The Shintaro Higashi Show - Grappling in Japan

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Grappling in Japan has a rich and diverse history, spanning judo, wrestling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, and even sumo. In this episode, Shintaro and Peter dive into the unique structures of these grappling disciplines in Japan, discussing their training systems, cultural differences, and how jiu-jitsu is rapidly growing as a hobbyist sport. Shintaro shares insights from his recent seminar in Okinawa and explores the potential for bridging the gap between Japanese and American grappling communities. They also touch on the lack of seminar culture in Japanese judo and wrestling and speculate on what could happen if Japan’s various grappling styles began to cross-pollinate. If you're interested in martial arts in Japan or the future of grappling, this episode is packed with valuable insights. (00:00:00) Introduction (00:01:32) Differences Between Judo, Wrestling, and BJJ in Japan (00:02:00) Japan’s Judo Training Pipeline (00:04:28) The Decline of Judo Participation After 25 (00:04:42) The Unmatched Efficiency of Japan’s Wrestling Program (00:06:17) The Popularity of Judo vs. Wrestling in Japan (00:07:28) The Unique Demographics of Japanese BJJ (00:08:33) Why BJJ and Judo Are So Separate in Japan (00:11:00) Shintaro’s Seminar Experience in Okinawa (00:11:41) The Lack of Seminar Culture in Japanese Judo and Wrestling (00:12:44) The Demand for American BJJ Athletes in Japan (00:13:59) Techniques Covered in Shintaro’s Seminar (00:14:29) The Future of Grappling Cross-Pollination in Japan (00:15:49) Possibility of a Seminar Tour in Korea If you're in business, then you have customer churn. Whether you're building a startup, growing a mom & pop shop, or operating in a fortune 500 powerhouse, Hakuin.ai measures, predicts, and improves your customer retention. https://hakuin.ai

obviously Japan loves grappling we know this judo wrestling judo now BJJ now BJJ and sumo very very different judo community BJJ community wrestling community extremely different hello everyone welcome back to the shintar higashi show Peter Yu today we're gonna talk about grappling in Japan, period. Not Judo, not Jiu Jitsu, not wrestling. Grappling, period! Yeah, so I think this topic came up because of your recent trip to Japan. You had a seminar and then you saw what's going down on the streets. Yes, yes. And if you guys have any ties to Japan, I'm looking for a reason to go back more So I want to do more seminars over there. Jiu-jitsu is blowing up in Japan right now. BJJ BJJ

Yeah, so I feel like I can potentially be the bridge between the Japanese Brazilian Jiu-jitsu community and the American Brazilian Jiu-jitsu community because yes, they love Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, but they're not bringing in Portuguese guys from Brazil They don't care about those guys. They're not visible. They care about American BJJ athletes they speak English which they sort of can understand Yeah, I have no clue what they're saying in Portuguese, right? You're the perfect person because I'm the perfect boss I see you both languages. Yeah, and only that, you can speak grappling too. Can speak grappling. So I want to be the guide to do that.

And obviously, Japan loves grappling. We know this. Judo, wrestling, now BJJ, sumo. They're very, very different. Judo community, BJJ community, wrestling community. Extremely different. And sumo community too, right too right yeah sumo is a completely different animal so can we can you kind of actually that's very interesting can you do

some like comparative studies yes like how they are they're gonna be peer-reviewed we might maybe there's something we can publish so judo yeah you do it as a kid. Yeah, you get really good at it. You get identified There's a dojo everywhere every elementary school kind of does it during gym and etc. Etc. Maybe he's middle school Yeah, but once you're good at it, you do it in middle school. You do in high school There's after-school teams, right? They don't have like fall season spring season like they do in the same year around all year round you pick something you do it I'm in band that you do band the whole time. I'm in baseball, I'm on the baseball team.

You're doing baseball all year. It's the club activities, right? Yeah, so middle school, high school, that's it. You're in, mostly high school, right? But middle schools have judo programs, and they take it, like for instance, Kukushikan University and the systems that I came from they recruit elementary national champions All over the country all over the country they identify all the top elementary school kids

And I'll never forget their number one recruit when I was there and when I was like in college Yeah, it was this kid 150 kilos this kid was 340 pounds. Holy shit. Yeah freak of nature 12 years old 12 yeah 12 years old yeah he just won the elementary school nationals he's tall too probably pretty tall yeah not not really tall but like taller than me at the time yeah humongous and that kid came in as a seventh grader to the middle school program and they have a dorm that's where you stayed yeah we had a little school floor high school floor they are away from home 95% of the year they get holidays maybe they get to go home right that's it from

seventh grade on their full blown doing judo right like it's just such a well developed system yeah that's that's tier one And then you also have like the tier two judo schools where it's like, alright You have regular kids go to school commuting they do after-school judo and then they go home to their families I see I wish guns at home of the animal, right? So you got that you get like, you know kids who do judo in high school dabblers Then there's a university and then there's the professionals But the volume of people doing judo is like elementary school, middle school, high school, and then it shrinks down,

just like American wrestling. It's very similar in culture to American wrestling. They have two million people doing it in Japan, judo. And then the cream of the top of the line just gets filtered through everything. Yes, yes, it's a sheer volume game. Yeah. So that's kind of the system and then after a certain age, 25, the people who were doing Judo shrinks down rapidly from a percentage standpoint and now all of a sudden there's not that many people doing it past 30. No hobbyists. No. They're out there teaching and stuff but they're not actually doing it. Wrestling, similar structure but a very very narrow pipeline. I'm talking when you get to the senior level they

have two or three thousand wrestlers that's it in the whole country. So does it have the same as big as a base? No, nowhere near it It's the most minor thing I see But they produce so many champions Completely different How What do you think How are they doing it without the number?

That's the thing man, no one really knows It's like the training, the practice, they have all these little fundamental things Cross-pilations between like judo no no very second So it's a cool little they say they have 12,000 joke that are registered members in the USA for us Yeah, you know for judo. Yes, you know you know everyone knows you I said judo is not doing very good on the international circuit Yeah, so you take that you divide it by like four You make it even smaller right right, But then you put them out in the World

Championships and they win seven gold medals. That's what Japan is doing with wrestling. We got to study that, man. Like that's my bottle. It's not like, oh my God, they're superstars in Japan. No one knows these guys. Huh. I mean, yes, if you win the Olympics, you get Olympic clout, people know your name name right like this, but no one knows Who's at the Japanese national championships? There's nobody in the crowd is dead, right? Literally, yeah the all judo judo championship. It's like sold out. You go to all Japan judo championships in April I think it's April 29th this year or every year it is April 29th The only is on TV a full- April 29th. The Unlimped is on TV.

A full-blown production, the thing is packed, everyone going nuts, people watch it, people follow it. Average people know. Oh, all Japan's just happened, you know? Wrestling, nowhere near it. Wow, we might have to dedicate like, That's crazy. How dominant Japan is despite the wrestling. there's a video of Kabib now

yeah this one is going around social media oh I got my man wrestling you have Iran USA and Russia now there's fourth country man Japan oh yeah so it's like a real real thing they're a powerhouse all the American wrestlers now they recognize that they know about it They're like, how are they doing? Yeah, should we study them shoot? Can they replicate it? The women always had super success The men not so much but has in the last five years. No Japan. Oh in Japan. Oh, yeah, I see Oh, yeah No, a male a lot of the male athletes are winning. They were never the lightweight males were some of them. That was it. I see now the dominant So take down. Yeah Brazilian jujitsu. Yeah exactly average age 40

Guys who never really did you know before oh So it's not just I was expecting a lot of the ex judo guys would do it no It's easy. I mean little by little yeah, yeah as the thing grows you're gonna get guys who've done judo filtering in yeah But right now they're primary demographic People who never really grappled After work, they're going it's a hobby sport And it's huge some major actors in Japan who are like in their 30s and 40s started doing jujitsu openly so now all of a sudden

it's this thing jujitsu is fun you go after work and then classes start late 8 p.m. whatever it is so it's all it's a whole new hobby class right right right and you know Japan with their hobbies they go really deep into it they are really deep into it so now they're caving to a completely different demographic opposite of judo oh I thought yeah okay so this do BJJ and judo are pretty separate in Japan dude there's no crossover and you if you watch YouTube yes there's something like oh what happens when a jiu-jitsu guy and a judo guy yeah but they still haven't figured out to a point where the judo guys will no crossover, and if you watch YouTube, yes, there's some like, oh, what happens when a Jiu-Jitsu guy and a Judo guy are in the house?

But they still haven't figured out to a point where the Judo guys will do seminars for BJJ guys. In Japan? In Japan, but they're teaching Judo fundamentals that are absolutely zero application in BJJ. Right, you talked about that a lot, yeah. And when I actually did the seminar, guys' minds were blown over there.

Oh my god. I thought you do Uchimata like this. No way. You don't do Uchimata like that in Jiu-Jitsu. You just don't. Maybe Judo fundamentals, yes. And even the high level Judo guys don't even do those fundamentals.

There's a video going around, I don't know if you saw, about how Uchimata is a notorious example of how the traditional way Yeah, yeah, I heard I was clipped into that video. I saw that I almost on reddit someone Yeah, you were clipped into so yeah, yeah send me the video And I was used as one of the bad examples, but you see that's the thing right I teach Uchimara like 20 different ways Yeah, you are just doing the traditional. Yeah, it's just showing the tradition

People they don't know come do judo with me. I'll kick the shit out of you. You know well He this guy did win a bronze in What year living? Oh? He was a Joe Juno. You know Joe Juno. Do you know the twins from Korea? Well, I think it was like 2016. Oh forget that. Are they heavyweights? No, no, no. Bro, forget it. Forget it, bro. They're lightweight. Get out of here.

66 I think. I'll beat the piss out of those guys. 60? Somebody was like, oh you know you gotta do a response. I was like, whatever dude. That's why I didn't send it to you right away. I didn't want to be like, oh we we're all both bad you know what I mean I just did say some things but I will send it to you you know that's that yeah

anyway so BJJ is separate that's a very interesting you know like these cultural things and it's just defy your common understanding. It's crazy. So let's kind of go maybe talk about your seminar in this context. So which gym did you go? It's not a judo gym. It's a BJJ gym. Also BJJ gym, yes. They rented a judo gym because they were anticipating a lot of people coming.

And then it was in Okinawa. That's interesting because in America, judo gyms will rent BJJinawa. That's interesting because in America Judo gyms will rent BJJ gyms. That's exactly right. Yeah. It's the reverse in Japan. Yeah. And then I had other another gym also in Tokyo that I was gonna do. Carpe Diem is like the name of the franchise. Yeah, I'm a fan of them. Yeah, they're pretty big. But the main one in Tokyo that didn't go through, the guy just had a baby with his wife so he's like a postponer. I was like sure, no problem. So, but yeah, the thing goes to the guy just had a baby with his wife, so he's like, can I postpone it? I was like, sure, no problem. So, but yeah, I was able to get a lot of intel about the Jiu-Jitsu community from over there,

from this guy, and it's definitely grown. There's gyms that have 300, 400 members out there. There are mega gyms out there with people who are paying to do it, and then there's a seminar culture. In Judo in Japan, there's no seminar culture. Yeah. None. Cause there's like a set pipeline, so you just learn from that. You just learn from that,

and then your sensei says, your guy says, hey, I know you just won the Olympus, but go do a seminar at this gym, and then they'll buy you dinner, and they'll give you a little bit of pocket change. It's not really a, all right, let's charge $100. It's a service, right. I see charged $100, it's a service, right? I see.

You know, so it's like, they're not flying in, technicians and all this stuff, you know what I mean? Now, in Japan, all these champions who are wrestlers, they're being flown into the United States to do 7-in-1s. Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah, and I was part of that. I was able to translate for Ray Higuchi,

who won the Olympics, and that was a really cool gig. I'm not a translator by any means, but for that specific purpose, I was the person that was the best. There's no seminar culture in Judo in Japan. There's not a lot of seminar culture for wrestling. Brazilian Jiu Jitsu community loves seminars, but they want to do seminars with American champions. People who are very knowledgeable, very interesting. I see.

And I kind of sort of fit into that person that can connect the two worlds. Right, right. So that's where I think, and if you guys are listening and watching, and if you have a place for me me to kind of help I would love for you to contact me because then I would love to help you. I'm trying to find a way to do more work with Japan you know I'm Japanese obviously yeah yeah that's my new thing it's my new thing. I think Korea is kind of similar I think I heard that BJ is huge in Korea now too. Huge huge someone just said that to me too over there. Like, you know Korea?

And one of the guys that were there was a black belt from Taiwan. Oh, okay. He runs a BJJ school in Taiwan. And he flew over from Taiwan to come to the seminar. I see. Actually like 70-80% of the guys at that seminar that I just did in Okinawa were black belts. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's a lot. I just did in Okinawa were black belts. Oh Wow, yeah, it's a lot pretty cool a lot of black belts Yeah

Really cool. I was like wow that's amazing You know yeah, so they kind of want to figure out what I was gonna show like what kind of thing You know me talking about whatever it is and it was really give us a little like glimpse of what you taught Yeah, mostly like yeah level, front and back, gripping, distance, side stepping, angling, feinting, misdirection, uchi-mata, for jujitsu guys, how can you instill and force a reaction by showing guard pulling, etc. etc. how that works with kochi, leg grabs, things like this and by the end of it dude they all look like world champions. Nice. But yeah the Japan grab Japan grappling they got a good teacher

yeah yeah but yeah they have wrestling judo Brazilian jiu-jitsu and each one of those communities look extremely different but if they got together and eventually they will eventually they will right produce some monsters it's gonna be over man it's gonna be over, man. There's a huge MMA culture too, right? In Japan. They love MMA. It's ripe for a lot of these cross-pollination.

Once they figure out, we all need to do seminars, we all need to do these things. Even in Judo and wrestling world. I think technically, the best J jujitsu is in the United States I believe this yeah, I think so yeah, so you get some of these guys, and you know my idea is like all right Let's just say for instance. They want to bring in Brian like they know because they watch the video some while they buy fanatics videos Yeah, so they're watching Brian licks VJJ fanatics video they want to bring him in yeah guess what he doesn't speak Japanese

What is he gonna get around on the subway and the trains and is it yeah? You got a fly fly you up. I'll go with him. Yeah, I'll do a seminar He does a seminar will just a little bit of a tour. You know yeah same thing. I want to bring JT I don't get you towards like he lives down the street. You know what I mean? We're boys, I train under his gym. Let me bring JT over there, right? Should I use this as an excuse to go to Korea with you? I don't speak Korean.

Oh, yo, that could be good. Yeah, I'll speak Korean. You gonna set that up? Yo, you set that up. I have to say, yeah, maybe I'm going to Korea next week, so maybe I'll like look into it a little bit If you could call all the Korean gyms Like listen, I can push and throw out we'll go together Because I know okay. Here's I'll tell you the there's a big judo guy on Instagram Korean judo guy

I love I follow him and and I saw his follower this he follows you he likes your videos and stuff Yeah, so I maybe I'll reach out to him I got so much clout now dude on the internet. It's crazy. Yeah, dude. I want the stretch labs. You ever this thing? It's like a flexibility gym. Oh, I didn't know. Yeah, it's one-to-one stretching It's just all it is and I went and then the guy who I got assigned to right? He's like, yeah, you look familiar man Who I got assigned to right? He's like you look familiar man Yeah, I don't know. I'm just a regular dude stretching me stretching me like you grapple like your years You know, I think I follow you on internet. He's like shit. Oh my god. I know you're the guy right now I'm like, yeah, yeah, and it turns out there's two other jujitsu guys in the in the stretch

Right. So now they're like talking about it and then they Go on Instagram and then they're like, oh my god, we all fall asleep already and then they're talking about it. So now they're like talking about it and then they Go on Instagram and then they're like, oh my god, we all fall this guy ready and then they're talking about it So now I follow stretch labs that I went to on the internet So now everyone in the gym is like, oh shoot like this is guy has such a huge following and then I went this morning And I was assigned like another lady this morning and I was assigned like another lady because I signed up the thing and you know she had a time slot and then she was like everyone's so excited you're here everyone's been talking about you and I was like that's like oh that's so cool you know yeah wow I mean even I get recognized oh yeah yeah

people know you man when I go on these trips and they say I love the podcast they reference you all the time Yeah, I'm glad you guys like it cuz I you know, I just like I never intended to be like popular or anything like that Yeah, when did how? You tell me later, I think I know why you're gonna say something about hair plugs, yeah I think I know what you're gonna say. What? Something about hair plugs? Yeah, I'm sure. We already talked about it, you know.

I think one time in Turkey, someone legitimately said that to me. Like, you know, Peter used to be bald, right? I was like, yeah. I was bald, I got a transplant in Korea. He got a transplant in Korea. He got the transplant, right? I was like, yeah. How's his hair looking now? I see it on the internet.

How's it in person? Like, like what about back here and stuff, you know, and I'm like, it's good I mean, I haven't seen the back of his head in a little while Yeah, you saw me recently when you came to Michigan. Yeah, I guess I did change my hairstyle You know for the guy you should turn around and show us the back of your head It's thin back there bro It's thin back there bro. He made another one. Maybe I'll think about it. Anyway, so interesting stuff. Grappler in Japan. It's always cool to contrast and compare. And if you have contacts there, please hook me up. I want to go there more. And thank you to our sponsors, Drew.

If you have a company, customer churn is a huge issue. Check out hackween.ai, H-A-K-U-I-N.A-I. That's what Drew does to his company. Sponsor of a company. He analyzes data-driven approach to combat customer churn. Yes, exactly right. Thank you very much, Jason. Thank you very much, Levan. thank you very much Jason thank you very

much Levan thank you very much judo TV you can watch all international judo Federation events you could watch the new rules seminar yeah on judo TV calm use discount coach and Taro and also thank you to myself hey gosh you brand that calm yeah we're sponsoring, aren't we? You briefly mentioned that you have an exciting collab coming up Yeah, with Fuji. We're gonna merge and do some stuff together There you go, man. Thank you very much everyone for listening Yeah, thanks guys and we'll see you guys in the next episode.