The Shintaro Higashi Show - Tai Otoshi

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

Tai Otoshi is one of those throws that many want to learn, but is deceptively difficult to master. What makes it so popular, yet so difficult to master? In this episode, Shintaro and Peter discuss Tai Otoshi: its basic mechanics, how to practice it and many more. Join our Discord server and start chatting with us and other grapplers by supporting us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with Peter Yu. Thank you. And a big shout out to Levon and Jason. That's right. Yeah. Thank you so much, guys, for the support. Yeah.

Our biggest sponsors, you know, you guys are the reason why we could do this. Yeah. So thank you again. Yep. And that's the reason why Peter's going to have a full head of hair very soon. That's right. Yeah. I can't wait.

I can't wait to see what it looks like, dude. Oh, it's, yeah, I'm very curious. They say six months, that's when you were. Really? Because for the first three months, it's going to start falling out, the transplant. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, to grow back again, so.

So did you lower your hairline towards your eyebrows a little bit more or no? They cleaned it up a little, yeah, a little bit. They just filled it in or did you lower the whole hairline towards your eyebrows a little bit more or no? They cleaned it up a little, yeah, a little bit. They just filled it in or did you lower the whole hairline? They usually basically lower the whole, yeah, fill it in and then lower it, yeah. Are you going to grow your hair long? I think so, yeah. Well, if you guys have any hairstyle recommendations, let me know because I could do more hairstyles.

You know, Sanjay is a hair guy. I know, yeah. I'm going to talk to him probably. Yeah, he's one of our guys. I just got a haircut myself. Yeah, it looks sharp. It looks sharp. But today we're going to talk about Taiyatoshi.

Yeah, no more hair, but Taiyatoshi. I mean, they're both related because I'm much more aerodynamic. My speed of tile has increased by like 0.7 seconds. Nice. Over 7%. Yeah. So definitely some relation there, but... It helps, huh?

Yeah. With the rotation. Yep. So you recently made a video about it. I watched it. And I think it's one of those throws that looks so cool. So cool. Because most of the time, you stay standing up.

It's one of the rare throws that even in competition, most people just stay standing after and it's very quick um yeah and there are many ways to do it and so yeah let's kind of what are the big some of the biggest pitfalls because i think it's uh it's deceptively hard this throw is deceptively hard and then timing and placement of the calf on the shin. Yeah. And sometimes you don't even need the calf on the shin. There's so many ways to do it. Yeah.

And that's one of my pet peeves. Like, that's not how you do it. That's not how you sense it. There's many ways to do the same technique. No, you have to pull forward. I've seen it pulled downward. I've seen it pulled sideways. You have to have two hands.

I've seen Koreans do it with one hand. Who was that main guy that did the one handed Korean Thai? Aside from you. Wonhee Lee. Lee Wonhee, yeah. He copied Peter Yu. Ah, ha ha ha. Yeah, he's gonna come and beat me up.

I actually copied him. No, no, no, no, no. He's copying you. So he, so actually, yeah, that's funny you mentioned that. Cause I have a video on your channel with that one-handed taiyatoshi. And then all the comments was like, I basically didn't turn. I think the comment was that I didn't turn enough and then I would wreck my knee or something. Yeah.

So it's very tricky. And taiyo is something you don't see people do when there's a huge weight difference. Yeah. is something you don't see people do when there's a huge weight difference. So even if you're like no 66 kilo guys who are really good at Taiyo going with a guy who's let's just say like 230 pounds or something, you won't do Taiyo because the leg is outstretched underneath your opponent

and then depending on how good you off balance, risk is very high. Blowing your knee out, blowing your ankle out, depending on how the weight falls where your weakest link is sometimes your hip yeah you know so i do cover that you know uh this by the way this is not like a paid instructional it's on my youtube channel yeah like in taiyatoshi higashi and it gives you a taste of what the 10 minute concise instructionals yeah i have for sale

are like right because the same guy edited it. It was supposed to be a paid video, but we were like, you know what? We'll just throw it up on there. I see, I see. We talked a little bit about placement of the legs for risk, right? Turning out, do we go contact? Things like this.

I think most of it happens during the setup. Yeah, I see. I think it's very important. Yeah. So good hand position, good off balance. Things like this. What are some of the things that people need to watch out for in the setup? In the setup, I think like the person coming forward.

Yeah. Stepping around and away from your opponent so their body has a place to go forward and over this leg. That's I think is key, right? Yeah. If you kind of stand too in front of them, they're going to run into your back. So you want to be standing to the side. And when you shoot that leg across, you want to drive your weight onto your own leg.

Yeah. That's a way to do it. Yeah. A way to do it. And then, you know, take into account different weight differences and such. And then just timing, man. Timing. I talk about right side versus right versus right side versus left.

You know? How to shift your opponent's weight onto that one leg and then bringing them forward so that the majority of their body weight is in front of them. Yeah. Right?

Not directly over your leg so they can drop their knee into your extended leg and your leg is down. Right. You know, we definitely don't want that, right? And yeah, that thing... Watch watch that video that point is very important because i'll say a lot of times people when they first try to practice taiyotoshi they their weight is on the opposite end

and yes and then what happens is your hip sticks out and then you end up blocking the locking your partner from going over your legs so yeah things like that those like little things you know a little thing yeah threading that foot right next to their foot you know sometimes it's too far out sometimes it's too far in yeah you know what i mean all these different things there's double tatoshi there's many different types of tatoshi how you gain tayo with uchimata and ochi. Yeah. Those kinds of things are very important. But the most important information that you could learn about tatoshi is this. Are you ready for this, guys?

What is it? Yeah. When you're doing it on social media, make sure your legs are planted. Because when you do taiyo and then boom, they land and you're still. Your legs don't move. Yeah. It makes it look 10 million times better. I mean, yeah, that's what I said in the beginning, right?

Like it's one of those throws that a lot of times you can stay standing. Stay standing, yeah. But this is the thing. When you hit them in the tile and then you take little mini steps and your feet move to like catch your balance, it makes you look a little bit amateurish. I see. So when you watch people do throws, So to catch your balance, it makes you look a little bit amateurish. I see.

So when you watch people do throws, when you throw them and then you dive over, that's fine. And people will criticize you. Oh, you just keep taking it back. But this is the thing. You're just trying not to land on your partner. You're working on executing it in a dynamic way where you're just kind of going forward with the motion. You can always land on your opponent's ribs and break it.

But we don't do that in training. It's dangerous. You don't want to hurt your partner. You need partners to train this stuff. But if you're doing it for the gram, bang, settle your feet. If your weight goes too far back and your toes come off the ground, that means your weight's shifting backwards. Right. It's incomplete.

Yeah. So you want to hit Taiyo with perfect line, heel-toe on the same line. Yeah. Toes dug into the ground, right? And then once they hit the floor, you're just standing above them. And then weight's distributed evenly. You have that nice little torque through your thoracic spine. Yeah.

You put them into the ground, your legs don't move, and you're standing above them. That's like… it's pretty dominating it's clean beautiful so if you want to put up a video of yourself doing Taiyo

make sure that your foot is planted like both feet like not moving and then you can do it many many times until you can just train

that last bit to make it like Instagram worthy. I'm telling you, it'll get tons of views. Ha, ha. Because people don't subconsciously pick it up. Yeah, yeah. But when you see someone do it,

it's not the actual speed of the throw because it's not that different. But seeing a guy who's so, so amateur, like hobbyist, shoots a blue ball doing it versus like a high level guy. I mean, the speed's a little bit different, but it's not, it's almost imperceptible,

right? Because it's such a quick throw in the two, the big one. And then, you know, you could feed it up 1.1, people do this all the time.

Yeah. So it's not the speed. The landing and execution and ability to keep your base tight, that's what makes the difference. Yeah. You heard it here first, guys.

And in order to do that, you have to make sure your weight's balanced properly so that the legs yeah when your legs are rooted into the ground now this is actually a practical thing i'm about to say yeah when your legs are properly rooted right you could apply more force into the person yeah because you're not attacking from an unstable base yeah that's why in hockey that lets you fight and punch each other in the face because their legs are on skate so they can't really push into the ground yeah and then deliver that same amount of force right as opposed to like you're in boxing shoes in the boxing ring with the stuff that makes sure there's a lot of traction on the bottom of that feet you could really dig into the

floor and there's a kinetic chain from the floor to the ankles to hips, and you're throwing these bombs. Yeah. Same idea with the tile. The mechanics look like a punch, but you're going down a little bit. Right, right. But it's like any baseball, right? You know, if someone's swinging the baseball and their feet are kind of like tiptoeing and off balance, like people are going to rip that guy apart. Yeah. But they don't do that in judo because people don't really know it

yet. But now if you're listening to this, watch, just type in Taitoshi on Instagram hashtag Taitoshi and watch everyone's Taito.

You know, you could see like the guys who are good, who are doing well in the content realm, their feet are rooted. Majority of the time. Majority of the time.

All right. All right the time. Alright. Interesting. I think that's the differentiator between a guy who's expert. I'm going to take a look. Even Uchimata. You ever see Justin Flores to Uchimata and his legs go high and he's on one foot

and the guy's on the floor and he's standing above him and he's super stable on one leg with the leg up to like it's like a painting yeah paint is beautiful but the guy that does uchimata he like almost falls over jumps and then lands on the side that's right yeah yeah and then um so that's actually you know that kinetic chain stuff you're talking about i think the way you show is i can see why it's like a punch because you uh basically put your elbow underneath their armpit and then punch through right yeah so it's almost like yeah i can see that for but the way i do it is i actually do

it more like a baseball swing where i actually don't put my elbow underneath the armpit and then instead i swing around yeah it's like kind of like a sale yeah and i swear i i found that that's a little easier on me because i i wasn't strong enough to like really put that in so those different ways what are other some other different ways you've seen and you know do you have any sense of what certain what styles work for what what kind of people yeah i mean i've seen like a mongolian tayo yeah when you have any sense on what styles work for what kind of people? Yeah. I mean, I've seen like a Mongolian Tayo.

Yeah. When you have the collar on the hand and then they have their collar hand underneath. Right. You're pulling and then you're trapping that arm, right, with the other hand and then turning into a Tayo from there. You know? It's like the arms are like on opposite side, basically. Well, it's like. It's sandwiching their collar hands. Yeah.

And this is the thing, like you enter it and they think they could like thread their arm out and then post. Yeah. They can't because you're secretly catching it with your right hand. Right, right. If you turn it to the left, you know? Yeah. So that's one. The Korean say in Aesop leave a hand on the bicep.

Yeah. They say one-handed taiyo, but you're really using two hands. But like, it's kind of a tricky thing because you're holding with one hand and then you're like kind of attacking the bicep. Yeah. They say one-handed Taiyo, but you're really using two hands. But like, it's kind of a tricky thing because you're holding with one hand and then you're like kind of attacking the

bicep as opposed to keeping it on the collar. Right. You're doing two hands on one arm. Yeah. That's a really cool

one where like the person went, they were right versus left. Yeah. And they go punching that collar hand off to

gain collar hand position, punching the handle, trying to gain collar hand position. And handle trying to gain collar hand position and then as they go to punch it they grab the sleeve and then they do a left side tile i just saw that on this guy's a japanese guy rs judo something yeah he's amazing and he he was a high level competitor back in the day he posts footage of him doing one door and then he hit it live and posted it and i was like like, wow, that's incredible.

I don't think I've ever seen that before. I'd check that out. But it makes the perfect sense because he's priming the person to say, hey, he's just trying to get rid of this collar. He's just trying to get rid of the game. And then he reaches. Yeah. And then he just grabs it.

And the guy's like, no, he's trying to take the collar off. Oh, I see. I see. I know what to do here. And then he's already turning. And then he's like, oh, shoot. I thought he was just going to punch that collar hand off. Oh, I see, I see. I know what to do here and then he's already turning. And then he's like, oh, shoot. I thought he was just going to punch that collar hand off.

Right. With that post, I didn't know he was going to go for a left side tile. You know? That's kind of a really cool thing that I recently saw that I've never seen before.

And that's the beauty of this stuff. Yeah, yeah. The more you know the fundamentals, you can add stuff, different contacts, new entries. There's still so many things undiscovered, you know?

I think that's, you hit the nail on the head because I think the biggest point is that you need to get the basic fundamental movement down, like the mechanics, then these arm positions and, you know, all these things don't really matter as much. Like, you can't really kind of tell it to your body. Like I know Anthony, our friend Anthony does a complete,

he does a lot of Thai and he does it completely different. Like he like almost like shoots side by side almost like to the person, you know, he thinks like that. Like as long as you get the rotation going, the proper weight distribution, right. And then he has beautiful judo.

He's lefty. And then he has a very good sukashi game. If you go 内, he'll sukashi it. Uchimata, he'll sukashi it. Sukashi means like when you're going for an inside lift with a Uchimata leg, when you're trying to load the person, kick their legs off, he sidesteps. Reattacks that fall

with a taiyo. He'll go Uchimata as well. So it's like Uchimata, sidestep, taiyo. Uchleg with a taiyo so he'll go uchimata as well so it's like uchimata sidestep taiyo uchimata taiyo

taiyo taiyo uchimata and then he'll wait for you to enter that leg and he'll sidestep

and then counter you and then he has a drop sanai to the weak side it's just

such a perfect system he does it really good because he fights for hand position he's very good

at keeping that sleeve hand forehand what an unbelievable judoka that guy is yeah you know such clean technique so there's so many we've seen so many different variations on this throw yeah and uh um yeah so i think again like the fundamentals very important and let's kind of talk about how to properly practice it like it do you usually recommend people?

I'm sure a lot of people ask you about Taiyotoshi. And do you just say like Uchikomi? Uchikomi is a tiny part of it. I'm a big believer in not doing 10,000 Uchikomi today. You know, I think it's just point of diminishing returns. You hit that pretty quick. You're just kind of wasting time. If you're doing it wrong, it's just...

Reinforcing the wrong one. Yeah. So Uchikomi, moving Uchikomi, three-person Uchikomi, Nagakomi. kind of wasting time. If you're doing it wrong, it's just... Reinforcing the wrong one. Reinforcing bad habits. Yeah. So, Uchikomi, moving Uchikomi, three-person Uchikomi, Nagakomi, and then kind of

doing these drills where you're like putting it all together. Grit fighting, moving, fainting, going here, going there. Situational training. Situational training,

something we did a podcast on before. Yeah. Go check that out and then just kind of having like a drill mentality where it's like conceptually you're not trying to memorize patterns you understand these little chunks of things that you do

yeah take one way attack the other direction it's a misdirection you aim position and then attack tile or something like this drilling this and being able to improvise different attack systems I think that's the way you get the most out of it right do you so on the flip side do you see any people into different attack systems. I think that's the way you get the most out of it, you know? Right.

Do you, so on the flip side, do you see any people that you wouldn't recommend Tai O Toshi to? Yeah, I mean, if you have knee problems, ankle problems, your legs are kind of flimsy. Yeah. You know, that kind of. I see.

It can be a little bit risky. You know, lightweight can do it on other lightweights, but I don't really suggest lightweights doing taiyo on heavier people. You wouldn't put this, you wouldn't include taiyo tush as part of old man judo?

I mean, if you're a heavyweight, maybe, you know. If you're a heavyweight, super tall, you know, like you could do taiyo, no problem.

You could shoot across and reach. Opponents legs, they can't reach yours, right? But, you know, I think if you're much lighter, you know, Seinagi, much more safer. You have both legs underneath you.

Right, right, right. One leg out extended, you know? The beauty of the Toshi, it's like you're on both legs, so you're much more stable, like an Uchimata. Yeah. But that instability is great because the opponent's unstable as well. So if you have an edge of being able to balance yourself

on that leg more, understand that position better if you have an edge of being able to balance yourself on that leg more, understand that position better, you have an advantage. I see. So Uchimata, how it integrates the taiyo, yes. Big man,

yes. But, you know, heavier the guy is, the more weight that might land on your leg. It's risky. It's risky. I see.

Yeah. I know people do drop taiyo. Oh, yeah. I bet. Always, yeah. I taiyo. I'm always sauce about that. I've never really seen any catastrophic injuries with drop taiyo.

But you're kind of like with drop serenade you can kind of minimize the impact on your knees if you're properly underneath and whatever. But then with drop taiyo you kind of have to clam on your knee, right? Yeah.

Yeah. But it's just the outstretched leg that can potentially be sat on. Right. You know, so I don't like having my limbs underneath anyone. Like, yeah, I'd say. Even like, that's why I don't like people

talking about Toshi on me. Yeah. Very aware that I keep it at a distance, not getting in a position where I can get... Yeah. There's them sitting on that knee, and essentially you're throwing your legs underneath the person. One leg, extended.

So it's a little bit risky. You have to really know what you're doing if you're going to attack the stuff from Rondori. Yeah. And I know people love Taiyo. It's inherently very risky. I see. If you're like 81 and you're on with a 66-kilo,

man, that's the perfect guy to practice it on. It becomes a big part of your game and do it in competition, but if you go on with someone heavier, I definitely wouldn't go for it. I see. So that's good.

Yeah, talk. I'm also curious about what you think, how you think Taiyotoshi can fit into BJJ, if at all. Like the Gi game and the no Gi game.

I mean, you can definitely no Gi. No one's really done it yet, you know. But people are doing a lot of Uchimata now. Oh, yeah. I've seen that, yeah. And when people start stepping off Uchimata, people start doing Taiyo. Right. And I've seen a lot of guys, like, doing Taiyotoshi on their instrument.

In no Gi, you know, grabbing the wrist and the hand on the bicep. I've seen it so many times recently, you know. Like one, oh, the one-handed variation. Yeah, one-handed variation. I'm always looking to see if their feet are very, you know, stable or not. And then if they are, I'm like, okay, this guy must be doing some kind of stand-up training. Maybe they're really good. And then I kind of go on their, you know, Instagram page and I poke around a little bit I always thought it was a little hard to do

the one handed tile in Nogi because I mean I'm probably just not good enough in Nogi but it's just like

it's so slippery like yeah this is all demonstration people are demonstrating it's not in live I see I see

I guess theoretically you could do it from like an underhook and a wrist but all these things are very tough when it gets slippery. Right.

I think in the beginning when you're not that slippery, yes, go for these things. And when you're more slippery, just attack foot sleeves. I see. The game has to, your Tachiwaza game has to change as the matches progress. That's so interesting. You have to take account into slippage. Yeah. I mean, in the earlier rounds, it's very difficult to slip heel hooks.

Yeah. Yeah. But once you're sweaty, you're going to, you's very difficult to slip heel hooks. Yeah. Yeah. But once you're sweaty, you know, not easy, you know, to finish one on a very slippery person that knows how to slip their heel good. When I did Nogi, I used to just do, yeah, older hook, and then like the pummeling position, and then do the taiyotoshi. But, yeah, you're right. As you get sweaty I guess

that is really a part of the game I wonder why I mean this is kind of a sidetrack but I wonder why that was never it never felt to me being sweaty never felt like a problem when I wrestled but it's more of a concern

in nogi grappling I wonder why maybe it's more of a concern in no-gi grappling and i wonder why maybe it's shorter submission yeah yeah anyway so okay so in that sense how about how about b bjj i mean you see a lot of tile right versus left yeah i mean you see right versus right also but i think it's a little bit harder yeah actually it's not i mean you see more tile right versus left i think yeah you know in bjj when you're doing no i mean in judo but like when you're doing bjj a lot of guys I think it's a little bit harder. Yeah. Actually, it's not hard. I mean, you see more title right versus left, I think. Yeah. You know? In BJJ, yeah. And when you're doing...

No, I mean... In judo. But, like, when you're doing BJJ, a lot of guys just mirror their opponent's stance, right? Right, right. So you see right versus right, right versus left. No one has a right versus left strategy. Right?

So, you know, I think it's a lot harder to do, especially with the hips really far back. Yeah. You know, when you snap them down, you know, you might not go for a title. I think it's less prevalent. And you're setting up, you know, you might not go for a tile. I think it's less prevalent and you're setting up, you're setting up. And the guy feels like,

oh man, this guy's setting up something big. He's going to go for a turn throw. Yeah. Pull guard, you know? Right. So,

and you know, I'm starting to change my tune on guard pulling too. You know, it's pretty martial artsy, right? Reduce risk, go to where you're comfortable and fight in a place where you don't have a disadvantage.

Yeah. So I'm starting to understand it a little bit in a different way and take a different tune on it you know the i yeah you you made those videos right with the tomoy naga system the carpool yeah yeah yeah even just regular guard pulling someone who does it really good yeah you know you could go down with an advantage yeah having good, having the position that you want. You know, if you like playing a really good De La Riva game, like going down and then entering in your system immediately. So I'm not completely against it now.

I see. All right. If you like the Tai Toshi stuff, you can definitely see a lot of my Tai Toshi videos on YouTube. It's free. And if you like that, then you can kind of reach out to some of the

paid instructionals that are in that 10 to 15 minute range. All right. Yeah. Well, so I think we've covered a lot about Taiyotoshi.

And so this is one of the part of the series on different techniques in judo. Hope you guys liked it. Anything else before we close? Yeah. If you type in Taitoshi Shintaro, you'll see Taitoshi full instructional.

It's already got 70,000 views. Oh, pump that number up, guys. Yeah, pump it up. Go watch it. You know, learn three Taitoshis in four minutes. It's so clickbaity. Double Taitoshi is another one that I really like doing. Double Taito. Oh tai oh man i love that

sometimes i hit that and i feel like a kick yeah like wow you you hit one and then you follow up with another tai yo is that it i mean i hit i go tai yo to the inside leg and then i go tai yo to the other leg oh oh you kick it out and then do it again i see yeah i mean people do an inside leg tai yo and chain the uchimata to it. I see. But when you go inside leg taiyo and then you re-step and hit that other taiyo, you do two taiyos in a row and hit them, it's like magic. People are like,

oh, I didn't know you were going nuts in the dojo. Yeah, nice, nice. I'll say this one fun story. There's only a few times I've thrown shintaro for legit, and I'll say one time was like one-handed Taiyo. Yeah, I caught it. The one left side Taiyo and you hit it with a Tomonage once. Yeah, those are the only, yeah, I remember that.

That was pretty good. I still have nightmares about that. But Taiyo, it feels so great. I feel like, yeah, everyone should check, you know, try to learn Taiyo today. And the way you set it up is very cool, too. Yeah. Because you're right versus right and you have the sleeve.

Yeah. And then you're trying to get my hand off. Right. Get my hand off and then you turn. So yours is truly a one-handed Taiyotoshi. It is, yeah. You only have one hand on gripping the person. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's the one-handed style. Or she copied off of me. He copied you. Allegedly. Yeah. We got to clip this and then put it on Taiyotoshi. Oh, man. He's you. Allegedly. Yeah, we got to clip this

and then put it up on social media. Oh, man, he's good. Tag him. I told him he's back, you know, back in the city. He's like 40-something years old and he's trying to do it again and, you know,

he's going to come and beat me up. I hope everyone listening starts commenting on one of his Instagram. Like, hey, did you take that from me or you? He has an Instagram page, so maybe you can...

What is his Instagram page? Let's plug it. His is Wonhee Lee Judo or something. Let me see. I know. Wonhee Lee Judo. He is the god of Taiyotoshi, guys. No, you are, Peter. Wonhee Lee Judo.

Yeah, I'm looking it up. Man, he fought in Athens in the finals, dude. In 2004. Exactly. That's how old he is. Damn. Damn, Athens. He's a gold medalist. He beat, what's his name? Jimmy Pedro.

Oh, was it in the finals? No, it was like in the quarterfinals. I forget. Oh, no, it is the finals. No, the final was against the Russian oh I can't find his

maybe did he take it down well I don't want to drag this out oh look at this guy just copying your title

I want to see if I could do it from the camera ah oh yeah that's ah that that

copied off of me oh that is go tag Peter it's judo underscore is underscore

Lee Won Hee that's his Instagram oh nice go check it out comment on his thing he's gonna be like what are all these Americans

who is this guy Peter Yu that would be funny if you look at your page you these americans who is this guy peter you that would be funny if you look at your page like who is this i know 21 year old guy uh he just went from like 33 to 21 in a couple of days all right yeah uh that's about it guys um i'll we'll see you guys in the next episode yep thank you very much guys