The Shintaro Higashi Show - How to Make It in Judo

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

In this episode, Shintaro and Peter talk about how to "make it" in Judo. It is important to remember that there are many ways in which one can succeed in Judo. It really depends on what Judo means to you. Is it a hobby, an educational tool, or even a career as a competitor? Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hey guys, welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi show with Peter Yu, and today we're going to talk about how to make it in grappling sports, specifically judo for me, maybe jujitsu for some of our listeners, but generally just anything grappling, how to make it. Yeah, I think it applies to all kinds of sports, even outside of grappling sports. But yeah, I mean, you mentioned this a little bit in other episodes too, but there are lots of different ways to make it in judo. Yes, absolutely. Initially, this conversation was supposed to be about how to make it in competition, right? Right. How to make it in the Olympics, how to be a world champion, how to be an MMA fighter, how to be a professional. But I said to myself, hey, you know, how to make it in judo, to make it might be different things for different people.

So that's where we want to start off. Even in the dojo, you emphasize that a lot, like, you know, how it means for you don't push competition on all the people, like only the right people that want to do it. And because some people, you know, competition is not right for them. Competition is not for everybody. Right. not right for them you know they may not it's not for everybody right and i think that's the one of the worst things you can do you know as a dojo owner or a business owner or whatever it is that you are in an authoritative place in the dojo right to just say hey this guy competed round of applause and then just to put the competitors on a pedestal right i think that's you know the message goes out to the students like hey if you're not competing you're not you're a second

tier citizen in this dojo right and i think that's wrong and i think that hurts the sport and i think it hurts a lot of people you know and you don't really grow that way uh i think you have to take on a different approach if you want to sort of right push this make it mentality in the sport and uh you know it's not always through competition right so what are some of the ways other than competition that you you've seen people make in judo you know it really comes down to the individual athlete right right like sometimes you know you're just a lonely guy and you want a community of friends that they interact with right yeah you know i would say like a good percentage of people who come in through the doors of martial arts a lot of the times right the average practitioner that comes in is going to

be sort of a nine to five joe yeah right and that guy doesn't need to be put into the grindhouse of just competition and heavy and being a weekend warrior and all this stuff they don't need to go through that right risk injury right because the first place that they're coming through they just want to you know develop a spine you know they want to be they want to feel empowered they want to develop a skill set they want to get in shape they want to be strong you put them into competition prematurely and then they could break they get injured they could break emotionally right they could be overwhelmed by fear and then right now all of a sudden they, they're crippled. They can't overcome it.

And now forever, they will shy away from conflict. Now you've done them a disservice. They're worse off now that they came into the dojo then. Even though I compete, I don't really compete that much anymore. But I did compete a few times. Even for me, that was a big part of me for judo. You know, this community, you know, I have a 9-to-5 job, and I'll come in and hang out, and this community was a big part of me.

And, yeah, there was a, you know, good angle to take, and I see a lot of people coming through, and, you know, be integrated into and i see a lot of people coming through and they have you know be integrated into our community at kbi and yeah and then that actually i feel like helps them grow in confidence and sometimes they kind of move into competition too they're like oh you know i feel good enough with the community support yeah and you see a lot of that there's for competition right it's not for everybody i think you have to really know yourself uh coming into the dojo a lot of the times

people ask the question of like hey how long does it take to get a black belt and then you tell them five years ten years and they're like already discouraged like oh i don't want to do it if i'm not going to get a black belt right how long can i make it to the olympics you know i'm 19 years old is there a chance for me to make it to the highest level right that might be tough nah i don't want to do it then you know and that sort of thing is the wrong mentality because then those people are never going to get the chance of going in and right doing it you know sometimes uh your goal coming in to make it in judo might be to just right draw a spine like i said or get stronger and if you're in a dojo full of people who are strong and confident and friendly, right? You're going to take that on. And all of a sudden now

you're going to be influenced by that sort of people, right? And then eventually little by little, you're going to be like one of those people, right? But if you go into a dojo and if everybody's a competitor and the coach is saying like, oh, first class citizen competition guys, let's congratulate these guys who are competitors. Yeah. And then the coach is saying like, oh, first class citizen competition guys, let's congratulate these guys who are competitors. Yeah. And then the coach gets personal gratification and personal validation just based on how their athletes do. Now, all of a sudden, you're going in to do judo because you kind of wanted to learn a new skill, make new friends and get in shape. And now, all of a sudden, you're not competing.

So now, oh, shoot, I have to compete now. Right. They go in there there they tear an acl and now they're forever tainted right now they're forever like oh judo i did judo once i tore an acl and that was it you know what i mean so it isn't really for everyone i really i really believe that yeah right and it's interesting that you mentioned that there are so you've seen people coming into kbi or kind of asking you like hey how long does it take for me to what would it take for me to get a black belt or like become a world champ like that like you see a lot

of a lot of people who come in with that kind of attitude always yeah and you know i get it yeah what do you usually say to them yeah you know i get it you know i get where they're coming from and generally it's like it i always say it depends on the athlete right i've seen people who are super athletes who have high aptitude maybe they wrestled before you know maybe they're just great coordinated they have a good athletic base those people can just because judo rank system is merit based especially in my dojo yeah it's like maybe you can get a black belt in three years it's possible i've seen it done right you know travis stevens famously got a jujitsu bj a black belt in three years. It's possible. I've seen it done, right?

You know, Travis Stevens famously got a jujitsu BJJ black belt in a year. Right. But he spent his whole life doing judo. So it's not really like a fair comparison. Right, right. So I tell them like, hey, it really depends on the person. I've seen people do it as soon as, you know, one, two years, three years. And I've seen people take 10 years. And then they want to know what the average is.

And then I say average five years to five to seven years. Right. And then they say, okay, you know, because they want to believe that they're going to beat the average. They're better than the average. People want to do things that they're going to be proficient at. Why do you want to do something that you suck at? Right.

You just don't. People want to do things that they're going to be good at. And people are always seeking that. Right. I know I like doing things i'm good at and then sometimes you know i do things that i suck at like when i play chess with eugene and he beats me every time you know i don't like it that much it makes me not want to play chess anymore right right so yeah that's i think where it comes from and right yeah so and then another

aspect uh people probably come in with is fitness side of things. I bet we get a lot of people like that. So how do you approach people like that? What do you tell them in terms of fitness? Like what it means to make it in judo in terms of fitness? That's a tough one, right? A lot of times fitness, it's very quantifiable you know what's your goal weight how much do you want to bench how much you want to deadlift right there's

a little bit of a different animal right so you're not going to be able to have like hey you're going to be able to deadlift x amount of pounds or hey you're going to be able to burn this many calories because it really depends on what you put in right a lot of the times when it's fitness related i say hey everyone in here is in good shape. Everyone in here loves to work out and you're having fun. You're not thinking about how many calories you're burning when someone's trying to slam you. You're not thinking about all this stuff and it becomes this game. You gamify this problem solving and motion kind of a thing where you're expending energy and you're burning energy and there's constant amount of torque and resistance and you're developing your core and your legs. And it's

just going to be a fun way to burn calories. And, you know, a lot of the times if you really get into it, it's not going to be like, oh, I have to go to the gym today because I have to do day two of my upper body, lower body split or my push pull legs split. Right. So I'm just going to go to the gym because I want to see my friends and I get there and I'm just going to be playing around. It's like being a little kid right you know you're running around playing little games playing tag you know i know i play this with my daughter you know she works out like crazy but it's not a workout for it's just play right right and exploring the world and exploring this thing and trying to learn new things and you know that's really what it is about

the dojo that makes you know judo great and that's what i kind of tell them right you you're putting yourself around people who grapple who have fun who are in shape and you're going to be like them too right and that's really the pitch when it comes to the the fitness related how to make it in judo right and it kind of goes back to the point your point about being part of a community like if you just work out by yourself it's it's you know it's boring and then sometimes you just fall behind there's no one pushing you but in being part of the community that you know other people around you who love fitness as much as you do will keep you accountable i mean it's embedded in the judo judo culture right like if i could go

to the gym you know i go to the gym down the street here and then i know the person at the front desk a nice lady and i say hi to her and we you know bullshit a little bit and then i know the regulars that come in at noon or 11 o'clock right and i know those guys and it's kind of like a little community and i'm like hey joe i see a benching over there you know whatever it is and then you know the lady's like hey i noticed you didn't come in on wednesday you know but it generally stops there right because our progression isn't really reliant on each other right it was different if i go to the dojo and i'm relying on peter to try to slam me on my head with his you know sneaky little tomonage to the opposite side like i need peter to be able to develop that yeah right so when peter doesn't

show up it's like peter come on man i need to do some rounds with somebody who's you know sneaky with this little one-handed tiles and such like you got to come in and work out right so like my growth is sort of dependent on you and then when we depend on each other to get better right it really does develop this like accountability community slash situation like a team spirit like it's an interesting point about judo because or any other grappling sports where it is it appears to be an individual sport but if you dig deeper it is really a team sport then you're so reliant on each other yeah in martial arts and judo more than you think because yes you're not going to the competition and competing as a team i mean sometimes you are

right and people can make the argument like when you're out there you're out there by yourself you are but every round that you've ever done every drill that you've ever done is with somebody else in your dojo right so in the sense of the word it really is about right it's a real team sport sort of a situation right you know what i mean yeah it it really is and it's not even just that like at the actual competition like i remember going to competitions by myself in college no coach on my side i mean it really sucks like you get discouraged you know because a lot of times in comp in when you're competing you you encounter situations that are completely unfamiliar to you and it's really nice to have have someone on the side kind of more level-headed more experienced than you and just

kind of i really got that after training with kbi people at kbi and then going to competitions with with them like having you on the on my side was a was great you know and that's another yeah it's another team sport aspect and yeah for sure for sure and so another aspect on how to make it in judo is self-defense which we talked about this a little bit in another episode. But I bet a lot of people come in saying, hey, I want to learn self-defense, that that's how I want to make it in judo. Yeah, that's your goal, right?

And naturally, you develop a certain ability to where you develop indirect characteristics of being able to defend yourself. And I think the techniques are great. Techniques are only a small segment of it. And all of judo techniques doesn't really translate over everything in self-defense. No martial arts really do. We talked about this in a previous episode, so go check that out.

But yeah, you know, doing Rondori, right? Having someone full-blown trying to impose their will on you can definitely, definitely help you in a self-defense setting because you're capable of dealing with that kind of a pressure. Someone attacking you. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think you said this about fitness too, but it's really hard to quantify how good you are at self-defense. And I'm sure people come in and asking you, hey, I want to learn self-defense. Like, when do you think I will become proficient at self-defense?

Yeah. What do you say to those people? You know, it's a tough question to just say like, hey, yeah, now you're proficient all of a sudden. Or being a black belt makes you proficient because that's completely untrue right you're much more likely to be able to defend yourself successfully if you're a black belt as opposed to that if you're a white belt right that's we know that is sort of a fact right but i mean then you know you become a black belt and you tear your acl two times over and you can barely walk now you're even worse off than you began right yeah you know what i mean So it's so difficult to say.

But I think just having the attention as you're training, because every dojo has a reason why they're doing the grappling sport. If you're teaching it as a sport, if you're teaching it for competition, if you're teaching it because you're bottom line and you have rent and mortgage and all this different stuff, that's a completely different ballgame, right? Because then all of a sudden you have to make a curriculum. You have to have everything scale and then you hire instructors. And that's the only really way to grow and you're teaching to the middle.

You know what I mean? So it really depends. If that's your goal and if your idea of making it in judo is to be proficient at self-defense, you have to really put a lot of attention on to the martial aspect of judo. Right. And having the proper conversation. Hey, sensei, you know, how would this work? How would that work? And then dabbling in other martial arts, right?

You definitely, definitely, I'm a big believer in specializing first and then branching off, right? It doesn't have to be in that way. Right. It doesn't have to be in that way. But if you want to do everything in anything at once and, you know, joining a boxing gym, a kickboxing gym, wrestling and then doing judo and Brazilian, it's just too much. And you just don't have enough time in the day to be proficient at all of them. Right. Right. You know what I mean? So having a guy that says, hey, this is what your proficiency to be first. You're going to specialize this and branch out. And this is sort of the context of martial arts that's going to help you uh be a better self-defense practitioner right that's going to definitely help having that right teacher that right guide yeah is that you you that's another point you emphasize a lot like you know having a having the right teacher and the right teachers yeah so another another you know group of uh students you have is uh the families you know

kids coming in and then uh you know because we've we've only really touched on like a lot of the adult uh uh students but yeah you have a lot of children coming in and then families coming in and what what do they think uh about how what it means to make it in judo? That's a very good question. A lot of the parents say, hey, you know, I'm here. I want to bring my kid to judo. And they have this like, you know, we talked about self-defense and the mythical streets.

Right, right. They have something similar with kids and parents who bring their kids. It's a mythical discipline. It's like I want my kid to learn discipline and respect. It's like, okay, what does to learn discipline and respect. What does that mean? It's like, you have a good teacher in school, third grade teacher, Mr. So-and-so,

or Mr. So-and-so. It's like, that person's going to teach you discipline and respect. It doesn't have to be in a dojo setting. I think there's something mythical or mystical. Something that's embedded in the ether of judo that's going to help them be a better human being. And then there's something spiritual and, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I buy all of that. Right? I mean, I think you could learn discipline and respect in anything. Right, right. You have a good soccer coach that says, hey, I'm the coach. I know what I'm talking about here.

This is what's going to make you better. Right. You listen to me. Right? And you trust that coach because he's a good person. He really does care about your best interests. Right. Right.

And now you have a kid that's like, I respect this guy. I trust this guy. I'm going to listen to whatever he says. And then when that coach says, you work hard here, you're going to succeed. You work out hard in the real world, you're going to succeed. And the kid's like, yes. Okay. That kid has respect for the teacher.

You learn respect. Right. And you have to have the discipline to have that vision, keep going towards that vision, right? Now that kid learned discipline, not through judo, but through soccer, right? It really does come down to a very good coach. And, you know, there's things about judo that help facilitate that, I think. Right. Right.

And then that's one of the biggest things that I sort of preach. It's like, you know, when your kid goes out to do judo in the dojo he's going to get slammed and then you got to get back up and it's so symbolic right right getting taken down and getting back up right so yeah that's uh that's one of the things i i try to preach in judo with the family with the kids you want to teach your kids resilience and all these different things. And that's really making in judo, right? Having a kid that can stand up for himself. Right. And like you said, the discipline is another thing that's hard to quantify.

You know, it's this mystery. And I'm sure some parents get impatient with you. They're like, okay, what's wrong with our kids? My kid's been doing judo for two weeks and he's still running around and not listening to me things like that i had a kid i had a parent that come in you know after a kid's been doing judo for like six or seven years and then the parent was you dad was screaming at me really at you like why does my kid suck it's like what i take him to the tournament he's getting smoked like what do you what are you not doing to help my kid win right right i mean and he was like so

pissed you know and i'm like it's not really me you know it's like right i kind of wanted to be like it's you and your genetics but you know you know what i mean but it's like it was one of those things it's like it's not what i'm i'm not doing what i am doing it's like it was one of those things. It's like it's not what I'm not doing or what I am doing. It's like all these other kids in the dojo are having success. Right. You know, it really does come down to your kid. Right. Does he train hard?

Does he work hard outside the dojo? Just showing up and hanging out is not going to make him good. At competing. Yeah. Right. At competing. Yeah. It's a whole thing.

Right. Maybe he just wasn't a great athlete. You know, sometimes that's a part of it too. know how do you not a great athlete yeah you have to overcome that with extra work right extra work smart work yeah right progressive overload people can learn to be a great athlete you know what i mean just showing up twice a week casually for the last five or six years is not going to make you good. Right. Yeah. So what do you usually, what did you end up telling that parent?

Like, how did you, how do you handle this expectations on reasonable expectations from the parents? You know, I told him too, it's like, Hey, as you know,

you're getting older, right? You're developing your, you know, your kids developing into like a grownup and, you know athleticism plays a role you know 13 14 division some kids just blossom faster some kids are just more mature some kids grow more faster right your kids a kid he's a soft kid he's not a great athlete yet you know he's not fast he's not strong he's not working out he's not putting time. You can't be a twice a week athlete doing judo and go against a five time a week, morning and

night, two a day, Russian kid. I like using those Russian kids as an example. You just can't expect to beat them. If you're training twice a week and you're doing X amount of Andori rounds, and then the other kid that he's competing against is doing Judo every single day. Right. And not only is that kid doing Judo every single day, the dad's making him get up at six in the morning and making the kid run. Right. The kid goes to Judo for two hours.

He trains the whole time. And then he has a weightlifting regimen. And then when the dad comes home from work, he says, hey, kid, put on your gi. We're going to do some drills. Right. Right. You're not going to beat that kid doing judo two hours a week on a monday and a thursday you're just simply not you know and that was the thing that i did say and then

they were like all right we really want to double out down on this judo thing uh-huh what do you suggest and i was like yo sign up for four times a week sign up for more classes you know what i mean and then you know then i think in that particular conversation he was like oh is this a sales pitch you know sort of a thing and uh you know he was just kind of a dick to begin with yeah so i really didn't want him there in the first place oh um so that was a thing and you know i was like put your kid on a training regimen like a lifting regimen you know like a running lifting they're like can you do it i'm like i'm not doing that right that's not really and i've done that for kids before you know i've

had kids you know i worked out with this autistic kid, you know, 6 a.m. in the morning, you know, three days a week. I did this, you know, when I was first taking on, you know, the role of being a coach. And, you know, he was one of my first students that I was like, all right, I really want to help this kid, you know. And that, you know, didn't end too well either. Yeah. So, you know, I gave him the tips and I gave him the ideas. But, you know, it really does ultimately come down to the kid, you know, and it's like, hey, kid. Right.

How bad do you want it? You know, do you? And the kid's like, nah, you don't really want it that much. Right. You know, you don't really want to do it. Yeah. You know, it was just like a sunk cost situation with the parents. It was like, ah, my kid's been in judo for six years.

I was hoping by now that he was going to be a national champ. It's like, no, it doesn't really work like that. Right. You know what I mean? And it really does come down to the making it in judo for them, right? Making it in judo was having the kid succeed in competition. Right. That's like the classic story right like parents

parents expectations from anything about anything that kids do it's different from what kids actually want and on that note like what what do you you have a lot of kids at KBI. And what do they really think about what it means to make it in judo? How do they approach it usually? So there's a lot of kids at the dojo. Not right now because of the pandemic, obviously. But there's a lot of different kids and a lot of different families that have different backgrounds. If a dad or mom has done judo in the past, they're like, it's judo. We want judo.

We definitely, and you're the best at it. That's why we're here. That's a whole other person. As opposed to like, oh, Johnny, we're on the Upper West Side. We live a couple blocks away. We want something to do on a Thursday afternoon. Like, I hear you guys do some kind of martial art here. That's another different type of a person too.

Right, right. You know what I mean? So it really depends on that. And then sometimes a kid does judo and they just don't like it. They just don't like it. They're just there because their parents signed up and it's something that the babysitter can bring them on a Wednesday and burn until 6 p.m. That kid's not going to get good.

I mean, he's going to get good if he's there and if he has a good teacher. Better than nothing, yeah. Better than nothing. And most of the time i don't make it about judo a lot of the times it is about judo but it isn't you know it's about me having a relationship with the kid and like having fun and like training and it's like you know we do these exercises in the dojo it's like not only will this make you a good judo player but it'll make you a better athlete period right it's like who doesn't want to be a better athlete right right and then it's like well you know and you get these kids that are like i only care about academics or whatever it is but it's like hey even if you're a great academic you're gonna get a phd you want to stay in shape right right being in shape is great it feels good and

people like you better and just being in shape is better yeah than not being in shape so might as well bang out those push-ups might as well do these drills it's gonna help you be a better human you know and then some kids are like oh what if i don't care about being a better human then i'm like then you could just leave right now because i don't want you here yeah right and then so like that's sort of making it for majority of the kids right having a good coach having a good mentor right having like uh and you know i think that's really important for parents to talk to their coach about because if the coach only cares about my competition team and my championship rap medals then that's not the right place for them unless you've done judo yourself and that's all you give care about you know right right so you

know it's it's a very interesting thing Every parent has a different reason why their kid is there, right? And then you do have to differentiate, you know, the experience for each kid. For each kid, right? And I know, you know, some parents are willing to do private lessons because they want their kid to learn judo. And some kids get really, really rewarded by like, oh, I want to learn the technical side of it. I'm super interested in the technical side of it. And then I'll give them that. And then some kids just want high fives, man.

High fives and to run around and work out. That's good too. So it really depends on the individual and then how they make their experience. And then having a coach to be able to recognize that. That's what it's making in judo you know what i mean yeah and i really love seeing these kids around the dojo just growing up like you know that i i first met them when they're like 10 and then they're like going through high school and then they're doing so good and so well in school and then they love judo and i just love seeing that progression and i i i think you really did a good job in the kvi like trying to foster that kind of more you know accepting environment of all kinds of what it

means to make it in judo dude i'll tell you right now, man. There was a kid who did judo at the dojo since he was like seven or eight years old. And he's still kind of around to this day. He's an adult now. But he just didn't like competition. He'd get really nervous. He's a smart guy, cerebral kid. He's probably going to be a very successful lawyer in the city.

That's his path. And then I took him to a tournament. And he wanted to go. He wanted to go. And I was kind of like, I don't know. It's not really. But then he wanted to go. So I was like, all right, you know, and he wanted to go. He wanted to go. And I was kind of like, I don't know. It's not really. But then he wanted to go. So I was like, all right, we'll go.

He wanted to go. The kid wanted to go. Yeah, his parent wanted him to go too, you know. I see. We go to the tournament. We probably have like 15 kids there. And then, you know, he's like 12 years old. And he's like, I don't know if I can do this.

And I was like, yes, you can. You know, we're going to do it. You know, we're going to do it. He goes out there. You know, he gets smoked and then he gets so scared and he wants his second match up he doesn't want to do it he wants to quit you know and then he gets really he is like a he gets so much anxiety right like runs out of the doja the tournament venue and he's like hiding in between the cars i'm like man right listen you know it's like i i was kind of wanted to be like i told you you know maybe we shouldn't be here or whatever.

But as opposed to that, it's like, man, if you don't go out there right now, you'll hate yourself for the rest of your life. You're just going to always shy away from conflict. And usually I don't talk like that around 13, 14-year-old kids. But we were already there and it was at the point of no return. If you let yourself back out here. And then he went out there and that could have catastrophically gone wrong right if you could get dumped and you know injured or something like that then he's yeah even worse off right so it's like a really lose lose there's

two scenarios right there right that it could just have been such a disaster right and then the third option was that he gets the shit together go out there and wins right which he did he threw the kid ochi oh man was he happy it was like one of the happiest moments of my life you know i was like almost fucking crying yeah and then like uh you know it forever changed him and he becomes more confident and but that was also luck you know people want to be like oh it's because you're coaching not really oh it's because you know he he worked yes but it's luck you know because that other kid could have been a killer right right that russian kid they all talk about yeah the mythical russian kid so like that's an example of like uh he did it you know

and he's been in and out since and you know uh it's a long relationship right you know me and this kid yeah he's what is he like early 20s now you know and he'll always have judo to come to the dojo and work out just work out feel strong and then every now and then you know he wants to compete he competed in like the promotional tournament to get his black belt he's right there he's on the cusp of that been this long journey right you know for him to make it in judo is to get his black belt yeah right you know now he wants to be a lawyer now he wants to be you know a corporate lawyer and now you know those days of him wanted to be an olympian are gone long gone right right you know nor does he want that nor he should he give up his career path to go for it right for him making in judo is coming back when the pandemic is over and then

getting his black belt and forever securing a place at the dojo right yeah and then just having a home somewhere that he could always train somewhere where he could always feel good hard day at the office i'm gonna go to the dojo and beat the shit out of peter i hope he does man you know it's just It's this personal journey of finding out what it means to make it in judo. Yeah, that's – Yeah, man. It's great. I love hearing those stories.

What you think is going to be the best outcome, what you think is what you truly want is not. Yeah. You know what I mean? I always thought that. It's like if I won the Olympic gold medal, I'd be happy. Right. That's all I have ever wanted since I was like three years old. But then going through the pursuits, failing at it,

and then now I'm just kind of like, eh, does it really matter for me? You know, it doesn't. Can I give everything up right now and try to go for it again? Yeah, maybe. You know, maybe with some success. I don't know. But does it really matter? It doesn't matter for me at all.

You know, and it's something that I thought I've always wanted. Yeah. Right? But a kid like that all you know and something that i thought i've always wanted yeah right but a kid like that you know i'll just explain like he really did he did it you know uh and he made it in my eyes man he made it in judo right yeah he his mom brought him you know two or three times a week right his parents going through a divorce at the time you know and it was like he was having a hard time and i you know he made his connections to dojo was a safe place for him he tried the competition thing you know he he didn't want to do it and he he overcame right he stuck with it after that you know and he's like i want to be good how did i do that i was like y'all coming three days a week you know whatever it is and he started coming in more and training more and you know and it helps too that he's a smart kid right people like him

and all this stuff but you know to me man that kid made it he made it yeah i'm proud of him and uh you know hope he keeps doing it yeah i i really hope so too and yeah that it's really a cerebral thing i guess in the It is a physical sport, but as with anything in life, you've got to kind of find that meaning yourself through the journey and stick with it. Yeah. And yeah, I love hearing those stories.

Yeah, it's amazing. Having said that, so now I would like to ask you about the competition aspect, how to make it as a, well, what it means to make it as a competitor. And I recently came across this interesting quote from this guy named Arsene Wenger. He was a legendary manager of my favorite soccer team, Arsenal, in England.

And he's really big on, you know, athlete development. And he says something like this in order to build a player soccer player professional soccer player there's it's like building a house you first build techniques like until like 14 when the player is 14 years old and then and you go on to build physicality from 14 to 17 and you also learn about tactical aspects you know how to pass how to read the game and whatnot and from 18 to 19 you build you as a player have to decide if you want to go through with it the grueling life of as a professional player um and he even said like if you're if you don't have the techniques by your four by the time you're 14 forget about it you're not never going to be a professional footballer so what do you think about this kind of

uh theory on player development like does that apply to judo also competition judo as a person who's gone through that uh i think it does if you're in japan right this arsenal coach i don't know anything about soccer right yeah i right as you know you invite me to all these soccer games yeah we watched like one world cup thing together right but it's very competitive especially in europe right people like soccer over there right so if you're doing judo in japan it's exactly like that right you have to go through the elementary school championships you have to do judo three days a week five days a week whatever it is and you get these super athletes who are like 10 11 years old doing judo full-time right and then you get a place in the elementary school championships, right?

Sixth grade. And then you win the elementary school nationals. Now, all of a sudden, you get recruited to go to the best middle school. Right. Kushikan University, Kushikan Middle School, Kushikan High School. You want to go through that pipeline and you pick a pipeline, right? And by the time you're in middle school, these guys already know who the champions are going to be.

They already, by that time, all these kids have the techniques down, right? It's not about learning the techniques in these schools. Well, so even by the time you get to middle school, right? Kokushikan has a technical sort of base, and they're going to force that on you. So it's very drill-oriented. It's very technique-oriented. If you're in, you know, 7th, 8th, and 9th grade,

which is middle school in Japan, that's when you truly, truly develop your technique. But you already have to come with precursor judo right right that precursor right like having that technical base so the technique is already established by the time you get to middle school they really really refine it and teach the kushikan system right i think you just have to now grow into your body right right and then putting in the time putting in the rounds putting in the experience you know so if you look at it uh that way yeah it's almost equivalent in japan you know uh i think it's a little bit different from soccer you know but i think making it in judo in a different part of the world is completely different especially in the united states right you know what i mean because it's not as competitive you can get someone who's a super athlete walking into your dojo when you're when they're 25 years

old and have a lot of success you know yeah and then in competition if you're thinking about the kids i think the most important thing is having them develop a love for judo right and people say oh you want your kid to develop athleticism first and all this stuff and technique first but when you develop the athleticism first and you rely too heavily on that they can taint you right and then you become a super athlete all of a sudden you're 11 years old and you have all these different options to go into other sports right if you truly develop that love for the martial art and have the right coach in front of you and saying yeah you know i love judo i love martial arts because it's fun. And I like this guy too.

He like teaches me. He tells me funny jokes. He's cool. And there's all these other adults in the room that are doing it successfully. And they're the type of people that I want to be. I'm not talking about judo bums that are like, ah, when I was a kid, I was this and that. You know, and they don't really do much in their own personal life. But I'm talking about like high end, high professional, you know, people like Right, right. You know, and they don't really do much in their own personal life. But I'm talking about like

high-end, high-professional, you know, people like you, right? Oh, I'm with Princeton and I'm getting a PhD and I'm going to the dojo and, you know,

I'm throwing down and, you know, kids want to be like Peter, you, right? And you show up when we have the kids' promotion ceremony and Peter shows up

and, you know, he teaches them some technique and they're like, wow. And then all the parents are like, where did you go to school because like blah blah blah and then everybody wants to be like peter you now all of a sudden you know you have sort of a system right right right and you know that's what you sort of uh well you know you want to have a dojo where you love the sport. You develop a love for judo and there's people in there that you want to be like. And now all of a sudden, okay. Now this kid is born in.

Now this kid is learning judo. And just take it from there, really. And you can make it that way from the United States. I see. It's not as competitive. Yeah. it that way from the united states because i see it's not as competitive yeah and then there comes a time though once you do have to sort of leave your local dojo for greener pastures i think that is uh you know people get pissed like oh loyalty this and that but it's like sometimes you just can't get any more out of the dojo from a technical standpoint if you want to make it right now all of

a sudden you're on the international circuit and now you need you know to learn from someone who's been there right and if your coach has never been there your coach has to let him go and just you know would you say that's kind of the route you took as a competitor not really you know yes and no i in 2011 i've done judo my dojo my whole life right you know what i mean and then as i was trying to make the 2012 olympic team uh i really i need better training partners right yeah and then you know nothing wrong with my training partners currently at the dojo but i know jimmy pedro had a slew of you know travis there and some of the best guys there so i wanted to just sort of go there and just be around those guys. And, you know, I did it for like a year.

You know what I mean? But I don't think it was the, you know, I got a lot out of it, you know. Right. You don't think it was like mandatory in a way? I think I was a different case. Right. You know. I see. I think, yeah. And then, yeah, I was a little bit of a different case. Right. I see. I think, yeah.

And then, yeah, I was a little bit of a different case. I see. I could have gone a little bit earlier in my career, I think, would have probably helped, right? Being around that and just traveling around. But, you know, ultimately for what I ended up and what I ended up doing, you know, I'm glad, you know, I have no regrets in the path that I took, but I do think if you're 17, 18 years old and you don't have any options and you have just full blown judo ahead of you and all I want to do is make an Olympic team and you have the entire support system

of your family and blessing and you know that then yeah, that do that. I see. You know what I mean? And you think so that, you know that then yeah that do that i see you know what i mean and you think so the you know we're kind of contrasting japan and the states and in japan i guess this pipeline is so established that you just have to kind of pick the school or if the school picks you you kind of go through and then they'll like try to make you into that mold and do you think something

like that needs to happen in america so that we produce more uh like we see more success as a you know judo nation like in the competition circuit uh i think that needs to be something an overhaul at the grassroots level i know for this stuff to do it really really does come down to being a numbers game. So if you look at Kokushikan Middle School or something like that, and you have 60, 70 kids in there just in the middle school program, and they're all the best athletes that you could ever ask for. I remember going over there, and there was a middle school kid that was benching 225 for reps. Oh, wow. He was like 13 years old.

He was like 13 years old you know he's like 13 years old 5'9 built like me now and then he was benching you know 225 whether that's good longevity wise or not i don't really know but he was a freak yeah i mean i you know went back to united states i used to train in the summer and i came back you know a year or two later and he was benching 315 you know what i mean he's a kid he's like a 13 14 year old kid at the time benching 315. You know what I mean? He's a kid. He's like a 13, 14 year old kid at the time, benching 315, you know, weighing 200 pounds. He's a great athlete,

fast, can climb rope, up and down, up and down, no legs. Right. You know what I mean? It's like,

yeah, it's different. You know, you attract the best athletes in Japan, right, doing Judo, right? And now you have selection.

You know, you throw them all in a room and you make them just put them through the grinder. And then the cream sort of rises to the top. And then now all of a sudden you have a selection of the 10% of the 10% of the 10%. Now you get to pick from those guys which to develop. It's different because the judo population is so small in the United States. And then all of a sudden you're a great athlete and you go go to high school and now you want to join the track team. And then that cute girl that you were eyeballing in math 101 or algebra, now she's doing track. You're not going to judo.

You're going to track. You know? Yeah. Right? And it's like if I didn't have the dad that I did, that's what I would have done. Right. You know? Right.

Track is so fun, man. Track is done right you know right track is so fun man track is like you know co-ed you get to sit around and hang out and you do your event and you go to the thing like track is 10 times more fun than any sort of grappling sport that you can do in high school right you can't you can't have the funnel if you don't have anything to funnel with i guess exactly yeah exactly yeah and that's the problem now you know it's like to funnel with i guess exactly yeah exactly yeah and that's the problem now you know it's like you get a dojo like a small local dojo as an example right and then you have 10 kids in the kids program and then you have one athlete and then the coach just focuses on that one athlete and then you're gonna make it one day kid

and then the nine other kids kind of get neglected half of those kids are gonna you know leave judo yeah you know there's one kid that was not good but he stuck in it now he's all of a sudden athlete and then the coach turns his focus to that kid and then that other kid who was gonna get good at judo now he's an athlete now baseball took him right now you got nothing now you got nothing you know yeah so that's the problem you know you have to grow it from the ground up in the grassroots level and have uh you know more people do judo right and i think uh you know there's a lot of issues without having like a full-blown marketing or branding sort of situation just even dojos at the local level need

to sort of stop doing it the way they're doing it in order to keep the students because there's people walking through the door right the retention is very bad in the industry right because there's people walking through the door, right? The retention is very bad in the industry. I see. Because kids get smashed too soon. They get pushed too hard. Or there's this competition hierarchy thing, and they get forced into it. That's why I say, you know, the first goal of running a dojo, you got to make the kids love judo.

If they love judo and they love coming, they're going to get good. And then if they love it, they're going to stick around. The more kids stick around, the bigger your program program and now you have more kids to pull from you know if you're gonna develop judo in that sense you know you think kids in japan are educated that way like to love judo no no oh they can't afford to do they can't afford they can't afford not to because there's so many people I think a lot of the times it's like

the Japanese you know for instance like if you join a sport in the United States right it's like oh you know fall season

winter season I run you know play baseball in the spring it's not like that in Japan high school you join a club after school club

or a team you pick baseball, you're doing baseball year round. That's it. You're not doing anything else but that. Oh, okay. Okay. So it's like if you want any sort of success in sports, you have to start from an early age and then it becomes part of your thing, right? And some people don't even put their kid in sports. They just say, okay, academics all the way. It really depends on the parent. But if you're a dad and you're like, ah, I want my kid to do judo and you take him to the local dojo twice a week now you're plugged into that system now you're

gonna do judo in high school right we know this he's gonna join the judo team in middle school we know this all right so we're gonna do how are we gonna make him competitive all right we gotta take him to this dojo all right now you're you're that's it that's all you're doing i see i see you know what i mean i'm sure it's like that in korea too yeah i mean those student athletes teenage student athletes are different like they're taken out of the system they don't really take classes all too much they just do judo or soccer or whatever yeah i mean there's like levels of this stuff too right right you be at a high school like kushikan and then they put you in special classes and academic special classes where you don't really have to perform academically.

Right. You know, or you could be in sort of a, you know, regular school doing not such a good judo program, but now they're just doing judo recreation as a hobby. You know, there's different tiers to this stuff. Right. But generally you can't join the soccer team

and the baseball team or the baseball team and the judo team. You pick one, you stick with it and then, you know, you get put join the soccer team and the baseball team or the baseball team and the judo team. You pick one, you stick with it, and then you get put through the ringer there. You know what I mean? I see. So that's how you start as a kid. And I kind of want to ask you about the actual competitions, the different levels of competition, and how you even go to those things or qualify for those things you know that's a very good question and in the united states u.s judo has sort of a tiered system

right a competition difficulty ranking system so it goes a b c d e right and this is only relevant internal united states judo right a level tournament would be the highest international tournament b level will be sort of international but kind of like a lower tiered international tournament and then the national championship is c d is regional e is like local but like a tougher local tournament so now all of a sudden you have this ranking system based on that and points right so if you go to a c-level tournament, which is the US Nationals, and you take top three, now all of a sudden you're a C-level athlete.

I see, I see. If you win it, you get five points. So now you're a C-level athlete with five points, right? And then they rank all the athletes in order. So if you're an A-level athlete, you know, it doesn't matter how many points you have, you're above anyone that's C-level and B-level, right? And then so, you know, in a given division, let's just say, you know, 81 kilos or something like that.

You know, you got two guys who are ranked A, that's the top first, second person. You got one guy that's ranked B, and you got five guys ranked in the C-level athlete. And then within those, develop the hierarchy based on the number of points you have. And then you have this US-based ranking system, right? Once you're on that ranking roster, you have ability to choose your international level tournaments. Yeah. Is it kind of related to how those trips get funded? There's really not that much funding for the US u.s tournaments where you kind of have to

go out and seek out your own sponsorships oh right i see but they do have like if you have a certain number of international points then they'll give you some money then they'll pay for some of your trips i see so that's the u.s ranking system oh and then based on that, you have right selection abilities and eligibilities. So if you're number one on that list, every quarter you could choose a tournament. You could choose like, okay, let's say the European tournament's happening, the Puerto Rican, whatever it is happening. We're going to select three people from each division. And then you list your top five tournaments that you want to go to

and you get first dibs. I see. So you get first shot at the international circuit and which tournaments you want to compete in. So if you're number five on that list and then four people wants to go to the, let's just say, Continental Open in Peru and they all sign up for it, the person fifth on that list cannot go. I see.

But if number two and three says, ah, we don't want to go to that, number five and six has the opportunity to go. I see. So that's how you get on the international circuit in the first place. You have to climb up the U.S. judo ranking system. You kind of start winning the uh lower level like c or d's first you get you get your name on that list and then yeah i see so the thing is this like if you're wrestling you have to win counties to go to states you have to win you know top four in the states to go to nationals it's not really like that in judo because there's

just not enough of a population right you can't say like oh you have to be you know third in west new york states because you go to new york states it's not that many people doing judo in the entirety of new york state period right right so you could go to like a pedro open which is an e-level tournament and you know get an e-rank and get one point here and then you could just fly to nationals and you could just go right you could just go and compete in the nationals you take third you got a c-level tournament now now you get you know points from both of those tournaments then you go to a b-level tournament and things like this you know just rack up points the higher you're on that list right the best slots you can choose you know and it's very important to be able to choose your tournaments to go internationally which is a completely

another system because some of the tournaments that are easier than others to gain the points, those go fast, right? Right. Because Continental Open, right, rewards, I think, 100 points for the winner. Continental Open. Internally, within the US. No, no, no, internationally.

Oh, international. There's a different separate system for that. Separate system for that, right? And then if 100 points, right, and you're going to do the European Open in Europe versus the Pan American Open in Peru, that tournament in Peru is going to be 10 times easier. It's closer.

For the same amount of points. Right, right. Because there's just much more better judoka in Europe. Right, right, right. Overall, the concentration of better athletes are in Europe. Right. Compared to the Pan American region. Right.

So you want to go to the Pan American Open. Right, right. In South America as opposed to the ones in Europe. Yeah. Right? So that's why if you're sixth on the list, you may never get a shot to go at some of these tournaments. Then you can't really make it to the Olympics. Then it's going to be tough because then you have to win the bigger tournament

the international system is interesting they have the Continental Open Grand Prix Grand Slam if you win a Grand Slam so if you win a Grand Slam you get like a thousand points

if you win a Grand Prix you get 700 points if you win a Continental Open I think you get like a thousand points if you win a grand prix you get 700 points if you win a continental open i think you get like 100 points or something like this and these points are administered by the ijf yes this is a world ranking list world ranking okay so all of a sudden now peter you go to u.s nationals right then you take third and then all of a sudden you're a c-level tournament now you're on the list let's just say you're a fourth on the list right there's the european tour there's the pan-american tour right there's the asian tour and there's generally bundled together right right do some back-to-back so like a good example back when i was competing was like

the asian tour right we have we had koreinental Open, which was called the World Cup back then. Then you have the Grand Prix. We had a Grand Prix in China. And then the week after, we had the Grand Slam in Tokyo. So you have three back-to-back tournaments. And you'll go to all of those? I have done that.

Yeah, I have done that. And then you're trying to gain Olympic points. You would go to the tournament. You would stay and do the training camp for all the athletes. That was brutal. And then you'd go to the flight of the next country, compete, do the training camp. And then you go to the next one, compete, training camp.

So like, you know, not necessarily in that order of Continental Open, Grand Prix, Grand Slam. Right. Sometimes it's three, you know, Continental Opens back to back. Right. But it's in a similar region. So it's designed so you could go from tournament to tournament to tournament. Right. I see. I see. Yeah, so it's designed so you can go from tournament to tournament to tournament. Right. I see.

I see. Yeah. So it's very interesting. And then if you win at the Continental Open, you have the right to compete at a Grand Prix. Now there's limitations on competing at the Grand Slam. It's two per weight class. You have to have done certain things beforehand to qualify for that. Right.

And then you gain points and then you try to get as many points as you can and then you try to qualify for the Olympics. And there's a cutoff, right? Like you have to be above like 40s or something, 30s or something. Yeah, if you're on that world ranking list and then if you're within the top 20, then you automatically qualify. But there's many ways to qualify, right? Directly where you're in the top 20.

And this is excluding doubles, right? If Russia was first, second, third, and fourth, take out two, three, four. And then the next person bumps up because you don't want duplicates for the countries because it's one person per country. So that's the way to directly qualify. And then there's other ways to qualify like wild cards and Pan American cards and things like this. I see. I don't really know exactly what it is right now.

Yeah. I remember back when I was doing it, it was top 30. And they always change it. I see. They really follow closely the world ranking list of the international tennis. It's very similar. Ah, I see. Interesting.

It used to be much easier before in the 2000s. All you had to do was send one person to the Pan American Games or the Pan American Championships and then they placed top six. And you made them qualify. Then immediately, the weight class qualifies.

Ah, okay. And when the weight class Then immediately, the weight class qualifies. Ah, okay, okay. And then when the weight class is qualified, the United States internally can pick or do a qualifying tournament. It's up to the U.S. to decide how they're going to send there to fill that slot for the Olympics. But they don't do that anymore. No, that was super easy. Not super easy. It's not easy, but it was one of those things. EZR, yeah.

Yeah, how many countries are tough and competitive in the Pan American region? You got Canada, Brazil, Cuba, and then you got US, right? So it's like to make it in the top six and qualify the weight class in the top six wasn't too difficult. Now with the direct qualification system, very difficult. Right. Very difficult. So, I see. So, now you have to compete with the world, not just the American region.

Yes, you have to compete with the world. But, you know, the beauty of this whole system now is getting out of the United States is relatively easy. Oh, I see. Yeah. So, now, like, for instance, they're going to do U.S. Nationals this year. Right. Right. oh i see yeah so now like for instance they're gonna do u.s nationals this year right right it's gonna be like a you know like a weird olympic semi-olympic post-olympic weird right time oh yeah and then with the pandemic there's not gonna be a lot of people going right i guarantee it so for you to place top three at the u.s nationals it's gonna be easier than ever yeah and you do

that you already have yourself a c-rank and once you have that now all of a sudden you're on the roster gain a couple of points now all of a sudden you you can you have the right to enter the international circuit right you know what i mean and then the year after the olympics no one's really going to these these events you know they are but a lot of the countries send their b team c team right you know what i mean japan doesn't even send uh to But a lot of the countries send their B team, C team. Right. You know what I mean? Japan doesn't even send to Continental Opens most of the time. I've known Japan to send like in the oceanic region, oceanic continental region, like a Continental Cup Australia, Perth or something like that. Japan send like their high school team.

Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, those kids are tough, but it's not going to be like in a pre-Olympic year. Right. Because the points that you earn get halved every year. Oh, so for people like Owen O'Shea, it's not worth it going to these right after the Olympics. Yeah, it's not worth it.

Because if you win a Grand S slam this year and you get a thousand points next year that's 500 points a year after that is 250 points and then it goes down down down down i didn't know the points depreciate that fast that's depreciate pretty quick so that's why the closer it is to the olympics the more valuable they are i see the last year of the olympic that's why i see people coming out of the woodworks like 2020 it's like 2019 like all right i'm gonna start competing again you know that's why all these guys come out of the woodworks like 2020 it's like 2019 like all right i'm gonna start competing again you know that's why all these guys come out of retirement right right you know what i mean i see i see i see yeah so not right now the points that you earn for the 2020 olympics 2021 now

right the extent of the qualification still june right now the points you earn now you earn 100 of it you keep 100 of it right i say yeah it. You keep 100% of it. Right? It's a very interesting way to do it. It's very time consuming because you have to compete in a lot. For instance, if you look at Nick DiPapolo standing at the 81 kilo division, he has 500 international points. I think

he's 74th in the world without the duplicates. With the duplicates. Yeah, he needs to win a couple of tournaments here. He needs to win a couple of matches at a higher tournament. And then if he gains 500, 600 points, then he can directly qualify. Oh, because he'll be within 20. Yeah, I don't know what the number is right now.

Right, right. He has a little bit of work to do. I think he can do it. I hope he does it. You know, I'm, right. Yeah, he has a little bit of work to do. I think he can do it. I hope he does it. You know, I'm a fan. Yeah, that would be amazing. Yeah.

So as an aspiring judoka in America, you would go through the local dojo system, try to develop your skills and whatnot, and then you start competing locally, probably nationals, all the C-level ones i guess yeah make yourself and put yourself on the list and start start competing internationally and try to rack up points ijf the most important thing though is not to get discouraged when you lose the local tournaments because the local tournaments can be just as tough right and that's the most important thing that people forget you know you go to a local tournament, Eastchester Open or something,

something really, really, really local. But then you get people here in the United States that are immigrants. I actually think it was harder for me to compete in New York than it was at nationals. Yeah. Dude, I once went to a tournament. It was like Tech Judo Open or something

and I was watching the division. It was like 73. Yeah. You know, there's two kids from Georgia played the country and they were both junior national champions.

They were unbelievably good. Either one of those kids probably could have done top five in the nation. Right. You know what I mean? Then you had in the mix Salama who took second.

Subiza who took second. Yeah. You know what I mean? Then you have an Anthony Venetti in there. Yeah. You know what I mean? Then you had, in the mix, Salama, who took second. Subiza, who took second. Yeah. You know what I mean? Then, you know, you have an Anthony Venetti in there.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Now, all of a sudden, you're five deep. Yeah. Five deep with people who could potentially

take top five in the nationals any time. That's a tough division. It's a local tournament. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then you get a kid

that's like, oh, it's my first local tournament. If I can do this and if I can win, I can maybe go to the nationals and they draw one of these guys oh it's easy for them to be like oh man i can't win at the local level there's no way i can make it at the national level not true because you

don't know who you're gonna get you just don't know who you're gonna get you know what i mean it's it's it's a it takes a strategy i guess it's not just playing. Dude, I went to the Liberty Belt Championships back when I was competing. And then, this is a crazy story. I went to the Liberty Belt Championships. It was a D-level tournament at the time. I don't know if it still is. And then the number one and number two

from Canada was there. Number one and number two from the US was there. And none of us won the tournament. I was number one at the time. Right. In the U.S., right? This guy Oleg won it. From Canada.

No. Oh. Where was he from? He's from the Philly region. Oh, he's local. Okay. Yeah. This is this.

Yeah. Top four guys in all of North America. All in the same place. One, two's local. Okay. Okay. Listen to this. Yeah. Top four guys in all of North America. All in the same place. One, two United States. One, two from Canada. In one division at 100. Yeah. We're all joking about it.

Like, oh, my God. Like, we got to fight each other at the D-Laboratorium. Like, this is stupid, you know? Right. And then we're in there. We're kind of joking around. And then this guy Oleg comes in. And, you know, he's like a recreational player.

He's very good. You know, he's a Russian dude. And then we're all kind of like joking like oh who are we gonna get first and before the draw is like oh man I really don't want to draw one of you guys ha ha ha yeah we'll see each other in the finals you know who blah blah blah and then you know I remember the guy the number two from Canada drew Oleg first and he's like oh thank god it's not one of you oh man Oleg beats him yikes right and then number one from the U.S. has to fight this Canadian dude. Right?

And he's like, oh, man, thank God I have to fight this guy instead of the number two from Canada. Goes out there, Oleg beats him. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And then number one from Canada, who was on the opposite side of the bracket than me, right, goes, thank God I didn't have to fight any of those guys. I get to fight Oleg. Right?

Shintaro, I'll see you in the finals. Fights him. Loses. Wow. Yeah. So I'm in the tournament now. There's a number one guy from Canada, number two guy from Canada,

and then a number two guy from the United States. Right? I didn't have to fight any of them. Because Oleg beat him all. Yeah. Yeah, and then I had like one or two easy rounds or something, and now I'm all of a sudden in the finals, and I have to fight Oleg.

And I was like, yo, thank God I'm fighting Oleg and none of those guys. Like what a great day. I go out there and I lose to the guy. Wow. Yeah, man. I took him lightly. He threw me for a yuko early on.

And he dragged it out? He dragged it out. And then he was doing something while I was at burn in time. And then, you know, I was so confident too. I was like, I was going to throw him at the last minute. Right. And then I couldn't throw him at the last minute and he beat me. Damn. You know, but that's a local, that's an example of a local tournament. him at the last minute. Right. And then I couldn't throw him at the last minute, and he beat me. Dang.

But that's the example of a local tournament. You know what I mean? Right. There were probably like five or six kids there in that division who's never competed. Not never competed, but only competes at the local level. Yeah. He was able to get four of the best guys in North America at the time at a local tournament. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. guys in north america at the time at a local tournament yeah you know what i mean yeah that doesn't happen in you know wrestling or yeah but whatever other sport that says a lot of depth you know it just does it rarely happens that way right you know so it is uh just because you can't make it at the local level can't doesn't mean you can't make it at the national level right and a lot of the times at the national level you're not going to have the immigrant athlete you know oh this guy was a champ from uzbekistan or this guy used to be a champion you know poland like you're not going to fight those guys because they're all americans american americans right so a lot of times these uh the c-level national tournament is a lot easier yeah

then yeah i see i see you know what i mean i knew a guy that fought in the, you know, he won the Brown Belt Nationals. Yeah. That wasn't even a thing, Brown Belt Nationals, until they were like, ah, we'll do a Brown Belt Nationals. Right, right, right. And then the people who signed up won. Yeah. Right?

I mean, of course, you have to sign up to go, but, you know, it's like, oh, I won Nationals as a Brown Belt. It's like, you know, not to take anything away from them. Right. It's a lot easier than people think, you know, it's much more attainable.

The international circuit is a different level. Right. But because they have a tier system. Yeah. Yeah. To make it out of the United States and Judah, I think it's a little bit easier. I see.

And of course, when you go out there, you're going to be, you know, you're going to be shocked at the level. Cause it's a little bit easier. I see. And of course, when you go out there, you're going to be shocked at the level that's out there internationally. It's easier to make it into the international circuit from America than other countries. Man, if you're trying to make it

to the international circuit from Japan, freaking impossible, man. I remember your friends when they came to visit uh kousuke and yeah kousuke right he was number two and he couldn't he couldn't be which one um he was right behind the olympic champion i forget uh anyway so i remember he was like yeah second in the nation but he could never make it to the olympics because he was behind someone and kosuke was he coached at san jose he's still i think at

san jose he's oh right right yeah he's unbelievable he was like uh he didn't make it to the international circuit you know he didn't compete out there but i've seen him at judo training camps where he was destroying everybody everybody yeah everybody like the best guys in the country the best guys in the u.s best guys in canada anywhere and everywhere everybody from all over the world is training he's smoking everybody but no one knows him yeah and his friend too i forget his name now kosuke's friend keita keita he's another one yeah he was behind who was he behind? I forget.

But anyway, he was like same story, right? Like he could only go to the lower level international tournaments. Yeah, there's just so much depth in Japan. Yeah. Right? There's not that much depth here. So, you know, I think it's a lot easier than people think to make it out there. You know, I'm not trying to like make people who've made it in U.S. Judo sound bad.

That's not really what I'm trying to say. It's relative, yeah. It's very relative. And then you don't have to have this. It's normal to think local, regional, national. It's normal to think that. If I can't compete in the local level, I can't compete in the regional. I have to be good at regionally before I go to the national level.

It's not generally the case. It also depends where you're from new york new jersey region has pretty decent judo right california has very good so if you could probably make it out of california you could make it in the nationals too you know what i mean so it depends on your region but to get on that ranking roster there's a lot of different ways to do it right you don't have to just go to national you can go to a regional tournament you know you go to the midwestern classic or the fall classic or i don't know there used to be something called the ladder tournament which the sole purpose was it was to make novice players you know go on to the

national roster right i see and then i think president's cup is a c-level tournament that they still do that's in texas i don't know if i i don't know if they still do it but that's another one that they used to do you know uh right that's sort of an easier way to get on because you know nationals people want to fight nationals because it sounds good it's like the nationals right right i see and that's how you would yeah and you get points and you you can then you pick an international tournament to go yeah yeah so this is the thing too internationally there's these little things that you can do sort of not hacks but they're kind of like you have to pick and choose, right? Right. The best way to qualify for the Olympics, like I said, not all points are created equal.

Yeah. Taking first at the Pan American Continental Tournament is different than taking first at a European Continental Open, right? You can first at a European continental open, right? Similarly, if you make it to the continental championships, like the Pan American championships, Asian Pan championships, European championships, those points are worth a lot more. I see. All right. So the best person who's in the lead on the world ranking list in the division gets the right to compete at the Pan American championships. Right.

And if you could take top five there, you get a ton of points. So the first and foremost, your goal should be make it to the Pan American Championships and then take a medal there. That's a lot better of a path than trying to medal at a Grand Prix or a Grand Slam. Because if you're not ranked really high, you're going to draw some of the best guys in the world. And you're not going to beat the best guys in the world

if you don't have the experience to do so. Right. You know what I mean mean so for those same 700 points making the pan-american championships is almost everything especially in a country that's not that competitive internationally judo's american judo is not that competitive internationally right of course yes we have our standouts right yeah we have adonis ang, we have our standouts, right? We have Adonis, Angie, we have Colton. You know what I mean? And before the generation that precedes that, Marty Malloy, Travis, Kayla, all those people, right? Yeah, but those are the three to five names.

That's it. There's countries that have depth. Top four guys or girls in every division, competitive, internationally, on the world ranking list. We're not like that. So the path to success to the Olympics there for the Americans

is to get on the Pan American Championship team there's so much going on you can be neck and neck you can be neck and neck with like 50 points in the division you versus another person

right one of them can have one point more than the other person because they competed in one more tournament. Right, right. They go to the

Pan American Championships, they take fifth, and now all of a sudden they went like this. Boom! Boom. Right? Yeah.

And then that other person is not good enough to catch up going to these other tournaments, especially during the Olympic times. Mm-hmm. Right?

So all that stuff matters. And then if you have a lot of points going into the new circuit, for instance, going into a post-Olympic year, you go to these tournaments that aren't so good and all the best guys aren't there. So now you're getting the best seed. Now you're starting off in a much better place and you're getting these B-level athletes from these not so good countries. Now all of a sudden you're going to win more points. So it's like a snowball. And then yes, you could sit there and plot and strategize, but it really does come down to go to as many tournaments as you can internationally.

And the more tournaments you compete in, the better you're going to get, the more training camps you do, and the more points. And it the better you're gonna get the more training camps you do and the more points and you know it's very difficult to sustain that and do that if you have a career

if you have a family right if you're going to school you know it's almost impossible I think because you got in America

like you say you gotta raise your own money you have to raise your own money other countries like in Japan and Korea

the national governing body just pays for it all, right? Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. It's brutal. It's brutal. It's like you go to a tournament.

It's like, all right. I remember going to the World Championships in France. I qualified to go to the World Championships for Team US. And it's like it's a seven-day thing because you have to go. Every day they did a different weight class right so we have to spend seven days for hotel fees you know oh wow that's like what it's like 1400 bucks airplane a thousand is 2400 you know it's like you know food and other expenses like that's three grand right yeah one tournament you know i used to go to like a dozen tournaments a year easily

you know i mean you go one a month yeah that's 30 40 grand it's busy life taxing on your body too i had the new york athletic club thankfully and there's a lot of people at the dojo who would help me fundraise and all this stuff so i was able to like go yeah you know and if i ran out of money you know it's like I could sit one out or, you know, get my parents to pay for it or something like this,

you know. There's lots of different ways, but the New York Athletic Club helped me greatly. You know, and you can get sponsorships like that, but it's very difficult.

Right. Right. Right. That, man, that's so much goes, yeah, I,

I only had like cursory knowledge of this, but, you know, listening to you talk about in-depth, it's so much goes. Yeah, I only had like cursory knowledge of this, but, you know, listening to you talk about in-depth, it's just crazy. Well, I mean, Hudson athletes have fun help too. Like there's a lot of people that help me, you know, a lot of independence, private companies and people that I know and, you know, being connected

and then, you know, really be able to, people to buy into this thing, you know, there's no ROI there, zero ROI. There's nothing, you know, it's like then, you know, really be able to people to buy into this thing. You know, there's no ROI there. Zero ROI. There's nothing. You know, it's like, hey, can you help me? You know, and you sort of have to play the glorified sporting sort of type. Yeah.

And then you have to. It's very tough to do, you know, to make it. Right. But that's the thing. Like, if you do that and then if you have enough accolade and then you do the right bureaucratic thing and you know you get your belt and your rank

and the world ranking list and eventually you could open up a dojo that's another way you could make it open up a judo school and open up a dojo because it's a skill that people want to learn yeah it is you know what I mean

it's very sought after and a lot of people are willing to pay for what to learn you know and yeah not easy though to do also because once you spend your whole life doing judo now all of a sudden you want to start your own dojo now you have to learn the business side of it which is a whole nother animal and that's the problem right you spend your whole life developing and learning a martial art now you don't know anything about business right nothing zero yeah it's tough yeah it's like go out there you know start your peter you wants to do a dojo it's like okay peter you llc okay now you

gotta like get an ein number and you have to get a bank account and then you have to have checking you have the credit card and expenses and you have to find an accountant and it's like what right you know what i mean so it's like uh how to make it in the business side of judo you almost have to partner up with someone that knows you know and how do you have to know just enough

not to get taken advantage of right right so it's a whole nother level of how to make it right you know what I mean

we'll probably have to dedicate a whole episode on that how to make it yeah we'll do a dojo business yeah situation yeah

thank you everyone for listening yeah that was very insightful thank you shintaro you know yeah and like you said there are many ways to make it in judo and there are many even within each way there are many ways to do it and any parting words on how to make it in judo no okay you know find a good mentor really find a good mentor who knows it and talk to them right ask questions and you know be coachable be coachable don't be the guy that says hey i know i know or if you're not coachable no one's going to want to help you and i think that's one of the biggest most important things how to make it in anything be the type of person that people want to help right that's the most important thing yeah you know if you come

into my dojo and you have all the talent in the world but you're an asshole i'm not going to help you i'm simply not yeah you know it's like oh i want to do private lesson once a week and i want to sign up for the membership and this and that if you're an asshole i'm not gonna no way get the hell out you know what i mean so be coachable be likable you know and have be the type of person a good person that people want to help and if that's the case then people are going to help. And if that's the case, then people are going to help you. And now you can ask the questions.

Now you can develop your own journey. It's like really build your own adventure kind of a thing. Yeah. And it'll be fun. That would be my advice. Be coachable. Be likable. Right.

Be the type of person that people want to help. Yeah. Exactly. Like Peter Yu. Be like Peter Yu, basically. Oh, my God. Well, thanks for listening, guys.

And tune in for the next episode. See you soon. Bye. See you guys. Bye.