The Sheet with Jeff Marek - Wendel Clarke on Gretzky, ’93 Leafs, World Juniors & His Toughest Fights

Episode Date: December 25, 2025

Season rolls on with a special holiday edition of The Sheet as Jeff Marek sits down with Toronto Maple Leafs legend Wendel Clarke for an unforgettable long-form conversation. Clarke dives into everything—from his Saskatchewan roots and early days skating on frozen ponds, to World Juniors memories, farm-boy strength, learning the game as a bruising defenseman, and eventually transforming into one of the NHL’s most feared power forwards. He reflects on coaching minor hockey, developing his vicious wrist shot, being drafted first overall, the 1993 playoff run, battling Wayne Gretzky, his famous fight with Marty McSorley, training-camp wars, Harold Ballard and King Clancy stories, the Sundin trade, and why certain eras of Leafs hockey were far tougher than fans remember. It’s Wendel Clarke unfiltered, raw, hilarious and insightful — perfect for Leafs fans, NHL history buffs and anyone who loves the game.Reach out to [e-mail] to connect with our Sales Team and discuss opportunities to partner with us!If you liked this, check out:🚨 OTT - Coming in Hot Sens | https://www.youtube.com/c/thewallyandmethotshow🚨 TOR - LeafsNation | https://www.youtube.com/@theleafsnation401🚨 EDM - OilersNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Oilersnationdotcom🚨 VAN - CanucksArmy | https://www.youtube.com/@Canucks_Army🚨 CGY - FlamesNation | https://www.youtube.com/@Flames_Nation🚨 Daily Faceoff Fantasy & Betting | www.youtube.com/@DFOFantasyandBetting____________________________________________________________________________________________Connect with us on ⬇️Link Tree: https://linktr.ee/daily_faceoff💻 Website: https://www.dailyfaceoff.com🐦 Follow on twitter: https://x.com/DailyFaceoff💻 Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dailyfaceoffDaily Faceoff Merch:https://nationgear.ca/collections/daily-faceoff#TheSheet #WendelClarke #TorontoMapleLeafs #NHL #JeffMarek #Leafs #HockeyHistory Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, this is great. First of all, Wendell, before we talk about you, which is one of our favorite things to talk about. I love that Wendell Clark jersey, by the way. The old school, 1917. Have a look at you. Look at that, hey? Number 17, never looks so good.

Where's Bruce and Scott? Before we talk about Wendell Clark, I want to talk about one of my favorite. hockey players, Robert Thomas. Robert Thomas is the first line center for the St. Louis Blues. Robert Thomas played minor hockey here. He played minor hockey with Wendell Clark's son Cody. He's

a Stanley Cup champion as well with the St. Louis Blues. He's a Memorial Cup champion with the London Knights and right over there in the St. Louis Blues outfit is his grandfather and beside him is his father, Scott. For a round of applause for some

Stanley Cup royalty in the house tonight. that's probably Scott that told you to put the cup there so to rub it in my face, didn't he? Where's the Memorial Cup and everything else that Robert's accumulated over the years? Quick thought on Robert because your son, Cody, played with Robert growing up a little bit. Yeah, no, I was the same age group. I lived on the wrong side of the line, so it wasn't York Simco. I went to the city with my son and played,

but I was very fortunate to coach the kids in the summer hockey when we got to stack a team. and put just enough kids on and have some fun. We basically understacked a team so that everybody got lots of ice time. Yep. And you had no arguments. And it was just, and it was fun. All the kids got along great and the parents got along good.

So we had some fun in the summer. I was going to say under-staffing the team always means everybody gets ice. Everybody gets, you have to play everybody. And you know who doesn't complain? The parents. No, if you lose because you're tired, it's perfect. But that's usually it. that you don't, coaches don't have to make a decision.

He just next up goes. Yeah. What was Robert? By the way, my producer is around Zach Phillips, who played with, where is he behind me? Who also played with Robert growing up, playing minor hockey as well? What kind of player was Robert? Well, much like you see in the NHL, very patient and cool with a puck, very sturdy set of legs, could draw people over and then feed it.

He loved passing more than shooting. I think he would stick handle it until somebody finally cut up to him and then he'd pass it to him say put it in the net that was uh robert but very like just fed the puck made everybody on the line better that that was his biggest asset he really did no matter what team he played on you watch him in st louis now does it does the same stuff he's outstanding uh does that does that jive with uh what you gentlemen observed from from robert pretty much uh he's one of my favorite hockey players i know i'm biased i've watched him for a long time tremendous athlete and fingers crossed we'll see him representing

in Canada at the Olympics in Italy as well. What is this time of year, Wendell, before we get into all the hockey, give us this sort of wrap, even going back to Calvington, Saskatchewan. This time of year, leading into December, Christmas on the horizon, what does Wendell Clark remember of

the early days? Well, if you go way back to the early days, and you guys remember this, we had no artificial ice, so I still wasn't skating in an indoor rink yet because we had regular natural ice, so the ice didn't come in the rink till just before Christmas. So we'd be skating

outside in the ponds or something first. That was our early until I started going to the city to play. And then when I was 14, we got artificial ice. 13, 14, Kelvinton finally got artificial ice. But that was it. This time of year,

harvest finally comes. So we get snow every year in Saskatchew, I grew up. Halloween, you were always jumping snow banks with your costumes on. I can remember that as kids. You always knew that was snow on October. 31st and you had it until just before June at home. What are your earliest memories of putting on skates?

My mom hated it because our kitchen had linoleum. So my dad, he played lots of hockey. So he would have us put the skates on at a year, when we could walk. So whenever I could walk, we've got skates. So I was skating at walking in skates at a year and a half, two years old on mom's linoleum in the kitchen. Not a very happy mom, I'll tell you that. And so, because he had mimicked, like walking on here, it mimicked ice.

Of course. Yeah. And so that was, he had us walking on that. And then his, my dad's version of teaching us how to skate was he put you at center ice during public skating and leave you there. And you would cry and crawl to the board as he'd pick you up and put you back at center ice again. Until you learned how to skate, then you skated and never cried anymore. That was a school of tough knocks from my, my dad's end, right in the middle of pill,

public skating, he'd keep you and sure later, because you'd want to hang out with all the other boys and girls that were on the ice, you learned how to skate and be a part of it. I heard a story once that your dad, one of the reasons why your wrist shot was so vicious and

violent, like the best in the NHL at your time, is it true that your dad never let you take slap shots? There was always wrist shots. Is that true? Yes, I, well, I never played, maybe you guys don't know, but I never played forward until I got drafted to the trauma, may believe, so at 18, 19, I turned into a forward.

But before that, I was a defenseman, and my dad was defense, and he'd go to the city and buy a half dozen sticks at a time for his kids, and then he would heat him up on the oven or the blow torch, and straighten them all dead straight, because he didn't like curved sticks, because when he grew up, there was no such a thing as a curve. So all the sticks were straight, and then he said, no slapping the puck, period. And so I, in order to score, and when I played minor hockey,

I wasn't allowed to score more than three goals in a game. And if I did, I had to shoot it from the blue line. So I'd skate to the blue line and then just shoot, because the goalies only come halfway up to the crossbar then. And so, you know, five or six, if you could shoot, you could just shoot over the goalie's head. And so I basically got the wrist shot from never allowing. So I never even really took one until the newer technology came along.

Right. Just learning to snap the puck. So when did you first start to? Like, what was the experience of using a curved stick for the first time like then? If you're growing up with like the Dave Key on, Cindy Crosby straight, straight blade. It's, it's, uh, um, and today, when I started teaching the kids, it was, it was hard because in the old days, you had to learn how to shoot a puck with technique if you wanted a hard shot. Because we had no technology. You couldn't bend that big wooden stick when you're a little guy.

You could barely wrap your hands around it. So you had to have technique, shift your weight from back to front and go heel to toe with a wrist shot. And once technology came, we changed how we taught kids to shoot the puck because as long as you could get the stick to bend, the puck would fly off the stick when you watch these guys today. So then it was just about, it didn't matter if it was coming off the toe or the heel. As long as you get the stick to bend, the puck would move.

And so today, everybody can shoot a puck hard. But there's still only two guys in every team that knows where it's going. That's the only thing that's changed. In the old days, we only have a few guys who could shoot hard, but there's only two that knew where it's going. Well, today's the same. All those guys can shoot the puck really hard, but there's only a couple of them that actually know where it's going.

But the stick and technology for kids now is that a huge, huge help. There's a player who plays in the OHL right now with the Sue St. Marie Greyhounds. His name is Brady Martin. And he got to hockey late, was just casual, just like to have fun with his buddies, ended up playing AAA with Waterloo. I think he went to the OHL Cup semi-final a few years ago.

Anyhow, he just got drafted by the Nashville Predators. And going into junior hockey, he had never done a traditional workout. He was just farm boy strong. And Matt Nicol, who's a legendary strength and conditioning coach in Toronto, finally got him in the gym, and he's like, this kid is incredible.

Like, there's all these other kids who have been, you know, lifting and in the gym, and he's dusting him, just blowing them away. with like old school farm boy strength, great grip strength. You know, Nashville's got a really good one in Brady Martin. When I say farm boy strong, what does that mean to Wendell Clark? Well, that's probably a good angle when we used, or if I played against physical hockey players at the NHL level, we'd say that.

That's, that's, that's farm guy strong. That's not, we were never scared of a guy that was really strong because of barbells and weights because that was just, that's what he could do. He could bench press you. but a guy that was far strong would have been the Hunter brothers growing up when you played against them you could feel it Brad McCrimmon

was probably one of the stronger guys that you just felt it when they went like that okay he's strong and nothing to do with his size but just it's straight and then I watched and when I made the Leafs and then met all the 67 guys that played on the team the older fellas

and you'd shake their hand they grabbed and it was just they were just strong His farm guy strong. It had nothing to do with the size of a guy, but just straight strength. At what point did you realize that this was more than just a hobby? That this was more than just having fun with my buddies at the outdoor rank and you had a real shot at it?

I think you just kept graduating to the next level. You never, for me growing up in Kelvington, Saskatchewan, we only seen hockey 6 o'clock Saturday night, which was 8 o'clock here. And here you got Wednesday and Saturday, twice a week watching. We're back home. You got, in the 60s, they showed the Leafs games.

In the 70s, they showed Montreal across Canada. Because they show whichever team was getting to the Cups, that's who they showed usually on the national game. And so we at 6 o'clock on a Saturday, us kids were all at the rink playing shinny or somebody watching somebody play, and your parents are at home watching. And so the NHL seemed way too good.

There's not a chance that you'll ever be as good as those guys on TV. But you looked up, because of the small town, you looked up to the senior team in town. So on Thursday nights, it was a senior hockey home night. So you'd go and watch the guys play senior hockey, which is usually an array of midget kids through 45-year-olds playing senior hockey. And you thought that was some of the best hockey. And then when some kids, a little older than me, would play my older brother, play junior. And the great thing out there is everything's on the radio.

So you'd listen to the tier two games, Yorkton Terriers, Humble, Broncos, Prince Albert Raiders were tier two then. Then you'd listen to the Saskatoon Blades and the Regina Pats. That was always on the radio. So you'd listen to those guys and recognize some names from the neighborhood. They're from the area that may be playing. And my first hockey school I went to was in Yorkton, the Dennis Plonich Hockey School. And the instructors were Dennis Plonich, Mike Plonich, Bernie Ferdurcoe, and Ken Ferdurcoe.

Oh, wow. Ryan Prop. So those are my first instructors. So then I got to play against him in the, in the NHL. And at my first hockey school, I was banned. I wasn't allowed to shoot on the kids unless I played in the older group. And how old were you at that time? 12.

I was not allowed to shoot. So they moved me to the older kids and said, okay, now you can shoot on the goalies. Yeah. Were you always like a tougher hockey player? Always like the physical side of it? Yeah, that's my handicap now is why you're sore is because I played physical and had fun doing it. I never fought, though, ever until junior. Really?

No, because my dad would have... Western League was your first time going for it. First time fighting would have been not until junior because my dad would have beat me up if I had fought before that because he didn't... He says, why are you getting in a fight in minor hockey? There's no even rules for it. So that's when I coached, and you get in Toronto

and the Don Cherry area, everybody wanted kids. Oh, my kid's going to be a tough guy. He should fight. Well, no, he's 12. He's got to learn how to play hockey. and you could see it changing and you'd be trying to tell the parents hockey's not the way it was

and so but physical play was always always a part of so I was always a power forward or a power defenseman I guess growing up I want to get to a couple of your your rougher and tougher moments in the NHL but before that

I want to talk about the world juniors because that's on the horizon and it's always a big time in Canada always expected to win gold and I remember Sherry Basson telling me a story about you and as you mentioned, you were a defenseman and there were no more forward spots

available on Team Canada at the World Juniors. This must have been 84. 84? 85. 85. There was no spot on the World Junior team for a forward. But as I was told by Sherry, he said,

Wendell, or sorry, no spots on the blue line, sorry, Wendell, we have a spot up, front but you got to do two things you got to play forward and you got to cut your hair because you had the big long no i know but before then you had those lot that long hair the hockey hair yeah at the back yeah you had that great so do you remember that conversation you can play if you're forward and you cut your hair yeah well you can remember because i think it was a year after that did tsn not pick up the world juniors i think in 86 or 87 they started it was it was i think it was after 87 because there was that big brawl in people

Stanley. And it was a year after the TSN picked it up. And you remember at 7 in the morning, they'd always show kids getting cut on TV. And I used to think, how archaic is that? Because all those kids that get cut from Team Canada, that's the first time they've ever been cut in their life. And TSN showing it nationally on TV at 7 in the morning. I was going to say, the way they used to, the way they used to do it, I look back on it now and Wendell, like at the time, I never thought anything of it. But I look back now, well, certainly as a parent, I look back on it and I cringe. What they used to do is, it's like six in the morning or seven in the morning? Seven in the morning

and the cameras would be there. And if you're a player and you've got to knock on your hotel room door, that meant pack up and go home. And the cameras would be there. It was tears and 17 years. Tears in the kids' eyes. They're walking

down the hallway to the elevator. Oh, how cold is this? Yeah. So I got that call. So I think and I'm getting cut. So I go to the coach's room, meet Cherry Basson and Terry Simpson and they basically said in order to make the team would you play forward because we want to take extra defensemen on top of and and so john minor from the regina pats and myself both made the team as forwards or defensemen because they wanted to take extra because

world juniors was in finland so in case somebody got hurt that was our extra guys and he knew we were both physical offensive players on defense and we play Bob Basson would have been the center on the fourth line. So he says, I'll just create a fourth line that can skate and hit is what their idea was, a kind of real Canadian hockey. And Dave Gertz broke his leg in the first exhibition game. So then we were down a defense. So in World Juniors was the first time I'd ever played defense in my life.

I played three games at defense, or I mean, every time played forward, and I played three games at forward. So the Toronto Maple was it on the wing? Was it on the wing? On the wing? On the wing? On the wing. I played three games.

They'd put me with different guys or during the game, they'd switch it up because the game that we tied our last game against the checks, Dominic Hasick and net to, we had to tie the game to win the gold medal. And we were losing two to one. I'd played defense the whole game. I got moved to forward for a shift in the third and we scored. And so the Leafs must have only scouted me for three games.

Because I only played three games forward the whole time. but and the world juniors is your biggest thing for that's the first time as kids because usually you're pretty good all the way up the kids they know they're going to make the team every team they try out but when you try out for team Canada there's a lot of good hockey players so you have no idea if you're going to make it that's the first real pressure for pretty much all these kids whether they make it or not and the year I made it and we didn't know this because there wasn't coverage like today and to get back to the forward thing Todd Gill got cut, Joe Newindyke got cut, Gary Roberts got cut, and Patrick Waugh got cut. All off that World Junior team, they all got cut because Roberts made it the next year.

And I was telling the story how you, you know, I was doing a thing for the world juniors and basically you're talking to the kids and saying you got to do anything wherever the coach tells you to play, you do it. And it's a one-time thing for a month.

And, you know, explaining my situation, oh, I was a defense from my whole life. I accepted playing forward, and Gary Roberts kept looking at me. And he goes, you mean to tell me I got cut because they moved the defenseman to forward? He wasn't as happy with my story as I was telling it. But that was the whole premise. And then Jerry McNamara, who was the general manager for the blades or the Leafs of the time, said, and I didn't know this until three months before Jerry passed away here,

I had a coffee with him. And he says, no, you were playing forward from the time I scouted you. My scouts didn't even know. I didn't tell them that you were going to be a forward, whether it doesn't matter what they scouted. I had you at forward. Can we pause a little bit here and have a conversation about Jerry McNamara because he was one of my favorite people to talk to.

I miss him dearly. We were making plans to have lunch, like a month before he passed away. Just a wonderful man. And Jerry McNamara, before he was a general manager, the Toronto Maple Leaf was also a scout. And I consider Borya Somming to be one of the best players to ever play in the NHL full stop, period, last call over. He was a phenomenal athlete, a great defenseman, someone that endured, you know, punches and slashes and cross-checks and all of it and never changed his game. And Jerry was the guy that discovered him in Sweden, a lone scout, going to an obscure arena and finds Borya Somming and Inga Hammersstrom and brings him, and brings him, and brings him.

brings them back. To me, he's one of the most important people in the history of the Toronto Maple Leafs. What did he mean to you? Yeah, no, like, I was going to play. It didn't matter. As long as I wasn't going back to the play junior, I didn't care what position I was playing. You're 18 years old. You're just happy to be in the NHL.

But Jerry had put together, we, as I tell people, I was fortunate enough in the 90s, got Dougie Gilmore and Pat Burns' coach and Cliff Fletcher. We had a pretty good team to go to the semifinals. Our team in 85 through 87 actually had more talent than our 92, our 91 to 90. We never had a Doug Gilmore. Yeah. But everybody was the first pick

and everybody was the top 10 or better pick. A lot of young defense. You know, Benning and Nyland, Gary Lehman was a defenseman and they moved him to forward. Russ Cortnell, Aya Frady, Todd Gill, Kenny Reg at Allen Bester. We just had nobody to put it together. Yeah, we had all this, and you had Boria Salming, and another thing about Boria,

and I played with Stevie Eisenman in Detroit, and to this day, Stevie Eisenman considers Boria Salming the second best defenseman to ever play in the NHL behind Bob Yor. Yeah. That's what he thinks of him, and you think of it when Boria played here, had Boria played on the four cups with the Islanders, the four cups with Montreal, the two cups with Boston. think of him as a player getting to play with those type of lineups. He played against those lineups.

So Potvan got to play in a lineup like that. Bob Yor got to play in a lineup like that. Robinson, Savard, and LaPointe got to play. Imagine Salman getting to play in a team that won four cups in a row. He had to play against the Leafs who almost got there and then punched dismantled. There were probably two players away and punched dismantled the team. That was that close.

And they didn't want to compete against it. WHA, so they let Henderson go and Mahavulich go and that young defense with like Ricky Lee and Jim Dory and like all those young guys, just let them all go. Let them go. And that could have been like the foundation. Sorry to make it depressing from Maple Leafs fans, but you probably should have won't at least one in the 70s. We want to bring up another era of not doing so well, right?

Okay, let's talk. Okay, hold on. Let's talk about 93 then because that was such a magical season. And before we did the preamble for all of it, there's one moment. that I will never, ever forget, it's burned into my brain. My sister was graduating from university at Bishops, and on the way back, we stopped at Montreal to watch game six. The Toronto Maple Leafs and the Los Angeles Kings were at a bar downtown.

I don't think it's there anymore. It was near the forum was called Cheers. And in the bar that day, it was me and my friend George, we're driving back to Toronto, and we're like, we can't miss game six, we're stopping, we're staying in Montreal the night, and we're watching. And in the bar was Patrick Waugh, Choctomers, a number of other Montreal

Canadians players cheering wildly for the Los Angeles Kings knowing they wanted no part of that 93 team and I can't tell you how many people have said there was no way that if it got to Toronto, Montreal in the Stanley Cup final, that Pat Burns and his team was going to lose to Montreal. Do you believe that?

We didn't lose a regular season game against them. Now Patrick Ward did set a record for overtime wins in that that year. So he was being the Patrick Waugh. But we had so much confidence. I know we played so much hockey because we played three rounds to seven games. So we played 21 games, I think, in 41 nights or something like that, and East West travel.

But if we'd have got the fortunate, you know, if we didn't get Wayne Gretzky, you know, what do you get, nine points in the last two games? That game seven was like the best game he ever played too. Like, you've got to pick a night. Yeah, no, like he, and, and the, They would have shut Canada down for two weeks to watch the old original six teams go at it. 67 all over again. That was, and they didn't want to play us.

Kirk Muller said they were running up and down. They were happy in the hallways when they beat us. Because people didn't realize how good L.A. was because they were all young kids, and we're always sleeping before the West Coast plays. So you don't really know all the young guys that they had that were pretty good. And so they were young, and they weren't supposed to be there either. And so when they won that first game, I think L.A. won the first game.

And they, it was like a Stanley Cup for them to even beat us to get there. So then it wasn't the same game. And Montreal just took over game two on after the called illegal stick. They just on Marty. On Marty to the next level, Montreal. And Patrick was Patrick. Patrick did that to me when I was playing in Detroit, my second last year.

We were up two nothing, two games. games to nothing on Colorado, our goalie got hurt. So we had to put our backup in, and Patrick Watt turned it on. And they beat us four games to two. And that's how good Patrick was. So I can't say for sure we'd have beat Montreal, because I seen it in Colorado when he woke up. That was nothing you can do about it. He's that good.

In that series you have with the Los Angeles Kings, one of the big flashpoint moments that all Maple Leafs fans who saw it live will always remember. and it'll live on in infamy is your fight with Marty McSorley. So Doug Gilmore comes over the blue line. McSorley hits him with an elbow from the cellar. Like one of the most vicious elbows we've ever seen and right away, you go to Marty and I swear Wendell,

I don't know how he stood up because you hit him with, and I've watched all your fights and the Ben Wilson one was a doozy. But I don't know that I've ever seen you throw three harder punches faster than when you hit McSorley to start that fight. Can you take us back to that game in 93? Well, take it just before we were playing Detroit and getting set up. And in the Detroit series,

they had another fellow that Mr. Probert guy was playing in Detroit. And I was told by Pat Burns before the series starts, no matter what happens, you will never be fighting Probert. That was his, like he said, so remember the first two- You were under orders? Under orders, you will not fight Probert. so I think we lost 7-2 and 8-3 in the first two games in Detroit we lost badly and I'd be looking back at pat going are you sure I can't do anything and because that you know when the teams get their game plans going the coach has it it's all set out for the series and so we end up smart play we end up beating them out in seven games but then when Dougie got hit I remember he didn't say I couldn't fight Marty there was no rule on that one and Marty was very smart doing for his team

and the reason why he didn't go down, Marty, farm boy tough. Like he's a tough cause, his whole family, tough customers. As we were going to win that game, I think it was 5-1 or 5-2 at the time at the end of the game near the end. And he was

setting a tone for his team, more his team than us and that he knew that would cause something. And it did to let us know that this isn't over. That's what he was sending a message for his guys and to us. And so I'm not being, you know, us guys, we don't get smarter until our late 40s.

Right. So when I think about it back in 2010, 10 years after I retired, why did I go after Marty? I should have just skated over the bench and one punch that Wayne Gretzky guy. Because he's the guy that got nine points in his last two games that beat us. He bit, Marty hit our best player. I should have just imagined the heck that would have caused with the NHL. If I skated over to the bench, grab number 99 right there. And because he's the guy that beat us.

But Marty was doing his job. And, you know, to Marty's credit, he started out in the NHL as strictly a tough guy. Couldn't play. And by the end, he earned himself to be able to play in every situation and turn himself into a player. So full kudos. But Marty McSorley was also my first two fights ever in the NHL. My first. Is that when he was with Pittsburgh?

He was with Edmonton. I was a rookie. Okay, in Toronto, so in the old way to pick your spots, Wendell. Yeah, well, my first fight, think of it, what I want to like, how bad our organization was, tiptoe into the water, isn't it just diving into the deep end? Day two of training camp. So I'm drafted. Think of this, Maston Matthews gets drafted first overall. Day two of training camp, Jim Benning and I have the same agent. Jim Benning calls Donnie me in and says, tell Wendell to have me heads up because Bob McGill's coming in to fight him on Wednesday, day three. At training camp. So the team tough guy is coming to test how tough

I am. I'm trying out for the best player spot. I'm not trying out for team tough guy. So I got to fight the team tough guy day three in my first training camp in the NHL. And then training camp. So us players, and now we have computers and everything. But back then, the best thing we ever got us players all liked was the game notes in the morning of the games. So Marty would have went down the game notes and seen in junior that I had over 200 penalty minutes every year. So he said, well, let's just see. And my biggest problem was in the first fight I fought Mark, because I fought him lots after this. My first fight with Marty was against their bench in Edmonton.

And by accident, the player door opened. So I fell in their bench on top of him in front of all his buddies. So that's like an automatic win, even though you didn't really. throw much but it was like I ended on top in front of all his so then it was like the rest of the time that we ever played he wanted to fight and that that was Marty being doing

his job and stuff so that was the first and then year two John Brofey at training camp was our coach so now let me pause John Brofey by the way wonderful guy loved tough hockey as a player he was

tough as a coach he was tough he wanted all you'll talk about 200 pims. He wanted his whole team. Every guy, 200 pimps. That's what he wanted. Sorry, go ahead. No. And so first day at training camp, my second year, Kevin, or no, Kevin McGuire is trying out for the team. So he sends Kevin McGuire to fight me. I led the team in scoring. So he sends the guy out of the minors to see if he's tough to fight me. So here I am fighting day year two in training camp day one.

And I'm not ever trying out for that spot. He just happened to be good at it, Wendell. But that was, and so Kevin had to make the team, so he's going to. And so then he come back to fight a second time because he went in to get stitches during camp. And John Brofey went out of the stands scouting down into the trainer's room and kicked him back on the ice to get in another fight. Oh, geez. So then it turned into a bench clearing brawl because our veterans and Russ Cortland ever jumped in.

And said, this is ridiculous. But that was Brof. He wanted, John Brofey was playing, he used to play in the East Coast. He's an East Coast coach and player. That's the level that he was, and that was real tough hockey in the old days. Long Island Ducks. Yeah, and he, Terry Sex-Smith was a tough guy. He was our trainer in Saskatoon, and he remembers him because he got in a fight with him.

And John Brofey was in getting stitches. And so he was sitting in the penalty box, and out from across the ice, John Brofe, Rofi comes skating with the thread and the needle hanging out of his head to come and jump in the penalty box after Terry Sex-Smith to get him back. He was so mad he didn't even wait to get stitched up. But that was

bro. He just loved that and he was so intense. So when he was coaching in Toronto, our team doctors were there every game to take his blood pressure because he'd be going through the roof. So our doctors were lined up after the first period

to make sure he wasn't going to pass out on the And he had like the shock of white hair. And when he would get angry, his face was like tomato red. It was like one of the funniest things. They'd always do that one shot back to the bench. And there's Brof just spitting and his face is getting red. I'm like, someone's got to check this guy's blood pressure here. Make sure he's going to be all right.

He's the angriest guy on the bench, Wendell. Yeah, no, it was. And that was our back in the old days, our Chuck Norris Division. I call it Chuck Norris Division because the Norris Division was that's pretty much all played. Jacques de Merse was an East Coast guy. So all these guys battled each other coming up as coaches, whether it be in many of their management,

Brof in Toronto, Jacques and St. Louis or Detroit. So they hated each other just from their battling days in the East Coast League. And so it was a real battle. If you played in the Smyth Division, it was skill and talent. Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Flying, they could all skate. Adams and Patrick Division, they could play a little of both. And the Norris Division was Chuck Norris Division. You didn't want to be up to or down two goals

because that means the ugly guys get to play. And so, and that's just how the game turned out in our, because we weren't as good a division. The teams in general weren't as good. But the games were so much fun. They were, oh, that's the one thing I missed about today's hockey and us, you know, not playing very well right now. So you're at the end of the second period.

We're losing four to one. Right now it's like, I think I'd just rather get out of here early you didn't watch the third period. Well, in the 80s, you didn't want to leave because if the game was 4-1, you knew we were going to lose as a fan, but you knew there was going to be some fun stuff happening in the third period.

The other guys get to play. And we always called the other guys, whether it be Kevin McGuire, Dave Samanco was with us, Ty Domi when he started. Brian Curran. So there was going to be some fun, different kind of action going on.

So the fans never left. And today's game, that's the one thing. You don't really see that intensity. till playoffs. Then once playoffs hit, playoffs are always the same. All eras are the same in the playoffs. But regular season now,

it's more of a skill and match-up game and not the way it was back in the old days. Not a question, just the thought. I'm going to give you two names. What comes to mind right away? Harold Ballard and King Clancy. King Clancy was the nicest person I've ever met. He did everything there was in hockey

from reffing to coaching to playing. and the biggest thing with Harold and I never got to know Harold when he was younger I knew Harold when he was older and when King Clancy passed away that was his last friend Harold changed when King passed away because they would meet every

King Clancy would drive and I don't know how he did it he would drive and park in the back of the gardens walk to the hot stove and him and Harold would have breakfast every morning at 8 he'd have to ask you every time walking down the hallway where the door was but he drove to the rink so I don't know how king got to the ring

but he drove to the ring but couldn't find the door when he got in but king was he was probably the nicest guy I ever met and he had the he wasn't doing anything then but he had an office up in the in the offices up there and he was just he did everything in hockey and I think when King left

there was no sounding board that could calm Harold down like because King least played the game Harold never played the game or grow up with the game. So he didn't know it. So King was really a sounding board. And what about Harold himself? Harold was a...

He could be a galvanizing guy for a lot of people. Yeah, no, he was... My parents loved him because when he'd fly to Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, and he'd go out there, sit in the stands. He'd take my mom and dad for lunch or dinner all the time. They thought he was the greatest guy. Russ Cortnell's mom, he treated us really well. Even as a team, Harold treated us well.

We were never going to win because he knew nothing about hockey. and he wanted to make all the decisions. And that's where Jerry McNamara couldn't make the right decisions. Gord Stelich couldn't make the right. They had a very tough time doing their job because they had to talk Harold into the decision they wanted to do. They couldn't say, Harold, this is what we're doing. They'd have to do a whole circle and make it like he come up with the idea.

Make it sound like, oh, Harold, you came up with this great idea. We were thinking about it all night. So now the deal is too late. And that Harold was at the end and not thinking straight. But he was this thing of it. He was the first one that took the top 10 rows or so out of the grays and put box seats in to make more money. And everybody said he was crazy to put boxes in.

He says, what do I take the cheapest seats out and put the most expensive seats in? And so he did that. He bought the Hamilton Tiger Cat so he could put advertising. Remember he put the banners on the Hamilton Ticat banal behind the visiting bench. So it was on Hockey Canada every night just to rub it in the Toronto Argos. oh yeah that was like he had like he would and he was the first one if you go in the media today how people on all these new social medias good press bad press harold thought it was all good good or bad like in july if it was a bad day in july he'd think of something to make sure

the leaps are in the press and he he was ahead of his time on some of that he was that stuff because he just keep it out there and he uh and and he had the and he was He wasn't, in today's world, he wasn't a rich guy. He basically owned the Leafs, and that was it. And he really... You know what? That's a really good point, because most people that own sports franchises, they have the business that...

They have their own business that got them rich so they could buy a hockey team or a baseball team or a football team. But you're right, Harold had the Leafs. He ended up getting it because of Smyth going... Yep, Stafford Smyth. And so then you end up getting the Leafs, and then he had... That was, and the Toronto Maple Leaf, to this day, when loser draw, the Toronto Maple Leafs are this big and strong. They are the only professional franchise in all of North America.

Have 18 million fans to make 18,000 seats work. Think of New York. They've got five NHL teams in the area. Toronto has nobody until you get to Ottawa, Buffalo, Detroit, Montreal. In that side, in that middle there is 18 million people. all for one team, no competition. California's got three. Yeah.

And so Dallas Cowboys got Kansas City up the road. Like he's, we have, as the Leafs, you have, somebody's always going to go to the game because there's that many people in the area. So it makes the entity that strong. And, and that's pretty much why it can be that strong. There's that many people want to get into that building. You know, this, this city, not just. the city, but like all of Ontario and fans all across Canada,

had their hearts broken when you were traded to Quebec, the Matt Sundin deal. The, I'm Sherwood Basson told me he was talking to Cliff Fletcher about it. And when your name came up, Cliff said, I will trade Wendell Clark on one condition. And Sherry said, what's that? He said, I'll trade you, Wendell Clark, if you agree to put me in.

the deal because if I trade Wendell Clark they're going to run me out of town in Toronto put me in the deal I'll go to Quebec with them what do you remember I remember the in in North York at Mel Asman Square I was part of it at the fan had a big sort of send off for you what do you remember from the trade that took you to from Toronto to Quebec well you knew once Wayne Gretzky got traded to Los Angeles anybody can be traded so you're a free game we had no cell phones, no way of getting hold of me. I was shooting a Cheerios commercial in Mississauga. So I drove back to the city. I'm at the S.O. station, not that there's a big deal that I remember I was at front and Bathurst when I got traded at the S.O. station. And I turned

the radio station on to see who we drafted. That's right. Because the Hartford draft was on. The draft was on. I wonder who we drafted. So I turned the radio station on and that's when I heard I got traded to Quebec. On the radio station right there on that that street corner and then so then it's like okay and when i was going to my first training can't come to quebec so i was driving to quebec i knew i was in the toronto maple leaf anymore because i got my first traffic ticket on the other side of kingston for speeding when i was a leaf they just tell you keep going soon as i'm in nordic okay you're speeding here's your ticket and uh so that that's how i found out uh yeah there's no cell phone

My answering machine at home everybody trying to get a hold of you But I had no idea Did you have any idea that it was coming? No, I had no ideas First year that there wasn't rumors Like there was rumors in years before I remember Corson was involved

The Montreal Trade You and Lehman for Corson and Someone else And there's lots of all the stuff But then this was the first quiet year The second year going to the semifinals The highest stats I'd ever got Offensively playing

So it was two quiet So when you think back about it, whenever it's too quiet, something's going to happen. That is, but that's, that was just, that's all part. And Cliff did the deal. That was probably the most skilled team I ever played on that were young was in Quebec. Because of the Eric Lindros thing, when he wouldn't go to Quebec, at Center Ice in Quebec at the time, they had Sackick, Forsberg, Ritchie, Sundin, and, Edmarsh, where the five centermen, and there's not enough ice time to share. They're all number ones.

None of pucks. So they could give up and Toronto needed, because Dougie was getting along in the two, so Cliff was thinking, how do I get the next 10-year guy that can center? And that was his true calling was to get that player for the next, for post. He was thinking five years after Dougie and I were gone, really, for the next run. and this is one thing I always say, nobody knows this. I've never even told you this. Go for it.

I'm all ears. Matt Sundeen would have had 300 more points had he played wing than center. You are, I've been, listen, I'm with you about a million percent on this one. If you look at all of Matt Sundeen's big goals, and you think of the one against Calgary, on the wing, cuts to the middle,

sticks the leg out, and goes barred down. That's a winger's goal. His two best stat years. The year I got traded for him, he played wing with Sackick. His first year in Toronto, he played wing with Gilmore. Matt's was the big, strong skater, but not a great skater. Not like fluent, easy. He was a big, so if you'd have put this big strong guy, like you said, put the leg out, cut in the net.

Yep. He'd have been that big guy that didn't have to play in his own end, like Marner was for us. Picture Marner, but put seven inches and 100 pounds on him. That's Matt Sundin. You're right. You take Marner playing the wing and give him six inches and 100 pounds. That's Matt Sundin. That's how good Mats was.

And so you put, I always say if he would have played wing, but he always wanted to play center and be the guy. But he wouldn't have had to get tired. Wayne Gretzky never played in his own end. Yari Curry went back. Wayne took the draws, but Yari went back in his own end. Wayne stayed high and played wing in his own end, so he didn't have to work down low.

And so all these little things that would go on. What was it like playing against Wayne? I remember, and we talked about Marty McSorley, a couple of seconds ago, when I worked with Marty at SportsNan a few times, you'd go out and have a beer, and I'd ask him about Wayne, and one of the things that always impressed me,

this has always stuck with me. He said, one of the things that you will seldom, if ever see, is a picture of Wayne skating in front of the bench. And I said, really? He goes, you'll never see Wayne a picture of Wayne skating in front of the bench. He said, why is that? He said, Wayne Gretzky wanted to know

where everybody was on the ice at all times. And if he skated along the bench, he couldn't see who was going off and who was coming on. So we always stayed away from the bench because he wanted to know who was leaving, who was coming on. Like he had that kind of awareness of where everybody was on the ice at all times.

What was it like playing against that? That's totally, totally true with Wayne. He's the best player I've seen. And the reason I get at this, I know he may be played in an error where you got the most points all the time, but he won the scoring race by 50, 60 points all the time. Nobody in today's era does that. Not McDavid, not Crosby, not anybody.

Do they win every year by that many points? And Wayne Gretzky never once played in traffic, never once in front of the net never once flying through the middle never once did he put himself in danger one night in Toronto cutting through the blue line was at McCreary which there was that was the only time right along the blue line

right hit but he could dictate the whole game you think of it he could dictate the whole game and never be in any of the high risk areas where Crosby's in the middle of it McDavid's flying through it like everybody

and he Bobby Orr like How many injuries did he have playing in the middle of it? Wayne could dictate the game and you didn't think you did anything. You'd see the sheet at the end. He had six points. And yet he wasn't anywhere because people said, well, he had Marty

and he didn't have to protect him. I said, his decisions were already made three strides before you got to him. Like there was no reason he was that good. He could see the game. And I remember one time he'd hit Yari Curry behind him, and I said, how would you know Yari's there?

We said, I looked up and I counted nine guys. He wasn't there, so he had to be here. If I made that blind back pass, it would have been the other direction and scored on Podvan. But he could just sense and feel the game. Not saying he's the, like, Mario

individually in our era, I think it was a better individual player than Wayne. But put Wayne with a bunch of good players. I don't know anybody in that 87 Canada Cup Mario learned so much because he was a second year player watching Wayne around good players and he really helped Mario watch in him

and Wayne was just that you put Wayne on an average team he's pretty good you put Wayne on a good team he takes everybody's level to the next because he could really play and that's and he could do it without playing in traffic like he dictated the game and was never in the middle of anything.

Gail Howard Chuck, another guy, but he had to be in the middle of everything to be good. So that's how good I thought Wayne was. He wasn't ever in it, and yet on the score sheet, he was a part of the whole game every time. And that 93 series, our media guys in Toronto,

at the end of game five, said, Wayne Gretzky and Luke Robatai haven't showed up. I think they're finished. that's what our media said so you don't think Wayne read that game six and seven nine points our own media got in their kitchen and and uh but that's it but

but Wayne was like he he took I remember an 87 Canada Cup we were coming out and that's probably one of the most fun teams I got to try out for and got cut because every day you get to training camp in Montreal yeah one day Wayne Gretzky's your centerman. The next day, Dale Howard Chuck's your centerman. The next day, Dennis of Ars, your centerman.

You're getting to play with all these Hall of Famers. And when I got cut, I couldn't be upset because I got cut the same day as Stevie Eisenman and Cam Neely. So I said, if they don't look that upset, I guess I really can't be upset. Those guys are Hall of Famers. But Wayne, one inner squad game, we both used Titan hockey sticks. And one inner squad game, he said, Clark, I'm using your stick. he used my stick scored three and said here it is it's nothing wrong with your stick

since you're telling me it's not the stick then that my problem is right but he was so good he didn't he just like we're talking different legs different lie different curve and just grabbing it no problem he knew he was already making the team I think I did a pretty good chance but he he was that and he was the real team guy with everything he was always with and then be gone yeah but he always made sure everybody was together. I think Mario really learned a lot under Wayne that Canada Cup. Was that the best

hockey you ever saw? I've always maintained that 87 was probably the best year for hockey with a lot of things other than the Canada Cup too, but that Canada Cup 87 was the finest. That era, right there, 87 defined it, but that era was the best year for hockey for

fans. 100% true. Because you had skill guys, tough guys, good defensemen, great goalies, yet the score was 6'5, but Grand Fear wasn't bad. Hey, like you're, international hockey too. Canada Cup, Rendezvous. Like, there was some great international hockey,

87 too. Just the rules of hockey and how it was played for the fan, I think, was some of the most exciting hockey of how they, they called it then. You played in some great old arenas, starting with Maple Leaf Gardens. And then off to the Colise. both are no longer in use. One's a grocery store, as a matter of fact.

But, you know, in Montreal, you played at the forum. You played at the old Chicago Stadium. You played down the QEW at the old odd, where the seats weren't laid back. They were straight up and the fans were right on top of you. I guess Chicago was like that, too. The old Boston Garden, the spectrum. Did you have a favorite place outside of Toronto to play?

The favorite place is wherever you were. loved or hated. So Montreal, obviously, because that rivalry was still very big, because the original six. And I always watching hockey growing up was when he heard the siren in the Montreal Forum as a fan, and that had a certain siren sound. So when I got to hear it for the first time playing in the Montreal Forum, that's awesome. That was a neat, neat feeling. And the two buildings, Toronto and Montreal, were the last two buildings with low glass. So the side boards, if you're standing, I could grab the top of the glass. No mesh.

No plexiglass behind the benches, visiting or home. Heads up. So you could walk right, like, there was a couple of times Dan Maloney, our coach, or John Brofe, I thought we're going up into the stands after some of the fans. Because they were right on top you. And our fans would be heckling the visiting coaches and fans, like, because they were right there. Like, if you, if you had the end gold seats, the kids would walk behind the players, we'd be stealing the

popcorn from the kids right in the middle of the game. They'd be walking by with their popcorn. We'd be taking the steel and the popcorn. And so the old buildings, it smelled and was hockey. Where today all the buildings are generic. They're meant to concerts, basketball, hockey. If I dropped you in a building today with the lights off, you wouldn't know. If I dropped you in a building, Montreal, the old Chicago said you knew you were in that building.

The old Colisee, one of my best memories in there has nothing to do with hockey, although we were losing three or four nothing after the first period John Brofey was coming in and our goal he couldn't sit with the team because there wasn't enough room in the bench so he sat across the ice and the walkway beside the penalty box

because there was no room so he was going guy to guy tearing a strip off all of us he gets to Ken Reggett he's got the white jersey on or the blue jersey because we wore blue on the road then and he had a yellow mustard stain right down the front of his white

maple leaf in the middle of the game and he just walked out of the room no more to say because Kenny Regget was overeating hot dogs and the mustard went right on the white maple leaf and that yellow stain was right on the leaf on his sweater so that that was the call of say there

although I got in Ken Reggett's defense the shen shaw the hot dogs in Quebec or Montreal were the finest in the league yeah no you're the best food hot dogs shen shaw in Quebec and Montreal there's always 40 hot dogs sitting there post game, win, lose.

You couldn't show the coach, you're eating them if you lost, but they were always a staple in the dressing room. In Chicago Stadium, old stadium, he had to walk down a flight of stairs, and most guys, one guy, a game slipped, and you end up at the bottom, and the camera's looking up at you. And in the bowels of the old building,

and you get there for morning skate or the game, you had to empty out your hockey gloves and chin pads because the cockroaches would be crawling in and around all your equipment and so you'd be emptying all your stuff out and some of these old the Buffalo odd the old rink wasn't big enough so we got dressed

in the visiting team got dressed in two rooms so during the game the defense and the forwards never dressed in the same room same in St. Louis the old building you never dressed in the same room not enough room in the old and technically the Maple Leaf Gardens, the visiting dress room in the gardens,

if you were six foot two and put your skates on, you couldn't stand straight up, you hit the roof of the dress. So if you were taller than that, you had to bend over. So I can only imagine how hot that room was in the gardens. Oh, for sure. And so all the old buildings had these.

And in Detroit, the old Joe Lewis Arena, Scotty Bowman coaching. And so he has probably the best coach. as a technical coach and coach for everything, he would paint the visiting dressing room start of every playoffs. So you walk in, all you could smell was paint. So you'd feel faint when you got on the ice.

All you smelled was paint. Because new paint, you know, you paint a room. It lasts for, he would have that visiting room. Oh, no, we've got to make it look good. We're so happy to have the Maple Leafs here. We're so excited when we painted the room for you. And then they would sand the rubber walkways. You're walking out, dulling your skates.

Delling your blades, yeah. So the trainers, if they forgot, they always had to make sure they had to because it wouldn't be clean. They would make sure it was sanded before you went out to the ice. Didn't he also shorten the benches? So you'd be sitting down doing a squat. You would be burning your quads. Different height benches in the visiting and home. Scotty, he thought of it all.

When I played in Detroit, and he had figured out the whole playoffs of every team went to the Stanley Cup final, he figured out the Detroit had one less day off. and he would use that to the NHL. Like they already started complaining. So when you guys are watching the playoffs, you always see the managers and the coaches lobbying post-game about what's going on because they're just arguing to set something up

to try to get a call later. So Scotty had figured all these things out because there was nobody better at hockey. And if you were to talk to Scotty today, he still watches it that intently about everything. he was the best tactician, I think, at hockey. You know the curfew hockey stick story with Scotty? Yeah.

So what Scottie Bowman used to do is a curfew is 11 o'clock boys, make sure you're in your rooms. And he would leave a hockey stick at the front. At the bellhop, at the front door. And sure enough, the guys would be coming in midnight, 12, 31 o'clock. What the bellhop would say is, oh, don't worry, I want to see anything, but can you sign the stick for me? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.

Oh, can you sign the stick? Can you sign the stick? And next morning at breakfast, Who here broke curfew? No hands go up. Then he pulls out the hockey stick and he says, all these signatures were from after 11 o'clock last night. Now who broke curfew? A couple of the hands started to go up.

Moral of the story, never sign your own name if you're doing something wrong. Exactly. Right? So if I come in after curfew, Bobby Hall number nine, right? Never write my own name down. But, yes, Scotty, all the little tricks you see coaches. hiding behind plants in the lobby. So, like, if you think, if you're going to be late for curfew,

and Lyle Oldline always tell me, because I don't know if he ever made a curfew. That's true. Old guy from back home for where he grew up, he said, if you're going to miss curfew, miss it. Come in at five. Don't come in like an hour later, because everybody's still kind of coming in.

Make sure it's late. If you're going to miss heaven, don't miss it by two inches. Yeah, that's it. Really, really miss. Really go for it. And Lyle, Oldline, another thing. he'd play in Toronto because he had never, ever made curfew. And so at the start of the game, his team partners,

and Dave Litt verified this when he played in Jersey, he'd go, Dave, it's not going to be a good night. You're on your own. What do you mean I'm on my own? Well, I'm going to get in a fight. I'm going to tell the ref off, and then I'm going to get kicked out because there's no way I can finish the game today. So he already planned it that he wasn't going to feel any good,

so he would get in a fight and then get kicked out on purpose. and then the coaches wouldn't know because of what the other reason was. I want to open up the floor for questions. I'm sure people have questions or comments or memories for Wendell, and as we get set for that, one thing that I do want to ask you,

and I think it was against, correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was against Dallas. Tell us about coming back to the Toronto Maple Leafs that first came back. Is it Dallas or Minnesota yet or is it Dallas already? I think it might have been Dallas. Yeah, no, that was a very exciting,

first game back in Toronto was like a playoff game and our guy Dougie Gilmore sent a puck across and I was able to put the game winner in so that was probably I remember that game more than any other game before that not more than my first game everything that was remember the ovation yeah back playing in in Toronto

and yeah that was a huge huge night that was a great one I said 16 hours last night Every day this week, every day this month I can't get out my head, lost all ambitions day to day because you can call it all right. I went to the dark man and tried to give me a little medicine.

I'm like, no, and that's fine. I'm not against those methods, but new. It's me and myself and how this is going to be fixing my mind. I turned on the bracket. I turned on the music. I do on the record. I turn it on the music. Extend up there,

I don't get you sometimes losing. I've been on the days that we're wrong.