The Shintaro Higashi Show - Judo Metagame

Episode Date: December 17, 2023

A metagame, often described as a 'game within a game,' refers to the strategies used within a game to secure victory. Every competitive game, including Judo, has its own metagame. Yet, due to Judo's rapid pace and nuanced tactics, its metagame can be challenging to recognize and analyze. In this episode, Shintaro and Peter delve into the most prevalent metagames in Judo today and discuss strategies for developing your own effective metagame. Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show⁠⁠⁠⁠. Any amount helps!

hello everyone welcome back to the shintaro higashi show peter you first and foremost thanks to our sponsors jason and lavon guys send me a message on on instagram dm that you are the sponsors and i will legitimately have a conversation with you right because i was just so thankful you know it's because of you guys that we could do stuff like this and you guys too can be a major sponsor for us as is now fuji is and judo tv discount coach shintaro so thank you very much for that go check that out right got a lot of stuff going on now yeah we're legit we're practically joe rogan at this point yeah we're coming for you joe rogan yeah joe logan with an l that's right yeah so today uh it was a suggestion from one of our sponsors. This is one of the things you could do.

Give us a suggestion. And it's from Sean. And he wanted to talk about, he wanted us to talk about judo metagame. Yeah, metagame, nice. Yeah, so a metagame is a game within a game. So usually it refers to in a sport, for example, there's a strategy within the sport. And then there's a strategy that counters a strategy.

Yes, yes. All that. So that's called strategy within the sport, and then there's a strategy that counters a strategy. Yes, yes. All that. So that's called the metagame. So obviously, aside from the basic fundamental gripping stuff, there's games within the game. Like if you look at tennis, you're hitting the ball to one side, to one side, one side, and crown it, and then you're hitting it to the opposite side of the court. Right. So same thing.

That's the basic strategy in judo, right? You're going like dominant side dominant side dominant side throws turn throws a sort of turn throws a sort of right first right and then you switch it and go for a big society you know what i mean yeah so like that's something you know and then you get like an option like going high throws high throws high throws then you go for a drop technique yeah because they get used to sort of that thing that's like sort of basic strategical stuff that we've already kind of covered in a podcast

right right but yeah I think we should in this episode I thought we would maybe go into more details about like I don't know

in the professional settings we can even go even to BJJ you know you see that a lot in professional settings because one for example in soccer

for the longest time there was a strategy called tiki taka basically it got popular in Spain and you would just pass around everyone but then it got so dominant but then they found a way to counter that by

just sitting back and then going for a counter attack so tiki taka is no more so things like that happen right like I think in BJJ for a while no one looked at leg locks but then donna her and the death squad or whatever they they came over and then they exploded that you know yeah weakness and then the leg locks and now everyone does leg locks right yes yeah so i'll give you some examples of that judo specifically like the cabarelli lift

it's a very georgian style thing yeah and georgians have their folk style wrestling called chida oba which is with a gi sort of like with no sleeves but it's like a vest almost and they go like the collar grip with the back right and there's a georgian a georgian b position when you go over the opposite shoulder and you grab the belt that's georgian a and the receiving side is georgian b that's how i like to explain it right yeah and then going from there and going for these massive lifts was the thing you know so when cabarelli famously started throwing everybody with this everyone's all the russian style guys like oh man we got to use a little bit more of this yeah and then they develop a style yeah you

know what i mean and then now there's sort of counters like preemptively like as they're going over that shoulder timing a sodaote timing a sasai you know and that sort of became a thing and then receiving georgian a and then going georgian b and lifting and throwing from there like uranage like there's a strategical thing that's happening even within the game you know right right so when you go like one of my guys like our guys aren't really good in that position so much my guys are k right? So majority of the times when they get into a competition with a guy that has this style, the match is won or lost in prevention of that, right?

So like having good basic grip fighting fundamentals to prevent that over-the-back Georgian grip. That's a meta game. Yeah, so that's sort of a meta game, right? Yeah. So there's always like one strategy becomes dominant. For example, I'm a big One-Hit Lee fan. He's a Taiyotoshi master, right?

So that was his meta game. He said in an interview, he does this thing where his right arm gets gripped by the other person. He couldn't really shake it off so he actually used that to do the one one-handed taiyatoshi and that was his metagame yeah and now people uh you know people uh emulate them and then also people tend not to grip that with against koreans now because they know it's coming. So things like of that sort. Yeah.

And a lot of Koreans and Japanese have a little bit of a thing because they're so close and they train together a lot. And I used to go to Kokushikan University and see Korean guys

there all the time. Like Ahn speaks Japanese and goes there all the time and trains. And there's a lot of hybrid Japanese- Cross-pollination.

Yeah. Yes. So the Korean judo style was developed to combat that two-handed Japanese judo yeah they did lots of one-handed stuff lots of drop stuff lots of they even have a Korean say nagging yeah that was there was truly a to combat the traditional Japanese style but the Japanese players started doing it before it got yeah yeah before got bad but I mean that was super successful for a little bit you know because most guys have a

two-handed judo style and then the Koreans kind of mastered like not letting the Japanese grip putting one hand on and as they're trying to get the collar grip they'll connect hands and then they'll go rip it right you know and then there were a lot of drop senagi so Koreans started the whole curve the whole country started up in this style yeah you know you rarely see like a stand-up uchimata guy coming out of korea no not really no yeah it's usually now the metagame korean metagame is revolves around a lot of the hand throws you know just drop drop techniques yeah yeah interesting stuff yeah and we have our own metagame here in

the states in a sense like the focus on newaza like travis you know the over under pass yes you know and all that like i i mean you you can tell the story better like why did jimmy pedro and all the squad came up with their strategy i mean because you're just not doing enough tachiwaza right as the guys in japan or the guys in russia so they figured hey ben like whatever these guys go for a sacrifice throw or miss a throw there's a transitional new waza period which is like a five to ten second window where you can kind of attack so they specialize in that yeah you know they won majority of their matches the jimmy pedro guys kayla travis uh jimmy page with those with the masters with these pins you know semi-final

travis stevens have pinned the georgian guy right up yeah so it's like whenever you go sumigai ishi going for that you know if you get a sumigai ishi tomonage drop senagi guy you could really sort of cycle through these like turnovers and chokes and armbars from turtle right in the transitional period and then really capitalize on that so some people specialize in this. Look at Kanto. So that's sort of a meta game that you can kind of develop to win matches. Win matches and it could be your thing, your special thing. And then it's like, okay, then you kind of have to expand based on that.

Like how do I force guys to go for bad drops? You have to be able to outgrip them. You outgrip them and then you put a dominant position. if you can't throw big little big hurrah you outgrip them so they're like oh man this is uncomfortable let me go for bailout or drop said Aggie and then that's exactly where you wanted yeah you know I mean Jimmy Pedro has that whole group sequence right the grip system right yeah because grip fighting so a big part of his game right and then when you get an outgrip cheese relentless was the tax and he forces game right and then when you get an outgrip he's relentless with his attacks

and he forces Nwaza and then when the guy goes Nwaza he's already beaten you know yeah it's like when a jiu jitsu guy pulls guard on a judo guy

that's a meta game in a way it is a meta game because it's like oh man do I want to get taken down or play this gambit style game where I

retreat a little bit, go to the ground, and then when he engages, try to sort of swap the position. It's essentially a takedown. How is it different? So having that kind of a style, that's a metagame in itself.

It's a masterful way to pull the guy into Newaza, whether it's Tomonage, Sumigayashi, whatever it is. Obviously preventing over-under pass and the quick passes is a big one. pull the guy into Newaza, whether it's Tomonage, Sumigayashi, whatever it is, you know? Obviously, preventing over-under pass and the quick passes is a big one, so, like, hiding that sort of a thing. The way you're teaching Judo at your BJJ school is kind of a metagame right now, right?

Like, instead of just pulling guard, you now see an opening where you could just actually throw a Tomonage in. Yeah, everything i teach at the jujitsu school is based for jujitsu yeah right i don't teach any stand-up like straight tachiwaza osorogare harai goshi i don't teach any of that stuff because it's useless to these guys yeah yeah so what are these things that jujitsu guys already do that you could build off of they are already good at pulling guard right and then they're already good at reacting to guard pulling

so the moment you feint the guard pull they have a certain reaction that every single one of these they're already good at pulling guard. Right. And then they're already good at reacting to guard pulling. So the moment you feint the guard pull, they have a certain reaction that every single one of these guys do. Yeah. You know? And then you want to capitalize off of that, whether it's Kochi and then cut the hand, so now you have a dominant position.

And then you could pull guard. Yeah. Right? Or like fake pull guard, fake pull guard, and then actually pulling guard or going for Tomonage. Yeah. That stuff is just so much more useful than doing just stand-up Uchikomi, Haragoshi, Uchimano. These guys are not going to be able to do it.

And it won't present itself when you're doing an actual Jujitsu match. So it's like a very specific type of takedown game designed for BJJ. So we just kind of covered good examples of metagames just to give you guys an idea

You know, I think this actually will make it more fun to watch Yeah, you know like judo and then I know Shintaro has been doing all these commentaries and you know You can follow along and then you know you watch and try to figure out the metagame of each player Yeah, and so now let's kind of bring it to more personal like it I think eventually I want I like to talk to you about like how to develop your own meta game but yeah to start us off what's your judo meta game like what's what's your strategy my show is never letting again let the person get two

hands on I don't want to hands on but it's like always staying in dominant position you know the grip fighting is very fighting and then staying one step two hands on. I don't want to say two hands on, but it's like always staying in dominant position. You know what I mean? So grip fighting is very important. Grip fighting and then staying one step ahead whether it's like I'm showing an attack,

I'm looking for something, I'm setting something up, I'm breaking your posture or breaking a sleeve. Yeah. So it's one of those four things and angling off. So they're always reacting

to something that I'm doing. It's a lot of busy work judo. You know what I mean? Yeah, I see. And I didn't develop my style like that before and little by little i sort of developed this style because i had to teach and make sure people were safe and

i was doing sensei judo yeah and i wanted to develop like an ashiwaza game um so that's kind of how i like to do it right like i don't like just locking up in 50 50 because the risk is too high you get strong you get taken down injury risk is much more. So I'm a lot more grip fighting, moving, feinting, taking the hand off, showing stuff, snapping. He goes for a bad throw, counter that. Yeah, I mean, you guys will know if you ever get a chance to do a round-robin position. You can't really think.

No, yeah, I'm always sort of two or three steps ahead, and you're always trying to catch up, and I'm always moving around. Can I get steps ahead And you're always trying to catch up And I'm always moving around Can I get caught? Of course I can You know, everyone can But you have a very interesting style too Yeah, I mean

That's actually Let's talk about Yeah, my style is more like So I was a very Korean person Do you even remember What your style is, Peter?

I know, I used to I've known you for so long, dude By the way I do it every week now I'm back at it person so i like do you even remember what your style is i know i used to fall along dude oh i oh by the way i do it every week now i'm back at it yeah christian's dream oh oh yeah yeah how's he doing he's good he's good he's he teaches a university class is he in shape pops yeah yeah he's good yeah he's still solid man beats me upats me up. Oh, good, good, good. So I, my game was, so I would like to ask you about how you got to that point more in detail.

But just to give you an idea, give you guys an idea on how I did it. So my style is more like, I have both right, I'm a righty, but I have very good left, a few left throws. And I had to develop that because my right side was getting shot down

all the time so I would show my right that's my metagame I'll show right right right and then I'll surprise with the left

so that's my metagame so to speak and then it's not just that because the first attack is a big left attack Ippon Seragi but

oh and now yeah and then there's like two or three defenses that comes and you use those defenses you just know

the main defenses from there and then you adjust really well right so I can even chain the that's another thing

like I said oh I started doing a lot of the left Ippon Senagi and then I realized that people spin out and all that and I developed

like a follow up techniques through there so that became my like meta game so you're just out all your game right now I developed like a follow-up techniques through that. So that became my like metagame. So you're just out all your game right now. I know. I got to guard this a little bit. You know, I have a target on my back, you know, like people.

Oh, the other day at Christian class, this guy is a listener on this podcast. So he knew me, you know. Good. It's pretty cool. Anyway, so that's my metagame. So the moment you were buzzing i know yeah they just choked me and then um so it rose from necessity for me like i was just trying to like oh i get i'm getting shut down so i'll like add more thing or tweak it so how did you get to

that style right now the the metagame you play like was it out of necessity what was your style before and then how did you arrive here so i'll tell you like when i was younger i did a lot of drop senagi yeah you know and i was a drop senagi spammer i was like a yeah but it worked for me because i was always in a much heavier division with bigger taller dudes yeah right so like turning fast and then attacking kochi turning fast and snapping them down and just having a very aggressive sort of drop Senagi game was really my style

and then I hurt my elbows I couldn't do Marotte so I was trying to do Ippon Senagi but it was kind of difficult I couldn't figure it out and then I kind of

developed the Uchimata game and I started working on it in the dojo and I would work in the dojo against guys who were my size or smaller not taller guys

i had a very big problem with doing this kind of judo to the taller dudes yeah right and then naturally because leg grabs were allowed anytime i got out gripped because of my wrestling in high school and college right i was just shooting on the legs to escape bad positions yeah so i didn't focus too much on gripping back then, but when they took out leg grabs, it was a big portion of my escape system. Oh, yeah. That's another way to develop a metagame. Rule changes, right?

Yeah, rule changes. So then it's like, all right, do I focus on gripping? Do I focus on bailout attacks? Where do I really focus on? And then whenever I would go with tall guys, I would sort of trial and error, trial and error, little by little kind of develop this thing. And then eventually I've developed a Sumi Tomonaga game and my Niwaza get better.

Then my gripping really got better. So now it's like it's very rare that a tall guy comes down my back and grabs or wins position anymore. And just taking the hand off was a huge challenge, right? Because I'm pretty strong, but there's guys who are 220 who are much stronger than me. Yeah, yeah. So trying to figure out how, and I remember specifically to this day how I came about, like, how to take the hand off the collar. Yeah. I went with this kid, Lee Howe, from Austria.

And, you know, he was pretty good as a junior. I don't know if he did anything as a senior. He lived in the United States for a little bit. Nice kid. And he was, I outweighed this kid by 60 pounds, and he would just pulse his sleeve off his collar, my sleeve head, my collar head. Yeah, he would grab my sleeve and just pulse it off,

just time it, and then the hand would almost always come off. And it was so skillful, the way he would like, and I can never keep that collar grip for more than like 10 seconds 15 seconds you you still do that you like a little bit a little bit yeah legitimately got it from that one kid oh wow i mean obviously japanese guys do it you know a lot of champions already do this right consciously you thought you learned it from him because i worked out with this kid who i outweighed by like 70 pounds at the time yeah i was 10 times stronger than this kid physically and then i couldn't hold on to his

lapel and it wasn't a hand strength issue yeah it was him doing it technically and i've seen people do it i've seen people talk about it i've seen coaches try to tell me but like experiencing it there when the kid's 150 pounds and i couldn't hold on to his collar because of what he was doing i was like i gotta get this skill you know i have to develop the skill i was probably like 24 at the time and then i started working that into my game kind of you know it took a really long time did you ask him to show you not really no oh yeah we would just do randori and i'd be like what the hell yeah right and then eventually i was like all right tomonage fake and then snap that hand and pulse the hand down

and go Kochi and pulse it and move and then try to fake a drop Senage and pulse that hand down. So it doesn't have to be like a one shuck and then the hand's off. It'll never come off

because if the person knows it's coming, they'll squeeze. And when they're squeezing, that hand's not coming off. It's literally your ability to push away versus his ability to squeeze, right? So it's trying to time the moments where he's not squeezing like by throwing some ashivazas too or like yeah because the natural reaction when you're falling back like whoa trying to you know keep your balance of your hands and then your hand loosens always right i see so a lot of the meta

style things that i've developed little by little is just, you know, I hate to say it like this, but it's trial and error finding guys and trying to imitate little things that people do. You know what I mean? Do you, are you going through the same process?

Well, let's ask, let me ask two questions, I guess. First for judo, are you still changing your metagame? So, or do you think for changing your metagame? So, or do you think

for now, your metagame's pretty set? It's set, but, you know, for instance, like, I'll give you an example,

right? Like, for instance, Gianni's gotten so good at two-handed Judo, right versus left, and I've been teaching him for a little while now,

maybe two, three years. Yeah. And now he's so good, I don't want to stay in there with him. You know, could I stay in there?

Yeah, but the chance of me getting caught is getting higher and higher. Right. Right. So like the moment he puts his hand on first, which I've been teaching specifically, I'll grab that sleeve, go around the back because that's something that he's not really used to.

You know what I mean? And then from there I could do sumi to one side or the other side, like a butterfly to the other side. And having that sort of a thing really kinds of throws him off because it's something unique that I do that he may encounter and I'm not playing into his game. So then now Gianni will develop, he needs to adjust his metagame. He needs to address that a little bit

and then I'll use that sort of a thing to kind of like go around the back or go belt to belt and hip to hip, which I don't want him playing in that position. Yeah. I don't want to, right? than hip to hip, which I don't want him playing in that position. I don't want to. So he's been taught to kind of like not be in that position for a very long time unless he has to do it.

He's down by a score that's 30 seconds left. So me forcing that game is sort of a thing that I should be working on actively. And it always benefits me because I'm much heavier than him. I have like he's fighting 81 now so when he's cutting weight he's a little bit lighter let's say he's 185 pounds and you know i had a huge launch and i'm 220 that day yeah like that's a big difference to be you know hip to hip with somebody right yeah so like uh that's something that i'm working on kind of you know i'm not actively working on it it. And then if I'm going with a beginner,

I'll force Georgian A or Georgian B because I should work on that a little bit. I see. To give them different looks. And then just in case I get caught in there someday. Yeah, you know what I mean? You have a feel for it. Yeah, and even in Jiu-Jitsu,

it's like, could I be an aggressive... Yeah, I was about to ask you about your Jiu-Jitsu meta game. Yes, because I could be an aggressive yeah i was about to ask you about your jiu-jitsu matter game yes because i could be like an aggressive pressure passer you know because i'm so heavy uh but that prevents me from developing other styles right other loose passing styles and outside passing game and stuff like that just mobility passing stuff so you know i'm actively working on the other stuff open guard stuff from bottom that heavyweights don't usually do that I'm trying to do against lightweights. So there's never a shortage of lightweights that's going to avoid me. Oh, okay.

Yeah. I'm the most popular guy in the room. I swear to God to you. If I say so myself. That's very rare for a heavyweight. Very rare. Very rare. So I adjust my game accordingly and then

try to fill in the gap and i'm not really trying to specialize too much to win tournaments right right i'm trying to be the most well-rounded grappler i want to know everything that's my sort of game i love it so much i want to be able to go into a match and say this guy's the half guard player i'm not i'm not going to enter the half guard which i'll just freaking avoid all of it and just loop loose pass and just destroy him there. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I want to be able to like, this guy only has a guard game from bottom,

like an open guard game from bottom. I'll pull guard first, force him on top, butterfly and sweep him to side control. Just to kind of avoid. I want to be able to do that. That's how good I want to get at all the auxiliary stuff. And if I get forced into that half guard against the half guard player, I want to know that position better than that guy. So that's the kind of approach that I'm kind of taking with jiu-jitsu

where I'm still trying to learn as much as possible. Same with judo. But judo, it's just so much more unforgiving. You make a mistake in training, you're getting slammed. So I'm much less likely to take those risks in judo it's yeah too much the risk is higher for experiment experimentation yeah it is you get thrown on your head yeah you know so that actually is a good uh segue to my i think final question like how do do you recommend to hobbyists,

which are the majority, to develop metagames? Like, do you even recommend developing your own metagame for hobbyists? Or if so, how? What would be the best way? We explained how,

but is there a better way? I think first and foremost, you need to develop someone else's game a little bit first, right? Know the fundamentals. Right versus right, right versus left, the basics of the basics.

Do everything that everyone else is doing and then little by little, add stuff to it that's unique to you. Yeah. Because to invent your own game and invent your own meta from the get-go when you don't know what's out there, it's almost impossible.

You know what I mean? So I think first and foremost you want to develop your fundamental game first and then sort of think about it and have conversations with your coach you know and then you'll start learning new things about your game and your body type and style and things like this you know for instance like me with open passing open guard from bottom yeah i. I have such short legs. Most people won't suggest something like this for me. Yeah, yeah.

Everyone's like, dude, just go force half of it and wrestle up. You have great wrestling background. You could just take anyone down like that. But I kind of refused that kind of like just specializing in that just for specifically winning matches, you know. I wanted to work on my open game. And then I found out because I have such short-ass legs, for me to palm on my leg in front of the person, it's much shorter distance than a guy that's 6'3", 6'4". Yeah, yeah. So it's an unexpected thing. It's like when Ariel Zevi from Israel, who's a European champ, hit me with a drop marote to the left, and he's freaking 6'3", 6'4".

Right, right. I didn't expect that, and he's freaking 6'3", 6'4". Right. I didn't expect that, and I got launched. You know what I mean? And he does that to a lot of guys. It's like, how does this guy have a drop like a Marote Senagi game? Yeah. So sometimes it works that way. You know what I mean?

Because people don't expect it from you. Yes. So that's my answer to that. I hope I answered the question. I can't even remember the question. Like how to develop your meta. Yeah. Start with the basics first because you're trying to circumvent some of the stuff that everyone else knows.

You're trying to know more. And a lot of the times, what's the difference between a black, bless you, a black belt and a green belt or something? Or what's the difference? a black, bless you, a black belt and a green belt or something. What's the difference? It's information asymmetry. You just know more than the person. The person's going to go, oh, it's you. You know how to counter every single one of those things. You know when you're in a better position, they don't. We had a guest

who was like a big, strong yellow belt. He was in losing position, spamming attacks as hard as he can yeah burning the gas tank yeah it's like you're not going to throw the guy yeah you're just not going to throw so you have to fight out of that position first in order to make those attacks count almost right have a shot at taking this guy down you know but he doesn't he doesn't know that you know it's it's like this i think the way i would summarize is uh the meta game comes from you know it's it's like this i think the way i would summarize is uh

the meta game comes from you know it's a game within the game so meaning it's all by exploiting the opening like the gap between games that already exist yeah and the keyword is the games that already exist so you don't have to know what the games are out there in order to identify gaps in them then that's where you can fill in fill in with your own style yes and the magic is in between the lines when you're reading in between the lines right every could read the actual words and understand the thing yeah making inferences and things like this and then threading like even like going from guard to guard yeah i'm going for this thing these are the main attacks that i do from spider lasso i go for this inversion i go for that you know off balance

whatever it is uh you know he steps out of it now i go into like a delahiva guard but as i'm going into it i'm already off balance in the person yeah yeah right so like thinking a couple steps ahead because you know how these play you know this positions integrate with each other yeah right same thing with tachiwaza you know what i mean man hey you know i'll give integrate with each other. Yeah. Right? Same thing with Tachiwaza. You know what I mean? Man. Hey, you know, I'll give you one of the things that you do.

All right. I don't even know. Yeah. I feel like you know my metagame better than I do. I mean, that's what a coach does. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like right versus right, we're winning. We're doing judo, right? Yeah. And you're fighting for that sleeve off, pull the sleeve off, pull the sleeve off.

If I don't have a good control of the collar, you're going to go Taiyatoshi. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And then sometimes as you go on for that sleeve off, pull the sleeve off, pull the sleeve off. If I don't have a good control of the collar, you're going to go tai otoshi. Yeah, yeah. You know? And then sometimes, as you're going tai otoshi, I'll just let go and you'll do a full spin

as you're facing me and then if I'm not conscious, you'll come right at me there. Oh, yeah. You know why I started doing that? I got countered a couple of times in a tournament. I did did that i spun around because the guy let go and then i was just like dumbfounded i was like whoa i spun and then i got countered so

i was like yeah i gotta fill the gap and i'll just say okay i'm gonna use it as like a grip fighting grip breaking technique yeah and then i go for it right into it yeah and then sometimes it's like i take that hand on the collar left left hand post, left hand post. I take that hand off and you break free. Yeah. And the moment you break free, Ippon Senagi Osoro combinations come. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like anticipating that because I've done Judo with you so many times. You know what I mean? And then it's like that transition between like you're trying to escape a bad position because I'm controlling this hand.

Oh shit, it's gone. transition between like you're trying to escape a bad position because i'm controlling this hand oh it's gone let me go get it you're entering ipon senagi right yeah and if you're not ready for the bi-directional thing that you're about to do turn ipon senai or run that osoto yeah right and you can get caught potentially you know what i mean yeah i'm going to make sure to lean to this opposite corner so that stops the Ippon Senagi Ippon Senagi and Osoro together right

like you can block both yeah so that's my leading and then when the Osoro doesn't work you're locked in there

you'll drop drop Senagi there drop Ippon right so you go high Ippon Senagi Osoro drop Ippon Senagi Osoro Drop Ippon Senagi

Yeah But by the time you're dropping I'm already trying to Thread the Choken Yeah yeah You know so like That's like sort of

Embedded in my patterns You know what I mean But if you fake Ippon Senagi And come back Ouchi You might catch me Cause that's something That I'm really not anticipating

You know And there's sometimes In my mind I'm like Is this the day there's sometimes in my mind, I'm like, is this the day that he's going to cut back with the Ochi? Maybe. So it's like that sort of thing where you're kind of like, that's sort of expert level, right? But only after you know the normal sort of things.

Normal people don't go lefty Ponsenagi or Soto. They might go lefty Ponsenagi.oram yeah they might go lefty ponce and agi right so that's why you may catch the beginners right yeah and the advanced guys will react but you'll be able to read those reactions and adjust accordingly yeah you know and the really advanced guys already know that you're going to do all these different things i know all the different options and the one or two off chance things that you may do cut back with an ochi yeah right or like fake all those things and then go back for the sumi guys to the opposite side or something like that very unlikely but maybe you do it i'll i'll uh i gotta give it a go today yeah so like uh so i think this was just a good example of what a good coach should do

yeah talk about that and being able to recognize these patterns yeah I could do it in judo but I could never do it in chess

I'm terrible at chess he usually keeps beating me you guys still play a lot? we played Thanksgiving I couldn't touch him he just destroys me that guy's goals

to tournaments and stuff you know the only issue with me and chest dude i only play blitz games because i don't have the attention span to do it they keep making the same mistakes over and over again that's the problem you know i mean blitz is like it's more fun right but don't you guys have a long running game on on your phones no i can't i can't oh you can't keep my attention for that long yeah i tried to do a 20 minute game though i was like all right i'm gonna do the 20 minute game sit there actually think through all the moves and then go back and study that game

dude like seven minutes in i was already daydreaming like i was like i was like forfeit dude i can't even it's like i mean it's a different game right like if you if you enjoy blitz why don't why not just because like those guys the hustlers in Union Square Park they only play Blitz

right yeah but they've spent time playing long games too oh really have to yeah you just have to I see yeah

anyway metagame very interesting I love talking about Yojudo I miss Yojudo oh you know what I mean

yeah we'll we'll we'll soon I'll I'll go visit I'll go visit yeah and see yeah maybe my metagame

will have changed and I'll surprise you maybe maybe that's when I just go like this that's when I pull guard first oh man

you're dirty pull guard because now you're gonna think like oh I'm gonna try this thing now so you're trying that whole freaking thing, right? Maybe, like, fake Ippon Senagi, fake Ippon Senagi. Like, you know, like, all this.

Maybe you're going to try to cut back Ochi. Oh, it's okay. If I go guard pull, guard pull, Tomonage, Tomonage, you're like, oh, shit, I got to watch out for this Tomonage. And then I go right back into it. Now you're kind of surprised. Right. So I give up my grip. Now you're playing my game.

I'm taking, you know. Yeah. I mean, this is how it is back and forth back and forth i mean that's why you you gotta have good teammates too that's true yeah and that's how you grow that's how you grow and learn i hope this was helpful guys also check out judo tv.com discount coach antaro yeah yeah you know whatever percentage off i think it's 10 off not sure watch highest level judo go check it out thank you very much look for their metagames yeah yeah cool all right thanks for listening guys and we'll see you guys in the next episode