The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Heather Gay - RHOSLC On Growing Up Mormon, Raw Truths, Life After Divorce, & How To Persevere When Life Throws You Curveballs

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

#351: On today's episode we are joined by Real House Wife Of Salt Lake City, Heather Gay. Heather is one of the break out stars on the new housewives franchise and on this episode we get a deeper look into Heather's life before the show. We also discuss life after divorce and how to navigate life when it throws you curveballs. This episode goes all over the place with a great guest that doesn't fail to deliver! To connect with Heather Gay click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 25,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for free. That’s right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by Phexxi Phexxi® (lactic acid, citric acid, and potassium bitartrate) Vaginal Gel 1.8%, 1%, 0.4% is a hormone-free, prescription birth control used only before sex. Phexxi works to maintain the vaginal pH level to prevent pregnancy and you only use it when you need it! Be sure to tell your healthcare provider if you have a recent history of 3 or more UTIs per year. Learn more, including all risks at Phexxi.com Produced by Dear Media 

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No one has time for that. The other day, I had my Hot Mess Ice Roller out, and I fell asleep, woke up, and it was still cold. I'm not even joking you. You're going to be so obsessed with every single pink detail. Of course, I also included an ice queen facial oil for you, which is this cooling, amazing oil with a little bit of menthol in it, blueberry seed oil, pomegranate seed oil and raspberry seed oil. All of it has tons of antioxidants, vitamins, and most importantly, it fights inflammation. You can use them together. To check out the new product line, go to shopskinnyconfidential.com. I hope you guys fucking love it. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial

entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. It happens a lot. I feel like that's been most rewarding for me and that I've really connected with are just marginalized Mormons. Like a lot of women who are divorced Mormons and that story, just they feel it. I talk about that I never really considered having a career. I didn't even consider it. I never considered anything other than being a mom and having kids. And so that's why when that option of a nuclear family is taken away from you, I didn't have any other

path to plot. Back again with a lot of energy. Lauren just dropped the ball on this intro and said, Michael, you got to pick it up because she's low energy. And I came in with the thunder. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Heather Gay. And this episode, we go all over the place. Heather goes all over the place. She is so real and raw and cool. I got all the juice now on the Housewives of Salt Lake City. You love juice on Housewives. I had Meredith first, now I have Heather. Who else wants to take a run at this show? Take a gander. Who else wants to pop on here? Honestly, Michael's

one of those guys that when I'm watching Housewives, because it's like my experience to just be mindless and not think about anything. Your peripheral is on the television. I got a new favorite thing that I like to do. I like to jump into the reunion before I watch the season. We just watched Potomac and he was trying to be like, oh, I don't know about Potomac. And I said, Andy Cohen said, don't sleep on Potomac. And little did I know in five seconds, he would be hooked. You were eating popcorn, drinking tea. No, I didn't know about it because I started with the reunion and I couldn't decipher what the hell was going on and who was talking about what.

Now you're obsessed. Then I went back and now I get it. What's your favorite housewives? Well, I got to say Salt Lake City because I've had the most interactions, right? And also, you know, we've had the most fun. And I have a special place in my heart because, you know, we went out to dinner with Meredith and Seth and that was fun. And Heather came in, we had a lot of good times out there and it just, you know, got to know those are my girls. Heather's a cool chick. Meredith's a cool chick. They're both amazing. I have always said I'm a huge Housewives fan and Salt Lake City is

a banger. Like I said, though, the other Housewives, they can take a run at the show if they want. Maybe they'll move up in my book. I think we should go to Potomac because- Not that they care. It's not a competition for my approval, obviously. Honestly, though, I think you've watched Housewives more this year than any other show. Well, yeah. And you know, it's so funny. Lauren has this whole idea that we're not going to have a TV in our bedroom, but we have it in there temporarily as we're getting the house together. And you watch the TV way more. You're the culprit, not me. I don't really even watch TV. Here's the update on the house. So we obviously have moved to Austin and our house is basically

empty because furniture takes so long. So we're living on blow up couches. I can't believe these furniture companies didn't make us the center of the universe. I know. And so the bed's on the floor. And what I told Michael is I want to make sure our room is really feng shui-ed. I want the room to be so peaceful. I'm sleeping on the wrong side of the bed if you want to feng shui because I'm supposed to the room to be so peaceful. I'm sleeping on the wrong side of the bed if you want to feng shui because I'm supposed to sleep on the other side, but that's just me. You can do that tonight. But the point is that I don't want a TV in the room. I don't want any electronics. I don't want your big headphones. Says the person who turns on the TV

full brightness with housewives every single night. Only to watch housewives, but I'm not going to watch it anymore when we remove the TV. I can't wait to see it. I'm going to watch it downstairs, but not in our room. Anyways, with that, let's introduce Heather. Who is Heather Gay? Heather Gay was a devout Mormon from birth. She was married to Mormon royalty for 11 years, but she distanced herself from the church after her divorce. A self-proclaimed good Mormon gone bad. Love that.

She now considers herself Mormon-ish as she plays by her own rules. A devoted mom to three daughters, she also owns an amazing med spa. It's called Beauty Lab and Laser, where the ladies often frequent on the show. I'm sure you've seen them there. And as she embarks on her next chapter of her life, Heather is on the journey of self-discovery as she finds her voice and looks for love again. I can tell you, meeting her in person, she is so, so cool. She's down to earth. She's real. She shares her story about the Mormon church in such an authentic, open way. She's beautiful. Her skin was glowing. And next time I go there, I kind of want to go get Botox at Beauty Lab and Laser. Let's welcome Heather Gay to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her.

So I want to go back way, way, way before Housewives. Okay. Before all of this came up. Like I want to go back to your childhood. Oh, awesome. Like way back. Just crack it wide open. Did you grow up Mormon? Did you grow up in Utah? Or is this something that happened after you got married? No, I grew. I didn't grow up in Utah, but I grew up very, very, I don't want to say fundamentalist, but just very Mormon. Uber Mormon in Colorado.

Like when you say very Mormon, what does that mean? Because I was talking, I don't, does it mean you can't drink? You can't have coffee? What does that mean? Yeah. So very Mormon't drink, you can't have coffee. What does that mean? Yeah. So very Mormon means my mom and dad were married in the temple. They wore sacred religious garments that represented their fidelity to the faith. They did not drink coffee, tea. It was not in our home. They did not drink alcohol. We went to church every Sunday for three hours, sometimes a meeting. And then we had like a weekly youth meeting.

We stayed home on Monday nights as a family, didn't have any activities. We just, Monday nights were like sacred family home evenings, which is like kind of a Mormon thing. And then, you know, we were all baptized. We all attended church. How many kids? Six kids. Wow. And I'm the middle daughter of three girls and three boys. Wow. so I'm like a middle middle that's what I like to say so when you when you were young did you ever have a moment where you were like this is this is there's something weird with this or were you always like loving it always

loving it all committed like and are you committed today no no no so. Okay. So that's kind of what- I'm a non-practicing Mormon. That's my new label. And what does that mean? That means it's kind of a new term because Mormonism is based on behavior. And so in order to be Mormon, you have to practice it. But for me, my whole identity was so steeped in the faith and in the culture of it that just because I'm not practicing doesn't really remove it from me.

A hundred percent. And by the way- How could it? Because it's your whole, basically your whole life. Who's like defining all this? Why can't you define yourself? There's not really a category for non-practicing Mormons. It would be like, this is an extreme, but sometimes extremes, polarizing examples can

help it like DM me your complaints, active Mormons. So Mormons hear me talking. They're just like, she's crazy, you know, but I'm trying to break it down simply. It would be like saying I'm a non-practicing Quaker or Mennonite or Amish person. So like I have electricity and I don't wear the clothes and I don't drive a car and I don't do those things, but I'm Amish. Okay. But would you live in the Amish town or are you not in the Amish town? I mean, isn't it kind of hard to live in the Amish town? I don't think that would work.

You just got like your music blaring and your ring light, you know, everybody else is just like, get her out. So here's my question. When you're young and you don't have tea and coffee and alcohol in your home, do you go seek that out when you're young or were you not into that until a certain age? I wasn't into that until a certain age. I mean, I had curiosities for sure, but we felt superior. We felt like we had the truth. We were what every family wanted to be. We were the only true church on the face of the earth that we were blessed and like a chosen people. And you're really steeped in the superiority of it. And so you feel a strong

allegiance to toe the line and represent the faith, but also an even stronger allegiance to respect and honor your parents and their wishes and their expectations of you. So when did that facade crack for you? When did you start to see things that you weren't liking? I'm going to say totally honestly, I never really considered if I liked it or not because I was just a blind Fidel. You know what I mean? Just total loyalty. I could do the mental gymnastics to work around anything. Well, it makes sense because that's all you know, if you're born into it, that's, and that's all, you know, that's the norm, right? Like, so from, from us, we're like, this is crazy. I mean,

I would last one second and they would kick me, they would kick me right the fuck out. I would, no chance, but, but I think if you're born into it and then it's normal, right? Like, cause that's all, you know? Yeah. And it's, and it's good. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. You have to keep that in mind. It works. We have this beautiful family and love at home. And my dad is engaged in a provider and a patriarch. And my mom is a nurturer and a caretaker and a homemaker.

And they have healthy children and money. So the principles do work. It sounds like there's a lot of i mean there's a lot of obviously good things that come with it right family mostly good yeah huh that's that's interesting you are right though there is a lot of good things that come with it i think it probably just starts to fall off the rails once you get you know if you get into other communities that aren't practicing and you start to be like oh why these people are doing this and they seem to be okay and then you start tampering and then it's like you're almost excommunicated in a way, right?

Yeah. I mean, the process for me was much more different. The reason I paused for so long saying when did I start to fracture from it is because it wasn't until I got divorced. So your whole marriage, you were fully practicingormon i really want to talk about that because it sounds like on the show from what you've told us that you were doing all the things you thought you were supposed to be doing and then like maybe you kind of felt like when you got out of the marriage your eyes became more open it sounds like yes that's actually a scripture but yes my eyes became open and I could see. It's, I think, I don't know.

So did you meet your husband in the Mormon church? Yeah, fully. And what I was going to point out, just to bring it back to what Michael was saying about different communities, you start to see different ways of life. We always saw different ways of life because we were living amongst normal people. And I was in Colorado even, so it was even less homogeneously Mormon. And I think you don't even start to consider other ways of life until the perfect image breaks. So when it's working, you don't question it. When you're successful, your children are healthy, happy, and safe, there's no aberration in the plan. And you've seen generation after generation kind of churn out, you know, young future presidents of America. You don't question it because it works. And then you get divorced. You have a gay child. You have a transgender child. Your husband cheats on you.

You lose a spouse. Like there's so many ways that the plan can get fractured. And then it's almost unresolvable within the confines of the faith. That makes total sense. I've never heard anyone explain it that way. It sounds like there's pros and there's cons, which there's pros and cons of everything though. Yeah, but you have to consider what the cons are. And I think that for a long time, we always tried to kind of look the other way with a lot of the like really polarizing issues of like abortion gay rights gay marriage like we're a very like evangelical christian church and so they have a hard line on all of those principles much harder line than other faiths because we have like

recommend we have to like answer questions and like meet certain standards in order to there's no gray area there's no gray area it's black or white yeah you have to answer questions and meet certain standards in order to... There's no gray area. There's no gray area. It's black or white. You have to answer a set of questions from two different men, local leaders in your community, every two years in order to attend the temple, which is where active Mormons truly worship. Do you think, looking back, that there was a lot of people in the church that were doing things that they weren't, quote supposed to be doing. Like for instance, maybe there's someone that was a higher

up in the church that was gay, or maybe there's someone that's drinking coffee and alcohol at night and taking pills. Like, do you look back and see that or? Yeah, because I became one of them. What do you mean? I mean, I became someone that was like actively Mormon, but then it was like going out and partying with my friends once I got separated and divorced. So how was that like? It's messed up. Yeah. And that's what kind of forced me to like take a hard line because I was doing that

game of there's more good than bad. There's so many wonderful things. But I was starting to, my kids were getting older. I was starting to have to like flub around and like kind of PR everything with the church. Like, what do you mean Fred and Shane can't get married? You know, because they know they're Mormon. They know they're Richard missionaries, but they also know they're gay. You know what I mean?

Like kind of that kind of concept. And like, you have to be like, Heavenly Father will work it out. He loves all this. You know what I mean? But we know fundamentally they can't go to the temple and they can't be Mormon. That's the wild thing to me. That's what I don't understand. If you're born into a Mormon family and you're gay, you can't go work it out with the church because you're gay. It's almost like a catch-22. It's a catch-22. So what do you do? Recently, we've tried to kind of evolve our

social guidelines or principles with the church. And like we say, we love you to kind of evolve our social guidelines, our principles with the church. And like we say, we love you. We accept you. We don't believe that God made you this way, but we understand that you're dealing with it on earth. Got it. So the challenge, a struggle.

But if you, you can be gay and be loved and embraced and you can be open about being gay, but you cannot have gay sex and you cannot be in a committed relationship with the same sex partner. Wow. So it's just like, to say it bluntly, it's just not a realistic expectation in a modern world because if you're gay and you're with a partner, you're going to have sex, you're going to want to get married and that's normal and it shouldn't be. And why would you ask a lay person, not a not a clergyman not someone that's like to assume a life of celibacy and self-denial for an institution or for like that's like the biggest part of life you know like who you fall in love with and how you i think i mean

i'm gonna cry because i'm like a huge romantic it's crazy you wouldn't want to ever say to someone like this is what god wanted you to live like within these confines with kind of obviously like shame and doubt. And because if there's no way to be who you are and be Mormon, it's a catch-22. Let's talk about a woman's journey from pregnancy to postpartum. Mine was difficult. I'm not going to lie. I had a lot of postpartum depression and anxiety.

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like Ritual because when you go to their website, everything is so streamlined. It's so clear on where everything comes from. It's researched, science-backed. I'm all about it. And this particular postnatal is obviously vegan-friendly, non-GMO, sugar-free, free of major allergens, and formulated without artificial coloring or preservatives, which we love. One thing that I think made a difference in my recovery is it has iron and iodine in it. And I was having a thyroid issue and the iodine really helped. So I would highly recommend looking into it if you are postpartum. We deserve to know what we're putting in our bodies and why. And that's why Ritual is amazing because it's backed by science. A mother doesn't always put her needs first. I know I

didn't, but Ritual does. And that's why they're offering all Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, 10% off during your first three months. You're going to visit ritual.com slash skinny to start a central postnatal today. I should also mention that I took their prenatal, so I was pregnant. I love this brand. Huge fan. Enjoy. That's what has always intrigued me about it because I grew up in a family where I could have said, I have a dick coming out of my ear and I want to do this. And it's the most random job on the planet. And my parents would have been like, just be the best version of yourself in that area, whatever that is. Do you think your dad would have been cool if he was saying your dick came out of your ear? I don't know. I'm just trying to... I want to party with your parents.

My parents are fun. My dad's fun. You'd like my dad. Brad is fun. That's for sure. But what I mean is it's like an extreme example, like you were saying earlier. I'm giving an extreme example. So when I look at Mormon culture, it's kind of like suppressing who you are as a person. It's like, don't do or be anything that steps outside of the square. 100%. One thing that Lauren and I talk about a lot, and honestly, the benefit of doing this show, it's like we've had so many conversations with so many different kinds of people with so many

different sets of backgrounds. It's like what we work on all the time now is trying to see the world from not just our perspective, but from somebody else's. And I think this is hard for us to relate to because we're both so outspoken and we've done a bunch of wild things. We just would never be able to, I guess, suppress ourselves. But speaking to you, understanding if you're born into that culture and that way of life, you can understand why somebody would be, I don't want to say caught up because that's why it was fun with Schwartzy and Katie because I like literally was like putting him on like, I just am, misogyny's bred in me. I like deify men. I like a guy can do something and a girl can do something and be like, he's amazing.

So amazing. You know, like I just, I'm all messed up. And like, I did some stupid thing to Schwartzy like, oh, you get the first chip because I don't know you know I was just like kissing his ass I was totally in love with him and Katie like I was like presenting him the first trip and Katie just like reached over like grabbed one I was just like and I couldn't even believe it like I was so enamored with like an equal emotionally intimate balanced fair relationship yeah I do not have a lot of great examples of those in my life. Well, because the men in Mormon culture are put on a pedestal, right? They're the patriarchs.

Absolutely. What a different experience that would be for you. Lauren, we're becoming Mormon, actually. It works for the men. Actually, Lauren, now that I'm thinking about it. Have I ever in our whole entire 800 years of knowing you given you the first chip? Do you know what she said today? She's like, because today happens to be my birthday, which is no big deal. Happy birthday. Oh, you're used to the no big deal that you mentioned.

The reason I bring it up. It's my birthday. No big deal. Moving on. Listen, I mean, we don't know. Thank you. I appreciate it. The reason I bring it up, though, is because Lauren looked at me and she goes, today you

can do whatever you want. And I was like, what happened here? I was like, oh. Yeah, that's a plot twist. It's one day a year. I guarantee there's going to be some chores thrown at me. Inevitably, whatever you want to do will be what she wants to do because happy wife, happy life. I understand what you're saying in a way. Because so another thing, my grandma is full Japanese. You wouldn't know that about me just if you see me. But I grew up, I had two younger sisters. And in the house,

me and my dad could do no wrong in her eyes. We do whatever we want. If I left clothes on the floor or made a mess or got in a fight, it was never my fault. My sisters could move a pencil in the wrong area of their place. I'd be like, what are you guys doing? Yeah. You're out of line. Yeah. And I think in Japanese culture too, they put the men on a pedestal. You understand it intimately. I mean, that's really what it is.

And it's not something you really want to blow up because it works. Yeah, I was trying to convince Lauren to spend a lot more time with my grandma. Or become Mormon.

I mean, of course. Because there's a lot of like nobility in it and martyrdom. And that really, I think, I just think it's a perfect storm. I think it's a perfect, you know what I mean, way to, because basically if you want, if you're feeling suppressed or you're feeling like you want to do things that are not within

the confines of the faith, that because it's religious, that comes from the devil. You know what I mean? So it's just like, well, of course, whatever strains I'm feeling in my heart aren't my own self-divination. It's the devil trying to lead me astray from this perfect life of happiness and eternal joy. I think that you're so smart though, because a lot of people would have gotten out of Mormonism and talked so much shit and said all these negative things. And why I think you're so smart is because there's this stoic quote, I forgot who it's by,

but it's like, nothing is good or bad. And I think we've gotten to this point in our culture where we have to label things as good or bad. But what you've done is you've looked at this and you've said, well, there's good things in it and I'm going to take the good things and still use the good things. I think it doesn't have to be all bad. Yeah. But it does kind of feel like a throw the baby out with the bathwater type of deal. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's totally understandable. I can see that. It must be like, but I could tell during that, we watched that reunion show and there was a point when I think Whitney and her husband were talking about how they were, I don't think. And I'm just like crying. Yeah. And I could see like it was a painful thing probably because you get so ingrained in this community and then all of a sudden you're like almost in a way can't be part of the community, right?

Like that's got to be difficult. Exactly what it is. Because I was ingrained in this community and then I got divorced. And there are divorced Mormons every day, but you have to like ideally live a life of celibacy or get remarried. Those are your two options if you're a divorced Mormon. Wait, you can't go fuck whoever you want? No, well, you can. And then you can either lie and lie about it

and no one will know or you can. And if you tell people, you will be excommunicated. So does that come with shame? Yeah. Like a lot and also kind of this overwhelming like burden. You have three babies, you're divorced, you're like I have to meet a man, date him, not have sex with him, then marry him, have sex with him and move him in at that point into my home with my children and build a life if i want to be a mormon i mean i gotta see the penis and what i'm working with and like is i mean what are what are the i mean i gotta look at the whole thing that's what i was facing i mean that's it was astonishing me and i i got married as a virgin no way well yeah

you're not allowed to have sex either i I mean, it's not like they say no coffee, no tea, no booze. Fuck anybody you want. It's this new faith. It'd be a lot cooler if they did.

Yeah, it's called straight edge and you know, it'd be a lot cooler I mean, this is really surprising for me because when I was 12,

I gave Michael a blowjob on the tennis court of our high school. I mean, this is a little surprising. Blowjobs are fine. Blowjobs are fine. Oh, blowjobs are fine. Oh, blowjobs are fine.

Yeah, blowjobs are fine. We called it the green belt in our neighborhood, but yes. Blowjobs are okay. They're not technically, but you know what I mean? It's just that purity culture of like the boys can mess around or whatever, but they have the same standards, but we just look the other way because it's the culture. And the girls, you know,

you don't want to be like a licked Reese's peanut butter cup or you don't want to be a used shoe or a stretched out sock. I was a licked peanut butter cup. I was probably a used shoe myself. I want to go back and I want to talk about how you met your husband. You said you were a version and sort of- A version of a virgin. A version of a virgin.

She can't even say the word. A virgin. I've mispronounced words a lot. I get in trouble. When it says virgin, she just goes up in flames. I know. She's version of a virgin. A version of a virgin. She can't even say the word. Like a virgin. I've mispronounced words a lot. I get in trouble. When it says virgin, she just goes up in flames. I know. She's just like a virgin.

A what? Like air quotes. I can't even say it. A virgin. That's what I want my daughters to be like. What? I want them to have that type of healthy, normal, shame-free attitude

about their sex life. Tell them to hang out with me for a few days. I'm going to. They can totally hang out with me for a few days. I'm going to. You can totally hang out with me for a few days. I'm going to. When you meet your husband, is this at school? Is it at the church? And then how did sort of your marriage go? Was it a healthy, happy marriage before you guys got divorced? Looking back, what was that journey like? I mean, I think if it was a healthy, happy marriage, it wouldn't have ended in divorce. But was it ever at a point healthy and happy? I would say definitely happy. I think healthy. I have a different version of what

healthy is now. And what was the version before? So basically I went to BYU, which is a Mormon university. There's no drinking on campus. There's no sleeping with anyone on campus. There's not anywhere. You can't drink anywhere. You can go off campus and drink. You just can't. And so it was a pretty tame college experience. And then I went on a mission as a Mormon missionary to do charitable missionary work and proselytize to the people of France. And I did that for a year and a half. And then I came home. I'm out of breath. Hold on. It's such an emotional story.

So you go away for a year and a half away from your family. And from my standpoint, it seems that you pass out brochures to everyone. Is that what you're doing? Well, that's the Jehovah's Witnesses, but we do. A year and a half away from family. I'm Mormon. I'm thinking maybe this doesn't sound as bad as... You get two years because you're a man. I'm just kidding, Dad.

Yeah. Love you, Mom. Love you. Yeah. Love you, mom. Love you, mom. Love you, dad. Yeah. This is something Michael and I are so passionate about, and that is Skillshare. There is time right now, everyone is at home to sharpen your skills. You know what I haven't understood? there is time right now. Everyone is at home to sharpen your skills.

You know what I haven't understood? Right now, you can pay full price, full college tuition, or you could, to go to class, but you can't go to class and you can't take the course and you're spending all this money. Why would you not just stay at home and take classes at a much cheaper price from people like you and me about things you actually want to learn about? Yeah, you can go on Skillshare and they have online classes and you really can learn how to express your creativities. So I had a bunch of people go in from the Skinny Confidential team and take the video editing class. And what it taught them how to do is how to make moving Instagram stories. This was so helpful for the distribution of our content. I think so many creators think that you just have to create the content, but it's actually so much more than that. You want to make sure you're distributing it right.

With Skillshare, you can learn all these different tools to distribute that content online, especially with social media. And if you're just getting started, you're like, how am I going to be productive? How is this all going to make sense? I would recommend starting with Greg McKeown's program on productivity. It's a perfect place to start on Skillshare. Get you all aligned on how to be more productive, how to be more efficient with your time, how to get more done. And then once you've mastered that, you can move on to any assortment of classes. Classes can be chosen from one of the top three new classes from the best of topics

list or any classes that is a Skillshare original or staff pick. They honestly have everything for you. You can totally work on your side hustle. I am telling you, Skillshare is an online learning community. It offers membership with meaning. You guys are going to love the color, the beauty, the fun. It adds details and just really helps you refine your craft. You should also know, which is important to us, it's incredibly affordable. So compared to these pricey in-person classes or even, like Michael was saying, colleges or workshops, this is affordable. It's an annual subscription and

it's less than $10 a month. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash TSC and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash TSC. two by two you know we didn't have doors really but we'd like sonar in the like apartments you know knock on doors say bonjour nous sommes missionnaires de l'église de jésus christ wow you speak amazing french ici pour partager un message de joie de votre famille we're going to the south of france here we go baby wait so then you would what if they said well i want to invite you in my house to know more so you go in their their house. And we were of the era where we had a very specific protocol. And so me, with all my social anxieties and who I am, like this is really like pretty me stripped raw, but me trying really hard to be a great Mormon. So I'm still like socially aware, but I'm also like militant. Does that make sense?

Yeah. socially aware, but I'm also militant. Does that make sense? So what we would do is if they let us in within the first 30 seconds of being in their home, we would kneel down and offer a prayer to challenge them to listen to what we have to say and pray to know if it's true. Wow. wow. And I still get full cringe goosebumps because it made me understand blind obedience in a way because I had to overcome every single thing about me. Like every single social anxiety. Yes. In order to kneel down with... Sometimes they're my age and i wanted to be cool you know what i mean like yeah but i i was so steeped in it i thought like it was cool yeah that makes sense but what are

the reactions of the majority of people that you're doing that to i mean let's be fair the people that are letting us in are into stuff like that you know what what I mean? Have you ever invited in a random missionary? Are you alone? No, it's two by two. Two women together. What if you're knocking on a man's door and he says, come in and you kneel down and he's like...

You're not allowed to go in. We mostly... We were only allowed to teach women. Okay. And families, but the wife always had to be there.

That makes sense. Okay. Because that nowadays i feel like with a man kneeling down two women i mean it sounds like a segment of porn hub that needs to be explored this is a new mormon porn mormon porn does exist it does wow okay i'm sure something else we just had uh sophia franklin from she's one of the duo but she was part of the call her daddy oh yeah okay she's got her own brand but she was part of the Call Her Daddy oh yeah she's got her own brand but she was telling us

this thing about sounding where men stick needles up their yeah this is this is the new thing and hit sounding I'm like

wait a needle in the urethra yeah she was telling us how guys love it I'm like I'm too busy

we don't need to go down. Precision would require like, it's like 2am. You're like, babe, come here. Let's try it. I can do it. I had to end the interview. I was like, Lauren, don't get any fucking ideas. I mentioned this because I'm learning that what my view of what I thought was porn. There's a lot of other things out there. Yeah. That's scratching the surface. There's a huge thing. So you go on your mission and then you come back and you meet your husband basically and like you have to understand the context is like i went to byu i went to college to get married we kind of like pretended like we were going the trojan horse was like get an education but that was really not the objective and none of

us were like there to get an education We were there to find a husband, a Mormon husband, and get married and have babies and populate the earth. So I failed because I graduated from college without a boyfriend and without a husband. So it's a double whammy. And so I was kind of like, what do I do now? And basically, unmarried single women went on missions if they had it in them. And it was kind of like a feminist nod. But really all it was is a way to bide my time because I wasn't married and I needed to be. So when you come back, you immediately meet your husband? I met him. Yeah.

Let me ask you this. Looking back, because my main thing on this podcast, I always talk about if you're in a relationship, don't settle for anything less than what you think you deserve. I don't think people should settle just because society tells you to. When you meet your husband, is your brain thinking, I just got to get married. I just got to check this box? Yeah. But much more so than that, it was saying find somebody and marry the first guy that asks. As long as they like you, I could have liked anyone. You know what I mean? I was so committed to the idea of Mormonism and the idea of marriage and my role in that marriage. It was irrelevant who I married. It doesn't even matter. If he was into me, done. What if he's like the most boring fucking person you've ever met?

It doesn't matter. I mean, I think there has to be an initial thing. I mean, he wouldn't be into me if he was, right? Right, yeah. So there has to be like that. But if I were completely honest with myself, I never would have said that out loud back then. I would have been like, oh, I want him to love me and know me

and want to build empires with. But I was just like, listen, if he's interested, I'll make it happen. So do you guys get married? The water will rise to the level. How quickly? Is it like a month?

He proposed. I met him. I had moved to Huntington Beach and I was working because Huntington Beach was this huge singles community. In California? Yeah.

Oh, I never knew that. The Huntington Beach Singles Ward. I never knew that. Yeah. And we grew up big yeah i lived in huntington beach for like seven years i didn't know there was a big mormon community there you're dying well you guys are pretty self-absorbed what can i say i don't know i mean you are so fucking self-absorbed i don't know what it is i think that we just nobody invited us into the community. Why has no one invited us into the community? Well, because they were dry Harry Potter parties that you guys probably weren't interested in attending.

What's a dry party? Exactly. Mormons are famous for them. So how quickly after you got married, did you have kids? Two years. And you have three beautiful children. Yeah, I have good kids. My kids are the reason that I like blew up my whole life and I'm doing everything I'm doing. Well, your life seems like

it's going pretty damn good now. I mean, you would think, but you just more money, more problems, more TV, more problems. So I'm, I feel truly grateful. Like my life has completely transformed from what it was. So were there points in your marriage that stood out that you were like, I can't do this anymore? Like was there weird things that weren't working? Yeah, from like day four. But it just doesn't matter. Like he's telling you what to do?

Like, what do you mean? It's not like that. Like it's much more sinister and much more subtle. It's just like, here's an example. And it's on me. It's on him a little bit, but like Michael said, it's working for him and I fed into it. So I love sushi. I don't think in 14 years of marriage, we ever got sushi. Not one time, not ever. Oh my God. Just because he didn't like it?

Because I knew he didn't like it. So i knew he didn't like it so i never was like oh well you're gonna just take one for the team i never would even offer it so like guess what my favorite dave's barbecue i'll let's how about we go to dave's barbecue we'll get your special number four we'll see an action movie so you're like i became that person yeah that makes sense that i wanted to be that person i deeply i did love dave's barbecue but i forgot that i really didn't because you just lose yourself wow it's like you tell yourself the same lie over and over and over that eventually it like becomes your truth yeah whoever fucking dates you better take you to fucking sushi every friday night i it would make me uncomfortable

what because like i just i i would feel like selfish unless you really like it. If you really like it, then we'll go. But if you don't really like it, I don't want you to just do it for me. Like, I don't know. I have compersion. You know, what's weird as a viewer of your show, you see you on the show evolve like that. Like in the beginning, you see you kind of not sticking up for yourself. And then you start to find your voice. And then by the reunion, I was like, go Heather. I was in bed.

Rabid. No, I was like, good for you. But I think that's why people identify with you so much and like you so much on the show is because you can see this evolution of someone kind of owning their power, right? Yeah. I mean, that absolutely happened and i watch it too and like even just my like i physically kind of changed like just the my vibe my energy and that was filmed over the course of like i mean almost a full calendar year i'm going to say a full calendar year yeah when meredith was on here like i was surprised at how often you guys film and how much

it's like a full-time thing. Yeah, that's a lot of work. I don't think people realize how much filming actually takes place. A lot of filming. I mean, hours and hours. And it's like, I love the process. I love the process. But it is the same vibe as sex addiction, drug addiction. Why? Because you get addicted to the cameras? You get addicted to the experience, the endorphin rush. It's like fight or flight. And like, because it kicks in.

Like, you're still exactly who you are, but it's hyper-realized. I think that's really interesting because I think a lot of people- No one's ever said that, and that's so honest. Drugs is like hyper-realization, right? Sex is hyper-realized. Like, it's the same bucket. That's why housewives are always DTF. But I think people that look at housewives, I think this is refreshing to hear because

a lot of people that watch the housewives franchise, people come in other housewives and they act like it's this normal, natural thing. And as a viewer, everyone's like, how can this be normal when all of a sudden your entire life is put on for the entire world to see a lot of controls taken away from you? You're maybe a lesser known person and all of a sudden now the world knows you. That's got to be a fucking trip, but nobody ever addresses that and talks about the adrenaline rush and all the way you change as a person. You have to. You have to. I mean, unless you're, I don't know. Associate. Yeah. I don't see how you can't change from all of a sudden you go from somebody who's not a public person, private, and all of a sudden you're fully out there. Fully out there.

Quick break because I need to discuss birth control. I've recently had so many DMs from women all over the world asking for more resources and information and discussion around birth control. So I learned recently that there are more than 21 million women who are not using hormonal birth control, and I'm one of them. But now the FDA recently approved a birth control option that's completely hormone-free. You guys may have seen me talk about this on Instagram already. So it's called FEXI, and it's this combination of lactic acid, 1.8%, citric acid, 1%, potassium bitotrate, 0.4%. It's this vaginal birth control gel that comes in a small applicator like a tampon,

and it works immediately and can be used up to an hour before sex. So basically, you apply the gel before you have sex and only use it when you need it. But you have to apply it again before each act of vaginal sex. So when you try it, remember, one dose, one hour, one act. And I have to tell you guys how it works because it's insane, really. Like, I kind of geeked out when I learned this.

And you know me, I had to overshare. We're going to go there. Normally, without Fexi, when a guy comes and semen enters the vagina, it causes the pH of your vagina to increase, which allows sperm to keep swimming and make their way up there to fertilize your egg. Are you listening, Michael and Taylor? So fexy works by maintaining the vaginal pH to a level that reduces the mobility of the sperm, reducing the chance of the sperm reaching the egg.

How awesome is that? While fexy could be a great option for many women like me who are seeking hormone-free birth control, it isn't right for everyone. So be sure to tell your healthcare provider if you have a recent history of three or more urinary tract infections per year. And obviously, as with any new birth control, be sure to check for any ingredients in Fexi you or your partner may be allergic to. The most common side effects reported by clinical trial participants are vaginal burning, itching, and yeast infection. Some male partners also reported local discomfort. And remember, Phexxi only works when used before sex, and it doesn't protect against STIs, including HIV. To learn more about Phexxi, ask your healthcare

provider and visit Phexxi.com for complete product information. That is P-H-E-X-X-I.com. And Michael, don't pop a boner. I've had a different experience than I anticipated having. In a good or bad way? I'm going to say good. Mostly because I thought I would feel uber vulnerable, that every barb and sling would just kill me because people would be critical. They'd be openly critical. And I feared that. I was terrified of reading something that would just never leave my mind. One of my best friends went on The Bachelor. She's going to love me for telling this story.

She went on The Bachelor and she was a single mom and she got sent home week two which is devastating to me and i've never forgiven her but um how could she do that to you i was just like what did you first what i mean why would you say that to him did you not know how to like cater to him could you not pick up on what he needed like so pissed and somebody tweeted to her when she got kicked off goodbye older looking long face mom oh my god stunning she's you know she's over the moon stunning and so it's it's funny to me because she's not an older looking long face mom the internet's the fucking worst the worst and like we still laugh about it 10 years later i'll just be like goodbye older looking long face mom it's been so fun spending time with it's so absurd the things people pay attention to and that's never left me so i feared

that like i feared having that and that being just like my mantra and i I feared that like, that's what I was afraid of. But in fact, what happened is, I don't care what people say. It's the exact opposite. But you come off as a very self-assured, strong woman. So I think that's why it doesn't. But people don't believe that I can be. Does that make sense? I mean, I don't know why, but they just don't believe that I should be so they're always just like You should like yourself and i'm like I do man. I'm just also aware that I hate myself You know what I mean, which is by the way, I feel like every person I know that that's all but that's self-aware, right? Yeah, I think why people love you so much is that you're just brutally honest and the way you feel is probably how the majority of People like we all love and hate ourselves, right?

You're just very vocal about it where everyone else is putting this mask on saying like, I love myself. Everything's perfect. Maybe that's deflection on their part. Yeah. But women do it all the time. Just like, I think a little humility can do us all well. I think a little community, a little less competition, a little more support.

How quickly after your divorce did you join Housewives? And how did that transpire? Like, how did you get on Housewives? Lisa Barlow. So I separated from my husband in like 10 years, nine years ago. Oh, so it was a while ago. Yeah. That's why everyone's just like, why are you so wounded?

I'm like, that's how wounded I was. Like, you're really not because of heartbreak. Heartbreak would have been a walk in the park. It was life implosion and no palatable future, no sense of how to even put the pieces back together. Because the only reason I got married was to be married and have a family. And it's probably hard to not have a lot. You can't almost talk to people outside of your community because they don't understand. And if you talk to people in your community, you're not going to get the answers you're seeking. Yeah, exactly. There's not a lot of people that have navigated it in a way that was going to work for me. There are a lot of people

that get divorced and get remarried and are blissful, happy Mormons, active Mormons. It's a small bump and I admire them, but it was not going to work for me. I didn't want to blend a family. I didn't want to raise someone else's kids. I did not want to be the type of wife and mother I had been in my marriage to someone else's kids and a new man. So what did you do when you're going against the grain like that? How did that feel? I didn't tell anyone. I just was kind of in limbo. I just was absolutely dead inside because if you have no hope and no, the only reason I was still alive was like, I didn't want to mess my kids up anymore than I already had by like being from a broken family and being divorced from their dad. So I was, I was like. Your kids seem very well adjusted though. Maybe that there's, I feel like there's a

silver lining. They've seen someone step into their own power. I mean, that's the hope, right? But like, that was really my only, it sounds so dark, but it was dark. You know, no one would have seen me as dark. I was still showing up. I was still doing the birthday parties, like mom of the year, you know, like high energy, cracking jokes, clean house. But I was just totally dead inside. That is so honest. I think you need to write a book sorry add it to the bathtub dead inside and still the life of the party yeah no i think that was my first tagline that got rejected so relatable because i don't think you're probably not the only person who's gone through life that

way well don't you think parenthood requires that in a way you have to just like kind of shut down everything you want to do all of your instincts and just do what you have to do yeah like today i was otherwise they die i'm so hung over and i gotta change a diaper and i gotta put my game face yeah it's like you can be dating a guy that won't wake up for anything and then like 2 a.m like you hear a bit you know what i mean it it forces you it's like a hard stop on personal indulgence and And I think that's what you do, what I did. I just did that same, just shut down what I wanted or needed to be a good wife, to be a good mother, to be a good Mormon. So how long after did you join the housewives? Nine years later? Three years? Yeah. No, I got divorced. It took us like three years to get divorced just because I

basically wouldn't do anything. It wasn't litigious and it wasn't, what's it called, like violent. I don't know. It wasn't a big deal. I just, I didn't do anything and he didn't do anything. And I assumed he was going to come back, but he didn't. So I had been officially divorced for three years and Lisa Barlow called me or texted me and said, you know, I'm working on a show for Businesswoman in Utah. I think you'd be great. Would you be interested? Is she the recruiter or producer of the show? I feel like it's Lisa Barlow's show for sure.

Like she's like, she's started it. She's kind of takes on a motherly producer like role. So she sort of handpicked the characters. Joan Crawford. She was handpicking who she thought was going to get the viewers. So did she know it was housewives? None of us did. When you found out it was housewives, what did you do?

You know, when I started to think it might be housewives is when Jen Shaw joined the cast. It took on it. It just shifted because she's such a housewife. It didn't become like, you know, it's not going to be about business women in Utah. You know what I mean? We have 40 pieces of luggage and nine assistants. We're not doing like fiscal

reports. How did you find out that it's housewives? Who told you? Our production team. And do you find that out after you filmed everything? Yeah, we'd filmed everything. They shopped the show. We thought it was going to be more like a Southern Charmed or a, you know, we just didn't know, Summer House. Like we just, we had no, I mean, I'm assuming these things, but we didn't even know if Bravo was going to pick it up. So I really just never thought anything was going to come of

it. I thought it was a great experience. I loved it. I was, I desperately wanted it, but I didn't even think it was possible. So when you hear that, were you freaking the fuck out that you already filmed all the stuff? Yeah. I started to think. So they sold the show immediately. We filmed in June. They sold it the first week of July.

I mean, you could see why. I mean, right? But I didn't know. I had no concept. And I didn't know how it was all going to work. The editing is, I've told Meredith this. The geniuses, the editors. The editing is very different than the other housewives. Whosoever editing that is very, very creative.

It's the same production team as Housewives of New York. Yeah. It's different, though, than OC Beverly Hills. There's something that they do. I feel like there's a totally different rhythm. Yeah. Like the church bells and the fast forward and then they wind it back. And then Post Malone.

I'm just like, I die. And like when they did like the absolutely with me with the thumbs up, like they just, they cut it. Like I die. I think they're so funny and genius. And they always find things that I never even consider to be funny. Like I crack jokes constantly. Like I

literally am like waka waka. Like I can't not be in the room and just be like the court jester. So I'm just they probably are just like sifting through a lot of my shit that I think is really funny and then I'll say something like flapper with cankles and it'll make it. You know it's always the one-offs like never what I anticipate. What I find interesting after talking flapper with kinkles and it'll make it, you know, it's always the one offs. Like never what I anticipate.

Never. What I find interesting after talking to me, I was talking to Meredith the other day and you, we were talking about, do you go back and watch the stuff after it's filming? And, and I think to your point, like a lot of this stuff,

it's transpired a year ago and then you see it a year later. And even if it's something that pisses you off, it's kind of like, well, it's been a year. Yeah. And you've like healed from it. So then you're just like, Oh my gosh gosh am i like weeping in a hot pot like pull yourself together it's just

like it felt it was but it was so hyper realized so if you when you watch that and you see it like a year later and it's you see something you don't like are you do you go and like stir it up all over again and get angry like fuck it just happened a year ago and i'm over it now it doesn't stir up any of the feelings i mostly watch it and like laugh and remember or think wow you were hurting if only you knew that like it wasn't going to get better so it's therapeutic in a way it is it's totally cathartic and therapeutic and for me and it's as basic as i have a reason to live aside from my children because the business i was just doing the business to because you got to do you know I mean? Because what else are you going to do? Right? I was just kind of plotting along like whatever's going to happen. I never thought

I'd be on a television show. I never thought it would become anything. They told us like maybe in October that they were going to call it Housewives. And then Andy announced it at BravoCon in November. As a business owner, you've created a massive business. I mean, it's crazy. Can you talk to us about that journey and how you're now intertwining Housewives with it? Yeah, I think that I was always entrepreneurial and always just kind of, you know, like what we're doing right now. Like, I'm never going to do that business. Let's go into business, you know, like a new segment of porn.

Like, I just do that constantly. I think that's a nature of our culture too. Like Mormons are like multitaskers. We're creative. We show up, we're industrious. Like we're always active. It's use it up, wear it up, wear it out. It's a very productive community. Yeah. We're productive. Like the beehive is our emblem. So we try to always be active in mind, body, and spirit, basically. So I was always doing little schtick stuff. I had a social media company and I was doing Instagram for small businesses, just five or six, very just cottage industry, just me feeling useful. And I was doing it for a med spa for free Botox. And I had a divorce settlement and the guy's business was failing and I'm out of breath again. It was so exciting. Such an exciting time

of new awarenesses. He was running a shitty company. I had a lot of personal issues with the medical industry. I hated it. I hated the MedSpa experience. I hated the blend of retail and medicine. It didn't make sense. And I just started advising them. I mean, I was just a mom. I was just a divorced mom that was good at Instagram. It sounds like you have a creative side. Yeah, I think I'm creative, but I think I just had like, I don't know. I don't know why I thought what I was saying was important or he listened, but he just did.

But it is like the number one beauty hotspot to go to separate from you. It's through the roof. Yeah, it's like- Can you tell the audience and Michael exactly all the things you can do? Because I've seen as a viewer like- Tell me how you can completely fix me up here.

You could use a little Botox on the person. Listen, if you do that, I'd be like, you don't need anything. You're perfect. No. Lauren, let's start with some Botox and we're going to get you on a cleanse. I could use a little chlorophyll. You want to be, you want your rough around the, I love it. What we can start with is a full facial chemical peel. I could use a little Botox brow lift.

I could use, yeah, I could use some help, especially after the week I've just had. Yeah, it's your birthday, you know? He mentioned it four times. Happy birthday. I thought there was a whole parade starting, but nothing's happened yet. And let the confetti drop now. Where is everyone? This isn't everybody, is it?

Come on, guys. Let's walk into this studio. Hello. Like with an anticipatory smile. Just, just Lauren again. So explain, explain beauty lab,

all the like little things that you can get there, the big things, the procedures, what's the whole concept? Okay. So the whole concept of beauty lab is we're not a med spa. We are a lab and we value your time, your money,

and your ability to dictate how you want to look and what you want us to do to your face. Love it. You value my time? Where do I sign up? Number one, value your time and money. So important. So we have, in concept, we have transparent pricing. Our prices are clear. There's no upsell. There's no commission. There's no tipping. It's no commission there's no tipping you just it's like target like you know what you're gonna buy you put it in your cart and you get it so that takes away like a lot of variables no tipping all the anxiety no no i get what you're saying because no tipping so you can't even if you want to tip you can't tip if you leave twenty dollars on a

pillow we assume you want a handjob. Good to know. Good to know. And we will credit that money to your account. It's like our cardinal rule. I thought you said, and we will. And I was like, oh, and then you said credit your card. Yeah, we'll credit the money to your account. They're going to pull that one clip and say, we think it's for a handjob and we will cut.

And we will execute. See, if this was like Bravo editing, I would be like, that's how you cut right through every person's credit card. They have never changed what's happening. They just put it together geniusly. You know what I mean? They just split the contacts down.

They never have left me hanging yet nor anybody I've seen but it is a fear because I kind of felt like when I said, I don't want you to educate me, when I was really saying,

I don't think it's your responsibility to educate me. I know it's my job but it came off as me just being like, I don't want you to educate me. When I was really saying, I don't think it's your responsibility to educate me. I know it's my job. But it came off as me just being like, I don't want to learn anything. It's just like, it's the timing of stuff. I would have to be real careful. I think you guys are in an interesting time because viewers have gotten used to seeing the franchise of Housewives.

So they kind of know now the way that the editing. I don't think people hold you to the same account as they would would have in the past like they understand okay like maybe this was moved around maybe the edit like they're not also utah has experienced stretched as a housewife fan because now i'm gonna need every single franchise to step it the fuck up you know what i mean so it that's experience stretched for me i get you i feel that i do i can't believe i'm a part of it so it's still so surreal but But yeah. I want to know how your life has changed in Utah. When you walk down the street, are people coming up to you or no, because it's COVID?

People are coming up to me. Like Costco, Target. Mostly nice? All nice. I've never had a mean. I haven't had a mean one yet. So they come up to you. They want a selfie. You're my favorite. I love you. Can I take a picture? I love your shoes. Interaction. I love it. I get drunk off of it. Is that pressure though? Do you have to dress up every single day? No, I don't. I mean, I don't. I don't. Okay. Here's another business idea. I'm going to need you to make some meat sticks that are available in Costco. I know. I haven't gotten a meatball sponsorship yet, but Babybel Cheese did send me like a crate.

Babybel sponsor Heather. Yes. But give a stick with the cheese. If I was running a meat stick company, I'd fire every social media manager. How do you not have a sponsorship? How do they not just like, I will eat it with, you know, vigor.

I will eat it on my stories. If you do a meat stick, send me. I'll do an IG live with just like how many meat sticks can she eat? It's endless. Maybe I'm not marketable. I don't know. Meat sticks of Utah. So you say when you go out, you like it when people come up to you. Everyone's been nice. There's been no negative experience. What about social media? Yeah. I mean, I started out so low that the the best way for me to describe it is like when social, when we got announced as housewives, I was not a typical housewife candidate. You know what I mean? I think a lot of people are like, what's going on? I didn't feel like that at all. I feel like you, for some reason, I saw you on screen at the beauty lab and I was like, oh my God, I'm so excited for this. You're kind. But people just

ripped me. Ripped me before they saw it air at all. So they didn't really know anything about me. There's a lot of BS going on with the cast and Instagram accounts that were targeting me and targeting Whitney and pretty cruel. They would never use my face. They would just use a Shrek icon. And I mean, it was endless. And it was continual. I'm going to say this. You are so beautiful. And you really have such good energy.

For anyone to use that icon needs to go fuck themselves. Listen, Shrek's the anti-hero, man. Shrek's cool. And Shrek's skin is pretty amazing. Shrek's like a lot of people would kill to be Shrek. That's something we've been talking about a lot on this show. That is just like so gross. So that people on the internet are sitting in their basement saying things like that. That really makes me mad. Here's what I think. It makes me

happy to hear people in real life are nice because I firmly believe, and I talk about this a lot, but 80% to 90% of people are actually good, nice people. This small 5%, 10% of miserable, trolly people are the most vocal people. Because if you're a normal, nice, good person- You're not going to be vocal. No, and you're not attacking random strangers on the internet or being rude because you're a normal, nice, good person. That's not a fucking wacko. But if you're part of this small 5%, 10% of trolly, miserable people, you're just super loud. And I think the problem with social media is it rewards those people, right? It rewards the loud trolly voices. And that's sensational, right?

So it gets shared more. So we get to this place where people think that's the majority of the world. But I refuse to believe that. I think most of the people we all interact with are not crazy people. Yeah, we're just not putting it out there like that faction of people are. Yeah, because I've never in my life

seen something on the internet where I felt the need to be like, you know what? Now I got to take to the internet. I got to write something. I got to attack this person because this is really disrupting my life. Google's clip art of Shrek. You know what I mean?

Think about the person that that has to be, right? That's a broken person. Cut it out and fit it in the tiles. Show your perfection. If you're going to call someone that, show your perfection. This is the thing. And I know that people think it's just like me compensating. I really don't care that I'm called Shrek because I don't

lead with what I look like. Of course, I don't want to offend people. I don't want to turn people off, but I don't lead with that. And I don't esteem it as that important with people I love in my life. So the fact that people are so devastated for me is also kind of patronizing. That makes sense. That makes sense. Because I have a good, great life. I'm on TV, man. You don't need what you look like, but you are beautiful.

That makes sense. I totally appreciate that. And I believe I'm beautiful. I really do. Yeah. And you also have a beautiful personality. That's nice. So I guess, I don't know.

It just rubs me the wrong way that people are in their like in their basements not being well to to your point when that was happening i was had a private instagram account there was no footage there was no counterpoint to it so it just felt like cyanide and it was like it would be like cyanide in this little cap and so And so it was like so toxic and like deadly. And then the show aired, Bravo kind of started to promote me, whereas before it was all self promotion and I wasn't self promoting. So, you know, Jen was doing like photo shoots at the Salt Flats with like caravan of like Broadway props, you know, red carpets.

And I was just like taking a selfie in my car, like, you know, it was just like, I just was trying to like live organically, you know? So I was not, I wasn't playing the game enough on social media and I got trolled for it. So that was cyanide in this, but then the show aired and people loved me. And now it's like five drops of cyanide in an ocean of good. Good. That's good to hear. It's still there, but it's not loud anymore because the good people people and good people like nobody i mean we

all remember what it's like being in school and seeing but like nobody likes a bully right and people see these people as bullies i think the pendulum is really swinging especially when you start to get into like the culture we're in and people are not happy with people tearing other people down anymore like it's it's not in vogue anymore and it was for a minute which was kind of scary but people are now like hey you're gonna rip people down and be a bully like go fuck yourself right like get out get out of here i think that's the majority of people they're sick of it so yeah now when you hear any hate on the internet you just let it fall off your back doesn't even bother you anymore because you've heard it all yeah yeah you've experienced stretch that i used to like apologize and reply and say i'm so sorry you

misinterpreted that and i you know and i'm and I'm just like, now I'm just like, yeah, honestly, if they don't like you, they're probably watching more. I mean, they say the best, most successful housewives are 50% loved and 50% hated. Of course, I'm just like, well, that's not going to be because I want to be pleasing to everybody. No, I think this. I think this is like amazing therapy for everything that you've gone through to be able to put yourself out there and be like, I don't give a shit if you like me or hate me. Well, think about it. I grew up watching professional wrestling. Yeah. And it entertained.

And there's always the character that the audience fucking hates and there's one they love. And they have to have those people to keep people engaged. And what's funny is over time, look at someone like The Rock as an extreme example. But he was the most hated person in wrestling when I was watching as a kid and then he was the most loved and now obviously he's he's the rock he's who he is but yeah people you know they go on these journeys with these characters and so there's like an arc for it all and i i feel that and i get scared because i it was such an upward trajectory for me honestly because it was so low and then people liked me so like i'm i now I have something to lose.

Before I was just like, I don't... I think you're going to be around for a while. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn't, it doesn't. And I want to stay there. I want to go back to just like a ground level because I'm comfortable there. Being dead inside is actually very safe and comforting. Hello, darkness, my old friend. I love that song. I imagine you probably get a ton of messages from people in the Mormon community that have led similar lives to you that look at you as someone's like, oh, I don't necessarily have to be so ashamed of changing my lifestyle. So I imagine that has to happen to you all the time now.

It happens a lot. I feel like that's kind of like the audience I've, that's been most rewarding for me and that I've really connected with are just marginalized Mormons. Like a lot of women who are divorced Mormons and that story, just like they feel it. And a lot of kind of the things I talk about, like that I never really considered having a career. I didn't even consider it. Like I never considered anything other than being a mom and having kids. And so that's why when that option of a nuclear family is taken away from you, I didn't have any other path to plot. I was screwed.

What do your kids say now? Are they so proud of you? They're so glad I'm divorced because I got to finally be the mother that I... I'm a different person. I'm a wife, obviously. What do you mean? What's the difference? I didn't like sushi and I loved dumb movies. And if he didn't like the movie, I got up and left, even though I was dying inside. If he told me to ask for our money back, I did it. He wasn't mean or commanding. My version of marriage was, he's the head of the family and you're the neck and you just make it work. It sounds like you almost suppressed your personality so he could-

Fully. Fully suppressed my personality. I mean, parts of it. And then there are parts where I would explore it. But to be a devout religious person, you have to suppress a lot of your personality, you know, and your instincts. I think, think of like Orthodox Jews, like think of the Amish, think of Mennonites. Like it's,

it's not, you don't wake up and like want to milk a cow and not have light after 5 PM, but you do it because you believe it's a better life. And if you stop doing it, the life you know will end. Yeah. Whoa. Well, this may get me in some trouble. It's black, but like the Catholic, there's obviously problems in that church and the community that's been brought to light. And I think whenever you're suppressing someone to an extreme degree,

the worst of humans are going to come out because it's so suppressed. So by the time it gets out, it's like, it takes the most like aggressive form. Yeah. It's like the most sinister because it's secretive, right? Yeah. It's like in the dark, you can do it secretively. Like when you're deceiving,

then the darkness knows no bounds, you know, like lights and antiseptic, you know what I mean? Like if you're talking about it, like I'm going to be gay, then you're not going to like tend to be celibate and like molest young boys. You know what i mean like if you're talking about it like i i'm gonna be gay then you're not gonna like tend to be celibate and like molest young boys you know what i mean like you're gonna find a healthy way to explore your sexuality does that make sense yeah that's what

i'm saying yeah and i think that that's something that people should think about when it comes to suppression is it breeds the darkest stuff because people like same as holding a deep secret like it it comes out in terrible ways yeah where if you're in terrible ways. If you're me and I don't feel like, and this is just me personally, I don't have to suppress anything. I'm not that interesting to anyone anymore. It's like, okay, you went on a bender and had too many drinks. Who cares? If somebody who's so suppressed is this, they're going to go to an extreme because they never get to do it. Yeah. And that's why there's, I think, a lot of addiction. We're like the highest opioid addicted state. We have a lot of highest suicide. We have a lot of high expectations for congregants and then also,

but no avenue to successfully be who you are. It's a little bit like prison reform, what we were talking about earlier, how they put the prisoner in jail, but there's no outlet for rehabilitation. And you said you were passionate about that. they put the prisoner in jail but there's no outlet for rehabilitation and you said you were passionate about that can you speak on that a little bit yeah well i mostly because i'm attracted to criminals i love bad boys and i love criminals and i've dated a guy that went to prison and i'm'm dated a guy that is currently in prison and I think prison is awful. Yeah. It's really not really how they treat people.

And I think, uh, our justice system is totally messed up. And I think that drugs should be legalized and that everyone should be expunged from prison. That's in for nonviolent crimes. And I think that policeemen should not police humanity. You know?

I hope that they can do... I think there's probably a lot of police that agree with you. Yeah. And they don't want to police certain things. They've come on the show.

Not they've come on the show. They've come on reality shows and said that there's a 60 days in. The policemen say that. Yeah. I mean, a lot of these laws are not set up

for long-term success. Right? I mean, the lot of these laws are not set up for long-term success, right? I mean, the fact that there's people doing long-term prison stints right now for marijuana, where it's legal in many states now, it's kind of crazy to me. It's like something that is completely legal. Yeah. It doesn't make zero sense. You know, even when the lockdowns happened, a lot of dispensaries in California were considered essential businesses, right? And they kept them open. And I thought to myself, there are people in California and all sorts of other states that are in prison 20, 30, 40 years for something that people are just showing up with a little card and buying,

like they're buying a carton of cigarettes. Yeah, buy whatever they want or need. That's unfair. And we recognize the need to self-medicate and to have medical marijuana or recreational marijuana in a quarantine sequestered situation. And what is more quarantine than prison? all of those guys should be on weed 24 7 you know what i mean like do it if you don't want them smoking at just edible and like a little trick mints like we should be dispensing cannabis in the prisons for sure and we should also like i mean there's i basically what i love about prisoners is well i don't even i mean it's so there's so many, basically what I love about prisoners is, well, I don't even,

I mean, it's so, there's so many things. I love drug dealers. I think they're like true entrepreneurs. Yeah. Smartest men on, you know what I mean? Men. Smartest people. I mean, I would 100% be a drug dealer if I grew up in a situation where that was the

only way to make money. And if it was legal. I mean, and if it was legal. Well, you know. I mean, no, would I would be illegal you guys both would be really great drug dealers you'd be a great drug dealer

well it's all business baby yeah it's business and I love it and like I I admire it it is a hustle it's a hustle and I think like most criminals

they're just creative problem solvers and they're hustlers and they just get caught also there but for the grace of God go I for real and I I'm I just think it's a

devastating thing and like these guys i know they're in prison they watch housewives they send me letters or call with like assessments of it and they are smarter and wiser and like better men i'm speaking of one specifically i'm using collective, but he's like a better man than most. It's interesting because they're big readers too. Well, you have nothing else to fucking do, but the distinction is- But no, they are a lot of known ability there. But I think that the distinction is though- Big masturbators too. Yeah. Aren't we all? But the distinction, I think that the problem with some of the prisons,

there's the violent people. There's sex offenders that are messing with kids. There's people hurting other people. There's people robbing. And if you're a violent offender, then you're going to have to go with God on something.

You're going to have to deal with whatever consequences come your way. But they put people that maybe got addicts or maybe they got selling a bag of weed. Selling jeans. Yeah, selling jeans.

Selling jeans. And they're putting them in. Extortive murderers. Yeah, it's bullshit.elling jeans. And they're putting them in. Next door to murderers. Yeah, it's bullshit. That is such bullshit. And then all of a sudden, people that aren't necessarily violent offenders

are thrown in with a lot of violent people and they have to kind of adapt to that society. So you get caught up in this. It's like, you're going to have to defend yourself.

Totally. Like we had, he passed, but our friend of ours, Johnny, he grew up, he was an addict and he basically grew up

in the Chino San Quentin, like since he since, since he was a kid and like, he got caught up in the gangs in prisons because he didn't have a choice. He was a young kid. He needed protection. Like all of a sudden this guy's in there for 20, 30 years of his life, just going through all started because he was an addict. It's like, I find it interesting though, that you're so completely wasted that your, Your point of view on prison and prison reform, because if you look at the parallels, you grew up in Mormonism and you grew up in that, and that's what you thought you should do. With a drug addict or a drug dealer, they grew up maybe in a broken home, surrounded by drugs and gangs.

It's very similar parallels. And so the reform is important when that's all you've experienced your whole life. And it's working bad or good. You are comfortable in chaos. You're comfortable in what you recognize. It feels like a homing pigeon. Yeah. I can totally see how you can have so much compassion and empathy for that. Because when you grow, that's all you know. That's all you know. And there's a part of me too that knows, I just hate like the amount of deceit and kind of lack of integrity it takes to,

I don't know how to say it. I've just grown up with like a lot of white businessmen and they just, they think as long as it's not illegal, it's cunning and business. Oh, that's interesting. And just kind of cutthroat. And we esteem that as just masculine and successful. And I think those are the guys that should be in prison.

Because they are- They don't have morals. They have zero morals. That's interesting. And they feel entitled. And they think they're smarter than the guy next to them. Like, well, I don't pay that much in taxes because I'm smarter than you. You know, it's pure privilege and it's just dumb. Like they commit the same crime. Nothing happens. This guy commits that

crime and he doesn't have money for an attorney. You know what I mean? It's like you get away with it and they go to prison and they are committing the same crime, sometimes much worse crimes, but they're just not exposed. Yeah, I think the conversation is, I think with social media, this conversation will be able to take a mind of its own. And I think it's so amazing, someone like Kim Kardashian, what she's doing.

Oh, I love it. I mean, it's truly, whenever someone says, oh, what does she do? I'm like, she's one of the most influential women in the world. And for her to take that on, when she really doesn't have to like she could sit back and count her money but she's decided to come speak out about something that maybe has controversy around i think it's amazing it's amazing like i mean granting someone

getting someone out of prison like none of us could be that like i mean that's phenomenal yeah the the the experience she had where she couldn't do something before get clemency for the death yeah that was that was that was hard to stomach yeah like i'm sure it was horrible for her and i just think that's cool which it brings awareness it does my last question is how has your life i know we could talk for hours well i mean I mean, next time we come here, we're coming to Beauty Lab. For sure. Like a little nip tuck. You can come have the hot pots season two, season one experience.

With a meat stick, please. And also we'll have a meat stick bar and the face. Facial manipulation, please. Facial manipulation in the back and the detox. I don't ask for much. And who wants chlorophyll and charcoal, please? You should serve chlorophyll water though at the spa and i'll tell you why okay tell me it literally cures altitude sickness well then why i mean i don't know i don't know

an aspen every single hotel has buckets of chlorophyll water and i got here and i went down don't start the aspen no no no valley debate here i started to be i went down to the front desk here and i said can i have chlorophyll? And they looked at me like I was an alien. It cures altitude sickness. Well, we are just rednecks up here, up here in the Utah. Never heard about that. I love a beauty lab water that it's like charcoal, chlorophyll, and lemon infused. I love this, but see, we're not a med spa. There is no fluff. Not a med spa. We are an injection factory. Okay. While I'm getting my injection, can I drink my chlorophyll sure if you bring it yourself you can drink whatever you want you just have to bring it

i i think you can corner the chlorophyll market here if nobody's got it and i see and i don't know if i want to i think i could also corner the hot pots you can't market the meat stick the meat stick market but it's not the business i really want to be in i'd rather just like we just churn out botox lips cheeks fac cheeks, chin. Facials. Meredith said her favorite is your vampire facials. She's obsessed with that. Because that's like the fanciest we have. Like everything is just pretty much like come get your face washed, your wrinkles relaxed, and your lips full and go about your business. Live your best life, you know? Next time I come here, I'm a hundred percent coming. Yeah. Anything you want. Oh my God. Relaxed. My

whole face relaxed. My wrinkles relaxed. Well, well anything that moves we will inject the photos i would say let's go today but it's your birthday so we'll do it listen don't you want to do that for your birthday yeah we're not open on sunday no wrinkles for your birthday so to finish it off yeah sorry what no no what is your or how has your life changed since everything you've been through and Housewives? How is it different? Are you dating, having fun, going out, partying? Are you like, I don't give a shit. I'm doing whatever I want.

What's the difference? I kind of feel like I don't give a shit. I'm doing whatever I want. Good. I feel like a little bit of a rumspringa. I love that for you. I love it. I'm partying like I'm 22 and my kids are...

I'm just partying like I'm 22 and my kids are testing me because they're like, oh, mom has no... Pushing curfew and dropping the F-bomb. And I'm just like, stop. You said we should be wild. And I'm like, shut up. Go to bed. Like, stop. So I feel like my life has fully changed because I'm having the time of my life. I'm having the time of my life and I feel grateful. I feel lucky. And I also feel like, I don't know, like obligated to like show up for like everybody that's been so great and cool.

What does it require? I know I said that was my last question, but I have one more to date you. Like, what are your likes? Just like me. Just like me. I mean, if you like me, you're cool I have one more. To date you. Like, what are your likes? Just like me. Just like me. I mean, if you like me, you're cool, right? Yeah. That's how I see it.

Let you be you. Like, like me first and I will like you back. I promise. I'm not dating at all. What? I feel like you have a line out the door. No, I know. Everyone says that.

I'm like, no, not in this community really at all. How about you come to Austin in LA and we go out? I love Austin. We built our business based off of Hop Dottie's restaurant. Really? I know that sounds like it's a little bit loosely based, but I went to Hop Dottie. I called my business partner and I was like, these are the five things I love about it. We're doing them at Beauty Lab. You could probably go to Hop Dottie's, get a burger, and then see how we do it at Beauty Lab. We've never been there. What is it?

Burger Place. Burger Place. Have you been there? No, I know what it is though. Oh. You've probably never gone there because there's usually a line like around the block and it looks like Disneyland.

I didn't know this even existed. It's franchised now too. I think there's like 30, 83 locations. You come, open invitation to come to Austin or LA and we'll go out

and get drunk and you can just be you. Whatever that looks like. And see and then like that's all it requires today. Just show up in Austin and like come with me. Let's get a line. Show up in LA. Let's get a line like Hopdoddies. Or does Tom Schwartz have any friends?

Does Tom Schwartz have any friends? He's just younger than me but like I'm sure he does but I mean that was the first time I hung out with him so I didn't hit him up. I try to like not be too desperate you know. Do you have any friends? Do I have any friends does but I mean that was the first time I hung out with him so I didn't hit him up. I don't try to I try to like not be too desperate you know. Do you have any friends? Do I have any friends? Yeah I got some friends.

I got some friends. Yeah. Yeah come to Austin. You are absolutely amazing. I cannot wait to watch season two. Where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out. Tell us all about

how we can follow Beauty Lab and Laser. You can follow at beauty.lab.lazer on Instagram. And I'm just at Heather Gay. And what can we expect from your Instagram? Like what are you posting on there? I'm posting pictures with fans, pictures with my kids.

I'm going to need you to do like a rolled out carpet, like a Jen Shaw photo shoot. My goal is to be a housewife for as cheap as possible because then I like it's like a hidden hidden paycheck you know what I mean I'm into it and also I should say that you are wearing Indie Blue's Lonely Ghost sweater I love you say it back I think Indie Blue is like the voice of the next generation she's like who I want my daughters to model their lives after she's done she's beat to the tune of her own generation. She's like who I want my daughters to model their lives after. She's done. She's beat to the tune of her own drum.

I love it. Yeah. She gets it. She gets me too because she grew up in the same conservative community, you know? Yeah.

She's really a great example. I would, I want Zaza. She's one of the greats. Hi, Indie. Indie. Hope you're doing well. I love you, Indie.

Say it back. Heather, thank you for coming on. Come back anytime you want. Wait, don't go. Do you want to win some skinny confidential brand new skin stickers? All you have to do to win these stickers that you'll want to decorate your hydro flask and phone with is go to my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic and tell us your favorite part of this episode with Heather. As always, make sure

you've rated and reviewed the show. It helps to grow the community. We hope you love this episode and definitely show Heather some love on Instagram at Heather Gay.