The Shintaro Higashi Show - ADCC vs. CJI

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

The BJJ world has the latest and hottest rivalry, and it’s not between two athletes but two tournaments: ADCC vs. CJI! In this episode, Shintaro and Peter conduct a comparative study of Judo’s professional circuit and BJJ’s professional circuit in light of the ADCC vs. CJI controversy. From athlete compensation to rule changes and the future of grappling sports, they cover a variety of issues involved in running a professional sport. Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Any amount helps! 10% off Judotv.com with promo code: SHINTARO Buy one get one free www.clnwash.com with promo code: SHINTARO2024

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today, we're going to talk a little bit about the CJI ADCC debacle, how that relates to the IJF, and the world of competitive sports, grappling specifically. It's going to be very good. It's going to be very interesting. Yeah, so this was a suggestion from Brian.

Thanks for the suggestion, Brian. And he wanted to know how, yeah, basically this whole ADCC versus CJI will affect the world of grappling but you know as shintaro said and as you guys know shintaro has been in the back you know he's in the back operations of the ijf tournament so yep we can kind of compare and contrast yes definitely so yeah so let's uh first start off by, you know, going over the whole debacle. Like, give us the overview. So the judo has IJF, International Judo Federation, and it's this immense thing that's controlling

all the competitions, high-level competitions internationally. It's the one and only. They're very powerful. They're very strong. They're very organized. And then because of those guys, we have thelympics judo in the olympics right so now all of a sudden every four years you have the olympic games and now judo is a tier two sport right so it used to be like tier four which is like an experimental sport tier three you're still on the chopping block now you're a tier two sport

you're solidified you have like sort of tenure right in the olympic games so judo is doing really well going climbing up the rankings little by little and right in the olympic games so judo is doing really well going climbing up the rankings little by little and you know the olympics a huge deal four-year everyone knows what it is right there's this huge like emotion invoking so there's a guy there's a unified front basically one single like uh actually everything all the major competitions are run by the IGF. For judo, yeah. Yeah, the World Tour.

Yeah, one organization. Grand Prix. The World Tour, the Grand Prix, World Championships, and all the way to the Olympics. Yes, yeah. Well, so the Olympics is like,

you know, IOC and all this stuff, and the IGF, they work very close, hand in hand. Yeah. But, you know, if you say Olympics,

if you're an Olympian, it just means something. There's branding behind it there's hundreds of years behind this thing and it's just like it's the thing

you know what I mean so Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has the IBJJF okay definitely not the equivalent of the IJF but it's their version

the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys version of the IJF much smaller right much newer not as organized, all this thing. I don't want to go into too much of that. But ADCC comes along and goes, you know what?

We're not going to do any gi. It's going to be no-gi only, submission grappling. And they want it to be the Olympics. And everyone says it. ADCC is the Olympics of jiu-jitsu. They say that. I heard that when I was going to the BJJ gym. Yeah, and it makes me a little bit upset.

You know, it's not even close. It's not even close, I think, truthfully. Is it a very difficult tournament to win? Absolutely, without a doubt. Is it true that some of these qualifier events have 256 people in a bracket? Yes, it does. But anyone can sign up for that qualifying tournament.

Oh, you don't have to go through. Oh, can you give us the rundown of how you can even get it on judo side? So me and you can sign up for East Coast trials or West Coast trials in the United States. Just to walk up. And we can also go to the Asian trials, too, because we're from Asia. I mean, I'm a Japanese citizen, too, right right? So like, I don't know if you're a Korean citizen. You are, right? Oh, I'm not anymore.

So you can't go to Asian trials. You still have Japanese citizenship? I think so, yeah. I have a passport. Oh, nice. This is one of those guys, right? Yeah. So you go to the East Coast trials. There's 256 people in your bracket. I won like seven, eight in a row. But you win it. Now you get to go to the ADCC.

Oh, that's all they require. Do other countries have that? I mean, European trials. Oh, they do have that. Okay. All that stuff. So it's like a continental trials kind of. But they market themselves like, oh my God, there's 256 person in the bracket. Are they all equally like savages that are very competitive? No, anyone can sign up and go. Right, right, right, right. You know what I mean?

If you look at wrestling, there's division one, division two, division three. You have to wrestle and then go to conferences and qualify for that. And then you go to the go to nationals. And then there's a whole process, right? Judo too. It's like you have to be on the national team before you can make it to the international level. You have to be placing in these things, that thing, and there's just more of a population doing it globally.

So I'm not trying to put down ADCC, but they've been at the forefront of like, hey, this is the Olympics for jiu-jitsu. And they've been operating like that for the last 10 years and they've built themselves up to be this massive thing. And then flow grappling, all this stuff,

like they pay licensing guys. I heard they pay $86 million to broadcast it. Oh, wow. Wait, they, oh, okay. So now Craig Jones comes along who's been a long time competitor. It's like, it's not fair

that the athletes aren't getting their fair share. There's no money for athletes fair that the athletes aren't getting their fair share. There's no money for athletes. All the athletes are poor. They're broke. Even like ADCC used to pay or still pay athletes. Very little. But now Craig Jones is like, all right, it's $10,001 to show.

$10,001? It would be more than ADCC, right? Oh, because ADCC paid $10,001 to show. $10,001? It would be more than ADCC, right? Oh, because ADCC paid $10,000? I forgot if it was to the winner or what. But it was like $10,001. $10,001 just to show up. Just to show up. You got the way. Oh, wow.

And the winner gets a million dollars. Oh, okay. And he did it on the same day as ADCC. And he's not going to broadcast it on like a paywall, pay-per-view, anything. He's going to do it on YouTube, right? Yeah. So it's a pretty cool deal for a lot of these guys. And all these guys who wanted to go to the ADCC, that's a lifelong dream.

They've been pursuing this thing. It's the Olympics of Jiu-Jitsu. Now all of a sudden, like, why would I even go do this thing? More people will probably watch CJI. There's the Olympics of Jiu-Jitsu. Now all of a sudden, like, why would I even go do this thing? More people will probably watch CJI. Right. There's more money in it. And then,

you know, right? So that's the whole idea. I mean, it makes sense because, I mean, you can't really blame

these professional athletes from taking the pay because their career is very short. Very short. Very short. So you have to make as much money as you can and then you kind of pay because their career is very short very short very short so you have to make as much money

as you can and then you kind of have to live off of that it's not like you're on the PGA Tour like you're playing golf or something you're already making

10 million dollars and Saudi guys offer you 80 million dollars it's not like that at all yeah oh because you know about the

PGA Tour versus Live Tournament yes I do yeah oh nice same thing you're a sportsman not really not really I've only read the headlines You know about the PGA Tour versus Liv tournament? Yes, I do. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, nice. You're a sportsman. Not really. Not really.

I've only read the headlines. I haven't even read the articles. But even those people who get paid a lot on the PGA Tour, they don't get salary, by the way. It's all the winnings. But then Liv came along and said, hey, we're going to pay you a salary. That's right.

That was the thing. Yeah. So now. So a lot of people took right. That was the thing. Yeah. So now. So a lot of people took it. A lot of people took it. So now this is the new version of that, except you get $10,000 to show, which is more than, right? Most. ADCC, yeah.

99% of jiu-jitsu tournaments out there and grappling tournaments out there. So people are opting to do this instead. Right, right. But then, okay, so this is the whole thing. to do this instead. Right, right. But then, okay, so there's, this is the whole thing. It was about the,

like the payment towards the athlete. How does that work in judo? Like a judo Olympics is supposed to be like an amateur sport, you know? Yeah, so even like,

I was just at the World Championships in judo and then the IJF pays for the winner. I think it was $25,000 or something like this, US dollars. So Tamak Nogoki, the kid that won Worlds, made $25,000 for actually winning it. But this is on top.

Oh, there's a prize money. There's a prize money. But it's on top of the salary that his corporation's already paying him. Right. Or like the national governing bodies will pay. And there's no entry fee. There's none of that.

All the hotels, accommodations, food costs, stipends, they're all taken care of by the All Japan Judo Federation, the AJIF. Right, right, right. And then AJIF gives money too. And then for the world championship, someone recently told me that Goki, for the world at the company that he works for,

the bonus to win it is $100,000. Oh, the company that he works for, the bonus to win it is 100 grand. Oh, the company. For those who don't know, in Japan, after college, these professional judo players would basically be hired by companies that have teams, right? Regular corporations, whether it's trading companies, car companies,'s trading companies, car companies, you know, parking lot companies. Park24 is like

an owner of all the different, it's like Icon in the United States. They own a bunch of parking garages. You can work on the corporate side, or you could have a job, you know, valeting cars, right? Or you could be a professional judoka and just do judo full-time.

Korea has a similar system and then the biggest a professional judoka and just do judo full-time. Korea has a similar system where the biggest company that sponsors judo players are the horse racing association. Yes, Japan too. Oh, really? Yeah, this is the gambling ring. Yeah, I know. We probably shouldn't go into that.

Maybe there's some gang. Yeah, we're pissing people off. Different association. we can probably should go into that. Maybe there's some gang. Yeah. We're going to piss some people off. But so, yeah. So now all of a sudden, you know, it's not just like,

for instance, like Russia. Now we call them independent neutral athletes. Right. Back when those guys were really competing and stuff like that, like the IJF will give the prize money. They're already on salary and then they get a bonus for winning. Sometimes the prize is humongous.

You know, sometimes I heard like Mongolian guy won the Olympics, got a million dollars, you know? So the government gave him that. Like they get an apartment or something. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Naidan, he, you know.

He's a president now. No, Naidan's in jail. He's imprisoned. Oh, definitely. Yeah. First of all, he won the Olympic gold and he became A national hero

Millions of dollars They gave him houses Cars Horses Everything He's living like a king Right And then he popped

On the drug test And then they took everything Oh man And then he made his way back After suspension And started winning again And then Just a couple years ago

He got drunk and beat up his friend got in a fist fight with his friend and then he punched him he went down slammed him and then the guy died so now oh my god that's why yeah it's very yeah that's why guys don't you don't get into fights on this on the mythical streets exactly right to walk away yeah you can never know what will happen. But then if you look at a guy like Teddy Renner, you know,

he's worth hundreds of millions of dollars in France, you know? He's like a movie star, TV star. You look at Dennis van der Gies who was a world bronze medalist, Olympic bronze medalist

back in the day who I commentated with. That guy's a movie star now or a TV host. He's like a celebrity in the Netherlands, you know? So there's paths to this stuff.

And they've got that. And Tedder Inera, I mean, he's a very big athlete in France, so he gets all the sponsorship deals from brands and commercials. And let me be very clear that there is none of these paths available to American judoka. Zero. Not really a popular sport here. paths available to American judoka. Zero. Zero. Not really a popular sport here.

But if you're international judo, there are ways to get paid handsomely at the end of your career. But the percentage of people who actually get that kind of money is very, very low. Like the big, big money, right? Yeah.

It's like ballet. You know, ABT dancer. You have Misty Copeland, who was the first black ballerina, principal dancer, right? She's black. And then she became the principal dancer and then Nike gave her a deal. I think it was Under Armour or something. Millions of dollars. She's dancing

next to her peers in the corps de ballet and those guys are getting paid $30,000 a year. You know what I mean? So there are all these outliers. But judoo international judo majority of the guys who are national team members who are on the IGF tour

are all professionals whether they're from Italy and they're firefighter in Italy by name but they don't actually fight fires they just do sports right maybe you're from Korea and you're in the military but you don't have to do any military service you You just do judo, but then they give you a full-time salary for this, right? Japan, same thing. You have guys from Slovenia and wherever, Germany, Brazil,

all these different places. You're a professional athlete with a full-blown salary, right? So I think overall, if you look at the average of every single player that's out there on that tour, international judo is doing a phenomenal job. And yes, people are like, oh, you only got 30 grand from the IGF when you win the world championships? Yes, but every single one of their world tour events gives the prize

money on top of the federation that gives them the money, on top of the companies that sponsor them giving them bonuses too. So they're living pretty good, these guys. Yeah. You know? Yeah,

and then they can focus on being a judoka. they don't have to make instructionals, do privates, teach kids classes. They don't have to do any of that stuff.

That's why when you pull up like a young champion or something like that from a country, he's number three in their country. Now all of a sudden he's on the world tour.

He's got like 500 followers because he doesn't care he doesn't need to like yeah then brand and sell it you know instructional whatnot you know he doesn't have to do something it's another reason there's a i mean that's another reason why there are very few judo instructional videos yeah yeah there's a language barrier and the guys who at at the top don't want to do it. Why would they want to do that? They don't need to. So my question is, how did judo get there? And then we'll switch gears into BJJ and how the current situation is.

But I wonder, like all these other countries where judo is popular, like how did this become? I mean, I'm sure it's like a decades of work decades of decades work many many factors i think one of the biggest pieces is the igf pushing a good product first and foremost right and then yeah nationalism really for every country you know if you're from italy yeah the olympics the prestige of being a gold medalist in the olympics like brazil okay they say like judo is immensely popular in Brazil. How many Olympic medals is Brazil winning? What are they winning in, you know? Yeah, they're good at soccer. What else are they good at? Yachting, right?

Boating, whatever it is. And then Judo is right after that, you know? So it's like, in order to be an Olympian, in order to be like a super high-level professional, whatever it is, like, you know, they're not trying to get to the NBA. You know, it's not a popular sport over there. So when they see the national heroes of the Flavio, like, you know, they're not trying to get to the NBA. You know, it's not a popular sport over there. So when they see the national heroes of the Flavio Cantos, you know, going to the Olympics

and making a great living for themselves, people do Judo, like Naidan, you know, with Mongolia. All of a sudden, Mongolian folk style wrestling is great. You're really good at it. You become an Olympic level Jidoka. You're set for life, you know? So now all these kids are going to really good at it. You become an Olympic level Jidoka. You're set for life. You know? So now all these kids are going to want to do it. So I think

that and then the nationalism behind it. Right? The country. Like now look at Georgia. How many people are in Georgia? I think it's a country of 3 million people. But they produce so many champions. And the entire country knows what Judo is. They love

Judo. They watch J judo it's the biggest viewership on judo tv yeah by far and think about this that's on the other side of those mountains the caucasus mountains there's dagestan which is a region in russia right and those guys produce all these mma fighters and all those guys get judo over there so he's there's video clips of khabib like oh man judo is this judo is class judo is amazing judo because those guys respect judo because they see it on the world stage they see the professionalism of it they see like how respectful everyone is and then they just see this like unbelievable thing you know and i think it takes money i think it takes nationalism i think it takes a lot of

factors you know and there's this underlying respectfulness between everybody. We're all on the same page. We're all in this together. There's 50 million people doing judo worldwide. And everyone's essentially buying into this one thing of like, all right, guys, we got to get better through sports, through all the political bullshit. And now, you know, there's some countries that don't like some countries. And if you don't bow or if you don't like some countries and if you don't bow or if you don't

participate against certain countries I think the Israeli player and then I forget which country but I didn't say Israel

but you did just for the record no there was a there was an incident where yeah they didn't want to

fight the Israeli player there's zero tolerance policy for this stuff and yes it's a combat sport but they don't allow anyone to sort of step out of line and be disrespectful or anything like that because they have a zero tolerance policy. So even like the athletes, they feel like they got screwed over by the ref or whatever it is, or they feel like, oh, they've been slighted. If they make a big scene, they're suspended. They're out.

Yeah. You know? a big scene they're suspended they're out yeah you know so I think so just to summarize the judo been around for a long time and then they really try to make this into

a very clean product with a broad appeal yes that's right where it can be integrated into the school system

and the culture aspect all the respect and then that because they have a broad base, like a consumer base, you can afford to pay these high-level professionals. A lot of the organizations, the national organizations,

the industry, the private organizations, they are willing to pay this money because it's a good product to promote. So there's judo. And then it takes decades of work. It doesn't happen overnight. You need a unified vision. And you need an advisor and then a Vlad and then an Igor,

all these guys who are sort of at the executive level that all live in Budapest, trying to push judo forward together. And they've been with the company for decades, these guys. And they're all trying to push Judo forward together. And they've been with the company for decades, these guys. And they're all trying to push Judo forward. And all of that leadership comes down, right? To all the people. And you have a mass buy-in of like, we all love Judo. We all want to push it forward.

We understand that if we're cursing and doing certain things that aren't good for the sport, you know, like we're going to be out. Right? So we all have to be. Yeah. And that's what you need really you know yeah so then now let's switch gears to bjj and uh so bjj is a much younger sport uh and you know it's only been like early 2000s that when it started really becoming popular in America, you know.

So it doesn't have the base yet, right? Well, not as big as judo. And I guess there's no national governing body that will pay out these professional athletes, right? So do you think it's just the early stage and then it'll like maybe in the future adcc or cji will like people will like just solidify into one like you know kind of like be attracted to one or the other and then maybe that will become the olympics or it's just maybe it's just a little harder because it's,

it is not the Olympics, you know? Yeah. So what, what, what do you think what's going to happen here? I mean, I think IBJJ was doing sort of a good job pushing Jiu Jitsu forward and stuff

like that. And then the usage of like having blue belt world champions and all this stuff, and then allowing all these much more inclusive in a way where it's like, you can be a world champion. It can be a blue belt, you know? And then you call yourself a world champion.

All this stuff is great, right? And then more and more people are doing it. But compared to Judo, like most of the Jiu-Jitsu guys are here. United States, Brazil, right? Those are the majority of the concentration here. Judo is truly global. You know, like I said this the other day, like 70,000 people in Iran are registered to do Judo.

70,000. Oh. You know, way more in wrestling are registered to do Judo. 70,000. Oh. Way more in wrestling because Iran's a wrestling country. You know? Even you look at Bulgaria, lots of Judo over there. Poland, Germany, all these different places. You know what I mean? Right, right.

So it doesn't have that global thing yet, I think, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And a lot of this stuff is driven sort of in a capitalistic way where profit is sort of at the end goal of a lot of this stuff. Of course, don't get me wrong, Judo money matters too. You know? A lot of this stuff is driven sort of in a capitalistic way where profit is sort of at the end goal of a lot of this stuff. Of course, don't get me wrong. Judo, money matters too, you know? Yeah. That's what we've been talking about.

Like you need money. You absolutely need money. To run these things. But there's a difference between like having a massive nonprofit, you know, international sports thing where there is money in it versus like for profit. Like a couple of people are profiting from the major organizations and this and that and then so now everyone's popping up and then having their own little thing and now now it's even more fragmented you know how many like productions in jiu-jitsu came and went already you know these who's number one is a thing that's gone right before that was kasai

ebi was a thing you know adcc was always kind of there in the background. Now it's gaining the most, like that was at the top. You know what I mean? So it became this thing where like these two organizations sort of started monopolizing it, IBJJF and ADCC. Of course, they're not at the, quite at the level of IJF yet, but they were on the way there, sort of, you know what I mean? And now CJF, IPUPS up and then, then you know in an instant adcc like why you know people like why would i compete in adcc now you know it's a million dollars over there and all

of a sudden you know you're an adcc champ but 60 of the division didn't show because they're cji that's really really bad how can you call that the olympics of jujitsu now you can't right when the. When the best people are not even there. So the damage has already been done in that way, right? If it's the Olympics of Jiu-Jitsu and now half the guys are already defected, dude, they have a little bit of work to do here.

You know, maybe they can kind of consolidate and be like, all right, CJ, you know, like, let's just combine forces and do this thing. We will pay that money. Let's put all our money together and be the biggest prize money grappling event in the history of all. Could that happen? Maybe, but you have two very strong personalities leading

either side, and will they work together for the better good of grappling? I don't know. I really don't know. And we're forgetting the IBJJF. I don't know what they will do. I'll tell you, man, the IBJJF World I don't know what they will do. I'll tell you, man. The IBJJF championship, the world championship just happened last week.

Did you know that? Okay. I did see some videos. It felt it was like muted. Not a lot of people paid attention to it. You know what I mean? Because they do Gi, right? They have a no Gi one too. Oh, there's no Gi? Okay. And I don't want to say... because they they do Gi right is it because the Gi championship

they have a no Gi one too oh there's they have a no Gi okay and I don't want to say they don't market for

do they the world championship IBJF world championship does it not draw a lot of these best athletes a lot of guys didn't compete in it

Fion didn't compete in it Gabriel Sousa didn't compete in it JT didn't compete in it you know all these guys who are historical champions, now they get to a certain level. They win a GEE championships or IBJJF, and they just do fight promotions

because it pays well. There's more eyeballs on it. And then the more eyeballs on it means more followers on Instagram. And the more followers on Instagram means you could sell more instructionals and seminars because they're looking at the path to monetizing

their likeness and their branding. So IBJJF tournaments are like the stepping stone. Like when you're like just coming out. As of now, yeah, that's how it kind of feels like.

You know what I mean? Like Mikey Musumetri didn't compete in it. You know, now he's that one fight champion, one FC over there with Chachri.

Remember him? He did a podcast. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How cool is that? When he came out, I'm like, oh my God, there with Chachri. Remember him? He did a podcast. How cool is that? When he came out, I'm like, oh my god, there's Chachri down there? That was pretty crazy. Yeah. I feel like they were on the right path maybe two or three years ago.

When there was a little bit more meaning behind the IBJJF, and all of a sudden these guys like Marigali, who are like megastars in the sport are like, why am I paying $150 on the entry fee to compete in this stupid thing? Oh, you have to pay

money to compete? That much money? There's an entry fee. Oh, I didn't know that. Even the black belt champions were paying entry fees. I see. I had no idea.

And they're paying their own way. Like, you know what i mean like think how ridiculous that is you know yeah and it's very easy to be like what is the ijf paid to the world championships yes just that one dollar amount because they want to hear oh they made 10 million dollars or something or you know you get used to it by boxing. Mayweather just made $20 million off this one fight, whatever it is, right? But Judo's not like that.

Grappling's not like that. It's a series of tournaments every year and the ultimate goal is the Olympics or the freaking title. In order to get that, you got to go do all the tournaments, get good seating, climb the world ranking list, all this stuff. So you can't just have one tournament that just pays.

People always ask, oh, you went, like, for instance, when I competed in, like, I don't know,

Miami World Cup back in the day, I took third. And they're like, what'd you get for it? I was like, nothing. There's no money

for the World Cup. You know what I mean? World Cup, yeah. In fact, I, you know, like,

lost money going to this stupid thing. Right, right. You had to, you know what I mean? Get accommodation. I mean you know, like lost money going to this stupid thing. Right, right. You have to. You know what I mean? Get accommodation. Yeah, I mean, accommodation.

I was sponsored by the athletic club, thank God. Yeah, yeah. You know, and there's different avenues to get private corporate sponsorships, but it's a personal hustle that you have to do. Right, right, right. So people focus on that dollar amount too much, you know, because they hear Nike gave this person a $30 million deal. Misty Copeland got a $20 million deal with whatever it is. And there are no equivalent of that in grappling yet, really. You know, even like Higashi Brand, which is the sponsor of this show, is my brand.

There's no money in the account for me to be able to pay any dollars because my company right now is losing money. Right. You're just starting out. I bought all this inventory. Most of it has not moved. It's sitting over there behind me right there. There's a huge pile of clothes that's just sitting there. Has not been converted into money at all.

It's losing. So, all right, I'm going to pay somebody $1,000 to wear my product. Right. I'm already in the hole like six, seven grand just sitting on that inventory over there. You know what I mean? It's ridiculous. So, please, guys, go to www.higashibrand.com. Support our grapplers.

Yeah, support me, really. And then maybe one day I'll give back. But we have other sponsors as well, right, Peter? Right. That's right. So we are sponsored by Jason, Levon, and Joe. Thank you, guys. Shout out.

Thank you. Always. And then you got a special code for the IJF. judotv.com. Discount code Chintaro. Yeah. Thank you very much, guys. And we havecom discount code Shintaro yeah thank you very much guys and we have

we have a discount code for CLN do you know that special episode we did about the skin care oh we got that nice yeah

yeah I believe it's Shintaro we'll leave it in the show perfect excellent yeah so yeah please support us

so back at it I think the one thing that was out of all the competition things ADCC is the Olympics of BJJ you know in an instant it's gone so the damage already has been done but you know

that's what disruptors do disruptors come in disrupt the social the norm and then you know throw everything into sort of a chaos and now all of a sudden CJI might be

the next big thing and hopefully it's sustainable and hopefully he's able to do it year after year. Athletes get compensated and if someone says,

yo, I can make a million dollars doing this, more people will stick around and do it, you know? But I think they need to do first and foremost away with a lot of these rules. They need to solidify the rules

and that's one of theJF things that I saw. Oh, the rule set. For instance, wrestling. If you back up and not shoot, 10 seconds, you get a stolen. Right? Judo. You don't grip and you back out and you disengage.

Penalty. Jiu-Jitsu, you can sit in closed guard for 7 minutes. I watched Mika Galvao's match. They were in closed guard for 7 minutes I watched Mika Galvao's match they were in closed guard for 7 minutes 7 minutes how long

are these matches I think that's way too long way too long way too long I mean that's the thing with you know

people it's one of the most popular topics right like the IJF rule changes and all. But as,

as we mentioned, like Shintaro said in the back, you know, how it works in the, in the background, like it's a, it's a whole operation. There's a reason why

they tweak things here and there. It just, they always go back because the rule sets are a unified rule set that promotes viewership is so important

to the sport you know you get in lasso spider and you just sit there dude you could hold that shit forever 10 seconds you're not doing anything with it penalize them stall installing you're done yeah get out of here and and one interesting i noticed is that even in no gig grappling yeah like they're making though i think they're making a lot of rules correct me if I'm wrong to discourage guard pulling and just like encourage more wrestling on top. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a reason that IJF has been doing it for a long time.

I mean, I think it needs to be refined a little by little. And ADCC was at the forefront of that. And it's much more difficult to score points. And they wanted people to submit. So in the first five minutes, you can't score points. Right? So you could sit guard

all this stuff. And then later on, like you've given up a back to not let the takedown points happen and all this stuff. And these are good ideas, you know, but they need to be refined

throughout the course of the years. But you know, when you're doing the trials and then you're out of bounds and then they just let them go sometimes arbitrarily, that's not good for the sport. People are rolling around

in rice and beans with their face in the ground, you know, on the concrete., that's not good for the sport. People are rolling around in rice and beans with their face in the ground, you know, on the concrete. Like, that's not good for the sport at all. That's short-term viewership. That's short-term gains on Instagram. Are we talking about this? Like, that's not good for the sport. Like, from a long-term?

Long-term. Yeah. You know? Yeah, you got to think long-term. Like, again, judo has got here after decades of work. You could even say like centuries of work, honestly. You know, because judo became a sport like through Kato like in the 1800s. And then, you know, a lot of people have come and gone to refine this.

The rule set, the tournament format, how to run it and all. It takes time. And I'm not saying, yeah, like right now BJJ, the BJJ competition world seems very much in flux, but I think that's just a natural thing because it's such a young sport. And you know what? I hope they make it. You know, I would love to see more sort of like a overall grappling umbrella.

Right. And then, you know, people it's happening already. Jiu Jitsu guys are doing wrestling, you know, wrestling guys are doing Judo. And like,

I see Columbia wrestlers coming into Judo now, you know, division one wrestlers saying, I want to learn Judo because they have great footsies. They have great Uchimadas. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot more of a sort of an open space now in the field. And, you know, United World Wrestling is also somewhat struggling compared to what IJF has done. And since Judo is the gold standard now in terms of, like, international infrastructure in the grappling world, you know, wrestling and Jiu-jitsu should start emulating some of the stuff that they do. You know what I mean? Yeah. And is this Craig Jones Invitational the beginning of that? Maybe. I don't really know.

It's hard to tell right now. It's hard to tell. It hasn't even happened yet. But I do think it's great that the athletes have an opportunity to make this kind of money early on in their careers. It's such a new sport. And people like hearing that. It's a million dollars to win it. So there's going to be under 80

kilograms and above 80 kilograms. So there's going to be two millionaires crowned at this thing. Obviously, it's not really a millionaire because you get taxed and all this stuff. But in theory, you could go enter this thing and you're a millionaire because you get taxed and all this stuff, right? But like, you know, in theory, right? You could go enter this thing, you're a millionaire. It's great money.

And, oh, it's only two-way classes, huh? Two-way classes, that's it. ADL, yeah. So now there's eyes on it. People are talking about it. Look, we're talking about it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And they did what they said they had to do. Just to completely, you know, what is ADCC? The Olympics of Brazilian jiu-jitsu not anymore not even close now it's pretty crazy instant yeah like less than a freaking week when this thing happened dude yeah now it's like adcc what you know i guess you can kind of say that um it wasn't adcc wasn't you could argue that ADCC wasn't as sustainable. Yeah.

And then this one competitor that's just like, oh, we're going to pay more. And then instant, the prestige is gone, I guess. It can't be just money. And money is very important. But, you know, you've got to build up this culture of significance, I guess. I think, yeah. Like the Olympics. You know, money've got to build up this culture of significance, I guess. I think, yeah. Like the Olympics. You know, money is important, man.

Once you have that sort of platform to be able to do it, you have to start relentlessly monetizing it. And, you know, it can't be just one thing, you know, where you have one licensing thing and that's it. You got to have corporate sponsors, you know, and it's the job of the CEO to do that. The job of the CEO of that company to go out and find money, network with the people, be in the rooms at the New York athletic club and say,

Hey guys, this is what I do. This is my company. Do you want a part of this day? We get this many viewers and that's what all the IGF guys are doing. Visors in these rooms, right? With oil conglomerates and the head of those companies and saying,

Hey, IGF, would you like to put your company's name on the side of her mats? Right. And they had gas problems. So car, companies and saying, hey, IGF, would you like to put your company's name on the side of her mats? Right? And they had gas problems, so-called. Mostly Russian oil and gas money, which they cannot take anymore because of the sanctions, right? But, you know, like, you know what I mean?

Like, that's what you need. Not Russian money, I'm just saying, but like just corporate money. Yeah. You know? what you need not not russian money i mean like just corporate corporate money yeah you know it it's yeah of course you have to you know fundraising is important and then at the same time you can't just go around just because you go around the middle of this people doesn't mean they're going to give you money you have to have your product like solid product and all these rule changes that the IJF is making and all this like marketing that's the whole product that will aid in fundraising which will get help fund the athletes and all the infrastructure and and these things take time to build and I

think again BJJ is a young sport and we'll see how this whole CJI versus ADCC thing will go but you know they need the money to build the infrastructure and to fund back and then like to build a better product I mean it's just like how any company works right? Dude I just got an email

about the IJF World Veterans Championships or the World Masters Championships for people above 30, right? Yeah. And the email was like, USA Judo isn't running this thing. We are a local organizer helping run this thing. But you can't just go to this hotel and book it on your own. You have to book it through the USA Judo who books it with the IJF.

And there's a margin to be made at every level. You know what I mean? So like even jujitsu should have that. Right. And then yes, the athletes are paying more, but it's not the athletes themselves that are funding this stuff. Maybe if you're from the U S or like Costa Rica or something, but if you have the federation money coming in and then your local federation has the money too, like the money doesn't come out of the athletes pockets, but the money always gets filtered to the top of the IJF,

which kind of sort of trickles down little by little. And, you know, whether it's like more photographers, more videographers, a better user interface on judotv.com, whatever it is, you know what I mean? So IBJJF should make it so, or even ADCC, that if you're competing, whatever local sponsors that you may have, those guys have to book the rooms through ADCC. So now ADCC, that if you're competing, whatever local sponsors that you may have, those guys have to book the rooms through ADCC.

So now ADCC has more money and then they can use that money to pay back to the athletes, et cetera, et cetera. Right, right, right. If you're wearing a rash guard already and you have your local gym or whatever it is, like those gyms, you know, maybe not those gyms because I'm a gym owner. Okay. Maybe they have to pay ADCC.

You know what I mean? There's spaces on the side of the mats, etc., etc. All these different things they could sort of monetize. And yes, it's like, oh, you want to make it into NASCAR or this corporate thing. But if there's more money in it, they could use it to create a better product, which brings more eyeballs to the sport.

And it's like this positive feedback this positive feedback loop, you know, that builds on itself. That's what you need. You know, you just can't have one or two guys at the top making all the money and not reinvesting it into the thing. You know, so that's why you need good leaders also. You know, Visor was already a casino guy. He owned a bunch of casinos.

He's doing pretty good. He doesn't need the IGF to make money and make himself rich. A lot of these guys, they do it as a business, running these organizations, fight promotions to make money. And that's good because competition in capitalism is how capitalism works, but

there's a little bit of a conflict there. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the IGF is non-profit, right? I mean, so all the margins get reinvested into it. You don't have to pay out

the shareholders. I think so. I mean, many ways to go about it. It's just like corporate structure. I'm not an expert. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know about

that side of the thing. I'm only, you know, I'm at the surface level over there in the back end. So I don't really know the deep workings, but you know i'm at the surface level over there in the back end so i don't really know the the deep workings but you know what i mean yeah so i think so all in all i will wrap up but i think

again the adcc versus cji all in all i think it's uh it's not out of the ordinary or anything i think it might be good we don't know it's too early to tell but we can see why these things are happening i don't think anyone's trying to like there's no grand conspiracy where they're trying to like do something it's it's all people are making rational decisions athletes craig jones you know ibjjf ADTC. And hopefully this will be good for the sport. Hope so. You know, we want grappling as a whole to grow. Yes, absolutely. We definitely do, man.

Yeah. And it'd be great, you know. And then, again, these take time. And judo didn't come to this play with this prestige as a number one grappling sport in the world. It didn't happen overnight. It took centuries and centuries of work. So it's an interesting time for BJJ. And we're excited to see it.

And I think jiu-jitsu is positioned nicely because some of the best markets in the world, judo is almost non-existent, like the United States. They say 50 million strong in judo, but the people in Dagestan aren't really buying $300 gis. You know, the people, right? You know, Dushanbe, Tajikistan aren't really buying, you know, spending $500 on gear.

But in jiu-jitsu, you have their core population in the United States. And the average age is 35 years old, disposable income. Those guys are going to spend, right? So they're positioned nicely. And if they could really kind of get the right people in place and get unified vision and the buy-in from all these people, I think they could really blow it out of the water. You know, and I think there's enough business for everybody.

There's grappling for everybody, you know? And I think we could join and grow concurrently. You know, that's what we want, really. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. I think that's about it for this topic.

Anything else you want to add at the end? Guys, check out higashibrand.com. Really cool merch. Yeah. I'm grinding, busting my butt, you know,com really cool merch haha yeah I'm grinding busting my butt you know putting this stuff out there

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yeah anyway that's it that's it yeah guys personal uh I'm not

non-biased review as non-bi much as I can. I bought his shirt and it's great. I wear it to, again, it's not just to, I don't wear it just to judo or anything. I wear it to golf, walk around, go to the gym. It's a lifestyle brand. One of our friends, Christian, bought one and he wore it to golf when I did a you know

played nine holes with him in the morning. Looks great. Thanks Peter. Yeah. Maybe you may you should you should go into

the golf population. There's a lot of money there. GG Grappler golf. Anyway. All right. Yeah. Thank you guys.

All right. Thanks guys and we'll see you guys in the next episode.