The Shintaro Higashi Show - Interview with Oon Yeoh

Episode Date: February 7, 2022

Oon Yeoh is an accomplished Judoka who represented Malaysia at the World Championships in 1993 and 1995. Now he is a prolific Judo journalist and publisher who writes for his blog Judo Crazy while running his own Judo club in Kuala Lumpur. He also helped produce the official IJF media digital e-books. In this episode, Shintaro sits down with Oon to talk about his experience as a competitor, and his thoughts on the current status of Judo. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

hello everyone welcome back to the shintaro higashi show not with peter yu today but with un yale he's uh sort of a legend he's been behind the scenes involved with judo for a very long time un is a two-time world team member just like me right un yes exactly but different different era i'm a little bit older slightly older yeah yeah so for those of you who don't know Oon, right? Maybe you've seen some of this competition footage from the 1990s, maybe. But you for certain have come across some of Oon's content online. Not in form of TikTok, not in form of video, but a lot of the writing stuff. Right?

So you have a blog, a judo blog. Yeah. Yeah. Judo Crazy. That's what it's called yeah and you're a huge fan of the ijf circuit correct yes yes i follow that quite a lot yeah and un is a very connected person in judo so like neil adams all those guys you know have written books and you have co-authored a lot of these books as well i've co-authored some of the books uh i've co-authored a lot of these books as well i've co-authored some of the books

uh i've co-authored a book with mike swain which uh american audience yeah that's a good one yeah and uh yeah if you're an american you know who mike swain is yeah and neil adams everybody knows him because he's the voice of judo yeah and i've also edited a lot of books i've edited a lot more books than uh than actually written and because i for a while in the mid-90s, I was working for Ipon Books in London. And they were, at the time, the foremost book publisher for judo books. So they published books by Yamashita.

They published a book on Osotogari by Yamashita, a book on Ashiwaza by Sato, Nobuyuki Sato. They had a book on Seiyunage by Nakanishi. A book on Ashiwaza by Sato. Nogiyuki Sato. They had a book on Seionage by Nakanishi. And, you know, all these guys. Kashiwazaki. Yeah.

You know. I remember seeing these books at these judo tournaments, right? So you go to the judo, there's a little booth selling gi, selling books. I used to read those books. Yeah, yeah. And I don't think I'm alone. When you were a kid. When you were a kid. This is in the 90s. Yeah, when we were a kid.

Yeah, so I think a lot of our audiences probably doesn't even realize, like, they've read books that have been edited by you. They've read content that's been created by you, like, in form of Judo Crazy. Like, if you want to read any sort of IJF, oh, you know, what's happening now kind of an article Oon has you know written a lot of those articles correct yes yes yeah yeah and if you've also read my blog a lot of it has been written by Oon as well right yeah Oon's a great writer so that's what we're gonna do today we're gonna talk a little bit uh to Oon uh but I want to start off with a little bit about your judo background and career so you know people like hearing what you used to do and where are you situated now? Okay.

For the listeners who don't know where you're from. Yeah. Well, you know, right now I'm based in Malaysia, which is where, you know, where I was born. But I actually grew up partially in the United States when I was very young. Oh, shoot. I didn't know that. Yeah. When I was five years old,

my parents, my father moved there because he was doing his postgraduate studies. And so I grew up partially in the United States. And also I went to university, University of Texas in Austin. So I went to college in the United States as well. Did you do judo back then too? I did judo. Actually, I learned my judo in the United States as well. Did you do judo back then too? I did judo.

Actually, I learned my judo in the United States. Not as a kid, but actually just when I entered college. So I picked up judo really late. That's impressive that you got into judo in your 20s at college and then you made a world team? I think I was about 19 at the time. That's amazing. Yeah.

For all those of you people listening saying, oh, is it 19 too late? It's not too late. You made the world, right? Yeah, I did. Yeah. But, you know, I was really crazy about judo. So, you know, I was training all the time.

And, you know, like you, you did wrestling in college, right? Yeah. I did a little bit of wrestling. Not because I liked wrestling per se. I know you like wrestling. I did it because... I like it, you did wrestling in college, right? Yeah. I did a little bit of wrestling. Not because I liked wrestling per se. I know you like wrestling. I did it because there wasn't that much judo in my college. There wasn't enough judo. So just to get extra training, I did a little bit of wrestling.

Nice, nice. And so my judo development was in the United States. And so, you know, when the interesting thing is when I've seen your video, your basic judo video on judo fanatics, I've seen Jimmy Pedro's American judo system. And when I look at the gripping system that you guys, you know, that you guys practice, you know, it's very similar to what I was taught, you know. But of course, all of us learned our judo in different places. You were in New York and Jimmy had his, his, you know,

he learned from his father. I learned it from, uh, the, the, the, the club I trained at where I really learned my competition judo was, um,

the LA judo training center in, in Los Angeles. And it was run by a guy, uh, now deceased named John Ross. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of him but so it was quite a famous coach back then and it was quite a famous uh judo club you know i mean i remember jason morris used to drop by and you probably heard the name mickey matsumoto oh yeah yeah yeah for sure yeah famous guy right kind of a american legend yeah yeah a small guy

55 kilos uh i think he was at that time but he he used to train out there too he used to train out there too he competed way into his like late yeah yeah his later ages i don't want to say like right he was yeah long career yeah yeah long career he was a US Open champion many times and so he used to train there and he was nice and you were lightweight too you were 60 kilos 60 kilos back then

so I used to train with him you know but I remember for example Jason Morris dropping by and I did different weight

but you know we did a little bit of randori he did Tomo Nagi on me I remember that and that's interesting he's not really known for his Tomo Nagi well he did tomoyanagi on me i remember that and and that's interesting yeah i'm not really known for his tomoyanagi well he did yeah yeah that's right but he he did uh his uh sort of his tomoyanagi is a yoko tomoyanagi just threw to the side yeah and i remember one

time the one of the gracie brothers i can't remember which one came by because uh one of them liked to do judo uh foro to learn the stand-up game. And so he would drop by. And so, yeah, it was quite a happening place. And under this coach, John Ross, I learned gripping and gripping systems. Very similar, actually, to what you teach. Very similar to what Jimmy teaches as well. Yeah. I mean, we're all doing judo right so yeah well I think it's a very American thing

you know that that gripping system it's a it's quite an American thing because I trained also quite a bit in the UK yeah at Camberley and all that and I did didn't have such a system per se I I mean, you know, so the American system is quite a distinctive American thing, I think. Yeah. But you know, if you go, so like I learned from Jimmy as well, right? Jimmy was my coach at one point.

So I do have a lot of Jimmy influence and Jimmy has a lot of influence from Japan, Scuba University, where he used to train the majority of his career as well, right? So I have roots in Japan because my father went to Kushikan University. so it kind of really trails down from that but like i think the average american dojo doesn't kind of have a sophisticated gripping system

so you know maybe yes maybe i'm not trying to like bad mouth american like that right but so how long did he train in california for well uh it was it was for three months it was one one of my summers one of the summers at the university. Instead of taking classes, I decided to go off to California. Actually, you'll find this pretty interesting. I was looking, you know, at that time, this was like pre-internet, right?

It was before the internet. And the famous coach at that time, the famous personality at that time was a guy named Hayward Nishioka, which I'm sure you know the name. Oh, yeah, I know him. Yeah, he's another one that's a legend. He's a legend, right?

Yeah, he's a red belt. I see him at these USJF meetings every now and then. He's a great guy. He was famous in the 60s. He's still famous. Yeah, so I had heard of him and I thought, well well he's out in california the judo must be good so i went out there in in one summer couldn't find him you know

this was pre-internet so you can't really search you can't really google i went to a few different clubs couldn't find him yeah and somebody said hello why don't you go over to the la judo training center john ross is over there he's a a former national coach, national level coach. And I went there and I spoke to him. I told him, look, I'm this kid out from Austin, Texas. And I came here to search for more judo. Love that. Judo pilgrimage.

Yeah. And he said that he spoke to me for a while. And he found out I didn't really have much money. I didn't have a place to stay. And so he said, I tell you what what if you really want to learn this summer you you can you can just i'll give you a sleeping bag right you can sleep in the office and you know and you can earn your your you know your your keep here by helping at that time i was a brown belt and he said you help me teach the kids and the children's judo in the afternoon yeah right in the afternoon always need help teaching kids always always yeah so so i i

did that to earn my keep so i i taught kids in the afternoon and then his assistant taught me you know uh competition judo in the in the afternoons and in the evenings we had randori and stuff like that so so so i did that for three months I mean like every day excellent yeah how did you progress after that your judo career after that did you go back

to Malaysia shortly after that no no how old were you when you made a world team right so I went back to university

I went back to university and you know then the following year so I went to LA I think it was in 91 and so I went to LA and I think it's 91 and then I went to then

91 and then in 92 I went to to Camberley in the UK so you know like it's a funny story I mean I went to Los Angeles to look for Heywood Nishioka didn't find him and ended up with you ever meet him? You know, it's a funny story. I mean, I went to Los Angeles to look for Heywood Nishioka.

Didn't find him and ended up with him. Did you ever meet him? You know, I think I'm not really sure if I've actually met him. I met his daughter. His daughter went to, who was doing judo as well, sometimes came to LA Judo to train. Did she do a lot of judo? She did some BJJ, I think, as well. I remember at that time she had a purple belt, which is not a judo or she she did some bjj i think as well because she had

i remember at that time she had a purple belt which is not a judo thing is it oh yeah no yeah that's a long yeah and she had a purple belt back then yeah so i i don't that's a bjj thing is it is that is that bjj or yeah i mean but you know there's kids ranks in uh so everywhere you go different yeah even for us like white yellow orange right green blue purple brown black for the judo rank system right right for the kids but we do like as a junior rank right right she she was a teen at the time so i you know yeah purple belt as a teen that's a legitimate thing yeah so so so after that the next summer the following summer uh i i went to camberley uh in the camberley judo club in the UK. Quite a famous club.

But initially, I was looking for Neil Adams because he's so famous. I bought books. He's still famous. Of course, he's very famous. He's probably more famous now. So at that time, I had read books by him and so on. So he was my hero, Jujigatami.

So I was looking out for him and i i had yeah i read that he was he had traded the budokai so i went to the budokai in london have you been to the budokai oh i have not all right okay so it's world famous because it's like the oldest european um judo club i went there and i said looking for neil adams they said he's not here anymore you know he's he's long gone already he has his own club somewhere and and i said i'm here for the summer you know i want to learn judo and they said we you know at the budokai we're not a full-time facility we don't have a dorm why don't you go out to camberley they've got a full-time facility so you could stay there and so i went there and i i there you know full time for three months for another three months

and so I did that and I you know that so I developed my judo further went back to America again to continue my studies

and then in 93 I love that so you had like a very crash course situation like three months here three months there seeking out the best in the game I love that

yeah so you had those, so what was your like mindset on that? Like, all right, I'm going to learn as much judo as I can. I want to make an Olympic team, but I want to make a world championship team. Like, or were you just like, you know what? I'm doing this because I love it.

And that's it. Like, did you have goals in mind at the time? You know, the first two stints, during the first two stints, I just wanted to improve my judo. I didn't have have any aspirations for competing at the world level. What about work stuff? Were your parents like, oh, you should go get a job or something? What was that like?

Well, I was still a student. I was still studying. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just knew I wanted to do judo i was studying economics i was studying economics so so the first two stints right in la and camberley i had no aspirations but the third stint the the following year in 93 yeah that that was the year the world championships was going to be held in hamilton canada which is not too far away from the united states and so so a thought came to my mind, maybe I should try for that. Maybe I should try for that. So I went

to Camberley again with the aim of training up for the world's teams. And I'm from Malaysia, which is not known for its judo. So I wrote to the Judo Federation in Malaysia and asked them what would it take for me to represent Malaysia in Hamilton?

And they said that we're not sending anybody. We're not sending anybody. Then I said, can I go? I'll pay my own way, right? Can I go? And they said, we don't know you. We don't know anything about you. So I sent them my records, where I went to train, the local competitions that I did in Texas and in other places.

Show them who I trained under, what I did, and my results. And one of the guys there, one of the Federation guys, championed my cause. And he said, look, okay, this guy is willing to pay his own way. He's done all this thing on his own. He's gone to England to study, and he's gone to LA to study. Why don't we give him a chance, right? Do we know this judo guy?

Like, is he a famous judo guy? No, no, he's not. He's a federation guy in Malaysia. Is he still around? He's still alive. He's not active anymore. He's a real old guy now. Are you guys still friends?

I've kind of lost touch with him already. But, you know, at the time, this was so many years years ago he was really helpful to me he didn't know me he didn't know who i was but he liked my record yeah he liked my proactiveness you know he liked the fact that i went to la to learn i went to camberley to learn i went to germany to learn and and so he liked that and he said okay i'll give you a chance and so uh so so he you know he he submitted my name to the igf and said he's going to be our representative in in uh in hamilton and i was alone there right i didn't have uh any teammates i actually didn't even have a coach i didn't even have a coach so my so my my friend a friend of mine from Germany, his name is Hans-Jörg Opp,

and he was a national level player. He was... Which country? Germany. Germany. Germany. Yeah, so he was number two to... Do you know who is...

Does the name Frank Wienerke ring a bell to you? Frank Wienerke? No. He's the guy who beat Neil Adams in 84. Right? He's the guy who surprisingly beat Neil Adams in the Olympics in 84 so he was number 2 to

Vinica so he was just beneath the number 1 back in the day if you weren't number 1 you couldn't make it out of your country you can't because now you can have in the IGF circuit you can have 2 players in the same weight class but back in the day you couldn't

so he I knew the number two behind Pavel Nastula right do you remember Nastula one of the best Polish judokas ever and that guy number two

yeah you know didn't have a chance to make it to all these big teams but he was unbelievable what's his name he was unbelievable

Sylvester Gavel right right so nobody's really heard of him because he could never get out of Poland right because

Nastula was everywhere well you know well you know I mean not to digress too much but you know

if you think about it you know the Japanese legend Ryoko Tamura or Ryoko Tani later Ryoko Tani

for 17 years for 17 years sheoko Tani. For 17 years, for 17 years, she was at the top. About 17 years. And during that time, no number two in Japan ever made it out of Japan. So for 17 years,

you know, the 48 kilo category was just totally dominated by one person in Japan. And nobody else had a chance nobody else had a chance sad a little bit yeah it's sad so now nature of sports you know now it's great now you can kind of send the number two sometimes you get a number five in there yeah exactly each country has the opportunity to even go international we have a chance to see them

because of the internet and the ijf yeah video stuff it Yeah. Back then, the only thing we had was fighting films which was in VHS, you know. I had those. Yeah. 120 poems. Yes, exactly. And we watched it

religiously, right? I mean, that's the only source. That's the only source of judo videos. I remember the 95 Worlds I had it on VHS and I watched it

over and over so if you fought in it you might have been on it yeah but you know i didn't do well in 95 so i i lost in the first round in 95 but um but in 93 i did i did well uh 93 i i won my first match then uh against an african guy then in my second match i met the olympic champion uh guzainov so i lost to him but he pulled me up the repercharge because he made it to the right different tournament system back yeah so because he he made it to the final he pulled everybody else that he beat into the repercharge that's right and then and then uh so i was so we uh my, my mat site coach, this, the German guy who, you know, that I told you the number two guy, Hans-Jörg Opp, he, he, he went, he's my friend.

He, we trained together and he went, he flew over to be my mat site coach. So we were looking at it and he said that, he said, look, you know, if you, if you can win one match in the, in the repertoire, you're number 11. Right. And then, but, you know, my first match was against the European champion, and I lost to him. So I ended up, in the final ranking, I ended up 13th.

That's pretty good, man. You could say you were 13th in the world. At one time. At one time. It's amazing, though, man. That's a nice little thing. No one could take that from me. It's amazing. Yeah. So the guy who championed me in Malaysia, you know he he could go back and and say look i i did the right thing and so yeah yeah we all need that help right yeah so you you fought in which which world i fought in uh 2010 and 2011 right so that's that's 2010 was in Japan.

Yep, that's right. And 2011 was in France. In France. Man, I can't believe you remember that. Well, yeah. Well, I was there in France.

I was there in Paris. That was amazing. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. So do you still just go out to these things just to watch and hang out?

I mean, obviously now it's with the pandemic different, but did you used to just go to hang out too to watch and hang out? I mean, obviously now it's with the pandemic different, but did you used to just go to hang out too? Because I saw a picture of you, Neil Adams, and there was another. Mike Swain as well. Yeah, there was a picture online of you. Yeah.

No, you know, I used to go out to a lot of these world events under the auspices of the IJF because I did work for them, right? That's right. So I used to, together with David Finch who's a world famous photographer we used to do these ebooks for the IJF so like the the 2013 world championships in in Rio that was our first project so we went there he David shot the pictures and I I wrote the stories and we put together an e-book for the igf which they gave up for free this e-book so so we did that in 2013 2014 2015 and 2018 oh man so that's pretty cool

that must have been really cool yeah so you know they they paid for our you know our trip there and we didn't get paid for the work but we got paid you know for for the flight and for the hotel and everything which is which was a lot and they allowed me to and you know ijf's growing a lot too you know back 20 years ago it's not the same i don't want to say company but it's not the same organization of what it is now really yeah which is a kind of a global powerhouse in sports you know i mean of course we're not talking like nfl status but like we're judo's getting up there yeah ijf wise in the international circuit. Yeah.

They're doing everything right, I think, you know. Yeah, I mean, you know, credit must be given to Marius Wieser, you know,

ever since he, ever since he became president, he really changed, you know, he turned things around, and the IJF now has money, you know, before that it had no money,

and, you know, before that there wasn't, I mean, there was the internet, but there wasn't all this IJF coverage. You know, before that, it had no money. And, you know, before that, there wasn't, I mean, there was the internet, but there wasn't all this IGF coverage, you know,

YouTube, and all this. That's true. Yeah, so he did all that. Yeah, yeah. So during the time period,

right, up and coming through your competition days, I kind of want to go back to your competition days. Sure, sure. What was some of your

biggest, most memorable matches like competition-wise? And then, who was your hero back in the day? Right. Just because like,

we're talking about an era. I don't want to kind of go too deep into like, IJF now. Right, right. People talking about, you know, Korean Seinagi,

this and that, leg grab band. Yeah. Before we go into all that stuff, let's chat about that. I guess the most memorable competition

for me was actually a local or a domestic Malaysian one because you know I had done well in the 93 world championships got 13th in the world so suddenly in Malaysia they knew me sorry 1993

1993 world championships 1993 1993 world championships Malaysia, they knew me. Sorry, 1993, 1993 World Championships. I said 2013, 1993, 1993 World Championships. So suddenly in Malaysia, they knew me. Before that, they didn't know me, right? So this guy did well in the world. And so they, in 1994, they invited me to fly back to Malaysia. They paid all expenses paid, you know, for my flight and everything. And they said, come back and compete in the nationals. You know, because previously, I never showed my face in Malaysia, right? I was in the United States.

So I went back and then I thought I'd be competing at my weight class, 60 kilos, right? And then when I saw the draw, yeah, I was registered for the 60 kilos, but they had then when I saw the draw, I was registered for the 60 kilos, but they had also put me in the open. So back then, there was the open weight category, right?

That's right. But usually, the open weights are all heavyweights, right? Usually, it's all heavyweights. Always, yeah. It's never a small guy in there. The smallest guy you get is like 90 or 81. Exactly. Although recently, the All Japans,

I think Takato took part in it. And Nagayama, I think they took part in it. Yeah, I saw those guys. Fighting big guys. So it's a very Japanese thing. So these guys, they registered me into the Open. And I was like, I'm a 60 kilo fighter. I mean, these guys are

100 kilos and and but you know they had paid for my flight to malaysia so i can't really say no so so i i and and it was all held on the same day so i had to fight on one you know i had to fight one mat fighting the 60 kilos then run over and fight the open weight matches, and then go back to the 60 kilo. And so I was fighting two categories on the same day. And I won the 60 kilos, okay? But then, to my own surprise, I made it to the final, the open weight. So, yeah. And along the way, I beat the plus 100 kilo guys.

I beat the defending champion who was 86 kilos at the time. He was 86. And the guy that I actually fought in the open weight final was actually not a very heavy guy. He was 78 kilos. But I was 60 kilos. And I couldn't throw him And in the end

It was It was Yuko Yuko each And maybe because of penalties And Because back then In the day

Do you remember When you get a Chuwi The other fella gets a yuko Back in the Oh that's right If you get a penalty The other person gets a score

I remember that So it was It was equal scores Yuko each And they went to Referees Hante Referees Decision That's right They used to decide Three flags right Three flags gets a score. I remember that. So it was equal scores, equal each, and they went to referees' hantai, referees' decision.

That's right, they used to decide three flags, right? Three flags. So he won the hantai. So, you know, I failed. Was it three?

How many flags went up? It was 3-0. It was 3-0. I mean, to be... There's a lot of biases for the bigger guys too. Well, to be fair,

I couldn't throw him. I wasn't able to throw him. And so, you know, I failed to make him. I wasn't able to throw him. So, you know, I failed to make history. I would have made history in Malaysia as a 60-kilo fighter. You made history. Sort of. Nobody that light ever got to the final.

But that was the most memorable. And, you know, because of my good performance there, they actually entered me. They actually put my name forward for the asian games in hiroshima japan but but but because i had fought in the open weight i injured my knee and had to go to hospital and had to i had to i had to miss the asian games so i i missed my chance to compete in the asian games so well but you know so then what happened after that so you started is there a time when

you were like all right i'm done i'm gonna retire well you know so what happened was that after that i graduated right in in in 95 i graduated yeah and i i moved to england i moved to england to work for epon books the the oh wow okay yeah so you know i i was starting a full career at that time and uh you know in publishing publishing judo books and and that was great but then you know, I was starting a full career at that time. And, you know, in publishing judo books. And that was great. But then, you know, I still had harbored ambitions to do well in the world championships. You know, I felt I could have done better. So I worked in the daytime and I trained in the evening.

Right? But it wasn't enough. And, you know, in the 95 world championships in tokyo i you know i i flamed out i the first round i lost in the first round so after that i realized okay my competition days are over you know so i retired after that yeah and it never goes away right maybe one more shot always always even now maybe yeah like maybe i'll cut down and uh fight at the national championship have you thought of that you could still fight you could still fight yeah you know i'm 37 now i'm getting to a point where my knees hurt my back's hurt

everything hurts yeah a little bit too heavy yeah everything hurts because you know judo is a rough sport it is it is you know especially if you do it at a high level it's very taxing on your body but but do you think if you really got back into shape you could still do it right you could still do it no I know I could definitely compete at a higher you know high national level yeah probably you know win some you know not so very difficult international yeah I don't say win but like I could you know what matches there yeah a lot of it is dependent on like you know you go out there what kind of draw you get yeah how many competitions you go once you start climbing the ranking list and you get a seed and then you get somebody

yeah that's from malaysia yeah exactly i'm kidding i'm sorry i'm kidding you know you get a smaller judo country and those are kind of nice because then you know you still get points for those wins yeah true so can i still do that you know yes but like do i have aspirations to like you know can i give up my life and train full time and try to make an Olympic team? You know, I'm not in a place to be able to do that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially with a kid. Yeah, yeah.

You have a daughter. Yeah. So you, you know, you're starting a business now. I mean, well, you've been running a business, but you're doing online business. Yeah, a little bit online. You know, you're instrumental in that you're helping me greatly so if you guys watch some of these clips that are uh mined from my youtube on my instagram like un is the person behind it he's the one writing the captions underneath it right so me and un have sort of a working relationship too and a lot of

the stuff that you see online that have judo captions and judo writings scribbled underneath is, you know, product of OONs as well. So inadvertently, I'm sure there's many, many things that you've probably read as listeners about judo that OON has directly written.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people have seen stuff from Judo Crazy, you know, the Facebook page especially. That one has about over 70,000 followers, you know, the Facebook page especially. That one has about over 70,000 followers, you know. And I've never advertised or anything, you know.

I mean, these are, yeah, so just people who follow. Yeah, but, you know, hopefully. So tell me about some of your products, right? So you have like a Judo Crazy, it's a blog mostly. First and foremost, it's a blog. Yeah, yeah. You know, I did, right before the Olympics, I did try to create a judo crazy website,

a full-blown website with many different, you know, many different menus and many different sections and stuff like that. You know, it was very ambitious. And then, you know, I wanted to get it out right before the Olympics because I wanted to put Olympic coverage on there. And I did do that.

But then after that, you know, work got into the way. That thing is sort of in limbo right now. I've not really updated it, but I plan to. Also, we've spoken about maybe creating new products and stuff like that. So hopefully, Yeah, for sure. For sure we'll do that this year. Yeah. I mean, I remember, I think you wrote an article something like,

maybe I'm wrong, but like, who Dariya Billa did is dating now or something. Is that you or somebody else? That wasn't me. That wasn't me. Oh, okay.

I write those articles. I will read those articles. I usually write about IGF competitions but but but sometimes I write about

controversial stuff as well you know like the rules you know not even controversial but right like the story like whenever you watch tennis

you know I mean I don't really watch sports but like if you watch tennis me neither if you watch any or consume any of the products it's like there's always a story right

Michael Jordan wore the shoe and it was banned by the NBA that's why like everybody buys these sneakers $2,000 you know maybe that's a bad example but like you know that tennis guy that get kicked out of Australia yeah I'm not taking a vaccine there's all these like cool backstories about these athletes because they're human yeah yeah yeah right we want to read about that once we read that story right billet is dating the italian dude now you know they both win a medal together it's like oh that's like then you could follow them on their instagram they're not together anymore by the way you know oh all right

see that's the juicy stuff that i want to hear a long time ago you gotta write about that they broke up a long time ago but uh yeah no there's some interesting stuff i mean there are a lot of scandals in judo as well you know the igf doesn't like to doesn't doesn't like to uh you know talk about this but you know there are a couple of i mean you you know about this you know peter seisenbacher for example who was a igf you know okay double olympic champion double olympic champion from uh from austria he was actually an IGF Hall of Famer at one time. But he's been convicted, actually, and he's in jail right now for some sexual,

I think, molestation or something of minors or something like that. Something like that. Holy moly. And, you know, Wang Kichun, right now, I think he's in jail because of... Wang Kichun right now i think he's in jail uh because of wang kichun young wang kichun is in jail from korea yeah yeah yeah double four some some sexual thing as well you know man the sexual stuff's gotta go yeah well there was there was uchi shiba

from from uh the double olympic champion you, he was in jail for rape. Yeah, I know that story pretty well because he's a Kokushikan guy. Right, right. So it made a lot of waves. And you know, actually, he's been making his... He went to jail and he's out now. BJJ, right?

He's doing BJJ or something like that. He's doing BJJ, but he's still kind of doing judo because there's a Japanese judo YouTuber who's taken off in popularity in Japan. This guy, Kawabata. Okay. Ryo Kawabata.

And he does a lot of funny stuff. You guys have probably seen videos of him going up against a bodybuilder. And he's a lightweight. He's like 60, 66. So he has a lot of these viral videos. And he went to see Uchishiba because they were friends in college back in the day. He was a senpai. And then so they like work out and do randori, you know,

and it's like, I don't know. So, you know, I'm seeing him kind of like re-enter. But they took away his belt. They took away his medal. He's not allowed to have any affiliations with judo in Japan. Right, right. Same with Won Ki-joon. He's been stripped of any judo involvement in Korea, you know,

because of his conviction. But, you know, these guys, I have to say, they really, really give judo a bad name, you know. I mean, terrible, man, terrible. I mean, you know, judo is supposed to be about morality and, you know, good values. And these guys, I mean, they're great champions. They had great results

but they really give judo a bad name and it's really shameful. Yeah, I hate that. Yeah. I wish it wasn't like that. Yeah, so you can talk about positive stuff too.

Like, oh, this guy's doing this or this guy's doing that. Former champions. When there's a backstory and they're relatable, stuff too right i mean like oh this guy's doing this or this guy's doing that you know former champions uh when there's a backstory and they're relatable yeah i think that it's a lot easier to follow you know when i when you go online and i say hey guys ijf tour is happening you know go check it out live and they don't know or recognize anybody right no there's no personal connection yeah so well i think that's something you have to really get this stuff going. Yeah,

I think that in the world of judo, we don't really have that many judo heroes. Right? I mean, there are a few like, everybody knows

Shohei Ono, everybody knows Teddy Renier, but, you know, we don't really have a lot of judo heroes. Whereas in other sports,

basketball, you know, baseball, football, golf, tennis, other sports basketball you know baseball football uh golf tennis uh even cycling you know you had lance armstrong before he was disgraced you know you had super superstars that everybody knew but not in judo you know judo you don't really have a lot of heroes right i mean even somebody as famous as neil. I mean, everybody in judo knows him. But people outside of judo wouldn't know him.

You know? No. But I think it's changing a little bit. Like, Renier in France is probably one of the most recognizable athletes in France. In France. Yeah, in France. Yeah, true. Yeah, and I mean, I've heard stories like Ariel Zevi,

who was the first European champ for Israel. Yeah. He was, you know was somebody I competed against and supposedly he was a celebrity over there. He walked down the street and was like, oh shoot, everybody knows this guy. Depending on the place, hopefully he changes for the better.

I'm curious, in America, would the average person know Kayla Harrison? She's a double Olympic champion. Well, Kayla Harrison is different for the MMA. Because of the MMA. Not because of the judo, right? And it's the same with Ronda Rousey. She's known more for the MMA than the judo.

Yes, that's correct. She's got coverage. But that's why I have to give credit where it's due for the advisor trying to make judo like a mainstream spectator-friendly sport. And that's partially the reason why he's doing all these different rule changes, data-driven rule changes. And I get that. Matches used to be crazy long. He's like last minute, four to five minutes.

No one's throwing anyone. It's really boring. Bad for the sport. Four-minute matches. People are like, what the hell? This is a combat sport, this and that. And they make their arguments, but it's better for spectators if the matches are shorter.

It's true, it's true, it's true. And initially, I didn't like the leg grab ban because I was a leg grabber. I used to do the side take down. So I was kind of upset when they first banned the leg grab. But, you know, in retrospect, when I look back at it, I think it's a good thing. It's made judo more upright.

Yeah, probably a good thing. Yeah, it's made judo more upright. But, you know, I don't like the recent ban on the reverse seoi nage. I'm sure you don't like it either. You like the reverse seoi nage, right? I'm mixed about it. You know, I use it. I do it. But it kind of puts me at ease that no one's going to go for it and break my arm now.

That's kind of nice. Yeah. Well, do you really think it's dangerous, though? Do you think it's dangerous? It is dangerous. All of Judo is dangerous. Yeah. All of Judo is dangerous.

That's the thing. So are you going to ban Taniya Toshi? Are you going to ban... Taniya Toshi? Are you going to ban... Taniya Toshi is already banned in my dojo. I know that. I know that. It's so dangerous. There are many techniques that are dangerous.

If they wanted to ban reverse seianage, why don't they ban the one-handed sode, which causes elbow injury a lot of times, the one-handed sode. Sure. Sometimes it ends up being a kind of times, the one-handed Sode. Sure. Sometimes it ends up being a kind of like walking a tummy. A little bit, yeah. A little bit.

But at least it's one hand to one hand. For me and Sienagi, you go here and then you connect two hands and then the arm is linked in between and then you go into it with your whole body. I guess you could make those arguments for everything. Yeah, true. But when you look at Ang Chan Rim andbao and all those guys who do it right they do it so smoothly they do it safely and they do it safely i've never seen them injure anybody you know i've

never seen them injure anybody with it so and they do it so beautifully you know it's just when you when you look at it actually the reverse yonagi is one of the most beautiful throws in judo I think you know when it's gorgeous it's absolutely gorgeous

it's such a shame but can you imagine a big strong 90 kilo guy who's like a green belt trying it on a brand new guy who's never been to the dojo and rip it into that arm

right right I could see injuries happening there yeah but you know that could also happen with other techniques right there are other techniques, right?

There are other techniques where... That's true. I mean, if that same guy did a Soto Makikomi on a beginner, he'll crack the guy's ribs. That's very true.

So... So, you've been around judo for a very long time, you know, 15, 20 years, and you've been really involved with the IJF in the capacity of, you know,

back-end stuff, writing stuff, content creation, but you follow this stuff like a fan. You really do. I don't content creation, but you follow this stuff like a fan. You really do. I don't know that many people that follow this stuff like a fan, especially with the scrutiny over a very long period of time.

Yeah. Yeah. So how has like the IJF, I don't want to say product, but like you as a spectator, as a consumer of this spectacle, right? How has it changed and where do you think it's going and what do you think they should do? spectacle. How has it changed and where do you think it's going and what do you think they should do?

I think the good thing that they've done since I would say around 2010 2011 onwards they've put a lot of the matches online on YouTube. Almost everything.

Almost every major Grand Prix, Grand Slam. They put everything on there. uh almost almost everything almost everything almost every major uh yeah grand prix grand slam they put everything on there right so that's good yeah but you know i i think that well a lot of it is just raw footage right a lot of this raw footage yeah and a lot of people don't like to watch raw footage they want to see the problem no i don't like to watch yeah it's too long yeah exactly it's too long i don't know about this it. It's too long. Yeah, exactly. It's too long. I don't know about this guy.

I don't know about that girl. Yeah, exactly. I can't follow this. This person's dropping and flopping. Yeah. You know, average person has no clue, you know, about the gripping stuff.

So it's not fun for them. Yeah. And you know, so... I can't follow it for more than 10 minutes. Exactly. I remember asking you about that, whether you follow,

you know, IGF, you know... Yeah. I watch highlights. Highlights, whether you follow IJF. I watch highlights. Highlights, exactly. So they do, for every IJF event, they do create a short highlights thing at the end. Yes, I watch that. But I just feel that it would be great if there were more products, more programs created from these raw materials.

But I guess they don't have the people to do it, or if they wanted to outsource it, maybe it's too costly. But why isn't there the best of Teddy Renier? Sorry about this. It's okay. Yeah, the best of Teddy Renier, best Ipons from Teddy Renier, or... Sorry about this. It's okay. Yeah, you know, the best of Teddy Renier, you know, best Ipons from Teddy Renier. Why doesn't the IGF put that together? Or, you know, best Uchimata.

So, you know, and so on. I think people would love to watch that. I mean, there's a lot of it on YouTube done by different vloggers and all that. But, you know know a really professionally produced edited product would be would be great you know rather than just yeah just highlights just highlights that's all we'll be you know so yeah yeah maybe a colorful commentator like uh me to sit across from neil adams to balance out his british accent with a new york accent you know

maybe that no one will listen to it i got british accent new york accent like oh man i can't listen to this that that would be good that would be good but uh yeah so you know i i actually that's interesting you know that you should mention that because a couple of years ago a friend of mine who who does the it stuff for for the igf they were trying to experiment with getting different commentators from different continents, you know, one from Africa, one from Asia, one from Europe to, to, to try to, they were, they were experimenting with that. And I don't know what happened to it. It just never, it never took off. It never, it never happened, but they were toying with the idea of you know what would happen if if if we had

different commentators maybe even in different languages you know and uh yeah that'd be amazing yeah but but it never happened it never happened but uh yeah but but but having said that i i love neil adams commentary you know i mean i'm a i'm a. He's really good at that, right? He's really good at that. Big fan. Yeah. Yeah. So... Oh, Uchimata. He's just so exciting, you know? He's just so exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know? You can hear the passion, you know? You can hear the passion. Loves this stuff. Compared to the other commentators who were like, you know, kind of droning along and just citing statistics.

But he's like so exciting, you know? Yeah. Yeah, he is. Yeah. So. But he's like so exciting, you know? Yeah. Yeah, he is. Yeah. So, so what's next for you, man? I know you said you, you know,

Malaysia is still kind of in a COVID lockdown situation. Well, what is next? Well, we're not in a lockdown anymore, but I mean, we're,

there are still restrictions and stuff like that. Like, you know, we have to, everybody has to wear masks when they're outside. And, you know uh uh we have to everybody has to wear masks when they're outside and uh you know the social distancing requirements when you're eating and stuff like that but we're allowed to do judo so so there's been some judo going on uh well both

you and i you know we ran judo clubs and we were both badly affected by the pandemic I mean really badly affected I mean I know you you had a a GoFundMe campaign to help save your judo judo club and it actually

it actually worked you managed to raise quite a bit of money yeah yeah that was I was very grateful yeah

and I mean would your club have survived if you didn't have that GoFundMe campaign? Probably. There's many factors to it. Negotiating the rent. I don't want to say negotiating the rent, but asking for a break or pushing it back or communicating these things. I don't know, man.

I want to say yes. I want to say yes. But, you know, if the landlord or the building was like, no, you know, we want all the rent full. Yeah. You know, and they were not willing to work with me, then we probably would have lost that, you know. So I don't know.

It's tough to say. It's tough to say. But the GoFundMe kind of saved your club or yeah it helped it definitely helped man it didn't hurt right

yeah right yeah I know that Sasaki guy fella that fella in Florida yeah

he did a GoFundMe thing as well and I think it saved his club you know and yeah I think a lot of people needed to do it yeah you know we didn't really pivot and lot of people needed to do it. Yeah.

You know, we didn't really pivot and do Zoom classes because I didn't really believe in judo on Zoom. Right. And, you know, a lot of people were asking me about it to do these Zoom classes. And, you know, I did a few and I was like, I don't believe in this. Right. And, you know, in hindsight, you know, there's no regrets really with that. Right, right. Because I believe that it was not going to be the same product as me being in the room with the people.

Right. And I use it as a time to kind of double down on my time with my kid. And I have zero regrets about that. Right, right. But you had to rebuild your club almost from scratch, right? Oh, yeah. Rebuild from scratch. We're still probably in terms of gross receipts and revenue.

We're probably still like 40% of the way there. Wow. Wow. Yeah, because with the kids program, the way it is, we definitely did trim and I took a haircut and so many different expenses and all this stuff. But it goes up and down, business always. Business is always cyclical. I think we weathered the storm this far, so I think we're going to be okay. Right.

and I think we weathered the storm this far so I think we're going to be okay. Maybe, you know, the next variant is, you know, the most benign thing we've ever seen and it just gives us immunity forever.

Who knows? Who knows? And then, you know, everyone comes back to Judah. Because there's also clubs that went under. Clubs, gyms, a lot of small business

service related things that are gone now. I think a lot of clubs. Yeah, a lot of clubs. Do you know anybody whose club had to close down I knew I know a few

yeah I know a bunch I know a bunch yeah I spoke to a guy yesterday he's like I'm losing my club right and he's gonna try to sell his building and move out you had a guy on your podcast

I can't remember his name right now but he's a friend of yours who he was doing a GoFundMe as well to save his club do you recall yeah that guy

yeah yeah Joe right yeah Joe Carrizo how save his club. Do you recall? Yeah. That guy? Yeah, Joe. Right. Yeah, Joe Carrizo. How's his club? He's suffering. Yeah, he's suffering. Right, right, right. That's the guy I'm talking about.

He's going to sell his building and he's out. Really? He bought the building that his dojo is housed in. Right, right. He owned that space. Right. So he's going to sell that building and he's going to be out and he's probably going to teach judo elsewhere or start anew.

He's going to start anew. Right, right. Yeah, but he was definitely hit hard by the pandemic especially with the location that he was in in staten island it's kind of a different crowd than you know we are here and even within new york there's different pockets of places with different views and he came uh and it was a tough time for him yeah as for you too i'm sure yeah well i mean the thing is that you know not everybody can do a gofundme right i mean sasaki he he's he's a character right i mean he's such a personality so you know so so so people and and you are you're pretty famous because of your uh youtube and and your so you know your personality as well so you do that, but not everybody could do that. You know, I don't think any,

you know, actually very few dojo owners, I think could successfully do a GoFundMe. I couldn't have done it. You know? So for me, I had to do Zoom classes, you know,

because number one, my club is a lot smaller. I had to retain whoever I could retain, you know, and the way to retain your members during this pandemic is, is, is, you know and the way to to retain your members uh during this pandemic is is you know to keep them engaged i had to keep them engaged right uh rather than nothing at all so we did a whole bunch of things like when they allowed outdoors training with social distancing we did that we went to the park yeah and we just did you know i mean we couldn't

we couldn't do full contact so we we had to do, you know, shadow Uchikomi together as a group. And when that wasn't allowed, we did Zoom, you know, and we did Zoom. But I needed to do that to keep my members engaged and to stay with the club.

So the few members that I had, Very noble of you. They did. Well, you know, they were very grateful though, you know, because Malaysia was under... Some kind. They did. Well, you know, they were very grateful though, you know, because Malaysia was under some kind of normalcy.

Well, you know, Malaysia was under a very severe lockdown. I don't know how severe it was at New York at its peak, but you know, there was a point

where we just couldn't go, couldn't leave our houses except to buy groceries. Yeah. You know, did they ever lock down that hard in New York? No,

not really. Not really? We were still pretty locked down. We weren't allowed to have dojo open. Right. Gyms were closed. Right, right.

We were sending inspectors making, you know, all sorts of, you know, not threats, but, we were going to send inspectors

this and that, you know, it was a crazy time. Yeah, so in Malaysia, there was a period where you couldn't even leave your house

except for, you know, to see a doctor or to go buy groceries, right? So people were locked in into their houses where you couldn't even leave your house except for, you know, to see a doctor or to go buy groceries, right? So people were locked in into their houses. They couldn't meet other people. They couldn't do exercise outside. There was a point where we weren't even allowed to jog alone.

You weren't even allowed to jog, right? So having that Zoom gave them, you know, an hour of exercise, you know, with other people. Because it's hard to exercise on your own. And so with your instructor there telling you what to do, then you'll do it. So we had our different ways of keeping our dojo alive. But we're still here, right? I still run my club.

You still run your club. That's good. Exactly. So if you're listening to this and you're in Malaysia, go check out dojo that's a big one yeah and then uh parting words do you have any things that you want to plug uh well just future products that we are going to do together right because you yeah we're going to do some books together yeah books and videos has been working on the video stuff together yeah

a lot of my youtube now it's been cutting it together so if you have complaints send un an email we're gonna we're gonna try to do well i'm doing we're doing pretty interesting things with the reels the reels on instagram is getting uh good traction definitely the reels right just short clips a lot of igf action that's where i specialize so i've been putting that together for you but uh yeah you know uh you you i mean you have your teachable platform where you have a few products out there now i i think there should be more products so hopefully this year we'll be able to roll out more products there i got a book for you right there we'll sell on teachable unyale the giant killer no we'll we'll we'll do something with david finch yeah we'll do something with David feature we'll do

something that the fields do something cool yeah this is cool all right yeah man thank you for coming on thanks greatly appreciate it if you're listening to this you know please reach out to us on our discord we have a patreon situation and you guys can you know if you like this sort of interview style thing I try not to do like the interview thing so much because, you know, I don't want to be reliant on booking guests and this and the schedule. And it's just me and Peter just coming on, you know, talking about judo, right? But if you like this, you know, we'll do more of it.

And if you want him back, let us know and we'll have him back. And then we talk a little bit more about, you know, IJF, right? That could be a fun segment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We watch the IJF segment and we talk about it. Hey, you know know this new person is the champion and he's dating him or her or whatever it is

they just broke up so we'll make it fun and relevant we'll have the IJF video in the middle maybe we can try alright thank you very much for listening see you guys next time

thanks for having me