The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Soft Tampering ft. Patrick Burke

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

Jeff Marek reacts to the biggest stories from the weekend including John Tortorella's displeasure with the officiating, Igor Shesterkin's contract extension, Michael Andlauer's 'tampering' accusation, and has Patrick Burke of the NHL Department of Player Safety stop in to discuss head contact...--------------------------------------------Connect with us on ⬇️Daily FaceoffX: https://x.com/DailyFaceoffInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/dailyfaceoff/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoff/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dailyfaceoff?lang=en Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com/The SheetX: https://x.com/thesheethockey Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesheethockey/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thesheethockey Daily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at one you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Okay, welcome to the program. This one is going to be scrambly. I just heard something a moment before we went on the air, which may come to fruition over the course of the next 60 minutes. So excuse me if I seem a little bit distracted on today's show. You may end up, if you're watching this live on

YouTube right now, just ending up looking at the top of my head a lot as I stare down into my phone trying to solve something here. Apologies for the vagueness, but we'll see what comes back there. Maybe something going on here. Sorry to be so vague. Anyhow, hello. How are you today? Glad to have you aboard. Thanks for joining me for the second week of the sheet. And one of the things that I wanted to go over at the top of the show here tonight, or today rather, is the Jacob Truba situation, which has now spilled into this week. And there's one issue involving Jacob Truba. And listen, he commented on it as he was traded from the Rangers to the Anaheim Ducks. And it's one thing that sort of always stuck out to me. And I got a couple of thoughts after I published an idea

that I had on the blog at dailyfaceoff.com. So I got one GM to weigh in on it. And he brought up a couple of interesting points. I want to share that with you here in a couple of seconds. But this is the idea of players waiving no trades and players waiving no move clauses. Kelly Rudy, former NHL netminder, Islanders, Kings and Sharks, has always... Oh, okay. Hang on a second. Zach just said, hang on a second. Here's the deal really quick. second. Zach just said, hang on a second. Here's the deal really quick. The trade has been, Friedman beat me, Mackenzie Blackwood to Colorado. I think there might be one other player going the other way to Colorado that I'm trying to get confirmation on. No idea what's going back the other way, but this just fell in my lap like two seconds before the show began. Again, apologies if this show sounds scrambly. If you're listening to the podcast right

now, you know the entire deal, I'm guessing. But as we're doing this right now, I'm scrambling anyhow to find all the pieces here. I think there's at least one more going from San Jose to Colorado. Haven't been able to nail that down. Now, where was I? Really quickly. So Kelly Rudy's philosophy, and I believe in this one. I really agree with this one. You should, as long as a player has a no-move clause, you should not be able to ask that player to waive that no-move clause, because that was something essentially that was bargained in good faith. And because you can't give anything up, you can't compensate a player for waiving the no trade clause or the no move clause, essentially what you're asking the player to do is this, give me something in exchange for nothing.

Now, the CBA itself precludes you from doing it, so it's not as if this is a choice by the team. You're just not allowed to do it. So here's my proposal. If you have a player and you would like that player to waive their no-move clause or waive their no-trade clause to go to a very specific team, You should, in the next round of negotiations, if I'm the players association, this is one of the things that I'm going after, be able to compensate that player. There should be an agreed upon set amount of money that is put aside and negotiated, let's say it's $500,000. So therefore, all of a sudden, now you have a business arrangement. If you do this, I will give you that.

Because the arrangement now is you do this because we want this. This is a favor. Or we're going to get into sticky situations involving threats and scratchings and waivers, et cetera, that leaves a sour taste in everybody's mouth. But if the New York Rangers were able to go to Jacob Truba and say, look, in the CBA, it says, you know, if we give you a million dollars, for example, because Jacob Truba has a healthy contract. Again, this will have to be negotiated and have to be standard. We'll give you a million dollars if you agree to waive to go to the Anaheim Ducks. Caveat here is, and I know the NHL doesn't want money outside the system,

this doesn't count against anyone's salary cap. This is just for the player and the player alone. And it does, by the way, have to be a preset amount, or else you're going to get even more complications with negotiations about what that number could be. So it needs to be either a set amount or a percentage of contract. Okay? Do you like this idea? See, for me, what it does is it sets up a legitimate transaction. And that is, you do this, I give you that. Seems a little bit more fair, doesn't it? Who says no to this idea? What do you think, chat? What do you think, tweeters? What do you think, Xers? Compensating players for agreeing to waive their no trade,

no move. Win-win, right? Welcome to The Sheet for Monday, December the 9th, Blackwood, going to Colorado. So one of the things that I was texting with the GM about this morning, about this idea, lower tax markets and higher tax markets. And this GM says, if you're going to a lower tax market, then it's a certain dollar figure. If you're going to a higher tax market, then it's a difference in tax payments. And then adds, finally, the poor downtrodden teams in New York and Toronto can catch a break for the incredible financial inequity the rules force upon them. I always love it when GMs take shots at Toronto and New York. Anyhow, welcome to the program today. Glad to have you aboard.

Sorry for the scrambly open, but the latest news breaking. As of right now, Elliot has Mackenzie Blackwood going to Colorado. I believe there is one other piece minimum going there. I'm trying to nail down who that is. And as of right now, since I'm on the air with you, I can't do that. So that is the news of the day. A lot of things coming up on the program today, including the VP of the Department of Player Safety. He is Patrick Burke. He is the son of Brian Burke, who you hear Fridays here on this program. And, you know, Patrick's a fascinating guy. And in his

role, he's part of those meetings when you're meeting out justice. You're sitting right next to George Peros and debating and discussing and going over pixel by pixel various hits and various bad behaviors that we see on the ice. Also, he's a big part of what goes into the skills competition in the NHL that we see all-star weekend every year. And there is, I'll get Patrick's thoughts on this when we can clear the air on it. There is a belief that last year's skills competition,

which was really good, was a production of Connor McDavid. That this way, these were Connor's ideas and he was putting this whole thing together, et cetera. I'm not so sure that that's true, but one way or the other, we're gonna get a straight answer out of Patrick Burke coming up here in a couple of moments.

And also some great stories about him and his dad. I'm going to share some of my fondest stories about Big Berkey, as Patrick calls him. So that's still to come as well. In the meantime, Zach Phillips, what do we have on an action-packed show today? What do we have on an action-packed show today, knowing that we may just have to pivot really quickly if this Mackenzie Blackwood deal ends up getting announced, Blackwood to the Colorado Avalanche. They've got their goalie.

Coming up today on the program, we already talked about it a little bit off the top. Jacob Trouba's Anaheim Ducks will face off against Montreal Canadiens later on this evening, one of three games on the board. We'll talk about the Jacob Trouba situation and how he felt a little bit miffed. Again, I have the remedy for it. All you got to do is clean it up in the CBA. Is there an appetite for it? John Tortorella says, get off the diving board. Not my Philadelphia Flyers. We don't do that, but everybody else does. We'll talk about

diving in hockey. My personal belief on diving is that everybody embellishes. Everyone embellishes, but there's a line between embellishment and diving, and it seems to be different from everybody. Hopefully we can get that conversation. I mentioned Patrick Burke's coming up on the program here in about 10 minutes. Patrick's awesome. And one of the things you're going to notice right away, he sounds just like his dad. It's uncanny. I love it. I think it's fantastic, but I like that. Let's get ready to grumble kind of voice that the Burke family has. Patrick and Brian, it's fantastic. Also, we'll talk about tampering. How would you like your tampering today, Ottawa? Soft or hard? Michael Andlauer accusing the New York Rangers

of soft tampering vis-a-vis the Larry Brooks reports last week about the Rangers targeting Brady Kachuk. And why wouldn't you? And again, from the Ottawa point of view, why would you even think to entertain an offer like that? We'll get into that. And also, here's my question. And this is for, I had a generation gap moment between me and Zach before the show started today. And this is for, I had a generation gap moment between me and Zach before the show started today. Tom Wilson, after getting a Jacob Chikrin shot in the face, does he now look like the late John Kordick?

That's for the older folks in the audience here tonight that knows who John Kordick is. When I said, hey, Zach, do you think Tom Wilson looks like John Kordick? Zach said to me, who's John Kordek? And I felt really, really old. By the way, Marcus Walensky wrote a great book on John Kordek. If you're interested, I highly recommend reading that one. And some junior hockey stuff going on. We've got a packed show today. If we can get to all of it, bless us.

A lot of stuff going on around junior hockey. There is a Board of Governors meeting in the QMJHL this week. Expect the move from Akadi Bathurst, the Titan, to Newfoundland to get the royal assent or the stamp of approval, but don't expect an announcement anytime soon. There will have to be some type of decision on Youngstown and Muskegon, two USHL markets, the OHL visiting last week. The USHL has told teams that they need to know whether they're in or out by the end of December. So those teams are going to have to make up their minds. And so is the OHL. My guess is two new teams in the OHL starting next season, Youngstown and

Muskegon, as I reported not too long ago, and then I've picked up the conversation lately as that has sort of heated up. So that's going to be the show today. Patrick Burke coming up here in a couple of moments. One thing that before we get to Patrick, I want to get into John Tortorella versus the refs. Have a thought on this one, Zach. And do we have the John Tortorella audio from last week? Yeah, I do. We'll play it here first and foremost so we can get into that and hear what he had to say. Yeah, let me start. Okay. One thing I teach my team to do is not dive. Maybe I should start teaching them that. The way this has gone here, the way it goes on, maybe I should start teaching them how to dive. Obviously, penalties

a factor today, but five on five, were you happy with the body of work, especially in the first period? We played our ass off. Yes, I thought we played really well. When you feel like that, like you just said, those comments you made, what does it mean to you, especially defending your guys like that, that you feel like maybe something was stolen from you guys tonight? Yeah, I'm not going to go too deep into it. It's one of the things we talk about most as a team. We're going to play an honest game. There's no cheating. There's no embarrassing

referees. You don't embarrass the referees. And the shit that went on here tonight is just ridiculous. So I'm proud of the way our team played. Did we piss another one away? Yeah. But other people had a little bit to do with that also. Have I mentioned that I love John Tortorella?

And when I look at that guy, I always got to sort of put on my like John Tortorella decoder ring. Like, wait, what's he trying to do here? And it's pretty obvious he's trying to curry favor with the officials by saying, look at how these other awful hockey players are trying to insult you and trying to trick you. I would never do that. So I am much, much, you know, what's going on here. Now, Zach, real quick, I said, do you have Patrick standing by? I want to make one quick point here. Not yet. You're good. Not yet. Okay. Let me know when Patrick is standing by. So one of the things that I've

always maintained is when you're on the ice as a player, obviously a couple of things are going on here. One, you're trying to score a goal, but two, you're always trying to put yourself in a favorable position or your team in a favorable position. You know, I've talked to countless players about why they show their numbers at the boards. And the answer always comes back the same. One, it's a great way to protect the puck, but two, if someone hits me, I put our team on the power play. I believe that every player out there is trying to put themselves in a position to either score a goal or in some cases, draw a penalty. And as such, do some players go down a little bit light? Around the crease, they certainly do. I still maintain that because players get cookies for it all the time from their head coach I still maintain that all players carry with them a level of embellishment that we haven't seen in

the past and all you have to do is go back and look at older games and watch how players go through the neutral zone I want to get there in a. But there is a fine line between I'm going to embellish to try to draw a penalty and diving. And the thing is, it's different for everybody. A dive for me is not a dive for Zach, might be a dive for you, might be not a dive for someone sitting or standing next to you right now or sitting next to you in the car. If you go back, in the summers, what I do is I try to go back and watch old games. And I recently watched the 1986 Stanley Cup final and specifically watched how things went on through the neutral zone. And everybody's skating through the neutral zone. All of them, pretty much all of them had a stick on their hips.

We're getting hooked. We're getting slashed. And you know what they did about it? They bent their knees and they skated through it. It was much different than it is today, I assure you. Right now, the neutral zone in the NHL is fly zone, fly zone, fly zone. Back then, you were getting assaulted regularly in the neutral zone and guys stood and skated through it. It wasn't pretty, it was pretty ugly hockey,

but the guys skated through it. Now, what is the default setting for hockey players when they feel a stick on their hip? You know the answer. Or a little tap on the hockey pants going through the neutral zone or a tap on the shin pads. You know what happens. Some would say that's embellishment. Others would say that's diving. I think all players embellish. But again, I don't know where the line is. Maybe just when it's so obvious that you have to call it what it is. All players embellish. I i don't know where the line is maybe just when it's so obvious that yet you have to call it what it is all players embellish i just don't know where embellishment turns into diving that's john tortorella versus the uh not really versus the officials but i think that's john tortorella trying to to curry favor with the officials by saying that it is the other teams

you understand. They are the ones. They are the ones that are diving, but not us noble Philadelphia Flyers. Thank you very much. Michael Ann Lauer. So the insiders on TSN today, Pierre Lebrun, Darren Drager, and Chris Johnston, along with Gina Arreta, the host at the Board of Governors meetings, had a really spirited exchange about Michael Ann Lauer's accusations towards the New York Rangers over what Ann Lauer refers to as soft tampering. Now, this will be an incredibly difficult one to prove. Here's Pierre Lebrun now. Let's have a listen.

It happened last week, and I can tell you, Michael Ann Lauer did not hold back in his frustration and anger that that report was out there. He called it soft tampering, quote unquote, twice during this interview as far as what he considers something that the league should be cracking down on. And he's upset because, as he says, it's the third time since he's been the owner of the Ottawa Senators that they've had to put out a fire concerning rumors around Brady Kachuk and other teams being interested in him. Michael Anler made it clear to me. He has not spoken. The Senators have not spoken to one single team in the National Hockey League about Brady Kachuk at any time.

He's their captain. He's going to be their captain long term, according to Michael Anler. Well, look where we are. Okay, so that is Pierre Lebrun. And by the way, I always love CJ's look on television. CJ's got the absolute, absolute best look on TV. So first of all, it's going to be incredibly hard to prove. Second of all, I'm understand the frustration from Michael Andlauer's point of view. Not saying that the Rangers are tampering, but tampering kind of is a longstanding tradition in the NHL. And it used to, like when Gary Bettman took over in 1993, it used to always involve coaches. It was always around coaches. Like before there was,

you know, there was tampering. There was, there was, you know, Pat Quinn with the Kings and the Vancouver Canucks. There was Mike Keenan with St. Louis and Detroit. The Rangers got awarded Peter Nedved and that deal. There was always, and again, I'm not saying this is an official report going back to 1993, but there are 92 rather. There's always people sort of wondering about the situation with the Pittsburgh Penguins and New York Islanders before their series in the opening round and the then vacant Detroit Red Wings coaching position. You know, was Al Arbor offered that job before the series?

Was Scotty Bowman offered that job before the series? Those whispers were always out there and always have been out there. We'll spend more time on tampering it on another program, but this one's going to be incredibly hard to prove. But you do get the sense very much, and I think a lot of it is because the Ottawa Senators find themselves in the position that they are. You can get the sense that Michael Andlauer is not thrilled

the way things have gone for his team this season and wasn't thrilled to have to go to Brady Kachuk again and say, Brady, I know I've told you a thousand times. We are not trying to trade you. Everybody wants you, but you are going exactly nowhere. OK, still more to get to here on the program. In the meantime, really want to bring on Patrick Burke. He is the VP of the NHL player safety department, and he joins me now. Patrick, how are you today?

Thanks so much for joining me on the sheet. I'm good, buddy. It's now. Patrick, how are you today? Thanks so much for joining me on the sheet. I'm good, buddy. It's good to see you back on the air. Here we go. Hey, one more time. Fool him again. You know, bad penny can't throw me away. So here's my initial question for you, because you have a number of different hats in the NHL. When people say, when people ask you, what do you do for a living? What do you tell them? Because I usually say, I'm a bingo caller, or, you know, I say that's offside, that's icing, and we'll be right back. When people ask you, what do you do for a living? How do you answer? Depends on if I know they're a hockey fan or not, because with player

safety, I will often tell people I'm an accountant because they have no follow-up questions whatsoever about what the NHL accounting department does. But if you tell a hockey fan, you work in player safety, everybody has a thought about the time that you screwed over their favorite team. So if I'm trying to have a quiet night out, you know, if I go visit family in Toronto or something and we're out and someone goes, Oh, what do you do? I'm an accountant. I'm a very good accountant. As long as you have no follow-up questions about it. Um, what I actually do, um, watch hockey and wait for bad things to happen. Brendan Shanahan used to say our job was like sitting at the airport and waiting, watching planes land and waiting for the one to crash. And that's when you work. Yeah. You know, it's, uh, I've talked to your father cause your dad was

like, you know, essentially the first sheriff, like when this department was created, you know, it's, I've talked to your father, because your dad was like, you know, essentially the first sheriff, like when this department was created, you know, Big Berkey wore the sheriff's badge. And, you know, he would tell me stories like these were the days of VCRs, and they didn't have enough, you know, VCR tapes. So they wouldn't record the first period, because generally things don't happen in the first period. All the aggressive behavior happens in periods two and three. And so they'd be jockeying VHS tapes between VCRs back

and forth, trying to record everything. It's a lot different now, as we all know. I want to get into a couple of those stories with your dad. I'm curious what sort of advice he's given you. But I remember him telling me once, Patrick, he said, it's the worst job in the NHL because, you know, in the back of your head, and I'm sure George must feel like this too you wake up and you say I knew when I woke up everybody in the league felt that I was an idiot and I didn't know what I was doing because no one would would agree with all of my decisions on suspensions is that still accurate to this day yeah unfortunately yes I mean I think George Peros my boss and Damien Echeverrieta, who's in between me and George, I think they do an incredible job running the department and we've got a great group. And still, every time we suspend somebody or don't suspend somebody, everybody's mad. You know, one team thinks we didn't give enough. The other team thinks we gave too much. The fans think we're biased or that we're just against their team.

or that we're just against their team. It's kind of a no-win position. I think that George does an excellent job, like I said, and I think the best thing that we can do is continue to talk about what we do and explain our decisions. So we put out those suspension videos every time that we have a decision for a suspension. We recently put out a big explanation video

about Rule 48. I think every time that we explain what we do and how we do it, people get a new appreciation for just how hard we work, just how thorough the process is, just how conscientious we are about what we're doing. And we're not missing things or making stuff up on the fly. There is a thorough and complete process that we it's followed by very bright people who care a lot about getting this right. You might disagree with our end results, but the process is really strong and really well done. How far back do you trace precedent? I'm always curious because like, you know, there's, you know,

Sandstrom and Brown, for example, when I was younger, that was, I think it was 15 games that Brown got for, for cross-checking Thomas Sandstrom and that Philly New York Rangers game. And at that time I thought, Ooh, 15 games. We've seen it before and it doesn't get the same result. But then I say to myself, well, it's folly to take that standard from the 80s and apply it to 2024. How far back in your minds do you go with any type of precedent? I mean, Dale Hunter on Pierre Turgeon came up a couple of times last year.

But generally speaking, I would say that we look at a player's playing career you know i've been at the league 11 years now there's not many players who kind of predate me in the league so we're going back to our kind of um you know the last decade or so is really what's relevant for a player's specific history anything he's done when he's in the league is relevant to us but of course the more recent things are and the more similar things are, the more relevant they are to us. You know, if you've got a slashing suspension in your first game in the NHL,

then played another thousand games and then got an elbowing suspension, we're not sitting there going, wow, we really got to crack down on this guy. It's his second suspension. So recency, relevance, how similar plays are, that's what we worry about. It doesn't come up too often.

Like, Hey, remember when Shane Sherlock killed kept Pavel Bure? Those types of things aren't really brought up in our meetings. You know, just in his defense, Dale Hunter has always maintained. He never heard the whistle by the way, Perky. That's good to know. I think I was about three when that one happened. So when it comes up, I'm like, yeah, I don't recall that one, guys. Sorry. To me, if there's wood sticks involved, I don't think we have to pay too close attention. video that you put out. How long had you considered doing it? What was the feedback? And I'm curious, what type of feedback do you get from fans versus what type of feedback do

you get from players? We're always looking for moments where we can make a good explanation video. We don't do them too often because a lot of times there are people who feel like it might invite more questions and, you know, where do you draw the line? If we're putting out one of these a week, it's a ton of work. It's a ton of explaining. And fans are always going to say, like, well, you talked about these three plays, but not this one.

Like, sometimes having too much information out there just ends up causing more issues. We had the back-to-back suspensions with Tanner Janot and Ryan Reeves, both of which got some attention. Some big names involved, Darnell Nurse and Brock Besser, some Canadian teams involved, so a lot of media attention. And then I think it was maybe three nights later, we have a big hit on a Leafs player. White Cloud steps up on Nyes with a big, hard, somewhat high hit.

And we just saw those three plays as a great opportunity. Like, hey, people are talking about this. If you are listening to podcasts, if you're on Twitter or X or whatever it's called, people have a lot of questions about why one is a suspension or two were suspensions and one wasn't. And because it was so clear to us what the differences were, this is an easy one to make a video for. It takes a lot of work to make these videos. A lot of people have to work all day to get these videos out the door.

But it was one where we felt there were clear and obvious differences that we could show to people. How much does the Department of Player Safety, Patrick, take their lead from what the managers want? And I'll give you a very specific example. When, when Brendan Shanahan took over the position, I can recall there was that pre-season and I think Brendan Smith got dinged for like 10 for a high hit and the manager and Shanahan was like nailing guys, like five for you, 10 for you. It was like big numbers. And the managers went, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We didn't want numbers this big.

And essentially Shanahan said like, well, okay, like tell me how you want us to police this game. Is that accurate that the lead is taken by how the managers want the game to be called? I understand that for managers, it's only a problem when your bull gets scored. I get it. I understand that. But how much of this is sort of predicated by, well, this is how the managers want the game to be disciplined. Ultimately, yes. The general managers and the competition committee, which includes representatives from the NHLPA, we do answer to them. George answers to them and the board of governors. And if the feedback is more or less hard or soft or whatever, we do ultimately, we all have bosses, frankly.

There is a really good mutual respect and back and forth. The GMs know that we're the ones in the room watching every game as it happens and taking notes on everything. So when they say like, Hey, we're seeing a lot of elbows this year, we have guys on our staff who go back and pull up exactly how many elbows there were, um, can sort them by, you know, how, how dangerous, how, you know, do you really want this to be a suspension? Do you want this to be a suspension? Um, so there, there's a really, uh, I think healthy back and forth where if we come to them and say, Hey, we see a real issue here and we need to start cracking down, they'll listen and take Georgia's input. Uh, while at the same time,

they are regularly giving us input of their own and saying, Hey, you know, you aren't going hard enough on this play. This place should have been a little lighter. Um, and then we kind of build that into how we're building our, our strike zone for lack of a better term. I want to ask you about hearings. I can recall your dad, your dad was involved in one of my, one of my favorite stories that Marty McSorley told me this story when I used to work with Marty at the old shop and we're out having dinner.

And he said, I can recall getting phone calls from Brian. This is after the Lindros incident. So there was, so Marty told me this, he said, I can recall getting phone calls from Brian. This is after the Lindros incident. So there was, so Marty told me, he said, look, I used to always try to drag Lindros into a fight. I used to always try to fight Lindros. He would never take the bait. One day we're playing Philly. He scores a goal.

I take a run at him and Lindros snaps his mitts and goes for it right away. He's like, oh, geez, I can't believe I just did this with Marty. And he gets in tight and he bites me that's what marty says and there's a big hue and cry and in you know about you know marty marty mcsorley got bit lindros has to be suspended and marty tells me that your dad called him and said like marty we can't do anything with this unless you tell us that that this happened did eric lindros bite you and marty said ah berkey i don't know i yeah things happen in a fight i don't know a scratch or a bad i'm not sure and your dad says no no marty tell me did he bite you marty's i'm not sure and your dad goes okay i'm asking you

for the last time marty last time did eric let you know this is going, did Eric Lindros bite you? And Marty said he paused and he waited on the phone and he said, Brian, Eric Lindros did not bite me. Now you go and tell Bobby Clark he owes me one. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes.

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It was a much different time. I'm sure you've heard that story before. But I was going to say, you're asking if I've heard his stories before. I haven't heard every one of these stories a thousand times. Oh, by the way, did you know he drafted the Sedin twins? Have you ever heard that story? Did your dad ever tell you that story? I was there when it happened.

We were at Father's Day brunch the day that the first trade went down. So I know exactly how it went down. My older sister was livid at him for interrupting Father's Day brunch to take a phone call to make the trade for McCabe and a first for the fourth overall pick. To start the ball rolling on one of the biggest trades the NHL has ever seen, how dare she? But as far as the hearing process goes, it's a lot more sophisticated than, did he do this to you? Yeah, I mean, to be fair, we've had two biting incidents

since I've been at the league and one of which we couldn't do anything even though the player was saying he definitely bit me because we didn't enter shaw victor headman we didn't have on video um showing that uh that he bit him um so uh it is a different league now and we don't just necessarily take players words for it um with all you know we have the advantage of 100 different camera angles, which Big Berkey didn't have. But an actual hearing is George Peros. When we have an incident, we'll call the team and we'll call the NHLPA and say, hey, we're setting up a hearing for tomorrow or the next day, whenever it might be. Then we have to wait to hear back from all of them. So a lot of times fans are like,

you announced this one really quickly. And the next time you, you know, you didn't announce the hearing for a full 24 hours. Like what, what gives you, you're moving so quickly. And it's like, well, actually someone just answered their texts faster. Like one time we were delayed because the team was traveling for six hours and no one was, was connected to the wifi, I guess. So, um, there's a lot of logistics behind the scenes. Anyway, we get onto a hearing it It's George Peros. It's our senior staff, which is Damian Echeverrieta, myself, Stefan Cantel, Ray Whitney, and our newest hire, Ryan Getzlaff. Then on the team side, you'll have the GM and usually, or sometimes the coach, maybe an assistant GM. You'll have the player, you'll have the player's agent, and then you'll

have a representative from the NHLPA. We go through, the player gets a chance to explain how he saw the play and what went down. The GM or the coach or the assistant GM, you know, whoever is on there from the team gives an explanation of what they saw. They can introduce any comparable plays, any similar things that they saw. The agent is on there to give a character reference, which you wouldn't believe the amazing amount of charity work, all of our NHL players.

And I want to suspension hearing comes up. They're constantly saving kittens and they're all in each other's weddings, which I wasn't expecting it. Every time there's a hearing, the guy was in the victim's wedding or they golf together all the time. Um, it's, it's very tight knit league when suspensions come up. And then the PA is there to make sure that we're following a due process. You know, they represent both players, the victim and the aggressor. So they try not to take sides,

but they are making sure we do things fairly. So we hear from the other side, George explains how he sees the play, and then we go back and deliberate as a staff. So, I mean, just so people understand this isn't i mean ultimately george peros has the final say but this isn't done in a vacuum here like there are a number of people that peros will consult with before coming up with the final verdict correct yeah so we have eight people who are just game watchers for us they sit in a room and log games all the time and they all give give their thoughts to George while he is first analyzing this play, in addition to the names I just mentioned. So Hugh, Ray Whitney, Ryan Getzlaff, myself, and Damian.

You've got something like 100 years of NHL experience in this group from all different perspectives. Damian was a video coach for the Rangers way back in the day. He worked for Colin Campbell. He built hockey ops and player safety from the ground up. You got three former players, four including George. But, you know, Ray Whitney, Stephon Quintel, Ryan Getzlaff all played kind of different styles of play. And then you have me as a lawyer who kind of grew up in the game and with my scouting background.

So you got guys coming from all different angles as we analyze these plays and try to give different perspectives on what the player was trying to do, what we like, what we don't like. We have some very healthy debates at times and make sure that we're, we're all getting on the same page, but you know, anyone in our group can bring up an example and say, Hey, this is a comparable play that I think exonerates this player. This is a comparable play that I think means we need to go harder,

but it's a robust group. George has final say, but he does listen to those of us on senior staff and come up with whenever he can a consensus. But ultimately, he's the one who has to stand in front of the GM's board of governors and explain what he did. You know, one of the things I want to get to some of your stories as well. But one final thing on DOPS. on DOPS. Last year with Morgan Riley, the one thing that I kept trying to direct people to, because I was looking for comparables and, well, this is like, oh, this Wayne Simmons situation, this, and I kept saying to everybody, no, no, the thing that makes this, that added a few games to it is this happens after the whistle. Like there is distance travel, but this is like after the whistle. Like whenever I talk about goal interference, I talk about liability.

Once you're in the crease, your liability goes sky high. And I say the same thing about after the whistle. Once the whistle is blown, your liability goes through the roof in the eyes of the DOPS. True or false? It's absolutely true. A player who is carrying a puck while the play is going on expects or should expect some level of contact. It's a physical sport and a contact sport. If you're carrying the puck up the ice, you should be braced in some way for contact unless you know no one's

around you. After the whistle or well after you've let the puck go, your guard is down. You're no longer prepared to engage most of the time. And so we take things like that quite seriously. Another example is plays from the bench. If you're on the bench or reaching out into play or engaging with players on the ice, a player mentally has a count, the elite players anyway, have a count of where all 12 guys on the ice are. If you start messing with guys from the bench, they're not expecting that. So they're a little less able to defend themselves. So we take things like that really seriously. There's hockey plays and non-hockey plays. There's trying to do something in order to actually make a play on the puck, to defend somebody, to score a goal, to throw a big game

changing hit. And then there's non-hockey plays to hurt someone for retribution, to send a message at the end of the game, that type of stuff. And there's a clear delineation in how we treat those. Let me ask you about your voice. Let's do a hard pivot here. I'm not even trying like a snappy TV transition here. Patrick, I want to ask you about your voice.

So anyone listening on the podcast right now will say, is this Patrick or Brian Burke? Because as you've been told before, you sound like your dad. And I, even though your dad and I have had differences at times and he wouldn't speak to me for a number of years, I've always liked them. And I always love his voice. Uh, how many times, uh, were you at home, someone from the NHL calls and confuses you for your dad. Has that ever happened? I'm pretty convinced I could have made some trades over the years. I think I could have gotten some done. One very memorable one.

I can't remember if Big Berkey was at the league or with a team, but he ran into Starbucks, left his phone, and said, if it rings, just pick it up. So I'm like 12 or 13, and the phone rings i say you know hello brian burke's phone berkey it's glenn sader you and he just starts lighting into me i don't know if i can swear and say all the things even if you have a loose swearing policy i might not be able to say all the things that he's sent you mfr you did this i don't know who you think you are and how you're going to get away with this type of crap anymore. And I'm going, Mr. Sather, Mr. Sather. And finally, after, I don't know, like 90 seconds

or two minutes of being berated, he finally stops. I go, Mr. Sather, it's Patrick. Hey, Patrick, how's it going, buddy? Oh, it's good. Oh, how's hockey playing this year? Yeah. And how's school? Oh, it's going good. Good. Hey, do you think you could tell your dad I called? I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure he's going to hear about this one. Slats. Like, I don't think I'm going to forget this particular call. So yeah, from a young age, I've sounded a lot like him and it's gotten, gotten into some funny stories because of it. You know, there's one, there's one, uh, I see, I love hearing conversations with, with, with older, older managers. Uh, they're so gruff. There's no, there's no filter. There's no sensor. They just like full barrel, let everyone think there's a, there's a, there's a story I heard a number of years ago, uh, about one manager,

um, who was on the phone and just like lighting someone up, like same type of language that you're talking about. And his wife said to him, like, you need to stop this. Like, you can't, you can't, like, you can't talk to people like this. Like who speaks to people like this? And his retort back was, F them all, but six to carry my coffin. If when I'm dead, I've got six, then I'm fine. That's all I need at the end. And I just think to myself, like, I know it's different now.

And it's a very much more corporate and polished and professional environment that everybody lives in and works in. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. I know sometimes you get it. Listen, in television, like, I'm sure you've heard the wars in the truck. But, you know, back then, like, that's just how everybody communicated. Um, but you know, back then, like, that's just how everybody communicated. Like I worked for years with, with Bill Waters and would hear him talk to other GMs and agents and all that.

And I mean, that was a, an eye opener to me, but you kind of just grew up in this Patrick. How are you so normal? Yeah. I'm not sure anyone would describe me as normal necessarily, but it is one of those, uh, when I first started dating my now wife and I was on a work call and was, you know, dropping F bombs or like, this is a effing disgrace or whatever. And I got off the call and he was like, wow, that was really heated. And I was like, no, no, it wasn't. We had a very nice conversation. We're good buddies. She's like, you sounded really mad at him. I'm like, no, we're excited. We've got great ideas here. Like

we're moving forward on some big things. It's going great. And she's like, your industry is weird. Really weird. No, we're actually best friends. Like we golf tournaments and weddings, like you were talking about in those DOPS hearings. Exactly. You mentioned Bobby Clark not too long ago. And I mentioned the Marty McSorley, Bobby Clark. I mean, he's obviously like a giant of the game, both on and off the ice. When you were scouting with the Philadelphia Flyers, there's a couple of things I want to

ask you about in your scouting past, because you have a really interesting bio. But when you're scouting for the Philadelphia Flyers, I know you've grown up in all this and your dad, etc. But what was it like being in the presence of Bobby Clark when you're young and working for the Flyers? It was intimidating because he's a legend and a great person, really treated everyone on the staff tremendously. Well, if you were scouting for Philly, you were lucky. They did everything first class. But I got hired right out of college. I was bird dogging, as they call it, for either Anaheim or Vancouver.

I got 50 bucks a weekend and I went around to all the old CCHA games to go watch hockey and build up a resume. So, you know, went around and saw Michigan state, Michigan, Bowling Green, obviously Notre Dame. And when I graduated, the Flyers hired me, but I had spent that year scouting for Anaheim. So Philly says, come out to the draft in Anaheim. This is, or Anaheim in Vancouver. This is 06. Come sit at the table, sit in the meetings, like see how we do things. And I'm 22 years old and everyone in the room is an old guy from Saskatchewan who's been in 300 fights. And I'm like, I'm just going to, I'm going to, the flyers had a type, let's put it that way. I'm like, I'm like, I'm

going to sit quietly and I'm going to learn, but I'm going to talk once. I'm going to make sure that I find one player. I know something about giving opinion that way. They know I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to sit quietly and I'm going to learn, but I'm going to talk once. I'm going to make sure that I find one player. I know something about giving opinion that way. They know I'm not, not shy. So I sit through all these meetings and I'm just listening and learning. And finally, the, and like, we're down to like fifth, sixth round, like end of the draft. And they throw out a name of a guy that,

that I had seen a bunch of center from Bowling Green named Jonathan Matsumoto. He'd been through the draft once already and wasn't particularly highly regarded. And I'm like, great, here's an under-the-radar guy I can talk about. So I say, hey, like I saw this guy a bunch. I kind of like him. He's got some offense. He's a little bit chippy.

He's a natural center. I think he can stay there and blah, blah, blah. Chris Pryor, who was running the draft, looks at me and goes, well, where would you take him? I said, I don't know, like third, fourth round. I think he should just be up a little higher. And they said, okay, great. And they moved them up the list a little bit. And I'm like, ooh, I'm very proud of myself for speaking up and that they listened. So we're at the table two days later. And I'm again, just sitting there trying not to embarrass myself or spill my drink or something.

And we get to the third round and we trade down. And then Paul Holmgren walks down to the end of the table. And Paul Holmgren is not exactly a shrinking violet himself. Yes. Puts his hand on my shoulder and goes, Patrick, you like that Matsumoto kid, eh? And I said, yeah, I like him a bit, Homer. I haven't seen everyone else on the board, but I like this kid. And he goes, okay. Walks back down to the end of the table next to Clark.

He leans in, sits down. And the next thing I know, they hit the button and they go with whatever it was,, 90th pick Philadelphia Flyers select from Bowling Green State, Jonathan Matsumoto. And when I tell you, I tried to make myself disappear. I tried to shrink and not be at the table anymore. And then Bobby Clark, hockey hall of famer, tough guy, brilliant, you know, everything that you want in hockey in hockey leans down looks at me and goes well your nuts are on the line now kid and i i don't know what kept me from just crawling under the table but then it's you know the draft board they didn't have a name plate for matzi because he had been through the draft and they didn't have them uh fully on central's list so for the next 10 picks in the third round there's just a gap in the board with all the players named them sitting there

going get his name up there put him up there like just absolutely terrified that I had completely screwed up but Jonathan ended up playing a couple games and the guy that we passed on didn't so technically I was right in the end but when Bobby Clark looks at you and tries to intimidate you it works yeah yeah it uh ask anyone who played against him in the end. But when Bobby Clark looks at you and tries to intimidate you, it works. Yeah. Yeah. Ask anyone who played against him in the 70s or ask, you know, anyone from the Red Army, for that matter. Who was then? Geez, we're running out of time with it. Who was then?

Do you recall? Like, I know initially you're going to be a little bit intimidated. Here comes Paul Holmgren, legendary tough guy from Minnesota. Here's Bobby Clark. We all remember him smashing Harlem off his ankle in the Broad Street Bullies in the two Stanley Cups. Who was the one guy that you really pounded the table for? Was there one player who you were like, you know, Matsumoto was one thing,

but this is like high stakes? I think the best example of a story like that would be Shane Goss Dispair. He was a freshman at Union, and I was doing a lot of college free agency. So I went up to, I saw him play at Merrimack as a freshman. He was outstanding. So I texted our regional area scout, who at the time was John Riley. He's now the head amateur guy for Tampa. He's a great guy and a

great hockey mind too. And I said, Riles, you know, this, this Goss despair kid. And I had to type it out on one of the old ABC phones and spelling Goss despair over and over was driving me insane for years. But, um, I said, he was, he was the best player on the ice tonight. And he goes, yeah, he's, he's a little small and he's a little slow, but he always had a great head for the game and a big shot and good puck skills. And I said, well, he's a little small and he's a little slow, but he always had a great head for the game and a big shot and good puck skills. And I said, well, he's showing out against college kids. I think we should go see him again. So he goes, all right, let's go see him again.

And we went in and saw him at Union together. And he looked at me, he goes, you know, you're right. There's something here. So to move a guy up your draft board, who's already been through the draft once and you already kind of had some knocks on them. And now you're getting them, you know, we're telling the other scouts, Hey,

like we think this guy should be a late round pick. And now we kept going back to see him. We had to lie about why we were there. We had to keep going. Oh, we really liked these college free agents. Like unions coach was like, you're here every weekend. I'm like, yeah, no, we really want to sign a, you know, so-and-so, um, trying to play dumb as best we can. And we just kept moving them up and up and Riles was pounding the table just, just as much, if not more than I was, cause he's the amateur guy and it's his area. And by the end of it,

we had kicked him up to the fourth round and we were like, okay, we're going to get them in the fourth round. It's going to be great. Draft was I think in Pittsburgh that year. And when we got to the, got to the city and we're having more meetings and finally Chris Pryor said, you know, you guys keep talking about this guy. Are you sure we'll get them in the fourth round? And we said, we don't know. I said, well, you take them the third round. And Ryle said, absolutely. No,

no hesitation. And I said the same thing. And so we took them in the third and within 30 seconds, both my and Ryle's phone started pinging from other teams going, you assholes. Like that's the guy we want. We were taking him late third. We were taking him in the fourth. He went to the USA camp that summer and was immediately one of the best defensemen there. So that was a fun story.

Riles gets all the credit and I know he's going to watch this and make sure that I say that. But it is a fun story to be able to go in and see somebody and have a feel for them. And it's the best part of scouting for sure. One thing before I let you go, I do want to ask you about,

and I got one question from the chat as well that I want to get to from Jessica, which is really interesting. All-star skills. We know you are part of the brain trust involved in it. How much did Connor McDavid design last year's skills competition, Patrick Burke? I felt bad for Connor because when he won everyone kept saying well of course he won he designed all the events of course he knew it was coming Connor and Steve Mayer who Mayer is the the genius behind all our events um uh met and worked on the

reformatted setup not all of it but it was Connor and Steve saying what if we just had you know eight ten twelve players and they did a bunch of different skills and we crowned the best one overall. And it was a good push from Connor. And Connor said, look, I'll help make sure the players are excited about it. We'll bring some energy back to skills. It'll be great. And Steve said, great, I'll bring it to my hockey guys and we'll figure it out. So Connor did not know any of the events in advance. Connor found out, got his briefing about what everything looked like the same time everyone else did. He dominated without having any advanced knowledge of anything. It was his and Steve Mayer's initiative to change skills into the new format, which we love. And

then we'll continue when skills picks back up. But I did... Connor was going... People kept saying, well, he designed this. And I'm like, he didn't design anything. We had a team that worked for months coming up with all of these and he didn't see a goddamn thing until we showed it to him. So he just, he beat everybody without any advanced knowledge and deserves a little more credit for it. He won because he's the best player in the NHL, best player in the world. Okay. Let me, let me finish with this one.

So this comes from the chat. This is interesting. I never thought about this, but you know, small brain here. me finish with this one. So this comes from the chat. This is interesting. I never thought about this, but you know, small brain here. Jessica L. submits this one. Not saying it should be, but curious about the role of AI, curious the role that it could play in the future with the DOPS, finding comparable plays, analyzing past rulings, etc. There have been any AI discussions? analyzing past rulings, et cetera. There've been any AI discussions?

There have been a lot of high level AI discussions at the NHL. I won't speak to AI cause that's not my wheelhouse. I do know that we're constantly using our player and puck tracking to kind of start informing the decisions that we're making. Not yet. We are using them retrospectively so when we talk about how you know a big hit um what what we're trying to do in a control setting is like can we when we look at the speeds of the players um on their their chip tracker what does that tell us about force is that an accurate predictor of force um you know because a player can be traveling a certain speed but really load up and and throw his weight into a hit, because a player can be traveling a certain speed, but really load up

and throw his weight into a hit. Or a player can be, you know, flat footed, but big and strong and really still crack a guy. There's not much to it yet. But with the work that our really amazing player and puck tracking groups do, our department and hockey ops are kind of behind the scenes, always keeping an eye on what's new, what's next, and what information might be helpful in the future. At this point, there really hasn't been anything that we find to be particularly usable or relevant now, but we're certainly not going to close our eyes to it just in case there is something helpful there. So to, I think it was Jessica's question, like if we were looking for comparable plays, rather than us trying to think, okay, Patrick remembers this play from 10 years ago, let's go find it. If we plugged in the location on the ice and the direction the two players were moving, can AI or computer learning or whatever go through all of our video database for us

and find a comparable play for us? One day, that might be the case. We're nowhere close to that yet, but it's certainly something that we're keeping a close eye on just in case. And I, that might be the case. We're nowhere close to that yet. But it's certainly something that we're keeping a close eye on just in case. And I think that's a great question. Great answer. Listen, been a delight catching up again. Continued success. When the skills get going again this year, of course, Four Nations, very much look forward to that. And hopefully you have it. I know I'm jinxing you by saying this, but this was kind of true. Not too long.

So hopefully you have a, I know I'm jinxing you by saying this, but this was kind of true, not too long. Hopefully it is a quiet time around the office. I hope there's a sort of Maytag repairman aspect to the DOPS. I know anytime I mentioned that anyway, everyone there screams at me, but I hope you guys have a pretty easy time this season. I am not going to say anything to it other than thank you. And it was great chatting and catching up. Thanks, Patrick. But you be well. it other than thank you. And it was great chatting and catching up. Thanks, Patrick.

But you, you'd be well, we'll talk to you. Patrick Burke, the VP of the NHL player, department of NHL player safety, always good catching up with Patrick has a really impressive background as well. As you just heard, whether it's with the all-star skills or scouting, a smart dude and a, a very valuable member of the Department of Player Safety, who, as he mentioned, we didn't even get to the Ryan Getzlaff stuff.

Now, Ryan Getzlaff is involved, and, you know, Ray Whitney is involved as well. Like, this is, that position, and, you know, Brendan Shanahan really helped him, before him, Brian Burke, you know, use that to catapult to different positions around the NHL. We'll see what this means for Whitney, what this means for Getzlaff, what this means for Quintel, et cetera, et cetera. And Peros himself too, what that all means for them all the way down the road. Okay. Spent a lot of time with Patrick there, Zach. The entire trade is now done between Colorado and San Jose. So as you mentioned off the top,

Mackenzie Blackwood and Giovanni Smith and a fifth. This comes from Frank Cervalli going to the Sharks, Alexander Georgiev, Nikolai Kovalenko, a second and a fifth is the entire deal. So late on it here on the show, we're talking to Patrick, et cetera, et cetera, but that is it. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered.

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Peloton at onepeloton.ca. What else is up for grabs before we go off the air here today, Zach? Well, first of all, I do want to say one thing. The Morgan Riley, did you account for the fact that maybe he just didn't hear the whistle? Like, yeah, like Dale Hunter. It'd be in a discussion. Yeah. Like Dale Hunter. I didn't hear the 20 games later.

Dale still said, I didn't, I didn't hear the whistle. It's coaching London Knights down the street. I just still maintain. I didn't hear the whistle. I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, I mean, I thought that that was an important piece there. Clearly. In all seriousness, Jacob

Truba, debut here tonight with the Anaheim Ducks. I'm just kind of curious the mindset and the energy that he's going to bring in here. Get a fresh start. But it is different because one thing I think a lot of curious the mindset and the energy that he's going to bring in here. I get a fresh start, you know, it, but it is different because of one thing I think a lot of people don't realize with these players and professional sports is, which was a big piece of him and the trade stuff.

The family stays behind his wife, his kid, they stay behind. So it's like, yeah, you're, you're playing pro hockey, make a lot of money. That's great. There is an emotional aspect that this is still a person. How are you prepared for his debut with the ducks tonight like you think there's going to be any difference in this well it wasn't too long it wasn't too long ago he's with the rangers playing the montreal canadians and him and josh and had that beauty at center ice to respond to the uh to the uh to the to the baron hit from not too long ago which we kind of asked berkey about but kind of ran out of

time um you know it's interesting. One of the things that I think we're all wondering about with Jacob Truba on the blue line now with the Anaheim Ducks is, does he last past trade deadline? Yeah. Or was that someone that was acquired to be moved at trade deadline time by the Anaheim Ducks? Not sure. Look, when you're with a new team, as we all know, you want to do something to make an

impression. The thing is, Jacob Truba has kind of already made an impression on the Montreal Canadiens this season with Baron and then the fight with Anderson. Um, so we'll see about this one. I mean, I'll be watching, you'll be watching. I know it'll be a, it'll be a really interesting game for the sidebar, which is Jacob Trouba's, you know, first game as a, as an Anaheim duck. Uh, it's, it's gonna look, even though this isn't Jacob Truba's first team,

it's still going to look weird seeing him in the uniform. It always is. It's that, wow, that sort of jarring, like you see Mike Medano as a Red Wing. You're like, oh, okay, wow. Like that's one you never expected to see. But there's a couple of interesting games on the board tonight. Maybe I'll be watching for all the wrong reasons.

Detroit and Buffalo. Yeah. I'm waiting for... I think we're all going to do this. Watching for one reason and one reason only. To see how the fan base of the losing team reacts. Both fan

bases are on fire right now. And there's torches at the castle gate. Both teams, right? This is one of those, the way you bill it is, there has to be a winner. Or in this case, what might be more interesting is, there has to be a loser in this one. Because the reaction to it is going to be special online. I know Red Wings

fans are howling for the coach. Now Buffalo Sabres fans are howling for the general manager. There are where is Terry chants. There are the fire Kevin chants. It is ungood all around in both markets. But one of these teams has to win this game. One of these teams is going to lose this game tonight. And then as well, we get the Chicago Blackhawks facing off against the New York Rangers. And we all saw what happened. The New York Rangers yesterday against the Seattle Kraken.

Oh, we're tucked away. It's comfortable. Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah, bah. Next thing you know, Seattle Kraken, you know, just kicked sand in their face, took their per diem and left MSG. So three intriguing games, a couple of maybe for all the all the wrong reasons. I have some interesting junior hockey here tonight, Jeff.

A couple of things I want to get to quickly. First, we saw it was announced that Bennett Seneke, I think that's that's the. Yeah, he got invited. We've heard both right. Seneke, Seneca, take your that's, that's the, yeah, he got invited to hockey Canada. We've heard both, right? Seneca, Seneca, take your pick, take your pick at all. Yeah. I just want to make sure I'm doing it, saying it right for his sake. I don't think it's fair for the player to not say them right. But he got invited to hockey Canada here, their camp, a late invite, obviously. He was one of the guys who immediately was kind of pointed out as, whoa, that guy's not on this list.

You think this has anything to do with the goal he scored the other night against the London Knights? Okay, by the way, I watched that game on Friday night. That was, first of all, that goal was the highlight coming off of that game, but that was an incredibly, incredibly rough game. There were massive hits. So Zach Sandu caught, who did he catch? Oh, Easton Cowan.

Caught Cowan. Ben Danford caught Blake Montgomery, the kid that came up from the USHL. Like massive, massive hits. Big game for the Oshawa Generals. The thing that's impressive about the Beckett Seneca hit, or the Beckett Seneca goal, did you see who the defenseman was? Yeah, it was Dickinson, wasn't it? Sam Dickinson, first round draft pick.

One of the best defensemen in the draft. Like the best defenseman in the OHL. Best defenseman in the, with all due respect, Zane Parag, like one of the best, maybe the best defenseman in the OHL. Like that's Sam Dickinson. Now, I don't know about you. First of all, I looked at it and I said, awesome move. Great play.

Love it. Highlights everywhere. The CHL did a great job getting that video everywhere. I don't know about you, but the first thing I thought of, enjoy doing that in the OHL. Because when you try that in the NHL, maybe. Try that on Jacob Truba. Maybe. Maybe.

Why? I'm just lying here counting the lights. One, two, three, four. Five. Oh, I didn't notice that light over there. That'd be a tough one. Anything else? Yes.

A couple more things junior hockey related. And guess who broke the news or was the one to tweet it out? It was one Jeff Merrick. So let's start with that. You tweeted it out and then you put it in your article the other day at the QMJHL Board of Governors meeting this week. Expect a vote to pass on the sale and relocation of the Acadie-Bathers Titan 2 group in St. John's, Newfoundland. Just wondering if you had more comments on that. Okay, so I mean, this one's been out there for a while.

So the BOG meet this week. This one is going to get Royal Ascent. Like the way it was described to me on the weekend is they were at the point of the discussion where what do we do if a team gets snowed in? Okay, like that's where they're at on the, over the weekend. Like they're already like in, in such advanced stages of, okay, we know we want to do this.

We know the sales is going to go through like, well, how, what are the logistics of if a team gets snowed in? So like snow is an issue, you know, teams getting snowed in travel is an issue. I don't know how they're going to work it out this time. I do know when the Newfoundland Growlers of the ECHL were playing in St. John's, the way that they did it was the Growlers' ownership paid for the flight in and any extra days the team had to stay in St. John's. Like there will be, there will be some subsidy involved here. I don't know at what level the subsidy's going to be at,

but there will be some, there will be some subsidy to be able to get teams there. Like I really do believe, there was a lot of cynical people online, obviously. I get it. It's like a default setting.

Okay, this is the millionth time we've tried Newfoundland, it's never worked. I think that there really is a sense that this is, you know, considering the AHL is not going back, considering the ECHL is not going back. And I know how big senior hockey is in Newfoundland.

I think we all know that. But at the elite level of junior hockey, I think that they understand that this is their last shot at a, at a, at a big team in a big league. And we all know that Newfoundlanders are proud. Newfoundlanders love their hockey. You know, David Salter, who was communications director for the ice caps for a number of years,

you know, tweeted out over the weekend and Dave's like really plugged in on this one tweeted out that it'll take 4,000 a night to make this work for St. John's. Um, I don't think that that, I honestly, I don't think that that's going to be a problem. I think these games are going to be well attended. Um, and, uh, I think that we'll get, we won't get an official announcement until somewhere down the road. I don't know exactly when, but as far as the next domino to fall, which is the BOG giving it the thumbs up and we're good with the sale, I think that happens later on this week. But as far as official announcement, I have no clarity on that. I feel bad, by the way, for Acadie Bathurst

as well. I understand small market and attendance. I get all that. I got to spend some time around that organization at the 100-year anniversary of the Memorial Cup. That team had Noah Dobson on it and Jeffrey Truchon-Vielle and really wonderful people and great team and great town. You feel terrible about it. That on the one hand and on the other hand you're happy that newfoundland's getting some big name hockey back the other one that uh you talked about here in the article and tweeted out the other day ohl yeah sources confirming representatives from the ontario hockey league visited both muskegon and youngstown in the last few days as the league explores expansion i thought this one was really interesting because this is not just expanding the league, but this is actually going out into USHL territory. Yes. So a couple of things. As one person mentioned to me, from Youngstown's point of view, you have 15 teams within five hours. teams within five hours. And that's certainly attractive for Youngstown. What I was told subsequent to putting that out is this one needs to be done quick. Like a decision needs to be

made quickly. Like the OHL groups did, you know, analysis on the towns, on the rinks as well. So if there's any sort of, you know, spiffing of the arenas or any sort of pledges of however many millions of dollars to get the arenas up to OHL standard, I wonder if those have been discussed. I would suspect yes. But this needs to happen quickly because the USHL needs to know by end of December

which teams are coming back and which teams aren't. So as much as the OHL might want to take their time with this one, think about it, different groups, it seems as if they're going to need to hurry this one up. And we should know at some time by late December whether Youngstown and Miss Hegan are going to be in the OHL next season or returning to the USHL. And I think we're sort of all of the mind that they're going and they're going to the OHL. I think that the OHL is interested in expansion, not just by two teams, but probably more.

But that will have to be staggered. I think we're most likely looking at two teams next season and then a couple of teams the following season. So maybe a four team or a five team expansion inside of two years. You know, Elliot on Hockey Night a couple of weeks ago talked about, I believe he referred to it, Zach, as aggressive expansion.

And I think that's what we're looking at. Not aggressive, like next year, there's going to be eight new teams, but two teams next year, and then maybe three or four the following year. I think that's what the OHL is looking at here. And one of the sidebars to all of this too, like let's say Youngstown and Muskegon get in. Who owns the players? Those teams? Because a lot of players on those teams are the property of various teams, not just in the OHL, but also in the Q. Like Shikudomi owns the Lawrence kid. And I cannot imagine for one second

that Shikudomi is gonna be cool just letting that kid stay and play in the Ontario League when they have his rights in the CHL. So that's where this decision for the Ontario league could impact the queue. There will be a fight there, Zach, I assure you there will be a fight there. You burst my bubble on something.

I was like, Oh, I'm going to have a disagreement with you. And then you clarified it. I read your article that you put out about truba and the uh asking players to wave and i was pumped i was like i'm gonna come on the show okay i'm gonna say jeff i disagree with you on this you should be able to ask players to wave yeah but then you basically fixed it for me and when you were like yeah you offer compensation i was like okay never mind like we're good

because i was gonna i i do disagree with that but does that not seem like a sane compromise to all of us we understand why jacob truba was miffed about the way that it was handled but like look the the rangers are just trying to do business and like no one's all gonna be buddies here like it's it's gonna be a nasty you know i there are people there are people in vegas by the way who always hate when i say that what vegas does is the ruthless pursuit of the stanley cup i mean that as a uh compliment like i use ruthless as a compliment when it comes to business when it comes to things like winning the stanley cup it's funny too because when the rangers drama was going on i got a note from someone uh in vegas saying oh look this rangers move is ruthless like okay ha ha ha

yeah point point well made um but like i look at it as a compliment, but what would have solved all of this or what could have solved all of this is like, because right now the transaction is, can you do us a favor and wave so we could do business? And the player will be like, well, hang on a second here. Like this does nothing for me. I've negotiated this in good faith. I'm not getting compensated for this whatsoever. Why should I do this for one second? Why should you even entertain this idea? And I know the NHL really doesn't like the idea of money outside the system. And I get that. But as far as a way to massage this situation where a player can be compensated for agreeing to waive their no trade, I really think that this is something that should

be a CBA issue next time around. So you don't get in situations like this. Like, I don't necessarily look at it as like, there was the Rangers threatening Jacob Truba to put him on waivers. It was more like, Jacob, you don't have waiver protection. Like we can do it this way. Like we're going to get business done. Like you had the no move and we couldn't do anything. Like I mentioned the piece, like Yarmulke Kalina would always say, sometimes the team has the hammer. Sometimes the player has the hammer.

And that's why I never, I never judge players negatively for choosing to use the hammer when they have it. Cause you know, teams will. So whenever a player uses, I know people grumble about it and team and cup and all teams will use the hammer when they have it. Players have the right to use it too. Let's create a system where you can compensate players if you ask them to wave how about that can we all agree no i agree give everyone a soft players a little bit of a soft landing here i don't know yeah no i read it and i was like oh great i made them like i told you i

was making some notes on what you wrote and i'm like perfect which everyone should go read it by the way on the daily face off, make sure to check out Jeff's article that came out today. But I was like, okay, perfect. Like I disagree with your opinion here. And then you came on the show and led off with it. And I was like, are you kidding me? Come on.

There, there it goes. Find other things to read me about. But yeah, there's plenty of them. Trust me. I wasn't going to rip. I just disagreed. Last thing I will do here and we'll let, we'll let you wrap up the show after this, but,

you touched on the, off the top. Yep. I had no idea who John Cordick was, but something that will happen many times throughout the show, as everyone will realize, I do it on the least nation show. My dad,

whenever I don't know, Oh yeah. Fill me in on what has happened. Texted me right away. Yeah. We'll put this picture up. I want people to see this as well. Tom Wilson said Tom Wilson. Sorry. Yes. Uh, he he goes john cordick with the velcro sleeves that opened up when

an opponent grabbed him in yes your dad knows your dad knows what's up if your dad knows you can do a google image search on john cordick the the late john cordick one of one of the toughest to ever do it 31 john cordick yeah montak. He was, yeah, Montreal and Toronto and Quebec and Washington. Yeah, he was in Southpaw, by the way, too. Heads up, everybody. Actually, John threw it both. But yeah, he, with those big, like, chipmunk cheeks that you see with Tom Wells, and he goes and finishes the game.

How many guys would have just said, like, yeah, like, how many guys would have just said like what yeah like how many guys would just say like my night is over like okay it's been a long day at the office and i think it's time to wrap it up good on tom wilson i know his face is this big the pictures of like in his helmet the strap where like the chin the the earpiece comes down It's like pushing out to the side of his head. It's wild. Because it's so big. Well, Ron McClain was saying on Hockey Night Saturday, like I don't even think it would have like fit into a bubble or a cage.

Like even if they wanted to put it on, I'm like, how's that going to fit? Put on a football helmet, maybe, maybe. Okay, so a couple of things. Three games on the go, as we mentioned, around the NHL this evening. Enjoy them. Maybe some you're enjoying for perverse reasons, watching Detroit and Buffalo. Um, you want to see what happens with the Rangers tonight against the, uh, the Buffalo Sabres and, or the, uh, Rangers, uh, facing off against the Chicago Blackhawks rather. And the, uh, Anaheim Ducks with Jacob Truba facing off against the Montreal Canadians. about facing off against the Montreal Canadiens.

Also, Morning Cup of Hockey. It is the best show going, period. I encourage all of you at 9 a.m. Eastern on our daily Faceoff YouTube channel. Do yourself the favor and check out that show. It's amazing. My favorite. Pat Maroon makes his weekly stop on the program. So always look forward to hearing from Pat Maroon,

one of the best guests in hockey media. By the way, speaking of best guests, man, Patrick Burke was awesome. Thanks to Patrick from the DOPS for stopping by today. And on Flames Nation, Jamie Noodles McClellan on Wednesday. So Noodles is going to be aboard. Of course, from TSN, famous NHL netminder. Noodles is just one of the best hockey commentators going.

So make sure to check that out. Okay, that's it for us. Went a little bit long. Apologies for taking up your time too much today. Thanks for joining me on the sheet. On behalf of Zach Phillips and everybody here on this program, thanks for watching live on our YouTube channel. Thanks for listening on podcasts, for downloading.

Feel free to leave a like. Feel free to leave a review if you so choose. Check out my piece, as Zach said, at dailyfaceoff.com. A lot of stuff on the Dallas Stars and going big game hunting, etc. Some junior hockey notes, a PWHL note, and a couple of other things. Not a whack at the pinata, the Buffalo Sabres, but more like this is the issue here or one of the issues here. Anyhow, thanks for joining, either watching or listening or perhaps both.

We are back tomorrow, three o'clock Eastern for The Sheet right here on our daily face off YouTube channel. This month, I can't get out my head. Lost all ambitions day to day. Cause you can call it a rut. I went to the doc, man. He tried to give me a little medicine. I'm like, nah, man, that's fine. I'm not against those methods, but I knew. It's me, myself, and how this gonna be fixed in my mind. I'm losing. I've been on the dance the way I roll.

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