it, the hardest thing to do is to trust the coach right off the bat. And that's an earned thing.

So I'm, again, starting since June 5th when I got hired, I've been working every day to try to build the trust with players moving forward. And so I'm really excited to get to camp. I'm excited to, you know, show the league what we got. And we'll just, we'll focus on having a really good first day of camp, then we'll let everything else sort itself out. You know, hearing you talk like that about players, you know, I remember Rick Bonas having a conversation with him, and we were talking about his days as an assistant coach with Tampa.

And like, Victor Headman is like naturally suspicious of all coaches. Like, doesn't, like, this is historic. Like, just doesn't trust coaches. And I remember I asked, I was like, how did you get through to Headman? And he said it was we had so many conversations, we just go for walks and none of it had to do with hockey. He said, I had to build up a trust with Victor Hedman before I could even begin to talk about hockey with them. I had to get him to trust me. And that meant a lot of walks and talks where we didn't talk about hockey at all.

Does that resonate with you? 100%. And I think that's like that's why Bones has been so good and why he's done such a great job. Like in coaching, it's really, at the end of the day, you have to separate the person and the player because you have to make decisions that are best for the organization. But you can't get the most out of the player unless the person knows that you're coming from a place of significant care and love for a lot better term. So, you know, I'm a big believer that like when you come to the rink, you should be able to find joy because it's a kid's game. It doesn't matter if you're 16 or if you're 42 playing in the league. Like you should be able to come to the ring, find joy.

and that should be your sanctuary because it's what we love to do. But I also believe that you should be able to leave the rink and you should be able to find joy too. So in Brannford, you know, we're building teams to help win championships, but we're also building championship people. And so we have, you know, a group of teenagers and young adults that are in a formative age, obviously. And so we're trying to, you know, better the next generation in that regard. And so we're going to build, you know, people the right way, who treat people the right way on and off the ice and in the community and want to be role models.

And I think, you know, every kid, every player can remember a portion when they were that kid and they were meeting someone that they looked up to too, right? So that's going to be really important. That's been synonymous through everyone I've talked to in the organization as well. But again, you have to, you have to know that the player, like, I do believe that the player wants to be coached. but they have to know why and they have to know that you care about them too. And so there's a proper way to handle everything. And for me, again, it's just been that building that trust piece. And so I like to know what's going on with guys.

I like to know when their families are in town so I can go say hi. You know, I like to know what's going on at home. And you know what, they'll tell you as much as they want to tell you. But I think over time, guys will get more comfortable. And then kind of no different way I talked about early on. Then, you know, you'll get the best version of them for lack of your terms. Okay. my last question, I'm going to totally go on a fishing trip here.

And I'm going to see if there's anything there. So your last season playing, you played in France. And we saw a pretty spirited game between Team Canada and France at the Olympics this year, highlighted by a fight with Tom Wilson and a guy of the name of Pierre Crinand, who would have played in the league when you were there. Do you have any memories of Pierre Crinand? Well, I'm not a big guy by any means. like I'm like five nine so a lot of guys including uh Pierre I kind of went up and looked like

this too so um but I don't have any I don't have any stories um I probably put it in his corner and tried to you know run him or go get it like for a Hacobar returns to give him a cross check in front of the net that's just kind of how I played but uh but no I don't have any I don't have any stories no memories of Pierre Crino like because the the people that I asked about who played with him like they're They were like, to be on, to be blunt, and I mean as an insult, like, they were stunned. Like, what is, what is he, what is he, what is he thinking? Like, he's, he's a big strong guy, certainly, but he's not, like, he, he kind of went snappy on, on Tom Wilson.

It's like, he doesn't do that in France. Well, it's, it's a different league. There, I think there was one fight the whole time. I, maybe two fights the whole time I was over there in that season. So they, yeah, that wasn't a part of the game. Now in saying that everybody's wires probably cross, and I think, but,

no, like, I remember being a very good player. I remember him being, like, their team was really, really good. But,

you know, it was interesting watching those games and following. And I went through the roster and just tried to see like, okay, how many guys would I have played with? And there was, you know, some guys that were younger that were really good players.

I had the privilege to work with Alexander Taxi in San Luis. And, yeah, and he was, he's on, unreal scale. Like he's fantastic that way. And he's a really good kid.

So I was happy for him that way. And, you know, I'm happy for the year that he had in Montreal as well. But yeah, it was cool to go through the rosters and just kind of see because now it's like, I'm 31. So everyone's kind of in that they're either right in the middle of their prime or they're not playing anymore kind of thing. So, yeah, it was interesting to see. Awesome. It's been a lot of fun, Mike. Best of luck this weekend.

Best of luck next season with the Bulldogs. It's been a pleasure. Thanks, pal. Yeah, I appreciate it. Thanks so much. All right, there is Mike Babcock, Jr., the head coach of the Brantford Bulldogs of the Ontario Hockey League. One thing I want to get here quickly, and I'm so glad that they are aboard. Canadian Blood Services, quickly before we get to Zach and his thoughts on all things Newsie and all things Babcock, Jr.

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Book at blood.ca or through the Give Blood app or call 1-3-8 to donate. 1-3-8 number two donate. Philly. Beckoning. Oh, you got your Bulldogs hat on.

Did you have that on earlier? Oh, yeah. Or just wear that for the other. Had it on the whole time. Babcock interview. Nice touch. Nice touch. What did you think of the Babcock interview?

Sounds like his dad, too, hey, has the same cadence. Like you can tell. It's like when I was a lot of it. Patrick Burke comes on. It's like, oh yeah, you can tell.

Like that sounds like Big Berkey. Yep. That was the first thing I was going to say is when he started talking. I was thinking about how we always talk about Patrick Burke and you can't tell the difference between him and Big Berkey. Yeah. It was very similar with Mike Babcock Jr. to Mike Babcock,

senior in that sense. But I just found it interesting his perspective on what he's got to do as a coach and like how he's going to approach these guys when you were asking about destructive. Sure, because I think that's one of the big things we've talked about. And, you know, we're looking at a guy like, you see a hocus who could be jumping into a role here potentially with the Marley's. Like, that's who Nick has penciled into that spot at Albergas, who he wants to take that. I can see that. Right.

Yep. I think we all can. The first conversation you and I ever had, I don't know if I've said this on the show or if this was off air, but you and I, before we started doing the show, you called me and asked me if I had ever heard of UCA hocus. I did. a YouTube video and you told me to go watch UCA Hocus talk about positionless hockey. And you're like, who is this loser calling me about UCA Hocus?

Like, get bent. What the hell is this show going to be about? They were talking on the NHL here, man. I'm talking about positionless hockey. But that was the first introduction I had. And then you brought that up there to Mike and you kind of alluded to the fact that, you know, it's changing.

And positions aren't the same as what it used to be. You know, when I was playing minor hockey, it was you're the right winger, your ass basically touches the right boards in your defensive zone the entire time and you go up and down the wall. Then that is not how you play anymore. But beyond that, it was about the personal side of the game too, because without unlocking the personal side of the game, you don't unlock what happens on the ice and how the player evolves and all those things kind of tying together where one does not happen without the next. And then into the structure side of things.

You can't get the most of guys in the structure. And you can't get the creative. side of the of the player without having a structure and just how it all intertwined. It was just very interesting to hear him talk about. Absolutely. And getting married this weekend. So we wish Mike all the best there and next season with the Bulldogs. You have a thought on the offer sheet, the Utah one first of all.

And then we'll get to the Anaheim one, which is it's just been a content factory. Like that's the sidebar to offer sheets. They're just content factories right away. one gets dropped and it's like, bam, this is, it's because it's impossible not to have a position on every single issue involved in it. What do you think of Utah is today? Easy match, easy match for Bill Armstrong?

Yeah, I think so. You tell me if I'm off base on this, my interpretation of this would have been that, yes, okay, they like the player. Obviously, that's probably not the number that they wanted to be at on Barrett Hayton, and that's why that this got to that point, and that's why the offer sheet in theory works, right?

But my deduction was whatever deal that they had with New Jersey that they were working on at the draft that we've all heard about, it probably had to have been worth more than what the offer sheet compensation was. That's my initial takeaway on that one, right? Because I think that there's probably a world where Utah looks at this and says, we'll accept that. because we don't want to go to that value, and we know what Utah is looking to do here

with some of the big game hunting, if that's maybe the way to phrase this thing throughout the summer. They probably just said, you know, what the player's worth more than what that second round pick compensation would be, and we could have got more if we had traded him earlier, so we're going to soak this. I just,

that poison pill is a very smart play by Sunny Meda, because it makes the next year very interesting. Because Barrett Hayden walks to Free Agency, you know that there's probably a little bit of a sour taste in both parties' mouths based on how this thing happened, but I don't see a world in which Bill Armstrong walks away with nothing. So again, more content for us here, Jeff, where maybe this is a contract that's traded before Free Agency

or at Free Agency next year where something can get moved. Because you could do some type of sign and trade or something as of July 1 next year, right where they say, hey, we want more out of this. Maybe you want some more money. Maybe we help each other out. Because they have to wait till July for this to take place for him to be traded. It's a year.

So here's, well, he's an unrestricted free agent then, right? I guess if you walk him to it. So yeah, you're walking him to it. Yeah, you're right. You're walking him to it. So here's the other sidebar to this. He doesn't have, you know, he didn't have a contract when the offer sheet dropped. this is like some legal tampering.

Now he knows exactly how the New Jersey Devils feel about him. That's the other sidebar to offer sheets. You've had the conversation about like, okay, where can you be used and how much we're willing to pay you? And Sonny Meda just, you know, put a couple of extra bucks in his jeans. And hey, thanks, Sunny. I don't think that. If there was ever soft tampering versus hard tampering,

I think we could classify this one maybe as soft. Yeah. Okay, really splitting hairs. By the way, how has your life been the last 24 hours knowing that Daniel Alfredson will be on your bench? Well, I have been enjoying myself on social media reading what Sends fans and say. You want to know an extra wrinkle here to that got, this is, Sense fans listening are going to be wanting to strangle me, and I completely understand that.

But as a least in, I have to take a moment to revel in this because it's great. The follow-up piece, which I'll just. preface with on this, Jeff, is that since fans are going to need a feel good story here, and I think Clodrew helps that, but I don't think it's enough. I think they need a little more in the summer. Because yesterday morning, approximately, like, three

hours before Daniel Alpherson was announced that he was departing, Ottawa for Toronto. The mayor of Ottawa put out a tweet, and they announced that they were giving a commemorative coin to Daniel Alpherson for embodying what an Ottawa

citizen should be. And, you know, paraphrasing, but they've talked about how much he means to the city and the community and the Ottawa senators and how much work he's done in Ottawa, only for a couple of hours later, him to go to the Toronto Maple Leafs of all teams. So for me as a leaf sin, I kind of just sat there and said, this is, this is, you know, like a birthday gift that you've given to me here for me to enjoy over the next little while because just for a rivalry's sake, Jeff, it's incredible theater. What was the award? It was a commemorative, it was a commemorative coin that they awarded to Alpherson. They put out pictures and all this stuff to thank Daniel Alpherson for

everything he means to the city of Ottawa. And I, it doesn't change anything that it was done. It doesn't change anything that he's already done. No, but the timing is impeccable. Certainly awkward. But it doesn't change anything about what he did for the city of Ottawa or that organization. As we celebrate Ottawa's 200th birthday, we're recognizing the people who have helped build our city and shape our community. That's why we created the Ottawa 200 commemorative coin. It was an honor to present the coin to Daniel Alfredson. And then it's a bunch of pictures of them giving the coin to Alfredson.

And then they go on and talk about him in Ottawa and his playing career and what he makes of him. Timing is. everything. Look, I'm well aware I'm an asshole for bringing this up and having so much fun. I thought you're going to say, like, come on, his kid goes to St. Andrews College. Of course he's going to go closer to his kid. I'm going to say something like that. I'm conveniently leaving that out because I just want to make it like, oh, he chose to come to the Maple Leafs.

You know what was really, really weird in all of this, though? What's that? The Leafs tweeted a picture today and they said, teammates and just like teammates, period. And it was a picture of Sundin, beside Alfredson, added a whole star game or something, both kneeling down, Sundin in his Leafs gear,

Alfredson in his son's gear, and I was like, yeah, this is kind of weird. This whole thing is weird. Trache coaches the Rangers. Like, we've seen weird stuff before. But this one, like in, in this province, this one's up there.

Yep. It's up there. This one's really up there. It's going to be, it's going to be weird, unless he's a sleeper agent. Michael Ann Lowell. I did see a photo from Travis Yost tweeted a picture yesterday, and it was the send rolling a Trojan horse into the elite fan base. And they said, we've got him again.

And you fell for it, Toronto. You fell for it, Toronto. Okay, so we're back on the air tomorrow. 1 o'clock Eastern for more as we inch closer and closer to and official decision by the Anaheim Ducks on whether they will match or whether they will walk away from the Philadelphia Flyers offer sheet for Leo Carlson. And who knows what will pop up between now and then, a signing, a trade, maybe both. We shall see. We'll document it all tomorrow here, 1 o'clock Eastern on the sheet.

To everybody listening on your favorite podcast platform, we thank you for it from everyone here. Watching on our DFO YouTube channel, thank you and everyone in the chat. As always, you are awesome. We'll talk to again tomorrow. more news as it happens And as we like to stay around these parts When news breaks we fix it Talk to tomorrow