The Shintaro Higashi Show - Teaching Kids Judo

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

Teaching kids Judo is a totally different ball game from teaching adults Judo. How do you keep them engaged? How do you keep them safe? How do you communicate with their parents? In this episode, Shintaro and Peter discuss various aspects of teaching kids Judo successfully, and how Shintaro runs a successful kids' Judo program at his dojo Kokushi Budo Institute. Please support us on Patreon if you can: https://www.patreon.com/shintaro_higashi_show. Any amount helps!

hello everyone welcome back to the shintaro higashi show with peter you as you can tell if you're watching this on youtube the video quality is a lot better because this is 1080p we bought brand new cameras me and peter both got brand new cameras before i was using an iphone right but now we're using a better webcam because we were able to afford it thanks to your support thanks to your support yeah patreon thank you people for doing this right i greatly appreciate it and now you can see my forehead wrinkles pretty clearly peter doesn't have any forehead wrinkles because his wife is a dermatologist and she gave him botox and botox i hope that's not like a hip-hop violation or anything no no it's fine i tell everyone it's

great i you know i swear by it great you know she she needs some practice so yeah she's a resident yeah i almost got it but i was too scared to do it i know inject anything into my forehead it's just a dirt like the outer layer anyway but um yeah and then uh so thanks for your support on patreon and today's episode was yeah was also a suggestion from our discord server uh from a from a patron you know so what are we talking about today so we're talking about teaching kids judo and uh you know the guy who suggested it was like oh man the sensei's trying to get me to do kids classes you know we made the joke like how to rope someone into teaching your kids classes for you ha ha ha kind of yeah you know

but happens across every dojo so this is for people who are teaching kids programs who are interested in teaching kids programs i have a lot of suggestions i have a lot of experience with this so that's what it's going on today right how to teach a's program or you know anything related to that field which is kind of interesting that's right yeah so let's kind of before we get into how you teach it let's kind of lay the ground uh foundation here and then yeah okay let's talk about how most programs run their kids classes how you've seen what you've seen across the board so a lot of the times right when you're teaching judo kids classes You sort of have your blinders on because you're always there you're teaching the kids classes if you're teaching the kids class

You're not visiting any dojos, right? So back when I was younger I went from dojo to dojo to dojo and whenever I would do a seminar like on a Friday or something like that Friday evening I would go earlier just to watch the kids program because usually the timing is similar. Kids get out at like three, kids class start at four and around six and the adults roll in. That's kind of universal, right? Right. So I would always go a little bit early and watch. And I considered it market research and I've done it with, you know, most of my friends dojos. I visited and checked it out. And and across the board when it comes to judo warm-up drills kids practice the technique there's some break fall a lot of overlap with

adult programs but then the kids do randori full throttle a lot of the times right and it's always like a couple years older kid versus someone a little bit smaller so you're relying on that kid to take it easy on that other child. So there's a big size and skill discrepancy because you get two kids equal in skill, not a lot of experience throwing each other. It's too dangerous. I see lots of activities

that are really no different than any gymnastics program or any phys ed program. And so I found it very difficult to distinguish that like a great judo program versus any other sort of wrestling related martial arts program you know what i mean so you know i kind of came up with my own methodology of teaching kids and our own program i'm not saying it's the best it's's probably not. You know, who knows? No one knows this stuff, whether it's the best or not. In my eyes, it makes sense.

Right? Right. And it's not just the judo schools you've visited. We'll talk about this later, but you've observed how other... Yeah, you've talked with those schools, karate schools. Yeah, BJJ, kids' programs. I've visited them all. And like I said, it's market research because you have to know what's out there, right? Right, right.

So let's jump right into it then. How do you do it then how do you do it how do you how do i do it yeah all right so first we divide it by age tiny gems kids one kids two it's got to be sort of age segregated and if you're trying to build up a program you kind of have to have the option of many different days right even though right now we don't at kvi because of the corona and everything and yeah we're rebuilding it right we're rebuilding the program but usually you want it segregated by age right and you want a correct teacher to student ratio which is a hard thing to do because it won't be a good ratio you know for us it's you know it's very different we want three instructors in the room from anywhere between 10 to 20 kids. Oh, that's a lot.

Right? Yeah, yeah. We want three. We want three. Head teacher, couple of assistants. I've seen one teacher in the room, 30 kids. I've seen that. And it's mayhem. And it's crazy.

But it's like a little bit too risky for me. And some people like the organized chaos. I'm not about that at all. Right? So the way we run it is we have warm you know, warm ups, a little bit of exercise stuff. And my message to the kids is like, hey, you're doing these exercises so you can be an athlete across all sports. Right. These skills will transfer over to other sports.

That's why you're doing it. That's why you have to be serious. Blah, blah, blah. Right. Right. That kind of stuff is standard. We do break fall. Right.

And the part that really distinguishes us is we teach throws right off the bat. Right? We don't make it a gymnastics program. Majority of the class, right? You just do judo. Teach in judo. Yeah, we're actually doing judo.

And it's no more than two minutes apiece for the instruction. No more than two minutes apiece. Yeah, attention span. Right? Attention span. No more than two minutes a piece for the instruction no more than two minutes a piece yeah attention span right attention span no more than two minutes a piece and total engagement is my number one priority when it comes to teaching the kids program right right you can't do one pair doing what you call me here everybody watch this thing these kids aren't engaged i'm teaching over here these kids are being ignored because you lose them. Right, right. Right? And when you lose them, you have to spend time reining them in.

So when I'm teaching, it's like, hey, two minutes. And the instruction is usually like, hey, you ever see Batman flip somebody? This is how it's done. It's called Ippon Senagi. I'm showing it. I'm teaching it. 20 seconds in, it's like, you guys want me to throw this guy? And the answer is always, yeah, throw him, slam him.

So then I'll slam him. Right? This is, you will show, you will show it to, with your, one of your assistants. Oh yeah,

I'm not slamming the kids. No way. Yeah. So two minutes goes by. It's like, okay, we're going to try this. No throwing.

I don't let the kids throw on their own dime. Right? I never let them do it. Now the kids go and try it. And each mat, there's an instructor to like four kids there's one instructor so there's kids here kids here sensei in the middle that way there's within reach at all times i see i see all right so that's why the ratio is very important and then so hey bringing

in we're going to do this maybe i teach they was a blah blah blah and here is the gold standard right that i i wish mass adoption just take this idea we we actually do the randori with the kids but i hold the back of their collars right i got this is like the yeah mind-blowing yeah you've been roped in to help kids that's right as your assistant yeah yeah so yeah that is the biggest game changer i think and if you take away one thing from this podcast ever right is that kids shouldn't be doing randori with other kids without safeguards in place right there has to be a lot a lot a lot a lot of trust for an older bigger kid to work out with a smaller younger more inexperienced kid

right and the risks are too high and i cannot take that risk i i refuse to take that risk so you hold the back of the collar right so now it's like they know judo you have three mats running student teacher ratio we talked about right so you have one sensei holding two kids one sensei holding two kids one sensei holding two kids, one sensei holding two kids, one sensei holding two kids. Six kids are doing Rondori. If you're not doing Rondori, your back is touching the wall. I'm holding them. One minute, two minute round max.

Right, right. Off, next two. Off, next two. When you hold the back of their collar, when they lunge at each other, they don't hit their heads. If one kid tries to bomb The other kid with an Osorogari as they're falling I could catch him on the way down Right you do you do let them fall. Yeah, you do Yeah, yeah, and when I'm there I could give him direct coaching devices. I'm right there holding the back of their collars

Mm-hmm. Don't put your hand down when you're getting taken down. You're gonna hurt your arm, right? Right, right, right Hey, I notice you're a little bit scared. Go for it. Go for it. See what happens, right? And I can sort of neutralize the advantage a little bit. If this kid gets taken down twice, it's like, hey, man, go for it. And the kid goes for it, I may give him a little bit extra,

you know, a little bit of extra. Right, yeah. You know what I mean? Or I may pull the other kid down. Yeah, yeah. Right? But because I'm there right because i'm there ochi or soto i do that combination hey ipa senagi is there boom right there right and it is labor intensive right because you need that ratio yeah but it's safe man it's safe yeah and then at the end of the class it's like hey maybe we'll do some sensei rounds if you're lucky like with the senseis yeah yeah because that way kids get juiced up for that too

yeah and that's how you run a safe program and at the end of the class has to be fun because you know one minute two minutes sensei says right jumping jacks sensei says jumping jacks you know right and then people stop right away because you yell it and then no i didn't say sensei says you gotta do push-ups whatever you know yeah and it's fun and that's how i think uh kids program should be run yeah and that's really the cornerstone right i made that the highlight why is your program different because of that because kids actually learn to do judo tumbling rolling this that exercise games they do that in phys ed when you join our program your kids are doing judo from day one four years old they're learning throws right right you don't

watch out your kids will throw you yeah so yeah they're learning judo and it's safe safe right safe it's safe the kids get actual combat experience face to face grabbing the other kid trying to drag the other kid down to the floor slamming each other and then the mom and dad's you know it's like you guys never experienced that unless you've done judo or wrestling before that's why we're distinguished and you know it's like one of my you know that's the pitch that's why we're distinguished yeah that's trade secret you know no other place does this the way i do it i have never seen it either anywhere else you know never seen it before once even not even in japan right like in japan they do i never i just literally came up with it because i was like i gotta trust that kid who outweighs this other kid by 20 pounds and he's two years

older right to not slam them right and then there's a lot of bit of this you want me to take it easy on this kid or i took it easy on you or i'm falling because you suck there's a lot of that between kids always right right right so you take two kids, almost with even skill. Both holding it. And then they look up at me and like, should I take it easy on this guy? I say, no, man. And then I can correct that kind of behavior right away because I'm right there. Yeah.

You see? Because then, you know, it's not like condescending or anything like that between kids. And they get to practice hard. Yeah. hard yeah and then yeah i really liked it when i first saw it i wasn't sure what how to make of it because i had never seen it but once i tried it and then the biggest thing i think is for the smaller kids or the beginners who who just started judo, they feel confident enough to try new throws. Yes. They build confidence. That's one of the criticisms.

How are these kids ever going to compete? A lot of these kids are not going to compete. Yeah. Right. They're not. Most kids don't compete. Right? But the criticism of how are these kids going to get better?

Let me tell you something. These kids are learning the technique and actually going for the technique with no risk of getting countered or nothing. And even if they get countered, it's okay because they get floated down to the ground. So because the risk is greatly reduced and I'm standing right there and trust me, kids are actually going for combinations constantly. And they're getting the best feedback because I'm right there. That's right. Yeah. there that's right yeah so like that's what makes the difference for me you know what i mean so unfortunately i'm getting you know more and more tired of doing it i mean you're like right right it's a little labor intensive

because you need that ratio yeah that's why you know you pay a head instructor to do it and then you pay you get two volunteers. Yeah kids right Owen You know it gets challenging when they're 12 13 years old They're they're pretty strong with and hit puberty and then they're getting bigger, right? Yeah, even when they're doing like throws on the crash mat, which sometimes I let them do in the beginning I'll hold the collar. I'll hold the back of the collar of the kid. That's getting thrown to tuck their head Oh even not get call me even in nagekomi all right right so when you're doing this you know it's different right and the message is so clear why is it so expensive i get parents questioning this is

because it's labor intensive this is different than anything you've ever done in your life there's no kids judo program like it out there right and you know i'm not here to be like oh my program's better than everyone else i'm not saying that but if you're listening to this and you're in that judo world i would beg you to just try this give it a shot give it a shot right your attention gonna go up through the roof right because kids yeah on patreon yeah so the okay so that the holding the collar is the differentiator and you did you uh touch briefly let's kind of go over the age groups a little bit because i forgot to tiny champs are what you have three groups six four to six four to six usually right kids one seven to ten kids two ten to twelve but this is flexible right you get an eight-year-old that's really

really advanced you put them in the older kids group right and you you know sometimes it's like oh my kid can't make it at 4 30 because he has a piano lesson okay come to the later class right that's fine right you know and you're like managing schedule and i'll tell you the least favorite thing about the kids program it's like just you know back and forth and coordinating with the parents adults it's like hey man this is a schedule come when you can these are the membership options done yeah right adults it's like oh i gotta think about this and oh tuesday that and 4 30 i can make it and then you gotta think about the match-ups and they ask questions which is okay but from you know a dojo owner standpoint kids a lot more work i think because you have another layer yeah parents you know another layer yeah and you have to manage

your expectations right right that's always the number one thing right well we'll touch on that later like yeah we'll touch on that yeah okay so now that's how the like that's the details of how practice is run but uh another thing is you know you kind of touched on there like attention span of kids how to maintain that how to incentivize kids to stay engaged yeah yeah like what yeah how did you how do you what's your take on this how do you have different philosophies right and i've done a master's in teaching not to brag or anything but i've got a master's teaching and then you know i've always found in my personal life that i was drawn to great teachers who are great leaders right so if you're a good leader in the room kids follow you and listen to you right you show that you're competent you show that you care you build trust and then you know what you're

talking about kids will respond to that right so that's first and foremost right the incentive is they want to learn from you you have to be the person they want to learn from right so like you know if you're not you know have your own thing together and you're disorganized and you're not, you know, have your own thing together and you're disorganized and you're not a good leader, then, you know, whatever you do with the belt system and the cake and the candy and none of that stuff going to matter. Right. Right. Right. So you yourself have to be sort of a leader. You have to be a role model first and foremost. That's the first incentive. Second, the messaging when you're teaching the kids is that, hey, guys, you're special because you do this. Why are you special?

Because anybody could kick and punch and then show and do these moves and things. You guys are actually putting your hands on each other and you guys are actually grappling. That puts you in a whole different category. It takes a lot of spirit. It takes a lot of guts. It's the scariest thing ever to get flipped over on your head right but you guys do it granted they're being held up right so of course now like they have a leader in the room and now that leader is also telling them hey you're different

because of this you're special because of this and it's true and i truly believe this right so now you have two layers right the teacher and the kid and now we're growing and doing things and then of course the belt system right you can't have judo without belts you just i mean you can yeah especially for kids right kids love the belt system because every other martial art does it you kind of have to do it you know and there is like the philosophy of of a clear path to black belt. This is how many classes. Kids can get the checklist. Kids can do the homework.

And kids can do the excellent stripe. I don't like that at all. Partially because I don't want to maintain that system. It's a lot of work. Yes, man. I know dojo owners who check their report card we give them homework correct homework uh goal setting thing and uh all this stuff and it's like oh my god i don't know how you even do it uh-huh right so i try not to build it around that you know

there is an incentive structure of the belt system but but it should be, I think, in my opinion, a byproduct of your hard work. It shouldn't be something. And there's that mentality that I won't talk about Taekwondo later. But there's a mentality of different motivations for different kids. Different incentive structure for different kids. Intrinsically motivated kid, extrinsically motivated kid. Different value systems for each and every child. You got to feed into that in order to keep them, right?

Right. I don't want the kids that need to be bribed with candy in the dojo doing judo. I don't want that kid. Right, right, right, right. Right. I also don't want the parent that's there checked out, dropping off the kid.

Hey, you are the help. You were here babysitting my child for an hour while I mess around my phone. I don't want that family either, checked out, dropping off the kid. Hey, you are the help. You are here babysitting my child for an hour while I mess around my phone. I don't want that family either. Right? I used to just accept everybody. Now I'm a little bit more selective. Also, I don't really have the full staff.

So that's another reason too. Yeah. Right? So incentive structure matters, right? But for us, we don't do you don't do the stripes and whatever okay no stripes so the so you kind of touched on it a little bit just now like kind of yeah how to deal with parents you know managing their expectations and whatnot so um that's i think it's another big part of teaching kids judo um yeah so you know

let's kind of talk about a little bit you know i know you know for example i can think of some parents who come in and say maybe they've done judo before themselves but they expect the kids to be superstars right away they expect the kids to compete like start screaming at me one time like why isn't my kid winning and like first of all i told you not to go to that tournament because your kid wasn't gonna get smoked like yeah you know your kid does judo once a week twice a week like the other kid does you know five days a week like that's just the mathematics of it just doesn't work yeah you get a once a week kid versus a three times a week kid that kid has three times more judo than your kid right

right how's that gonna how's that gonna fare for him right you know and i don't directly say this stuff but it's like all right that other kid who does judo five days a week that dad's in shape he does judo and he's training that kid at home it's not just at the dojo it's like yeah they probably roll around in the living room together. It's like you can't even do a push-up. How are you going to expect your kids to be like what? You know what I mean? It's like where are you getting this like expectation?

And I understand like, you know, you want to think. You want your kids to succeed. Yeah, yeah. Yes. But just, you know, I guess it's like a certain type of bias, right? There's like a desirability bias. It's like, I want my kid to be good at this. And he has a good teacher because he's Japanese.

And most of the time parents, that's, they really care about that. Cause I get parents calling. It's like, Hey, are you Japanese? Yes,

I am. And then like, you're going to be my guy. Kids saw it, you know, T sensei. And immediately I'm like, all right,

it's going to be weird. A little wary. Yeah. Yeah. But you do have to manage the expectations, you know t-sensei and immediately i'm like all right it's gonna be weird a little wary yeah yeah but you do have to manage the expectations you know so how do you approach there like you can't even you can't just tell them tell your parents like oh you know like you have to soften them up a little i guess i do have to soften them up but i'm pretty up you know straightforward about it right okay even up in the beginning it's like hey you's like, hey, we don't force the kids to do competition. It's an add-on. If they want to do it, they can do it.

I don't advocate for it because in order to compete, you have to have proper training and proper this and that. And I understand having a separate competitive team. A lot of dojos do that. But we don't really do that because if your kid wants to compete they have to do judo a lot more than three or four times a week right a lot of my parents on the west side they don't have time for that right the kids do tutoring different after-school programs they have all their schedules are stacked right so unless they're really committed right it's like it takes a level of commitment that you, maybe it's like we can't ask that level of commitment from you.

Right. Right. Right. So then I have this sort of open dialogue. I used to be very, very open with the dialogue with this with the parents. I see. But now recently it's like I've kind of put up a little bit of a shield too because you know it is uncomfortable to have these kinds of conversations right you know every day day in and day out well yeah so i guess the the

the bottom line is you got to be upfront about it with the parents you do have to be upfront about it yeah like what maybe yeah then they wouldn't they wouldn't build like false hope or anything like they gotta see the reality of like what what it takes to be successful yeah yeah so you know yeah and then yeah i think in that way it's uh i feel very strongly about this yeah because you also another point of related point about this is that you need to set your kids up for success you know it's not you do yeah you can't just throw a kid into a competition and expect him or her to be successful yeah you know it's like when is my kid ready for competition it's like your kid's been doing judo for three months you put them in these tournaments you're

gonna get kids that's been doing judo their whole lives right they start at three they're eight now they've been doing judo for five years three days a week four days a week that kid has crazy amounts of experience right right that kid does throws that are banned in our dojo yeah your kids will never see because yeah yeah we don't not kanipasame tani otoshi tani otoshi drop senagi i don't teach any of that stuff to the kids right dangerous right right right right right it's for for it's about longevity and safety right it's about longevity safety you know and uh getting kids uh right do it right do it you know i do think there should be a competition bracket where kids could demonstrate their throws that way all the kids could do it in a safe way yeah we talked about this in the Kata episode, I think.

Yeah, there's a value in that. So that's how you would be up front with the kids' parents, you know, kind of setting up the kids' voice. You're having a good dialogue. That's why you have to have good communication skills, you know? Not that I do. I think you do. Because a lot of times I don't want to deal with it, right?

Not that I do. I think you do. Because a lot of times I don't want to deal with it. So now let's switch gears and then talk about other schools. The things you've seen in other martial arts schools. You've mentioned Taekwondo a lot. And you can see how successful their kids' programs are. Almost everyone's kid has done Taekwondo at some point or another.

Yes. Successful from what lens? Yeah, I see. Number of kids, maybe. That's really the key. Yeah, number of kids. Are the kids having fun? Are they doing it safe? Yes.

Are the kids really capable of defending themselves in the whatever? No, they're probably not, right? But what's the goal? There's things that you know we can learn from the taekwondo methodologies judo's on one side of the spectrum completely let the kids 30 kids in the room let's let them slam each other uh don't really slam them that hard though try this thing and go you know that's one side of the spectrum and then on

the other side of the spectrum you got the taekwondo people. It's like, hey, these, I'm not saying all Taekwondo. Yeah, right. Most of the Taekwondo programs that I've seen, form-based, lots of stripes, lots of positive messaging, standing up to the bullies, different incentive structures. Whether it's like you get four stripes and you get a patch, you get four of those lion patches patches you get a doggy patch or whatever it is and then you get a birthday you know party where you could cut the cake with the samurai sword right and bring and bring your friends who don't do bring your friend day referral this all the right business things that you should be doing that i don't do right it takes a different kind of work yeah it takes work and it's not just the work part

i really do think it like kind of cheapens your product a little bit you know i have a very clear vision not a vision not even a vision anymore i have a very very clear message when it comes to our kids judo program right we're different because kids are actually doing judo in the safest possible way and you know you learn from me right i mean not really i'm not always there teaching the kids class but that's the clear differentiator that's how it is you like it or you don't right i see and i guess most times don't you know when they see the class they're like this is not like anything i've ever seen before and you know i've seen me personally like kids soccer classes kids baseball classes ballet class dance class all this stuff ours is different that's right right

yeah so so it's the yeah it's it's it's good to it's it i guess it's very it's almost required to have a uh message or vision in your head like how you want your program to be i mean you have your own idea and then you do the uh in your way but you know it's not not to say like the taekwondo way is bad or anything it's if if that's what you want you need to have the incentive structure and then run with it you know i'll tell you this man i took a trial taekwondo class before at my friend's taekwondo school with a bunch of kids i did it right market research yeah yeah you had fun he was literally like yo just come on the mat come on the mat right and then he was like sensation Sensei Shintaro.

I was like, don't even tell him my situation. I'm just a guy that's trying to Taekwondo. And he treated me like everybody else. It was so much fun, man. Running around, kicking pads, high fives. And I'm Taekwondo. And they had the whole creed. And you're yelling it.

And then you're getting into it. And the teacher's in shape. And he's charismatic. And he gave me a stripe on my fake belt that i didn't really have a belt but he like gave me like a belt on my first day and it's like i started like on this path of like this gamified thing right it's like oh man i already got two stripes like for showing up and then for something i said that i was gonna do at the beginning of the class like i just get two more i got a patch uh right right and then he's

like touching my back every now and then giving me high fives i'm feeling good and i'm loving it yeah dude i literally almost forgot that i like do martial arts and i was like man maybe this is for me i kid you not at the end of the class when he gave me a high five and he's like hey come see me in the office he gave me like this fake pitch, a membership pitch. And I was just like, maybe I should sign up for this. Like I really felt like that. Like if you would have pushed a little bit harder, I would probably put down my credit card and bought like a lifetime membership.

I'm not even kidding. Yeah. And then he was like, and that's how it's done, buddy. And I was like this. Whoa. What just happened? Yeah. Put that magic on good yeah why can't judo guys do some of that right right yeah yeah stop with like the tough guy acting to get that put them in a fucking tournament and make them animals and get your freaking tough yeah no there's a healthy balance in there right right i see that's yeah though i've seen schools like that do it right you know of course you can't do judo without

any randori you can't do that i mean right you need some randori but the safety things need to be in place and then depending on how you know extrinsic rewards you want to mix into your your system that's right yeah you got to kind of adjust and then see where you fit in in the market you know i mean fortunately for me like there's not too many judo schools in the neighborhood but if there were all ton of judo schools in the neighborhood and they all started adopting what i'm doing now and i can't be differentiated with everybody else's program then i'm gonna have to start doing birthday cake right right yeah you gotta think about the you know business side of things too for kids yeah you know kids programs yeah all right well i think yeah that's what it's about i think that was a good overview i hope you guys you know got some ideas on how to implement things at your dojo if you're roped into teaching kids.

This is just like me ranting for 30 minutes because I feel very strongly about this. Yeah. I mean, that's what we love about you and this show. I don't know, man. Hope so. Yeah. Thank you for listening. Yeah.

Thank you, everyone. Anything else, Shintaro? No, man. Thank you for listening yeah thanks thank you everyone uh anything else shintaro no man thank you for listening to me rant i could rant about this all day uh and i gotta do a little bit better of a job uh myself with the kids program i've been kind of slacking a little bit i'm not gonna lie on the business administrative side right well you're just kind of scratching from uh starting from scratch again but i had a parent to say the other day like yo my kid's been a white belt for like nine months i'm like uh yeah we'll take care of man just trust the process yeah trust the

process it's now about the kids getting good you know yeah having fun loving it nice all right thank you all right thanks for listening guys and we'll see you guys in the next episode