The Shintaro Higashi Show - History of Kokushi Budo Institute

Episode Date: January 4, 2021

In this episode, Shintaro recounts the history of his dojo, Kokushi Budo Institute, and tells a fascinating story about the Higashi Family and the American Dream that spans decades from war-torn Japan to the bustling streets of New York City. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone, welcome back. Thank you for tuning in. Today we're going to talk a little bit about the history of Kokushibudo Institute and Judo in New York City. That's right. So a lot of people are very much interested in your dojo and how it came to be Kokushibudo Institute. And I know a little bit, and I know it's really the history of the Higashi family. And that really starts with your father, Nobuyoshi Higashi. Yeah, people are very curious about my father. Right, he's a... Right, he's like the most popular thing

on my YouTube channel. I know. Right, they're like, bring him back, and I keep trying to get my dad back. Hey, Dad, can you come film more stuff with me? And he's like, nah. He's kind of camera shy, I think, or he's very private.

Yeah, he's not very good at doing it. Yeah. You know what it was? He used to make videos, instructions, way before video instructions were cool on like vhs tapes oh he would bring it home and we would watch it as a family and we would make fun of him that's probably why you guys gave him a trauma yeah so yeah it's it's great you know uh yeah let's talk about it yeah so how let's just start from the beginning.

How did your father start judo? When did he even start? My father is 83 years old. He grew up in farmland in Japan in the south in Kumamoto during World War II. World War II ended in 1945. He was born in 1937. The war ended when he was 8 years old. His father was off in the war. He was very in 1937. So the war ended when he was eight years old and his father was off in the war and it was very, very poor. And he lived near an airport. So there would

be bombings and it was really mess. It was a big mess. And he just got into judo at that young time, right? And he started going to the local dojo and he was doing it. And then he would wake up in the morning and help with the farm 5 a.m. He would help with the farm and then he would go to school and then he would do after school judo training and then he would go to the local dojo after that so he had a really he tried at school and on another local dojo yeah so like in high school and stuff you would do the after school judo team and then judo practice would end at 6 30 or 7 p.m and then he would go to the the city dojo or sometimes he would go to like the police dojo police academy dojo at night oh wow and then he would uh you know walk home in the middle of the night you know pitch black right no street lights

no war-torn japan like what a cool thing right i love hearing about this stuff right i'm gonna tell it today i'm gonna tell it to people who love the stories so how did he why did he choose judo like what's what was it like was there like a was it a serendipitous thing or did he want to do it did someone else in the family do it or uh you know my grandfather did kendo and he was always into martial arts in some form or another and i think that had some kind of an influence on him right but you know he was really really fast at running i see a fast sprinter even as like a elementary school kid he was the fastest kid in the school you know not in the school in his grade and then he just kept doing it and they wanted to recruit him for the track team and you know he was kind of rebellious and then when he got into middle school, where they take athletics very seriously in Japan,

they're like, you have to run on the track team. My dad said, no, I'm doing judo. Oh, okay. For some weird reason, I think. And he had already touched upon judo, but then he just kind of went with it and he got really good. And then, you know, he went for it, you know, and that's what he did. And were there a lot of competitions, like organized competitions back then too or yeah i don't really know i've never really asked him i know he competed as a high schooler and then because he had a good record uh he went to college

and during that time it was nuts because he was in middle school and you know he had four or five siblings and you know it was a tough time for everybody right because of the war and you didn't have to go to high school right right right so the required education was middle school so everyone in his family was like higashi you know nobiyoshi right you're not going to high school you're going to stay and do judo uh you're going to stay and help the family farm right they were rice farmers right but it was tough because they got bombed and there was no more rice farms so you know he told his mom like hey mom like i really want to go to high school i really want But it was tough because they got bombed and there was no more rice farms. So he told his mom, like, hey, mom, I really want to go to high school.

I really want to go do judo. And the mom was like, all right, sold off some land, did judo. And then when he was very good, he actually went to agricultural high school so he could help with the family farm as a rice farmer. And then after high school, they were like, hey, come to Kokush university you know they're the number one university for judo all over the world right arguably right uh they're definitely top four every year in japan uh they said hey gosh you come to judo they weren't that good supposedly back in the day but they were like come to tokyo and do judo and everyone in the family were like absolutely not you know you have no money you have to help with the family farm you have siblings. You have to help support them. My grandfather just came back from the war,

and it was a tough time for everybody, rebuilding the economy, rebuilding just Kumamoto. And then his mother was like, son, we're going to do everything we can and sold off more rice farms and then sent him to college wow so he had no option but to keep training and doing it right you know and then he it was always understood like okay after college you're gonna come back and take over the family rice farm right you're a rice farmer and my dad was like nah so that must have been crazy like so you you still have family in kumamoto yeah yeah they're a big family my father has a big family you know my mom's from kagoshima So that must have been crazy. So you still have family in Kumamoto? Yeah, yeah.

They're a big family. My father has a big family. You know, my mom's from Kagoshima. I know we're not really talking about it today. But yeah, they're all over there. I only have two cousins here, Ken and Eugene. You guys all know Eugene from my videos. So then, so he just your with his mom's support uh he goes to off to tokyo to go to kukushikan and did you guys ever talk about that experience like doing judo in college yeah

back in the day yeah doing judo in college you're just doing every single day doing judo right uh crazy hours they had no research on concussions or injuries or you know even water breaks wasn't a thing you know back in the day in his day it's like oh man i'm so thirsty we're doing a four-hour judo practice can i go get some water that wasn't a thing you didn't drink water and they thought you know that all you had to do was replenish your electrolytes electrolytes to them was salt so they would take salt breaks they would do judo for like two hours it's like alright guys go take a salt break

and they would walk to the side where they had this wooden thing and they would grab salt like handful of salt or a pinch of salt and then put it in their mouth and then go back on the mat which is probably the worst thing you could do we know this now they didn't know it back then I remember you telling me that

he like he blew his knee out and then back then they didn't know how to fix surgically fix that so he like used like bike tire tubes to stabilize his knee or something so yeah he was doing judo and then you know there's so many people on the mat someone threw someone into back of his leg when he was facing another person doing judo right and you just can't help uh injury like that right so the some of the worst fears you know as a judo teacher and he blew out his acl but they didn't really have like mri machines this and that so you know you would let it heal what they would do is take the inner tubing of a bike tire and they would wrap it around their knee like knee wraps and then he did judo that way my god and then uh years later years later you know when he

was in the united states he got an mri and the doctor was like oh both the acls are torn you know did uh did he get him fixed eventually or no he didn't he just stuck it out my man i don't know how but you know i guess you could it scars over and you build the muscle around it right when people could do it it was a different time yeah you know what i mean and how was the competition i know back then they didn't have weight classes that's what yeah they didn't have weight classes that wasn't a thing you know one of the competitions that he was the most proud of was winning the sort of inner collegiate tournament like within the school, right?

Because it was such a competitive school. And then they have a tournament system, no weight classes, and he won it. So he was a top dog in Kokushikan University. And, you know, Kokushikan University is history rich with Olympic athletes and judoka like Ishii's from there, Suzuki. They produced tons of Olympic goldic gold medalists so they've always had a very tough program and he said when he won that tournament you know he was very very happy because he was small he's 180 pound guy and kukushikan's known for their heavyweight program

so they're big people and i can't assume that there were a lot of big people back then because of the war and right at the time of japan like i can't imagine that there were a lot of big people back then because of the war and the time of Japan. I can't imagine them having 300, 400 pound people. Right. But it's still a big feat. Yeah. That's one of his most proud moments. And he fought on the team many times. And I think he was the captain his senior year.

So all those things were, yeah, all those things are very you know good stories yeah i remember i i remember asking him about his tokui waza and he said he did have to because he wasn't a big guy he had to adjust his uh uh techniques a little bit to accommodate for that hopefully he'll show show us that uh his tokui waza channel soon. Yeah, that's right. He had a really cool attack system. It was very brute force. It was very, you know, it's a different time, right? It was grip and go.

So there was no gripping. It was just like grab him and attack him. So, you know, you had two hands, double collar, Harai, Kochi, both sides, drop, you know, soto's both ways and just take the knee out and try to you know hurt the other person almost you know it's that kind of time and yeah and um i know it's for a lot of people who do brazilian jiu-jitsu kind of talk about the lineage of like oh you know all that so i and having gone to kokushikan university your dad has a cool very cool and you you also have cool lineage in a way you're like they always trace back the lineage to

kano right because it's and then a lot of the brazilian jiu-jitsu guys are like okay kano maeda and then maeda taught you know helio or whichever gracie and then you know oh lookio or whichever Gracie. And then, you know, oh, look how close we are to the top. Right. My father learned from Mr. Aida, who was one of Kano's earlier students. And so, you know, he's only two removed, right? It was like Kano, Aida, Higashi Sr., and then me. So that was the thing, you know, when he came to my dojo, it's like that was like a big, you know, it's not a selling point really, right?

Because people come in, it's like, look how closer you are to the top you know that guy on the picture on the wall and people don't really care right they're like who the who the hell cares about kano and aida if you're not if you're beginning off in judo right but the people who know you know judo people who know the history of martial arts and people who kind of like that sort of stuff they go crazy for they go gaga for it yeah so i think i think it's a it's a very cool piece of history there like the fact that it's so close to kano the original or origin of judo so so your dad went to kokushikan captain champion of the school yeah met mifune you know oh wow mifune yeah there's a picture of him you know mifune teaching and then there's a picture of everybody just sitting there like

100 judo guys right it's black and white my dad has the dirtiest gi in the room i was like man you didn't wash your gi you know my dad's like dude i trained that hard you know what i mean i was like yeah right but like it's mifune teaching and then my father just sitting there watching him as a young you know collegiate kid he's jacked yeah what a cool picture right you know and you see some of it today you know when i see him walking around and still pretty jacked for an 83 year old he is yeah yeah he's in good shape he's in good shape and now so after college did he call and then he somehow ended up in the States. So what did he do after college? So he was a coach.

Yeah. Right. He was a coach for Kukushikan University. They take young coaches and then they stick around and they just beat the piss out of the freshman, sophomore, the young group of guys. And then he was a coach for two or three years. And then they had a global initiative to spread judo across the world. And they approached some of the top coaches, young coaches. And then my father was like, okay, we'll do it.

And then he was able to make a living and send money to my mom, to my grandma, his mom, and all that stuff. Wow. So it it's big opportunity for him i see so he because you know having heard what you said about his family like wanting him to come back home and help out with the yeah with a farm it must have been a big decision to come to the states for him yeah like yeah big decision because he was very his you know i don't know my grandmother she passed away uh before i was born but from what he tells me she was an amazing lady she was sweet she worked hard you know she was working the rice farms you know right uh especially when my grandfather was off at war and he came back

he had some injuries and all these different things. She really worked the rice farm. Yeah. I mean, can you imagine raising five kids and working a rice farm 24-7? You know what I mean? And your dad came to the States in what year? 1963, I want to say. Right.

1963 i want to say right and 1963 my my parents came to study in the states in like in the 80s but back even back then my parents were like yeah it was kind of going off to mars or something because yeah you know the international form was too expensive so they would write letters back to korea but i can't even imagine how it was like back in the 60s Yeah, man, he lived through the 60s And he was in Manhattan in a very dangerous part of town Right Even in the 80s and 90s, it was still pretty dangerous Right

And then he went through that And what a story Right So he came in 1963 Yeah, or 62 62 one of those yeah yeah and then so how did he end up at the location now under uh the basement of the church the buddhist church so back in the day when they had the global initiative to spread judo it was government subsidized and then the university would pay for it and then so so it was Kokushikan University, New York.

Just like Temri has a branch in LA, like Temri, LA. I see. So that was sort of the thing. And they sent about probably a dozen teachers to the New York, New Jersey area. And they sent them all over the globe. Young, tough judo athletes just teach judo. And they were getting paid by the government and the paid by the university they were on salary and then i see there was already sort of a dojo in place in the church

i see that because my actually very interesting side story like my mother's side of the family the great great uncle started that new york buddhist church in the 1920s or 30s oh okay okay yeah and he loved martial arts right he was like i'm just gonna put a dojo down there and he kind of had like a little mini dojo running downstairs in the church yeah so there was someone there before um and then my father came there you know and it became kukushikan university new york uh-huh they had a deal new york buddhist church and kukushikan university had a sort of a deal and then it became a thing in 1963 yeah and then like it's and it wasn't just him like you said like there were uh a lot of the japanese judo teachers around the tri-state area

came together you say came together you know right around that same time mr matsumura who's a legend in new york judo right who built tons of Olympians like Tamek alongside my father. All these guys came and Mr. Matsumura taught there too with my father. I see. They lived above in the church in a small closet apartment. They were on salary and they would just spend all day just teaching judo. And they would just spend all day just teaching judo. They would be in the basement and they said like it wasn't like a structured class like where six to seven is adult class, two to three is kids class.

People just roll in all throughout the day and be like, hey, you want to go? You want to roll or you want to teach or you want to just do live? And my dad's like, yeah, sure. And people would bring him sandwiches and stuff. So he would eat a sandwich, like do judo. And then like five guys come and then he would work out with them. And, you know, they sort of had this like loose schedule. I see.

Of course, the evening class is the most popular because it was later at night. Right. People come after work. But that went on for years and years and years. I see. And then you came into the picture. well yeah there's a lot that happened during that time too you know uh the income was not so good obviously because you're not charging for memberships or something like that and you know the judo guys didn't really run it like a

business they ran it as oh i'm a salaried employee of the university i see right and the whole goal is to spread judo anyone want to come and learn judo they could learn judo that was sort of the system right so money was tight you know especially with the dollar being so strong and it just wasn't that much money uh and then eventually i think he started doing privates and started taking on little jobs here and there and started sending money back to japan i think i remember he was saying you know it was so tight uh his mother who was supporting him throughout this entire time right you know died passed away and he couldn't even afford a plane ticket to go back to japan oh my god yeah so it was like such a heartbreaking thing not to

like bring down the mood of this podcast but you know that's the right you know struggle you're right in the 70s you know you're doing judo all day, morning to night, you know, throwing people, slamming people, grappling people just all day and night and you just have no money. Did he start teaching at Stony Brook around this time too? He did. Yeah. I think he, you know, wanted to be a little bit more diversified, right? So he went out and got himself an education. diversified right so he went out and got himself uh uh education he went to nyu and got a master's degree there in physical education which was kind of crazy because he didn't speak any english right

you know and he was very impressive uh you know that he really taught me the value of hard work not that i'm a hard worker now you know you are you are no but you know he had this thing of like you know i would take these textbooks and memorize them. And I would have no idea what the questions were. I would read the questions and not understand it. So I would just start writing what I read and memorize in the textbooks. And the teachers would be so impressed by it. I would fill up an entire space of the exam just with stuff I memorized.

And then the teachers would be like dude i'm asking about something else you know like you know and he's like i don't know i don't speak english and then you know they all helped him so much and he was able to do that and with that master's degree he was able to get jobs you know at different universities and you know he fell in love with stony brook right out there so twice a week, he would get up at 4.30 in the morning and drive two and a half hours out to Stony Brook to teach 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. and then get in his car and drive to the dojo

and teach from 3 p.m. to 10 p.m. He did that. Yeah. It was crazy. Our families actually almost overlapped there. I'm pretty sure we did because my mom went to grad school at stony brook in the 80s yeah maybe i i did ask if my mom had taken any physical education martial arts classes unfortunately she didn't but maybe they they walked past five back in the day can you imagine we have a sibling somewhere we don't know about,

like half your brother, half my brother? Oh, my God. I'm just kidding. That's weird. I'm sorry. That's sad. How wild would that be? That would be wild.

And the kid gets the worst side of both of us. He gets my academics and, you know, whatever. You're just perfect, but I'm just saying. You know what I mean? Maybe my hair. Maybe my hair. Maybe my hair. He gets your receding hairline, my academic skills. Like, it's just, and he's out of shape, right?

He's not entering the family. We're just going to shun him. I'm kidding. That's messed up. Anyway, so now that's like the 60s and 70s and your dad's still employed by the university yeah and and then at the tail end of that the university was like hey come on back to japan we'll give you a position over here right but you know then i was already born right uh so you know he said you know what we're gonna just keep running kokushi martial arts and uh you know he added japanese jiu-jitsu to the

curriculum he made his own and he started learning karate from some of the most the biggest pioneers right from karate in the united states so he started implementing that into his curriculum and it became kokushi martial arts and kokushi that that's when the name came the kokushi budo institute or was it that's right yeah okay i think it was like 1980 something 1980 something okay yeah so now it's then he started running as a actual like his own dojo instead of a little bit more yeah i mean i'm sure somewhere along the line there was little bits of that like picking up private lessons and things like this but little by little it started becoming more and more his own and his business and things of that nature and they gave him his blessing you know so good okay and then by this time you're what

three years old probably a little kid you know and uh my dad was thinking to himself like do i want to go back and you know put my son through the Kukushkan University system? Put him in elementary school, judo programs, put him in Kukushkan Middle School, put him in Kukushkan High School, the pipeline for the champs. And I think about that sometimes. It's like, oh, man, if I would have done that, maybe I'd be in a much better place internationally in terms of my accolades. But then I also could have hated it and quit. You never know. Right. you know much better place internationally right in terms of like my accolades but you know then i also could have hated it and quit you never know right i want to think that i have enough grit to be like yeah i would have toughed it out and i would have been the best in the world

but probably not i probably would have been distracted you know yeah i mean it's tough life over there i mean i think it's a tough life it's a very very tough life going through that system right and i'm sure your dad when he made that decision it wasn't an easy decision problem i mean his family's still all there and you know um it's just kind of trying to raise a family in a foreign land that's that's no joke yeah so my mother yeah at the dojo right right because like i said my mother's distant relative great great uncle started the buddhist church so when she wanted to come to she's 17 years younger than my father and she was like 19 20 years old or something came to the united states to

stay at the buddhist church you know went downstairs and was like there's a dojo down here you know and she sees this like older dude my father like doing judo my dad's like hey what's up how old are you you know like right and now they're doing uh they're hanging out and you know right that started a family together and so yep and so from the get-go like you grew up in the dojo like You did judo since you were a baby. How was that? Because my dad was at the dojo 24-7, right? Right.

He would be at Stony Brook during the day, however many times a week. And he had a lot of different places that he taught at during the day, sometimes phys-ed teacher. And then he would be at the dojo every single day of the week so i you know for me to spend time with him like i had to be at the dojo right and he never made it a tough thing like he wasn't you know beating on me you know at an early age and trying to make me this you know force me to be this champ right it just had to be there to do judo you know it was always a fun thing he made it really fun we get pizza you know some of my fondest memories it's like he picked me up from school at like 3 p.m sometimes and you know i'd

be like an elementary school we drive to the dojo and go get pizza and then people start rolling in at like five you know he's like telling me to do homework and then sometimes just don't do it you know and then just like judo starts up i do judo and then you know we drive home you know and it's really cool that session yeah you know how he he could be you know he could be tough on you like hey trying to make you uh you know this super freak judo athlete only does doing judo but he it's cool that he made it fun for you i I think that's very important. He made it fun and he wanted me to be diversified. He could have just forced judo on me and be like, this kid's going to take over the dojo someday.

Just make him tough with his nails. But he didn't really take that approach. He always instilled in me, academics is very important. You have to have a backup plan. You have to do all these different things. Judo is cool, but if I only did judo you know uh something could catastrophically go wrong you could break your shoulder many times over and be able to do judo you know who knows right the risks are too

high right i so it's like yeah i mean i i guess he's seen it all you know he's going through the not just him but like his co his friends co-workers you know yeah because they were in kokushikan there was their sole focus judo and yeah right so the so growing up in the dojo um uh how was training like like you were uh i i know i my understanding is that there weren't that many kids there wasn't a big kids program. There was a big kids program when I was like a little, little kid. And, you know, the thing that he used to always say, like right before I was born, he was really, really gung ho about building the program and business and all this stuff. And he said he like on a given Saturday, he would have 80 to 100 people coming in to do judo.

Oh, nice. Wow. It was a boom. Yeah. It was a huge thing and then he was at a tournament every weekend coaching but then when i was born he really wanted to cut back on the hours that he was just doing full-blown judo all the time you know it was like an obsession an addiction almost right i want to spend time with my kid you know me and my sisters so he really really cut back and during that time period

the kids program sort of started dwindling away a little bit i see i mean yeah so because he wasn't focused on it so much anymore right right grown up you know elementary school middle school all during that time period it was sort of almost like a rebuilding phase we have a big adult program but not so much a kid's program and he wasn't really focused on that you know so you know i work out with adults right uh you know and by the time i was 12 13 years old yeah i was thrown down with you know some adults right and i had enough skill to be able to hold my own against the not so good ones and the very very good ones wouldn't you know kill me they would just kind of guide me along right and there was a couple of guys that my dad's like yo stay away from those guys and then that was always the case and uh that was you know i saw some big big

injuries as a kid seeing guys legs snapped and arms snapped and it was a free-for-all back in the day you know right there wasn't safety this and that. And there was no internet. And there was no cameras and nothing. You know, it was all word of mouth. People would come. And if you couldn't hang, you know, with the best guys, like, you just didn't belong there. That was the mentality for the judo program.

I see. Other programs were a little bit different. I see. I see. So it was very, very tough, rough, gritty. You know, just the neighborhood wasn't very good, you know, on the Upper West Side, on the 150th and Riverside. So, like, we would leave the dojo, our car would be stolen, our windows would be smashed, right? It was a huge, it was a weird time.

It's crazy to think that it was dangerous back then because I've only known it to be very family-like. That's right. it's a very nice neighborhood now yeah very nice neighborhood and even then you know the type of people that we attracted at the dojo because you know we weren't really charging much and anyone can walk in and do judo as long as they're kind of tough right so we had people on the mat who were sort of you know foggish right we had people on the mat who were you know addicts you know we had all sorts of people on the mat you know what i mean and those guys would all come in and train and have this humbling experience that was judo right right and it was like what a what a

interesting place to grow up i know yeah you've yeah that's that's such a yeah unique experience and i know yeah you by around that time when you're like teenager you started competing more and your your dad and you would on weekends just go off to tournaments and i know like yeah how was that experience i know he even put you in like into senior divisions early on yeah yeah it was pretty scary in the beginning you know i didn't really like competing so much because just uh i would get anxious and i was scared and you know i did all the things that you're not supposed to to mollify sort of some of that anxiety you know i try to make friends with the kids that i would have to compete against and i was like not a natural born killer you know kind of like a friendly guy always been you know so it wasn't really suitable for my

personality type i thought you know but uh yeah like i would go to these tournaments and my father would put me in my division you know the older division the heavier division and by the time i was 12 i was fighting on like the local adult circuit because i was kind of a big kid i grew really fast i know it sounds nuts but you know by the time i was 12 you know time i was in middle school i was already like 150 160 pounds wow you know like i was the tallest kid in sixth grade i just stopped growing after that for some weird reason five nine now i was like five nine in like sixth grade seventh grade and like people were like man this kid's going to be like 6'5", 6'4". Boy, did that happen.

Unfortunately, right? But I was a big kid, so it's like I would fight in these adult divisions. I remember at the promotional tournament in New Jersey, I was 12 years old and I fought a 28-year-old man. That must have been scary. At 13 years old, that was very scary. He didn't really – I was excited to go, year old man you know and that must have been scary that was very scary you know and uh he didn't really i was excited to go right just to root everybody on that was my thing right

go to the promotional tournament we would send like 15 guys there uh guys i train with day in and day out man i can't wait to see chris fighting and ralph fighting and bob's gonna be there and i'm gonna be rooting for them and cheering them and And my dad's like, let's just bring your gi just in case. And I was like, just in case what? So you could be like everyone's warm-up partner. It'll be fun. You can just bring your gi. I was like, I don't want to bring my gi.

And then he's like, just bring it. And we brought it. And then he's like, put your gi on. And I was like, I'm just warming these guys up, right? And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just warming them up. And then I'm warming up with the guys. I'm joking.

I forgot about it. I'm not nervous at all. And then my dad goes, guess what, kid? I signed you up. I'm like, this is an adult tournament. Right. I'm barely winning kids' tournaments. You know what I mean?

And then he was like, well, you just go out there and try. So yeah, I did that. It was very scary. And I think they picked somebody for me. I think fought the guy to a draw because you could fight him to a draw in the promotional tournament. And then maybe I can't remember the second one. I remember the next one I went to because I've already got my foot wet, and I was like, all right, I could do this.

Right, right. And I got thrown on my head, and I hurt my neck. Oh, man. Yeah. could have gone catastrophically wrong right and then i was 13 the second half of 13 and i went in and i didn't know how to do arm bars yet and some guy arm barbed me and then i hurt my elbow oh right because you're in the senior division when the kid you you're not allowed to do that in the junior division so it's like i you know and then i was like man this freaking sucks right you know and then i fought in a kid's tournament and i was blown through them because i was like you know i just fought this grown man the other day yeah you know and then maybe that's why your dad wanted you to have some that kind of

catastrophically wrong you know what i? He took a huge risk. Right. A big chance. I'm probably not going to take that chance with my kid. Yeah. I don't want him to go out there against some grown person, get thrown under the neck or something like that. Right.

You can't do that now anyway because people will film it and be like 13-year-old kid goes up against 24-year-old and get hurt. Right, right, right. You just can't do it anymore. Right. You can't get away with that, you so yeah that was that and then uh you know i've had such great pride right being in the dojo after that and being 13 14 training with 20 something year olds and there's 15 guys on the mat and they're like man i cannot believe you fought in that tournament right and

i'm fighting alongside these guys and they're all really cool and funny. And they live in their life. And I had that kind of an education. Some of the stuff they would teach me was many times inappropriate. But it was kind of fun. You're a middle school kid. That's what you want to learn. And I would repeat those things in middle school.

You're the cool kid. Yeah, that gets you some laughs and gets you in trouble too. And my mom would be like, where the hell did you learn that? That's funny. But yeah, it was awesome, man. And I was forced to go to Japanese school on Saturdays. Right. And I know there was judo going on on Saturdays.

So by the time I was around that age, I desperately wanted to go to dojo over japanese school obviously right no because it was fun there and then japanese school was fun too but you know go to japanese school be the dumbest kid in the room dumb because like i don't you know read and write as well as the kids that come from japan right right right the stakes are different they have to go back to japan yeah and then get into a good high school and good college. So they're really diligently learning all their characters, writing it, trying to get all the things. And I don't really care because I'm here. Right?

So I have to go through that, the academic ringer. Why would I want to do that if I could just go to the dojo and hang out? So it was always a battle. I remember one time my dad was getting in the car. And then I was like, I'm going to judo today, mom. And my mom was like, no, you're not. It's like, I'm going to judo today, mom. No, you're not.

And then as my dad was pulling out of the driveway, I ran out and I wasn't even wearing pants. I was wearing my little tighty-whities, like running, like, dad, wait, like trying to get into the car. You know what I mean? And I have those kind of memories, you know, just growing up doing judo. Your parents really wanted you to be diverse like not just focusing on judo and you they wanted you to go yeah they wanted me to be diverse you know and even when i was at a later age you know when i was uh in college and you know looking for careers and thinking about what i'm gonna do my dad was like taking over the dojo is not on the table unless you have your own right now and part of the deal with me getting a master's degree in the first place was you get a master's degree I give you the dojo that was sort of the oh I see right I see and that's why I chose

ESL English as a second language teaching English I figured that would be the easiest master's degree that I could get into even though I was terrible in school and then that's the one i chose and that's the one i went with and it has been a pretty useless master's for me because i'm not an english teacher clearly well i think you look and i probably be but you picked up a lot of teaching skills there no and no i mean there's some theories that are useful but i think you learn how to teach by learning you know by teaching i think that's just my i see right and teaching english to spanish kids a little different than teaching judo that's true that's true yeah yeah so he really enforced that sort of like you need to have your own you need to be diverse right you know academics is really important that kind of a thing you know

and i'm grateful for it yeah and then so going kind of going back so teenagers you start winning tournaments tournaments and you wrestled in high school and college yeah right so and then you you are you went through the whole phase like competing internationally and whatnot you even moved to b phase, like competing internationally and whatnot. You even moved to Boston. Yeah. Like, yeah. And,

and then, so how you, we can talk about, we'll probably talk about your competition career in the, in another episode. But so having done all that, you came back to New York and got your master's degree. Or did you get your master's before you moved to Boston

to train or is it after after after I mean I started it before it took me six years to do this two-year master's degree which is like unheard of no one ever takes six years to do this well you were training you took some time off for training I took a lot of yeah and then you know I had a lot of these deals with these professors like, hey, I'm trying to compete all over the world doing judo. Right. I can't come in and make all the classes. And some teachers were like, if you miss, you know, three classes, you get an F. Right.

I was like, all right, I'm dropping your class and taking this guy's class. And then some teachers were like, okay, I understand. As long as you get the work done, we'll do it. Right. So I have to take like one or two classes a semester. And then sometimes I'll start the class and the teacher would be like, absolutely not. You not you know they didn't i don't give a shit about what you have to do or your athletic career like no way and then to those guys i have to be like okay then i have to drop your class you know so it took me a long time you know uh yeah it took me a long time so i finally

got to finish it after i went to right boston i came back i went to the national training center with jimmy pedro and then i came back when i you know blew out my shoulder right and then i finished my masters then i see and then when did you uh when did you start really working at the dojo i would say like probably like six or seven years ago i really started taking it over right and i still had aspirations to compete i wasn't done yet and then i started training I would say like probably like six or seven years ago, I really started taking it over. Right. And I still had aspirations to compete. I wasn't done yet. And then I started training everyone as if we were at a national training center, which

is a big mistake. People just started getting injured left and right. And then I had to start learning and adjusting my entire teaching plan in the system in order to sort of fit what I wanted to do ultimately with the dojo. Right. in the system right in order to sort of fit what i wanted to do ultimately with the dojo right so it was an ongoing process of like seven or eight years where i had to learn how to run a dojo properly right keeping everyone safe and all those different things right so that that's around the time i joined so that's when you really started you know pushing for the new direction yeah when you joined 2013 teaching no it was all judo was all run by you back by then yeah okay so there was around that time

yeah 2013 2013 jesus peter yeah i remember then we go seven years yeah molly i so just a side note on how i was introduced to uh jintaro and kbi as uh i had a friend from college who grew up in the upper west side with your you know uh cousins too i think um yeah alex polano and he we did judo together in college and he really like emphatically recommended that i go to kbi when i moved to new york after college and he introduced me introduce us on facebook and i showed up and i didn't even try other dojos i just like you know what this is this is it i like it yeah i remember i showed up and then uh i was this new black belt and of course you you asked me to go and i got you you threw the heck out of me so then i remember that and i was like yeah i gotta stay here i that that round

really made me stay because i was like wow shintaro is good yeah it was a golden time right because it was perfect because i was in my late 20s i had no family obligations right you know and i like people who are grapplers and similar minded to me yeah you know and you were a smart young kid from princeton coming to learn judo and i was like hey man i like this guy he's cool he's funny and then you stuck it and then you know everyone's funny now yeah that's buzz now we're on a podcast together right and i i probably didn't imagine that again and yeah and then we just do judo hang out and you know we you guys can't hear we talked about a little bit in another uh podcast episode about friday practices and whatnot so okay so you took over the judo program new initiatives trying to make it more friendly to

a broader set broader set of people and then you are you are trying to also build up a kids program more than that build up a kids program yeah yeah a lot of new initiatives i think uh my father wasn't so much of a businessman and he still had that old mentality of if you want to learn judo you come and you learn right so with the new this era of like oh i want to do a free trial class and this and that he was like get the hell out of here with your free trial right you want to join or not you know it's like he would pick up he would get to the dojo at three and then you had to call between three and five if you wanted to inquire about the jersey you never picked up the phone really during class right so he'd pick up the phone really during class, right? So you pick up the phone, hello?

And then they'd be like, hey, I'm interested in judo and I was thinking about it. And what kind of prices do you charge? If you want to do judo, come show up. Bye. If you want judo, come by. Boom. That was it. That was literally his sales pitch.

So business wasn't so good as you can imagine. And then once you joined, you came in. it's like you want to join or not join there was no free trial like okay i'll try it it was all month to month it's like do you take credit card my dad's like no we don't take credit card go get cash and come back so they would go get cash and they would hand my father cash and write it down on his notebook he's like okay get out there and then you will get out there and beat you know get the piss beat out of you and then right they would quit you know so it was like a really bad in so many ways so you know i have we had a website at the time and you know i would clean that up and then you know i would take phone calls and right

take credit cards and yeah all these new things and beginners don't get smashed yeah and i started to implement some of the stuff and then the judo program started to grow right there's any any growing pains you remember from those early days like yeah i remember my the hardest thing during that time period was that i still had this, I need to make an Olympic team in judo mentality. Right. So it's like, and it was very difficult for me to teach and care about everyone else's judo. Right.

I wasn't training and focusing on my own judo. Right. So it's like, Oh, I have to worry about this guy now or teaching Peter. How can I help Peter, you know, meet his judo goals.

And it's hard to do that and think about yourself at the same time. So there was a part of me that was a little bit like, ah, man, I still have so much more judo in me to compete. And it was a reminder sort of because I failed trying to make a 2012 Olympic team because I hurt my shoulder. I was 43rd in the world. And this guy that I beat eight times went to the Olympics over me. So there was a big part of me that was like, man, I failed. Right. And then being in the judo every day was sort of a reminder of, you know, my shortcomings.

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So that was pretty tough at the time. Right. You know, in terms of like dealing with that on a personal front. Yeah. And, you know, signing up new members, right? I had no business experience.

Mm-hmm. You know, and my father's like, this is the way we did it. This is the way we've done it. And it just doesn't really grow. People don't want to do judo. And I kind of didn't really believe that fully. And my father was like, you have to run the dojo as a hobby because it is a hobby. I love teaching judo.

It's not here to make money. It's for me to teach judo. You should have that same mentality. You need to go get yourself a nine to five job. Literally, it was like nine to five, run the dojo till 10 p.m. And he's like, then you have a good life, right? You have a good life. And I was like, no, that sounds horrible.

Right, right. Yeah, I don't want to go get a, and I did get a nine to five. Right. I was a pharmaceutical sales rep for a year. Right, right. You know, and then I right you know and then i would do that and then come to the dojo and do judo and then sometimes on tuesdays and thursdays i would do client dinners and then i would freaking hate it after the first six months

right and it was like working you know essentially getting up at 6 a.m every day working out going to work and then going to teach judo and doing judo and then doing client dinners and work until 10 p.m it was literally like uh 6 a.m to like 11 p.m right every single day and i freaking hated it so that made you want to really focus like try to grow your dojo kbi as your primary income story like as actual business yeah yeah so that's what i where i was like all right man i really want to double i love the dojo i don't really like working i don't really see myself being at the dojo as work right and especially at that time it's like all my friends are tied up in judo you know so it's like i get to go teach you judo i get to hang out with peter

we get to have dinner afterwards and get drunk right throw down some drinks yeah it was a great time you know so it's like i love that part of the business and you know i've blurred boundaries before not with you really i mean maybe with you too but you sort of weren't really a client after a while you became just a friend yeah uh but you know sometimes it gets a little bit cloudy with some people. And I made that mistake. But yeah, it was a very interesting time. You know, it was a very interesting time for me to try to find my way. And I, you know, doubled down on the dojo. And it little by little grew.

And, you know, it was in a great place, you know. And it grew, you know, in an upward trend. Right. You know, from that time straight on through till the pandemic yeah now starting over you know right right yeah and which feels good too actually yeah it's just you know but i think that's a good attitude to have i guess in kind of reset and re-evaluate whatnot and i mean you're on the trajectory like you it wasn't just kbi you got successful enough that you have uh you have you opened up another location kano another dojo

in right in midtown you know yeah midtown rent's crazy down there right you know uh i partnered up with gary right he's amazing he's another judoka like me that we grew up together doing judo right and then you know i started teaching youtube because you know i like teaching judo you know really it gives me it makes me feel like validated right right like i spent my whole life like developing these skills and just having people who want to learn this skill yeah kind of gives me purpose and meaning also right right it's not just like i learned this thing for nothing you know and if i did judo just for an olympic medal i didn't get the olympic medal i would just be a failure right right but i've learned this skill now i could pass along this

skill and make someone's life a little bit better and more interesting and provide a community for them then it's like all right i'm doing something good with my time and then if maybe if i could provide the same experience my father was able to provide me for my daughter right then it's like a real good situation yeah so right what a what a story huh like the higashi family and the kbi now with kano and coming to here yeah pretty cool story yeah yeah and so looking now that we've looked back let's kind of try to look forward what do you yeah what's your vision of the future what do you want kbi to be what do you want kano to be your family and whatnot with the dojo judo yeah what do you think that's a great question.

I definitely don't want to. I think there's a fine line, right? Between like, you know, running it as a successful business because you have to have a successful business. Right. That way you pay for staff. You could scale. You can pay for cleaning people that make sure the dojo is clean. You could pay for good facilities and all this stuff.

Right. If you're not meeting your bottom line and you're just bleeding money every month, it's very difficult to run a business. Right. You know what I mean? If the P&L is not good, then you have to go get a nine to five to fund that hobby. You work a nine to five, you're tired. The service suffers at the end of the day. So you need some sort of a good positive cash flow situation to be comfortable, right? That you're not living paycheck to paycheck, all this stuff.

to be comfortable, right? That you're not living paycheck to paycheck, all this stuff. That being said, if you grow too big, too fast, and now all of a sudden all you care about is the bottom line, the quality suffers too because I'm not teaching any of those classes, right?

Right. And I did find myself a little bit in that, you know, predicament where there were too many people on the mat. You know, I remember some nights there'll be like 40 something people on the mat and I just can't give everybody attention. And when it comes time to do live rounds, There were too many people on the mat. I remember some nights there would be like 40-something people on the mat, and I just can't give everybody attention.

And when it comes time to do live rounds, people can't get enough time on the mat, and I would extend it just so people could get it, and I would stagger the start time, stagger the end times, and all these different things. But could I have kept pumping more people in and then pushing out the marketing and trying to get more students? I could have done that. But I think there's a fine line where quality sort of diminishes. So I want to make sure that I walk that fine line.

You know what I mean? Sustainable growth. Yeah, sustainable growth. And I want to diversify my income to where I don't have to be reliant on the numbers at the dojo. Right. And I've really focused on that in the last few years, you know, whether it's real estate investing or, you know, going out and getting an MBA, which is a huge, huge, you know, overhead for me. Yeah. With the student loans, you know.

Hopefully Biden does something about this. Yeah. Something might come up. Yeah. yeah something might come up yeah so then you know uh taking on some other little jobs and you know hoping you know i did the gee pants with pockets i did the wine stuff i created a wine you know all these different entrepreneurial pursuits that may be able to fund right being able to keep the dojo at a number that i like right a comfortable number and i think that magic number is between 100 and 200 students i think that's the magic number i see right so you don't necessarily want to

like create an like a dojo network empire like the like yeah you know that's partially why i started the youtube also right i could teach to a bigger audience right if i could pull if i create some kind of a product maybe judo related product right then i could scale and then i don't have to push the dojo and you know get too many students in there and i could just teach the classes i want to teach you know and part of that was having good staff right right and then uh identifying you know the type of people that want to be involved who can be sort of on my own vision to spread judo and make lives better and all this stuff and you know having a team for that right uh but of course with covid it's just

been too hard to carry right you know everybody uh but that's where i sort of see the vision you know in the future and you know i want to keep the dojo where it is and i want to grow kano and you know i don't want to have 100 dojos right i don't want to have 20 dojos i don't even want to have 10 dojos right i mean two or three good ones where i have good students where i could go and it's scalable and i have great staff i want to have great staff right and uh keep teaching judo doing judo you know and i don't have to worry about money that would be sort of the vision you know i mean who doesn't dream about right right yeah but that's the dream you know that's the dream that's i think yeah that's that's a that's a good way to think about things and you know it's it's really about you

know a lot you see a lot of companies even kind of flopping like we work all the a lot of these startups that just like go belly i mean you've probably read a tons of case studies about these uh failure cases and yeah that it's hard i think it's you don't want to burn too hot it's it's like a i remember when my first internship in college this older software engineer you know in his 50s whatever told me this like because up until college all is even schooling is about sprinting you know you sprint to the end of the semester get your grade and then you sprint again but he said you know life is more about it's more like a marathon so you have to pace yourself take your break yeah take your

breaks yeah you don't want to grow too fast and one day and i think you you have your you have a good attitude about your dojo both kbi taking my breaks yeah i'm taking my break you need that dad never took breaks he's uh he's a freak of nature is it and then they used to know like when is the dojo closed thanksgiving christmas eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day. That was the thing, you know? Man, that's... Yeah, I take my breaks. I take my breaks.

Yeah. You know, I guess now, you know, he is kind of taking his well-deserved break. Your dad. Yeah, he's a full-time babysitter now. You know dad yeah yeah he's full-time babysitter now you know get to be grandpa full-time i know you know yumi loves that and i love that yeah it's just good for everybody you know it's so adorable and like back when i was in new york city i'll come over and to your house and your your grand your dad i i've never seen him like that at the dojo but your dad is just all over you means like she he's so good to her and yeah he's loving it you know he's loving it he gets this hangout time with the daughter granddaughter now and he watches everything i do on youtube so he's

like oh my son's doing judo i guess the dojo is doing good right yeah you don't want to get too involved uh you know uh because then you know he doesn't want to micromanage me obviously but you know he has his way of doing things and i have my way of doing things and it's kind of better that we have our lanes now yeah that's good he loves the youtube stuff and uh yeah it's really good it's a good situation hopefully it lasts much longer than you know yeah keeps going i I hope so, too. Hopefully, the dojo comes back. Hopefully, you come back to New York, man. I don't know what you're doing in Detroit over there.

Getting a PhD and stuff. Well, keep my seat warm for me, man. Yeah, maybe I'll end up back there. You know, it really depends on what happens in four or five years. Your wife is a full-blown doctor, derm. She's going can have a nice practice on the upper west side yeah should we do upper east side like last time or upper west maybe if you're gonna do upper west you know if you're if she has a practice on the up east you

live on the upper east and you're not gonna make it to the dojo so yeah that's that that that cross cross town trip is uh very annoying But yeah, it's very annoying. So Upper West Side all the way, you do that. And then, you know, if I need another job because the dojo is still busted and broke after the pandemic, I'll, you know, I'll be her secretary. I'll be the maid. Your YouTube channel, your podcast, all that, you know.

I think you've done it right like diversifying and then i think you're you've built a good community at the dojo so you i think you're in good hands yeah thanks appreciate it cool yeah well i think that's about it for the history of kbi and the higashi family hope you guys enjoyed it any parting words for the audience shintaro thank you guys for listening please subscribe to my youtube channel please share if you can and uh yeah thank you peter for putting it all together you know i don't have the ability to do all this uh well it's been fun my pleasure important yeah in this and you know you're a producer on this thing and you know that's it i guess that's that's what i do but yeah it's been fun and uh

yeah stay tuned for more episodes guys and take care