The Shintaro Higashi Show - Skin Care for Grapplers - An Interview with Dr. Doug Krohn

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Shintaro sits down with Dr. Doug Krohn, MD from CLn Skin Care to talk about skin care for grapplers. Dr. Krohn debunks common skin care myths among grapplers, offers recommendations on treating skin diseases and basic hygiene protocols. You can find CLn Skin Care products on https://www.clnwash.com/ or Amazon! Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today we have a very, very special guest, Dr. Doug Krohn. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. So you are an expert in the skincare field. You own CLM Skincare, correct? No, actually I'm on the medical advisory board of Clean Skincare. And I'm one of the pediatric representatives for clean skin care.

Awesome. And I thought this was kind of a perfect union, you and us, because there's a lot of misinformation when it comes to grapplers and skin care. So some, you know, one of the things that like, for instance, Matt herpes is like sort of a thing. You ever heard of that one? Yeah. So we call it herpes gladiatorum or herpes of the gladiator, herpes of the warrior. I don't know what's a myth about it. It's a very real thing and it could be a very big problem. Yes. Yes. But the medication is still Valtrex, correct? So Valtrex is one of the medications that can be used. It can be used to treat people who have an infection.

It is also available to people preventively. There are some people who take it every day or every day during the wrestling season if they're very prone to it. So what is the difference between like oral herpes, general herpes, and then the mat herpes? Well, there isn't a very big difference it really has to do with where it is on your body and how you communicated it um oral herpes is usually herpes simplex virus one but it doesn't have to be it It could be herpes simplex virus 2. Genital herpes is usually herpes simplex virus 2, but it doesn't have to be. It could be type 1. That's the worst one, right? You really don't want that one. I don't think any of them are particularly good. And for reasons that I don't agree with, I think that there's more shame placed upon the genital herpes

but yes you know the mode of transmission is the mode of transmission we don't attach a moral judgment to it and i don't think any of these things are anything that somebody wants to get or chooses to know yeah because i remember when i was wrestling in high school there were skin checks and at new york state championships i was wrestling for third and this kid had stuff all up inside his beard and we're going to talk a little bit about shampoos and cleansing products that's why you're here right so this kid had all these like bumps and stuff and he was a dark-skinned kid with dark-skinned beard so you couldn't see unless you're like really close to him i shook his hand the whistle blew and then he put his face against mine and i got it. You did.

He got it all over me. Yeah. And then so then they gave me valve checks and I kept telling everyone, Matt, herpes isn't really herpes. But then everyone's like, oh, you have herpes. And then, you know, I was like, it was like so shameful. You know what I mean? I was so pissed that I got this thing. But I never had a flare up after that.

So like, what is. Right. So not everybody who gets a primary infection will get a recurrent infection. Many people do. And there's lots of things that could put you at risk of that skin trauma, which is obviously a big risk factor for wrestlers, judo participants, etc. Sun exposure, a different illness, stress. These things can lead to recurrences. So I remember when I was in high school, I told my coach, he had all this stuff around his chin and neck.

It was disgusting. Am I going to get it? He said to me, don't take a hot shower because it'll open up your pores and the herpes will soak into your skin. True or not true? I'm going to say probably not true. i think oh that see that's a myth that's

a grappler's skin myth the bit the bigger issue is that there was a breakdown in your skin integrity maybe it was from trauma rubbing against your competitor rubbing against the mat maybe it was eczema that you had underlying or a previous skin injury like a scratch. But there was a breakdown in skin integrity which allowed the herpes virus to penetrate your skin and then infect you.

Because I was in high school, I probably had pimples on my face already, right? And I used to pop them. So that break in the skin is where the herpes virus went into my skin is that right to make that i can't prove it but if that's your theory sounds plausible to me and we could talk about athletes also yeah yeah so if a guy has that right like herpes virus but you have no lesions in your skin the pus gets onto your skin because maybe the guy doesn't know he has it and

you're wrestling or doing jujitsu with the guy right this will never happen in judo but then like what could i still get it if there's no breakdown in skin integrity you don't have a cut you don't have irritation it is less likely uh but i can't say that it's impossible remember people have small breakdowns if they're not even aware of that's very true that's very true okay so other things that can potentially happen right so very very common is ringworm staff impetigo right those are like the main ones you could you know jump in there and tell me maybe there's more. You absolutely have hit on the biggest culprits. Herpes, fungus, as you said, and staph infections and non-staphylococcal skin infections too.

focaccia skin infections too impetigo is a skin infection with a very characteristic appearance that is usually caused by staff uh in wrestlers but it could be caused by strep also including the same strep that gives you a strep throat less common in the wrestlers yeah so when you're going like which i know for a fact right impetigo is probably one of the most contagious ones is that it's something that's like a myth or is that like a real thing no no that's extremely contagious and so now you're talking about somebody who has an active infection on their skin and then an active infection, if rubbed against non-intact skin, well, there's a very high rate of infection. And even against intact skin, if the load of bacteria that's introduced is very high, you even have a risk there. Yeah, I got it a couple of weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago, like a month or two ago.

Somebody had it on their neck and then I got it on my neck but then it moved up into the hairline right so i treated the skin on my neck and i was like oh it's good but then it like creeped up into the back of my hair you know i have long hair so it's like and then it was absolutely disgusting and you have a shampoo to beat that combat that okay so what clean skincare has is a body wash and a sport wash that has sodium hypochlorite in it. And sodium hypochlorite, also called bleach, when it's in a pool called chlorine, it has the ability to wash away bacteria, wash away fungus. to wash away bacteria, wash away fungus. And it is recommended that athletes wash themselves within 30 minutes of a practice or a competition to reduce the incidence of bacteria on their skin,

colonization, and infection. So the temperature of the water does not matter at all whatsoever? The temperature of the water in the shower? Yeah, because like I said, like there's a myth about hot shower can open up the pores. Therefore, you're much more likely to get it. I'm open minded to anything being possible. But I doubt that the temperature of the shower water is a giant contributor. It has to do with introduction of the germs, the microbe, the bacteria, the fungus of the shower water is a giant contributor it has to do with introduction of the germ the microbe the bacteria the fungus the virus whatever it is and the possibility of a loss of skin integrity a little breakdown in the skin okay so would you say like 30 minutes

within 30 minutes after training you should definitely take a shower is that like the kind of the right thing that's actually the recommendation of the National Athletic Trainers Association. That's an official policy stance. So if you can get that shower in and get in with something that is effective at washing away microbes, that is ideal. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. So similarly, like across all the different skin infections you could potentially get that

shower wash immediately can be all of them. Like it's the same sort of treatment. Reduces the incidence of nothing's a hundred percent, but yeah, that would be a good strategy for reducing the chance of a viral skin infection like the herpes you were talking about. That would reduce the incidence of a bacterial skin infection like the staph and impetigo that you were talking about. And also fungal. Fungal. Yeah, because athlete's foot is a real thing, right?

Athlete's foot is definitely a real thing. That's a big one for grapplers because a lot of judo jujitsu guys they grapple without any shoes so now you know you see it like you you look trying to like break someone's ankle and you're looking at their feet and it's crusted over and then all of a sudden you got these crusty feet right so what's the protocol for that same idea just clean shower so if you're talking about an infection um the cleansers uh the clean cleansers and other cleansers are not appropriate for the treatment of infection they're good for cleaning yourself in the shower if you have an infection you need an antimicrobial so antibiotic if it's bacterial and antifungal if it's fungus or yeast.

Interesting. Interesting. Okay, so wash afterwards and then cream to prevent the fungal infections, right? Cream to treat a fungal infection. You probably wouldn't use an antifungal as prevention. We generally reserve those agents for when you're actually infected and that's why a body wash and a sport wash like the clean uh body wash and the clean sport wash um is good as part of a cleansing regimen for athletes because, you know, the idea is to have your skin clean before you ever get infected. So there used to be this thing called Selsun Blue or like dandruff shampoo. Yeah.

And then they used to say like dandruff shampoo can kill all this stuff. So we used to take head and shoulders, wash our head and then lather our entire bodies with it but you know i have like really sensitive skin you know what i mean so it's like i didn't really like how my skin felt afterwards but is that like a real thing or is that like a myth grappling myth about the selsun blue yes i think the ingredient was pyrithione zinc yeah so that's what that's what's in that's what's in head and shoulders. Yes. And in selsun blue, I believe it's

selenium that's in there. So in those doses, those aren't going to be great for treating an infection. They'll do something, but they're not going to be great. You may need an actual oral or topical prescription or over-the-counter antifungal, but using it in kind of a preventive

manner might be reasonable. But you brought up the fact that it's very irritating to your skin. Those are very strong things to use over your entire body. Cleansers, you know, for example, the Clean Skin Care Sport Wash, it's a combination of a surfactant, which is a soap, with the sodium hypochlorite. And so that's going to be a gentler and more traditional kind of cleansing option. So where can my listeners, if they're listening or watching

this video, where can they find some of these products? The clean skincare products can be obtained directly from the clean website, which is cleanwashclnwash.com you can get it from amazon oh nice you can get it directly from amazon wow interesting so what about like guys who have like body like you know some people who have like when you're about to i don't know if you'd grapple at all but like when i

grapple sometimes i smell people and they're like, oh my God, it's disgusting. Right. And there's some things, right? Like we wear judo geese and t-shirts and rash guards. And sometimes even though their body is clean, but something in their sweat or whatever it is, bacteria gets into the fabric. And even though they wash it, when they start sweating into the uniform, it immediately starts sweating. They smell it again. Right. So is that like uh should tip me off like i don't want to work out with this guy because his situation is unsanitary or like what is that about it and what can we do about it right so body odor and the official name

of that is bromo hydrosis or the medical name um body odor has to do with what's called your skin microbiome. So those are all the bacteria and for that matter, fungi that are living on your skin that aren't necessarily infecting you. But you may have an imbalance. You know, you have too much of one or a few different types of bacteria or fungi on your skin surface. And that begins to not smell so good. Washing those away, cleansing away those microbes will reduce the incidence of body odor. Okay. But then what about when they start sweating into the fabric, though? Like, is that a, what can they do to, like, treat their uniform?

Is that like a. Right. So a new one. So that's what I tell my guys. I'm like, oh, if it starts smelling, just buy a new set of you. Right. So, you know, clean sport wash is a lot of good things, but it's not a detergent. You can't use it in place of tides.

You're going to have to take that stuff and wash it. And what i would say and this isn't an official recommendation and this isn't even my recommendation as a pediatrician this is my recommendation as the father of four competitive athletes wash those clothes immediately after the practice or competition yeah that's that key that you got to do that otherwise they say i mean have you ever smelled someone's hockey bag or lacrosse bag oh it's disgusting i smell guys who take their judo uniform leave it in their bag overnight forget about it bring it into class the next day and

no matter how many times you wash that thing it's it's done right it's cool right and and then all all of the you know microbes the fungi the bacteria that was on that person's skin, you know, depending on how long ago was that they took the uniform off, it's still on the uniform. I would wash that stuff frequently and immediately. So do your kids grapple at all or no? No. So I had basketball and lacrosse players. Okay. So it's not as prevalent, right?

Skin infections in those sports? Not as prevalent. So by far the most common is grapplers. So wrestlers, 74, 75% of athletes who get skin infections are wrestlers. Yes, 100%. A distant second place is football players um yeah but uh it's without a doubt wrestlers regarding the skin so you're bundling in that wrestler umbrella jujitsu guys judo guys grapplers period mad athletes mad athletes great okay so now let's i'm going to ask a question so judo has a gi a

uniform yeah right you know the pajama looking thing like a martial art yeah same sport essentially as wrestling a little bit different rule set yeah but with a uniform jujitsu has gi and no gi right no gi essentially same as wrestling has the rash guards that skin tight they have the shorts that are like you know tight so nothing falls out but it's a lot more skin to skin content yeah the prevalence of skin infections in nogi versus gi is that something that i don't know the data on that and so i can't comment but yeah my you probably assume though nogi is a lot more disgusting my intuition would be that the less skin that's covered the more opportunity there is for skin infection and the transfer of infection from one person to another.

Yeah. So let's just say someone has a lesion, like a staphylococcus lesion on their arm and it's oozing. They have a barrier, which is like, let's just say a T-shirt, and they're wearing a judogi on top. I'm wearing a judogi on top. I'm wearing a T-shirt underneath. We grapple. Is it much reduced risk there? They're wearing a judogi on top. I'm wearing a judogi on top. I'm wearing a t-shirt underneath. We grapple. Is there much reduced risk there?

If your skin is covered and the lesional skin is covered, there's a reduced risk. What I can't comment on is the thickness and the transmissibility of the cloth, the fabric, et cetera, et cetera. I do want to point out that sport washes and body washes would not be appropriate for the oozy skin that you're describing. That person needs medical treatment. A cleanser would not be appropriate right there. Perhaps as an adjunct, but it wouldn't be a definitive treatment. Yeah, that's a very interesting thing. Yeah, it like kind of like wearing a mask when corona right it's like how much of it is useful you have the can 95 versus like the regular you know the uniclone mask it's like what's the point of even wearing it you know so it's very interesting so let's just say right the guy this

here's another myth when you have impet, it starts off as a pimple. Okay. Correct? Impetigo? It could. It looks like a pimple. Excuse me. It could start off as a pimple.

I mean, it could just start off as like a patch of infected skin. Okay. So sometimes it's like, oh, it looks like a pimple on my arm. And then you start messing with it and then it starts oozing if you leave the pimple and it doesn't break you could still grapple without transmitting it is that like a myth yeah i think that's a myth if somebody yeah so because a pimple is a very small pustule there's a droplet of pus it's only a droplet um but it still has pus on the inside of it and of course over the course of wrestling and it getting rubbed that pimple can open true okay so how about another one here guy has a let's say ringworm now for this hypothetical okay guy has a ringworm

on his arm he knows it's ringworm he He likes scraping it, putting cream on it, whatever. Right. He goes, oh, you know, it's fine because I'm taping over it with athletic tape. Sometimes they'll put like pre-wrap and then athletic tape over it. It's fine. It's not contagious. There's a barrier. What do you say to that guy? Is that true even? Well, what I can tell you, you know, because I'm a physician in New York State and I treat a lot of wrestlers, I know what New York State's Interscholastic Athletic Association would say. treated for 72 hours, three days, and then cover it. Oh, okay. And using tape or something like that would be sufficient, but they would have to be on treatment for at least 72 hours. So the 72 hours is specific to ringworm or also to staph and impetigo and all the other stuff?

That's for the ringworm. Okay. What about if it's in patago right so i have to be honest with you i don't know if there's a minimum duration of treatment before return um i do know that they're not gonna let you wrestle if the lesions are still open and weeping yep so what if you're in the still open and weeping. So what if you're in the training room and someone says, hey, I taped it up. It's fine. Don't work out with that guy. Don't let that guy on the mat. Because that pus could get on the mat and then your face could go in the mat and then you could still catch it.

If they're actively infected and not treated, for sure, no. If they have a resolving infection, they've been on treatment for several days, and they have it completely covered, there may be circumstances in which they could participate. But you have to be able to guarantee that the wrap that you're covering it with isn't going to come off, etc. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what is a good protocol? Like, for instance, like you mentioned some things that I could purchase through your website right now that can kind of help me minimize all this risk. Like, I don't even want to think about it. You know, there's stuff like defense soap and this and that. But it's kind of like, I don't know if they work. Like, no one really knows much. You

know, like I gave you, 10 myths that we hear. And we're not getting these things from dermatologists. We're getting it from other grapplers who've been grappling who have had skin infections. That's it. So it's like, what is the protocol would you suggest if you're a grappler? Judo, jiu-jitsu, wrestling, sambo? Yeah. What's a good one?

I know you already kind of mentioned this, but, like, the full spectrum. Yeah. What's a good one? I know you already kind of mentioned it, but like the full spectrum. Okay. So the first thing that I would recommend is that after every practice and after every competition, you shower and cleanse within 30 minutes. That's number one. 30 minutes.

Number two, I think you want to use something that's going to give you full body coverage. So the Clean Sport Wash, the Clean Body Wash, and then Clean also has a two-in-one wash that has the sodium hypochlorite and also a moisturizer in it. They're in gel formulations with a squeeze-top cap, so you can squeeze it into your hand, get it on your body, also use it with a shower brush, which is something that the bar soaps a little bit more difficult. It's a lot easier to get coverage with these gels with surfactants and sodium hypochlorite in it. Squeeze it, get it on your body, use a washcloth, use a shower brush. And I would use those, those again within 30 minutes of competition

the other thing that i would do is if you have dry skin you know dry skin is more prone to trauma and so the use of a moisturizer um and that actually became an official recommendation in the treatment of eczema, um, which is dry skin with dysfunction on the superficial layer of the skin. In, uh, December, the joint task force of the American Academy of Asthma, Allergy, and Immunology and the American College of Asthma, Allergy and Immunology recommended that over-the-counter moisturizers be used for everybody with eczema and that kind of dry skin. There are numerous excellent moisturizers that are available over-the-counter. Clean does have its own moisturizer that has ceramides and niacinamides in it and those are excellent for retaining

moisture and fixing tiny cracks in the skin surface that's really interesting it's funny because sometimes like when you're wrestling and stuff some people call it greasing when they put lotion on their arms so now they can't grab a hold of their wrist to like crank on their arm because it's slipping and sliding right so there's like a little bit of a fine line of like oh you know i use moisturizer on my arm but then the other guy's like no he's cheating you know so well i wasn't i wasn't thinking of using the clean moisturizer for a strategic advantage and i certainly wasn't thinking about it about getting an unfair edge but you know if that's what people do, I'll stay out of it. Yeah. But the, usually the moisturizer is okay just in the morning or something like that. And

then it helps your skin be better. So there's less likelihood of infection because it's the integrity of your skin is better. That's exactly right. The moisturizers preserve the integrity of the skin. It's going to be most appropriate for people who are prone to dry skin and using it once or twice a day. I would probably recommend twice a day if you can do it. It's hard for a busy teenage athlete, but definitely do it right

after you get out of the shower when you have some moisture on your body to trap in there with the moisturizer. Interesting. You did mention something about sun exposure. What was that about? Well, I was talking about sun exposure at the beginning of this interview in regards to causes of recurrence of a herpes outbreak.

A very strong sun exposure can bring it out in a part of the body that's been previously infected. So you'll often see cold sores on people's lips in the summer. They're out in the sun at the beach all day and then they'll get an eruption. I thought like sun would do the opposite of that because like, you know, bacteria doesn't like sun or something like this. Well, first of all, herpes isn't a bacteria. It's a virus. Well, first of all, herpes isn't a bacteria.

It's a virus. And it's a virus that actually lives within nerve endings, nerve projections in your skin forever. It doesn't totally go away, which is why some people get recurrences. And a direct trauma to that skin can predispose to a recurrence. In this case, it's not blood trauma. It's light trauma. It's light trauma. It's photo trauma. So will sunscreen prevent me from having an outbreak? I would say that it would reduce the likelihood,

but it can't fully prevent, I would guess. Interesting, interesting. So what are the most common areas you think for grapplers like i feel like i feel like this is just like a feeling it's mostly around my face that i get it face neck and then i guess you kind of explained already because it's not covered yeah well where i see it is on any part of the body that's not covered. And I've seen it everywhere on the arms and the legs. But I would agree with you. The most common place I've seen it is the face.

And, you know, wrestlers often have their face up against the body of their competitor as they're trying to throw them or, you know, flip them. Okay, so here's another question. I'm wearing a rash guard at training and there's a guy with an infection and his infections on his face it gets on my rash guard right i take the rash guard off i shower i do the whole protocol i bring the thing into my backpack right and then i go home and i take the thing out and I wash it. But how long can the infection materials stay on my bag, on my whatever it is? And can I get an infection from that? Let's just say, for instance, my skin on my hands are messed up because of grabbing the geese.

See, my hands are messed up. And there's a break in the skin. Can it get in here while reaching for my bag for like a pair of socks or something like this so it depends it depends what kind of infectious agent is on the rash guard um viruses are not going to live on there as long as bacteria generally oh that's interesting you know but like a a droplet of pus or something, you know, certainly for at least several hours can transmit things. So important to throw those things into the water and important to wash your hands, you know,

after you handle those materials. Yeah. So we used to have this thing called like skin protect cream before you would wrestle. Is that a protect cream before you would wrestle is that a thing that you guys have or is that a thing that you recommend or is it just like kind of a gimmick i don't see i have not seen this in like 10 15 years when i was wrestling in college they had these like foam cans where it's like all right guys circle up and then you would spray the foam into your hand then you rub it all over your body and then start wrestling i don't even know if they do that anymore i haven't seen it since like is that something that you know about so

that's not something that clean skin care carries as to whether or not it's a gimmick or not i mean i would have to know what the active ingredients are so i can't really comment. Can my herpes, sorry, I was just making it about me, but can my herpes gladiatorium get turned into like a, you see, this is why I'm not a doctor or a medical anything. I don't know these things, so, you know, excuse my ignorance, and I may really come off like a dummy here, but it can never turn into simplex two or one, right? It can't just transfer in, and all of a sudden i have genital herpes so what i think you're asking is whether it can go from one part of your body to

another you're not you're not really asking if type one can turn to type two or type two can turn to type one you're asking if i have a herpes on my face or on my arm, can I get it to another part of my body? Yeah, in certain parts, special parts. If you scratch at the lesion and then you touch a different part of your body or scratch another part of your body, the answer is yes, you can auto-inoculate. Man, that's messed up. Definitely don't want to be.

Man, it's kind of a disgusting sport that we all do, you know, grappling. Well, we're here to help. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so top two recommendations for your website for grapplers who are listening. Like, what would they be? The sport wash? the sport wash this the sport wash would be number one and number two there's a two-in-one that is used as both a body wash or a shampoo the two-in-one is sodium hypochlorite but it also has glycerin in it so it's moisturizing so if you've got wrestlers who are

prone to dry skin um perhaps in general they're prone to dry skin because they have eczema or perhaps from all the bathing that they're doing and the showering they're getting dry skin um the two-in-one which is has the sodium hypochlorite which will help wash away microbes but also has glycerin so it's actually acting as a moisturizer while you're in the shower nice i have a thing that i kind of came to a conclusion by myself again i'm not a medical professional so i'm gonna sound like a dummy yeah right but i used to get eczema and i used to take these super hot showers because I loved hot showers.

Yeah. Right? And it would get crazy dry skin and I would get this eczema and then because of that I would get skin infections easily. Like if I went to a wrestling room and someone had something suspicious

I would freaking get it. Right? So eventually I was like you know what? No more hot showers for me. I stopped taking hot showers and then you know again with the temperature

and the showers and then my eczema kind of went away. Is that like you know what, no more hot showers for me. I stopped taking hot showers. And then, you know, again, with the temperature in the showers, and then my eczema kind of went away. Is that like, you know, a thing? Or is that, am I just kind of like making it up? Well, let me tell you something that you're totally spot on. And that's that skin with eczema is more prone to infection. And as a matter of fact, we know that skin with eczema has higher colony counts of

staph and people who have eczema have higher colony counts of staph even on the uninvolved skin so you have your skin with eczema it has high colony counts of staph in about 80% of people with eczema. But even the healthy appearing skin has higher incidence of staph. And as a matter of fact, that joint task force that I spoke about in December that recommended the use of over-the-counter moisturizers, the use of over-the-counter moisturizers. They also recommend the use of bleach baths, sodium hypochlorite baths, because it's going to improve the eczema. The mechanism of action is not exactly known, but there have been studies that have shown that the use of sodium hypochlorite can reduce colony counts of staph aureus.

What do you say bleach bath? You're not talking about like taking bleach and putting it in the bath and jumping in. Well, that's what has traditionally been done. Clean offers the bleach bath in a bottle now. But for 300 years, what has been recommended is that you fill up your bath with water, you put a cup of bleach in it, and then you... A cup of bleach? Yeah. Wow, that sounds kind of scary.

Or half a cup of bleach. And then you go and you sit in it. Well, yeah, you got to sit in bleach and it might get into your eyes and it might make the bottom of the bathtub slippery. that it might make the bottom of the bathtub slippery. But now, not only is the use of bleach cleansing recommended for eczema, you do have it through clean only available in a bottle. So you don't have to take the bleach bath. You could take the bleach bath into the shower in the form of a bottle wow interesting i did know a guy that

would take bleach like from you know the bleach the regular bleach put it in gauze and then put it on his thing and then every other day this is where it got nuts yeah uh he would like scrape off the ringworm like this every like you know with a razor and then he would put the bleach gauze back on and he would repeat it until it just kind of went away in like two or three days. How'd that work for him? I think good. But I don't know.

I really don't know. I mean, like he also probably, I actually have no idea, you know, but he swore by this method. And he was like, every time I get ringworm, this is what I do. And it kills it right away. And I'm good.

I wouldn't recommend that. I certainly wouldn't recommend taking a razor to your infected skin. And I don't think that bleach should be promoted as a treatment of an infection. It can be used as a cleanser that may reduce your rate of infections in the future, but it can't be used as a treatment. But what your friend was doing by taking the bleach and putting it on a gauze, that was a big maneuver that started in World War I and what was called Dakin's solution. And Dakin, who

was actually not a doctor, he was a chemist campus was putting bleach in a relatively concentrated form on gauzes and putting it on battle wounds um i can't really recommend that that's not something that uh clean skin care offers uh there are no uh there's no dakin solutions or battle dressing There are no, there's no Dakin solutions or battle dressing. That could be your next product, you know, razor and bleach all in one. Could you imagine? Man, there's so many. I'm not going to take your good idea, Shintaro.

I'm not going to take your good idea. You've got a business there. Man, so many like, I don't want to say misinformation but you know there's myths right and when you're wrestling in high school you have other high school kids kind of telling you this that this that and then you bring it to college and then you just have a lifelong of grappling and then you have all these like little assumptions about skin infections well that's how adolescents get their information they get it from one another very true yeah and tiktok so what is the difference between MRSA and staph and i want to know a little bit about like staph locacus virus because they say even right now like i don't

have any skin infections but it's living on the surface of my skin yeah even right now right so Staphylococcus aureus is a bacteria, not a virus. Yeah. MRSA stands for methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. So it's a strain of staph that's resistant to a specific antibiotic, methicillin. And so if you have MRSA, your treatment options are limited. If you have non-resistant Staph aureus, you have many more antibiotic options that are available to you. So both MRSA and Staph aureus, they're both Staph. They're both Staph aureus. It's just that MRSA is referring to the antibiotics or a group of antibiotics that it would be resistant to that wouldn't be effective at treating it. So it's significantly more dangerous to get MRSA. Well, you can have a non-MRSA infection that's quite invasive, but at least you have lots of treatment options.

The problem with MRSA is that if it does begin to get out of control, you have fewer options with which to treat it. So when you go into an operation, you know, any kind of an operation, I'm getting elbow surgery or something, Oh, the biggest risk is infection. It's not a staph infection, right? Well, it could be. That they're talking about? It could be.

It could be. But there's a lot of other types of infections that can potentially get into the bloodstream. Yeah. And once you're in a hospital setting, there's going to be, for obvious reasons, even more kinds of bacteria that could be potentially harmful. So in terms of for wrestlers and stuff, right, they're like, oh, I have staph. Oh, my God, it's MRSA. You know, it's not reacting to treatment. When does it become dangerous?

Because, like, the myth is like, oh, it starts on the skin. It spreads. It gets deep into your skin, gets into your bloodstream. Now you have a systemic infection. You know, these are things like wrestlers and grapplers are always talking about. Well, that does happen. I mean, that does happen. That's, that's not a myth. I think, thank goodness, that's not how things go commonly. I think you just described the worst case scenario and, and for the potential of something bad to happen. That's certainly a possibility. But that's not generally how it goes, thank goodness. But the fact that those things do occur is why we treat them and why, you know, if we could create

priority, we'd want to prevent it from happening at all by keeping the skin cleansed properly. prevented from happening at all by keeping the skin cleansed properly so my friend's leg who had he thought it was in patago let it be he was kind of like oh you know it's just fine it'll just dry out and it'll go cure itself and he was putting bleach on and stuff and eventually his whole leg swelled up right what is that well i don't know what it was but i mean it may i mean it may have been in the tiger that got out of hand because it was he was like it's a mercer it's mercer you know and then uh yeah he thought it was mercy you may very well have been right how'd that end for it does he still have two legs no he's good okay good yeah another question so there's a guy i know also who had this kind of a mercer thing so they had to give him tons of different types of antibiotics, right? That wasn't. And then he claimed that it nuked his gut microbiome and it made it very difficult for him to eat, digest food. And then like the gastric emptying process was very affected by the treatment of the staph infection or the MRSA. Is that something that could potentially happen?

Yeah. So I don't know about his stomach emptying and the intestinal transit time, but antibiotics absolutely affect your gut microbiome. And it sounds to me like your friend had an MRSA infection that was resistant to numerous drugs. They had to hit him with several different antibiotics, it sounds like. And without a doubt, that's going to change the bacteria, including the good bacteria and the important bacteria that lives in your gut, that helps you digest food, that actually helps you fight other infections. And I find that completely plausible that your friend had an MRSA infection on his skin. It got out of hand. He was treated with multiple antibiotics. And then he ended up with a gastrointestinal problem. That completely plausible and i've seen that happen so the number

one thing that if everyone's listening the number one takeaway is just take a shower with your dispense soap within 30 minutes of working out period take a shower within 30 minutes with a product that can cleanse away bacteria, fungus, and viruses for sure. Yeah, and the cleansing away is the surfactant side. And then some of the ingredients in your product, that's not just a surfactant though. That's something else. That's right. So a surfactant is more or less a soap.

You know, it's going to trap particles that are on your skin and wash it away. And there are surfactants in the body washes and sport washes that clean produces. The sodium hypochlorite has a different mechanism of action. chloride has a different mechanism of action um and you know we we know that there are studies not of the clean body wash but we know that there are studies of bleach for example that shows that it um can reduce the amount of bacteria and fungus and things like that wow so interesting okay so everyone take a shower right and how much is the defense soap that sport one really interests me because like right now i go to you know like uh for instance i train at a gym this morning and they have their soap right like not their soap something like soap that they get wholesale you pump it into the thing it's

like in the in the bathroom. I have no idea if it's like legitimate soap or not. You know what I mean? It's probably some cheap stuff. And then even at my gym, it's like some people bring in their own soap and they just leave it in the shower. So it's like, oh, let me use this. Let me use that. So if I were to pick a product from your line. Yeah. Right. Well, we don't make defense. So that's a different company's stuff. And that's a bar of soap stuff that's and that's a bar of soap we make the oh no not that not that what you're yeah well you know with uh depending on whether you have a coupon or a promotion code or something it'll it'll cost in the 20s for oh wow for a full bottle.

I thought it was going to be a lot more. I don't know why. No, it's not. I'm thinking to myself, like, oh, you know, can prevent MRSA and prevent this. And, like, you know, you won't have staph on your face. I'm like, I'll pay a lot for that, you know? No, certainly with a coupon and a promotion code, and even without, it's going to cost in the 20s. Awesome. Awesome. So any other advice do you have for some young grapplers who are dealing with some of this stuff? Um, I think that if they have eczema, uh, and they're grappling, they should

treat the eczema. Um, and, and certainly bleach cleansers is now an official recommendation. And also the use of over-the-counter moisturizers. That is one thing. Number two, as we kept saying, shower as close after an event, a competition or a practice as possible and also clean your apparel daily if you need to um and uh you know a a third thing uh that i would recommend is that you know you'd be very cognizant of skin that's not intact yeah got it uh this is purely for myself but like if I do a morning SPF right like a sunscreen and then if I do a retinol solution at night you know like for my ache I don't want to look old right I'm about

to turn 40 uh-huh what does vitamin c do in this because all the skincare people like vitamin c is good for your skin and when should i add that in in the morning or at night right vitamin c serum this is perfectly for me right so vitamin c is an important co-factor in the cross-linking of collagen, which is a protein that's found in skin and bones and the gums of your teeth, I don't think you're going to run into too many problems unless you're vitamin C deficient. Oh, so you don't need to actually put vitamin C on your forehead. I think if you have a healthy amount of vitamin C in your diet

from fruits and vegetables and things like that you're gonna be okay all right that's good to know that's good to know all right thank you so much where can we find your product one more time so the people who are listening can go buy it uh so the name of the company is clean, capital C, capital L, lowercase n. It's Clean Skin Care. You can find all the products on Amazon. And you can also find it on the company website, cleanwash.com, C-L-N-W-A-S-H.com. Awesome. Thank you so much.