The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Trade Freeze ft. Brian Burke

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

Jeff Marek is joined by Brian Burke for Burkie Friday's to discuss the NHL Trade Freeze, Jack Hughes 13 shot performance, drama in Vancouver, Sergei Fedorov's jersey, trades that never happened, and answer your questions!SHOW INDEX(00:00) Intro(06:08) Christmas Eve Show(07:15) Leafs Connections(11:43) Brian Burke(15:31) Rushing Players into the NHL(18:57) Keith Tkachuk and Joe Thornton(21:31) Christmas Trade Freeze(25:09) GM Relationships(30:11) Q&A(38:59) SOME CIVILIAN(41:25) Bobby Clarke(47:14) Q&A(51:36) Kaapo Kakko Trade(53:27) Luke Schenn(56:03) Closing Thoughts____________________________________________________________________________________________Up Close with Stephen BruntApple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/trailer/id1784718713?i=1000680017895Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0qQNAp0eleA4H3vuuWOZWp?si=196f81830f374255Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.ca/podcasts/1285b1e8-82fd-4d00-ae34-f48d596dd1ce/up-close-with-stephen-brunt____________________________________________________________________________________________Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest. And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it.

Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. All right, just caught me in the chat, but I'm back now. You know what the hardest thing to do? You know what the hardest thing to do is? Make someone laugh.

You know, I've always had a hard time watching and I'm not a huge sort of current movie guy. I tend to not watch current movies till about five or 10 years later, but I'm always stunned at how comedies never win picture of the year. The hardest thing to do is make people laugh, make people giggle. Maybe the easiest things to do is make people emotional or make them cry. Like there are techniques you can use to do that, which is why I maintain, and I know Banks is in the chat and she'll love this one. I still think this is the best book of fiction I've ever read. It's called A Confederacy of Dunces by John Kennedy Toole. The story behind it is tragic, but the writing of the book and the writing in the

book to me is hilarious. It's very rare that I will read something and it'll make me laugh out loud, but this is a every single page, put the book down and start laughing. Now, when it comes to sports, specifically hockey, and I know we started yesterday's program with a couple of dad jokes. I know Zach grudgingly enjoyed it. One of the hardest things to do is make people laugh because hockey seems to be the world that comedy forgot. Seems to be the world that, you know, you're almost embarrassed to laugh. I think this is part of the reason why a podcast like Spittin' Chicklets is so successful. It makes people laugh.

And if you meet anybody in hockey, either a coach, a general manager, a player, they are some of the funniest people you will ever meet and they will crack you up just hanging out with them watch a game with them and you will laugh non-stop but get them on camera dog face and your book answers right we've all seen this before but there's some of the funniest people but also in sports, there are very funny situations. Now, let me give a little bit of my background. So as a kid, I grew up in southwestern Ontario. And as such, I had two teams that I watched religiously.

One were the Toronto Maple Leafs and the other were the Buffalo Sabres. Yes, I think you know where I'm going with this one. And the thing about this matchup, and this would have been like late 70s, early 80s, when the Toronto Maple Leafs were probably about two players away from being a contending team, like in the conversation with the Habs and the Islanders. They never got there and Punchy Mluck ended up blowing up the entire thing. But nonetheless, they're about two players away from being a contender. And they're a really good team, except when they played the Buffalo Sabres.

And this is in the era where it was Don Edwards and Bob Sauve and it didn't matter which one was starting they were going to blank the Maple Leafs you could take that to the bank stick it in a long-term deposit because the result was guaranteed the Maple Leafs were going to lose to the Buffalo Sabres it didn't matter when didn't matter how on fire the Toronto Maple Leafs were going to lose to the Buffalo Sabres. It didn't matter when. It didn't matter how on fire the Toronto Maple Leafs were. It didn't matter how Lanny was doing and Daryl was doing and Salman. It didn't matter. The Buffalo Sabres were going to beat them.

This is when the French Connection all were in their late 20s and Danny Gere was getting going. And I'm thinking about the blue line. I'm thinking of King Kong Korab and Larry Playfair and Jim Schoenfeld and John Van Boxmere. And a very young 19-year-old Lindy Ruff. Oh, Zach Phillips, if you're with me, do you see where I'm going with this one? You see this lining up tonight, right? You see where this is heading.

The Buffalo Sabres are on an 11-game losing streak. People are bringing palm trees, and there's all the tax jokes and all of it. And I'm wondering, Leafs Nation After Dark, dark our post game show for the tronomy have you already written the script for tonight because you know what's going to happen don't you zach phillips if that is indeed your real name it is first uh and second um yeah uh pretty much was like you told me before the show hey i, I got something here. I'm bringing you on. I'm like, oh, where's this going to go?

And then you started. You know where it's going to go. I was like, don't bring me on. Don't bring me on. Don't bring me on. And you brought me on. People thought, you know what? The game to lose would have been last weekend against Buffalo. No, no, no, no.

The game to lose, Jeff, would be tonight. Because tonight's going to kind of feel like a home game for the Toronto Maple Leafs because the key bag is going to be full of Toronto Maple Leafs players, to which Lindy Ruff talking about today, taking the crowd out of it. When's the last time you heard a coach at home say, we need to take the crowd out of it. But Lindy Ruff, former Buffalo Sabre on that team that I just referenced a couple of moments ago, who used to stick it to the Toronto Maple Leafs

in the late 70s and early 80s. Lindy Ruff, that defender, 19 years old, still sticking to the Maple Leafs. Do we have the clip of Lindy saying this one from today? Here's Lindy Ruff, head coach of the Buffalo Sabres earlier today. You've got to embrace the challenge. It's not what you want to see in your building, obviously. But we've got a challenge ahead of us. We know it's all about the two points, not about the fans.

We play well. We can take the fans ahead of us. We know it's all about the two points, not about the fans. We play well. We can take the fans out of the game. Playing at home, talking about taking the fans out of the game. That right there is pure hockey comedy, and I love it. But then again, I don't host a Toronto Maple Leafs postgame show. What do you got going on this one, Zach? Yeah. Let's, Zach. Yeah, let's get rolling.

Okay. It's Friday. That means Berkey day. All your questions, a bunch of stories, a bunch of laughs, right? What do we always say?

Brian Brooks aboard. Let's get ready to grumble. Welcome to the sheet for Friday, December 20th. Here we go. I can drink water. Alright, welcome to the program today. Thanks so much for being aboard all week long. It's been a lot of fun. And the holidays are on the horizon.

By the way, we're doing a show on Christmas Eve. Me, Zach, Greg Wyshynski, everybody else licking the envelope and mailing it in. Nah, too close to Christmas. Nah, I'm not going to be there. We're here for you. I don't know if we're going to be the only show. Laz and Colby don't show on the 24th, are they? Do we know?

We might be the only ones on the network. Is that true? Anyway, we'll be't a show on the 24th, are they? Do we know? We might be the only ones on the network. Is that true? Anyway, we'll be here for you on the 24th. 25th, all bets are off. Back on the 26th, but we'll be in Ottawa for the World Juniors. We're doing a show on the... Did you know this, by the way, Zach? Have I sprung this one on you yet? That we're actually doing a show on the 24th? Hope you didn't have plans. We're doing a show

on the 24th. No, we're good to go. We work hard we work harder than anyone else in the industry jeff i think that's what uh that's what they were saying yes this is this is hard work referencing tool books and saying hey lindy ruff was 19 when he used to scotch the maple leaves back when it was called the odd and the stands would go straight up like a sumo palace and you were looking right down on the action and we all loved going to the odd um oh by the way i had a really interesting conversation with someone today uh as a as a O'Pallis and you were looking right down on the action and we all loved going to the odd. Oh, by the way, I had a really interesting conversation with

someone today. As a Leafs fan, you'll enjoy this. And someone that we work with slash work for has a tie to Maple Leafs history and a significant one at that. This morning I had a conversation with J.D.

McNamara. Have you met J you met JD he's our VP of operations at Better Collective slash TNN great guy had a conversation we started we started talking about um hockey and started telling me about his dad um who's now an agent was a scout his uncle who's a longtime scout he scouted for a number of different teams like like five or six. His uncle Bob McNamara. But his grandfather was Jerry McNamara, who was a longtime general manager of your Toronto Maple Leafs. And when he was a scout, like whenever I think Jerry McNamara, I think about, you know, GM in the 80s. And I also think about the guy that encouraged the Toronto Maple Leafs

to bring in Borya Salming and Inga Hammerstrom and start to usher in a sort of mini European wave, certainly from Sweden, in Boreas Salming and Inga Hammerström and start to usher in a sort of mini European wave, certainly from Sweden, with Boreas Salming, who's one of the greatest defensemen of all time, maybe the best defenseman ever to play for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And I got to talk to Jerry once when I did the All Leafs Lunch Show with Bill Waters. Like, great stories, great guy, charming dude. But if it wasn't for Jerry McNamara, I don't know that Boreas Homming ever would have played in the NHL. So we have an attachment to hockey history here at the Nation Network, Zach,

and we didn't even know it. So how about that? That's my story for you today. My story for you. What do you got for me? Thank you. I have a story, actually. All right. I don't know if you want to hear it if

today's the day to hear it but uh i think uh this one it's told to me of me so it's not like my story but it's a story of me involved in it i used to have the privilege of being able to go to a lot of leaps games when i was younger my grandpa through his company would be able to take me in he was very fortunate for that but uh we get to sit in some of the boxes the suites at the air canada center back in the day and one day bob yore was kind of around there i guess he was making the rounds through the boxes and i was a really little kid and um my my grandpa tells a story that bob yore comes through the box and he's talking everybody's saying hi shaking, and he goes to talk to me. I am so involved in watching this game,

I have no interest in talking to Bobby Orr, listening to him, having anything to say, no matter what. Did you even look at him? Did you even look at him? No, I'm not looking at him, not acknowledging him. He's trying to talk to me i'm not interested my grandpa kind of he's like hey it's like you give him something here so bobby or asked me uh who's your favorite player and i turn and look at him with disgust on my face and this sass in my

voice and i said matt sundin like you idiot and I look back at the game and wanted nothing else and my grandpa says Bob you're just smiled laughed got up and walked away you know he probably liked it right because he probably gets like adoration and fawning all the time he probably liked that some smart ass kids like a4 beat it

trying to watch the game over here and it's only a couple years later you realize like I just completely ignored the second best defenseman of all time. Okay, third best defenseman of all time. Well, we'll have to dig into that more and who is on your list at some point. Number one's name rhymes with Nick Lidstrom. I'm not going to say who, but his name rhymes with Nick Lidstrom. Fair enough.

Get into that another program as to as to why it is Brian Burke Day. So a lot of questions we have queued up about Berkey, but we got a couple of other things we want to get to before we get Berkey aboard. Before we onboard Berkey here on the program on the sheet and good to see that the chat is lively today. If you are in the chat, if you are watching live, if you could hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, there'll be a little, some extra for you in your envelope and maybe Santa will leave something a little extra special under the tree for you. Uh,

I want to talk about Jack Hughes and the 13 shots. What's that? Yeah. Yeah. I was just going to say, it's the same thing as the, the, the trophies you give out on the award show.

Yeah. Two thirds to again, say with a two thirds of the square root, the game show. Two thirds. Again, say it with me. Two thirds of the square root of sweet F-ball. Yeah. Let's bring Brian Burke aboard. I got a couple of things I want to get to

with Berkey and a clip to play from him as we're going to try to get a little bit historical with Brian. Brian Burke joins me on the sheet. Now, Berkey, how are you today in advance of Christmas, my friend? All good, Jeff. Thanks for having me on. The pleasure is all mine. Last week was a home run.

It just sort of turned into ask Berkey questions. And because it worked out so well, we're going to do it again, Brian. And I want to start out with, well, first of all, before we get to the questions from the audience, one of the things that I'm curious, and we did have a question about this, as we're all watching the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Buffalo Sabres tonight, we have some Sabres questions. I'm curious, when you ran the Maple Leafs, and the Maple Leafs were playing at home against the Buffalo Sabres, it was essentially another home game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. This morning, Lindy

Ruff talked about taking the crowd out of it. It's a home game for the Toronto Maple Leafs. This morning, Lindy Ruff talked about taking the crowd out of it. It's a home game for the Buffalo Sabres, and Lindy Ruff is talking about taking the crowd out of the game, which is one of the more unique things you're going to hear from a coach. But any memories, stories, recollections of running the Maple Leafs and seeing all of your fans at the Key Bank? Yeah, I know what Lindy meant, because I almost said that once, too. And it's really, I almost said that once, because we couldn't win in Buffalo. We could not. I don't

think we ever did. All the games I played there when I was GM of the Leafs, I think we beat them once, maybe. We tried everything. Went down the night before, tried a new hotel. Went down the night before, tried a different hotel. Went down the day of the game and didn't do a game day skate, just went to the hotel and got a meal. Tried to beat them that way. Promised the guys a day off. If they beat them, we couldn't beat them. Yeah.

You know, it's funny because I started the show by talking about, you know, I was a kid from southwestern Ontario, and so I watched a lot of Sabres games. The late Ted Darling was the voice that I still always associate with the Buffalo Sabres and I watched a lot of Toronto Maple Leafs, certainly on Hockey Night in Canada, but it was even true back then and that's in the era of French Connection and Van Boxmere

and a young Lindy Ruff and Playfair and King Kong Korab and even back then, and I don't know what it was, Don Edwards always turned into Terry Sawchuck and Bob Sauve always turned into Glenn Hall, it was and I don't know what it was, Don Edwards always turned into Terry Sawchuck and Bob Sovey always turned into Glenn Hall. It was, and I don't know what it is. It's always been that way, Berkey. Yeah, it's a great part of the rivalry that Buffalo has struggled,

but they managed to beat Toronto when they have to or when they should. That's kind of a cool story if you're a Buffalo fan. Yeah, it sure is. One of the other things I was mentioning earlier today before you came on is one of, well, the VP of operations here for the shop here at the Nation Network, guy by the name of J.D. McNamara, his grandfather was Jerry McNamara, longtime general manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs. When he was a scout, he was responsible for bringing over Boreas Salming

and bringing over Inge Hammerstrom. Did you ever have any conversations or meetings with Jerry McNamara at all? Well, like you mentioned, Jeff, Jerry McNamara is a charming guy. Very bright. He is. Great conversationalist,

can tell a story better than anybody. Classic Irishman. And after he got fired, I remember Pat Quinn called me and said, get Jerry McNamara on the phone. And I said, what for? He said, I want to hire him. I said, well, Pat, we already have a GM. He said, you don't understand.

The value of having a former GM on the staff changes everything. Let's get him on staff. Call him right now. So I called Jerry. And Jerry was worried about getting out of his contract with the Leafs not getting paid any problems that might cause him so he said well let's wait and see but thank you so grateful he said thanks for calling Brian and tell Pat thank you what a guy yeah what wonderful guy when I used to do the show with Bill Waters he would come on we had Monica a couple of different times and

always great stories. And, you know, one of the stories we think about that, that Maple Leafs team and he drafted really well, like Nyland, Cortnell, Luke Richardson,

um, Gary Lehman, Vincent Dampoose, like really good players. But the story was all those players got rushed in and Gary Nyland, who would have been one of the best defensemen probably of that era, ended up with knee problems. Like a lot of players that just got ushered into the NHL too quickly as a

manager. How sensitive are you about one? I mean, you always talk about, you know, showing the horse, showing the horse, showing the horse.

But when you draft kids, whether it was in the eighties, like McNamara or, you know, when you ran teams, how sensitive are you around not showing the horse too soon well the issue is if you're wrong on when how quickly you bring a kid along you can ruin it it's not a case of setting him back you can actually destroy

his career you can ruin his career to bring him on too quickly. So we would look at the preseason schedule, try and handpick games, handpick lineups to give the player the best chance, the best look, the best people to play with, enough toughness around him. We'd try and tailor the results so it would make the player look as good as possible. But my test, I always sent them back. I sent almost all my guys back. I sent Bobby Ryan back. I sent Cadbury back.

Cadbury went to the American League because of the four-year rule. But in general, I believe the guys needed more time. So I sent them all back. I remember when Matthew Kachuk came out in Calgary, Matt Stajan was talking to him. And Stajan's a great kid. He said to Kachuk, he said, Matthew, you probably should stick, but no one Berkey. He'll send you back. I always sent those guys back. Um, unless they clearly made it.

Matthew could Chuck, we had decided to send him back and tree came to me. We'd already talked to Ken King about it, the late great Ken King. And I called Ken and said, we want a second chance. We want to talk about Kachuk again. And Ken King had a horrible temper. And he said, I've already talked to ownership about it. That ship has sailed.

I said, no, it hasn't. I want you to talk to Tree and me about it one more time. I was at a grand opening of a Moxie's restaurant in Calgary. We went and did the call together. And Ken, God bless him, Ken said, okay, I'll tell Murray we're keeping him. I always wondered, was the plan, and we all know how things ended up, but was the plan for Matthew Kachuk,

I know the early years were kind of awkward with suspensions and behavior, et cetera, but was the plan always that eventually he was going to be the captain of the Calgary Flames? Was that the plan for Matthew Kachuk? Matthew Kachuk was a bit of an anomaly for us because he was so mature off the ice. You talk to Matthew Kachuk, his draft year, interview him for the draft, talk to him his rookie year. You thought you were talking to a 30-year-old. You'd ask him his rookie year. He thought he was talking to a

30-year-old. He asked him questions about hockey. He had a great answer for everything. He was thoughtful. He was pretty immature as a player on the ice. So there's a little balance there. We had to kind of keep him in check, but also bring him along. And I don't think we ever discussed that early that he would be the captain. Certainly, it was in the cards someday. How many times, if ever, did you try to, wherever you were, bring in his dad? Not very often. I still believe this. Same thing with Sidney Crosby when his dad was around.

I felt that when you brought the dad in and tried to make him part of the program, it would react poorly with the son. Sid would feel like I was trying to manipulate his dad or coerce his dad into doing something. So we never did it. You're not going to mess around with Sid. So I think you misinterpreted the question.

When you were managing managing whether it's you know I'll tell you the Ducks for example did you not try to bring Keith Kachuk in to Anaheim oh as a player yeah as a player oh yeah I'm sorry I misunderstood the question um no we tried to bring him in it was the only the only trade that Henry Samuel Adito because it didn't work for us on the salary cap. And Henry's a lovely man. He's a great guy. I consider him very fortunate to call him my friend.

We called Henry and said, we're doing this trade for – Bobby Ryan was in that trade for Keith Kachuk. And we felt we really – it would put us over the top. We felt we could have made that deal. We'd probably have two rings instead of one. And we went and Henry said, I'm never going to overrule you on hockey matters, Brian. He called me Brian. No one, hardly anyone else does.

He said, but I have to observe the budget here. That doesn't meet our budget requirements or our salary cap requirements. So I'm going to turn you down. So we had to turn the deal down. St. Louis was not happy about it. So was it a one-for-one? There were a couple other things involved, a couple of picks involved. Okay.

Didn't you also try to bring in Joe Thornton, Anaheim? Yeah, well, we talked to Joe Thornton before he got traded to San Jose. Michael Conway has disputed that version of things, but I'm confident my version of it is the right one. I called him and said, we know you're trading him. We'll protect five guys. You can talk about anyone else.

I said, if that won't do it, call me back and maybe we'll protect four guys. Now look at our team then. Look at the players we had for the four guys or five guys. Would have been a real stretch, a real hard thing to put the fifth guy or sixth guy in that deal. But we were willing

to do it. We were fishing with big lures back then. We knew we were close. Berkey, right now it's the Christmas trade freeze. I was on with Sekeras and Price earlier today. And one of the questions was, you know, what do you think happens with managers during a trade freeze? They can't actually do business. You know, central registry is shut. No one's filing trades. But how lively are the conversations still during the trade freeze? And how often do you sort of put

together either the structure of a deal or actual deals while the freeze is on and then announce them as soon as it's released? If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations. What matters is that you have something there to adapt with you, whether you need a challenge or rest.

And Peloton has everything you need, whenever you need it. Find your push. Find your power. Peloton. Visit Peloton at onepeloton.ca. Well, you know, my trade for you started well in advance of the other teams. I really believe players shouldn't be traded around Christmas time. I've believed that for years.

The one year was as early as December 1st we put it in. So I know it annoyed other GMs too, which made me feel good. The notion of... I lost sight of the question here, Jeff. Sorry. What happens? It doesn't change anything.

Everyone still talks. You still work your phone like you've got to trade. You're always doing the work anyway. So you do a deal. It might take three weeks to do a deal. It might take three minutes. But you do the work.

And what I would always do is call and say, okay, here's what I'm looking to do. The best guy to deal with that way was Paul Homer. Paul Homer would call and say, okay, here's what I need. I need a left winger. I need a second pairing right shot defenseman. Here's the guys I'm willing to trade. Here's the guys I've already drafted I'm willing to trade. Here's the picks I've put in the trade.

So you know in about 30 seconds whether there's a fit there or not. You wouldn't have a deal, but you know if you can make a deal or not. So that was how I tried to deal too. I tried to make it simple. Here's what I'd do. Now, you still disagree on price. So many deals don't get done, but you can frame the issues going in. It's much easier. So yes, even though the trade freeze is on, the phones are working nonstop. At any given time, do all managers know what everybody else is looking for? Like, oh yeah, this is Montreal needs this. The Rangers need

that. Uh, uh, you know, uh, Los Angeles needs this. Does everybody know what everyone else wants slash needs? If you're doing your job, you should know that you should have an idea. If you're not doing your job, you can be in the dark for sure. And what I did is I figured out real quickly out of the 30 roughly GMs, there are 10 you could easily make deals with or make repeat deals with. That's the best test of a GM, whether you can make more than one deal with them. Second group of 10 is it'd be hard to make a deal, but they're still willing to do a deal. The third group, the third 10, you're never going to make a deal with them unless you make a terrible deal.

And I stopped calling those guys. Instead of calling them every, I tried to talk to everyone every five days. I stopped calling that third group. It'd be every 20, 25 days. Like Darcy Reguer and I, a good example. Darcy Reguer is a friend of mine. He's a great guy. We could never make a deal. And finally I called him. I said, Darcy, we're friends, right? He said, yeah. I said, yeah, we can't make a deal. I'm talking French and you're talking Italian. We cannot make a deal. Let's see if we can make a deal. We tried to make a deal.

We finally couldn't. Finally, right the last year I was there, I traded Dominic Moore to them. That was one deal I made with Darcy. That was one of the many times that I believe Dominic Moore was traded for a second round pick. I don't know if there's ever been a player that was traded for more second that I believe Dominic Moore was traded for a second round pick.

I don't know if there's ever been a player that was traded for more second round picks than Dominic Moore. No, I think that's right. He was traded for second rounders so much. Now, one of the other questions that follows that is, Regier was someone you were most comfortable with that you couldn't get trades done with. Who are the GMs that you were most comfortable getting a deal done with well i'd say paul homeward we we paul worked for me so it's easy and hard for you coach for me so once he became a gym in philly we had a lot in common obviously i met him first time i met him I fought him in a summer league. Had a great fight. Well, it was great for him.

It wasn't so great for me. We've been friends ever since and he worked for me in Hartford. He was probably the easiest to get to see if we could make a deal or not. We didn't make that many, but he was easiest to talk to. Glenn Sather, same way. He was a bit

of a pirate, but really bright guy. Fun to talk to. Glenn Sather, same way, he was a bit of a pirate, but really bright guy, fun to talk to. I'm glad you mentioned the word pirate because once upon a time, and I don't believe that this really exists anymore. Everybody wants to, I'm doing what's right for that guy. I want to be able to do more deals. But when you started as a manager in the NHL, like there were pirates,

like when you shook hands with someone, you counted your fingers afterwards, right? Like that's the way that it was. It's not like that anymore. Everyone's well, both sides got to come out looking good. And then that, like, can you describe that environment where every phone call, you know, the guy at the other end is trying to take you, and you're

trying to take him. Yeah, you're right, Jeff. It is different now. It became different a long time ago. But when I first started, it was like that. The goal was to skin a guy so badly that he would get fired. And they would brag about it. I got this guy fired. I got this guy fired.

Glenn Sather, Harry Sitton, and Lou Nanny was a pirate. Yep. Cliff Fletcher was a smiling pirate. He'd hold your hand and wave at you while he cut your throat with the other hand. Those guys, they were merciless and ruthless. And their idea of a good deal is that you got canned after it was over. So it's different now.

It started changing when I was a young GM. But that group, yeah, they were horrible to deal with. So then here's my question. Wonderful guys. Sure. Really bright. Harry Sitton is one of the smartest guys I've met in my life. I love talking to him, but I had one hand over my wallet the whole time.

So here becomes the question, because I love this. You've told me this story before, but for this audience, I think this would have been the first big trade that you made. And that was the Bobby Hohle deal, Sean Burke, Eric Weinreich. The story of Brian Burke in his office with his phone, picking up the phone, starting to dial, hanging up, going for a walk, picking up the phone again. Like when you know that everybody at the other end is ready just to pounce and you're the new GM in town and you have no one around you, it's just you, your brain, and the phone. What was that Holiq deal like to do? Well, the thing I felt badly about, I told Bobby Holiq this afterwards. I had just called Bobby in.

There were all kinds of trade rooms about Bobby Holic, and I called Bobby in. He was a great kid. I said, Bobby, I haven't talked to anyone about you. We thought he was a key part of our future, big center, play wing, strong, win face-offs. We thought he was going to be around for a long time. But then Lou, right after I made that call, Lou had heard through the grapevine, he says, is it true you're talking about Bobby O'Leary? I said, no, I haven't, but I would. And so we made the deal. I had to call Bobby and say, Bobby, I didn't lie to you.

I didn't make that up. But I was nervous about that. Lou, I played for Lou. We're dear friends. I owe him a lot, but I still, Lou is pirate too. I did it. I hung up twice. I dialed the phone and hung up. Well, I went for a walk. I used to walk around the building. I used to walk around the concourse of the arena, GM Place, or whatever rink where I worked at, Hartford. I went and walked around and did a couple laps around the concourse,

came back, called him again, hung up, went back two laps around the rink, came back, called him, and made the deal. So I was nervous. Your first time. And guys are not gentle about it. They throw anchors at you right away. They're trying to strip you right away. So Lou tried to get you fired with that deal?

No, that one he wasn't. I made another deal with him. I traded Vadim Sharifin out to Lou for a non-playoff second-round pick. And I called him later. I didn't want to do the deal. I didn't like Vadim's skating. Great kid. I didn't like his feet.

And I did the deal reluctantly. My staff pushed me into it, so I did the deal. And I called Lou and complained. He said, you called me with that deal. You can't call me and complain about deals that you were initiated that originated with you. That was your deal. You can't complain about it.

I'm like, got a point. Yep, got a point there, Lou. Okay, this one from Gord. Gord says, hey Berkey, back when you were working with Pat Quinn in Vancouver, which player did you have the biggest argument over? That's a good one.

Which player did you butt heads the most over in Vancouver? Josie Charbonneau. Oh, yeah. So Murray Oliver, God bless Murray Oliver, the late, great Murray Oliver, wonderful man, great guy, great judge of talent. He and Pat were inseparable. And Pat Quinn took everything that Murray Oliver said as gospel. man, great guy, great judge of talent. He and Pat were inseparable.

And Pat Quinn took everything that Murray Oliver said as gospel. So Murray walks in one day and says, we're going to get Josie Charbonneau. And I said, I hate Josie Charbonneau. And so Pat said, well, at some point you gotta, you gotta accommodate these two viewpoints, Pat. At some point, Murray, you and Berkey have to get along on the side. So he said, why don't you sit on the kid? So I flew to Hartford. I watched the kid play.

I believe it was a Thursday night against Montreal. Then he went to Montreal and played his second game. He had two goals, one assist, and two fights. So I came back, and Pat said, well, we got to do the deal I guess he looked at the two games he was awesome he was excellent he was the best player on the ice so if that's a yardstick it's a small sample size

but yeah let's do it did the deal it didn't work out great kid but it didn't work out Dan Woodley went the other way he only ended up playing a handful of games in the NHL. Let me ask you this. It's Christmas time. How many times would a player have come up to you,

even during the freeze, and said, I just need to know for my own mental health, my own sense of well-being, when the freeze is over, am I staying or am I going? And do you think you would owe it to the player to tell him? I don't think you'd. I never had a deal in the pipeline. Guys don't like dealing guys at the Christmas deadline.

It's not just that I put my own deadline in. That's a family time, especially with Swedes and Finns. They have to come from Europe. They've got to plan their vacations and their holidays. I don't think you see a lot of activity around there, although we just saw some the last couple of days. So, so much for that theory. But I think in general, there's not a lot of activity.

That never happened. No one ever said to me, am I done as soon as we're gone here? But I did have guys come to me and say, screw the freeze. I want out. If it was a guy that wasn't getting enough ice time or the coach didn't like him, I would say to him, okay, as long as you're asking to be accepted from it, that's fine. So, Drake Barahowski for one year.

I told the team I wasn't going to trade any players early on in the season. Drake Barahowski, great kid. He wasn't playing much. I said, Drake, I'm accepting you from that comment. So I'm going to leave the team alone except if I get a chance to move you. And how did they go over? He wanted out. Mark Crawford didn't like him.

Drake was a good player and a good guy. He wanted out in the worst way. He just didn't want to complain publicly. So I said, we'll get you out of there. It happens. Mark Crawford did a marvelous job for me in Vancouver. He was a great coach for that team, a great guy, a great friend. He will be forever.

But we had differences in opinion on guys. We fought over different guys, and Drake Bearhouse was a guy I didn't like. How many other guys did you fight over with Crow? Well, it depends on after the game. When I went down right after the game, I'd have a beer with him, and he

wanted to get rid of four guys. That's every coach. That's every coach. That's every coach. By the time we finished the beer, he'd be down to three. Then he'd come back and after meeting the media, he'd be down to two. Then we'd go and have a bite to eat and drink afterwards. He'd be down to one guy at the end of the night.

That's awesome. Okay, a tweet question from Shadow on the Door. What would Berkey's approach be with the buffalo sabers look this is tough for kevin adams right now this is 11 in a row we'll see what happens tonight uh the maple leaves are the home team at the key bank this could be a disaster for the buffalo sabers comma again if you're running the, what would you be doing right now? Well, I like Kevin Adams. He's a friend. I don't think he needs advice from me right now.

But if I were going to tell him anything, I'd say just go slow now. Because right now, you're at your most vulnerable point. You've lost 10 in a row. The owner just gave you a vote of confidence and said we're going to leave things alone. And you got blown out again. It's a time where it's very tempting to make a short-term move that makes you a little bit better. I would say as much pressure as you're feeling right now, just go slow.

And the comments, he's getting fried for it. We don't have palm trees. I would have said the same thing. It's just stating a fact. They don't have palm trees in Buffalo. They have wonderful neighborhoods. It's a great hockey market. They have great schools. People play there palm trees in Buffalo. They have wonderful neighborhoods. It's a great hockey market. They have great schools.

People play there, love playing in Buffalo. They have great fans. It's a wonderful market. But it's not, they got no palm trees there. I looked. I checked. There's no palm trees there. It's like Paul Murray said in Winnipeg.

As you're sipping on your iced latte or whatever it is, cappuccino or whatever he says, it's not so bad here in Winnipeg, you know, as you're sipping on your iced latte or whatever it is, cappuccino or whatever he says, it's not so bad here in Winnipeg. Buffalo is a wonderful place to play. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We know how life goes. New father, new routines, new locations.

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I thought you always reserved that line for checking how many Stanley Cups they award every year, Berkey. Well, I checked that too. They're awarding one. Still just awarding one? Okay. As long as you've checked on time. When the calendar flips, check again. We'll see how many cups are awarded. Okay. From Johnny Lazarus. Curious who you think the best at developing young players is in the NHL. Which organization? Developing players. Well, I think there's a few teams that do a really good job.

The problem is you get close and your team's good, you've only got to develop one guy or two guys. When you're terrible, you might have to develop four or five guys. So it varies. Situationally, it varies. I'm getting that one guy over the hump. I think Dallas probably has been the best the last few years.

Dallas has a steady stream of guys that they draft and not necessarily that high and find a place for them to play. Having Texas as their farm team has been great for them. So I'd say they'd probably get the nod now. I'd say Tampa didn't that run. I'd say they've done a really good job getting through two cups

in the finals one other year. And they're constantly shuffling players. And I'd say those would be the two that come to mind dallas i think deserves the most the best the highest marks for that you know that entire i mean the development piece is that is a huge one and we'll give a nod to rich beverly um for that who works in development with the dallas stars but joe mcdonnell and his staff for identifying players like to your point, like Haskinen was a high pick, sure, but go right down the list. Robertson, Stankhoven,

Nottinger, these are not top 10 picks. These players are all going to be with the organization for another 10 years and they're always going to be competitive. Like I talk a lot about Joe McDonnell, former Kitchen Ranger coach, et etc. He's done a marvelous job with Dallas. Who was, in your experience, your Joe McDonnell, the guy that could find players all over the draft? Hey, Berkey, it's good. We don't need a top five pick. I can find players.

Well, Mike Petty worked with me for many years. He's still around working for Toronto still, I believe, or maybe for Vancouver now. But I thought Mike did a real good job. He's the one who found the Pavel Bure draft. So he's going back a ways. He's the guy that fought me on the Lakefield Lean draft. I drafted Lakefield Lean too high.

Mike told me at the time, you're taking them way too high. We can get them in the second round. So Mike Penny, Kevin Maxwell and Hartford found guys for me and continued to do that with the Rangers. I'd say those two guys I worked with. Dave Pullen was not a scout, but Dave Pullen, because of his background in college hockey,

he would come back from a game and say, we've got to get this guy or that guy. Almost always right. You mentioned college hockey. How do you see the scenario right now? I mean, everyone wonders how this is all going to land now that NCAA has redefined what CHL players are, namely the ones with contracts or pros, the ones without are amateurs and can play Division I hockey.

What are some of the questions you have about this new reality where it's not a recruiting war anymore. The only war is going to be how quickly, what are you looking at, Berkey? How quickly players end up leaving the CHL. Well, I'm not sure how quickly they're going to leave. They've got to work this out. They've got to come up with some kind of mutual release date. So I don't think, this is the same thing with NIL and the transfer portal.

We're looking at an unprecedented period of change and turmoil in college and amateur sports. So to me, they should come up with a system where the player can choose to go one time. You can make an election. If he wants to play, excuse me one sec. You're going to have to get out of here, sir. We're doing an interview here. Well, you're making way too much noise. Attaboy, Berkey.

I'm not getting in the way of this. Everything good, Berkey? Everything's good. All right. I don't lock the door at the office. They're mad at me. Okay, all right. He looks like a good guy, but I can't hear.

So I think the NCAA and the CHL have to figure out, sit down and figure out, okay, what's best? The whole issue of the scholarship package just comes into it. So if you turn pro at 16 or go to the CHL at 16, they put a year in the package. You go at 17, they put a year in the package. What happens to that if you go play NCAA after 18? Do you walk away from that?

Are there truly four-year scholarships in the NCAA? Because I don't believe there are. Many people don't observe four years, most of them. So they've got to sit down and come up with it. In my opinion, what will work is play wherever you want. If you want to go from the CHL to the NCAA at age 19, so you've gone through a draft, you know, if you're going to be a high pick or not, if you thought you were,

maybe you went in the fourth round, you're a good student, now you're going to go and take your take your talents to ncaa and get a degree i think it could benefit both sides if we work out that players go where they want early on and have an option to come back to the ncaa if they want to if we have time i want to swing back to your your time at providence um but really quickly from the chat, Zach Anderson, Berkey, what was it like dealing with Bobby Clark, the GM? Was he as ruthless as a GM as he was a player? Yes. Bobby Clark was really tough to deal with on discipline.

I had more arguments. It was Pat Quinn and Pierre Lacroix, two late great friends of mine. But Bobby Clark was ruthless on discipline. He'd call you up and tell you you were an idiot. You can't give three games for that. He'd call and complain about officiating after every single game. He'd get called in the office. I remember doing a playoff game.

It was the same night that Billy Guerin chopped Peter Forsberg and clipped him on the cheek in a playoff game in Edmonton. Oh, yeah, shaving cut. The shaving cut. Yeah, shaving cut. So I did the game. I was at the game. I used to watch one period with one GM, one period with the other GM, and I watched the third period with the standby referee.

So I went down on the spectrum. Don Koharski worked the game, worked a brilliant game. I went in. I'm sitting with worked the game, worked a brilliant game. I went in. I'm sitting with the backup referee, and Coho comes out today sweating like a pig. He worked so hard. He said, let's see him complain about that game. He called a great game. So, of course, 30 seconds later, there's a knock on the door.

Mr. Clark would like to see us. So I went in the office. He laid it in. When you work with the Flyers, you have to memorize the game. They complain about every call, so you've got to remember them all. He'd say, well, you missed the trip halfway through the first, yeah?

Cole missed that call, but he made a call, identical call, against that team two and a half minutes after that. So go through and analyze the game. Yeah, a couple calls we'd like to have back. But overall, it was a great game. So that's the type of thing with Clarkie.

But yeah, he was a hard-nosed guy, very unreasonable guy. Great guy when he wasn't working, though. Wonderful man. How was it? I always heard the stories about Ed Snyder calling as well, the owner, the late owner of the Philadelphia Flyers, that he wasn't shy about picking up the phone to to bark at the NHL he uh I got a physical altercation with Mr. Schneider so Mr. Schneider

was very proud of me because I went to Harvard Law School I was one of his players he had already owned the Flyers and the Maine Mariners when I first turned pro so he said put his arm around me we go to league functions. This guy would play for me in Philly, play for me in Maine. He went to Harvard Law School. Harvard Law School. He was so proud of me. But he came out.

He was at a playoff game. I took all the kids to a playoff game, an afternoon game on a Saturday. And the Rangers and the Flyers played. It turned into a rugby match. Debo was the referee. Paul Dvorsky, great referee, great guy, but he didn't want to put one team down, and they kept taking advantage of that.

He wasn't going to blow the whistle, so it turned into a rugby match. Not an uneven rugby match. It wasn't like anyone got screwed, but way too much contact that should have been called. So after the game, Ed Snyder walked by me. I was standing with my kids, all my kids and a couple of their friends. We came down, went to the Liberty Bell, went to the Carpenters Hall, went to all the sites you see in Philly,

and we were going to drive back after the game. It was an afternoon game. And Mr. Snyder came up and started bumping me. At first he walked by me and said, what do you think of your blankly blank referees? Then he came back and started bumping me like an umpire, like Sparky Anderson or somebody, Earl Weaver. He's bumping me chest to chest, swearing at me.

And so he walked away and Patrick says to me, Dad, why didn't you hit him? I said, Patrick, I was at six. I was counting to 10. I was at six. So I didn't say a word about it. I didn't say a word to Mr. Snyder or anything. So the next thing, you know, Batman hears about it. He calls me and he said, did you get an altercation with Ed Snyder?

I said, yeah. He said, why didn't you tell me about it? We can't have that. I said, he just had a bad day. It was a bad game. And Devo let the game get away a little bit. Just let it go. He said, I'm not letting it go.

I'm going to fine him half a million dollars. I said, no, don't. So Ed Snyder called. Mr. Snyder called and apologized. I said, Mr, don't. So Ed Snyder called. Mr. Snyder called and apologized. I said, Mr. Snyder, the only thing I objected to was you swearing at me in front of my kids. I didn't mind the bumping or anything else. That was the end of it. What type of relationship, like you talked about the Samuelis a couple of moments ago. I just had a quick chat about Ed Snyder. Who are some of the other owners that you were friendly with,

have great stories about? We don't hear, I always bemoan the fact that we get a lot of books from players. We get a lot of books from coaches. We get referees. You're one of the few managers to ever write a book.

So we don't hear a lot from managers and we never get books from owners or should I say seldom get books from owners. Peter Pocklington wrote one, which is actually pretty good, called I'd Trade Him Again, the Wayne Gretzky story. But who are some of the great owners that you had relationships with? Well, I worked for Mario in Pittsburgh. Mario was great. He was just fully supportive.

David Morehouse was the GM. Ron Burkle was the other co-owner. David Morehouse was the team president. Totally supportive. David Morehouse was the GM. Ron Burkle was the other co-owner. David Morehouse was the team president. Totally supportive. Never interfered. Wonderful people. I had the good luck of working with... Murray Edwards was the majority owner of the Harley

Hotzkers after he passed away, and I went to work there. I dealt with Murray Edwards. I dealt very well with Murray Edwards. Good guy. Tough man, but good guy. Mark Chipman's a wonderful guy. So there are a number of owners that I would happily work for again if I got the chance. Phil Anschutz, the owner in LA, is a wonderful man. So there's a whole bunch of them. Some of them aren't so good. Some of them are a pain in the ass. I don't like them. i don't talk to them when i went to league meetings i ignore them some of them are really nice the jacobs families were were charlie and jerry jacobs have always been nice to me uh big willie style in the chat berkey who's the

toughest player you dealt with um i mean physically toughest uh you could You could go both ways. You could go physically toughest or you could go toughest negotiating a contract, for example. That might be an agent issue, but your choice. Well, one of the toughest negotiations I ever had was with Ronnie Sutter. And Ronnie Sutter was playing in Vancouver and he wanted Richie Sutter. So I said, Ronnie, Richie Sutter. And Richie wanted 200 grand. And I said, I'm not giving you 200 grand, Richie.

I was doing the deal with Richie himself. Richie came in the office, did the deal himself. It's so hard when you love a kid like Richie. He's a great kid. They all are. All the Sutters are wonderful. But you don't want to pay him. And if you're going to give him any extra money,

you're going to give it to the guy who doesn't have an agent. So I said to Pat, he wants $200. And Pat said, now that I have more than $195, I don't want to start with a two. Richie came in and told me about his run and his wife. And I was like, okay, I'll give you the $200. Pat didn't talk to me for about a week. That was probably one of my toughest ones.

What did you think of the Sutters as players? Like no denying how hard they worked, no denying the success of the family. I remember talking to one person. This is years ago. And I said something about the Sutter family, but all of them worked super hard, whether it's Ron, Rich, Brent, Brian, all of them. Hard, hard workers.

And this person spun around and said, of course it looks like they're working hard. They can't bleep and skate. No one ever said that they were graceful skaters, but that was a family that all worked hard on the iceberg well they weren't they weren't polished skaters but brian sutter i think one year he had 29 fights and 39 goals yeah like these guys were legit they all played tough they all played hard they all backed it up any kind of fight that i'll turn on whoever the closest guy was i love them all i know i know them all to talk to i've worked with them work with ronnie work with richie um talked to did a charity event with brian and

and uh in a stale so i've known the whole family over the years it's been a great gift to me to have gotten to know them all and to work with them all. They're wonderful. They could skate. They could all play. They could all influence the outcome of a game, which should be a true test of a good player. Can that player make a difference in that game?

And a setter could always do that. Big Willie Style said, who was, this is a follow-up to the previous question, toughest player to deal with, he said, in trade negotiations? Toughest GM? Yeah. Oh, boy, that's a long list. I mean, I've had people tell me I was on that list because I'm not going to.

We tried to, this is something young people should know we always try to set the price tags for our trades in advance so it never come down to negotiating skill you never get talked into a deal so i would meet with my guys and say cold eyes out dave known as dave pool and our coaches what's the most we would give for this guy we said okay we do this guy or this guy so charlie jones or brian smith and a second that's as high as we're going to go that's as high as we go so it wasn't ever about negotiating skill we set the prices in advance and that's the best way to avoid getting skinned in a negotiation you might be wrong on your prices but you'll never lose the negotiation on negotiating ability you'll just

lose to set your price wrong so i fought tooth and nail with guys over money i prided myself on fighting over money i told our players you're going to fight for the money here it's a hard cap system i don't get to keep the money i save on you i spend it on a different player so if i take money from you i'm'm spending it somewhere else. So I don't feel badly about taking money from you. So yeah, you're going to fight for your money here. Never gave him the money easily because it was going to someone else. If I could save 10 grand,

that was going to a different player. From Stratik, I'd like to know Berkey's opinion on the Caco Borgen trade as it is a trade over Christmas and one where both teams are making what seems like short term moves under pressure

this was an interesting one we saw Capo Caco lip off about being scratched the full trade is Capo Caco in exchange for a Will Borgen a third and a sixth so Chris Drury and francis get together on on this one berkey well this to me it's like the philip roberg trade there sales deal in this on capo caco was capo caco was a player who has not yet lived up to his promise as a pick he was a

very high pick he's a big kid he's good kid. But he hasn't produced yet. He hasn't fit in on any set line for any length of time. He hasn't performed at a high level over time. So they're taking a chance here. They gave up a couple of picks, middle picks, and a prospect or a young player. Will Borgen, I like Will Borgen. I'm sure he's a great kid, but he's a five or a six or a seven. He's a hard-nosed right-shot defenseman who can't do much with the puck. So it's not an expensive trade.

It looks like a salary dump of sorts, which I don't ever mind when they do that. The guy players pitching, he's dragging their team down. Now the issue becomes there's a Philip Robert who Doug Armstrong brought in thinking he can be dramatically better than St. Louis that he's been here so far. And so far he has. So St. Louis likes it. It looks like they've won that part of the deal.

That's what I think Ronnie Francis is betting on. The capital capital can go to Seattle and turn it into something special. Like he was thought to be at the time. Now what Chris jury does with the cap room he's got after that. We'll see. Let me ask you about one, one more player here, and that is Luke Shen. So Luke Shen this week, I'm not sure if you saw the Nashville-New York Rangers game. There's one of the more unique sequences we've seen in hockey in quite some time.

So he's got the goaltender down. Shesterkin is down. His pad is up, and Luke Shen takes six shots in three seconds at his pad, just trying to hammer the puck, I don't know, through the pad. One of the most entertaining things and one of the most entertaining moments on a game sheet that we've seen in a long time.

I know Luke Shen was always one of your favorites. Do you have a thought or two on Luke Shen who gave us kind of a laugh this week, taking six identical whacks at a puck, trying to put it through Igor Shcherkin? Well, people weren't in a hurry to knock Luke Shen on his ass. I would point that out. Very fair. People are a little nervous about knocking him on his ass.

So that shows you a lot about Luke. But his shooting percentage went way down. His course, he went up, though. His course, he went through the roof. He's a great kid. I love Luke. I traded him, but I've really enjoyed my time with Luke over the years. Still stand touched him. He's a great kid.

Was that the deal of the draft that you didn't want to make on the floor? Was that that one? I was afraid to do it on the floor. The draft was in Pittsburgh. There were like 3,000 Leaf fans. Everyone loved Luke. I thought if I trade him there, I'll get booed by my own fans in the building I don't even play in.

So I waited. We did it on the phone driving back on I-90 to Buffalo like a coward. I said to Homer, and Homer said to me on the floor, let's do this now. I said, no, we're going to do it in half an hour. He goes, why? I said, because I don't want to trade Luke Shannon in front of 3,000 Leaf fans, so I'll love this guy. So I waited and did it on the phone on the way back.

Pure cowardice. That might be one of the few times you could accuse yourself of cowardice, either on or off the ice, Berkey. Listen, on that we'll wrap. There's a civilian knocking on the door who wants to get into this room desperately, Brian. You can let him in. Listen, to you and your family, best of holidays. Merry Christmas. We'll catch up soon, my friend. Thanks. Merry Christmas, everyone.

Thank you. There he is, the great Brian Burke, former NHL general manager, or as Brian always points out to me, Zach Phillips, manager. He said, managers don't call each other general managers. They just call each other managers. Always stuck with me. Um, what else do we have here for today?

Have we, Oh, I know what I want to get into. Do we have time to do the Ani Gord interview with Piper Shaw? Yes. That was the one thing I was going to say to you. I want to do also quickly. Yeah.

That was one of the funniest moments ever. I feel like I maybe could have done a better job as a producer. No, but that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. And later in the chat, I saw a comment that just said quotes some civilian and i broke out laughing like tears in my eyes just behind the scenes here just reading that and reliving it i just wanted to say that was one of the craziest funniest things ever how how good was that death stare from brian brooks someone tried to walk in on the room

where he was doing the interview? I thought he was going to jump the table. I was like, I don't know what to do right now. Just think for a moment. Like, what's going to be going through that guy's mind? He opens some door at Mattamy Athletics. Now, that's the old Maple Leaf Gardens, folks. That's where TMU plays, and there's a Loblaws underneath.

And me on Friday nights. Is that where you play your Friday night games? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you try to Michigan, by the way, last week? No, no, no. Come on, no. Good. You kind of talked me out of that.

Good, I talked you off the ledge about doing that men's league. I don't want to see you show up with a neck brace on Monday, Zach. But opens the door and there's Brian Burke staring at him. But what I loved about that moment as well is he completely ignored the show. I was like, I'm going into Brian Burke mode. And just death stare at the guy. And I'm like, should I start talking here? Like I'm thinking of the people that are listening on podcasts and not live and not in the chat.

Chat must have loved it. Like, should I talk here? But then I'm like, people that are listening on podcasts and not live and not in the chat chat must have loved it like should I talk here but then I'm like no don't ruin the moment you know don't ruin the moment kind of like Muhammad Ali could have hit George Foreman one more time in Zaire but he's like oh no he's falling this is going to be poetry I'm just going to leave it

that's what I just did Brian best there in that dude I'm sorry jeff i can't stop laughing about it it was so awesome what are we talking about the beginning of the show what's one of the hardest things to get people to do laugh laugh laugh um before Before we get to it, that was really good. I don't know, some civilian trying to get in here. Some civilian. It was pretty good. We're going to throw that clip out later for social?

100%. 100%. Okay, you got to get me off the screen. I can't stop laughing. Okay, go to the Piper Shaw, Yanni Gord. I want to have a couple of things about this one. You keep giggling. Put up Piper Shaw and Yanni here. Sorry. I'm sorry.

It's great to see you back out there with the team. How would you assess your team's work through that first 20? Unacceptable. Awful. We need better. Too many turnovers. We're lacking reload. We're diving in. They got way too many turnovers, we're lacking reload, we're diving in. They got way too many opportunities.

This has to stop. We need to find a better way. Joey's been phenomenal, obviously, but you might have the save of the period there coming through the blue with that cut, blocking that shot. What was your perspective of that play in that moment? I mean, again, we gave up a three-on-two, three-on-one. Joey has to make a stop, and we're scrambling again.

We've got to get that out of our game. All right, and then what do you guys need to do when it comes to just limiting their opportunities off the rush? How do you slow that down? We've got to put it deep and go to work. That's where we're successful. We have to stop making turnovers at the blue line. We've got to put it deep and go to work. Trust our structure.

Trust our play with the puck. And if we do that, we're going to be better. But this out there was not good enough. Okay, great interview there by Piper Shaw. But some legit honesty there from Yanni Gord. You know, so I was watching that game. That's Seattle-Chicago. Chicago ends up winning 3-1.

Capocalco's debut uh my first thought watching that one was I'm looking at a coach like did you not see like there's some players that you look at and you say you know what I can see that guy's gonna be a coach I can see that guy's gonna be a coach if this guy wants it he can probably be a coach. I remember after that interview, all I could think to myself is, Yanni Gord's going to be a coach. Like you listen to him talking, just like being respectful to Piper and all that, but like, no, no, no, no, no,

this is BS. No, this was awful. This is where we broke down. This was like, our regroups are awful. You can't get a D, you got to get it behind the D, all of it. Like, I know he's still playing.

I'm not trying to wind down Yanni Gord's career, but when you're watching it, aren't you saying to yourself, this guy's going to coach one day. Like he's still playing. I'm not trying to wind down Yanni Gord's career, but when you're watching that, aren't you saying to yourself, this guy's going to coach one day. Like he's got that perspective. You know, that was, yeah,

that wasn't the first like takeaway I had, but that like hearing you say that now and thinking back to how he answered those questions, um, that makes a lot of sense. Like I was thinking, cause I saw people being, Oh yeah.

You know, is he going to get in trouble? Like, is his teammates going to like this? I don't know. I mean, I, oh, yeah, you know, is he going to get in trouble? Like, is his teammates going to like this? I don't know. I mean, I just like, I liked how he answered everything. It was not like, hey, we played like shit, blah, blah, blah. It was this is what we did wrong.

This is why we failed here. This was, and it was like pointed. And it's kind of like, that was awesome. We got to see inside, like how this works. I thought that was a very cool interview, but like how this works i thought that was uh i like how interview but i like how coach aspect i i like how he didn't big up joey to court to his right no he had to stop that shot because we effed up essentially what he said like yeah great save but because we screwed up yeah put him in a position to make great save like oh yeah joey's great like

we've got confidence back there great goal about no no no he had to make a save because we screwed up we're so bad out there i don't know i thought it was awesome and congratulations on suppressing the giggles by the way although i know as soon as this goes off the air you're just gonna start laughing again but that's okay but that's okay because you know what on the chat saying some civilian right now and it's like i just kind of like not look they're asking for it on t-shirts sub-civilian brian burke oh my god for the sheet brian burke friday december 20th 2024 it was so good well like also too i mean like just breaking this down he looked right and then i was like

okay this only happened and i hear noise and then berg's head snaps i'm like oh no some civilian okay i want to wrap the show you Warm up with your laughter because there's going to be more laughter you're going to need later on tonight. No, don't say that. I know it, but don't say that. You know what's going to happen, right? Put your head back. Here comes the drill. You've seen this before.

And listen, Bricky even referenced it. When he was managing the Toronto Maple Leafs, we couldn't beat Buffalo. We changed everything. Different hotels, different meals, different everything. I don't know't know different skate profiles i don't know a different blade profile who know they change everything doesn't matter doesn't matter death taxes and the sabers well as long as lindy ruff can take the fans out of it tonight okay everybody everybody watching i want everybody to watch this hey zach you ready for this okay everybody watch this yeah hey zach some civilian

let's go broadway let's stay out for another 15 minutes Just saying some civilian to Zach This is good this is making my week End of the week It's been a long one weekend coming up It was just like The interaction was funny enough To call the guy a civilian

What Okay we're going to let Zach off the hook here I called the guy his civilian. What? Okay. We're going to let Zach off the hook here. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, everyone. I got to call it together. We're very professional here at the sheet here on the Nation Network.

We run a real tight ship here. All business. Very buttoned down, serious program we have here, delivering serious hockey information. We take this as seriously as voting. All right, that's it for me on behalf of the giggler, our man Zach Phillips, who I can still hear in the background. I think Zach laughing, I might want to make my new ringtone. Whenever Zach calls, I just want to hear him

laughing, saying, some civilian faintly in the background. Some civilian. I might want to do that. That's actually a good idea. Alright, everybody. Thanks to everyone in the chat. Please hit subscribe. Please hit that

like button. That's important for our interaction metrics or something. I'm just told that it's a good thing if we do it. Well, if you do it, that'd be wonderful. We'd appreciate it. Thanks to all the subscribers. Thanks to all the listeners. Thanks to all the downloaders.

Thanks to you so much for tuning in this week, whether it's live, whether it's on the podcast, watching clips, interacting, making comments. And I think some civilian's going to take on a life of its own here on the sheet. Thanks for joining me. Enjoy your weekend. We're back Monday, three o'clock Eastern noon Pacific. We'll see if Zach stopped laughing by it. Have a great week. I spent 16 hours last night, every day this week, every day this month. I can't get out my head, lost all ambitions day to day.

Guess you can call it a run. I went to the doc, man, he tried to give me a little medicine. I'm like, nah, man, that's fine. I'm not against those methods, but it's me, myself, and others. It's going to be fixed in my mind. I turned on the music. I turned on the music. I turned on the music.

It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. It's enough. I've been on the dance the way I roll. If you're looking for flexible workouts, Peloton's got you covered. Summer runs or playoff season meditations, whatever your vibe, Peloton has thousands of classes built to push you. We'll be right back.