The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Beauty Bio Founder & CEO, Jamie O'Banion On How To Balance Building A Business As A Wife & Mother, Beauty Tips, & The Life Lessons Learned Along The Way

Episode Date: May 3, 2021

#353: Today we are joined by Jamie O'Banion. Jamie is the CEO and Founder of BeautyBio, a wife, and a mother. On this episode we discuss how Jamie gets it all done in her business and personal life. We also discuss strategies to pursue a business while keeping your personal life and family life on the right path. We also discuss life lessons learned along the way and beauty tips.  To connect with Jamie O'Banion click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Beekeeper's Naturals Beekeeper’s Naturals is on a mission to reinvent your medicine with clean, effective products that actually work. Bee propolis delivers natural germ-fighting properties and antioxidants to defend and protect our bodies. It’s sustainably sourced and this Spray is made with just three simple ingredients. You’ll never find refined sugars, dyes, or dirty chemicals in these products. Ever. We've worked out an exclusive deal for Skinny Confidential listeners. Receive 15% off your first order. Go to www.BEEKEEPERSNATURALS.com/SKINNY or use code SKINNY at checkout to claim this deal.  This episode is brought to you by No Days Wasted Their hero product is called DHM Detox, which is the vitamin for people who like to enjoy their drinks. It’s designed to help you bounce back the next day. Get 20% off your order and free shipping in the US. Just head over to www.NoDaysWasted.CO/SKINNY and use promo code "SKINNY” at checkout This episode is brought to you by Olive & June The Olive & June Mani system is the secret behind salon-perfect at home, all-in-one, no guessing, no messy nails, no salon price tag. All TSC Him & Her listeners can no get 20% off your first mani system with our code SKINNY. Visit www.oliveandjune.com and use promo code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first mani system.  Produced by Dear Media 

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Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Aha! If in your mind you thought the cookie business was just going to be decorating cookies all day and then you realize you've got to man people and schedule and payroll and you might not have the happiness that you thought you were going to get out of it, if you don't have an internal passion and drive for what you're doing, there is no outcome that will give you the gasoline to keep going. Hello, hello, hello. I am so excited for our guest today. This is a guest that I have wanted to get on the show for years. I'm such a fan of her brand and what she's built. She's a boss, okay? Jamie O'Banion launched Beauty Bio in 2011 with one mission, truth in beauty. She's worked

alongside her father in their family-owned cosmetic lab, and she learned to speak beauty as a second language. She is a mother of three. She lives in Dallas, and I'm telling you, she is a boss. We're going to get into it, how she's built this company, Beauty Bio. I also want to tell you that she gave everyone a code and the code is TSC20 and you get 20% off. Also at the end of this episode, we have a huge ass giveaway. A giveaway that if you're a beauty lover, you're not going to want to miss. We go all over this episode with Jamie.

We talk about entrepreneurship, motherhood, hustling. And I just feel like she gives a really accurate depiction of what it's like to be a mother and build a company. She's gorgeous, beautiful, kind, and cool. I'm really excited to welcome Jamie O'Banion of Beauty Bio to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. So I was just saying, I have wanted you on the podcast for four years, but what I love about you is you're so busy and focused on what you're doing. And it seems like you are so packed with your schedule.

So finally, after four years, you're here. And maybe it's because we're both in Texas. I don't know. I would make time any place anywhere. I know COVID cramped our style and getting together. But we're here. We're here. And maybe it's because we're both in Texas. I don't know. I would make time any place anywhere. I know COVID cramped our style and getting together. But we're here. We're here. We made it all happen. I just have so many questions for you because you are a mother, a wife, you do it all so well, and you have a massive company. So I think what I would like to know first is let's go

way back to your childhood. Have you always been such an overachiever? It's an interesting question and a short answer, yes. I do think that everybody has different bandwidths and different level of drive, what makes them tick. And I used to think a lot of that could be learned and I think it can to a degree. But I do think that sometimes, and if you can relate, you just have this fire in you. And whatever I did, even from growing up years, I really wanted to be the best that I could be, not necessarily the best, but the best that I could be. As simple as I remember babysitting and making sure that whenever I left the house, it was cleaner than when I got there and that they were really happy with the job that you did. And I think that mentality really carried with me. And I had forgotten about something that I had in my bedroom and my dad on a birthday recently reminded me,

he said, do you remember growing up, you had this piece of paper taped to the back of your door that said, reach for the moon. If you fall short, you might just land on a star. And I forgot that I'd written that in some, you know, Sharpie, cute font, whatever. But I think it really does represent so much of who I am and how I'm programmed. I suppose that I have really always sought to challenge myself and probably had this weird thing inside myself that if it felt challenging, I really wanted to do it. If I was scared of it, it made me want to do it more. And I'm grateful for that because I think there is no scenario where you can achieve some level of greatness and what you're pursuing if

you're not willing to tolerate some risk. And with that, you've got to be able to try some things that certainly push you out of your comfort zone. Were your parents a certain way with you? Because you're very entrepreneurial. Did they tell you certain things or was it just something that was an eight? Or was it a mix? Probably a mix. I think I'm someone that loves solving problems. And I think if you're an entrepreneur, I don't know any other successful founder or entrepreneur who doesn't get a real satisfaction out of solving a problem. So if something comes across my desk,

I don't think of it as, ah, our freight is stuck in the Suez Canal. It's like, okay, that's a problem, like a jigsaw puzzle. How do we reverse engineer into a solution? And if you get really stimulated by that and not overwhelmed by that, entrepreneurship is probably a good path for you. So I think seeing my parents model that for me was certainly helpful. And I grew up in a big family. I have five other siblings. So you learn to function well in chaos, right? Makes you very autonomous. I think that probably helped

as well. And looking at both of my parents, my dad, they both started with nothing. My dad worked his way through college, then medical school. And when he became a physician, he was moonlighting and working during the day. And then my mother, six kids, my oldest brother is handicapped. He has cerebral palsy and hydrocephalus. And I have never once heard her complain about caretaking. She's always been his primary caretaker even to this day and he's still with us. And seeing that example of you just do it and you could spend time talking about it or just go do it and then do with a great attitude because you can actually have a lot of fun when you challenge yourself. So definitely grateful for both of their examples for sure.

Can you pinpoint the first time that you felt success, not with Beauty Bio, but just in general? I don't think I've ever been asked that question and I really like it. I remember I, and this is looking in hindsight kind of bizarre, but I remember asking my parents if I could test to go to Hockaday, which is a pretty intense all-girls private school in Dallas, and accepted, really loved the pace there. I mean, you were studying during lunch. It was pretty intense. And I remember winning the spelling bee in my class and advancing up to the middle school level because I was still in elementary and feeling, wow, if you try and you put forth some effort, you can have outsized results. And I think that you have those little building block experiences, which seems so tiny

in the moment, but they do build a confidence within yourself that you expect yourself to go out and contribute and to do great things. And then you became former Miss Teen Texas and runner-up Miss Teen America. So that was maybe like a second wave where you felt success. Is that right? It's funny because my mind didn't even go there in terms of that. That was a really fun experience. Someone nominated me to even be a part of it. And I'll be straight up with you. That was not, I'm coming from an all-girls school.

You don't wear makeup. It's very STEM focused. That is like a totally different world. And it felt very awkward and challenging in its own sense. And I remember it's day two of this. I'm like, this is ridiculous. I'm going to quit. I don't know anyone here.

I'm so uncomfortable. These girls have been doing this for years. I don't even, they have coaches. Like this is all too much. And I remember telling myself, because I am not a quitter, just see it out. And I remember sitting in my car, deciding whether I was going to walk in or not.

This was, I was probably 17. And I just thought, you know what? Maybe I'll get like fourth runner up. And I could tell my grandkids that wouldn't that be something and ended up winning. And it was a great experience because it did force me to look at a glossy side of the world. And then from there, I ended up modeling for probably, oh gosh, I don't know, 15 years. And I was still doing that when I started the brand. That's a lot of work. It was a lot of work. Modeling is a lot of work.

It is a lot of work. Can you speak on that? Because I don't think people understand how much work it is. We talk about this all the time. He had to stand there for one minute. I was like, oh, wow, I have a whole new appreciation. I can't do that for more than 30 seconds. Here's why I'm so grateful for it. It teaches you to put yourself inside the lens so you can try to achieve whatever your client is seeing in their head, which was so helpful as it's helped me to inform our own creative direction with the brand. If I didn't know what that whole world

looked like, because it is work. You come in as a professional. Here's the job. Here's the go-by. Here's what it is. And you are there to deliver what the client needs. It's not, to your point, just kind of showing up and taking pretty pictures. There's a vision and you have to transform yourself into that vision. And yes, there are days, as ridiculous as it sounds, we're shooting down shots, for example, for Neiman's or something that's headquartered in Dallas. And your back is killing you because you have done one gazillion, but you get up there and you do your part. I remember I had a job where we were shooting some swimwear and I was the younger girl in the group. So I got to be the one volunteered to be in the swimming pool and you're shooting swim in

December. It was not heated. It was supposed to be, but it wasn't heated. I was so numb when I got it. And of course you don't, you just do it and you do the job. I went into that little cabana after, and the water came out. I could not tell if it was burning hot or freezing cold, you know, when you're that cold, but you just do it. It is a lot of work. But I think having that time, because my father's an owner, our family, and one of the top labs in the US for skincare. So amazing ingredients. I mean, we were doing peptides before peptides were even a thing, retinoids and so forth. So I had this really strange background of almost behind the microscope because I'm a total nerd. I love love data. I grew up, I was the one like bringing the book to the dinner table. And so I loved that science world. Like you can put an ingredient

on the skin and see a change. Like that's amazing. And then I also had this very glamorous parallel life that I was living in front of the cameras. It was like behind the microscope and in front of the camera. And I'm so grateful for it because the word beauty bio or beauty bioscience is our full LLC. It really is this marriage of beauty and science together. And I think it's so representative because we want amazing results, right, in our skincare. But we also want it to look pretty and be amazing vanity candy on the counter. And I think we've really created a beautiful marriage there. And when you consider your path, and I talk to young entrepreneurs about that a lot, there's usually breadcrumbs there already to help point you forward. So

each of those experiences were so helpful to me in understanding how do you present something? You can have the most amazing product in the world, but if no one knows about it, so who cares? Spicy margaritas are always happening at our house. In fact, we did sangria the other day. I've been on a sangria kick. But you know what? I wake up feeling great, and that is because of No Days Wasted. Okay, so here's the deal. They have this thing called DHM Detox, and it's a vitamin for when you drink. I am so obsessed with this because it's an herbal supplement, and it's packed with antioxidants, anti-inflammatory ingredients, which I'm big on, and it's plant-based. So if you need a little bit of support after you've had a couple of sangrias,

Michael whipped up this amazing sangria. He did a whole bottle of red wine, a little Hennessy. He tried to drink the whole pitcher. We made some skinny margaritas. And what I did was I took two capsules after my first couple of drinks. It goes to work. I woke up with a pep in my step. I did my morning routine. Don't mean to brag. My breath work, my stoicism, I made the bed, I did not feel fatigued, I did not have brain fog, and that is because of DHM Detox. I'm telling you, if you want to have a great time at night and a nice time in the morning and feel normal, then you have to try this. And as always, our show is very specific about science. DHM Detox uses research science to help boost your body's natural response to alcohol and helps break down the toxins. So if you're going to have a couple of drinks, take your two capsules. After

your first couple of drinks, it goes to work. You should know it's a completely risk-free purchase. So if you don't love it, they'll refund you on your first box. It's that easy, you guys. So you deserve to have your cake and eat it too. I deserve to have my margarita and drink it too. And of course, we got you 20% off your order and free shipping in the US. Just head over to nodayswasted.co slash skinny. You're going to use promo code skinny at checkout. That's nodayswasted.co slash skinny for 20% off your order. Cheers. You also had the recipe too because you also were very entrepreneurial and driven. And those three things really sounds like it propelled the business forward.

I want to talk about being entrepreneurial because you touched on one of the things that I think is a key component, which is obviously liking problem solving. I think that's really all that it is, is problem solving over and over and over again. But I think the bigger thing you touched on is not quitting. And I think so many people, they get like right to the limit, it gets a little tough and they quit. And I want to talk about the muscle that you build over time of just not giving up and how you've personally done that. Lauren, I've talked about how we've done over years, but for you personally, like what is it inside you that gives you the drive to just not quit? Oh my gosh, Michael, if I could offer one piece of advice to anyone. The number of times that if someone had given 10% more effort, they would have been there.

They would just cry looking back, seeing that they were so close. And it's sad, but that typically is the delta between being successful and not. So I love that you hit the nail on the head. And I think it doesn't even require so much smarts, right? Like I was a BC student, maybe CD. It depends. Talking about problems. I hated problems where somebody had already figured out the solution. Like if I'm like, okay, there's just a thing and there's a test and I got to answer and somebody already knows like that is not so interesting. I like the problems that nobody's figured out yet. And I go to like, okay, I'll be the first one.

Is that one you decided to date me? I was a problem. Yeah, I still have not figured out this problem yet. I'm still cracking that one. But I do think similar to you, I'm also somebody that like, you can kick me down. So I just won't stop, but I won't quit. And I don't think that requires so much like brainpower. I just think it's something that it's just like being willing to be very uncomfortable all the time. So interesting. There's a quote I love by Babe Ruth that says something like, it's pretty hard to beat someone who never gives up.

And I think that is so true. I'm part of YPO. And last night we had an incredible speaker, former admiral, chancellor of UT. What is YPO for people? It's Young Professionals Organization. Is that good to join? I talked to my friend Cole mentioned that about me, but I just... Yeah, it really is.

So typically someone will sponsor you once you've reached a certain size in your company's growth or whatnot. And then it's really amazing because you have a group in your forum within your chapter of like-minded individuals that you can sit down and chat with because leadership is lonely, right? And it is a gift to be able to just punt ideas around with other individuals who are probably dealing as an executive or a founder with really similar issues. And I found it to be super helpful. But the speaker, former Navy SEAL, ended up heading the entire special ops program, same exact point that

he was making. You just cannot quit. Even when it's hard and even if you get up and that's all you can do is just get up, not even move like an inch forward. That's all you can do. I've got to show you guys after this darling video that my husband shared with me of this mama bear at the top of the snow. I don't know if you've seen it. And the baby bear slides down and it was over. And finally the baby bear gets up there. But what people don't realize is the muscle you are building through the struggle is what is going to help you to be successful with actual longevity. So you have to go through the struggle to be able to build up the ability to sustain like a marathon runner, right? So all of those struggles along the way,

the pivots, the late nights, they help you to number one, build your own internal confidence that you can do it, that you can do hard things. And number two, give you the experience to allow you to refine your path forward, to be more efficient, to be more focused with your time and help set priorities and so forth. So as much as they stink to go through, it is such a great refiner's fire and learning ground. But haven't you found that, I mean, I don't want to take my personal experience, put it around, but I've found that, like, I think people from the outside, they'll look at someone who's part of a successful venture, like, wow, their life must be great, easy. I've found that every year my life has gotten harder and it's harder in different ways. Like obviously if you can

make ends meet and pay the bills, like that takes some financial pressure off. But I found like with success comes a lot more struggle and a lot more challenging things that you have to go through as an individual. So I think people look at people that are at the top of their game, they go, it must be easy. But what I found is it just gets harder and harder and those failures and those struggles like equip you to be able to deal with those hardships. No doubt. I remember another parent telling me, little people, little problems. And as they get older, it is the same with business and our own personal growth. And where much is given, much is expected. So as you continue to grow and your responsibility grows,

the pressure only mounts. I mean, I remember when we were a party of two and running a still fairly substantial business that felt overwhelming at the time. And now looking back, oh my gosh, I had oodles of time that you didn't realize that you did as you become more efficient. So it's really fun to see how you stretch, how you morph. But I love that you called that out because I think outside looking in, sometimes things look really glossy

and you don't see, there's a great book on this called The Messy Middle, right? People see the beginning, which is really exciting. And then the outcome, which is really exciting in many scenarios. And then no one really talks about the messy middle. 100%, no one talks about that. We try on this podcast to talk about this. First, I would love to know how you decided to launch this and how it came to be about. And then I would love for you to talk about your messy middle. Yeah, absolutely. So for me, I never

planned on doing what I was doing today exactly as it stands. I was so fascinated with product development. I loved, as I said, more of the behind the microscope R&D piece of it. And I had some experiences early on in my early 20s. So graduated from school and business and marketing and went to started spending time at the lab. And I always saw myself as more behind the scenes and helping other skincare brands and founders that would come to us or a physician would say, Hey, I want to start a skincare line. So they would come to a lab like ours, and we would work on ingredients or a product for them. And if it was one of the big four, then you're developing a new what's called raw material for like one of those big four brands,

for example. So sometimes it's finished good, for like one of those big four brands, for example. So sometimes it's finished good, meaning like soup to nuts, the entire thing, you're filling it, you're getting it out the door, or sometimes it's just the workhorse in the formula, right? Like that one ingredient that's going to give it its punch. And I was working on some new raw materials.

So that one ingredient that then you would sell to someone in bulk, they manufacture it themselves, compound it and sell it and really excited about it. And you do a slew of clinical studies. And with that, you put together a dossier, you make a recommendation for how much of that ingredient should be in a particular product. And probably one of my downfalls was just my naivety of feeling like everyone always has your best interest at heart. You can always trust everyone.

And that's been something that in some ways I hope I never lose. But I've also had to know that that's unfortunately not always the case. So develop this new raw material even helped come up with the name that was going to be trademarked. Like this is your baby. You hand it over and that raw was supposed to be in at a certain percentage. And it was in when I went to check the formula after it launched, glossy, gorgeous, it was in at a fraction of what it needed to be to actually work. And that was really shocking for me. But there's no FDA regulation that checks that it's in at clinical percents to actually do something.

Whoa. Yes. So you were seeing the back end of what was actually going into the skincare that people were using, and it was not even like enough to work. Not even enough to work. Wow. And that, to me, was wrong. It was wrong. And I thought, how do I, as one person, even talk about this?

And, of course, we never did business with them again. At the end of the day, they put in what they want to put in. I don't have control over it. But I just thought to myself, you know what? I hope to be a voice to help educate people. And even to this day, if you look in our, you'll have to come visit the office now that you guys are Texans, if I can say that. We actually are officially now.

I love it. Above our glass board, we have three words in neon, truth and beauty. And I wanted it there in the conference room to remind us, this is our mission. If someone wants to buy Beauty Bio or not, that's totally cool, but you should at least know. And I feel this great sense of responsibility. My mom said something once that I, not once, over and over again, that I will share here. She said, if not me, who, if not now, when? It might've been maybe Eleanor Roosevelt that originally said that quote, but I always hear it from making your bed in the

morning to whatever it is, thinking if I don't do this right now, who's going to come in and do it? So- And not only that, nobody's going to do it for you. And if you don't start now, you'll never start. It's so important. That's right. So it was one of those moments where I thought, do you think it's by chance that you happen to be born into this industry? I'm spending all this time with these amazing chemists, but they're speaking an entirely different dialect than the average consumer.

I've had this experience on the opposite end of the spectrum, working with top makeup artists, what do you love? Why do you love it? And really getting in the consumer's head. I almost felt like this Rosetta Stone, right? Between this Mensa level brilliance and then helping to break it down for the consumer. So as much as I tried to just push the feeling away, it just kept coming back to me. If not me, who, if not now, when? And I knew that whatever it looks like, I needed to start educating and start down a path where I could help control outcomes and offer something that people would know. This is clinically tested, every single product,

and people think that happened, that doesn't happen. People don't go and actually clinically test the finished formula. That's why people talk about ingredients a lot. They're like, oh, it has this, it has that, but did someone actually do a clinical study to prove that it works once the cake is baked? Not like, did the salt taste good, the flour taste good,

but the entire thing. And I know it sounds crazy, but people don't do that. The majority of brands. So for us, it is all about flipping things on its head, R&D roots. And that I think has really resonated with our community. And we've never paid for advertising. We never paid to be in a publication. We've never paid an influencer to talk about the brand. To me, that doesn't feel authentic because I truly want when someone uses it, if you love it, great. If you don't love it, great. I would prefer that it's really an editorial experience. So I'm grateful. I'm grateful for the editors that have taken a chance on us, influencer, blogger, mom, friend, and people sharing and telling each other.

But that's really the fabric of who we are and how it started was from a place of frustration, feeling like there was this dream in a bottle monologue that was happening. And there has been a movement towards transparency, which I'm so grateful for. We're a totally Sephora clean skincare brand. We were talking organics before organics were even cool. And I'm hopeful that as enough people start saying, hey, this is what should be in your product. This is what should not look for this color with this ingredient. That's how you'll know there's enough in there. It should be doing this. I'm hopeful that that will continue to really lead change in the industry. From a micro level, how did you start this business? And what I mean by that is like, if I look back how I launched my blog, I pulled out a huge poster board. I got

all different textiles. I got different paint swabs and I sort of built it in front of me. Is there any little tools or tactics or habits that you did while building this business that would help someone who wants to build a business? That's a great question. And I think having, to your point, a vision or if it's actually a tangible vision board, there's an incredible, I believe it's a Harvard study that talks about how much more likely you are to accomplish a goal when you've written it down.

Ooh, that's a good one. To really manifest that. And you know what? Worst thing can happen is you don't make it, right? But you are far more likely to achieve the goal if you take the time because what you're really doing is committing to it, right? It's easy if like in middle school, it was who's going to break up with who first, right? It's almost this, you're not fully committed unless you can put pen to paper and say,

this is my ambition and own it. And maybe it'll work out and maybe it won't. But we tell our kids all the time, the definition of failure is simply not trying. What's the worst thing that could happen? I am so obsessed with beekeepers naturals that I actually text the owner the other day and said, please, please, please send me more of those shots. They're the bee-powered shots, and they give you so much energy. It's like a game changer. I'm telling you, Beekeepers Naturals created a whole hive of products packed with immune loving essentials so you can feel your best all day, every day. And for regular listeners of the show, you may have heard our most recent episode with Carly, the founder of Beekeepers Natural. We got into the benefits of propolis,

bees, using these products to heal your body naturally, how these ancient remedies have been lost for long periods of time. And now she is on the forefront of bringing them back into modern medicine. I have to say, I love the spray, but you guys got to try the shots. These are what I can't stop talking about. All of you are DMing me about them. They're these little shots. You're starting to feel down and out, or you just need an energy boost. You take one of these little shots and it kicks your ass. It's clean and powerful, and it has no artificial ingredients. So what's in it? Raw honey, which provides natural fuel for active bodies. Bee pollen. This is like nature's multivitamin,

and it has tons of amino acids and nutrients. Propolis, like Michael said, which contains antioxidants and germ-fighting compounds. And then my favorite, which I am having this huge moment with, royal jelly. So what I do is I drink my coffee and then later in the day, I do the Be Smart brain fuel shots, okay? Everyone is obsessed with this. I honestly have gotten so many DMs, I can't even believe it. Okay, so they're so confident they're going to be obsessed with their products that they're offering a 100% money-back guarantee. If for any reason you're unhappy with their products, they're going to refund your money. No questions asked. Obviously, we've worked out an exclusive deal for all Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners. You receive 15% off your first order.

You're going to go to beekeepersnaturals.com slash skinny or use code skinny at checkout to claim this deal. That's B-E-E-K-E-E-P-E-R-S-N-A-T-U-R-A-L-S.com slash skinny. Meet your new medicine cabinet with Beekeepers Natural. You can also find Beekeepers Naturals nationwide in over a thousand stores like Whole Foods and Sprouts. That's what we tell our kids. But then I think some systems are set up, especially school systems, to talk about the opposite, right?

Where it's like, if you actually don't hit a mark, then you failed. It's why I never liked school. I mean, I'm somebody that like, some people really excel, but someone like me did not excel at all. And I'll go on a tangent, but there's one thing that you touched on that I don't think we've touched on so frequently on this show, which is risk tolerance. And I want to know how you became comfortable with risk because a lot of people, they just don't have it. It might be something you're born with. It might be something you build. For me, it's personally, it's if my wife's okay, if my child's okay, if I'm okay and I'm not going to die, then how bad can it be?

That's my measurement. I'm going to try this thing. Worst case happens, as long as my family's okay. That's kind of what I'm comparing it. So my risk tolerance is high. But I wonder if there's something in your mind that makes you comfortable or more comfortable with risk than most people? It's so funny you say that because I often describe my own risk tolerance in the same terms that if I have my faith, my family, my close friends, that's what matters. I mean, I would go dig a ditch if I needed to put food on my family's table. I think you have to strip away that layer of pride to be able to say, these are my priorities. And if those are there, I've got my family, your health. Obviously, we know in the last year, health is the greatest wealth. Then everything else is just gravy on top.

So I think my father, very entrepreneurial. It would have been easy for him to just focus on his practice, but he spent so much time in the lab as well. And then different investments in a healthy yogurt shop and real estate and seeing him view risk and adventure through the lens of the payoff is the experience of it, right? Versus just the monetary outcome. I mean, when it's all said and done, we take our memories and experiences with us. And it's lovely when there's an outcome that is monetary and that's great, but there's wins, there's losses.

And if you're not, at least for me, grounded on the things that are really important, you will blow like a leaf in the wind. And because I have those priorities and that order of faith and family and then work, when that is good and that is solid and that is there, everything else can be incremental. You don't have the same emotional ache. Everything feels smaller. Yeah, exactly. I would say when, you know, kind of back to your question of what would you, how would you advise people and risk tolerance? Because I think they're there. You really have to gut check yourself on that. I was doing a mentorship class yesterday. I tried to carve out some time.

I didn't really have a mentor per se. I had no idea what I was doing. I probably made every mistake in the book. And I'm hopeful that I can in some way get back because I can allocate some time to answer a question that I wish I would have known. So this same idea came up about risk tolerance and what do you do and what's the path? Is it venture?

Is it this? Is it that? I think you have to look at what is the end outcome that you want. If you can really define what that looks like, all you do is begin with the end in mind and reverse engineer into that. Oh, I wish people would talk about this more. It's not the goals necessarily. Sometimes it's the systems to get you there and reverse engineering. it's genius. Yeah. And say, for example, you love baking, right? My sister just opened up a crumble. What is your goal with that, right? Is your goal to franchise it out? Is your goal that you just love being in the kitchen? And I've seen a lot

of entrepreneurs follow their passion, but then get burnt out because they start to go, wait a second, I actually enjoyed the baking part of it, but not necessarily the running the business part. So I think really having that honest conversation with yourself as to what do you want to get out of this and what is your risk tolerance? How does that work for your family? If you have a family, if you're married, how does that work in this chapter? And I think that ability to be able to pull apart, have an honest conversation of the sacrifices that will be made, locking arms and moving forward is so important because people get down the line and then this is not what I thought it would be. I'm, you know, the resentment can build. I think it's really important to just have that roadmap, honest conversation, define your

priorities. And one thing I always think about is happiness is 100% tied to expectation. I try to think of an instance that's not true, like even in personal life. My husband and I both work. Ironically, we both have the same job. We're both CEO and founders of our companies, which was not planned that way. It's just how it worked out. And we have to do a lot of communication to know who's where, what's going on. I'm cooking dinner. He walks in in his golf clothes because he happened to take an afternoon off. Is it fair for me to feel upset with him that he was golfing and I'm trying to hold it all together? Not really, if we haven't had that conversation. So if I had an expectation that,

hey, I thought you were going to come home earlier to help me, but I never communicated that, that's not fair to him. So I think having that communication, setting expectations, so then we're all on the same page. Your happiness factor is 10x if you can do that. And it applies to the workplace as well. If in your mind, you thought the cookie business was just going to be decorating cookies all day, and then you realize you've got to man people and schedule and payroll and you're, you might not have the happiness that you thought you were going to get out of it. And the fuel to keep you going. And I can share some stories that are just super raw about like,

this is what it looks like. If you don't have an internal passion and drive for what you're doing, there is no outcome that will give you the gasoline to keep going. Yeah, because it all gets harder. And there's a bunch of stuff that happens along the way that you don't anticipate. There's this podcast we like talking on a mic, but to build a podcast business, you have sales, you have marketing, you have all the finance, all these things that that's not why you're doing this, right? You're doing this because you like to talk to people. But all the stuff that comes with it, if you don't have the core of loving something like this, there's no way you

can do the rest of the stuff. I have a question that I've been dying to ask you this whole time and that I feel I've never talked about it on the show. And I feel like you are the perfect person to answer this. If you're having happy hour with me, what's your answer? Forget the audience. I am experiencing so much mom guilt. I can't believe it. Like even leaving for a couple hours, I have this like intense mom guilt, but I have to work because that's what drives me and makes me passionate. And this is like where I thrive. Never before when I had kids, I would never think I would experience this. I'm like, I want all the nannies. I want a chef. I want this. I want that. But now that I'm in it, I can't believe how much guilt I feel. How do you

deal with that when you're running such a gnarly company and you have kids? Because you've built an incredible family too. Thank you. It is such an important question and I love that we can be real and talk about it. Number one, I would love for you to reframe even thinking about it to know that the fact that you feel that way is awesome because it means your priorities are in the right place, right? You have a tether in your heart to your baby and you want to be with them. That is not a bad thing at all. That's a wonderful thing. It shows that you have those, again, we talked about risk tolerance, your heart and priority

is in the right place. I believe that everybody has different bandwidth, right? And if you're someone that has that passion inside you and you feel that you are a better mother, a better wife, when you can have that outlet, whatever that looks like, if it's PTA, if it's podcast, if it's working, if it's tennis, if it's philanthropy, whatever it might be, I think that God wants us to not put our talents

under a bushel and be the best that we can be. So I think that's not coming from a place of light to pull you down and just remembering that. That's not, no one wants you to feel that way. It usually is self-inflicted. So here's what I will say. There are some days that I feel like an awesome CEO and some days that I feel like an awesome mom. Yeah. And they're never on the same

day. Oh, I know. But that's exactly how I feel. That's how that's how it feels. You lay your head down the pillow. You're like, oh, I could have done this better. But let me just tell you as well, the number of studies, there's another Harvard study that's great that talks about children that had a working mother, not even just a working mother, how productive, organized. And I think, look, it can be either way, whether you choose to stay at home or not, that's everyone's choice. But know that you are also modeling an incredible roadmap for your daughter. And if you continue to grow your family, showing them what that looks like. I saw my mother, even though she's an amazing interior designer, ASID certified,

she spent more time with the kids than her design work. But do you know how proud I was that she was a designer? That was the first thing I said when I stood up in second grade to talk about my mom. I was so proud of that, that she had something that was hers. It didn't make me feel like it was taken away from my time. I was proud that as an individual, that's something that she did. So remember that and remember how inspiring it is. I remember when we launched at Harrods in London, I had my kids with me. And I think for my son, it's expected culturally, like you're going to go out and do this. And I think for our daughters, showing them that there are multiple paths forward. And it's not the same path isn't right for everyone. Everyone has different levels of bandwidth. And some people

can juggle more than other people at different stages of life. So we walk into Harrods and both of my girls ran up to our big, beautiful launch display. And they said, Mommy, look, it's our beauty bio. It was so sweet because they said our, they felt a part of it. And so here's how I approach it. I, if the kids are, and they're all in school, school age now, if it's Friday morning, right? Which is usually when spelling tests and so forth.

I'll say, hey, mommy is headed to the office and I'm gonna go rock my presentation. You're gonna go to school and you're gonna crush it go rock my presentation. You're going to go to school and you're going to crush it on your spelling test. Let's high five. And then everyone goes out about their day and then you come back together. So I think it's that team mentality of we're all doing this together. We're all building this together that helps children not feel isolated because I think it's the isolation oftentimes. So as much as it feels appropriate, absolutely bring your baby. I love

when Whitney IPO'd with Bumble, she had her baby on her hip. That's awesome. That's awesome. I think it is a new chapter ahead. So know that it is normal. Know that balance is totally personal. You've got to define that, but it's okay if some days you feel like you're crushing it at work and some days you're crushing it at home. I think as long as when you are in that zone, in the mom zone, like I am fully present with my kids. The last thing that I will offer that has been a learning for me, if you were to look at my calendar, I program in time with my kids and husband like it's a board meeting.

Because if you're not intentional with your time, you will always take one more meeting, stretch 15 more minutes, and then things start to get squashed that are your priorities. And that's, I found, where I start to not feel great inside. You know what's been looking hot? Looking good? What? Those manicured nails. Oh my God, I thought you were going to say that. Looking a little crusty before I learned. Okay, well, they're on fleek thanks to Olive and June. I am so excited to partner with Olive and June because I have truly been a fan of this brand for the last five years. I'm obsessed.

They have this mani system that is the answer to salon perfect nails at home. I did not think I could do my nails at home until this kit. But the best part about Olive and June is their polish lasts seven days and doesn't chip. Here's the deal. There's nothing worse than when I get my nails done and they chip. It's like dirty underwear. I can't do it. I need my polish to last. And with their Manny system, each at-home Manny comes out to just $2. So what happens is you get their system in the mail. It's so cute. You want it on your Instagram feed. Absolutely adorable. The owner and the team really made sure it was aesthetically pleasing, which I love. And then it's five steps. It comes with this thing

called a poppy. And this is the thing that changed my life. It's a patented brush handle that makes it easy to paint with both of your hands. This is what saved my life. I could not paint my nails without a poppy. The poppy makes it really easy to paint. I'm right-handed with my left hand. I can actually paint my nails at home. I don't mean to brag. I never thought I'd be able to say that without this. Since moving to Austin, I'm not in LA. I do my nails at home. The Olive and June Manny system is the secret behind salon perfect nails at home. It's all in one. There's no guessing. There's no messy nails. There's no salon price tag. And it's also really cute. And you guys get 20% off your first Manny system with our code SKINNY. Your new nail life is here.

I'm telling you, if I can paint my nails at home, anyone can. Okay? This is a big deal. I'm able to do this. Get 20% off your first Manny system when you use promo code SKINNY at oliveandjune.com. We're done with expensive bad Manny's that ship. This is the new us. On that note, let's get back to the show. That's a really good tip. I need to schedule time with my husband, like on the calendar. I think that's a really good tip. Thursday night to schedule time with my husband on the calendar. I think that's a really good tip. Thursday night is our... You have it on the calendar, 100%.

I think in a relationship with two active... It sounds like you and your husband are similar to us. You're two active people running separate organizations and entities. And with that, your calendar gets slammed. And I think sometimes when you're in a relationship, there's a tendency to feel like, okay, if I reach out to my significant other, they got to drop everything they're doing, but that's also very stressful and hard on the relationship because maybe at that time you're scheduled to meet with the team and then your wife comes in or husband comes in and you're like, oh, and then you're, you're kind of like separating your time from everyone. So

I think it's a really smart tip. We could do better at it because we get caught up in this. Schedule me in your fucking calendar. It's dicey when someone that you're close with, they expect you to just be there whenever. Right. But it doesn't always work out that way, especially as life gets busier and especially as you add kids. So you have in your calendar

time with kids, time with husband. For real. I will show you right now. Yeah, I'm a really detailed person. So while you're looking for that, I would love to know too how you structure your day

and how you set yourself up for success. So do you wake up at a certain time every day? Like, are you doing certain things in the morning to get you prepared for your busy schedule? I mean, you're really packing a lot in a day. So I would love to know how you structure that. Yeah. So I love Google calendars because it shows you what I don't like about Apple calendar is it's just a dot and I can't tell how much time is allocated to something. Yeah, I like that better. So I love this because I can see, whoa, why do I have an hour solid of my day allocated to this thing? So for example, weekly date night, it's literally programmed in to my calendar. That is

our commitment, just like anything else. On the drive down here, I had meetings every 30 minutes. We're doing this and then a couple of calls on the way back. So here's a perfect example. My son's baseball game that's programmed in the calendar. I was on QVC a couple hours later, drove up to celebrate my mom. So happy I got to hug her in person again, put the kids to bed and then went back up to the office to broadcast. But it's literally the games, everything. It looks like I have tonight, even filling out at 10 o'clock tonight, my daughter's camps,

camp forums. You just have to be that deliberate. And it is funny, I guess, because I have a sales meeting or a board meeting that is deliberate on the calendar as my children. And then I think that will alleviate as well some of that maybe angst that we feel because you know that it's not going to get scheduled out. It is so important to you that it is truly blocked in your schedule to make that just that awesome one-on-one time. I love that tip because we have the same thing here,

but the one thing we're not doing is scheduling the time when it's just us. Or with the baby. I think that in the morning I have a block with the baby, but I think even putting it on the calendar throughout the day when I can steal moments is important. No, I think it's super smart because everything else goes in there, but that doesn't. And all of a sudden it's like, oh, I'm trying to squeeze my personal relationship into my business. Really? That's not the right thing to do.

Tell us about your morning routine. Okay. So in the morning, I have started in the last several months to fold fitness back into my routine because with the crazy travel, I think before COVID shut down, I flew almost 400,000 miles that year, which is horrible. When American Airlines called, they were like, welcome to the Million Mile Club. I was like, this is not actually a club I wanted to be a part of. This is optional. But again, talking about seasons of life, just know that there are some seasons. I didn't travel like I did when my babies were one. I mean,

it's, there are different seasons of life and that's okay. And then as soon as my kids started in full day school, then I was able to, you know, amp up and spend more work time. So with regards to morning routine, I am now committed to fitness instead of my fitness being running to the airport and lifting up bags. So typically, I try to do three days a week to get up before the kids and do a workout program. Then I love to make a hot breakfast for the fam. So usually I'm making eggs. I love the Kodiak cake.

The protein pancake mix is awesome. So I'll make some breakfast. Then typically, I'll run carpool. And my husband and I divide and conquer. So of late, I've been taking my son. He takes the girls. Sometimes we'll switch. Carpool days.

I feel like I make good carpool. Carpool is awesome. You can jam out in the car. It's super fun. Yeah, I love it. And then we do kind of a checklist. We developed this little great chart for our kids that kind of breaks up the day into three pieces so they can check off. I found when kids are younger, it helps them to

have that structure. So they kind of get through their must-haves for the day. Carpool's done. Then I come back and rinse off, throw my clothes on. And typically my first call starts at 8.30 or sometimes 9. I do love to try to build in 30 minutes of regroup time before you start the day just to clear the inbox if there was anything that didn't get actioned, reset. I'm always looking on Sunday at my calendar for the week to see if I need to rejig anything just to give people courtesy time. And then the night before, whatever changes have been made to the next day with my assistant, I usually try to go through and just know what my day, is there anything I need to do to prepare for a certain meeting? Then, you know, jam out the day. And one thing I started doing with my

assistant a few years ago that was really, really helpful is creating what we call the hot list. So as I imagine you do as well, there are days I get 300 plus emails. And I have found, to your point about busier and more going on as an executive, and I would say this is true for most executives, you don't have desk time during the day. You're in back-to-back meetings. Give us a tip on that. I know. Whoever you're working with has also taken time to prepare to present to you, and you need to be in decision making mode, which also burns calories. So there you go. It's like playing chess. So there you go. There's a workout. But truly, going through the day, you don't have this desk time. So there you go. It's like playing chess. So there you go. There's a workout. But truly going through the day, you don't have this desk time. So it is inevitable. And if someone else has, I have never heard it from another founder or executive, but if someone

has a magic pocket, I know that there are some tech founders who clear their chunks of their day, which I think is great. I have not found that to be something I can do in my life right now, but we have developed the hot list. So anything that is like 911 on fire that needs my approval or review before the next day goes on the hot list. Like, hey, can you approve this new colorway for product XYZ? Got to have this answer tomorrow. Do you have someone going through your email though? And this is where I get frustrated is that when you have, I feel your email though? And this is where I get frustrated is that when you have, I feel like you can relate to this, thousands of emails. Do you have someone going through or do you do it yourself and forward? Typically, I like to be in my own inbox, but Allie absolutely has access to go through to see if there's anything that I missed.

And most people who I'm communicating regularly with will always copy Allie or I'll loop her in. So if there was something that was a deadline, maybe it's an interview or something that you've got to turn around, it goes on the hot list. So every night for as long as I can remember, I probably, you know, that would be a great sound machine for my kids, my typing on the computer because after I put them to sleep, that's my desk time. So I have from probably nine o'clock and it used to be till about one in the morning. It's gotten better now. I think I signed off like around 1130 last night. If I don't have an event or a commitment, I am in my bedroom in my little cozy area,

jamming through the emails. And I always start with the hot list. And it's helped me to not feel overwhelmed and get behind because anything that was always start with the hot list. And it's helped me to not feel overwhelmed and get behind because anything that was burning goes on the hot list. Everyone knows to email it to Ali or if she saw something come through

that urgently needs attention. And then I get through as many emails as I can. Do I miss stuff? Sure. I mean, I could be totally embarrassing right now and talk about 400,000 emails, 145 voicemails and 47 texts, but it's cool. It feels like it never ends.

I think what a lot of founders do as they also, as their company grows, is they still feel like they have to be part of everything. What I try to tell my team is like, I only want to be sent something if I'm the only person that can handle it. If there's somebody else in the team that would be better suited or that I'm going to, if I'm going to forward it to somebody, then don't even send it because it's probably just going to get lost in the shuffle. And I think a lot of people, as they grow in an organization, they still feel like you probably did everything that's going on. You've probably been a part of every aspect of your business as it's grown. But as you've gone up, there are certain aspects that you have to let go of. And I think a lot of people get stuck because

they hold on to everything. I think they're the only person that can handle something. But if you're doing something the right way, you're bringing on people that can do those things better than you and you need to get out of the way. Can you talk about building a team and how you've managed to build the team bigger and bigger? I'm kind of in the building stages and it's very overwhelming. It is totally overwhelming. And I think both of those comments go hand in hand because a typical, what I would call founder entrepreneur characteristic is this level of perfectionism, right?

You have the vision, you want it to be exactly how you see it. And I really subscribe and have had to, to the 80-20 rule. If there's someone on your team who can do it 80% as well as what you're seeing in brain, then pass it off. And I loved your comment, Michael, that you are bringing in people who can do things better than you. Were you good enough in the beginning? Absolutely. To grow your business to where you were absolutely good enough, but being able to identify these are the areas that are weaknesses or areas that are not stimulating to me. And you can bring in someone that you can

trust. My CFO is far faster at putting together a pivot table P&L than I am. Was I good enough to grow us to where we needed to be until I could hire my exec team? Yeah, but he's better. And being able to say that and then allocate your time where you are truly uniquely value additive, whether it's strategy and then you have someone that can help you execute that strategy or leaning on someone for that strategy. So we did something really interesting with my exec team that I would highly recommend. We had everyone take the Enneagram test. And if you haven't done it, I fully recommend as a couple. Oh my gosh. In my opinion, it is the most superior out of any of the Myers-Briggs. It takes, depending, I mean,

about 20 minutes. Some people can take a little bit longer and it is scary accurate. What does it do? Oh my gosh. So you'll get assigned one of nine different personality types. And it goes through like a number one is a moralist or a reformer, right? You should do this. You shouldn't do that. Very black and white, right? And number three, which is many entrepreneurs, is someone that you, I don't want to misspeak on the adjective that they use for number three. I believe eight is an achiever, seven, nine. So it goes through. And typically, you have a dominant and then you have wings in two areas. And you will have the best time taking it as a couple. But we did it for our executive team as well.

And it was so interesting because my right-hand team member at an executive level is the exact same personality as my husband, which is probably why we work really well together and balance each other. So as you build out your team to be able to say, OK, we're deep here, right? Just like a sports team, right? Like we've got a lot of great fielders. OK, I don't even know what sport that applies to, but something. And then you look at, okay, you know, where do we have opportunity? You know, we don't have a six or we don't have a seven.

Ah, that's smart. So building into, so you have this beautiful, robust team of thought. I mean, what I think would be one of the worst things is if everyone is always agreeing, something's not right. Like you need to be able to have really great informed conversation to say, hey, you know, I'm looking at through this lens and do you guys agree? Or I love it when someone on the team was like, I don't, I don't see it that way. Okay, awesome. Can you help me understand your logic? And let's get to the best conclusion. So I'm not always going to have the right answer all the time. I'll have a point of view, but I think empowering your team to be able to say,

here's how I'm thinking is important. Another lesson that I learned back to efficiency is sometimes you do see what you feel strongly should happen. And I had a tendency to jump to the conclusion and say, okay, perfect. Well, this is what I think we should do without allowing a team member to come to that conclusion as well. So that was something over the years I had to learn of, okay, really deferring to so-and-so, what do you think we should do? Even if you have a point of view. And I think that applies to parenting as well. It's easier for all of us to pick up our kiddo's backpack off the floor that you just tripped over and put it up. But the right thing is to help them go through that, learn the skill, make it happen and develop that habit. So I think really empowering your team is so important. And it's amazing. I have so much respect and learn so much and I'm inspired by our team. And I think

when you give people that creative space to contribute, the most incredible things blossom that you would never have even thought of. Yeah. No, I think it took, it personally took me a while because it's, it's counter to how you, like when you're making friends as a kid, you find people that are similar and have similar tendencies and same type of personality traits. When you're building a company, you almost want somebody that's counter and opposite to you and that used to rub me the wrong way i'm like why is like it i didn't like it some of the and now i they're like vps and like number two and like the best people that i work with i'm like because they're they're completely different than my way of

thinking which i think brings a different light and also sheds light on opportunities that i don't see and i think you need that in an organization because everybody's the same doing the same thing. Then you're stuck, right? A hundred percent. And it just allows you to break through the glass ceilings when you can look at it through a different lens. So I'm always deeply grateful. And I think as a leader, giving space for that commentary, that falls on you at the end of the meeting to say, how do you feel about that? Are we aligned here? Do I see it the same way versus just great rap, move on to the next thing. And that's something that I've had to grow into because in the early

years, you were just scrambling, drowning, doing everything. But because of those years, I do think you have a far greater level of empathy that you really couldn't have developed anywhere else because I feel someone's pain if I was cutting the purchase order and backing into the supply chain and building the Gantt chart for how we were going to accomplish this. I have a different level of respect and empathy that I don't know that I could have really acquired in any other way than living in some way that person's role and contribution. A lot of people want to know what you eat in a day, what your diet's like. It's really embarrassing. What? Tell

us the real truth. I will tell you the real truth. I am probably an extreme eater in the sense that I love really clean organic food. I love a green juice in the morning, but I also love sugar. So I will have no problem having a cupcake at three o'clock in the afternoon because it is there and awesome, but then I'll have a pretty clean dinner, you know? So I think life is about that balance and giving yourself grace to not feel like you're calorie counting and, you know, all of this stuff. For me, I would say I'm not great about having lunch

because there's no lunch break in my day. You know, like it's just, you just roll to the next thing. Lauren gets mad at me for not eating. I forget. Yeah, it's the same. You're like in the zone. So I do always eat something for breakfast. And look, some days it is my kids'

cold scraps off there. Like their leftover pancake bite and whatever. I love the honesty. Yeah. I'm trying to, I don't even know what I had this morning for breakfast. Oh, we got Mustang donuts and I had four donut holes out of my son's donut bag. That's what I had for breakfast. Real story. So I think it's just deciding for you what works, not feeling guilty about either way. And if I had to categorize how I try to eat, it is fruits, vegetables, and protein, but that's easier for me. My sister, she will eat an entire bag of like Texadelphia chips and queso. Like chips are not my, like I would rather go sweet before I go salty. I'm a chip girl. I agree with your sister. Yeah. And that, and I love that, you know, my husband's more that way and I've had to convert him. No one wants to eat dessert alone. It's like drinking alone,

you know, some of this. Yeah. I have found in my life and from my modeling years where that was a requirement, like you have to fit into the clothes, right? I saw a lot of girls go down a path that was really sad where you obsess over it. You start defining your worth around it. And I think not putting yourself in that mental place and doing what feels healthy for you is the right thing. And for me personally, look, an extra five pounds up or five pounds down, live your life and give yourself that grace. Get pregnant, have a baby. It's all going to come off at some point. Just

let yourself enjoy that moment and that chapter. But when I get stressed, I have a tendency to not eat or forget to eat. So I have probably struggled more during some years of not pausing enough because I was on a plane. I was running to the next thing in the time zone. And then you feel kind of nauseous because the time answer not really. So I have to do a better job of protein shakes that I keep in the fridge that I try to do for lunch. I'll just go grab one. I can't remember the name. Blue cap is the brand. It has a blue cap. I have to think of the name. I know there's some different meals that I've done before in order to the house. You know, those ones that you can heat up that are real healthy.

Snap kitchen. I did that. And then I had like 18 in the fridge. I'm like, this is not working. I'm not getting through these things. So I think just experiment what works for you, but you don't want to be hangry at the end of the day. So for my husband's sake, I do try to put something in my mouth. I think the bigger thing, I don't want to be delicate here, but I do want to say that food has not necessarily been, I do forget like you and I do get too busy, but it has not necessarily been an issue because I also don't stress so much about it. And when I'm hungry, I eat and... That's what I'm getting to. Yeah. And I think... He has no attachment at all to food. I've never seen anything like it. I've never... I've known him since we were 12 and I've never heard him say, I'm craving this.

It's not that I don't have the attachment. I do think that sometimes people get in trouble with food because they obsess over it. They either obsess because they want it so much or they obsess because they want it so little. And I think when you're constantly stressing yourself out about diet, it does worse things to the body than if you were just to kind of not think about it and just kind of go about your day with what works. I know that's not easy for everyone. I'm probably not the right expert, but in my own experience, I think not obsessing over food and dieting has been helpful because I see people that do stress over, they tend to have the most problems, at least from what I've observed, because all that cortisol of obsessing over diet and fitness

and food and all that stuff, it can't be good for the body or the mind. I agree with that. I will say when I was modeling, I weighed myself almost every day. And it couldn't be healthy for your mental well-being. And to be honest, it was more because I was lazy. I didn't want to gain five pounds and not realize it and then have to put the work in to go, you know, so I'm like, I'll just kind of like check in on things. But to your point of the mental well-being, in hindsight, that was probably not super healthy. I mean, I hadn't weighed myself in years. And ironically,

you are typically the only one who notices if you're 10 pounds up or down. So I think from a happiness factor perspective, if that's something, and whether it's fitness, food, if there's anything in your life that is occupying an enormous amount of your mind space, I think really confronting it and understanding why it's there, addressing it, and going through the work that needs to be done to come to peace with it allows you to unlock mind space and creative energy that can have an amazing outcome. So for me, I think as the business grew, I don't even know when I stopped making sure, because that was part of, that was my job. I have to do this, fit into the clothes, da-da-da. But I didn't physically really change after, but I let go of that mental peace, I imagine, and replaced it

with something that was so much more stimulating and rewarding. That makes sense. What I'm saying will probably be getting taken out of context. I guess the point I'm trying to make is I think obsessing over anything, whether it's relationship, food, or business, to a point is probably not healthy for your mental well-being. And ultimately, if you're spiking cortisol, maybe not even for your body. So I just try to not obsess over anything besides my wife. What is the key to a happy, healthy marriage when you're both so entrepreneurial? That's a great question. Number one, the gift of time. So really scheduling and that time together. Truly, it shows, I think, a mutual respect for one another's life calendar and

knowing. I remember hearing this from a lecture that I thought was so awesome. And it was, we all want to be in what they called H-frame relationships. So you think about the letter H, right? Two solid pillars, and then they're bonded together by this middle bar, right? If you think about an A-frame relationship, that's from this lecture, where we don't want to be because letter A, right? If one side falls, the other side collapses. Pretty powerful visual. Whoa, that's cool. I love that. So the goal is you have two mutually respected, awesome individuals that stand on their own, but then when you put them together, even stronger.

I'm obsessed with that. Yeah. What a great analogy. Yeah, I love that. It's always stuck with me too. And I think by prioritizing that person to say, we both have a lot going on, but I care about you because I'm getting in late tonight. Last night, we both had a YPO event.

We made time to go to the Charles and have dinner beforehand and just catch up and, hey, babe, how was your day? And remember that we each fell in love with our significant other just for who they are. And it's easy to get into tasking conversation mode where it's like, did you get the baby? And you don't pause. That's Michael's favorite, tasking. Yeah, I'm a big tasking conversation. Did he break out of the tasking conversation? Anytime he does that, now I'm going to go, I'm not into this. I'm disengaging with this tasking. That's right. That's Michael's favorite, tasking. Yeah, I'm a big tasking conversation. Let me break out of the tasking conversation. Anytime he does that, now I'm going to go, I'm not into this. I'm disengaging with this tasking.

That's right. That's right. Listen, this is really like what we do here. I'm not kidding. Like Lauren and I get, we take people like yourself on the show and we get the advice and it helps us in our own life. I always tell people,

I'm like, we're learning at the same time as the people listening a lot of the time. Go on with the tasking. I want to hear more. We're going to steal a lot of this advice. You're not going to deflect your energy. I want to hear more. All right, let's wrap it up. No, no, no, no, no. We will dive deep. But ditto. And as well as a dual working couple and any advice that I'm always open because there's always,

someone has figured something out in a different way than I have. So with regards to that piece, I think number one is time. Number two, making sure that the dialogue doesn't always circle around tasking, which is hard, especially when you both work. You're both very goal-oriented. It's hard to not get into that piece, but carving out time to really talk. What are you reading? What are you into? I would say number three, pick an activity you can do together. And whether it's a Netflix binge watch of Schitt's Creek or whether it is golfing or something that you can do, because that's when that connectivity, like think back to when you were dating.

It didn't matter what you were doing. It was just doing something together. So continuing, especially as work grows, family grows, does something that is a coming together point. We haven't been great about this with COVID, but we used to do kind of like a pillow talk tea time when schedules were crazy or we weren't seeing each other every night. He was gone, I was gone, where you just, we love like a great hot herbal tea at night and just sit down and it

can be 10 minutes, but just sitting down and having that moment together, whatever, it's a glass of wine, whatever your thing is, just that kind of coming together. But I think it really does, it's driven by the calendar. Otherwise, expectation, it's just not going to happen. And then all of a sudden, five years have gone by and you're feeling apart. Just like a business, you have to put the work in. We tried skiing together the other day and it almost got my eye taken out by a pole. So I picked the wrong hobby. That's not the right activity. I picked the wrong activity. Wine in bed sounds better to me. I love wine, eye gels, Netflix. Yes. I want to know more about your micro-needling tool. That was your hero tool that you launched with. Can you speak about what the white space you saw when you decided to launch that, how the launch went, how it's doing now, just the whole tool aspect of it? Yeah, thank you.

So it's interesting because when we started working on microneedling, this was over a decade ago. I mean, we filed the patent over a decade ago. Avant-garde. Yeah. Wow. And I can't take credit because my father had this idea of, okay, we're making all these amazing ingredients, these peptides, these incredible

things that when you put them in, first you test what's called in vitro in a petri dish, and then you see what's going on. And then you start testing in vivo, which means in human form, once it's safe, it's ready to go. Did the wrinkle disappear? Did the spot fade? So what we found is that in vitro, you'd have this incredible fibroblastic activity, collagen, which just kind of gives you the bounce of the skin, was really prolific. And then you would try it on human form and you didn't get the same results, right?

Maybe like 10 or 20% of the results. So he had this idea of, look, why can't we almost aerate the skin, right? We know that to get that type of activity, that ingredient has to get down into the skin where it can actually be effective. If it's sitting on the surface, your skin does an amazing job of keeping the bad stuff out and the good stuff in, right? So even ingredients that would be great for your body, it wants to block, if you will. So the idea was, let's create like an aeration effect, right? So we can get these ingredients down into the skin,

you know, down to the dermal epidermal junction, so you can see results. And what we found was unbelievable, 200 times better absorption of these active ingredients. And then we had this amazing side effect, like all great science experiments, right? That when you microneedle the skin, we know that to regenerate the skin, you have to wound the skin. So whether it's chemical peel, which started in the 70s, whether it's microdermabrasion in the 80s or 90s, and my dad was one of the original patent holders on microderma and helped bring some of that over. Then lasers became really popular, you know, like early 2000s.

It doesn't matter if you burn it off, fry it off, scrub it off. You're still entering the skin to create new skin. It's the wound healing response. So what we found was, okay, instead of like horizontally burning it, eating it off, if we vertically, which still keeps the skin intact, you actually get a better response with no downtime. So it's a microscopic injury versus a macro big downtime. I need Vaseline on my skin injury. And our skin's the largest organ in our body. We forget that. Just like you wouldn't run a marathon without training, right? The trauma for the skin is not great. It's much better to walk

three days a week than run a marathon and be like, well, 2021 fitness is done, right? So we found that using microneedling with Glow Pro at home three times a week, actually over a six month period exceeded our clinical deeper microneedling that you would do maybe once a quarter, something like that. So it's been really amazing

because it helps all of your topicals, whatever you're using, drink it and become more effective. And on its own, if you're into super clean beauty with no ingredients, it actually helps wrinkle reduction by 30%. It helps even out your skin tone because you're forcing new skin.

Like when you get a paper cut, you look down, you're like, is it gonna bleed? Is it not gonna bleed? Either way, it heals. Either way, it is going to create new skin because we're beings of survival. So it really is this amazing trick for your skin. Your skin turns over really rapidly when you're young, but as you age, it really has a hard time turning over. So you're just manually helping to awaken your skin,

if you will. So at night, Glow Pro, then apply your skincare. You'll feel it the next morning. I've gifted you both. Try it the next morning like it's i've gifted you both try it you will love it and then i can't believe i haven't tried it i mean i've tried microneedling in a doctor's office and now i have three hundred dollars a pop and buy a six pack yeah and also what you're selling too is time right absolutely the downtime that that is that is the best and that's to me that's the ultimate ultimate. I mean, I have time to go get one microneedling treatment, but then you're right. You have to keep going back. Right. And what we found, I mean, there are so many knockoffs now, which keep our team

really busy. But as the original patent holders for microneedling, like literally it's hanging in our office. There are deep microneedling treatments for like a really deep scar or really deep stretch mark that should only be done in office. You bleed, you need lidocaine, that's a whole situation. But there is a needle length that we identified that took, I can't tell you how many prototypes, to get to. And the angle, the substrate, all of it is detailed in the patent. Even the density of needles, material, and so forth forth that still triggers the wound healing response without having to get down into the hence the you know bloody layers so hence the you know paper

cut analogy that look even if it doesn't bleed it still heals right i have a story for you about your product but i forgot oh one of my girlfriends used a knockoff and the needle was too long oh my gosh and she rolled her skin and then she went on the subway in new york and she got staph infection and then she said i'm never doing this again and and then she said someone recommended your product she uses it all the time now that makes me and i and now that i'm hearing you talk it's because the needle of the knockoff was way too long and penetrated way too deep. So maybe you could talk about how it's important to make sure you're using the right one. It is.

So I will say, I don't know of another knockoff tool that replicates what we've replicated with Glow Pro down to, as silly as it sounds, if you saw under a microscope, the shape of the needle, the length, the density, all of it. They're either too long or too few. The material is crazy. They're bent. And that's where I say you shouldn't. I mean, I obviously have a bias, but unless it's GloPro, I wouldn't feel safe trusting my face to anything else at home. The Amazon $5. Oh my gosh, no. But again, that's's me personally we know every person in all of our clinical studies has seen improvement in their skin so all i can say and speak to our product

because i haven't you know tried every other one that's out there you know that you will see results and as the original i don't know anyone that's done more research because we're the original patent holders for this entire concept. And I think that the delineation of it's not just microneedling as a category, it's microneedling at home with the appropriate tool to give you the right result, right? You can go on a diet and there are a lot of different diets you can choose from, all going to have a different result, right? So I think to your point, using the right methodology is super important because you have this investment here and you own it for life.

So I love being able to offer things that are valuable to the customer in the sense that, look, for less than the price of one microneedling treatment, and P.S., we used to do this same length of needle in the office only, and it cost a lot, right? So you roll it over your face and then apply the skincare. Yeah, and it drinks in. And you roll it dry? Clean, dry skin. So at night,

and we have these little prep pads that we developed that are an alcohol-free alternative. Okay. That if you're, I'm very by the book with regards to protocol. So you don't have to use them,

but if someone coughed on you, whatever, just like you don't want to use a lipstick that has been rolling around forever. I like swiping my skin with the prep pads just to get, they kill the P-bacterium that causes breakouts. They're awesome. You can do it every night? Every night or at least three nights a week, but you can do it every night. Okay. I have had a lot of guy friends use this for balding, microneedling. I'm so glad that you asked. Yeah. I want to talk about the balding aspect because I

know that there's, I think even Kourtney Kardashian had a patch and she went to Dr. Diamond to microneedle. So anyone that's experiencing balding, can you speak about that? So we just launched our brand new scalp set. Oh. It has become, well, I can't even believe like,

so Huda of Huda Beauty started using her Glow Pro on her scalp about a year ago and doing a series of videos about it. So, then people were like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. We had already been working for the last almost five years with alopecia patients. Because as soon as we launched Glow Pro almost five years ago, people were like, my beard is growing back. My eyebrows are growing back.

Yeah, it grows hair. It totally does. What it really does is optimizes whatever your skin cell is designed to do with this rebirth, if you will. It does. It's like muscle memory, cellular memory. You're not going to start growing a hair out of your cheek. But if that cell was programmed to grow an eyebrow hair, when you optimize it, right, almost reawaken it. It makes sense.

It makes so much sense. So it was incredible. So years before even people were talking about scalp microneedling, we were already there. And then adding to our, you know, you have FDA 513G and all, you know, the background for this piece. So we had already been working on this. And when people started using Glow Pro on their scalp, I'm like, just wait, because we had developed a new attachment head that has, it's bendable. So it goes around, you know, round contours and it will never get tangled in your hair. It's fabulous. And you can spot treat like after you have a baby,

no one tells you all your hair falls off. Like it is the craziest thing. And then as we age, just like collagen on your face depletes collagen on your scalp, your scalp is skin. This is skincare for your scalp. That makes total sense. And we have a serum that we sell with it that is a minoxidil alternative because that's very chemically and grows back kind of like cotton puff hair. It's made with loquat leaf and zinc and rose bait extract and these amazing ingredients that are known to help with not only dry scalp and build all the buildup, but actually feeds your scalp. Just like if you never used a moisturizer, would your skin be dry? Of course, right like if you never used a moisturizer, would your skin be dry? Of course, right? If you never used retinol, would you probably end up with fine lines? Of

course, or sunscreen, same thing for your scalp. We're using all this dry shampoo, all of the starch filled stuff and expecting to grow this mermaid hair. If you're not stimulating the scalp with Glow Pro and then allowing that skincare for your scalp to drink in, you won't get the results. So in our clinical study, and this is amazing, 50% improvement in hair growth. It makes sense. Harrison Ford said in an interview, and I told this to Michael a long time ago, that he would stimulate his scalp every day by just massaging. And if you think about the last time you got your scalp massaged, a lot of people never touched their scalp.

Right. So to be able to have this tool, what I'm going to do when you go to bed, I'm going to schedule this in my calendar, is I'm going to roll it all over the cul-de-sac line of your hairline. Can I have one now? Yeah. Yeah. She gifted you one.

No, you don't have a cul-de-sac. We gifted. You have more hair than we can do. Oh, he has to show his hair off. We know you have a lot of hair. But maybe I'll need it right here. We get it. You have great hair. we can do oh he has to show his hair off we know you have a lot of hair but maybe I'll need it right here we get it

you have great hair I love it but that is an area that starts for guys and to be honest even doing it at least a couple times a week

to maintain the hair you have hair doesn't just fall out all of a sudden like I always tell girls to pull their hair back like this and if you look at

the first two inches of your hairline and you can see your scalp, you're already starting to experience hair loss. But it would make sense for everybody to do it all around. Oh, that's my last time. I know, right? Oh, my God.

I know, I know. Wouldn't it make sense for everybody to kind of do it around just to like make sure? For sure. Right? I'm going to do it. Yes. Like even if you have good hair, it's like, why not just do it around here? I'm so interested in the scalp part.

Because think about it, guys. Like, has anyone ever gone to the grave with hair that looks like a 25-year-old? No, but I'm working on it. No, right? But you might. So the point is, it's not a matter of if, it's when. And it is something that you can, even looking at the back of a woman, often tell her age by her hair. Is it full? Is it what's happening there? And if you're someone that hasn't had full hair, it's a way to help stimulate. And then if you're someone that wants to had full hair it's a way to help stimulate and then if you're someone that wants to maintain making sure that we're treating it and to your point investing

you know 60 seconds a week to to stimulate but even for men like pat you get like sometimes as you age you get like patchy areas on your beard so november we launched our men's set just in time for november and it it blew out because you're right you know you want that so i can use the the roller that you gifted us on our scalps, like on the line. We have a separate scalp one that I gifted you. Okay. So I like to use the face attachment on my face.

Okay. And then the scalp attachment on my scalp because it's contoured differently. Got it. And the needle density is slightly different on each. And then there's a body attachment head as well that is amazing. And you can use it on

your body oh my gosh i've micro needled my arms before you guys and it is uh amazing like my arms were glowing glowing yeah i mean nothing micro needling is i will say whenever someone asks me if you have to like pay for to go get a procedure i always say micro needling but to know that you can do it at home now is just so incredible. This may be a stupid question, but how often can you microneedle without doing it too much? Great question. So it's almost like washing your hair, right? If you wash it 10 times in the shower versus one, there's not really an added benefit. So I would say 60 seconds once a day, just let the weight of the tool glide over the skin. We'll do a whole, a whole sesh before I leave. It's super easy. And then immediately apply your skincare because that skincare drinks in, I mean, think how fast your body heals, right?

Maybe you can show my Instagram story, like a three-part Instagram story. So when this airs, it can go up to, and people can see what you're talking about. No, absolutely. I am. I think this genius. Like, such a big fan of it. And the other piece I want to comment as well is our business, as we've grown, is actually now half tools, half topicals. So while Glow Pro has continued to be the top beauty tool, the full methodology that we should all be practicing

is tools and topicals together, right? Like, topicals are going to get you so far. Tools are going to get you so... You really, just like a great esthetician, dermatologist, you're going to use the methodologies together. So I'm a big believer in using vitamin C during the day. And I prefer acid-free vitamin C. Most people use ascorbic acid, which can be burning and irritating at higher percentages. So we use magnesium ascorbyl phosphate for our daily serum, and then at night using retinol or vitamin A. And I love our nightly serum. And then we do kind of a more intense retinol booster,

almost like you'd run a marathon twice a year, called R45. You guys will have to do it with us, R45 Day Challenge at the end of this month. Love it. It's awesome. And your skin is insane. And that methodology of vitamin C during the day, plus SPF, use physical barriers, zinc oxide, titanium dioxide, so important to use SPF, that 90% of aging comes from the sun. So, but in terms of vitamins, like we all take a multivitamin, this is vitamins for your skin. Again, largest living organ. So vitamin C during the day, then vitamin A at night, like if you'll stick with those two pillars, there's a ton of watermelon, like there's a lot of different ingredients but those you ask any dermatologist any skin expert starting as those as your foundation ingredients are going

to be you will yourself 10 years from now we'll we'll thank you can we do a little giveaway if people follow beauty bio for sure okay absolutely can we do like a little you're like you're jamie's favorite we'll do a whole whatever you think i'll do a whole bundle and the value is around a thousand dollars oh wow i was no no no we're gonna do it we're doing it we're gonna do like my my morning routine my nighttime routine love it and we'll do absolutely follow follow beauty bio yes i'm at jamie o'bannon okay and then tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at lauren bostick so that's at Beauty Bio and say and spell at Jamie. Yep. At Jamie O'Banion.

J-A-M-I-E-O-B-A-N-I-O-N. Love it. You are a force to be reckoned with. I'm very excited to see what happens in the next five years. You're giving me drunk elephant vibes. Oh, I love you. Honestly, I am so grateful to be on the journey. In your own way, though.

In your own way. I think it's so cool because you're opening space up for women founders that are coming into this space. Like what you've done is just amazing. And you're a mother at the same time, which like we said earlier, it's a lot to juggle and a wife. One more time, where can everyone find you? Where can they shop the products?

You can come back anytime to the podcast. Oh, you're awesome. So I would say in the US, Sephora, Ulta, Nordstrom, and Neiman Marcus. You're busy. And if you are across the pond, and Harrods and Selfridges, and then Mecca in Australia, we just launched a few months ago, and they've been amazing. And then if you're listening in Canada, you can shop at Holt Renfrew or Sephora Canada or Nordstrom Canada. And of course, beautybio.com. Love it. Thank you so much for coming on.

Oh, thank you both so much. I enjoyed it. I'm inspired by you guys as well and all that you're doing. Thank you. And we can stay in touch and be a support group for each other. I love it.

I cannot wait to try. We're coming to visit in Dallas. I gotta get up there to see my sister anyways. Yes, come up. Come and stay. Hey guys, don't forget to use code TSC20 at checkout. You get 20% off. If you were going to start with one product, I would pick the microneedler. And this is the only microneedler

that I will use. Jamie described why on the podcast. I really like using it on my hairline. Michael uses it on his hairline too. We just do 60 seconds every single night. I think it really, really works for hair growth. So if you're going to start with one product, I really did my research and looked at all of them. They're all amazing, but I would start with the microneedler. Try it on your scalp, especially if you're experiencing postpartum hair loss. Use code TSC20 at checkout for 20% off and we'll see you next time.