The Shintaro Higashi Show - Veterans Judo with Ray Marquez & Billy Gavigan | The Shintaro Higashi Show

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

In this episode of The Shintaro Higashi Show, we dive deep into the world of Veterans Judo with special guests Ray Greeley and Billy Gavigan. They discuss the mission behind Veterans Judo USA, the challenges and rewards of competing over 30, and how they’re building an inclusive, international community for older judo athletes. Whether you’re a former elite competitor or a hobbyist returning to the sport, this episode will inspire you to get back on the mat.00:00 – Intro & Guest Introductions02:30 – From Military to Mat03:45 – Why “Veterans” and Not “Masters”?05:00 – The Importance of Competing After 3007:00 – Age Divisions & Longevity in Judo08:15 – Veteran-Specific Tournaments in the U.S.10:00 – Tournament Structure & Experience12:00 – Novice-Friendly Formats13:30 – Travel, Training, and Community15:00 – Building USA Veterans Team17:30 – Ranking & Point System18:30 – Camaraderie Over Rivalry20:30 – Safety, Rules, and Injury Prevention22:00 – Psychological Barriers for Former Elite Competitors24:00 – August 23rd Tournament in Charleston, SC26:00 – Annual Veterans Judo Training Camp27:30 – Masters Worlds in Paris & International Depth30:00 – Encouragement to Newcomers32:00 – International Growth & Website Resources34:00 – Veterans Need More Recognition36:00 – How to Grow Veterans Judo in the U.S.38:00 – Outreach to BJJ & Older Athletes40:00 – Final Call to Action🚨 LIMITED-TIME OFFER: 40% OFF 🚨The All-in-One Instructional Bundle just got even better.Every major instructional. One complete system. Now at our biggest discount yet.Grab yours now at 40% off : https://higashibrand.com/products/all-instructionalsThis won’t last. Build your game today.🔥 Get 20% OFF FUJI Gear! 🔥Looking to level up your judo training with the best gear? FUJI Sports has you covered. Use my exclusive link to grab 20% OFF high-quality gis, belts, bags, and more.👉 https://www.fujisports.com/JUDOSHINTARO 👈No code needed – just click and save!Links:🇯🇵 Kokushi Budo Institute (The Dojo) Class Schedule in New York, NY 🗽: https://www.kokushibudo.com/schedule🇯🇵 Higashi Brand Merch & Instructionals: https://www.higashibrand.com📚 Shintari Higashi x BJJ Fanatics Judo Courses & Instructionals Collection: https://bjjfanatics.com/collections/shintaro-higashi/David Kim YT/Instagram:  @midjitsu ​

The Shintaro Higashi Show is sponsored by Hakuen AI. Hakuen AI helps you measure, predict, and solve customer churn. Visit Hakuen AI and start your free churn audit today. Higashi brand. Train hard, live strong, wear Higashi brand. Judo TV, your premier destination for live and on-demand judo coverage. Never miss a throw. Hello everyone.

Welcome back to the Shintaro Higashi Show with David Kim. Today we have a very special episode about veterans judo, formerly masters judo, and we got two main guys here. We have Ray and Billy. Tell us about yourselves. All right so look I've been involved in judo probably my entire life. I'm from South Jersey not too far from U-Santaro and my school or was my dad's school we've been there over 60 years. It's still going and I've been in and out of judo most of my most of my life you know a little bit of break door in college and all that and get my career started and I also have a school down in Myrtle Beach so in Jersey Jersey, it's called Vineland Judo in Myrtle Beach, or South, I'm sorry, South Carolina, it's Myrtle Beach Judo.

And we're just keeping it going. I competed a little bit, you know, a while as a kid, and then took a break a little bit, and then came back in my 30s and started competing in this whole veterans thing. Awesome. And you're the guy that organizes all the veterans events in the United States, right? So look, here's the thing. There's two different things. So you have USA

Judo that, you know, kind of puts on Nationals and, you know, other events. Myself, Hector Negron, and Brad Daniels came up with Veterans Judo USA. So a separate nonprofit organization to promote veterans. And we put on two tournaments a year in a training camp to try to boost involvement in veterans and people over 30. Yep. And tell us about you, Billy. So my story's a little different.

I was heavily involved in Judo when I was younger, like most. Transitioned out of high school and joined the military and was competing at a high level, but my actual career in the service took over so I kind of basically stepped away from judo for a while. Had a very, you know, great time with business and work and looking for something to do as I get ready to retire. So about three or four years ago, I got back in to Judo as a hobby just to try to get back

in shape so I'd have something to work on and do, which led to meeting Ray and competing and feeling the buzz again and wanting to compete. And here I am now, three years later, have a great school down in Beaufort, South Carolina, travel with Ray and the team often internationally won nationals this year so it's a judo has been a a way for me to to start to step down from my business career but still have the energy to focus positively on something. Awesome yeah thank you guys for being here I love it that you guys both own dojos and you guys are in the game and you guys are older career men who are doing both and also competing I think that's like that

competing factor is such a rare thing right I think that's absolutely amazing so why veterans and not masters like let's start with that jargon because a lot of guys when they say veterans is like they think ex-military I thought I think yeah what when did that happen? Yes, when did that switch over? That switched over, I don't know, like maybe 10, 15 years ago, I forget the exact date, but my understanding is that the International Judo Federation, the IGF, didn't want to call it Masters because they have a Masters tournament, right? Yes, they do.

The big high level Grand Slammage type of tournament. And they didn't want it confused, so they began to call it veterans, meaning over the age of 30. And the same thing, like I, it probably is mostly in the United States, I get it from everyone. Soon as they see veterans, they think military. And it's not related to it.

I know a lot of the tournaments over in Europe, France in particular, they still call it the Masters. So it is a big confusion. I mean the divisions are M1, M2, so it has the M in front of it. Yeah, you think they would keep it. I don't understand why one tournament throws the whole thing off. Yeah, it's okay though. But it all works out.

Why Masters? Why should we care about this? Tell us a little bit more about that. So look, the couple of reasons. Number one, as far as Judo, it's supposed to be a lifetime sport. Because you didn't like kinda wanted this thing to go on forever, right?

And then we should spread it around and spread the word and keep teaching Judo. I think competing is a necessary component of learning Judo. Teach. Right, we teach a technique component of learning judo. We teach a technique and you work on it. And then you work on it in randori at your club. And you see if you can't use that technique

against your teammates. And then the next level is to compete in a shi-ai to see if what you're learning is working. So it is all part of the learning aspect. The second thing is, and I'm a chiropractor and I see lots of patients, and there's such a huge discrepancy of how people are in shape over the age of 30.

I might even bring that down to 25. Right after college, man, I see some people that are in great shape, and I see some people declining. And if you think about it, there's not a whole lot of sports that you can be actively involved in on a competitive stage over 30.

Like, soon as you leave college, it kind of tails down. You know what I mean? And I know there's sports out there and all of it doing it, but I think people need to stay active their entire lives. Like, all the way to the end, you should be going. Right, and that's how we stay healthy.

So not only is it how to learn judo and get better at judo, but as a society, we need to stay active. You know, and I get it a lot, you know, people are like, what, you're 55 and doing what? You know, you're, you know, but why is that a thing? Like, why should it be any different for me than a 25 year old? It's true.

Right? I mean, I think as a society, and you see it in Europe a bunch, where they promote veterans or people over the age of 30 more. Like I've been to a bunch of, like community centers and all that, that the competitions I've been to,

and not only are they having judo tournaments, but they're having wrestling, they're having older baseball, they're having all kind of stuff. I think it's just a society thing, right? We need to push, hey, you need to keep working out and be active our entire lives. Ray's lucky that we're not in the same division. That's a joke. Yeah, so I am an M4, which is 45 to 49, and Ray just bumped up to M6, right, Ray? Yeah, so I'm I am an M4 which is 45 to 49 and Ray just bumped up to M6 right?

Right? Yeah, M6. And we travel overseas. So it's a you know, it's it's a huge blast. So for people that don't know the M's it starts at M1 and it goes every five years and you kind of compete in your age group. I was just over in Japan a few weeks ago and they had a Veterans International Tournament and they had an M12 so it's got to be like 90 years old and they had people in the division. Wow. Those guys go just as hard as you go or somebody that's a senior goes but it's just at their age level, right? So the competition is huge overseas and it's a huge part of what I think keeps people focused.

I needed Judo. Judo basically saved my life, to say that. I was running a great business, getting ready to retire, but I know I would be like somebody else that I would know who would probably live two years and die if I didn't have something to focus on. So the energy that we have as we grow through our business career or in our athletic career when we're younger, you need to have something to focus on like Ray said. So Judo has given me a caveat and

an avenue to focus my energy. I'm back doing great positive things. I think I walked into a local club. I was 240 pounds. I was drinking every day. This is only three years ago. So Judo got me back in shape and it has me focused on you know now I'm transitioning out of my business career and I've got something great to do I'm back coaching and mentoring getting to compete and it's been a huge thing so I'm sure there's a lot of people that have that same need to you know have focus and drive. That sounds amazing so you know I have the impression in my head like all right Masters we have like a 45 year old guy that does Judo in my gym he's gonna

sign up for a local tournament and go uncontested it just happened to like two of my guys at a local tournament they both went spent all day there the other guy didn't show up he got his money back burned the whole day he was so pissed off yep does that happen at some of these bigger events or the international events or i i would assume not right so it so first of all that's that's the number one reason that I started Veterans Juno USA because like you I've had some students that are over 40 but they're white belts yellow belts green belts yeah in the same exact scenario that you just said happens yeah and at 45 or 50 you don't want to fight a 20 year old or you don't want to fight even a 30 year old you know because, because there's a difference. So we decided, hey, let's promote veterans only

tournaments. So we have a tournament coming up on August 23rd and then again in January. So we have August to January every year. It's nothing but veterans. Right. No kids. No seniors. The divisions are well, like other people in each division? Yeah, there are other people in each division. So now look, we're still growing. I think our last tournament we had like 140 competitors. So we guarantee everybody matches first off. So what happens is it is a points tournament. So if you sign up in your division, no one's there, you get your points.

I want to know more about that. Yeah then we'll come up to you and say hey let's um you might go with these guys and we'll bracket it up and we'll either get you another division or we'll get you some exhibition so everybody competes. So we can get you as close to your age and weight as possible. The next thing is we're done by three. You know, so I love that. We get in there. It's just veterans. You're not coaching your kids. You're not waiting for the seniors to be done. Right. We get in there. We start about nine, nine thirty. We compete. We're done by three. We're having an after party after having drinks together. Oh, you know, so it's just in and out and and it's just for veterans.

And what came up with that like I've been fortunate enough to go over to your foot launch and the first tournament I did was the your Metropole in in Lille France near Paris they had 800 veterans Wow they cap it 800 huge the tours event they cap at 500 Tromble is another 500 but they have like 12 tournaments a year. Wow. All veterans. That's amazing. And I'm like why should I have to fly to Europe to get some matches in? Do you think we could get there? I don't know if we can get to that size but we can definitely grow for sure. Because look at veterans at the World Championships in Vegas. There were people showing up I had

no idea who they were. And like I'm in the mix, I know all the veteran players. And they were coming from all over, probably because it was Worlds and it was in Vegas. But they don't compete in anything else. So I do think there's room for a bro. There's a good 15 to 20% of my gym is over 35. And you know what, when they say like, since I'm thinking about competing,

I'm always like, nah man, they're gonna put you in these, like, you know what, why? You like, since I'm thinking about competing, I'm always like, nah, man, they're gonna put you in these, like, you know what, why? You know, you're gonna get injured, you know? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Cause you know, like an injury to me is worse than an injury to you. Yeah, yeah, sure.

And then, you know, also like, if you're a green belt and you go to some of these veteran tournaments, you may go up against a black, there's like, there's this guy, Kevin Wang. I'm sure you've heard of him. Yeah, I know Kevin well, yeah, he's a black belt You know and then I've had guys in his age group who just started judo like four months ago And he had to go up against Kevin Wang and it's like, you know, like that guy's a black belt The guy's freaked out. He doesn't want to do it anymore. It kind of like ruined judo for him a little bit

Yeah, it's like, you know, we have a novice division. So we have a novice and a novice open. So, you know, that was my main point in this whole thing. It wasn't so much for all the black belts, which I like, because I get some, I get some of it in for me, but it was for our beginner guys. So they could have an opportunity to compete somewhere at their own level. There's a lot of guys floating around there in the clubs that don't even know about the veterans judo program or doesn't, you know or don't know that they can still compete internationally, gain points. There's a points roster. The traveling is to me a part of the best part of the program.

You can go do judo for 12 or 15 minutes in France. It's an easy flight over and then you go travel, spend a week there with your family. It's unbelievable destination traveling. And then here it's growing in the US. There's a lot of people that you guys know that I know that used to play judo that still show up at the club once in a while. But I think if they had something to focus on, a tournament or two, it would really help them with their game and get more focused on getting back in shape. Yeah, it wasn't until I saw Ray last year at the World Veterans in Las Vegas and Ray's

like, dude, I'm really running this thing. And I saw the Instagram, and I saw the thing, and I'm like, whoa, you're really doing this all out. And then I had forgotten about it. And then I saw Billy at my gym. He came by to workout with us. And then I was like, and Billy's raving about this Veterans Judo thing.

And I'm like, all right, you know what? There's enough people talking about it, and it's getting into my ears. We gotta really have a conversation about this, you know? So how do we get people to this competition? Like what is the buy-in? Like how does that, it's just regular sign up. So look, all of my tournaments,

they're just on Smooth Comp. You know, I promote it quite a bit on Facebook, on Instagram and all that. It's just like any other tournament, super easy to sign up. Our tournaments are about $70 to join. We always try to have them at a location that everyone can fly into easily.

So far we've had them in Texas, we've had them in Chicago, Denver, Charleston, Motel Beach. I wanna have one up your way, we just gotta shoot for trying to get a venue up towards New York. Yeah, that'd be great. I mean, there's a lot of dojos out there that have a lot of old guys I mean majority of dojos judos I don't want to say this but it's like almost an aging sport you know most

gyms have a crop of like five to ten old guys that are not doing shit in the back. Yeah yeah. You know they're just it's a social club for them. Yeah. And they almost kind of ruin it because they start bothering all the young people, come here, let me show you this thing that I did. But if there was an avenue for them to actually train and compete in something, they might bring back some spark into the club and not annoy everybody and it's a good sport for everybody, right? So look, if you look at it, USA Judo puts on nationals.

So what are the big things for veterans? Nationals and the US Open. There's not really any other big thing. You have all the regional tournaments which try to have them, but they're not solely for veterans. Yeah, there's four major points events, right? There's nationals, there's the president's cup, right? That's right, president's cup. Then you've got the Open, which is coming up here at the end of the month, which is a great tournament. Then what's the other fourth one? There's basically four ones of the major tournaments and then there's some smaller ones. Here in the US, I've gotten matches every time. The last tournament at Dallas, I didn't get a match, but that was fine because I got in some exhibition matches. As you travel overseas though, it's a whole different ballgame. It's huge.

So as you travel overseas though, it's a whole different ball game. It's huge. Judo overseas makes you realize how big Judo is in the world. They have players that are still being paid by their government to be part of the program. There's some tournaments overseas like in Lille. Paris this year coming up for Worlds is going to be unbelievable. They'll be 16 and 30 deep in the bracket. Huge. So you're also doing some fundraising also to like have a US team.

Because I remember seeing you guys in this USA gear and all this stuff. Like tell us, tell me a little bit more about that. I want to know more about that. So look, a couple of things. Number one, we put out some sponsorship opportunities for people for our tournaments so we can keep those going, make them grow grow get them bigger and bigger. A more important one which I'm really excited about is we just started a sponsorship program to fund a Team USA to go to Worlds. So we're going to reach out to a bunch of corporate companies

and to some individuals and really anyone can donate and just try to gather up some money and try to help athletes pay for their flight, their hotel, and maybe their registration. Because I think that there's two things when you go to Europe. Number one, it's the cost. So that inhibits a lot of people from going. And then two is time. So I can't help with the time part.

Yeah, it's tough when you have kids and it's like, I'm going to take off a week and go to this thing and you've got to convince your wife that you know you're going to... Or you take your wife and your kids and now the like I'm gonna take off a week and go to this thing and you gotta convince your wife that you know you take your wife and your kids and that now the trips trip yeah yeah it's really expensive it's a could be expensive that way so we're gonna we're gonna do it we've already have some commitments to some from some major companies that are gonna give us some money and we're gonna simply split it up and try to help people a couple of the criteria though, like we

kind of have to put get the money to people that are helping us. So, criteria for funding is you would have to compete in two out of the last three of our tournaments and then you would have to be ranked. So the number one guy will go if he can't go, the number two and we'll just give money to those people. So how does the ranking system work? Say people. So how does the ranking system work? Say it again? How does the ranking system work? You're talking about points, it sounds very interesting.

You know the gamification of sport is just like kind of the best thing, right? So how does that work? What does that look like? So the point system, you know that's a breaded question for Brad Daniels. Brad Daniels helps us with all that. He's a commissioner for USA Judo for veterans. It's whatever criteria is right on USA Judo. Okay. And I think it's basically each tournaments are worth so many points. Right. So our tournaments are worth a

certain amount of points, the nationals are open, the nationals are worth points, US Open, and then if you do anything internationally they're all worth points. Nice. Okay so there's a full-blown ranking roster and then I think Billy you were telling me something about like how the camaraderie on these trips are a little bit different than the actual like when you were a young person trying to make an Olympic team you kind of hate everyone you know like it's a different feel and vibe right? Yeah I mean you're older yeah so you know feel and vibe. Ray is you know kind of my actual travel buddy right because he knows everyone goes to work.

It's like going to church with the pope when you travel with Ray. So the guys over there travel. They've been doing it a while. It's a really fun trip. Going out, let's see, cocktails, travel, judo. And everyone takes care of each other. It's not like you're actually left alone.

So it's a great way to travel. You know what a great part about it is too? It's Tara, you've been around the world with this stuff. Like I've met so many people from around the world. And like I'll put a post out and like some guy in Kazakhstan will like my post or someone in France or hey I know this guy and yeah you know all these different countries or my birthday they'll wish me happy. And it's just cool like hey there's some dude in Kazakhstan right now saying hey I know that guy. Ray was invited to go to what? Mongolia with a drug lord or something? I don't know what he does for work.

I want to go on that trip. He had a good time. You can tell this guy was like in the game or something but he's invited Ray to like ride goats and all that good stuff off the mountains of New York. There is a big camaraderie so not only in the international people but just for there's a solid group of guys that that do compete internationally from United States that just no one knows about it. I want to say there's at least a dozen, a dozen and a half of us that always go. Like I've learned about all this stuff from some of the old guys like Sandy North, James Kinder.

Those guys were doing these tournaments before me. And yeah, yeah. Those guys are legends in this sport. What does he want now? 17 world championships, Sandy? Or something like that. He's up there. And he is nimble, man.

I got a chance to talk to him at the World Veterans last year and boy, he has good judo too. He goes onchi, he does one hand and starts sode. I think he did a kata guma in one of those matches too. I was like what is going on here? Who is this guy? It was in Lisbon or Poland Worlds. He had the throw of the, it was a sode, a perfect sode. It had to be the throw of the tournament. Yeah, wow. Now I hate to ask this but what's the injury rate for something like this? You know? Great question. That is a great question.

At my tournaments, I think we've only had one or two minor injuries. It's a typical knee, shoulder. I don't think it's a lot better because the people are competing against people your own age. You're not going out against a 19-year-old guy who's never done judo than Justin BJJ. True. If you're 60, you're 60 you're going at someone that's 60 and then they modify the rule set so as you get older

right when do you stop doing a naiwa's of right there's a certain start doing a no no what what age do you stop doing a was it there's like certain at like certain M levels right no no they just knock out they knock out chokes for some reason okay seven which is retarded Yeah, but isn't it because of the risk of the stroke with the arteries and They're saying that but there's never been an incident At least that I know or anyone knows of like wouldn't you rather have your arm broke? I

Don't want like I'd rather have a no. I'm sorry I'm saying the wrong thing. Right, right, right. I'd rather be choked and knocked out and woke up than have my arm broke. Yeah, but I'd rather get my arm broke and then get choked and have a stroke. Yeah, exactly.

So dying's worse than an arm broke. Right now, right. Time also, right? So as you grow older, your actual time on the mat changes also. Like I'm still going for three minutes because I'm an M4. What do you go down to the, you know? M7, M7 goes to two and a half.

Okay, two and a half minutes. Yeah, yeah. That's good that they have the differentiated rules that's like that. That's a really great thing I think. Hey, let me make one other point about competing at this age. So, and I tell this to all my students as well. Like a white belt going against a white belt at any age his match is tough for

him. Right? For sure. The Olympic kids are our senior leads. Their matches are tough for them. Look my match to me is just a tough I think as anyone else's. Right? To my perspective because the guys at my level and we're fighting hard so with judo like it doesn't change as you get older it's always hard right and it's very I always am nervous about it and I always make mistakes or I get injured but I think that's everybody that's the sport that we that we're in so I think you take the sport as hard as you want. I do think as you get to veterans, the players are more cognitive of injuries than maybe the younger kids.

The refs are a little more lenient with us sometimes. For example, a false attack to me isn't always a false attack. It might be my 100% attack. It just didn't look great. No way, man, no way. But you know, so I think it evolves, and I think that's the beauty of our sport, is we can still have that challenge.

All the way through. All right, so August 23rd, that's the big one, right? Yeah, that one's in Charleston. And she says, timing might be kind of perfect, so it's in Charleston, tell us a little bit more about that, because I might try to rush this episode past all the ones I have in the log. That way it's enough time for maybe people to sign up.

And maybe I'll even bring a team. Because I was talking to Billy about going down there to do seminars anyway. Absolutely. So what the, if you're listening. So look, Saturday, August 23rd. Yep. All right, you can go to Smooth Comp and just look up

Veterans Judo Open Charleston. Or you can go to our website, veteransjudousa.com and it'll take you to a link to there right there. So the tournament you can sign up on, we have a host hotel, which is only about five minutes from the venue. That's huge. And we get a discount.

You don't have to stay there like some other tournaments. You stay there if you want. You get a little cheaper of a rate. We're close by. We'll have an after party where we all kind of go to dinner after. Nice. It's right near the hotel and it's a great event.

Charleston's a great town. Is it in the nice area of, it's in Charleston? Yeah. So we're right outside. We're gonna be in Somerville, about 15 minutes outside of Charleston. But it's an easy commute. You know, airfare's super easy to get in and out

of Charleston International Airport. I think Jeff Lube flies right down there from New York. To visit if you've not been. Charleston is amazing. Wow, this is going to be good. So I'm going to try to bring all my, most of my guys. I mean, so there's a novice division, did you say? There's a novice division as well.

And look, here's the other thing. On smooth comp, like right now we have low numbers and every tournament we have all the way up until August we have low numbers. No one signs up till the end. So if anyone out there is hesitant about signing up because they don't see people in their divisions just give it a minute. Right? Because we always end up getting over a hundred competitors. People always come in. But for whatever reason people like to sign up at the end. Yeah, I think that's most tonics, right?

Yeah, because it gets me nervous all the way up until like a week before. I'm the last one to turn this on. I'm the last one to get on. Come on, Billy, you? I am, I'm gonna tell you. You gotta get Billy to sign up right now. It's fairly easy to get into.

You can fly probably direct out of New York, Newark, Philly. Charleston Airport's a nice little airport and the venue is only about 15 minutes from there. Yeah. And you do a camp also? Yeah so this year's camp is gonna be October 10th I believe it is. It's gonna be up at Doug Tonos in Chicago. Okay, Chicago's pretty nice. Which way are you in Chicago going? Yeah we have one each year in preparation for the world, and it's always great, man. And let me tell you what Doug, Toronto's Jim Malone has a ton of high level veteran players, man. I don't know what it is about there, but they're all attracted to his club.

He's been in the game a long time, been in the game a long time. We have him there. We've had him in Texas. We've had him out in Las Vegas. But this year, this year is Chicago. Worlds in Paris this year? Yeah, that's going to be the highest level in the world. Paris is easy for everyone to get to. What is it, the Veterans' Room? First week in November. I might be selected to go to that actually, to do the commentating. I did it last year for the...

Yeah, for sure. That was actually, to do the commentating. Yeah. I did it last year for the... Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. That was awesome, man. It was awesome. Yeah. You see some freaking natures out there. You see guys who are Olympic level guys coming in in their 40s, coming back, making a comeback. Right?

Yeah. You know what? Like, over in New York, man, it's high level, man. Same thing. I just thought... I was... I was in Latvia and I forget the guy's name and he's gonna kill me for forgetting it.

But I get paired up with him. I'm looking at his profile. He's like, oh, bronze medal in Sydney. Oh, that's great. But it was a tough match. I lost, but it was a tough match. But there's guys out there that still feel the urge to do it and want to keep doing it. And it can be as easy as you want or as hard as you want.

Here's a good question. There's guys like me who tried to make an Olympic team and got somewhat close and had relative success internationally. And when you're doing it at that level, right? And when you have a world ranking list, I was 43rd in the world and stuff, on the senior ranking list, and then everyone's like,

ah, Masters doesn't count, and all these young guys are talking shit. And then when you get to that level, when you're the Masters guy, I'm 40 now, and then it's like, you know, if I ever make a comeback, I'm gonna do it at the senior level because I still got it.

And it's very difficult psychologically to go Backwards almost right if you were on the senior world to I fall in those senior world championships There's a lot of guys like that guys who I competed with Back in the day who refused to do it like I was just talking to Leo Lopes you guys know Leo Lopes Yeah, yeah, it's like you know he's Kind of like that too, you know, so what do you say to those guys? So look I see both sides because when I fought the guy that that meddled in Sydney, I was like Why is he doing this? He you know, yeah kind of thing but then I

Think if you were to come back and try it you would have to do a big one Like he went over to Europe and did one of their big tournaments, so world championships or whatever, you'd realize that that competition level is a lot higher than you think it is. Yeah. And you can't sleep on them. I mean, I know the competition level is high, but you know, psychologically, if I lost to a 40-year-old, I'd be devastated, you know? That's why you got to train, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why you'd be getting back in shape even more. You know what? Because you don't want it. You know big Mike Perditis? Oh yeah, I know Mike Perditis. He competed at Worlds right at the senior level. Yeah.

And he's still doing, he does well too. He's done well over in Europe. So that'd be a great question for him. But I think it's just with some people, just the fire still exists. Yeah. And realistically, you have to, we have families, we have jobs and all that stuff. So to make another, you know, senior lead run is, you know, just not time consuming.

Can't do it. Yeah, it's just a time, yeah. You can't do it. All right, so the guys who are listening out there who are like, you know, I've never done a competition before, like, what do you say to those guys? And you know, I think growing veterans judo is your mission. So how do we do that? How do we get these guys back in the game?

So look, I think the perfect way is to start doing my tournaments. We have them twice a year. Again, August, at the end of August every year, and then the first week of January every year. And I think it's a good experience because from low rank to higher rank, you're going to be able to get some matches in.

You're going to get, get, get your fire going again, get used of how the system's done, you know, you know, cause we do weigh-ins the night before and like the whole process, just like you do at nationals or world championships and just being active with it. I can see the frustration if you did a regional tournament, like I did one of Ramon's tournaments with my students a few months ago. Yeah. And he puts on a great tournament, right? And tons of people. Tons of people. Mostly kids. Mostly kids. My students fought at seven. Yeah. Yeah. Terrible. And then you know that means I don't get home till 11 at night. So I can see the frustration part of that. With

our tournaments, you know, we're doing two a year now hopefully that grows in the future it'll be a nice easy fun way to get involved again right low injury risk it's gonna go fast you're gonna be around people who have all the same understandings that you do and you'll be able to get some great matches in so I think that's a perfect way. Well and I'd also say Ray that for the people that are chasing the higher level stuff or maybe used to be on the world tour and want to get back,

that one of the most important things to know is that you don't have to qualify on the points roster to be top 15 in the world to go to Worlds. If you're back in shape and you want to go and go to a high level tournament, you don't have to build your points back up like you do as a senior. You can get in shape and you want to go and go to a high level tournament, you don't have to build your points back up like you do as a senior, right? You can get in shape and show up to the world if you want, you know, just get it on. You know, there's a site out there, especially for the guys that have been doing this a little more.

And you can get through our site, but it's Judo Plus 30, a guy from Germany runs it And he has all the international tournaments throughout the year and there's you know without counting them There's probably 30 or 40 tournaments throughout the you know for just veterans you guys go to Japan a lot I went for the first time in a few weeks ago. I did yeah, there's some big tournaments over there. I know a guy That just he has a dojo out in Goshen Martinez, you know Mike Martinez, I mean such a common name, but like Mike Martinez, he's older guy He competed over there at a Masters tournament, you know, and he was like I couldn't believe how many older guys they were Yeah, I was just there for their last tournament a few weeks ago. There were 16 people my division Wow, you know, that's good

We don't get that at senior nationals over here, you know that's good. We don't get that at senior nationals over here, you know Yeah, I the US opens in two weeks. I got one person in my division Nah, well, so is there a women's division also? Yeah for sure. Yeah, absolutely You know, maybe I'll bring a team over to the thing. Yeah The Masters guys and be like, all right who who wants to go? We're gonna go. Put the band back together. Put the band back together. Yeah, I think, you know, I'm telling you, man,

I was saying somewhere, I think it's like one of the national events talking to the committee and the board, it's like the veterans division is like the most neglected. You guys know Bert Mackey? Bert Mackey. Yes. Now, of course, right?

He was like a team USA coach a few times that I was on like international trip and so we got you know time to talk and stuff and then like that guy should be treated I mean how many Masters Division Nationals has he won you know what no one knows about this guy you know he gives back the most to the program he runs a dojo he coaches the young kids goes to these events sends athletes to these things competes himself himself. He's a great example, but you get no love. So how can we change that? That's a great point. If USA Judo gave us some support, I would have never had to start Veterans Judo USA. We did that just so we can run some tournaments and give back. And I think, and there's some great guys at USA Judo, I just think they neglected for whatever

reason, but all anyone's looking for is some recognition. Yeah. Right? And a little support of our tournaments. Right? Yeah. They did it one year, when Worlds were in Poland a few years ago, they had, and I forget who the lady was that did it, but she put out a bunch of posts of how

everyone did and all that. And there was at least this recognition of how well did everyone. Everyone did. I have a friend down in Texas who got silver at last year's Worlds. And he's disheartened by the whole thing because there was zero, there's not one picture of him on USA Judo. And now he's switching, looks like he's switching over to BJJ tournaments instead. thing because there was zero there's not one picture of him on USA Judo and now he's switching looks like he's switching over to BJJ tournaments instead.

BJJ does a great job man I know guys in their 40s and 50s they compete in their division blue belt like whatever it is and they get on the podium and they look like superstars even if they're uncontested they get a huge medal big podium picture for sure you know a lot of community love no one's like ah you're in a shitty division now you're in a Masters division there's none of that going on yeah they do a better job that's what Veterans Judo USA is trying to do we're trying to bring that out and let people know and give people recognition for all the hard work they've put in now so what can I do

to help just spread the word aside from me competing in this thing, because I don't want to lose to a 40 year old. I think you'll do alright, brother. I'm not ready for that yet. Hey, the first thing is bringing your students down. That would be tremendous. That's really the thing. The reason we have these tournaments in different cities all year is just to get word out.

Because each city, like when I'm having it in Charleston, we're going have all the local guys in our area like South Carolina, North Carolina, Florida, Georgia, all those guys will come. Maybe get some like New Jersey, New Yorkers. When we do it in Texas, it's Texas, Oklahoma and all those guys come. Well we did one in Denver and I think if we can get the people from all those different places to show up at one tournament, it would be huge. Showing up to one tournament, it would be huge. Showing up to one tournament's big because it's just too diluted. These guys go over here, those guys go over there. I've had multiple times with my masters veterans guys

which show up and there's just non-contested and this guy wants to go, that guy wants to go and it's like, oh, if we all get everyone to one competition, I think it would be a huge deal. Yeah. And we're getting there, man. Like again, we had like 140 at our last tournament and that was out. Where was the last one?

Texas or something. But I think it's just spreading the word that there's an opportunity. Like being on your podcast is huge just to get word out. It's just cause people just don't know. And I know those guys just like me, there's just like Bill, just like you that out there that can still do it, still wanna train, still wanna compete, they just don't know about it.

Very true, very true. So what would you say about guys who are like, like you were saying something about on the list of things like me and Billy were chit chatting and getting started in veterans jud Judo just training wise. Like how do they find gyms? Like is there a gym that's more geared towards older dudes or is that not a thing? I don't know if that's a thing yet but I think it's more common. I think more and more old guys are showing up. Look anyone can always get a hold of me. Like Judo is my passion.

Again like Bill I'm towards the tail end of my business career and things are going well there and I have a lot of time for Judo. If they go to our site, veteransjudousa.com, they can get a hold of me. Between me, Brad Daniels, Hector Negron, we'll find you a gym close by to your place. Just like you, you would know people who everyone is. You know, it's like it's the biggest untapped resource, the veterans division. You know, because unlike the young athletes in the senior division who are absolutely broke from trying to make an Olympic team, you guys actually have the funds and the resources

to do these events and support USA Judo. It should be like the symbiotic thing where USA Judo helps you guys, you guys help them and you know, who better than guys who could say, oh, we're at the tail end of our career, we're winding down, we're getting rid of assets and focusing on Judo, who better than those guys to promote Judo as a whole, right? That for sure is what USA Judo needs to see.

You're 100% right, it's an untapped community. You know, if we're gonna go look at some of these. With a lot of resources that could put money into Judo, right, there's guys like us sitting on here that could change the whole financial dynamic of Judo, but there's got to be give and take, right? There's got to be a buy-in on both sides. And the board's got to get focused on marketing Judo to people other than the national team, right? I mean, running ads to educate and starting to integrate back into BJJ because there's a lot of guys training BJJ

that are over 30, 35. It's a huge part of the demographic, right? So that's how I got started back here when I got back in. There was no Judo club in Pueford so I had to join a BJJ club and I took 35 other guys out and then started a Judo club with it. So getting involved and knowing that there's some great regional training opportunity.

Ray and I just had a big huge day Saturday. We get one day a month all of the region around to come and train. So we're just trying to build it at the grassroots level. But it's out there with a little bit of education and people understanding what it is first. And then it's easy to get involved with even with your overseas travel. USA Geo has got a rep that will help you with your planning. And they make sure that you're on the roster that you have the right documentation. Once you go to the tournament Overseas right there's a list and they basically walk you through that so it's not this big unknown issue

You know and then there's always guys going like ready and stuff So they will put you with a group of people that make it very easy to go and have a great time doing Judo Yeah, the great times huge. I mean like jujitsu the average age is so old I mean, it's like deep into the 30s for sure, you know, so it's like why can't you don't be that? I mean, I get it, you know, like the teaching has to change you have to adapt training for a lot of these older guys They can't walk in 38 years old never having done any sport and like alright go do Vandori, right? So there needs to be like an education behind it too but yeah why why shouldn't it be i think it's just been ignored for so many

years that it's gonna take a minute to get gone like when i talked to the guys over in france they like right now france has like 12 tournaments a year for veterans all from beginner up to excellence and they're well organized organized and they said, I heard 10 years ago they weren't that way and they built it up. So I think by us having these tournaments each year, promoting nationals, promoting the US Open, President's Cup, get people involved in it, it'll slowly get to hold it and grow. Yeah. So if you're listening and you're above 30 and you do sport judo or even wrestling or BJJ August 23rd in Charlotte

Charleston Charleston sorry not too far from Charlotte it's pretty close right it's pretty close right and then for those of you guys who are listening who are interested where do they find you guys? veterans judo USA calm again, it's veterans judo USA calm Instagram get a hold of get us a hold of their get and I can get you any information I can get you set up for the tournament. I can help you with international stuff find you a club We're here to help and they can reach out to you personally on Instagram also. What's a good Instagram channel for that? So Instagram, it's Veterans Judo USA.

Yep, or I'm at Billy Gavigan, or I can even pass my cell out, just text me 843-252-3559, drop me a text message, and I'll get you in touch with who you need to talk to. Yeah, you can text Billy any time of the day, ask him what he's wearing, and he will respond to you. Yes you can text Billy anytime of the day ask him what he's wearing and he will respond to you. Yes sir, no excuses. That's awesome man thank you guys for being on I'm really actually very excited you know I spoke to you last year right and I

got pumped about the veterans idea and you know like all most things like you know I kind of forget or things kind of take over and but very excited to kind of help. Look if you could get some guys down there once you see one of our tournaments you'll see how exciting it is and how we're going to grow this for sure.