The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Coco Mocoe On How To Stand Out, Build Credibility, Market Yourself, & Anticipate What's Coming

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

#640: Today we're sitting down with Coco Mocoe, a digital trend forecaster and marketing specialist with a background in entertainment. Coco has a unique talent for predicting the rise of stars and trends across the internet. Today, she joins us to delve into the world of trends. We explore the impact that fame has on the average person, uncover strategies for growing and maintaining a following, and receive valuable tips on anticipating trends and building credibility in any niche. Lastly, we discuss the essential elements of growth and how to succeed as a creator.   To connect with Coco Mocoe click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Our products are now available at Free People! Click HERE to start shopping. This episode is brought to you by AG1 If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Go to drinkAG1.com/SKINNY to get a free 1-year supply of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase.   This episode is brought to you by Branch Basics The Branch Basics Premium Starter Kit will provide you with everything you need to replace all of your toxic cleaning products in your home. It’s really a no-brainer. Go to branchbasics.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off their starter kit and free shipping. This episode is brought to you by ProLon Nourish your body without the hunger by ordering the ProLon Fasting Shake today. Go to ProLonLife.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your order. This episode is brought to you by Beis Beis has thought of everything you could ever want in a piece of luggage...360 degree gliding wheels, a cushioned handle, built-in weight indicator, washable bags for your dirty clothes, and all the interior pockets you need to keep organized. Go to beistravel.com/skinny for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Canopy Canopy just released a new filtered shower head that greatly reduces contaminants and odor in your water, leaving you with glowing hair and skin. Visit getcanopy.co and use code SKINNY for an additional 10% off your purchase. Produced by Dear Media  

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. It's all on Free People. I am so excited to be on their site. I've been a Free People lover since I feel like I was in high school. So this is a major moment for everyone to be able to shop seamlessly on their site. Go to freepeople.com and search The Skinny Confidential to shop. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the skinny confidential, him and her. I remember thinking like this is going to ruin my career. Like if I have TikTok on my resume, like no one's going to take me

seriously. But I was like, I need the job. I'm just going to try it. And then one of Charlie's videos like were coming up on my feed. So I emailed her and I remember she was like, hi, like I think my dad's coming to LA for business. Like I'm going to see if I can come with him. There was one video where it was Charlie and Chase Hudson. And I think right now it's at like 40 million views on YouTube, like four zero, not 14. And that was the video that like changed the trajectory of my career, just went so viral. And I was kind of the person behind the scenes

that produced it. And then when I applied to Buzzfeed for an internship, I didn't get it, but I had that video listed on my resume and they reached out a month later and were like, Oh, we're trying to figure out TikTok. Like, well, you just come full time. So I got an even better job than the one I had that video listed on my resume and they reached out a month later and were like, oh, we're trying to figure out TikTok. Like, will you just come full time? So I got an even better job than the one I had applied for. Today, we're sitting down with the Coco Moco. You've seen her all over TikTok. She's a digital trend forecaster and marketing specialist, and she has a background in entertainment. She used to work for BuzzFeed,

and on this episode, we're really diving into it all. She tells you how to create your own future, how you can kickstart your career from scratch, the next 10 years of trends, how to grow on TikTok, creating longevity as a creator, up-and-coming marketing trends, and how fame has evolved in the last five years. We do a deep dive on fame and fame in 2024. This episode goes all over the place, but there's a lot of golden nuggets in it. On that note, let's welcome Coco Moco to the Him and Her Show. This is the skinnyny Confidential, him and her. You have had a crazy career and I feel like we talked off air. I do feel like you've blown up, but it sounds like there was a lot of bricks that you laid to get here. And I think it's amazing that you used to listen to us at

San Diego State and now you're here. I feel like that makes people feel like they can sort of create their own future. Yeah, and like I know for me Especially just in the context of college I was always so sad that I wasn't like in a sorority or things like that and I was like I'm not gonna have any connections to get into marketing and stuff like that and then I mean, I think part of it was luck when I did get into it, but When I got my marketing degree, I was like, I will do marketing for a lawnmower company. Like, I don't care.

Like, whatever I can do. And I saw Craigslist ad and it was like, we need someone to do marketing at this company in Santa Monica, but we can't tell you like what it is. And so I applied and then it ended up being Famous Birthdays, which is so funny. It's like a hot pink website for like 12 year olds. And so I went in and at the time they were interviewing a lot of like musically and YouTubers and stuff. So that was kind of how I got my start. And that was where like the whole entertainment side of it came in. Does all that site does is just pull known people's birthdays? Yeah. It's honestly so fascinating. I always sing their praises

because I think they're so interesting. Basically, it's a website about famous people's birthdays. But when the guy who made it, Evan Britton, he thought it was going to be people searching Beyonce and Lady Gaga. And he thought that there was typos because people were searching Jacob Sartorius and Lauren Gray. And he's like, who are these people? And then he realized that no one was covering like these influencers. So he started reaching out and then they would send them their birthday, some info. And then he would invite them into the LA office and interview them because no one else was interviewing them at the time. Like it just mainstream media wasn't really looking at influencers that way. And so he just built this devoted following of like Gen Z when they were like in fifth and sixth grade. Yeah. I mean, it's just so fascinating.

They can always tell when someone's going to get famous because they get like the data of like searches and stuff. Oh, that's interesting. Oh my God. That's crazy. They reached out to me like my fourth year in my career to put me on their site. So do you think that they use the data of people searching to reach out to me? Yeah. So if they reach out to you, it's because your name was spiking in searches and they like wanted to get you on the site. So then they would have a landing page. Carson, go see if I'm on there. Let's actually see if Michael's on there. Carson, tell us if Michael's on there. Oh my God, it's going to not be good for me if I'm not on there. I think it's going to be so, I hope he's not on there. I hope it's just there. Carson, tell us if Michael's on there. Oh my God, it's going to not be good for me if I'm not on there at this point. I think it's going to be so... I hope he's not on there. I hope it's just me.

I don't think I've talked to anybody over there. Nope, I don't. But I guess they could pull it anyways. Yeah, sometimes if there's someone super growing and they really want a landing page, they'll kind of guess it. And they'll go on people's Instagram and see when they posted a birthday

thing and around what day that was. So yeah, there's different ways that they'll like kind of guess. Carson, what's the verdict? I'm on there. He's on there? I'm relevant. I'm relevant. Yeah, that means people are searching. Oh my God, we cannot stroke the ego. Do not even stroke the ego. I hope it says he's 87 years old and he's about to die. But you know, we were talking about right before and I thought it was an interesting topic to bring up

as we're discussing fame in general. And you were saying that like, you just, what, you watched or you read the Britney book? Obviously. Yeah. So I'd been, I mean, I like, who hadn't been following her story? But I ordered the book on Amazon.

It arrives when I get home from my flight. But I feel like she's such a good example, I guess, where I kind of got my rise on TikTok is I would tell people like how to get famous or like what I thought was going to be trendy. But I also realized that there was this double-edged sword of like, I felt like I also had to warn people that I feel like fame is like one of the most traumatic things

that can happen to someone. And also for some people, sometimes the most dangerous thing that can happen to someone. And I think Britney is such an example of that. Like she's even someone that like, I don't even make many marketing videos about because I'm like, I feel like she almost doesn't even want the attention in a way. Like, I don't think it's ever intentional or strategic with her. I think she just was so unique. And like, for whatever reason, everyone like became obsessed with her. And I think it was weaponized in some ways, too. I just finished her book. It's really a tough read because she is a victim. Like when you're reading it and you read what she went through, it is an unusual life with a lot of abuse. There's cult-like behavior happening. Her father, who was a

horrible alcoholic when she was a little girl and was horrible to her, her entire childhood grew up and essentially took control of her money, took control of when she went to the bathroom, put video cameras in the room when she was with men. He recorded her phone calls. He paid himself $6 million a year out of her money and then would distribute her money to other people. He would have bodyguards for himself that he paid for. He was controlling every minute of her life. She wasn't allowed to have any alcohol. He put her in a mental institution and rehab. I mean, I could go on and on. And the craziest thing is she could do nothing about it because she was in this conservatorship. Is that how you say it?

Yeah. Conservatorship. Conservatorship. And she literally could do nothing like there was nothing in the book she i honestly don't know what advice i would give her she's helpless in the whole well she's like she's like the most extreme example but i think what's interesting on like on this topic we get to meet so many i guess different walks of fame doing this show really you see people that are like quote quote unquote, the A-list down, people that are like just kind of breaking through. And what we've talked about here is

I think there's a point in fame where if you want to peel it back, you no longer have the possibility to do so. Like I like, I consider Lauren and I known entities, but not quote unquote famous. Like we can walk down streets without people

some people know but you know and I think that is kind of like a healthy space to be in at least for us but we've also met

people where they become so famous that they're at the point where even if they wanted to peel a bag like I don't want this anymore

it's almost it's too late it's too far I think that's when people sometimes at least that we've met, re-examine their relationship with it because they're like, shit, now you're famous. You can't do anything about it. Yeah. My friend Nikki said it perfectly. He was like, celebrities almost

become so superhuman that they become subhuman. People no longer see them as human and that in a way kind of hurts them. And I definitely believe, not for everyone, but it's not my own original thought. I've just heard it before, but that household name type of fame can stunt people at the age that they become famous. And it really makes you empathize with a lot of people that like, it's someone like Michael Jackson. He had the mannerisms of someone who was maybe eight or nine. And like, that was the age that he became super famous. And like Britney Spears in some way, I think sometimes seems like maybe 16 or like seems very young. And it's like, I feel like part of that

is they'll never have another normal interaction ever again. Like they can never just meet a stranger and like learn about themselves through that person. Or like everyone always sees them as the person that they were when they got famous. And so they never really get to grow unless they have a good system around them. Yeah. I think the problem is people don't stop to ask, do you really want to be famous or do you want the things that you perceive to come with fame? Whether that's money or access or whatever. And I think in a perfect world, you would have all the stuff without that kind of notoriety.

Because to your point, I think my personal hell would be to be stuck in a restaurant to the point where you can't walk through and people are just staring at you. Well, there was that video and she talks about it in her book too of when Britney Spears is getting out of an Uber

and you would die. She is pregnant and she's holding her 18- old in her hands. And the paparazzi is not letting her go through. They're pushing her. And she is so defeated that she just goes into a restaurant and starts crying. And she's this pregnant woman. She's not wearing makeup, which it's just like, leave her alone. Like she's just, she just wants to be left alone. And her baby's in her arms and she's just sitting there just crying and she can't leave the restaurant because there's so many people outside. Like it was just, it was very, very suffocating. I'm curious to know, because you are so on the

pulse of trends, how you think people who have gained a huge TikTok following quickly, what's going to happen to them in five years, in 10 years, in 20 years? Yeah, I mean, it's so interesting. I feel like the most recent example would be someone like Alex Earl. I think that we're also at a point where like fame is so fragmented now, like it's not as likely to have so many different, like back then there were maybe five people that got famous a year, if even. Now, there's like 30 to 100 people.

I mean, there could be someone with a TikTok following of 10 million, and I meet them at an event, and I'm like, I've never seen that before. So I think that it's not going to be as extreme because of how many people are famous. I think specifically Gen Alpha, they're like the middle schoolers. They're the ones under Gen Z. I feel like they, of course, are obsessed with influencers, but they almost are going to see it as like not as interesting as maybe Gen Z and millennials saw influencers because I think to them it's going to be such a common job. And of course, it's still unique and there's a lot of luck and prestige that comes with it. But I think that it's just going to be so many people are famous that it's not as catastrophic when it does happen to someone. Isn't it interesting that Andy Warhol said that in the future, everyone's going to have their 15 minutes of fame? Yeah. I think about that every day, like the Roman Empire thing on TikTok their 15 minutes of fame yeah i think about that

every day like the roman empire thing on tiktok that's my roman empire think about that quote every single day don't try to talk about the roman empire don't try to get don't try to get on trend i'm not trying to get on trend but how often do you think about it no no i mean how often how often okay how honestly if i'm not if i'm not trying to even follow the trend yeah honestly like maybe once every two months. And it's because, well, I'm interested in those books. Like I read a lot of history. And so I, you know, and also because it was like the greatest empire.

Well, my Roman empire is Andy Warhol. You know, you're so right because doing what I do now at Dear Media, not to knock anyone, but sometimes talent would have come through this door and they'll be huge. They're huge names in their own niche of fame on the internet. And I'll have to do research and be like, who is that? And it's most likely because maybe I'm not the target. But to your point, back in the day, there was only a select few people that broke through. This happened with musicians too. If you were a band, only a few bands broke through. Now everybody, they could

be the biggest band in the world. You have no idea who they are. And I think there's just because there's so many fragmented audiences online and there's so many more people online that accumulating an audience of a few million people is extremely hard and it's sizable. But there's a billion people online. Right. Yeah. I'm more interested in people that are able to like hold on to it because I feel like going viral isn't that interesting anymore.

But people that can like stay in the public conscience for like a long period of time. Like to me, that's so fascinating. I think very difficult to do. The people I feel the worst for, because to your point, I mean, not to age ourselves, but Lauren and I have been doing this for a while and we've seen a lot of kind of people come and go and some, you know, come quicker and go faster than others. And I always find it to be a shame when you see somebody garnish a ton of attention online early and they grow really fast. And then the sharks swarm and you get all these different managers and agents and people. And they're like the hot thing of the moment. And then a year later, they're kind of just like spit

out and washed out. And unfortunately, I think that happens because, and you can see how it happens. They think this never-ending growth is never going to stop, but you have to figure out how to have some longevity in whatever space you're going into. Yeah. You have to always reinvent yourself. And to the point about managers, I felt like even at Famous Birthdays, I saw that so much where it sounds so funny. Famous Birthdays, you think is this kiddie site. But like we would have all of these TikTokers come in and YouTubers that were getting famous and maybe only 10% of them would have longevity, like the Charli D'Amelio's and the Addison Rae's. And there were so many of them

that had just like the shadiest managers. And it was worse when they were like young, like when they were like 15. And not that anything like bad was going on. It was just like, they didn't have like the tools to like know how to intuitively tell if it was like a bad manager or not. And that's why I always say to, I'm like, I feel like people should get famous after they're like frontal cortex is like finished developing. Like people that get famous when

they're like 25 or older, I think are able to sustain it more because they're just like more aware. Yeah. 100% agree with you. If you had tried to get me famous at 12, I like would have been represented by John Robert Powers. Like you just don't know what you don't know. Yeah. Well, and I think like, listen,

there's a lot of phenomenal agents and managers, but I think for every good one, there's 10 bad ones. And I don't mean to knock on it, but they're just people that maybe they're in that space. They're a little predatory. They don't have talents, best interests at heart for long-term decision-making. They put them in deals that are going to bring short-term dollars, but aren't going to build their brand long-term.

And again, it's like, I think if I was speaking to any young person that finds success in this space, like you really have to do your homework and find vetted talent and management agencies and companies because there are some really good ones out there, but there's some people that get in the space. Like I meet people and I'm like, how the hell are you like, like, I've never heard of your company. What are you doing? But they have this really big talent for that moment in time. And you're kind of just like, how did this person get in bed with this person? Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, the worst is like when you can tell they just hired like their friends who like maybe don't

have the best intentions. Like I'm like, if someone would come in for an interview, I'm like, like, why do you have like 30 people on payroll? Like, and they're all like, are they really doing anything? Are they just like here? Like, like I felt like the worst was like when they had like a lot of their friends around them that they were paying. And I felt like that was always where it got like super dicey. It's kind of like an athlete. I want to talk about how you became a digital trend forecaster and a marketing specialist, but let's go way back to when you were a little girl. Have you always been someone that was curious about what was up and coming? Like how does one even fall into this? Yeah. So I always, I always reference also just like my astrology. I'm a Gemini moon,

Aquarius sun. I'm a Gemini and my daughter's an Aquarius. That's the best mix. Yeah. See, I love Gemini. Yeah. But how do you be both? Or am I confused now? I don't know. I don't get it. So yeah, there's like different parts to your chart. But yeah, so Gemini involves technology. Aquarius involves the future. So for me, when I was super young, I remember when I was in middle school, that's when MySpace came around. And I was sickly obsessed with it. I remember I'd be at school, and I would speedwalk home so that I could figure out how to go on Google and make glitter fall from the top of the page. you, as if anyone was going on my profile, they weren't. But to me, I thought that like millions of eyes were on my,

my space profile. And so I was just so obsessed with the internet and like why certain people would get attention. But of course I was like young, I didn't understand exactly where that was coming from. And then in high school, it was the tumblers that I was obsessed with. And then college, I thought I was going to be a journalist. I even studied or I read the books of like Diane Sawyer, Christine Armapour, all these journalists. And then I couldn't pass this grammar, spelling and punctuation test. Like I took it multiple times and I could not pass it. And so I got kicked out of the journalism school and I went to a counselor and they were like, well, something similar as marketing, like you could try marketing. And I cannot imagine

myself as a journalist now. I think journalism is so hard. So then that was how I got into marketing. And I mean, I had always been just obsessed with like why people's attention goes to certain areas and with trends specifically. I think when I first started blowing up, it was because I was talking about makeup and fashion trends. But I think I was put into this bucket of a trend forecaster in terms of fashion and clothing. But that's not really what I am. I think I'm more of a digital forecaster. And I remember even some verified, I think she's a freelance writer for some big publications. And I was so devastated because she made a video and was like, stop tagging me in that girl's videos. She has no credentials. She's never written for a fashion

magazine. She doesn't know what she's talking about. And I remember being so sad because I was like, we're talking about like smudged mascara and like glitter eyeliner. Like I don't want to discourage anyone who maybe like doesn't have access to a Vogue internship to like start posting videos and come in our lane. But anyway, so I got put in the fashion bucket when I started blowing up like last year, but I've always been a digital forecaster. I was at Famous Birthdays and then I went to BuzzFeed for three and a half years. And my job was to really just like go into meetings and tell them like what I thought was coming, how they can make videos with certain brands

regarding different trends. And how are you figuring most of that out? Just spending time on it, really listening. I always say like every platform is its own language and you have to learn the languages and also being a good listener because what I see a lot of brands and even celebrities that try to get on TikTok or whatever do wrong. I use the analogy of it's like going to a small like kickback or party. And if you want to get attention and you want to make friends and be the coolest person in the room, like that's fine. But you can't just walk up to a group of people and be like, hi, this is me. I'm funny. Follow me. I'm so cool. They're going to like ignore you and then turn

around. You have to stand there for a few minutes. You have to listen to what they're saying. What are the conversations? Do you have something of value to add? Then you can maybe chime in. So I think of platforms like that. Like I'm just the listener because brands or celebrities don't always have time to listen to what all the conversations are. I think that's super smart. And that's why I came to you and was like, I need to hire you. So Coco and I have been working together for like three months and you've, you have helped make it digestible about how to come into the party, if you will. Yeah. There are three drinks that I drink every single morning. One is my raw milk with coffee with nugget ice. I also love a lemon water. Sometimes I add my de-bloating drops to it. And then I drink AG1. Okay. I started drinking this daily when I heard about it on Huberman's podcast. And then my husband, Michael, was like,

you need to drink this. You need to try this. This is such a great morning ritual. And it's a great way to get a bunch of vitamins, prebiotics, probiotics, digestive enzymes, for gut support. It has magnesium, B vitamins, basically all the things in one beautiful scoop. And I sort of started on my own. I froth it up with a lot of ice and water and I'll just drink it down. I think it tastes so good. I've recommended AG1 to a bunch of my friends and family. I recommended it to my dad. He's implemented it into his day. If you're a longtime listener, you know that Michael and I have been drinking AG1 for the past year. I think Michael even two years. He likes to do it first thing in the morning. I like to wait about an hour. On that note, AG1 is the supplement I trust to provide the support

my body needs daily, and that's why they've been a partner of the show so long. If you want to take ownership of your health, it starts with AG1. Try AG1 and get a free one-year supply of vitamin D3K2 and 5,3-AG1 travel packets with your first purchase. Go to drinkag1.com slash skinny. That's drinkag1.com slash skinny. Check it out. When Lauren's right, she's right. I have to give her credit here. Let's talk about Branch Basics. If you're like me, one of the many unfortunate people that grew up with all sorts of chemical household cleaning supplies, never knowing the difference, never knowing a better way, well, then I have something for you, and that is Branch Basics. Clean without compromise,

Branch Basics is free of fragrance, hormone disruptors, and harmful preservatives that wreak havoc on our health. It wasn't until Lauren battered me down and said, we're changing all of the household cleaning supplies that I absolutely noticed a difference. Now, anytime I walk into a house that doesn't use natural cleaning supplies or a hotel, immediately I can tell the difference. I feel lethargic. I feel slow. My brain gets a little foggy. And what I've noticed since I've implemented Branch Basics into the house is that I feel much more energy. I don't feel brain fog. And here's the thing. Once I got educated on all the terrible things that they put into most household cleaning supplies, even the ones that

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branchbasics.com code skinny i was introduced to prolon the cleanse from tinks tinks was on instagram story and she was just talking about how much she liked the specific cleanse. It's kind of like a fast. And I started trying it. I did it like probably four times, loved the cleanse. And then Prolong recently launched a fasting shake. I think this is so interesting because the Prolong fasting shake is scientifically proven to mimic the fasting state without spiking blood sugar. It's also designed to maintain a fasting fat burning state longer while keeping the body satisfied. So if you want to intermittent fast, I know Brooke Burke came on and she raved about intermittent fasting. This is such a great way to do it because it's not going to take you out of your fasted state, but you're going to feel

satisfied. Of course, their shake is vegan, dairy-free, gluten-free, soy-free, and it's also, which I think is so cool, packed with 21 vitamins and minerals. So if you're looking to sort of step your toe into intermittent fasting and you want the benefits such as weight loss and increased energy, this is a good way to do it because you won't feel like you're hungry because you have this Prolon fasting shake. Get ready for 2024. Order the Prolon fasting shake today. Right now, our listeners can save 15% off when you go to Prolonglife.com slash skinny and use code skinny at checkout. That's 15% off at P-R-O-L-O-N life.com slash skinny. Prolonglife.com slash skinny. You get 15% off your order. When someone tells you that you don't have the credentials to come into a space,

how do you respond? Because someone, when I first started blogging said, what do you mean you're blogging? You don't have the credentials of a nutritionist. And I think a lot of people get deterred by that if they hear that when they're entering a field. Well, they've said it to us every turn on every kind of meal. I think that's a lot of people who have had success have sort of paved through that.

Can you talk about that? But I also think that as part of that though, is I also think that we've grown up in a culture where people feel you need like permission from some kind of degree or some kind of person that's been, like to be able to enter a space. And I understand that if you're going into a medical field or whatever, but I don't like for me, I don't, I never felt I needed permission to just start doing this on a mic.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's such like good questions because that's something I'm like so passionately feel is that one, like if you are, again, of times it is intuitive, but what really got me is I'm very privileged that I had a college education and I'm very privileged that I am a white woman who was able to get her foot in the door at huge companies like BuzzFeed. But when I first started blowing up, I didn't think that I had to disclose that info. One, because I've always been like super private. And two, because my videos spoke for themselves. Like I was like, I don't need to like tell you my resume. If you think my video is good, you think it's good. If you think it's bad, you think it's bad. And what I always like, I always say my number one mission statement is to make people feel seen and heard. When that specific video, it was like my villain arc because I was like, I'll be fine. But there's probably a girl out there who's working, you know, a dead end job in the middle of nowhere who maybe didn't have access to a college education, maybe not even access to a high school education, and they see TikTok or whatever platform comes next is like, this is my one chance at maybe having a career in makeup or like Coco Moco isn't credentialed and she's a BuzzFeed employee with,

you know, a college degree. Like if she's not credentialed enough, then I don't stand a chance. So for me, it was really being like, I don't know. I just, I think though, if someone's saying that you're not credentialed, you're probably like doing something right. Cause you're disrupting the industry in a way and they're scared. Like, I feel like when you're disrupting, it's like, wait, but that's usually what's going to catch on that. I also think that they're projecting onto you something. And how about this? I don't think credentials are just from college. I think credentials can be found as a bartender. Yes. Learning energy, learning how to multitask, learning how to engage with people. And listen, I think credentials can

be found working at McDonald's. There's different credentials, quote unquote, that you can get from interacting with people in certain industries. And also there's things maybe in your day-to-day life that don't even have to do with work where you can find credentials and you can put it together to create a certain kind of sort of career for yourself. I'll give you like a different, like a counter, like something outside of the creator economy. Like when we started this business, most of the people that work in this business are young, like sub 25, maybe a little older now because we've been doing it for a while. But when we first started this business, most of the people that work in this business are young, like sub-25, maybe a little older now because we've been doing it for a while.

But when we first started doing this, at the time, people were talking about podcasts, but not to the degree they are now. And so I didn't have a list of all these credentialed people that have been in other podcast businesses, or if they had been, they're usually older and coming from radio. So I mostly looked to very young people that had no experience or quote-unquote credentials, but that just what I felt had a good pulse on this type of digital content. And that's how we hired, right? Yeah.

And so if we would have quote-unquote gone for credentials, the company would not exist. Yeah. I mean, I feel like truly, at least what I've learned, even in my path to... I'm at almost a million followers. to, I'm at like almost a million followers. I think I'm at like nine, nine, eight. And I learned so much more from like my lunch breaks at work where I was just posting and like seeing what stuck versus like being in seminars or like I'll travel to seminars and panels and it's really great. And I learn a lot,

but I learn a lot from just doing like, I think I always say behind every viral video is like 30 bad videos that you had to like private or like refilm. And that's like really like just doing. And I like whenever I was hiring people around me at my old job or were having people come onto my team within the company, it was like, I didn't really care about someone if they were like the A plus student that like, like, of course those people are important, but I just wanted the person who was like, just like trying whatever they could and like, just willing to be the first one to like volunteer to do the scary thing. I was like, that's the person who's like, like going to find the next big thing. I know a lot of people with a lot of credentials that have absolutely no execution

and don't know how to execute that are stuck. And I think that that conversation has not had enough. If you cannot do like you just said, you are in your own way. And I don't give a fuck if you have all the credentials in the goddamn world. If you have all the credentials and you're not doing, it's not going to come. Well, here's the thing. Listen, I don't want to knock A students. I am not an A student. But what I would. Well, here's the thing. Listen, I don't want to knock A students. I am not an A student. But what I would say- You were flashing the principal in detention in Saturday school. I think this is something that's interesting to observe and for people

to really think about, especially if they're still in school. If you have spent the majority of your life being told and being trained that success means you get closest to a perfect score as possible, then there's an opportunity where you have to go and you're thinking about trying something on your own. And it's very likely that you're not going to get a perfect score. I mean, my first four or five businesses were disasters. That's just what happens, right? But if you're trained to think that success means you get a perfect score all the time, it is very hard to break out of that mindset and go and try things on your own. And so I sometimes empathize with people that have been taught that a degree in perfect scores on a test equates to success because in my personal experience and the entrepreneurs and

people that I've met in the creator space or in business, it's a lot of micro failures that eventually lead to a success. And I think if you're not equipped to handle that from an emotional standpoint, it becomes debilitating. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas like maybe I relate to that because I was like always like the kind of like not reckless in a bad way, but I was always just the kid that would like just had so much energy and just did everything. And like two quotes to that of what you guys said that I love. One, I think was from Mark Cuban. He said, it takes 10 years to be an overnight success. And then another one, I think it was from Victoria Perez. She's an influencer. And she said that perfectionism is a form of procrastination. And those two, I just live by. I'm like, I just need to get 10 bad videos out there. And then

I'll have that one video that changes my life. Yeah. We know a lot of people that are in that perfection space where they start to do something and they're getting ready to launch it. And then in their eyes, it's not perfect. So instead of launching into potentially failing, they go, ah, you know, I'm moving on to the next thing or I'm not going to try that thing. And, you know, I was listening to you talk and I think it's important for people to think about like, you could study your formula or our formula or another person's formula all day long, but it's not until you actually start doing the thing and getting a bunch of repetitions in that you can actually figure out what works for you. And so I think to Lauren's point, a lot of people do themselves a disservice by thinking it needs to be perfect or they need the credential or they need permission to get going. We always

say on this show, launch fast and adjust because the first 200 episodes were disasters. You know what I mean? It's just how it is. Yeah. What are the trends that are up and coming? Let's start with podcasts since we're here. What do you see in the next five to 10 years for podcasts? And you have your own podcast, so I think you're the perfect person to ask. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, I feel like at least right now I'm seeing this resurgence of like live streamers that aren't just gamers. And I think that we're going to see someone crack the code to like, whenever I go to film a pod or even like a YouTube video, it's so hard and like no one talks about it. Like it's literally like just learning that kind of realm is hard. And so I think that like a meta live stream of pod,

like I was on, I was filming a YouTube video recently and I put my phone in the corner of my desk and just live streamed on TikTok. And I didn't even acknowledge the TikTok. I think in the beginning, I just told him what I was doing. And I was looking at the camera away from the phone. And like that TikTok live got more views than even the YouTube video. And I was like, whoa, like I think that there's something there.

That's super interesting. So like putting a camera up, not acknowledging. I've seen what you're talking about. And it's like live on TikTok. Yeah. People can just that's a really good way for people to find you, too. Yes. And and Mark. Yes. And there's two things about live streaming. And I think we'll see more of that connection with podcasting. But one, I always say with live streaming, it's not about entertainment. It's about companionship. People just want to be in the room with you.

They're probably watching Game of Thrones on their TV and they just have it up. And also, if you think about the type of personality who's going to watch a live streamer They like not in a bad way. They probably have a lot of time on their hands They might be a little bit lonely. Maybe they live alone for the first time and they're probably adopters of new technology So they're the ones who when you announce that you have a patreon or like some new app They're going to be the ones that try it for everyone else because they were the ones watching live streams before everyone else. So I think we'll see more lifestyle live streamers

blowing up that are like filming their podcast kind of in like a like a fly on the wall way. Damn, that is smart. That is smart, smart, smart theory. Thank you. TikTok. Let's pretend someone is listening. They have 100 followers. They have no idea where to start. And let's pretend like they hire you right now to tell them what to do. What tangible tips are you giving them? Yeah. So there's two that I always tell people when they're new. Number one is the nicher you go, the quicker you grow. And of course, people don't want to be put in a box. But if you're going to stand out, you have to have something unique about you. And like I always say, if someone is like, oh, have you seen the girl that does her makeup online? You're like, well, that could be

anyone. But if you're like, have you seen the girl that does get ready with me? You're like Alex Earl. Like, of course, she didn't invent that. But you have to have something unique that if a stranger on the street said it to their friend Have you heard of this person? They would know exactly who you are and if it's too broad, it's not unique enough And then number two is just I I know people hate this but it really is Consistency because you have to train the algorithm. So like when you first start posting videos The algorithm isn't going to know where to pump you out to. So it takes a few videos or even a few weeks or a few months of you posting. Like if you want to be

a popcorn reviewer, like you're obsessed with popcorn and you post 10 videos about you reviewing popcorn, they're probably going to get no views. But eventually the algorithm is going to be like, okay, this person has posted 10 videos about popcorn. I feel like they're taking this seriously. I'm going to pump them out to 300,000 people who liked a movie snack video last night. So it takes time. Like I always say, like the algorithm is like a robot on the other end and you have to like tell them what you want to make videos about. And then eventually they'll pump you out. But people put out one video

and they're like, this is it. And nothing happens. It's not because it was a bad video. It's just that the algorithm like doesn't really know if you're like taking it seriously or not or like what niche you're in. When you say consistency,

I like to get very micro here. What would you suggest that someone does with a 100 followers? How often? What's the duration? Let's get really detailed. So for me, and at least brands I've worked with, I always say three a day, five days a week. Not because it's even about the number, but because if you have to make three videos a day, it forces you to stop overthinking and spending an hour on one video. If you have to make three videos a day, it forces you to stop overthinking and spending an hour on one video. Like if you have to film three a day, you're like, okay, I have

a 30 minute lunch break. That gives me 10 minutes to like quickly do a green screen video about something trending. So I like saying three a day because it forces people to have those off the cusp videos that are usually the most viral. But if you're like, make one a week, then they like, they just brainstorm. And then by the time they film it, it just, it feels forced. What are some things that you've seen go like viral, go crazy that you just can't even believe it? Honestly, so many of live streaming.

I'm like, what? Like, it's just a bizarre world. There's a girl that makes candy. Who's that girl? She's like pulling taffy. Yeah, it's so bizarre. And like live streaming, like isn't to the point of like TikToker fame yet. I would say like anytime there's just something super niche, like there used to be this dog. I think it was named like Doug the Pug. And I don't know if you guys saw it, but they would call it like, is it a bones day?

Like, it's just like a, it's like a saying that they would do. And if the dog was an elderly dog and if he woke it up in the morning and it stood up on its own legs, that meant it was going to be a good day. But if he stood up, Doug the pug,

and then he fell over, it was like a bad day because he didn't have bones that day. So, I mean, I remember like... It's like me every morning. Yeah, exactly. And I remember at work, like people would be like, is it a bones day or a no bones day? And like things like that are just so random, but it like makes sense when it does go viral because you're like, duh, like, why didn't I think of that? Like, it's just so niche. Like, yeah. Where do you think that blogging is going and Instagram? Where do you if you could predict in the next five years? It's so interesting you asked me that because I just

finished reading Glossy, which is like the book. Did you read it? I read it, too. I don't understand why. Like, I felt like everyone wanted that brand to fill and I thought Into the Gloss was so fascinating and such a cool concept and still is. But I mean, in terms of blogging, I don't know. That's hard for me to say because I myself am not a huge blog reader. I read a lot of books. I don't know. I mean, maybe this isn't answering your question. I feel like we're just going to see a lot more influencers publishing books and stuff because we're on this memoir kick right now. But I don't know about blogging. I just am not a consumer of it. Do you know what's interesting for me though that I look at a lot? I think everybody's very aware

of kind of like, quote unquote, the big names that break through. But again, being close to this space and sometimes being on the other side of the veil and seeing the businesses people have built. Lauren and I just spoke at a conference and there was 200 creators there, many of them not mainstream, but all of them are making seven figures a year, if not more. And I always tell people this is like, do you really want to, this goes back to our fame thing. Do you really want to be the biggest or do you want to really build a business? And I think that you read the headlines of the biggest or do you want to really build a business? And I think that like you read the headlines

of like the Forbes 30 under 30 and 40 under 40, which to me is just a bunch of horse shit. You know what I mean? Like I always think it's just like someone paid for that press. But it's true. Did you see my video about it? No, I didn't.

No, they had to change the article. Well, because it's just like, listen, like I know how to get like, if you want to go and you want to flip some numbers and like, I understand those. I did see your video on that. I see your video not to diminish but I know I know people that are in the creator economy that are maybe not as known but like they're powerful and they have substantial businesses with a lot of revenue for many years and so I think like again

like sometimes people their focus is like can I be the most well-known? And I think to your point earlier, it's like the goal should be, can you really build a living doing this for a long period of time? Yes. Have it be sustainable. Yeah, no, I, I 100%, I, I think that the creators that like really dive deep with their audience, like some creators will have a hundred thousand followers, but like those followers are so loyal to them that that's the equivalent of someone who has 10 million followers. And like, it's so, it's that discussion

of like surface level fame versus like diving deep. And I always like say all these different quotes, my manager calls them the Coco-isms, but when it comes to fame or virality, do you want to be great at one thing or good at everything? And I think people that become very like surface level household names, sometimes it's because they're like, they dip their toes in everything, but like they don't dive deep. And like, maybe the people that dive deep don't have

the most recognition, but they have the most power and like people show up. Like, I think the biggest sign of how influential someone is, is if they can like throw a pop-up event and like people physically show up. Like that's crazy to me. Like that's so hard to do. I think a great example of that is Indie from Lonely Ghost, Indie and Brada. They've done a really, I mean, they have people, they did like a haunted house and I think they had like a thousand people show up and they've built such an incredible community. And to Michael's point, you were saying that we spoke at that conference, the people in that audience were very powerful with what they were doing. And maybe they don't have millions of followers. Well, I think my fear for a lot of people that

are looking at this space and maybe glamorizing it a bit is I think it can be really unforgiving. Like if you build a huge platform and then you have an audience abandon you and there's like, you know, we all know these stories. Like people like have this, one calls it astronauts and they go super fast, rise to the top. Everyone's doing deals with them. Then they go away and it's like, you've had this level of quote unquote fame. You've got a bunch of brands throwing money at you and then it's gone. So I think it's like, it's also really important for people to think about like when they're building a career in this space like what they actually want to be known for like not just be known but what's for or they get really popular really fast and they give their brand equity away too easily so all of a sudden you start seeing all

these co-brands with every like there's like 15 co-brands and they they're working with every single brand yeah and slap their name on it and it ruins their equity. Totally. I really do feel like your glass ceiling is like who you collab with. And I interviewed recently Greg Goodfried. He's the D'Amelio's manager. And he's like behind so many crazy internet lores.

But he's one of those like mysterious, powerful people behind the scenes. And he said that part of the reason that D'Amelio signed with him is he told them, you're going to get a lot of offers. Like this is when they were blowing up in 2020. He's like, you're going to get a lot of offers from a lot of people. And it's not about what you can do. It's about what you don't do. And like, I'm the person that will tell you what not to do. And I was like, that is like the best advice. I think people get so excited and they want to do everything. But like the moment that you do a brand deal with like a hokey tea brand or like some random like thing that is a weird, you know, the product's not good or whatever, like your fans don't really trust you anymore.

I totally agree. And I think that that conversation is going to be up and coming for like in the next 10 years. I think we're going to hear a lot of that kind of conversation. Base. Guys, luggage that is designed to fit everything effectively and efficiently. It was invented by actress and model Shay Mitchell. And she's just like all of us. She was looking for ways to make travel a breeze. She created base, the perfect luggage that is fashionable and functional. Here's the thing. I really like this luggage because it's functional, yes, but it also is cute. So you get both things. I personally am a huge, huge fan of their cosmetic bag. It's always sold out. I actually saw it on TikTok first. I bought the black one, fell in love with it so much that

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When you interviewed Charli D'Amelio, her first interview in 2019, what was that like? I had been working with someone close to her recently, and I don't even know if she'd remembered, but I was at the event and I'm like, I don't know if you remember because, you know, my first name is this and that's how you knew me. But now I'm Coco and that's how you know me now. But like you, that interview that I did with you like changed my life. And so I really think of that moment is like why I'm in this room like that, like interviewing her was and I wasn't on screen. It was what happened behind the scenes. So I was at Famous Birthdays and when I got the job, I was assigned to run the TikTok. It was musically and then it switched to TikTok. And

I remember thinking like, this is going to ruin my career. At the time, everyone was doing Instagram marketing, YouTube marketing. And I was like, if I have TikTok on my resume, no one's going to take me seriously. But I was like, I need the job. I'm just going to try it. Again, going back to the person that just tries the new things and is figuring it out for everyone else. And so I was on TikTok and then Evan Britton, the guy who founded famous birthdays, he was like, if you see anyone on your for you page, who you think might be famous, like invite them in just like you have full invite control, whoever you think. And I remember it was when TikTok really started to take off in late 2019. And then one of Charlie's videos were coming up on my feed.

And there also weren't that many videos back then. But anyways, the moment I knew she was going to be famous is I saw people duetting her and talking about her hype. And I always say that's the moment you have a third party talking about you, not like a friend or a coworker, but like someone unrelated to you, they're going to be famous. So I emailed her and I remember she was like, hi, like I think my dad's coming to LA for business. Like I'm going to see if I can come with him. So we were like, okay, great.

So then she came in and they filmed the interview with her. And the video was starting to go so viral that I remember one of my managers being like, I don't know if these numbers are real. Like we thought YouTube was just like inflating our numbers. But I was like, no, I think she actually has this audience. And no one had heard her talk before because she was blowing up dancing. So no one knew her voice, her mannerisms. So I think that was where the fascination from the audience came in. And then because of those videos, I remember she went on like a Gary Vee podcast a little bit after that. And he's like,

when did you know you were famous? And I think she said something about like when famous birthdays reached out for an invite. And then from there, I started working with her manager and her dad would reach out to me and be like, hey, we're in town. Like, can we come in for another interview? And we would just stop everything and be like, we have to play it cool. Like on email, they'd make us be like, if we had the whole day free, we would have to be like, well, we have an opening at 1130 or like 215. Just so they thought we were important. I mean, I guess at that point we were, but when the millers would come in, we'd play cool, but like everything would stop.

And there was one video where it was Charlie and Chase Hudson, another TikToker. And I think right now it's at like 40 million views on YouTube, like four zero, not 14. And that was the video that like changed the trajectory of my career. Just went so viral. And I was kind of the person behind the scenes that produced it. And then so viral. And I was kind of the person behind the scenes that produced it. And then when I applied to BuzzFeed for an internship, I didn't get it, but I had that video listed on my resume

and they reached out a month later and were like, oh, like you made these videos. Like we're trying to figure out TikTok. Like, well, you just come full time. So I got an even better job than the one I had applied for. The recruiter at BuzzFeed was asleep at the switch there for a second. Yeah, right. Yeah. And it was like, and I'm guessing they put like TikTok in the resume

finder and mine came up and then I had the like data to prove it. But I always say like that, that the videos that I made with the D'Amelio's, like they might not even remember me or like I've, but like to me, like those changed my life. And I got to go to like the Sway House, which is so like, it was like Bryce Hall and like Jaden Hossler. But it was like, it was such a time. And it was like right before COVID happened. And Famous Birthdays was just getting the interviews

with all these kids before they were like really taken seriously by like mainstream media. So it was like this little bubble. What marketing trends do you think are up and coming right now? Yeah. Oh my gosh. Go off. I think we're going to see the rise of like super long videos on TikTok, like the 10 minute feature. And I know that sounds crazy. People like, I hate watching long videos, but I think that I said this earlier this year at a panel, I'm calling it short form fatigue. I think people are going to have short form fatigue on social media, which is like when I'm scrolling on my For You page,

like I want to be able to just find a long video and then like brush my teeth like while it plays. You know, and like YouTube, sometimes the discoverability is really hard on YouTube and like podcast discoverability is even harder. Like I found like my few good podcasts that I love and listen to. But like, I think TikTok, the videos are just so short. So I think that we're going to see audiences like in the next year, in 2024, like we're going to see someone blow up on TikTok

who makes like eight minute videos. Like that's going to be their thing. That's not surprising to me at all. I think, you know, history kind of repeats itself. And I think what happens is this is maybe, I mean, now TikTok's aged up a bit, but it's a, I would think it's fair to say it's a younger generation of viewers. And I think what happens over time is your interests are broadened and you want more depth from the people you follow. And so you want more where it's like a dance video at one point was enough, but then you're like, I want to know what you're wearing

and what you're thinking and what you're eating. And then like, you don't want that in a 30 second form and where you're like, I need to actually hear what you're thinking about this event or this day. I think that's just like the natural progression of things as people age up. Yeah. Well, and like from a user perspective, when videos are really short,

like I hated whenever people would say, oh, Vine is big. Like people's attention spans are only seven seconds. It's like less than a goldfish. I'm like, I think it takes more brain power to like scroll every five seconds. And your brain has to process a new video, a new face, a new caption, a new topic, a new maybe sentence structure, a new comment section. And you have to decide in a split second if you want to watch it.

And so every five seconds, your brain is all this new info, info, info, and it's exhausting. And I think that from a user point of view, they're just going to want to be able to open the app and find like long videos and enjoy them. And I even on the TikTok beta version, like if you go on their website on your desktop, they're testing out these podcast features. So I think there's going to be like a for you page, but like for podcasts. Sometimes I want to listen to a podcast when I'm cooking or doing laundry or whatever I'm doing, but I also want to see the person. So to put on a TikTok would be amazing. There's this book I read a long time ago and I always recommend it. It's called The One Thing. And in that book, it talks about how multitasking is a facade and how we're actually as humans not

good at multitasking. Like if I said, hey, do this podcast, but then let's sit down and go over our spreadsheet and then let's sit down. Like your brain is not, it's not equipped to do that. And there's a guy we're having on the show named Michael Easter and he just wrote this book called Scarcity Brain. And he's, a lot of it's about this endless scrolling and how it's like, it's actually maybe not the greatest thing. Well, we know it's not the greatest thing for the human brain. And so that doesn't surprise me at all because I think, like I was in the car today I was like I find myself sometimes endlessly scrolling on stuff like this is useless and this is not feeding and I and there's no takeaway because it's just so many things that I can't be like oh that one thing I'm taking something because if I

ask both of you what are the last five videos that you saw scrolling you guys cannot remember yeah that's that's crazy. But if I ask your last YouTuber podcast you clicked on, you know exactly who it was, why you would listen. There's just no object permanence on TikTok. Yeah. And these platforms are really good about giving the dopamine hits. And so I think you get to a point where you're just like, people get so fatigued because to your point, there's not a takeaway. Even though the video might be valuable, it's just too many. You can't remember. There's no retention. I also think like how many people can you actually like consume when you're consuming like 6 million? It's like too many

people. It's like pick your players. Yeah. That's why sometimes like I'll get comments. It's so divisive, but I say the intro in some of my videos like, hi, I'm Coco Moco. I work in media. And it's so repetitive, but I do it because it like, it's memorable. Like people can remember it. I almost feel like it's hypnotic. And when someone sees a hundred videos, if they hear me say that like 10 times over the course of a month,

they're going to like remember that. And so that intro doesn't work for everyone and it's not for every video, but it's just like a little thing that I do to try to like stand out and like people remember me. It reminds me of a jingle like in the 60s, like a commercial. Yeah. Like what's the jingle? Like there's so many good jingles. Yeah. I remember like Rice-A-Roni, a San Francisco treat. Yes. Or I remember like Two and a Half Men, like Charlie Sheen's character was like a jingle writer.

I don't know if you guys ever watched Two and a Half Men. I didn't watch that show. Charlie Sheen was doing more than jingle writing. I know, right? Yes. Jingling his balls. Charlie, come on the show, Charlie. I know.

That'd be a crazy podcast. Are there any other marketing trends that we should be paying attention to? I guess I'll like end on this note, which is so counterintuitive to like what I do, but I always try to say this to people, which is like, I like to report on trends. I think that they're really great benchmarks to look back in history and be like, this is why people's attention was on this thing. But if you really want to stand out, like if you really, really want to build a loyal following, don't pay attention to trends. If

anything, like do the opposite because people are going to have that itch for it. And like culture swings like a pendulum. So like what we're talking about right now, everyone's doing short form TikTok, you know, 30 second videos, but like the pendulum is going to swing. So if you're the person doing eight minute videos and you have that muscle, when the pendulum swings in six months, you're going to be the one that knocks it out of the park. So like, I guess like it's not even a marketing trend. It's just like a philosophy, which is like pay attention to trends. So then you can give people what they're missing. That is damn good advice. Before you go, what is a trend that you have predicted or trends that have been 100% right?

I would say my first ever video that I did, I was talking about how I think the Tumblr aesthetic and just talking about Tumblr and stuff is going to come back full force. And I swear no one was talking about it back then. This was last August or September. And since then, like the whole vibe has come back. Like the 1975 has trended again. Like Lana Del Rey is bigger than Tumblr. I'm like a Lana fan, but like she's had this resurgence of this new audience that didn't really find her from Tumblr. But like and this one random sound on TikTok is trending and it's a G-Eazy

Tumblr girls. It'sEazy Tumblr girls. It's literally called Tumblr girls. And like the aesthetic of like the like messy makeup and this kind of grunge like side bangs that was really big on Tumblr. Like, so I really think that just the Tumblr discussions and aesthetic and vibe, like I called it last fall, I guess, late summer. And I feel like it's been such a big trend this year come on if you've been following kim just said tumblr or tumblr kylie's back she said that kim

kardashian i think so i think she said that i know she said like king kylie but king kylie was tumblr yeah i'm pretty sure she said that michael yeah you don't even know what tumblr is i even said it wrong i said tumblr but tumblr when mich Michael does a sidebang, when you do it, do a dashboard confessional sidebang. Kim Kardashian say Tumblr Kylie is back. I think she did. You're spending too much time

scrolling. Where can everyone find you? Follow everything you're doing. Pimp yourself out. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, my biggest platform, of course, is TikTok at CocoMoco. I was right. Carson says I mean, my biggest platform of course is TikTok at Coco Moco. I was right. Carson says I'm right. There we go. Told you Lauren, get on the tram Lauren. Yes. And no, you're so good. I'm happy that that was correct. Cause I was like saying the word

Tumblr, like that it was going to come back. And then anyways, and then my like ultimate pride, like where I really love making videos and my best quality work is my podcast, Ahead of the Curve with Coco Moco. And that's where I get to like interview really cool people and dive into like whatever's trending and stuff. So I'm going to be doing a deep dive on the glossy book in my upcoming episode and what I think about it. So yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. Two things before you go, you can watch us now on YouTube. So you can go on YouTube,

search The Skinny Confidential and watch our entire episodes on your computer or TV. Also, you should know, Michael and I are doing a him and her newsletter. So basically it's a him and her tip of the day, five days a week.

And the tips are very specific, as you can imagine. And then we also have a monthly favorites. So basically we collect all our monthly favorites, everything we've bought and used and tried and put it in one monthly newsletter for you. To subscribe to the him and her tip newsletter, all you have to do is go to tscpodcast.com. That's tscpodcast.com.