The Shintaro Higashi Show - Situational Training

Episode Date: August 28, 2023

Traditionally, Judo training relied almost exclusively on uchikomi, repetition training of throws, and randori, free sparring. Does this paradigm still work, or is there a more efficient way of training? In this episode, Shintaro and Peter discuss "situational training," where Judokas repeatedly drill specific situations and positions. Is it more efficient, and if so, how could we add it to our regular training? Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello guys, welcome back to the Shinto Higashi Show with PDU. Today we're going to talk about situational training. Yeah, and before we jump in, we have to say thank you again to all of our supporters, especially LeVon, one of our biggest supporters. Thank you, LeVon. Yeah, thank you, LeVon. And situational training, this is a follow-up from our previous episode, Finishing Throws. Yes.

Yeah, so I think it's more about how to train for these uh situations where you have to try to finish the throws yep yeah yes so how do we go about doing that like you you kind of gave us a teaser you basically put yourself into that situation more yeah and i don't want to repeat myself with the ochi uchimata position so So I'm going to go completely different. Ready? Okay. All right. Situational training. Start in losing juji position. All right. Start in armbar position.

Okay. But you know, this is not even specific to, there's many ways to go about this, right? Right. All right, guys, we're going to start in armbar position. Person A is going to try to finish the armbar. Person B is going to try to not let the person finish. Ready, set, go, right?

Yeah. But this is the caveat here. Yeah. You could just make it to finish the person, finish the person, to not let the person finish. Ready, set, go, right? But this is the caveat here. Yeah. You could just make it to finish the person, finish the person, reset, finish the person, finish the person. Right. Or you could get finished and then intensity immediately gets reduced, right? And then you have to fight out of it after you get submitted. And then the round continues as if you escaped.

So you're working specifically on when the submission fails. I see. Like you somehow got out of it. Yeah, the guy got out. So now you have to scramble into new positions, scramble into other submissions, right? And usually because people finish it, they're like, oh, I finished.

I'm done, right? Yeah, yeah. It's not like that, you know? You know, I actually, that's, I think, I noticed that BJJ people are a lot better at that. They, even if, because I tend to stop right away. Like when the finish, on the ground, when I make the guy tap, I was like, okay, this is good enough. But then I realized that when I went to BJJ school, people school people would i get they're pretty much taught to continue through it like try to get out of it even

i mean it depends on how much you trust the partner yeah you know what i mean those guys i'll never give my full arm to because i feel like they're gonna just get so excited they're gonna try to break it yeah it's just too excited you know they just don't know any better you know what i mean but there are people that will train better. You know what I mean? But there are people that will train that way. You know what I mean? It's almost like flow rolling, almost, yeah?

Kind of. Yeah. I don't like that term, the F word. So you don't like the flow? Yeah. But you know, you can also do a rule in the gym

where it's a catch and release kind of a thing, right? When you get the submission, whether it's like, all right, I don't know, take down whatever uh take the back and you finish the choke rear naked bang yeah you just loosen it and let the person fight out of it as if they escape so it never really starts you don't have to like get up tie a bell reset quick fight the one person pulls guard you know it doesn't have to be like that. You know what I mean? There's continuity always. And I really like that. You see what I mean?

So I think that can be applied to ground techniques more because you can kind of continue through it, but when you're standing, how would that work? So if you're finishing ochi and you run it out of bounds and

the person hits the wall right because especially we're in new york city right so it's like yeah very limited always you know what i mean yeah there's these like mega dojos with like 3 000 square footage of just mass space and like these middle lower places i've seen those like this in new york city that'll be 30 grand a month so yeah it's not feasible to have that so when you're doing ochi or whatever you run in and bang hit the wall you just walk back to the middle and reset there oh I see so now it continues because the issue is

every time you run out of bounds time stops you walk back to the middle you like meander a little bit walk around face each other grip fight a little bit you're only really being exposed to that initial grip fighting thing most of the match. Right.

That's when I take my breaks though. That's when you take the breaks and that's when the people pound their chest, wear their sleeves, wipe the sweat off their forehead and then they're like circling around, kind of engaging, pulling back, engaging, pulling back. It's a huge waste of time. I see. It's a huge waste of time.

So like having that kind of a thing, you run a technique out of bounds, you see. It's a huge waste of time. So like having that kind of a thing, you run a technique out of bounds, you walk back to the middle and you start there. That's always a good thing that you, you know, I haven't really done that yet in the dojo, you know, but we do do a lot of situational training now with like, all right, we're going to start, one person starts Ochi, you know,

and dedicate it, not just full blown Rondori, but like, all right, one person starts Ochi position. If the person gets out and put four feet, touches the floor, right? That's it. Ends and the other person goes. I see. And two minutes on the clock, just alternating, alternating, alternating, alternating. That's kind of what you mean by like

catch and release in a way, like, oh, if something doesn't work, or what would happen? How do you keep the momentum going if someone's thrown, though? Well, no, you just get back and you start in an Ochi position. Oh, like back into the same position. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

Yeah. As opposed to Fembo and Mandori, when you enter a position and you run it out of bounds, you start back in the middle in that same position. Right, right. I see. Yeah, which can also be a little bit dangerous too. So you got to have two people that you trust each other. You know, you don't want people like, oh, I was in an Osoto position.

Let's get back in there. And then you start in the middle and they poke the leg and they start ripping and roaring over here, you know, dropping their bodies on the floor. We can't have that in the dojo ever, you know? Right, right. But hopping Uchi is a little bit safer. Yeah. Oh, I was going for Taniyatoshi. Let's start where I'm sitting on the knee. Very sick boy, I'm going to dive back to the side, you know, point the leg, body weight over that leg. Right, right. Oh, that would be awful. That would be awful. So those are some examples, you know.

And you see these Mongolian guys doing Mongolian wrestling. And this is something I saw when I was in. Bok. Yeah, the Bok wrestling. Yeah. But, you know, when I trained in Korea, when I was in Jeju Island, right? Oh, yeah.

I was there for World Cup Korea. And then the Mongolian national team was there. The French national team was there. We did a training camp. And before practice even started, okay, the French were playing soccer. I remember that. They were kicking the soccer ball around. They were doing soccer, joking around.

Some guys were stretching. Mongolians were wrestling. Oh, man. It's their pastime. They'll balk. They'll balk. Yep. They'll go chest to chest, over, under. are stretching mongolians were wrestling oh man it's they're like past time they're like they'll walk yep they'll go chest to chest uh over under grab the belt they're built wrestling seriously and they would just go and it'd be like half speed lifting push downs but they were just playing not like in an aggressive it was aggressive but like not all out, playing one person's battles, no ego. That's like roughhousing kind of, like kids like this, yeah.

Yeah, but it was very mellow because they had to do judo training afterwards. So they were like doing situational play wrestling from chest to chest, belt to belt. And they're lifting and they're like, oh, you got me, ha ha ha. And they're not trying to take the person down at all costs. They're not trying to land on the person. If you're losing your balance, they're just like, oh, you got me. And then they would, like, take a break for a while. It was just fun and game, fun and game.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they did this for, like, 20 minutes straight, dude. What did you guys do, the Americans? Americans, I think, I don't remember, man. I remember just lying there watching. Oh, just, like, mesmerized by other countries. I will never forget that day. They were playing this game, these two French guys, right?

There was this black guy playing with a little kid. Yeah. They were on all fours and trying to pull each other's hands to make their face plant. You ever see that game? Is it the one that you stand and then push each other? No, no. You're on all fours.

Oh, okay. You're trying to pull their hands out from underneath. Oh, it's just a face plant on the ground. Okay. Yeah. So this guy playing with a little kid. And I'm like, why is there a little kid on the mat? Okay.

Yeah. So I'm like, they're playing. They're having a good old time. Everyone's watching. So I'm like, let's see what's happening over there. I walk over there. It was Teddy Vernier playing with a guy my size. He is that big, huh?

He's humongous, dude. He's humongous. And he was nimble. He was nimble. I see. Oh, my gosh. Hey, you guys are one way closer away from each other. Yeah, isn't that crazy?

Yeah. That's nuts. Anyway, so I see. So this kind of play wrestling can help in this situational training too, you're saying. Yeah, play wrestling, you know, Georgian A, Georgian B. How can you do that safely? You know, when someone throws Georgian A over and then they're ripping and going and judo and they're both unfamiliar, something dangerous is going to happen.

So how do you build that familiarity within a safe environment? And going 20, 30% speed just play fighting and having little goals like, all right, Georgian B, your goal is to lift him off the ground, right?

Not put him down hard. Just lift him off the ground. You know? So I think some people are asking about this term Georgian A and Georgian B. Yeah. So Georgian A is the one

whose arm goes up over the top. Yeah, the same side shoulder. Yeah, Georgian B is the Georgian A is the one whose arm goes up over the top. Yeah, the same side shoulder. Yeah, Georgian B is the receiving end. Yes, and then you generally start with the tricep. So there's a couple goals, right? Georgian B generally is trying to lift them. Georgian A is trying to pull the person down so that they can kind of go for a big turn, right?

Right, right. I mean, you could lift from Georgian A also. Yeah, A, yeah. So those are some of the goals. Georgian B wants to clamp the triceps so they can't turn away from you. Right, right. Georgian A wants to free that arm. So there's a couple of mini games and mini objectives even within that game.

And then interlocking the legs so they can't get taken backwards, right? Things like this. So training specifically in those scenarios yeah is what i'm talking about you know i see yeah because everyone's talking about mini games now oh i know what sort of objectives can we do and you know when they're talking about like judo soccer with a little beanbag to practice your foot sweeping skills that's's useless, man. Stop doing that. That's not a mini game. You know what I mean? Just playing soccer might be just even better. Have fun, get a warmup in. Although every single soccer before practice that I've seen, someone always goes down there and it's

so bad. What do you mean? Like during a regular soccer practice yeah like soccer practice pre-judo in the dojo oh yeah they it can get like aggressive like people get really a bad idea especially yeah it's like you can't your your feet can get can get caught i saw a guy trying to kick the ball yeah and they nailed their thumb their toe into, the mat was raised a little bit. Dude, he broke his toe. I've seen that. Oh, my God. You know what I mean?

I've seen this girl one time, dude. Like, died for the ball. I don't know what she was thinking. And this guy went to kick the ball and kicked her in the head. Oh, my God. Yeah. That sounds more dangerous than actual soccer. Dude, I'll never forget.

The coach was like, oh shit. But then he was like joking around. He goes, oh, she's faking. She's faking. Everyone laughing.

They're like, she's faking. She's faking. And one of the guys is like, she's really hurt, man. She's like, oh my God, you know. She could have,

he tried to defuse the situation or something. They used to play piggy. The U.S. national team would go on these events and they would play this game called piggy. Where they would like throw the ball past it and then their goal is to like hit the ball down into like a gi at the end of the thing. I think like the San Jose guys, the California, West Coast guys kind of started it. Oh, I see. And Travis will never play

because he thinks because of the injury I think so I think so you know I've seen him play before but like on these trips before competition

he would never play I mean yeah it makes sense I'm pretty sure I've seen him like play with it like just in general I see

but you know those games are kind of we're not talking about those games yeah mini games I see. But, you know, those teams are kind of, we're not talking about those games. Yeah, minigames. I see that a lot in, like, soccer when I was, you know, playing soccer competitively.

During training, you don't grimace, really. No. Soccer, it's more about, like, these minigames, like keeping the ball away from the other team or, like, and nowadays especially

they try to divide up the field into different sections and then they drill like i'm talking about pros here they drill what should happen in those different sections of the field that's called like i forget the name there's a name for it but it's a new new training methodology and then so they only played all these mini games yeah never really the full game yeah that's interesting yeah yeah to be specialized and then focus hyper specifically on some objective that may be part of like right you gotta break it down you know it's like all right let's yeah kick this ball into the net you know uh can only get you so far right yeah yeah yeah

because it's it's not as focused and yeah and then it's not as efficient and that's what we're getting at right with situational training

yeah starting a losing position yeah you know person A you know they used to call it A man B man

in wrestling right A man B man A man starts with a single you know B man's defending with the overhook whatever the wizard you know yeah wrestling actually they starts with a single you know B man's defending with the overhook whatever the wizard you know yeah wrestling actually

they do that a lot you can't do that anymore it's A person B person that's right yeah I mean girls wrestle too you know that's right yeah

that's good and yeah but I noticed it too I mean I go to my old high school's practice too and then you know you know person, top person, right?

And then you keep going. Like one of them hits a switch. Yeah. And then you follow through. One of them tries to stand up and you follow through. Yeah. Things like that. So I guess, yeah, I don't really see that much in judo.

Like a lot of times it's just like, all right, warm up, Uchikomi. I mean, when I'm doing competition training, right? Yeah.

Not me specifically, but when I'm training some of the guys who, let's just say there's a tournament coming up, most of, a lot of our guys are going, you know, and when I say a lot, like 10,

you know what I mean? Yeah. Cause that's a lot. I don't push it at all. I really don't, you know, yeah. I don't make everyone go. It's not another, you know, you know what I mean? It's not meant to at all, but when a lot of people don't push it at all. I really don't, you know. Yeah. I don't make everyone go.

It's not another, you know, you know what I mean? It's not meant to at all. But when a lot of people want to go and they're like, all right, we're preparing for this thing. All right, we got to do transitions. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so we're going to put a minute on the clock. You know, ready, set, go. The person's going to move around, move around and drop Sanagi. Mm-hmm. And then transition to Waza. The goal is not to throw the person

with drop Sanagi, but just to do it at a random time. Misdirecting, timing, faking, coaching, drop Senagi really quickly, and then the top person has to defend it, and then transition into something. You know what I mean? So the person who's taking it

is obviously practicing transition, but the person who's doing it is practicing drop Senagi. And you can even be more specific about it, right? Person A, A man, B man, or be more specific about it, right? Person A, A man, B man, or A person, B person, A has dominant position, B's moving around, moving around,

A's snapping him down, build that technique, tomonage, transition over on the pass, go. From the tomonage, yeah. Yeah, so now you're training staying in the pocket, right? And you know that A person is not going to slam B because that's not the goal. The goal is for B person to do a bailout move.

But if the person who's receiving that tomonage, if they can see a tomonage coming, it's a very easier time and over-under pass. Right, right. Right? So the person who's doing the tomonage is faking tomonage, move it, faking tomonage, move it, try to get out of that position, get out of that, doing the tomonage is faking tomonage move it, faking tomonage move it, try to get out of that position get out of that, ah tomonage

so they're training tomonage entries yeah and then the person receiving it is training transitions in a way that's more realistic and that's a great game right there that's a great transitional

mini game sort of a thing that you can do in the dojo that's a great game right there. That's a great transitional, you know, mini game, sort of a thing that you can do in the dojo. That's very low intensity, low risk, okay? Injury rates are very low. And something that could definitely help you win, start winning. You know? And that's a good use of your time. Yeah.

As opposed to walking out of bounds, fixing your geese, walking out of bounds, fixing your geese, grip fighting, one person goes, she drops it, nothing happens. Yeah. Look at the Rondori in the room, man. Majority of the rounds that you're watching, nothing happens. Nothing happens.

You think anyone's getting good under those conditions? They're not. You know? So it's, I mean, we talked about this a lot, but, you know, in Japan, they rely on this like free exploration by people through yeah just a lot of randori but they can do that because they people have been doing judo for a long time all their lives and then there's just so many people and the best guys are just going to immediately rise to the top, you know? Yeah. But there's guys in the room who are bottom 25 percentile who's just circling, fixing

their geese, fixing their hair, wiping the sweat off their head, going out of bounds, going for a shitty throw. They're just dogging it. Oh, it's good. They do exist in Japan. Oh. Yeah. Bro, and you know what, man?

There's people like me. Yeah. Japan. Oh, bro. And you know what, man? There's people like me who will do one hard one, one semi-hard one, and then every third or fourth is one of those guys. And I have my group of guys to rest. And we always make eye contact across the room like, yo,

we're good here. And then we'll use a restaurant, we'll bullshit, we'll just be a much more reduced thing where it's like we're going to both keep each other safe. We're going to both do some technical stuff, but we're not going to kill each other. Cool. And we have a mutual understanding, you know? Yeah.

Oh, I see. We're still working on stuff. Don't get me wrong. Yeah. But when I'm really tired. Yeah. Sometimes it's like, all right, bro, we're just going to chill here. You know, and sometimes when you're the senior.

Yeah. You can just say, yo, we're just chilling here. I see. Don't come after me. And then they're like, all right. But if they are forcing you to do situational training, you can't really do that, I guess. Yeah, no, you really can't, you know, because now all of a sudden your leg is raised,

you're going to get taken down every single time. Yeah. I mean, the person can not take you down, but I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of easy to see then. And this is the thing, because it's so concentrated, you know you're going to get good ROI on that time. Right, right. On your time and energy.

So it makes sense to actually do those. You know what I mean? Even though they're not as fun as just football and doing one story, 100%, just this like frantic, like take each other down kind of a thing. you know what I mean even though they're not as fun as just football and doing one story 100% just this like frantic like take each other down kind of a thing

you have to mitigate the risk in the room you know and see like how you can best spend your time and it's doing these little games

right right right yeah that makes sense so are you guys doing that a lot in KBI right now we're doing a lot of the finishing stuff

you know and people are used to it now and it's actually kind of a good tool for beginners too to learn how to break fall. That's a good way to look at it. Yeah, because none of these throws, when you're lifting ochi and finishing it, they're not going to be too like high impact techniques. You know what I mean? Right.

Even though Soto, you know, and then it teaches them to kind of like, because we're reduced, not to chop the knee inwards. Yeah. Right. And then it teaches them to kind of like, because we're reduced, not to chop the knee inwards. Yeah. Right. And then like using their hands and feet together while keeping your balance. And the majority of that technique, that finishing is me putting my weight onto you. Yeah. So teaching them how to do that.

It's a great learning tool. I think that's been very successful. And I thought this was for advanced guys. But I think the beginners and the intermediate guys are getting the most out of it. You know? Oh, interesting. Interesting. Now that's where I'm at with that.

That's what we're doing right now in KPI. It's probably more fun to them too, right? Definitely. Definitely. And we've been doing a little bit more Tachiwaza to Newaza transition stuff.

But when I teach the Newaza portion, a lot of it is in that transitional method. Right? I see. Like pulling guard, tomonage. Yeah. Right?

Into like the delahiva and the overhead sweep, which is a double tomonage sort of a thing. Yeah. If that fails, you're in delahiva and you go one or two different sweeps from there. Right? So it's not quite jujitsu. Yeah. Like we're not going deep diving into like collar sleeve, this and that, spader lasso, delahiva versus delahiva. You know, he goes knee cut, I goitsu, you know? Like, we're not going deep diving into, like, collar sleeve, this and that, spade or lasso, De La Riva versus De La Riva.

You know, he goes knee cut, I go this, you go this, you go that. We're not really doing that, you know? Right, right. It's still geared towards judo, but it's a little bit more of a Brazilian jiu-jitsu influence. People will love that comment. You know what I mean?

Oh, man. Yeah, so introducing that kind of a thing, I've been doing a little bit more. You know, I like the idea of Tomonage as a, you know, a really, you know, to put in your system, right? So like doing the Tomonage and then using that as an entry into Nwaza

when you're drilling, right? It's beneficial for both Judo and BJJ. I mean, why do you just pull guard when you can't even useless in nogi useless in nogi useless i guess it's you can't really do tomoyanage with nogi yeah i mean you could do like head and wrist but it just doesn't work yeah yeah yeah yeah well you gotta uh you'll figure out a nogi system too. Nogi Komunayo system.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think we covered a lot for situational training. Yeah. And we've talked about this bits and bits here and there, like throughout the years. But I think it was good to dedicate a whole episode,

especially in the context of learning how to finish throws. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good episode. Anything else we missed? No, join us on Patreon. Yeah. Join us on Patreon. Thank you for listening.

Thanks for listening. Thank you for being here, Peter, as always. Yeah, thank you. This wouldn't be possible without you, Shin-Taro. This wouldn't be possible without you, Shin-san. It wouldn't be possible without you either, though. Good duo. Dynamic duo. All right.

All right. Thanks for listening, guys. And we'll see you guys in the next episode.