The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Ron Francis Steps Down ft. Alison Lukan & Greg Wyshynski

Episode Date: April 9, 2026

Jeff Marek and Greg Wyshynski break down the end of the Ron Francis era with the Seattle Kraken and what went wrong for the NHL’s newest franchise. The discussion dives into why Francis’ approach as general manager — often focused on playing it safe and avoiding big swings — ultimately left the Kraken stuck in the middle as a team full of complementary players but without a true star.The guys debate whether Seattle’s expansion strategy failed compared to the immediate success of the Vegas Golden Knights, and how the league’s evolution since Vegas entered the NHL made the Kraken’s path far more difficult. They also discuss key roster decisions, including letting Morgan Geekie walk, the lack of a true number-one defenseman, and the organization’s ongoing search for a franchise cornerstone.Plus, Marek and Wyshynski examine what comes next for Seattle with Jason Botterill taking over hockey operations, why the team may need to reset its roster through trades and the draft, and what lessons the Kraken should take from their first five seasons in the NHL.Subscribe to the Daily Faceoff YouTube channel for more NHL analysis, breaking news, and conversations around the biggest stories in hockey.#NHL #ConnorMcDavid #BuffaloSabres #NewYorkRangers #TorontoMapleLeafs #NewJerseyDevils #SeattleKraken #JeffMarek #GregWyshynski #DailyFaceoff #HockeyLeave a voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/TheSheetEmail us: [e-mail] TO OUR SPONSORS!!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼 Ninja: https://www.sharkninja.ca/ninja-crispi-pro-6-in-1-countertop-glass-air-fryer-rose-quartz/AS101CRS.html?utm_source=Meta&utm_medium=Paid+Social&utm_campaign=H1NinjaCrispi&utm_content=NinjaEN&dwvar_AS101CRS_color=cdb9b8Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@FNBarnBurner🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoffReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm tempted just to play this clip right away to you. I think I'm going to do it. Welcome to the sheet, by the way. April 9th. It's a Thursday. We are still here. Quick update. We are leaving, Zach and I, along with Amel, to go to both Penticton and Colona.

But on Saturday, I know. I love BC. Dude, I love BC so much. So I can't wait to get there. It's going to be a lot of fun. But anyway, we're going to go to stop in Vancouver. We can't make that happen. Penticton and Colona.

Why do you need Vancouver when you've got Petitton and Colona? friend. It's Penticton. Fred Harbison land. Ladies and gentlemen, the Penticton V's. And then I'm going to talk to people of the cloner rockets. Okay, I want to play something here for you because you kind of popped a little bit when I mentioned the name. And then, lo and behold,

our friends at Leif's Morning Take, Nick Colberga, Pacific, as we see in the Atlantic, actually talked to this gentleman alongside Jay Rose Hill and brought up what we talked about. This is from Leif's Morning Take, Greg Wischinski. Watch this. Or listen to this, I guess, if you're listening on podcasts.

Johnny, in essence, you're describing yourself. You ever thought about getting in the management or what? What's the deal here? Because Bet365, our friends put out odds. You weren't on that odds board, but Rosie was on there for some reason. So what do you think of management? Rosie, for what jobs, Rosie going to do? Do you give you the GM or the president?

Let's just stop. You want to turn this organization into a laughing stock? You guys just keep on going. But already is. Already is. Johnny management. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, obviously.

I would be curious to explore that. I love my job. I'm not looking to change it. But I think anyone who's been around hockey a long time would be curious to see what it would be like to be involved in management to see if they could be successful. I think I would be able to bring ideas

and execution that would help an organization. So yeah, I'm not actively out there trying to put my name involved in anything. But yeah, I'd be lying to you if I said I haven't thought about it and, you know, chatted about it casually on occasion for sure.

Greg? Here's the thing I love about guys like that, like Mike Johnson man. He starts off by saying, obviously not something I'm really considering. Love what I do. Now, let me read my LinkedIn page to you. Like, it's a sense of transparency.

This man wants to work in the front office. I just happen to have my resume handy with references. Exactly. No, but your point the other day was completely right, which is that he is. He has a skill set. to be, yeah, he has the skill set to translate the, what the

analytics department is saying to the up and ups, be it a, you know, president of hockey operations, GM, or you know, ownership. He'd be great at that. He's a humble man. But, uh, talented man. But it's like, oh, I've thought about it a time or two.

Hey, Greg, have you ever thought about directing a Star Wars movie? I don't know. Maybe, maybe once or twice. I thought maybe I could. Of course. Of course you thought about it, Mike. Yeah. No, I thought of you and I saw that clip today.

Anyhow, we got a big show coming up here. Another executive has bit the dust and we'll talk all about it here in a couple of moments. The Blueprints is powered by Fandul. Download the app today and play your game on Fandul. Coming up on the program, Greg Wysinski is here from ESPN and ESPN.com. We will talk about all things Seattle as well with Allison Lucan. That's another name that popped up that you mentioned. You want to talk about that middle ground between general manager and ownership.

There's one. Well, she'll talk to us about Ron Francis stepping down. What now in Seattle could there be any more dominoes to fall? And what do they do this offseason now that they've taken this thing into the ditch. And now Ron Francis is X of the Seattle Cracken. In the meantime, your thoughts on Ron Francis. Ron Francis, the press release from LeWiki was very, very, amicable and presented in a way that gives Ron Francis a very soft landing here. As I understand it, Jason Bottle has done the job all season long and checking around. It wasn't a massive surprise to people there. We'll get more from Allison at the bottom of the hour, obviously. But your thoughts when this first came across your eyeballs yesterday? I mean, my first thought, yeah, it was inevitable because when you get, it's the same soft landing we see time and time again in the

League, which is we respect the guy too much to actually put him on his ass. So we'll kick that ass upstairs for a year. And then we'll find a graceful exit for all involved. Detroit, I hope you're watching. Now, the thing about Francis that's important is that you have to look back at the legacy of this man in the organization. And I looked back at my writing when he was hired to run the Cracken. And what I found was an article that I wrote a scathing column, a screed, if you will, Merrick, that talked about how Ron Frank had to prove to the Seattle Cracken that it wasn't his fault. And what am I mean by that? Well, he was with the Carolina Hurricanes in an executive position for eight seasons.

In all eight seasons, the Carolina Hurricanes did not qualify for the playoffs. And for a while he was G.L. I believe. That is correct. The wrap on Francis was that he lacked the boldness to make significant moves to upgrade the roster. to make it a playoff team. The wrap on Francis was that he was managing a team that was simply average in every way, content to be around the bubble, not necessarily a real contender. And this is the man that they hired to build the Seattle Cracken.

Well, you reap what you sow. And the Seattle Cracken over the course of five seasons are nondescript, content to be a bubble team, and average in so many ways. Now, there was one exception to that rule, which was the one year in which they had a points percentage higher than 500 and upset the Colorado Avalanche in the first round of the playoffs. Hang the banner, folks. It's the one time the Seattle Cracken achieved anything in their history.

You and I have talked about it before. I think the approach for this team was completely wrong. They should have seen what had happened with the expansion draft and realized that they were going to have to approach this thing in a much different way than Vegas. Yes. But it's hard to do that when you're a new team. after five seasons, it is clear. The path forward for this team is to gut it,

is to restart and to do what every other team that wants to be a contender does, which is the tank for a little bit, get some star players to the draft, which is the only way you can get them, and then go from there. And hopefully that's where Jason Browderall is looking to do because I think that's the remedy for this franchise after five seasons of Ron Francis's inept averageness

made the crack in one of the most nondescript teams in the National Hockey League. Too bad because all the marketing around it is fantastic. And the logo and the colors and the branding, everything around the cracking is, is fantastic. But the problem is like at the end of the day, you got to play the game. And to your point, the team has been very average. Think about Ron Francis too. And this dovetail is what you're saying.

Ron Francis as a manager always seemed content just to hit a single to get on base. Yeah. Singles. Hit a single to get on base. Whereas, you know, champions hit home runs. right take like the big swing like Ron Francis was a safe pick even though to your point he never made the playoffs in his tenure with the Carolina Hurricanes but seen like a very very safe pick sterling reputation well respected all around the NHL but at the end of it as we

see him as an executive not willing to take risks and where there is risk there is reward now you could flame out too but at the same time I mean if you what's that the Jim Collins book Right? So the great the great title. Good is the enemy of great. You know when the Stanley Cup, you got to really take some swings. Now, the one thing I will say about Jason Bottero here, I think there is a tell from this year. And that is that Seattle was in on Artemmy Panarin. On Panarin. Exactly. So that is that that that is like the tell for, okay, well, so what's the off season going to be like for the Seattle Cracken? I think that's it. There's no free agency this year. Fold the tent on July 1st, everybody. I think this is going to be the summer of trades and I think that Seattle will be right there amongst everybody else and they'll be trading with teams that are looking to get younger and pick up draft picks and pick up young players.

Discuss amongst yourselves which teams those may be. But I think that's the way the Seattle goes in the offseason. The one thing that they have sorely lacked is they haven't had a stud defenseman. There's a lot of young players you look at and you say, you know what eventually they're going to start scoring in the NHL. I think of Berkeley Caton specifically. Jake O'Brien is on the horizon.

But they don't, they never had that one stud D that I still maintain every successful team needs. They don't have it. Well, they also don't have a star player. They also don't have a lot of things. I think the roster that Ron Francis built

that Jason Baderle inherited is a series of complementary parts that they were hoping would add up to be a significant contender, which is an idiotic way to go about things. Like, look at how many guys on this roster are there from the expansion drafts, though. Like, it's, there's a lot of guys in this team that I like. I like Epperyly, like Jaden Schwartz, like McCann, like Dunn. There's a lot of guys in the team I really like, but they're all complementary players.

They're all co-stars in search of a star. They're all moons in search of a planet. or planets in search of a sun. Whatever metaphor you want. It is a team that exists with a vacuum in the middle, which is, as you said, a stud number one defenseman, a star forward. They've lacked it for five years.

And again, the only way you're getting it is probably through the draft. So goals for this year, this season, 27th in the NHL as we do this podcast, 213 goals. Do you think they could use someone who scored 70 goals in the last two? years. Would that help? I mean, they probably could. Yeah. Who were you thinking? Uh, someone who maybe wasn't qualified by Seattle, who's now with the Boston Bruins and is the one person I keep pointing to and saying, how can you let this guy walk? 6 foot 2, 200 plus pounds, great hands. What's that name? Oh, Morgan. Morgan something plays with Sterling.

Morgan geeky. That's right. And when your team is broken, you call the geek squad, baby, and they'll fix it up for you. Well, that's, that's, yeah, I mean, that's, that's one that got away. How do you let that happen? Well, that's the guy's no longer working there. Well, that's, that, that's just it. Like, everyone's going to, like, look at, okay, so where, where are the areas they fell down?

You know, one of the areas where they kind of fell down to is, and it's not of their own doing. regardless of what they were going to do, they were going to be measured against Vegas. Yeah. And Vegas just nailed the expansion draft. So inevitably, they're going to be measured up against Vegas. I remember, and this is true of a different era, but I remember talking to one manager who went through the expansion draft.

And this is when Vegas was going through theirs, and I said, okay, so what's your strategy? like after the expansion draft is done, what do you do? What's your strategy? And he said, you know, the real answer?

He said, yeah. He said, you trade every single player you just drafted so you can start to make your team. That's what you do after the expansion draft. I mean, makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense.

But I was a defender of Ron Francis and the Cracken after the expansion draft because it's unfortunate. that everyone smartened up. They had the same rules that Vegas drafted under. They had the same pressures being put on other teams. The difference was nobody lost their damn mind this time to make some of the trades that they made with Vegas and through that leverage.

Like Vegas lucked out in a lot of ways because they had players like not in the marches. I don't think they lucked out. The pressures of the draft. Oh, see, I look at it differently. I don't think that Vegas lucked out. I thought that Vegas taught us something really, really important that a lot of managers don't want to admit. Which is.

Vegas showed us that a lot of teams don't know their own players well enough. That's good. That's a fair point. Don't you feel that way? Like there were a lot of teams that you looked at and then you saw how these players that got picked off performed at Vegas. And I don't think it was just like, oh, these are all the players that are not wanted on the voyage. And that's for inspiration. I kept Sam myself, that lasts for,

a few weeks. Like at the end of the day, it's an 82 game schedule. What these are are good players that were overlooked by their own organizations for certain biases or politics that Vegas looked at and said, Jonathan Marshall is so ain't going to pop where he's at for reasons, XYZ. So let's pick him off. No, but I, I, that's a lesson. To me, that's a lesson of Vegas. If you want to say that they did a better job identifying those players in Seattle did,

That's obvious. I completely agree with you. But I think what Vegas really did in the expansion draft is they had new rules. Teams weren't prepared for it. They didn't have like three years to get their roster in order for these decisions to be made. And they were able to go to teams and be like, if you don't give me this guy, we're going to take this guy. And I think what happened to Seattle is that when the expansion draft came around again a couple of years later, teams were just like, take our guy. Take them.

We don't care. We're not going to be held hostage by these Vocococ. 100% expansion draft rules. And that's what killed them. So I defend Francis and the performance there. But to your point, Merrick, then what do you do? Like if the expansion draft doesn't seed your field and create a bountiful crop of winning, you got to get the seeds out the field.

You got to make the trades. You got to get rid of that stuff. And instead, I think they doubled down and tripled down on a supporting cast of players that, again, give me Jordan Eberle on a contending team. but don't expect Jordan Eberle-led team to be a contender. That's the difference. Don't disagree. More on this with Alison Lucan coming up at the bottom of the hour.

The other thing that I wanted to ask you about yesterday in his interview with John Walton, Caps Radio Play-by-Play Play Voice. Oh, yeah. Alexander Ovetkin saying, I'll tell you later. You've been talking about this for a while. So he said, I'll, now, my. Ladies and gentlemen of the chat, where did you hear it first? You heard it from Mvvysw

that Alex Ovechkin would make a decision most likely in the offseason because he didn't want the circus that would come with doing it in season and also because he doesn't really know what he's going to do yet. Now, I thought one of the best questions, by the way, in the scrum that followed Ovechkin's interview

with John Walton being published, Kevin McGrane, our good friend from, I believe, the Toronto Star is it? Was the first guy to ask Ovechkin, what about the KHL? Because that's been the assumption is that when OV decides the NHL is done for him, him and his family, we'll go back to Russia, he'll play for DEMO, he'll finish his career in the KHL. That was a great question.

And Ovechkin did not shut it down, by the way. So I don't think, again, I'm throwing darts at all of this. First of all, from the Capp's point of view, the person that I feel for here is Chris Patrick. Because he doesn't know what he's dealing with now in the offseason, with or without Alex So of Etchkin, like at a certain point, Chris Patrick needs to know, like, pick, pick a date. He's going to know. He's going to know before the draft. I don't, I don't think OV.

He's going to drag this thing out. I hope not. I don't, honestly, I don't know. I don't know. It's how does my body feel? Because you're talking, well, I'm 41 years old. They're going to see how my body feels. I'm going to talk to my family about it.

I don't know how, again, I don't know how long that takes. But at a certain point, Chris Patrick does need to know what they're doing. I will talk to my family on July 2nd. I'm like, Chris is just like, stop. Stop me trying to sabotage me. And, um, but the, the other, the other thing about it too is because, and listen, Ovechkin, remember early in his career, he talked about this, about how he wanted to finish

and do one year, play one year in Russia with Dynamo, the program that he, that he grew up with. I don't know that he, if he does make that decision, I don't know that, you, that, you, he plays an entire season. When we interviewed him on lifers at the beginning of the program, he talked about maybe playing a few games as opposed to an entire season. So I could see that. I could see Ovechkin novelty act for Dynamo technically finishes with DeNamo. Again, if that's the way he goes, but I don't know that he plays a full season.

A real, a real Yager-Kladdo situation for Ovechkin in the KHL. just to Saturday nights in front of the full house. Just a Saturday night. Of course, like, why the hell would you saddle up for a full season in the KHL if you're a Bechkin? The whole point is that you don't feel like you're healthy enough or your body is in, you know, is prepared to play 84 games in the NHL. Why the hell would you play a full season in the KHL? That was a great question by Bigran.

And, again, Ovid and shut it down. Listen, I tend, here's the interesting thing. Because I was going to say I tend to believe he's going to retire, but I just don't know for sure. I go back and forth. But I do know this. The Capitals have a very interesting thing happening this weekend, which is they're playing the Penguins in Pittsburgh on Saturday.

They're playing the Penguins at home and their season finale on Sunday. I'll be at that game. I talked to somebody with the Caps yesterday, and they don't know either. Like, no one knows what Obie is going to decide. Oh, trust me. I know. And so what the Capitals are having to do on Sunday,

and if you watch the game, you'll see this. They're kind of crafting some celebrations of the season as opposed to the career. Accomplishments the season. As opposed to the career. Yes. Allow,

yeah, they're going to allow fans to kind of celebrate what he's done and give him his moments. And I don't know, maybe they give him a gift before the game or something. Like they're trying to kind of like toe the line between, we need to make this special for the people that are paying $1,200, is a ticket because it might be his last game. And we also have to keep in mind that we might have to do this shit again next year.

Like it's a very interesting balancing act that the capitals are having to do for Sunday's game. But as I said earlier today on Twitter, man, like, look, I'm, I'm an easy crier. Like put me in the theater watching Titanic. Watch the waterfall. Sorry. I'm a, I'm an emotional guy. and especially when it comes to things that I think are orchestrated to maximize my emotional response to them. You're a mark.

You're a mark. I'm a mark. I am a mark. Oh, God. We talked about when I was at WrestleMania. Pause that. Finish your thought on Ovanjkin. And Sean Michaels was the guest referee, and he super kicks the Undertaker, and Triple H is about to end the streak.

And then the Undertaker kicks out at two and a half. And I was openly weeping and hugging men next to me because of what wrestling did. Listen. I had that same feeling at the end of Robocop. Not because I was sad, but the movie, I just didn't want it to end. More Robocop. There's the chance to do some really beautiful things with Sid and with Gino. Like, I'm sure they'll probably get some iconic image at some point.

Of a Vechkin and Gino hating each other like they did for the first however many years of their career. Until Cobotrack pulled a piece at the Montreal All-Star Game. What? What? It's not like him and Sibber boys for the first like eight years of their careers. Oh, no. Could you imagine at the end of Sunday's game, win or lose, if like Crosby and Ovechkin met at Center Ice and did a jersey swap? Oh my God.

I'm like getting misty thinking about it. Like what an end of an era moment that would be if these two cats came into Center Ice and did a jersey swap. Oh my God. I couldn't handle it. I couldn't handle it. You know what I've always talked about of retiring players. And it really fits OV's brand. And this is totally lifted from powerlifting and amateur wrestling.

And that is, end of the career, skate to center ice, do the taps along the glass wave for the fans. Skate to center ice. Take the skates off. Leave them in center ice and walk off. Skates do that little bit of ice. That iconic. Think about that picture, which lives, like, goes down in, like, there's the Bob,

Yora picture, there's the Jim Craig picture, there's the Barilco picture, like, and then there's the Ovi skates. at the end of the career. But jersey swap with Sid? Do you imagine? Oh, that's juicy, junior. Oh, that's juicy. I need closure for this era.

And look, I'm not going to sit here and not say that Ovechkin hasn't become kind of a problematic player later in his career with the support of Vladimir Putin. I'm Ukrainian. I get this all the time when I talk about Obechkin. People in my mentions discussing the war. I'm very aware of it. I'm the first guy that wrote about Putin team.

Okay, and his advocacy for Putin on the American soil and trying to campaign for the guy here. But that can be acknowledged while we can also acknowledge the end of, for my money, man, the most important player rivalry the National Hockey League has ever had. Like, show me another one. You would know. What's a more impactful player versus player rivalry than Sid and Ovi in the history of hockey? Rock and Richard and Gordia. Rocket Richard and Gordy Howe were the original Sid Novi. Detroit, Montreal.

Detroit, Montreal was the rivalry in the NHL. Rocket and Gordy was the rivalry. And those two were physical. It was a very physical rivalry. Yes. Did they ever have to revive a dead sport? No. Like Sidonovie had, we have to lockout.

No, they just had to both depress, artificially depressed salaries so owners can make millions of dollars. What they have to do? I just, for my money, like, when you think about what these guys did, there's a few things that revived hockey after the cancel season. Outdoor hockey, the revival of some glamour franchises to become contenders again, like Chicago and Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and Boston, and then Sid Novi. And that's what saved hockey after it reached its nadir of, you know, the fact when they had to rush, run to the outdoor life network to find a television. because no one wanted them. Like it was, it was a bad time. And these two guys arrived and all of a sudden we had our magic versus bird rivalry.

And the way we go. They had a, the NHL locked players out. They got a salary cap. They got rid of Bob Good now. They got a shiny new logo. And they look to these two guys and say, can you please save us? Yeah. You remember what the marketing was like all of it, the HBO 24-7, all of it.

They go all around Sid and Ovi. They used to put Pittsburgh Capitals games on. as the lead end to the Super Bowl. Like it's, it was, it was, it was the, I,

again, like, I was not around for Rocket and Gordy. I'm sure that rival. I wasn't around either. For the national, I assume you were. Well, hang on,

hang on. By the way, just so you know, like the Richard riot happened out of Montreal, Detroit game. Yeah. Don't like fans were already like,

again, they wanted to do whatever to Clarence Campbell, but like that happened at a Montreal Detroit game. There was five other teams in the league. It was guaranteed to happen against one of them. Fair point.

I know me for my money, safe to take the NHL in a lot of ways. And I will pour one out when this rivalry ends because it's meant, it's meant, I mean, listen, man, it's meant so much to me. My entire career has been spent in the Sidovia era, you know, for practical purposes. Look, if you, if you're, you know, I was talking to someone last night who's right around, I think she's around 30, maybe 31 years old now. And she was saying like, you know, I was saying, like, you know, I was talking. I got into hockey because of this,

and this has been my whole hockey life. Wow. Is these 20 years of Sydney Crosby and Alexander Ovecgen? And I was texting with her. I'm like, I never considered it like that. Like that is something like that is the completeness of someone's hockey experience from when they're 10 years old to 30 years old.

They've gone from being a kid to being a grown up. Yeah. And it's been there for you. And we've, and we try to gin up player versus player up. Bruce. It's like, oh, look, you know, Badaard's playing McDavid tonight. I'm like, wow, two guys with the same first name. These guys

came up together. They were the antithesis of each other, the rock star versus the Canadian Golden Boy, the Russian rock star versus the Canadian Golden Boy. Their teams hated each other. They hated each other. I still, again, like get a little emotional thinking about that All-Star game when Sid Novi

laid down their arms and became the Statler and Waldorf of the All-Star game. Two old guys sitting on the board and talking about the skills competition. Like, it has been a hell of a journey. They both won cups. Like, thank God, Ovechkin did. And then obviously, Ovi breaks the wreck. It's just all of it's so, so wonderful and so error-defining.

And it is kind of like a little bit emotional to think about that era, potentially coming to an end on Sunday. And that's how close to be out of it. And then there's a game at nationwide against a Columbus blue jesus. Okay. Let's get. I know we got, I know we have Allison coming up, but like, standing by. He's waiting here.

Listen to us to us. Go on that. His schedule is insane. Do you realize the Philadelphia Flyers are in a playoff race? They have four games left. They go to Detroit tonight. On Saturday, they're going to Manitoba. They're going to Manitoba in the middle of the playoff race.

What is happening? You make Manitoba sound like it's Siberia. They're going to Manitouis. Going around the dark side of the moon. Beside Ontario. It's the province. It's neighboring province here. Oh, my God.

They're going to Manitoba. Did you know what Brits Gullough said? I will not go. They have no place. Oh, it's true. I forgot about that one. That was a good one. Yeah, Winnipeg.

Let's get to Allison. Listen, from the Too Many Men podcast, a contributor, of course, with Seattle Crack and someone that, the minute we saw the news yesterday, there was only one choice to come and talk about this. Someone who we mentioned the other day is,

listen, Mike Johnson said he'd be interested in a management position. We'll start off the interview here before we talk about Ron Francis and the Seattle Crack. Have you ever thought about, working in management, Allison? Well, it's great to see you both. I love you both. Although Greg is going to be my first choice

for agents and Steve's one who bought me up and you didn't. No, listen, I think it's funny. I feel like all of this talk of suddenly people and teams deciding they need to do studies and bring in research firms is proving my past career to be relevant. I mean, and listen, who wouldn't want to be part of working in a front office? I think it would be a incredible and I think it's funny to me you know everyone's everyone latched onto that data-driven comment and I apologize I'm at morning skate so we have pucks and no ambient ambient noise ambient sound in the industry we have ambient sound behind us that's a crossbar that's a plexiglass go ahead perfect but you know the data-driven comment that was made everyone is latching onto analytics and things like this

but for me and my background and what I heard is we have to try hockey is a business and we have to transition hockey to operate like other businesses do. And that's not to say that people haven't made good decisions. It's that now you have to, any decision, you can't just say, this guy skates good, you have to have return on investment. You have to provide a pathway to why you're making the decision you're going to make, what the repercussions are, what the risks are, what the percentage chance of getting to your goal is, how it helps you meet your goals.

And that's not just analytics. The data is not the issue. It's the decision-making process, and it's the questions you're asking of the data. And I used to do that a lot. So if anyone needs help learning how to do it. Have you updated your resume recently? You know what? I don't even know if I have a current resume right now, actually.

I don't think I've updated mine since maybe like AOL sports. But don't flatter yourself, Craig. Don't flatter yourself. I mean, what's on it? I worked at Burger King in high school, and then I worked on the Eastbury. From there to puck daddy. One of the things I found interesting about all this stuff, Allison, is like, it does seem, though, that there needs to be some part of your experience as someone who's, you know, data driven that's going to make the hockey men calm down. Like Eric Tolski had to be an AGM before he became the GM.

Sunday night has, you know, been an AGM in Florida once. two Stanley Cups, you know, the Leafs and Devils have permission to talk to them. And now he's got some hockey bona fides. Do you think it still is a situation where even if you have a great track record, even if you're brilliant, even if you have the respect of your peers, you still have to be like in the front office and having done the job before someone's going to hire you? Yeah, you know, when I was a consultant, I always used to talk about consulting in this way, is that to be good at the job, you have, there's two tracks. And the first track is the industry in which you're working, and the second track is the skill set which you bring. And I always

believed that you have to be really strong in one. And if you are, I can teach you the other one. So to answer your question, I think you do have to come to understand hockey. But if you have the skill set, you can bring that to hockey. And I even look at, and I know we're going to get into crack and stuff here too. I do a series called From the Front Office where we sit down with front office and coaching personnel. And we just were fortunate enough to have Alexander Mandricki, one of the assistant GMs out here on it. And I love watching her career thrive. And just hearing how she has, she's brilliant in data, of course, but it was impressive how much her success has been about bringing process and structure and a decision making structure to

hockey. And I think that, to answer your question, Greg, you have to have some hockey, but if you're really good at structure or if you're really good at process or if you're really good at contract negotiation and you are passionate about learning about hockey and you will learn about hockey, you can bring that in. Experience matters, but in which of those two tracks. It seems as if, and you're right, we're getting to crack in after this question, it seems as if this is the way I've been positioned in this sort of, this next generation of managers in the NHL. And baseball got there 20 years ago, 25 years ago. It is becoming less and less about did you play and more and more about can you think.

That's the way it feels to me. Case in point, Julian Breesbois, for example. No one questions Julian Breesbois at all, but go look at his hockey DB. You know what I'm talking? More and more,

it's not about did you skate and shoot frozen cow patties off the barn and swift current and more and more about can you think? Can you understand? Yeah, I would add, can you think and can you communicate? because if you can think, but you can't communicate, you're not going to get buy-in. I do think, if we look at the spheres of influence in a hockey organization,

I think your hockey knowledge has to be stronger, the closer you are to the day to day of the team, right? Like, obviously, your coach can't just be a data-driven decision maker. Your coach has to understand that life and the industry in which they work, he or she. So, you know, the spectrum of what I don't want to discount the importance of, knowing this game and knowing the incredible mental fortitude and strikes of players and coaches. But I'm thrilled that hockey seems to be dragging its feet into the fact that we are all

businesses and we can operate better and therefore be more successful if we do. I think it was ultimately going to get here because of the dollars involved. Where once upon a time, like when Garrett, when Bettman took over in 93, okay, it was a league and it made a couple of bucks, but nothing. close to where it's at now, I think that when you start to see, you know, billions of dollars being thrown around, it was going to get here inevitably anyhow. And just like, because at the end of the day, it's hockey, it gets there last. Anyhow.

Greg, go ahead. All right. Cracking. I don't know how much. Yeah, I don't know how much you can get into, obviously. But like, in talking to people over the last 24 hours, one of the words that kept on coming up was, or words, I should say, phrases. lack of boldness when it came to Ron Francis

and the way he managed the team. There weren't enough big swings. There was a contentment that was there that seemed to manifest over the course of five seasons. Is that how you saw it play out when he was sort of had his hand on the wheel for that franchise? Yeah, I mean, I understand the analysis. I think, you know,

and I think part of what everyone's feel, we just talked about being business, but fans are not business, right? So I think a part of what everyone's feeling right now is that if you, go back, myself included to September, start of October, and said this team would be playing relevant hockey in March, I think everyone would have been thrilled. The problem is this team achieved even more and was in a playoff position for the vast majority of the season leading

up to the Olympic break. And now something has broken. And it's not systems. There wasn't a big roster change. And the disappointment of that was unexpected and huge. And so I think, think that that is leading to this emotional reaction. When I look at lack of bold moves, I almost think what we have to realize is it was a bold act that actually kind of threw off the plan, and that was making the playoffs in year two. You know, Ron Francis came in and said we have this five-year plan. We're going to build from within. We're going to draft good players. We're going to build them up through our system, develop them, and then we're going to be great and be able to cost control the roster, and it's going to be awesome. And then in a year where Connor Bedard goes first

overall, this team in their second year of existence makes the playoffs, which was amazing for fan development and amazing for revenue, but now you're picking 20th instead of maybe among a top four that would have helped really solidify what Ron was trying to do here. So now you're caught. You're caught in this tension of matching what happened in year two, but still trying to stick to a plan. Is Ron a bold swinger? maybe not, but, you know, he wasn't saying he was going to be. He had a different plan in mind,

perhaps. And, you know, it's one of the big points of contention in Crackenland is the Chandler-Stevenson contract. And is it going to look bad in a couple years? Maybe I happen to be a fan of the player when he's playing at his highest level, but how many teams this year were screaming that they didn't have center depth? The Cracken were not one of them. So do you overpay for security at a position that you know you're going to need, you know, is that bad or good? So is Ron Francis a bold swinger? Maybe not, but I think his plan got a little derailed. And I think what you have to look at now is I think the Cracken are trying to change

that perception with the reports of them going after Panarin and some of the things that Todd Lightwiki just shared with us this morning. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I keep coming back to with, and this is true of any expansion team, actually, I remember I talking to Ryan Nugent Hopkins about this at a players tour interview a couple of years ago. is when you have a team of really, really young players, the one thing they need is a consistency behind the bench. And Nugent Hopkins was like, look, I've had like eight coaches in 10 years.

Like, imagine what I would be like if I had like one coach for five. Eisenman made the same point when he started with a Retreat Red Wing, just running down like the entire laundry list of coaches that he had when he started. Initially was supposed to be Rick Tocke and then something happened between Francis and Tocke and it didn't end up happening. And then it was Dave Haxthol. And then Dan Bilesma and now it's Lane Lambert. Do you look at what's happened on the ice with the Cracken and do you ever say to yourself, man, if there could have only been one coach

for the Shane Wrights and the Maddie Baneers and all in Berkeley Caton now, and all these players, how much different could things be? Yeah, I mean, I think, and to kind of maybe spoil the lead, Todd LeWiki spoke with us about an hour ago and one of the things he shared is I joked off the top is that The Cracken are going to be undertaking an audit of all of their hockey operations side to make sure that they're achieving and striving towards excellence, which is how Todd Lightwiki likes to explain it in terms of what the Cracken organization is all about. So, you know, they're going to look at everything and I think they have to. When you're changing coaches, of course, that matters. Counterpoint, you can't keep the wrong coach, right?

So maybe the decisions weren't made properly at the time. but one thing that Todd Lightwicky was very strong about in his comments today when asked was he said Lane Lambert has done a heck of a job coaching this season and I agree I think Lane has again we talk about them being in a playoff spot for the vast majority of this season I give a lot of that credit to Lane and you know again you talk about the consistency of coaching it's of course an entire staff effort but this is the year to me that Maddie Benares is really taking a step to being a full pro is he ever going to be a blazing scoring machine? I don't think that's his identity as a player.

But when we look at, when this team started to struggle and got to where they are now, there were guys who understood the moment. And those guys who stood out to me were Brandon Montor, Philip Grubauer, and Maddie Baneers, among others. And to see a young player take that, I've got to try to will my team into this on the ice, was impressive to see from him. So one of the things I thought about when I saw the news last night was the timing

of everything in the big picture. But that I mean, there is now a clock ticking down to the return to the Sonics in this market. And the Cracken have never been shy about talking about how they're not intimidated by how crowded the market is. They've talked about how it's an advantage to them that people put their money into the sports ecosystem in Seattle because they can be a part of that. However, the Sonics are going to come back soon. And obviously, ownership is probably going to be a part of that effort.

But my question to you is like, you know the market. When you're the Cracken and you haven't necessarily planted your flag as deep under the ground as Vegas has, for example, or maybe as Utah has, for example, like how much pressure is there for them over the next three to four seasons to really make that effort before the NBA comes and starts vacuuming up all that money? Yeah, 100%. And Todd Laiwicky was asked that this morning. And, you know, again, it is by very much too many men. brand to say how does this affect the Leafs, which is this organization doesn't want to be caught saying, you know, oh, we didn't see Buffalo coming, right? Like this is an organization that's aware. But I also, how Todd framed it this morning, and we talk about this when we talk about any

sport, Todd framed it and said, the competition we have for ourselves to achieve success is internal. We're not going to wait for external forces to apply this pressure. I think we can all see, economic realities, anyone can in any market of any industry. If there's five McDonald's in a square mile, do you want to open another McDonald's? You have to be sure, right? But I do think that this team has to be good for reasons that relate to this team. And I think that this market, I have been just amazed by their passion for sport and their ability to support multiple sports.

I mean, even the Torrent games are selling out climate pledgerina. It's incredible to watch. and I think if you give them a winning product in a great building, I think people are going to keep coming. One of the ways that I always judge newer organizations in their first like 10 years of existence, 15 years of existence, is how is the youth hockey? Because that's like, that's the basis that sets you up.

Like that many kids that are interested, those are one day going to turn into, you know, beer leaguers, but also season ticket holders. Nashville has done a tremendous job with youth hockey. Anaheim has done a tremendous job with youth hockey Dallas. Well, look at the junior bluejack. Hey, Sean Corral. Right this way.

Hey, Kiefer Sherwood, right this way. Like, you're at Columbus has done a great job with youth hockey. How is Seattle done? Yeah, I think that they're doing great things early. And, you know, I'm still waiting for you to come out here, Jeff. You promise me. I know. I was in this.

Yeah. I was, hang on, I was going as of like two days ago to Seattle and then Everett. And it's still on the agenda, but now it got switched to Penticton and Colonna. But it is. Okay. Okay. Okay. But our practice, our practice facility is a three sheet.

I was there for the winter classic. I was there for the winter classic. Come on. That's something. I know. But you were like in and out. I didn't get to see you. I was very disappointed. Anyway, when the Cracken designed all of this, you know, one of the things they did that was

so smart. We see what Vegas did with their practice facility. The Cracken said yes, and we will see you that and add. And there's a three-sheet facility that is constantly booked, which is where the Cracken offices are. It's where the Torrent practice. It's where the Cracken practice. And again, those sheets are packed and there's learn to play. We're seeing triple-digit percentage increase, particularly in the women's side,

in terms of people participating and playing and having access to a sport that they did not even have access to. And to that point, the One Rube Foundation, the charitable arm of the Cracken organization, has done a ton to bring people who, for reasons outside of their not even being a facility, couldn't have access to the sport, gaining access to the sport. And we're starting to see that passion. You're starting to see people talk about their beer league teams. You're seeing Mara Wagner, who plays on the Torrent, who coaches young girls here in Seattle. And Caitlin Parker, who grew up out here, is now part of the Cracken Development Team.

So you're seeing roots start to grow. And I think the Krakken understand that assignment, take it very seriously and put their money where their mouth is. I'll tell you what, like, I don't know if it's a contingency of expansion, expansion teams now. But I really do firmly believe that when you're applying for an expansion team, part of the process has to be, what are you doing for youth hockey in this market? Like whoever goes into Atlanta, okay, so what's your plan for? the Atlanta junior flames or whatever, the junior thrashers, whatever they're going to be called.

Okay, Houston, what is your plan for youth hockey? I don't know if that's part of the application process now, but I really do fully because that's, you want to talk about like long-term sustained growth. It sticks in kids' hands, boys and girls. That's how you do it. It should be like the second thing that Batman asks after.

Do you actually have money? Are you a criminal? Do you call you boots? Oh, what a deal. Oh, what a deep pull that is. Oh, wow. Okay, sorry, I appreciate that. Thank you.

Alison, you mentioned the torrent a bunch of times. Let's talk about the PWHL for a sec. I mean, like, the selling out of large NHL arenas, be at the TD Garden in Boston, Madison Square Garden here in New York, has been one incredible story this year. Obviously, the Winter Olympics seems like it's been an accelerant for the league as well, as well as expansion been an accelerate for the league. Where are we now at the PWHL?

What do you see as the next two or three years for this league? Yeah, I mean, leadership is talking another year of expansion. So it's going to be interesting to see where that goes. The coach in Vancouver has some comments that have been kind of making the rounds where he's commented on the two expansion teams out here, West, have a lot to learn just how to manage the travel and the demands of multi-week road trips. So I think, you know, that's an interesting thing to consider when you think about expansion as well. Does that aid in this? It grows opportunity for more players. And it certainly doesn't seem to slow down. I think in

everything that happened at the Olympics, all of which was amazing for that team, I think that one of the things that Hillary Knight said, and I remain in awe of her for a million reasons, but mostly for how she processed that moment and how she chose to address it and take it back for the women's team. And I think that the comment that doesn't get enough time for her is that this is about reframing how we talk about women's sports. And I think that that is what this league is doing is that everyone who saw that team and rallied around that team and even Team Canada, as they should, now has an avenue to continue to express that passion and that support because the PWHL is putting the brightest lights in a great way. And because expansion is coming, that means these rosters have the potential to get shook up all over again. So, you know, starting the season, Ken Clee out in Minnesota, their head coach said to me, he said, we have to be in win now mode because we can't plan for two to three years down the road.

So there's an interesting wrinkle to how they think about team building right now compared to even a league like the NHL. So it's a lot of fun. Okay, let's get totally irresponsible. I'll throw a name and then you throw a name. Detroit for the next round of expansion. Detroit. I'm agnostic. You're agnostic on this one?

Greg, you want to be irresponsible and throw names out that you heard? I think that's right. Come on. I would, listen, I think it would be, that game was fantastic and sold out and that was a real eye-opener. See, I keep going back on whether they're going to do two and two or they're going to do four all at once. Because the plan is to add four more teams before they look to start selling them. I just don't know if it's going to be staggered. or it's going to be all at once.

The only one that I keep hearing and people keep coming back to is Detroit. And then you've already started making the room. I don't know. I mean, you'd think that they would finally bring some form of organized women's hockey since Division I schools there can't seem to be bothered supporting programs. Well, there is that. That is not lost on a lot of people, as you know out. We'll learn and say what?

Yeah, precisely. Well, let me sort of close this conversation on this one too. And we'll stick with women's hockey. The challenge. I don't know how long it's going to take is right now the stars are made at the Olympics. The next challenge for the PWHL, again, like, this is still a brand new. The challenge for the PWHL is to make a star outside of an Olympic cycle. I don't know how long that takes, but that's going to be the next challenge.

But I think it can be different, right? Because what we were just discussing is that you can now have, hometown heroes that are stars. And you can have stars that start at the local level that grow up, even if they don't play at the national level. I'll take Michaela Grant Mentos, who's playing out here with the Torrent. She is centering a line that has clicked that has developed an identity. She's also gone through some strife with some illegal hits against her. And the fans here love her. So we can have, I think, gradients of stars. You're always going to look to the Olympics, of course, but we do that on the men's side as well.

And so I think there's going to be the opportunity to not just have one tier of star. We're going to have more stars at different levels, which creates more passion from the fans, which creates more support, more involvement in the game, more players, and so on. By the way, that is Toronto's Michaela Grant Mentis.

Thank you very much. Actually, I think she's Brampton. I think she's Brampton. So I want to be screaming at me. But, well, claimer is our own from Toronto. How about that? All right. I got one for one more for Allison.

I can't believe if we're going to let this incredibly intelligent person go without bugging her about the Stanley Cup playoffs. Look, I know Seattle is still mathematically in it. So I'm going to caveat that. Yeah. But assuming they don't get in, who do you like, what's your back of the cocktail napkin cup final right now? Oh, see, I've been so busy having to agree with Jeff and defend the fact that I like these first round matchups being best against best that I have. I've gotten into the championship yet. Who cares about the cup?

Just the first round. It's all I care about. Cups small. I want a team to be at their best when they're playing the best, right? Versus being hobbled and broken when they play the best. So let me think about this. Who's going to make, see, I always. While you think about that, while you think about that,

see, that is, I think, the essential difference between me and you guys in this playoffs. I've heard your argument, Greg. My arguments are airtight. But like I love, I prefer my favorite time in the playoffs is when everyone on the battlefield has been felled, bodies with arrows strewned about the ground. And then you have two warriors bloodied and battered who can barely stand up. And only one will leave the battlefield with their lives. Like that's the part of the playoffs that I love more than the beginning of the fight. But remember this is at the same time, everyone, when it was Team USA versus Canada, everyone said, well, they want Marie-Philippe Poulat to play.

play because if they beat them without Marie-Philippe Poulant, it's going to be an asterisk, so you can't have it both ways. Yeah, but we were lying. Of course we didn't want to play. She's like the best player. We were lying. Listen. Listen.

Who would I pick? For some reason, I always have a soft spot for Dallas. I don't know why. I agree. You know, Colorado, I almost need them to see a little bit more adversity. I don't wish ill on them, but I think it's come pretty easy and they have no power play. So how are we going to do this? So Dallas on the west and on the east.

Do it. I want to say Columbus. Say Columbus. You're all right. Do it. Do it. I want to say Buffalo. That's what I wanted to say.

I'm debating between Buffalo and Tampa. That's what I'm debating between. Can I pick three? Buffalo or Tampa versus Dallas. How about that? That's fine. How come no one ever says sweet FAA about the Carolina Hurricanes? Every time, every time.

I know we've seen them conference final, conference final, Flamo, intimidated by the Florida Panthers, blah, blah. I come still, like, they're the Rodney Dangerfield of the East. Well, I mean, I think it's... But the new one. Do no fault other than their own. Yeah, that's exactly... Allison just named the team that has the fourth best goaltending in the league this year,

and the other team has Andre Vasaleski. To me, that's my biggest concern for Carolina right now is in goal. I think offensively it's one of the deepest teams that they've ever had, but they're going back into battle with the same damn problems I've always had between the pipes. Bussiecon Smythe. Here we go. The new Camphorne, ladies' gentlemen. That's right.

Patrick O'Haw. Ken Dryden. We've kept you far too long. You're far too busy and important to be talking to two jokers like us for this long. So thank you, Allison, as always. and on a very newsy day, we appreciate you coming on. Well, I'm always honored to spend time with two of my very favorites in the world, even though I now know Greg loves me a little bit more.

I have your best interest in mind. Sorry I had to find out like this. I'm sorry. Love you guys so much. Thank you for having me. Can we go to therapy and sort it out, Allison? Oh, there she goes. We'll never find out now.

Oh, boy. She's the best. She's the best. Why didn't you spend more time in Seattle? There's a lot of people in Seattle that would no doubt love to. Why did you have a Jeff, a Jeff Merrick meetup at some coffee shop in Seattle? So all your fans can gather and see you when you were out there.

Coming back for the first game of the PWHL schedule of all time. That's all that. That's all it was. They're going to add four more teams. Four more teams, yeah. And then they'll start selling the franchises. Is that the deal? Well, no, I think they.

So the way that it's been explained to me is they want four more teams. Like they're trying to capture time zones, obviously. And looking for a footprint. Looking for a footprint. And that will, they hope, lead to a national TV contract. Perhaps from an organization that you work for, Greg Wischinski. But I digress. I'm getting down the road here.

Yeah. So four more teams, national TV contract, and then sell the franchises. there is as they see it no value in selling the franchises before you get a TV contract because you get a national TV contract franchise value goes up obviously and I think the way they wanted

that are really intriguing for the WHL right now are one live sports rights are coin of the realm they're the only thing that really matters in linear and in some cases on streaming and the other thing is that and I'm meant to bring this up with Allison but like people all

all of a sudden decided that they can make money on women's sports. And that's a big change from like 10 years ago. And now all of the, there's so much investment in women's sports, there's so much investment in women's teams, not only here, but also internationally, that it's a trickle down effect. Like, for example, so the ESPN, my employer, isn't going to have Sunday night baseball, right, this year.

And one of the replacements for Sunday night baseball is a dedicated women's sports program that would air on Sunday nights. And like that certainly didn't exist all of like three years ago. So the wins are in the sales of women's sports and then live sports rights are the most important thing right now in television. And so

the PWHL, if they can again expand the footprint and figure out the travel and continue to be a great product, they're positioned to be incredibly successful. And that's heartwarming for someone who used to toil in the days of the NWHL.

and see how that league tried to operate and thrive before that. Yeah, the CWHL, yeah. By the way, did you see that clip of the Oilers at the trade deadline talking about the Jason Dickinson trade? It was part of their like behind the scenes show. No, I haven't seen it. What happened? Yeah. No, no, no.

Well, it's getting a little bit of grief because of the way that they made the deal. Did they make the deal? Don't spoil it. Did they make the deal? They made the deal? Yeah. Some people are like, oh, my God, if this is how they run things. But like in the background of the shots, and I think she actually spoke a few times, was Danny Rylan, who I thought was working on the East Coast, but apparently is now working for the Oilers.

She did speak today. Did she's, uh, did she's, uh, former, NWHL commissioner, Danny Rylan, who's been a scout and, uh, involved with NHL teams for quite some time. I, she was made like a cam, right, right, Zach, she made it like a cameo in that, in that video. Yeah, that's correct. a lot of those like again i mean every league sits on the shoulders of those that came before but and i know that she has her detractors with some but like in the great book of when the great book of women's hockey has ever written there's a significant chapter for danny riley rylent i could the the amount of heavy lifting she had to do the amount of headaches the amount of sleepless nights the amount of

arguments that she would have had along the way getting to all of this i just i just I just hope that I just hope that history remembers people like Danny Rylan or people like Tyler Tominia as well. Like people that like helped continue to lurch this thing. It's nowhere near completion. It's nowhere near getting to where where where it's going to settle. Like I've said before,

like this is the one great growth opportunity in hockey is on the women's side. but I just hope that everyone still remembers like the Danny Rylands and the Tyler Timinias of the world that help bring this thing forward. And all the athletes as well. All the athletes as well. All the athletes are the important part. And the sacrifice the tonne and also the athletes

that are playing in the league now. One other thing I forgot to mention is that the PWHL now exists as a point of juxtaposition with the NHL. If you're a new fan, you come to the NHL, maybe there are some things about the players and the teams and the way the league is run that you're not crazy about, you have an alternative. And the players might look like you, which is an important thing too. And I think that's now also something that is sort of the undercurrent to all the other things that are pushing the PWHL towards success. I wonder if that is part of the business model for the PWHL.

I mean, if you're the NHL and you want to capture the full snapshot of your market, that is the NHL teams that buy these teams. that buy these teams. I mean, I think a working partnership and ownership of these teams makes a lot of sense in many cases. Okay. You know what I saw last night? I went to the Toronto Washington game.

It's our really, really bad hockey team. It's one thing to watch them be really bad on television and then it's another to watch them live. Oh, man. And you know who I felt really bad for? more than anybody else. And I didn't feel bad for the players. I didn't feel bad for the coaches.

Didn't feel really bad for anyone on the Toronto Maple Leafs organization. I felt bad for the people that do game ops. Where you got to like, and like the team is a dog, there's no energy. It's no real effort. It wasn't helped that, you know,

Washington went in there and played the classic road game, you know, lining up soldiers. in the neutral zone. Like, they played a road game. They needed two points. They got to keep the playoff.

Hope's alive. We all understand that. Congratulations, Ilya Protois with an assistant in his first game. But Toronto was lifeless. Last night. And I feel bad for game ops people who at every whistle, got to get the crowd hyped. And at intermission, got to get the crowd hype.

Like, what are you going to have like a yawning competition at this point? Like, what are you going to do? I felt really, really bad. Like, here's your job to put on the smile. And come on, here we go. Well, you let me alone. I'm just here with my kids. I just can't, when is this thing over?

If you've been to enough games, you've been to games that are absolute stinky, stinky dogs. And it's like six one in the third. And the game ops people are still like putting on the noisometer on the demo fraud. Make some noise. Oh, God. It's like a pin drops. You can hear it. It's tough.

And a lot of them have sponsorships attached them. so you got to put on the brave face for the sponsor. I had, man, it's hard. I know I talked about directing a Star Wars movie earlier. Yeah. I know really. I know really. I just want to be a mascot.

I know that. I know that. I don't want to be a mascot. Kids are people are too hansy. I would want to be a director of game ops. Like that would be the, I think that would be a incredible job to have in hockey. Dude, I'm telling you, still, one of my, one of my, one of my favorite, one of my favorite things that I've seen. They used to do it in Toronto all the time.

As a matter of fact, my buddy Mike, Majeka, was one of the goleys involved. They had like full contact goalie races. It was the best. Yeah. It was like it'd be incredible. Full contact. Like, oh, and especially if it's like a shitty team where you've got to, you know, make the fan environment so exciting that someone will buy a ticket later in the season when they're 20 points out of a playoff spot, like give me that job. being the person who finds the third liner who scores a goal in a game, that's great.

Being the person who designs Vegas's pregame, that's what people remember. That'd be the job I'd want in hockey. You know the Nick Fetio story with the Islanders? You'll love this one. There's probably more than a few of them. But what's what? Oh, yeah. But normally they involve fists, but this one involved a saw.

So Rangers are playing the Islanders, okay, at the old Nassau, Coliseum. And you know that promotion they do where they had they in the intermission they put the board up in front of the net and they have like a tiny little slit right that you have to like shoot a puck from scler ice. Scoro. Okay. So we're all familiar with it. So Fatir

the Rangers finished skating in the morning and they're walking out and Fatio one of his teammates seized by the Zamboni they have the Scoro board and so oh they're doing scoro tonight and there's no one around. So Fatio grabs a saw and where there's a tiny little hole

he like saws it out big they don't look at the all they just figure like okay bring out the squirrel board here we go gave away two cars they gave away two cars that's incredible nick fatue man of the people new york rangers wow oh yeah nick fatu one of the great one of the great stories new york ranger oh yeah man of people i wonder if that okay given how litigious our society is right now and how social media is social media. What do you think would happen if a player did that now? Sabotage a scoro board and a team had to give away two vehicles because of it.

It would lead to a fascinating lawsuit when the team tries to not give the cars away. Yes, it would. But I think it would they would because it would be horrible. These are your own fans. You're denying cars. I don't think it's about public perception at all. I think it's the same thing as like, look, when you get caught. speeding. What's one of the basic ways that you beat a ticket?

It's was your radar gun calibrated properly? It's on the team to measure the hole. It's not on you to measure the hole. It's on the team to measure the hole. You got to make sure that hole is, is scorer regulation. I was, that's your problem. I just saw, I just saw saw and I just grabbed it and said, oh, here's a board. I'm bored. I'm going to saw the board because I have a saw. I saw it. here's a board and I'm bored. So that's what I'm going to do. And now you're going to give way two cards.

Your Honor, I rest my case. Exactly. My dad did score once. It was brutal. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. One puck didn't get through. Did he hit the net at least?

No. He did not. The devil used to have a thing where if you bought a program, which I don't even know, did they even sell programs anymore? I don't even know. But you'd have to go to a certain page in the program. And if a player autographed that page, then you got to participate in Skoro that night.

And one of my favorite traditions in Skoro, of course, is when you do things like my dad and not get the puck anywhere near the net, the crowd in Jersey would boo, boo passionately. Shocking. Boo like Matt Rompé just scored a goal. There was a vitriol to the booing because you are given this opportunity to excel in a game that we all want to play, and you fail so miserably. Fine.

That happens. Not everyone can play hockey that goes to watch hockey. But did they let him keep the stick? No, of course not. What? Come on. Get off your wallet, devils. Leave only footprints, take only memories.

Your job is to try to win a car. And he didn't do that. It didn't even get a stick out of it? Nothing? Hot dog? Anything? He just got booed. Your dad went out there and they howled at him.

He got to feel what it's like. Thank you, Mr. Wichenski. Yeah, he got to feel. He got to feel. feel the venom of his neighbors is what he got to feel. Wow. Not performing in Skoro. Tough crowd,

didn't it? Because they always give you like crappy sticks for it too. Like they're not giving you like, you know, $400, you know, composite sticks out there to fire. They bring out like the wooden straight blades. I'm sure,

by the way, I'm sure that that's part of the deal too. That they give you crappy sticks to use. Oh, you think that's part of it? They don't, they don't give you the proper, the proper equipment to thrive.

Well, they'll give you like, okay, you're left-hand shot or right-hand shot. And maybe they don't. Maybe they just give you a straight stick to sort of bake into the pie that if you're going to do this, you're going to really have to do it. I should also note that like my father, God love him as a terrible athlete. Like he makes me look like a decathlete by example.

So this was just a nice to be. He was also probably. He was also probably like at least three pints into the night too. So I don't think he was in fighting shape either. So it all ended up to being another great achievement. Did they let him take his beer on the ice? Here, hold my beer while I shoot. That would have been awesome.

They should because it's before it's resurfaced. Oh, by the way, what did you think of the Zameth? Did you talk about that yesterday? Okay, no, I didn't because I was waiting for you to come on. I'm glad you brought it up because I remember a conversation that I had with Steve Mayor. This is, God, going back like five years on the 32 pod. And I was pitching him, you know, I have like a million stupid ideas.

And one of the stupid ideas I pitched him for the NHL to get behind was a show that I wanted to do. A co-venture with the NHL at Sportsnet called Pimp My Zamboni. And he was very polite about telling me that I was stupid. But essentially he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, run along, junior. Like, no way. And then if I saw the Zammoth, I'm like, it's Pimp my Zamboni. It really is. That is Pimp my Zamboni.

Yeah. So anyway. Yo, man, we heard you like tusks. How about we put tusks on tusks on tux on tux on this Zamboni? So good. That's exactly what it is. Looks fantastic. Look at, if you're watching on you, look at that.

That thing is freaking gorgeous. And this idea has been sitting there for so long. And every team should do something like this. And they don't. It's not just my Zamboni, man. It's like an art piece. Like, it looks like an art piece. It looks like something you'd see at the Whitney here in New York.

So good. It's really amazing. Part of me is really pissed off about it. I didn't pursue it harder. You had a great idea. Yeah, they shot it down and it made me feel small. But as you said, like the thing that makes it amazing is the history of it. It's great.

It's great. It's great. From a 2002 Salt Lake Olympic Zamboni. Yeah, that's part of it. And then retrofitting it into a mammoth is great. Everyone will steal this idea without question around the league. Like, kudos to Utah for being first to market. But, I mean, we're all just kind of waiting for Philly to do theirs, right?

I mean, the idea that you can get eight drunk fans in the back of a gritty and drive that around the rink. It's pretty great. It's fertile ground. Watching the Leafs roll out a piggy bank would be pretty interesting. No, watching the Leafs roll out an ATM zamboni is what they need. Just leaves Canadian dollars behind it as it drives. No, gobbles them up.

You kidding? No, I ain't leaving. I'm just gobbin up, dog. You put like a bunch of coins on the ice at the Simpani just comes around, cobbling the ball. That's funny. Oh, yeah. There's a lot. It's a rich vein.

The NHL needs to tap now with these party wagons. This is why you stay alive. There's how you stay alive and there's why you stay alive. And it's one like this. We're like, this is why you stay alive. Pictures from behind the moon and the Zameth are what's keeping us going. That's keeping us going. me going this week in the crazy world

that we all live in. All right, we got to hustle. I'm glad you brought that up too because I remember that conversation with Steve. Pit my Zambonier. Oh, okay. All right. We'll never work until it will never work. We'll never work. Good on you, Utah.

Okay, you'd be good. We'll talk next week. I'll be in Colonna when I'm talking to you next week. I will be... Clona is gorgeous. Oh, beautiful. No. No, I've never been to Colonna or Pictaton.

But I do love the fact that the team He's called the V's. V's. Yeah, that's the V. Not a B. Wait, V's. Yeah. Oh, that's right.

They're the Pettictin V's, not B. Pentictin F's. Yeah. This is going to be like a little list hobo moment. The dog? They're V's. No, no, no. I've never,

the only place I've been to in B.C. is Vancouver and I'm dying to go back, but they've not really given me a reason to in recent years. Go to Victoria. They have a junior team. They're oils. You'll like it. Talk next week, bud.

There is Greg Wushinsky from ESPN. and ESPN.com. Anything interesting in that hour? I mean, Allison was, but anything other than that, Zach, do you find, tickled your ribs? Other than the Zameth?

So fucking good. The continuation of the Zammit. What if, I like the idea of we don't see or hear anything about Ovi and then I guess it's not, not his last game though.

It's not the last game game because the penguins game isn't their last game, right? No, it's Columbus. I'll tell you, I'll be honest with you. I'll be honest with you. When I saw the schedule, my thought was he's not going to play that game. Okay, so then let's keep that alive because your scenario helps mine. No, he's playing that game. No, he is.

He's playing that game. Everyone, I don't care of everybody who has bought tickets for the game in nationwide. I'm of the belief he is playing that game. But I wonder. Is he actually going to play that game? They should have flex scheduled it. You know, like the NFL will flex schedule things.

They should have flexed it and flipped it somehow where they would have played Pittsburgh last. If both teams are officially out of the playoffs by then, can the Washington Capitals buy that game from the Columbus Blue Jackets and play it at Capitol 1? Good question. I like that. But I was just going to say,

imagine like you don't find out in the last. last thing that happens is the game ends an OV and Crosby skate to center. Sid is the only person who knows and they swap jerseys and that's how he leaves. No last hurrah in terms of a big

make it about OV session in every game that he plays in but then just right at the end swap jerseys and OV of all people what he should do Jeff not leave the skates I get the sentiment but he should just take the laces out those yellow

laces, leave the yellow laces, and then leave. And that's the final site. Or Crosby or he plays and then he plays in Columbus. Skate to center ice. No, Vetchkin takes his jersey off and gives

it to Crosby. And Crosby says, sorry, I need this for the playoffs. This is the one I've been wearing. The last five games I've put up points. I need this one. We haven't washed it. either.

I don't let the I do like, I do like that like Ovechkin Crosby moment at the end of that Penguins game. That's the unfortunate part of the scenario I've drummed up

in my head. Can I jump to something here from the chat that I want to 100% I got to do more. We got to talk more about the chat and subsequent shows. Yes, go.

This is not a hockey thing in particular, but it was very specifically asked for you and I don't want to forget it. Morgan McKenzie says, uh, off topic,

but did Jeff see Maple Leaf wrestling in Toronto got a deal with the red company? I know he loves, his wrestling. So I want to make sure we got that product. I was texting with Scott DeMore about that two weeks ago, congratulating him and Scotty and I were trying to get together for, for lunch or a coffee.

Yes. Uh, I did see that and, uh, and was very pleased to see that. The red company and the blue company? Is that right? We're going with.

Yes, I did see that. So that's great. I think that's awesome. I think that's awesome. I'm really, listen, I remember Maple Leaf Wrestling when I was a kid

with Billy Red Lion. Don't Trader miss it. Like it was, there used to be like my Saturdays, holy smokes. I would have hockey in the morning at play. And I'd come home with it. There would be AWA wrestling at noon.

Maple Leaf at one, Mid Atlantic at two. Then three, there was roller derby. At four, it was Al Tomko's Pacific or Vancouver. I can't remember what it was called. Al Tomko's promotion at a Vancouver.

and then at five every now and then on CFMT, we would get Lucha Libre. Those were my Saturdays. And then Saturday we had hockey night in Canada. I was never really a wrestling guy, so I don't really know too much. I get it. That's like the more major disconnect to you and I have.

That's fine. I was raised properly. That's okay. I was raised properly. You weren't. That's fine. So it's just a comment on your parents. Okay.

Fair. I was raised probably. Oh, by the way. They just left me alone all day. Yeah. They left with the hockey all of fame and in front of the TV. Yeah. Watching wrestling.

What do you expect they're going to turn out like? Like I'm responsible for this? No. What happens when you're... Jeffrey. Jeffrey in the chat says, Jeffrey in the chat says, Hey, baby, I got a mammoth zamboni.

Oh, no, no, no, no. You know that's happening. That's so tough Yeah You know It writes itself That's a good one I got a mammoth samboni

Yes yes Yes I can't scratch it Yes yes Yes I know I know I get it

Dark suit moment Dark suit moment Um Hey We got a couple things here to do And we're getting Already late That's stuff to do

And so do you And so does everyone Listening and watching Right now If anyone's still with us Listing or watching right now We are glad to be back as well.

Some that's been with us for a while here, and we had a great time with them with them in the summer. In Muscoca, it is our good friends at Airbnb. Have a listen. Have a watch. You know, Zach, it's that time of year again where kids hockey really starts to wind down. Bitter sweet, right?

Maybe a couple of games left. Maybe a tournament, but that's about it. You know, I've got two boys that play hockey. You played minor hockey at a high love. full line, I'll tell you, you know what the truth about all of it is, right? What's that? Do you remember the games or do you remember the travel tournaments? Tournaments, hands down.

They were the best. Right? For players and also for parents. And what our family started to do a few years ago is book places on Airbnb. I remember when we started. It was a baseball trip in Barry, Ontario. And one of the parents asked if we wanted to book on Airbnb together. Sure, let's give it a shot.

Best decision. You know why? Why? Laundry. Baseball uniforms get dirty. Having that washer dryer right there was a godsend. Plus, the kids had an absolute ball. Pardon the pun.

Been booking on Airbnb ever since. And hockey tournaments? You need all the space you can get to air out a hockey bag. You know that. So, yeah, you book places on Airbnb too, right? Yeah, I book places on Airbnb all the time. A bunch of my old minor hockey buddies and I are all kind of getting to that age here and now. Everybody's getting married.

So we just booked a whole home together for this summer for a wedding. It makes it really easy. It gets everybody together in one spot. You remember that place we booked on Airbnb and Muskoka last summer for work, right? How great was that? Place was gorgeous, right on the water, clean, spacious, and the big bonus, hot tub. Yeah, that place was perfect. You start the day in the water, you end the day in the water, nothing beats it.

It was easy too. We just showed up, picked up the key, and that was it. Really simple. You know, the next time our family is away, we're looking at hosting on Airbnb. It's super flexible, practical, and helps cover the cost of a vacation or building another rink in the backyard next winter. Your home might be worth more than you think. find out how much at Airbnb.ca slash host. Glad to have our friends at Airbnb back aboard here with us on the sheet.

It's a busy night around the NHL with 14 games on the go and playoff ramifications up and down the lineup as well to that spirit. And in that spirit, we like to remind you here that the sheet is powered by Fanduel. Play your game with Fanduel. It's the NHL season. Fan Duel is your home for all the action on the ice. From Blue Line to Batslip, we've got you covered all season with unique promos, live offering. and more features to let you play your game. Zach, I'm sure you've got something tasty cooked up here.

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Sir? Um, next weekend, uh, for those who aren't familiar with Ontario junior lacrosse. The, uh, the junior league start back up and the old team that I played on, they're hosting an alumni night and an alumni game. So I was invited to come back out and play. And I think it's something that I'm probably going to do. I haven't seen a lot of those guys in a while. But, you know, I was thinking about it and kind of getting worried because it's been a bit since I've played. And, you know, in my day, Jeff, I put up some points, but it has been a while, so I was worried about Rust.

So I picked up my stick the other day, and you know what? I found out still, not too shabby. Oh, Shabana. Okay. I put up some points. Okay, Braden point. Yeah, yeah, but it's been a while. I was worried about Russ, Brian, Russ.

That's obvious. He picked up the stick the other day. And, you know, not too shabby. Maxim Shabana. God of it. Gislanders. Braden Point, Brian Russ,

Maxim Shabana, $5 wins you a cool. $252 and $4. That's a good one. Hey, we get to see the debut of Pete DeBoer behind the bench. In a game that you can say about every Islander's game now, they absolutely have to win tonight. Can I just sidetrack quickly for one second?

Do you know what's kind of sad to me right now? the fact that the Seattle Cracken are not mathematically eliminated from a playoff spot and they have the fifth best chance of getting a first overall pick. That is a wild. That's a pretty wild swing. That's a pretty wild swing. But if there's any team that really like needs a first overall pick or needs the first overall pick, it's Seattle.

Hey, I'm not saying anything about the organization as a whole that's on the comments on them. I'm talking about it as an HL picture. No, I know. As the snapshot, no, I understand I get it here. What is Toronto going to do for an encore tonight? By the way, I felt bad for you last night. Having to go on after that, Turkey. I know how you and Mike cobble together a program, but like, whoof.

The good thing about my show is it's pretty free-flowing. It's kind of just whatever's happening I will talk about. As in like what happens in the chat. Let's talk about that now. Yeah. Let's get callers. whatever so it helps me uh but yeah i'm so thankful for mike last night because the game was going on and i'm sitting there just like please give me the ovi story please give me the ovi story and i got

none of it so i'm like i don't know what i'm going to do and i texted mike last minute and i was like hey do you think you could jump on tonight he said yeah came on mike he's good for like 40 minutes it was great we talked about gms and their search and what they kind of need to do and the stolar situation but no the team is are you hang on are you going to be playing the the mike johnson video uh tonight when if slash when the maple leaf lay another egg tonight oh yes oh i will i will be holding on to that thing i was talking about mike johnson left and right last night and merrick brought this up merrick was talking about this on the sheet merrick's going to get this guy a job i was bringing the guy up like you couldn't believe last night so the fact that this

clip now exists, I will be playing this 30 times tonight. So I should be writing up like an invoice here for MJ like, hey man, I'm like I was a guy. Yes. Yeah, when he gets the deal wherever it is, whatever position he gets, you got to tell him like 10%. I think 10%. It's basically an agent. Industry standard 15. Come on.

What's his 10? Yeah. There you go. I know. Right. But other bread on both sides, Merrick. Okay. God, we abused your time today. Thank you for sticking with us all the way.

If you've made it to the end, we feel like we should give you a cookie or something or a lollipop or something. So thank you for hanging in there right to the very end of this longer pod, 90 minutes. Thanks so much for being along with us. Thanks to the great Alison Luchin for stopping by the program today to share expertise on finding managers slash executives, both from a corporate and hockey point of view as well. And Allison is fantastic. Premier Thal every time she's on.

Greg Wischinski from ESPN and ESPN.com here Tuesdays and Thursdays here on the program for MVSW. Thanks to you for a couple of things. Listening, watching, maybe doing both, interacting in the chat, supporting all of our sponsors. We always appreciate that as well. And just paying attention to us on a daily basis as you do. We very much appreciate it here. And speaking of appreciating things, if you've subscribed to our YouTube channel, thank you. If you haven't, please consider doing so.

On behalf of Zach Phillips, who's got to go through his own program later on tonight after whatever happens between the Maple Leafs and the Islanders who now have new bench boss Peter DeBoer behind the bench. On behalf of Zach, thanks so much for joining us here today. One more show tomorrow, and then we're on the bird Saturday morning, getting to Penticton and then Colonna. So we are going out west for a few days, shows in Colonna Monday and Tuesday

and some other stuff along the way. Anyhow, enjoy the rest of your night and your day, depending on when you listen or watch. 14 games on the go around the NHL this evening. Enjoy whichever you are watching. We'll talk about them tomorrow here on the sheepup. Be good.