The Shintaro Higashi Show - Starting Judo

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

People start Judo for many different reasons, but it can be daunting for everyone just the same. In this episode, Shintaro and Peter discuss what to do and expect when people first start Judo so that they can start their Judo journey right. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Today we're going to talk about starting Judo. Yeah, so I think we started Judo a little differently than most of the hobbyists in the States, I guess. That's true, I had a dad who did Judo. It was indoctrinated into me from a very young age that if you don't do Judo, there will be consequences. If you don't do judo, there will be consequences. Yeah. And for me, I wrestled in high school and judo was an extension of that. But now, you know, most people in the States start judo as hobbyists.

And then we've seen a lot of, we've met a lot of them. And we've seen how, what would be the best way for you to start and then stay in it, I guess. Stay with it and then continue doing so. So we're going to talk about that a little. I think our primary demographic, I mean, you can start judo as a kid. Your dad or mom brings you to a judo program or something. Specifically to our audience who's listening. I don't think there's kids listening to this and saying, mom, dad, I want to go to judo.

So specifically talking as an adult starting as a hobbyist, like a grown adult, or even somebody in their late teens, I think we're going to talk a little bit more specifically about that. Right. Yeah. Maybe you're a jiu-jitsu guy that wants to break into judo too. Who knows? So I think, I guess in that way, the first thing is to kind of think about is why your goals what are your goals why do you want to do it and a lot of the times people can be broken down into one uh i want to you know get

fit get in shape is one goal i want to learn how to defend myself is another goal and another one is like hey i want to cross train yeah or find a find a good community just make friends yeah make friends yeah it's hard to make uh friends as adults you know if you're at the workplace and there's that office politics happening and this person's trying to backstab me and promote themselves over me and all this stuff and you're sick of seeing them on a day-to-day basis and you want something that's a little bit segregated from that right maybe your college friends are busy your childhood friends are all married and you want to tap into sort of a new community of people yeah that's going to make you better yeah it's it's a great way to make friends

you know um it is yes because you have a it's like i think that the intentions could be more pure in that sense like not like not like pull a party we're just here there you know everyone's equal on the mat kind of thing yeah but yeah so having all all of those are great goals self-defense fitness friends and cross training everything so what would be the next step you know your goal what would be how would you go about fine uh starting judo once you're whether you have to pull up google that's the first most important thing because uh the proximity to the gym is pretty important yeah so if you're coming from downtown and then it takes one subway ride to get to this dojo or the other dojo and then you could they're

equidistant almost just a couple of stops like that you know doesn't really matter right but oh the difference between like there's a judo school five minutes from my house versus the judo school 50 minutes from my house that's a pretty big difference because it's like the scalability we kind of talked about that in the podcast episode. You can't, it'll be easier to start and stay in if it doesn't feel like a chore. Yes. So it's much more sustainable to keep going

and commuting if it's close. If it's right down the street from your house, then it's very easy to dip in after work. It just adds another level of resistance if you have to go home, get your gi, and then travel over here and work is over, and you have to triangulate this thing. You're calculating your commute time.

It's like, man, it's going to take an hour and a half out of my day to just get there and train, and I'm going to take a beating. It's like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. No one wants to do that. So proximity is kind of important. So you have to do that. Google judo school and then try to go you know try to find something close yeah something close and then not only close but

you have to have you have to shop around a little bit and check out all the different schools then you have to see if it fits and aligns with what you're trying to do because if your goal is to make friends and then you go into a judo school and they're super competitive and everyone's trying to compete and people aren't as friendly because they're you know all trying to be high level competitors that's not the right school for you right right you'll probably get hurt yeah but shop shopping around as a beginner who's never who's just starting out is i think it's a little tough because you don't know i mean you can you hear a lot of these things like oh look for this sign

that sign but it's hard to judge because you've never been so any tips around that like how do you actually shop around you know i'll go observe a class or take a class even yeah you know ask if they're offering some kind of trial class situation. And I always, always highly recommend taking a trial class. That's huge. Observing a trial, yeah. I've done trial classes at gyms and dojos that are completely unrelated to judo. I did a trial class at a Taekwondo school once.

Yeah. Yeah, because my friend owned it. Yeah, three of your friends, right? And you almost joined it. I almost joined it. It was so fun. K kicking pads with little kids and giving high fives and he said something about cake i was like this cake some of those some of the things you want to look out for right high fives and cake high five the cake yeah no it was just a very good vibe like overall uh you know was that martial arts school a good fit for me in terms of skill acquisition?

No, I already have all these skills. From a skill acquisition standpoint, it's like, what can they really teach me? Not that much, right? I don't want to be coming off as crass or too arrogant, but it's a basic Taekwondo program. Right. It's a basic Taekwondo program. Right. But with that being said, was it a great atmosphere where I would feel good and get a great workout in and sweat and then feel like I'm part of the community?

Yes, absolutely. So just based on that alone. Oh, you have community events on Thursday nights. You're doing this and that. And oh, that person looks really cool. And oh, I could see myself being here right and if you want to be part of a community that's what you want to look for yeah and say like if you are bjj practitioner and you want to add to add judo to your standard game yeah then you probably want to look for schools with teachers that have done bjj or at least are cognizant of it right so that they can kind of tailor

their instructions to you a little bit yeah and a lot of the times if you're interested in judo from watching stand-up judo and it's beautiful and you want to learn the takedowns and then there's no judo school near you. We did an episode about this too. Right. Right. The next best thing is jiu-jitsu. Yeah. So you go to a BJJ school and then there's three jiu-jitsu schools in the area and then you ask the instructors, hey, how much stand-up do you do?

I really am enamored by this takedown stuff, the judo stuff, the throwing stuff. Do you do any stand-up at all? Dojo A, Jiu-Jitsu Academy A says, throwing stuff. Do you do any stand-up at all? Dojo A, Jiu-Jitsu Academy A says, no, we don't do any stand-up at all. We open bar. Okay, you know, maybe not the right school for me. Jiu-Jitsu School B, yeah, we do takedowns, but we're all

super heavy into competition. May not be good, but maybe the third school is a great fit for you you take the class they do a lot of stand-up they do gi they do no gi they're friendly you know you make friends right away and it's like oh this place is amazing you know maybe it's the right fit for you right even though it's not exactly judo it's like it's the next best thing right right i'd rather someone listening who wants to start to do judo do jujitsu if there is no judo then not do anything at all right it's better than nothing yeah yeah it's definitely it's a good thing to do yeah you know

so now yeah so now you've um you've picked the school you shopped around a little picked the school so you're trying to you're joining the gym so what are some of the things that you need to be aware of, be careful of if you want to come off not arrogant you don't want to come off like a prick and I think it's very easy and too personal for

people to want to prove that they can fight being able to fight is such a personal thing I can defend myself even though in this day and age you don't want to prove that they can fight. Right. Right. But the fight is such a personal thing. Right. Right. I can defend myself is even though like in this day and age, you don't really need it. Right. Right. You it's not like we're living in the jungle or living in a time where people were just going to attack you.

Right. Maybe if you're in New York City on the subways now, it's not a skill, you know, that's a requirement. It is not. It's modern society now. Yeah. skill you know that's a requirement in this modern society now yeah you know you could like uh live a full life very happy successful without ever touching martial arts period yeah a lot of people do just that yes but still people have this inflated sense of i can defend myself i am very primal i'm freaking strong i you know i don't know where

these guys fool themselves into thinking that they're great fighters but people do this a lot of like if you if you're a good athlete and then yeah if you can bench a lot lift a lot i feel i hear it all the time it's like i'll beat that kid's ass like no you won't you've never gotten a fight in your life you know what are you talking about yeah so you want to sort of curb that kind of uh attitude going into it right right hey man do you have any skills uh is this your first time uh you know doing judo it's like yeah but i've done boxing i'm like that's that's great you know uh oh yeah i could throw hands it's like i really don't give a shit if you could throw hands right Right. Where is this coming from? Like, yeah, no, I know how to hold my own.

It's like, get the fuck out. You know? We don't need you here. We don't want you here. Don't be that guy. Seriously, come with a humble attitude. Hey, I'm here to learn judo. And then if they ask you, what are your experiences in grappling or martial arts?

Say, hey, yes, I did X amount of years of jiu-jitsu, X amount of years of boxing. But don't come in with this attitude of like, hey, I'm a freaking fighter. I grapple. Who cares? No one cares. Yeah, as much as you want the community to fit you, you want you, it's two-way street, right? Two-way street, yeah.

Yeah, you got to be able to fit in and get along with all the people there. Your after-school activities of doing martial arts, X, Y, and Z for X amount of years does not impress anybody here. Especially not Shintaro. Especially not me. I like it when people are like, oh, and they're humble about it. We had a guy actually yesterday in the basics class. He was wearing a white belt.

And I was like, you did judo before, correct? Because he's like doing everything. He's like, yes, I have a showdown. Oh, he has a showdown. Yeah. He's like, yes, but it's from a different school. And I want it to be respectful. And I'm like, man, you can't start off as a white belt.

So what did you do? You gave him a black belt there? No, I was like, next time, wear your black belt can't start off as a white belt. So what did you do? You gave him a black belt there? No, I was like, next time wear your black belt. Oh, he has a black belt. Yeah, yeah. Oh, it was a judo showdown and he still didn't want to wear it. Yeah, it was a judo black belt. Yeah, it was very weird.

Oh, okay. Yeah, not weird. You know, he was trying to be respectful. Be respectful. Yeah. You don't have to respect everybody, but you have to be respectful in the dojo. Yeah, yeah. Because respect dojo. Yeah, yeah. Because respect is earned.

Yeah, right. That's right. That's right. I actually wanted to make an episode about this because martial arts is about respect. It's like, okay, define respect. Right. That would be a good episode. What does that even mean, right?

Like, I respect X, Y, and Z. It's like, dictionary term is like admiration. I admire for a skill or attribute or whatever it is like right respect everybody you admire every single person that you interact with oh that's a good point yeah you don't have to you don't have to admire everybody but you can be respectful like having there's a difference between having respect for someone or and and being respectful to that person. Yes. Yeah. It's an adjective or adverb or one of those adverbs. Adverbs.

That's right. Adjectively. So the be respectful, you know, be humble. Be respectful. Be humble. When someone shows you a sort of girl, you don't say, yeah, I know.

Uh-huh. Why are you here to learn it then? Right yeah and then another thing is so that's like the skill acquisition part i guess and then um i think a lot of i think a big big topic of uh controversy for beginners is like how you approach randori sessions as a beginner when you start out so yeah i mean we have different types of people we talked about right like bjj practitioners coming in like experienced grapplers versus complete beginners so i know we kind of know what yours take on it is but then as a student like should you like oh ask for it like oh i can do randori yada yada or is it not i guess it's not is it disrespectful in a way i think you have to

sort of know the policy of the school yeah a lot of judo schools still to this day you can walk in as a beginner and do randori the first day we're very weird about this right we don't let beginners just do randori period because it's dangerous if they do randori they're going with a much higher belt right and it's a catch-22 because even if a beginner or intermediate even does judo for a long time they're only going with higher belts when they actually do throw them they'll never know if they actually threw them or if they're giving it to them so So it's a very, very frustrating thing. Because the wins are coming in a way that it's controlled by the person giving it. Right, right.

And you don't actually know if they're real wins. So it's very frustrating. Yeah, some people get really frustrated by it. It doesn't feel like you actually did it. No, but a lot of these schools are like, okay, yellow belt versus yellow belt. White belt versus white belt. You guys can do Vendori. Right.

That's extremely dangerous. Right. Does the school allow that? Maybe the school allows white belt versus white belt. And it was up. Or maybe it's situational. Hey, we're going to start half guard with the underhook topside or lockdown position. White belt.

Okay. You have 45 seconds escape or pass. Right. that's a live roll it's like semi randori on the nirwaza less dynamic less injury risk you get a little bit dinged up yeah right so hey is that allowed hey you know what are the randori protocols knowing that is very important and asking specifically hey can i partake in this activity i think is a good way to approach it yeah ask yes ask and if there's someone new in my dojo i'll always say this too it's like hey guys uh you know we had a green belt guest yesterday at a school you know relatively close by but like their school shut down and he's like hey watch your stuff for a long time can Can I train with you guys? Sure

Randori time comes around and I'm like, hey, are you comfortable doing one Dory? He's about he says yes I am I was like, I don't really know how safe you are yet It's nothing against you, but I would be comfortable if you only went blackouts today No way we could gauge where you are. They're not gonna try to kill you or anything Yeah, but you know hand select these guys and then we'll. We don't allow Tanya Toshi for brown and below. Yeah. Obviously, we're wearing green, so no Tanya Toshi. You can do it to these black belts, but you can't do it to anybody else.

I see. I see. Right? So that's very, very specific, conversational, clear. Right. Right. I mean, obviously, we're talking about beginner judo. He wasn't a beginner.

Exactly. But, you know, it's almost like, yeah, some people like starting out judo as in like going to a new school. I think that applies to, yeah, a different school. Cool. So now, let's see. So we picked the dojo. We came to the school. We learned some techniques and we we're doing randori and all i guess another thing was

like um maybe people will be curious about this too like socializing hanging out i guess yeah well like what would be the right approach yeah like i don't know it's just uh do how do people usually hang out after Judo? So there's like the soft skill situation, right? Right. The social skill. And some people are socially awkward. Yeah.

And if you're starting martial arts as an adult, you're probably more likely to be a little bit more socially awkward than socially graceful. On the spectrum of things, generally speaking. And it's like trying to meet a lady at the gym yeah right right and if you time it in a way where it's inappropriate right because i'm not working out you're doing drills you're a higher belt person hey you want to grab a drink it's like i'm in the middle of my workout you know so you kind of have to time it building rapport little by little i think is important and if there's a friendly face in the room that you want to get to meet you don't want to be lurking and looking and lurking right and then you know uh you know hey excuse me and then there's no time limit on

how long this interaction might take therefore the person's likely to be inclined to you know i'm gonna i have you know what i mean right not everyone not everyone is on the mat to make friends either i guess that's another thing you need to be cognizant yeah yeah so i think uh being socially graceful in that way where it's like hey i want to meet this person you know you're standing sort of near them not in sort of an obvious way and then hey you want to work out hey you want a partner and then if they say yes obvious way. And then, hey, you wanna work out, hey, you wanna partner. And then if they say yes, then you drill. And then you wanna be sort of a likable, coachable person, especially if they're higher ranking than you.

Ask questions, not too much. But there's a little bit of a graceful nuance thing there. Right. Right. And even after practice, it's like, hey, thank you for teaching me this. Yeah. And I see it all the time.

Some people are very, very good at this. They have the skills, they could walk in, make friends with anybody on the first day most people are not usually like this you know i'm actually not like this too all the time in different circles you know oh really i'll do it when i was getting my master's in teaching and everyone you know demographic is like uh you know leftist liberal woman in their 30s i like stick out like a sore thumb right oh because you're the only guy there in the class in that program yeah yeah i see yeah yeah it's then it's a little hard to make friends yeah i made friends in that program but you know some places i don't make friends like gym like when i go lift weights i'm there to lift weights

and you know although there's people who i'm like hey how are you you know guy came up to me and started a conversation with me the other day like bench wise and that's how you know when you're getting big when dudes hit you up women don't talk to you women avoid you when you start getting to a certain size about 230 right now women avoid you at the gym they don't even they're like oh but the dude's like hey man like how many days a week do you work out do you can you spot me bro yeah like i'm here four days a week five days a week he's like yeah i see you all the time man i'm like i was like i was like where is this going you want to grab drinks after yeah i make i make killer protein shakes yeah man yeah that's funny yeah so it's like in the judo too it's like you want to be friendly yeah you want to be open to the possibility of and a lot of the times i see if you're trying to make friends it's

like hey you go to the subway yeah or you time the leaving together you don't want to be stalkerish obviously you know but it's like oh you're walking the subway like i'll walk with you right i think that's uptown or downtown and then yeah you get you just strike up a conversation on that way yeah it does get clicky right like we used to take the subway from 103rd to 70 79 yeah yeah depending on the thing and then like somebody new comes in like hey can i join and you're like oh i want to talk to peter about whatever it is but i don't know if i can openly freely talk with this person because you don't really know their opinions or we'll slide into your office in the back it does get a little bit clicky

which is kind of you know I do want to curb that a little bit but I think in any organization any sort of society it's natural to you know when you're part of a tribe to develop your own sort of well yeah I mean you can have your own clique but it doesn't

you know you just you can't be like a prickish about it I guess like you can't be like oh you can't sit with us kind of mean girl mean boy you don't want people like that at all I'll tell you this though judo really is the perfect place to sort of develop friendships because when you partner with someone

your arm's length away where you can reach out and grab it's like how often do you reach out and grab somebody there's no ill intent in the beginning when you're drilling because it's cooperative right right and then you feel the person's tension you feel the person's movement and then you're connected you really are connected you know so it's a very weird intimate thing and i think about this all the time you know and now that i don't engage with beginners so much the moments i do it's like sensei can you show me something i'm like all right and then we bow about this all the time you know and now that i don't engage with beginners so much uh-huh the

moments i do it's like sensei can you show me something i'm like all right and then we bow and then we link up and we eyes lock like that you know it's super intimate it's like a little bit almost weird and you got to have the skills to kind of make it unweird i i also like that because you don't know like everyone's wearing the same uh gi and then you don't know, like everyone's wearing the same gi and then you don't know what they do outside of the dojo necessarily. Everyone's kind of equal except for the belt collar, I guess. Yeah, the belt collar makes it a weird thing too. The hierarchy.

Yeah. But we talked about this, but you know, it's not yeah sensei syndrome you don't that's i guess another thing you want to look out for as a big guy yeah feel the vibe dude does the sensei have this sensei syndrome yeah yeah you don't want an arrogant prick leading the class and right yeah just be open to it learn uh-huh fit in be friendly make friends and if you are coachable if you are likable yeah the people who are at the top are naturally gonna want to teach you i'll tell you this man when i started ballet i did ballet for like two years you know this yeah yeah yeah that was the thing you know get in with the teachers right right and i we hung out with the teacher a lot yeah oh man i was like

super popular in that program you know and really, really accelerated my growth in the sport. Yeah. I mean, it's not really a sport, but it's like I went for flexibility purposes. And I went for mobility purposes. Yoga is super boring for me. I hate yoga. Yeah. Like I don't enjoy it.

It's boring. I was like, all right, what's the next best thing? You know, and I was walking by this dance studio. Yeah. And I was like, you know, that looks pretty cool. You? And I was walking by this dance studio. And I was like, that looks pretty cool. There's a lot of hot girls in there and stuff. I'll work on my mobility and hang out. It can't be that weird, right? And then I think to it all the time.

So I walked in. I took a beginner class. And then obviously, I stick out like a sore thumb. And then I'm just chit-chatting with the people near me. Hey, have you done this before? No, it's my very first time. Do you do a sport? I was like,

fuck you think. Do you do a sport? No, yeah, I do a little judo, you know, grappling stuff. You know, and then I'm consistent. I'm consistently going.

Right. I see the same faces. Yeah. You know, and some girls are like, hey, you're – right? Your pirouette is looking good. And you go, oh, yeah. Oh, thanks.

You know, I noticed you went for a double today. That's cute. A little friendly banter and now all of a sudden, you know, you're kind of in it. Right. So, yeah, you did have that experience, that beginner experience. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So being consistent, seeing the same faces and having little soft touches and interactions here and there. And then eventually the teacher takes interest in you too. It's like, what do you know?

And they give you more feedback, more feedback, you chit chat with them about stuff. And now all of a sudden, you have a group of friends. And once you have friends, you want to go more. You want to go more. I was very friendly with this dude. He was on Broadway. He was a dancer for Broadway. He was a Broadway show guy. He passed away, but he was really cool.

Oh, really? He passed away? He died. Casey died. Yeah, geez. I didn't know that. I know. He was cool, so I became really good Yeah. Geez. I didn't know that. I know. Yeah. But yeah, no, he was cool. So I became like really good friends with him and he was like a pro. You know, he's doing five pirouettes, whatever, six.

Yeah. And then it's like when you have his social stamp of approval. Everyone wants to be friends with you. Everybody wants to be friends with you. Right? All the girls want to be friends with you. Because you're like, oh, if he thinks he's cool. Yeah. Now you're like oh if he thinks he's cool yeah now you're in yeah it's like oh how do you guys how do you know casey how are you friends with casey you know are you gay too and i'm like no i'm not gay right it's like because

you know there's a lot of gay guys and yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't want to say too controversial here but like you get in with the people who are sort of you know similarly at the top right and all of a sudden

now there's social proof right and now you become part of this I mean now

it's a lot easier to go and now if you don't go people will text you like hey Shintaro where are you why aren't you

right they make it difficult to quit because the people who you are around sort of depend on you to be in the room and hang out. Of course, ballet is a little bit more of an independent thing then. Yeah. But it kind of isn't because you're kind of all doing the same movements. Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So I went through it with once a ballet. I went through it with jujitsu. Oh, right. I started jujitsu sort of on a part-time basis. I've been through it in many different worlds

like getting an MBA, sitting in the class and then what do you guys do? It's like lawyer, doctor, finance. What about you, Shintaro? I teach judo for a living. It's a little bit of a different starting point but seeing these people on a daily basis and making friends, it's really no different in the dojo.

If you have friends at the gym, it's a lot easier to get better right it's so at the end of the day the conclusion is that it is you know it is just like any other social group you know you it's just people doing judo so you go in be friendly be socially mindful, and you make friends. I think that's what it is. Because we're not trying to be professional, you need to be in that social circle so that everyone's kind of accountable for each other, make sure you show up. Because it'll get tough.

You get dinged up a little there and then you're gonna sit on the couch watch netflix yeah peter hits you up shintaro hits you up and yeah yeah like oh okay i'll go for them not easier and you have someone to speak the language with yeah oh yeah that's it hey you know because it's a very very small community of people that speak that language right you have this ability and now all of a sudden it's like hey right first right position yeah guy fakes till the night goes coach he cuts drags person down front headlock position looking for the guillotine snap down and go behind throw your hooks in seatbelt grip right fall to the top side arm you know trap the other arm and then you know you're looking for the rear naked that puts his back on the floor now you're climbing on top

and now you're in kamishigatame position without the shogatame position and like that means nothing to most people right but you guys can picture it yeah yeah you guys can picture you guys can visualize it i'm painting a picture for you with words that literally means nothing to 99 of the people out there right so you share this language it's like me sharing japanese with Yumi. Even though Japanese has very little utility in my life because there's not a lot of Japanese people near me, nor do I interact with Japanese people on a daily basis,

it's my language with my child. That's what makes it special. Same thing with Judo. It's my language with Peter. And we share this thing. We can talk about it. We have nothing else to talk about. We're just like

how about that yeah that's right yeah so yeah so you know I think social side of things especially for beginners is very important so you know be sociable and all that

here's one wrestling background jujitsu blue belt, 6'2", 210 pounds. Oh, I'm scared already. You're visualizing it, right?

Yeah, yeah. No bottom game, only top game, super aggressive. Yeah. You're visualizing that guy. Yeah,

yeah, yeah. But he's super friendly. Yeah. He might have gnarly cauliflower ears, but very friendly. Yeah, cauliflower ear, but actually pretty humble.

Likeable guy, right? Part of the crew now. Yeah. Visualize, you see that guy? Yeah, I'll be friends with him in an instant. Yeah. What does he do for work? Actually, he's a programmer.

Oh, my God. So now, like, you know, those statements mean nothing to the majority of the people. Yeah. For us, right? That's right. i see that guy now yeah me too in my head too we could talk about his game you know yeah how's his double what kind of wrestling does he do does he chain wrestle right did he wrestle d1 d3 d2 what school was it how far did we get right yeah does he do ankle pick don't blast double whatever what does he do yeah yeah cool yeah so um don't be scared you know it's all people at the end of the day and um just find the right gym and try to integrate with the dojo um yeah anything else no man that's just really the basics uh you know go home study judo on your own watch youtube videos mostly mine yeah you know that stuff helps listen to podcasts

mostly podcasts you know buy into the community yeah find people who are like-minded seek out mentorships right now you can seek out mentorships online yeah communicate with people these champions in judo are accessible yeah well you know some of them are actually maybe they're not accessible but you have much better chance reaching out and connecting with a judo champion national champion than like lebron james yeah exactly i mean because the smaller community like world champions have their own instagram account and they they put stuff on their own stuff yeah they put stuff on their own there's current competitors you know they're putting up technique follow stuff on instagram and you know the more you are more that's visible

to you right in those little worlds the more likely you'll be you'll stay in and stay in it yeah yeah that's right longevity in the sport is the key and do it as safe as possible because injuries is what will take you out of the thing right that's right

right so yeah that's it alright I hope you guys if you're on the fence hope you guys I hope this conversation has helped you

get over that fence yep starting Judah yeah alright thanks for listening and stay tuned for the next episode