The Shintaro Higashi Show - Dojo Etiquette

Episode Date: March 1, 2021

Shintaro and Peter talk about important etiquette that needs to be followed around the dojo. The dojo is a place where people with all kinds of background and skill level come together to practice Judo, and it can be confusing for some to navigate through the complex social interaction. However, it is important to keep the dojo etiquette in mind and follow it so that everyone can feel safe and have fun while practicing Judo. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today we're going to talk about dojo etiquette and why it's so important to the dojo culture and the overall environment to the entire experience. Yeah, I think these dojo etiquettes are sometimes overlooked often, you know, because in a dojo a lot of times people just come in to work out and they don't really care about they might overlook other things but i think this really sets a dojo apart from you know just being successful good ones to the great ones right yeah and then it's not just about taking your shoes off and bowing and hygiene right that just almost goes without saying right right but it goes far beyond that right far beyond

that so we kind of wanted to go into that today that's right so let's start with um we're gonna that just almost goes without saying. Right. But it goes far beyond that. Right. Far beyond that. So we kind of wanted to go into that today. That's right. So let's start with, we're going to kind of go or divide the etiquettes from groups to groups and whatnot. So let's start with the beginners and maybe the color belts, like mid-level judokas.

Yeah. So there's different ways to interact from lower belts going to high belts high belts going to lower belts right because it's a natural hierarchy in the dojo place right everyone is denoted he has this color belt that person has that color belt and it's very clear right right so the interactions going in one direction or the other direction it sort of changes little by little and i think think it's very interesting. It's very nuanced. If you're a white belt, you kind of don't understand the culture, right?

Something as simple as like a lot of BJJ schools, lower belts are not allowed to ask higher belts to do rounds, to do rolls, to do Rundori, right? So for a white belt to go up to a blue belt, you're like, hey, do you want to go roll? Like that's kind of like something that's frowned upon. And I've heard this in a lot of other schools not all bjj schools but i've heard this in many jiu-jitsu schools right so i thought that was kind of interesting right and i think judo

and every dojo kind of has their own set of social norms i guess the dojo norms so first and foremost if you're a beginner walking into the dojo, right, asking is really, really important. Right. So the first person you'll probably encounter or meet as a white belt at a dojo is your sensei, your teacher. Potentially. Maybe the person has a, there's a front desk person. All right. And yeah.

And the first question that they ask is, you know, the first words that come out of a beginner's mouth generally does indicate what kind that person is going to be in the dojo place. Right? If a person comes and is like, hey, man, I'm here for a free class. Right? Where's my free gi? And they come in and they don't ask anything about the sort of etiquette. Then it's like, okay, this guy is going to be a pain in the butt. You know what I mean?

Or, you know, on the contrary, you get someone coming in coming in and say hey is it okay if i leave my shoes here uh should i bow onto the mat right all of a sudden okay this person's concerned about how they should be right environment right it's more about yeah it's just like when when you're coming as a white belt you don't you have to assume that you don't know anything about the culture and then this kind of environment so it's better to ask better but you don't yeah go ahead yeah and then you know it's it's and it's not about yeah like you said they're coming in and try to get much out of it it's about this is about joining a community so it's it's it's about giving to the community as much as you yeah take out of it so and this is a little bit you know philosophical

but yeah like if you're talking about knowledge and what you know what you don't know and one of my favorite quotes of all time is you just don't know what you don't know right right and there's two types of people people that love what they know and love what they don't know right so the person comes in and starts saying hey you know i did kung fu and this and that and i have this experience that experience and they just start talking about what they already know as opposed to using that time to gather information right you already know the type of person that they're going to be right then yeah it's they're not really there to learn judo almost like they're trying to like

i mean they're there to learn judo but yeah right they're they're just by nature like look what i know you know right right so that's a little bit right because every dojo has right a different culture so so that's how you for when you first walk in yeah you know what you want to be polite and then kind of ask questions and whatnot for when you first walk in you and you know what you want to be polite and then kind of ask questions and whatnot so when you actually get into the practice get your gi get to the practice and then interact with other higher belts what are some of the things that you need to be aware of you think well i think uh being coachable is very very important and likability and coachability is huge you don't want to be the person coming in as a beginner that no one wants to teach right right teachability is

really important it's like hey you know you go like this and you go like that for this technique and they're like oh i know i know it's like oh you got to pull a little bit more i know i know it's like that i know i know guy no one likes that guy right right guy or girl right no one likes that person yeah so it's like you don't want to be the i I know, I know. It's like, yes, I, yeah. Okay. You know, let me try it like this. Right. And then we're going to talk a little bit about the other direction of a higher belt

talking to a lower belt later on. Right. But you also don't want to be the person giving like nonstop feedback and giving a dissertation on everything. Right. It's like you want the person to, you give one feedback, the person drills, right. And it's kind of a back and forth, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. So it goes both ways. It's bi-directional, but on the receiving side of it, as a beginner, you want to be coachable, right? You want people to want to teach you,

right? Cause that's what you're there for, to learn. Yeah. No one cares about your background and you know, this or that. Yeah. Going a little bit into detail about that.

You know how like nowadays, because of the proliferation of like youtube video instructions and whatnot yeah a lot of white belts will come in and then have some ideas about certain techniques and then sometimes you know because techniques uh every judoka has a different variation of that suits himself or herself so sometimes the advice higher belts give white belt or lower belts might be in almost like contradiction with what they what the lower belt and white belt see on youtube so yeah what what do you think uh white belts and lower belts should do in that kind of situation i always think that

you know everything you learn you should take with a grain of salt right because all the rules that you learn in the beginning like you you break some of those rules later on and when you do break some of these rules for instance like you never cross your feet you hear this all the time right right and yeah you're not really supposed to cross your feet when you walk side to side but whenever you get better right there's times when you can cross your feet when you're in dominant position when you're faking a turn throw right right like you cross your legs all the time yeah so you know you learn these rules later on the more you gain an experience and knowledge you can break these things with purpose right so when you're watching youtube videos and you hear something like this or never step over

on a whiz or or all these different isms, like you don't have the ability to sift through, right? Why, when, how, and all of a sudden, if you never cross your legs ever,

right? If you never step over on a whizzer ever, right? Like you're going to limit yourself. Right. So, you know, it's a lot of noise out there in like that YouTube world of like

instructionals. And, you know, sometimes like you could gain so much from watching it it but you have to actually come in and do it right but what i will say is you don't want to be the person that says hey i saw this youtube video uh they explain it like this and that person's a world champion who are you you know that kind of a thing i know yeah right never fares well so i would definitely suggest not to do that right and uh yeah i mean yeah like you say it's a lot of data points and styles and whatnot so you kind of have to everything is i guess in a way right

in in a in specific context you always talk about the context and whatnot yeah man you know they say like a broken clock is right twice a day right i'm talking about an analog clock yeah i mean i guess digital clocks digital clocks yeah yeah yeah and you know uh how do you know what move works what moves should be a staple what moves should be taken out right even if a technique works it doesn't fit into your system you know you're not a georgian grip guy but you do one technique from the georgian grip yeah what's that what use is that going to do for you right right so it's something of that nature you know and uh talking to your peers is very important but you want to be as concise as possible during drill time because drill time is for drilling nagakomi time is for nagakomi nirwaza time and doing roll time is for rolls right so you want to be able to be you know talking about some of these ideas and asking about some of these ideas in the most concise way.

And it goes both ways. Concise is the key because doing is the most important thing. Right. You want to have like a talk about it, chat about it. You're sort of an interpersonal learner. Right. Where you use language in that way to like really try to expand your knowledge base. Then do it after class or before class make note of it right uh this person's doing tile in a certain way or doing a hiva in a certain way it's like make note of it right it's like hey i'm gonna ask you about that later cool right because you know you don't want to get in a long drawn out conversation right in that time so do you so if yeah like during the drill drilling time like like if a lower belt has a question about something, what do you think?

You think you should just save, they should just save it till the end of the class? Or you think you can kind of ask a question here and there? What do you think is the right balance? Yeah, you got to know the right person to ask, obviously. Right. Right. So there's a big skill gap between like a white belt and a green belt and a green belt to a black belt and a black belt to the person leading the class right there's all levels of black belts right if you're a white belt yellow belt and then you know

if you're asking a basic question about a basic technique you don't need to go to the top person in the room to ask that question right and i understand you know you want to get the answer from the best person in the room but 90 of the time uh they're going to kind of give you a generic answer if you're asking about the basics so ask someone maybe two levels above you right and be very concise about it if it's a time where people are chatting and you notice like oh man everyone's chatting everyone it's kind of a you know and forth, easy drill kind of a time or even an open mat kind of a time,

then sure, ask away. But know who you're going to ask too. You know the people in the room that are going to give you a dissertation and keep you and talk to you about the history of one move for 20 things and how they did in a tournament and how they escaped it

and how they're the best thing on this planet. Now, all of a sudden, you're in this long drawn out conversation with this person and now it's like you get no reps in right you have to get your reps in so yeah that's uh that would be my tip for that and it's and that also you know you have to ask it in the right way right like i guess when you ask for let's say you're practicing osutogari you don't want to say oh, how can I make my Osutogari better? That's so like such a big topic. So yeah, it's a big one.

It's a big, you know, it's very general. And a lot of the times it's not what you're doing too, right? It's what your uke is doing. It's what your uke is letting you do. And the thing that I get a lot of the times is like, this doesn't feel normal. This doesn't feel natural. It's like, of course, this doesn't feel natural it's like of course this doesn't feel natural normal you've never done it before right think

about trying to write uh you know article or something right like draw something with your non-dominant hand that's going to be very unnatural because you're not used to this moment right right right so kind of tough to do that and then you know something that i've heard before like a white belt like a very emotionally intelligent white belt say to a higher belt is like hey man if something seems very off that i'm not doing right that's compromising your safety or something like let me know and i'll try to fix it i heard that one time and i'm like oh my god this guy is like emotionally intelligent he's smart i want to teach him right right it's like i want to talk to him i want him to be in the room you know as opposed to the guy that's like uh giving unsolicited advice and it's like

oh you're doing it wrong and every time you do it it's like your pinky's not doing the right day like get that guy out of the room i don't want him there you know what i mean because he's toxic no one wants to work with that person and then you get stuck with him during drills and you're like oh my god i gotta hear how he hit this move at the liberty ball tournament four years ago and i've had it before and he's gonna tell me my move is garbage yeah you don't want to be that guy right so you know you have to be intelligently selective as well yeah i think that's a good yeah oh no i was just saying that that's a good way to ask like it's just hey if you don't if you find something that doesn't feel quite right just let me know yeah it's because then i think you uh

the other side can like focus on certain specific things and then yeah and you know because the time that you're speaking to the person is so limited right because warm-ups you're not really talking right you're just going through the movements with like push-ups stretches this that this this break falls okay whatever right uh forward, okay, whatever, right? Forward rolls, back rolls, whatever. Okay, sensei teaches a technique. Time for drills or time for techniques. It's limited. You know, at Mind Dojo, it's like when we do a certain teaching thing,

it's between two and three minutes no matter what. I'll give you maybe three minutes or four minutes to drill it. We bring it back, go, bring it back. There's not too much downtime to be sitting there chatting away. Right. Right? So you much down time to be sitting there chatting away right right so you almost like have to be concise so the time that you do speak to your opponent is very limited and i try to limit it right you don't want to get into this long drawn out thing because and i think another thing is that you can't really describe all the little nuances

with your words it's better to to... It's very difficult. You have to do it, right? It's a physical thing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's better to do it, just get the big ideas and then do it and figure it out yourself rather than trying to ask the minute details, right? Yeah.

And communication style is really important too when you're talking about this stuff. Because when you're constantly saying like, am I doing it right? Like it doesn't feel right. You know, and immediately, like I i said probably five to ten words but you're already trying to communicate to the other person like man i really feel like i'm not good at this like i'm super insecure right so like there is a lot of non-verbal sort of communication things that happen during times like this right and then trying to be able to communicate to the other person like when the person's slamming into you with osotogari right it's like how do you tell that person like

dude you're freaking hurting me right now like what is the point of it right and then to be able to do that in a way right that's like completely without even judo or dojo period that's just straight up communication skills right some people have that right some people are good at that and then it's the job of the instructor to be able to not police it, right? But foster that environment. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Right.

And then if I see something and, you know, even me, when I would try not to call that one person out, if I see something that I don't like, I will say something. But I'll address the entire class and then I'll try to sort of make eye contact with the person. Right. Yeah. You've done that to me you know yeah later no you yeah that's uh yeah we'll talk about them more later too you know how to foster the environment the safe environment for everyone yeah so now we talked about drilling and the etiquette there let's kind of move on to the fun part the run run dory uh yeah so how what kind of etiquettes do you think uh the beginners should keep in mind uh during run dory like like you you kind of mentioned this in some schools they don't even allow beginners to ask for rounds when yeah so i've heard this you know like lower belts shouldn't

ask higher belts and higher belts can get you know first dibs and then choose i've heard that before but it really depends on the school right you just don't know any better so if you have a little bit of experience you know you can sort of ask the person in there right like hey how should i go upon getting rounds and some schools you know only the sensei, the teacher in the room, to allocate like, hey, you go with this person, you go with that person. There's no way to really know. So just kind of like sit back, take in the vibe. And if you have a question, ask, but be very concise and direct.

And that's always sort of best practices in terms of asking. I will say during Rundori, though, it's like when you're actually doing Rundory, do not talk. Right. Stop talking during Rundory. And I think the only time you should speak up and the people should be chattering during Rundory,

me versus you, you versus somebody else, is something that regards safety. Yeah. Watch your back over there. Oh, shoot. Somebody's about to land on land on you oh let's go back in bounds you know don't do tanya toshi please why did you kick me in the shin so hard you know uh that that's that's the only time you should be speaking in rin dori right no like oh that was a good throw or like, oh, you should have done this and that. Nothing.

No, because even, you know, that stuff, it's a blurred line, right? And there's guys in the dojo all the time. It's like they get slammed and they're like, hey, man, good job with that throw. And immediately what that person is trying to say is I gave you that throw. Right. I never expected you to throw me, but you did throw me. So good job, buddy. You know, and that kind of thing, you of thing gets taken the wrong way, obviously. Best not to say anything and be like, oh, shit, you got it.

Good job. And bow and then go right back at it. Because that's what you're there to do. If you're doing a three-minute roll, a five-minute roll, the time is so freaking limited. You could spend the entire 90% of the time going out of bounds, stepping in. Hey, good job buddy like hey try this instead doing judo going down missing throw like oh that was a shido ha ha ha

you know and like you're not really getting much out of it and distract from what you're actually trying to do right maybe all the person's like i'm trying to figure this technique out they need all the focus in the world to try to figure out the timing for a specific set thing and you know on the contrary of that it's like sometimes i'm trying to work my tomonage They need all the focus in the world to try to figure out the timing for a specific set thing. And, you know, on the contrary of that, it's like sometimes I'm trying to work my tomonage. And I get this tunnel vision of like tomonage, tomonage, tomonage, and not really seeing the other things that are available to me. That happens to a lot of people. So it requires a lot of focus and attention to like trying to balance all these things.

What is this person doing? Where are the gaps in his judo? And now this guy's like, ha-ha ha that osoto was right there for you and now it's like you know you're getting annoyed you're getting frustrated you're getting taken out of what you're trying to do right that's a good point you bring up because yeah sometimes people are purposefully not looking for certain techniques because they're focusing on other things yeah yeah you don't know that when you're working out with someone right it's like hey ochi right here look this is like right here ochi ochi it's like i'm not going for ochi i'm not looking for ochi right stop you know so it's like and it when there's a hierarchy too

and the person doing that to you is a little bit higher in rank than you all of a sudden when you talk back it's kind of like okay you know and the dojo norm is like hey don't talk back to your you know senpai or whatever it is right but it's like senpai was kind of being a dick day right so yeah it's very nuanced for sure right you know i you don't have the rule of like if it's not about safety yeah don't talk about it, right? It has to be about safety and don't ask questions during Rondori like, oh man, how did you do that Taiyo? No, forget it.

Make note of it and ask them after practice. Right, right. Right? That's a question for the bar afterwards. Like, hey, that Taiyo, that was sick. Yeah. Right? Not during the actual Rondori.

You get four minutes to do a round. Right. And talk about it for a minute yeah that that's a good segue into our next topic i think now we can move on to the the black belts how their etiquettes and then so we kind of started talking about how they how they should behave interacting with lower belts so you've you mentioned unsolicited unsolicited comments you know how this is comments yeah if they want to know you they'll ask you right and if they're kind of shy about it you could ask them directly hey you have any questions right yes no maybe spit it out buddy not in that not in that way but like yes no maybe there we go right and yeah i just want to drill

you don't know that until you ask them you know being in tune communicatively with the other person is huge right right and anything you say from a position of power can be misconstrued in the wrong way right there's an amplifying effect when you're wearing a black belt and then the other person's a lower belt because of the natural hierarchy i was talking about yeah so something as simple as like oh man rolling your eyes when the guy goes for a drop sanagi right right that may not mean much green belt to green belt but black belt to white belt yeah right it's like hey man i'm trying my best i've never done this before right it took all the guts for me to come to this dojo try to

better myself and now this guy that i really look up to peter you rolled his eyes when i went for a drop say i never do that but yeah so i you're kind of suggesting that i i my default mode is actually just keep quiet whenever like during practice i don't make i don't give any comments really unless asked to yeah so you think that's like the good strategy to go with i don't know you mean like you could be the positive reinforcement type of person right and you always want to be a value add to the room right because that's what you want for the person next to you in the next you next you you know but you can't really kind of go against your personality type if you're not a chatty person right you don't want to need to be forcefully chatty with anybody right but know

that when you are a higher belt you're naturally a leader in the room right so the way you speak to people really matter right it absolutely matter and i talk about microaggressions and as soon as people say microaggressions people like oh my god oh, here we go. Like, what is this? You know, democratic, socialist, progressive, whatever. You know, you could go that down that route. And, you know, sometimes, you know, you need to have tough skin and all this stuff. But it matters when you're wearing a black belt and the other person is not. It really, really, really does. And simple comments like, hey, man, don't hurt me.

OK, buddy. Like that is so freaking condescending right right get that guy out of the room right i'm serious it's like black belt i'm a black belt i've had value to the room no you don't if you're being condescending and talking to people in a way where that makes them feel bad right and it's amplified by the fact that you are in a position of power right you don't belong in that room right because you're a dick yeah right those it's yeah it's really not about like oh my god like you know that guy was so aggressive and punched me in the eye or anything it's just like those little comments that really

get amplified and you know it really they really discourage people from coming back even and trying harder it does man and likability is really important you know it really they really discourage people from coming back even and trying harder it does man and likability is really important you know because the nature of the sport right nature of judo it's grappling it's not like all right you know i make a mistake the person dominates me in this game of tennis and i lost 40 to 0 or whatever it is right or oh he beat me in basketball it's like oh he beat me he physically threw me on the floor choked me and then repeatedly pounded me right so like something like that plus some of these comments that can be made and misconstrued in a way can really you know eat away at someone's soul right i mean right and it's like that yeah the the those comments you know it's uh how about this one uh oh i've

only been doing judo for six months so like, I haven't done judo in two years. And I threw you a tile. Ha, ha, ha. I must be a genius at this stuff. I must be really talented because you've been training four days a week. I only come once a week. Ha, ha, ha. Get out of the room.

Get that guy out of here. I don't want him here. Right, right. That's really unnecessary, right? It's so unnecessary. And then I will say like hey you know you've heard me say it at the end of the class like please watch the way you speak to each other because it could be amplified it can be toxic right and it's that one comment and then

the next time that other guy makes another comment and before you know it's like this guy i don't like that guy and then you're already doing a sport where you know you're trying to fight out of mouth and you have the hand in the face or something like that and then the elbow gets grinded on the side of your chin and now all of a sudden you have those interactions that thing that's going on now with a little bit of the physical thing and you throw in the hierarchy of the belt system right then you got a disaster on your hands right all of a sudden it's an unsafe room because these two guys are trying to hurt each other that's another good point because these microaggressions are not physical in the beginning but they could escalate very easily into something physical itself into physical things right yeah and that you really really don't want that and you really want to

avoid it it's toxic it's like's like a cancer, you know? So, you know, you've heard me talk about this all the time. Right. Yeah. Right? How can you grapple with 40 people in the room with no one trying to hurt each other? Like, how does that even happen? Right.

Because of things like this. And, you know, I've asked people to leave the dojo many times. My father is notorious for that. You, get out. You know, he probably could my father is notorious for that you get out you know he probably could have done it with a little bit more you know tact probably tact then you know there's ways to approach that right but yeah that is uh because it's very important if you're yeah as a as an instructor head instructor if're very, if you show that you have almost zero tolerance for those kind of, that type of behavior, it kind of, it sends in the opposite way a good signal to other people that you value that, their safety, their mental health and whatever, what have you. And that really helps with the whole atmosphere.

And you know, we're all not perfect, right? And there's a margin of error and everyone should get one strike, two strike, whatever. And I'm guilty of it too sometimes. Right. Right? Yeah, I'm guilty of it. What about the aggressive comments?

No, I never do that. But like if I put down someone inadvertently oh because i i'm very uh i can't really show i always show what i'm thinking and feeling right and i can't really hide it so sometimes someone does something you know egregious or something like that it was like at a bottom day someone goes for a crazy flying armbar and it's just dangerous so bad and he like hurt himself and it's like oh my god jesus you know yeah and it's like i can't resist that kind of reaction because it's so i i just can't like right right it's a big thing yeah thinking and i'm feeling it it's gonna show like my in my physical language right berate him and say like oh that was garbage

i would never do that but like just like my body reaction, body language gives it away. So we're all responsible. We're all sometimes guilty of this. We have to stay vigilant, like everyone. Yeah. And while we're on the topic of black belts, you don't want to be the armchair quarterback from the sidelines. Right.

And it's the same thing. It's like, go for Tayo, go for Tayo. And what you're actually doing is like posturing and virtues not virtue signaling but signaling to the world like hey i know something that you guys don't know listen to me like i'm so insightful when it comes to this movement like listen to me like you know we don't need that either yeah yeah you're adding to the noise you know then that's really even so even when i'm not the recipient of those comments say i'm like going with another beginner and then someone else is on the sideline giving giving comments to that yeah lower belt like it's like it yeah it makes

me uncomfortable too like i mean i know that the the lower bell is trying his or her best i because i am going with her or him or her right now but it's i don't know it's just doesn't even sit well with me in my opinion yeah i mean it's different from the head coach in the room yeah right but it's the equivalent of like when i go coaching at a tournament if a kid is fighting and if i'm sitting in the coach's chair there should be one voice that's giving technical advice right everyone else who's screaming and putting their voice out there should be just reinforcement positive energy go for it you're doing. Just like words of encouragement, right? Because if I'm saying, put your left hand on first,

and this person's like, let that, cut that hand. Another person's saying, go for drop, say an Aggie, right? And I'm kind of like, he doesn't even do drop, say an Aggie. You know, like stop confusing him. Should I go for drop, say an Aggie? Should I not? Like, you know? Right.

You want to kind of avoid that, right? So, you know, and sometimes like i'm guilty of this too like uh luke is going with george and i'm coaching luke on the side and you know sometimes i'm coaching george and you know sometimes like i i can't help myself too but that's my job right it's my job to coach and teach and make them better you've you've made like prior arrangement with them like they wanted you to comment on their yeah yeah yeah tell me what i'm doing wrong and a lot of the times you know you can't really influence a person what they're doing during their ron dory anyway right if they're making a mistake constantly or an error right it's not going to change on the fly because i said

something right you know you use your leg and step to your left by two inches because it's a little too far it's like they're not going to listen to that and do it right that kind of stuff gets done during drills right fixing their drug did you step in too far close or too far out like we need to fix it we gotta drill this okay or you're attacking from when you're losing in position if you go for a soda when the person's dominant they're going to counter you right the easiest technique to counter if you're in losing position don't do it right i wonder what i say don't go for osoto it's like you have like nine other guys like go for uchi instead fake osoto and go for sasai it's like guys stop yeah you have to be mindful that the person is has it's his or her own agenda to practice like you know yeah we've got to we've got to be mindful that speaking of coaching it's like coaching the

other person while you're doing a mandori with them oh man yeah all right like dude you're doing good go for soto soto go for go for ah, go for it. Ah, good job. I think that's even worse. That's even worse, man. I remember being the recipient of that as a kid. And it's like, man, shut up. Yeah. It's like, you're just afraid that I'm going to slam you. Yeah.

That's the thing, right? If you're going with someone that you shouldn't lose to and they're about to throw you in front of everybody, that's the best defense mechanism almost, right just like pretend to coach them i know and it's like right i'm better than you you know a little pet on the back yep you got me buddy i gave it to you though it's because of my coaching that you're getting better. It completely just outstrips all the efforts the other person has put in. Yeah. Yeah, man. Just be honest with yourself.

Be honest in the dojo. Be authentic. Right. You got slammed because the guy's getting better. Yeah. That's okay. Right. I mean, I get it too, though.

I don't want to get thronged when I'm wearing my red and white belt. Yeah. I mean, it's so true. And now I think about it, I don't do it to other people, these unsolicited comments, but I do it to my brother. Oh, big time. You're so bad with David. I know. Maybe I shouldn't do that.

I thought he would like that. You and David, you guys have a special relationship obviously you guys are brothers right yeah like david's like trying and working out and all you hear is just you just i know screaming at him in korean and everyone's looking at each other like jesus christ i know maybe i i maybe i should stop doing that now i mean we're like we're not in the same city anymore but yeah it's but i i don't do it when i go with him i only do it on the side but i've done it with him too oh you think okay you keep and then one time i saw you coaching him as you're doing randori with him

and then you went for kochi and you rolled his ankle oh yeah i know uh i was like watching i was like man if i was david i'd freaking quit yeah good for him for sticking it up man i know he's i mean it's coming i think i mean that's the thing a lot of some people might think that i mean i myself too you know i thought i was doing it out of love you know right like i wanted to you are doing it out of love you know but you know the intention sometimes doesn't fully justify the outcome so yeah you gotta be careful yeah yeah and nothing wrong with that you know you you have a special place at the dojo too so like you get away with a lot more right but when people see that and there's a french guy in the room and there's another french guy going with somebody else

yeah then you get the French guy coaching in French. And then sometimes that happens with the Russian dudes in the room. Right. And now all of a sudden you sort of have this division of like the Russian guys are sticking together. And, you know, we joke around about like Korean top team because we had like six Koreans in the room at once. We joke about that stuff. But, you know, that stuff is real. Yeah.

And all of a sudden now, you know, the kid that's not Korean is like, oh, you know that stuff is real yeah and all of a sudden now you know the kid that's not korean is like oh you know like i'm not korean they're all coaching each other in korean i really don't want to go with a korean guy in the dojo because the entire korean top team is gonna be you know yelling at him to root against me and so that it it does really sort of cascade into a whole right yeah and with you it's a little bit different but with a lot of other people and i i that's probably an etiquette violation on my part i play favorites sometimes you know yeah well i know this i say this though you know in you know you you do yeah you do sometimes like i mean we're like best friends of what so you

always like give me a more pass than other people but you i have to say you did you have pulled me aside and say like oh peter you gotta go yeah you gotta go easy on this one of the worst violence i know i was i was yeah it's just because that's the thing it's not about the etiquette doing randori it's not just about those unsolicited comments it's's about the intensity you put in. Here's a Peter violation. When we have a guest, Peter tries to hurt him. I know.

I don't try to. I don't try to. I always try to throw the person. It's just the worst because it's like, all right, Peter, you're not like a massive dude. No. Your stats are like mid to lightweight. It's just the worst because it's like, all right, Peter, you're not like a massive dude, right? No, no. So your stats are like mid to lightweight. You know, you fought 66 at the last nationals that you took seventh in or whatever.

It was 66, right? 66, yeah, yeah. All right, so that's 150 pounds-ish. Yeah. All right, so you're a 150-pound guy, friendly, you know, wear your glasses right, and then a big strong dude comes in. The last person he wants to take a beating from is you right and not only does peter give him a beating he hurts him oh not intentionally but that's the thing it's not about the intention sometimes you know i heard this saying where uh you know we judge ourselves by intention but we judge others by their actions so

i i really it really spoke to me and because i tend to you know i i don't want to be wrong i don't want to think that i've done people wrong so but you gotta be mindful yeah and then i learned a lot from that those talks i mean it wasn't i i you know it wasn't i i props to you you know bringing that up you know but i think that's what it takes for uh the head instructor to foster this kind of environment you know you got to talk to people about those uncomfortable double-edged sword yeah right when a guest comes in and then he starts immediately trying to thrash your beginners or intermediate guys you have to kind of get on it right away right and if they're already coming in with a brown or a black belt they're pretty good right most of the time so then you have to kind of get on it right away. Right. And if they're already coming in with a brown or a black belt,

they're pretty good, right, most of the time. So then you want to give them, you know, someone whose skill level is pretty high, but someone that's not going to hurt them because then if they get slammed and, you know, beaten around, they're not going to come back, right? And we want them to come back. If they're a nice value add to the room and they're good people,

we want them there, 100%, right?'re a nice value add to the room and they're good people, we want them there. 100%. So it's kind of a tricky thing. And you know what I would say. Throw them once really hard in the beginning. And then just coast the rest of the round. Yeah. I think that's a good strategy.

That's a good strategy. Because then it's like next one, you know, you could like, okay, you know, he caught me once. Yeah. Right. Granted that there is that skill gap. And sometimes it's like a free for all where it where it's like oh man this guy came in and we've had guys like that come in you know i got off the plane from georgia now i came from the airport straight i was like where you stand he's like i don't know but i'm here for judo and with all the crazy cauliflower ears and whatnot yeah i had this guy like look this is me

at the championships in my country and then show me the thing he has like the metal and he's like big and strong and i'm like oh boy here we go that's straight to you man i can't i i don't i am i'm no enforcer for me then no no There's a system for guys like that. There's a system. First, you look them up on Judo Inside. Let's see what his record is. Right, right. And then you immediately know sort of like where they are on that world ranking scale. Right, right, right. And I could always take solace in the fact that if you're like a top 10 guy in the world,

you're not flying around going to dojos, local dojos, right? They're like on the circuit competing now. Right, right. So, yeah. And then, you know, you look at the weight class like oh i see 73 kilos you know 160 pounds division but he looks pretty heavy right now he's probably not that good shape or he hasn't really been training right he has wins against this guy losses there okay who should i put him with all right you know peter get in there like i try to tie him out and then you can step in later you know not even tired him out i'm just watching like okay right righty lefty like okay he's oh what moves does he have to the left

okay how's his grip in how's his nirwaza it's like oh his nirwaza not that good all right guys we're gonna do uh seven rounds of nirwaza nice yeah and then it's like all right who in the room is the best at brazilian jiu-jitsu all right that guy's a brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt he's a green belt in judo but we'll get him to go with him we'll squeeze him right right and then we'll demoralize him first with the choking and the arm bar right they won't get hurt right And then we'll demoralize him first with the choking and the armbar. They won't get hurt. Right? And then we'll do standing and then we'll get a heavyweight to come in. Right, right.

He's a little bit tired. And then sometimes, you know, they're like, Sensei, I went to go with you. That happens a lot. They call me out. That's an etiquette no-no to call me out. Right, right. An old man standing on the side it hasn't even warmed up yet yeah yeah right that's funny but by then i have enough i have enough you have all the information yeah

and i could survive with anybody for three minutes that's right so that so we we talked about you know the black belts the uh interaction lower belts and they're even like microaggressions forming clicks you know like that so you don't want you you black belts has a lot of responsibility to help foster this safe environment so now that we've kind of we started talking about visitors um you know we pointed one thing out like asking the head instructor to go with you whatever so what do you think uh visitors to uh to a dojo should be mindful of when they come in etiquette wise you know i always kind of find it's a little rude when the the visitor calls me out in front of everyone. Right. Sensei, you want to go or, you know, not in that way, but like Sensei Osu no Dori.

And it's like, man, you saw me not warming up this whole time. Like I'm freaking cold. You know, you're like eight rounds deep or whatever. You're warm. You're ready to go. You know, like that's kind of rude. Right. You know, but at most nine times out of 10, I will go.

I'll do it. Right. But like things like that, you know, calling out the head instructor, calling people out. Right. All that stuff. But like things like that, you know, calling out the head instructor, calling people out, right? All that stuff. And, you know, being polite is important because if you're coming in there trying to, you know, beat everybody, you're already sort of there kind of for selfish intentions, right? As opposed to like the visitor that comes in, you know, and it's like I want to find a new home to train and get better, right? How do I fit in here?

What is the culture like? Like it's a different kind of a mindset right you know so you recently visited dojo out there in detroit oh yeah i did yeah oakland university i hope you were polite i was i was i didn't you know i didn't make any unsolicited comments i was very respectful like i'm here guys i i won't you know it was a great club i had a lot of fun you know i'm hoping to go more often um yeah great group of people and um nice yeah it's it's yeah then when it's i always my default mode as a visitor is i just keep quiet i don't really i i'm usually a very chatty guy you know yeah but in when i visit a uh dojo i i just i don't really speak unless i'm spoken to yeah because it's just yeah because i don't know i i have to see what they're like you know and yeah you do yeah you

know we get a lot of uh visitors from overseas a lot of the times too like uh transient like i'm here for vacation i brought my gi right i teach judo in france i brought my gi you know i'm here on vacation with my girlfriend for two weeks like just want to get a workout in right i borrow a gi like there's guys like that all the time you know obviously right now it's a little bit different because the pandemic we're not really allowing that right during you know regular times that we got guys all over the world all the time. Every week we have like two or three different people from somewhere else. Yeah. Right.

Oh, here's another one. Right. Going in and always asking what the rates are and the fees are. Don't expect free judo. Right. Right. Right. Especially like in a city like New York, you know, when we have the mat is already full. Right. There's paying members. Right. Especially like in a city like New York, you know, when we have the mat is already full.

Right. There's paying members, right? To come in and expect like, I don't pay for judo. It's like, okay, that's too bad because everyone else is here paying. If you're coming in here and doing 10 rounds, that's 10 rounds that my students aren't going to get. That's not fair to my guys, you know? And, you know, the mat fee of $20, $30, whatever, that's not going to make or break anybody. Seriously.

If that's going to make or break you, then you have other issues going on. Right, right. Right? It's just like the principle of the fact that, hey, I'm here. I want to contribute. It's like, I didn't know how to pay for judo in my country because I'm a... Okay. Did you not pay $6 for a starbucks that you're

holding in your hand right there did you not go to soul cycle this morning and pay 47 for a spin class but you can't pay 20 for judo for a mat fee just to support our business like you know what get the hell out yeah yeah right so that's like the etiquette i went to jason morris's judo club back in the day and i was like, Jason, I'm here. What are your rates? And he was like, ah, don't worry about it. Like, no, no, no, seriously, I want to pay. I want to pay.

Whatever the month is, I'm only here for a week. I want to pay the full month just because it's just like a thing to show, right? I just want to pay it. And then he was like, ah, don't worry about it. But then I gave it to Terry or something, like the lady who was running it, his wife, right? Terry Takamura. And I was like, yeah, here it is, you know? And I remember that i remember that right and i was like that's just the right thing to do yeah right i went to jimmy pedro's dojo you know and stayed there for a year i paid monthly fees i did i was

like what is it i'm paying it i gave it to him in one shot i gave him six months in one shot right because i i don't want to you know it's awkward as it is right to discuss payment discuss money and a lot of the times there is no admin person at the front desk if it's a small dojo it's you and the sensei and their lifestyle depends on it just do the right thing twenty dollars if it's gonna make or break you you know what do you want like a red carpet invitation of like oh man thank you so much for blessing our dojo with your presence like you're a black belt i've never seen a black belt before like it's free like you know what we'll pay you money to be here it's like get out of here with that you know yeah and that's like a dojo etiquette thing that uh you know i live this right i've always you know once somebody

comments below like shintaro came to my dojo and never all all your all the skeletons come out now i think that that's good because it's uh you like you say it's awkward as it is and some some teachers you know they think they need to be generous to the guest and then that that's very nice of them but you know you have to be mindful that you know they it's that it's work for them. Yes, culturally, different places have judo that's embedded, government subsidized, right? Oh, black belts don't pay. Different places have different rules, right?

You go to Manhattan, you're paying Manhattan rent. Different story, right? Oh, sensei teaches judo at YMCA. He works a nine to five, whatever it is, and now he comes in and teaches judo from six to seven he loves it it's his passion he doesn't care about money at all right he doesn't even dojo's bleeding but it doesn't really matter right ah we're just happy that you're here uh come train with us that's fine right but still asked like hey what's the mat fee can i contribute right right you're paying seven dollars for a latte you know you can't you can pay the map fee yeah if you can't pay the map

fee you know maybe you shouldn't be you should be you know no i shouldn't say something like that you should 20 30 should not make or break you you know right and uh just asking is like and a lot of the times man you know me right yeah i really ever take guy comes in very nice now watch everyone gonna do this person comes in and their guest right hey what's going on what's your mat fee you know what is it like ah forget it just go out there just sign this waiver though yeah okay just in case you break a nail yeah you know right go out there go do your thing and sensei no i really want to it's like no i really don't worry about it man yeah right and i do it all the time it's like i would say like good 75 of the time kind of like ah don't worry about it especially if

they're only here for vacation right yeah or whatever it is like i'm okay with it and also if they're especially if they're polite and then their value add to the yeah their value add you know it's like right you've had tons of people coming through that you've gained a lot from yeah it's always styles of judo yeah right i want them there i like them you know i like guests right nine times out of ten right yeah right so and you want to be that person that's going to be every time i'm in new york you know chantaro welkins with open arms right why because they're polite they're kind and nice they're value-add they're not doing armchair quarterback stuff they don't micro

aggressively say condescending comments they always offer to pay that's what you want offering to pay it's like when you go on a first date right it's that your counterpart offers. When your counterpart offers to pay half, it's like, oh, shoot. It's like, okay, I was going to pay for the whole thing anyway. Like, I'm going to pay for it. Don't worry about it. You know, not like male, woman, whatever it is, but just the fact that you're offering is just kind of a nice gesture. Right. That says a lot about a person.

You can't. Yeah. You shouldn't try to expect things from others in that way like oh you're like some it's the sense of entitlement is also another etiquette thing yes the sense of entitlement yeah it's like i'm a black belt so what yeah i've seen so many black belts what do you want me to do right right roll out the red carpet like everybody come here and let's hear what he has to say because he's a black belt, right? That's right, right. So, then, and I think I also want to, so we have all those judo visitors,

but we also have visitors from other arts. We kind of touched upon it in the beginning, but especially, like, we've had a lot of visitors from BJJ and other, like, Krav Maga and all that. So what do you think, what kind of things do you think they should be mindful of coming into judo? You know, so a lot of schools don't allow crazy colored geese. And my dad was like that too, right?

If you came into the dojo with a black geese, he'd be like, get out. What is that thing? That's an abomination, right? But it's a different time. I'm a little bit more understanding about this kind of stuff. If you're wearing branding from other schools and things like this, right?

A lot of the times, if there's a polite person coming in with the proper etiquette is to say, hey, listen, I did judo at X, Y, and Z dojo. Like I have the gi and it's embroidered into my chest. Like I have no other gi. Like if you want,

I'll buy a new gi or whatever it is you know like seriously god bless you if you are that emotionally intelligent to ask that right right thank you yeah it's okay i don't mind i don't mind go ahead just train you know uh but just the fact that they would ask and just communicate that to me it goes a really long way right right right but if you have a blankie versus a gi with full branding like you're a nascar training you know nascar right then choose the more subtle gi right that's sort of the thing i don't come in with a rainbow gi yeah that's more that's a safer bet you know yeah it's just a safer bet you know maybe you don't know right but that's just uh you know and then when you're coming in it's like oh i trained this for that year is that for

this year and yeah i'm curious about what you know where you're coming from with your training background but you don't need to tell everybody in the dojo right right yeah you want to know what i used to do a lot of the times with my favorite thing it's like hey we have a guest here so and so can you come on up can you tell us your name and three things about you uh do you remember that yeah yeah yeah i i like that it's love that yeah it's so simple and concise uh-huh and right and then yeah it's just like uh yeah it's a good way to break the ice and it's but it's not long or long-winded anything like that it's some people get long-winded man right so that's that's another etiquette thing that you know like if they're going to be sort of compliant in the culture or not say hey can

you tell us everyone can you tell everyone your name and three things about yourself uh my name My name is Joe. Born in 1983. My father was a judoka. My mother was a judoka. I'm a judoka. I fought in the 1993 Junior Nationals. Took a first. Favorite move is tai toshi. It's like, bro, you already told us like 18 things about yourself.

Yeah. That's when, you know, somebody just starts freaking doing clapping. Oh, yeah, clapping. And then it's like, okay, thank you very much. Okay, thank you. Great job. That's one, two, three. Maybe you got to have that system in the, you know, Academy Awards.

They start playing music when they start going. Yeah, we do it. Yeah. Full-blown do it. Yeah. So that's definitely, you know, when you're a visitor, right? Introducing yourself and being concise about your introduction. Hey, I'm Peter, right?

I trained in New York. I'm here for now for my PhD. Done. Yeah. Oh, you're an interesting guy. If they want to know more, they'll be like, what are you studying? So that actually happened with this dojo. I kept it very short.

Oh, you know, I just moved from New York. Used to train with Shintaro because they all knew from New York. Used to train with Shintaro. Because they all knew you. So I used to train with Shintaro. Thanks for having me. And they're like, oh, tell me more. And then I just like went in a little bit more. So I remember that from that.

I remember that. Yeah, yeah. That etiquette stuff goes a long way, man. I hope you offered to pay the mat fee. So I was talking. So i have to be honest with this i i was talking to them and then like hey what you know can i come in and then they uh the teacher was very gracious i was very generous i should say gracious wow wrong man wrong what the red carpet for peter no no i meant to say i was gracious that he was very being generous that uh if i help teach you know uh yeah it's gonna be that's my mat fee you know

so i i helped teach i showed some moves actually uh you know the combination you like the koshigari and you know serenade and whatnot so it it worked out that way but i i that's a there was a mistake i may i should have asked offer first yeah but i missed i missed the chance because he offered first always offer yeah it's like it's twenty dollars it's like okay we're not gonna break you no exactly and then it's it's good wife's a doctor oh my god exactly exactly so you know it's it's it's a good uh it's you know not assuming and not expecting things from others and you know always offering and whatnot and yeah that's good that's that's one more thing about the etiquette is being too clicky, right?

You don't want to be too clicky. Right. You know, and it's natural for humans. When guests come, especially, yeah. Guests come, everybody, you know. And yeah, it's proper etiquette, right? I mean, you don't want to be, you know, that guy, that guy, you know. But it's tough to say with that because human

nature to be a little bit clicky yeah you want to stick to people you like yeah yeah i'm guilty of it too right it's like i'm standing at the corner of the dojo and i have three or four of my you know more favorite higher belt guys that i i kind of talk to a little bit more than the other people and you know i'm sure from an outside perspective i'm being kind of clicky and that's not very etiquette of me you know good dojo etiquette right and uh i think it's so that's why i've gone to yeah i mean it's and i mean you're i'm you're not bad with it or anything like that you're always inclusive but i think because you're on the end oh so i think that's that's what i was gonna say like the people who are in have more responsibility to reach out i guess that's true that's true

and then black belts especially like you said i mean they because of the power dynamics you they have more responsibility of culture yeah this is very important? Senseis can't get too drunk with their students. I don't do that anymore. You just can't do it anymore. Right? I mean, of course, different times, right? Right. Of like how old the sensei is matter, right?

Who I'm tapped in. And, you know, like there was a time like me, you, we lived in the same block. Yeah. My cousin lived on the same block, right? Everyone was in, you know know late 20s at the time everyone young professional i've known adam for 15 years right adam clapper right another one a great one you know i've known for 15 years we went to college together it's like all right you know

that crew right there's a it's we're like easy to grab drinks afterwards we're right and you know i didn't want to go when the beginners were being invited. Because that's a little bit inappropriate. Yeah, yeah. You got to draw the line. So it's like there's been times when you were like, oh, that guy seems cool. You know, let's invite him. And I'm kind of like, ah.

Yeah. I don't want to freaking throw down beers with some dude that's like, hey, man, weren't you just talking about like not saying mean things and stuff and now you're kind of ranting about something that's completely unrelated to judo that's opposite of my political views and you're very abrasive right now you know you're very aggressive the way you're talking about this idea right and then it escalates now all of a sudden we're at the dojo and i'm like he's got to listen to me now yeah exactly right in this setting so yeah that's a fine line and it's it is a fine line because you don't want to be seen like you're like trying to create clicks or anything like that but it's and it's easy to do that yeah you know we're human you know we're human and yeah i gotta i gotta watch out for that but now

you know i have a kid and everything i don't really and then now that you moved i'm already sort of you know it's different time now yeah right i'm getting older right i'm gonna hang out with uh you know 24 25 year old judo guys and go throwing down drinks and going to bar i mean not that you can even go to bars right now yeah anyway but some things to watch out for another you know a couple little notes on dojo etiquette right sensei to student is another one right it's a lot of different power dynamics and whatnot yeah so yeah yeah there's definitely a power dynamic there for sure yeah you know cool yeah i think uh this was a very uh important topic to talk about you know and yeah i think we glad i i'm glad that we had uh spent some we spent some time doing so so um to conclude do you have

anything else to mention no yeah i mean we skipped over hygiene and bowing and no shoes and stuff that goes without saying right that's like you walk in no one's wearing shoes you better not be wearing shoes right right right i've seen that before like oh look at that end of the mat that looks really cool over there guy walks on his shoes like hey man don't you not see like no one's wearing their shoes on the mat right right you know guy you know worked out on tuesday kept his you know dirty gi in the bag opened it up, dusting it off, putting it back. I was like, dude, you can't be doing that.

You do not see that everyone else has a clean gi. That goes without saying. But sometimes you have your blind spots. You have your mind on the world and the things going on in your life. It's easy to oversee that. But yeah, that's those things without saying. Wash your gi. Be as clean as possible because it is a contact sport and really you know watch the the body language and the communication skills

because that stuff can really really determine the success of a dojo yeah right and the success of you yeah you're coachable if you're likable people will help you and you'll get better faster yeah yep and then this is the best indicator for this okay guys grab a partner for rounds oh man no one do you want to go no oh you already have something do you want to work out oh all right i guess i'll just sit this one out uh-huh it's like no one everyone you know what you're the problem then right right right there's something you're doing that people don't want you want to be a eugene oh yeah everyone wants to go with you you can't you can't get uh you can't get around with him you have to you have to like schedule around him in advance like three months out it's like hey man

april 13th second round are you available and he's like yes i'm available it's like i'm booking that i'm booking that it's going to my calendar i'm sending you a google invite i know right he should be on the resi or something yeah he walks into the dojo it's like he's doing what you call me he by the time he's stretching he's already approached by like seven people by the time he's like stretching he's like hey do you want to drill me he's like oh man i'm gonna stretch five more minutes but i already have like nine people there's a waiting list i'm so sorry right right that's what you want to be like you want to be like yuji you know and because he'll never have a shortage of partners he'll always get better it's and it's just he gets to go with different types of you know judo and then it makes him better too you know so yeah you're in full control of your destiny if you're

like that because it's like my back hurts today i don't feel that strong today let me go with smaller lighter people and they're gonna want to go with you right right so give yourself that check right if you're the guy standing on the side like hey anybody, you have to take a look at yourself and be honest. Like, man, maybe I'm not. I got to really listen to this podcast and work on my dojo attitude. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, that was a good concluding remark. And thanks for listening, guys. And stay tuned for the next episode.

Thank you, guys. Have a good one.