The Shintaro Higashi Show - Stories from Judo Training Days

Episode Date: February 15, 2021

Shintaro has been training in Judo his whole life, all over the world. Some of the places he's trained are NYC, Japan and Massachusetts. He has so many interesting stories from his Judo training days, from his experience as a high schooler in Japan to training with Olympic champions like Kayla Harris and Travis Stevens in Massachusetts, and he shares some of them with Peter in this episode. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

hey guys what's going on welcome back to the shintaro higashi show with peter yu today we're going to talk some stories from the judo training days that's right so as you guys know shintaro's been doing judo all his whole life and he's been training in a lot of different places you know his home dojo kbi in new york city to japan even to jimmy pedro's in massachusetts so he has a lot of stories to tell us. So why don't we just start from the beginning, where it all started, KBI. How was that like?

Yeah, it was great. Growing up, Upper West Side had kind of a gritty feel and just grew up doing judo with my father. And it was kind of a tricky thing. And the father-son student-teacher combo is kind of a tricky one right you have to really be compartmentalized and say okay at the dojo i am this at home i'm that and you know i i struggled with that for a very long time right it's like because yeah we know we're messing

around at home joking and wrestling and that's so fun in games and then all of a sudden now we go to the dojo and now i'm expected to be a certain way right so it was kind of tricky but you know we sort of made it work so he was more strict he was stricter at the dojo than he was at home or something like that definitely definitely but you know he wasn't too strict like uh up until I was about 13 or 14 years old he never really made me do hard training at all right I just had I was just expected to be there I had to go there and there's a lot of cool people and you know you know dojo environment right it's a lot of culture building and having a nice friendly environment to be in and so you know it was great so right now it's right part of the adult program from uh from a very young age so that was a very special experience

for me so why why didn't you uh you know start with the kids program or anything like that? We had a kids program, but it wasn't a very big kids program. So what would happen is he would overlap the kids program that was at like 4 o'clock or something like that or 4.30. And then the adults would come at 5. They would come early for their program and they would just help the kids program. And then they would stick around and the kids go home. Right. So there's like a 30,

40 minute overlap. So there weren't too many kids to begin with. Right. So it was like kind of this thing of like, okay, warmups, drill, break falls,

all this stuff. And by the time we were getting ready to do rounds, adults were rolling in and then be like, Hey, you get on the mat, you get on the mat. And then they would run like, ah,

and they would play with us and stuff like this. And then, you know, judo would end. And then Japanese jiu-jitsu would happen after that. Karate and then Aikido to kind of top it off like a cool down for the night. And that was the thing we did on Friday nights. We had all four martial arts. So the kids program, judo, jiu-jitsu, karate, and Aikido. It was like a five-session thing.

And if you were able to do the whole thing, then it was kind of like a badge honor. Like, oh, man, I stayed the entire friday night you could start your weekend right right it's kind of a thing you know you did that all often just all yeah i did it all the time like every friday my you know i'll go to school and then my mom will pick me up and then you know drive me to the dojo or my dad would pick me up and we would go to the dojo together you know we get a slice of pizza right and then i just hang out and you know. And, you know, during that time period, sometimes I would do – I was told to do homework, but I wouldn't always do it, you know? I'm kind of just like messing around, running around, playing on the mats

until the other kids came in. And a great way to grow up, you know? I just loved being there. I just associated that place with just fun and games. Right. It wasn't always just fun and games because, you know, there were tons of times when, you times when a guy grabbed me and said, hey, let me try this move on you.

And I remember I was like 13 or 12 and then this guy did like a wrestling move and I was like on my neck and I got hurt. Things like that always sort of happened, right? Lots of different – it was a different time too. So how was it like – so you mostly trained with adults? Yeah, mostly adults. Yeah, mostly adults. Yeah, always adults. So do you think it helped you with your development of judo?

Yeah, I wish I trained, you know, somewhat like if I had... Actually, it worked out pretty perfectly, right? Because I developed a love for it. And then, yes, you could argue like the pedagogical aspects of it and how you teach and how you learn and different motivators of each and every athlete and you know i have my ways right um but truthfully i just loved it so i went and just kept going and

then it just got get getting better and better so i really wouldn't change anything right but if i were doing it for my daughter i'd probably you know a lot of other things. And now at KBI, you had a big kids program. And hopefully after the pandemic is over, it's going to come back. Hope so. Yeah. Hope so. With the kids, I hold them up by the collar so they don't smash each other. That's hugely important.

I know dojos that are like, let two kids just scrap it out and just slam each other. That's too dangerous. So I'll never let them do that. And then even fighting adults too. It's like, you're not really fighting adults. Adults are taking it easy on you. Right. You know?

So the smart kids are always like, I know you're just taking falls from me. Like, I know I'm not really slamming you. Right. I'm not saying that kids that don't realize that are dumb. I'm not saying that. But like, there's a limit. Kids notice things. Yeah.

Yeah. Kids notice. Kids know. Most kids know. Like, this adult. Kids know. Most kids know. Like this adult is an adult and he's letting me throw them, right? And then when you get into a competition and you have another 10-year-old trying to take your head off, it's completely unlike the thing that you're doing in training. So there are limits to that. But for me, I grew into my body pretty quickly.

Like I was a big kid already at like 10, 11, 12 years old. And by the time i was like 12 years old i was already 5 8 oh i'm going with adults you know scrapping i wasn't a strong 12 year old right i was a chubby 12 year old but i was already 5 7 5 8 so it's a different kind of you know you so so it worked out because you're you enough to go with the adults pretty quickly. Yeah, so I was young. So even like 13, 14 years old, I was a big person, right? Right.

You know, 5'8", 5'9", like 210 pounds. And I'm Sensei's son, right? And, you know, Asians, you can't really tell how old they are anyway. So, you know, you would go with these guys. These guys would go hard, you know, especially sort of, you know, my father's students father's students and you know i've had guys going for tomonage and kick my knee out to go for an armbar and it's like right it's like he's freaking 13 he can't you know do that you know and but you did you competed around this time too right again yeah i was competing yeah i was full-blown competing and then i fought in the adult promotional tournament when i was 12 which is kind of nuts can't do that now yeah that was awesome but i guess scary it was scared you

were yeah i'm sure you were scared but in a way you were ready to do it because that's what you were doing most of the days anyway i wasn't really ready man because he kind of gave me the option to like hey do you want to do it and i was kind of like nah i can't you know and i would go and watch and root the other guys and i was kind of like a cheerleader i loved going right i love going this thing it was my dream to compete in it and winning it you know the promotional tournament for rank right so my dad you know one day he's like you want to compete i'm like ah you know i i do but i'm scared and all this stuff and he goes let's just bring your gi right i'm like what for he's like yeah you'll help out warm up all the guys i'm like all right i? He's like, yeah, you'll help out, warm up all the guys. I'm like, all right, I love that.

And I put my gi on, you know, and then I get there and I'm warming up everyone. He's like, I signed you up. And I'm like, ha, ha. And then I was like, are you serious? He's like, yeah. But, you know, he knew everybody. Everyone knows each other in New York, New Jersey. So, you know, I'm sure that they weren't picking me and putting me in some random.

that they weren't picking me and putting me in some with some random you know i'm sure there was some coaches talking to coaches and say hey which one of your guys in this you know sank you or the low-level brown belt division uh which one of these guys is not gonna he's not they're not a killer right we're not trying to match my 12 year old kid in with a killer so i'm sure some strings were pulled to where it's like there is some nepotism there, obviously. They just know each other. You know everybody. And it's like, hey, this is that kid's son. He's 12.

He's 12. He's 12 years old. Right. Right. Right. And then I went up with a guy who was like 20-something years old. But he was new. He was a new guy. Fresh brown belt.

Yeah. Fresh brown belt and probably not, I don't want to say he's not good. So you did that. How did that go? belt yeah fresh brown belt and not you know probably not i don't know he's not good you know but so you did how did that go it was a draw because you could only draw ah right right by upon lose by upon at the time uh so i fought him to a draw and then when i was 13 i went back because i was fired up i was like i can do this i can do right right i got thrown on my head and i hurt my neck oh my god yeah see that could have ended my judo career right there right because i got that's it i don't want to do it anymore yeah you could have gotten very discouraged and yeah very discouraged but you know just association of going

to the dojo so deeply embedded it's like friday i get picked up we get pizza i do the thing you know and i do five classes and then on saturday morning you know it's like i have to go to japanese school yeah but i did it and then you know it's like i knocked those two days out friday and saturday and then it's like all right maybe i get some ice cream right like so it's like a good day it's like i'm not gonna right it's such a huge part of me at this point right love going to the dojo love the guys i'm not gonna just leave then right right but it was gritty because the people that were at the dojo during that time period it's very different from upper west side as we know it now right now it's more family like now there's a lot of family affluent yeah upper west side you know upper middle class upper class that kind of a crowd

and you know in the 90s the upper Upper West Side wasn't the Upper West Side. Right. So you would have guys coming in, you know, that were, you know, a little bit thuggish, you know, people who did drugs and people from all sorts of different backgrounds, right? And it was gritty. It was really, really gritty. And the way my father ran practice was like, all right, judo, warm up, drill.

All right, randori, go. Take each other down. A lot of them must have been there for practical reasons to defend themselves. Yeah, a lot of police officers and stuff like that. And then we didn't even have a clock. You know how now it's like, oh, put four rounds on the clock and ding. The guy has a stopwatch. My dad's like, all right, grab a partner and start throwing each other.

Go. And then there would be no time. And then he would just be walking around. And sometimes he had a stopwatch, but he wouldn't even. He'd start the clock and put it on the table. And then it would just be gone. And then forget about it. Yeah.

And sometimes like we're doing Rondori like seven, eight minutes in. He's like, dude, how long have you been working out? Like, is he going to change partners? Or, you know, that was kind of a normal thing. Even if he walked in as a white belt, it's like, hey, guys, you know, I'm here to start training. My dad's like, all right, this is how you do a fall. This is how you do this move. Oh, my God.

Right into the wolf pack. Yeah. And then these big, strong people would hurt him. They would get hurt. They would get slammed. And then they'd be like, ah, that guy doesn't belong on the mats with us and doing judo. Go do something else. Right.

It was kind of like that kind of an environment a little bit, too. And then, yeah, it was very Right. It was kind of like that kind of an environment a little bit too. And then, uh, yeah. And it was very scary. There was no technique band, you know, people would be snapping their legs and,

you know, with Tanya Toshi and stuff like that. It was very scary, very scary, but you know, it was great. It was great because my father can, right.

Lay down the Lord, like that too dangerous. You're going too roughly. He could, right. Control control everyone. Yeah. It wasn't like a absolute free-for-all right because he would be there uh but you know the dojo is a long sort of a rectangular thing and it was kind of a thing like you stay at the end of the mat and then sensei was over here and you kind of do whatever you

want at this end of the mat and it was a thing that people kind of knew you know good they were watching well that's interesting good times yeah times so you're about and so i know you you know you went to japan and trained at uh high school and on that so when how did that happen it was uh because you were you were just like a homegrown guy at this point yeah homegrown guy i didn't really travel outside of the dojo i was just training at my home dojo you know three times a week and when i was in high school was wrestling so you know i was wrestling uh you know after school for my high school and then so monday through friday would be like wrestling at school during the season tuesday thursdays i would take the train in and wrestle at the new york athletic club right so a lot of the times like wrestle and

finish practice take the train in and then go in and wrestle. And then on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays, my mom would pick me up from wrestling practice and she would take me to judo. Straight away? Yeah. Five days a week. It's like during the wrestling season, it was like every single day, you're in school

nine to three. That's a lot. I'm wrestling and doing judo from 4 p.m to like you know 8 p.m or 9 p.m so i put together that schedule was really nice you know and i was getting pretty good and i won high school nationals and stuff you know and then my dad's like all right let's take it to the next level let's send you to japan to kakushikan high school right so i went over there and boy that was a uh rude awakening that was like how old were you when you went i was like probably 15 or 16 i went like two summers in a row when i was in high school

and uh it was it was an amazing experience it was just like the volume of judo that they did the quality of judo that they had it just didn't compare to anything that i was pretty confident going in right right and then i went with this guy, Katabuchi. And he freaking slammed me with a harai so hard, my leg cramped up, and I couldn't walk for like two minutes. Oh, wow. It was the first round.

Yeah, and then even the coaches like, because you know my father has an affiliation. Right, right. It's his alma mater. So, you know, I come in with sort of this pedigree, right? This connection to the university. And it's like oh sensei you know higashi shintaro's father was a alumni at kukushikan high school and not high school but kukushikan university right so he's like royalty and uh you know the head coach at the

time people are kids were like going after you a little bit yeah but i was also protected right oh okay okay right because it could have easily been like because sometimes you a little bit yeah but i was also protected right oh okay okay right because it could have easily been like because sometimes you get an outsider coming in and they're like go get him right right right right it's a free-for-all right like it's just they don't really care for them and they're just another body in the room and it's like a good chance for the the home guys right to go work their best stuff on so But I was a little bit protected. But I came in with like, his father is this guy, university alumni.

And the principal at the time was my father's kohai, right? They were on the same team together when my father was coach. Kohai as in, for those who don't know, it's like an underclassman that went together.

Yeah. So I think my dad was the coach at the university and this guy was like a sophomore and he became the president of the school, right? Not the president, the principal. Principal of the high school, yeah. Yeah, and he had a huge say in the judo program

and he was in the room all the time, right? So it's like, you know, I had that coming in and he's like, also, he's a national champion for the United States. Oh, man. So immediately everyone's like, oh, this guy's going to be good, right? Right. And then they're like, you know, I had that coming in and he's like, also, he's a national champion for the United States. Oh, man. So immediately everyone's like, oh, this guy's going to be good. Right. And then they're like, you know, his name is Katabuchi.

His name is Shinya. I'm like, Shinya, come over here. Go work out with this guy. Yeah. And then he freaking just slammed me first exchange. All right. Like head first. Oh, man.

Yeah, it was brutal. You know, now all of a sudden I'm in that training regimen of like getting up at five every day. It's like 530. You have to train at six o'clock in the morning. It's like a 6 to 7.30 a.m. It's a morning workout. A lot of the times it's like sprints, high intensity interval training, and then some drilling. That's the morning practice.

And then these kids go to school. They're in these special classes called sports classes, right? Where they're not required to meet the same academic standards. And they kind of like i don't want to say snooze through it but like their main focus it's not their main focus and the teachers understand and it's generally the soccer team baseball team judo team oh they had other teams too it's not just judo school not just your team yeah and kendo team so those are the four yeah so you take all the guys on those teams and put them in a classroom oh my god yeah it's mayhem right and then you know school ends and 3 30 rolls around now you have three hours of training and then you have an hour

of lifting weights and things like this and then a little bit of drilling afterwards now it's 7 p.m 7 30 p.m you have to rush back to the dorms to eat dinner because all the meals were provided at the dorms oh okay right and then you have to make roll call at nine because you had curfew right right so monday through friday you're booked to the gills so so you your dad didn't stay with you he just dropped you off in japan yeah he dropped me off at the dorm. Oh, at the dorm. And then he was like, okay, bye. I'm going back home. He literally walked into the Kukushikan high school practice, waved at everyone, waved

at everyone. People came and bowed to him, said hi, and gave their peace. My dad's like, all right. My God. So yeah. How was that like? I mean, you speak fluent Japanese, so I'm sure there was no language barrier. And they were very surprised.

A lot of them didn't even believe that I was American. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I was like, no, I'm really from America. You don't sound like you're from America. You don't look like you're from America. Yeah. But so, I lived in the dorms.

So he just dropped you off. You unpacked and settled in at the dorm and you also went to classes yeah yeah so there was uh they do school throughout june and july right a lot of them right and then late july like they go into summer break so i took the regular school class like i was in like the regular school my father's like i don't want him in that sports class put him in the real school and maybe he'll you know learn what that japanese academic system is about right right right and i didn't really fit in there i was doing terribly you know because my reading and writing skills are are good but right like of like a high school academic level where it's like these kids are trying to get into college

right they're studying they're reading and writing and doing all the thing i wasn't ready for that i was good at math uh-huh yeah right but then like i would do these like kanji character tests and written tests and i would get like 14 or 17 out of 100 and these kids would be like ha ha ha you know so that was a little bit uncomfortable but oh they were nice to you those uh those they were nice to me but they were a little bit of poking fun at me it's like how do you not know this character i'm like i live in america like i don't yeah yeah well then so all the all your training buddies the judo buddies are in a different class yeah so did you make some friends on the like non-judo friends the academic kids did you make i did i was like friends with them for a little while but i didn't really keep in

touch we didn't have instagram or facebook back in the day right right right i lost touch with all of them essentially i stayed in touch with some of the judo guys if they want to come to the united states and hang out they always right right right about time i'll like do everything i can to of course show them around and stuff yeah you know but it was a it was a tough life right because you have the dorms and then you have the meals provided breakfast lunch and dinner and you have to eat at that right and it's a designed menu for the athletes. So it's like morning breakfast. Like after training, you have to go eat breakfast. And you go to school.

Then you come back there for lunch. And you have the lunch with your team, right? And then you go. And then, you know, like you literally have 40 minutes to scarf dinner down in order to shower and then hit the curfew. My God. You're standing outside in the hallway. And you're counting off your number. If you're not there, man, you're going to get get a beating oh oh so then they're very strict back then too

right they're strict back then yeah they you know in a way who's like a champ for those of you don't know like he really changed the landscape of judo in japan right came in he's like all this stuff with the punishment it can't be done positive reinforcement is the best method we have to nurture our athletes the way we nurture human beings and he changed the game right all the hazing stuff it's got all the hazing stuff forget that that's nonsense it's garbage it's a new time it's a new era right we have to change the way we think we can't do things the way we've been doing right so he and you know he had a lot of say because he was a legend. He won medals and he was a world champ.

But this whole thing predates him. Right. He was around. He was competing, but he wasn't in that position. So they were still going through the beat the kids with a stick kind of a judo teaching method. Right. But it did foster some sort of camaraderie between the team. When a coach walks in, you're like, holy shit. You're looking at each other.

You're all looking at each other like, who's going to take a beating now? Oh, my God. And then when you do, it sucks, right? But you live in it with everybody else. The next time, it's going to be someone else. It's like a shared pain. It's like a shared trauma, I guess. Yeah, a shared trauma. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, it's pretty a shared pain. It's like a shared trauma, I guess. Yeah, it's a shared trauma.

Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, it's pretty cool, though. It was a great experience, I think. You know, not getting beaten. I never got beaten, but there was a guy, there was a kid there that got choked unconscious. Choked out at a tournament, right? So he got choked at a competition. He was new on the middle school team and he tapped.

He, like, gave up. competition he was new on the middle school team and he tapped he like gave up and you're not really expected to tap from chokes and at that level at the high school and collegiate level wait wait what do you mean you just gotta you just rather you're taught to fight to the very end oh as opposed to fighting an armbar it's like your arm will get broken so right you know okay okay yeah because you know you can't train and if you can't train, you affect the team. And if you affect the team, like, you know, like, oh, you got armbar. Okay, you tap. Right?

But if you're getting choked, you're supposed to fight to the very end. That was, like, one of the things that they, like, instilled on these kids. Oh, gosh. And this kid fought in a competition. He missed a throw. He's getting choked. And he's like, ah. And then he starts tapping the thing.

And then the coach is like, oh, you know, that's not how we do it here. We'll see you in practice on Monday. Oh, my God. And he didn't even, like, grill him at the competition, right? And everyone's kind of, like, scared and everyone's kind of worried. We're, like, waiting around practice, like, what coach is going to do? What is coach going to do? And they usually have, like, a coach that just finished college.

Right, right, right, right. A coach that works out with all the kids, right? So there's different tiers of coaches. Right, guy walks in everyone's like holy what's gonna happen now this guy just chases this kid down chokes him out wakes him up chokes him unconscious wakes him up chokes him unconscious wakes him up like it was the most savage thing i've ever seen while everyone's watching while the kids yeah yeah while everyone's watching and then you know like i'm terrified right i'm terrified but all the other people are like Yeah, while everyone's watching. And then, you know, I'm terrified, right? I'm terrified, but all the other people

are like, ah, it's just normal. Right. Business as usual. That must have been one of the big culture shocks to you. Huge cultural shock, you know,

because then you have this program that starts in middle school, right? So the elementary school kids fighting the elementary school championships are the best guys get recruited into the middle school program. So you're already getting the cream of the crop. There was a kid that they recruited, elementary school championships where the best guys get recruited into the middle school program. So you're already getting the cream of the crop.

There was a kid that they recruited, elementary school national champ. This kid was like 340. 340? Yeah, he was a 5'9". He was 12 years old. He won the sixth grade championships, and then he got recruited. And he was on the mat with us too. So there's kids like that.

So they recruit from the middle school level. was on the mat with us too right so like there's kids like that you know so they're really not from the middle school level like they uh recruit from all over the country all over the country right wow yeah and then they get taken out of their homes and they get live in these dorms uh and they go there full time yeah and there's grueling practices and whatnot grueling practice yeah so when i went in the summer like some of these kids are still new. They're like three months in. They're just kind of getting used to it, you know? Right, right, right.

And in the dorms, it's like this huge square like hallway, right? And there was like a middle school section, a high school section. And like everyone's kind of bundled together, right? You know, seniors are over here. The juniors are over there. And then so when I would go from one end of the dorm to the other end of the dorm to go to my friend's room, I would walk through the middle school side because I was in the guest area. Right, right, right.

And then in the seventh grade, eighth grade side, I would walk by it and I hear like kids crying in there. Oh, my God. Yeah. Of course. It was so savage. They must have missed home and everything. Yeah, man. Yeah.

And it was like such a normal part of the thing, though. You know, like the choking out stuff, choking on Gasha stuff. Like, it was normal. You know, it's not normal now. You can't do it anymore. Right. But it was so normal. Like, I remember one of the coaches was like, hey, Gasha, you ever choke anybody out?

I'm like, I had, right? But I'm like, yeah, I have. You know? And then they were like, okay, choke him out. Like, they just pointed at a 12-year-old, 13-year-old kid. For what? I don't know i can't maybe he talked back or maybe he was like late to practice or something oh my god yeah so he was like go choke him out and i'm like you know like i'm uncomfortable right but he's like

choke him out or i'll choke you out oh he said to me right uh-huh and then i was like and then i'm looking around to like for my peers that are like in my grade like is this guy serious right and the kids are like yeah it's serious go get him oh gosh right and then this kid looking at me like you're gonna do it and i'm like look at him and then he just gets up and starts running ah right and then everybody just starts dying in the room they just start laughing like like oh it begins and then all the seniors in the upper class were like ah we went through it too we went through it too right and then the coach is like you better start running too higashi because i'm gonna take you down and choke you out and i'm like 16 at the time i'm like i don't want to get

choked out right i was like you know i had that mentality like all right better him than me and i ran after him tackled him and choked him out oh my god i'm not proud of it you know, I had that mentality of like, all right, better him than me. And I ran after him, tackled him, and chucked him out. Oh my God. I'm not proud of it, you know, but I did it, you know. I mean,

what could you have done back then? You were a 16-year-old kid. I was super nice though. I was like, I apologize to him later. And then he's like, no,

it's okay. You know, and I gave him lunch or bought him lunch or you can buy snacks at the vending machines outside. Oh, that's nice.

I gave him some snacks and stuff. You know what I mean? So besides the culture, you know, i mean so besides the the the culture you know the practice itself itself how was the how was it and it's tough really tough man really tough you know you drill a couple hours and you do tons of mandori right right so if it starts at like 3 30 or 4 o'clock man these practices at least three hours long right and then there's lifting afterwards so you lift after judo yeah so you do like an hour of just drilling period lots of drilling teaching stuff drilling drilling drilling and then you got like almost two hours of just

straight live so at this point you guys are drill the kids are drilling a lot to just you know yeah clean up their high school yeah middle school they're drilling they do a lot to just, you know, clean up their techniques. High school, yeah, middle school, they're drilling. They do a lot of fundamental stuff. But then when you're in college, they don't do any teaching. They don't do any drilling. They just expect them to just go. This is a Kukushkan University. This is a university level.

Right, right, right. And I went there too for training. And that's a whole other story. Right, right, right. Yeah. They're really cool. They started with this drum. They had a huge drum and they would beat it before.

In college? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then it's like when that starts, it's like, man, you are anxious. You have a hard skipping. You have 150 guys in the room. And then sometimes the professional guys come, right?

Alumni who've become professional judo athletes. Right, right. They come. So you have like 20, 30 guys who are pros. Oh, God. Yeah. Then you have 80 guys from the kakushikan actual team and then sometimes they'll take you know the top 10 of the high school kids from the kakushikan high school and then they'll bring him and put him in there i see so it is mayhem in that and that's like it's just crazy it's crazy depth and a lot of the times like last time i was in japan you know when i visited kakushikan university the georgian national team was there

all of them okarashvili and all these big names they were all training becca givnashvili you know he's the name now he was on the mat training with us right and the japanese kids going after him he's a high school college kids go after him all these kids like that we would never know their names of yeah because they can't they just can't get out break out of the national circuit even they could all do well in an international circuit yeah but i remember we did a moto that's where you get red sashed uh so all right do, you know, 10 rounds of six minutes. Oh. That's a 60-minute Rundori set, right? Goodness, yeah.

And then sometimes they'll do, like, two of those, and then we'll do a Newaza, you know, five, whatever Newaza. And, you know, Newaza, they don't take it that seriously. Right. A lot of them. But so it's, like, two sets of that. And then the people who they want to get better, because there's too many people to do all Rundori at once,

they'll give them these red sashes. These little red belts, like little sashes around their waist. So to denote like they're staying on every round. They're doing all the sets. For the whole hour. For the whole set. Yeah, whatever they decide. Sometimes it's like I did last time.

What did I do? Seven minutes by like eight or something like that. I did seven by eight. I did seven by nine. Goodness. They gave me the red sash and it was like an honor, right? I didn't really want it. They gave it to me.

And then, man, that's brutal because it's like back to back to back. And then as soon as the bell goes off, dang, and the match ends, we have nine kids like coming out, hey, hey, hey, pick me, pick me. Because they want to get their rounds in, right? It's not like you could just, yes, you can pick each other and go, but the people with the red sash are the people who are supposed to get all those rounds. Right, right, right. So rounds are limited.

So you always get an occasional straggler at the very end, like pretending like, hey, pick me, pick me, but they're kind of hiding behind people. Right, right. They want to take a round off or something like that. But when you get the red sash, you can't. Right you can't right right right yeah it might like four rounds in five rounds in man you're so tired and me not being used to that kind of a training there's like these guys like picking me off up off the floor and then slamming me helping me back up

and then freaking slamming me and going through that really one of those one of the hardest things you know right and that like i remember like it was 10 rounds of six. I did that. And then I went to take off the sashes. I just couldn't do it. And then the coach was like, I had a stick. Like, if you don't you dare. You'll be disgracing your father.

You know? And I was like, all right, all right, fine. You know? And I'm in there. I'm gritting it out. And I thought I was going to have a heart attack. Oh, my gosh. It was exhausting.

It was probably the most grueling thing I've ever done. I see. And these kids do this on a daily basis, especially if you're one of the better ones. So did you guys have time to hang out at all, the high school kids? Not really, man, because every day, Monday through Friday is like this.

Saturday, you have a morning practice. know that's like it's like nine to noon or one it's a half day half day and then you have to have lunch and then now you know 3 p.m you're good right but you kind of expected to right right so you never got to like hang out much like oh no i mean sunday was your day off and people look forward to that but a lot of the times you have tournaments on the weekends which is kind of like the worst you know it's like all of a sudden now it's like at the end of the week you get to a tournament the best thing is like if you get to a tournament and then like you're kind of hurt or something and then you can't compete and you're just sitting there hanging out and there's like a you know crew that are doing that and they're all having a good time they're super happy and then the people who are competing are

just all serious and amped up kind of thing yeah amped up yeah some of them are you know some of them love it some of them hate it right right right a lot of them don't like it i think because they're stuck in it you you did compete too over the summer then yeah they did uh they put me in uh i wasn't even in high school i went for the tokyo grand slam uh and i competed so i did that and then i stayed for the grand slam camp and then i stayed in japan for actually a couple weeks just to train at the kakushikan right you know and then we went to the high school to like hang out and visit and train and they were doing a scrimmage like a practice tournament like an interclub tournament okay okay

they had about 300 students from different high schools some of the best high schools in that region uh all right they all had it and then instead of having one mat area they would have these like smaller mini mat areas and they had about probably like almost 20 little mini competition areas gosh and you would be on these like five man teams and five versus five and then you would be put on a team and then it's like this team versus that team you're a mat one oh it's a team tournament mat three yeah and then you're just getting pumping them in pumping them in people are getting like 10 you know 11 12 matches during that day wow you know and they put me on a

team i wasn't even in high school but they put me on one of the high school teams and then you know i look young and when you're in high school you have to have a shaved head right that's right so you know all the other kids from all the schools like why does that kid have hair right it's like that kid right and i'm actually wearing the back patch from the tokyo grand slam oh right so like there's all these rumors going around like why is that guy wearing usa in his backpatch right it's like and then people are telling him like he's a national champ in the united states and all this stuff and it was crazy yeah i choked the kid unconscious oh gosh well he did the right thing huh he didn't tap he didn't tap he came out gosh you know he looked at his coach and he was like, I fought to the very end.

Nothing I could do. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, it was tough, man. And those things really make you better. The craziest thing was that scrimmage at Inter Club was on a Saturday. And they ran through 300 students. They all fought like 10 times apiece. I only fought on like four matches, three or four matches.

And I was like, all right, coach, take me out. I'm tired. Yeah. You know, and he was cool with it. Right. Cause I didn't really actually belong there. Right. It wasn't until the other coaches start being like that kid just fought in the grand slam.

Like, what are you doing? Putting that kid in there. Right. Right. Right. Right. So they like took me out and it was cool after that. But that thing lasted three hours.

And then after that. That's efficiency right there. Efficient. Efficient. Pumping them out. Pumping them that. That's efficiency right there. Efficient, efficient. Pumping them out, pumping them out. Everyone knows where they need to be. They're not like fussing around calling names, you know. And then it's just one match after another. And then it ends noon.

Everybody leaves, right? And then coach is like, all right, guys, gather up. I like what I saw. This is what I like. This one needs to work on. This, that, this this that this that this guy did a good job that guy didn't do a good job and then we're all just counting out the time till he finishes so we could go eat lunch and just call it for the weekend right guys like all right get on the mat for practice yeah we had to practice oh my god because he wasn't satisfied with the way everyone fought. Oh, man.

It was like psychological warfare. And everyone's like, oh, man. Like, even the best guys were like, oh, my God. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Like, this is just atrocious. And then we had to, like, train for another two hours after that. Right.

It was brutal. It was brutal. I wanted to run away. Are you glad that you went, in yeah it's like you know you know i'm like by default like not like that like i'm not like uh right i have lots of interests as you know and i have uh you know i'm easily distracted and but to have that to where you're like you know it's a short-term experience for me right i don't have to live through it which probably would have caused me lots of mental harm right if i lived through that like i would have hated it right but you know it was a great experience

man i learned what it takes to be a champ i learned right what my father probably went through and i i learned a lot a lot of champs came out of that program you know suzuki ishii right a lot of heavy guys came to that program yeah yeah ishii was there after me oh i see like yeah i didn't go back to japan for the years that he was at kokushikan high school oh i never really crossed paths with him right but that's what the program does it pumps out people like that right and then interesting and then so after that so you did high school wrestling and whatnot and you also wrestled in college yeah very similar experience but you know i wrestled at the division three

level because it was in manhattan i wanted to be in manhattan to stay close to my father's dojo right right but the wrestling college collegiate experience is very similar right they would do these things of like all right we're warming up we're training and then if someone does something bad or the coach wants to punish him like all right stairs 10 sets of stairs you know and we would do these like crazy sets of on the stairs and we would sprint and we would wrestle and you know it was like that it was great loved it loved every second of it and it's it's i guess it's similar because you know in college you know you get recruited from all around the country. I mean, at the Division 3 level,

you are getting recruited, but it's not like there's scholarships to be had because Division 3 doesn't have scholarships. So you're sort of there on your own will. And you wore it like it was a badge of honor to be in that room because you're there voluntarily. And it's not like your scholarship

is tied to it. It's not like you have to be there for school you're there because you love it right right you're crazy enough to love it yep and we had a great group of guys wrestling i'm still very close to those guys to this day you know they'll eventually make an appearance on my youtube channel yeah it's gonna be hilarious but i can't i can't be held responsible for the things that they do or say so So I'm a little bit hesitant. So did you wrestle in college? And did you also practice judo and continue to go? I did.

I did. So that's what the best part of wrestling in college was about because it's like off-season, I would wrestle at the New York Athletic Cup Tuesdays and Thursdays. And then Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays, I would do judo at the dojo and then i would find time in the morning to lift right i was big into lifting right and then during the wrestling season we had train wrestling practice monday through friday and then sometimes i'd be like coach can i skip uh lifting today and then just go to judo oh that you know let you yeah yeah and he would let me do that so then i would

go wrestling and then i would go judo you know and then if i and sometimes he had meets or tournaments or whatever and i would miss a couple of judo practices to do that uh but if i missed a little too many my dad would get on me he's like come on man you know right and he made that fun too you know because like sometimes like i lived in the college wrestling dorms uh the dorms for college and then so it's like i would go up there to judo after wrestling and then my father would drive me back to the dorms for college. And then so it was like I would go up there to judo after wrestling. And then my father would drive me back to the dorms. But on the way back, we would stop by Subway Sandwich and get like a sandwich. Oh, nice.

Yeah. So it's like and then he didn't give me that much money. So it's like I was kind of like hungry. We didn't have like dorm meal plans or anything like that. We're in Manhattan. So like, all right right i get like three subway sandwiches today that last me a couple days if i uh you know go to judo and he drives me home and then i get the bullshit with him right so that was great you know we did that for a little while

and you know after college i i kept training right and my best friend in college was trying to make a world team in wrestling he took fourth at the world team trials he was a national champ in wrestling so we lived together and he would wrestle and i would do judo and sometimes i would wrestle with him and sometimes he would do judo with me oh nice nice yeah terry terry oh i didn't know he terry also did judo with you yeah he would famously when i would choke him he would try to punch me yeah because he really really really didn't want to give up yeah it's like i never went with anybody that did that like if you were behind him and you put choke put in a rear naked choke he was going like this and trying to freaking punch you like mma yeah it's like dude it's judo you're not allowed to do that it's like same as wrestling

but you're choking me, bro. I'm like, yeah, that's part of what you can do. Yeah. So I'm always afraid to choke him because he might punch me. Because he really, really didn't want to give up. But that's the kind of person that he was, you know. I mean, that's what it takes. Some success in wrestling. Yeah.

He was a great wrestler. Yeah. So then, but your main thing was still Judo. So Judo, yeah, Judo. Yeah, it're still going. Yeah, and then I won nationals in 2007, and I kept going at it, and I was kind of on the world circuit, and I was kind of doing well, but not really.

I wasn't really breaking through at the international level because I was in the wrong weight class. Right, right, right. My frame is not big enough for me to be a 220 athlete. My frame is like i should be 81 or which is 178 pounds yeah but travis was in that division and at 198 there was probably like five or six great great judokas that are all competing for that slot in the united states right wasn't that mix gary st leisure aaron cohen all these guys are in the mix it was very stacked division

right like you know what forget i'm gonna go 100 to where the guy who ultimately went to the olympics over me i had a nice little record against him right i see so i stayed at that division but internationally i struggled because it's just uh it's just much bigger than right you know i'm five eight five nine uh you know so and then uh yeah i was like all right i gotta take my judo to the next level if I'm going to have success at the international level. So then I moved to Jimmy Pedro's Dojo. After college. Like at this time. Yeah, this is like I was already like an adult, you know, and I was just training.

Oh, yeah, training and working. Getting my master's degree. Oh, master's degree, right. I was waiting tables. Oh, wow. At Jekyll and Hyde. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I hope they're still open. No, they're way way long gone oh really halloween themed restaurant hey guys welcome to jekyll and hyde you're sitting in the grand saloon second floor is the library third floor is the lab don't forget to look around if you need to use a restroom it's right behind the library doors right there like you see the bookshelf you push it it's a door to the restroom so great that's a cool setup yeah that was so dumb uh and then so you're working on your master's but you got the master's degree but then did you finish it and then went up or no i took a little bit of a break oh to move up i had an interesting master's degree experience because i was telling all the teachers like hey i'm, I'm trying to make the Olympics in judo. You know, and I can't be, I'm not around.

You know, I'm here one month on. I'm here, I'm away for a month. I'm here for two weeks. I'm gone for two weeks. I'm training. And some professors are like, absolutely not. Right. And when they're like, absolutely not, I would have to drop that class.

Right, right. And I would beg. And I would beg and be like, come on, please. You know, like, I'm trying to do the right thing here and right right this is for america and then sometimes they'll be like no and then i would drop it and then some professors were like yeah as long as you do it man like you know good luck get out there right and then i was able to like you know not do it remotely but you know take some time off around yeah take some time off and work around it.

So I was kind of doing that. But by the time I was like, all right, I got to go to Jimmy's. I was like, all right. It was 2011. And then 2012 was around the corner. I was 43rd in the world or something like that. And I was like, all right, one last sprint to try to make this team. Because me and this kid Kyle were sort of neck and neck in the rankings, right? And we were going to all the tournaments. And, you would pick up a point here a win there a lot mostly losses

internationally but i would you know take a third here i took a third at like the world cup in brazil that takes if i think i took third right that was a huge high for me and then i was like all right i just want to be around the people who are succeeding and at the time it was kayla and travis and right right those guys yeah oh so you're you're already going around the international circuit but you just wanted to get an extra oomph in a way before yeah yeah yeah i was like might as well fully go for it for the last year so you stay there for how long did you stay there for? Almost a year, maybe. Almost a year.

I see. Right before the Olympics. Right before the Olympics. And then, you know, lived in the athlete house that they had over there. Oh, they have a house. Everyone's doing the same thing. Yeah. And everyone's doing the same thing, right?

Everyone is training towards it. So, you know, the conversations you have, you just live in it. Right? Kind of similar to how it was in Kokushikan, in a dorm. Yeah, I did a lot of that. Living in a house, living in a training center, living in dorms and just training full throttle. So all the athletes who are serious athletes at Jimmy's

would live in that house. Yeah, Travis wasn't living there at the time. Oh, okay. Neither was Kayla. I see. A lot Travis wasn't living there at the time. Oh, okay. Neither was Kayla. I see. But a lot of the athletes lived there. I see. Like eight or nine people.

How did the practice run? Did you guys have separate practice for athletes? Yeah, so we had morning practice at a big gym. Jimmy Pedro's father would run, and that was pretty brutal, right? And it was just the main athletes. So we would be there for a couple hours, and then he would the main athletes so it would be we would be there you know for a couple hours and then he would take us to the field and we would do sprints

monday through thursday was a very intense schedule right and then we were expected to go to the gym right and then do our own workout and then you know we had nighttime practice and he had a good crop of dojo guys too that weren't competitors but that just loved judo and that was there and those guys were competitive with us right right so i like work out with those guys i work out with travis i would always get like three or four rounds of travis a night you know and that was a good time and then uh yeah that's it i see so training and living it and travis was uh your main partner training partner in a way? Yeah, Travis, Bobby Lee. Those two were really the main.

And Colton would come up there, and I would train with Colton also. I would train with all of them. Kayla too? I would train with Kayla sometimes, yeah. Nice, nice. Yeah. And did they cook for you or anything like that? No, no, no. So you're just in the house, and you're on your own.

Right? But you cook with the guys and the you know girls and then sometimes you order pizza or like sometimes you go to get sushi and it's like a very very like fun sort of you know like you're just young athlete right you just do your goal is to train and make it right more like it's more like a college house anyway yeah it had a little bit of a college dorm feel to it definitely yeah you know as you watch movies you hang out you know what do you want to do this weekend kind of thing and it's like big jim's like you're going to this tournament on saturday and sunday and everyone's like ah right because sometimes like you don't want to go to the local tournaments because it's like why right you know but it's like you you expect it to be there for your teammates

because there are people competing in it right right so yeah we'll go we'll go right and then like you know some of us are like oh i gotta get matches in gotta get matches in some of us are like i don't really want to get hurt before the you know i'm gonna compete in you know internationally yeah mexico next week i don't want to get hurt so i'm just gonna go hang out and those are fun just sitting in the stands and right you know living that kind of a life just being like a judo guy judo person right how judo life was the practice like the style of practice different from how it was run in kokushikan or is it similar mostly yeah so jim ped Pedro had like a system, right? A little bit more of a systemized approach to Judo

where it's like, all right, grip fighting and Niwaza, grip fighting and Niwaza. Those are the two things that were key, key, key things for all their success, right? And of course, it was like a mental component to it

where he would make us, you know, he would talk us through these things during like these meditative exercises. There's a lot of different pieces, but the thing makes them special they're unbelievable at gripping gripping was great like you couldn't outgrip travis right you just can't all right right and then their nuwaza transitions were unbelievable so the practice i could even tell you it's like okay guys uchikomis you know two minutes boom boom boom combination boom all right grip fighting you go to the same drill punch sleeve punch sleeve punch sleeve okay lapel lapel boom take the hand off boom over the top sleeve

boom take the hand off and you repeat it repeat repeat okay next drill uh tomonage split the legs tomonage over on the pass tomonage over on the pass a lot of drilling it's like very same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Uh-huh. You know? All right. What's next? Like Tomonage, you know, split the legs over underpass. And now all of a sudden, person turns out, person turns in.

Right? And then Juju from the top. Like Juju from the top. Juju from the top. It's the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. Right? Because the goal is to teach them to win. Win matches.

That's what it's about. It's not like at my digits, Because the goal is to teach them to win, win matches. That's what it's about. It's not like at my district, it's like the goal is to have fun, learn grappling, like an overall grappling idea. It's not to, right? I don't try not to advocate for competition because it creates this tiered structure at the dojo, right? You have your first tier citizens of like,

oh, you're competitors and these guys are the ones that win. I don't want that at the dojo, at my dojo, dojo right there we're all there to compete and make an olympic team or succeed and win at judo like competition competition competition so that's the way you have to sort of train deliberate training right this is the scenario you're going to be in the scenario 15 times in a row so that you just it's automatic when it happens automated automatic that's what happened for travis right in the quarter uh semi-finals yeah yeah so he was fighting the russian guy and then he hasn't beaten them before and the guy's great throwing power has almost travis's number and i heard a story where jimmy said to him like hey maybe he'd go to his back sumi to monage right

pin him you know right and then travis going and going him and the guy goes to his back for a sumi gaeshi and then boom over on the pass pin right something like that i don't know if that's exactly the match we're talking about but yeah you know it's automated they're good at it yeah so most of the majority of his matches he won that way right using those transitions right outgrip the guy so japanese people had a very hard time fighting him because they would never get two hands on him right because that so yeah what do you what do you think about the two approaches like why do you think they have such different approaches to the training like in japan and pedros japan you could get away with it right because you're pulling immediately from the best

crop right kids who've done judo since they were little little kids you know five days a week for till they were you know sixth seventh grade and now they're already champions at the elementary school level right now you take these kids who are on that path already and now you're giving them the best coaching the best room the best training partners and now they have right six hours a day that they have with these kids over a very very long period of time how many american kids are going through that kind of a system and not in judo not in judo right yeah football yeah baseball yeah right so now all of a sudden jimmy peter who had a lot of success in his competition days has a solution has an idea has a

system that already works and he's like all right i'm specifically going to teach this to the kids who come here right who already have success at the american level and i'm going to teach them this and this is what they're going to do right so it's a little less relying on like put two hands on and just see what happens for many many many many many many many years it's a little bit of a different approach it was a more of a approach for winning right right for competition judo right so i think that's a little bit different you know still you think your style changed like what did you because you train it when you train in japan and your homejo, it was more that, like kind of laissez-faire method, right?

You just… I mean, they're deliberately teaching in Japan too. Okay. Right? But the emphasis is different. Right. This is like on throwing power, like throwing and throwing. Put two hands on and go.

Put two hands on and throw. And there's a lot of little adjustments and things like that. And every coach has a different way. Everybody has sort of a similar different style, right? And, you know, you could argue which method is this or that or whatever it is but i think the biggest thing that i got out of training the pedros is being in a room with travis and kayla right they're already doing well kayla's a two-time gold medalist and jimmy pedro is a bronze medalist and i'm in there and i'm like oh i could do it too right right right getting that belief right i'm in with

the team that is doing it you know i see and you know going through that university system you know you're putting yourself through the ringer right like really putting yourself through the ringer where you're taking a beating every day because you know i wasn't the best in the room i also wasn't the worst in the room but like mid-tier like you're tired and you're gonna take a beating right even people that don't have business beating you they'll beat you if you're exhausted right right so like living through that definitely made me better overall so you got you experienced you got the best of the both worlds eventually definitely definitely good yeah i mean it's very similar right there's a lot more similarities than there are differences right right i'm same mentality with same goal same

mentalities yeah same goals yeah right yeah then but in japan kind of going back there like you you've seen a lot of because there are so many talented players and then uh they don't all make it. Yeah. Right? So it's what happens to what do they do after? They become judo coaches. Okay. Yeah. I see.

I see. I see. They can still make a living or like who becomes professional then over there? I mean, if you're at the university

and you have a lot of success, then the professional teams, professional corporations university and you have a lot of success right then the professional teams professional corporations would hire you as a employee and oh they run a team now all of a sudden yeah they run a team like that right so you're fighting for toyota or you're fighting for you know senko or whatever it is and it's an import exporting business and it's tough because now all of a sudden when your career for judo as a professional judoka ends, it's like, okay, get to work. Right.

Work on this Excel spreadsheet or do this or do that. It's like, I've got no experience with any of this stuff. So then generally they quit and then go into like coaching or teaching. Well, they actually, you have to work as a, like it's like being a student athlete almost, employee athlete. You're not just there to do judo depends on the cut depends on the company oh okay really depends on the company like i have a

friend taichi he's awesome he worked for this company he was a professional judoka for many many probably like five or six years and then they had one practice a week together with the team on a wednesday that was it you had a wednesday and then you had to go in to the company the actual headquarters like wearing a suit and tie in the morning so it's like a morning oh you're going you're not really doing any work but you sit at a desk and hang out say hi make your rounds and then you do a training with the team and then rest of the time you train with your own university oh i see i see all right so training was totally on you and if you produce they'll keep you on and if you lost a lot of matches

then you're like eventually they're like all right we're gonna let you go i see and yeah so that was kind of cool to see that i see and it really depends you know like uh if you're a police officer it's a little bit different you know right, right, right. They have a judo team, and you're not expected to do all the things that all the other police officers do. And then some companies have a bonus structure. It's like if you win at this tournament, you get X amount of dollars. If you win at the All Japan's, you get this much money. So they're incentivized to compete and win. I see.

I see. Interesting. So it really depends. Yeah. see i see interesting so really depends yeah so now looking back from kbi to kush kush kang to jimmy pedros yeah all this experience so looking back would you would you do it again oh hell yeah yeah 100 i loved it you know it's a great experience do i want my daughter to go through that probably not uh i'm a little bit softer on that you know on that front right but it was a great experience and it really made me who I am.

And a lot of the stuff, the gritty stuff that taught me this is what I don't want to do in my own dojo too. Right. Right? Because the goal for me is not to produce champions at the dojo. I mean, yeah, there will be champions. Right? But the goal is to provide a very safe environment. Right?

For everyone. I want to build a culture culture the dojo for everyone and then if you love the judo right you will keep doing judo therefore you'll get good at judo and then those people who want to succeed in competition can succeed in competition because i'll personally help them and i think that's my biggest approach right if everybody who walked into the dojo who were trying to you know after working the nine to five grind and they have a busy day they have kids and family and this and that and i'm like all right we're gonna do 100 sprints and 100 drills and 100 throws and we're gonna do this and do randori and then you gotta come in five days a week who's

gonna stay for that right right people who would have been good will not just be like yeah forget this and not even continue right right so i've learned a lot throughout the course of these years and it added to my base knowledge of the technique and the technical side of things. Now, I've compiled my own little judo proprietary system, I guess. It's not something completely new. It's been done before, and I borrow from a lot of stuff. A lot of the messages that I had are also messages that I've received from great coaches. So definitely where I am,

how much joy I get out of teaching judo and coaching judo. I couldn't have done this, what I'm doing now at KBI, without this experience. And I like what I do, so 100% I would go do it again. But it's not for everyone, you're saying.

It's not for everyone. Well, going through Kukushikan University. Yeah, no, it's definitely not for everyone. You probably couldn't even do it again but it's not for everyone you're saying it's not for everyone well going through kushkhan university yeah no it's definitely not for everyone they you know you probably couldn't even do it you know if you wanted to because it's such a closed loop right closed right it's not easy to just walk in waltz in and be like hey i'm here you know i kind of know somebody that did it can i do it too they're gonna be like no maybe you'll get injured right right right but it's great it was a great experience man and i loved training and you know we missed out on some of the lifting and the other training aspects i got a great strength and conditioning coach you know martin rooney and i haven't really spoken about that today but eventually we'll get around to it yeah nice

wow well what a story so um that's about it for the for today's episode so any parting words for the listeners nope i'm glad you uh guys are listening thank you guys so much people have been reaching out to me on instagram telling me how much uh they enjoy it and people have me asking me questions about peter uh ask. I will tell you everything there is to know about Peter. Yeah. All right. Yeah, keep the messages coming. And thank you so much, everyone, for listening.

And thank you, Peter, for putting it all together. Yeah, of course. It's been fun. And stay tuned for the next episode, guys.