The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Amber Venz Box - How To Build A Billion Dollar Business & Lessons Along The Way

Episode Date: May 15, 2024

#700: Today we're sitting down with blogger-turned-tech entrepreneur, Amber Venz Box. Amber is the founder of the affiliate marketing system Like To Know It formerly named RewardStyle, which connects digital content creators with brands and retailers. Amber joins us for a conversation surrounding creator marketing, passion projects, and how she built one of the largest creator platforms in the world. We also dive into the full LTK story, how to build a company for longevity, and how to build an empire while prioritizing your family at the same time.   To connect with Amber Venz Box click HERE   To connect with Amber on LTK click HERE To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Lauryn on LTK click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   To sign up to be an LTK Creator click HERE This episode is brought to you by Revolve From last-minute trips to event dressing + seasonal refreshes, REVOLVE has you covered with fast two-day shipping and hassle-free returns, all on them. So go to revolve.com/SKINNY today to shop my top picks for the season. This episode is brought to you by Salt & Stone Visit saltandstone.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Airsculpt Get $1000 off an Airsculpt procedure when you complete a consultation. Visit airsculpt.com/skinny to find out more. This episode is brought to you by LMNT LMNT is a tasty electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. It contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio: 1000mg sodium, 200mg potassium, and 60mg magnesium. Get a free sample pack with any purchase at drinkLMNT.com/SKINNY Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

People didn't take digital seriously at all. They didn't take social seriously. Retailers weren't selling online yet. And so the fashion space was definitely not using any sort of like marketing technology at all. And I finally got a meeting. I'm sure it was some sort of pity something from somebody and sat in the room with her.

And she was like, look, I work with celebrities and models. And if I started cutting checks to people who take pictures of themselves in mirrors and alleys and in front of garage doors, I would lose my job. I mean, that was the conversation. But I did spend probably too much time even trying to create partnerships with legacy industry to try and prove out the value of creators or to like legitimize creators. And then I finally gave up on it because like, well, they don't want us to succeed. They don't understand. We're maybe taking jobs where we're like actually turning this whole industry like upside down or

reinventing retail. Like it's just, you know, was this almost like kind of silent thing that happened and then it just took over. This episode is a gem. Today we're sitting down with blogger turned tech entrepreneur. I feel like that doesn't even do her justice. She's a gem. Today, we're sitting down with blogger turned tech entrepreneur. I feel like that doesn't even do her justice. She's a boss. She is a mother of four. And she has really become someone in the web space that people look up to. And that is Amber Vance Box. Amber is the founder of affiliate marketing system, LTK, which used to be known as Reward Style. And it connects digital content creators with brands and retailers. I have personally worked with LTK for, I want to say, the last seven years. And it's such a great way to monetize.

If you're a macro creator, a micro creator, if you just started out, they really support creators everywhere. Today, you're going to learn how she built the largest creator software in the world. She started in her dad's house. It's a wild story. You're also going to learn about the mindsets of successful entrepreneurs, the full LTK story, how she scaled her business, building an empire as a mom of four, and how to choose your priorities. I personally really like this episode too because she opened up about how she thinks about her time. And you know how I love to talk about time. It's one of my favorite subjects. On that note, Amber Vents Box, welcome to the show.

This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Before we get into this, I have to give you a compliment. When I was like a really small blogger, you guys invited me to the Reward Style Con at the time. It's LTK now. This is years ago. I want to say this is like almost 10 years ago. And I get invited and I reach out to them and I say, can I please interview Amber on my blog? Didn't have a podcast, nothing. And you said yes. And you allowed me to interview you at the conference when there was looking back.

I'm like, oh, my God, there was so much going on. You had like 300 creators there that you were managing. Now that I know how it is to throw a wedding and a toddler's birthday party, I'm like, oh, my God, she was probably so distracted. I sat you down and you let me interview you for the blog that you guys can go back and read like eight, 10 years ago. I have a very clear memory of that because I remember you had a book, you had blonde hair. I think it was like a health book. And this was like before being healthy was even popular. That's okay to say, at least in Texas, it wasn't in my circles. And I remember your book

and I actually still have your book on my bookshelf. So any book that our creators have written, I have like a whole section of them. And it's like usually the one that like they've given me. And I remember being so impressed with you because I was like, this girl is in her own lane. She cares about things that people aren't necessarily like thinking about yet. Clearly, there was an audience for it, but, and you were doing things so differently and you just had such enthusiasm. I actually wrote this on the card of the little gift that I brought you today. I was like, do you remember that time? So it's funny that we both kind of thought back to that story.

I remember I asked you your wellness tips and you were like, this is again before health. And you're like, honestly, Lauren, I love Diet Coke. And I was like, this is amazing that someone's being honest because you're building this huge multimillion dollar company. And you're building this huge multi-million dollar company and you're like, you know what? I love a Diet Coke. And I'm like, you know, so do I with a burger. Room service, there's nothing better. Diet Coke's pretty good. Amber, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you guys. Okay. This has been a long time coming. You have built a massive business. I mean, it's wild and I want to get into the evolution of it. Let's go way back to when this was a seed of an idea. Talk to me about where you were, what your house looked like, what your life looked like, what your everyday looked like when this was no LTK. Yes. Well, I'll throw you back a little bit to even early childhood. I loved to make things and I would see things and I just felt empowered that I could create them, whether it was a pair of earrings that Jessica Simpson wore. And I was like, well, my mom's not going to buy

them for me. So like, I've got to figure out how to make them. Or there was, I think Jennifer Love Hewitt wore this like Prada dress on People Magazine and we're cutting it out and showing my grandmother who was a seamstress. And it was like, great, come to my house for a week and like, let's make the dress. And it was always just kind of create things. So I loved creativity. I loved being in the space. I always felt very empowered. And I, let's see, I mean, before that, I did so many things in the industry. I always knew I wanted to be in fashion. I didn't know really where I'd land. I thought first that I was going to be the next Rachel Zoe. So I wrote a business plan for my parents and I sat them down at the kitchen table. I was like, look, there's this woman. I'm going to be the new version of her.

And so here's like how I'm going to back into this version of her. And so here's how I'm going to back into this. But the next step for me is I need to go to LA and I've got to start building my contacts. And so my dad was like, will you take your brother too? Did you grow up in Texas? I did. Yeah. And so where does that entrepreneurial spirit come from if you go to your childhood? I mean, to go to your parents and present a business plan that you're going to be the next Rachel Zoe, I'm like, Zaza needs to hear this. How did that even transpire for you to get to there? You know, now having my children, I'm like, there is a real strong genetic thing there. And then also, you know how you're raised. I think my mom took TVs out of our house from an early age. She

was like, I just don't want you spending your time here. You can go play outside. There are activities in our home that we could do. I always remember our babysitters being prompted with either something that we would cook or something that we would make or create. There was always an activity. I probably spent a lot of time in my room alone just making things and doing stuff. So I'm an introvert and that lends itself very much to just, I don't know, a lot of time by itself. My dad also, once I got older, encouraged us to be entrepreneurs. His take on it was that he was able to like, you know, come pick us up from school and have lunch or go to our games and be involved because of his,

you know, choosing to build his own business. And so that was a lens that I always kind of thought through. And I think, you know, I guess jumping ahead a little bit, I knew what I wanted, whether it was the Jessica Simpson earrings or the dress or the purse that I needed to go buy or whatever. And I would just always like figure out a way to do it. Like I never felt like there was a total roadblock. My parents were encouraging, but they also were hands off in a lot of ways as well. Like they sort of let me run. And then it was like, so what did what did you do? Or I think about even applying to college and being like, oh, I got into this school.

They're like, is that where you want to go? And I was like, yeah, we never talked about it again. It was just kind of a little bit like that. But I can see very similar traits and at least like one of my children right now. And so I'm like, those are things that are maybe sort of built in. I love all of those tips. I'm taking a couple of those tips. So after you do your Rachel Zoe presentation, what is the trajectory that you're on towards

LTK? So I go work in LA, decided that it was very long days, a lot of shopping. I was like, wow, I'm spending more time in the car than I am actually styling people. What year is this? Just for reference, because I want to think about just that time in LA. Okay. So this was 2006. Summer 2006. And then the next summer, one of my best friends, she wanted to be in broadcast journalism. And so she got an internship at NBC. And she was like, we want to move to New York with me and we'll like figure out somewhere to stay and you can get an internship there. And so I ended up getting an internship with Takun, who at the time was kind of one of

Anna Wintour's favorites. And it was like a team of 12 maybe. And so everything you did there was meaningful. So I think I started out working in like the wholesale team and probably like data entry and ended up being the fit model by the end of it. I sucked at getting his food. So I was fired from that very quickly. And I learned a lot about like the wholesale side of the business all through college. I worked in retail and it was a mom and pop shop. And I was the only consistent employee.

And it was almost like my dollhouse. They didn't care a whole lot about what I did and they were happy that I took initiative. And so I would re-merchandise the store, go pitch brands to buy. I was in school learning PR and communications. And so I would, you know, re-merchandise the store, like go pitch brands to buy. I was in school learning, you know, PR and communications. And so I was like, wow, like I now know how it works on the back end with these wholesalers, like what they want to hear from a store. I'm learning about kind of how to pitch yourself on this PR side. And they would essentially, you know, pay the bills. And I kind of got to play house in the store. But before that, I mean, even starting as far back as fifth grade, I used to knit scarves in the back row of fifth grade and I got kicked out of class because you're not allowed to vend scarves in the back row of fifth grade math, apparently. I got kicked out of a lot of

classes. It wasn't for knitting scarves. You were not knitting scarves. You were trying to look up my skirt. Knitting scarves was not on my bingo card, but I can relate to getting kicked out. Well, you know, it went from that to like, I would repurpose denim. So people would give me their denim and then I'd charge them 20 bucks to make it into mini skirts. And then I started the jewelry line because people wanted those Jessica Simpson earrings. And so then I started, and then people would drop off their prom dresses and make me jewelry for it. And so there was always something entrepreneurial happening, you know, behind the scenes. But fast forwarding to like right before ltk the jewelry business

actually took off so when i met my husband baxter he was entering grad school um at smu and i brought my laptop to his house at night and i would just be kind of like keeping up with my business through a spreadsheet and he looked over my shoulder one day and he was like so tell me what all is happening here and he's like these are pretty big numbers. I was like, yeah, it's going really well. And he was like, well, so where is all this money? And I was like, I'm looking great. And, you know, like I'm buying shoes, I'm buying handbags. I work at this store. I get actually to buy things at cost because I'm like the buyer. And so I'm ticking off like I want one of those and one of these. And to me, it was this side gig that was going to provide the fun money. But it was actually multiple times

larger than my full-time job from an earnings perspective. So I left my full-time job to pursue the jewelry business. Many failures there we can definitely go through at some point. Maybe that's the next episode. And then I started doing personal shopping. So I learned from the store that people would come in, they had these clients, they would earn a commission from the store, but they didn't have to actually work at the store. And so there were several in Dallas at the time, and they had relationships with all of these different boutiques, and they would go in and pull for their clients and deliver. So when I left the store, people still wanted me to help dress them. So I took them on as personal clients, and I went around and did that. I negotiated with

all the different retailers. So when they were packing for their vacation, I would go around town, collect the coolest clothes in their size, dress them, style them, photograph it, exchange the sizes that didn't work, all of this stuff. A lot of work. A lot of work. Lots of schlepping. And then actually the worst part of that job was collecting. So you're pulling from all these different retailers. I remember sitting in someone's lobby and I was waiting for a $34 check because that was the commission on the sweater or whatever I had sold. And you're sitting there for an hour and a half and you're like, oh my gosh. And you're doing that all over town because I just didn't have a team.

So the personal shopping bit. I, in 2010, launched a website to market my personal shopping. And my thought was, okay, well, I'm going to document all this. I'm going to demystify it. People are going to understand my personal style. I'll get more clients. And this is going to be great. So Dallas Morning News does this full page article and it says, meet the blogger. And blogger is like huge type font across the whole top of the page. And it's my picture. And it's like, hey, this girl, you know, from around town, like she's this jewelry line and she was this shop girl and now personal shopper. She's actually going to do the personal shopping online for free. And I knew the editor because I would always feed them anytime we had cool stuff come at the store, I'd call them and

tell them to come get it and shoot it for the Dallas Morning News. And I was like, why did she not listen to me? Like, that's not what I told her. I told her that I launched this website to market this personal shopping business. I'm not doing it for free. And that was in the spring. And by October, I was like, I am doing that job for free because all of my clients wanted to really consume my recommendations and shop for me, but just online. They want to do it after their kids go out with a glass of wine. They don't want to book time with me to have to do all this. So I had, at the time, building a website was really expensive. And I'd built this custom website. I'd hired a photographer. I was posting three times a day, which I was very proud of myself because Who What Wear was the only other website that I knew of.

And they posted once a day. Is this like around like 2008 now? 2009? So this is 2010. Spring of 2010. And so I'm posting three times a day on this blog. I've hired this photographer. I've built this website. I've still got my jewelry line going. And this is all one woman show. So I'm just like working around the clock. And by October, I had realized that I'd cut myself out of my personal shopping business by starting this website because people were just getting the tips, buying the things directly. And they would even text me like, oh, I shared your newsletter or, you know, oh, I got that bag. Oh my gosh. I was the first of my friends, like loving this website. And I'm like, $100 commission, $30 commission, $12 commission. I'm just like tabbing this up.

I'm like, they think they're being so supportive, but I am literally still at my dad's house eating cereal. This is not working. And that was the moment we decided to launch LTK. And where was affiliate at this point in this world? Like, could you go to Nordstrom's and get an affiliate or was this not even a thing then? Because I'm trying to even just remember. Yes. Okay. So affiliate technology existed.

It was bigger in Europe. It was like for trains, insurance companies, like it was very like coupon and industrial when we decided. And when I say we, so Baxter and I are very much a team in this, he had helped me with the jewelry business to like launch that online and to go into multiple retailers. And so we'd already started doing business together. And with this, by that fall, he was like, what are you going to do? Because now this is like a cost center for you. And it was supposed to be something that you were making more money. And so we went on a walk with our dog to Starbucks down the street in Dallas. And he was like, rainbows, unicorns, anything's on the table. How do you want to make money on this blog? And I was like, well, I just want credit for what I'm doing. Like I used to make money offline. They were happy to pay it. Like, can I, can they just do the same online?

And he was like, well, okay, well, like what would this system be called then? And I don't know why we went to branding first, but initial conversation. And I was like, well, I think it would be reward style because if you have great taste and you're showing people things that they do like and they buy it, then you'll make money. And so we literally got on domain.com and reward style was available. We bought reward style. all the jewelry and post it on the blog. And I would get on PowerPoint and I would draw like, I didn't even know the word wireframe, but I was drawing wireframes of what like, it was like, click here, it does this. And then late night, like 10 o'clock, we had a graphic designer who would come over and I was still living in my dad's house. So this is now up in the game room at my dad's house. And he would come over and he would stay till like wee hours in the morning,

translating what I did to something that an engineer could actually then go code. And I remember actually at the time, my dad was like, I don't know what, I remember hearing him tell his friends, he's like, I don't know what she does up there. These weird guys come over. She's giving them craft beer. And I was like, yeah, that's because I was trying to get them to work. I was like, let's do something. This is, you know, what they're like interested in. And so, yeah, we spent like every night, evening, weekend doing that kind of building out what was like the really, really, really basic, like super MVP version of what we launched as RewardStyle, what you now know of as LTK. I look back when I when I was asked to become a member, it felt very sexy is the word. It didn't feel industrial like the other ones felt. It felt pretty and girly and feminine and something you wanted to be a part of as opposed to something you'd want to hide in the basement. Well, the thing is, I wanted to say, well, two things.

One, I think this is interesting why I keep asking about the timelines is because I think you guys were kind of swimming in similar blog. Like Lauren was known as a blogger first. And so were you before the term influencer or creator or any of these things existed. But like in the early days, the only way you would really make money is if somebody paid for like a banner spot on your site or if they, you know, paid you some commission for, you know, doing some kind of promotion. And I don't think like people now in the creator economy realize what it looked like then. But then the other thing I wanted to say,

which I just think is interesting to observe, we've done this show for a while and we get asked all the time, primarily from young people, how you find your passion or how you find your purpose or the thing you're going to do. And I think people look at what you've built or what Lauren's built or what any of the other people have come on. And they don't realize that all of these little things of you being a buyer, like styling people, doing the blog, tasting a bunch of things, starting the jewelry line informed all of the things for you to create what you've created. And it's not like you just jump like one day woke up and said, oh, I'm going to do this thing. And the reason I point that out is a lot of people think they're just going to stumble to the big idea. But I think the way you stumble into that is by doing all the different things along the way to figure out that. Does that

make sense? Entirely. I think that my superpower is actually understanding all sides, like having played all the parts. Like I was a retailer, I was a manufacturer, I was in wholesale, like I was in styling, I had my blog. And I actually didn't realize that working on all and then was trained in PR. And so then working on all sides of the industry, just inform my ability. Okay. Like what does everyone need? And like, how do we make it where everybody wins all together and, and built a system that way. And I tell anyone like, regardless of what industry you want to be in, like do all the jobs, work on all the sides and deeply understand it. Because I think that's what brings you to the aha moment. I think it's the only way you can become an original because, you know, there's a lot of ideas that are like kind of second, third, fourth movers, but to have the

original idea that's new, it's typically a culmination of a bunch of experiences that you can only get by having those experiences. Does that make sense? Like somebody else at that time could not have come up with that idea because they didn't, they weren't seeing it or thinking about it the way that you were thinking about because of your experiences. Completely. And actually, you know, when you talk about that time period, okay, so let's bring people back. I was on a BlackBerry. So was everyone. Like iPhone was not ubiquitous in the market at all. App Store was like barely launching if it had launched. When you thought about online retailers, there's really only two online retailers. There's Shopbop and Net-A-Porter.

Luckily, they had almost every product that I was talking about because I was kind of between mid-market and luxury for my clients. And so Shopbop was like that mid-market and then Net-A-Porter hit luxury. And those were our first two retailers. And I actually remember getting on the phone, and this is by the way, like pre-LinkedIn. So like, how do you find people? Like this is a really, it wasn't that long ago. It was like 14 years ago, but it's like the world is very different. It's a little vintage. So, you know, getting on the phone, for example, with Net-A-Porter and I'll come back to, well, I should start with Shopbop. So Shopbop was our first. And somehow I got a hold of somebody's email and got on the phone with them. And I told them, hey, you know, me and a couple of my blogger friends, we really want to

talk about Shopbop and we want to, you know, we think we can drive traffic and sales to you and like tell people about Shopbop and be top of mind. Would you want to work with us in this way? You know, where we'll earn a commission, yada, yada. And they said yes. And I remember I came downstairs and then they were very forward thinking, obviously being like first to digital. And I came downstairs and I was like broken out in hives. My dad was like, what's going on? And I was like, shop up said yes. But I was so stressed and so intimidated to even just be on the phone. They were already owned by Amazon at the time too. And Amazon was way smaller then, but still huge. And I just remember thinking like, I'm basically on the

phone with Amazon. Like this is like almost, it was overwhelming. My body was broken out in hives. And then with Net-A-Porter, like how I got to them, I would ask everyone I knew if they knew anyone at Net-A-Porter. So they're based in London. And again, pre-LinkedIn, all of this stuff. The way we ultimately got to Net-a-Porter was an intern's boyfriend's sister lived in London. Her roommate was a graphic designer at Net-a-Porter. And that's how I got the call with Net-a-Porter. And I literally was wearing maybe some softy shorts. I put on a silky blouse. I got a Skype account. I put pearls on and like slicked my hair back and tried to like act like this was like a real thing. And it took months for them to agree. But when you talk about things being sexy,

I wanted to link to Miu Miu and Prada and they were selling Miu Miu and Prada. And I was like, I am in a commercial relationship with Miu Miu and Prada. Like I want to be a fashion editor. I want to be able to talk about these things and like earn money by talking about these things. And so that was one of the first huge moments of like, this is very cool. So a couple of things. How many employees do you have right now at this moment? There's over 800 right now. Okay. So I want to talk about the trajectory of the employees. Who's your first hire and who's your first strategic hire? And also who is your first creator? The first hire was bringing that engineer on strategic hire and also who is your first creator the first hire was bringing that engineer on full-time so this was like totally bootstrapped and i think baxter

and i both put in like it was four figures i probably put in like a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars like we were like piecing along paying this engineer hourly to translate those kind of wire frames and we would meet him on the weekend. So he had a full-time job too. We would go like meet him literally in Dallas, buy him some brunch again, like you find ways to like get people to show up for things and talk to him about like the intent of like what we were trying to show him. I'd kind of like translate the wireframes, if you will. And then he would spend the next week doing it. And we'd come with like another check if we can buy some more hours. And that's kind of how it was working at that point so our first actual like hire was him before we were able to hire him

we gathered our friends actually at a irish pub and um yeah we're very into um what's the irish shepherd's pie i thought you're saying an irish car I was like, sold. After this. We went in a different direction. But anyway, we gathered our friends at an Irish pub and literally circled up 10 people. And we're like, hey, Amber was making money offline. We've now done this online thing. This one retailer has said, yes, she is making money. It is working.

The technology is working. Will you guys throw in on this? And almost all of them did. One, who is an investor today, as a professional investor, he was like, well, Baxter, if this is such a big opportunity that you're telling us it is, why are you not quitting your job and doing it with her? And he was like, okay, I'll quit my job by the end of the year. He worked to make that happen. And we raised from friends and family. Our first hire was that engineer. We got a studio apartment in Mockingbird Station in Dallas, which at the time was like a very cool place to be. It was a mixed use, one of the first mixed use. It looked out like over SMU,

but had like a Starbucks downstairs, which we thought was very cool and like all the cool stores. And I remember Baxter was really nervous because he thought that we were going to get kicked out or be in like legal trouble because we were running a business from this place. And I remember with the leasing agent walking through, I was like, I'm going to work here. Is that okay? He's like, yeah. And I was like, I'm probably going to live here too. He's like, yeah, okay. I was like, I don't care. And so anyway, we did that. I was actually sleeping on the futon in this little like loft. It was like the tiniest of times, truly the smallest thing they offered. And the team didn't know it at the time. Actually, I would like fold everything. We put everything away before they got there in the morning. But I so desperately wanted to move out of my dad's

house and just like be a launched adult that I made that kind of all work. So how do you start to pick who you're hiring to build this? Because this is this is you got to have the infrastructure, the foundation, and also how do you choose the creators simultaneously? So on the creator side, SMU had started a fashion media program, which was really before their time, to be honest. So people were actually forced to have websites for their school. And so I used to have a section on my blog that was called Girl of the Moment. And every month I would pick someone who was doing something interesting. And every Tuesday, I would feature them. But I'd go into their homework closet. I would style them. I would

shoot them. And like every Tuesday, there'd be a new set of photos and outfits and like pieces. It's like a four part interview, basically. I really loved that series. But two of the people that I featured on Girl of the Moment actually did have websites. So one was a school website. And then the other one had a Tumblr that she did with her best friend and they would like have like wine night and then just basically pin a bunch of pictures to this Tumblr, you can call it that. They would tumble photos. And so I went to both of them first and I was like, okay, here's what I'm doing. It is working. I'm making money. Like if you are talking about products or showing things people can buy, if you'll just tell your audience that like this is a pair of Citizens for Humanity jeans and actually like link that using our tools,

then if people buy things like you'll you'll make money as well. And so they were the first two that I got set up. I remember I wanted one of them specifically I thought had like great taste and was like really working hard at it. And I were going on and actually buying a pair of white jeans from her because I was like, I wanted to see that it can, you know, like actually work. And it did. And she was like, so excited. I, the next batch of people. So one was, I went to what was called IFB. So independent fashion bloggers, like back in the day, I don't know if you ever went to those conferences. So I went to this before, like, this was maybe early 2011. So before we like actually launched and I was like, I want to figure out how these girls are making money. I had no blogger friends. I went to New

York by myself and went to this conference. And when people would come off stage, I would just run up to them and be like, hi, I'm Amber. I live in Texas. I'm not your competition. Like, will you tell me how you make money? And I were talking to Leandra, me and Repeller, and she was like, well, I like, I get free clothes and I get invited to parties. And I was like, so you don't make money? I was like, you were on stage. How did you get on stage? And that was pretty much everyone's story.

It was like everyone either was living at home or had some other job. And this was a passion project for them. And so I remember coming back home and telling Baxter, none of those New York girls make money either. And so that kind of like helped us along our path path of like well there is a probably a real need for this so Leandra was actually one of my first phone calls huge at the time huge at the time she was one of the biggest that's like one of the biggest bloggers just to give Michael context if you don't know who that is I know of the man repeller yeah yeah so I called Leandra from that same game room upstairs and I was like hey um you remember remember how you like, you know, how's it going?

Are you still living at home? Yep. Still living at home. I was like, so I started this thing to help people make money. Like, you know, you talk about all this stuff. If you'll use these links, you can, you know, make just do what you're already doing. But if we have a link for it, then you can use that and you can make money and we'll get you paid and we track it and send it to you and all that. She was like, OK, I'll try it. And then she started making money and she called back and she was like, can I like tell some of my friends about this? I was like, yeah. And so then all of a sudden you have like La Fashion who was like running content for Who What Wear and then like Glamour Eye was big. And like they're all referring each other because everyone was doing it as a hobbyist, but like how exciting to actually

have money to buy the things that you're talking about. Step one, and then to move out of your apartment, step three. So it was really like first kind of the network that I had met. And then we started going after just bloggers that I followed online. And I remember one of them specifically, I think she even, well, she used a blog spot, but she basically would just post photos of herself in outfits. And it was clothes that you could never track down. I mean, this is before Google Lens. This is before like anything of, you know, being able to find what someone's wearing. Is this Fashion Toast? Well, I don't want to say who it is because the rest of the story I'm going to tell you. Okay. Uh-oh. No,

but when I finally did like track her down, because she had like no information, no text, no anything on this website. So when I finally did track her down and got her on the call, I was like, I think that people want to buy what you're wearing. Like every day you're posting outfits. And she's like, this is just what I love. I'm just doing it. No one's here to buy things. And so I told her, I was like, just one dress and it like see how it goes and this was like on a Friday afternoon because she had a full-time job couldn't find the dress at the time right yeah she wasn't even saying where she got it a brand anything it was literally just the name of the blog at the top and just a series of photos down the page so like just tell people

what you're wearing and then like link the ones that you can. And so that, that was on a Friday night by the next morning where we were sitting at Sonic, Baxter and I, and I like look, look up to see how it's doing. And she sold 83 of this dress. And I called her, I was like, you're not going to believe it. People are actually shopping. You've sold 83 of these. And she is still today one of the largest like influencers in the world. But those were some of, some of the early days. Two sites that I'm always shopping on when it comes to clothes, and that is Revolve and Forward, Revolve's luxury sister site. So both of these sites have the best of the best brands, in my opinion. And I feel like everything has like curated edits. So I go on to revolve and I'll get my favorite James Pierce v-neck tees that the best tees I

have white and black. And then I'll go on forward and I'll get some shoes, maybe a handbag. I love their jeans. They have these Kate jeans that I'm wearing on my Instagram story right now that are black and fitted and so chic. And both of the sites have amazing belts. I also wanted to tell you, I don't know if you know this, but Revolve carries skinny confidential products. So now you can go on and you can get your body sculptor. I created this body sculptor to break up my cellulite after having a baby. And it's absolutely amazing for summer. And you can grab all your bikinis and everything on there is just like on the pulse. They have new arrivals every single day. They have authentic high quality products.

Everything has inclusive sizing options. They've really thought of everything. But the best part I have to tell you is it's fast and free shipping and they have returns from last minute getaways to party dressing plus seasonal upgrades. Revolve has you covered with fast two day shipping and easy returns on all of them. So go to revolve.com slash skinny today to shop my curated selection. I did like a whole page for you guys for every occasion and season. And don't forget to check out their latest arrivals while you're there. They have new arrivals daily. So there's always something new to shop. That's R-E-V-O-L-V-E.com slash S-K-I-N-N-Y to shop my picks. I have to

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I was like fully relaxed. And they can even take your natural fat and use it to enhance your boobs, butt or face as opposed to implants or synthetic dermal fillers. I did not do that, but I've heard great things. So like I said, I snatched my arm and underneath my chin. I was like at a restaurant wearing my chin strap, rocking it. I loved it. I was literally there the next day going out to lunch at walking the beach, having a glass of champagne. Don't tell Dr. Rollins. You're back to your daily routine in

under 48 hours. Anyway, AirSculpt is inviting all him and her listeners to get a thousand dollars off an AirSculpt procedure when you complete your consultation virtually or in person. Simply go to AirSculpt.com slash skinny to find out more. That's AirSculpt.com slash skinny. Terms and conditions apply. When it started to really gain momentum, creators that you can call out that have just took it by storm and really did a great job where you guys were like, holy shit, this is going to be a massive business. You know, it was never a single creator. It was honestly like everyone was so excited because we

were all making money and then started making material money. And then people's parents started to get excited and read their blogs and and like their dads were like suddenly interested because it was like, whoa, this is actually real money. Like this isn't a joke. And it makes sense like you're giving a service to your audience and like you're getting to do what you love. So, I mean, I used to actually serve on the Dallas Fed as an advisor. And I think what was interesting about them inviting me and like the way they introduced me to the audience was Amber's employing a group of people that might not otherwise have had jobs or be contributing to the economy. And I was like, that's a really, that was, you know, several years ago, they said that I think people understand the

creator economy now. And there's true entrepreneurs that like start out, like I am going to make it as a creator. But at the time, I think it was very true where this was passionate people who were spending their discretionary time sharing what they loved with their community. And it was starting to make a meaningful impact on the economy. You know, it's so interesting. People now pursue this as a career path and they understand and we'll go and speak. I'm sure you've spoken. A lot of people speak at schools as an occupation to pursue. But the timeline of why I'm so interested in it, it doesn't seem that long ago, but it was for, it feels like a long time ago. I remember sitting with Lauren when she was starting and people being like, how are you ever going to make money on this? Why would you do this? A lot of older guys and girls be like, why would this ever make sense? Parents,

nobody believed that this was going to be something where people could make a living. And obviously that's been proven to be different, but it was just such a weird period of time when there was a group of very passionate people kind of doing this for no money or for trade. And I think like you're one of the people that helped a lot of these people go and make a career of it because at the time there was a lot of brands that were maybe taking advantage of that creativity and be like, Hey, I'll give you like a free trip or like, here's a free outfit or a free meal. And it's funny because those brands had such an outsized win at the time for that, as we all know now. Now everybody's paying. But it's just weird because I think a lot of people don't realize at that time there wasn't a clear path to make money. It was a huge

leap of faith from a lot of the early people that were in the space. I think what you've done too that's so incredible is you've helped a lot of people who are really creative be taken really seriously. When I was first starting, I remember I saw sales that I was doing for a juice company. I saw the back end somehow. And it was like hundreds of thousands of dollars of sales, which when I'm just starting with my little blog, that's a lot. So I remember taking the owner to lunch and saying, hey, you need to pay me a commission of this. And I believe that I should get $30,000. This is just the amount that I had calculated for all these sales. And he looked at me and laughed and was like, you're out of your mind. You're cute,

patting me on the head. And what reward style did for me at the time, now it's LTK, was you guys came in and I was able to work with another juice company where the commission was seamlessly integrated, where I didn't have to have that conversation. And the brand, it was a win for me, a win for them and a win for the audience because they were able to shop and support what I was doing. So it really helped like me when I was just starting out really be taken seriously. Legitimize. Yeah. Which was really cool. And you have to remember, that's incredible. And I love that that's actually, I think so many people

who were working back then will just be like nodding their head as they listen to this because of like the status quo was, well, first of all, blogger wasn't even part of the dictionary until 2017. So no, it was not part of common vernacular. When I talked about like shop up and net-a-porter being the only online sellers, like they truly were like people came online after that. When we, it was like, we actually helped vogue.com launch. So just to give you a sense, like we were that far in and then our team like swarmed and helped them. Like we literally went to New York and like helped. And by the way, they had someone who was previously an intern launched this website. People didn't take digital seriously at all.

They didn't take social seriously. When we talk about like the word affiliates, retailers weren't selling online yet. And so the fashion space was definitely not using any sort of like marketing technology at all. And so first step was like getting them to actually sell things online. And then second step was like trying to track down because PreLink Den, like who in this company is maybe responsible for it. And I remember going to a major retailer who had launched their online and I finally got a meeting. I'm sure it was some sort of pity something from somebody and sat in the room with her and explained that we could at least drive traffic, not sales. And she was like, look, I work with celebrities

and models. And if I started cutting checks to people who take pictures of themselves in mirrors and alleys and in front of garage doors, which was very common at the time. And such like a rude death in a way. Oh, yeah. She was like, I would lose my job. I mean, that was the conversation. Like and then if you remember, like even over the years, there was a whole movement of like bloggers from Fashion Week. I don't know if you remember that like even over the years, there was a whole movement of like bloggers from Fashion Week. I don't know if you remember that whole like truly it was like across traditional media, like we're going to ban them from Fashion Week. And it was a pejorative word. I mean, there were many years where this I've always been a champion of creators.

You'll see like you'll hit some passion points and I really go off about this type of stuff. But I still think creators are undervalued. I'm like working to solve all those problems, but I did spend probably too much time even trying to create partnerships with legacy industry to try and prove out the value of creators or to like legitimize creators. And then I finally gave up on it because like, well, they don't want us to succeed. They don't understand. We're maybe taking jobs where we're like actually turning this whole industry like upside down or reinventing retail. Like it's just, It's not going to be their shtick. And it didn't matter because what we're doing is cultural. It didn't need the approval of any magazine editor or any leader of an association. It was this almost silent thing

that happened and then it just took over. You know what's interesting though, and you'll probably be passionate about this. For the longest time, I think many of us were trying to convince a lot of people from that world to take this world seriously. And I was in a conversation the other day, I won't say, I got to be careful how I say this, with someone, but I basically asked this firm, in a future world, do these kind of creators and these kind of entities need you more than you need them? Fast forward five years. And it was this shocked look on this firm's face because it was a realization moment for them to survive. And you've seen many of these legacy companies falter and go under. And you see that with media and you see that with all sorts of things. But I think there's finally this realization of like, oh shit, either we missed the boat or we

got to take this very seriously. Because in a future world, publishing or fashion or media, if you don't start taking this economy seriously, you're just not going to survive. And so it's been empowering for me as an operator because I spend almost no time now trying to convince any of those people and just like, hey, if you miss the boat, I'll see you down the line five years or I won't. You know what I mean? I think that this goes along though with being a disruptor. You get to the point where you're like, I'm not in the business to convince you.

Get on the train or get off. And it's just like, that's how being a disruptor is. And I think that this is all part of it. It's you're going to get the pushback. You can't blame certain people though. It's just a lot of people are scared of change. They don't like uncertainty. They like to keep the status quo. Or like you said, they're worried that their job's going to be diminished. The worst thing is someone said, we've always done it this way, so we have to keep doing this.

So there's empathy to be deployed. But I just think the way I think about everything now is not what's going on right now, but what does this look like four, five, six, 10 years down the line? I want to talk about us speaking at LTK, a conference that you guys have. It's an incredible conference that supports creators. You can get more into it. But when I was speaking, I recognized that there are women in this audience that are making a million plus a year. And if you look at their Instagram, you wouldn't know that. It's not in your face. And I think that that is an impressive amount for women, a lot of women, mostly women, to be making. And I don't think that that's talked about enough and given enough credit to. Can you speak on these top performers that you guys have on LTK? For sure. This makes me so excited because I actually remember we did a book several years

ago, maybe around 2017, and it was like to know what the influencer next door. And my whole point in doing the book was on this journey to legitimize. It was like I was doing all of these things, anything I could to make sure that people understood the stories of these creators. So this book is global. It's a hundred creators from around the world with their various stories of, you know, one, one girl's like, I worked at Mac. I always wanted to like have my own makeup line. Then I became an LTK creator. I learned that I could, and now I do. And it's these really empowering stories. They're very short. And one woman, I called every single person to be in the book and talk to them and ask for their permission and kind of explain the project. And one woman that probably everyone in this podcast would know was like, absolutely. She was like, because my in-laws don't talk to me at the dinner table. They only think that doctors or lawyers are the ones that are do well. And this family is all doctors and lawyers. And they think I'm a piece of trash and they sent me at the end. They think I run up debt for our family because I carry all this, you know,

nice designer bags and whatever. And she was like, I'm so sick of people not understanding that my husband is a doctor and I make way more than him. And she was like, in this book, she was like, I'm going to give it to the whole family for Christmas. And it was like this like legitimacy,

like proof point. And honestly, like you said, I think a lot of these, so there are now almost 250 women who are LTK millionaires. There's thousands of them that are making a full-time wage on LTK. And like you said, it's not overly obvious. There's several people I can think of tons of examples where besides them and their spouse, like they don't change anything about their lifestyle.

They don't change the content that they're writing about. And so people actually have no clue like what's going on behind the scenes. Meanwhile, they're like, I'm paying off my house. I'm studying my kids college. Like we're going on vacations. Like things are a little different, but it's important. I, I talked to creators a lot about, Hey, look, if you started, for example, in the like affordable fashion space and then you get rich and you want to talk about like really expensive stuff, like your audience didn't also get rich. And so that's like the fastest way to lose your business is to just like sort of alienate them. And so I think a lot of what you're kind of speaking to is like those women in the room, it's almost unassuming. And that's

actually part of like the audience that they serve is things have changed for them, but they are savvy enough to understand things didn't change for everyone. And so they're still serving that audience. I think that my journey with you guys has been so interesting because at first I was just linking out like the top I was wearing or the jeans I was wearing. And now what I've done is I've deployed massive strategy to make this as something to diversify my income. It's something that's like an extra thing where I have like a fashion budget or whatever that's really amazing. So now what I do is I link the entire outfit I'm wearing because you do get questions over DMs of exactly what it is. And I obviously, I do what I can, but I don't have time to answer every single one all the time. So it really is like a one-stop shop destination for the audience to really get all the points

from the cell phone cover that I'm using to the nail polish gel that I have on to even like the tennis bracelet I'm wearing. Like it's like they really can get the full experience and it's not pushy. It's just like, here's the information if you want it. Right. If anyone's listening and they're just using links, I would recommend switching over to the full look. Is that how you call it? Yeah. Honestly, the people who do really well on LTK, I think it's even important to

foundationally just set like, why does LTK exist as a platform, like as the shopper platform that you use? Because actually we started the business B2B. It was like totally behind the scenes. It was a system where we were actually just able to track what was happening between a creator. And then when they send their customer to that retailer, we're billing on it. We're paying out to the creator. It's all under the covers. The reason that we expanded to have that shopper side of the marketplace was that we launched 2011. know, 2011. I had a blog you used at the time, Facebook or Twitter to drive traffic and Pinterest launched. You use that to drive traffic again, back to the blog. And then the Instagram day started and you're like, wow, this is a mobile closed social walled garden. I can no longer link out. I've been hired, quote, hired by my audience to do this thing for

them. Like I'm helping them go shopping. hired by my audience to do this thing for them. Like I'm helping them go shopping. It's really hard to take them shopping on Instagram. And so we actually start and then, you know, of course, then Snap came about even harder to get your community to like to kind of provide that service to them. So what we saw, you know, I think you spoke to this, Michael, earlier about really your job as an owner or founder is like being a futurist. And so like Baxter and I take that job very seriously. And we're looking at trends constantly and saying, well, if this plays out, then this, and if this plays out, then that, and like, where does that intersect? What's the top of the puzzle box? And so in three years,

we believe XYZ will happen, which means our creators will need this thing. And so it often takes that many years to get to a product that's viable by the time that you need it, right? And if you don't have it, you're kind of too late. So we started building LTK as its own platform starting as early as 2013 because we were like, wow, there's a new platform popping up every two years. They're all scaled consumer businesses. These are new places for our creators to essentially go fishing for people to join their community. But the biggest risk to them actually in this new universe is the fragmentation of their audience. Because if they can't on-demand reach that 20,000 that are there and that 10,000 that are there and that 2.3 million that are there and all of a sudden it's broken across all of these different platforms, across all of these

different retailers and media formats, then you actually don't have anything to sell. When you talk about selling that juice, you actually need a group of people who trust you, are following along, and who are available that you can reach when you have that campaign going on. So we started investing in LTK as that platform that was a differentiated home base where you're still using all of the platforms that you can in order to find new audience, but then you're bringing them home. And our thoughts for LTK is like, this should be the most competitive place to go shopping. When I say competitive, our shoppers are trained on world-class platforms. They are getting the best experience anywhere they go. I don't want, when they come to my creators, LTK, for it to be a lesser experience. We've been investing heavily to make sure that when they come, they're getting that whole outfit, but maybe it's not even just your

outfit. Maybe it's like you're on a new like keto path and you found all these keto snacks or like you're into running now and like, here's your running gear. It's everything. The reason I take you down that whole path in that story is your most engaged community does want to buy into your lifestyle and not just when they like see it pop up on TikTok on the interest feed or like on Instagram. And so like if I love your style, when I'm ready to go shopping, just the same way I'd open up like to go to a retailer, like I want them to go to you and be like, well, I want to see what like Lauren's wearing, what she's eating, what she's doing. And you are a destination. And that honestly, I think creators are a hospitality business. And so it's just better service to have

it available, indexed, searchable with all the codes, all the shoppable details, and candidly, even beyond probably what you're sharing on social media, because you're trying to attract someone with your best, honestly, to your own platform. I'm curious for my own selfish self, how you've managed to scale so seamlessly. And I'm sure you're going to say it's not seamless, but talk to us about what the growth has looked like and what you've learned and how you scaled and how you've maneuvered. So there's a book called The Messy Middle. And on the cover of it is this chart. And it's like this like loop de loop around chart. And that's what it looks like. It's

definitely not like a smooth and easy. We had our first employee for the first year and like an intern. And then it started being able to kind of grow the business again, bootstrapped, lots of bumps and bruises. I mentioned my jewelry line earlier and the jewelry line did really well and then it hit a ceiling because I had no training or experience working with other people so in that that store that I worked at all of college it was me and the owners but I got to do whatever I wanted to I was like a cat in there yes total and then like with the jewelry line and and being a perfectionist and wanting things a certain way it was like annoying to me to take the time to try and teach someone and then they're not as motivated. Like I was the worst manager ever. And so the jury line totally. I feel it. I get it.

Yeah. It hit a ceiling. Like there was no more, like I had reached my limit and that's honestly kind of even talking about like teamwork and how you scale this stuff. Like I like to think that LTK is the Baxter for every Amber because like I hit a point and it was like, I have this core skill set and it's really valuable if you can monetize it correctly. But I am missing this whole other side that I really need someone else to be able to do. And so us coming together, this was for both of us, our first, not our first entrepreneurial endeavor, but our first successful entrepreneurial endeavor. So what on a day-to-day basis, who does what? Like what's the energy? Like are you more creative? What's the vibe? So I think we're both creative, but so he's our CEO. I am. Our president has always been that way.

So from a reporting structure standpoint, we are we have two GMs, so general managers like core GMs. So we have one over creator shopping and then one over the brand side of the platform. And those both report into Baxter. He's much more the creative UI UX team reports through me and then the press kind of communications directly to me and then marketing kind of like dotted line. And are you working in office nine to five or is it fluid? So we're every day full time working. And so we actually a year ago moved out to far west Texas. Our whole team has been remote since 2020. And so we now have people working in almost every state.

And we like I actually work at a desk in our bedroom. And then we do that with four kids. What's the trick? Amber, you got to tell me the trick. What's the trick with that? How do you work in your bedroom with four kids? I don't that like lock the door you have to put like bars and a and a silencer like how do you do that you know during the school year of course they're at school all day and actually it's longer than most people because it actually is longer days where we live and then also to get to school is anywhere between 30 and 45 minutes and so send them to school six hours away and what are the ages? So my oldest is eight, my youngest is three,

and there are four of them. So I have a second, first, kinder, and pre-K. And this is where I'm so intrigued by you. And I say this to you every time I see you. How are you able to be so hands-on and build such an empire with four children? Like, what is the secret? Like, I don't know. It's a little psychotic, but I think I, Baxter and I both wanted a big family and we knew that early

on. We also dated for six and a half years. And most of that time, actually, we were dating two years before we started the business. And then another, what, four and a half during, and then got married in the middle of it. By that point, we had already been together for so long. And I think the interesting, if there's an interesting, because I don't love that that was the storyline, but everything was always moving in gold post. It was like, once we hire this person, I'll have some more spare time. Or once we get to this point, then we'll be able to date more. And honestly, that was part of the problem and why we dated for so long was that we both worked around the clock nonstop. It's all we did. We really weren't dating during that time. We were just like coexisting as like co-founders.

And so it was always like, we'll win, we'll win, we'll win, then we'll get married. And then at some point it was like that, that, like that day of freedom, like didn't come. And so we were like, okay, well maybe it's never going to gonna come and got married and then that was our perspective from then on is like well we want a big family that we're not gonna wait there is no like perfect time to do that and so we had birdie and then boyce 18 months later and then we had his sister busy 17 months later and then boots two years later and oh my god all bees all these that's yeah that's yeah his side i didn't fight that fight so cute oh everyone on his on baxter's side is all b's they're all b's wow yeah that's so cute why can't we why we should have been all m's m is not as good as b

not wait so so how are you like managing all of this like what's is there is there a secret i asked jamie o'b who, you know, obviously Dallas, how she does all of it. And she said, Lauren, when I lay my head down on the pillow, it's either I was a great mother or I was a great businesswoman. It's never been both in one day. And I thought that was great advice because it's true. It's like you, you can't do it all. Jamie actually gave me some wonderful advice early in having children because I asked her a lot of the same questions. We both were entrepreneurs in Dallas. And she was like, Amber, you need to figure out what core memories you want to have. And then you book those things

like their meetings and appointments. She was like, for example, if you want to be the one taking your daughter to dance practice, then you book that like a meeting. This was like pre 2020. But like booking it and you block it and you protect it. And she was like, if not, it will just never happen. And she's like, there's other things about like, for example, volunteering at school. She was like, if I'm the head of the PTA, my children will never see me. And so that's not really doing something for them. She was like, but bringing cupcakes to class and like celebrating kids' birthdays or like being a room mom, whatever. She's like, they see me. I'm like part of that. And so that's actually for them. And so she was like,

I just try to think of these things strategically. And I have used all of that. And so that's actually for them. And so she was like, I just try to think of these things strategically. And I, I have used all of that advice. The mom guilt thing is like super real. I think about it all the time. Like the, the struggle between like prioritizing, you know, Baxter and my children. Like I, I hate to say that honestly, so many times Baxter gets the backseat when he like totally should. And I try to not do that. And it's, I think it's because I feel like we have them for this like short period of time. I need them to like be great people and I need to be influential in their lives. That's actually why we moved to the ranch a year ago was I just felt like I was on this hamster wheel in Dallas where both professionally, personally, our families are there. It was like, no matter if I said no to like 90%

of things people ask me to do, I, first of all, I had guilt for saying no, cause I'm a pleaser. And then the second thing was it still left zero time for myself, for Baxter and I to have time together and for me to see my kids. And I was just like, something has to change. And I am clearly not capable of changing this by saying no to people. And so we've just got to eject for a minute and go like regroup as a family. Because I had always heard that by the time your kids are eight, they sort of are who they're going to be. And Birdie was turning eight. And I was like, well, wow, I've been really uninfluential in her life.

And so now I doubt that. I doubt that. I'm probably giving myself less credit, but it was definitely not as influential as I wanted to be. And so moving out there, it's like, you know, my evenings are now discretionary, like my weekends are discretionary. And so that's time that I'm actually spending with them. So like the workday is like fully for LTK and then nights and weekends are not for LTK. And so I do very

little work business travel. Like I push back a lot and surprisingly it's worked out. Did you know that drinking too much water can actually dehydrate you? Yes, this is counterintuitive. Should you really actually be drinking eight glasses of water a day? Are you drinking too much water? Sometimes that may be the case. And it's likely because you do not have the proper electrolyte ratio in your body, in your system, which is why Lauren and I love Element so much. We've been taking Element for years. We take it every single day when we work out, when we feel a little dehydrated. If you're somebody that kind of gets headaches

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I can't come to their birthday party, I don't know what to say. I'm maybe not the right person. I couldn't come to the birthday party before anything was going on. I think that you have to have friends that understand the ebbs and flows of it, and you're going to do what you can. And if you can't have friends, if friends are guilt tripping you, it's just for me at this point in my life it's not the right friend and i i think if you look through a lens of and this has really helped me is this worth being away from my kids the rule is you're allowed to celebrate your birthday 16 and under then 18 then 21 30 40 50 anything if it's your 37th birthday i'm not coming, the rule also is I hate to break it to everyone.

If you invite someone to your birthday, you need to pay. Don't invite a big group and then make 600 people split the check. You got to host. I like, hey, I'm sorry. Nobody cares about your 26th birthday. It doesn't matter. Okay. It doesn't matter.

I'm also with you, Lauren. That might have been some people, but I, yeah, I think that you don't get to do that. Tell them where to go, where to be, and then to not take care of them. If it makes either of you feel any better, because I hear you on the mom guild, because I hear it on this show. I grew up with a mother who was always working. And at the time, you know, who knows how you're prostituted, but in later in life, I'm really grateful for that because I, it was like such a strong example. And then I got to, I'm with a woman now who does the same. And I think when I think about it as a kid,

I think it was a good example because she still works and she needed to do it to be happy. And I've now been attracted to a strong woman that does it. And also a lot of my business relationships and interactions are with women that also work and do that. And so I don't think you should feel guilty because I guess what I'm saying is Birdie probably sees that example and it'll rub off in a positive way, in my opinion, just as someone who grew up with a dog. I get though what you're doing by moving to the ranch. I had to move to Austin. Sometimes you have to step out of the noise to gain clarity. Did you feel like that? Oh, entirely. There's so many layers. And actually, before I get to those layers, one thing that was relevant to the conversation about why

you're saying yes and no to, I think some of the best advice my dad has ever given me is he said, Amber, when you say yes to something, you say no to something else and make sure you know what the no is. And I was like, wow, that is, that is just becomes really clear because there's so many things like that you're offered and opportunities, right? Like come speak at this, host this thing. And some of them are like wonderful things and with wonderful people. And it's like, well, that means that this week I don't get to go on a date night with Baxter.

That means this week my kids saw me twice or whatever. And so like, is that the exchange that we're going to make here? But coming back to the clarity piece, I think that there was, there was a lot like, you know, we had for the first many years of our business, Baxter and I literally at some points were basically sleeping at the office. We did not even take weekends off. It was nonstop. After we got married, we started taking weekends off. So that was in 2014. And then let's see, once we had Birdie 2015, we actually started working more normal hours. I'd say like 8 830 to five to me. That

was like short day because I was like, oh my gosh, if I actually keep working like this, I actually, Birdie will live in my house and I will never see her because I'm going to leave before she wakes up and then I'm going to come home after her bedtime. And like, we could literally be like roommates at this point. So coming home earlier was like way healthier, but, and then like hiring people. But we had, I think, you know, as we all know, like your friends start having kids, they start like hosting these things and they're in leadership positions or they're leading the fundraiser or whatever. And you want to be supportive of them. With four kids though.

Oh, I mean. I mean, you got your friends that got to understand it's a season. No, it is. It's a season. Hang on. If you're my friend right now, hang on. I'm doing my best. I think people with kids understand, but it's hard to explain to people without kids. Like I have a lot of guy friends. There's people with kids that don't understand, Michael. Michael, you got another hour? Yeah. But you know, I mean. I want to talk about, because it would be crazy for me not to talk about this, investing. Oh, yeah. Well, jump back really quickly though to finish the conversation on the ranch thing, because I think I'd basically gotten to this

point where like I had I was fully responsible for this life that I had engineered for myself, but it was it was unmanageable. And I think that everything in life comes back into balance. And like the pendulum had just swung way too far. And I needed just like alone time and peace and honestly, just even like health like the comment about the diet Dr. Peppers that was like oh yeah I was drinking like four a day Dr. Peppers good too I'm sorry you know what how did I mess that up I remember it was Dr. Pepper oh yeah no I mean constantly but I was just I didn't even know about the choice I didn't have time to think about the choices that I was making and so we moved to the ranch I actually I got a

new doctor that was going to work with me remotely I I did tons of blood work because I was like, I can actually feel since my fourth child, like something is wrong in my body. And my other doctors were not figuring it out. And so I switched to this other doctor, do like tons of tests. He's like, oh, actually you have this one hormone that is four times past the, like the like highest bound of like what's normal. I can't believe you're even just like functioning like this causes like hair loss, rage, sleeplessness, like all of this crazy stuff. And I was like, well, that makes sense because I thought I was just really stressed out. He's like, oh, yeah, it'll make you really stressed out, too. So honestly, getting all that worked out and then just like through like natural means and then getting space for myself to just like

breathe and become candidly healthy. It's now been a year and it is like tremendous the amount of like personal progress I have made. And I told myself that we were going out there for the kids and me to spend more time with them. But candidly, like this has been a health journey all my own where like I feel so much more just like centered than I did before we left. I would encourage that for anyone. Like I had no idea what was going on my body and neither did anybody else. I know you guys focus like a lot on health and that's been a huge part of our story this year is like cooking at home, understanding our ingredients, just making a lot of different choices. We thought we were informed before and we had no clue how uninformed we were.

Is there anything wellness-y that you guys do together all the time? So Baxter is more of like a workout nut than I am. He has like started running. And so now he's like running half marathons and marathons. So he'll be back at the New York marathon this year. But you've had four kids and you look so good. Is this genetics? It is actually genetics. He really wants me to run with him. I have very little passion for running. I like lifting weights. I like feeling and being strong and like being healthy. So anyway, I've become way more active because of his like encouragement. But he is like running daily.

We've got a sauna and like a cold plunge. He does that. I'll do the sauna. I'm not into the cold plunge. But I had no idea even how much like sodium. I mean, shocking. I was drinking four Diet Dr. Peppers. But like the amount of sodium that was even in my body, like cutting out fast food.

There's no there are no restaurants within an hour of our house. And so we cook every single meal. And I mean, even that I feel like my body just like fully deflated. Like you can look back to pictures years ago and, you know, even having like a cow protein allergy, I had no idea that I had that. And you're just like, wow, I just looked, I might've been around the same weight, but I just looked different. Yeah. I get that. But I think sometimes it requires, and I've said this on the show, a change in environment to start looking at all that stuff clearly. Yeah.

Like, you know, we lived in LA. That's what rehab is. Yeah, sure. But we lived in LA, which is arguably a healthier place than many areas of the country. You have a lot of alternatives, but when we were there, we were not healthy. You know what I mean? You're like, you get so caught up in the pace of the business and the pace of the environment and the people you know and the family and this and that. And you kind of don't have time to stop and breathe and think for a moment. This is obviously not the country where we live in Austin.

But for us, we came out here isolated away from our family and friends and core group. And so really, we use this space as what you're talking about. And when we go to LA or New York, it's the other stuff. But I think for people that are struggling with their health and wellness and mental well-being, this is not as easy to do for everybody, but sometimes just a little move or a change in environment can just reset. It's like a reset. No, completely. And it allows you to be a couple. What I'm hearing from you is ejecting from even friends and family. It allows you to refocus on yourselves. And Baxter and I very much found that. All of a sudden, you have this extra

time for each other and for conversations and doing things together and learning things together. I think it's been really healthy for our relationship. I love our family. And I got to be careful saying this because I know many of them will listen. And we wish we were near them and we try to visit. I don't know if they'll listen. They might be sick of you. No, they're not.

I know they're tuned in. I don't know. I make it a thing. I call every one of them individually. Do you hear that? Anyways, but you know, with family, with friends but with family, with friends, you can get out. But with family, there's so many obligations and so many, again, birthdays and in-laws.

And it's hard to say no all the time. So having a little distance when we go, we can be really intentional about spending time. But it's like this hamster wheel. When we lived in San Diego, there was a family event every other Tuesday. You know what I mean? Right.

I think Amber understands after hearing your experience. I think that you have the advice is move away from your family. Just leave them, get rid of them. Oh my gosh. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You have gotten investments for LGK. I don't know what you've shared publicly. Maybe you can share it here, but I want to know how you prepare for that, how you did that with no experience, how you've grown on that. It was a shocking experience to me. Yeah. I know it's so much work. Oh my gosh.

So, you know, the bootstrapped round, that one was pretty straightforward. You know, it's now like if my friends are doing something I believe in or I believe in them, like I think that that's a, it's amazing to be at that level in a company that succeeds, right? I'm really glad that we, I have, I have like two sides of the story, I guess. So we raised that round. Our series A was not until way later and it was like around 10 million. That was the most miserable process I've ever been a part of. Why? I felt like the contracts they were putting for me were usury. And I told people that. Your intent has went up. Yeah. I was like, wait,

I've been building this business. I did this thing. I'm the critical person, but you get to run my board and my company and own most of it. And it, you know, it just, there was just a lot of terms that when you got down to it, it was terms that maybe actually on the surface looks like everything's great. Like I'm getting this investment, they get this point. And then you go down to like the stuff they get to control. And you're like, well, actually they control everything because they control this stuff. And so I found it really offensive. There was one group that we got to truly the finish line with day of funding and it fell apart. And that was the group that I really struggled with the entire time. And we flew out to San

Francisco to have breakfast to talk it out. Because I was like, I get that you think that I'm just like, you just don't get it Amber because you've just never raised money before. And you're just not in this industry. And this is just how things work. And I was like, this is so highly offensive to me. And so of course, you know, Baxter had been in the industry. He took it a little bit less personally, but I think probably also appreciated that I actually said what anyone should have been saying, which is like, this is so ridiculous. So, you know, you go on this whole like roadshow tour, you're showing everyone your stuff again, back to like context of time. This was when, so this was 2015 was our series A. I was pregnant with Birdie. I didn't share that.

Like one of the investors we walked in and the receptionist was like, okay, Baxter's here. He brought his wife. I was like, okay. So that type of a context, but also people didn't know the word blogger. This is pre-dictionary. So this is like a couple from Dallas who is like young, is in this industry that no one gets or understands. They're not personal users of, they're not buying things online. Like there's so many kind of roadblocks at that point. Now it's a highly investable industry, of course. So how did it change on your second round? So after that, we were like, we're never doing this again. But quickly, for those, for young founders that are maybe going through this and thinking about capital, what are some of the maybe terms or things you would tell them to look out for in

hindsight? And now that you've done this in so many subsequent rounds? Well, I have a couple of things too, just about fundraising. It's been glorified by the industry. Like there's a PR machine that makes raising money like the sexiest thing. And I remember we used to launch all this stuff. And I had this PR background. I would write into TechCrunch. I'd write into all of these stuff like, hey, we just launched this. Or we hit this threshold.

Or like this many users or whatever. And they're like, great. What's your valuation? I'm like, well, we're a family owned like private company. And they're like, great, well, who are your investors? And I was like, my dad and my friend, you know? But I'm like, but what does it matter? Because we just like hit all these metrics

and literally no one would write about us at all. And so the first, that was like really frustrating, but I would also tell people if you, and I think probably, I don't know if this was said on your podcast or someone else's, or like if this was in conversation with like Gary Vee, but like if you have and I think probably, I don't know if this was a set on your podcast or someone else's, or like if this was in conversation with like Gary V, but like if you have a billion dollar business, but you're losing 300 million, you don't really actually have a business. And so it doesn't matter like the scale and what all you have going on. If you like,

I'd rather sell $10 and like make nine, like I did better than that other group. And they worked a lot harder for it than I did. And so I think that you have to really think, are you a business that needs investment, requires investment? Is that really like what is the ultimate like kind of outcome? What are you doing with this? For us, there was two things. One, we needed to attract better talent. We felt like in order to do that, we needed to actually get written about. We had ideas that we couldn't fund. So it was like, we can fund like slow growth, but we knew exactly where we're going. We know that this works. We've already proven it out. And so we wanted to basically pull our roadmap forward. You knew exactly what the capital is going to be used for. It wasn't like this,

hey, I'm going to raise $10 million and we'll figure it out along the way. No. Yeah. And you're so right because so many publications, all they want to write about is the amount invested. And a lot of times, say they want to write a is the amount invested. And a lot of times, say they want to write a piece on you, if you won't give them that information, then they don't want to do the piece. And sometimes it's not beneficial to that founder to give that information. And again, I think that it's such a weird way to justify an exciting business by the amount of money someone's raised, Because it's the thing. Is the thing working or not? Right. And then I think there's this layer too of edification. There are

investors who can sharpen you and help you see around corners as just business owners and thinking through the big picture. And certainly we were early in our career and just young too. And so there's opportunity to be sharpened in that way. But when you're looking for an investor group, finding someone who can be aligned with your outcome, like is your outcome short or long term? That matters, right? And what kind of experience do they have or what sort of network or do they even understand the business that you're in? There's so many things about it. I think going in, people are like, I just want to raise from anyone who will give me a check. But then your job becomes investor relations. And then you're dealing with either an unsophisticated group or a group that's

misaligned. It was a really upsetting and stressful time. And you have someone in your business. Later for series B. So after that experience, we were like, we're never doing this again. And we were like, we're going to become profitable as quickly as possible. And we already basically were, but not meaningfully profitable. We, for many years before the SoftBank investment, were profitable and had been making distributions actually. And we were like, we have to own our future. We cannot be sitting here waiting for either someone to invest or buy or go public or whatever. We need to have every option on the table. And the way that you do that is be,

ideally for everyone, be a growth company and be profitable. It's so funny to, if you're pulling the lens way back, of course, be profitable. And if you need capital to do something faster and it makes sense, great. But not at the need of like,

you're burning all of this money constantly to the point where like, if someone doesn't fund you, your company's dead. Right. Right. Then they don't have a company. No, completely. And like that, that just limits all the risks that you can take. You get in a bad situation and then you're raising again. And then guess what? Your stock is actually worth nothing. Your stake is worth nothing. So then you're a slave to something because your name's attached to it because then someone else like owns the whole thing. Like there are so many dynamics

involved in that. So where are you guys at now? Yes. Our family still owns the majority of the business. We've done a series B. We raised capital from SoftBank. So they had pursued us for many years. We were in a position to make a lot of decisions, whatever decision we wanted to at the time. What I found really interesting in our conversations with SoftBank, which if you know SoftBank is typical of them, I had never had this experience with an investor before. If they're passionate about you and you as an investment, they're going to push you harder than you can push yourself. And this was the first time that I had A, three females walk into the room and come to Dallas and be there several times and then say, tell me your dreams. And over the

course of like months and weeks, whatever, we like laid out our roadmap and what we were doing and all this stuff. And they're like, you're not dreaming big enough. And with like a dead serious face. And I was like, wow, everyone has always told me like, this is going to kill you. This is going to take you down. Like this is not going to work because whatever. And it's just like, you go into that sometimes like wanting to be sharpened the second time, you know, but to actually hear that, I was like, wow, and you guys have seen a lot. So like, let's go. So they bought into the business. And again, it was like pull roadmap forward. Like we know what we're doing. We know what levers that's going to look like. And so we grew from just over 300 to now 800. And it's, you know, I would say actually just now like

April. So that was like December of 21. So basically what, like two years later, it took us all that time to kind of like hire and then like also kind of curate within that hiring, like making sure that these are the right people and this is the right things to be doing. But this month there's so many products coming online that I'm like, this is what I wanted. Like this is what I thought having this many people would be like and get to do. And it's just like Christmas every day. So it's, yeah, a 14-year overnight success story. Amber, if people want to shop your LTK page with all your beauty,

your diet, your clothes, your jewelry, where can they find you, number one? Yes. So the vast majority of my content, all plus more is on at Amber Vins box on LTK. And I'm at Lauren Bostick. So you guys can go look at all. I have every single thing you could possibly want linked there. And if there's someone that's listening, that's a micro influencer, a macro influencer that wants to start monetizing through their affiliate links on LTK, can we leave a link in the show notes where they can go apply? Let's do it. And on LTK, you're earning both a transaction revenue, so a commission on all the

sales you're making, but also half of our business is the collaborations business. And so we're selling everything from talking about the right product at the right time to we just actually launched Connected TV. You can make commercials for brands there. You can license your brand. Like they're actually, we launched a product last year, even called marketplace. We can go in and like actually brands post all the campaigns they have running. You can pitch yourself for them. We've actually tripled the number of campaigns that are running over the last few years. And it's already half of half of the business. And so however you need to monetize your business and to do it like in a really integrated, natural way to the platform, it's on LTK. Also, if you guys like Skinny Confidential products,

we are on Shop Skinny Confidential is on LTK. So you can go apply to LTK, get accepted, and then you can go talk about all the Skinny Confidential products you want and make a commission. Amber, where can everyone find you and LTK? So LTK on the app store, whatever app store that you're using, go download LTK stands for like to know it, but we've shortened it. And so LTK app. And of course we're across all social media. And then for me socially, I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn, both at Amber Vinsbox. And then really, if you actually want to see what's really happening in my life and on an up-to-date basis, it's all on my LTK. Thank you for doing this. Thank you for coming on. Go read the blog post that I did on Amber. It's a vintage one. Hope you love that episode with Amber. Don't forget, Mint Roller has launched. The ice roller

for the girly on the go is live on shopskinnyconfidential.com. One side is a contour and the other side is an ice roller. It truly is the sweetest little treat that you can throw in your clutch or handbag. You can use it during a workout. However, whenever I just used mine for an entire week while I was traveling and it was a lot lighter than the ice roller. So I think to have one at lot lighter than the ice roller. So I think to have one at home is your iconic ice roller. And then to have one that you can throw in your bag really is the move. Go to shop skinny, confidential.com before it sells out.