The Shintaro Higashi Show - An Interview with Dr. Rhadi Ferguson

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

In this episode, Shintaro sits down with legendary Dr. Rhadi Ferguson to talk about his journey through the world of Judo, BJJ, wrestling, Olympics and MMA. Dr. Ferguson shares his approach to coaching, and how his experiences as an athlete and coach have informed his perspective on success, both on and off the mat. Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today we have a very special guest, but before I say who it is, I'm sure you already see him on the screen. But thank you to our sponsors, Judo TV, LeBron, not LeBron, LeVon, David. Thank you very much for your support. Yes, without delaying this any further, Roddy Ferguson, thank you for being here. Huge pleasure. I said, man, if you got LeBron, if you got LeBron's costume, I need to be back more often.

Yeah, LeBron, LeBron, not LeBron. That'd be cool, right? Yeah. Man, for those of you who don't know, Roddy is a two-time Olympian, and he was the OG first BJJ judo double black belt in the United States that I personally know of. And as I was entering into the judo space in the competitive scene, Roddy's 10 years older than me, so he was already really established.

So this is somebody that I looked up to. He was a personal hero of mine in the U.S. judo circuit. Thank you so much for being here, man. Well, thank you, man. But just to clarify, because I always want to give respect where respect is due, Tamak Johnson Ono was the first dude who was a judo black belt and an Olympian who's also a BJJ black belt. And then after him, there's me, and then there is, I think there's another dude in the Philippines, and then there's Travis Stevens.

There's not a lot of us who are BJJ black belts who are also Olympians and judo black belts as well. Nice, nice. So what was that like entering the scene in the beginning? There's a couple things I remember. When I met you at some kind of training you told me about an omoplata sweep that was kind of like useful for judo from close guard. I remember that. And then I remember you

launching dudes in the ADCC back in the day when ADCC was sort of newer, right? Well, I'll tell you, I had one of my coaches, man, was one of the pioneers in terms of coaching education for the BJJ and judo fusion. At that time, it was Lord Irvin. I got my one from white belt to brown belt under Lord Irvin, and I got my black belt and all my degrees under Ricardo Laborio because I moved from maryland um in the dc area into um into buckertown florida after the olympics so nice i lord really like he came to the olympic training center he studied i think currently he's

he's a need on right now in judo and he just really really studied and implement some of the systems from judo inside of his dojo he's one of the people who actually went full circle on everything in terms of and what I think most Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners who really go deep into BJJ they take one or two paths either they they go full circle and bring themselves all the way back around to judo like you see Keenan has done and some other people or they take this submission wrestling path and they go into the the sambo leg locking space um but he's one of the people who really went full circle and came back around and went into the judo and really learned everything but

during that time period of the of the um I started jiu-jitsu in 1998 so I'm a fourth degree and I get my fifth degree this year. Man, it was, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was like the wild, wild west, man. There was a lot of cheating going on, man. I remember I lost the, I lost the Pan American, I lost the Pan American championships in the finals by decision, and I lost the world championships

for, in the purple belt division also by decision. Oh man, I didn't know that you went to the worlds in Jiu Jitsu. I had no idea. I went to the Moon Shows. My claim to fame was I beat Rafael Lovato when he was coming up, but I can't do anything with him now. I think it was Chael Son as Jiu-Jitsu coach.

We competed in the same division too. I was doing Judo at that time. I was really in good shape. Not to bounce all over the place, but there's just absolutely zero comparison to the shape that a high-level judo player's in compared to a high-level jiu-jitsu player. I mean, I've looked at the data.

I've seen the VO2 max studies. I've seen the strength studies. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's cool. Which are available on Google Scholar. You can look them up. which are available on Google Scholar you can look them up the only comparison

for the strength of a high level judo athlete is a freestyle wrestler and a Greco-Roman wrestler Greco they actually have a little bit more strength in the trunk area than some of the judo players

but the judoka are way more explosive than the freestyle wrestlers oh wow that's interesting yeah just because of the just because of most of the throwing so for those of you guys are listening wondering right roddy is a phd so he's a doctor right and your field of study was it kinesiology no well it was education but i okay i geared it more to the what you would call the psychomotor domain. So my dissertation was on how to improve performance in the NFL 225-pound bench press to failure test by training in a stabilization-limited training environment. So I've taught kinesiology and exercise science at the University of Central Florida and the University of Tampa.

And I also taught nutrition at the University of Tampa, and I currently teach four sections of elementary judo at Howard University. Oh, that's a cool one. That's amazing. Yeah, wow. That was my next question. Are you a professor? Yes, of course. Inside and outside of the dojo. Yeah, because the dojo professor, that's the whole thing, right? Yes, it is. It's really similar. It's really similar. Unfortunately, they don't really count in academia. Like you're a teacher. You've been teaching for years.

Yes. But if you try to go get a teaching job, they'll tell you you have no educational experience. That's true. Which is crazy because you know how to coach judo in and of itself. Yes. It's a conceptual framework. It has its own canon of study. It has its own information that you have to disseminate and inculcate to other

people. And you need to know how to do that and to dole that out to different populations in terms of andragogy and pedagogy, how you train adults and how you train children and how you train geriatric populations. And you have to know all of that stuff. And some of that stuff you learn on the fly and some of that stuff you learn because you read and you study or somebody like your father taught before you. And you kind of learn it by being bathed inside of the the process of judo um the thing about that is man you you you know judo and i've even had the opportunity to watch you online and watch you teach and how you tell a story before you show the technique and they give the background of the technique and you blend it with what's

going on in judo and what's going on in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and the modern day and it's kind of cool to watch because as you said I'm kind of OG in the game it's cool to see you guys and St. Leisure and see you guys come up and make your way inside

the space thank you man that means a lot coming for me man I remember as a teenager watching you at the New York Open. I don't know if you remember going against Atu. Remember? Yes. And then you did a flash arm bar

and then he tapped like this on your leg. Remember this? And then, you know, you were like, he tapped and you stood up. No, Laurie, because Laurie said he tapped.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. And then Atu stood up and was like, right? But I think he admitted it. Then he admitted it. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And then Atu stood up and was like, no, no, no. Right? But I think he admitted it. Then he admitted it.

Yeah, then he admitted it. Then he admitted he tapped. Because, listen, Atu and I were really, really good friends. Yes, yeah. When he tapped, I let his arm go. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. It was locked in tight.

It was tight. Yeah. I will never forget that, man. And I was like, wow, that was so cool. And then, you know, so that, me as a kid in the sport, you know, teenager, like, man, I remember watching you, man. So it means a lot, you know, getting a compliment from you like that. So thank you, you know?

I appreciate it, man. I appreciate it. Let's go back to where you were training, though, with the jiu-jitsu and the judo. You were telling me about the Wild West. We have a little bit of an overlap because I do jiu-jitsu with JT now. And JT trained with Lloyd, right? JT used to beat the dog piss out of me, my man. My God.

Like bad. JT is really, really good, man. Yeah, he is, yeah. Super, super technical. And he's a super nice dude, man. Nice dude, such a nice guy. He's a nice guy. To be a killer on the mat that he is, he's just a really nice guy man i've never seen him

you know i've never seen him bully anybody on the mat i've never seen him you know punch the man when he got done you know training or be upset yeah he's just a really really nice guy and he's super technical technical guy yeah so you guys chained together at lloyd irving's back in the day yes uh we trained together sporadically um i was at so so I started jujitsu with Lloyd in 1998. And then I left and I took a job with Texas Instruments. And then I came back in 2000. From 2000 to 2002, I was home doing my master's at Howard University. So I would, you know, I would do my studies I train in the morning a lot and I would

train in the morning on a technical side I do my strength and conditioning then I come back in the afternoon and I trained again then I trained again in the evening and I have a then I have another training session sometimes at nine o'clock to 11 like the amount of training like I don't think people think I don't think people think I don't think people know how much training happens at that place like it's almost a 24

hour around the clock like training, drilling and drilling and drilling and drilling man I remember times we'd watch a UFC fight at his house and then start drilling after the fight on the floor in his house. I mean, it was just constant drilling over and over and over again. It was a pretty cool experience, man.

He's like, the things that, I don't have any level of disrespect for Danaher. for Danaher. You got to understand that the things that were going, just the things that were happening 10, 15 years ago, the internet wasn't as prominent as it is now. Yes.

Very true. People see things now and think that it's new. They see these moves in jiu-jitsu and they're like, oh, this is new stuff. That's not new stuff, man. It's just recycled judo

that's been happening. You know what I'm saying? And some of the things that Danaher has been been saying, man Lloyd's been saying those things for years yeah like he was one he was one of the premier people in the leg lock space early like when I won my Strikeforce fight man I won my Strikeforce fight by I started with a heel hook and finished with a straight knee bar yeah I had one person tell me say man I didn't know you knew leg locks I said bro I trained under Lloyd man you're not training under Lloyd man and not learning leg locks yeah so where

were you what was your judo training during that time period did you do rely on the international camps mostly or going to pedros or like how did you train judo while you were in maryland man i did all my training with lord man wow that's that's that's really interesting so how did you get started in judo in the first place? I got started in judo in the after school program, man, at Oak Grove Elementary in Miami, Florida. Nice, and you were a kid. And then after like a year,

I started training with Jack Williams at Miami Dade Community College. So I would go to Miami Dade Community College and then at the age of 12, we moved and we went to Pennsylvania. We moved to Pennsylvania. My dad bought a car dealership. And I didn't do judo. I didn't do judo from after the age of 12.

I didn't do judo anymore, man. I didn't do judo until I graduated from college in Toronto. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I didn't know that. I wrestled in ninth grade. And ninth grade wasn't high school back then. Ninth grade was junior high school, so I never wrestled in high school.

So I wrestled in ninth grade, and then I went to high school. And when I went to high school, we moved, and we moved to Maryland when I got to in the middle of my 11th grade year. Yeah. And I only played football and ran track. So then I went to Howard University on a football scholarship. And when I got to Howard, I ran track, I played football. And one day after my freshman year, going into my sophomore year,

I went down to the wrestling room. I said, I want to wrestle. And Coach Cotton, Dr. Cotton now, said, what do you want to wrestle? I said, I don't care who I wrestle. I'll be any one of these guys. So the heavyweight state champion was there that he recruited. He brought him out. I said, I'm going to throw him and pin him.

Man, we started match, lap five, boom, drop, see a Nike pin, done. Wow, love it. I love that. Hey, the next week I was wrestling. Yeah. Starting. Wow. So you wrestled for Howard. I wrestled at Howard.

So in high school, the wrestling coach wanted me to wrestle in high school. I went to Richard Montgomery High School in Maryland. He had his, I guess it was a 170 and a 190 or something like that in his heavyweight. He asked me every day to wrestle. I came downstairs. I was in jeans and a shirt. And I took my socks off. And I said, hey, man, if I beat all three of these guys,

will you stop asking me to wrestle? He said, yes. I walked on the mat, threw and pinned every one of those dudes one after the other. Put my socks and shoes on. The whole team was running behind me. Hey! I said, no, no, no.

The deal was, if I beat all these guys. So I just threw them and pinned them, man. mean it was like nothing and I wrestled in college I wrestled d1 in college nice and um I'm a three-time Hall of Famer at how University I got inducted in the Hall of Fame on a personal level for you know my Professional pursuit pursuits I got inducted with the 1996 Shooting 1993 football team we won the black college national championships and then that with the 1996, excuse me, 1993 football team, we won the Black College National Championships. And then with the 1995 wrestling team, because we won the conference championships.

So, I mean, I'll probably get inducted as a fourth time. I'll probably be the only fourth time inductee at my school because of the 1996 team won the Black College National Championships too. So I wrestled in college, man, and never wrestled in high school with a judo background that I have from the age of 6 to 12. Wow, that's incredible. But you were also a super athlete, too. Like, we all know how much of a great athlete you are, you know.

Give us some stats. Because I remember, like, talking to you as a young guy, and you were telling me, I think it was, like, at one of these tournaments, right? It was like, I was like, you know, Roddy, Roddy. I was like a teen. And I was like, how much do you bench or squat or whatever it was? It was something crazy. In my mind, I feel like you told me you bench or squat or whatever it was. It's something crazy in my mind. I feel like you told me 700 pounds.

No, I squat 625. I never went over 625. Okay. I was close. I was in my, in my, in my squatting, my, my squatting workouts used to be. My leg works right. Well, so two sets of 20, my, all my squats were asked to grass two sets of 20 or 315. And then two sets of 15 of 405 nice and

then two sets of it was either 8 to 12 jesus christ um 455 and then i i knock out some sets of threes to fives with 505 were you always strong though no um strength is a it's a learned thing i mean it's you can build strength just like you build speed man yeah you got to just sit in the weight room when i was um when i was competing uh i was only 212 pounds when i started so i i lifted i lifted six days a week yeah when i was in the training center i, I only did judo three days out of the week. So I went to practice, but I didn't really practice. Like on Tuesdays and Thursdays, Eddie's like, hey, man, go in there, do a couple rounds. We kind of lean back and chill, do some rounds with the girls.

And that's what I did. But I was only like Monday, Wednesday, and Friday were the days that I went hard because I had to lift six days a week. Wow. So it was a very lifting heavy kind of regimen while you were at the training center. I lifted super, super heavy. I was very fortunate at the time that the sport was already in line with what I was doing in football. I played fullback.

So for me to get down on a three-point stance and run full speed into a 240, 250, 260 linebacker. I mean 240 pound linebacker. That's just what I did normally. I never lined up against any of these judo dudes that had these fancy names and felt any type of fear or anything because I had played against people who were just. They were just bigger. They were just bigger than they were.

They were specimens, some of these guys. Yeah, they were specimens. Now, understand this. Once I did a deep dive into the judo world, there's absolutely no comparison. As great as some of the NFL athletes are, I could take the top three guys on the medal stand in freestyle, Greco, and Judo at the Olympics, and they'll all start on the D-line in the NFL. Period.

I can take Mijan Lopez from Cuba, the Greco heavyweight. I can take Teddy Renner. I can take any level of heavyweight freestyle wrestler. I can take the young dude out of Minnesota, and I can take any level of heavyweight freestyle wrestler. I can take the young dude out of Minnesota,

and I can put them in camp, and they're going to make their NFL roster on the D-line. 100%. Who's going to line up in front of Teddy Renner and stop him from moving forward? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody.

It's nobody. I wonder if he could bench press 225 to the standard of the combine, though. Do you think he can? Teddy Renner. You ever watch him bench press 225 to the standard of the combine, though. Do you think he can? Teddy Renner. You ever watch him bench press online? No. Bro, I think he did like 500 the other day. Damn.

Wow. It's unbelievable. Teddy Renner is a, when I was training, I did 225 30 times. That's a lot. I was training in Judo. I did 12. 12 to 15. So maybe my son will tell you what.

Last year, I went in the gym. Yeah. And just, I mean, I put it on to warm up and did 20 reps. Jeez. Wow. So you have no shoulder injuries to be able to. No, no, no, no, no. I can't put my shoulder any further past my head.

Oh, yeah. So I'm not able to go all the way down to my chest anymore. I need double shoulder replacement. But I'm not doing it right now. I've had knee injuries and shoulder injuries. The way I played judo was super violent, man. Yeah, it is. It was a very aggressive style.

Yeah, it's a very aggressive style. I had no time to learn the intricacies of Uchimata at that time. I'm a way better technician now than i was back then yeah like like way better i was the i was a grip and grind it's like it's like ground and pound in mma i was grip and grind yeah i remember that and then you would dive underneath and launch guys with the double right yeah and Yeah, and I was trying to get to the ground as soon as possible. Yeah. My job was to do the SWAT analysis, find out where the extreme delta was in terms of the technical divide between me and the other person,

and then jump into that space as soon as possible. Oh, I love that. When I'm lining up against, let's just say at the time, a Nicholas Gill, there's no way I'm going to beat Nicholas Gill in Tachiwaza. There's no way. There's no way. There's just no way. He has too many years of experience in that space.

It's just not possible. I had to get to the ground as soon as possible. My job was to, and I learned this from Leo White, there's two ways to get to the top of the medal stand at a tournament. You can win every match or you can not lose any. And that's the antithesis of how you grew up and how you learned judo. But I studied judo based on it being a system because I did engineering in college.

So to me, judo wasn't a sport. It wasn't an art. It is for me now, but at the time when I was competing, it wasn't a sport. It wasn't an art. Judo in and of itself was a system. And my job was to use game theory in order to game the system so that I could win.

Judo for me occurred in these particular domains. I had NH, which was no-handed judo. I had 1H, which was one-handed judo. I had GG, which is grip-and-go judo. And then I had two-handed judo. That's what I mean. So I never, ever, ever wanted to be in the two handed judo range ever. Yeah, I remember this because I remember watching Taraji being coached by you.

You, cuz I changed his style because he had Uchimata style and we removed Uchimata from his style. We moved the two handed judo from his style because he could win stateside with that but he wasn't gonna win internationally with that. That's right, that's right. So we changed his style, removed the two-handed judo from his style because he could win stateside with that, but he wasn't going to win internationally with that. That's right. That's right. So we changed his style. Now, the problem with that style, not the problem with the weakness of that style, that

style is super taxing on the cardiovascular system. Oh, yeah. You got to be in great shape. You got to be in great shape to run it over and over and over again because you cannot sit in the two-handed judo realm. I had absolutely zero desire to learn two-handed judo. Not only did I have zero desire to learn two-handed judo, you weren't going to the two-handed judo realm i had absolutely zero desire to learn two-handed judo not only did i have zero desire to have 200 judo you weren't going to put two hands on me that's right i remember that so the grip fighting stuff that you kind of implemented right

i remember when jimmy pedro started doing the grip fighting like a world championship i feel like you had a hand in all this too right yeah i helped i helped him develop it right yeah i remember that todd brie todd brie helped him develop a product yeah I helped to market the product so when Jimmy came to me Jimmy came to me because the product wasn't moving so we read we what I did was I you rebranded the product and then we put the product back out we ran the product pretty I remember I wrote Jimmy a check for 27.5, okay? And he told me that was the first time he ever did business with somebody in judo

where he actually made some money. And from there, he was taking up, I'm not taking any credit for Jimmy's, you know, off the mat judo career. What I'm saying is that was a good opportunity for me to work with him because he had a name in the space. And I also taught grip fighting to make some good money, make

some quality connections. And also jump into that space big time because until then, judo products weren't really moving like that outside of the books that were being sold by fighting films. That's very true. Yeah, that's very true. I did buy one of your sleeves though, the sleeve thing.

The power sleeve that I did with Leah Hitoshida, yes. Yeah, I bought one of those when I was a kid. Yeah, we were the first ones to manufacture those in this particular hemisphere. They were being sold in Europe. We came up with our own design and created something called the power sleeves. Yeah. We don't have them anymore, but, man, it was nice. It was very nice.

It was absolutely fantastic, yep. Yeah, good wow so did you get what did you develop your grip fighting strategy like did you come up with it on your own like very interesting because you don't have a very traditional judo path where you like learn from one guy and then the guy brought you up you kind of like created this whole thing semi you know your own system, your own theories, right? So how did that... Well, I wouldn't say... Here's my thing. Judo is, for me, applied engineering and applied physics. I can take any judo technique, and it's a lever and a fulcrum,

and then the person flops over. I move their legs to the normal, and then I come underneath and I throw them. It doesn't matter. Uchimata, Harai, Goshi, Surikomi, Goshi, Ogoshi, Koshiguruma, Kubinagi, they're all the same thing. If I draw a free body diagram of them, they're all the same thing. The thing tilts over, lever here, all of them are the same. So once I got to the point names be damned, I said,

well how do I implement this in order to win? For it's a system called GATN it's grip attack transition nirwaza so for me there I started on the nirwaza part because the the and this is why people love Brazilian Jiu Jitsu so much Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is easy it's simple and what makes it easy and what makes it simple is that from a kinesthetic standpoint, all right, there's less kinesthetic awareness that is necessary for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. I don't have to balance myself on two feet and understand where my body is in three dimensions. I can simply lay down on the floor. Anytime I'm on the floor, I'm actually,

it's actually a lower energy state, all right? When you're at the lowest energy state possible, you're laying down in your bed. When you're in the highest energy state possible, you're upright, that's just what it is. As I wanted to move to a lower energy state, I moved myself to the ground. So I started with the NAWASA, easier to learn,

I can learn it fast, I'm not as tired. I'm not as fatigued. And I can accumulate and acquire as much information as possible. Then I studied a lot of Anders K. Erickson on the acquisition of expertise and how to do it and how to utilize deliberate practice. And at the same time, I also studied strength and condition. In 2001, I ended up getting my certification as Certified Strength and Cond specialist through the National Strength and Conditioning Association. I'm currently on the editorial review board where I review the research that comes in and approve it now. But I was acquiring all this information because I knew that judo operated under strength,

conditioning, techniques, tactics, and strategy. Strength, conditioning, technique, tactics, and strategy. Everybody focuses on techniques. Yes. So that's cool if you focus on technique, but here's the deal. You can be as technical as you, you can be the most technical five-year-old in the world. You're not going to beat me because I'm stronger than you absolutely yeah it's very correct so yeah there is a point where tech strength in and of itself becomes a

technique because I can be so strong that you just can't get your shit off and I agree I just you've been you've been somewhere with somebody grab your sleeve you're like, it doesn't matter what you do, you're not getting your sleeve back. Do you remember Oredis Despain? Yes. I mean, I fought him. We fought, so we went overtime in Pan Ams.

Yeah. We went overtime in Pan Ams, and I ended up losing in the overtime by a false attack. But, man, that was like running into my twin. Dude, that guy's a freak. I fought him in the finals of the Pan American Grand Prix. overtime by a false attack but that was like running into my twin so he that guy's a freak I fought him in the finals of the Pan American Grand Prix he reached out and grabbed the pen and I donkey kicked as hard as I could to try to get that hand off that hand didn't move dude yeah I couldn't believe how strong this guy's hands were and I kind of like almost pissed myself I was like

Jesus Christ I can't believe could you imagine grabbing a pan like by the knee and you're kicking it and not moving? Let me tell you something. It was like fighting him and fighting Mario Sabino were the worst. It was the worst for me. Because for me, it was a lot easier to go with somebody who thought they were a technician. I was like, this ain't no problem.

Yeah, break him down. Yeah, I got this in the bag. But man, somebody who would use that brute force and power game like that, mission i was like this ain't no problem yeah i got this yeah i got this in the bag but man somebody who would use that like brute force and power game like that it was really really tough for me ah that's very interesting so let me go back so for me it was it was grip attack um transition and it wasn't right it was i call it g-a-t-n that's what it is for me so i started with the nirwaza and then when I start with the Newaza, I look at the transition that has to get me to the movements that are good for me.

And then off of that, I pick my attack. I don't pick my attack based upon I want to learn this technique today. I think that Uchimata is a useless technique. And I'm going to tell you why. Oh, that's interesting. Listen, that'll be a snippet that you use. Yeah, we're taking that. Right.

Here's the thing. What, if I'm not in a Sambo space, what transition into Newaza could I use Uchimata for? I don't know, landing into side control maybe? I don't know. Are you talking about if you failed?

Yeah. Oh, if you failed Uchimata. Yeah, it's very difficult. You can go like, come out and go sumi. Every other technique that I'm using, I'm using because it has a transition into Neiwaza. Let's get some examples. Let's get some examples.

For me? Yeah. Ogoshi. Ogoshi, okay. Ogoshi, or cross-sleeve slice, you fall on your face, I'm running Clock Choker or Curry Area Jermaine. Because I don't believe in throws. I believe in attacks.

I love that. Like, Ogoshi's an attack. A slice is an attack. A collar drag is an attack. We watched Travis Stevens do a BJ A collar drag is an attack. We watched Travis Stevens do a BJJ collar drag at the Olympics. That's very true. Just to get to the ground. Yeah.

Because what it is is it's a Kazuri Yoko Otoshi. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. But once I got you to the ground, man, I got the collar. I move you around, come in, boom. My Hadaka Jime. Right there. Yeah.

Right there. So I pick techniques that transition well into Nehwaza. Yeah. After I pick the attack, then we use the grip sequence. Because what happens is we do it backwards in Judo. In Judo, we learn all these techniques, which is great. Yeah. But I say techniques are bullets.

Grip sequences are guns. So I got all these different techniques, and they don't match the sequence. They don't match my grip sequence. So I'm sitting here doing the catch sequence. Yeah, but where's my throw? When I post my lapel hand, what throats do I have available? I got Seonagi, Seonagi Kochi, Seonagi Osoro, Seonagi Kochi, Seonagi Kosoro. Right?

Yeah. That's it. When I grab the sleeve, what do I have? When I grab the sleeve, I got, what is his name? Karaguma? No. Yeah, you do have Kataguma, but... Mongolian Senagi?

Yeah, that. Man, I can't remember my man that fought anyway. And Van Der Gies. Oh, yeah, yeah. Van Der Gies posted, did the catch, brought his lapel hand out, and then back over top, came over for a Marote Senagi. And threw anyway for Ippon. Wow, that's right.

Yeah, I remember that. So that technique is available. But off of the catch part of the catch sequence, there's not a lot of techniques available. So you go to the catch, you push across, you grab the sleeve. Once you grab the sleeve, you got your one-handed Taiyo. I could push across and then he pulls away. I have my Marote Gari. I have my drop Sode.

And then I had, when my two hands are and then i had when my two hands are on the gi when my two hands are on the gi for me yes tomonage tomonagi my man i remember it but you would do tomanage to kick the base out the kick to kick the base out now everyone's doing that now yeah to just get you know who taught me that who did it flavio canto oh yeah flavio man that dude too he does because he could go off for that and go for that arm, or he could kick the leg over for the Cantu choke. So if you notice, Flavio Cantu didn't have a lot of forward throws when he fought. No, he didn't.

No. I stayed with Flavio for two weeks, man, in Brazil. Oh, wow, that's interesting. Yeah, man, I stayed at Flavio's house, man. We trained with the Brazilian national team and the Portugal national team. Mm-hmm. Very cool. Man, so once I found the grip sequences I need, my job was never to get to the two handed judo space.

But when I got to the two handed judo space, my job when I got to two handed judo, I needed to get my attack off before you got yours off. Mm. And then once we hit the ground, we're home cooking chitlins, baby. You know, I love that because it's such a well-crafted judo system for fighting, you know,

and the goal is to win, you know? And some people, the goal is to like enjoy Rondori, hang out, break a sweat, but the goal is to win. You like anything you're saying. Yeah, for sure.

It's based upon game theory. Now, here's the beautiful thing. I don't coach everybody the way that I train. Yeah, that's cool too. I'm a coach. So my son, like people say, man, your son has such a great Uchimata. Who taught him? I taught him Uchimata.

I said, you didn't do Uchimata? I don't need to do Uchimata to teach somebody how to do Uchimata? My man. I mean, it's… How old are your kids now? How old are your kids now? How old are your kids now? Rufus will be 18 in April and Roddy is 14. Wow.

Roddy's a tank. Man, she's a tank. She loves Osoto. Yeah. Right, she loves Koshiguruma. She's a tank, man. She beats most of the men in the club, man. She's just super, super, super strong.

Yeah. And she trains, they both train hard. It's, judo is a martial art man, but martial arts fall under the umbrella of fine arts. There's nothing but movements. Did you say fine arts or fighting arts? Fine arts. Fine arts.

Fine arts. Judo in and of itself is a dance with the seasoning of violence. That's just what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was beautiful. That sounded good, didn't it? That was beautiful. That was beautiful.

That was gorgeous. No, but that's what it is. When we're teaching the kids how to move, we're teaching them how to move, what do we have to do in judo? We have to find the what? We've got to find the rhythm. You've got to say, hey, man, you do the kouchi. You do the kouchi and then the marute.

You can't do the kouchi and then the marute right away. You've got to do the kouchi, wait for the leg to step back, and then come underneath for the marote because you gotta find the rhythm. You gotta find what they call the lugaluce in Spanish. You gotta find the sweet spot. And that requires for you to wait. Yeah. Man, I put on music sometimes for my kids so they can learn how to move and dance and come and say, I'm like, you move and dance and come and say. Because they need to find the rhythm. The rhythm. The randori is to find the rhythm. Randori is to find the rhythm.

People think Randori is to win. Randori is to find the rhythm, find the sweet spot, do the same thing over and over no matter if they know it's coming. It's just like training in any other sport or training in football. Run the same play over and over again against different defenses, against different looks, against different bodies, against different people. And then also static on the dummy in order to get the technique refined. As soon as you learn the technique, it's not going to work.

You've learned the technique. Now you've got to be able to do the technique under pressure, under duress. And then you've got to do the technique from from the ayotsu position, do the technique from the kenka-yotsu position. Because when we first learn the technique, we don't learn it from ayotsu or kenka-yotsu. We learn the technique from the person standing square. That's very true. Correct.

It doesn't. So in order for me to get the person square, I have to do a kouchi, an ouchi, a step out drag or a sasai to make the person get square. And then when they get square, my job is for the person to recognize that position and then go. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.

The reason why we train people from square is for the purpose of visual recognition. Yeah. So that when, like if you've ever gone with one of your students and you fight them as a lefty and they can't attack and as soon as you switch to righty and start gripping then they can attack. That's very true. Yeah. So that when, like, have you ever gone with one of your students and you fight him as a lefty and they can't attack? And as soon as you switch to your righty and start gripping, then they can attack. That's very true. Yeah. Because the brain can visually recognize, I can go now and I can't go now. Yes.

That's interesting. Yeah. Sometimes you don't have the experience to go with lefties. You don't have the experience. Yeah. Wow. Very interesting, man. And let me say this part, too, for the people who are listening on the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu side.

Wow, very interesting, man. And let me say this part, too, for the people who are listening on the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu side. Here's the problem that I have with a lot of people in the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu space because the coaching education and the educational process of the system of learning Jiu-Jitsu hasn't been as set because you just don't go back to the roots of Judo. But in Judo, if I learn every technique from somebody just standing square in front of me, all the tachi waza, and I learn the majority of, I learn the position of keisukatame, the position of kuzuri keisukatame, the position of ushiro keisukatame, the position of munigatame, the position of yokoshiokatame,

the position of tateshiokatame, the position of kamishiyokatame, the position of kuzuri kamishiyokatame, the position of Tate Shigetami, the position of Kame Shigetami, the position of Kazuri Kazuki, the position of Katate Jimei, the position of Gyaku Jimei, the position of Nami Jujutsu Jimei, the position of... If I learn all those positions and I can recognize them, check mark black belt. Wow. And BJJ believes that I need to be able to fight to do those things. That's not what I need to be able to do. I need to be able to do them because the key for judo is judo in and of itself is an educational system. In order for me to propagate judo and for me to

teach it, I have to pour into you. You got to pour into somebody else and then somebody can pour into everybody because everybody's not going to fight, but everybody can teach. That's very true, very true. Yeah. So we have this misnomer in BJJ that if you have a black belt, then somehow you have been donned to be able to kick ass. It's not about kicking ass. Can you teach someone how to tie their belt, how to fold their gi, how to do Osoto, how to get to the side mount, how to go from the side mount to the mount, how to slide the knee to the ear, how to get to Uki Kitami, how to swing the leg up around and do Jiu Jitsu Kitami. Can you teach them how to do that? Because if you can't teach them

how to do that, it doesn't matter if you won in the world Jiu Jitsu championship. It doesn't matter. Yeah, interesting. So now you're teaching teaching judo you have your own club right florida tampa judo yes sir tampa florida judo yes how's that going i'm so curious to hear more about it how's it going because i know you coached a bahamanian olympic team for a little while yeah i talked to yeah coach the bahamas judo federation i saw i still coach bahamas judo federation i consult right now. I coached at the Junior World Championships. I coached at the Senior World Championships.

I coached at the Cadet World Championships. I was the head coach for the Cadet Worlds and Senior Worlds and assistant coach for the Junior Worlds. I coached at the CAC Games. How are things going at the dojo? My business model is very very different

than I would guess some other clubs. I run a dojo, I have about anywhere between, at one time I have maybe about 25, 30 students, all the way up to maybe about 80, 85 students. I love teaching, I just absolutely love it. It's just, I have several streams of income that come in. Mine is not just from the dojo. So I have, I got a client that I talked to today at 11 o'clock and I had, pardon me,

and I have, I got two clients in Germany, you know? Yeah. So you do a lot of online coaching still? Oh my God. you know yeah yeah online coaching still my clients my online clients pay more than the people who pay memberships inside the dojo online judo yeah I'm on the phone 35 minutes maybe 45 minutes sometimes an hour Wow that's pretty good because here's the thing yeah if it doesn't matter how much you train and you could I have a client right now who's having a problem.

He's having a problem protecting his sleeve hand. Okay. It doesn't matter how much randori he does. If he can't talk to a person inside of his dojo who can help him protect his sleeve hand he's done yeah i'm watching the film you understand this you can you can travel to europe you can go to you can go to czech republic you can go wherever you want to go if you're doing the same mistake over and over again and you're not and you don't have a feedback loop to take your film to somebody for them to watch it to give you the feedback for you to make the adjustments adjustments for when you go out there again,

you can change it, you're wasting your money. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So who do you pay for that? Because the coach in your dojo, he can't do it. Yeah, there's some coaches who don't really do run and glory,

who doesn't have the experience or the knowledge or the eyes to even look at it, you know? So that makes sense. Chantaro, this. Me standing in front of you like this. Yeah. And me standing in front of you like this are two totally different things. Yeah. This gives you my sleeves.

Yes. This allows my hands to be the first line of what? Defense, yeah. Bro, this is just totally different. This, it's like boxing, you come in, I can catch your hand. Who stands like this though? No, but there's some dudes who don't know the younger guy and you see some people doing this stuff like this.

Cuz they saw the professor doing not knowing that I just grab your sleeve pushing. I grab your sleeve and just punch you right in your face. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, punch him in the mouth. Why not punch you right in the face? Why not? Yeah, I love that the mouth. Why not? Punch him right in the face. Why not? Yeah.

I love that. We just said that. And it goes with the no-handed judo, one-handed judo. Because there was a time that I trained with Taraji because we're both New Yorkers, right? And Taraji dips into my dojo every now and then. And I see him. I've known him for a very long time. So it's like when he talks about this stuff and he always gave credit where it's due, right? Like those little minute differences when you're just squaring up within reach huge difference like righty versus

righty right righty versus lefty you just like these little things kind of matter and i love how you just said here versus here i love that and you know what it takes a very skilled experienced eye to be able to give that type of be able to give that man i watch i watch the film i have a i have a client um who who's a veteran worlds player man and i i just watched this film and dissected it and gave it back he was like man this was so hard to hear he said but this is why i pay you you can you can make these adjustments and make these changes like i have something called fsh all right i said beat the fsh i don't care so and when it works if you're Ayotzu or Kenka Yotsu. It doesn't matter. You beat the front side hand, period.

I'm a lefty. You're a righty. My job, I take my left hand and I beat your right hand, period. I beat your right hand. It's annoying. And even when you rip it back, then I can actually set my left hand. That's very true. And then you have this.

As soon as I set my left hand when I was doing judo, I don't, man, I'm going drop Sanai to the left. Because it doesn't matter if I hit it or miss it. It just needs to be good enough to rock you. And I got to do it how many times? Three times in a row. And then you're going to get a what? Shido.

You're going to get a shido. That's very true. That's it. And you can clock choke off of that, too, if I, like, belly out. Or, you know, not a clock choke. But if I belly out first, then you can get on top. And now you're trying to get up. I. That's very true. That's it. And you can clock choke off of that, too, if I belly out. Or, you know, not a clock choke, but if I belly out first, then you can get on top, and now you're trying to shoot. I get on the right. Exactly.

And even if you go to the side, and I get a side score, and then I scoot back underneath, which I used to do with Theo Caracasa. Oh, that's another name. Yeah. Boom. Throw, scoot back underneath, whop, and then jump on his arm. Man, those were good days, man. I remember those days.

Theo gave me my cauliflower here i was 15 at national i went in for uh uh fireman's and he need me in the year he gave me cauliflower here well let me tell you something yeah he was theo was a rough and rugged judo player man yeah he was a rough and rugged dude man those those days man the hundred dudes you know i loved it going to nationals and seeing you ah too and then like sticking around for the finals you know i was out first round i lost to like daniel doyle or something i was 15 16 but like sticking around and watching the guys man and you know it's such a small community but for me man coming up as a teen that was those are my heroes you guys you know what i mean what a christian arona you know i remember you i think i saw you fighting him you know all

these guys man what and there was pretty a good amount of people at the 100 division. Yeah, we used to get along. I remember Chuck Jefferson. That's right, yeah. He's like, how do you guys talk so much? How do you guys get along? Cuz Mike Barnes and I would talk at the table.

Yeah. Yeah, we'd talk at the table, I mean, on the way out. Yeah. We'd talk behind the table and we're on deck and we're just talking. And then we go out. When we go out there, we fight like we don't like each other. And then when we get off the mat, we slap five and keep going. And Chuck Jefferson's like, how do you guys do that?

Because the 73-kilo dudes, it was Chuck, Jimmy, Ryan Reeser, Orlando Fuentes, and then there was a couple other scrappers that were in there. But they did not get along when they were competing. Even the 6066, heavyweight's different. 100 plus very different type of- That's very different. We got a fat man love, you know what I'm saying?

Mike Proditis, he was in the mix, right? Yes, see I trained with Mike Proditis, man. I trained with him too. He's doing really, really well right now on the- Was he? On the veteran circuit. Yeah, man, he's winning. Yeah, he's doing very good. He's doing really, really well right now on the veteran circuit. Yeah, man. He's winning.

Yeah, he's doing very good. That's great. Yeah. And Martin Boonsayer would come down from 100 plus sometimes. He was a very strong athlete too, right? Yeah. I don't know if Martin ever came down from 100 plus, man, but he was 100, man. He was huge.

Yeah, he was a big dude. He was a big dude. He was big and super strong, man. Yeah, he was. Man, the golden days, huh? Do you miss those days of training and being in the room? No, you don't? Why not?

No, it was brutal, man. I tell people the level of that training that occurred and who I had to become at that time and the type of person that I was, it just wasn't good, man. It just wasn't good. I'm not going to say any names, but I'm older now

and I can see the new people who retire. And I've had people talk to me about some of the new people who have retired. Like, no names. I'm in a different space in my life, man. And I've heard people say, oh man, so-and-so is an asshole.

I say, hey man. I said, and I've heard some, I've heard the individual that i'm talking about i've heard him i've heard him say negative stuff about me and have had people come back and tell me that he said negative stuff about me and i and what i told that i said hey man do what i do i said extend them some grace i said because he's not going to be the same person in 10 years that he is now sure i said you can't cheer for him at the Olympics

and then talk shit about him behind his back. I said, because who he needed to be and who he has to be at that time is what made him who he is. I said, and he'll change over a period of time. I said, your priorities change. Your testosterone levels will go down as you get older. You'll mellow out. But you can't cheer for those people priorities change your testosterone levels will go down as you get older you'll mellow out but

you can't cheer for those people and then get mad with them when they are what they had to become to do that job that's a really tough job and you got to be really really callous yeah and I'll say this I'll I'll give I'll give people this name so I remember training with Jimmy Pedro and I I remember training with Jimmy Pedro and I've seen Jimmy and I've trained with Jimmy. Jimmy is a mellow guy now. When Jimmy was training, Jimmy was a mean fucking dude. Now, Jimmy had a great mask in public, but I've watched Jimmy on the mat, my man. You're talking about an intense dude. Like the level of intensity that Jimmy Pedro had, unbelievable.

And he did a great job when he was going out, you know, shake hands and hug the people and kiss the babies and stuff. But, man, behind the scenes, I'm not saying he was a jackass, not even anything of the sort. What I'm telling you is that level of intensity, he can't show people that level of intensity because What I'm telling you is that level of intensity, he can't show people that level of intensity because they're not ready to see that level of intensity. You don't want, how did my mom say it like this one time? She was like, in order for high-level sports to maintain their integrity,

the fans don't need to look behind the curtain. high-level sports to maintain their integrity, the fans don't need to look behind the curtain. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, wow, that's a good one. Yeah, you don't. Yeah, you do have to be a savage. You know, you got to be selfish, right? You got to put yourself first, priorities, number one.

Like, I don't care about anything else but me winning this thing, right? Everything and anything. one like I don't care about anything else but me winning this thing right everything and then I personally and you know I I you know I got divorced in 2019 and I can look back I don't think I did anything egregious to my ex-wife but I can look back on my life because when you when you go to therapy you got to take it doesn't matter if you think you did right you think you do nobody gets off nobody gets off of a ride that they're really enjoying you understand I'm saying yeah so you got to look back and say okay where was my hand in this situation yeah what could I have done better okay and I look I look back at it the answer you know the answer is Tommy Tommy nothing hmm what was gonna

happen was gonna happen yeah neither the person was going to ride with me or they weren't because here's the deal, my man. Some of that shit I ain't changing because I'm happy with what I got. You know what I'm saying? I'm not trading that Olympic ring in for nothing, my man. I'm not trading in none of my championship rings in for nothing. You know? And I'll deal with the fallout.

But I understand that who I was then impacts who I am now. Like some of my daughters and my son's friends, they think I'm crazy. You know what I'm saying? I'm not crazy. I'm just really intense at times. And my intensity level has gone down. Very true, yeah. Right, it's gone down.

I'm like mellow. know oh yeah yeah like i i was the dude unfortunately i was the guy i was man i have no problem talking about i'm older now i'll be 49 this year when i got on the map man my mentality was i had i didn't have enough time My mentality was I didn't have enough time. I was doing judo, but I wasn't a judoka. I'm a judoka now. Wow, I love that. Back then I was doing judo, but I was not a judoka, my man.

I was a football player with a gi on, my man. And my job, my job was to line up in front of you and destroy you and gut you up and get you out of there. And if you got hurt on the way, so be it. Did you not want to pursue that after Howard? Oh, I did, man. The Detroit Lions flew me out. And I thought they were going to pick me up as a free agent but it didn't happen. Then I got an offer to play in the CFL

but the offer to play in the CFL was for 27.5 USD and I had a job with Texas Instruments for $40,800 in 1997. So I took a job

with Texas Instruments and that's what landed me in Attleboro, Massachusetts. I got to Attleboro, Massachusetts man and I started training judo again. Wow. And I started training judo again. Wow.

And I started training with Charlie Bridgham, who just passed away this past year. And then I started training with Jimmy Pedro. When I went to train with Jimmy Pedro, and this is why I don't buy into any of that bullshit when people say, oh, it's a little bit too far to get to your dojo. I used to...

Boston had something called the Big Dig that they were doing at the time. It was like a big construction thing that was going on. They would do it a lot at night. They worked at night. When I go to judo practice at night, it'd take about an hour, hour and a half to get to Somerville, Massachusetts. Jimmy trained at Somerville Judo Club.

Then when I came back after practice was over, I would be stuck in traffic, sometimes getting home at 3 o'clock in the morning, 2 o'clock in the morning. There were times when I had to pull off the side of the road and go to sleep. And I have slept for about 3, 4 hours

and then get on the road and keep going because the traffic was gridlocked. I'm talking about 2 hours, 3 hours, sometimes 4 hours to get home. And this is 2, three times a week. Man, I remember I drove. It was the winter. This is a crazy story I tell about Jimmy all the time. You've heard of Kangeko training, yes?

Yes. Okay, so I'm not going to talk about that. I'm going to tell you about it. I did that in Japan at Tokai, which was horrible. I cried every fucking day. Excuse me. You can bleep that out. So I'm going to talk about that. I'm gonna tell you about, I did that in Japan at Tokai, which was horrible. I cried every fucking day, excuse me. You can bleep that out if you need to. So I'm going to the dojo. I drive up to Hoku in Somerville, and there's only one car there.

Mm. Jimmy had the key. So I walk in, it's fucking cold, okay? Yeah, it's cold up there. It's freezing cold and no heater on, okay? I don't say nothing. No. I don't say nothing? Jimmy don't say nothing.

Jimmy had this ritual. He used to go, he used to brush his teeth before he did Rando before he started working out, I don't know. I didn't know that. That's funny. He used to go, he used to brush his teeth and he started taping up. started working out. I don't know. I didn't know that. That's funny. He used to go brush his teeth and he started taping up. So I'm not saying nothing, you know what I mean? Jimmy's taping up, I started taping up.

Jimmy's dressed, I'm getting dressed, I don't say nothing. We walk out to the mat, Jimmy gets up front, kill skate, great. Sets the clock, starts running, does 10, 10 and 10. You got 10 pushups, 10 jump overs, get back up, starts running, does 10, 10 and 10. You got 10 push-ups, 10 jump-overs, get back up, start running, boom. Then we're on the mat, sliding up and down, doing the jikomi. Jimmy's running a full fucking practice like everybody is in the joint. I don't say nothing, okay? He sets the clock.

We do about six rounds of nirwaza. Boom, sets the clock. We do about six rounds. Now, I'm dying, okay, going with Jimmy because Jimmy's a machine six rounds of tai chi waza we finished we stretch we get off and then we go in the back then we didn't talk man Jimmy didn't say shit okay then we finished we go in the back we bowed off yeah I say um I said, Jimmy, I said, it's fucking cold. And he says, man, it's cold as shit.

I said, I can't feel my legs from the hip down. He said, me either. Bro, I could not feel. Chantaro, I could not feel my legs, my man, from the hip. Bro, it was so cold. My feet were like ice. But I didn't complain, because Jimmy didn't say anything either. But Jimmy didn't say nothing, so I wasn't gonna say anything either cuz-

No, you don't wanna be that guy. But I'm a brown belt man, and to me, Jimmy is like a demigod. You understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jimmy's the man. Listen, people don't understand this. Right now when you look at judo, you see world championships every year. When we were competing- No, it was once every two years.

It was every other year, right? So in 1998, Jimmy went 83 and four. Wow, did he? Damn. Yes, and he won the Shariki Cup, which no American had ever won. Yeah. 83 and four, my man. Yeah.

Understand that Jimmy won the world championships in 1999. Yeah, that's right. If there was a world championship, Jimmy, in 1997, Jimmy hurt his, I think he hurt his MCL. Oh, MCL? MCL or LCL on his knee, one or the other.

And he didn't go to the worlds. In 1997, 1998, 1999, Jimmy was the best 73 kilogram player on the planet. Period. Yeah, wow. In 2000, the pressure to work up on the Olympics and all the media, I think

I kind of threw a monkey wrench in all of his training. He ends up fifth, okay? Retires, comes back, gets third, man. In 2004. That's amazing, yeah. Man, when I say it's beyond amazing. It really is, man. I went to

train with Jimmy. Even when I was at the training center, I went back to train with Jimmy because I needed to know. After I got married, I went back to training. I needed to know how the hell is he training stateside and he's so good. He just goes out to travel and do the camps. That's when

I got my own strength and conditioning coach. His strength and conditioning program was so ridiculous that it could make up for some of the things that he didn't have in terms of training partners inside of the dojo. I mean, he trained a lot in Tsukuba, too, in Japan. I think he had like a homestay family and all this stuff. He did do that. Yes, he did.

But, man, boy, that's a – what an interesting thing, huh? Yep. Yeah. It was something, man. Do you train your kids like this too? My own personal kids, yes. Your own personal kids? Yeah.

You hard on them? Unfortunately, yeah. It's... I'm not as hard on Rod D as I was on Rufus, but I don't coach Rufus anymore. I got Rufus, because I have people who coach me and advise me, and I think two years ago, I stopped coaching Rufus. I got him his own strength and conditioning coach.

So is there sports judo? They must play all the sports too, right? Rufus is going to Howard University in the fall. It's a great university. Yeah, good. Oh, that's awesome. Football? Football scholarship.

He's on football scholarship. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, congratulations. Yeah, full of football scholarship. Oh, man. That's amazing. He a big kid? He's big?

Rufus is 6'2", 20. Yeah, he's way bigger than me, man. He's tall. How tall are you again? Man, I'm 5'8 1⁄4". That's what I used to be. I think I'm shorter now. I'm the than me, man. He's tall, he's dwarf. How tall are you again? Man, I'm 5'8 and a quarter. That's what I used to be. I think I'm shorter now. I'm the same way, man.

Yeah, I'm just short. I thought you were 5'10, but I'm not 5'10. Bro, I tell, when my son, when he sees the people who I used to fight, I tell him, I said, man, I was the shortest dude in 100 kilograms. At the Olympics, I was the shortest dude in 100 kilograms. You know what, it was you and Peter Cousins. Peter Cousins, yeah, cuz Peter Cousins, he was, Peter was a 90 and he moved up to 100.

Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, because him and Winston Gordon used to fight all the time. That's right, that's right. Yeah, man. Oh, man. Throwback, throwback. Yeah, man. Winnie Gordon, that's my man.

Yeah, I love Winnie. He's all right. Yeah. But, man, what was I saying? Tough on the kids yeah yeah it was um it's created a little bit of um tenuous relationship with my with my son and i that kind of is smoothing out now because i don't i don't bother him as much anymore but it's it's one of those things where you want to give your kids what they ask you for. I had to remind my son, there's a thing on his wall that he wrote when he was,

a paper that's on his wall that he wrote when he was like five or six years old, saying that I love football. I never pushed my son into football. But he told me he wanted a football scholarship. I've always trained my kid in judo. I told him you need to stay in judo. And then when you finish with judo, all right, you'll be able to do anything because the biomotor skills that are developed in judo are great for any sport, all sport. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what the athletic activity is. it's going to be around the four pillars of human movement. And I learned this from J.C. Santana.

I'm not sure if he made it up, but it's the four pillars of human movement. There's push-pull, there's level change, there's rotation, and locomotion. Push-pull, level change, rotation, and locomotion. So judo handles all of those things. Yeah. Other sports don't handle those things like that. I told Rufus, I said, man, trust me, if you do judo at a high level, as a young kid, you'll be able to do any sport.

He does judo, starts playing football in ninth grade, COVID year. They don't get the whole season. Yeah. Plays in 10th grade. And he played 11th grade don't get the whole season. Yeah. He's in tenth grade and he played eleventh grade. He has a he has a tremendous season. What position does he play? Middle linebacker my man. Ooh what a position. What he sees now is that because when he walks on the football field he knows for a fact he can beat any of those people one on one.

Yeah. Which gives him a huge confidence boost. Definitely. Alright. Yeah. He ends him a huge confidence boost. Definitely. All right? Yeah. He ends up hurting himself in the pregame of his senior year. He hurt his MCL. But he had an early offer to Howard.

Yeah. So, full scholarship. So, we used the whole football season over. What he told me, what he said, he said, Dad,

I said, yes. He said, thank you. He says, I get it now. I said, oh.

You get it now. He didn't get it now he didn't like it man when I woke him up every morning I had to get up in the morning and go train my daughter's a little bit different she's kind of she's kind of glad

that she has my time now and Rufus doesn't because I've done my due diligence with Rufus I did what I was supposed to do scholarship required now we've got to work with Rod D she wants to wrestle in the scholarship

wow she's been wrestling this whole time? no ooh Rod D's done scholarship required. Now we've got to work with Roddy. She wants a wrestling scholarship. Wow. She's been wrestling this whole time? No. Roddy's done she's done she's done a wrestling tournament.

I think she did like two wrestling tournaments. One of them she won. But she's been in judo this whole time? Oh my. Roddy started judo at the age of three.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. And then how's she at judo? Does she compete at all? Yeah. Yeah. She's won the US Open a few times.

But I don't believe in sending my kids to the Pan American infantiles and juvenile. I don't do that. Okay. For what? Bro, it's, bro. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. Okay, so let me say this. For my children, I understand that a lot of other people do it

because that's the time when their kid can win. I'm not worried about my kids dropping out because my kids can't quit. My kids can't quit judo. There's no quitting judo. There's nothing worse, in my opinion, than being in a situation where you don't have any self-defense, so you can't do anything if you get caught in a situation where you don't have any self defense so you can't do anything if you get caught in a situation. That that's horrible to me. That's judo in my house is not an extracurricular activity. It is

part of the curriculum. Yeah. Period. Rufus got his black belt last year. He doesn't have to come to the dojo unless I have when I have activities or cross-team activities, if he's not in another sport. Right now he's in track. If I need him for a promotion or if I need him to come, listen, he comes and teaches class sometimes. He'll come in class.

Like, he's a black belt. I told him a black belt is not a rank, it's a responsibility. I love that too. It's not a rank, it's a responsibility. So you're responsible. You still got to come in. He has the key So you're responsible. You still got to come in. He has the key to the dojo. You still got to go in there sometime.

You got to clean up my man, put the toilet paper on the rack, and do what you need to do. Right. You're a black belt in the facility. Right. Yes. Like, man, my cousin passed away four weeks ago now, and I got the call.

We grew up together. It just knocked me down, man. I mean, it just emotionally knocked me down. I called Rufus. I said, Rufus, man, I can't make it to class today, man. I need to sit down at home. I got to cry it out a little bit, my man. I had to cry it out.

He was like, no problem, Dad. I got you. He went and he taught class. You know? But it's my daughter. She'll have her black belt at 16, too, I'm sure. Damn, she's 14 now and out there competing, huh? She's competing.

She'll compete this weekend at the North American Judo Championships. Okay, good, good, good. We have some USJA competition. She's doing four divisions, two coasting and two regular. Nice. And then I'm not – she's not doing the U.S. Open this year, but she'll most likely do the camp because this summer, I want to give her an opportunity to cross-train

in wrestling a little bit, let her have some fun. The thing about judo, man, is that – let me say this. There's certain clubs – I don't know, Kitsusai does this good. Chief Pride does this well. The Coen Brothers do this well. They have a community. And the Coen Brothers kind of do it because of the wrestling, but they have a community and the Coen brothers kind of do it because of the wrestling but they have a community

where the kids kind of have fun Judo is a little bit different man Judo is, it's not a team sport it's a martial art but it's really individual and you're kind of in control of your own progress and how you do things but

the wrestling gives you an opportunity to be on teams with other girls yeah hang out and the camaraderie and very true what i what i appreciate though is from the judo she learns how to she knows how to be an independent learner and she's not a follower yes she has she has leadership skills i can put her in front of the class she can teach i also like what she gets from the wrestling and i'm going to let her cross-train in wrestling a little bit more this summer, go to some camps so that when she goes into ninth grade, she can hit the ground running and wrestle. Awesome.

You still train a lot? Man, I train. I train every day, but I'm not on the mat. I'm on the mat once every 10 days. I can't get on the mat all the time, man. But you still grapple a little bit? Yes, but that's once every 10 days, man, once every 10 days. But you't get on the mat all the time, man. But you still grapple a little bit? Yes, but that's once every 10 days, man. Once every 10 days.

But you still lift weights, everything, right? I still lift weights. I still, in the morning, like this morning. There's no shoulder pressing, right? No, I bench a little bit. I'm losing that ability on my left side. I can't really like shoulder press heavy anymore. And you can't, I can't do Marote, you know, at all anymore.

Yeah, me neither. My elbow doesn't close all the way now. It's terrible. My elbow's hurt, but it is what it is. A couple knee surgeries, you know, at all anymore. Yeah, me neither. My elbow doesn't close all the way now. It's terrible. My elbow's hurt. It's horrible. I've had a couple knee surgeries, but I appreciate all of it. I wouldn't trade it in for nothing. Yeah, man.

Man, I remember back in the day, you and Adler fighting it out too. That's a name that we didn't. Yes. He was another one that was big, strong, lefty. He was a strong lefty. And I think maybe you gave me this tip when I fought him in, what was it, 2001 or 2002 when I first won U.S. I had him in the finals, and it was like, you know,

if you lock up 50-50, right versus left, he's going to throw you Uchimata. I think it was you because we were talking on the sidelines or something. And then so I just came off wrestling season, and I would put right hand on the collar and then run around and grab a leg, run around and grab a leg. He didn't like that. And then just shido-shido out of bounds, and then run around and grab a leg, run around and grab a leg. He didn't like that. And then just shido, shido, out of bounds, and then he started panicking a little bit.

Exactly. He didn't like that type of style. I fought him one-handed. Yeah. I fought him one-handed the whole time, one-handed judo and doubles and one-handed singles and one-handed high crotches. And I remember we went into overtime

and I came inside and got the left hand on and stepped across and boom, hit him with a cauchi for a yuko. Boy, he was pissed. Love it. The thing about it is that a lot of people thought just because I did football and that I had a power style that I did not know how to do judo. I tell people all the time, I say, you don't get a black belt in judo because you don't know how to do judo. I still did not know how to do judo. I tell people all the time, I say, you don't get a black belt in judo because you know how to do judo.

I'm like, I still know how to do judo. My foot sweeps and my, you know, I still know how to do it. I mean, I do judo well, you know. It's just that when I was competing, I was using my strengths, period, and working on my weaknesses inside of the dojo awesome man I love hearing that dude and you know

I was coming in you were sort of like already established and then we never actually had a match in competition no we didn't and every tournament

I would look at the brackets and we would be in the same bracket and I would be like you know partially like thank god and then there was also

a part of me that was like man I wish one day I could get this guy and then you know you retired you know you're 10 years older and there was also a part of me that was like man I wish one day I could get this guy and then you know you retired you know you're 10 years older and there was a little bit

of like oh man I missed out on you know working competing with one of the greats you know but thank you man thank you for being here thank you for all your insights

we gotta get going now but let's do this again man I think where can the guys find you who are listening here I mean you can find me online man you can find me at Rodney Ferguson on Instagram

or at Tampa Florida Judo. What I really like to do is I like to give people free products and free stuff. You can go to www.gripfighting.com and there's my Grip Fighting Academy. And there's a seminar that I did in Atlanta. That's 100% absolutely free. You're more

than welcome to uh you don't you don't have to buy anything i mean i really want you to learn i really want you to get better um and that's it that's what i have for you man yeah awesome man maybe you do a video for me on youtube because i have such a huge youtube thing you know maybe we could also clip some of your things put it up there so people could see it also you know all these ideas that you got with the systemized method to to winning and competing man that's a beautiful thing dude i'm like you know inspired right now and i when i tell people it's different it's different if you want to be a competitor that's different than if you want to be a grassroots judo player yes and i respect both i don't think one is better than

the other and the one thing that i don't do i want to i want to get this point out there because a lot of people make this mistake do never ever ever if you've gone to the olympics or you haven't gone on them but you're going to world championships i'm going to world championships so if you want a bunch of national never ever ever berate the coaches at the grassroots level without those coaches the students that you have never come to you. Very true. Yeah. That that person that's running that after school program and picking the kids up with the bus and and providing the lemonade and vanilla wafers after practice. Yeah. Those people are some of the most important people in the judo process. Yeah. That coach

that's teaching the kids how to throw left and how to throw right and changing their feet and doing all the stuff that you have to detrain. If they don't put those kids in a gi at all, that person never comes to you. Very true. Very true. Learning how to line up in line, learning hierarchy and structure, learning how to bow and respect the place, learning how to clean up a mat, learning how to defer to people who have a higher ranking, learning how to work well with others,

learning maximum efficiency and minimum effort, learning all these things that we have in judo, they have an enormous amount of benefit that goes beyond getting at the top of a medal stand. And when you're a coach like me and other coaches that are like me that do specialized coaching, specialized training, I sometimes hear people talk bad about these other coaches.

Don't do that, man. Man, have a level of gratitude and graciousness for anybody that opens the door or opens a portal for someone to start the martial arts process, even the person. I remember I used to talk bad about Taekwondo. Man, do you know how many people that we've trained, out that have done taekwondo yeah but if those dudes don't if they don't never step on the matter they don't ever do taekwondo they don't they don't ever enter into that martial arts space they don't ever come to see us yeah very true man that's a good lesson for me too man i gotta remind myself of that because sometimes i'm like oh yeah i don't want to do it yeah this

guy you know it's so easy to kind of do that you know especially you know if you know, especially, you know, if you've been in the game for so long. You've been in the game for a long time, yes. Yeah, but, you know, we're very, very grateful for all those people. Yeah, so that's a great point, Roddy. Oh, man, thank you, man. Listen, I can tell you this, man. Yeah. What I was in my 20s is not what I was in my 30s

and what I was in my 30s and what I was in my 40s. And I will say this to anybody, and I'm on the end of my 40s getting ready to be in my 50s and I always try to make this point man if anybody who's watching if I've rubbed anybody the wrong way over you know hey man let me just give a global apology you know because uh it's things happen you know you change over time and I'm not who I was when I was doing MMA and competing. It's not who I am now. Yeah, for sure. It's just very, very, very different.

Awesome. Man, listen, I love everybody, my man. I love everybody. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Dude, thank you so much for being here, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Sartari.

Thank you for having me, man. Let's do it again, man. I mean, I got to tell you, man, this whole thing was invigorating for me, man, to see you, you know, obviously not face-to-face, but kind of face-to-face, you know, and talk to you about your roots. And I knew a lot of the stuff you were talking about already because I've heard it so many times through the grapevine, but to get you on here and actually have a conversation with you, great, man. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, man.

Listen, Shantara, man, I'm really, really, really proud of you, man, and what you've done professionally and personally, man. Appreciate it. personally man you you have shown people as I have done and Jimmy and Travis and other people that you could make a good living man by doing martial arts especially if you do it the right way you know what I mean yes you're doing a fantastic job man I appreciate you thank you you too man I appreciate it thank you