The Shintaro Higashi Show - Judo for Old Guys

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

There is a popular belief that Judo is a young man's game, and it may be better for "old guys" to find an alternative that is less taxing on the body such as BJJ. Is this really true? If so, what can we do to make Judo safer and more fun for "old guys"? Following the popularity of his Judo for Old Guys YouTube video, Shintaro and Peter sit down to talk about this issue more in depth. Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today is a very interesting one. It's going to be Judo for Old Guys. But first and foremost, we'd like to thank one of our sponsors, Levon, for sponsoring us. Again, yeah. What a guy.

Yeah. Thanks for your support and sponsorship. And yeah, this is why we're able to do this, you know, thanks to your support. So thank you again. And back to Judo for Old Guys. We got a video out, right? Like it's doing really well. It's generating a lot of, you know, discussion in the comment section.

Yeah. You know, so you look at the metrics, right? And generally in the first two days or so, I get between like, you know, 1,000 to 5,000 views on a video. This is already at 9,000 views within two days. So that means it's doing pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. And then watch time, 256 hours, added 30 new subscribers on the impressions click-through

rate. That's the most important, one of the big metrics, right? When someone looks at that thumbnail and decides to click on it, 8.1% of people, when they see this thumbnail, they click on it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey. Which is a very, when they see this thumbnail, they click on it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Hey.

Which is a very, very good CTR. Look at you. You're, uh, you sounded like a business school guy right now. Oh, yeah. What is the thing? Like indicator of what is it? Uh, key metric KPI? KPI.

Performance indicators. So this is doing really well. Like it's generating just by, you know, people just looking at this thumbnail, they're like clicking through right away. Yes. And it's got the most engagement. It's got 127 comments already. Oh, wow. Yeah. Which means it's like hitting a nerve or resonating or, you know, a lot of these guys are coming out of the world and saying, Hey, I'm 38. Hey, I'm 40. Hey, I'm 43. I'm just

scrolling through it. Right. Hey, I'm 60 years old. I've been doing judoka for a decade. Hey, I'm 40. Hey, I'm 43. I'm just scrolling through it, right? Hey, I'm 60 years old. I've been doing judo for a decade. Hey, I'm an 80-year-old judoka. Wow. This is absolutely incredible. And, you know, people say, right, judo is a young man's game. It kind of is, but there's a place. There's always a tough-as-nails older guy in the dojo, right, that's doing his thing day in and day out,

keeping himself safe. Maybe we'll start from there. Why do people say judo is a young man's, young person's game? Because, a good example, right? If you're doing Brazilian jiu-jitsu and the demographic of people doing it is a lot older. Right, yeah. Just as a general, if you walked into any gen pop dojo and say, okay, what is the average age or median age or whatever it is, right?

They have older people doing it because they're able to do certain games, like half guard, right? Half guard top, half guard bottom. It doesn't require scrambling around and being super athletic. Like if you're doing like diving back takes and like varambolos and inversion and stuff like that, there's like sort of a necessary requirement of like flexibility, there's like sort of a necessary requirement of like flexibility, mobility, athleticism.

But you don't need that stuff to implement some of these games, strategical styles of jujitsu. Judo, you have to be explosive. You have to be strong. Movements are fast. Everything is dynamic always, almost all the time. And you can't do things slowly. In. And you can't do same things slowly. And just so you can do things slowly, you could incrementally go half guard

and then push the knee down and close the space and then melt into positions and like incrementally climb and then gain position. Right. And Judo it's much more fast paced. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. Right. Cause the, there it is.

Yeah. You have to explode. The window opportunity is very small and it's come to goes. Right. Yeah. Yeah, you have to explode. The window of opportunity is very small and it comes and goes, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I make this analogy all the time. In jiu-jitsu, it's like bodybuilding. You can go here, you work this, you work that.

Very intricate, right? You go here, you can do this, you can work the muscle from this angle, that angle. Yeah. You know, anyone can go in and be a bodybuilder. Right, right. But Olympic lifting, not everyone can do that. Especially when you're older, yeah. Yes, and then it's bi- Right, right. But Olympic lifting, not everyone can do that. Especially when you're older, yeah.

Yes, and then it's a lot more explosive dynamic. It's one or two things explosively, dynamically, right? That's a good analogy, yeah. Yeah, the gains are very, very, like, in between,

and these details are very difficult to see. You know what I mean? So, given this, like, what do you mean by judo for old guys? How can you work around it? It's like, it seems like that type of dynamic movements and all is like inherent to the game of judo.

How do you get around that? So a lot of it is like blocking and restricting your ball's movement. Gaining position and then hanging on their head right or putting your weight on them or stiff arm and then which i haven't covered in that video that i did yeah i did that video half as a joke right yeah but it's like it's it's like very relevant to a lot of people seems like yes yeah guys just like youtube search field judo for old guys. And then this will pop up and you watch it. And I give you like sort of three different counters from dominant position.

And I give a very easy way to get the dominant position that doesn't require fast gripping, fast movement. Right, right. It's just literally lock up, kick him in the shin for coaching. It works. It works. I finish all the time. We all do it. I'm set. We all do it.

Older guys tend to do it more. Yeah. It's very effective because then yeah, the pace becomes like I can adjust the pace

of the game to my pace. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Because you can always connect your shin to your opponent's shin.

Yeah. Right. You pull their head down, climb up with a collar, stiff arm then when you need to pull their head down and then a lot of these young guys just enter direct attacks and the direct attacks come in. You could block it. You can counter.

Yeah. That's what it's really like for Judo for older guys. I see. So yeah, it's, you can by, um, by using clever positioning and grip fighting strategies, you can really slow down the pace so that it's like in your world. Like it's something younger people may not be as familiar or you're just basically restricting their game. That's the main idea. Yeah. So it is a little bit more blocking style.

Like, I make a joke about it in the video like you know old asian blocking beats youth wrestling or something like this you know and that's what you hear in wrestling at dodge all the time like you're in the wrestling room yeah you see these kids like shooting double high seed you know single to double snap down fast off drivers you see these older guys that don't take any shots yeah they just block block block front headlock block block block maybe a snatch single right Sometimes they can't even get down. Yeah, they can't shoot on their knees. Yeah.

I knew that. Remember, I popped my hip flexor trying to shoot. Yes, right. So I don't even shoot on when I go to wrestling practice. Yeah, you don't need to shoot anymore. No. Look at your hairline, right? I already showing it's all wisdom here that's uh yes yeah so how to like effectively block right and then gripping fast gripping you know requires a

lot of coordination yeah and you know there's sort of two types of guys that are old guys doing judo right guys who have done it since they were kids and they already have their thing the guys who started late who are always complaining about like oh i should have started younger no you started when you started you can't do anything about it don't even write about it yeah if you would start when you're younger you might have an asshole coach you might have taught an acl you're doing now it's the best thing right you're in it when you're in it and there's nothing you can do about it except it you know but you got two different types of guys that guy that just started maybe five years ago when he was like 35 40 having like a little midlife crisis or something right like oh i need to get back in shape i need to feel young again i

need to be in the room to like get my heart rate up and feel like that survival mode be hungry be taken down be like in it with you know kids right young men and fucking you know, kids, right? Young men, fucking, you know, tough women, just like grappling. Yeah. Those guys developing a fast-paced gripping strategy is going to be very difficult, right? Because coordination, all these things are part. Maybe you don't have it. Maybe you sat in an office for the last 20 years. So like letting the guy grip up with you

and gaining dominant position, not through quick movements of like feints and attacks and cutting angles and misdirections and stuff like this. But like basic stuff. Yeah. Kicking the coachee, pulling the head down and like putting, leaning the weight on him. Go for one big sigh and then trying to climb up the shoulder.

Things like this. Yeah. Right. I see. So then, so let's, actually, that's a good point. Like the way you divided up two people. So let, yeah, let's go deeper onto people who started late. So you're saying it's, you don't, you can't really rely on fast twitching, like grip fighting strategy.

So what, so can you go more into more in depth about it? Like what, I guess you do the shoulder roll that you really like and things like that or? Yes, for sure. But this is the thing, right? If you've been doing this since you were a kid,

there's certain movements that are sort of ingrained in you. Yeah. There's certain sensitivities that you developed through the course of time that you may be able to fire off quick things still.

Right. Right. Because it doesn't require, it's not like firing off a diving uchiman. Like it's like you. Your leg goes to 6 p.m. You know 6 p.m.? Yeah. Right. Right. Because it doesn't require, it's not like firing off a diving Uchiman. Like it's like your leg goes to 6 p.m. Yeah.

6 p.m. Yeah. You get that long hand up to 12 and then the 6th head. Yeah. We can't do that anymore. Yeah.

Yeah. But the quick movements with the hands and the upper body, you have that. You keep that. Your neural pathway doesn't go away kind

of thing. It doesn't go away. Yeah. So like you can think something real fast in a game position, but I'm talking about the guys who may have started when they're 35. Yeah. They've never done any of these movements, so it's a little bit different.

You know what I mean? So even the throws, you think people can be more methodical? Like, is that what you mean? Like slower pace, more methodical throttle i can't even really all right so in terms of like dna position right versus right collar sleeve costly we both have it right yeah uh guy who's been doing it for a very long time yeah they fake the real quick yeah right and then feel how they react and then gain quick position whether it's a call hand or taking the sleeve off yeah yeah and then they just feel that they're going to bring the hand back.

So then they fake again and go coachy. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's a very quick, you know, then that. Yeah. Right. Somebody still can do that when they're 40, 50 years old, if they've been doing judo for very long.

Right. Right. Right. And then, you know, you go against the young guy, they might not react because he's like, oh, this guy doesn't have a drop Sanagi. Why am I going to react? Yeah. Yeah.

Who knows? Right. But a lot of people are like, oh my God, he's an older guy with a black belt or a rumble. I'm going to, I'm like aware. So you can get away with this. But if you're starting when you're 40 and you don't have these little sensitivities

and these quick movements in your hands and like the natural things that, you know, you've developed over the years and being able to read the person, then you kind of have to like go for like locked up, pulling, pulling, pulling, just be like isometrically strong. Well, last thing in the shin would have to like go for like locked up pulling pulling pulling just be like isometrically strong well last thing in the shin would have to be a side

pulling the head down and then climbing up the collar also like really dominant position like a real high grip and yeah or stiff arm or stiff arm yeah and stiff arm it's a whole thing right you can look up

how to deal with the stiff arm in judo. I have a bunch of stuff about that. You know, and you don't really get this in competition, you know, because you get penalized right away.

Anything that you're not going towards the throw, you're not going towards taking the person down, if you're very defensive and backing up in stiff arming, you get penalized for this. It's very interesting

that you're, like, saying stiff arming can be actually helpful because, you know, the, uh, almost a trope, like popular trope is that in judo is that, oh, you can't, you shouldn't stiff arm. Like that's the annoying guy. It is the annoying guy, but it's a tool, right? You can't stiff arm the whole time, obviously. Right. But you know, whenever you feel in danger, yes, stiff arm and then push them out away from you. They take yourself out of danger for a little bit. It buys you a little bit of time.

Right. You know what I mean? And then the person scrambles to get close, get close, get close, then you could exploit that. I see. But then I guess one downside of stiff arm arming that I always tell people is that if you it kind of restricts, yeah, it's a great defensive move, but

it restricts your offense, right? How do you get around that? You're saying you can actually set up your counters then? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see. So if I'm stiff farming someone, I'm an older guy, right?

And I'm not as explosive. Yes. There's a lot of distance. Yeah. If I was a young guy, yes, I'm stiff farming, but the moment I release it and I can dive straight through, right? Because there's a lot of, there's arms length away-arming, but the moment I release it and I can dive straight through. Right. Because there's a lot of, there's an arm's length away if you're stiff-arming somebody.

So you're kind of too far. Yeah. And if your hips are even back more, then there's no way you could, you're offensive at all. Yeah, yeah. Because your legs are far away, your hips are far away, your arm's length away. Look how far you are like this, right? Right. So now all of a sudden you're going with somebody and then they're trying to come in they're trying to come in and you're keeping them out

keeping them out and then they try to dive in and muscle themselves and then you let them in and then you go underneath for the tomonage or a shirisumegashi or even a harai makikomi

oh wow makikomi yeah because that's a good old guy stuff because it's like you're keeping away keeping away

keeping away they're trying to come close they're trying to close the moment they do you like clear the top arm, you rotate, grab that arm, and then you throw your whole body down into the floor. Like that's something that could be very effective and useful for an older guy. Is it a good, great judo?

No, kind of not really. But, you know, if you're not competing and you're just in the room to like work out and, you know, it's a strategy. Right, right. And is it helpful for the guy who's competing you know on the national circuit to like develop a strategy against that not really but you know you're still a body in the room yeah let's have a little workout with and you're doing judo and you know that we need more people doing it yeah i want to keep the guys who are in the game for a

long time i want to keep those guys, you know? So they sort of naturally all do a similar type of judo. It's very, very like recognizable, you know? I see. And when you're in those positions, right, you can, because you're far away, because you know, opponent's not close, you can defend stuff better, counter stuff better, because now

if they go for an Osoto from that arm's length distance, they're reaching. Yeah. Yeah. Right? You want to get chest-to- chest on a lot of this stuff. You want to go close, chest to chest, throw your hips across, all this stuff. Put your weight on the person. Hard to put your weight on them if their arms are extended.

It's like framing in Jiu-Jitsu when someone's passing. Yeah. A lot of Jiu-Jitsu references now, right? Because there's a lot of Jiu-Jitsu. Well, also, I think, like you mentioned in the beginning, Jiu-Jitsu has a lot right? Because there's a lot of Jiu-Jitsu. Well, also, I think, like you mentioned in the beginning, Jiu-Jitsu has a lot of this stuff kind of built in, like this more methodical way of doing things. Yeah.

For sure. It's definitely like, like I said, it's bodybuilding. It's like bodybuilding, right? Right. What about delts? All right, you can do a rep press. You go like this, but impingement this, and there's a hierarchy of techniques,

and you go like that, and then there's body, these different things you can look at you know right of course power lifting too it's very deep and intricate but it's hard to see you really really need an expert right yeah anyone can sort of be i'm not saying anything but anyone can act like what they know know what they're doing the majority of the gym pop go to the gym they do bodybuilding workouts yeah yeah chest, whatever it is. Back tricep. Accessible. Yeah.

It's much more accessible. Anybody could do it. You know, you got 40, 50 year olds in the gym. Gym pop. You go to the gym right now. Any gym right near your house. Right. 24 hour fitness.

New York sports club. Whatever. You see a bunch of older dudes that are yoked up doing bodybuilding style workouts. Right. Right. How many of them you see them cleaning and jerking no

but hey what about what about like snatches not that many I can't even do snatches yeah and there's a lot of requirements

for a fight and the physicality of it yeah right can only be really like seen by a professional

you know right and it's like that learning curve right like judo has that huge learning curve, just like all the other things. If you don't have it, like, yeah, you can't just, like, gradually clear

that initial hurdle, I guess. Yeah. Like I said, a lot of counters for older guys. So blocking and countering, blocking and countering, fighting for position, fighting for position, not through, like, very athletic, coordinated, fast, fighting for position. Not through very athletic, coordinated, fast-gripping sequences, but slowly, incrementally,

gating, little by little. A lot of these younger guys who started young and who have been in the judo have a sensitivity, but no one's ever really teaching the people who are jumping in at an older age. And we need to keep those guys. Those are the most important guys. Those are the most important guys.

Because those are the guys who most want to be away from their wives and on the mat at all times. They're the guys who have the disposable income. Yeah. They have their little, right. They have their little cash reserves hidden away from their wives. Like those guys want to spend that, you know, on judo private, on judo gis, you know what I mean?

Those are the guys who are going to go to these tournaments. Right, right, right. The Masters Tournament. That's what we need. We need more guys doing it, you know? And if we teach specifically judo for older guys, I think that's a great thing, you know? And for really, really older guys, we just teach them break falls.

Yeah, which is, you know, if you break a bone when you're old, that can be very dangerous, you know? Yeah, man, there's a lot of older guys, like really old. I'm not joking around like 25 to 35, but like even 45. I'm talking like guys who are in their 60s and 70s are out of shape. Those guys fall down, they can't get back up. Yeah. It's a real freaking thing. Yeah.

It's a real thing. You know what I mean? So like, you know, coming down on the ground and getting back up, that's a huge, huge part of life. That's, you know, important for longevity. You know what they say, man, for longevity, like squat for you to sit down, get back up, be able to lie down and stand back up. And then grip strength. Those are very, very, very important indicators for longevity. Oh, hey, that's judo right there.

I mean, the grip strength one is an actual scientific study. Why grip strength? I don't know, but there was an actual study, right? All the two I just kind of made up. They should tell you guys to show the ultimate source of scientific truth. The total journal of science. Where all data is fabricated on an

anecdotal basis. Okay, so that's the on that's for people who started late. Actually, I'm curious about this one. A couple of questions. So you said more about, you're focusing more on like gaining position little by little and then, you know, counters and like more defensive stuff.

How about like, how about foot sweeps? I feel like instead of, like, big turn throws, maybe foot sweep might be good for older folk. Do you think that's, yeah? But then, like, you need to build up that timing, though. Isn't that kind of hard to learn? A little bit, but, you know, everyone drills and trains too hard or too fast. If you're learning something new, you have to go slow and you go very very slow through the mode so you could talk yourself

through each thing so you could try to remember as many details as possible when i show a sequence and you know i'm not fault too because i show the technique right like one of them because like uh you know i forget sometimes it's like second nature too yeah and you want to show them what it actually looks like when it's a little bit live. Right. But when you're actually drilling the stuff, you have to really go slow. And, you know, you really sold that. It's like, you know, when they say like, I can never run 10 miles.

Yeah. People say this. Of course you can. Yeah. Where is the line between running and walking and jogging? Yeah. No, seriously. You can do 10 miles right now.

You can walk outside and then it may take you A very long time And you can do it Right And then can you Go a little bit faster Like can you go 3 miles an hour Can you go 4 miles an hour

Okay Can you go 5 miles an hour And do that You know And you can kind of Build it up slowly Slowly slowly And before you do it

You could blast through 10 miles If I try to run 10 miles At a 10 minute mile pace I could do that right now I could run 10 miles At a 10 minute mile pace But Right Yeah you can build it up When it's like walking Yeah Where's the line pace i could do that right now i could run 10 miles a 10 minute walk pace but right yeah you

can build it up it's like walking yeah yeah where's the line when is it defined as walking jogging and running you know right i don't know maybe there's a science behind it i'm just talking out my ass but right in judo too like with the timing and stuff you could do it very slowly taking these slow dummy steps if we're doing one three, if that's the cadence of how we walk, one, two, one, two, one, two, you could be like, one, two, there's that foot sweep. Weight's coming off that front leg. Take it off from underneath them.

Wrist goes like this. Hand goes like that. As a sensei, I think as a dojo, you really need to encourage that type of practice, I guess. Because a lot of times, if a gym focuses too much on competition, they may just run a high school, college wrestling practice

and then just grinding through. But it's not just about people who started late learning different ways of doing judo. It's also the gym has to be supportive. The dojo has to be supportive of those people, right? Yeah. How about... What was I going to say?

Oh, how about... So, okay. So now we talked about people who started late. people who started late how about how about people like all the time who who like basically built judo as a young person's game yeah but now it's like gotten to the point where like you know my body can't do all the young judo young person judo that i used to do yeah so you know a lot of people have like these issues right like yeah Like you're a fast saying guy. Yeah. If you look at Nomura.

Yeah. Okay. He had an unbelievably fast explosive athletic judo. Right. And now after like multiple, multiple ACL surgeries, he can't do what he used to be able to do. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you do?

Like you hold onto that and do some of the stuff that you're able to do. Why not work a new game? Yeah. You know what I mean? onto that and do some of the stuff that you're able to do why not work a new game yeah you know what i mean my judo is way different than when i was 15 20 25 30 even from five years ago it's very very different yeah right now i've been spamming tomonagi non-stop tomonagi i'm like a tomonagi guy dude really tomonagi is good like i got like four or five different tomonagis like i go for it all the time oh man yeah and you know i can play that game. It requires a lot of different stuff.

Like drop Senagi, Morote Senagi, I can't really do it right now. You know? Yeah. Elbow stuff, shoulder stuff, knee pain. Right? Yeah. And I used to have a Morote Senagi game. So it definitely evolves.

Right? But I don't want to say like the game evolves. It's like you have that. I still have that. I can still do it. I don't want to do it. Yeah. I can still go over the head, hanging on the person,

pulling their head down, uchibara, uchibara, taiyo, hurray. Heavy osoto, heavy ochi, heavy counters, I can do this. I can go two-on-one. I can go sumi gaeshi game. I can go stemi game. I can do the waza transition game. I have a much more wider variety of stuff. Will any one of those sequences win me an Olympic championship?

No. Because when you're competing for the best, to be the best, you have to have a very, very strategical thing, like a tight game, like your A game. You have to be better at that than anybody, right? And all the different ways to be able to, like, deal with that, you have to be an expert in that, all the main line of defenses, all the stuff, have a nice support.

You have to have a couple of, you know, bait and switch or, like, these little tricks and all this stuff. You know what I mean? Bail out throws. But when you get older, I think you should explore new techniques, new ways, new strategies. And that's what keeps it fun. Yeah. You know?

And if, like, let's just say, for instance, Gianni has a weak spot. Like, he has a blind spot. Right? I could totally play that game against him as a righty i'm saying yeah if you told me to play as a lefty i would be terrible you know maybe that's something i explore too that doesn't really fit with this aging judo sort of situation because you know maybe i'll play like a older slower lefty judo game uh that doesn't require me to have those fast turn throws.

Right, right. I could probably do that, right? That could be fun. Yeah. Or like no turn judo that you talked about. Yeah. Maybe I'll just be like fully lefty, all no turn judo, just countering and blocking. You know what?

That's my next thing I'm going to do. I'm going to fight as a lefty now, blocking and countering. I bet you I can do that. I bet you I can do that. That would be very interesting. It would be a new challenge. Yeah. But that's how you're supposed to do it.

Like guys like me who've been doing it, you can't just rely on the same shit over and over. Because your ability to throw that fast blasting two-step Uchimata, it's going to go away. Yeah. Little by little, your your speed's gonna fade your thalassism fade you know right you start doubting yourself i'm not as fast you know you're counter to when you know it's gonna gonna fade right so he's gonna like develop new things and yeah that's what makes it fun i guess i go i went through that too like i don I don't, yeah, I used to be, I used to spam Semi-Nage, but, you know, my knees can't take that much anymore.

So I changed my game. I'm not going to reveal it here. Because... Yeah. That's cool. You're going to come to a dojo near you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone's going to be surprised.

All right, well, I think we covered a lot For more visual stuff You can check out Shintaro's New series Judo for Old Guys Not series yet I have one video Oh I thought it was going to be a series Maybe

How to stiff arm properly Might be the next video It's actually going to do the judo community a disservice. It's going to be very annoying. Not only the judo community. But then it's like, if that allows more people

to stay in the game, that's a net positive. That's a net positive. Yes, that's very true because retention is more important than grabbing new guys. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't know about that.

They're both important. They're both important. They're both important. But, you know, if you can increase the retention rate, you know, that's always good. All right. Well, anything else we missed? No, man. Look out for more Judo for Old Guys stuff on my YouTube. Yeah.

Maybe it'll be a video. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. All right. be a video. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for listening as always and we'll see you guys

in the next episode.