The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Sin City Magic ft. Jonas Siegel & Shayna Goldman

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

On this episode of The Sheet, host Jeff Marek is joined by Jonas Siegel of The Athletic to break down Mitch Marner’s move to Vegas, reflecting on his time in Toronto, what ultimately went wrong, and what the Maple Leafs need to do now to fill the void. They dig into the pressure on GM Brad Treliving, the roster gaps that need filling, and what options are still on the table this offseason. Later, Shayna Goldman joins the show to recap a jam-packed first day of NHL free agency — highlighting the best value signings, the biggest overpays, the most surprising moves, and which players are still up for grabs. Plus, they name their winners and losers from Day 1 of the frenzy.#NHLFreeAgency #MapleLeafs #MitchMarner #VegasGoldenKnights #NHLNews #BradTreliving #TheSheet #JeffMarek #HockeyAnalysis #ShaynaGoldman #JonasSiegelShout out to our sponsors!👍🏼 Fan Duel: https://www.fanduel.com/👍🏼Budweiser: https://www.budweiser.ca/ca_enReach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

This episode of The Sheet is sponsored by the OCS Summer Pre-Roll Sale. Sometimes when you roll your own joint, things can turn out a little differently than what you expected. Maybe it's a little too loose, maybe it's a little too flimsy. There's a million ways to roll a joint wrong, but there's one roll that's always perfect. The Pre-Roll. Shop the Summer Pre-Roll and Infused Pre--roll sale today at ocs.ca and participating retailers. Hello, welcome once again to the sheet. Glad to have you aboard today. Thanks to everybody, by the way,

I just mentioned this in the chat a couple seconds ago at our daily Face Off YouTube page. Thanks to everyone who joined us yesterday on our free agent program from 11 to 2.30. Shepard it along by Tyler Uremchuk. Thanks to everyone who stopped by. I thought Hart Levine made a particularly strong debut. Would you agree with that, Zach?

The founder of Puckpedia was notably exceptional yesterday in his big network debut. Yeah, I particularly liked the little box. What did they call it? The cap corner? Cap cam? Was that what it was called? Yeah, stick them in cap corner. Teams have felt like that teams have felt like that by the way teams have felt like that at various times Oh, I'm in cap corner right now. I can't do anything. I think I have a different word for it. Yeah, I think so Yeah, cap hell. Yeah, they're one. Yeah Yeah, I particularly like that. I thought he was great. I thought you did an excellent job Yeah, I'm cold saying last Colby. What do you think? Yeah, I did a great job yesterday

I'm saying Laz Colby, what do you think? Yeah, I did a great job yesterday. Whoo, that was, this is, we'll be right back. Man, I need a break. When's summer vacation? So I'm watching and the first time you throw to them they got in an argument, the very first time. Impact players, man. Those two guys are the impact players.

No, I know, it's great. Yesterday's coverage was awesome. It was awesome. It was a great show yesterday. It worked out great. We're really thrilled with how everything went yesterday. One thing before we get into what's on the program today and talk about yesterday and talk about today

and speculate about tomorrow, and we're still waiting for Nick Ehlers announcement somewhere, is it Carolina? Is it Washington? We shall see. One thing I wanna draw your attention to, I'm kinda dropping this one on you, Zach Zach here at the last moment as I just sort of donned on me. I don't know how many of you follow the CHL import draft. Zach, do

you follow the CHL import draft? No. I love hockey but I'm not that familiar. Let me tell you something about this year's edition of the CHL import draft. No, I love hockey but I'm not that familiar. Let me tell you something about this year's edition of the CHL Import Draft. The Brantford Bulldogs in, I think it was the third round, there's three rounds in the Import Draft now, they drafted someone by the name of Alexander Karamanov. You know what's interesting about him? No. He's seven feet tall. He's the biggest hockey player in the world. He's 273 pounds. Have a look. Go to dailyfaceoff.com. Tyler has a piece on him.

Alexander Karamanoff drafted in the CHL import draft by the Bulldogs and just have a look at him. I tweeted this out when it happened and then I put a video along with it, like a 15 minute feature that someone put together of him playing with a junior out in Wilkes-Barre, Scranton, Pennsylvania. It's spectacular. Now I think the plan for the Bulldogs is to get him to play tier 2 for a year then see if he's ready or not to join the OHL but just the visuals of this guy seven feet tall the biggest hockey player in the world was drafted by the Bulldogs today in the CHL. Now he is a if I'm not mistaken here you can do a quick check on EP I he is, I think he's going to Penn State in two years. You see what I'm talking about? I found a picture here I'm gonna try to get on the screen as soon as possible. It's wild. It's absolutely wild just when

you when you when you see this kid he's a he's a defender so naturally the comparisons come up with Zidane O'Chara. In the feature that I tweeted out, the interviewer asked him if he's ever met Char and he said he met him once but he lost the picture. Like first of all, he's a charming kid, he's huge and I don't know what more to say about him other than he's like a massive project now for the Bulldogs in the OHL if they can I'm assuming get him here and then probably stick him in junior a somewhere Where he'll be yeah a star like honestly if he's if he's playing in like well if he's playing like for Wellington or Trenton or My local team the Stouffville spirit You'd go if he's playing for the Aurora Tigers you'd go just to see this guy, right?

like wherever this guy goes he's gonna sell tickets because he's seven feet tall. There he is, if you're watching us on YouTube. It's so good. That's an insane visual. I don't mean to laugh, but you're right, the visual is insane. I don't believe in sort of you know laughing at people's You know physical physical appearance because seven feet tall that's before he puts on skates anyhow Alexander Karamanov congratulations Spencer Hyman and the Bradford Bulldogs

Tell you what man the Hyman family's really distinguished themselves quickly here in the in the OHL with some surprise signings and now drafting seven-foot hockey players and there it is. I don't know what more I can add with that other than they just drafted a huge kid in the import draft. Yeah. That's it. Like he's big, he's large. Okay let's see what's coming up on the show today. Daily Outline is powered by FanD and seven foot hockey players make every moment more with North America's number one Sports book and coming up on the program today We may have to bring that visual back up

Because the players seven feet tall Jonah Segal from the athletic will talk to us about Mitch Marner and The Vegas Golden Knights and the Toronto Maple Leafs and what's next it is a Shea Day here on the program as we like to call it So Shannon Goldman from the athletic and the too many men podcast tops by Marner to Vegas and the press conference and the high fives and the wrestling with the 93 jersey to try to get it over His head. I don't know that if I've ever seen anyone Have a harder time putting a jersey on especially someone who plays in the NHL, but there it was We'll talk about the Toronto Maple Leafs offseason, we'll do a little free agency recap and as you put in here winners and losers I um I've made this mistake before I think we've all made this mistake before I think as

a matter of fact we made this mistake last year. And that is proclaiming winners and losers too quickly. What did we talk about last year? About who won free agency? Who was going to like all of a sudden punch their ticket? All of a sudden there's going to be, they have a shot at the Stanley Cup. Holy smokes, Barry Trotz, amazing job and free agency. That was incredible.

They just won the cup in July. When's the last time credit. They just won the cup in July When's the last time we saw when a team win the cup in July or Barry trots and Nashville Predators did last year, right? Yep, right What did you describe it as hang on I just had a wasp land beside me This will be exciting if this if I get stung it's gonna be awesome. Hey buddy. How you doing little guy? We're making a good clip. We're making an awesome clip.

He's wandering off now. Now everyone's gonna see Jeff not move for the entire rest of the show. No I don't get freaked out by him. I don't get freaked out by anything except for olives. I just don't like olives around. Yeah I just can't stand olives. That's the thing that does it, eh? Rodents, snakes, olives.

Oh, you're like my wife. Oh my gosh, you can't take snakes. Really, eh? Why? They shouldn't move like that. How do they move? It defies logic. They're on ground. It's just something freaky about them. I used to have the biggest... I used to be like you, I used to have the biggest phobia of snakes

and I remember specifically when it ended. Never since then, I've loved snakes. George Tronbalopoulos and I have been best friends for god, about 25 years now. And when he was first starting out, I think it was even before he got the much music job, it's over at his apartment in downtown Toronto on Claremont Street, just a little bit south of Dundas.

And he used to collect snakes. And he had this one python, and it was, I believe the way he described it was a modeling snake. It's a snake that they use in photo shoots for things. And so he was keeping it for a buddy of his for a couple of months while his buddy was out of town and this thing was like massive and like this thick it was a big snake and I was always like dude when you take that out like let me know cuz I'm gonna I'm gonna beat it like I'm

out I'm out of here so it's like just one day I was just sitting there on his on his couch and really quietly he brought it he's like all right I'm just gonna go up to the store I'll be back in five minutes. And he dropped it on my lap. And I like, I was like, my first instinct was panic and fear and, oh, oh, oh. And then the snake sort of rolled, got itself around my arm and then just stopped. And every now and then would just do like a gentle little squeeze and just chilled.

And it was about 15 minutes. I was there with this snake on my lap and on my arm and then by the end I'm like, this is the coolest thing in the world. And ever since then I've loved snakes but there was about five minutes where it was complete terror. But that's all you got to do. It's like jumping out of a plane to get out of the fear of heights that you have. Just dropped the snake in my lap and said peace out and go on the store. I'll be back in 15.

I guess. I've always thought, I don't know how we're talking about this. And we do have Jonas just hopped in. We'll get him ready there. But I have always said like I could never do Fear Factor because if they ever said this challenge has snakes or those pits of snakes that you get into, it's an immediate no. Like I would just quit the show right then and there. I'd be like, I'm done. I'm not doing this challenge. snakes, or those pits of snakes that you get into, it's an immediate no. Like I would just quit the show right then and there. I'd be like, I'm done, I'm not doing this challenge, thanks for having me, see ya. So it's just like, there's no point in me getting there

because I know I look and say no. The name of the show is Fear Factor, you know? It's not Tickle Factor. Not gonna go in there and be happy. But I could do all the other things is what I'm saying, like the bugs and like all those things and eating the shit. Like the random crap they have.

I couldn't do the snakes. Like I just could not do the snakes. Okay, let's find out the one thing that Jonah Segal is afraid of. But before we get there, this segment is brought to you by, we welcome in a new sponsor for the summer, Simply Spike. There's nothing like that summer hangout vibe and Simply Spike helps keep it going.

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Must be legal drinking age. Please celebrate responsibly. With that, we bring on Jonas Segal to talk about Mitch Marner and what is next for the Toronto Maple Leafs and I suppose maybe what's next for the Vegas Golden Knights as well. First of all, Jonas, thanks so much as always for stopping by. Really appreciate it. Before we get to hockey, we were just talking about things that we're terrified by. And I used to have a thing about snakes until Strombo dropped this like 15 foot python into my lap one day. And ever since then I've loved snakes. No problem. Do you have like a snake in your life? Something that you're just like, ah, I can't do it. I have to be away. Maybe it's snakes, maybe it's rodents, maybe it's wasps. I don't know. Do you have something like that in your life, Jonas?

Not really. Like there's nothing that I really confront in like my day-to-day life that ever threatens me like that. I remember like, remember Indiana Jones, the snakes, like that forever like is seared in my mind with snakes, but like when do I see a snake in downtown Toronto? Like it never happens. Right. So sharks you you'd be fine with two. Like I remember I was a guy when I was like 15 years old. I was a family vacation in Florida and a hammerhead. Grabbed a girl just below the knee and flung her back and tore the bottom of her leg off. And the beach was closed for the whole time that we were there.

And a lot of people sort of got, you know, shark, shark fears after that, I would imagine. You ever been scared of sharks irrationally, Jonas, San Jose or otherwise? Really? Like, you know, I don't know why I keep bringing up movies, but you know when in Jaws, when there's the attack and then like everybody goes back to the beach and I always think like, would I go into the water

if there was just a shark attack? And the answer is probably not but like maybe like two weeks later like what are the odds I don't know it's like you know what it's kind of like it's kind of like I'm gonna try to drag this back to hockey our Richard Zednick after he got the skate slash along his throat right so right away he puts on the neck guard and then takes it off a little while later. And do you remember what he said about it?

No. It's the most hockey thing ever. He goes, what are the odds it's gonna happen twice? I mean, it's fair, right? Like you get struck by lightning once. Do you not go outside in a thunderstorm? Odds, yeah. Odds are fine.

I'll probably be okay. All right, so we drag this thing back to hockey from Snakes and Sharks. How did you see yesterday with Marner in Vegas? The jersey, the office celebration, the press conference, all of it. Did you have any immediate takeaways from the whole thing? And by the way, your piece on where did it go wrong with Marner in Toronto is excellent at the athletic. I encourage everyone to have a peek at this one. But what were your takeaways from yesterday seeing Marner in Vegas?

I mean, I don't wanna say surreal because like it doesn't really impact me any way or another, but it was weird to see him in a jersey that wasn't the Leafs. And it was strange to see him in a 93 when like the reason he is wearing 93 is because his dad's favorite player was Doug Gilmore. And like, it just, it just brought back like the whole last 10 years and the way things went and like how it really shouldn't have come to this point.

And like, good for him. Like he looked happy. It's going to be a different experience for him entirely playing there. Every player I've talked to who played in Vegas raves about the experience. It's not under the fish bowl like it is here in Toronto, but it just reminded me of all the different points from his tenure in Toronto where it didn't go the way it should have. And like, there's so many that kind of flashed through my mind.

Uh, but like he looked happy, he looked like at peace and like I really hadn't seen him like that in Toronto for quite a while. You know I have a who are we talking to was I talking to on the show yesterday I would have been Colby Cohen who said you know maybe the big winner here with Mara going to Vegas is gonna turn into Jack Eichel. You know I I've always said that, you know, Zach Hyman is probably the luckiest person. Like if you believe in karma, he must've like rescued a family out of a burning house in a

previous life because he came back in this one and has been a winger for Austin Matthews and then Connor McDavid. Well, here's Mitch Marner who goes from Austin Matthews to Jack Eichel, who may end up being the big winner and a big beneficiary out of all of it. And oh yeah, he's going into a contract year. Do you ever thought of like two sulky candidates here?

I mean, we see two sulky candidates in Florida, but you know, two sulky candidates now between Eichel and Marner both playing on the same team. Yeah, and you didn't even mention like Marner starts his career and he's playing, I guess you got to go back like way he starts his career, he's playing with Tyler guess you got to go back like way he starts his career. He's playing with Tyler Bozak, but then that first year when John Tavares signs in Toronto, he's playing with Tavares.

So he goes Tavares, Matthews, and then Eichel. I wonder like, I think it's obviously going to be a good fit. I wonder what it looks like and I wonder what impact it has on Eichel. Obviously he was kind of hanging around the fringes of the heart trophy conversation last year. And now you mentioned the contract, like what kind of hanging around the fringes of the Hart Trophy conversation last year. And now you mentioned the contract. Like what kind of impact does it have? But I honestly, I can't really think of a way it doesn't fit for Vegas with Marner. He does everything. Like he's your first line right winger.

He's going to be on your first unit penalty kill. Like they can use, I don't know, like how will they use Mark Stone now that they have Mitch Marner? Can they like, what impact does that have? And then obviously I've thought about it from like a leaf lens, like what impact conversely does it have on Austin Matthews that he's not playing with Mitch Marner? And like, you wonder what the ripple effect of that is. And then like you think back, there was a time in Toronto where they didn't even play together and Matthew scored 40 goals as a rookie, not playing with Marner. So like, I think he'll be fine, but like you mentioned the Selkie Trophy stuff,

like two Selkie Trophy candidates on the same line, now it's just in Vegas and not in Toronto. You know, and that, it's interesting to you. I don't know if you've ever sort of thought about this one before, but I've always wondered about which is the most important trophy not to trade. Like if you have a Selkie winner, and a Norris winner, and maybe even a Hart winner, right?

Which is the one that you wouldn't want to trade? I know Selkie doesn't feel as important to Hart as the Hart Trophy, but look at the Florida Panthers. Look what just happened with the Florida Panthers. And no one there is winning the Hart Trophy. But how many guys, when we think of Reinhart and Barkov specifically, that are always in the conversation for the Selke Trophy. You know, I always look at the Detroit Red Wings with Datser and Zetterberg and say,

how could Mike Babcock ever lose a line matchup when two of your best offensive players are your two best defensive players at the same time? Like, and now all of a sudden the Vegas Golden Knights have two Selkie trophy candidates. Marner more prominent, but still, you know, Jack Eichel is in that conversation too. I don't know if you ever thought about which trophy player would you, would you, would you, uh, would you make sure you don't trade? I think he can make a strong case for the Selkie.

I think it's right up there. Like it's, it's especially obviously for a forward, like it's Hart, it's Art Ross rocket, and then maybe Selkie. Is that like the order that you put it in? But it's funny. Like you mentioned that because like, I was thinking like the Leafs lose Marner. That's like your, I don't know if you want to call them their first, their best offensive player, their second best, the third best, but then like conversely, what is the impact on your goals against when you take away your

best defensive winger, maybe your best defensive player, your second or your third, whatever he is. Yeah. And then, and then you look like look ahead to Vegas and like Vegas, obviously a top defensive team already. What impact does that have? Not just on their offense, but defensively as well. So John in the chat submits Marner and Matthews were selkie candidates.

Do you have to kill penalties to be a selkie candidate in your world? I think I used to factor that in when I did voting. Yeah. And then there was that, was it two years ago? Matthews was unbelievable defensively. And I think he had a bit penalty killing role at that point. It was kind of showy that it was like, we'll do it here and then we won't do it at all for a couple of games and then we'll do it again. I don't know. I'm trying not to have as many rules on that stuff. I don't know.

I think- I'm trying not to live by any code. I'm just fast and loose. It's 1967 all over again. Who cares? That's like, that's one of the trophies that is like the hardest to research and like, decide on. Like the easiest one by far is the Lady Bing because I honestly don't care so much about

it and it's, I don't know. That one I think, the Lady Bing needs to be redefined and I think that officials should vote on it because they're the ones that are on the ice and they're the ones that actually know who's a gentlemanly player and who's not. Like we may look at, you know, pick a player who's always.

Kopitar. Okay, there you go, Kopitar. So Anjay Kopitar and the Lady Bing, I don't know, does he like spit on people's skates at the draw? I don't know, but officials do. How does he treat everyone else on the ice? I don't know, but the officials do. Like to me, that's one the officials need to vote on.

Why do we have that award still? History. Can we not do better? History. I don't know. History, that's why. Yeah, of. That's why yeah, it's the weight of history. That's it That's all it is does anyone like to your earlier point does anyone get really excited? Hey, hey Jeff I you were you won the lady bang Congrats Listen to Alexander McGill who's going to the Hockey Hall of Fame remember when he would he? Refused to fly back to North America to write it like

players are like, hey, he's a banger, okay. All right, cool. That's why I think that one, if you're gonna keep it, I think it needs to be redefined. We're getting off track here, but. Sorry. No, no, no, it's fine.

And to your point about the Selkie, I'm still back and forth on, is it the best two-way forward, or is it the best defensive forward? You know what I mean? Because it seems like they're all of a sudden now and for the past however many years even though the whole thing was was was created for Bob Ganey who would do who would like almost like as a rule not get any points now there has to be have to you know put up like at least 50 points.

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Next for the Toronto Maple Leafs here. We've seen a lot of teams, a lot of Canadian teams outside of Montreal who did add and I think added significantly. Just kind of locked down what they have, right? Like we saw the Vancouver Canucks locked down as much as what they had. So Besser comes back, Demko comes back,

Demko is a huge ticket. Calgary basically just stood pat there, they're redeveloping their team right now. And the Toronto Maple Leafs, we still haven't seen them add anything. They locked down Tavares on a team friendly deal. Matthew Nyes, even though Brad True Living himself mused about an offer sheet, he comes back.

But it's not as if they're adding anything of significance. What do you think is next for Toronto? Well, he said it himself, like they want a top six forward and I don't know if that's a winger or a center. Center is obviously gonna be harder for them to find. But they need to replace, like I almost wanna put replace in like quotations because like they're not replacing Marner.

There isn't Marner out there, even in a trade. They're not getting someone who does so many different things for them. That's not to say it's the worst thing that this ended between the Leafs and Marner because it really did feel like it was time, but they need someone to plug into their top six because you look at the players that they have right now, the only ones that I can say like a hundred percent for sure are going to be in their top six are Knives, Matthews, Nylander. Everything else is kind of dependent on what else they can get. The tricky thing for them is like how many teams are wanting to give you one of their

top six forwards, whether it's a center or a winger. And then it's like, okay, we do, but what are you giving us? And then it's like, well, we have this, this, and this. And it's like, well, that's not super valuable to us. And so the Leafs are challenged not just by what's the market, like how many players out there fit their need, but then what are they going to give up to entice that team? You look on their defense, could they part with Brandon Carlo? Sure. That might make some sense if they can then replace

him somehow in free agency or decide to replace him internally somehow. I don't know what that gets you. So they need to find a way to add someone who can help them replace Marner because that's a lot of goals, number one, he had a hand in 38% of their goals last season, but then it's like the defensive impact. What is that gonna be on them? So they need to find a way to, I don't know. They're in a really tough spot, honestly. I don't know how they're gonna be able to figure this out.

That's why if I'm Easton Cowan or Ben Danford, I'm not having any comfortable sleeps until I'm in the lineup, until I actually have the jersey on. Yeah. Don't buy property. Don't buy house. If I'm those two guys, I'm just like, I'm a Maple Leaf for now. All right. And even those guys, like that, that's the difficult thing for them. Like even like Cowan is their best prospect. How good of a prospect is he? Is he a top 30 prospect? Maybe. I'm not a prospect expert. Is he a top 40 prospect? So even that is difficult and obviously they don't have any picks. That's where the ripple effect of every trade,

every transaction to me is so fascinating. If you could go back for the Leafs and you could go back to the front office and say, do you really do you really wanna make that Scott Lawton trade at the deadline? Or would you like to have that one back? Because like if you have that first round pick, like that's not changing your world, but suddenly you have a first round pick and you can throw that into a trade package,

that's a little easier than what they have right now. Last one for you here, actually I may have one more. What I've found is, and a lot of people have made this observation, this isn't just me, the Toronto Maple Leafs, even though we all know this is a copycat league and we've seen it time and time again, but they always, when it would be the own Tampa that would dispatch them, they would try to do things to out Tampa Tampa. Ditto for the Boston Bruins. Do you think that what the Florida Panthers did to them in the playoffs is going to lead them into trying to out Panther the Florida Panthers when everybody knows like, you're

not going to out Panther them. Like you can't. Like it's, it's, it's impossible. I've always made the point that no, you should run the other direction. There's more than one way to win the Stanley Cup here, but everybody assumes that whatever is successful, we have to outdo that team at being that team, which you're just chasing your tail when you end up doing it. Can you see the Maple Leafs going that direction and saying like, you know what? We need to get like a bunch of like nasty, snarly guys.

I don't care if they can't skate. I am a hundred percent in lockstep with you. The problem for them is this has already happened. This is go back to last summer, go back to Craig Barube. This was what they had in mind. They wanted to become like I know from talking to people with the team, they wanted to become like the Panthers.

They saw how the Panthers changed the way that they play. And they said, we want to do the same thing. We want to be better defensively. And maybe that means we don't score as many goals, but in the playoffs, it's actually going to be better for the team. It's already happening. And I agree with you. And I kind of feel like they've kind of lost what they used to be and what they

used to have as, as an advantage. Now you could say like that didn't work in the playoffs before, like the skill, the speed, but it kind of feels like in chasing Florida, they've kind of lost what made them special. And obviously Marner is part of that. Like he is part of that skill thing. And now it's like you look at their lineup and it's like, like how many guys really scare you offensively?

It's the obvious candidates, but it's not, it's not the same. And like, you're right. Like you're not going to be Florida. Unless you're going to make 10 awesome transactions in a row, pretty tough. And that's why I don't really love the copycat thing in the NHL because it almost feels counterintuitive to me. But you know what the thing about it is though, Jonas? You can just see so many people around the NHL, managers, coaches that just love the way the Panthers play. Right?

Like there's like a whole lot of- It's so hockey. It's completely hockey. It's, it's, it's old school style mixed in with like, you know, Sonny made us, you know, analytics and understanding of roster construction. Like, you can understand the charm because just to your eyeballs, you're like, this is an old school rough and tumble team, but underlying all of it is one of the more brilliant analytic minds in the entire NHL. It's kind of a team that services both the analytics crowd and the eyeball crowd.

Yeah. And like you look at like the acquisitions that they made and it's like, that was a good move. That was a good move. That was a good move. How do they do that? Like even like, like someone like on the margins, like Dmitry Kulakov, like they bring him in. He's played great. And then he's not into this. I think he's on like a million dollar cap. Yes. It's like, wait, what? And so like, it's almost like you kind of lose the forest for the trees a little bit with what they've done,

where they like are finding value and like even Jeff Petrie, it's like, yeah, that makes sense. Like that, that you replaced Nate Schmidt and suddenly like he makes less. And it's like, yeah, the puzzle pieces kind of make sense. It's almost like they're outsmarting the league in some ways with like the bravado kind of masks what's beneath the surface a little bit to me. I think it's one of those, I think that essentially Carolina is the smartest team in the NHL, but to me Florida is a close second and actually, and Washington's up there too. Like none of this is accidental about Washington. Like this is very, very, very deliberate. I know everyone's gaga about the chase and the Gretzky record and all that, but that's like Brian

McCollins put together a really, and now Patrick, but like they put together a really, really smart team here. But again, like this is a really smart organization, the Florida Panthers. None of this is accidental. It may look a little bit caveman-y, but these are all really smart hockey people. And Jeff, as you know, it's not just the tax thing. I know it's just like- It's part of it. That's part of it, but it's not the only thing. You know what it is?

It becomes part of it after you've put together the organization. It's just another box. It's almost like you play a video game and you get to a certain level, and when you get to that level, you unlock something else that's brilliant. That's almost like you know you play a video game and you get to a certain level and when you get to that level you unlock something else that's brilliant. That's what the state tax is. Like it's a great environment, great for your family, great to raise kids, great practice facility, great place to live, easy access, direct flights, and you get to keep all this money in your jeans. But you got to get you got to get there first. Which is why you know when the

Commissioner talked about that with the TNT crew, everything that he said was right, he just didn't take that one extra step, which is, yes, once you have all those things, then all of a sudden you say to a player, oh and by the way, more money goes into your wallet. Yes. It's complicated. Even like, even Vegas, like Riley Smith three signs in Vegas for now Less than he probably got a guy somewhere else not just the tax thing. But anyway, it's not you're right It's not it's not just a tax thing. But I Think we'd be foolish not to even look at this. It's something look at I took a haircut

To go back to Florida For a reason, you know how much he could have gotten in Utah? You know how much Utah was dying for like Aaron Echblad and Mikhail Sergeyev to be their first pair? Ditto for probably the New York Rangers, maybe even the Toronto Maple Leafs as well for Aaron Echblad. Like he could have had a big number there,

but the reason he's probably more comfortable taking a smaller number and taking a haircut, one, success does that, but two, you look at and you say, I'm still putting more money in my jeans. I'm still okay because of the state tax. Anyhow, this is a conversation that will never end because I don't think the NHL or the owners have any appetite to do anything about it. Jonah, it's great work. I encourage everybody to read your piece on Mitch Marner at The Athletic and you have yourself a wonderful summer. Thanks for

for stopping by on the program as always. Thanks Jeff. Anytime. There he is. Jonah Siegel from The Athletic covering the Toronto Maple Leafs. By the way, Zach, do you now have a new favorite 16 with the Toronto Maple Leafs? Is it now, is it back to being Darcy Tucker? Craig Berube once wore 16 for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is it now is it back to being Darcy Tucker? Craig Berube once wore 16 for the Toronto Maple Leafs in his brief stint with Toronto Do you want to go even older school like the master of the hip check Leo Boyven? War number 16 for the Toronto Maple Leafs as well. He might have been the first to really master the the hip check Do you have a new favorite 16 in Toronto? Oh you Leafs fan you? No, mine was and always will be Darcy

Tucker. That's just it's going to be Darcy Tucker and everything about him was just awesome especially as a kid growing up. I think the funniest possible outcome of all of this would be another guy on the Maple Leafs who actually wore number 16 before in his junior career. If he went and chose to be number 16, you know who that would be? Who's that? I believe Max Dolmy wore 16. Oh, he did. You're right. Yes. Oh, a hundred percent. Yes. You got that right.

Day one training camp. We make an announcement. Max Domi is wearing 16 this year. Gets in a fight in his first game. Crowd goes crazy. Jumps in the Sens Bench. Like that's... Eyes bugging out. See I started to think more like you with the taking scoots off. Dad goes down and grabs Alpherson just for old time's sake.

Dragging him off behind the glass. Yep. Yep. Okay, that's good. On that lovely thought, let's get to our next guest. We love her, and she's a presentation of Budweiser. Well, this segment is. Budweiser is encouraging buds to make time for hockey,

not excuses. Every goal, every check, every win is better enjoyed with your buds. Phone a bud, text a bud, ping a bud, and call out their excuses for bail, not excuses. Every goal, every check, every win is better enjoyed with your buds. Phone a bud, text a bud, ping a bud, and call out their excuses for bailing on hockey. When it's hockey time, it's go time, and now we go to the great Shanna Goldman from the Too Many Men podcast

and the athletic who joins us now. When does summer actually start for you? When can you just hang out with your dogs by the pool? I mean, I've already been doing that. Listen, I brought my laptop out with me every single day and I wear my stupid Apple watch by the pool so I can get pinged and know when I have to run to the computer and then I can get back in.

So how many of those signing evaluations did you do poolside with the pooches, be honest? None yesterday. Yesterday was, you know, we're focusing, we're working. The day before I did Ekblad and Bouchard at home and then Marner in between doing that and Marner. Marner, I was sitting in like a lounge chair by the pool doing it. It's a nice life, eh? It's a beautiful. It's not bad. I have no complaints. Like, listen, I sit in front of a screen for so many hours that once in a while I need to sit out and get some sunlight.

But I do, I do work outside a lot during the day because I'm not like, uh, I don't like writing during the day. I like writing at night. So if I am going to do it during the day, I like to be outside. I love it. Uh, you know, just talking to Jonah Siegel, one of your colleagues at the athletic about the, uh, the, the, the Marner shock to Maple Leaf's fans eyeballs, even though everyone saw this one coming a mile away.

Give us like a hot 60 seconds on your thoughts on Marner becoming a Vegas Golden Knight. And we kind of bled it into the conversation about the Selkie trophy, but your thoughts on Marner in Vegas. I love it. Listen, I've been begging for a Mitch Marner heel turn for years because I think everyone is so mean to him and so overdramatic about everything he does. And I get it. That's the

consequence of making almost $11 million. And that's the consequence of being a Toronto Maple Leaf and being a superstar in this league and all this and more, but it's been so overblown. So if you're going to go anywhere and be a heel to the Leafs, it would be the Montreal Canadiens or the Vegas Golden Knights because you know like they're like the bad boys of the NHL. They're the ultimate villain team. Oh you know what though? I would have thought, you know what you know what would have been the ultimate would have been Florida though, like honestly. Oh yeah, you know what that's even better. That is so much better, but then like I know Leafs fans would have turned it like, Oh, well, if you

had Mitch Marner on your side, then we would have beaten you in seven in this revisionist history that would never happen. It's a very, very good point. Um, the biggest beneficiary here maybe of the Mitch Marner heel turn might just be Jack Eichel who's going into a contract year as well. And now all of a sudden he has one of the most gifted playmakers. I'm assuming he's going to play with Mitch Marner. All of a sudden you have Jack Eichel and you have Mitch Marner feeding him grapes.

82 games. So it's soon to be 84, but for now 82 games a season here. I know I shake my head at that too. More on that later. Jack Eichel is the biggest beneficiary of this, other than Mitch Marner's accountant, that is. I'm going to disagree. Oh, do it. I'm going to disagree. Okay. I think Jack Eichel is going to benefit from, from this. Absolutely. Right. Because you kind of look at what happened in that Connor McDavid matchup and it's not going to happen often to him, right? He can go up against top competition and I think just crush them themselves and it's no big deal, whatever. And when you have

McDavid you're gonna need those extra reinforcements on you on his line and he got that and William Carlson I think Mark Stone is the best beneficiary here because Mark Stone He's one of my favorite players in the league right love the enthusiasm love the way he plays. He's so pesky He's so disruptive and he does it without necessarily being like the fastest skater in the world to you like he's such a smart guy but the reality is You know an 82 game seasons a lot of wear and tear a lot of deep playoff runs That's a lot of wear and tear and he's aging So I think if you have someone that can shoulder a little bit more of the burden

I wonder if that will help him, you know age a little more gracefully and help him in the long run I think if Marner's the number one winger and now you have Mark Stone as your number two at this point in his career and he still has Ways to go obviously, but he's dealt with a lot of injuries and a lot of back issues I think you're in a great position You know, I was talking to to Jonas a second ago We're just focusing on Eichel and and Marner and saying, you know Two selkie trophy candidates and completely forgot that you gotta throw Mark Stone in that conversation too Another selkie winger

Should have won one by now So here's the question that I'll put to you that I put to Jonas. You think of all the individual trophies, okay? The Heart Trophy, the Selkie Trophy, the Norris Trophy, the Rocket Richard, the Art Ross, all these awards and trophies. Is there one player, like think of a Selkie player,

think of a Norris player, think of a Norris player, think of a Hart player. Is there one player attached to a trophy that you should never trade? I know we'll always think Hart and Norris certainly because Big Time D are hard to find, but whether it's Patrice Bergeron or Alexander Barkov or Anjay Kopitar or Jonathan Taves, I could make the case for Selkie. Like when you have someone like that in your lineup, man, hold that player sacred. Hold that player sacred. What would you answer? Okay.

I'm going to go differently. I think the Selkie is a good one. Do you want to go for a walk around the pool with the pooch and think about this one for a second Listen don't tell me what the good time. Okay, I think the selkies a good one But I also think you can kind of split up that role and I think too with selkie conversations like you can have those guys who are never gonna win it in this day and age right because in The scoring and and the top here minutes kind of like lead the way in the conversation sometimes so guys like

Jarvis are never gonna win it because he's a winger or someone like Adam Lowry isn't gonna get the hype because he's a 3c and you can split up those matchups between shy flee and him now and they're Both going up against top competition. So I think that one you can break down in different ways to fill that spot I'm gonna go Norris because I think I think defensemen are so important on both ends of the ice, especially the new way you have to think about defense and not just defense in suppressing chances, chances, but extending offensive zone time or stopping something from happening in the first place. I think those are harder to come by. I think defensemen

can get very over and underrated. I also think that we know it can be really hard to find defensemen. Right. If you don't draft in and develop someone, you may never have that true number one defensemen. They don't make it to free agency. And when they do, they're going to make more than a pretty penny. So I'm going to say that is tougher to replace than a Salke guy. But I think it's really tight. There is another way to get a number one defenseman and you know it. Oh yeah, the Montreal Canadiens just managed to get one from the Islanders. Just hope that a team undervalues that player.

There's that, and I'm sure there's a backstory there that eventually we're all going to figure out and find out. You draft their brother. You draft their brother and eventually they'll want to go play with their bro. There you go. That's the way you do it. Speaking of defenders, I'm trying, I'm trying really hard not to just pound on the LA Kings, but I gotta ask. Oh don't don't waste your breath. Just just pound on them. They deserve it. Okay here we go. If I propose to you a trade that looked like this, Vladislav Gavrikov and Jordan Spence in exchange for Cody Cece and Brian Dumalin,

what would you say? It's a horrible offense. That's what happened. Yeah, that's what that is. That is bad business because you combine the cap hits for Dumalin and CC and you could have an overpaid Gavrikov who you know is a legitimate top four defenseman that can go up against top competition and do it quite well in LA. And I keep trying to find ways to give the Kings an ounce of slack because I know I've been tough on them, right? And I'm going, well, maybe they think this can be their third pair. Okay, then why are you paying all of this money

and committing this many years to third pair guys, right? Especially when you don't have enough pop and upside elsewhere on this blue line, besides Brant Clark now, because you got rid of Spence. Why would you want that to be your third pair instead of sheltered guys who can add a little bit of offense and help Drive play a little bit more with the third pair? Then you say, okay, well, they don't have to play the matchup minutes because Drew Doughty

is going to. Well, Drew Doughty is aging and at a certain point you're going to want to take a little bit off his plate and split that between the top four, which is what they've been doing. Well, you can't do that. Duhamelin is not fit for these minutes. Neither is Cody Cece. Their numbers are always going to look worse because they play that tough matchup minutes. But even when you factor in the context, what in your right mind would say, yes, that is

what we need. They now have three because you include Joel Edmondson. They have three one dimensional defensemen that have made this team older and slower. That's not how you beat the Oilers and you can't just only gear your team up for the Oilers, but that's not how you beat the best contenders in a speed and skill game. Especially when you're a team that doesn't get enough offense in the first place, right? So we can all say, well, the Kings have so much structure and the systems are so good, but the players help you maintain that system and that structure. And now you just blew up your blue line and dragged it back 10 years, I don't know what they're thinking.

When you said beat the Oilers, I do have to ask because now all of a sudden things are becoming more expensive for Edmonton, whether it's Trice Settles' contract and now Bouchard's contract, which is a 10.5 on the AAV, and they sign Andrew Mangiapani and I know everyone's looking back and saying he scored 35 goals once upon a time. Once! And generally he's 15 goal scorer as we've seen throughout the the career. 3.6 is the AAV there and there's still no change in net. I should have prefaced all this entire conversation by saying you know generally I try to wait until the end of the summer to see the full body of work until I judge it. So even if it's Ken Holland and the Los Angeles Kings, as bleak as it may look right now, there's part of me that says, don't judge it yet.

As bleak as things look with the Buffalo Sabres and their horrible, horrible asset management over and over and over again, and we saw it again yesterday and we saw it by you know not qualifying Jacob Bernard Docker who was once upon a time a key piece of a trade where they traded for a lesser and often injured center and gave up a really good center the Ottawa Senators and looked at it and said well don't forget we got Bernard Docker in this and then he was not even qualified and they had to attach a second round pick to get rid of a player and a salary. Even then I still say,

just wait until the summer is over. But how are you feeling about the Edmonton Oilers right now? I agree, we have to wait until the summer's over. But I also think we can talk shit about them and bully them as much as we want until they fix their mistakes. Okay, the Oilers are a tough one for me.

I think that they're clearing out caps based on the wings, which is important. I thought Arvidsson on paper was going to be a perfect fit for Leandre Settle, didn't happen. Okay, sure. They managed to clear out of Andrew Keynes cap in full. I think that's a good move too. Obviously now you have to replace those players.

I like the addition of Andrew Mangiapani, but I'm still going, okay, and next, like what are you going to do next? What other offensive threats are you going to bring in? Because I think Mangiapani is a good player. Like, I know he hasn't brought it on the score sheet consistently enough, but I think he has a lot of speed and some two-way strengths, which is a good thing to have in this middle six if you can attach him to someone strong. And the one for me, though, is Connor Brown on top of it. I actually really like Connor Brown at in this middle six if you can attach him to someone strong and um, I thought the one for me though is Connor brown on top of it. I actually really like Connor brown and Edmonton

I think the devil's got a great player. I think you're finally see him get back to get back up to speed You know, it took him a long time to come back from his injury and I think we forget How long these timelines are not just to come back to the lineup but be at full strength So that's a huge loss, but I think it's an okay enough start. They didn't overspend anywhere yet. They didn't do anything ridiculous where you go, oh my God, you're just hamstringing yourself some more. But you need to find cheap forwards now

to fill up that lineup and that's gonna be really tough. And then there's the goaltending part of it all. I think it's a good thing they did not spend on any of those free agents, because I don't think any of those free agents are better than what they have. And what they have is not very good. I think they need to get really creative on the trade market and look for their version of Mackenzie Blackwood, right? Where it's someone maybe on a bad team who's super inexpensive and they just need a new opportunity or Shilohs or that there's,

here's a team with now a potential three goalie situation, try to benefit from that. I think the trade market's the best route there, but I don't have faith in a Stan Bowman led team To do this the right way I don't think if even if you take all the baggage out of the picture, right? Even if we do all that at the end of the day I don't think he's a very good modern-day general manager. So good luck. Here's what I wonder about. Cause I'm with you, like I think it's going to be, you know, a three goalie situation where they're worried about losing

a goaltender on waivers and that is Vancouver. And that's Arthur Shilovs. Here's the name that I wonder about here. Tristan Jarre. And Tristan Jarre is well known in Edmonton. He plays junior hockey with the Oil Kings. Tristan Jarre's career has really been like roller skating down a gravel road in Pittsburgh. I do wonder if this is the needs the change of scenery trade and can change him around depending on who the goalie coach ends up being with the Edmonds and Oilers. With that getting 50% salary retention for the next three years.

Cause otherwise three years you're committing. All I'm saying is I know they just traded in the Dalkovich as well, but Blomkos is going to be the, the, the goalt the goaltender there I wonder if it ends up being Tristan Jarre because otherwise like scour the NHL like where are these goalies gonna come from there's not like a dozen goaltenders locked in a closet like okay who can find the key so all these teams that need goaltenders can finally get one like did all of a sudden the you can count on one hand the amount of like

elite level goaltenders there are in the NHL, and then there's a bunch of ones that are just like, okay, it's kind of like coaches. I kind of think that there's like five or six really good ones, and then a bunch of ones that are just okay, they're good coaches, and I kind of feel that way about goaltenders in the NHL right now. There's five or six that are super elite, and there's everybody else. Yeah, you have your elite elite starters, you have your bonafide number ones that are below and then you have your 1A's and 1B's. One team that's kind of interesting to me on the goalie front is going to be the Hurricanes getting Caden Primo and I know his stock has seriously dropped since his you know original value in Montreal but I look at someone

like Koczekow and I am kind of curious are they, are they aiming for one more year of Anderson and then going Kuchakov and Primo? Is that like, if that's the idea, then they're out of it. But I would be a little bit curious there. But then again, the part with like a goalie like Kuchakov, it's, it's right and wrong for all the, like all these weird reasons for the Oylers because they just crave someone chaotic in net. And I know they're saying like, Calvin Pickard's such a calming presence in the room

and on the ice. That might be true, but the way he plays is not calming. Care that with Stuart Skinner. No, it's ball hockey, it's ball hockey. It's a little ball hockey. Just chaos, yeah. It's a ball, Kachetkov's an interesting one. I've always loved him, but then I love that kind of style

of goaltender anyhow. Here's the thing about- Love to watch it, wouldn't want it on my TV. Oh, it's fantastic to watch. And that's why they keep going back to Freddie Anderson on evergreen deals. One year, one year, one year, one year, one year, one year. Like, Freddie's gonna be there,

seemingly forever just on this evergreen package that he has. Speaking of Carolina, what'd you make of the Kay Andre Miller trade with the New York Rangers? It's one of these rare deals I really like for both sides. Start with the Canes. I think that the Canes have a knack for maximizing defensemen within their system. They have done it time and time again. They do. They did it with Dougie Hamilton. They did it with Tony D'Angelo. I mean, come on, like, this is what they do. Keep going. it with Dougie Hamilton. They did it with Tony D'Angelo. I mean, come on, like, you keep going. Yeah. And look at Brady Shea once he leaves the Canes.

I know it's like the perfect example. Brad Pesci. Keep going. Keep going. Another. It keeps going. Walker, Shane Gosser. You look at them on the third pair. You know, like these are guys, they know how to plug them in and they know how to get the best out of them. And I think that Kendra Miller has all of these raw tools and raw skills to become that guy and become that $7.5 million defenseman.

He was never going to be it in New York though, ever. It just wasn't, year after year, the coaching, the decision-making, the pairings they've put him in, you can't blame Jacob Trubba anymore, but you can blame the fact that he was good with Adam Fox. They took him away from Adam Fox and Phil Housley system was a wreck and nobody did anything, right? They never got the best out of him So I think he needed a start somewhere else to be that guy and I think the Canes is a perfect landing spot for him I think the contract is a risk when you look at the money Could he become the next Essel and Dale that money's gonna look great?

But there are also some really scary names, you know, that rank similarly to him at this age. Right. But I like the bet for them knowing their track record. And I think he brings the skill this blue line needs, right? He's going to play behind Slaven. That's a great thing to have. That field is a very good partner for him. But I think with the Canes, we know the system works to an extent, but I think if they want to go further than they've gone before, they need more skill within it. I think he's that from the ranger side of it. I think Gavrikov is the shut down presence they wanted Keandre Miller to become and they couldn't get him to that level. And after last year's chaos, you can't bet on 100 rebounds and hope it's going to be

different under a new coaching staff. At a certain point, you're going to make changes. Is it a good thing to give up on a young guy like Andrew Miller? No, it is not. It's par for the course in New York because they draft these guys and they don't develop them properly. But on the other hand, you look at the contract Gavrikov got, the fit that makes so much sense because we know he's a good shut down top four guy that can either play with Fox or carry a second pair. And it makes sense. And then you add in someone like Morrow who also has these raw skills and also needs some work, but that's you're betting on a 22 year old

to become that guy when he's on the last year of his entry level deal versus the guy looking for a big time contract like Miller just got. It makes sense for both sides of it. I actually really like the trade on both sides. Let me ask one more thing about one more team. The New York Islanders, it seems ever since Matthew Darsh took over, it has been and we can quibble about the Noah Dobson return perhaps. I think they got a

really good return on Noah Dobson. There was clearly something there between him and Patrick Waugh, but we'll see how this all plays out as the summer goes along and we try to figure out more of what went wrong with the Islanders and Noah Dobson. But I'll be honest with you, I look at this team now and say am I allowed to be excited a little bit for the New York Islanders? All of a sudden signs of life, signs of personality, signs of direction and not just a Gordian knot of bad contracts to aging players. This is all inside of a couple of weeks here with Matthew Darsh.

Yeah, it just shows why they should have done this way sooner, right? Well, we all know that. We all know that. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, it's not an easy situation to navigate. I'm going to quibble about the fact that I don't think they should have moved on from Dobson if him and Patrick Waugh didn't get along. Guess what? I'm siding with the guy

that could win a Norris trophy one day. I don't care that he wants 10 million. That's the price of an illegal drug. I'm just wondering if that's what it is. Like it's got to be something. It's got to be something. Well, and even say it was the contract. You don't want to make that bet or people, you know, look at it like, oh, okay, but they're going to get Matthew Schaefer. Well, guess what? Your best blue line is going to have both of them. Just like now, Montreal is going to have Dobson and Hudson. It's a good problem to have too many good defensemen. But I don't think you smell low on someone who's young enough to be a part of the retool. But even if we put all that aside and forget about the fact that they got to draft picks back,

that you're going to hope someday amount to a player like Noah Dobson. I feel like I'm talking about the team straight all over again. But even if we set all that aside, the direction is a breath of fresh air in every which way. This is the kind of thinking you need because I like that they said, hey, this is what we're retooling. And this is how we're going to do it. And they're committing to it, right? I still think there's more to come. There's some bad contracts they might try to get rid of it's going to be interesting to see how they navigate Sazekis and Peugeot and players like that. But like someone like Jonathan Druin, it's going to be interesting to see how he does without Nathan McKinnon. I think on paper he looks like a good fit with someone like Barzell. That's a lot of skill you can have. And it's, it's not a contract that bogs you down. I think they did a great job at the draft too. And I think it's the first time in a long time you can honestly say that because the picks in the Lou era you were questionable every single time. So now you're actually getting some star potential. Let me ask you about what let me ask you about one player you just mentioned, and that's Casey

Sazekis. I know it's not the biggest superstar on the team. But I'll tell you, if I'm if I'm Matthew Darsh right now, given how coming off the another Stanley Cup victory by the Florida Panthers and how much everybody covet players quote unquote, like that's got two years of two and a half million dollars per very, very manageable contract. Players like this are very, very attractive right now. If you're Matthew Darsh, do you strike on that right now and move Casey Sazekis and let me go one step further. Now that Matt Martin has joined as an advisor to the general manager, do you

get Matt Martin to tell his teammate that he's been traded? Just cold business. Just kind of like how Mike Greer bought out a former teammate in Mark Edward Vlasic. Cold, Gina Goldman. Cold business of hockey. Cold. I think it would be nice. Hey, hey, bestie, I've gone through this before. I want to let you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think it's nice to have a friendly shoulder being the one to deliver that news. So I don't hate that element of it. I agree with you though, a hundred percent, because at the end of the day, I think Sousikas has always been the most important part of that fourth line, right?

That identity, that everything he was a great penalty killer. You look at the early trots years and how good he was. I think he never got his due and the hype he deserved. But having said all that, at the end of the day is two more years on this contract. And yes, he could be that stabilizing fourth force on the fourth line. You can find that, right? You have replaceable talent. You can find it. And they have so many bottom sixers there that I don't think it's an issue. You trade them to the highest bidder and he can go on and hopefully actually play for a playoff team for the next few years because his timeline is never going to match up with the teams now that they're committing to this retooling process. No way.

So you absolutely do it. I love it. I don't know what your summer plans are, but we're going to go all the way through. Not every day is going to be a reduced schedule and I'm going to say this and not mean it. We're going to try not to bug you too much. Yeah, okay. I can't even say that. Yeah, okay. They're laughing. I'll see you in two weeks. Yeah, okay. What's the text you're gonna get from me? It's a Shade Day. It's a Shade Day. I mean you went with it originally, Shade Day, and I'm like,

listen, there's already a name for this. Like, if my friends have plans with me, it's a Shade Day, so I didn't come up with it. So it's nice. I send it early knowing that it's going to take a couple of hours to get a response. Take no offense. You know what? I saw it this morning and I went to answer it and I, I saw it. I was up at like eight, eight 30. And I just like, I see my texts and I leave them on red because if I click them, I know I'll never circle back. And I was like, after coffee, I'd like, I like I I'm not I'm not there yet deal with him after I'll deal with any text and because I can read it and process it but I don't know if my text will be eligible back do do the best it is once again a some

finishes sentence it is a summer of dill oh! Oh my god, I got a new chip! I will say you're a favorite here. Do you have it nearby? Costco has... Do you have it nearby? Can you do show and tell? I don't. Oh, okay. I don't have it nearby. My sister was at Costco and was on the hunt for them. They are, I think, Grillo's Pickle potato chips.

My favorite pickles. Yeah. What? Grillo's is making potato chips? Yeah. They're at Costco.illo's making potato chips? Yeah. They're at Costco. It's like a Costco, I don't know if it's an exclusive, but like they have them there. It's a, of course, a Costco size bag.

Very excited. I will give you a nice review. I've been, listen, I let you know about the Sonic ones. I let you know about the ones at the Met Game. Yeah. Now I just need the dill pickle ramen. Like cup of noodles, dill pickle ramen. Dill pickle ramen?

I love that dill pickle. Was it dill pickle lemonade you sent me? The picture you sent me? Dill pickle lemonade? Oh yeah, that was Popeyes. How was it? That was good. They also had this like pickle slushy, but I didn't get it because I was already getting

another drink and I was like, you know what? Like let me focus on the food element of it. I was I want to circle I want to go back there. Yeah, I was like, you know, it's too much pickle. I didn't know if it'd be overwhelming or like if it would take away from the flavor of something else. And I was really curious on the burger tots and fries. So I was like, let me let me focus here. I admire your discipline. I would have just gone for quality over quantity,

volume, volume, volume. I don't care how smug it is. That's usually my move. It's like the old chocolate chip, which like how much more chocolatey can I be? Never enough. All right, you're the best. Let's chat soon.

Thanks so much for sharing your brain with us for 30 minutes. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you too. From the athletic in the Too Many Men podcast, first it. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you too. From the athletic in the Too Many Men podcast, first star always, lover.

Okay, Zach, as we wind things down here, we got one more thing to do, but I wanna tell people sort of what the schedule is gonna be in the next little while. You are going somewhere. So you are getting up into the magic jet and taking off with your significant other. Now how long you gone?

14 days. And you are going to? Portugal. Off to Portugal for 14 days. Stopping around in a bunch of different spots in Portugal while we're there. So should be a lot of fun. I've never... This is going gonna shock you after you found out that I haven't traveled across Canada.

I've never really gone anywhere in Europe. So like I've been to Sweden, Finland for hockey. You've been to the hockey countries. You've been to the hockey countries in Europe. I played hockey when I went there. I played tournaments there. And then, so I've been to Europe for two weeks. I love it. I've been to Europe, the hockey countries. I went to Portugal for two weeks.

Okay, so I've never been to Portugal, always wanted to go. Looks beautiful, wonderful people. Cork, lemons, and diving dogs. That's what I want full reports on because those are the three things that I know about Portugal. Cork, lemons lemons and diving dogs Okay, sounds good. I've got like I you should see you guys should see the stuff My girlfriend has like loaded up for me. Like I have a new wardrobe. I have like what are you wearing new?

like new sunglasses Like all the colored shirts linen pants like it's all on my bed beside me right now. Did she get you one of those bathing suits that's so tight we can see what religion you are? No, none of that. I refuse. That's not happening. No, no, none of that. Okay, we'll have to clear that from your mind everybody, but I'm sure you'll have a great time. That's awesome. Come back well refreshed. We're off for a couple of days here. So this program will return on Monday. Am I getting Vacation Vic to produce? Am I really getting Vic? Yeah, how about that? I'm going on vacation and you're getting vacation Vic.

Well, it's because the the couple boys are done too, right? So like Vic's sitting around counting his toes. So he's got to do something. So he might as well do this program. So that starts on that starts on Monday. So also, I tried to set this up so that I wasn't missing as much of the show. But it's like it's hard. When we start when we start breaking down the schedule of everything we start ramping up we were we were told like hey maybe we're gonna be doing some stuff in August there that will work through and we'll talk there's some ideas and everything so we've got to be back for August and then Alburga goes

away which means I host morning take when he goes away he goes away in August so I've got to be here for that. And I was like, okay, I think this is the only time. And then I'm like, well, it is what it is. Like, and the more we go. You know how like you made the joke about before the draft on Friday, you're like, oh yeah, you know it's gonna end up being a five hour draft.

And I said, don't say that. And it ended up being a five hour draft. Five hour draft. It was like, you kept and it ended up in a five-hour draft It was like you kept saying you've made a joke a couple of times where you were like Well, the hockey season pushes longer and longer Yeah, and my girlfriend will like tune into the show and she's heard you say that and she's like, is he serious? Like we're booking this trip like we're supposed to be I was like we'll figure it out. Tell him to shut up. Tell him to stop.

Give me anxiety here. I can't sleep in it. There's only so much Z equal I can drink. I need to be able to have a good night's sleep here. I'm like, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. We'll be okay. We'll figure it out. So, yeah, I'm off, but then come back. Here's what you need to do. Here's what you need to do then.

When you're all chilled out, you're on the beach, right? After a long day. Maybe you had a couple of glasses of wine Just nuzzle up next to her and whisper into her ear In two years, it'll be 84 games the season And they'll add around the playoffs they're out of playing around do And they'll add around the playoffs. They're out of play in round two Juice the revenue home. God. Okay So the last time for a couple of weeks for you and me on this one The sheet is powered by fan duel home of the same game parlay make every moment more on fan duel fan duel proud to connect

Fans the major sports moments that matter to them What are we talking about today? No drafts that matter to them. What are we talking about today? No traps, urgency winding down. What are our friends at FanDuel have up their sleeve? What do they got cooking? What are we doing? This one's not that exciting.

I tried, this one was tough, but in the nature of coming off of free agency and winners and losers, I went to the 2026, or 2025, 2026, in the nature of coming off of free agency and winners and losers. Okay. I went to the 2026 or 2025 2026 that is okay. Stanley cup winners board. And I found this, the Florida Panthers are now in sole possession of first place of the leader for the Stanley cup odds for next season. It was the Carolina hurricanes. The Panthers were behind them,

the Golden Knights have jumped up from about sixth and where they were about plus 1000 plus 1100 depending on where when you were looking into third, the Oilers slid down a bit, the Stars moved up a little bit. Is there anybody in your opinion that is missing from here that maybe I guess it's hard because we're talking about how we don't want to crown winners and losers where the Preds probably would have been up there yesterday after yesterday but anybody that you think like we're missing I'm missing Van Duel's missing or was demoted too much? No you know what never... I know it's been tough recently. I always have a hard time betting against Tampa. And I always think that Tampa has the horses to win the Stanley Cup. I really, really do.

And for the Florida Panthers, doesn't all of this have to catch up to you eventually? Like when you talk about like, this is like a literal Stanley Cup hangover. Like when's the last time you saw a team party this hard after winning the Stanley Cup and pushing their summer training off another week, get another week, get another week, get another week, get another week. Eventually this has got to catch up to you, right? They can't keep doing this, right? Back to the Stanley Cup final again, four years in a row. I don't know, man.

I can't know if they've kept the band together and I was in love with them. Great team. Why not? One of the best teams in this era. Hands down. Fantastic. It's got to catch up to you. All these games.

Yeah. The thing is like the weather. You feel better. You do. You talked about that. You talk to players. You feel better from it. You recover easier. You recover better. Yes. Maybe some of them stay down there. Like all those things are very real. Yeah and I don't know like whenever I go, whenever I go to Florida, I feel great when I wake up in the morning. I feel awesome. Like all throughout the day your body feels so good The other thing to throw out is like

the extended Breaks that will be experienced that haven't been last year and this upcoming season between four nations and Olympics. I feel like it almost Not completely but it it levels the playing field a little bit more. Because not everybody on Florida is going to the Olympics. Not everybody on every other team is going to the Olympics either,

but it's a lesson schedule. It's not gonna be as physical at the Olympics this year. Sorry, relative to Four Nations, that is, I'm trying to say, because just by nature of how the game's officiated it can't be. Yeah. I don't know, like does that help even it out? Like I do think that kind of gives Florida that fresh air. You know what's going to happen? You know what's going to happen? Again, not that you're cheering for it, but it's just a reality of things that are going to happen.

We've seen it with Hasek, we've seen it with Tavares. The Olympics is going to cost someone the playoffs. It's going to either cost them a playoff spot or cost them a shot at the Stanley Cup. Some teams goalie. I always go back to that Dominic Haschuk and his like angel hair past the groin. That just say pop and then that was it for the Ottawa Senators man. And they would beg them to get on the ice, try, try, nope. If I'm not 100% I'm not stepping on the ice. It cost a sense.

Like the sense of that era were probably in this, I had to think about it more, but off top of my head I would say the Ottawa Senators of this past 20 years, the best team not to win the Stanley Cup. When they had Hasek Yeah, and No, but the yeah, he's gonna have a body count. It will it always will plus the guys are gonna be going like crazy To win a gold medal It is true. Yeah

That the effort will be there. Yeah. Yeah It's gonna be longer than four nations. So I just going to be three games and then run. But it's draw. It's what it's guaranteed five. Isn't it? Or is it longer than that? I'm kind of speaking out of my ass here. I don't know. I think it might be longer. I think it might be longer that but I'm speaking out of my ass too. I'm not 100% sure. But still like those games are going to be super intense. I can't wait for it's going to be great. Don't come here for facts we all want it listen if you

want facts that can I are gonna have to get paid more it's a message to Jay down our boss you like I'm sorry hate to negotiate on the air but if you want us to tell the truth and facts I'm sorry that that that's not part of the deal listen that's it for this program today. We are back on Monday So a couple of days off do to enjoy yourself in Portugal have a great time remember I want to report on three things. Do you remember what they are? corks Jumping dogs diving dogs enough diving lemons. What was the other lemons lemons?

Why why the lemons? I know the other. Isn't it like they don't have like the most lemon lemon trees in the world? Portugal? You're about to find out. My girlfriend probably knows. Your girlfriend's gonna be like, how come you don't know? Like you idiot. Like you fall down a flight of stairs. Like yeah, Portugal and lemons. Now every time you go by a lemon tree in Portugal, you need to think about me. So I, yeah, that's gonna happen. And a point at the end, like, hey, hun, look, another lemon tree.

Will you stop talking about Merrick? Leave the show back home. Stop it. Yeah. I don't even know what days we're going to what. She has that. She has the itinerary. Well, we'll figure it out. We'll see how it goes. It's like my, it's like my old co-host Bill Waters used to say, Jeffy, I'm like a goat's prick. I go where I'm put. Just go where you're put. Just go where you're put, Zach. Just let her lead you along. There you go.

That's on that lovely note. Thanks to Jonas Segal for stopping by the show today. Thanks to the great Shannon Goldman for stopping by as well. Thanks to you for yesterday and today and all season long. Not that we're wrapping up here. We're just going to go to a different style of schedule, but we ain't going anywhere. No, sir. Not. We're not one of these like we're heading off to the cottage in Pisa. We'll see you at training camp. No chance. Still things happening. So we're still going to talk about it here on the sheet. Hope to have you aboard for all of it Thanks for all of your attention Since I came aboard here at the nation network Thanks to all the fun in the chat, which is always lively and sometimes insulting too

And now we have a fight challenge in today's chat, which is interesting as well So that's a that's a little bit of spice in the chili Thanks so much for for everything the show goes off the air back on the air again on Monday at 3 o'clock Eastern I have no idea what's happening with the other shows right now Morning Cup of hockey they're gone I may try to drag Lazar Kolby onto one of my broadcasts here But they may just say I'm I'm pieced out for the summer and I can respect that but hope to have you aboard Either your ears or your eyeballs or both. Thanks so much for the support. We'll talk to you on my way. I went to the dark man, he tried to give me a little medicine I'm like, nah man, that's fine

I'm not against those methods but no It's me, myself and Alice gon' be fixing my mind I do want the record I turned on the music I do want the record up I do want to use it There's enough there about that you're sometimes losing Helping on the days that went wrong