The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Aviator Nation Founder Paige Mycoskie On How To Forge Your Own Path, Follow Creativity, & Turn Your Passion Into An Empire

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

#520: On today's episode we are joined by Paige Mycoskie. Paige is an artist, fashion designer, and businesswoman, best known as the founder and owner of the Lifestyle / Fashion Brand, Aviator Nation. Today Paige joins the show to discuss how she chased her passion to create one of the largest fashion brands in the world to become one of the wealthiest women in business. We discuss how to forge your own path, follow your creativity, and turn your passion into an empire.  To connect with Paige Mycoskie click HERE To connect with Aviator Nation click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Our BIGGEST sale of the year is coming up on 11/25. Like, 25% off products and 30% off our kits. To get early access, sign up for our email list HERE. This episode is brought to you by Manscaped No hygiene routine is complete without MANSCAPED. Your balls will thank you. Get 20% off and free shipping by going to www.manscaped.com/SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Mindbloom Mindbloom is the leader in at-home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science-backed medicine with clinician and guide support for people looking to improve their mental health and wellbeing. Go to Mindbloom.com/TSC and use code TSC for $100 off your first six session program This episode is brought to you by Canopy The Canopy Humidifier’s clean moisture combats dryness, sensitivity, dullness, and fine lines & wrinkles. This humidifier promotes a healthy skin barrier and increases the efficacy of your topical skin care products. Use code SKINNY at checkout to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase on getcanopy.co . This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Use code SKINNY25 on cymbiotika.com for 25% off sitewide or create your custom bundle and get up to 55% off. This episode is brought to you by Just Thrive These days, stress seems to hit us from every possible angle in any environment at any time, day after day. Enter Just Calm - the breakthrough new stress and mood support formula from Just Thrive. Yes, the same Just Thrive that produces our favorite probiotic! Get 15% off Just Thrive probiotic + Just Calm supplement dynamic duo bundle or any of their other scientifically proven products at justthrivehealth.com/Skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout. This episode is brought to you by Match Dating Match believes the most important relationship is with yourself. So, in a world where you can choose to do anything–or anyone–choose you first. Download the Match Dating App today. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. it. And I'm going to be honest, it was difficult in the beginning, but now I don't even think about it. And one of the reasons I don't even think about it is if I ever feel the itch or if I'm ever out publicly or socially, and I want to partake and get a euphoric feeling, instead of alcohol, I take this euphoric kava drink called Feel Free by Botanic Tonics. We've talked about it on this show. We had the founder, JW Ross, on the show. It's an incredible drink. It's just this one little tonic. It's got kava. It's got kratom. So you do have to be a little bit careful. Make sure you're not consuming it all the time. And I take it instead of alcohol. I use it, you know, going out socially, then have a little bit of water with it. And honestly, it's been a game changer because I've been able to completely kick alcohol out

of my life, still kind of get that social euphoric feeling and in a much healthier way. So like I said, to try it out, we have a 40% discount code for you. All you have to do is go to Botanic Tonics, that's B-O-T-A-N-I-C, tonics.com and use code skinny40. And if you've already used that code because it's a one-time code, we have a special offer just for podcast listeners. If you use code skinny240, you can do it again to try it again. I suggest doing the subscription to get the biggest discount, but it's up to you. So check it out. That's botanictonics.com and either code skinny40 or skinny240 for 40% off your entire order. It's a great offer. Enjoy. Probiotics. Let's talk about it. Let's also talk about psychobiotics. I learned recently from a podcast that we did with a microbiologist how the two work in tandem. They're like yin and yang.

So both of them are all about a healthy gut. We have probiotics, which give you good bacteria, and then the psychobiotic, which helps wind you down at night. Both of them are incredible, like I said, for the gut. The most important thing, though, that you can look for in probiotics and psychobiotics is survivability to the gut. And I am on a mission to talk about this because I feel like before having Just Thrive products, I was using a probiotic that didn't even survive to my gut. So I would take one every single day and it was doing nothing. Whatever you do, whatever probiotic you buy, whatever psychobiotic you buy, you want to make sure it survives the trip to your gut. Very,

very important. I personally like Just Thrive products because you don't have to keep them in the refrigerator and I'm always traveling. The one that I have is their probiotic. I have been talking about this for the last three years. And I also have this product called Just Calm, and that's the psychobiotic. And what that does is it increases mental clarity, focus, alertness. Like I said, we had the microbiologist on. You can go back and listen to that episode to get all the details. So those are the two products that I would recommend on their site. It's really like a superpower duo for your gut and your immune system and your mood support. If you're ready

to up your game and feel your best, you get 15% off this dynamic duo bundle. And on any of their other scientifically proven products, when you go to JustThriveHealth.com and use code SKINNY at checkout. That's JustThriveHealth.com, code SKINNY. smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. We didn't shop online. I mean, it was all in person. For me, you know, it was the street fair. Like that was where I thought that I needed to go. And then it was the trade show. I found out about a good trade show that

I could do. It was expensive. It was like $5,000 to do it. So I put all the money into it that I made at the booth and I went out there. I ended up making $150,000 in sales in a couple of days. So I realized obviously I had a business on my hands at that point. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. Hope you guys are coming off a great Thanksgiving break and getting ready for a fire episode. Today, we have one of our favorite guests today, Paige Mykoski on the show. Many of you may recognize that name. She is the founder of the well-known fashion brand, Aviator Nation. And this is a hell of a story. Talk about a go-getter.

We cover everything from how to start a brand, whether you should take investment dollars or not, when to take dollars, when not to, types of controls you want and don't want, how to get through struggle, how to get the right mindset in order to operate, how to overcome hardships. We really cover it all. This is an incredible story of somebody who's built a brand that has become massive. Paige herself has become one of the wealthiest women in the country because of her tenacity. And she really lays it all out on this episode. This is definitely one of our favorite episodes. Definitely going to have her back. With that, if you're unfamiliar with who Paige Mycoskie is, Paige Mycoskie is an artist,

fashion designer, and businesswoman best known as the founder and owner of the lifestyle fashion brand Aviator Nation, which I'm sure many of you know. Lauren and I both personally love their products. They make great handmade American stuff. And Paige is the lead designer on all of it. So again, guys, this is an incredible episode. There's a lot in here to unpack, a lot of gems dropped along the way. So get your notepad. Paige, welcome to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. All right, Paige, tell us about your childhood, how you grew up way before Aviator Nation, before all your success. What did that look like? Yeah, so I grew up spending a ton of time with my grandmother, my dad's mom specifically,

and she was extremely creative, really into design. She actually made clothes. She was a seamstress. And when I was little, I used to go over to her house and hang out in this loft she had that was like her art room. And I was obsessed with organizing all of her little beads and thread and all of the stuff. And it was really interesting with her because growing up with her in my life, every time I would go to her house, she would be like, what do you want to learn today? And it's so interesting because I actually have learned so many things and I love a variety of things and I'm really into hobbies. I have a ton of hobbies. And I think that that played a huge impact in my life just to know that you can like literally learn anything and really in a day, you know, I mean, it was stuff that she didn't always know how to do. We would go to a craft store and get

a how-to book and learn how to do pottery or learn how to sew or whatever. But anyway, that was a huge part of my childhood. I grew up with two brothers. I'm a middle child. I have a younger brother and an older brother. My parents were very involved in my life. My dad was a doctor and he was actually working quite a bit. My mom pretty much took care of us. And then she started a health and wellness cookbook line that she spent a lot of time on. And she started traveling when the books came out and the books became really big. So I had kind of an interesting childhood because I was, my parents both worked a lot and I, they pretty much let me do kind of whatever I want. So I was able to dive into stuff that I really wanted to do.

And I never felt held back, which is pretty cool that I would just be like, oh, I'm going to do this today. And whether it was, you know, learning something. And I think like being really young with my grandma and learning, you know, how to do a lot of things. And then the next stage was kind of having a lot of time to myself and the flexibility of parents that really were just, they were in my life, but they were also doing their own thing and super busy with their own work. And so it allowed me to kind of have time to just be by myself and really just, you know, learn what I love to do. So everything you're saying is it's almost like they made you the perfect resourceful child. Yeah, super resourceful. I pretty much another thing is my dad really, you know, even

though he was working a lot and concerned with himself, I think that he also wanted me to, you know, he came from my grandma who wanted me to learn a lot. So I think he also wanted me to kind of figure things out on my own. And and he always told me to just figure it out, you know, whether it was something major that I was in or something small. And I think that, yeah, it made me super resourceful, which I'm so thankful now that I have that. It's so important. I tell Michael, I say, all I want, the number one thing for my kids is to be resourceful. And I think that I love what you're saying, like they were in your life, but you were also learned to be independent. I think a lot of children, sometimes they have parents who are too codependent, like they make them too codependent on them or they go the other way and they're just not in their life. And there's a middle ground there, I feel like. Well, you want your kids to have independence because you get into the real world and it's required.

Yeah. I mean, you know, some people don't have it and it becomes kind of a mess sometimes. No, totally. I mean, I have friends, you know, all over the spectrum that had parents that were, you know, really, really in their life and just all up in their business and controlling and every little detail they had going on, you know, trying to tell them what to do. And mine for sure were not like that. And I think that, you know, people really, it plays a huge role in the rest of their life, you know, like being able to kind of make your own decisions, figure your own stuff out, you know, like otherwise later on, you're going to face stuff anyway where you have

to figure it out. It's nice that I learned that early on, you know, because I was ready for it later when, you know, shit hit the fan, which it does all the time in business. So it's nice that I have that behind me because people are always like, how are you so patient? And I'm like, well, I mean, you know, stuff happens, you know, you just kind of roll through it. And I feel like no matter what happens, you know, I have this kind of mentality of like, I can figure it out. At what point did you start to take interest in the career that you have now?

Yeah. So I was in, I was in college at Arizona State. I went there specifically for journalism. I love to write and I love to do art when I was little also. But I thought that writing was something I wanted to pursue. And I was pretty driven on the journalism track. I wanted to start a magazine or write a book or whatever. And I was in school and I started realizing that I was kind of bored with just the writing. So I got into photography and then I minored in photography and I started just realizing how much I love the creative of photography. And I was developing stuff in the darkroom at that time. It was kind of like when film was making a transition into digital. So I

was learning digital and print film. And so that was really fun. But I realized when I was doing photography, how much more I love the visual. And so anyway, I was learning design programs and stuff because I was doing Photoshop on a lot of my photography. And then I would play around with Photoshop and start doing other designs. And I realized that, OK, like maybe I'm really going in the more creative direction, like writing was just like whatever. But I thought that I wanted to like be a writer. So it was interesting that I made this big transition in college. And then when I got out of college, I moved to California. I did an internship with Shape Magazine. And I realized that and I was doing photojournalism there. And I realized that I didn't want to work in an office. I'm like, you know, it's fun to do photography and stuff,

but I just don't want to work in office. And I was shopping a lot and like thrift stores and flea markets and stuff in L.A. because there's so many great ones. And I realized how obsessed I was with clothes. And I knew like from a young age, I was always obsessed with clothes. I was always obsessed with fashion. But when I was at that period of time when I was living in California and I started going to flea markets and whatever, I realized that this was like a super passion. And then I got a job at a surf shop just for fun. I always like to have a lot of jobs, actually. So I was like doing a surf shop. I was like I was working at a surf shop. I was waiting

tables. I was doing photography on the side and working in the surf shop. I realized how much I love this kind of small business surf shop thing. It was just fun. I had all these friends that were like, you know, we would do the fashion stuff and we would stock the clothes, but then we would talk about the surf. And I just, I think I really love that kind of small business mentality of, you know, hanging out and really becoming a family with the people that you work with. And I loved working at, it was ZJ Boarding House in Santa Monica. And I absolutely loved working at the surf shop. And that was when I realized like that I just loved retail. And I actually bought a sewing machine just because I wanted to learn how to make some clothes because I was working at the surf shop and I was an assistant buyer,

the main buyer there. And I was looking through, because when you're an assistant buyer, you kind of enter their orders. And so I was looking at what he was ordering and I was watching what was selling in the surf shop. And I was just like, you know, like this shirt would be cool, but like, it would be so much better if like you did this to it. Yeah. I was like, in my head, I was editing everything and everything from the shoes to the jeans, to the t-shirts and even the skateboards. I was like, oh, I want those stickers to be a different color. And I realized, wow, maybe I want to start making my own stuff. And it really was just for me at first. And so I bought a sewing machine and I started making clothes for myself. And it was wild. I literally would stay up all night long. I would go to work

in the day and I'd get home and then I'd sew all night. And I just wanted to get the perfect fit and the perfect softness. Just as a hobby for yourself. Just as a hobby for myself. So I just became obsessed with making clothes. I realized I could make anything. You know, I realized, oh, like this is so cool because I already loved fashion. And I'm like, I can literally make anything I want. You could see something in a store or see something online and be like,

I could just do that myself and make my edits that I would want for myself. Exactly. And so I like, for example, I took my favorite t-shirt and I took it apart so that I could then trace it and get the pattern. So I figured, you know, I have no schooling in any of this fashion stuff. I just like literally took apart my shirt and was like, okay, I can figure out how to make this if I take it apart and see how it was made. And then I traced it. And so then I could make t-shirts in the same fit as my favorite shirt, but the way that I wanted them to look. And so anyway, it just became this thing. And so I started wearing the clothes that I was making to work at the surf shop. And everyone was like, what is that? What are you wearing? And I'm like, oh, I made this last night or whatever. And they're like, oh my God, that's so cool. I actually went

to action sports trade show for the surf shop shop and I was walking around you know as the assistant to the buyer and I'll never forget like people were coming up to me and being like what booth did you buy that at and I was wearing the stuff and it was it wasn't just like one or two people it was literally like all day long. What was it? You have to tell us what it was. Yeah it was a shirt that I actually sewed I took all different colors of t-shirts and I cut them into stripes like about two inches thick and then I sewed all the stripes together. So if you can imagine like a rainbow blanket, and then I made that into a t-shirt. Okay. We need you to do that though now too. We need another one. You got to bring that back. I feel like you needed to bring that back as a

throwback. Totally. What I love about your story is, you know, we have all sorts of different people on this podcast, different entrepreneurs. And a lot of them are like, you know, you come in and say, hey, I focused on this one thing and I did it forever. And what I love about this is like, it sounds like a lot of your life up until this point was very eclectic. You're doing all sorts of different hobbies, working different jobs, interested in many different things. And I think that's inspiring to a lot of people because especially for people that are starting out, like I never really knew what my passion was and still like figure it out. Right. And I think people feel like they got to figure it out so early on. And so they pick one thing and then they just stick with it forever. They don't

taste a lot of different things. But it sounds like in your case, you had tasted different kinds of careers, different types of hobbies, different types of occupations before you really found your thing and it blended all together. Totally. I'm all about just trying everything. I'm like, a little bit of everything goes a long way. Figuring out what you really love the most. I definitely did that. You're at the conference. People are coming up to you. What do you say? Yeah, I was like, I made this. And they're like, no way. That's crazy. And it was just so obvious that, I mean, it would have been ridiculous for me to not try to do something after that experience. And it really was. It was that day at the trade show that made me realize that I could sell this because these people are there

to buy. They're there to buy clothes for their stores and they wanted what I was wearing. So it just clicked. I'm like, why can't I do this? Why can't I sell this? Yeah. So after that, I came back home and I literally quit my job at the surf shop and decided that I was going to spend three months making as much clothing as I could. And then I was going to go to a street fair that was the Abbott Kinney Festival, which still happens. It's once a year, really fun street fair. And I was going to get a booth at the street fair for $500 and try to sell all the clothes that I made. So I did that and I made like $8,000 in one day selling, you know, t-shirts and sweatshirts. Wow. Yeah, that I made. And so then I was like, okay, this is a real deal. Like, I mean, if I can make that much money in one day.

So like after that day, I looked up, you know, how do you really sell this to stores? And I knew about trade shows. So I started researching what are the best trade shows. And I talked to some friends and stuff. And what year was this? This was 2000. This was 2006. Okay. So like internet's there, but it's not nearly what e-comm is today. Yeah, not at all. I mean, I was actually having this conversation with a friend the other day that like we didn't shop online. I mean, it was all in person, you know? So for me, it was the street fair, like that was where I thought that I needed to go. And then it was the trade show. I found out

about a good trade show that I could do. It was expensive. It was like $5,000 to do it. So I put all the money into it that I made at the booth. And I did project trade show, which is a big one. It used to be a big one in Vegas. And I went out there and that's a pretty crazy story because I basically set up all the clothes and I ended up making $150,000 in sales in a couple of days. So I realized, obviously, I had a business on my hands at that point, but that all happened pretty quickly. And yeah. So what do you think? So was there something that was drawing people to your boots? Did you start getting word of mouth? Were there people talking or wearing your clothes? And was there any known was drawing people to your boots? Did you start getting word of mouth? Was there people talking or wearing your clothes? Was there any known names

or like, hey, this person has real talent? And what kind of social media is around at this point? At that point, no social media. Nothing. Just like maybe Facebook. Yeah, like MySpace. Yeah, I don't even remember Facebook was a thing then. To be honest, it was MySpace because I know that because when I came back, I was looking for models and I ended up finding my girl on MySpace that I ended up using as my model.

So yeah, this was like super early social media days. But I mean. Lauren, you had a big MySpace presence. You missed your opportunity. Was I your model? What's that? My MySpace was Lauren. Lauren is hot.

Back in the day, Lauren's MySpace. Oh my God, I was your model? Her MySpace was a little racy. I don't know. My MySpace was r MySpace was a little racy I don't know my MySpace was racy hey I mean I don't know how you knew my MySpace

because we were dating that's really creepy that you were masturbating to my MySpace I was not dating you and you were not in my life you were there I would check in periodically

oh my gosh that's so funny so you found a model from MySpace and then how else Michael was saying did people see your clothes from wearing them? That sounds like a huge jump in that Vegas show.

Yeah, the Vegas show is a huge deal. And basically, it was really crazy because if you walked around the trade show, I mean, it's literally like gray, black, white, tonal, browns, whatever. I was really the only booth that was just like a rainbow of color. Like my stuff was always super bright and colorful. And it really stood out at the show because that's just not what people were buying back then. I mean, the whole surf culture thing wasn't a thing then. That happened kind of in the 70s and 80s. And then it went away.

There were no brands doing what I was doing. And obviously, I was inspired by the old surf culture of the 70s and 80s, obviously, because I was a kid at that time. But like nothing like that was happening. And so my stuff was super original and colorful and just different. And I think that people were just excited to see something different. A lot of stores, even I sold all over the globe. I mean, stores came in from Japan and stuff and and they were really into it. And I think a lot of times people look at like what they're into for in the fashion world and stuff. And I'll never forget, like I literally was in my booth and it was just like loaded with

people from all over the world. And I was like, there's all these cultures. They all love it. This is so crazy. And, and then you walked around and like no one, it was like crickets, like everywhere else. And then my booth was just like popping. And so I knew that, you know, other people loved what I loved and I just loved color. You know, I love to be comfortable and I loved color and I was always wearing the stuff, you know, when I was working in the booth. And I think that, you know, when they walk in a booth and it's not just like a showroom and a person trying to sell a brand, it's like the person that made it and they're talking to me and they're like, well, you know, what is this about? And I'm like, well, I just love to be comfortable. And I, you know, I made this in my garage in Venice and, you know, I think they love the story too.

Yeah. It's an, it's authentic story. Yeah. Because it really was me. It was me making clothes for myself and that's why I was so passionate about it. And so I think they love that like the surfer girl, you know, literally is like making surfer clothes, you know, and it's like the real deal. It's not like some company trying to make it look like a surfer brand. You know, it was a real, you know, situation with my lifestyle. I mean, my lifestyle is surfing and mountain biking and doing stuff like that. And I wanted to throw on sweats when I went to dinner. I didn't want to get all dressed up, you know. So that was my look and that was my style. And people just they loved it. You know,

this is before the whole athleisure. And, you know, like it was different to wear sweats to dinner, you know? What was your first business hiccup? Like looking back on everything where you can remember where you were like, oh my God, I don't know what to do here. Trying to think I was, I was rolling pretty good. I think that the thing is in the beginning, trying to remember what, like someone just came on here and said that what Benjamin Franklin said, it's good to have ignorance and confidence. No, it was Mark Twain quote. Oh, Mark Twain. Yeah.

I'm worried about your memory. That was like literally like an hour ago. I know. Ignorance and confidence. Or did you not even look at it as a hiccup? Because I'm like, I'm listening to you here. And when I hear the story, obviously, you had a ton of thought behind this, but did you ever intend to grow it to what it's become? Or was it just like, hey, this is a hobby

that's really just taking off and supporting my life? Or were you thoughtful and saying, this is going to be what it is now? I think that a couple years in, I was pretty confident that it was going to be huge. I actually, that's one thing. And it's always hard for me to answer the question of like, what did you do wrong? Or what was the big hiccup or whatever? And like, I don't want it to come off wrong. But like, anytime there was a hiccup,

I always turned it into like a positive situation. And I think that's what people want to hear you talk about. And that's what, you know, that's what I, those things made me grow. So I think now it's like, I've almost convinced myself that they weren't even hiccups. But there was a time I'm like remembering that I, because I was manufactured. I mean, I've always manufactured everything myself. And there was a time where these people came to me and it was a guy and a girl and they were like, hey, we want to help you manufacture like we can help you like be really organized,

whatever. They kind of like they kind of convinced me to hire them. And I hired them. And it was the first time that I really, cause I was literally going door to door, like taking the stuff to the dye house, taking the stuff to the embroidery, like in my car. And then once it got bigger, I had a U-Haul, I would drive around like when it got crazy, but like, I was literally going door to door and these people were like, oh, we can manage your production, you know? And, and, and anyway, I hired them and they ended up literally like taking my money and like disappearing and, and just, it was, it was awful. I mean, I, it was like, I think it was like 35 grand or something like that, that I gave them as a deposit. And then they basically just, you know, whatever

manipulated. Yeah. And so that was kind of a wake up call of like, okay, everyone's not good. You know, like, because again, you know, I grew up in Texas. I am a very positive person and, and optimistic. And, you know, I think that that was the first time just trusting someone without really diving into like their background and the references and all that stuff. Cause you just think, oh, these people are nice and they want to help and whatever. And okay. And so I, I learned on that moment that you can't trust people, you know, and it was the beginning of me realizing. And there's there's a few more stories similar to that where, you know, you trusted someone and they took your ideas and they went and made it themselves. And, you know, I mean, I've done this for 16 plus years. So like there have been a few stories that,

you know, people have taken advantage of me. So that was the first one though, where I was like, Whoa, you know, I need to be careful who I trust. And it was hard because I was still very young at that, at that stage. And to have someone kind of like take all your money when at that point, like that was a lot of money for me. So, you know. But it sounds like what you're saying is you're able to kind of look at these, what people would call hiccups and see opportunity in them.

I think that's so important to talk about because I don't want to talk about your parents a little bit more in a second because I wonder what the hell they were putting you and your brother's food over there to make these things. But I think that's such a skill, especially if you're going out on your own endeavors because stuff is always going to happen. And I think it's really critical being able to look at that stuff and say, okay, like there is still an opportunity within all this, as opposed to just rolling over and showing your belly. Yeah, totally. And I think that being, you know, taken advantage of and whether, you know, someone knocks you off or takes your money or whatever, like that kind of stuff, like it happens. And I think people that don't absolutely

love it, like end up kind of just like disappearing. And, you know, obviously on a bigger scale, it can happen too. And, you know, there's a lot of stuff with retailers and at times that don't pay you and whatever. And I think that, you know, when you get through that is when you realize like, wow, this is really what I'm supposed to do because I don't care. Like the next day I woke up and I was like, you know what, fine, I'm going to make that money back and keep going. And that just proved to me that like if something kind of major like that could happen to me and I was going to be just fine that, you know, I could get through a lot. So it gave me like an additional confidence that I know I carried with me. And, you know, and then I obviously changed, you know, how I asked questions to people and made sure I hired

the right people and all that kind of stuff, which, you know, it kind of sucks to not be able to just trust everyone. I like to do that, but you can't. It is hard to scale and build a team. How was it to scale? You said you went from a car to a U-Haul. And then what was the next step? And how did you handle scaling? When I did that trade show, the very first trade show, I took a friend with me to help me because it was just me. And that guy, I was like, look, it was like my best guy friend at the time. And he went with me. And at the end of it, I was like, I need you to now work for me because I need your help. So that was my first employee. And he's actually still with me today, which was pretty fun. We're still great

friends. Oh, my God. That's crazy. Yeah. How long ago was that? That was I mean, that was like 16 years ago or something. Yeah. But anyway, we came back. And of course, you know, again, I didn't go to school for business. But for me, it was always like we have to be making more money than you're spending. Like that was just like the common sense approach. And so for me, I'm't go to school for business, but for me, it was always like, well, you have to be making more money than you're spending. Like that was just like the common sense approach. And so for me, I'm like, okay, if I'm going to like be able to like, okay, I made these orders. So I have this budget, you know, this is what it's going to cost to make the clothes. This is what it's going to cost to have a staff, you know? So I pretty much broke down the budget and I realized what, like, that I don't have much of a budget at that stage, you know? And so I ended up

getting a couple interns to help. It was just a couple interns and me and this guy, Reid. And we basically just had that working out of literally my bedroom and my apartment for a while. And then as the orders, you know, came in a little bit more, then I hired another person here and there. But when I opened the Abbott Kinney store, that was my first retail store. That was when my team really kind of grew because I was forced to hire people to work in the store.

And that was in 2009. So I opened that store in 2009. I hired a handful of people to work in the front. And the store was, I still have the same store. And that store is really cool because the back is where the office was and the front is the retail store. So in the back was me and my intern and Reed. And then the girls in the front and the guys in the front, whoever was working for me, like basically, you know, they would help out in other areas when they could. But it was so fun. I realized at that time that it was so fun to have a team. And it's funny because I really needed just an office space. When I when I opened that store, I wasn't planning on like having a bunch of retail stores. I actually needed an office space because I was tired of working out of my bedroom. And I was looking around in Venice and I was like, oh, this would be so cool if we had

an office that was also a store. And this particular property had two buildings. And I was like, oh, we can sell clothes in the front and it'll pay for the office in the back. But it was more about the office, you know, and the space also had an outdoor area. And I was like, oh, we can have live music and have parties and stuff. But anyway, I kind of fell into the brick and mortar thing because I wasn't planning on that.

I was just selling to boutiques and I needed an office. And then when we opened that store, all these people were coming in and buying the stuff in the front. And I realized how much fun it was. I would come to work in the day and then I'd have my chats in the front and then customers would come in and I get to talk to the customers and learn about the clothes. And I really think that it helped me at that stage because it can get pretty boring, you know, selling just to boutiques and just to other stores, just to other stores, you know, and,

and obviously now online, you know, most people probably sell online and to stores maybe, you know, but like to have the brick and mortar for me, it made it so much more fun. You know, I came in, I put records on, we had a record player, you know, we had a coffee maker, we're all like hanging out. And then the customers come in, they're like, oh yeah, I love what you did with this hoodie. Like you should do this. Like we were chatting about the clothes and it was, it was almost like this, you know, kind of just brainstorm. I don't know. Like it just felt really exciting, you know, to be able to communicate with the customer all the time. That's so funny that you say that because your Malibu location, when we went there with Steve, we were getting drinks across the street at Malibu Farms and we walked over and it does feel like a place you can sit down, have a cup of coffee. It feels very

communal. It doesn't really, it feels like a shopping experience, but you don't lead with that. Yeah. And that's how it started. You know, it wasn't really meant to be a shopping experience. It was like a clubhouse for my friends, you know, and the neighbors because I was in Venice and I, you know, sold my first stuff on that street at the Abbot Kinney Festival. So having a store there, you know, people were coming in and they like knew me, you know, they bought the stuff at the street fair. They're watching me grow, you know. And so it was like a hangout. And we would have I mean, at the end of the day, we would sit out in the backyard and have a beer and and, you know, play some music. And we had we always had instruments all around because I just believe in having instruments all around all the time. And so, you know, we would sit back there. And I mean, it wasn't like work. It was like fun. It was and we were literally the lifestyle, you know, that that the brand represents. I mean, I had an outdoor shower. I had surfboards. We would go surf. We would come back. We would have a beer, hang out, play some music. And that was my life,

you know, working at the Abbott Kinney store, which I worked in the back office at the Abbott Kinney store for like seven years. And at that point, you know, it was just fun. And I was learning about the clothes. And then a couple of years after I opened that store, I opened Malibu and then I opened Manhattan Beach. And they had the same experience. You know, the kids and everybody that was working at those stores became best friends with everyone working there.

They hung out after work. They had music. It was just like an extension of what I was doing. And most of the people that worked at those stores started at the Venice store. And they actually, one of the girls that ended up going to be a manager of Venice is now my director of retail. So a lot of my big people now actually started at the ground level working in the stores. They just carried the culture. They just carry the culture. But I was really all about the culture. You know, for me, it wasn't

about making money. It was more about having a good time and making cool stuff. Well, I think that's how, for people that are listening for the business aspect of this, you unintentionally created a very scalable entity because people want to be part of that culture. I always think when companies make a mistake to not build a good culture, it's like nobody wants to stay in that culture. And then if you don't have good people, it's impossible to grow. No, the culture is number one. I mean, if I were to give any like business advice today, I mean, there's like a few things that I really feel strongly about. And one of them is the culture. It's like, make it fun because obviously not only like, should you hire the people that

you want to be around, but the people that, you know, like that are going to be part of like, they love the same things. I mean, I ask when I interview people, I'm like, what do you like to do? What, you know, because we all want to hang out and have fun and have a good time. And if you're not having a good time, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the reality is, you know, life is work. Work is life. You know, I mean, it's some people look at work as a bad thing. And I'm like, no, you know, work is what you create while you're living, you know, and it's like and it can be literally creating stuff with your friends and the people you love. And I mean, our culture is so fun. I mean, we have siblings and we have people that are married to each other. And, you know, I mean, it's crazy, like best friends, people living together. I mean,

you know, it's like a it's like this amazing group of people. And a lot of them, you know, I mean, it's crazy, like best friends, people living together. I mean, you know, it's like a it's like this amazing group of people. And a lot of them, you know, started with me in the beginning and it grew. And I've always been super supportive of people. I mean, like if they're having some kind of crisis or whatever, I'm like, take care of your family, take care of yourself. You know, I'm very supportive of that. And everybody that ends up going away to do something always comes back. You know, they always want to be part of it. And it's because it's a lifestyle. You know, it's not a job. It's like you come to work, you do cool stuff, you talk to fun people, you know, you sell clothes, whatever. And yeah, there is like some work involved. But like at the end of the day, you're with the people that you want to be with and you're having a good time and building something cool. Jingle balls, jingle balls. Michael, do you want to know what I want this holiday season? Sounds like my balls. I want some clean manscaped balls. And you know, I'm going to be stuffing your stocking full of manscaped, especially their performance package 4.0, or as some like to call it, the perfect package for your package. I want your package glowing like Disney on ice.

All right. In their Lawn Mower 4.0 trimmer, you're going to find the Weed Whacker for ear and nose hair trimming. You're going to find the Crop Preserver Ball Deodorant. You're going to find the Crop Reviver Toner, the Performance Boxer Breeze, and a travel bag to hold your goodies. You know what I'm also thankful for? The perfect holiday gift. Is their ball deodorant. That is genius. Every guy on the planet needs a ball deodorant. This is the absolute gift that keeps on giving. It's a hygiene routine for your balls and for your penis. Also, if you want

the balls to be smelling squeaky clean, you have to check out Manscaped's Refined Body Wash. It's their brand new signature body buffer. It gives you lather and the rinse that your balls deserve. So ladies, take care of the men in your life. Go take care of your dad, your brother, your uncle, your cousin. Just get them a whole Manscaped package. Literally every guy on the planet needs this. So if you want to save 20% off plus reshipping, you're going to go to manscaped.com slash skinny. That's right. 20% off plus reshipping by going to manscaped.com slash skinny. Everyone needs their stocking stuffed with Manscaped. Be thankful this holiday season for the best gift of all from Manscaped. Your balls will thank you.

Quick break to touch on a much requested topic, and that is at-home ketamine therapy. Yes, you heard that right. At-home ketamine therapy by Mindbloom. Lately, we have had so many conversations with doctors and health experts on the success they are seeing and having with ketamine therapy. As you know, Lauren and I are big on taking better care of yourself and not just physically. We believe the mental part is just as important, if not more. But sometimes you need a little more to achieve real and lasting breakthroughs. And that's why we wanted to talk about guided ketamine therapy from Mindbloom. So what is Mindbloom? Mindbloom is the leader in at-home ketamine therapy, offering a combination of science-backed medicine with clinician and guided support for people looking to improve their mental health and well-being. Lauren and I both know people

personally who have found a ton of success with ketamine therapy and why we like Mindbloom is because they connect patients with licensed psychiatric clinics and help achieve better results. To try Mindbloom, take their online assessment and schedule a video consult with a licensed clinician. If you are approved what you need to be, you discuss your health and history goals for mental health treatment and then Mindbloom will send you a kit in the mail complete with medicine, treatment materials, and tips on how to get better results. After only two sessions, 87% of their clients report improvement in depression and 85% report improvements with anxiety. That's huge results. Right now, Mindbloom is offering

our listeners $100 off your first six sessions program. When you sign up at mindbloom.com slash TSC and use promo code TSC at checkout, go to mindbloom.com slash TSC promo code TSC for $100 off your first six sessions program today. That's mindbloom.com Nation, your brother does Toms. That's what I was saying. What the hell are your parents putting in the food there? What's going on? What should we do? I have a girl and a boy.

Give me some tips. What do we got to be serving for breakfast in our household? What's going on? I'm going to do what your parents did. I want them to be independent. I'm not going to be around all the time, but I'll be there for them. Give me some tips. Yeah, it's so crazy. Blake and I actually started on the very same day. It was funny. He was in Argentina on a backpacking trip. He was tired of the job he had at the time. And he wrote in his

journal on the same exact day that I bought my sewing machine. So we think it's like so weird. Neither of us were in fashion or retail at all. I mean, I guess I was working at the surf shop, but we didn't think we were going to like start clothing. He was kind of in between jobs and he came back from his backpacking trip and he was like, hey, I have this crazy idea. You know, I want to start this shoe company. And I was in Argentina and it's this Argentina shoe.

And he started telling me about it. And I'm like, that's so crazy because I bought a sewing machine while you were away and realized that I'm obsessed with making clothes. I was like, oh my God. I mean, I remember saying, what if we both end up in fashion? This is so random because neither of us had a fashion background or anything. And your parents didn't either, right? Doctor and... No, doctor and author. And really my mom was kind of like a fitness kind of guru. So like the health stuff was always in the family, but nothing fashion at all. As far as, you know, what we did, you know, I think that the reality is just kind of having parents that, you know, we're not no

parents that are more like, yes, you know, and I think that, you know, I'd be like, oh, I want to do this. And I'm like, sure, do it. And like, obviously, if it wasn't a good idea or something or, you know, I'd screw up and it would come back at me, you know? And I think that just learning my own lessons and realizing, because I do think that the biggest thing that stops people in relationships and in business is fear, you know, like having fear. And I really believe that I don't have a lot of fear. They strip the fear out of you. They strip the fear. Yeah. It was like they never shot you down. But then when you when you did something and didn't work out, they would hold you to account in some kind of way. Yeah. And the thing is, at the end of the day, no matter how bad it is,

you're going to come out of it on the other side. And and you aren't going to experience you will not experience that if you're not doing things. If you're just in your safe zone, then you're never going to realize that you can have something major go wrong and come out of it. I think that the more you come out of stuff, the less fear you have. With business, it's all about taking risks and not having the fear. I really don't And I think that that is what makes me, you know, successful and good at what I do and also just able to start something, you know, that is obviously an industry that's incredibly difficult. I never thought twice about it. You know, I just did what I loved. And I'm like, if it doesn't work out, whatever, I'll move on, you know. And so, yeah, I think

that the fear, you know, Blake is the same way, you know, he really goes for it. And I don't see a lot of fear with him. And so that's so weird, you know, he really goes for it and I don't see a lot of fear with him. And so that's so weird that you say this weird. Michael and I were just having this conversation about fear with fear. You look for everything that can go wrong with both of you. It seems like you look for everything that can go right. And it's a very different mentality. It's scarcity versus abundance. Yeah. And I even think some careers out there teach you to look for the fear. Well, I think that's like, so I was at U of A, you were at ASU, but so I didn't have like the greatest academics, but I will say it's the Harvard of the desert.

But I watch a lot of my friends that were much more academic, nothing that's wrong, like different paths. But in a lot of ways, I feel like the modern school system teaches you to look for what's wrong in a lot of ways, right? like the modern school system teaches you to look for what's wrong in a lot of ways. And I think about that all the time. If I was paying attention more, I was a better student. Maybe I wouldn't be able to kind of do some of the things I do now because I would be trained more to look for all the stuff that would go wrong instead of what... My thought is like with ignorance and confidence, I only look at stuff that can go right. And so there's been blind spots and there's been hurdles and there's been what we call hiccups.

But if I went the other way, I might have never tried. Totally. I mean, look, it's all about energy. You only have so much energy. So are you going to like worry about everything or are you going to be like stoked and like push forward on doing things? Oh my God, that's exactly what it is. Why waste your energy? Yeah. A hundred percent. Totally. I think that goes for dating too. It goes for everything. It's like in any relationship, you know, people that struggle, it's like, what's the worst that can happen? That girl says no. The guy says no. You're exactly where you started with a little bit of a bruised ego. Which one of you really hit it big? Because obviously both of your companies have hit it

big first. Was it simultaneously? I mean, Blake's company was definitely a lot bigger than mine early on. And but mine was I had we both kind of had different strategies. And the big difference between Blake and I is he's very, you know, balls to the wall, like, let's go, go, go, which is great. I am much slower, much more methodical, much more like, hold on, I don't know. And it's not about fear. It's just about like really calculated risk and just being like, okay, like, for example, I turned down Nordstrom many times before I sell them because I was like, you know, if I screw up with Nordstrom, like it's a big problem. It's a lot of merchandise, you know, so I knew that I wasn't ready for it. And he would have been like,

oh, take the order. We'll figure it out. You know what I mean? Sounds like me and Michael. Yeah. Yeah. Totally the difference. Balls to the wall. I always say, I gotta wrap my head around things.

Okay, you wrap your head. I gotta wrap my head around things. You're balls to the wall. Yeah. And it's cool that we grew up, you know, it was actually really nice that we were in the same industry

with two different perspectives because we could, you know, sit around the dinner table at Christmas and be like, hey, like, did you do, like, what are you doing? Or what are you doing? you doing? We had a very different way of going about things. And for him, it grew faster because he was more balls to the wall. And I was more like, no, I only want to sell these small stores here because I want it to grow like this. And

I was really, really concerned about the roots of the company. I think for him, a big thing for him was let's make it as big as possible because obviously he was donating shoes. He wanted to sell as many shoes as he could so that he could donate as many shoes as he could. So he was really pushing it. For me, you know, I was more about, I want to be here forever. You know, I want this long brand. I don't want to be a trend. I want to be here forever. Slow growth, you know, and I really believed in like developing the roots and like not trying to just make everything. And, you know, a lot of times people get into the fashion world and they try to do everything and then they don't do it as well. And so I'm like, we need to perfect this and really focus. And so anyway, his brand definitely got bigger, faster. But then in the end, you know, I mean, now I'm as big as he was and now he doesn't run the company. He sold the company.

So it's no longer his company. I'm not sure how big they are now, but obviously, you know, his brand got huge. And now, you know, my company is as big as his was when he sold it. So you're still running it and I'm still running it. Yeah. And still growing. It's just different strategies. It's just a different strategy. We didn't even ask you this. I can't believe it. What is the reasoning behind the name? The name. So I, it's kind of funny. I grew up as soon as the movie Top Gun came out, I was obsessed with the Top Gun movie. Like I was obsessed with the confidence and style and,

and Tom Cruise and specifically, you know, just the way that they, they always wore these aviator sunglasses and, and I had the movie poster in my room and they're wearing the aviator sunglasses. And so I wore aviator sunglasses cause I thought that was like the cool thing to do. And so anyway, like ever since I was young and that movie came out, I was really into aviators and always wearing cool shades. And I had a collection of cool shades. And so when I was starting the company, I was sitting in my room and I was just making the clothes and I'm like, what am I going to call this? And I have this collection of aviators. And I was like, oh, I love the word aviator, you know, and it represents this classic style that just never goes away, you know,

and I really wanted the brand Aviator Nation to never go away. And so I was like, okay, aviators kind of like, you know, there's some synergy there with what I'm trying to do. And then, and then I, one thing I really wanted was the brand to bring people together. So a big thing that I do is, you know, in the stores and stuff is we have a lot of events and we get involved in the community. And I love bringing people together. And with the store, when I opened my first one, I love that like it brought the neighborhood together. And so Nation was like a thing because I'm like, OK, it's like this group of people with this classic style that kind of never goes away, you know? And so Aviator Nation became the name and the logo is A and the N together and with the stripes, which are supposed to represent the sunset because I just, I love the colors of the sunset and being outside and this outdoor lifestyle. Lauren, I told you for years, Tom Cruise is a fucking icon, right? Yeah.

I mean, he does look good in those aviator sunglasses. Listen, name an actor with more range. I don't think he's hot. Everyone thinks he's hot. I've never thought he was hot. Lauren, think about the range, okay? Hold on, I'm not saying the range isn't good. I don't think he's hot.

He's confident as shit in that movie. I agree with you. I just don't find him as a heartthrob like people find him. Have you seen the original Top Gun? Yes. Okay. So, I mean, the thing is... He's not my...

Lauren, you were never getting a coconut cake from him never it's sorry Tom no but like it's I think it's the confidence you know it's like bravado I get it I get that that makes sense I get I get that yeah and and they like put on the shades and like it was just like boom like the style of so simple just that one little thing and it's funny people are always like well why don't you do sunglasses and I actually am hoping to be making sunglasses soon. I just didn't want to make the shift until I was really ready. But yeah, so aviators are in like all of our photo shoots. I mean, it's like a thing in the brand. You've been content marketing for a long time. Just to have the moment to do aviators, it's about to happen. And you're going to sell out, I bet. Yeah. Investors,

a lot of people that were in your position are in your position would take on investors. And you decided not to. What was your thought process behind that? I never needed the money, to be honest. I, you know, when I started, like I said, you know, I made the money for the thing for the trade show. And then I went to the trade show and then I made the money to make the clothes. So, you know, the way that I looked at it is like, you know, people come to me all the time and try to invest. And they did even in the early days. I mean, Abercrombie, the guys that own that tried to buy it. And the thing is, it's like, you know, if somebody comes to you and like gives you money, obviously, like it's great. But then with that, you're giving up a bit of control, you know,

and obviously sometimes a little and sometimes a lot. But for me, you know, I never wanted anyone to change what I was doing. I really loved running the company. I love doing what I was doing. And I didn't need the money, you know, and in the back of my head, I'm like, OK, if I ever get to a stage where I really need the money, maybe I'll call one of these people. I mean, I kept business cards in the drawer for a long time. And the thing is, I just never needed it. And I'm like, if I have enough money to get this next year done, you know, then I can do it the way I want to do it. Nobody's coming over and taking control. And, you know, I'm my own boss. I'm not reporting to anybody, which for me was a big deal. And I did really believe and a lot of people would be like,

oh, you know, it's not just about the money. But then you bring on this team of people that has the expertise to help you and all this stuff. And the thing about that is like nothing was wrong with what we were doing. Like we were doing a great job, you know. And that's a big, I think, misconception in business is a lot of people think you need to bring in all these people with experience. But I'm like, I don't want to do something that's already been done. Like I want to do it a different way. You know, I don't want somebody to come in that ran this big company.

Like, how's that big company doing? I don't know. Probably not that great because most of them like, you know, fizzle away. I'm like, so I want to do things different. And if I bring in someone with all this experience, they're going to say, do it this way because this is how you do it. I'm like, no, like most of the time we do it a different way, you know, and we really do like when it gets down to the nuts and bolts of the business, we do things very different than a lot of other companies. And so I just, you know, I didn't want people around with a lot of experience. I wanted it to be evolving from, you know, this group that, you know, is just doing what they love and what feels good. And you can't you can't bring all these like, you know, business people in that have this experience and be like, oh, just do what feels good.

They don't like that. You know, they want numbers. They want all these business people in that have this experience and be like, oh, just do what feels good. They don't like that. They want numbers. They want all these things. There's no intuition. Sorry. I'm just saying there's absolutely no intuition. And there's some great investors out there. But let's be honest, a lot of these guys come up and do more damage than they do good in some cases. Or they put a business in a compromised position because they're looking at 18 other businesses and you're just a number on a sheet. When I first launched my ice roller, I was pitching it to an investor and he said, no one wants to roll their face. No one's going to use a roller on their face. And I was like, oh, you need a roller so bad. You're like, you need lymphatic drainage so bad under your eyes.

You're wrong. They just like, I just feel like they're not intuitive. Totally. They have other, they have other pros, but intuition. Yeah. I think a lot of these practices have been really glorified too, right? So like a lot of new founders or new entrepreneurs, they think like that's the only way to find success. You got to go and get that like VC to back your business, right? Because it's been glorified so much. You hear about all these companies that raise so much money, but the question is like, how many of them stick around? Exactly. That's the thing. I mean, I also feel that sometimes, especially at a young age,

like for a young stage in the company, if you have a ton of money, it's not the best thing for you. It teaches you to spend a lot of money, which is not the best way to do it. I mean, I did it bootstrapping and literally budgeting and all that because I had to. So I learned how to budget. I learned these things that later on are important. If you just throw money at somebody, they spend it too fast. You know, they make stupid decisions. They don't think enough because they're like, oh, we can buy that. We don't need to think about it. You know, even in today, like I'm like, OK, I have a little more money than I did in the beginning, obviously. But like sometimes when I just throw money at things, it doesn't help. You know, like you really you know, it's not the way to solve the problem. And so I think that having that as a crutch isn't necessarily the best way to build a strong company. You know, if you want to get in and get out, maybe, I don't know, that's a whole different situation. But if you want to build something that really lasts, that has roots, that's going to really grow and make a lot, you know, someday, it's like, you know, stick around. Like doing it with a ton of money is not the best way.

To your point too, I think you see this a lot of time with second time founders that have had a big hit because the first time they had to struggle so hard and hustle so hard doing 18 different jobs, working hours. And then you get the money and you start a second one. Like, oh, I'm just going to hire the same team I had at the other company here. But it's like, it's a startup again. And so you're just throwing this huge burn at something the second time because you don't want to have to go back and start the same way you did the first time totally i think about that all the time

because we have we talk about a lot of people sell a company and have big exit and then all of a sudden they're like restauranteurs or they're like a fashion brand or like they go into all these different categories they've never been in and they throw a bunch of money at it yeah and then it you know yeah you mentioned early on that there were lots of bumps in the roads and struggles what are some things that you can think about in your whole entire career so far where you're like, oh, this was such a struggle? Maybe you have perspective on it now. What are some of those? There was a point in time where I had a handful of retail stores and the staff was just not good. Like it had gotten to a point where I still had a few people that were great, but like it was it just wasn't good. I think that I hired people kind of fast because I had more stores and whatever.

And I wasn't checking references that well. And it was really interesting. And it taught me a huge lesson because it was just drama, like major drama in the company and really in all areas. And it was really breaking me down. And I remember just, you know, being like, oh, this like isn't fun anymore because I'm having to deal with so-and-so who doesn't like this person because this person slept with this person and this person. It was just like, you know, if you can imagine

just a bunch of people that aren't like the best people, you know, and, and I learned at that point, I actually decided to fire all of my employees. It was really interesting. I let go of pretty much every single employee. And for context, how many people was that? That was probably like 18 people. And I was one day, all of them. Yeah. I was just like, the fat though. That's the only way to do it. I think it's like slice off the mold. Yeah, totally. I literally was like, I am starting over. And, and so I let go of everyone except for a few key people. And I was like, look, now this is how we recruit. Like, like if you don't come in here and have a pot, like if you're not a positive person, I don't want you working for me. If you're not, I mean, I'd kind of developed this whole different outlook on who we should be looking to hire. And I had strategic questions that I would ask to try

to figure out if they were like super drama and like, what was one of those questions? I mean, like pretend like you're interviewing me i would be like hr ask these questions yeah i mean i would talk about you know if people come into the store and and are are being really like sloppy and and you know whatever throwing stuff around like what are you going to do like how are you going to handle it and you know some people would be like you know you can just kind of tell they're like they would just kind of be like oh you know like that's just so i hate when? And, you know, some people would be like, you know, you can just kind of tell they're like, they would just kind of be like, oh, you know, like, that's just so I hate when people do that, you know, like trying to kind of identify with me, like I think is what

their response was. But what then the person that's like, you know, I would I would put them in a good mood and turn them around and, you know, change their mentality or whatever, like the super, super positive people, like the guy that just surfed the wave and is like, oh my God, I love my life. Like that's the kind of person I wanted, you know, like the total opposite of someone that was just trying to tell me what I wanted to hear, you know, and I could tell that, you know, some people just wanted to like tell me what I wanted to hear. And then some people are just super positive no matter what you said, you know. And so like, yeah, those were the kind of people that I was looking for. And I think it made a huge difference because obviously it felt better for me to be around people like that. But you can tell when people love their life or not, you know? I

mean, if you're like, so what hobbies do you have? What do you like to do? And they're like, oh, I don't really do much. Like, you know, okay, well, that's a problem. You know, like you need to be doing fun stuff, you know? And just like kind of diving into people and finding people that are just genuinely happy was the key. The Skinny Confidential has launched a diffuser and humidifier with Canopy. You know about the humidifier because I launched it about a year ago. And now we have launched a diffuser, which is absolutely amazing. So this is going to make your house smell absolutely delicious. It's all five senses. That's my goal. So if you want to use this diffuser in the morning, we have a juicy spritz situation happening. So you

can wake up with that citrus smell. It smells like tangerines and grapefruit. And then during the day, we have a vanilla honeysuckle scent that smells so good. I handpicked each scent to make sure it really took you throughout your day. And then to wind down, we have incense, which is so zen and calming. So the diffuser is going to encourage vibes in your house. And then, of course, we have a humidifier with Canopy. You guys know about this. Their humidifiers are legit because they are mold free. So many humidifiers, and I've tried them all before launching this, are a nightmare.

There's mold. It's disgusting. You open them up. There's green stuff growing. This never does this. And the best part of everything is it can go right in the dishwasher when you want to clean it. It has mist-free hydration. It's invisible. It's clean moisture, which is the best for your skin and your health. I started to notice before launching this, I'm talking like five years ago, that humidifiers had so many beauty benefits for healthy glowing skin. And I noticed that every single humidifier on the market was an eyesore. So when they came to me with this idea to create a humidifier, I was immediately on board because I wanted something pretty for my own house and for you guys. There's nothing worse than having this huge contraption on your bedside. We have a deal for you. You're going to

go to getcanopy.co to save $25 on your Canopy humidifier purchase today with Canopy's filter subscription. Even better, use code SKINNY at checkout to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase. Trust me, your skin will thank you and you will have all five senses with your diffuser. Here's a big announcement, everybody. Symbiotica is having one of their biggest sales of all time. If you know anything about this show, you know how much we love Symbiotica. We love these products so much that the founder, Cherven, has been on three times. Any of those episodes are phenomenal to listen to. You can dive into any subject on there and understand why we love this company so much.

They have everything from your vitamin D3 to your B12 to your magnesium to your sleep supplements. They just came out with a creatine. They're completely changing the game when it comes to supplementation and they offer some of the best ingredients out there. Many of their products are liposomal, so you're actually eating the supplements as opposed to just taking them in pill form. And we've talked about these products for a long time now. Lauren and I are big fans. I'm not joking when I say I think I'm their biggest customer. I use my own code from my own show to buy their products consistently. As a matter of fact, we're taking so many Symbiotica

products that we run out consistently and have to keep placing orders. So I'm going to keep having to do more of these spots just to be able to afford their supplements. I spoke to Cherving, the founder, and they are never having another sale like this again. They're doing 25% off site-wide plus free shipping. And that applies on top of their custom bundle discount. So you can get up to 55% off. And you can do so by using our code SKINNY25 at checkout. Just go to Symbiotica.com for 25% off sitewide or create your custom bundle and get up to 55% off Symbiotica.com for 25% off sitewide or create your custom bundle and get up to

55% off. Code applies on top of custom bundle discounts. Again, that's symbiotica.com, promo code SKINNY25. Enjoy. Let's talk about the Match Dating app. Lauren and I have been on a crusade to figure out what the best dating app is, and we believe it is the Match Dating app. So many of these other apps

have such a hard time connecting people in the right way. It's all swipe here, swipe there, nothing serious. Nobody cares. Nobody's paying attention. Too much options. Nobody actually taking the time to vest in a serious relationship. And we all know, especially with our listeners, that they deserve the best when it comes to relationships. So what is the Match Dating App? Match is a place that believes the most important relationship is with yourself. So in a world where you can choose to do anything or anyone, choose yourself first. Because dating someone who knows what they want and won't settle for less, that is sexy as hell.

And Match's latest study of over 5,000 US singles proves it. Nearly 40% of singles say they feel more sexually empowered this year. And we say power to them. 53% say they find dating a helpful tool to learn how to be their best self. And 81% reported they engage in self-care at least monthly. Like I said, guys, this is an app where people that are serious about dating, serious about finding a partner, serious about finding a match. And I think people that are in that world and looking for that, they're going to have such better success using something like this, as opposed to some swipe app. Like I think people that are in that world and looking for that are going to have such better success using something like this as opposed to some swipe app, like I said. What Match does is it pre-vets a lot of this and it makes sure that people are actually matches with the same interests that are looking for the same kind of thing in the same kind of relationship. So check out the

Match dating app. It is definitely the place to find people that are serious about being in meaningful relationships. If you do you, you already know the best relationships show up when you show up for yourself first. There's never been a better time to try match download the match app today i think there needs to be a business that's like media training but for job interviews because to come into a job interview and for you to say what hobbies do you do and they say i don't really do much on what planet do you think that you're going to get hired at a job? Totally. I mean, I would have a fucking scroll about what I like to do. I'd be able to talk about it. I feel like there needs to be a boot camp media training for job interviewees. Totally. And like, I'm sorry, but hang out with my

friends is not a hobby. Like, hang out with your hobby. And that's like, you know what I mean? Like, if they're just like, hang out with my friends, and that's it. Like, you know, it's just not enough personal growth. No. You know, like, you need to have things you're interested in. And it was always, you know, people that were like doing activities or like art or music or something, they typically had like a better, you know, outlook on life because they were doing something that they love to do. They weren't just hanging out with friends. And, you know, I don't know, like, I mean, hanging out with friends is great. Don't get me wrong. But like you

need stuff to like have personal growth, you know. And so looking for people that really love their life, you know, became a big thing. And and then I started hiring these people and like everybody I hired was amazing. And honestly, most of the people I hired that year are still with me today. That's incredible. Yeah. Hanging out with friends is not getting outside yourself. Get outside yourself. This is my, like, I mean, listen, I'm all about inclusivity, but at the same time, like with inclusivity, like I don't want to work around a bunch of drips. Nobody does. Nobody wants to work around a bunch of Eeyores. Like you have to have people that are bringing good energy to any space, any relationship. And I think whenever you don't have that, it just changes the whole mood in the entire environment of whatever entity it is. So you can't let anyone in.

It has to be the right people. Totally. And I used to have a sign in my office that said, be nice or go home. And I would tell my employees, I'm like, look, if you're having a bad day, honestly, like stay home. Or, you know, if you come to work and like, you know, you're fighting with your boyfriend or your dad's sick or something like, I'm sorry, but this is not the place for it. Like you come here to get the positive juice, you know, like you come in here and we're if we're if we all come in, everybody is going to eventually have something going on. So then like every day somebody would have something going on and then that would become like the conversation. So I just said, leave it at home. Like it became a thing that it wasn't,

you weren't allowed to bring your drama to work at all because before it was like super drama. And then I let all those people go and I'm like, look, leave it at home. We're all going to be, you know, so much better for it. And then when you, and so it became a thing that you came into work and it was, you could only be positive. And so when you came in every, it was like the safe haven of like, even if you're having a bad time, when you come to work, like there's your positive, you know? And so we all started just pumping each other up and just being positive. And when it changes, right. We had, we had, we had that, there's somebody on that. One of the guests was the toxic positivity. and i was like really having a like like miscommunication because it was all about like talking about how talk like

positivity is toxic like you know this type of but i was like well what's the alternative right like we're gonna go in there and like be sad about everything like i don't want to do that and i don't want to condone it either like i think people should put on a positive attitude and you know a friendly face when you're out in public you just everyone has shit going on everyone's got a terrible day everyone's got a terrible day. Everyone's got a bad backstory. But I don't want to bring that into any relationship. I also think if you tell yourself a narrative that's negative,

it's going to hold you down. You have to tell yourself a positive narrative, I think, to uplift you. Because people get mad about this raw, raw toxic positivity stuff. But I'm like, since when is being positive toxic? I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. I even think like I talk to my team about this all the time. The way that you outreach for an email or email someone.

I don't want to open my inbox to an email that says, unfortunately. Yeah. That is like such a negative way. Right. Anyone that emails me, unfortunately, it's the worst word to start an email or. I'm sorry. Or I can't do this or I'm sorry, or I don't want to do that. Like, I just think there's a way to have like a positive spin on even your language.

Totally. I mean, it changes the way that you work. I mean, everyone that works for me knows that I, they can't come to me and tell me it can't be done. I have like a major problem with that. You know, I like don't allow it. And so I'm like, look, and when it does happen, because every once in a while, obviously someone's like, I can't happen. I'm like, OK, like I'm going to figure out how to do that. And when I do like, you know, you're you're in trouble. Like, you know, solutions. Yeah. I'm like, look, like if something's difficult, then bring me solutions, you know, bring me possibilities. But do not tell me something can't be done unless you really know that it can't, because if I can figure out how to do it and you're telling me it can't be done,

like, you know, your job is like on the line. I'm sorry. But like, I don't want the people like that around, you know, I want people because I mean, here we here we are doing something that a lot of people say can't be done. You know what I mean? Like there's not a lot of fashion brands that last this long and are still growing 16 years in and whatever and making stuff in America and doing, you know, all these things that people say like can't be done, you know? So I'm like, look, like we're already proving this. Like, so don't bring your life in here, like in a way that like, you're like, oh, this can't happen or we can't get that done or whatever. And it's like the joke in the company, because I mean, really, I mean, we have done so many things

that you would think can't be done. And that's why we're successful. And so you have to just change your mentality. And obviously, you know, we're all going to have stuff going on. But like, just don't bring it to work. You know, like go to dinner with your friends and talk about it or whatever. But like, just don't bring it here. Well, I like the reverse of that. And I always think about this.

It's like if you running this company, if you came in every day with all of your personal issues or personal problems, like it would destroy the company. Totally. It would destroy everybody's environment. Yeah. Nobody wants that. I mean, you really don't want that in that environment. To have an environment that's safe that doesn't have that is amazing.

It's like that one friend in the group that's always complaining, right? You're just like, oh, my God. Like, Jerry, you're such a – I don't have a friend named Jerry. But I was like, oh, you're such – you just don't want to hang out with them. It's like, I want to go, I want to go have fun. Totally. It's, it's also just, you can't be done to me screams lazy. It's giving lazy.

It's like figure out a way to make it happen. Eeyore is a character in Winnie the Pooh for a reason. It's to teach children not to be that way. Winnie the Pooh? Yeah. No, for sure. No one wants to be an Eeyore. No, but it's there to teach young children like this is not a way to behave.

What is Aviator Nation now? What is the future? What is your vision for this? I mean, my vision early on and now is still to be around forever. I think that now it's really all about continuing to come out with product and that the quality is amazing in all different areas. You know, I want to develop more. I'm developing a lot right now. I mean, we came out with this past couple of years, we've come out with denim and outerwear and plaids and like all kinds of different clothes, you know, aside from the sweats, which is obviously what we started with and what we do a lot of. But, you know, growing the product database and really just, you know, pushing, you know, the limits on quality

and a lot of made American products. Because, I mean, for one thing, you know, outerwear is a perfect example. I mean, there's like no outerwear made in America. It just doesn't exist. I mean, if you look into it, you will find that it's very, very difficult to find a company making outerwear in America. And that's something that is a huge part of what we wear. Why is that? Because a lot of the machines and the equipment to do different parts of the outerwear are not in America.

I mean, I had to pay literally like $600,000 to bring a machine in that sewed quilt lines and whatever. I mean, it's like people can't do that. literally like $600,000 to bring a machine in that like sewed quilt lines and whatever. I mean, it's like people can't do that, you know? And so these certain machines that you do need for certain zippers and, you know, taping for weatherproofing and different things like just don't exist here. So once we had enough money, that was like one of the first things that I wanted to get involved in is the outerwear game because I personally love jackets and, but you know, it costs a lot to bring in certain machines and to learn these techniques. And even employees like have to learn different techniques because it's a different type of manufacturing. But anyway, what I'm saying is like, I want to

do more, obviously I want to do everything in America always. So I want to just push the, you know, the limits on what we can do here in quality and like, you know, whether it's developing these machines or these other processes or hire these people and teaching them how to do new things here. It's like really, you know, what else can we make and make better than the performance that's being made in Italy and Japan and whatever? You know, people are like, oh, like all the best shoes are made in Italy. OK, like I want to make shoes better here in America. So it's for me, it's like more products, but like better quality because because I'm crazy about quality and doing it here. Well, people are so concerned all the time about price.

And I think going to macroeconomic levels, you may get something cheaper, but then it's outsourced and you're actually hurting the overall economy and the country you live in. And I think being able to do this stuff here and bring jobs here and have real quality here is so important. It's something we've lost for generations now. And that's what made America so great for so long. I guess you can't use that term so much anymore. But because we made so much stuff here and we've just kind of like offshored a lot of this. And now we wonder like why inflation is so high, why the jobs are in the shambles, why the economy is in such a shaky spot because we don't make anything anymore. Yeah. I mean, everything is outsourced now. I mean, a lot of things are outsourced now. And

one of the reasons that the quality is so much better when you do it here is because you have your eyes on it. I mean, I am literally watching. I mean, every single day I approve a different element of a product being made. Even when I'm here in Austin, they ship me stuff overnight from the factory literally every day. And if everything was made overseas, I wouldn't be able to do that and things would slip through the cracks and you'd have to be like, oh, well, we already made a thousand of those. So we have to do it that way, even though it's not exactly what we wanted. You know, I mean, I'm changing things every second for the, for the quality. And so I a hundred percent think that

when you make things in America, it is better quality. It's just really taking the time, the money, you know, it costs a lot of money to make things here, which is why our stuff is more expensive, you know, than a lot of other companies. But yeah, really just keeping a close eye on things and making better quality garments and shoes and sunglasses and the other products that I want to develop here in America because they're not being made here. You know that company WeatherTech, the floor liners, the rubber ones, it's like the golden retrievers in the commercial and they always hose them down? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Friend of ours started that company and he was obsessed with making it in america like to the point where like you still have to get stuff overseas then like he bought the equipment then to the point where he makes his own rubber all his mold like everything is done in america now and it is by far now like the largest floor matting company in the world in the world and i think it's such a cool story because it was like it was this whole push for american made and now the quality is so efficient and the product is so good because it beats everything else. And it's literally the largest floor mat company in the world. It's a huge, huge company because think about how many people need floor mats. Totally. And obviously it's working, it's working out well

right now for me because a lot now people after the pandemic and what happened, like, you know, with supply chain and everything, I mean, people, you know, that were making things from overseas obviously couldn't get them. And so for me, that didn't affect me at all. And so I think that there's a lot of reasons why the Made in America thing is even more important now. But I am so glad that I did it from the beginning and it was always important to me. I mean, you know, having a team in a factory and walking into the factory and seeing 400 people working in there and knowing that like their kids are going to college because of our stuff, you know, like it's cool. Like it feels

good. And, and that's important to me and, and to know the people and look them in the eyes and see what they're doing, but also the quality. I mean, the quality of the product is better and it's always going to be better when you're closer to the product. And, and I personally am very involved in the product. So your day to day, what does that look like? Like what is it? Conference calls, approving samples. What is your day? When does it start? When does it end? What time do you wake up? Right now I'm getting up about seven. I used to get up about six. I'm kind of like sleeping in a little bit right now, to be honest, but I like to get up and work out every single day. First thing I do, I like group fitness. I go to spin classes. Usually I like kickboxing too. So I do a group

fitness class in the morning. I, well, the first thing I do is, is feed the dogs and make my coffee. I have this whole like special coffee that I make. That's a situation. And so I do that first. Then I go to my class, take the class, come back. And right now I'm working from home. So I really dive in. I usually have like a stack of boxes and stuff on my desk that I need to look at because I'm very much involved in the product, like every little detail, every piece of fabric, every tag, every color, even boxes I'm looking at right now for packaging. I like to kind of approve all of the actual product itself. And so anyway, I do a lot of approvals right off the bat so that I'm not slowing my factory

down and I'm keeping them moving. And then I the funny thing is I'm actually not even on email anymore. Like I just I got I couldn't do email anymore. That's I thank you. Are you not on? This is one of the most successful. She's on email, but not because you get to a point where it's it's actually a waste of time. It's not efficient.

It's not efficient to sit in your inbox and clear. I'm not on email that much either anymore. And people get mad at me. I put an away message. Yeah, I really like, I don't like to look at my email at all. So how do people, well, I guess if you have,

how do people like get in general touch with you? Message in a bottle. Yeah. How do we find you? You have to try really hard. If it's really important, I feel like the cream rises to the top and it gets to you and you can focus on what actually needs your attention

without the distraction of email. I've told this story a million times. My dad had a friend back in the day with fax machines and he would get faxes that would come in and he would have a pile that he would put them in and just leave them there. And he said by the time he would take the most, if it's urgent or most important, he put it at the very bottom. He said if he said, by the time, like you would take the most, if it's like urgent or most important, you put at the very bottom. He said, if it was actually urgent or important, like somehow it would get to him. But if it wasn't like, it would just be like

a wash. And I think email, same thing. People think everything is urgent. Yeah. You came to me the other day. You're like, I cleared my inbox. And I was like, that's a waste of time. Go on. So you're off email. It is. I mean, because it is, it's just a bunch of people throwing stuff at you. Everyone's saying, yeah, just tons of ask. And they all think it's the most important thing. So what I like to do is just like have a minute to like I make a personal list of what's in my head. So I don't even look at any messages or anything. The first thing I do is make a list of what I'm thinking is important right now. And I and I'm pretty close to like everything going on in the business. And sometimes it's like a new idea. And sometimes it's like, oh, like I remember last year I didn't like our

Christmas decorations. I want to make sure that looks good right now. Whatever it is, if anything is in my head, I make a list and then I tackle my list. And if I'm at a point late in the day where I'm going to like peek at my iMessage or my emails, the only way I do that is I search by name. So like a person that I think is important in the company, I search their name and I look at emails they have sent me. Shit. How did we get ahold of you? Yeah. I don't know how we got ahold of you. I know. That's why I don't know. No, I'm sure. Jamie, my, my PR girl, you must've talked to her unless you emailed. I don't know. I actually don't know how you got ahold of me. I bought

18 shirts and then I returned them and said, there's a real problem with whoever made this. And I'm just kidding. I have good people that are watching out for people that are reaching out. And basically, they send me stuff that I look at. It's usually by iMessage now because I really don't like to go to email. But I do look at iMessage and my, I have an assistant that like things go to her and then she gives me things and I do a quick scan on the list. And your podcast is actually, it's funny, my girlfriend, you're like her favorite podcast. So, so it was funny because she's like, no, you actually really need to do this. Like this is a big deal. She loves it. And so that's how I knew. A lot of things actually get filtered through her now

because people know to like go to her. And so anyway, she'll be like, no, I think you should actually do this. And so I think that's probably why, you know, I ended up here, but- Hopefully we didn't fuck it up. No, no, she's like, she loves it. So anyway, yeah, I mean, I really try to avoid,

you know, just like the mass like email request and stay true to like what's on my mind. And yeah, like a lot of what I do throughout the day is product stuff like development and new stuff coming out. And then I'm very much involved in all the creative, like the photography and the lifestyle photo shoots and stuff. I direct all those. And so right now with holidays coming up, it's all about new launches. And I get bored really easily. So I like to come out with new products every week. It's funny because back when wholesale was my focus, I was told to come out with product every three months. And I'm like, no, but I want to come out with product every week. And so it was nice

when I stepped away from really focusing all on wholesale and doing my own channels. I mean, we have 65% of our business is online and 25% is our brick and mortars, 10% is wholesale. So most of my business is direct to consumer. And so I can pretty much do whatever I want. So I love the fact that I have this factory and I can come up with an idea and like the next week it can literally be on the shelves. So cool. Yeah. And so for me, it's like, you know, I sit down, I think about what do I want to hit the shelves next week? Like, what am I feeling? Okay. I feel like, you know, this is really fun right now. And I love this color. I just want to do it. And so a lot, it's like, you know, I sit down, I think about what do I want to hit the shelves next week? Like, what am I feeling? OK, I feel like, you know, this is really fun right now and I love this color. I just want to do it.

And so a lot of it is like putting stuff in motion. I talk to the people that make the clothes and the factory more than anybody because I'm just constantly focused on the clothes. I have, you know, awesome people that work for me that handle a lot of like the day to day like retail operations and stuff like that. So I don't really have to deal with that very much. I do come in and I approve all management, you know, positions and stuff. And so I have a little bit of like staff stuff that I do probably once a week, but for the most part, it's about product. It's like, okay, you know, you know, what should we

come out with next? And we want these photos taken so that it looks the way that we want it to look and, and then what should we develop? And yeah, so it's, it's fun. It's, it's doing a lot of the fun stuff. I think it's super cool that you still have your arms around product development that much. Oh yeah.

Especially like the growth. This is what I want. The side, I love the creative side and the product that's, that's just put me in that position and I'm good. You have to stay true to that. Like if that's what you really love, you know,

don't get buried in the financials and all the, all the that you don't want you know this is literally music to my ear when have you been buried in the financials um because that's news to me sometimes you try to want you want me to dip my toe in there and like i'm just not gonna dip my toe in the pool my wife has no idea where we even like have any any bank account that's not where i said if something goes go out, if I go tomorrow, like you got to be able to find this stuff. Write it down and put it in the safe. Leave the safe code with someone else because I'm not good with numbers. There's a hole in the backyard. Yeah, well, that's good that you know that. You're amazing. Can we do, I didn't even ask you this off air, but can we do like an Aviator Nation giveaway? Yeah, that would be amazing. Like of your favorites? Totally. Okay. All you guys have to do is follow who on Instagram?

Aviator Nation. Perfect. And tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic. And Paige will send you her picks, her favorites. I would love that. Is that okay? Let's do it. And is what you're wearing Aviator Nation?

Yeah, it is. You got it. You got it. I like that flannel. It's cool. Yeah. These are actually coming out. Like, I think they're hitting the shelves right now.

You got to put that in the giveaway. People will love that. You guys, it's like a red and blue, a kind of Navy blue flannel. So cute for like Thanksgiving and fall. You're so inspiring. I mean,

we could have gone so many different directions with this. Come back anytime. Thank you. That was such a great podcast. I hope Michael took notes. A lot of my personality. Where can everyone find you, the brand, pimp the brand out, tell us where to shop, the stores, everything.

Yeah, you can follow me at Paige Mycoskie. That's my Instagram. And I post a lot about new stuff coming up. And when we're building new stores and new installations, I'm very hands-on. I like to paint the walls myself. So I post a lot of my creative stuff there. And then Aviator Nation on Instagram, obviously, is a great spot to find the new collections hitting. We have 17 stores now. Wow, I did not realize that. Wow. And those are all listed on the website if you want to know if we have a store in your city. But every single store is completely unique. And if you go in there, you're going to find stuff that you won't see in the other stores, which is fun. So they're all an experience. And yeah, I think just, I mean, social media obviously is the best way to follow us right now.

And I try to post as much as I can just to kind of connect with the fans of the brand. And I'm all about, you know, like reaching out and like giving us your ideas and opinions and stuff like that, because it's fun to connect with everybody. Right. Paige, thank you. Michael, find your green hat and rock that. Because you did look hot in that. Yeah. I'm excited to see this hat.

Yeah, let's put the hat on. How worn is it? Oh, it's worn. It's worn. No, it's worn. I'm telling you, if I tell him he looks hot in something, it's like, we get it. Yeah. I told you, I'll ride it to the wheels.

Yeah. I love it. All right. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming it's like, we get it. Yeah. I told you, I'll ride it to the wheels. Yeah. I love it. All right. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

Hope you guys love this episode with Paige. If you want to win the Skinny Confidential Face Shaver, it fits perfect in your stocking. All you have to do is tell us your favorite takeaway from this episode with Paige on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic. Also, make sure you've rated and reviewed the show. And with that, we'll see you on Thursday. Probiotics. Let's talk about it. Let's also talk about psychobiotics. I learned recently from a podcast that we did with a microbiologist how the two work in tandem. They're like yin and yang.

So both of them are all about a healthy gut. We have probiotics, which give you good bacteria, and then the psychobiotic, which helps wind you down at night. Both of them are incredible, like I said, for the gut. The most important thing, though, that you can look for in probiotics and psychobiotics is survivability to the gut. And I am on a mission to talk about this because I feel like before having Just Thrive products, I was using a probiotic that didn't even survive to my gut. So I would take one every single day and it was doing nothing. Whatever you do, whatever probiotic you buy, whatever psychobiotic you buy, you want to make sure it survives the trip to your gut. Very, very important.

I personally like Just Thrive products because you don't have to keep them in the refrigerator and I'm always traveling. The one that I have is their probiotic. I have been talking about this for the last three years. And I also have this product called Just Calm and that's the psychobiotic. And what that does is it increases mental clarity, focus, alertness. Like I said, we had the microbiologist on. You can go back and listen to that episode to get all the details. So those are the two products that I would recommend on their site. It's really like a superpower duo for your gut and your immune system and your mood support.

If you're ready to up your game and feel your best, you get 15% off this dynamic duo bundle. And on any of their other scientifically proven products when you go to justthrivehealth.com and use code skinny at checkout. That's justthrivehealth.com code skinny.