The Shintaro Higashi Show - Japanese Technique Names

Episode Date: December 3, 2020

In this episode, Shintaro and Peter discuss the pros and cons of using Japanese technique names in Judo and other martial arts. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hey guys, what's going on? Welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today we're going to talk about Japanese technique names in martial arts. So Peter was browsing Reddit, as he usually does, he loves Reddit, and he came across this thread saying that the BJJ guys are like, hey man, we shouldn't be forced to learn Japanese, it's not fair to us non-native Japanese speakers. And we want to talk a littlenative Japanese speakers, right? And we want to talk a little bit about that, right, Peter? Yeah, and I think that has some merit in it because, you know, when I learned judo in Korea,

Korea actually translates all the technique names in Korean. So although when you go internationally, they say, oh, you need to learn the Japanese name. Within Korea, they use Korean names that are, you know, basically descriptive in a way. So what about like Osorogari? What would that be? Major outside reap in English. Yeah. Right.

Direct translation. What would it be in Korean? It would be Battari Hurigi. Battari means like the outer. It just means outer like reap in a way um so it has a it it is descriptive it has a system uh so you so that people can kind of figure out what what the uh the technique could mean or the name mean but um i think a lot of times that America that people have trouble with that too right because you know if you say Osotogaru if you don't know Japanese it just it's it's just not that approachable for the beginner. You know I don't buy

that argument because it's like alright if you went to Japan and said to an average person that doesn't do judo it's like hey what's going on Kesa gatame right people gonna be likeesa gatame right people gonna be like what gatame some kind of hold but like you know scarf hold like what that means nothing to them right so it's like whether you're learning the word kesa gatame or if you learn the word scarf hold in english right if someone walks in their beginner it's like hey we're gonna do major outside reap okay buddy you know it's not gonna mean anything to that

right right you know I think it I don't buy that argument you bring up a good point because in the BJJ world too a lot of times

the technique names are not even that descriptive like they put the names of the the technicians like Ezekiel Choke or Kimura oh that's like Ezekiel choke. Oh that's right.

Kimura. Which is Sodegru Majime actually. Yeah. Which means. Kimura Udegarami. Sodegru Majime is Sleeve Wheel Choke. Yeah. Which is kind of, if you know what the Ezekiel choke is, you can kind of figure out why they

named it that way. And Udegarami meansame means you know the wrist hold right yeah arm entanglement arm entanglement yeah so wudegarame arm entanglement ashigarami leg entanglement yeah exactly confused myself yeah so i think that is so what they call like nomenclature right the you know yeah um there's a rule of naming and then i think that's very important a lot of people kind of miss the point of that um why uh that was like kano decided to make that system the nomenclature and i think i personally i think that is the biggest uh contribution kano made to the martial art world he biggest wow that's a major major major it's not comments right there

that's i think that is the biggest because biggest wow not the belt systems i think yeah belt system yeah i guess but i think i think this far outweighs the bell system because in every field, it doesn't matter. Because I'm a researcher, right? a field be it judo physics computer science artificial intelligence there's a there are moments in in the history where people usually what happens that people have disjoint ideas with different words for these disjoint ideas and then someone comes around and tries to unify the ideas so that so that a lot of these different schools of thought can exchange their ideas together and that's when the field as a whole moves forward it makes you know leaps and bounds in terms of like improvements and whatnot and then that's what Kano did I think you know feudal Japan coming out and then being more modernized and then yeah there were just different jujitsu schools yeah scattered

around and they had different ideas about how to fight but Kano came around and then studied everything and then established essentially like the standard model of grappling and martial art which allowed other Jujitsu schools to have a standard language, unified vocabulary to talk to each other and then exchange ideas. So before that there wasn't a unified language of like oh this is the strike and this is that and this is named this like there was no nomenclature that was sort of across the

board i mean it's a lot easier now right with the internet times and people being connected but yeah i guess you could make that argument you know yeah because if you i'll talk about artificial intelligence because i just know they feel better. But like when in computer science, when it first started, like people in the 50, I'm talking about 1950s and they didn't even know about what it means for something to be computable. As in like,

can we even compute this? Like if we specify an algorithm, meaning just a series of steps that a machine can follow can a machine follow the steps and solve this problem that's and not but in the in back in the 50s no one had a precise definition of that so they couldn't talk about it about the problem because they didn't even know it so for example like in the same sense like let's take osutogari as an example yeah major auto reap yeah i'm sure this this school of jiu-jitsu has a different way of doing it and then they they may not even call it a major auto reap but then and then another school have a different has a different idea about that throw and then those two schools can't even really

talk about whose is better or who you know which way is better or not because they just can't even agree on what osoto gari is yeah so i think i hear a lot of arguments about how judo throws are like not not practical or like you know the in in like street fight because there's people don't wear geese and whatnot but i think what carano did was yeah let's standardize things sure everyone puts on a gi yeah and then this is how a otogari looks then people at least has have an idea of what a standard otogari is and then they can use that as a platform to talk about oh how can we modify the standard otogari yeah to apply to the street situation or the MMA situation. Okay, yeah. So Kano made these names and that's the biggest contribution to martial arts by Kano. I don't know about that Peter. I gotta tell you man like

it's nice to have the belt structure, the intrinsic motivation, the action motivation and then having that and then having like a grappling... I don't know about that. I don't know about that i don't know about that but i respect your opinion well why do you think why do you think the uh the it seems like you you you think his biggest contribution is the belt system or what i didn't say that i didn't say i think there's a lot of stuff that kind of contributed to society for instance like integrating japan after like a period of isolation like that's a big one you know what i mean like they're kind of like all right

you know japan was kind of messed up it was isolated we need to bring japan back into the world economy and helping them do that and now because of that there's toyota nissan and all these different major corporations right so it's like all right, he pushed Japan to this direction through sport and politics, right? To make it like this, I don't know, the third biggest country by GDP on this planet. Right. I feel like that's a little bit more important than like saying like, this is Osoro, that's Taitoshi. Well, I do agree.

I mean, I... Yeah. Or maybe you said martial arts. Yeah. But I meant for the martial arts specifically. Yeah. I think... Yeah. How about martial arts being sort of an education system and then it being part of the Olympic movement so that it's no longer Oh martial arts to

kill somebody or to maim somebody or you know when you lose your sword in combat you know you want to be able to fight somebody now all of a sudden right this, like, hey, it can be trained as a sport to develop your mind and body. Because it's good for kids to get taken down and then to learn to get back up. That's a big contribution, too, man. I think, yeah, yeah. Instead of, like, this is Ko Uchigari, minor inside reap. No, it's not a reap. Trip.

Or whatever. Yeah. Well, Kano, that was his goal i guess but yeah i i think you're right that's that's the biggest goal he had and yeah but i think the you know establishing the normal nomenclature is the yeah it is the one like yeah concrete step he took yeah and then i think i i'm i'm speaking as an outsider looking into the uh the another popular martial art bjj and i think bjj needs that kind of figure now and then i think the the whole martial art is maturing it's um yeah it's globally expanding yeah i did a little research because i work for this company fuji now uh you know when the for those of you who don't know when the pandemic happened and the shutdowns happened i was really freaked out that both my dojos might not make it right so i had to go out and get a job i started working for fuji

the gi company and one of my first tasks was like all right let's do some market sizing for the global market for gis and things like this and i did a little bit of research and then you know ijf has their number of 20 million judoka in the world and then i came up with a number for brazilian jiu-jitsu it's probably 10 million on a global market right and then you know gi grappling together is 30 million and now it's really really increasing on the brazilian jiu-jitsu front especially in europe you know what i mean so yeah it really is important i think and i think they're going in that direction because they want to be legitimized they have the ibjjf now and they want to get into the olympics eventually as is sambo right sambo is trying to make a push for it to be like they're kind of pulling away from combat sambo on the mma front because the

olympic doesn't like it right they're really trying to push this like uh other grappling arts so it's like combo combat uh sambo's really increasing popularity bjj is increasing in popularity and i think you're right it is very important for those guys to have a sort of a language yeah i think it does come down to the language because now I know they're like 10th planet jiu-jitsu there I think they have their own nomenclature Yeah, I think the Greece is probably do and then I think yeah, Danny her He's

Apparently he's I what I heard is that he's a big fan of the japanese names i guess he's just kind of saying why why he said i should drop me this and yeah yeah why reinvent the wheel when you know kano did all the work so i i'm very curious on what they how this will come about because and another thing is that it seems like the root of BJJ is more grassroots than judo. I think judo was actively supported by the Japanese government in the inception. Like Kano was on the Olympic Committee. And it was more of an organized effort. But BJJ was started by a family. It was all grassroots, and they tried to make things happen

through prize fights and whatnot. So I think there's an element of, I would say, individualistic element in the founding myth, and then a lot of BJJ gyms stick to that. So I wonder how, I feel like people will be more resistant to this effort of standardization which I personally think is very important

so in that way you're for the language I think for the eventually any field like I said any field has to come to this moment like I said computer science in the 50s when Alan Turing and church when they define mathematically what it means to be computable yeah that that's when

people could really start thinking about the problem yeah they didn't solve the problem of all the you know they didn't come up with all the algorithms that can compute everything they just defined what it means to be computable so and then so that really led people to think about the problem same way for bjj what it means to be a good grappler in their own eyes they need to define what that is so in that way i'm curious to hear uh what sambo people is are doing because i i know that sambo is pretty much like a national sport in russia right like that is are is there an effort like that i don't know how they describe their throws do they have russian names i don't really know i don't really know

i wish i did but i could speak for jujitsu and judo you know because those are two things that i i'm very familiar with and i think it's really important to have that unified language and then you know for instance like the problem with judo the technique and the language system is that they only name the techniques right right they only name the techniques inside trip outside trip arm throw you know inner thigh throw uh this kind of choke that kind of choke this kind of arm bar and then it takes the context completely out of it you know in japan there's a little bit more Arm throw, inner thigh throw, this kind of choke, that kind of choke, this kind of arm bar. And then it takes the context completely out of it. In Japan, there's a little bit more, right?

Right versus left, right versus right. And I talk about this all the time in my videos. What is the scenario? It's like Osorogari means nothing without knowing if the guy is right versus right or right versus left. Kenka yotsu or ai yotsu, right? I see. You can be more detailed more specific In well, they are more specific in Japan They're a little bit more specific and then you could go into the next tiered stuff, right?

Right, so there's the individual techniques and you have to have that first and foremost develop the second tier contextual stuff Mm-hmm, right? So now I'm talking about like you have the osorogari but what is it right verse right or right verse left okay osorogari in kenkai's position okay now looks a little bit different than the ayotsu right verse right position and brazilian jiu-jitsu brilliantly did this by saying okay this is called the guard right because the guard has been around forever spider guard has been around forever delahiva's been around there's documentation of people doing delahiva in the 40s and 50s in japan you know but they never named it they never named it and everything was ashigurami leg entanglement right so now there's like a standard ashigurami

outside ashigurami you know then you could do the outside sankaku inside sankaku just to name a couple of the different configurations of leg lock positions in bjj and the person who came up with that was john donahue right but if there was no unified like ashigarami system right that one independent thing that he could build context around then it would have never got to that place right you know what i mean so i think it's very important you know the language really matters, right? The way language is structured, it shapes the way people think. It shapes the way how we behave, all these different things.

And the problem with having this system now of this is inside trip, that's outside trip, this is arm throw, is that people only focus on that and then there's no context to really give it. You know what I mean? So if I were to say, you know, a lot of my listeners probably watch my YouTube channel, but it's like, okay, right first right, losing position. I go for a Soto. You know, the guy feels threatened. He goes for a bailout attack, drop lefty Ponce Nagy. Now I'm in the turtle position.

I go for the British strangle, right? I missed a British strangle. Now I'm in back take position. Now I secure my seatbelt grip and now I drop to the weak side to try to isolate an arm. Right? That you could visualize. Right. You know, and there's people, probably if you're anywhere above, like, you know, a year into martial arts, you know, through my system or a school that has the nomenclature.

Right? You could follow that visually in your head. visually right ahead as opposed to like if we only had mm-hmm Ipan Senagi if we only had the British strangle or you know career regime a you wouldn't be able to do that and you wouldn't be able to coach that right you see I mean so we can't do away with what's already there you know there's so much embedded in you know all these different names already we just have to build the context around it we just have to build introduce new uh language and then the people who are at the top who are influencers you know influencers like yourself have to put it out there and say yeah this is the way i speak to my students this is the way to understand to be

able to listen and visualize. Right. So I think it's really important, yeah. So in that way, you think it's better to, for example, BJJ community, to build upon the established Judo Japanese names? I mean, it's already there, right? Right. So why reinvent something completely new for instance I use daughter has example because he's sort of the thought leader in this world now and the leg lock system is a good

example mm-hmm you know what I mean shin to shin inside position and then he you know goes in and ashigarami and then takes the person down and it's already there it's right made the system is good good. Now if we want to add different positions to it, yes. Someone can do that. And then the best one, it's kind of like capitalism, right? The best product gets bought the most and then affects the supply and demand line. You know what I mean? So whoever does it the best is going to become the standard eventually because people are going to copy that.

And I do it once and then that person does it and that person talks about it. And before you know it, everybody is sort of doing something similar. And until someone tweaks it or changes it that really works and that catches on and that name happens, maybe you invent a new joke and it's called the Peter Choke. And everybody is like, hey, I'm in this position i go for the peter you i think that point about so what they call like lingua franca right like the the it's not dropping knowledge today yeah because that's a good for example in computer science i keep going back to because i just that's what i'm most familiar with the language to speak in computer science is english because a lot of the

alan turing was english english speaker a lot of the major breakthroughs came in america in the bell labs in the 60s and 70s so that means if you want to study computer science you got to be able to speak english because all the research papers are written in english all the names are in english yeah so you know chinese researchers japanese researchers korean researchers they pump up quality quality research papers yeah but they have they can't write in their own languages they probably want to because that's but then if if it's really about you know how we exchange ideas and develop as a field so you kind of have to like set aside your nationalist ego i guess in a way i think in the same way it's just the fact it started in judo kano established the standard model so like i said that yeah you have

to set aside that nationalistic ego that's that's excellent and it's true man because there's so much in the japanese judo language that gets sort of overlooked you know what i mean so if you say lapel hand sleeve hand right it's like right hand on the lapel on the opponent's left collar and this it's like it gets too confusing right you know but if they already have a system for instance I o2 okay which is right first right or left first left right it's the two people fighting same-sided right so it's I o2 position 3 tech which is the lapel hand okay so you know it's your right hand you know it's your right hand the opponent's right hand grabbing my left collar grabbing their

left collar you don't have to say left hand right hand this that this that this it's like aiyotsu tsurite yeah there were like more technical names to describe a specific situation it's just they just have to be japanese yeah and, and now they have things that build on it, too For instance like squeezing the Tsurite in an Ayotsu setting right first right Opponent has my collar and I'm squeezing it down To bring their hand down right so I could bring my hand up to gain that advantage, right? Something like this is said in essentially three terms, right? Mm-hmm. Ayotsu Tsurite Shiboru, right three boom right something like this is said in essentially three terms right

right three boom exactly so it's so easy to give that command as opposed to like if i were to do that in english with new terminology you know it's like uh you know right can't invent it i mean i have the direct translation that i use and then then sometimes you'd say, instead of squeeze, you say cut, right? Cut the tsurite. And then you know what? I use the English terms. I don't teach my students, you know, ayotsu, kenkatsu, tsurite, hikite. I don't. And I translated it over to English, right, as you know.

But I kept the attacks after that because it's good. It's already good. Right, right. You know what i mean and then you know you have to have some of the old and some of the new and then my judo system as you've already heard me talk about this many many times it's a blend of both right and there are some things that are unique to my system my nomenclature unique to the dojo that i think is very efficient and beneficial and you know i talk about on my youtube channel right so i think that's just sort of got to be the way yeah you

can't just completely do away with it and you know reinvent everything and reinvent your own language now all of a sudden you go train somewhere else or compete somewhere else or they're trying to give direction the coaching seat and people like no what are you talking about you know right so in that way you talked about you know blending the old and the new so let's kind of talk about judo a little bit so like you mentioned judo's nomenclature kind of lacks for nowaza it's not as detailed as the uh the throwing nomenclature so you think now with the rise of popularity of bjj and whatnot you think you know kodokan or ijf will spend more time standardizing the newaza techniques even more like no you don't think so because the ijf and the those guys aren't really reactive like they're

not looking around saying okay what are all these other guys doing? We should try to compete with them. They have, I don't want to say arrogance, but they're the leaders in the grappling world. Judo is the biggest grappling sport in the world. And you could argue wrestling is much older. Wrestling has been around longer. All these different things. But if you look at a wrestling world championship versus judo world championships the brackets are completely different right you know judo has the the leading leading spot in

terms of country participation right all the different countries participation part of because that global initiative to expand judo well you know what i mean so so they're not really gonna look over their shoulder like oh jiu-jitsu is doing this. Let's us do that. So given that you think they won't do it, you think they should? Do you think they should? You know, I don't think they should because there's not a necessity for it, right? For instance, like in jiu-jitsu, you get rewarded for taking the person's back and putting both hooks in. So it's really important to say, okay, how do we get these hooks in? Okay, go, you know, wrist control and then throw the hook and attack the neck and the person defends the neck that opens up that opposite hook. And then you throw on that opposite hook,

right? So it's important to have that term hook, throwing a hook in there. And judo, you know, when the person misses a throw and they're in the bottom down turtle position, there's no necessity to throw on those hooks, right? I mean, you can, and you will bottom down turtle position there's no necessity to throw in those hooks right i mean you can and you will need to but there's other ways to score now if you miss a throw your belly down you could literally pick the person up off the ground and slam them right right and it's like why wouldn't a big strong athlete do that they would that's going to be their primary go-to now right because of the rule set right so for the person to like put your hooks in because it's points like that's not gonna happen now I see you know there

of course there's gonna be people who do that and implement that kind of strategy but there's no need to right so or for instance like another thing is like open guard position if you miss Toma Nagi you end up in bottom open guard position there's not too much that can potentially happen there because if there is no forward progression you just stand up and by the nature of the conflict of you trying to pass my guard me trying to retain guard it's going to be this like you gain position moving a little bit there really is not going to be like oh the person's you know right if it's very similar in level right so it's like there's no really need to be like oh the person's you know right if it's very similar in level right so it's like

there's no really need to be expanding the terminology in the open guard position to open guards leave the transition to x guard or right why not because there's no time to get to those positions in judo you know i wish the rule sets would favor that kind of a little bit more Nwaza-focused, Nwaza-oriented grapple, like encourage that kind of thing. But, you know, like I always say, the IJF and the International Olympic Committee is worried about spectatorship. Right. They want the – it's an Olympic sport. It needs to be spectator-friendly.

People want to see people get bombed. Right. You know what I mean? So they want to push that kind of a thing. And I don't know if that's right or wrong. People say, hey, that's wrong. Right? It's not really martial anymore.

Yeah. Leg grabs don't make it exciting with the gi because when you get too close, you're locked up upper body and then shooting in the leg is very difficult. People end up shooting from too far out before they put the hands on the gi, which makes for not such a good shot. Now, all of a sudden, two people are fighting defensively because they're both shooting from the outside. And now, you know, it's not as exciting as, you know,

people forcing that upper body thing and getting launched, right? That's not good for self-defense. Yeah, but that's not what it's for. You know, the IJF and the International Olympic Committee doesn't care whether judo is self-defense friendly or not.

You know, they care about their status in the Olympic community and people watching the Olympics, right? Because it's a big revenue driver. There's nothing wrong with that in a way. I mean, that's why they exist, to promote judo as an Olympic sport. I'm digressing, but I don't think they're going to go and be like, this is the guard position, this is half guard position, this is the knee shield. Like, they're just never going to go there.

this is half guard position this is the knee shield like they're just never going to go there yeah it's our job as grapplers me and you you know to learn some of that stuff and then bring some over to judo and then bring some of judo stuff over to bjj and then have like this sort of information sharing situation a collaborative way it's our job it's our job as grapplers we'll we'll definitely we'll have we'll dedicate an episode about the whole leg wrap situation in the future. And I think it's a fascinating topic. But as you mentioned, I think it's our job to make the information sharing happen. So in that way, kind of looking into the future we talked about judo's future um how about bjj you think do you have a sense of how if at all this kind of

movement towards standardization would happen in in for bjj uh i think they're on the right track with the ibjjf i know people don't like it right um it's they need a clear-cut vision of like where they want to track with the IBJJF I know people don't like it they need a clear cut vision of where they want to go with the sport I think there's too many players that hey, Jiu Jitsu is for fighting no, Jiu Jitsu is a martial art and then sports Jiu Jitsu is this

and then you have the people who are invested in that and then there's just too many I don't know, I think it's very difficult to have a right? unified vision. And yes, they want to be in the Olympics, but if they want to be in the Olympics, they have to get rid of that fighting mentality, right?

It's like, oh, it's a martial arts. No, you have to accept the fact that it's going in this direction and enough people need to be on board with one particular vision to be sort of like the collective uh majority right and then when that happens i think they could go in that direction you know i'm not an expert in like uh jujitsu trends right but i think you know yeah i think uh that's what i think about it yeah that that'll be an interesting i i i lurk in the bjj subreddit a lot and I see that debate a lot

you know martial arts versus sports you know that would be an important question for them to ask I mean Judah clearly answered that question they said okay this is a sport right I disagree with you on that one oh really I disagree with you yeah

I don't think it's a mutually exclusive like alright it's a mutually exclusive. Like, all right, it's either a sport or a martial art. It has to be a little bit of both. I see. It's really down to the instructor to say, hey, it's a spectrum. It's a spectrum. You know what I mean?

Like many things. Right, Peter? Yeah, it is. It's a spectrum. I mean, spectrum has such a bad rap in that word. It describes the situation, but i see what you mean yeah and i guess maybe i have the personal bias because i i i treat my i'm on the more on the sports side of the spectrum i i see judo as more of a sport but i get i think anyone when you're competing yeah you sort of have to be on the sports side because unified rule set, you could do this, you can't do this, you're training.

But if somebody is coming into the dojo and they're like, I just want to learn how to defend myself through judo, whether it be I want to get in better shape because I don't feel like I'm in good shape. I want to get stronger. I want functional strength of pulling someone's head down and slamming them. All those different things. Now, they're not there for sport. and slamming them right all those different things now they're not there for sport right on to force them into this like path of like you want to compete and you have to go like this and you have to go like down that road and i think that's wrong right so it's i'm i owe it to them to say okay these are the ideas of judo these are the things of judo this is how you train these are

the moves if you we you can do this you can't do that here's the martial perspective or the martial implications of these techniques in these positions right i mean so the judo experience is different for a lot of people but there needs to be a path right and i love this sport side because it helps that evolve you know it's the it's the example of like when you go for uchimata versus hanegoshi people are on the internet like hey check out my uchimata they do the uchimata it's the example of like when you go for uchimata versus hanegoshi people are on the internet like hey check out my uchimata they do the uchimata it's like no that's a hanegoshi because this is that you know and it's like it doesn't matter you're missing the entire point then you know if we're sitting around arguing about sport or martial art or whatever it is it's not going to

do the sport any good yeah i think you know what i mean do some for sport do some for martial art learn both and grapple and then the competition in the sport is there to make each other better really right i mean that's what it's about competing is to make each other better through and you can't compete fully without the sport rule set you know what i mean it's like oh martial arts you could poke your eyes and bite them and you would get like this or stomped in the crunch if you're in this position it's like okay go do that in a competition see how many people keep competing right see how good that is for the sport right it's not right so the competition side the sports side and the martial side they need each other right so you can't really discredit like

ah he's not a competitor he doesn't compete like i think that's the biggest sin i talk about the the sins in judo that's a horrible disservice to the community when you know you're elevating just the competition side versus oh just the sport side is nonsense you know it's just doesn't it's not realistic yeah that does more harm for the sport in the community not for the sport for the martial art or the entire community you know so we have to kind of move away from that. Bring up an important point. I see that a lot in judo community too, kind of being too pedantic about throws.

Like you said, Uchimara and Hanegoshi are classic examples. Who cares? But we have to remember that as judo people, yeah, we love that we have standardized names, but we have to remember that they are tools uh to for uh the the ultimate goal i guess you know it will probably depend on the person but it's it's really to be a better grappler and a better person healthier all that yeah and then you know this name the nomenclature is just a tool. And then we don't have to fight over it.

And I think it's a good point. I think when more people come on board with that, I think it's helpful. For instance, I get Instagram DMs all the time. Like, hey, I'm trying to do Taiyo. How do I set it up? Or what's the best setup for Taiyo? It's like, okay, you know, do you know how to grip fight? Do you know how to hand fight?

Do you know how to be in a good position? Are you talking about right side versus left or right versus right you know without having those questions answered you know it's like when i answer back it's like are you know are you right or lefty like which yeah and if they have no clue what i'm talking about it's like i can't help you right can you just tell me sasai or ochi or kochi which one's the best it's like none of them are the best it really matters matters. You know, the context matters. I can't give you, are you fighting someone bigger? Are you fighting someone smaller?

Right side versus left, right? Like all these different things matter. You know what I mean? Can you do a tie-o from losing position? Can you do a tie-o from winning position? Right side versus right, right side versus left. Like I think when people come on board with that, then at least they have the tie-o. But now if they said

turning, cross-legged, leg shooting across the outside person's ankle throw, I'd be like, what are you talking about? I'm not even going to respond to that. You know what I mean? Yes, we should keep some of this stuff. It already, judo and BJJ, it's already a special club.

And I talked about it before but you know when you're a non grappler you're sort of on the outside looking in right I mean it takes a different type of a person a special breed to do these kinds of activities right that's right I think it only furthers that sort of special bond and camaraderie if you guys have your own language that's across the board right right and yeah and then these these names ground yeah like ground that context like you like you said if he if he didn't have

these names to it would be impossible to discuss the the intricate context and details yes because we need to at least have a base foundation to build upon yeah yeah so now we've talked about the importance and the usefulness and you know the whole lot about the nomenclature um do you and let's kind of go back to the people who have reservations about using these terms and maybe we can uh yeah give them some tips on how to best utilize them, how to memorize them well. So let's start with how to kind of memorize them, I guess, in a way. I know there are some parts in the Japanese names and whatnot. Can we go over that quickly? You know what man i

gotta i gotta say it's gonna be like uh you're familiar with the common core yes yes in the education system it's like yes you know you want to do everything conceptually higher order thinking you want to foster critical thinking all these different things i get it you know i mean i get it theoretically but you know all these people the bureaucrats in an office room you know not having taught themselves grinding it out in the classroom day after day right uh making these things based on theory right a little bit different you know what i mean sometimes a kid just has to learn their multiplication tables right you have to look at it like that multiplication tables that's a good way to sort of og coachy society oh they actually there's a million resources out there already

that's sort of the basic thing it's like i don't really want to learn it's like okay you know it's like in spanish right i learned spanish that was my minor in college mostly because i had a spanish-speaking girlfriend at the time but like uh if i wanted to learn the spanish i had to learn how to conjugate the verbs i had to learn the verbs right and, I had to learn how to conjugate the verbs. I had to learn the verbs, right? And then I had to learn how to conjugate them. There's no going around about it and saying like, okay, you know, the best way, you know, theoretically, whatever. You just have to learn it. Right.

You just have to have the basis. You just, you know. And I think that happens. Maybe you just ask me the best way, but. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if I answered your question. I just kind of started.

No, I think it's a good approach. I think because for me, for example, I learned judo in Korea first. I learned the Korean names first. And then later when I came, you know, started doing judo in the States, I had to learn the Japanese names. And then you're right, like in Korean,

because I know the language, it's you're right like in Korean because I know the language it's it's easier to it like you said reason through it like kind of yeah instead of memorizing but yeah let me ask you a question what do they call Korean say Nagi in Korea there's like us say Nagi yeah what do they call it like it's like it's where get actually know the answer to that they call it like folding say Nagi yeah like you like wrap it wrapping wrapping say when I Gail or like one one sleeve so not one sleeve one lapel how do you globally we call it Korean say no you know right some people resist that and say reverse it yeah yeah

I mean I guess I think that's more of a descriptive name but I guess Koreans popularized it it's kind of like yeah it's cool yeah homage to the people who do it yeah there's a Mongolian saying I mean anyway you were saying about oh no no it's just that I think you like what you said is correct is you just have to sit down and start memorizing but once you do you start noticing the pattern it's kind of like you you you learn all the kanjis right like the Chinese characters when you learn Japanese in school yeah yeah yeah well first of all you you there's a pattern to it I mean there's like thousands and

thousands of characters but they're not just all random. Once you start to know the basics, you can kind of piece things together. And same thing with judo names. Yeah, there are a lot of names, but once you start memorizing them and then kind of figuring out, you'll see the pattern eventually. I think a lot of people resist that because they think it's just – I'll give you a tip, though, about how sitting down and memorizing 67 or whatever number of throws – I probably should know that off the top of my head. Sitting down and memorizing each and every one technique might not be very useful of your time. Right.

And I never try to force that kind of thing. And you asked about what's the best way to teach it uh and the way i do it is like hey this is a sort of gary you know and i just sort of teach the movements teach the context this is how you do it this is how you enter it this is how you might resist it and then as i'm teaching this lesson of throwing somebody with a sort of gary right there's a lot you know embedded in that lesson right like yes you learn this technique are you going to be able to hit it in a live you know setting no it's going to take you a long time to learn it why because you need to learn the setups and these are the things that might cause

resistance in learning it and as i'm teaching this whole lesson i'm saying osorogari osorogari osorogari osorogari and then it's like okay complementary throws so osorogari let's look at sasai going in the opposite direction the complementary because i'm going this way you resist this way i fake this way i go that way right right now it's like asoda society i'm throwing that language out there not stop with the guy you know what i mean so the second lesson third lesson it's like hey show me society right they may not be able to produce that word but they can recognize show the movement yeah right they can recognize it and just show it and be like oh this is what we did in society i'm like no you didn't put the foot there you put the foot wrong no i won't do that i'm just

kidding but like right so now all of a sudden they know osoto society they can produce it when asked and eventually right when they're hey can you show me another move? Okay, Ouchigari, inside trip. Right? Ouchigari, inside trip. Osoro's outside trip. Inside trip is Ouchigari. You got Osoro and Ouchi. Now you got Osoro, Ouchi, Sasai in the arsenal.

Right. You know what I mean? And then one day, after, you know, a month of training and drilling it, and then people saying it, and here it are, next we're drilling Ouchi, Osoro to susai combination, blah, blah, blah. They're going to come in and ask me like, hey, when I'm hitting that susai, what should my hands be doing? It's like, oh, you produced it. Right, right.

You know what I mean? So I think that's the best approach as an instructor. And that's always sort of the way that I like to teach it. When I'm teaching the osoro curriculum or the osoro lesson, it's like, hey, these are the concepts. These are the ideas. These are the things you may encounter, blah, blah, or soto soto soto soto soto right right and then the second tier would be to right the way i just explained it so i think that's the best way and i've been doing it that way for many many many years and i'm sure you learned that way too from

me because i thought all this stuff as opposed to me explicitly teaching you all the different gripping ideas you know what i mean i'll throw in some of the jargon that i have for instance like uh i can't think of any right now but as you're doing you're a little bit of a different case because you came to me right with all this experience and so it's like i'll hey do this do that in this scenario and then i'll throw down throw those like you can talk about the rolling the shoulder that's like one thing i really learned from you like we oh yeah yeah you to establish a dominant position yeah that's right so it's like right side versus right side you should just link up and then just start trying to muscle through but generally you're

smaller than a lot of the guys at the dojo right because you're you know measly 73 so it's like roll the shoulders gain advantage and then you're like in the beginning like huh right then once i've said it enough it's like it just becomes natural yeah that's right i think about that a lot it's you know what they call like grounding you you know yeah you so i think you bring up a good point it's not it's not only how the instructor teaches it but you also need an active learner like a person when the instructor tries to ground the concept or word to a concept the learner has to actively ground it to the concept uh ground the movement to the uh to the name and then yeah wants to actively learn it i think that it's not gonna be like a like a process osmosis or something

that's just gonna diffuse to you you have to observe it absorb it actively that's true yeah that's very true yeah yeah and then once you have that you have these different patterns that sort of work together no matter what right and then you don't have to be explicit in saying some of these things anymore because it's automated in your judo system right right side versus left you know putting that right hand on the lapel first fighting for inside or outside configuration right all this stuff i don't even need to say to my top level guys because already embedded in their strategy right They need to put the hand down first. And then if they're failing at that and they're not putting their hands down first

and they're losing position, they both want inside position, right side versus left. And then you're getting stuck on the outside. We know why. So I might say something like, yo, jab the fake. And then when the hand goes down the parry,

then you punch the hand into something like this. I don't know if I... Maybe I'm just digressing and ranting. No, yo, jab the fake, you know, and then when the hand goes down the parry, then you punch the hand into something like this. Right. You know? I don't know if I, maybe I'm just digressing and ranting at this point. No, no, no.

No, that was good. But once you have that pattern, right, now you have the second portion of it is like, all right,

you're stuck on the outside or whether you fall for the inside position, now creating a post and shoulder turn. Right. We talk about this all the time

in a kenka yotsu or right side versus left setting. Right? So now we're getting, you know you know two sort of patterns two sort of positions before we even go for any attack right because judo is so contextual and it gets left out all the time you know you need to know this stuff you just need to know it in order to elevate your game there's all you can only get so far of like put put your hands on the gi, go for ochi, go for osoro, go for taiyo. You can only get so far.

If you have a coach that talks like that, you're like, all right, maybe this guy doesn't really know how or to resist or the main lines of attack or how the entire system or the gamification plays out in a one-to-one setting. Yeah. So nomenclature,

all the japanese names there are yeah there to if you know efficiently communicate with others about the context surrounding all the throws yes and yes and then we have to remember that it's not just about the sake of learning the throws and then getting the correct names it's about the context. And the names are just efficient ways to, it's an efficient way to communicate that with people instead of having to describe in detail what each throw is. And then it just takes time to get to that. You need to be able to ground it,

ground these names to the actual throws. And that means you need to be active learners and the instructors also will have to be active and then trying to ground these concepts to the names and just takes time and you just have to stick with it like you said and um you know it's stick with it if you have a good coach yeah Yeah. Right? And I think that's the most important part of this whole thing, right? You could go to a judo school

and everyone only learns right side versus right side. Right. You know, they don't talk about hand position, they don't talk about gripping, it's like, this is Osoto,

this is Taiyo. Okay, go. Right. And you know, I learned like that too, in a sense. You know, when I was younger,

until this entire world of judo opened up to me from just traveling around the world competing right right and i think it's very very important to be able to elevate yourself into these new dimensions new levels by being able to speak the language yeah so you know simply you need to learn the basic movement the names of these throws like now you're going to go backwards if you need to rename osorigari, rename Taito Shio, the Japanese terminology. You have to go backwards on it now. You know what I mean?

It's already there. There's already a next tier and a tier above that, all the language that describes all these different ideas and maneuvers. Go learn it. Right. But have a good coach. and maneuvers. Go learn it. Right. But have a good coach. If you talk about hey coach in a right side versus

left side position, I have inside configuration. They create a frame and a barrier by bringing the elbow over the top. How do I encounter this? And then if the coach doesn't say are your shoulders turned already or right? That should be the answer.

Does he have your shoulders turned? You know, it's like, yes or no. And then they give good feedback. Okay. You know, here, here are your options here, kid. Right. As opposed to like, ah, get rid of it. Then, you know, that coach doesn't really know what he's talking about. Right. I'm not trying to discredit anybody, but I've heard it countless times, you know, and sometimes, you know, the people speak the language, right? When I seek out coaches and mentors, I ask these questions. If they don people speak the language right when i seek out coaches and mentors i ask these questions if they don't speak the language i know they don't really know it right right they have to be able to communicate to me right they have to be able to first of all

read me and understand where i am in terms of understanding and then teach me just above that right and that's sort of the the magic the of the magic coaching sort of formula, I think. Create that flow of the virtual cycle where you give yourself a little bit of, you give your student a little bit of challenge. And you need immediate feedback. Because I can't just talk. Yeah. Yeah. Because if I threw in four or five terminology that the green belt has no clue what I'm talking about, that information is not going to be useful.

Yeah. But if I know what he knows by his communication skills of, right, and if he came in, like I told you, that one guy that came in, he's never done judo before, but he spoke the language because he watched all my videos. Yeah. You know what I mean? He has specific questions that like a brown or a black belt would ask. And I was blown away. I was like, you've never grappled before? He like no i just watched all your videos i'm like that's insane his theoretical knowledge of like is just blew me away right you know so that's he has the

theoretical knowledge now he's got to make his body do it and that's sort of a much shorter path than someone that's already super athletic that's coming in just gunslinging and that guy is gonna get better faster but in Terms of like shorter path to greatness. Yeah, I think that kid has a much bigger advantage. Yeah, that's a good point Right. Well, I think there was a Fascinating conversation. I think very interesting. Yeah. Yeah, hope everyone up, you know I hope from this, I think everyone could start thinking about what these names actually mean to them and how to approach them. So any parting words for the listeners? Yeah, I just found my biggest takeaway from this entire episode was that you thought out of all the things Kano did politically, the best thing he's ever done was name osorogari well you know i think i i stand by my position this is i'm not talking about politics just for the marshals yes i think that's the biggest contribution yeah

we talk about the belts and stuff eventually yeah uh but yeah to the people who are listening thank you for listening uh it gives me great validation to know that people care what i think about some of the stuff that i've acquired my entire life please subscribe to my youtube channel like it share it do all the good stuff and hopefully if the feedback is good and if really takes off and you know i would love to keep making this with peter give us direct feedback. I love direct feedback. You're renting too much. You don't make any sense.

You say, oh, too much. I love all those different feedbacks because it helps me better. Yeah. Same for me too. Helps me get better. Yeah. Same for me too. Well, thanks for listening, guys, and stay tuned for the next episode.

See you guys soon.