The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - #112: Aubrey Marcus - Open Relationships, Psychedelics, Human Optimization, Morning Routines & Owning The Day

Episode Date: May 1, 2018

On this episode we sit down with Aubrey Marcus Whitney Miller. Aubrey is the CEO of ONNIT, a recently published author and the host of the Aubrey Marcus Podcast. Whitney Miller is a former Miss US 2012, Glory Kickboxing reporter and model. On this episode we discuss what it takes to own the day, psychedelic medicine, open relationships, morning routines and how to optimize your days to improve your life.  To connect with Aubrey Marcus click HERE To connect with Whitney Miller click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE This episode is brought to you by WOO FOR PLAY  Even Better Sex. Imagine That. WOO FOR PLAY is the all natural and organic coconut love oil that is changing the way we have sex. With only 4 all natural ingredients WOO is the perfect personal lubricant to spice up your sex life.  All Him & Her Listeners will receive 20% off your entire order plus free shipping when using promo code HIMANDHER at checkout. Go to www.wooforplay.com to try WOO FOR PLAY.  The Propel Co:Labs Fitness Festival is a one-of-a-kind fitness experience that combines the hottest workouts in the country with live musical performances alongside more than 40 mash-up workouts led by the industry’s top instructors and studios.  Come join me at Propel’s Co:Labs Fitness Festival in LA, May 5-6 at Quixote Studios in West Hollywood. Head to www.propelcolabsLA.com/skinnyconfidential and use code THESKINNYCONFIDENTIAL10 for $10 off a ticket to the festival.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Okay, this episode has a lot going on. And you know what else has a lot going on? Woo for Play. So we can finally talk about Woo again on the show. And we first introduced Woo to this audience on our episode with Emily Morse from the popular podcast Sex with Emily. That was episode 99. And if you guys haven't had a chance to listen, you should. It's spicy, sexy, and has a lot of juice. Anyway, we let you guys know about Woo for Play on that show, which is an all-natural coconut oil-based lubricant that Michael and his partners created. I definitely helped test it out a time or 10 too. Anyway, I went along for the ride, if you know what I mean. So to give you backstory here,

we had to stop talking about Woo on this podcast because so many of you went and got the product and it actually almost put them out of business, which is so nuts. Yeah. We were selling so much lube that we literally almost went under. So if you heard that show, you know, like I said, it's an all natural lube that's made up of four main ingredients. It's organic coconut oil, beeswax, a little stevia, and a tiny bit of vanilla. It's kind of like all the things everyone loves. You should also know that it's edible and basically it just makes sex better.

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for this audience. It was promo code SKINNY for 20% off the first purchase and free shipping. That code still works for anyone who hasn't tried the product before. So go ahead and use that one as well. But when we created the first batch, we created it in the summer. So it got a little hard due to the natural coconut oil in the winter. So we went back to the drawing board, listened to some feedback and reformulated the product with some liquid coconut oil as well to make it perfect. We want things to get hard, but not our lube. All right, guys. So like Michael said, we have a new promo code for all TSC listeners and for those who have already used the first one. And that code is HIMANDHER for 20% off your purchase plus free shipping. So go to

wooforplay.com and enter promo code HIMANDHER at checkout. Again, that's wooforplay.com, promo code HIMANDHER for 20% off and free shipping. Enjoy. I know you'll love it. Okay, so I want to let you guys know that Michael and I will be at the Propel Co Labs Fitness Festival, and we would love to meet you. Let's hang out. There's going to be complimentary hair braiding, guided meditations, massages, tons of Propel

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She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her. Aha! You guys are in an open relationship. Practice open relationship.

Mm-hmm. How the fuck did this come about? What's the story here? I need to like let's dive into this whitney finally got a lover that she really liked and someone that she liked and i found that out like what's your reaction like your physical emotional reaction so my physical reaction is i think that i'm gonna vomit i think i'm immediately gonna vomit there's a pain that feels like all the swords in the fucking armory are stabbing me

right in between where my chest is and where my stomach is and i don't know if i can walk and i don't and i just take a knee and i start kind of dry heaving and i don't know if i'm gonna pass out because i'm a little bit dizzy and then eventually i get up and then i think of her having sex doggy style and it's all over again and then i think of and then i think of some other thing oh did he spank oh my god then it's again back on the ground dry heaving crawling crawling around praying to the universe that maybe this pain will end and that lasted i was away from whitney during that time and and that that for like three days. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. If you are new to the show, thanks for joining. That clip was from

our guest of the show today, Aubrey Marcus. Aubrey came on the show with his fiancee, Whitney Miller, and it was like no other conversation we have ever had on this show. In this episode, we discuss psychedelics, open relationships, morning routines, and optimization. For those of you who are new to the show, hi, I'm Lauren Everts. I'm the creator of The Skinny Confidential. It's a blog, brand, book, and podcast. And I am Michael Bostic. I'm an entrepreneur and business operator, most recently the CEO of Dear Media, a new kind of podcast network. Welcome back to the show, everybody. Hi, you're extra deep today.

I'm in deep. Okay, so before we get into this super juicy episode, I wanted to let you guys know that I picked a winner from last week's podcast. I did a giveaway for the Kristen Cavallari podcast. It was a bunch of beauty items and the winner of that is Brooke Kowalowski. Am I saying that right, Michael?

Kowalowski, I think. Kowalowski. Okay, her handle on Instagram is at B-R-O-O-K-E-K-O-V-A-L-E-S-K-I. That's long. I hope I said it right. So we'll do another giveaway at the end of this episode. So make sure you listen to this one through, which you're going to want to, because we talk about open relationships and it gets really, really intense. Yeah. So like Lauren said, we are going to dive right into this interview because it's a little longer than our typical interviews. We cover

a ton of ground here. So this is a super interesting podcast episode. We have Aubrey Marcus on the show and he is the CEO of Onnit, which he describes as a total human optimization experience. They primarily sell supplements and Aubrey started the company and he was super smart in the beginning because he grew a ton of his business using podcasts and also by partnering with Joe Rogan. Aubrey has a new book out that I just finished and it's called Own the Day, Own Your Life. We get into that in the episode. He's a super interesting guy and he's the CEO of a successful company. He's an author and he also hosts the great podcast called Aubrey Marcus Podcast. Outside of being a successful entrepreneur, podcaster, and author, Aubrey is also a proponent

of raising awareness for psychedelic medicines through programs like maps.org and the Hefter Institute. We fully dive into psychedelics on the show and the potential benefits of psychedelics when used as a medicine instead of recreationally. What was really a curveball for this interview is this. Aubrey and his fiance, Whitney Miller, are in a completely open relationship. Yes, you guys heard that right. Completely open relationship, meaning they're able to see and date other people with the full blessing from one another. So when Aubrey showed up with Whitney, we had to have her on the show to dive into it. We were actually planning on just having Aubrey. Whitney was there and we

invited her on the show because we wanted that him and her aspect. We have never really had a conversation on this podcast around psychedelics and open relationships. So this is new. Having the conversation with actual practitioners and people we know to be successful in their own rights was really interesting. And I think you guys are going to find it super, super interesting yourself. So without further ado, here's Aubrey Marcus and Whitney Miller. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. All right. We're here with Aubrey Marcus and his fiance, Whitney Miller. And we're going to have a really interesting conversation. We're going to jump into a lot of topics that we don't

typically jump into. And I'm super pumped. You've been talking about it for a while. I need to get to the bottom of a lot of things here. There's a lot of questions. We can't promise the bottom, but we'll start digging and we'll see where we go. Yeah. We can get you somewhere at least. Yeah. This is going to be interesting. I, we can get you somewhere at least. Yeah. This is going to be interesting. I'm going to, you know.

So you have a new book coming out and we're going to obviously jump on that. It's called Own the Day, Own Your Life. What can people expect from the book? Well, people can expect a process. A process of information, 300 clinical academic references all put together to try and design one badass optimized day. And whoever you are, whether it's someone like me or someone like Whitney or someone who never hits the gym, there's gonna be something in there for everyone to show you what a day could look like

if you just went step-by-step from the morning when you're hydrating, getting light, and moving to set your circadian rhythm and rehydrate to how to use all the natural doctors we have like sunlight, breath, cold, heat, sex, sleep, movement, all of these things. How to basically apply that to the human operating manual so we can get the absolute most out of our life and not just the most performance but the most enjoyment as well like really get to the bottom of our fears and get to the roots of the things that are preventing us from being who we're really capable of being and living that life that at the end of our days we look back and say fuck yeah you know i killed it i did everything i could and that's really the goal can you do those days when you're on vacation in la right now you know there's always there's always things you can do

you know in the morning you can always go and the first thing, hydrate with a little bit of salt water and some lemon. Like we went to Erewhon, picked up a few supplies. We had that ready to go. We went immediately out into the light, you know, out of my patio, moved around a little bit. So I got the first critical part of the morning routine done, even here on vacation. And then the next part, yeah, I'm going to take a shower.

And then it's turning that shower nozzle part yeah i'm going to take a shower and then it's turning that shower nozzle cold which is going to reduce reduce your chronic anxiety and chronic stress and always you know also pattern that willpower the ability to push yourself into something that's challenging that you know is good for you but you know is going to be a little uncomfortable so yeah i mean a lot of this stuff you can do pretty much anywhere because it's relying on things that are very common very easy to to use. These aren't exotic biohacks, you know, these are pretty simple things. So I'm super excited to read it. And typically, and I apologize for this, I like to read the books before we interviewed the authors, but we,

you know, just came out, so we haven't gone to it, but for sure we have it. We both have it. Michael's a big reader. Going to, and I'm super pumped to do it. For those of you, for those of that out there who are maybe unfamiliar with your work, how would you, how would you introduce yourself at this point? Cause you're an interesting dude, man. You've done a lot of different things and CEO of Onnit, author, podcaster, speaker. Like how would you?

Fiance. Hey. Most importantly. At this point, what's the, like, what's the talking point introduction? I mean, I think you kind of hit it i mean you can describe the things but you know if i really describe myself like what is the essential aubrey you know i'm someone who's willing to look into the shadows to find truth and then bring that truth out and whether that truth becomes a product or an idea or a book or something else, a podcast show or something else like that. I'm someone who will relentlessly go into the shadows of my own psyche and the

shadows of the world and find something valuable to bring back. So in that regard, you know, that's another way to describe kind of who I am. So you're an entrepreneur, obviously CEO of Onnit, which is an amazingly successful company. For those of you who haven't checked it out, check it out. And typically a businessman. How did you get into the podcast space? Want to start writing a book and in the public eye, like what, what made you want to do that? I always knew that I was going to do something like that. You know, I was always thinking about things in a different way. I always felt like I had a perspective and I had a take and I had an understanding that I needed to bring forth. And I was like super depressed and frustrated before the podcast and before books and before on it and before I had a social platform or anything,

because I felt like I wasn't able to give any of that. Now, obviously I'm way, you know, way smarter than I was then with my ideas. But even then I knew I had something to share. I knew I had some value to bring and now it's just the fruition of that where I have so many different ways and channels that I can reach people so you know I'm living my dream life Whitney do you do and practice his best day um not always no because I'm a po, particularly when it comes to cold water. It's really hard for me to turn that nozzle just a little bit. I know he says it's just willpower.

It takes that one second to turn the nozzle to cold. He's got to get in naked with you and just turn it himself. Make him do that. Oh, but he does. Okay. And that's a total backfire. I hate that because now I get stressed out to take a shower because we have a big shower at home with two heads.

I'm like, stay on your side of the shower. Don't cross the midline. She has shower PTSD. Every time I'm closing my eyes to wash my hair, I'm like, oh, hell. You know what? I did cryotherapy today. That's a good way to get it in. I do like cryo.

I'm obsessed with that. I feel like it fights inflammation a lot. For sure does. So I can do cryo and I actually like cold plunges it's more difficult for me for some reason to do the shower but we did just get a big cooler delivered to our garage the other day i like it i'm into that yeah how did you guys meet just so the audience can really kind of grasp your relationship so we met um almost over six years ago and i was miss texas at the time and i was looking for sponsors to go to miss united states and my trainer said hey there's this new company called

on it opening up why don't you go meet with the ceo and at the time this is when on it was just beginning so it was probably 10 people maybe less less like crammed into this baby loft and like they had no room to do anything so i'm there with you know i have long blonde hair at the time like pageant patty to the max and i have my binders and i go in and he's in pajamas probably still hungover or drunk definitely drunk from the night before his cold shower yeah he hasn't had his cold shower yet this is the day after his 31st birthday and he's like talking to me yeah sure whatever you want but we have to do a workout first oh but now we need to go do lunch oh but now we need to go do dinner to see how well you fit with the brand and then like three months later we were living together

we were very picky at that point you know we couldn't just we couldn't just work with anybody off the streets you know we had to choose our brand ambassadors wisely yeah what has the evolution been like you said you guys were in a loft i mean now it's it's huge yeah we had a loft above a little boutique it was probably 600 square feet and now maybe five employees when whitney met and now we have over 180 employees, five yoga studios, the gym, a jujitsu studio, um, martial arts facility, and you know, tens of thousands of square feet of space and warehouse space. And we're shipping internationally all over the world. And it's a, it's a real movement at this point. We just had a rich role in here who I know you've recently

spoke to. And I listened to the podcast that you guys did. And I thought both of you hit something that was super interesting and it's a strategy you use with Onnit which you built a lot of Onnit through podcasting and I wanted to see I wanted to know like if you touch on that a little bit because I don't think a lot of people realize how powerful the right podcasts can be and what you can do with podcasts after they're still you know companies are coming around trying it they're doing the old you know radio reads but when you get a host that can really speak to a brand authentically and weave it into their story like it is in my life with advertising one of the most impactful types of advertising that you can do well people's bullshit detectors are getting better and better and better and people are being able to sniff out an advertisement that somebody got paid

for and just an authentic endorsement. And really, you know, podcasts allow you to the opportunity to blend the two because the host really controls pretty much what they say. So what we do with all the hosts, we just give them a bunch of our stuff and help them out with all the advice and techniques and how to use it and how we can just benefit their life so our first step is like how can we be of service to you because we know that if we can actually be of service to the host life it's not just going to be a better commercial read that's going to sound more authentic they're going to talk about it on the show they're going to talk about it with other people they're going to recommend it to people who are coming to them as guests saying oh man i'm having this problem and then they're going to know that they have this solution available. And so it becomes more of

a conversation. And then when it's a conversation, you know, you really feel like a podcast host is your friend when you're listening to them. And when your friend is recommending something, it's a very powerful thing. So, you know, we don't, we try not to give people canned reads and tell them exactly what to say we just basically say talk about whatever you like talk about the cool experiences you've had with on it products or on it philosophies and just go with that yeah and you kind of hit the nail on the head where i don't think people have a problem with endorsements they may have an issue with inauthentic advertisements right an endorsement if you like a product like if i'm an on it user like there's i don't think

the listener or the reader or the viewer has any issue with you endorsing it's when they like you said their bullshit meter and they look and say okay there's no way aubrey uses this stuff or no way lauren uses this stuff or whitney uses stuff like that's when they're like that's when they get pissed yeah like when you see shack and akiya yeah it's like man shack's not driving i think it's all about telling a story i love how you don't give anyone a script i think it's all about telling a story. I love how you don't give anyone a script. I think that's amazing. I feel like as an influencer, I'm not an actress.

That's not what I signed up to be. I didn't sign up to read a script. So when someone gives me a script, I'm like, no, I want to tell how I've used it and implemented it in my own life. I think that's really smart. Okay, let's do kind of a plot twist here. I want to talk about psychedelic medicine that's really smart. Okay. Let's do kind of a plot twist here. I want to talk about psychedelic medicine. Yeah. Great. Fun. So I have a little mushroom on my, on my

jacket right now. Super cute. So for people who are unfamiliar with psychedelics, how would you, what would you tell them to distinguish the difference between what we would classify as like drugs and medicinal what would you call drugs or what would you how would you describe this well i think you know there's obviously technical descriptions about the interaction with the brain but in general you know a psychedelic medicine will bring you to a higher state of consciousness whereas a recreational drug will typically bring you to a lower state of consciousness because it's that middle layer of consciousness where a lot of the suffering lies it's where the mind is you know cycling through all of these fears and all these struggles and all these challenges and all

everything that's going on in waking life that makes waking life like regular life so difficult so we seek an escape we seek some way to change that pattern and there's some very fun ways you know i talk about drinking a glass of wine in the book that is a great way to kind of change your inner mental state and get a little bit more relaxed but ultimately that's not bringing you to a higher state of consciousness that's off you know often lowering your state of consciousness because keep doing it and see what happens you know see how really intelligent you get at this third bottle of wine you know what i mean whereas you know a psychedelic medicine when used correctly is going to elevate your level of consciousness can allow you to have greater insight into your life into your past life in a past trauma into future goals into the processes

that are going on so it's less of an escape but more of a solution to try and figure out how you can make your waking state even better even more productive even more full of love make your relationship stronger i mean it's a really a tool to help make you better so can you tell us a story or a time that you know you had an experience with psychedelics or i know you've done what do you call a spirit walk so spirit quest spirit quest yeah so i'm really like novice here but can you explain what that process was and what that experience was it's a vision quest at spirit quest sanctuary so it's not very confusing but yeah a vision quest is the traditional ceremony where you basically spend a lot of time in nature typically with some kind of guide or

some kind of shaman um who takes you out and you experience a psychedelic concoction of their choosing and their specialty and you interact with the forces of yourself and the forces of nature for me i came in as a 18 year old staunch atheist trying to you know take down the falsehoods of capital R religion. I thought it was all a bunch of bullshit. And, but I went out to do this vision quest and went out in the mountains. And who introduced you to this? This was actually through my father. Wow. Okay.

Yeah. And, and I took this concoction, psychedelic brew, consisting largely of mushrooms and felt my body evaporate and something else remain which i would at this point just call consciousness and consciousness remain in a disembodied form and i looked around in this disembodied form and i went oh shit i got a lot of things wrong here like i have to rethink a lot about my spiritual understanding and that kind of set me on a path of realization towards many many different things in my life and i've just constantly sought direct spiritual knowledge like direct physical understanding of who i am of the universe of whatever you might want to call god which is a really challenging word to use because people have used it in so many different ways or love which is also another really challenging word because people have used that in so many different ways or love, which is also another

really challenging word because people have used that in so many ways and so many incorrect ways and just really try to get to the bottom of what, you know, what truth is for me and what truth is universally. So would you recommend this to everyone? Would you recommend it to a certain person, someone that's gone through trauma? You know, you can't recommend this to everybody. This is a path that someone has to choose and a path that someone has to really be ready for. And you also have to have a great environment to do it in. You know, that's the challenging part. I mean, unfortunately, we live in a day and time where psychedelic medicines are still illegal. Now, MAPS, Multidisciplinary Association of Psychedelic Studies,

a nonprofit organization, they are pushing to have MDMA-assisted psychotherapy legal by 2021. The Hefter Institute has phase two trials completed for depression and anxiety. Looks like they're going to hopefully have psilocybin legal by 2022, 2023. We don't have to wait too long. And then you can obviously go to South America to drink ayahuasca. There's options available, but it's hard to just carte blanche recommend anything right now because there's very few good providers and there's very few

good opportunities. So I try to steer away from any kind of hard recommendations and just say, look, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for these medicines. And I think Whitney can probably say the same thing. We wouldn't be who we are. We wouldn't be able to be of service to ourselves, to our relationship, or the world in any way, shape, or form if it wasn't for these experiences. But nonetheless, as much as I wish I could say, hey, everybody go here, I can't. Touching on psilocybin and MDMA, what are the, in your opinion, the direct benefits for each of those as you call them medicines? Whitney, why don't you take this one?

I would say for MDMA specifically, it's obviously very heart opening. So if there's any past childhood trauma or trauma from past relationships, or if you want to to get clarity you can do it as a couple as well which we've done before it's basically like years of therapy in a couple of hours and it takes the the lenses of fear and jealousy and hurt off so you're fully speaking to one another from like a higher perspective and then mushrooms is more of like a, for me, it's more like grounding, you know, and you don't have as much of the heart opening, but you have the vision so you can, it can bring up memories from your past and, and you can actually see it happening in your mind.

Yeah. And in the clinical research, so MDMA has shown remarkable ability to reduce post-traumatic stress, even in treatment-resistant cases. Two out of three people have been cured with MDMA-assisted psychotherapy that had basically no hope with the traditional medical model, from first responders to veterans to childhood abuse victims. So trauma for MDMA is probably the number one indication. Although, like Whitney says, you know, if you're going through something as a couple or if you just want to, you know, kind of release a lot of the, you know, minor traumas that you might have, it's still incredibly valuable. Psilocybin in the medical model has been shown to alleviate depression, anxiety, and some really interesting indications on reducing addictive behaviors as well. I'm super interested in ayahuasca. There's something that's pulling me towards it.

So I would like to know more about that. And I would like to know about the whole entire process and how you can find someone that actually knows what they're doing. They call it a shaman, right? They do. And that's the thing. You have to be careful about where you go.

Right. You know, even for me, I mean, I've had it. i've done it 11 times and obstinate 17 times now i think and there's only one person that i would go to and i've been to multiple and it's just very difficult to find that person so it's very important to find somebody in the right set and setting otherwise the entire experience can be completely different and it can leave you worse off than before really yeah it's it's super important to you're basically doing psychic surgery and ayahuasca is a very intense form of psychic surgery you're it's working on both levels for one dmt is one of the is probably the most powerful psychedelic compound on the planet

they call it the spirit molecule for a reason. So it's going to give you access to what appears to be the realm beyond living consciousness. So the visions are incredible. The insight is incredible. You'll talk to guides or even talk to God or talk to your ancestors and crazy things like that will happen while at the same time time the vine itself is very

purgative so it's going to work through your body and you actually feel it working through your organs and you're going to purge either through vomit or through shit in your pants and so it's going to get a lot of stuff out of your body physically so that your physical body will mirror the mental you know purge that you're actually going through and the clarity that you're going to get. But it's a very intense process. And if the provider isn't skilled enough to basically hold that amount of energy, they can lose control of the ceremony or they can lose control of the dosing and the brew and things can get a little squirrely. Or if they have any ill intentions or selfish intentions, that will actually go through because you're it's like using unclean instruments to do the surgery so it'll leave you

with an infection or a residue i mean if you want to take that metaphor all the way through so that's the challenging part about ayahuasca it's it's absolutely incredible it's harrowing it's terrifying it's life-changing when it goes well. But at the same time, you have to choose the provider carefully. So do you just go and drink it? Can you guys explain exactly what you do for someone that has no idea? Yeah. So ayahuasca is a combination of a couple of different plants. One is a vine that grows natively in a lot of tropical areas. They actually can grow it in Hawaii now as well, but it comes typically from like Peru, Ecuador, Brazil, in those areas.

And this vine contains a very potent MAOI, which is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor, which is something that prevents the breakdown of certain compounds. And one of the compounds it prevents the breakdown of is DMT. So they pound that vine out and they brew it in this giant cauldron with a bunch of leaves that are very high in DMT because DMT is in almost every single

living thing. I think actually every single living thing, but it's in higher concentration in certain plants. And some of these plants like chacruna, opoyaje, wambisaisa they have a very high concentration relatively of dmt so you mix the mix the plants with the vine and then you get an orally active version of dmt that lasts like six to eight hours so you're served in this cup and it smells like spicy earthy dirt it tastes so horrible like even the talking about it makes me nauseous yeah so you drink this cup of spicy earthy dirt and then you know you go around in the circle and typically the shaman will then at that point blow out the candle and you'll be waiting in darkness and if you're in peru you know you'll have the jungle sounds around you and it's this really supernatural vibe already and

then slowly the igoros come in which are the songs of the plants that the shaman will sing with with the chikapas which is their bundle of leaves they use as an instrument and you use it to kind of move energy through the ceremony and guide you with their song and they'll start using the chikapa and then you're basically on this five- ride facing your deepest fears, confronting your own death and mortality and whatever you're most terrified of surrendering, surrendering, surrendering until and purging until you come out the other side. Hopefully a lot lighter. Well, I will say this. We have a really good friend of ours who has his whole life struggled with weight loss got up to about 300 pounds um you know was doing a lot of surgeries and you just met him in the

hallway oh yes okay yeah and you would you would never know now and he did ayahuasca and he said he had a complete breakthrough because he figured out his relationship to food and he figured out why he couldn't like you know why he had to eat certain things and why you know his emotional connection to food and by doing like by doing the ayahuasca trip he completely changed like he's now down what 120 pounds and he's just you know completely happy and good shape and it's crazy like he's he had tried everything every diet everything how has it affected you guys's relationship to do that together is it something you recommend that couples do together like should i go with michael or should i leave

his ass and go to peru by myself um both actually the first time i did it was without ob so i i went down for my first time i did seven ceremonies in nine days which i would not recommend to anybody ever again a lot yeah it was ridiculous usually they do um series of like three to four with a day in between of each and that's the entire retreat um but yeah the first time I went was without him and for me that was really beneficial because it was I wasn't down there for him I didn't want to worry about his trip and if he was throwing up or he was having a hard time and I didn't want to have to think, have any sort of energy focused on him. I wanted it all on me and this was my journey. But then also we've gone down together to do it

too and that can be just as amazing. But even then, I prefer to not sit next to him in ceremony. It's because you really truly want all of the energy and focus on yourself because it is it. It's a difficult thing to hear, you know, my love going through a hard time, even though, you know,

it's beneficial in the end. So it's just kind of making sure you have your own journey and your own process. And also if someone's your comfort and you're going through a hard time, you know, it's you, you kind of need to go through the hard time, you know, like you don't want to shelter yourself. You don't want your security blanket necessarily with you. You want to brace head first into the cold, just like the buffaloes. When the storm's coming, they tilt their horns

straight to the eye of it and march straight through it. Cause you know, you're going to get through it faster, you know? And that's kind of the idea with some of these heavier medicines is you really want to go there for you and and and face whatever demons you need to face and make it through the other side whereas other medicines like mdma or maybe uh wachuma which is the san pedro cactus man that's amazing to do with somebody you love because then it's going to be you interacting with them with laughter as full as it's ever been in your heart and love as bright as it's ever shined through your eyes. And you're going to be able to see each other in a different way. And honestly, I don't know if me and Whitney would be sitting here right now if it wasn't for a Wachuma journey that we had down in South America,

where we both saw each other in the medicine standing at the beach and saw each other as our true self beyond all the own fears and delusions that being in this open relationship up to that point had created and kind of created a divide for us and then we saw each other in truth and we were like oh man we still really really love each other and um so you know we might not even be sitting here if it wasn't for the medicine well one thing's for sure and you know i'm probably getting trolled for saying this but you know the current drugs and the pharmaceuticals they're not i don't think they're working i think you know we've had more problems than ever and

it's it's it's not doing anything in my opinion to get rid of or solve a lot of these issues with depression anxiety trauma it's just in my opinion, a lot of times it makes it worse. Sure. Yeah. And the thing about this, I have a page up. It's called The Cure Is Near. And if you go to thecureisnear.com, it's just a charity campaign fundraiser. But it has a lot of the information out there.

And the thing is, the pharmaceutical model right now is for managing and treating symptoms. And it will keep you lifelong managing and treating those symptoms. Whereas these models, like you said, for your friend who understand his relationship to food, the psychedelics work because they're not managing the symptoms, they're actually getting to the root cause. Breakthrough.

Why are you traumatized? Why are you afraid? Why are you addicted? Why are you depressed? Why are you anxious? Okay, are you afraid? Why are you addicted? Why are you depressed? Why are you anxious? Okay, let's apply the right amount of understanding and truth and love and whatever else you need to do to fix that thing. So you're actually are creating a cure rather than just symptom management, symptom avoidance. So it's a whole different, it's a whole different paradigm.

So what about afterwards? So you leave, you leave Peru. What happens? Is there like this epiphany? a whole different paradigm so what about afterwards so you leave you leave peru what happens is there like this epiphany i mean you're having epiphanies the entire time but just as being in the jungle and drinking the medicine is very transformational you have to take time afterwards like i always take three or four days if you can to not just jump back into work and home and relationship because you have to integrate all of this new information and all of these new learnings because if you don't do that then it's like you can come back and everything's just a little bit haywire like you're just on a different level than

anybody else that's around you and it's just a little bit chaotic so taking some time to fully digest everything and integrate it is just as important it's like going to a gym and getting a super hard workout or going to an actual surgery like if you just get your boobs done and you hit the bench press and do a you know barry's boot camp like don't do that you're gonna probably have fucked up boobs you know what i mean like if you're getting your psyche worked on and you're going immediately back into emotional challenge emotionally challenging things there's going to be problems that you have you need to ease back in you need to treat your recovery you know properly so you touched on this a little and i think this is going

to be really interesting for this audience you guys are in an open relationship practice open relationship how the fuck did this come about what's the story here i need to like let's dive into this well yeah i mean so the story basically is you know i as i said i've been doing these plants and doing my own spiritual exploration since i was 18 so that's almost 20 years now and through that process i've started to understand what you know love is truly what love is, truly what love is, and capital L love is. And that love to me is unpossessive. It's a love that doesn't own the other person. It's a love that genuinely, no matter what, whether you get the credit or not, wants the person you love to have the greatest happiness possible. That is clean, pure love. And that's the type of love that i want to have for anybody that i'm with now for

most of my life i was also under the paradigm however that if i was doing my job and if i was enough of a man that my woman would never want to be with another man you know because this whole kind of caveman paradigm of like there's one lion who's ahead of the there's one lion who's ahead of the pride and that lion who's ahead of the pride and that lion fights all other rivals to the death and as long as that lion wins then all the rest of the lionesses are just cool having sex with that lion the rest of their life you know because they're just only attracted to the alpha and that was that was my mind state and that's reinforced over and over again in male popular culture and then i read a book by so you know i had a

relationship before whitney and you know i would get we would have we'd i would get to play but you know my girl at that point named caitlin she couldn't do anything and that was because because that was this that was like your that was your rule or that was that was my role yeah it was my understanding and then i read this book called sex at Dawn by Dr. Chris Ryan, who's now become a good friend. Well, y'all split and then we got together and then we both read Sex at Dawn. We both read Sex at Dawn. Because we were together for two years, completely monogamous. And then read Sex at Dawn.

Then we read Sex at Dawn. And I still had that paradigm when I was with Whitney. But also knew, I knew that I wanted to experience different things Whitney had always wanted to experience different things no matter who what lover she was with but I couldn't you know without the understanding that maybe humans were different than lions or humans were different than gorillas you know nothing made sense then I read Sex at Dawn and Whitney read Sex at dawn pretty much simultaneously. And that showed how actually in tribal human sexuality, it was a lot different that humans, you know,

human females are actually built also like human males to have multiple sexual partners. And that's just how we are naturally designed. Yeah. Evolutionary history. Exactly. And understanding that I was like, Oh shit. It was like that moment i

first did psychedelics when i didn't believe in god and then i did psychedelics and didn't believe in spirit and i did psychedelics my body evaporated i was like oh shit i got a lot of things wrong i read that book and it made perfect sense from you know female copulatory vocalization why they're so loud well that's to attract other people and let them know that they're ready for sex because generally one man isn't going to even be satisfactory and all of these different other factors and natures and i was like damn it like i've really got this whole thing wrong and that and that really opened up the possibility like all right from my understanding of love and from my understanding of human sexuality what makes the most sense philosophically is an open

relationship and that's when i kind of presented that to whitney and uh she wasn't exactly that stoked about it hell no how did he what are you talking about like how does he present that are you guys drinking i need to know the story of this presentation you know what i think we should have sex with other people um no actually it started off because we read that book and then we started talking about it. Like just talking about what if. And it wasn't even because we weren't acting on it. We weren't doing

anything about it. It was just like, okay, hypothetically, if this was a situation, how would you feel about this? And even then we weren't doing anything. And then he decided that it was something that he really wanted to try and i didn't think i wanted to so we split up moved out of the house the whole thing i went down to peru and then went on like a full three-month backpacking trip and like during that

time i was obviously this was on my mind and it just became more normal for me to think about it so then when i got back he was seeing somebody um when i returned and then we talked about getting back together but it was we were getting back together under an open relationship and so i was like all right let's game on because for me it was i didn't have an answer if i could do it or not do it if i wanted to do it or not do it so i wanted to know so let's walk through the beginning emotions right because you guys both went through this initially together like jealousy what happens when other people start coming into the mix like how do you how do you navigate that i imagine in the beginning that has to be a challenge oh it's hell yeah you don't even know i know like there's there's ayahuasca hell right there's five hours

in the darkness confronting your fears spiders exploding out of your eyes sliding down a vine of thorns but you know what it's all vision an idea but it's all a vision in the end but but this this is this is actual genuine like the deepest pain that i think i've ever felt has been brought through this and probably the biggest challenge the most learning the best psychedelic i've ever done has been this open relationship there's been nothing that's been a greater teacher because it's hard yeah but who's sticking their toe in first like you guys are like okay we're in an open relationship like who's you're looking like at each other who's gonna go first so whitney had to whitney had to bear the brunt of it first why am

i not surprised because when she when she came back in i already had another lover and so the the table stakes at the time was like i love you i want to be with you but i have this other lover and i'm going to still keep seeing her so here's if you want in this is you know this is the conditions of the game and whitney to her credit you know took that head on and it wasn't easy and it was it was hard and we had to have help we had people we would talk to we had a you know a psychiatrist who's familiar with open relationship we relied on him heavily and you know it's funny i was i was kind of like i was kind of a dick too then as well while i was sensitive in some regards i was kind of like what do you mean when she would get all flustered i'd be like

what do you mean i wanted to like burn the house down well so when she would get a yeah flustered seems like a understatement flustered that's so cute I can't imagine this I can't imagine me and describing yeah Lauren's a little bit flustered and I'm like literally I'd be sleeping with like a gun under the pillow like I'm gonna watch out here yeah so when Whitney was triggered you know yeah I would I would eventually i would sometimes be insensitive and be like what do you mean like we agreed to this this is our agreement i'm not following anything outside of the agreement blah blah blah but i didn't realize until whitney finally got a lover that she really liked and someone that she liked and i found that out and when i had to take it on

myself this was like eight months to a year later like what's your reaction like your physical emotion okay so my physical reaction is i think that i'm gonna vomit i think i'm immediately gonna vomit there's a pain that feels like all the swords in the fucking armory are stabbing me right in between where my chest is and where my stomach is and i don't know if i can walk and i don't and i just take a knee and i start kind of dry heaving and i don't know if i'm gonna pass out because i'm a little bit dizzy and then eventually i get up and then i think of her having sex doggy style and it's all over if i were to think of him too that's the position i would think of yeah and then i think of and then

i think of some other thing oh did he spank her oh my god then it's again back on the ground dry heaving crawling crawling around praying to the universe that maybe this pain went and that lasted i was away from whitney during that time and and that that lasted for like three days wait did you fuck with him because i would fuck with michael i would be like it's fine pass the ketchup like did you like screw with him or were you like a little nicer? I think I was definitely a little nicer. Did you tell him or did he find out through someone else? No, no, no, no. I told him.

And that's what, you know, that's something that we, that we do. We talk about it. So this is out in the open. This is not like, you know, a lot of people have the don't ask, don't tell policy, right? Like that's common. But this is like a full, like you guys talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. If there's somebody that we're interested in i would go like if i was interested in somebody i would go to aubrey and be like hey there's this guy i might be interested in seeing

i don't really know but i would like you know some time to at least explore and and see what that is and how much say do each of you have like if you find somebody can she say yes or no or is it well we used to have more of that. And it only leads to further resentment. Because really what we understand here is resentment is the monster that eats love. And what we really are responsible for is helping each other achieve the greatest happiness possible. You know, like that's our commitment to each other. Like what is going to have you live the most fulfilled life? So we've both in certain

points you know put the veto on a certain person unnecessarily you know and that veto has led to resentments it's led to unnecessary conditions that eventually we've been like you know what that was stupid that was my own ego worried about something that happened um you know but you know if there is something that maybe we see that the other person doesn't see we can mention that and talk about it but you really got to trust the other person to you know make the make the wisest decision otherwise the more rules you have typically the more resentment builds and the more shit you're gonna have to work through can it be in your inner circle or do you guys prefer outside oh yeah i'm friends with all of his lovers like the first girl when i came in and they were

dating each other she's my best friend now they're not they don't see each other any longer like when we get married she's a bridesmaid no doubt that is cool you know why you put your ego aside yeah ryan holliday ego is the let me ask you this are these obviously you guys love each other so you're getting married but are these emotional connections as well as are these just sexual encounters yeah originally we had this idea and look it's just going to be sex blah blah human beings are emotional creatures you know it's impossible to not get emotional with another emotional being like it's just unrealistic and i think it's another one of those things like you want to protect all the specialness you can and say okay it's just one of those things like you want to protect all the specialness

you can and say okay it's just sex we got this thing but really you know it doesn't really work emotions are going to come and if you don't make allowance for them then there's the guilt and the shame and the dishonesty because what you want in this situation is you want blistering honesty you want that absolutely phone is face up on the table, blistering honesty. And that's what the goal is here, like true allies in life. And anything short of that is just kind of leaving a little bit on the table. And it's not easy work. Wait, so what about the other people, though?

What if the other people get a little bit like cuckoo? Does that ever happen? That's happened. Yeah, so what do you do how do you handle that well you you handle it you handle it the best you can i mean ideally you've been 100 honest with them the whole way through right so when honesty is at 100 you know really there's not these big, huge moments where it's like, I can't believe this, blah, blah, blah. In these big, dramatic things, there's just constant, steady pressure of dealing with your own shit. But when you've been honest the whole time, what is going to come up that's going to be, yeah, some people might have some emotions that get triggered and then you just kind of deal with those but it's not like oh my god you didn't tell me about this you're seeing this person blah blah blah these huge kind of blowout scenarios you really try to mitigate those as much as possible by just maintaining constant steady honesty with no

surprises so let me give you a hypothetical both of you hypothetical say you're home you're relaxing and you really want to spend time with aubrey and he comes home he's like listen man i'm like i'm just really tired from my beautiful day with my lover like i don't have i don't have the energy to give you right now like does that happen and how do you navigate that or is that a non-issue like what if you you want attention he just like you know i've given all the attention to someone else today or vice versa. Does that happen or? Yeah, I mean, that could happen. Usually in the in the best scenario, you know, you come back to your lover very energized,

you know, like you come back and you love that person more and you come back and you're more you're so grateful, basically. Like, for example, you know, I recently took a trip with a lover to Miami and waiting for me in the hotel room was a bottle of champagne and some strawberries and a note from Whitney saying, I hope you guys have an amazing time. Right. And then, so when I got there, that whole, that whole night, I was filled not only with my love and excitement to be with my other lover but love gratitude enjoyment from being with Whitney you know like from from having that blessing from her and for having her do a sweet thing that was obviously still still a little bit challenging even though we've gone

past that and so I was so grateful that when I returned you know I was able to just flood her with that same kind of gratitude and love and and, and, and I, I was even more filled up. Now there's other, there's other situations that can happen where maybe you are a bit distracted. Maybe, you know, this person that you're seeing has kind of consumed some of your energy and consume some of your thought patterns. And that can be extremely, extremely challenging. And that's where you really have to trust. Yeah. Maybe this conversation is giving me. Okay, go on. And that's, and that's harder. And then, you know, then you really have to trust the long game and you have to trust that things will iron out over time and not too much, put too much pressure on the immediate moment um but that's

not easy so when you both look at people now in committed monogamous relationships what what do you think about them like what like there's got to be some type of thought process never like it's like hey that's not gonna work or it's like hey like depends on the moment sometimes i'll look and i'll be like man that looks great yeah right like that's for sure easier isn't it why don't we do that and then it's like 30 minutes goes by oh yeah never mind that's fine but you know people are people get so caught up in their own little dramas and their own little frustrations and resentments and when you're dealing with the type of shit that whitney and i have to deal with on a regular basis, the deepest core fears. Are you sexually adequate enough?

Are you enough of a man? Are you enough of a woman? Are you like with you seeing somebody who's better than you at any different single category so you have nothing to rely on for your ego as to why that person wants to be with you other than the fact that you're you? Like when you get down to that level,

a lot of this trivial stuff that you see the the average couple fighting about you're like you're fighting about what like that oh okay well have fun with that you know i mean it's it's just you push yourself into the deepest darkest recesses you know similar to plant medicine of your greatest fears and then the normal waking average stuff gets a lot easier yeah exactly we just there's not like the trivial kind of bs that i mean i remember we were talking about a couple recently that were having a hard time and constantly fighting and constantly fighting and i was thinking like but about what like over who like they're not in an open relationship so it's like some of the stuff that people fight about is just funny to me now when did you decide you guys were going to talk about it on the podcast we've talked about it for a while from the beginning no at first that was

one of the things you know we're going to keep this secret i don't want everybody to know about this the whole thing and then he went out with somebody to dinner and an acquaintance of ours saw him at dinner with another girl and was basically like hey bro yeah hey bro don't worry i got you and so like after that aubrey was thinking i don't want to be i don't want people to think i'm lying or like after that, Aubrey was thinking, I don't want to be, I don't want people to think I'm lying or I'm being shady or I'm doing something behind your back. Like let's come out in the open about this. One, it'll help, you know,

show people that there's a different way of having a relationship and you don't have to have this one box relationship that you're born into the world to have. But two, we're not doing anything shady behind, we're not, I'm not lying to you and he's not lying to me. Like this is just how we

work we know that i know exactly where he is and he knows exactly where i am it probably has made your relationship way better yeah 100 it's also just like he's saying it the coolest part about being an open relationship for me personally is that it's taught me more about myself than anything i've ever experienced so i know exactly what makes me tick and what I like and don't like. And all of the insecurities have been brought to the surface and I've been able to shed light on those. So I understand myself better and he understands himself better through it. So we're able to have a more stable relationship.

Yeah. It's like Terry Crews said on, on Tim Ferriss. Did you guys hear that? He said that he wants to be with his partner instead of has to be. Yeah, you choose. Yeah.

It's always a choice and that's the beautiful part. And I think, you know, we've been together six years. I think some of the greatest nights of our life where we've been the most passionately in love where it's like literally we're sitting in heaven together.

We're just looking at each other, touching each other, holding each other's hands. A kiss is so incredible to bear it would be something that you could maybe experience you know at that first rush when you find a new love you know we're still able to experience that now like not all the time not every single day but we're still able to more and more experience that now and i don't think that would be possible if it wasn't for this type of relationship that's unpacking all of the resentments and unpacking all of the

ownership and you know we're two free people that are choosing to see each other and choosing to love each other and it's it's magical you know it's magical but you go through hell you go through you gotta get uncomfortable to get comfortable. Yeah. Super uncomfortable. What's next for you guys? I see, you know, the book, you're on tour. I see you guys all also started doing some videos together, right?

I watched a morning routine. Maybe you guys can walk us through your typical morning routine now, because I saw you posted a video with water, lemon water, and it was like some kind of concoction. Yeah, there's three things you need to do when you wake up. I kind of mentioned those before, but I call it the morning mineral cocktail. That's going to be a pinch of Himalayan salt, some lemon, and about 12 to 16 ounces of water to replenish the water that you lost overnight just from the water vapors that you've been breathing out.

So first thing is hydration. Don't reach that coffee first. That's going to be even more dehydrating next thing is you want to set your circadian rhythm which sets your kind of waking hormone balance throughout the day and also helps you go to sleep at night so light is one of the main drivers for that and also movement so get a little sunlight and get a little movement in even if it's something light like oftentimes swim laps or just kind of basically move around um and then start utilizing breath in the cold step two that's the video we just released uh today but we're gonna have this whole video series for people don't want to go check the whole book out immediately right away

want to kind of dive in um we're calling it own the day life and that's going to be on my youtube so you can check that out you can check out all the videos we have but ultimately the book is that kind of full process that takes you through the whole day through having sex and having that glass of wine to in the gym to all the food and all the all the different tips that you should have from morning till night yeah what i like about it too is that it it you're able to mess up right because if you take on this whole diet plan or it's a 30-day this or it's I'm working out at the gym every single day

or whatever it is, it allows for mistakes. It allows for you to go out and drink a whole bottle of tequila on accident. Whoops. It seems to be happening more and more. But it gives you ways on how to get back on track and how to

replenish your body when that happens and yeah i mean that's i think it's just very relatable in that sense what are you guys's non-negotiables that you have to do every single day like obviously you have to start your day off with what you just said but is there something else that you do that's like self-care something that you'll put everything else on hold for to do yeah i mean i think to me um to me the cold is is now non-negotiable like at some point i have to expose myself to the cold see michael you know that said you know because i'm always in the shower every day and there's not a single day that i won't at least turn that shower nozzle cold because i know i know what that does for my body i know what that's what kind of state shift that makes um and then i think connecting with whitney is also a

non-negotiable you know we have a couple things that we do she makes me a little voice recording and i we take some time to actually see each other and i think that's really important especially being in an open relationship like you can't just take it for granted you can't just kind of leave it be and you got to put some attention into it. You got to you got to make sure that that's important. Those are those are really the non-negotiables. I mean, I try to steer clear of carbohydrates during the day and eat those more at night. There's general rules that I'll try and do, but those rules get broken more often. But a couple of things are just pretty reliable. And what about work? Is work the same as

it's seven days a week for you guys? Do you shut it off? I mean, obviously when you go to Peru, you, I would assume that you put your phone away. Do you have set hours? Yeah. I mean, when we're connecting, you know, we really try to put our phones away because we're so connected and we both have big social media platforms. We both have a lot of people hitting us up and it's absolutely vital that you shut that off at some point, not only for your own, you know, state of anxiety and your own mental wellness, but for also so that you can be present for the people around you. You know, if we could go through a whole dinner and evening, you know, with our phone by our side, kind of half scrolling, half connecting.

And it's like, I wasn't even there with her might not even might not it doesn't even really count you know it's just like we were in the same vicinity but 40 50 60 percent of our mental capacity was driven towards something else so at certain points you want to put that completely away and give your undivided attention to the present moment and the people and place that you're that you're around and it doesn't have to be like an entire evening. If there is a lot going on, I mean, he's running on it. So he has emails coming in constantly and whatever it could be. So if he comes home at 7 o'clock, then maybe we have our time until 9, 9.30,

and then he'll start working back again. So I think it's something that can be negotiable to whatever fits in your schedule. Yeah. Some kind of breath too. You know, I think there's a Japanese study that shows that six deep breaths is enough to create a state change to lower your blood pressure,

to help relax you, to help change your state of mind. I heard you say this on another podcast. I forgot that it was you that said this. And I've been doing it. Wait, what podcast? Did you say that on Joe Rogan? I've said that on a couple of different podcasts, it. And I've been doing it. Wait, what podcast? Did you say that on Joe Rogan? I've said that on a couple different podcasts.

But I've been doing it and it helps. I need to add some Himalayan salt to my water. But one thing I'm fucking done. Yeah, yeah. So what, last question, what is a book or resource or podcast that each of you would recommend? It could be about anything. Well, you know, obviously I love the guests that I have on my podcast,

the Aubrey Marcus podcast for sure. He has great guests guys. Yeah. And then, you know, I think there's, there's so many different good ones out there. You know, I think if you really want to deep dive into health, um, you know, there's the on it podcast has the Ben Greenfield podcast. Those are incredible. I think Tim Ferriss is one of the best interviewers out there in the world. It's a standard. If you want to laugh your ass off, Fighter and the Kid.

I think Joe Rogan obviously is the behemoth and the mothership of all these podcasts and has some world-changing conversations on that show. So for me, there's a lot. Yeah, there's a lot for me. I mean, I love Fighter and the Kid and Tim Ferriss and all of that. I also started listening to this podcast called on drugs and it basically, I think

BBC does it and it, or NPR and it basically takes all of the recreational drugs and it's like music on drugs and society on drugs and dancing on drugs and how it kind of like infiltrates that arena and it's super interesting and funny and i just i love it okay pimp yourself out tell us where to follow you guys um you can follow me at miss two jits m-i-s-s the number two j-i-t-s that's like stands for miss united states to jujitsu because i started fighting and all that stuff so yeah all my goodies are on there. I'm just at Aubrey Marcus pretty much everywhere. And then the company's at Onnit, O-N-N-I-T.

But, yeah. And check out the new book, Own the Day, Own Your Life. Check out the podcast. Got a lot going on. Available everywhere. You can go to ownthedaybook.com if you want to check it out or just look at Amazon, check them out, videos, whatever. Yeah. Okay.

Thanks guys. I'm going to add my salt to my water. We got a lot to talk about. Lauren and I, we got to hit you up offline, get some resources. And if you get to that point where you're taking a knee and dry heaving, give me a call. I got some strategies to help get you back to your feet. Before you guys go, let's do a little giveaway. So I'm thinking of doing a beauty wellness giveaway to one of you. All you have to do is let me know what you liked best about this episode on my latest Instagram. Super easy. I'll announce the winner on next week's episode.

You'll win some beauty and wellness goods handpicked by me. Also, if you want Tipsy Thursday, my weekly newsletter, make sure you go to theskinnyconfidential.com and click Lauren Everett's and then subscribe to the newsletter. You can expect a lot of wellness hacks, beauty tips, tons of easy tricks, my favorite song show, book of the week, et cetera. I think you guys will love the weekly newsletter because there's a lots of value as always rate and review the show. And if you rate the show and review it, please send it to asklaurenattheskinnyconfidential.com and we'll send you five beauty secrets straight to your inbox. Thanks for listening. This episode

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