The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Former NYC Police Officer, Celebrity Bodyguard, & Author Thomas Fitzsimmons On The Current State Of The US & The Days Before Donald Trump's Presidency

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

#328: On today's episode we are joined by former police officer, celebrity bodyguard, & author Thomas Fitzsimmons to discuss the current state of the US and the life of a former police officer. We also discuss what it means to be a celebrity bodyguard and what Donald Trump was like back in the studio 54 days before he became president.  To check out Thomas Fitzsimmons books click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 25,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for free. That’s right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Tatcha We are super excited to incorporate Tatcha’s newest treatment, The Dewy Serum, into our skincare ritual. This 3-in-1 serum resurfaces, plumps, and locks in moisture for smoother, plumper, dewier skin, and who doesn’t want that? The Dewy Serum helps replenish components of healthy skin lost over time, so don’t be surprised when your friends ask why your skin looks as soft as a baby’s. use our code SKINNY at www.tatcha.com for 15% off you order! Produced by Dear Media

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You never know what you're going to get. I never know what we're going to get anymore. I mean, this show goes all over the place. Today, we have Thomas Fitzsimmons. He is a real life celebrity bodyguard, a top author, and he used to be a model, actor, and policeman. He has a very colorful background. Not only was he a policeman, too. He was a policeman in the Bronx, which he has some wild stories. To give you guys a little bit of context, Tom was also my mom's fiance. Before she passed, they were engaged. So I have a very soft spot for him in my heart. He's a very sweet man. He's always showing us around New York City every single time we come out and he's like a stepfather to me. So I'm very excited about this episode. It goes sort of all

over the place. Yeah. We just talk about, you know, Tom's life as a police officer, as an author, as a celebrity bodyguard, getting to New York. We talk about some stories with Donald Trump, which kind of were curveball, you know, in his dealings back in the day in New York and before he became president. So this conversation is really just that. It's a conversation with somebody who Lauren and I hold near and dear to our hearts and who's just an all-around great guy. Yeah. Back in the studio 54 days, he knew Donald Trump. So we get into the juice on that. Before we get into it, Tom also has some books on Amazon that you guys have to check out. My favorite is Confessions of a

Celebrity Bodyguard. He also has Confessions of a Catholic Cop and Confessions of a Suicidal Policewoman. You can find that all on Amazon. So with that, let's welcome Thomas Fitzsimmons, a former New York City police officer, a real life celebrity bodyguard and former Ford model. And of course, author to the skinny confidential him and her show. This is the skinny confidential him and her. I am so excited to have my mom's fiance. I would say my stepdad in the studio. You guys, it's so exciting. He was a cop in the Bronx. He's an author. He's a celebrity bodyguard. And he just wrote the juiciest book involving Donald Trump, which we're going to get into. Tom, welcome to the studio. Uh-oh.

I'm a legend in my own mind. We're so excited to have you. Can you give us a little background about where you grew up? I know you're a twin. Grew up in the Bronx. In an Irish section called Woodlawn. Still there. Still a great section. Went in the military, the Navy. Then became a cop when I was 21.

Wound up in the South Bronx, a place called Fort Apache, the Bronx. It sucked. Terrible place to work. High crime. Highest crime in the United States, as a matter of fact. 2.2 square miles of, it was an anthill. It was Calcutta. I got out after 10 years and then went into show business. I was with the Ford Model Agency for 10 years, had a lot of fun with that. And then went into television commercials and did about 150 spots in, I guess, about five or six years. It was a lot of fun, a lot of fun.

Oh, and in between that, too, I was with NBC for a while. I was with their news division. They put together a show called Now back then. The show only ran one season. It sucked, so it only ran one season. I had a great co-host, but we just didn't catch on. It was something, well, it was magazine format. I don't think they do them anymore, but I've always been in law enforcement in some way. Even when I left the police department, you know, living in New York City,

you meet celebrities all the time and you know, you're just sitting next to them at bars and you get, you make friends. People are always asking me to help out. My daughter is dating a bad guy. Some guy wants to put the money into a business. I need to know if he's legitimate. Follow this one, follow that one. Got very close to Larry Hagman, that way I used to, you know, the actor Larry Hagman used to do Dallas. And so I helped him out a lot of little things as favors. I wasn't getting paid for it really, but that led to the celebrity bodyguard business. So what a trajectory. When I think about it, I go, how did I get involved in all this stuff? But it's been a ride and a

hell of a lot of fun. Hell of a lot of fun. So at 21 years old, becoming a cop in Fort Apache, what year was that? 1969. And what was Fort Apache like? I mean, you're 21 years old. It must've been a scary place. It was terrible. It was very scary. It uh the highest crime area in the united states they used to compare to calcutta just it was it was horrible a lot of cops in the united states never draw their gun once in 20 years i drew my gun every day what are some what are some circumstances that you would have to draw your gun like what was the day-to-day in the life well in in a place like the south bronx every every job you went to,

you had your gun out. When you went into a tenement, let's say for a landlord-tenant dispute or a husband-and-wife dispute or anything, you took your gun out and you just held it down because the odds of getting in a gunfight were, you know, it was possible. There, it was very possible. You make a car stop, you're going to pull your gun out because the guy in the car could very, very well have a gun. It was a very, very poor section. It was also the poorest place in the United States, a one-off. High crime. So with everything going on this year, I mean, obviously there's been a lot going on with police and there's cries for defending the police.

And you, a former cop, what goes through your mind when you see all of this? Because obviously you dedicate a lot of your life to protecting and serving. When you see this, how does that make you feel? And what do you think about all the current circumstances? It's a cycle. This is why the South Bronx was, why it existed, because we had the same types of politicians back then. They used to glorify the rights of the criminal and they handcuffed the cops. So places like the South Bronx flourished. Crime flourished. And only when a politician's children become the victims will we have law and order in New York City again. They'll bring back a Giuliani.

But again, it's a cycle. Because we had a lot of good years under guys like Bloomberg and Giuliani and Koch, and they will law and order mayors. So what do you think is going to happen right now in New York? Oh, I think it's in terrible trouble. What are your former buddies saying, or the ones that are still on the force or not on the force, what is their attitude now? They're not anxious.

They're not enthusiastic about the job anymore because they know anything they do is going to be scrutinized. And in the event that something horrific happens, they're going to come down on the cops. Everybody's looking to hurt the cops. Ridiculous. That's what I think about the most is like, when you think about the next pool of people

that are thinking about becoming a police officer, like it's, I imagine enthusiasm for going into that line of work has declined significantly this year, which is probably keeping a lot of good candidates out of the force. You can't do it for the money because it's a vocation. Being a police officer is really a vocation, as is the fire department. You have to really want it. You're not going to get rich doing it.

At least the firemen, everyone loves the firemen because you're just running into buildings and saving people's lives. Cops are the disciplinarians. They're forced to enforce laws that they don't want to enforce. They're less popular. You wrote a book called Confessions of a Catholic Cop. Very good book, highly recommend. Can you pinpoint one of your scariest moments that you maybe wrote about in the book? A book I wrote 10 years ago. It could be any moment. It doesn't have to be in the book. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What happens if you get accustomed to being on edge when you're a cop and you work in the ghetto.

I mean, the first couple of months, you're really nervous. But I remember the first time I pulled a gun on a guy. I was shaking. You know, I was shaking. I was afraid I had the wrong guy, and I was afraid he would do something, and then I'd have to shoot him. And I didn't know if I could shoot him. I really didn't know if he pulled a gun on me. I don't know what I would have done because it was the first time I'd ever done that in my life.

Of course, when you work in a place like the South Bronx, you pull your gun every day, you get used to it. For people that are listening and they hear you say you pull your gun every day, like why is that? Say you're making a routine stop, like you just automatically it out, or is there something that's triggering that event? You pull the gun out. In the South Bronx, you pull your gun out. You just keep it at your side. Because back in the 70s, there was a war on cops, just like now. We had the Black Liberation Army, and they were murdering cops on the streets. They were shooting them in the back. And I could get out of my police car, and somebody could drop a cinder block on my head. The ghetto was like that.

They'd throw couches down, cinder blocks, bricks. So you always had to be prepared. And when you walked into any building, and they're all tenements, they're all really run-down tenements. You don't know who's waiting for you, whether it's a trap. Frequently it was. Sometimes it's just kids trying to dump urine on you or something. But other times you're walking in on a drug dealing situation and it's like, oh my God, what do I do now?

We're watching this show, which is so good. If you haven't watched it called 60 Days In. No, I haven't seen it yet. Okay. So it's about prisons and- Jails, not prisons. Yeah, jails. They send moles into the prisons as prisoners.

Like everyday people. Everyday people. And there could be a girl that looks like me and a girl that looks like, or a guy that looks like Michael, but then there could also be a Marine. And then there could maybe be an ex drug addict that used to be in jail, but now he's reformed into a preacher. So they send all these different people in. And they don't tell, the only person that knows is the warden or the head of the prison,

the sheriff and the person. So none of the inmates know anden of the or the head of the prison the sheriff and the person so none of the inmates know and none of the jail staff knows and they go in and they actually live like actual inmates for 60 days and then they have to go through and see like some people opt out some people stay the whole time and it's like this whole experience of like and the reason they do it is the what they say on the show is the the jails are trying to figure out better ways to run their jail so they want to unbiased thought process from what it's like to be an inmate, watch observing other inmates as well as observing the jail staff. So anyways, so as we're watching this, Michael and I keep commenting on

the prisons or the jail system. It's fucked up. Terrible. What are your thoughts on that? When you're bringing someone to jail, what do you feel? Do you think the prison systems or I should say jail systems fucked up that's what we're watching it seems like there's no chance for rehabilitation a lot of people really belong in jail they're just bad they're evil and nothing's going to change them there's the occasional guy like a lot of these these these

people in jail for drugs i just i think it's it's ridiculous. I think they're victims. Real drug addicts are like alcoholics. They can't stop themselves. They're never going to stop themselves. And in order to afford the habit, they're going to start getting into crime. So as long as it's not violent crime, I don't see the purpose of filling the jails up with junkies. Like I said, they're like alcoholics. What if we'd start locking up all the alkeys? I'd have no friends left. Streets would be empty. Yeah, what they say on the show is like a lot of people that go into the jail system, you can get drugs cheaper in the jail.

So they actually go and try to get arrested to go into the jail. Oh, Michael Douglas's son was in, his son Cameron. And Cameron had a problem, wasn't a bad guy. Maybe he's a very nice guy. I know him. A terrific guy. And he got caught up in this drug stuff. And eventually they grabbed him.

And I think they sentenced him to 11 years. Wow. He did five. And he was going to get out on good behavior. But they do the blood tests and the urine tests. And they discovered that he was getting drugs in jail. Duh. It's easier to get him in jail than any place.

So the poor guy had to do more time. But he should never have been in jail. Cameron should never have been in jail. Yeah. Quick break to talk about one of our favorite services, one of our favorite brands, and that is Skillshare right off the backs of an episode we just did on productivity. What better way to start the new year in a productive way than by learning a new skill? And that's why we are happy to talk about Skillshare once again on this show. So for those of you that are new to this show and have not heard, or have either been listening to this show and living under a rock, Skillshare is an online learning community that offers

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school, college, very expensive, especially when you can't be there in your remote. An annual subscription with Skillshare can cost less than $10 a month, which is a ton of bang for your buck. There is really no excuse when Skillshare is around. This is an insane way to start a side hustle. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash TSC and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash TSC. With that, let's get back to the episode. He wrote a book about it too, huh? Yes. Yes. He wrote a book about, yeah, memoir. Yeah. Yeah.

I read a little bit of that. Yeah. That was good. Yeah. A lot of questions on this. Are there typical rules that you have to follow when you pull a gun? Oh, sure. I mean, be careful.

So there's not a system of rules that they give you as a police officer. Well, in the police academy, they try to run over a lot of scenarios. But in reality, it's not the street. When you're on the street, you're on your own. Cop's on his own. He has to make his own decisions. If some guy scares you, he scares you. And if you need to be aggressive, you will be.

Use what they call necessary physical force. What do you think has changed since the time you were a police officer in the 70s to now? If you need to be aggressive, you will be. Use what they call necessary physical force. What do you think has changed since the time you were a police officer in the 70s to now? There's a lot of similarities because of the political environment. Believe it or not. If you ask me this, when Bloomberg was mayor, I would have just said it's a lot better job because people have respect for cops. But now that's waning with all the politics. And so it's very much like it was in the 70s. So not a lot has changed and it's going to get worse. And what happens is when you discourage

cops from doing their job, they're not going to do it or they're going to hesitate. Why should I run to a gun battle and I can walk? Why get involved? Because I'm the one that's going to be in trouble. I make a wrong decision. I say the wrong thing. Really, you say the wrong thing, and they come down on you. Tough. Have you seen bad cops? Have you actually seen people that are acting out of integrity in the police? The New York City Police Department is 38,000 people.

All the guys I knew were just hardworking guys just trying to get home at night to their wife and kids. Most of them had second jobs. I never saw any brutality. guys just trying to get home at night to their wife and kids. Most of them had second jobs. I never saw any brutality. I never saw anyone hurt who really didn't deserve to be hurt. You start fighting cops, you're going to get hurt. This is what they seem to be teaching people today. You can resist arrest. No, you can't. You can't resist arrest. You cannot. And if you do, you're going to get hurt. It's just a matter of time. Although now I think the cops will not, someone gets really aggressive and a cop may just walk away and leave him alone. You know, why should I be rolling on the floor with this character and wind up, I'll wind up in handcuffs. He's the bad guy.

He's got the gun and the knife. He attacked me, but you're supposed to have more control, I guess. I don't know. Cops are people too, you know. Cops are people too. So know? Cops are people too. What was your epiphany on why you decided to leave? It was a Sunday. I'll never forget it.

It was a Sunday. Very quiet Sunday in the South Bronx, which is rare. You spend your time picking up the drunks. And if you find dead bodies, you just call a morgue wagon. I was with a guy who wasn't my partner. He was just a fill-in. Terrific guy. We were patrolling the southern part of Fort Apache.

Some guy comes running up to us and says he was just robbed. And okay, I'm going, oh, gosh, it's my last tour. I'm supposed to go away for the weekend. This is going to keep me in court for two days and all that kind of stuff. So we were a little hesitant. But the guy said, this guy over here robbed us, this guy over here. And there was this big muscular guy with no shirt on on he was all sweaty it was it was like august and we went over to talk to him and he he just kept walking he wouldn't stop for us he wouldn't

listen to us so i try to grab him the guy threw me threw me against the car he threw my partner against the car so now we're fighting this guy and he was easily resisting arrest. He wasn't hurting us. We weren't hurting him either. He's accused of a robbery. I do have the option to take my gun out. And maybe he's a fleeing felon. He committed a robbery, but I didn't see him commit the robbery. And I don't know who this character is who's saying he got robbed. You don't know what's going on. This is normal with cops. What the hell is going on? Who's telling the truth? In the end, the so-called robber, the accused robber, he just ran away. And then I was left with this complainant and he was drunk. And then his friends came and wanted to fight us because they thought we were trying to arrest him or hurt him. So I remember saying to myself, I don't want to do this anymore. I just

don't want to do this anymore. It's crazy. What am I doing out here in the street? What good am I doing? So I put my papers in. But I was lucky because I had had an offer from NBC News at the time to sign on with the news division. So it was kind of an easier transition for me because I knew what I wanted to do and where I was going to go. Well, I imagine that sentiment is shared by a lot of police officers these days because it's like you said, it's a vocation. It's very hard to make a lot of money. I mean, any money as a police officer. And if you are not being appreciated by the people that you're potentially protecting and serving, and instead you're being

scrutinized and actually in a lot of cases being looked down upon, it's like, who wants to deal with that? You're not making any money. Everybody's got a terrible attitude towards you. You're in danger every single day. You're dealing with some of the hardest people in the world to deal with. And it's like, I hear that. I'm like, who the hell would want to do that? Yeah, yeah. And that's what's scary about now. It's like, what do you think is going to happen with people that are really trying to protect and serve the public? It's like, they're going to say, eh, maybe I'm not going to do this. Maybe I go be a fireman. Maybe I go into another line. Maybe I'd be a bodyguard. What's going to happen with the public then? Well, there's an exodus from the New York City Police

Department now. Sure. I can imagine. Especially the old guys, they put in their papers right away. A lot of the newer people just aren't showing up. They pass the test, the academy calls them, and they're just not going in. Or if they want, maybe they can get a job in Suffolk County or someplace where they make double the money that the New York City cop makes. And it's a lot safer. Yeah, it's a bad situation, and the city's only going to get worse. So would you predict that the city's going to get more dangerous crimes going to rise? Totally. I think shootings are up 200% now. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. They did away with the anti-crime guys, which I used to do in the South Bronx. These are the guys who take the guns off the street. I don't know. Somebody decided they were being too aggressive. Now we've got guns on the street. Back when Giuliani was in and Bloomberg and Koch, no one carried guns because they knew the cops, at least only a stupid person would carry them. They would leave them places. So they always had a stash gun like in a mailbox or something when they need it. But they wouldn't carry it because they knew these cops are going to grab them and toss them and stop and frisk. Stop and frisk worked.

It's what brought law and order back to the city. And until they bring it back, nothing's going to change. Crime will continue to climb. And when the politicians, city council, when they become victims, when their children become the victims, their wives are getting mugged and tossed on subway tracks, then things will change. Then you're going to see, you're going to see a law and order mayor

come back in and a governor. And then they'll say to the cops, take, go do the job, lock people up, we'll back you up. Well, I think sometimes people, especially in politics, that they haven't actually been in these circumstances,

they hope for this like dreamlike utopia where everybody gets along, everybody's got warm and fuzzy feelings and nobody does harm to each other. And there's no guns and people don't need guns. It's called la-la land. Yeah. It doesn't exist. And I think obviously all of us would love that and people try to work towards it, but it doesn't exist. And when people talk to me about gun rights in private, I always say the fact of the matter is there are guns in America. There are legal and illegal guns. And if a criminal wants a gun, they're going to get a gun regardless of whatever the laws,

they exist in this country. So you need to have, instead of criminal wants a gun, they're going to get a gun regardless of whatever the laws. They exist in this country. So you need to have, instead of not just gun reform, but you need to have people that are actually policing these people and making sure that the people that shouldn't have them are getting caught with them and getting taken away. Yeah. You don't have that. It's not like these guns are going to disappear and people are going to stop carrying them. No, no. They're there. They're going to carry more.

They're there, but very few legal guns are used in crime. Guys aren't going to use a registered weapon. The bad guys have these Saturday night specials or whatever they call them these days. They're easy to get. You can't get rid of the bad guys. They're always going to be there. And the thing is, a cop, you learn to catch it. You may not remember this, but your mom used to go crazy.

I was always locking the doors in the house in Carmel Valley. The kids used to run in and out at the door all the time. I was nuts. Every time the kids went out, I'd lock the doors. Front doors, back doors in and out at the door all the time. I was nuts. Every time the kids went out, I'd lock the doors. Front doors, back doors, garage door, I'd lock everything up. And you guys couldn't get back in. Faye would be ringing the bell and ringing the bell. And your mom would say, what are you doing?

Just by having. I said, well, you can't leave the doors open. She goes, yeah, you can. I said, okay. So I learned. If she's like me, if she was like me, then she was definitely leaving the doors open. Michael has to help me out with that too. How did you meet Lauren's mother?

We met at a party in New York City at a place called Bruno's. It was a birthday party for a mutual friend of your Aunt Cheryl, Paul Darunia. And that's where we met. Yeah. I'll never forget when she told me about you. She showed me a picture of you. And I said, is he an actor? I was.

And you were. I don't think I ever. Did you used to work out in the garage? Yeah. Okay. That's okay. I was young. I met you a few times, but Lauren and I were kind of like, at the time we were not, you

know, I was like, must've been like 12 or 13 years old. It was like. Let's just say it how it was. I was trying to hang out with older guys. Yeah, yeah. So I was kind of out of the picture. But I remember going over to Lauren's mom's house early. Like, and I see you a couple of times.

I'd be like, what the hell is that? That big guy in the garage. Yeah, yeah. Kind of a scary guy at the time. Yeah, we put a gym in there. Yeah. I put a gym in. I remember that.

But you know what I remember most about that house? What's that? There was a pool outside. The penis pool. There was a penis pool. You guys, this penis pool had huge balls as the jacuzzis. Like the layout.

There was two jacuzzis with huge balls and then it was a huge dick. And the best part of it is that there was a secret garden at the end and the penis pool would sport into

the secret garden. Was it like an accident design or did somebody design it? No, it's how the guy designed it, the owner. Was my mom down with that? When she saw the penis No, it's how the guy designed it, the owner. Was my mom down with that? When she saw the penis pool, she's like, don't let him swim in the dick. We didn't really realize it at first.

The way the pool was set up, it just looked like a pool. We kind of looked at the backyard and everything, but the house was beautiful. It had a great kitchen. It had the bedrooms. It was a new house. It was sitting on a great lot, gated community. So I don't think I noticed it right away. I don't think she did either.

Except when we went out there one day and she started pruning the roses after a couple of days there, after we moved in. Oh, no, she was, that's right. She was looking down from upstairs and she saw it. She's going, oh my God, look at this. It was a full dick. Yeah, full dick. Yeah.

An erect dick. Yeah, an erect dick. I used to tell all my friends, come on, let's go swim in the dick. Yeah. So I used to play Marco Polo there. They used to play Marco Polo. I want to ask you something about firefighters. So you have a lot of very good friends, one in particular that I know named Danny, who's a firefighter. Dan Noonan, yeah. Great guy. They also have a hard time when they leave for different reasons, I feel like.

I read a story that you wrote a while ago on his experience of a fire that he was taking care of. Yeah. He ended up getting all these different things from that fire. Can you speak on that? Because I know you know a lot about that. All right, we're going to get more into that, but first we're going to talk about ritual. But we're going to talk about ritual when it comes to your kids. So if your kids are picky, you have not met the parents at ritual. They decided to use their high standard approach

that they use with all of their vitamins and create essential for kids. Okay. First of all, I have been taking ritual for the last two years. I took it before I got pregnant. I took it while I was pregnant and I now take it after. And I know when Zaza turns four that I can give a ritual now. I don't need to second guess it. I don't need to be obsessive about the labels because ritual does it all for you. Okay. And they know how difficult it is for kids to get the nutrients you need. I have a friend where her five-year-old only eats macaroni and cheese. Like that's all he eats. He wants Kraft macaroni and cheese all the time. So she's been using essential for kids by ritual. I sent her some so she could try it out

and she's obsessed. So she doesn't feel as anxious knowing that her child's only eating mac and cheese when at least he's having his vitamins. Here's another thing that you should note. Kids have trouble swallowing vitamins. We know this. And they also don't like the chalky taste. So Ritual designed this natural citrus berry flavor that I've actually tried because I wanted to experiment with it and just test it out. And in it, it has a daily multi, a vegan omega-3 DHA, and it's a good source of fiber, okay? So if you want to go on their website and check everything out, they laid it out for you. It's all streamlined. And I just feel like when it comes to kids, you want to know exactly what you're giving your kids and why you're giving it to them. And on their website, they have their full visible supply chain so you can see everything

you're dealing with and you know what nutrients are in their multivitamins. You also can see where they're sourced, which is a huge plus. When it comes to what's going in our kids' body, they've got being picky down to a science. That's why Ritual is offering all Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, 10% off during your first three months. Visit ritual.com slash skinny to start Ritual or add Essential for Kids today. And definitely check out their Essential for Women. That's the one I take. I love it. All right, let's get back to the show. Sure. The story was called The Red Star of Death,

and it was about a fire took place in the 70s in the telephone building down in the, I've got 11th Street or something in the East Village. It was the first major fire where PCP was burning. What's that for anyone that doesn't know? It's plastic. It's plastic. All the phone companies had started using that kind of a casing.

Although there was evidence that it was deadly if it burned, the people just ignored it and they started using it because it was cost effective and it did a good job. But the firemen who went to that particular fire, they didn't know what they were getting into. And every fireman who responded to the first alarm has cancer. And most are gone. Most are gone now.

That's terrible. Everybody, yeah. And the city didn't do the right thing by them. They turned their back on them. Just from breathing the fumes, all these guys. Fumes. The fumes were jet black. And how long did they fight this fire oh god it took a i think a day and i forget i you know i wrote the story but i wrote it a long time ago i forget but no it was

a five alarmer and you know they fought it for for a long time because they couldn't find the seat of the fire and because of the conditions and you couldn't see anything and the the breathing packs in those days i think they only lasted 20 minutes. It took you 20 minutes to get down to the bottom, and everything was soot and ink black. Yeah, it was horrible. It was horrible. So firemen go, you know, they go through that a lot. I shouldn't talk about Dan's position, but he's got cancer from that.

And like I said, everybody from the first alarm is, I think they're all gone now. Do a lot of firefighters get cancer when they leave? Depends where they work. Yeah, they do. Sure. Because they're breathing the smokes. Yeah. Oh, sure.

That is so crazy. The amount of things that happen after you leave the job, after you think you're done with it. Yeah, after you think you're done with it. I know firemen, several firemen, four and five different cancers from being a fireman. Yeah. Is it mostly lung? It's lung, prostate, skin, throat, everything. So I want to take a little twist.

So after you started with NBC, you were doing a lot of modeling and acting, you decided that you wanted to do celebrity bodyguard. I was approached to, yeah, to help. I think it always started with, might've been Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. I forget. Gina Davis. I fucking, you never have told me that. I fucking love Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn.

You've never told me that. I didn't know you were for Snake Plissken. Yeah, right. I thought it's Blisken. No, Plissken. Blisken. They're aissken. Plissken. Plissken. They're a great couple, by the way.

They're nice people. They seem so cool. They are. Like, they just seem like they're not following society's standards. No. I like that. They're doing their things. They act like regular people, like a mensch.

Kurt's a mensch. She's very sweet. It's like Michael and Catherine. They're regular people. They really are. So, you started with like Michael and Catherine. They're regular people. They really are. So you started with Goldie and Kurt. Right. Gina Davis was another one.

Okay. And so what does that job entail? Imagine someone has no idea. What time are you waking up? What are you doing? Are you waiting outside? Are you five feet away? What's happening?

All of the above. Okay. Walk us through it. You have to plan there. First of all, it depends on are you just bodyguarding them, let's say, for a publicity tour. In that instance, you would do what they call advance work, which is you look at their exits and places for the cars to pull up and places for them to wait, green rooms, and make sure the green rooms are inaccessible by outsiders. It's really quite entailed. If they go into a restaurant, you pick the table.

You do all that stuff in advance. I've had to stand at tables when celebrities are out having dinner. In the middle of the dining room, I've actually had to stand at the table and to keep people away from them, which is embarrassing as hell for me, but that's what you got to do. You look like a moron. So you just stand there while they're eating? You stand there while they're eating. Your back is to them, but you're standing there with your hands folded in front of you, just keeping people away from you. Is it at their request, or is it because people are just going to go crazy?

What are you going to do? Someone comes up to the table, you have to have someone blocking them. People won't stop. Yeah, I guess when you're talking about a Kurt Russell or a Catherine Zeta-Jones, people are just going to go what are you going to do someone comes up to the table you have to have someone blocking them people won't stop yeah i guess when you're talking about like a kurt russell or a katherine zeta jones people like people that won't leave them my favorite line from i heard this from a celebrity they said is when people come up and say i never do this but yeah they all say leave me alone really that one celebrity told me they all come up and they say i never do this but you should just come up and be like, listen, I'm a huge fucking fan. Well, what I find interesting about, I mean, I find a million things interesting about you, but like when you, you know, you see the paparazzi pictures and you're in it, like, not that you don't look like a capable person, but you don't look like the typical big, strong bodyguard.

Like you look like an unassuming, normal guy. You're always put together in a blazer, but obviously you're very capable. Is that by design that celebrities work with someone like because you know you say the other time like some the usually the musicians the uh the rappers a lot of the rock stars they want the image they want a big guy a guy who's 240 250 and that draws attention in its own right it does well that's the idea that's the idea a lot of them don't just having security is it's a it's a feather in your hat it means you're important so so you have a team of bodyguards. Some people really need them. Others don't need them at all. But if the production company is

going to pay me, so if they ask me to protect a person and I do an evaluation on them and I say, first person doesn't need security, it's ridiculous. I'm not going to tell that to Disney or Paramount. I'm just going to say, oh yeah, no worries. We got it. It's just an easier job for us. But some people have death threats and they have stalkers and I've worked on those accounts too. You have to be a lot more diligent. Per usual, Lauren, your skin is looking so glowy. Thanks, babe. So I've been testing out Tatcha and just loving it. I'm sure you guys have heard of their brand. And if you want the details, it's basically this Japanese beauty brand that believes that skincare is self-care.

And I feel like right now we just need more of that. My thing is what I've been doing is I've been making skincare habits. So what I do is I take a few extra minutes a day to do my routine. I'm just making a severe commitment in 2021 to care for myself. I know moms out there can relate because it's so easy to get caught up in caring for others, but it benefits everyone. I feel like everyone agrees with this when we can get a little self care ritual in. That sounds almost like meditation. Yeah, you could use some of that, babe. So why I'm into this brand is that Tatcha looks at skincare as a ritual, which I feel like elevates the whole entire skincare routine. And you guys should know that all Tatcha's formulas are gentle but effective. And what I love is they're made with natural time-tested ingredients. And you guys can all give them a try for yourself with 15% off Tatcha purchase with code SKINNY.

So what do I need to use from Tatcha to look glowy? Okay, so I've experienced a bunch of their products, but my ride or die for sure is the serum stick from Tatcha because it keeps my skin hydrated and pillowy. Like when I press on my skin, it sort of bounces back at me in the best, most hydrated way. So if you're on the go like me, you've got to try their Burrito Origami blotting papers. Whenever I feel too shiny for makeup or a workout, they work like a charm. Another standout is the Dewy Serum. If you're into serum, this is incredible. It's this three-in-one serum that resurfaces, plumps, and locks in moisturizer for smoother, plumper, dewier skin. It immediately boosts hydration

six times, okay? And the Dewy Serum helps replenish components of healthy skin that are lost over time. So don't be surprised when your friends ask why your skin is looking as soft as a baby, like how Michael is asking me right now. All right, adding to the bag now. They have something for everything, you guys. That's why we want to give you 15% off your Tatcha purchase with code SKINNY. That's 15% off your purchase with code SKINNY. Get ready to glow. That's Tatcha.com, code SKINNY. That's T-A-T-C-H-A.com. What is somebody that checks the boxes of needing security? Who are those types of people and why do you say, okay, that person actually needs security? Well, someone who has a stalker is a prime example. And some stalkers, they write a

couple of letters and they don't show up again. They'll scare the celebrity. But other people, they're going to camp outside your door. They're going to send death threats. And celebrities get frightened, as they should, because you don't know who's for real or who's just a nut. What can you do with those people that are making those threats? Well, I mean, I've worked on that. I put people in jail. I put stalkers in jail.

As a matter of fact, I worked out here with the LAPD on a stalker who was stalking one of my clients. And we grabbed them and put them in jail. It was a trial and everything. But you know what? I mean, if they try to hurt the client, if they try to get close to the client, you stop it. You stop it any way you have to. What if they're not hurting the client? What if they're just being obnoxious? Let's take a Kylie Jenner, forner for instance obviously she is someone that needs severe security yeah so what if someone is like just in her bubble in her space and you're helping out how do you get them out of the bubble out of the ether while also maintaining the finesse of the client because you don't want to obviously like lose your mind and pull your gut so what do you what's the finesse there it's using necessary

physical force so So it depends. A lot of people are just going to walk away. If I grab them on the thumb right here and start pressing, they'll go down to their knees. Why do you do that? It's a pressure point. Yeah. Ooh, so next time you fuck with me, wait, what do I do? I just grab the pressure point on his hand? Grab the pressure point, yeah. You put enough pressure in there, you get somebody's attention. They'll go right. I'm going to do that literally every day now.

They'll go right down on one knee and they really will. And then you get the celebrity to move on. And some people can just herd away and say, please, later. Come back later and she'll sign your autograph for you. Especially around the street shooting. When you're on location, you got nuts showing up. Even the ones that are weird are pretty reasonable. Let me ask you this because this will be interesting.

Catherine and Michael Douglas, when you're protecting them, do you see fans coming up to Catherine more than Michael because it's easier to approach a woman? Or because a man is more closed off and people maybe have a different vibe with him? It depends who's got a film going. If Michael's got films going, people are going to go to Michael. If he's got Ant-Man going, whatever he's doing, the fans just go to him. If Catherine has a movie in the hopper and we're doing the press and they're together,

people gravitate toward her. As far as when they're just alone in a restaurant and stuff, they keep a low profile. People don't normally bother them. But when you're promoting a movie, you've got to be on the public eye. You've got to be on Good Morning America and Conan O'Brien or whoever the talk shows are. The stalkers and the paparazzi and the fans, they seem to always know where they're going to be. So they show up. But the vast majority of people are civil even even when they're a little bit aggressive you can you can usher them off which is being nice they please you know come come back later what's the line with paparazzi like there's obviously got to be like a kind of give-take relationship there if you're someone like a

captain jones or a michael douglas for for that long you obviously develop some kind of a rapport yeah in new york they're they're more civilized than other places and part of that with me is because i i treat them like human beings and i i talk to them and i ask them please if you can photograph her down at the hotel she's going to come out of the limo in full makeup you're going to get the best shots of your life and a lot of them will just say oh okay thanks and a lot of times, like, Catherine's PR person would say that to me. Can you get these characters down in front of the Regency Hotel and not here at her apartment? Because she wants to make the entrance, and as they should.

It's a film. We've got a film premiere. We've got lights flying around. And again, most of them listen. We've had a few overly aggressive guys. One guy in particular I'm thinking about. But you just block them. And if they're not cooperative, you make sure they don't get the shot.

Because the celebrities like Michael, they're very easy. They're very easy. Paparazzi in your shots, they'll stop and smile. They're nice people, basically. So yeah, we don't get too many that are too aggressive. And it's like from being a cop, you learn it when you can see somebody in the crowd that doesn't look right. I've had paparazzis warn me about psychos in their ranks.

They'll say, you know, watch this guy in the back. We have the blonde hair, something wrong with him. So the paparazzis are helping me out. And a lot of this is because I treat them as human beings. I don't want to be their friend because they're bothering my client. Does it ever get sticky with a client where you're around them so much and you're in their space and you're privy to all these private conversations that you have to keep your mouth shut about? Does it ever get where it like crosses a line where it's like work and personal?

I've always just shut down to me like Michael and Captain Douglas, Michael Douglas, Captain Zeta-Jones. I know them as parents. I know them as a mom and dad and their kids. I don't really know them. I mean, they're movie stars, but that happens to be their job. No, I just, I know them as parents. And when they're having family discussions, if I can, I walk away. Well, you know, I don't want to hear. I got my own family problems. So, but they're a family. And I mean, if you're in the security world, you learn to shut down and not be listening. I don't want to hear anything. You wrote a book on this too, if you're in the security world you learn to shut down and not be listening

i don't want to hear anything you know you wrote a book on this too if people want to read it um confessions of a celebrity bodyguard yeah yeah it's my latest novel yeah it's a juicy book too yeah and it's available on amazon or barnes and noble i don't know amazon i guess has it when the stores these things they're like produce books get into stores they're there for about six weeks and then they're gone so if you want to get them you got to order them or go on thank god thank god for amazon everyone orders on amazon yes or support a small bookstore of course yes you can but with what's going on in the world amazon is very quick and easy kindle's the way to go yeah i mean i'm a kindle guy so you sent me your manuscript of your latest that. That's a memoir. That's a true story. And that is coming out, and that is about your relationship.

Or there's the theme, one theme in it, is your relationship with Donald Trump, Marla Maples. Can you tell the audience some context so they can understand? First of all, it's not sold yet. A publisher hasn't picked it up. I have a good agent, a guy named David Vigliano in New York. You met David. Yeah, he's a good agent. And he has the book now and he's pushing it around.

We're hoping for an auction, but you never know. It's about the 80s, Studio 54, my relationship. Donald, we were socializing then. We were friends. We dated three of the same girls. That kind of formed a bond between us. And we were both members of Cafe Society. I was out every night.

Donald's out every night. We'd run into each other everywhere. He doesn't drink any alcohol, huh? He doesn't drink anything, and he doesn't smoke pot or anything like that. His older brother, Fred, had a booze problem. So Donald always said, he said, if I start this, I'm an addict. He said, I'm an addictive personality. So, yeah, so he never did.

I don't think he should anyway, so. He's good. He's aggressive the way he is. He was more aggressive. My God. So the stories about my life with people like Donald and Marla Maples was my girlfriend. She lived with me. We were engaged for a short time.

And then Donald started dating her after me. And she mentioned to Donald that, oh, I'm dating this cop, Tom Fitzsimmons. And Donald picked up the phone right away and called me up. And then we started running around a lot, a group of us. We got Atlantic City almost every weekend.

Everything was on Donald. He was a very generous guy. So he'd take a crew of us out in his helicopters. He had several. And he'd fly us all out there for the fights to see the Rolling Stones, to see any major sporting event or celebrity that was performing at his casinos. He'd fly us all out. There was a group of us. They called us Trumpettes. What I find so crazy about Donald

Trump pre-presidency and post is when you hear about his life pre, it's like women, good family, billionaire, helicopters, all this stuff. If you go back and watch The Apprentice, he was actually beloved by a lot of the American public. People really liked him. And I always think to myself, why when you have all of that, do you continue? What do you think it is in him that makes him go and take on all the heat that he did as president and do everything? Because now obviously it's a much different story. When you look at someone's life like that, on the obviously, it's a much different story. Oh, yeah. When you look at someone's life like that, on the surface, it seems like he kind of had it all before. He did have it all before.

But he's an aggressive guy. He's just one of those who's going to do the best he can. Again, I had a lot of fun with him. We were socializing. I never did business with Donald. He was a lot of laughs. We were out every night. Again, in Studio 54, Magique, Regines, Le Cirque, Le Coq, 21, Lutece. We were everywhere. It was a blast.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people have changed their attitude. I mean, if you think about Stern, like he used to go on Stern all the time and they had a blast. And I think that attitude's changed and it's crazy what happens to people. But yeah, I think it's interesting to look at now, sure, half the country is still absolutely crazy about him. The other half, obviously, not so much. But like before, you know, it seemed like he was on top of the world without having to take on the headache of all the stuff he's had to take on. Yeah, no, he was. I think he did it for the

right reasons. I used to talk politics with him back in the 80s. Matter of fact, there's an article someplace on the internet that says that I'm the guy that I'm the first person to talk to Donald about running for president. I don't remember that, but some author said I did, and I'm the guy, that I'm the first person to talk to Donald about running for president. I don't remember that, but some author said I did. I doubt I did, but it makes a good story.

He thought about running a few times, right? A few times, yeah. But I think he did it for the right reasons, and I think he tried his best to be the best president he could. It didn't work out. It didn't work out. But I think his motives were pure. He just wants to be the best at everything, whatever it it takes which i guess whatever it takes isn't good but he just wants to be the best at everything he does but he's out now politics is a dirty business oh man i can't

imagine going into like for any reason going into politics he was uniquely qualified because the press has been after him since the 70s and 80s. The IRS probably done 100 investigations on this guy. And he's clean. He's got a vast empire. Casinos are tough, especially because there were a different kind of mobs involved in the casinos back then, the Japanese and the Russians. But he was a clean guy. I mean, he wouldn't do anything illegal.

I've been around for some things. That guy, I heard people say, we can do this for you. We can do that. Donald said, nope. Nope. I don't do any of that stuff. Let me ask you about his personality. His personality is obviously very aggressive.

Like whatever side you're on. He's an aggressive personality. Yeah. Was he aggressive like that when you were friends with him? Yeah. Yeah. We weren't discussing world politics or geopolitics. We were having fun.

We were deciding what stake we're going to get tonight or what show we're going to see, who's in Atlantic City. So it was all very social. So what are some qualities that you remember about him? Like if someone said describe him pre-presidency, what are the qualities? Well, he's very generous. We're all these parties and the casinos and everything. He picked up all those checks.

And man, I'll tell you, they're thousands and thousands of dollars. And I'm not talking once. I'm talking many, many times. So he was very good to his friend and to his trumpets, the gang. He worked all the time. He was one of these guys that wasn't easy being one-on-one with him and just hanging because he always had the phones going. There was always somebody waiting for him. There's always a meeting going on. The fact that he was always a workaholic, I remembered that about him. I don't know if that's a positive thing, but of course he liked the ladies, which is nothing wrong with that. We had that in common. But even when we socialized, like there's another guy I knew, a royalty guy named Malcolm Forbes Sr. And he had a yacht called the Highlander over on, used to keep it on the East River. And Donald and I would go to those

parties. Or actually I'd run into Donald there. I'm not so sure I went with him, but I'd see him there. And he was always doing business. I was there to meet girls and get drunk and, you know, have a great old time. But he was there to do business. He was focused. And he'd be, Malcolm would introduce him around and he was at a network. And I was, that's not what I was doing.

Were you surprised with the presidency thing? What i was doing were you surprised with the presidency thing what part now were you surprised with the presidency uh that he won yeah no were you surprised when he wanted to run when you heard this no because he was he almost threw his hat and ring back in 2009 or 10 or 8 or i forget he he almost no i didn't really i don't i don't think that he thought he'd win i think he wants to be a kingmaker. I think he was totally surprised when he actually won. I didn't think he ever thought he would. A lot of people have that stance where it's like he ran and he thought he'd get a lot of publicity and be out there, but didn't think he would actually get the nomination and let it go on to win.

And he'd throw his weight behind a candidate and the candidate would win and Donald would be the kingmaker. And lo and behold, he wins. So, uh-oh, be careful what you wish for. You write in the memoir that he was obsessed with Marla Maples sexually. Yeah. Like just her body and the whole thing. She was a very sexy girl. So, do you think that he actually cheated on Ivanka with her or was this a separate relationship that he had?

Ivana. It's public record that he was seeing Marlo while he was married. I read her book before this episode, Ivana's book. Ivana. Yeah. That's the wife. Yeah. And she said, you can tell she's under NDA.

She can't say much. He must have made her sign something. Oh, totally. Yeah. She's fucking lock-lipped. Yeah. But in the book, she says that they were in Aspen and they were in line at the the place at the top ajax oh no no i know the top and they were in line and she said she saw a woman marla maples

and something about the woman made her and ivana was tipped off okay she didn't write about that no she was tipped off she has that accent so she So she called Marla Moolah. So I believe that, and I write about this in the memoir, by the way. I write at this scene in detail. I think Marla, I think she approached Ivana first. I'm not sure. But then Ivana went at her. And then stay away from my husband thing, you know. And Marla's saying, well, do you love him?

Do you love him? That was really the beginning of the tabloid wars. And boy, that's just, again, it's in the memoir. It's unbelievable what happened. No one in a million years thought that simple divorce from some rich guy in New York was going to make the front page of the newspapers. My God, the news cycle must have been real slow because they were the front page of the news cycles for four months, five months.

Every paper, even the Times, everybody was in on it. And then she went into hiding. And of course, I was hiding her for Donald part of the time. And they were banging on my door. They were following me around. They're trying to follow me around. It's not easy to follow a cop around. So they were trying. And of course, I knew where she was the whole time. Yeah, it was just wild. But it started with that confrontation on the slopes of Aspen. Absolutely. I'll tell you one thing about Donald Trump, whether you love him or hate him. He has to probably go down as one of the greatest marketers of all time.

Yeah. When you start to think about people in terms of getting attention, it's not just been since he's been president. He's been able to get attention his entire career somewhere or another, whether it's divorce or buildings or hotels or casinos or running for president like the guy knows how to get attention like there there should be courses and studies on how he's been able to do that he's the most known person in the in the known world it's like i'm not going to say he invented branding but boy he took it to a new level the trump name he's very kanye like the

way that they sporadically tweet like how kanye will just tweet something yeah like they t michael's right they know how to get attention yeah whether it's good or bad he just knows how to get attention yeah if you were to have a conversation with donald trump right here on air what would you say hey donald what's up so normal conversation oh sure i would first thing i'd say is I feel so sorry about his brother who passed away just recently. Robert, a really nice guy, really sweet guy, Robert. He used to go to the tennis matches with Robert at the US Open and watch. He was different than Donald.

He was a little bit more of a regular guy. He liked to drink a couple of beers and stuff like that. So that's the first thing I'd say. Other than that, I'd say, what's up? What are you going to do now? What do you think he's going to do now? I don't know. I mean, I'm thinking he might try to make a comeback.

He doesn't like to lose. I can't see him retiring. He's just, he's all energy. Not wired to retire, yeah. Yeah, he's just, he's got too much going on in his head. I can't see him sitting down and just playing golf for the rest of his life. He'll get into something else.

And he does have a power platform now. So being an ex-president, I know the Secret Service is going to cramp his lifestyle for sure. Because he's got Secret Service protection now forever. Do you think he'll go back to New York? I don't. I think Mar-a-Lago. You do? Mar-a-Lago, yeah.

That's what I think too. Yeah, New York is kind of, it's too confining now, especially the whole city shut down so one of the my favorite restaurants and his we used to go together was 21 it's just a few blocks from his house still open it's closed and i think it'll come back at some point but is it closed because of covid or is it closed covid like it's why we're moving to texas right like la shut down new york shut down. You start to look and say high taxes, high costs, like biggest living or largest living expenses in the country, but everything's shut and you're crammed together. Why stay? Yeah. I feel the same way. Can you share with our audience the title of your memoir or are you waiting? Oh, it's called Not My Circus, Not My Monkey.

Genius. Love it. If our audience had to start with one book by you that's out on amazon i personally would say start with confessions of a catholic cop i think you wrote it when we were living together yeah i was writing that okay that's exactly what i was writing yeah okay you would wake up i'll never forget this it's very inspiring actually you would wake up every single morning i'm not sure exactly the time maybe maybe 5.30, 6? 5. And he would start writing. And when I would come down for school, every single day, he was in the room, I remember where you're facing, writing on your computer. Very disciplined.

To be a writer, it's not a fucking joke. Yeah. No, it's not. It's hard work. Yeah. But I like the process. But the second book, Confessions of a Suicidal Policewoman, that's a great ride. Same characters. But the last one, the new one, is Confessions of a Celebrity Bodyguard.

And that's got a lot of this bodyguard stuff in it. I will share each of these books with a swipe up too on the Skinny Confidential Podcast Instagram. Great. And then maybe you can come on the blog and we can do a little interview there too. Oh, sure. I'd love to. Knowing Lauren now and obviously being with her mom for so long, when you see Lauren as an adult, do you see anything that they had in common? Is there things you recognize in Lauren that

maybe you recognize in Wendy or no? They're both very bright. Your mom is extremely bright. That's nice. Yes. And your mom is also an alpha, as you are. Big reader. Big reader. Big reader. And she took shit from no one your mom was was was uh so apple didn't fall too far from the tree yeah yeah but see i i grew up with that my my mom was an alpha and took shit from no one and i have three sisters that are alphas so

it's a perfect match yeah you liked it i feel like you guys were very uh matched simpatico oh absolutely yeah yeah simpatico. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we got along. We just got along. I couldn't be with someone as a woman that's not an alpha. I know I would run too far, but I need somebody to check me. Yeah, when he starts complaining that he's hungry, I'm like, fucking handle it. That's right.

Go make something. Go figure it out. Is your arm broken? Oh, I know. Is your arm broken? Is your mouth broken? Tom, you can come back anytime thank you this interview to me is so interesting because there's so many different things you've done in

your life that you can go so many different directions i cannot wait to read your memoir in print in a book right now i'm reading it on my book app the the document that you sent me but i can't wait to read it in book i know it it's going to be in book. Great. And for everyone who wants to find you or find your book, pimp yourself out. Okay. My agent is David Bigliano. Okay. And he's got the book.

He's a good agent too. So that's, that's the man they should call. And what about you? Like if they want to follow you on Instagram and stuff. I have an Instagram account. I'm on, I'm on Facebook.

Okay. Not that big on social media. I'm too busy writing to tell you the truth. That's good. And all your books are on Amazon. Just search Thomas. I'm on Facebook. Okay. I'm not that big on social media. I'm too busy writing to tell you the truth. That's good. And all your books are on Amazon. Just search Thomas Fitzsimmons. Everything's on Amazon. Thomas Fitzsimmons.

We'll leave it in the show notes. Tom. Beautiful. Thanks for coming on. Thank you, babe. Thanks for coming on, buddy. Okay, Michael. Thanks.

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