The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Better Skin, Better Sleep, & A Better Life - The Benefits Of Red Light Therapy With Joovv

Episode Date: November 26, 2019

#230: On this episode we sit down with the team behind one of our favorite tech brands, Joovv! We are joined today by co-founder Scott Nelson and head of business development Wes Pfiffner. Joovv is trailblazing the red light therapy space by providing one of the best products on the market. The benefits of red light therapy include; skin health & rejuvenation, sleep optimization, cellular energy, muscle & joint recovery, hormone balance, and more. Today we are breaking the benefits of red light therapy and Joovv down and discussing how you can benefit from this technology by implementing it into your daily routine. To learn more about Joovv click HERE To receive a free gift when you purchase a Joovv click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by ButcherBox This Black Friday, your first box comes with ButcherBox's Ultimate Steak Sampler - That's eight FREE steaks! Just go to ButcherBox.com/SKINNY or use promo code SKINNY at checkout This episode is brought to you by THRIVE MARKET. We use Thrive for our online grocery delivery on a weekly basis and we also now get our wine at Thrive! They provide the highest quality products and ingredients delivered straight to our door with unbeatable prices.  Head over to https://thrivemarket.com/skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle! This episode is brought to you by Joovv. Experience the benefits of red light therapy by one of the best in the business; JOOVV! To experience the Joovv and receive a free gift with purchase go to joovv.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media   

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This episode is brought to you by Juve. Red light therapy, one of my favorite, favorite things to do. I do it every single morning. Lauren does it. It's great for skin health and rejuvenation, inflammation, sleep optimization, muscle recovery, cellular energy, sexual performance, hormone balance, and for the men out there, it can boost your testosterone. Does it sound too good to be true? Well, in this episode, we're getting into all of it with the founders of Juve, the team

behind this amazing company. Guys, you got to check it out. But for those of you that can't wait, we have a special offer. Go to juve, J-O-O-V-V.com slash skinny and use code skinny to receive a free gift with your purchase. That's J-O-O-V-V.com slash skinny. Juve, to receive a free gift with your purchase. That's J O O V V.com slash skinny juve guys. Check it out with that. Let's get into the show. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur,

a very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Ha ha. I probably spent 95%, probably more than that, like indoors because it's dark most of the time. You commute to work. You're in the office like all day. By the time you leave, the sun sets.

And so it's like, is that really an ideal lifestyle to be be living no natural light under dmv light all the time and then when you get home in the evenings you're blasted by like the bright blue light from your screens and so it's just so drastically different than like how our bodies have adapted over time to natural sunlight and i think it's just it's one of the big things that's so underappreciated when it comes to like health welcome back everybody we are in the red light district today the red light district It's one of the big things that's so underappreciated when it comes to health. Welcome back, everybody. We are in the red light district today. The red light district.

That clip was from our guests of the show today, the founders behind Juve. Guys, in this episode, we're talking all about red light therapy, the benefits, the myth, the beauty behind this amazing technology. For those of you that are new to the show, my name is Michael Bostic. I'm a serial entrepreneur and brand builder, most recently the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And across from me, my very, very pregnant wife, Lauren Everts. We're going to talk about how pregnant I am in a second. I'm Lauren Everts, Bostic. Depending on the day, I'm an entrepreneur and the creator of The Skinny Confidential. And like Michael said, very pregnant, eight months to be exact and about to explode. You're still looking good.

Thanks, babe. Thanks. That's really sweet of you. You came in to my room while I was meditating with my Headspace app. I had 10 minutes to myself this morning. My eyes were closed. The vibe was meditation vibes. And you came in and proceeded to stand over me and tell me that you had a freckle in your mouth. Well, I'd never seen it before. I actually don't spend a lot of time like looking into my mouth. And for whatever reason today I was called, I just wanted to look in there. Okay. Here's my thing. Everything hurts on my entire body. I have the worst heartburn ever. I'm carrying around God knows how much weight I am feeling huge, bloated, whatever. I don't need to know

about the black freckle in your mouth at this point. I didn't. I mean, listen, I understand you're going through all that, but I just didn't. You understand. I don't see how one thing correlates to the other. I can have a freckle as well that I need that may need attention. OK, so Taylor and I have discussed this and what a great source to discuss this with. Taylor, back me up here. I'm going to be mad if you go on Michael's side like you always do. No, I'm already on board with this. Michael doesn't really know anything about it.

We'll see who's a real man here and see if he's even able to kind of partake in this little adventure. Okay. So I went and asked the audience on Instagram stories what I should do to get back at you for- No, all I did was ask a question. Well, shouldn't have asked.

So they said to get back at you like a, no. All I did was ask a question. Well, shouldn't have asked. So they, they said to get back at you, like a good scheme to give you some perspective. Someone said, run him over with a bus. That seems a little bit, uh, that, that seems like a far, um, you know, a little bit of an overreaction, a labor stimulator where you, you get hooked up to a labor stimulator and it shows you what a contractions like the thing where they put the electrical stems on your stomach. I thought you said it labia stimulator for a second. Taylor, of course you did. The other one, which is my idea, was to have you carry around a 20 pound pumpkin for the day. However, the majority of these responses, ready? Yeah, I'm listening. Make him wear a fake pregnancy belly. Why would I ever do that? Because I asked a question. So I went online

and I ordered a fake 40 pound pregnancy suit. I have decided with Taylor that you will be wearing one for one day. We're going to document it. Why would I ever do that? A hundred percent. Hold on. Why would I ever do that? You're not going to rise to the challenge? No, of course not. I already ordered it. That doesn't make any sense. Yeah. I'm going to have you. I'm not one of those guys that's got to live up to the challenge. You want to get girls pregnant, but you don't want to be the man. Yep. Wait, Taylor, hold on. Let me ask you where your mind's at here. So you think that it's manly to dress up like a pregnant woman and wear a belly? I agree with her in the sense of I think I, as a man, have no idea

what her body's going through or what it's like to be able to kind of live with that weight and how it's like held at the front of your body of your your body so i think it's an interesting experiment for me to be able to better understand lauren see i'm i'm i'm a smart enough man to understand that men will never understand the burdens of pregnancy i'm not even going to try to figure it out i understand that it's not easy i get that because i'm not going to try to sit here and figure out what it's like walk a mile in her pregnant shoes because you decided to talk about the freckle in your mouth today, which probably was a black piece of pepper from last night's lentil pasta. I have ordered this suit. It is coming. I propose and I think the audience will agree with me that you wear it for one day. I'm

not going to wear for a day. I'll wear it for a little while. No, Lauren, you've known me. You've known me long enough to know that like you're not going to get in with the first ask, right? It's not going to be a full day. Let's just cut to the chase. It's a negotiation. I'll probably agree to something, but it's not a full day. Okay. I'm going to say maybe an hour, 30 minutes, an hour. Okay. That's about it. Taylor has offered to wear it for a full day and have me document it. Perfect. Great. So regardless, you're going to wear it. He's going to wear it. And then he's going to give a full recap on the podcast. And he said he will wear it to work. He will wear it from the second. No, he's not wearing it to work. Yes, he is.

I'm just going to wear some loose fitting clothing. You're not coming into this office. Okay. You know what? Actually, I don't care. You know what? That's fine. Don't discriminate against Taylor. Taylor is going to be pregnant for a whole day at Dear Media. Okay. Taylor, I can't wait. So everyone who gave me that idea, thank you. I ordered the suit. It'll be here next week.

That is the challenge. Okay. Challenge accepted for 30 minutes to an hour. So wanted to just tell you, I am doing a giveaway every single day this week for Thanksgiving to give back to you guys in the community. You guys are amazing. So every day, seven days a week, there will be a giveaway on my Instagram stories, which is so fun. All you have to do to be entered for these giveaways is you have to rate

and review the podcast. Super easy. Takes five seconds on iTunes and then tag a friend to be a part of the skinny confidential community on my latest Instagram. And speaking of giveaways, there is a giveaway at the end of this episode for the handheld Juve light, which I'm obsessed with. I use it every single morning. It wakes me up. It's so good for your skin, fine lines, wrinkles, hyperpigmentation, the works. So guys, as mentioned in the beginning of this episode, this episode is brought to you by Juve. And on this episode, we get to sit down with the team behind this amazing red light therapy. Lauren and I love this product so much. I use it every single morning.

Lauren uses it in the morning. I use the huge one, full body. You're going to hear in a minute. So we had Scott Nelson and Wes Fiffner on the show. Scott Nelson is a co-founder for Juve. Prior to starting Juve, he spent his entire professional career in a leadership position with some of the largest medical device companies in the world, including Medtronic, Covidian, and Boston Scientific.

In his spare time, Scott is also the host of the MedCider Radio, a top-ranked medical device podcast. Wes Fiffner is employee number two at Juve and leads all of the business development. Wes has a background in marketing and is a complete nerd when it comes to all things health and fitness related. Guys, with that, welcome the Juve team, Scott and Wes to the show. Let's get into it. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Let's just hop right into this. Is it okay that my husband stands butt naked with his balls hanging down his leg

in front of the juve light every single day? Absolutely. Yes. I told you it feels good. So there's benefits for his balls. Yeah. There's benefits for the whole, the whole body. Yeah. Everything, all over everything. Your body is like a solar panel when it comes to, to red and near infrared light. So after I give birth, I should just stand in front of there? Yes. Because it's healing, right? Absolutely. Let the old girls hang out, get out. It feels good, man. I'm going to let everything hang out after I give birth in front of that light. I'm going to let you know. Well, if you think about it, we all used to be out in the sun. I mean, think about old tribal days. You'd be barely clothed out in the sun. And now, even living in LA,

I see people covered up most of the time, even when the sun's out. She's in a hoodie right now. I mean, I don't know what's going on here. I'm in a hoodie because I just like, I'm feeling fat after In-N-Out. So let's, I want to go, we're going to go into a lot of places on this episode, but I want to go way back and talk to you guys about how you got started with Juve, how you had the idea, what enabled you to say, hey, this product needs to be in the market, it needs to exist. And I know like, you know, talking about the sun, like maybe you could go back and give us a little bit of history. Go for it, Scott. You want to take that one? So this is like three or four years ago. We were in Minneapolis, not a lot of natural sunlight,

especially for long periods of time. And my wife and Wes's sister actually went to a spa in Minneapolis that was offering red light therapy. They went consistently like four or five times a week for eight to 10 weeks. So really good skin health benefits, but hated having to go to like a commercial setting that often. And for that long of a period of time, plus it's kind of expensive, right? So they were looking for something they could use at home and that, you know, the rest of the family could benefit from. And that started sort of this idea of starting a business we didn't intend to, you know, most, you know, kind of like most, most startup companies, but there wasn't at the time,

this was early 2015. Most of the products available on the market were either really small or really underpowered. And no one was really talking about light therapy, tons of science to support it, tons of clinical studies. You had to like go deep on like PubMed and all of these, like, you know, down these rabbit trails to like get digestible, easily understandable information. So we were like, why? There's all this like really cool science that supports the, you know, red and near infrared light therapy, but like no one's talking about it and there really isn't great products. And so we're like, well, maybe, maybe that's a good sign. Maybe we should make one, you know?

So that was back in 2015, ended up launching our first product in early 2016 and after the races. So there's a, I mean, like you said, there's a ton of clinical studies and benefits, but in a nutshell, I mean, what would be the most important thing to know about red light therapy? That's hard to narrow down to one thing. Well, we're going to go into a lot of areas, but I just think like, you know, if someone's completely unfamiliar with this, like why would they endeavor into red light therapy? So this is going to sound a bit like a late night infomercial, but so natural light is a good thing. A lot of us, a lot of people that are listening to this show are maybe semi-afraid of the sun. Natural light is a good thing in moderation. And then specifically

red and then near infrared light can lead to a ton of benefits. So everything from more collagen for your skin, less fine lines and wrinkles, to faster muscle recovery, to better hormone health, to enhanced cognitive function. I mean, the list literally goes on and on. But the most important thing to consider is that all of it's like legit. Sounds like a late night infomercial, but it really isn't. I feel like a lot of my audience is going to want to know about hyperpigmentation and pregnancy masks. That's one of the first questions that I asked you guys. Can you just speak on what you recommend when it comes to brown spots or melasma? Sure. So the evidence is kind of mixed when it comes to this. And I think it's important, and we may get into this in a little bit more detail. I don't want to get too geeky here, but it's important to understand like our bodies respond

to different wavelengths of light. So whether it's red light, blue light, near infrared light, et cetera. And there is some evidence that shows that people who have a tendency for hyperpigmentation, that near-infrared light can exaggerate it because it stimulates melanocytes, which are the cells in our body that produce more melanin. And so what I would like the short answer is stick to red light. There's really no downside benefits to red light at all. In fact, if you're using light therapy predominantly for better skin, red light's the best wavelength for that. So stick with red, maybe tend to avoid near infrared. Quick break to tell you about Thrive Market. Okay. So you know what I take

very seriously? What's that, Lauren? My dogs. I don't screw around when it comes to my dogs. The other day on Instagram story, I was feeding my dogs very specific products, bone broth to be exact with a little bit of pumpkin. And you guys asked a bunch of questions and where we get that is off Thrive Market. Thrivemarket.com guys. How many times do we need to tell you about these amazing partners? They are one of our favorite services. Get everything from snacks, household supplies, dog treats, wine, beauty supplies, supplements, you name it, they got it. Anyway, like Michael said, you can get groceries straight to your door and beauty products. And I mean beauty products that are good. The Aztec Healing Clay Mask is so popular in the Skinny Confidential Facebook

group. I've been using it since I was 21. Definitely pick up that. And then you can get your dog's goodies. I mean, bone broth, the dogs, you just put a little bit over their kibble and then a scoop of pumpkin on top, get the organic pumpkin from Thrive and you are good to go. Bone broth and pumpkin have tons of benefits, especially for dog's joints. Pixie has bad joints. So this is something that we're constantly using in her food. And the best part about Thrive Market is everything is 25 to 50% below retail. You can shop by specific diet, whether you're paleo, gluten-free, vegetarian, vegan, they have it all, guys. And for those of you that have not tried Thrive Market yet,

I don't know where you've been living under a rock, they have very easy entry points into membership. So there's three new membership options. First is you can do a one-month membership for just $9.95 a month. Second is a three-month membership for $6.65 a month. And finally, the one that we use is a 12-month membership for only $5 a month, billed at $59.95. And for anyone that's signing up new, we have a special offer, up to $20 of shopping credit when you join today. That's thrivemarket.com slash skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle. That's thrivemarket.com slash skinny. Enjoy guys. Definitely pick up an Aztec healing clay mask, some pumpkin for your dog, and maybe even some bone broth. You can't go wrong. All right, let's get back into the show. You touched briefly on how sunlight is good for us. It can be good for us, but so many people think now they got to stay out of the sun. They got to put sunscreen on. They got to hide from the sun.

They don't want to age. So what can red light therapy do to kind of supplement and benefit the lack of sunlight that we're all getting? It's in a ton of ways. And I think it goes to people just misunderstand light in general. Dr. Sachin Pan, if you've ever read his book, The Circadian Codes, he talks about, go ahead. No, no, no. I was going to say there's a great book. Yeah. And he talks about how your body runs on those rhythms and one of those rhythms that is light. Light is a signal caller for the body. It's what wakes us up in the morning. It's what tells us the lack of light,

what tells us to go to bed. So when you're getting those natural wavelengths, our body needs those. We need it beyond vitamin D and we need it even right in the morning. You need bright light to get cortisol going to wake yourself up. So the sun is 50% red and near infrared in the morning. You need bright light to get cortisol going to wake yourself up. So the sun is 50% red and near infrared all the time. And so those are natural wavelengths that actually can stimulate cellular production to increase energy in your body, essentially.

So when we talk about these benefits of collagen, testosterone, joint pain relief, inflammation, cognitive enhancement, it's literally just giving your body energy similar to how you would see a solar panel on the roof. Human bodies are no different. We require light in the exact same way. I will say this, like we were joking around. I mean, it is true that I go buck wild and just get in front of that thing first thing in the morning, but I wake up and I go in my office and that's where that big panel is. And I turn it on and I just stand there back in front for 10 minutes. And honestly, I get so much energy. I'm immediately awake. I'm ready to go.

And it's, you know, this long ramp up period that I had to take before I started using the Juve is completely gone. Now I'm like 10 minutes. I'm like ready and wired. And I don't know if that's because of what you're talking about or just because my body's getting energy or sunlight. Like, you know, I think back to how our ancestors were and they probably, you know, when they woke up in the morning, the sun was out and they were out with it.

But now with us, we stay indoors for sometimes hours before we even see the light of day. Yeah. I mean, it's actually even more than that. It's like I can't remember where the stat it's from, but now 93 percent of Americans time is spent indoors. Their lifetime is now being spent, you know, only 7 percent in natural natural sunlight. So when folks I don't know how much you spent in natural sunlight, like naked.uren can can you never saw me going up and down santa monica yeah you didn't spend much time in the sun naked so i definitely did i don't know what you're doing in there in the morning there's so much going on it's like abracadabra is happening behind this door listen i'm energizing i'm getting my now i'm getting my red light i'm doing i'm doing a lot of things in

there selfishly i'm really interested in the benefits for the skin and the face and the under eyes and even the neck area. Can you speak a little bit on that? It's one of the benefit categories. In fact, a lot of people listening have probably been to a spa, an esthetician, and they've received some type of red light therapy. Most people in that space call it LED therapy. It's the same thing. It's using a device to illuminate bright red or near-infrared light, in some cases blue light, on your body to do some sort of benefit.

But skin health is one of the big benefit categories that's been proven time and time again in clinical study after clinical study after clinical study. And in essence, red light is absorbed in the superficial layers of your skin, whereas near infrared light has the ability to penetrate deeper. But because red light is predominantly absorbed in your skin, that's where you typically see so many skin-related benefits. So everything from enhanced collagen production to reduce fine lines and wrinkles to reduce age spots. It's interesting. We have a lot of customers that purchase our, especially males, it seems like, that purchase our devices because they've heard it increases testosterone, or maybe they're a fitness enthusiast that's interested in muscle recovery, and then they'll use it consistently. And then they're like,

man, everyone thinks I'm going to get Botox. I'm not a Botox guy, and everyone thinks I'm getting Botox because their skin is looking that much better. It's got a healthy glow. It's fuller, et cetera. And so skin health is kind of one of those like mainstay benefits that if you're using this kind of stuff consistently, you're going to reap those types of rewards. Is there any kind of risk with this? And I don't think – I mean it's not happened to me, but can you get a sunburn from something like this or no? No, no. I mean with UV light from the sun,

of course, you know, you have to be concerned about, you know, overexposure and burning. But yeah, no, with red and near infrared light, there's no burns at all. And what's the most effective and efficient way to use this? Like, is it, you know, 10 minutes a day every morning at 6 a.m.? Like, what's the best way to use it to streamline it into your daily routine? Because I feel like nowadays we're thrown like a hundred million things to do in our routine. You want to take that? Yeah, I would say that's why we push for full body is you can instead of like, for example, you're treating your face and you're seeing benefits for skin. And you're like, okay, well, I just treated, you know, my face for 10 minutes. Now I'm going to take a device and treat my knee for arthritis or whatnot. With full body, you can

treat the entire body in one go in 10 minutes. That's why we're the first company that's pushed for full body at home and why it's so important. So yeah, just 10 minutes a day, both sides of your body, we recommend treating. It's just as simple as that. And a lot of people can multitask. They'll do breath work, listen to the Skinny Confidential podcast while they're juving. There's lots of different things you can do to pair with it. Having it at home just adds that extra layer of convenience of, like you said, there's so many things going on. And that's the benefit is there's not a negative time of the day to do a treatment. It's just whenever you can fit it. I like it because I don't think, knowing myself, I'm a busy guy. I don't think I would go to a place, take off all my clothes and stand in front of a light for that. But like at the house, it's super easy where I'm getting,

before I get in the shower, after like whatever it is, it's just super simple to do. Like you said, you could do multiple things. Sometimes I just stand there and read. You do? Yeah. What do you do in there? I do a lot of things. Hold on. Tell me what you do. Sometimes I listen to like a podcast or music as I meditate. I'm reading. I'm just like kind of getting going in the morning. I mean, there's a lot of things you could do in there while you're in front of that light that I can think of. I mean, like what's going on in there? That's my man. Are you multitasking? What the fuck is going on in there? You've got a porno on there's woo next to you. Don't worry about it. All right. Well, I wanted to talk a little bit about blue light.

And would you like, what are these lights that we're sitting under right now? Is that blue light or is that just from the phone or? I call this DMV light, by the way, and I hate standing under DMV light. I think it's bad for you. And I think it's aging. Well, the majority of us now that are working in companies and doing like, you know, all over the country, you know, you're sitting in these offices all day. I mean, the majority of your day under these types of lights, is this blue light? Is this artificial?

How do you classify this? Blue light? It definitely has gotten a negative tone to it nowadays because we're just overexposed with so much from our devices, TVs, et cetera, the lighting, but it actually has a really good place. And that's why the sun actually delivers blue light. And a reason is we're talking is that's what literally gets you going in the morning is there's a melanoptin gene in your eye that's what literally gets you going in the morning is you're, there's a melanoption gene in your eye that's stimulated by that blue light. That's that calls cortisol. And you can, you can fuck yourself up if you're doing that at night, because you think you need to get in the morning.

So if you're on your phone, that's why it's sending a signal for you to be, you can't sleep. You got it. Is that why you're with him? He's so smart. He is really smart. No, I was definitely attracted to his brain first. It's all this juving in the morning. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, I'm wired up. The second thing was his big, big, big personality. Wait, wait, before you finish that thought though, DMV light, what, why DMV light? So I have this theory. So I'm like, what is the worst light that I've ever seen my face in? And it's when you take a photo at the DMV for your

license. Like no one looks good. I've never seen someone look good by including myself like every year. It's horrible. And they have these really harsh, cheap lights. And I whenever I have bad light, I call it DMV light. There's just nothing good about the DMV. The second worst light, by the way, is the Nordstrom's dressing room. Don't go in there. My business partner, who's super turbo, she said that if she exited her current company and had time to go do something else, she wants to take on the DMV and see if she can get it organized. And I was like, I don't think anyone could do it.

Oh, no. If you don't mind, I'm going to totally steal that DMV light. Like, I thought that's where you were going with that. But it's like, oh, that's good. It's good. It's the worst. But think about that, though. That stat Wes threw out earlier.

Like it's pretty well documented. Americans spend 93% of the time indoors under DMV lighting. It's not great. I mean, like certain types of bright white or bright blue light, to Wes's point, can our bodies respond very well to those, but not all the time, especially not once the sun sets. It's just very, very disruptive to those circadian rhythms that Wes mentioned earlier. But that's how most people, imagine, before starting Juve, that's what I did. I mean, we were in Minneapolis. I probably spent 95%, probably more than that, indoors because it's

dark most of the time, you commute to work, you're in because it's dark most of the time you commute to work, you're in the office, like all day, by the time you leave the sun sets. And so it's like, that's, is that really an ideal lifestyle to be living? No natural light under DMV light all the time. And then when you get home in the evenings, you're blasted by like the bright blue light from your screens. And so it's just so drastically different than like how our bodies have adapted over time to natural sunlight. And I think it's just, it's one of the big things that's so underappreciated when it comes to like health, overall health. People just don't think of light.

It's really only been about 200 year period where we've had this type of light. I mean, before, I mean, you could kind of count the invention of electricity, but it's like really it was a candlelight and, you know, the sun went down, you went to bed. There was not, you know, you didn't stay up till three, four in the morning sitting on your phone. Going to give you a little hot tip for one second, a little break in the episode. Butcher box. Okay.

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So I have a question about the Juve light. So it doesn't necessarily wake you up or put you to bed because you can do it any time of the day. Right. It's just it's just good for you in general, because like with the cell phone, you know, you're not supposed to lay in bed and look at it. That wakes you up. And with a salt rock lamp, which I have in our room, it puts me to bed because it's orange. So can you kind of speak on that? Yeah. And our products don't deliver any blue. So there's just two spectrum, two wavelengths in there. And it's in the mid 600s at 660 and 850. There contains no blue. So red does not stimulate that gene we're talking about in your eye for the melanopsin gene to affect cortisol. And in fact, there's actually a little bit of

research that show that can actually help induce melatonin production, red and near-infrared, because again, it's your body is taking that light, taking that energy and it's, and it's, it's, it knows what to do with it. And because it's not, it's natural. So it's natural so it's not gonna you know wake like in the morning you feel an energy boost but at night it can actually help you wind down uh similar to that the color you're talking about of like a salt rock lamp that's a lower calvin so it's not as stimulating i mean it goes by how most people feel relaxed by a fire it's the the light is very low calvin and there's a slight little flicker to it that actually can almost hypnotize you to get a little sleepy. And that's, I mean, that just goes to show you how so many people are just unaware of light. That's why I was saying it earlier. And to your point,

you kind of stole my line again. Sorry. If you look back through in the early 1900s, the average American slept over nine and a half hours. And you look at the implementation of the light bulb to TV, to color TV, to computers, et cetera. The average American now sleeps six and a half hours. So that's the average. I know there's people listening that are going on four hours and they think, oh, I'm doing great. Well, eventually that's going to to haunt you it will catch up I used to think that I was one of those guys, you know, I could be turbo like I need only need six hours And then I what's that book you guys probably know there's a book on sleep and I want the guy on the show It's like a dr. Matthew Walker. Yeah, that's him. Yeah, great. But what's the book called again Taylor?

Look up why we sleep. Yes, and I read that book and I said, holy shit. I'm doing this wrong Like it's not commendable that I'm sleeping five six hours It's not commendable that I'm sleeping five, six hours. It's not going to work. And then starting to crash and realizing now, like, I really do try to get that eight hours of sleep as much as I can. And I think a product like this helps because I was guilty of sitting up on the computer or the phone at night and then like trying to go to bed right away and just be like wired up. There's nothing bothers me more. And I'm just going to call you out on on live podcasting. Then when you wake up and look at your phone it makes me want to rip

my eyeballs out because it's it's like the first thing he does is he looks at his phone you've gotten better but i think it's so like bad for your cortisol when you're sleeping and the first thing you do is just stare at your phone see no i get it i mean listen i'm a work in progress there is something to the salt rock lamp theory, right? Because I like have a little nightlight that's a salt rock nightlight in my shower. And when I shower at night, I turn the salt rock nightlight on and I just shower with that light. And it's so calming. There's like nothing better.

That's all I have on in the house. Salt rock lamps at night. I don't turn anything else on. My girlfriend and her daughter, she doesn't understand yet. She hates it. She's like, why can't I turn on? She turns it on and I just give that look like, did you really just turn that light on? You know what I mean? And she thinks I'm a little crazy. Cause I'll even, I'll even go a step further to I'll wear the, the glasses, the blue eye blocking glasses,

just because when you read, when you read those books, you know, so much. And it's hard to say, I just, I can't do it anymore. You read that book and you get exposed. You almost wish you could take it back. Yeah. No, that book's a game changer. I think for anybody that thinks they're doing great by not sleeping eight hours, they should read that book and just see. I'm not trying to be a hero when it comes to sleep. I need at least eight and a half hours or I'm a bitch. And if I'm being greedy, I'd love nine. So what is the, what is the difference here between like a heat lamp? And this may be a stupid question, a heat lamp and red light therapy, if there is a difference? No, yeah, there's a big difference. So again, we're talking about those wavelengths of light.

Photobiomodulation would be the scientific term. There's just a very small band of wavelengths that can stimulate the cells and specifically the mitochondria in the cell. It's very specific. It's between in the 600s and mostly in the 800s. You can go in a little bit in the 900s up to a thousand. And so if you're on a heat lamp, that's going to be almost full spectrum.

It's giving off so many different wavelengths. And a lot of those wavelengths, they don't stimulate the cells. So really it's like a 3% of the wavelengths you could be getting theoretically, depending on how close you are. And you can't get too close to a heat bulb because you'll burn yourself.

So it's just not a very accurate way. There is some red and near infrared in there, but it's just so sporadic. It's all the way from, I believe, like one to all the way into the, you know, in 5000. It's very broad. OK, so what if Susie from Alabama is listening and she already has her morning routine and she works nine to five and this sounds overwhelming to her. Where can she start on a small scale? Like instead of giving her the whole shebang, what's like, like what's just the tip? The free tip is just like Susie, try to just get a little bit more natural light. That's like, that's free medicine, right? It's like one of the physicians that we collaborate with a lot is Dr. Arasapaya. It's a term he likes to refer to it as like natural light's free medicine, right? If you have a lifestyle, like this just doesn't support getting a lot of

natural light, or you live in an area like Minnesota that doesn't really have a lot of, you know, the sun's not out that often, pick up a light therapy device. You don't have to go big right away. We recommend full body light therapy, you know, and I don't want to get into a product pitch, but one of our core like thesis as a company is that full body light therapy is optimal, which is why we designed our devices to be modular. So kind of like Lego blocks, you can start with a smaller one. Yeah. And then if you like it and you're seeing the benefits, you can add another one and connect them together and they connect together physically and electronically. So you can kind of go big over time, but it's really easy. I mean, just 10 minutes a day, you know, get in front of it. The one I have, you guys, is the one, and Michael has the full body, but the one I have

is the little pocket one. It's small, right? Well, they have ones that you could use at the desk. And what I do is I just, in the morning when I'm like doing the morning pages or writing down what I have to do, I just turn it on and put it on the table and it's tiny. It's probably like an inch long or a foot long. I love it. It's cute too. It's white. It's chic. It's probably like an inch long or a foot long. I love it. It's cute too.

It's white. It's chic. It's understated. When I started diving into this, I was showing my office and they're like, what the hell are you building? Like, what is this thing? And then I was telling my guy, it helps with skin. And then I said, it helps with weight loss.

And when I said weight loss, like a lot of people got really excited. Can you dive into kind of the science and the reasoning, like how this can help with weight loss? It's super interesting. And we don't really touch on this too often because there's so many other dynamics at play when it comes to like weight loss. Like what are they, what's someone eating? You know, what kind of, what kind of like. You can't just eat like in and out every day and then go in and like do light therapy and be fine. Probably not. But there is some like really interesting, like really well-structured studies that showcase red light specifically that it

almost helps shrink fat cells. And what's, what's really cool is if you look at like the science at a deeper level, the cells in adipose tissue, fat tissue, they actually become more porous. And so that's how they're actually shrinking. That's the kind of effect that red light has on that cell type, which leads to some really interesting kind of, I would call it more body contouring because that's kind of what's happening. But there's like some really, really good studies that showcase it. And that's kind of the cool thing about like doing this in home. You don't have to go to like a commercial facility four or five times a week. You can do it in the comfort of your own home. So when I was in London, I got really depressed and it was during the winter time and it would

get dark at like three o'clock. And I told Michael how depressed I was. I'm like, really, I don't get depressed easily, but for something about it was making me depressed. And I figured out that it was 100 percent seasonal depression because when I finally went to a different place and it was lighter, longer, I felt better. Is seasonal depressions real, right? It's a real thing. It's real to me. I didn't know that until I moved to LA. I mean, I was born and raised in Iowa. I lived in Minnesota then. And then I moved here. And it's just normal that the sun disappears for three months out of the year. It's just gone, overcast. It's literally gone. And you don't think much of it. You grew up in it. You just

got used to it. But once I moved here, and there'd be sunshine every day and then there's a random day where it's just cloudy and you're just like, this is awful. Something is off. And that's when I was like, oh, this is what people experience that. So, yeah, absolutely. It's completely real. And we have actually we have a member from our team. He went to the University of Michigan.

And when he was there, a lot of people from California would go to go to Michigan, either sports, scholarship, you name it. And they all had like bright, some sort of bright light that they would have in the room. And they would tell him it's because of like it's a happy lamp. So can red light therapy help with seasonal depression as well? Or does it have to be a happy lamp? Yeah, Scott can speak to that. We talk.

I can't remember as an individual. Yeah. Dr. Mark. So there's definitely evidence that suggests like these these happy lamps, these bright white lights do help with seasonal affective disorder. There's no doubt about that. There's a couple of things that I'd call out. One is that there's more and more evidence that suggests red and near infrared light can induce the same type of benefits. And you get all of the ancillary benefits that we've already talked about by using red and near infrared light, you know, better sleep, better skin, et cetera. And it can actually help with seasonal affective disorder as well. The evidence is still

pretty early, but I think what's interesting is Dr. Mark Sean, who's at UCLA, he treats a lot of patients that suffer from some sort of depressive disorder. What's interesting is he's incorporated, in conjunction with other therapies, he's incorporated red and near-infrared light into their routine and seen dramatic results, even with people that are typically non-responsive to like some of the more traditional types of like modalities that you'd use. And so I think that's really important is like, like he's showcasing that these wavelengths of light can actually help speed up like sort of that recovery or help people overcome mild depressive issues even faster. That's wild. I remember when we, when we moved, we went from one place to another and

there was like a salt rock lamp room where you go in and you stare at a salt rock nightlight. It's like a nightlight. I immediately felt better. So I mean, I'm a big believer in light therapy. What do you guys think the future is for light therapy? Like where are we headed? Is everyone going to have a machine in their house? What do you see? Is there going to be places that open up with light therapy everywhere? Oh, boy. The future is bright. And it might have a glow of red to it. Now, I believe we're in a ton of wellness centers that are people are going to do cryo.

They're going to get IV drips. They're now doing red and near infrared light therapy. We're in, I think, over hundred locations now across the country where someone could go do a treatment. It's paired with how I think recovery in general is shifting into more lifestyle where people are bringing these things that you used to go to a wellness center and they're shifting into your routine. So a good-

It's a time saver. People don't want to have to go to these places. I mean, they're great and you can go to these wellness centers, but it's, it's just another, it's like the same thing. Like what does Uber postmates, Airbnb, they all sell you time. Like this is another thing you're selling people back their time. Cause I don't have the time to run to all these different centers, but if I could do it at home 10 minutes a day, that's very easy to incorporate into my day-to-day life. You bet. And then just becoming more self-aware. I mean, we're talking about, you know, sad lamps that's still not looked at as very like serious there. There's no really definitive like, yes, no, but I mean, it's so important. I mean,

there, I believe the circadian biologist was just awarded like the Nobel prize in like 2017. So this is very new stuff, light and how it affects us. And it's just convenient now that recovery lifestyle mixed into people's lives. It's all blending into one, and we're kind of right in there with it. And it's really cool to be a part of that. I also think inflammation is like such a thing that no one talks about. I feel like as Americans, especially, we're all inflamed. I feel inflamed all the time. And I know that this helps with inflammation too, right? Yeah, there's no doubt. With skin, that's another like really, really big benefit category

that's supported by a ton of science. In fact, a lot of the new research that's showcasing some interesting mechanisms with these wavelengths of light is showing that it actually enhances your immune response, your immune system. In fact, to get a little bit more geeky, there's actually a specific cytokine called TGF1 beta that's stimulated, which is why our immune systems basically get stronger in the presence of these wavelengths of1 beta that's stimulated, which is why our immune systems basically get stronger in the presence of these wavelengths of light. It's really cool. Even with like people that like cancer patients, oncology patients, what's really fascinating is that researchers are showing that a healthy cell responds in a very healthy way to these wavelengths of light.

So if you take a tumor cell, like a cancer cell, you'd think, okay, wait a second, it's going to- You don't want to inflame it. Yeah. Yeah. And you definitely don't want it to grow. You don't want to inflame it. Yeah. And you definitely don't want it to grow. You don't want it to produce more energy. But in the presence of these wavelengths of light, the cancer cells are dying. You get autophagy and apoptosis. So it's like, man, this is so killer.

Again, and I'll throw another pun, so killer. Because it puts your cells in action to fight things that are not good in your body. Exactly. But healthy cells, they function in a much more efficient fashion. So it's, it's really cool. And I guess to circle back around to the question of like, where's this going? What I hope to see is that if I just served like a plate of food right here, and you're like, Michael, you were like, well, Scott, what are we eating here? Like high proteins, a lot of carbs, like a lot of fats. What, what, what is this? And I'd be like, ah, just eat it.

You'd be like, well, no, tell me what's in it. Like how much protein am I getting? How many carbohydrates am I getting? You probably, you know, if you had a label, you'd look at the macronutrient count. If you were serious about your health, right? I think the same thing, like one of our goals is to raise that much more awareness about light and overall health is that people begin to like, think about it in those contexts, in that context. Like, well, how much blue light did I get today? How much red and near infrared light did I get today? You know, and everyone understands that, that idea for food, but like, let's apply some of those same concepts to light because it's that important. And most people just don't even think of it. We're getting ready to do this interview. We're saying like the

high majority of listeners is women. I already, I always joke that I got like three or four men out there. I'm getting a couple more each week goes on. I'm getting just slowly grabbing a few, but I think, you know, there's a lot of women and men that write in talking about testosterone and how to boost testosterone. I think it's a common, I mean, when you have a platform like this, it's a common topic of conversation, people just, especially men. And I think a lot of the reason why some men's testosterone is dropping is because we're not doing the things that we used to do as men. We're not out in the sunlight. We're not working as hard as we can. We're not working out as much. And there's too much soy in products.

There's a lot of things that are killing men's testosterone levels. And I think as a man, you have to work to keep it up and keep it active. It's just something you got to do. Can we talk about potentially some of the benefits of testosterone levels for a product like this? Yeah, I think it'd be a great time to call out a clinical study that we had just participated in with Bristol Cone Medical in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We tested male and females hormonal responses for 12 weeks of a daily treatment. And we saw pretty compelling results. The control group stayed on a standard American diet and just added in red light. The average testosterone, free testosterone increased about 35 to 45% in 12 weeks. This is really cool. The experimental

group went from a standard American diet to keto and they added in red light for 12 weeks. The average free testosterone, it tripled for those individuals. So yeah. And I mean, who'd have thought that you eat a high amount of cholesterol you know you're getting healthy dosages of light that can help convert that cholesterol and you can create you know stimulate dhea production which then is the precursor to all your hormones and then bada bing bada boom you know you just see your your health your levels increase it makes sense if you just think about how we've evolved. I mean, we were outdoors doing a bunch of shit, being men, growing our testosterone.

Oh, God, spare me. Well, I mean, listen, now you're just clicking away on this keyboard. Why don't you go hunt for food and I'll just churn butter. No, but it's important because, you know, like as you get older, testosterone levels are extremely important both to keep you fit, to keep you sexually active.

Like there's a million reasons why you need to keep the levels up and especially if you get in a relationship like you know when a lot of people know this but when you get in a relationship you move with a woman like you both the woman her testosterone level rises and the male's estrogen level rises so it's like to try to match each other and so like i think it's important to not get out of balance and to talk about these things because next thing you know you're just like sitting on the couch and you you know no testosterone You're just like not doing shit with yourself. And I think it's, you know, like maybe,

maybe I want to get some pushback for this, but I think it's important for men to get out there and recognize this. And also their partners to encourage them. I mean, I think it's well said. You think about some of the easy ways you can raise your testosterone. One of them is going to the gym

and actually doing physical activity. So, you know, you could, you could accompany that with, hey, we used to be outside and build shit. You know what I mean? There's no different. Go to the gym, pick up heavy stuff, do take an ice cold shower. That's been shown to boost your testosterone. Just just that alone, you know, get those leg lifts in. So if someone is going to go do the juve light, how can they expect to feel before, during and after when you're done? Is there like this surge of energy? How can they feel? feel before, during and after? When you're done, is there

like this surge of energy? How can they feel? It's a good question. It can be very individual based. Some people will like customers have sent us immediate emails and said, oh, my God, I have it. I feel incredible. We've had people at like conferences do a treatment, you know, leave the booth and then come back and say, hey, my vision hasn't been this clear in the last like five, six years. You know what I mean? So it's very individual based. And some people, they don't even see the change of like their skin because they see themselves every day. And we've had again, we've had customers say, hey, I didn't think this was doing anything. And I went to like a family reunion and everyone was like, what are you doing to your skin? You look like you just have a glow

to yourself, you know? So it's very, to answer your question, Lauren, it's very individual based. And one last note before we move on from that study, we actually tested females in that as well. And we saw incredible results for progesterone to estradiol ratios. So we saw progesterone increase by an average of 40% in the control group and estradiol decrease. And you want to see those hormones separated from each other. So, I mean, that's something that hasn't been talked to to date is how red and near-infrared has affected female hormones. So that was one of the things that we saw in that study that blew us away. Yeah. I mean, we've briefly been talking about,

I mean, we've done a few episodes on this about how much our hormones actually impact our lives. If if you're if they're out of whack like how detrimental that can be to the human body the human psyche too no doubt well out of curiosity have you guys touched on progesterone at all no let's talk about it before this study i didn't realize it was like nearly every guy is familiar with the concept of testosterone i want more testosterone like that's a good thing you know go kill something but like i didn't realize it was that as like progesterone is the equivalent in females and that as females age progesterone declines

because of a number of things and like the goal of a female should really just like a dude wants to keep up like their their testosterone levels fairly high an active female that's that's interested in her health should wants to keep her progesterone levels high as well. And then to Wes's point, keep those estradiol ratios, which is kind of the equivalent of too much estrogen in males. Like those should be imbalanced. And it was really, really cool to see that in females.

Like they saw maybe not as dramatic as like a 300% increase in testosterone, but I think it was at least in the control group, I'd have to pull out the data, but like a 40 to 60% increase in progesterone rate in females. So like, it's really, it's just really cool to see that like across the board, you know, whether you're, you know, whether you're the one of three dudes listening to this or, you know, there might be six now, six, you know, after this episode, there might be a few more that are interested in the red light for testosterone.

I think it's, Lauren didn't do me any favors with that bright pink cover there. I didn't have a lot of say there. It's hard. I'm like, listen, man, I got some really good guys come on this show and talk about a lot of cool shit. I'm like, what's the cover on that show? I'm like, that's interesting. Listen, guys, get your testosterone up and listen to a pink-covered show. There was some estrogen going on when this—

Yeah, there was a lot. You walked up and down this office. There's a lot of estrogen in here. I've got to be careful not to boost people's testosterone too much in this office. It could be a HR liability for me. Taylor is not allowed to stand under a juve light. I like to keep his estrogen levels low. That guy's a walking liability. Let me get you some soy milk. So then let me ask you, Lauren, if, if, uh, if Michael's kind of acting out, you're like, okay, I'm taking your juve light away. You're just too hyper. Well, that thing is so

I got that locked into my office now. It's like built in and so she can't remove it now. I don't like to go in his masturbation man cave. I'm okay with that, whatever the fuck it is. I just shut the door. I don't want to look at it. You've got so much going on. It looks like... You're not supposed

to look at it. It's just... Ichabod Crane's library in there. I mean, it Crane's library in there. I mean, it's a lot happening in there. What was your first reaction when he had it? Like, Michael, did you like roll your eyes? Like, what are you doing? Nothing surprises me with him. Like, he's always got something going on.

I mean, I hear music coming out with the juve light. There's red going everywhere. But in his defense, I do shit all the time. That's like absurd. So at first she's like, what the hell is this thing? And it was like so bright and it was lit up the whole... Yeah, but then I hear

the wellness and health benefits. And then she's like, ah, okay, I get it. And now she's fully on board. Yeah. So I'm going to propose an idea. So this could be a thing on the Skinny Confidential.

Like what is Michael doing while he's juving? Yeah. And it could be like, you know... Super creepy. Yeah, we could do like a giveaway once a month or something like that

for anyone who kind of like, you know, comes up with the, you know, the latest. I'm going to go in and film you and just watch what you're doing. Instagram may take that one down. They might not like what they see. Yeah, I mean, what's going on in there? Listen, I'm, my levels, I'm getting everything in line. As an entrepreneur, what's a book, a podcast, or a resource that you can recommend to our audience that's brought you a lot of value? Me personally, Why We Sleep, Dr. Matthew Walker.

And if you don't want to read, listen to the podcast he did with Joe Rogan. It's phenomenal. Lauren, I want you to reach out to him and get him on the show. I tweeted him. Yeah, we can get him on. He was sleeping. Dr. Walker, when you hear this, get on the show. For me, from a business context,

podcast that I have enjoyed, gosh, close to 10 years now. He's a little bit of an OG is Mixergy. Andrew Warner with Mixergy. I've actually never heard that one. Really good. Like, he's- Okay, let's check it out. Yes, what if you're in the startup scene?

Like, he's really good. Book, Rand Fishkin, the founder of Moz, like the SEO company. He's no longer there, but his latest book called Lost and Founder, really good. Just because he's, I mean, he's really, really like transparent and genuine about like everything he did right, everything he did wrong, you know, and I don't know, I've always appreciated his,

his take on things. So that's a good, that's a good book. Amazing. Guys, I love what you're doing. I think you're disrupting the industry. It's super innovative. Where can everyone find you? So if you want to find us, you can go to juve.com, J-O-O-V-V.com. And you can check out a couple places there. One, I'd recommend going to the Learn page. We have tons of good resources for you. Articles if you want to read about skin, testosterone, hormones, etc. And then also go to the Reviews page and just see what people are saying.

These reviews, right as people enter them, they go right on the site. So they're completely unedited unless there's something completely crazy on there. But yeah, just read about what people are saying. Go go investigate it yourself. We have also have a database you can click and you can look at clinical studies. So if you have an issue or you have something you wanted to heal, see if it's supported with any any science. That's what we're built off of is is clinical research. An Instagram handle? At Juve Social. Love it. And I have the mini, you guys, if you want. I think I'm going to do like a post breakdown on the one I have because it's really cute and I think you'll like it. Thank you guys so much. And I use the quad, right? I use the quad. That's the four. Yep. Yeah. Well, you use something. That's the big dog. Thank you guys so

much for taking the time to come on. Yeah, it was great. Thanks for having us. Hope you guys love that episode. I think it's a great beauty and health hack. So we are giving away a Juve mini with a stand. It's so major. It's something you can do every single morning for 10 minutes.

Super easy and efficient. All you have to do is follow at Juve Social. That's J-O-O-V-V-S-O-C-I-A-L on Instagram. And then tell me on my latest Instagram, your favorite part of this podcast. What did you learn? Did you love it? With that, I'm off to check the tracking on my pregnancy suit because you know, I can't let that pass me by. And for those of you that just can't wait and need to jump into the Juve now and try it out, go to juve.com. That's J-O-O-V-E dot com slash skinny and use code skinny to receive a free gift. Guys, if you haven't heard enough from this episode, I don't know what else to tell you.

60 day free trial financing with 0% interest. If you would like to use that, guys, juve.com slash skinny. We love this fucking thing and we know you will too enjoy this episode was brought to you by thrive market our favorite one-stop shop for all things grocery household supplies pet food beauty supplements they've got it all and even wine now wine thrive wine guys to try thrive go to thrive market.com slash skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle again that's thrive market.com slash skinny to find a membership that fits your lifestyle. Again, that's thrivemarket.com slash skinny

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