The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - #48: Mark Manson: The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck

Episode Date: January 31, 2017

Author, Blogger, & Entrepreneur Mark Manson, joins Lauryn & Michael to discuss his book "The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck." A counterintuitive approach to living a good life. Manson details the struggles he encountered writing the novel, why he chose to pursue an internet business, how he went from a blog to a book, and the fact that failure propelled him forward. To Connect with Mark click HERE To connect with Lauryn click HERE To connect with Michael click HERE This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential Bombshell Body Guide and Meal plan.  tired of combating inflammation & bloat? Want to feel lighter and sexier? Check out lauryn’s latest 7 day meal plan. In this simple & super effective plan you’ll find: + tsc grocery list with every ingredient you need for the 7 days. + what the f*ck to do when you love carbs guide. + quick and delicious recipes: breakfast, snacks, lunch, dinner and dessert. You will also find 28 weeks worth of fat burning, muscle toning, 27 minute long, effective workouts you can do at home with no equipment. USE PROMO CODE: HIMANDHER at Checkout for 20% Off

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Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her. Welcome back, guys. It's Tuesday. We've got a super extra special episode for you. It is definitely one of our favorite authors and bloggers. Mark Manson today is on the podcast. We're not going to do a super long intro because we are so excited to have him. But we just wanted to say hi.

Happy Tuesday. And thank you for subscribing and listening. Yeah, we recorded this late last week. And, you know, Lauren introduced me to mark manson you know i think middle of last year and i really really liked his writing we got his book which we'll be talking about on this episode which is called it's also one of my favorite titles the subtle art of not giving a fuck and it's bright orange it's bright orange um it's marketing genius because everybody in their right mind wants to instagram this

and put it on their instagram and show everybody i'm not i can't remember if he said it was on purpose or not i think it's on purpose so i really appreciated the marketing behind this book and i ended up gifting and sharing this book with a lot of people before we get into our interview with mark manson i want to tell you guys about Michael Lauren clothing. Okay, so when I was in Las Vegas for like five seconds a week ago, I was rocking this onesie, and it was this leopard print onesie that was amazing. I actually loved it so much that I slept in it, and then I wore it on the plane with a leather jacket over it, and then I got off and wore it the entire day. It was very Kylie Jenner of me.

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listeners. So all you have to do is go to michaellaurinclothing.com and type in code skinny for 20% off your first order plus free U.S. shipping. That's Michael, L-A-U-R-E-N, clothing.com with promo code SKINNY for 20% off your first order plus free shipping. And guys, how great is it that it's called Michael Lauren Clothing? Is that not amazing? It's very, very fitting. So yeah, with that, we are going to jump right into the interview so that you guys can hear. And I hope you enjoy. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Okay, guys, today we have Mark Manson on the podcast. He's a bestselling author,

entrepreneur, and blogger. He has a highly popular blog called markmanson.net, and recently released a book, which Lauren and I both love, called The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck, which is a New York Times bestseller. So, Mark, thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good to be here, guys. We're so excited to have you. So let's get right into it. Just tell us some background on yourself. Um, so I started blogging 2008, I think. Um, and I, I, I started out actually with dating advice because I was a young single guy and I wanted to know what the hell I was doing. So, um, figured what, what better way to start blogging about it. And it eventually kind of morphed into just general life advice and, um, started writing about all sorts of issues like happiness, motivation, life purpose,

things like that. And I had a little bit of a different take on it. And the blog started to blow up about five years ago. And then I wrote a book and it blew up last year. And now here I am talking to you guys. Okay, so I'm dying to know where you give your fucks. Uh, so it changes, right? Like it changes where you give your fucks changes as you grow older and experience more. And recently for me, at least, um, I just got married, just moved back to the U.S., settled down. And so my fucks have been simplified a lot. You know, I spend a lot of time with my wife and a few friends and trying to kind of enjoy a domestic life, which is very different than my life in my 20s. So it's been very nice just giving a fuck about kind of basic, boring things recently.

So can you tell us a little bit about your background? I know you mentioned briefly that you got into dating. And I read in your book at one point you were actually traveling all over South America. You just kind of said, fuck it, and went off on your own. Yeah. Where were you at that point in your life? And how did you get to this point? Because now you're Yeah. Where were you at that point in your life and how did you get to this point? Cause now you're, you're, you're married and obviously you're

settled a little bit, but for a while there, you were, it sounds like you were kind of wild, man. Yeah. Um, I was, I was a big party guy. Um, you know, I was out drinking and partying three, four nights a week, sometimes more. And, um, you know, one of the, one of the big motivations for me starting an internet business was the freedom of location that I could work anywhere in the world. So I spent about six and a half or seven years traveling around the world, living in different places. So I lived a number of years in South America. I lived out in Southeast Asia for a while, lived in Europe for a while. And it was a ton of fun. It was really great. But, you know, a number of years ago,

I met my wife in Brazil. She's a Brazilian. And it just kind of it once I kind of hit 30, it was time to wind things down and get a little bit more serious about things. And that's actually a big inspiration of the book was for me, you know, I look back at my 20s and I gave a fuck about a lot of what I recognize now as superficial things. You know, being the fun, cool party guy, having all these amazing experiences, meeting tons of girls. And now that I'm, you know, I kind of reached a point in my life where I'm like, wait a second, this stuff isn't actually that significant. I need to start focusing and giving a fuck about the few things that are significant. And so that informed a lot of the wisdom that came out in the book.

Okay. So you used to work a traditional, I wouldn't call it traditional, but you, you had a nine to five before you started blogging, right? Yes. Very briefly. And was that before, or that was after you were traveling or before? Before. Okay. So like what made you make the switch and how did you figure out that you could actually make a living? Cause I mean, 2008, 2009 is pretty early for, you know, to start blogging and start a business like this. Yeah, it was a combination of a number of things. One, I, well, first of all, the Great Recession hit. So like, job market was trash. There was like no good opportunities. So I ended up kind of getting stuck in a job I

really didn't like um it wasn't paying very well and there's really no opportunity like there was no opportunities in sight for like changing or moving up so I was 24 uh 23 and so I didn't really have anything to lose by by trying this crazy internet thing you know it's like I was already broke. So if I'm going to be broke for the next couple of years, I might as well be broke trying out this internet entrepreneur thing. I want to know how you went from blog to book. They actually, the publishing industry actually got in touch with me um i had an article called the the subtle art of not giving a fuck that went crazy viral i think it had more than um one million likes and on facebook and and about

i think seven or eight million page views um and and i mean i had already kind of been contacted by some agents and editors and stuff like that but but I never really it didn't seem like there was much serious interest there. But then after that article, some people got pretty serious about it and saw the size of my audience and were like, yeah, we should we should definitely do something with this guy. Okay. So this brings us to the first chapter in your book, which is called don't try because this, I think this can be a little bit confusing for some, because obviously in these stories we're hearing from you, there is a, you tried in a lot of things and you have a successful platform and you have a large audience and a book is no easy thing to, to write and to accomplish accomplish so can you briefly explain why the first chapter of the books don't try and what you're trying to convey to the readers it's um i think the simplest way

to put it is uh that old quote from from yoda and star wars is uh try not but do i love that quote do or do not there is no try try. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. And I like the concept behind that because it's a lot of people, for a lot of people, the idea that they're trying to do something is a way for them to avoid actually doing it. So they convince themselves, you know, hey, I watch these videos on YouTube and I like called a few people and I like sat down for an hour and wrote a few words. And so I tried to start a website, but in the end, they're not actually anything they're they're doing things that appears like they're accomplishing something without actually accomplishing anything and so um i used the story of bukowski in that chapter to kind of illustrate this this whole idea of like you know if you're

trying to be something then you're actually preventing yourself from being it and it's actually that letting go of uh this idea of trying so hard is is when you're actually preventing yourself from being it. And it's actually that letting go of this idea of trying so hard is when you're actually free to go accomplish things. It's almost like when you're chasing money so hard, you're never going to find it. It's kind of almost like, you know, at least in my experience, I think even in Lauren's experiences, when you're not looking for something, it tends to manifest itself.

And so it's interesting to think about like that. Cause some people, you know, they focus so hard on certain things and they just never get there and they can't figure out why. Yeah. And, and I, there's a concept in there called the backwards law, which is, you know, in psychology, they, they found that it's, it's the more you tell yourself, you need to be happier. You need to be successful. You need to be successful you need to be um loved and popular it's you actually make yourself feel worse because you're reinforcing this idea that you don't have it already i mean clearly you're really into psychology did you study that in school um no i actually i studied international business and politics and um psychology was always just a hobby for me

i had something i read on the side for fun i read a lot of non-fiction that sounds like michael yeah i mean i'm a i'm a basic i'm a psychology expert now no not not really um but no i you know i identified a lot with your writing i think we have some very similar messaging and i you know when i read your book i was like wow somebody's really actually contextualizing this and putting it into really clear blunt words that people can really understand so in the book and you talk a lot about happiness um and i said you said something that both lauren and i like we really can't agree with more you said happiness comes from solving and I, like, we really can't agree with more. You said happiness comes from solving problems. And we kind of, we didn't say it as clearly on this podcast, but we talk kind of about the power of, like, suffering a little bit and understanding that, you know, nothing's ever going to be perfect.

There's always going to be shit that happens. And can you elaborate on what you mean by happiness comes from solving problems? Like what are you trying to message to people? Yeah. So I think a lot of people out there who are unhappy and they're seeking happiness, seeking help, they start with the wrong assumption. They start with the assumption that the problem in their life is that there's all this unpleasant stuff going on. And if they could just get rid of that unpleasant stuff, everything would be great. And this is actually a really bad starting point. Because the fact is, is that there's always going to be unpleasant stuff in life.

There's always going to be shit that's going wrong. And the issue, the thing that is depriving people of happiness or preventing them from being happy is not that they don't feel good all the time. It's that they don't feel that the unpleasantness means something. It's not worth something. I bring up a bunch of examples in the book at how like, if you think back over the course of your life, the most important and meaningful stuff that brings you the most joy is often some of the most difficult stuff to deal with you know raising a child or um starting a business or um hell i i i just got married i think you guys i saw on your instagram you guys just got married i believe like

planning a wedding is like a nightmare i almost i almost didn't make it out of that one. We didn't kiss at our wedding. We had 55 people and it was the people we only loved. And we were kind of brutal about it because it was like we just wanted the people that were so close to us, like our best friends and family. So we definitely applied your book's philosophies to our wedding. No, but it's funny when you think back on it, like, you know, during the planning and the back and forth, as you know, it can get really heated and it could get really stressful. But now I look back on those moments. I'm like, oh, wow, that was actually fun. That was worth it. And I remember more of that than I probably because of all the tequila than I do have the

wedding. That's funny, though, because we did the same thing with ours. We got pretty ruthless about who we invited and knew. Some people started kind of like raising a fuss about stuff and we were just like, all right, don't come. But yeah, just getting there is like, it's, it's a struggle, but it's worth it. And part of what makes it feel so worth it is the amount of sacrifice and, and, um, because that sacrifice gives meaning to that event. And so, um, you need that, like that, that struggle is actually like a necessary part of happiness in most cases. Okay, before we get into how long it took for Mark's blog to start crushing it, I wanted to talk to you guys quickly about movement watches. Movement was founded on the belief that style shouldn't break the bank, and these watches definitely do not break the bank. As you guys know, I'm a big watch aficionado, collector, I love watches, and MVMT really makes some great timepieces at really affordable prices. The company's goal is to offer high quality minimalist products at revolutionary pricing that is really hard to beat. If you remember a couple of weeks back, Lauren and I were in Hawaii and we were wearing the watches and also my new favorite aviators, which are also by movement. I love them because I have a really

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That's movementwatches.com slash skinny. That's movementwatches.com slash skinny. It's also a really good gift for Valentine's Day, which is coming up. So go and check them out now. No, I kind of wish, you know, Lauren and I didn't have any kind of platform at all in the beginning, starting out besides what she was blogging about. And I definitely, I have a couple of business of my own. I had nothing to document what that process looked like. And I, and I wish I did because, you know, with social media these days, we see a lot of images of people really living like these crazy lives and putting their best foot forward. And it makes it look like stuff happens quick and it makes it look like there's no struggle. And I think it adds to entitlement. Yeah. How long did it take for your blog to start performing?

And how long did it take for you to write this book? Because I know this book is also a process from the blog. Of course. Yeah, so I started blogging. I mean, I started blogging in 07, but I didn't start blogging seriously until like 2010 or 11. So I would say serious blogging, it's been about six to seven years.

And then the book took about two years, two and a half years, but there was some off time in the middle. But yeah, I went through, I think three entire drafts before I could even hand something into an editor. I mean, it's for every word that ended up in the book, in the book, there was probably two words that were deleted. So, um,

it was, it was very painful and difficult at times, hopeless at times. For me, one of my favorite things about your book as a creative is the cover. It's amazing. I just loved how you made sure your cover was Instagrammable. I actually even Instagrammed it myself and I got all these people, you know, adding each other because it's such a unique cover. Did you keep social media in mind when you designed the cover? So Harper designed the cover, although I had approval and feedback. Butper designed the cover um although i i will i had approval and like feedback but i love the cover like i love the boldness of it um and i love the color of it it really stands out in a great way and um and the paint splat was mine because they originally had an asterisk and i was

like everybody does an asterisk that's not. We need to do something like more interesting than that. Yeah, everyone wants to put it on their social media. I mean, it's amazing. The color is amazing. Everything to me is so this generation. I just thought it was really like a very unique cover that everyone wants kind of on Twitter and Instagram. It's amazing. I come from a marketing background. And when I saw it, I actually have used the book as an example to some of the guys that work in my office. I was like, listen, if I ever do a book, this is the vibe. Like this is the type of thing. You make it so everybody wants. I mean, I hope everybody reads it. But even for those that don't read it, just taking a picture of it because it stands out so much and it's so unique. You know, the bright orange and the black.

I think it's spot on. And people can, you know, people can go buy it and just look at the cover. I'm fine with that. One big book that just says fuck in the middle. Yeah. I like it on my coffee table. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so as I said before to you, I read and reread your article on struggle. I put it on the skinny confidential. I got an amazing response to your whole article. People just couldn't believe it. And it resonated with a lot of people. Were there struggles that you endured writing this book? Can you tell us about them? Oh man. Yeah. Where do I start? Um, it's yeah. So, I mean, the first big struggle was I, I spent probably six or eight months putting the first draft together and the first draft. I think one thing you have to learn as an author is that you division you have in your head of what what you're working on is going to be is often um unrealistic and or slight like delusional uh so when i started

working on this i i had this like grand vision in my mind that this was going to be this epic like philosophical book that like but was also popular and accessible to you know just random people on the street and um and i remember i worked on it for like six or eight months it was incredibly long it was like over twice as long as it i think it was like almost 500 pages and uh i showed it to a few people close to me um and pretty much the universal feedback was like this is boring as shit this is like this is they're like the the ideas are really smart but um yeah this is just my god mark what are you doing and um kicking the nuts yeah so i you know i after about a week of drinking and wiping my tears away, um, I came back to it and I could actually,

after, after some time I could actually see what they were talking about. And I think what happened was, um, you know, I had some insecurities around like, this is going to be my first big book and it was going to be published by a major publisher. And so a lot of people were going to read it. And so I had to like prove myself in this big way, like how smart I was and how clever I was. And, um, and ultimately that, that need to prove something led me away from how I write, um, and, and how my voice should sound. So, um, it was a nice little, a big slap in the face. Is face. Do you say that because you felt like because this is your first big nonfiction book that you had to make it sound like more credible in a way? Like more – I'm trying to figure out the right word. More like an official – how an official author would write a nonfiction book.

Like you got out of your blog voice is what you're saying. Yeah, essentially. And I think I've always had know coming from the blogging world like you know as i said earlier like i don't have a degree in psychology or philosophy or any of this stuff so coming and coming from the blogging world you're basically you're largely ignored by the mainstream media like you're not taken seriously um and so I think I just had a chip on my shoulder. It was like, oh, this is my shot. I'm going to prove to everybody like how smart and put together I am. And yeah, I totally got away from what made people like my writing in the

first place. What I really like about the book is when I was reading it, I felt like I was actually listening to you how I'm listening to you now. Like you could really, you could really tell this book is written in your own words and in your own voice. And I think, you know, it's, it's commendable that you were able to go back and take that feedback and go and, and go and launch with this because I think it maybe would have been a miss if you wouldn't have done that. Yeah. Oh, totally. And I don't know if they would have let me publish it. But yeah, it's something that I've learned. And especially talking, you know, having met a number of authors last year or two, it seems to actually be kind of a common experience is that there's this excruciating period as you're writing a book where you have to accept that that vision you had

in your head was just not not realistic like you have to let go of it and and accept like what's what's actually going to work and doesn't it feel like for me when when i wrote the skinny confidential book it feels more permanent than the blog for some reason because i feel like with the blog you can go in and kind of edit it but with book, it's like there and it's like your kids are going to read it. It's kind of like a crazy feeling. It is. And it's, it's something too, that, that for whatever reason sticks with people more too. I mean, if you think about, you know, just myself, if I read it, like there there's there are books I read 15 years ago that I still recommend to people and tell people that they're great. Most I can't I couldn't tell you three blog posts I read last year.

You know, it's like it just they don't stick for some reason the same way. Yeah, that's crazy. So you obviously read a lot. There's some very stoic philosophies in this book, and I read a lot of stoicism. Is that an inspiration in this book or in your life? Stoicism is always something I've appreciated and I relate to a lot. It's funny. Um, I actually, you know, so the big, the big stoic guy, the big stoic Renaissance going on right now is, uh, kind of being pushed forward by Ryan holiday. And, and, um, I'm friends with him and have talked to him a number of times about this. Like my background is actually in Zen Buddhism, which is very, very similar to stoicism in that it kind of just is like,

shut up. You don't know anything. Get over yourself. So I practiced Zen for a number of years in college and after college. So that's kind of like my roots. And there's a lot of overlap there. Awesome. So you kind of touched on the media a little bit and there was a passage I read in your book. I can't remember which section it was, but I remember that I actually, I liked it so much that I Snapchatted it to everybody. And you were basically writing about how the media plays both sides of the fence right now. And they go, they offend one group of people to get a reaction from the other group, which then generates another reaction. Then basically people can't take their eyes off it.

Can you give an example of how that's happening and kind of why you brought that up? Oh, man. It's – at this point, that's pretty much all the media is. And look, it's not necessarily that there's – it's not – the problem isn't – I think a lot of people, they think the problem with the media these days is that it's not not necessarily that there's it's not the problem isn't i think a lot of people they think the problem with the media these days is that it's not trustworthy or like the information is bad and i i actually don't think that's the problem i think a lot of the information is probably true it's the problem is the way it's presented i think like everything we're seeing lately with the the trump stuff with like the this the intelligence report and the connections to

russia and all that like basically the media will it will initially be presented in one way which like makes trump look horrible and then and then you actually dig into the reports a little bit and see that there's not really anything that's substantial there. And so then it's presented in another way that makes, you know, liberals look horrible. And then, you know, they'll dig a little bit further into it and then they'll present it in a third way that makes the right look horrible. And so it's not the whole like what actually happened kind of gets lost at some point because everybody's just getting so caught up in like being angry at each other. And and what's interesting to me about Trump, all of the things aside, is that Trump seems to be the first politician that really understands Internet media like he understands this and he knows how to play it. And so when he hosts a news conference,

he knows that he doesn't actually have to answer questions factually. He all he knows that all he has to do is just find a way to, like, stoke some more outrage and anger and now keep the media cycle going for another two or three weeks. So I think. What happens here is like ultimately the public loses out. Like we're the ones who – like the more we kind of get sucked into this soap operization of information and media, like the less we're actually able to give a fuck about what actually matters, which is what is the shit that's happening in our government and our society. No, I mean, whether you're what, whether people are pro Trump or against Trump, I think, you know, there's a, there's very little understanding that the media and the people actually played a large part in the outcome of that election because they paid attention to a lot of the stuff he was doing. And like you said, he really understands marketing in the current media landscape. And I don't think a lot of his competition did, which kind of brings me to the next point that I want to talk to you about. A lot of people,

you know, they make excuses, they get mad, they don't take ownership to their problems. And then they're surprised when things don't go their way. Can you speak on this? It's kind of like, it's kind of a big theme on this show is like basically taking ownership, understanding that, you know, we're the creators of our own outcomes and understanding that there's not a lot of outside factors that really contribute. Sure. So it's, it's, there's a quote in my book, I have a chapter on this actually about responsibility. And I, I mentioned that line from the Spider-Man movie where Uncle Ben is dying and he's like, with great power comes great responsibility. I love that you use comic book and Star Wars analogies for all the women that are listening.

I'm super pumped on that. No, the best part is I originally put that quote on my blog like three or four years ago. And I was too lazy to google who said it like i i didn't remember who said it and i was like yeah some philosopher said like with great power comes great responsibility and like somebody emailed me was like you realize that philosopher was uncle ben right i was like oh oh man i feel like an idiot but um so but i flipped that around and i say with with great responsibility comes great power. And basically the argument that I make is that whether we realize it or not, we're essentially choosing all of our experiences.

Yes, things happen to you. Shit goes wrong., accidents happen. Yes, there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the world that we have no direct control over, but we are still responsible for our experience for the simple reason that we are always choosing how to react and how to respond to what's going on in the world. So, you know, you can get hit by a car and it may not be your fault. You may not have had any control over the car hitting you, but you are still responsible for that experience. You are responsible to get better because you have a choice of how to react to that situation. And so I think a lot of people resist this idea for a number of reasons. One, it's scary to take responsibility for your problems. But I think another reason is that people associate responsibility with blame. So if

something bad happens in their life, they're so worried about whose fault it is that they end up just never taking responsibility for it. But the fact of the matter is, something might not be your fault, but it's still your responsibility to react appropriately. Okay, before we talk to Mark about failure, I wanted to talk to you guys about something that I'm really enjoying, a product that has really helped me out

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Who can pass that up? And you just need to cover shipping when you sign up. Plus, as a special offer, listeners of this show can go to harrys.com right now and enter code SKINNY at checkout to get a post shave bomb, which is also free. That's harrys.com code skinny. The Forbes interview from podcast one just launched with the king of podcasting, Adam Carolla. On February 1st, we're dropping a new show. It's called Forbes under 30, where we talk to young entrepreneurs hosted by me, Steve Goldblum. It's interesting because when you're a creator, that never leaves you. You always have this urge to want to create. It's just who you are.

You're like the girl from Wreck-It Ralphs. You knew she was a driver the whole time. That's Martellus Bennett, one of our first guests. Who knew this NFL star was also an artist? He's that and much more. Subscribe to Under 30 on iTunes now, and be sure to give us a rating and a review. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

So we want to talk to you a little bit about failure. You have a chapter called Failure is the Way Forward. Can you tell us about a time in your life where failure actually propelled you forward? Yeah. Um, well, I, I, I use that draft idea that I just told you. Um, so it's funny, actually, I, uh, when I started my, when I initially started my business, um, I, I, I promoted, like, I, I didn't do much blogging or writing I actually did a lot of affiliate marketing

and SEO type stuff so the idea was to promote products and make money that way and I had this huge plan of launching this big online course that was going to make tons of money. And, you know, I could kick back with a pina colada on the beach and all my problems would be solved forever. And, uh, it just bombed. I spent nine months working on it and it just bombed horribly.

And, um, to the point, very similar story to my own, to the point where i was like wow i think i'm like doing the wrong thing like i think i'm actually bad at this like it bombed so hard and um it forced me to take like a really hard look at what my skill sets actually were like what what do i actually do that's valuable or good and when i took like a very honest like painfully honest look at at my business and what i was doing i was like you know i think the only thing i do better than most people is i write better um and people tend to like they like my blogs like they read my stuff they email me a lot um i'm a horrible salesman so like why am I trying to

force myself to, you know, I was trying to force myself to be the salesman cause I, I thought I wanted money. And I was like, you know, if I just focus on the writing, like something good will happen eventually. And, um, and it eventually did. So, I mean, in that sense, that failure was, although painful was, uh, incredibly useful. It's kind of like that experience lets you double down on your strengths and figure out what those were. I think a lot of people get really, really scared of failure because they're worried of who they're going to fail in front of. What happens then is you get stuck in a funnel where you're kind of just going down a path

that you might not necessarily be on. Like you shouldn't be on that path. And I think it stops people from actually looking inward, like you said, and saying, hey, these are my strengths. This is actually what I'm good at. And when they do that, they can stop wasting time with things that they're not good at. Like in your case, if you're not in sales, why are you doing it? You're never going to improve on stuff that you're not good at.

Right. And especially that you don't enjoy or you're not, you're not being a return from. And yeah, it's about getting your fucks allotted in the right places. Okay. So last question, where do you see our generation giving their fucks? You mean today or in the future? I would say today and in the future, what do you see, you know, generation of 20 to 40? Where do you see the majority of them giving their fucks? I think I think our generation, our generation is very interesting for a lot of reasons, I think. I think and I think our generation has a lot going for them.

I think we're more educated than any other generation before us. We're more tech savvy. We're very good on things like tolerance and diversity and open to new ideas and different lifestyles and things like that. Like, I think all of that

is unquestionably good. Like we, those are good things that we give a fuck about that previous generations didn't really. I think our generation's weakness um is that because we've grown up with the internet um we don't know how to manage our attention and i i see that as like the biggest kind of uh universal problem in in like first world society today so many options that we can't kind of focus down on one task at a time yes and that we get lost in um stuff that's that's very dramatized

or overhyped or or you know the flavor of of the hour you know like what what meme is getting spread on on facebook or whatever that week. Um, and I, you're starting to see this be reflected in, in our media and our politics and our, our social policies. Like it's, it's nothing is, everything's kind of being gutted of substance because it's all just, everything is oriented towards getting clicks and eyeballs. And, um, on the one hand, like we can complain about that. But on the other hand, like the only real way to change that is to become conscious of the information that we're consuming and how we're managing our own attention. No, and I think what's dangerous about it is people give up a lot quicker.

You know, back in the day, if you chose it, let's just use you want to be a farmer, you want to you want to choose a certain profession. When shit got hard, you didn't just say, well, there's another option. I'm going to go do that. I mean you didn't really have another option. You had to stick with it. So with the current state of the internet, you're kind of like, oh, well, I tried that. It didn't work. I'm going to jump to the next thing and that cycle starts to repeat itself because you think, hey, I tried this for a few months and it didn't work. So I'm going to jump ship and do the next thing. Yeah, and there's a great book that came out last year called Deep Work by Cal Newport. And one of the arguments that he makes is he said that, you know, there's a lot

of great things in life that can only come to you when you've invested 10, 20 years in the same skill or the same job or the same hobby or craft. And I think our generation is not really putting themselves in a position to benefit from stuff like that. I completely agree with you. I think what you just said is so valuable. I completely, completely agree with you. So basically anyone that's out there that's a blogger or an author or an influencer creator, I think that everyone should really take what you just said to heart. Or anyone, any profession. I mean, yeah, I really think it applies across the board.

It's, it's hard. It's hard being in our profession because we feel the influence on both sides. Right. So it's like as content creators, we're well we need to get clicks like we need to like put stuff out there that you know people like and people want to share but on the other hand it's like there's this invisible line that you don't want to cross of like good tastes or bad tastes and like you don't want to be like part of the problem yourself so So it's a weird battle between good content and distribution. And unfortunately, in your profession, you kind of need both. I mean, yeah, I know. I wish it was just content.

I would love to just write all day and be creative. Yeah, you and me both. So on that note, where can people find find you where can they get your book tell us all your social media handles sure uh so the website is markmanson.net the book is called subtle art of not giving a fuck it is available bookstores and amazon everywhere um and on facebook i am markMansonNet same on Instagram MarkMansonNet and Twitter it's I am MarkManson

Thank you Mark. Buy his book you guys it's amazing we love it. It looks super cute on your coffee table. It's a great Instagram and the inside's good too Yes buy it for the cover. Buy it for your grandparents too to show them yeah the cover yeah yeah to give give them a small stroke thank you mark thanks guys it was fun all right okay

that was incredible thank you so much mark for being on the skinny confidential him and her podcast we love you if you guys want to read more on Mark, you can head to his blog. You can also Google the skinny confidential struggle to read about what I wrote about Mark on my blog. Remember to send in your questions to Twitter or Instagram. You guys can always use the hashtag ask him and her follow us on Snapchat because tonight we are speaking at the collective conference on business and branding. it should be fun and we think we're going to podcast the entire episode so for all of you guys around the world who can't be there in la you'll be able to listen and taylor if you guys miss it we'll be in the back filming

like a creep per usual so you guys will be able to probably catch it on YouTube, and I think we'll post the audio one of these days soon to the podcast. In the meantime, you guys can go to podcast on the skinnyconfidential.com and send in your questions. We're going to do Collins again soon. And on that note, we will see you next week. Thanks for listening to The Skinny Confidential, him and her, with Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic. Download new episodes every Tuesday at PodcastOne.com or subscribe now on the Podcast One app. Hey, man.

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Tell them why it's better now, Drew. The Adam and Dr. Drew Show. We're unencumbered. We're unlicensed. We're uncensored. We do anything we want. It's the pirate ship, man. The fudge, yeah.

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