The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Heidi Powell On Burning Fat, Becoming Resilient, Overcoming Eating Disorders, & Building the Body You Want!

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

#775: Join us as we sit down with Heidi Powell – a world-renowned transformation expert and former TV Host of ABC’s Extreme Weight Loss. Throughout her journey, Heidi has turned personal challenges into strengths, becoming a certified personal trainer, bestselling author, podcast host, bodybuilding champion, & serial entrepreneur. In this episode, Heidi opens up about her recovery from an eating disorder, navigating women’s weight lifting, the challenges of sharing relationships publicly, healing from loss, & her path of personal growth.   To connect with Heidi Powell click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697)   This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn’s favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   Visit sodajustgotreal.com to learn more about Evolution Fresh Real Fruit Soda and find a store near you.   This episode is sponsored by Ritual   Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Dreamland Baby   Go to dreamlandbabyco.com and use code SKINNY for the buy one, get one free deal from Dreamland Baby.   This episode is sponsored by Kora Organics   Visit koraorganics.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.   This episode is sponsored by Fatty15   You can get an additional 15% off their 90-day subscription Starter Kit by going to fatty15.com/SKINNY and using code SKINNY at checkout.   This episode is sponsored by Primal Kitchen   Visit PrimalKitchen.com/SKINNY and get 20% off your whole order with our personal code, SKINNY, at checkout.   This episode is sponsored by Branch Basics Save 15% on your Starter Kit or their new Hand Soap when you use code SKINNY at branchbasics.com. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Aha. So when they found out and when they force fed me, I would say for the next two years, three years, it got hella worse. I mean, like that was like the beginning of hell, truly the beginning of the addiction. Like I see people who have drug addictions and I don't know what that's like. I don't know what alcoholism is like. I do think, though, that the depths of darkness that are experienced in drug addiction, alcoholism are the exact same in eating disorder world. I always want to keep things fresh on the show. And I love having conversations where people have personal stories or unique perspective.

I initially saw Heidi Powell online. She was really into lifting weights. And you could just tell she was very intentional and thoughtful about her body and her personal fitness journey and her family and her mental health. On social media, she's navigated family dynamics. She's talked about body image struggles, her eating disorder. She has been really, really positive through all of this, and she's been really open. In this episode, we dive really deep into parenting, weightlifting, recovery from eating disorders, her family experience, and her relationships. With that, let's welcome fitness expert, mother of four, entrepreneur, and the co-host of Extreme Weight Loss to the show.

This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Heidi Powell, I think if you go through your DMs, I might have harassed you multiple times to come on the show just because after like following you and watching you you're just so multifaceted i said this off air there's so many different things that you do mother you've been a wife you're so open about weightlifting and building muscle as a woman you help people lose weight you're inspiring you just kind of hit all the points thank you welcome to the show thank you why are you ignoring us i'm happy to be here what was that i know i'm like harassing her i'm harassing you well the thing i actually heard a reel you guys had done recently where i think it was you saying after kids the things that were a yes before can't be a yes anymore and it gets to the point i have four

kids right 19 down to 10 and i don't even see most of the DMs and the requests that come in because my team is kind of dwindled. So it wasn't that I was ignoring you guys. I just didn't even see it. I get it. With four kids, I'm hanging on with two. I can't even imagine. How old are your kids?

Two and four. Those are fun ages. They're fun ages. I think it's better and better and better. Oh my God. Oh my gosh. I love that energy. I'm telling you, 19 year old, 17, 18 year old.

Amazing. It continues to get better. I imagine it's kind of a trip at this point, being able to like, kind of like hang out with your adult kids. Yeah. The other day, what was I doing? There was someone, oh, it was the coach of my son's wrestling team. And I was telling him, thank you.

After he like looked my age. I thought he was my age. You know, you like forget how old you look sometimes. And I was like, you're amazing. Thank you so much, blah, blah, blah. And someone mentioned to me he was 22. And I'm like, that could be my son. He's literally two years and two months older than my actual son.

And I like thought we were the same age. So, yes, hang out with my kids. Heidi, let's be real. What are the, not the moms, what are the, what are the, your son's friends doing with you? What do they do when you walk into school? I don't even pay attention. I'm sure you don't. Listen, I need to talk to you about your son. We're going to need to book about an hour and a half. I do remember what people would do when my mom was, you know,

I wasn't home and my mom was beautiful. All the boys would come over and I thought they were there for me. They were there for my mom. You were sort of a pioneer with weightlifting and you look amazing and you set off air. People think that you need to be like running to lose weight. Talk to us about your journey with weightlifting and how it even began. So interestingly, I was someone who for years, maybe even a couple decades, the first two decades of my life, when I was old enough to like understand working out, I believed in order to be thin, which is what I thought I needed to be in order to be loved, accepted all of the things, I needed to run and I needed to eat less. So for the first half of my adulthood,

I was a cardio bunny. I had had an eating disorder as a teenager, early 20s. And sometimes with that comes that excessive running, under eating, all of the stuff, right? I did not get into lifting until I was actually, I mean, I lifted, but I didn't actively try to pack on muscle until the end of Extreme Weight Loss. So it was season five of the show, which was 2014 is when it was filmed. Chris and I were on stage and someone on one of our participants on stage had said, hey, you just spent an entire year pushing us and helping us do the things that we never thought possible, like climbing, whatever, Machu Picchu, all these things. You guys spent five years doing this for everyone, yet no one has ever turned around and had you do it for yourself. So at the end, they said, we want to

challenge you, me and Chris, to do a bodybuilding competition. And so that was lit. I mean, I lifted weights earlier. I've always lifted, but actually lifting to pack muscle on was not until 2014. And then that started for me like, okay, how am I going to, how do I do this? That's when it really clicked for me in order to pack muscle on. And in order to actually burn the fat that most people want to burn, it's not about running and not eating.

It's actually about eating enough. Sometimes actually you have to eat too much. You can't create muscle with nothing. So eating enough and the perfect balance of proteins, carbs and fats, lifting hard, slowing down the cardio. In fact, I didn't do any for like five years so that I could gain. And then that's kind of that's how that started. When you started lifting like heavily, as you said, what changes did you see? And also, did that help? I've heard this from a lot of

people give you confidence to almost, I don't want to say get over your eating disorder, but kind of recover. It's so funny you bring that up because most people hear that I went from having an eating disorder in my teens and 20s to really just band-aiding my symptoms. I thought I had recovered, but it was just a band-aid. There was still the dysmorphia. There was still the fear of food. I mean, I was on the show and we were doing cardio all day with our participants because they had so much weight to lose. We were lifting with them, but I was hiking all day. So I was that was kind of a bandaid on I didn't have I wasn't bulimic anymore. I wasn't anorexic anymore. I wasn't doing any of that. I didn't have a food addiction anymore. Thank goodness. But the dysmorphia that underlied all of it was actually still there. Like the idea or the thought of slowing down my cardio, the idea or the thought of eating too much, like a calorie surplus was still super scary to me. And so going to bodybuilding, it was actually a bikini competition is what I was doing. Bikini is the, I don't want to say the lowest, it's

the most petite of bodybuilding. So for anyone who's listening, who doesn't understand what it is, it's bikini figure is the next size up. Physique is the next size up. And then bodybuilding is a whole class, like category above. So for me and my build, I was going to go into bikini bodybuilding. Many people have reported that going into bodybuilding after an eating disorder has been not great for them. Or maybe they went in without an eating disorder and they came out of bodybuilding. They came out of competing

with an eating disorder. Something beautiful though, you nailed it. Something beautiful happened for me. I was afraid of putting calories in my body. I was afraid of not doing cardio. Hiring a coach who understood female psyche, really, because he'd worked with so many females, who also understood that it wasn't just about leaning out, but it's about making sure you have adequate calories to build muscle, and also understood that cardio was going to ruin it, like kind of slow down my muscle growth, was the greatest thing. So right away, he actually saw me. He said, okay, you have a long journey. We'll put you on stage in a month. You want to be on stage, maybe it was two months, but I'm letting you know you're not going to do well. I went on stage. I

did not do well, but right away he had me eating about 25 2600 calories And then after that 25 26 I had graduated over time to 3000 calories a day to try to put muscle on Now that being said I felt like in my mind the world would look at me and be like you're ridiculous but I felt fluffy like I the Mental part of me was like, oh my gosh. But I felt fluffy. Like I, the mental part of me was

like, oh my gosh, I look terrible. I don't know X, Y, Z. I don't know if this is going to work out. I did a weekly check-in with my coach though, who could look at my body and say, you, your mind, like what you're seeing in the mirror is not accurate. You look like you're on track. And I finally, he had a talk with me where he's like, I need you to actually trust what I say. Like my name is on your transformation. If you get on stage and don't look good, that reflects poorly on me. So I, from that point, gave it up. I trusted the process, went all in, which is exactly what I ask people to do when I work with them. Yet I was having a hard time doing it myself.

And yeah, over time, it became the most incredible thing where food no longer scared me. I understood macro counting, all that. I understood building, but I didn't have to be so anal about it that it destroyed my life. It's so interesting to like this topic's come, we've been doing it for a long time, but the topic of muscle building and female muscle building has come up more and it's so interesting for me as a man to listen to it because men go about it the whole different way where we know, okay, if you want to grow and build muscle, you have to eat a lot more than you're going to. And then you're going to feel this weird period of time where you're to your point, a little fluffier and a little bigger and you're holding more water retention.

And then in order to get that like cut lean look, then you start like you have to do that first before you can get it. And you also need to put the muscle on so you can burn the fat. I think a lot of guys already know this. And it's interesting for me to hear women talk about this now because it keeps coming up, but it's counterintuitive. And I think scares a lot of women because all of a sudden the scale starts to change and you start to look differently. And it's almost like you have to get to this point where the muscle's there for the other

stuff to take effect. And a lot of people don't believe that that's going to happen. Yeah. Does that make sense? It does. And I think a lot of women have this false idea. I mean, then I studied and researched and experienced a lot around this since that point. And many women, I was one of them, had the idea, like many women have the idea that if I lift heavy and if I eat a lot, then I'm going to look like a man. That's what I had. That's what I thought I was going to get bulky. Yes.

And so they don't want to lift weights. They don't want to eat a lot. They don't want to take creatine. I don't do creatine. But when I was actively training for a show, I did. They don't want to look like lot. They don't want to take creatine. I don't do creatine, but when I was actively training for a show, I did. They don't want to look like a man or get manly. I would get messages all the time about it. So they don't do it, but we are not physiologically,

like we don't have the hormonal release. We don't have the hormonal setup to look like a man. And the people that you're looking at in the gym who are women that maybe are bulkier are probably in there for three to four hours a man. And the people that you're looking at in the gym who are women that maybe are bulkier are probably in there for three to four hours a day. Like if you're talking about lifting weights four times a week. They're taking.

They're adjusting. There's hormones involved. I think a lot of guys that work to build muscle laugh at this too because it is so hard. We go for hours just to do that. The idea that someone's going to do this for a little bit or they're going to incorporate and then all of a sudden it's going to happen. I want to know what they're doing then because I want to do it for me. Does that make sense? And I'm the same way.

Even now in my life, I'm at a point where I don't have as much muscle on me as I like. I got to the point where I loved how I felt and how I looked at 125 pounds. My body wants to be at 110. It is like it's everyone's body is different. I like me at 125, but to maintain the muscle to hit 125, 130, I have to eat all day long. I have to load in carbolin. Like I'm literally adding 200 calorie scoops of carbohydrates to shakes in between my meals just and it takes time to get there so it is it's a full-time job well i also think don't you think that you've trained your metabolism to be so fucking crazy because you've lifted weights like this is the other thing i don't think people understand when you lift weights you're activating your metabolism

you have activated your metabolism so much and so well that you're a machine with burning food. You're right. So you are very right. So muscle, we've heard this a million times, but I'll just kind of lay it out. A pound of muscle looks smaller than a pound of fat, but that pound of muscle, although smaller, it is mightier. Like the more muscle we, that's why weight shouldn't matter, right? Because if we have, you might look the same, be the exact same volume or size as someone else. And you might be a much heavier because you have more muscle on you. The more muscle you have, the more fat you burn. The muscle is, it kind of, it propels the metabolic engine. So yes, it increases our metabolism, which is why we

shouldn't be scared of having those muscles, of feeling that you do have to feel bulky for a while. What happens is we kind of inflate and grow the muscles usually first, and that fat layer is still there. That's why a lot of women will lift for like a week, two weeks, three weeks, and they'll be like, my pants don't fit. I'm done. Like like i'm bigger i'm fatter is what they say you've just kind of pushed the fat out a little bit but you have to do that so you can solidify that muscle and then start to shrink the layer of fat on top so are you saying that everyone has it ass backwards and that women are confused with what actually is happening for

sure yes oh yeah and once you figure it out like you can't unsee it no you can't unsee it i can't go to an airport i'm like oh my god whatever we need to put more muscle on as a society like i'm sorry this is like this is uh this is true we need to put more muscle on and if we had more muscle on we wouldn't have to be so worried about the food just think about there's so much freedom in it too. You know, I feel so much better than I did. Yes. But just think about the skeletal structure of aging people. And what I've said is on the show and I got pushed back one time when I said like, if you have back problems at 35 year old, it's likely because you're under muscled, right? Like you should not have back problems at 25, 30, 40 years old, right? Like it's likely because

you don't have the proper muscle structure in your back or in your legs. Yeah. And you're probably not drinking enough water. I mean, there's so many things, right? If we just did the basics and we trusted that food was here to fuel us and build us and make us healthy, like food is medicine, right? And yeah, I, food is medicine. Lifting is medicine. Like osteoporosis is a real thing, especially in women. Like we need that resistance training to be our healthiest as we age. We need muscle. I want to go back. You mentioned.

I love your cards, by the way. Those are so cute. They're fun, right? A little branding. I want to go back to what you mentioned about your eating disorder. Do you remember a point when you were young that activated it? I'm always interested in this as a mother to a daughter. Do you remember something someone said? What sort of tipped the tipping point for you to go into that? Or was it just

a death by a thousand cuts? And now being this age and looking back, what set you to even having an eating disorder to begin with? So I do remember a specific moment. But before I say the moment, I think there's a stage that was set already that maybe predisposed me to have dysmorphia. I'm going to say dysmorphia because that's kind of the root of eating disorder for me. It was for me. My mom, and see, as I say this, I'm going to say I recognize that the stage I'm setting is very similar to the stage set for my kids. And so I have done things different. I recognize this. My mom was a blonde Barbie, a muscle Barbie. Okay. She literally, my mom is the most gorgeous woman I know. And my dad was like a six foot one Mr. Clean, like big bald head, huge muscles. And just,

they were successful. They were happy. They were everything. Like they were beautiful. And a great couple. My dad passed. Thank you. 13 years ago. My mom is still here and she's just, she's awesome. I love her. And I saw the way that my dad loved truly. You've never seen a husband and wife treat each other the way that my parents did. It was magic. Not just because my dad's passed. It really was.

I saw how he treated and how he loved her. They went to the gym together. They did all these things. I was the one girl in a family of three. I had three brothers. There were three brothers and just me. So the one girl and four kids. And I, my, how do I say this? This will go deep, but it's just, it's how it was. My dad knew how to raise boys. He coached their sports. He did all their things. He did not know how to raise a daughter. Yeah. And I think back then it was different too. So it was either I was, you know, treated like one of the boys or maybe I was my mom's to, you know,

deal with or figure out or. And so there was a huge part of me always trying to please my dad, always like wanting his approval, wanting his love. Daughters, you guys, they can't preach enough. They need their dad to love them and to coddle them. And, and I don't feel, he loved me in a way that maybe was different than what I needed. And I was, he was, he was a hard dad very hard he had high expectations and so I thought in order to be loved the way that my dad loves my mom like in order for him to because he just loved her like put her on a pedestal I need to make sure I look like my mom I need to look like my mom I need to act like my mom I need to try hard to be like her and I she, she was 5'4". I outgrew her. I was 5'5 and a half. She was say 115 pounds. I outgrew her in high school. All I saw was how much bigger I

was than her always, right? We didn't fit into the same pants. She never made me feel bad, but just, oh shoot, those don't fit you. Here's some different ones was like, I'm not my mom. I don't look like my mom. So there was this humongous fear and my family, I felt like was perfect. Like truly they're funny. I love, and I felt like I was the one who was always messing up. Were you the youngest? No, I was the second. I think there's a very high expectation placed on the oldest kids most often. Yeah, sure. Mine there were right. And I had that high expectation combined with, I was the only girl, so maybe they didn't know how to raise me, but boys were like rinse and repeat, you know? And I couldn't get my dad to be proud of me the way that I wanted that wanted.

Right. So I was constantly trying to look like my mom. I never wanted to be overweight. I never wanted to look a way that wasn't going to be approving to him. Now, the moment though, that I remember body image sticking out, my parents, as we were younger, would always take us to the gym.

Well, I don't know why. I don't think they thought I was overweight or anything, but especially me. They were both weightlifters at the time? Yes. They lifted weights. They did protein shakes. You guys, when I was overweight or anything, but especially me. They were both weightlifters at the time? Yes. They lifted weights. They did protein shakes. You guys, when I was like in junior high, elementary school, before anyone, my dad would

have the big RX bars that he would eat. Like, he's like, oh, I love these. Each of them had like 50 grams of protein. He'd eat like five a day. I don't think he realized it was like definitely too much protein. But then my parents would pack lunches that had because just because they were into health, they wanted to share what worked for them. But I heard it as, okay, something's wrong with me. Like the lunches were salad with fat free, calorie free,

zesty ranch dressing. And so I had thought something's wrong with me. They were not saying that. That's what I heard because they were just, oh, here's some fat-free red vines or here's the snack wells. And here I was probably 120 pounds. So I was, and I was very fit, but I remember getting in the car on the way to gymnastics. I was also a gymnast and a cheerleader who they threw up in the air, right? So I was the one, I was conscientious of how much I weighed. I had a leotard on and I put the seatbelt on. I might've been 10, Ruby's age, my youngest, put the seatbelt on. I saw skin folding over the seatbelt. That's all that it was. But I saw, 10-year-old Heidi saw fat. And then I looked

to my friend next to me who was very petite. She, you know, none of us had really gone through a growth spurt, but she was a little skin and bone tiny thing. And she was tighter than I was. And that was the moment for me where I'm like, Ooh, like something's wrong with me. Like I still vividly, I haven't thought about that for maybe 15 years, but that was the first moment. And then add to it all the stage that had been set. And, you know, in my junior year, I blew out my knee and so I could no longer work out. And if I can't work out, then I can't eat because then I'm going to get fat was my mentality. Did your parents never contextualize why they were so into health and fitness or they were

just like something they did? I don't think they knew. So it was something they did? I don't think they knew. So it was something they did that had them stick out in a beautiful way. Like my parents were actually a light to everyone around them. They would get their neighbors to work out. I mean, this was like 19, the eighties. But they never sat you down and said, we did this because we like to feel good and we like to feel healthy. And it's not because we want to look a certain way, but it was just kind of like, this is what we are.

I don't think until the day my dad died, I don't think he realized that there was a connection between them going to the gym and me having an eating disorder. Because my dad's story was, what the heck is wrong with her? Like how I, all this stuff. And you are the one who, you know, it was kind of like you, something's, what's wrong with you? Truly. It was like a, what?

Cause they just didn't understand it. Eating disorders were much more silent in the nineties and early two thousands than they are now. I mean, and if there was an eating disorder on the front of a magazine, it was like my parents would put it in front of me, like, look what's going to happen to you. Because they knew at the time I had an eating disorder. And I then would take it because I was like, okay, that doesn't matter. What matters is that I end up looking the way that you need me to look. And so I'd read it and figure out how to fine tune my eating disorder instead of like how to fix me, right?

I remember like when we were growing up in high school, there was like websites that you could go to. There was I had a friend who had an eating disorder and she would go to these websites and they give you like eating tips. Was there a moment that you remember that your parents noticed that something was wrong? Like, did you just start losing weight? I had an eating disorder sophomore and junior year, but it was anorexia. It had not yet turned into bulimia, blown out ACL, which took me out for like eight months. Then it really got bad. Between my junior year and my senior year, I had gone from 120, 125 pounds down to 98, 97 pounds. And I was 5'5 and a half. So I had really gotten tiny. I feel like my cheer coach was the one who brought it up to my parents. I don't think my parents knew what had happened,

but that led my dad who was very strong and like, you're going to do whatever the heck I tell you to do. Kind of a person. I didn't have an opinion as a child in nothing. It was just, you are what I tell you, you are, you're going to eat a cheeseburger. And so it have an opinion as a child in nothing. It was just, you are what I tell you, you are, you're going to eat a cheeseburger. And so it wasn't ever like a, I'm so sorry. What's happening. You know, parents back then were not like parents now, right? Emotions didn't matter. My dad, I remember would force feed me or like, you're going to eat these, this cheeseburger and fries, which was my biggest fear at the time. And so that then cued bulimia. Okay, well, they're going to force feed me.

And I don't even think I had a go F off attitude. It was just more like, I can't keep this in me. I'm terrified of what's inside of me. Let me learn how to throw up. And so, yeah, those sites, it wasn't sites back then. It was really magazines that I would actually find like how they also used to show in school like I remember being in school and there was like some creepy videos of people throwing up that was so in like the jar that's the exact one they showed

us in the jar and I was I was traumatized yeah to be honest we even though like what is that exposure therapy to be honest we probably saw the same video like they probably don't update those videos for like they just probably leave that one video in the jar yeah i know in the closet in the woods yeah i told you that thing freaked me out oh oh so so when when your parents finally found out, how did you start to recover when you were young? Or did it take, like you said, you had kind of been hiding it as a body dysmorphia for a long time. So when they found out and when they force fed me, I would say for the next two years, three years, it got hella worse. I mean, like that was like the beginning of hell, truly the beginning of the addiction. Like I see people who have drug addictions and I don't know what that's

like. I don't know what alcoholism is like. I do think, though, that the depths of darkness that are experienced in drug addiction, alcoholism are the exact same in eating disorder world. So go back to what you think helped you. I don't know if the right word is recover. I had mentioned it had gotten worse, right? It went my eating disorder. I had graduated high school a year and a half after that. And then I lived on my own. And having been under the rule, I'm going to call it, of a very strong willed dad and being

on my own against his will, right? It was like I had freedom and all of the pain of childhood had hit and college was a disaster. I went from being like a straight A student to ASU. I was like Ds and Fs. It took me moving away to Utah to try and do school with my friend. Like, I think the number one thing for me was living life on my own. You have to kind of experience it. Like no one, I think there's a lot of parents that are like, my daughter is going through this. How can I stop her? My first response to that almost always is no one can really stop the path that she's on. For me, no one could have stopped me from needing to experience life in the way that

I did to teach me that food wasn't scary. But I had to walk through those steps. No one else could walk through them with me or for me. I think what made it more difficult and what will always make it more difficult for anyone in the middle of an eating disorder is feeling like the people around them have conditional love for them. Like if you don't fix yourself, then I'm not going to love you. Like that is like a, you know, like that makes it worse.

Or like, I can't believe you. I can't. Something's wrong with you. Making someone feel like something's wrong instead of, hey, I'm sorry, you're going through what you are. Like, how can I help? What can I, I wasn't able to heal myself

or be healed or even begin the journey until I felt like I had a safe space, right? Till I had someone who I could talk to, who could understand. I think that's a self-aware thing to say, though, because a lot of people go up resenting the people around them because they can't stop whatever cycle they're on. And I think recognizing that some things people are going to do regardless of outside input, like there's certain things, even, you know,

there's certain things in business where I'm hesitant to give people advice. I'm like, there's no way to teach someone until they actually do the thing or go through the thing. But sometimes you go, people grow up and they are resentful and say like somebody else could have stopped this. But I don't think that's realistic in a lot of cases. No, I agree with you. I really do think we all have to go through what we're meant to go through. And I mean, no, I don't know if you're saying people who have suffered from like an eating disorder are mad at the people around them. I'm just saying people in general sometimes think that outside input would have stopped whatever behavior they were doing. That's a lack of responsibility in my opinion in any way, right?

Like for my eating disorder, I don't even like to say the story I can tell, but I hesitate to say it because I'm like, I don't want anyone to think it's my parents' fault. No, you could have had two girls in that situation and one would have gone my way. The other would have gone a totally different way, right? It's my decisions, my, yeah. I'll just pick on myself. Like there's things that I've done in my life and earlier in my career, and I definitely as a kid that I can look back and say, well, if somebody would have stepped in and told me, I just know myself. It's not true. I was going to do it regardless of anything. And I had to make those mistakes and learn from them. The tragedy is people make the mistakes and then they never learn from them and they blame everybody else.

Yeah. And maybe it's possible, I think the same thing, but maybe it's possible someone gave you the advice or gave me the advice right that I needed but I couldn't hear it right maybe you couldn't even it like bounced off the walls because you didn't have the experience to even know what they were saying right so that that's kind of how I feel and I made a lot I've made more mistakes probably than most people and it's because I just I needed to make them to get to a point where I'm like, okay, I have all the pieces now. And I don't make as many mistakes these days. When, at what point do you meet Chris, your first husband, who you had your four children

with? Okay. So Chris and I had two. I've been married twice. Oh. And in the way, like the eyes of, you know, my friends online, I think many of them think I've been married three times because Dave and I had such a deep relationship. It does feel like three marriages, but yeah. So I was married

right out of high school when eating disorder was, in fact, this husband, I don't even think he knew I had an eating disorder. I had hit it the entire time. But yeah, so I married someone right away, had two kids with him. I was raised Mormon and like, I thought I needed to get married young, like my mom and dad did. Two kids. And then it was that eating disorder band-aid started when I was pregnant because pregnancy was like, oh my gosh, I'm building a baby. Do I want to build this baby with healthy foods or am I going to ruin this baby? I had a friend who had an eating disorder and her baby had severe complications. So I knew I didn't want that. So I had two kids with my first husband. We divorced because I realized five years in, I

didn't even know what decision I was making. And the eating disorder came back during that. So I thought I had fixed it. It came back during that so i thought i had fixed it it came back during divorce i started going to therapy for the first time all sorts of therapy eating disorder therapy personal therapy ended up going to a self-improvement seminar in the midst of all of this i'm like actually you know consciousness is like coming i'm seeing the world and seeing my life and myself for the first time. And I go to this self-improvement seminar. It's called Landmark. I don't know if you guys have heard of it. Two days in, like there was this guy with all these muscles and like he would bring this like thing that looked like a bomb. It was like this carrier that had a timer on the front.

And I'm like, what the heck is that? We would both, we were the only two people who brought our lunch in the entire thing. And we would like measure our food and whatever. So he would pull like down the sides and like these color coded containers would come out with like marked and dish up. And he'd like have his protein in the red and his carbs in the yellow. And, and he's eating this food. And I was like, oh, I, I also didn't want to be in a relationship. So I would kind of avoid him. And then I had this cooler. I would eat my food. And he came up to me. And I was at a point where I'm like, if any guy comes up to me, I do not want anything to do with them. I'm like a mess right now. And he's like, I want to know what you do to get those guns. Like he was commenting on my biceps. And I'm like,

oh, anyway, we started talking because we both brought our food. This guy's name was Chris Powell. I kind of avoided him. But the final day, he needed a ride to his car. And so I let him get in my car. We ended up talking for like three hours in the parking lot. And just we were at a point where we were deconstructing our lives and saying all the things, mistakes we'd made, and here's the mess I'm in, and here's what I'm committed to growing. And we became best friends.

Like truly, to this day, I actually think there's a level of best friendship with he and I that will never go away. But yeah, so I started with Chris just helping him build his business. So he was fresh out of his car. He lived in his car because he'd invested all of his money into this product, this invention called the stack system, which was color-coded containers with marked indicia. So you fill the protein to your weight and you fill the carbohydrates to your weight. And he had this whole carb cycling manual long before six-pack bags was a thing like this was 2008 that we met and he'd been doing this for years before that and so it but yeah you put it in this bag and you

have a timer so you eat every three hours so chris had put all of his money and then some into stack system ended up homeless living on other people's couches and his car and he and i met right after that and i was a fixer and he you he hadn't filed his taxes in four years. And I'm like, I can fix that for you. He was drowning and overwhelmed with business stuff. And I said, I will, on days where I'm not doing real estate, which is what I was in at the time, or in between my stuff, I'll help you. I happen to love business. And so we became best friends and I was his best. I helped him clean up a lot. He was shortly in thereafter, like in this kind of business mess that I helped him clean up. And we built a company together and then he decided he wanted to create a show.

And so we went and created a show. What point do you guys start to fall in love? Is this after the show, during the show, on the show? Because the show was a real hit. Okay, let me say this. So Chris and I, we were dating way before the show, right? When the show was created, we were boyfriend and girlfriend, but I was always an equally just as much his business partner. Chris, up to that point, I don't think, this is going to sound really interesting, but I'm going to say it. I don't think I knew what it was like to have a romantic relationship until Dave. Okay. Now, Chris and I had started. So like Chris and I were, I just didn't know. I mean, my first husband and I didn't really connect at all, right? We didn't click.

I didn't, I had no, I didn't date a lot. Chris and I had, and still do, the deepest, truest appreciation for each other. So before we said, I love you, we said, I appreciate you. And then we got to the point where we were, and we would say, okay, appreciation is actually deeper than love because I really truly, and this is, I get emotional saying this, but like he is one of the most genuine, kind, talented, big thinking, just amazing humans. I have such respect for who he is. I appreciate him so much. And he, in me, saw that all I wanted to do was help him. All I wanted to do was take his dream. He's a dreamer and I was a doer. And we literally poured everything in to build something amazing. And I feel like it was

a God thing because the heavens aligned, or I'm sorry, the heavens opened, the stars aligned and this path was opened up for us. He's a manifestor, you're a generator. 100%. Is that right? Yes, yes, yeah. So it, now when did we fall in love? So love just looked so different. I think there are different types of love

that you experience at different points in your life. Love for us looked very different than love for, say, me and Dave, right? He and I had just a true partnership where his strengths were my weaknesses and my strengths were his weaknesses. And there was a mutual respect for creation in all the ways, right? So that was great. And then we ended up having babies after the show started. I am very passionate about examining the products that I put into my body or on my body on a daily basis. And something that I do every single day that I've done every single

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As the show is on and you guys are, I don't know if you want to call it in love, appreciating each other. We definitely had, yes, loved each other. So I don't want to sound like we didn't. You loved each other. Just different. So how do you guys show up on a show while also having kids, while also having a business? And you also had two other kids. How are you balancing all this in your life? It was a lot. Yeah. So when we started the show, I was Chris's manager. And tell us, anyone who's listening that doesn't know the show, give us context of what the show is. So the show was on ABC. It was like the end of the era of network television hits, right? So it was on ABC, which, you know, it was TV, not a streaming thing. And it was,

we got to spend one year in, it was 76 participants lives. So we kind of layered it and it was just, it was a lot. We spent one year helping them transform their lives, losing half their body weight. So it wasn't just about weight. Now to the viewing audience and the marketing team, yeah, we get them in by showing them the hard workouts and these amazing transformations. But what really happened is we would transform their lives from the inside out. Yes, it was diet and exercise, which is what Chris was so, you guys, he's the most scientifically, he's just awesome. He's so smart guru. He taught me most of what I know in that space. He kind of laid the

foundation for me. I, when keeping someone for a full year though, and transforming their bodies like that requires mind, heart, and soul transformation. I am a very feely, emotional person who has dealt with my own addiction. My dad had addiction as well. We went through treatment with him. So there was kind of a background of overcoming addiction. So our tag teaming was amazing, right? But when we started the show, I was just his manager. I would do all the agent connections and the business stuff and working with the business management team, all the things. I though, because I'm a fixer, it was like when Chris was having a hard day, which was right away, because he went from only doing one massive transformation, he'd helped a guy lose 400 pounds over the course of 22 months. And there were a

couple documentaries they did when we were dating. was really awesome wow he had one transformation to suddenly abc's like okay we want to do eight people at once a lot of energy it was a lot and i filming a tv show just the camera element is a full-time job in and of itself transforming one person is a full-time job in and of itself so it's like he had these two full-time jobs but you know it's one person times eight that he could not manage on his own. And Chris, the pressures of the network, it was like the production crew came from Biggest Loser. So they were very used to fast weight loss, like drinking pickle juice to trick the scale and gain weight one week and then losing it all. It was just like fast weight loss was expected. And so when the numbers in a year-long transformation, the numbers are not exciting. Sometimes we have a big loss, but mostly it's not huge, right?

The pressure of the network and the production company was a lot for him. So I very quickly stepped in to kind of help Chris juggle. Six months into season one, we're only halfway done with that season. ABC picks up another season, like they cue season two and it's 16 people. So then we're juggling 24 people. And that was the point where I'm pregnant at the time. I jumped in.

We had people coming to Arizona to live with me and my kids. So I had two kids from my previous marriage who we had 90% of the time. And I'm pregnant with my third. And I had a ton of energy though. I was like 27, 28 at the time. So I could do anything at that point. But yeah, I have people living in Marley's bed. So my kids would sleep in my room. We had the beds there. I would wake up. I would hike with the... I'd get my kids off to school.

We'd go hiking. Actually, I would hike before they went to school. What if you didn't like the person? Well, I like everybody. I can truly look at anyone. It doesn't matter how nasty they are. And I can find the good in them. And I can connect with that.

What a great quality. That's a very special quality. That's unique. I actually love the problem children. I can look at anyone and find the bad quality. This is Larry David. You can't stop. So you had them in your home and you're going through all the protocol within your home while you're pregnant. Cooking their food, cutting their chicken, weighing it, like carb cycling them. I'm doing everything for them. I had trainers that I would hire to kind of do kickboxing with them or whatever. We ended up the next season getting an Arizona bootcamp house that was just down the street from us. And so then I became the head of the Arizona bootcamp house, which then the producers were

like, this is awesome. Like the husband is doing his thing here, traveling around, right? Going and surprising people, taking them on these massive adventures. And the wife and her kids are literally hiking in Arizona with the people who aren't losing weight. So they started pulling elements of real reality into the show. And then I became co-host. So it kind of not, I didn't try for it. I was really uncomfortable with it. This all just happened. What is it like when your husband's traveling, you're pregnant and all this is going on?

That's where I would think it would be hard to connect. Let's try it out. We'll see what happens. Go ahead. You go travel. You leave me alone for five minutes. Let's see how that goes. You text me.

I go to the grocery store and you call. An experiment. So what is that like to have your husband traveling? You're pregnant. You've got a network show. It's like so much is going on. It was a lot. And it was layered with...

I was... Also, you're young too. Six, seven months pregnant. Yeah. I was six, seven months pregnant with Cash, my third child. Chris is my first. The show was about to air. The season one was about to come out i've been a year and a half or so and my dad passed away who i didn't even know at the time that i had a lot of childhood wounds around right like i didn't even i had no awareness of this did you ever get to speak to your dad

before he passed about any of this stuff nope she didn She didn't know. She didn't have, she wasn't aware. Nope. And even. Oh, sorry. That's a bummer. No. Sorry. It's okay. It's okay. It's a good thing. I, I'm not, I don't kind of, I don't run away from talking about it, but it, even the mention, I'm like, man. Yeah. Sorry. No. When I asked it, I said, mention, I'm like, man. Yeah, sorry.

No. When I asked it, I said, oh, that's going to hit it. No, it is a thing. You know, I was telling someone the other day, I'm like, I, you know, everyone will talk. Many people will say, oh, I had a conversation with my dad. I still. It's okay i think that that even if you had had the conversation sometimes i think what i've realized is i've gotten older that everybody's doing the best that they can and so he probably

thought he was doing the best he could and that's that generation too it's just a different my dad's older my dad's turned 80 this year hate me saying this age on the show but it's just a different, my dad's older. My dad's turned 80 this year. I hate me saying this age on the show, but it's just, I think that generation, like I think about the way they were parented. Yeah. And there was just not a ton, I think, of emotional capacity. That's that.

And he was, my mom was 17 when he and my dad, she and my dad got married and had their first baby. 17, 18. And it's crazy for people to think about now. Really, you guys, so much of who I am am like truly because i i know who i am and i'm super proud of who i am i haven't always been like i would say like 90 of my good qualities are actually the same qualities my dad has like we are very similar in so many of the good ways. And then the 10%, he was just very young, you know?

And every child is going to be like, my parents were 90% great, 10% really freaking hard. We all have childhood trauma, right? And so I recognize that. I love the idea of radical forgiveness, right? Which is like, I feel like there are things, I feel bad even saying this because like I love my dad and I appreciate him so much.

And there are things that I, you know, have worked on forgiving over the years. But radical forgiveness is the idea that when you realize who you are today, like who I am today, who I've evolved to be, who I'm proud of,

is exactly who I am because of how they were. Like I have nothing, you realize you have nothing to forgive. I have nothing to forgive really, because I am all of the good that I am because of him. And also the heart, like the other good that I am is because of maybe what I felt like I didn't get and I've grown and walked through a really treacherous path to get to where I am. That's evolved, Heidi. That's evolved. I like radical forgiveness. I'm here for it. I think that it's also, I mean, we have young kids and you have some kids a little bit older, but I worry sometimes there's this whole new term, what's called gentle parenting. Yes. sometimes like there's this whole new terms like what's called gentle parenting yes i was like that's not i didn't experience that but i i almost think like is that really the best idea

like i don't know i mean a lot of the things that maybe i grew up with and a lot of the kind of you know pushback that i had as a child like was maybe not just gentle parenting but maybe then set me up for success later. I don't really necessarily think we need to brand parenting. I feel like the internet is constantly trying to brand everything. I feel like parenting, you can be a mix of gentle when it's right and the situation is right. And you can be a mix of hard and you can give them some grit and some resilience and you

can be firm and you can be loving. I don't really think we need to like brand parenting. I agree. We had a woman. I agree. And there's not one way to do it. Oh yeah. I mean, when they say like, there's different, like all these different things, it's just like exhausting. It's like, fuck, I'm just trying to get through the goddamn day. I want to take a shower. This goes back to like, even wait, I think humans are really good at doing as much as they can to seek as much comfort as possible. What I like about weightlifting in the gym is it's a moment where you have to get uncomfortable to later be comfortable. And I think part of my job as a parent is to prepare my children for what the world is really like so that when they get hit with the reality of the world, when they leave the nest, they're not so shocked or surprised by what the world actually looks like. And I think

there's a lot of young people that I work with and that I see all the time, and I'm not so old, but just younger people. And I think it's always interesting for me to watch the people that struggle the most. And typically what they struggle with the most is they're out. They're just shocked that this is what the world is actually like. Like, no, it's not fair. You're competing with killers. It's hard. It's not going to be easy. You're going to feel sad. Yes. Things cost that much. Yes. You're going to have to figure out a way to pay for them. No, it's not going to be easy. No, you don't deserve it right now. And I think like the people that transition into that, the eases are the ones that have kind of had that upbringing. Like, okay,

the table has been set and the expectation has been set in reality. The ones that struggle, like, wait a minute, I didn't realize it was like this. I think that's a, that's something I think about all the time. We are like on the same page. So I don't know that I would, I don't, I mean, I'm not sure if social media would think this, but I don't know if I would call myself a gentle parent. In fact, I know I wouldn't. I am a very firm parent, but what I also am, like very firm, like I am the one when I say something, I recognize I'm doing them a disservice if I don't stick to it. So like if I say you're grounded, if I go back, like now that sucks because I have to be available when you're grounded. I have to stop my life

because I grounded you and you need to stay home, right? So that sucks. But also I said it. And if I don't stick to it, you're not going to understand the concept of consequences and life's going to suck for you when you leave my house, right? I am definitely not a gentle parent, but I am a very intentional parent, right? Love that. What I do, because I agree with you, but I think every kid needs something different. I have four kids. It's like I'm a different mom to all of them. My youngest does really well with gentle parenting because she's gentle and she's just different. My two middle ones, they need like the hammer dropped quite a bit more, you know, and they do better with that.

We're in for it, Michael. Yeah, you are what at going back to your story because i just want to tell you have this incredible story when do you and chris decide that you're going to divorce and if i'm fast tracking to that please fill in the blanks in between because you guys ended up getting divorced but it seems like and this is from social media so correct me if i'm, that you guys did it while still being friends. Yeah, we are still really great friends. So it's a long, windy, deep road, right? I think maybe one of the best ways to explain it is, Chris, maybe marriage was not really,

marriage was never a thing we were going to do. Let me just start there. We were never going to get married because we had a slightly different relationship than I know relationships to be now, right? So it was not like some of the relationships I've had in the most recent. It was very much a partnership. It was a friendship, a deep friendship. It was a partnership, but business was both of our number one priority. And I feel bad even saying that because as much as we... Yeah, if we wanted, I wish I could say kids and family were, but our career and the show and Chris's dream was really whatever. We were great parents around the show. We were great.

Like we did awesome vacations because of the show. But like the show and Chris's vision that he had was the center of all of it, right? And I was so desperate for love that I would have done anything. I didn't know who I was at the time still. I was still coming out of and naturally healing an eating disorder at this time because I was working with eating disordered people. We had the same disorder. It's just theirs was not, they couldn't hide it, right? Because they ate and they didn't, they weren't bulimic. So their scars were present. Mine were something I could hide.

But I slowly started coming out and talking about my eating disorder in the show with the people, which is freeing. Chris then learned about it as we were shooting the show. And that was healing for me. It also created more media. And I don't even want to say media because I don't want it. It was much harder when I was a face on the show for me and Chris for various reasons. Because I think in every relationship, you have your roles, right?

You have to understand. The roles are going to evolve over time. But you're clear on what your role in the relationship in your life is. And you're clear on what yours is. And I'm sure it's something you guys talk about. Yeah, she's always like, I'm the most talented face in this room. I just say I'm the star. Are we not clear?

And his mom also tells him too. So we got to remind him. But go on. Yeah. But I think it became hard because what was maybe Chris's role felt like it was intruded on by me because I was the leader of the home who literally ran this.

It's an organization. The home is with the nannies and whoever, right? Housekeeper. Because we were traveling all the time. And then I was the leader of finances. I was the one who managed our finances because I always had been. I was the leader of the business side.

So I was managing Chris. Then I had a brand and I was managing my brand, which was very hard. And then I was showing up on screen. That's a lot. And so it was a lot and it became really difficult for us. And I, as a little girl who never was allowed to have an opinion, started healing my eating disorder and other things through therapy. Suddenly I had an opinion and marriage felt hard.

It was the way we would say it is. There was almost like an infection. Like when you have an infection in the body, if you don't clean up that infection, right? It's going to spread to all the other parts of the body. In our life, everything was great. Our career was great. The kids were great. All the things were great.

Our family dynamic was phenomenal. Like it's still phenomenal. Like it was awesome. The marriage and the expectation that we placed on ourselves to be married and what it didn't look like. We didn't do date nights. We didn't, and I, it just became mucky. And it was something that had started to bleed

or spread to the other areas. And so we made the decision, we don't want to do that part. Like there's stress, there's, we were both not showing up in certain ways as our best selves because of the tension and the stress of pain that comes with marriage not just marriage but all the parts of marriage right and so we did we decided okay our original idea of we're never getting married because it does place a pressure, which we ended up getting married because I said, hold on, if we're going to have babies,

you have to marry me. It was more of a, it wasn't like a, I love you. Let's get married. It was like a, if we're going to do this family thing, society and religion says we need to be married. So you got to marry me. And you guys also had your lives on television with the world to see everything was public social media and and yeah so divorce we decided in 2019 that we were going to get divorced and we lived together for a full year so like it and it was great and we didn't tell anyone not no you were getting divorced no and we were going through it i mean the people our business partners like a healthy it sounds like it sounds like the partners knew. It was like a healthy, it sounds like, it sounds like. The kids knew. Everything was great. Just the marriage was just not it.

Yeah. And so by the time we decided to announce it in 2020, a full year later, we were already divorced. The kids had a full year to process without the world telling them how they should feel about divorce. And yeah, it's really great. Like he is, I was just at at his house I dropped the kids off last night he had me come in and try his baking creations and try this one he's just he's the

nicest guy yeah he seems like on social media he seems like very good vibes very nice when 2020 happens at what point do you do a podcast with Dave Hollis? How does that even transpire? So, well, what's funny is, yeah, I had flown in here because Dave was in Dripping Springs. Do you know this? Yes. Now that you're refreshing, I forgot that they were in Austin. Yeah.

I didn't realize you did the podcast in Austin. So July. Because we never met him, but we met Rachel and she was out here. Okay. So apparently the story is that dave was great but the story is dave had shown rachel june 20th or whenever chris and i had announced we didn't know each other he showed rachel the announcement was like i can't believe chris and heidi are getting married or divorced what you know because we all have an idea of how a

marriage looks when we don't know the reality. And then it was like a, he said, I feel like that was the beginning of the dismantling of our marriage. And I, it was like almost like maybe a subconscious, I don't know, dismantling or permission for their marriage to dismantle is how he felt. Well,

there's similarities now that you're talking. I mean, like if you put, if you put that kind of pub, what I always think is if you put that kind of public pressure is like being that thing to get personally, Lauren and I are very careful not to present that image. Like you don't see us skipping on a beach or holding hands or like,

like we talk and we work together. Everyone knows we're married and we've known each other for a long time, but like we don't do the, we don't present as like the perfect couple online. And it's never been our thing to do. It just feels like I don't need, you know, because those relationships aren't perfect. Yeah.

You know, and people go through shit. But it's hard when you have a network controlling the edits. I mean, there's a lot of different puppets in the kitchen there. Yeah. And even if you are a perfect couple, it's like, don't put it out there

because they kind of feel like it's a kiss of death. I don't want people calling it out. I'm, yeah. Everything is going terribly for us over here. Truly. No, but they, I mean, I'm just, I didn't know him to comment down. I'm, yeah. Everything is going terribly for us over here. Truly. No, but they, I mean, I'm just, I didn't know him, but I met her and I think we told her this when she was on the show. It was like this image of this thing and like telling other people how to be the thing.

And I was just like, well, that's a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it is. And there are similarities because, you know, Chris and Rachel were truly the ones with the vision and the brand. Right. Because Chris and Rachel were truly the ones with the vision and the brand. And Chris, when I stepped in in 2008, he had a decade or longer into his vision. So there was like, this was his. And so maybe it felt hard when I'm like, okay, here I'm benefiting off of...

Because I was only on screen, to be honest. It was me sitting here. Me sitting here, I, me sitting here and having anything the way that I have is truly because Chris, yes, I worked my ass off, you know, but I really have deep appreciation for him. Well, you need both. You need the visionary and you need the person that can help the visionary execute. It's rare to have one do all of it. Yeah. Yeah. And this was never my dream. So it's like he kind of, our life led us to this amazing thing and he, you know, is the cat. So Rachel and Dave, yes, he was kind of the, he came into public life later and I'm sure that made it very difficult because

it is hard, but yes. So I came, July 2020 is when I landed here in Austin to go do a podcast with Dave Hollis who wanted to podcast about divorce because I was already in Texas and I drove to his house because I didn't know if it was due. I had no idea what I was walking, drove to a house and pulled up and yeah, I asked him how we, I said, how are you doing? We didn't even know each other. How are you doing? And he said something like fucking shitty because divorce was going through or happening. And then we walked through, he started giving me a tour of the house and he said, he then broke down crying. And I said, okay, we're going to talk. We're not going to shoot a podcast. So I sat there because I'd been through at this point, two divorces. This was his first. And so we just, I was therapy for him for,

I don't even know how many hours, never recorded the podcast. And we just became safe, really safe, connected friends. And dating didn't happen for months after that. 15 on this show and this episode is incredible. It's going to blow your mind. What if I were to tell you that they discovered the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in 90 years and that this fatty acid actually protects us from aging, slows down the aging process, helps slow down all disease formation and could absolutely change your life immediately by just taking a simple supplement every single day. Well, C15 is the first essential fatty acid to be discovered in 90 years. And a new study has come out about the first new nutritional deficiency in 75 years called cellular fragility syndrome, which they found out is caused by a lack of the essential fatty acid C15. As many as one in three people worldwide may now have low C15 levels and cellular fragility syndrome, which can accelerate age-related breakdown, impair metabolic, liver, and heart health, and so much more. This is why I'm so excited to talk to you guys about Fatty 15 because the Fatty 15 supplement has more than three times the cellular

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live in with toxic chemical fragrance cleaning supplies that are doing harm to your system? We know this now. We have all of the information. What we also love about Branch Basics is it replaces all of the cleaning supplies in your house, so it's cost-effective. Of course, we have a special offer for our listeners and viewers. Save 15% on your starter kit or their new hand soap when you use code SKINNY at www.branchbasics.com. Again, that is code SKINNY for 15% off when you purchase a starter kit or their new gel hand soap at branchbasics.com. What do you do when you start dating someone who's in the public eye like that and is gone? Like it just, it seems like it's a lot. How do you even know how to handle it? There's no like sort of rule book for it. Yeah. Yeah. There's no rule book for it. And also I think I have only

known having social media and having a public relationship. So I didn't have social media until I was on a TV show. And so for me, it's like you go on a TV show, crap, I need to start up something called Facebook and Instagram, which is showcasing my family's life. It's all that I know. I can't really conceptualize 500 and whatever thousand, I don't know how many people that is. I don't know what 700,000 people on Facebook actually is. It's just, here's my life. People like it. So Dave, when he and I did keep it very quiet for a while, like, I don't know, eight months, we didn't even talk about our friendship for eight or nine months. And then by the time we talked about it, we had been dating for a handful of months. And again, it's kind of all he knew too,

right? Like the second he got social media, it was showcasing his family. So we both, maybe in hindsight, I'll say going forward, that will never happen again. Never. You're not going to put it on social media. I mean, if I'm getting married again, which I don't know if I'll do or not, I'm not saying no to anything, but I don't want anyone having an opinion on my relationship next time. It was awesome though. Dave and I, whatever chemistry was seen on camera was 10 times better in person. We were electric conversationally, emotionally. We had so much fun together. And so that was all real.

But I think some people have an easier time dealing with criticism than others. And that was really difficult for him. Like, I think that was the root of his depression was what people said online, where I don't even think I knew it existed. And I don't give two shits about what people said online where I don't even think I knew it existed and I don't give two shits about what people say online. I think it's not something that you can prepare for online. I

think it's either you're that way always or you're not. Meaning like, I don't think social media changes like if you can handle criticism or not. Like I remember being a kid and never giving a shit and you were probably the same way. And I more too i was raised with my dad i couldn't give a shit yeah i mean like i feel like if you're not being criticized you're not doing something right i was like i mean listen here's the deal i love you they're gonna be talking about this on the hayes i just know you know it goes everywhere but if you hear this like i already got it from her my whole life but But anyways, I think like doing what we do in, you know, in various capacities, I think the people that are not used to that,

regardless of social media that then start doing this, they have the biggest problem with it or the toughest time. It's like, and what I tell people is if you're going to have a tough time with that, do not put your life on the internet because you could be Mother Teresa and they're going to say something bad. Luckily for us, people only write really nice things about me all the time. Well, at least that's all that you see. Yeah, there's nothing on the internet that exists. No, I'm just joking. But I think if you're going to put yourself out in any public fashion at all or even try to build anything online the criticism and the jabs and the things it's just part of doing anything were you able to coach him through that and help him or do you think that you weren't

getting through to him which brings you to the beginning of the episode is you can tell people all these things but they're going to do what they want. Yes. So if someone would write a mean comment to him, would it just like throw his whole day off? It would. And I couldn't figure out at the beginning of our relationship why sometimes he would just be in his phone. And at first I was like, oh, do I not? No, it was because there are certain hate sites that I know exist. But like, to me, it doesn't exist if I don't see it. It's kind of like in the Lion King, you know, it's like everything that touches the light,

it is like, what about that elephant bone? Or is it, you don't go to the elephant bone yard. That's it. That's it. Like one of the things I had, and I think he and I, this is going to sound, I can't believe I'm going to say this, but I'm going to tell you, I was joking at one point, but serious. We would kind of joke about this. I said, I feel like I got a,

like not an actual STD, but like a public life STD when you and I started dating, because there were so many haters that then attached to me. And then I, like the, you know, bone graveyard light was shined on the bone graveyard. And I'm like, oh my, I didn't even know. I had no idea that level of hatred and meanness existed and so I quickly was like okay shutting that light out because I'm reading this awesome book called a happy pocket full of money I don't know if you've read it oh it's so good basically says an object something doesn't exist unless someone is there to observe that it exists right that's what I do you have to read this book. I called it Oblivion.

I just am oblivious. I don't think it exists. What are you talking about the bone graveyard? I'm like, what bone graveyard? I've never looked there. And the words will have impact. So if I read the words, I know myself to know it'll impact me. Yes, that's exactly how I feel.

So I'm not going to read them. If I go and scroll on social media this is what's going to happen if i scroll on tiktok too long this is what's going to happen so let's do the math equation and not do it yes it's so it's it's literally that stove we have been burned i would tell my some of my employees would you know then they would be on a camera shot and something would happen and they knew about this hate site because Dave knew about the hate site. So it kind of was this toxic environment for a minute because of the hate sites and everyone knew about it

because Dave was really affected by them. But my thing to them would say, okay, everyone, we've all been burned. The stove burned us. It's freaking hot. We have the choice now. Are we going to go turn the stove on again and touch it? Or are we going to like back away?

Like we, that is a hot stove. Do we touch it or do we not? We get to choose. Do we want to be happy or do we want to be miserable? That's the most eloquent explanation of how I personally deal with the criticism on the internet. It's like, don't touch the stove. Yes.

Yeah, but it's not even just the internet it's like life yeah but still you you have the power to ignore energy yes if it's negative you can you can rise above it don't absorb it yes but even the way you speak to yourself like you know i i've told people that i think if you're gonna try to build anything in your life or if you want to be the moment you start speaking poorly to yourself is the moment you derail like what you say to yourself probably i i know sometimes in my own life that i can come off a certain way but i'm just so adamant on not speaking to myself in a poor way because i know if i do that's that will become my reality so it's not that i don't i can't i can acknowledge shortcomings but if that becomes my consistent pattern in the way,

like, oh, I'm a failure, or I'm not a good this, or I'm not a good that, that becomes your reality. So do you think that the hate site was becoming the narrative in his head? Well, I think in order for a hate site to become the narrative in your head, the narrative already has to exist. And so I don't know, like, I have ideas of, I'm sure everything comes from life and growing up and whatever it is, parts of his life. I think he, you never got to meet him. He truly was always

trying to make everyone happy. Like he was so fun. He was so kind. He was such a giver. Truly. Like I had someone tell me the other day, said Dave was like your magic carpet like he like carried you around he lifted me you guys I felt the most beautiful the most loved all of this when Dave and I were together for the first time in my life I felt dated I felt taken care of I felt like I I like there were times where I'm like I think he he's made my head too big because he just made me feel like I was the most valuable thing on the planet. Now, in hindsight, maybe part of him did that because he really craved that. So I like to believe I did the same for him in the final years of his life. But I'm the same way, right?

So it's like the places we lacked as a child maybe is where we overcompensate as we're developing and growing and trying to find who we are and so maybe he was always giving others and me what he really wanted himself that he didn't feel like he was getting right you think you mentioned you were a fixer do you think you're trying to fix him looking back? I don't know that I knew at the beginning what there was to, I don't think I knew at the beginning what there was. Let me just say that. I didn't know it's public that he seeked treatment himself for alcohol about a year before he passed. And so I feel okay saying that. I don't think I realized there was alcohol involved at that capacity until just a couple months prior to him seeking treatment. So

his and my connection actually didn't feel like there was anything to fix. In fact, we had talked about at the beginning, like, oh my gosh, what's it going to be like to be inside of a relationship that doesn't need to be fixed, right? And there were, it's just, it hadn't really come to surface yet. And I had my things that I needed to grow on and learn. But yeah, I, by the time maybe those things had come out truly, you know, they say it's not the width that matters, it's the depth of the relationship. So it wasn't the amount of time he and I were together. In that small two and a half year window, the depth felt like we'd been together for 20 years because just emotionally we were like,

and intellectually we connected. Is it weird that you guys were both with, you both had divorces and then you're both with people who are well-known and you guys are well-known. Is the dynamic of that weird? Having all of you guys well-known and famous and i don't know i don't i would call you guys like celebrity entrepreneurs all of you it didn't feel weird because it's all we knew it actually was very it felt very comfortable and natural it felt like he

because he did he saw me more than anyone had ever seen me in my life. He understood. That makes sense to me. Even that, like, it's like, oh, we, we understand our divorces were similar in many ways, different than others. It would be weirder for both of you to date people that had not experienced the things that you guys had experienced in a public way. Yeah. So there was compassion for what I might be feeling. I had compassion when he had a hard time with criticism because it's like, oh man, that would suck, right? I don't mean to diminish it, but the average person that doesn't put themselves out there in a public way is not going to be able to relate to thousands of strangers commenting on your life

on the internet constantly. Unless you've been through it, I don't think you can relate to it. It's true. Yeah. And, and also there was something awesome about, I felt like, you know, you always wonder what other people's motives are in dating and it's like, do they like me for who I am or do they like me for what they see online? I think because Dave had that same fear and we both got to be like, here's who I really am. I like to feel like I'm the same on and off camera, but it's nice because he wasn't with me for who,

regardless of what some of the hate sites would say, he wasn't with me for, he was truly with me because we loved each other so much. Were you guys together when he passed away no separated he and I had I haven't really talked about this much but he and I had broken up a handful of times maybe maybe actually only a couple too but even after we broke up it was like we couldn't stay away from each other. The chemistry was just too strong.

And the breakups were, I mean, I think just there's the obvious he's in Texas. I'm in Arizona. We have kids that are different ages. We never really got to a point where we were talking about getting married because it just wasn't going to be a thing, right? Like he's not going to uproot his kids and his ex-wife. I'm not going to uproot mine. I have two dads in Arizona. And so really, we never really got past the soul connection and like the best friendship I've ever had in my life. We never really got past, and like the best like romantic connection, everything. But like building a life wasn't even a thing

we really ever talked about. We would kind of dream about it sometimes, but we're like, no, it's not really realistic. So I don't, I think we knew from the beginning that was going to be hard. And then when some of the challenges that he was dealing with came up, it wasn't even like I broke up with him. It was like, I think he knew too that the things he was dealing with, I could be a friend to him. But when I was a lover or a partner in that way, it actually hinders healing because then I believe they start to make the decisions to heal for me. Right.

Instead of for them. And so we had broken up and then he went into treatment. And this was in 2022, beginning of 2022. And we would all, I mean, we never stopped talking, not one single day until the day, the night he died, never stopped talking and very long, deep, amazing conversations. It's just, they would shift. I will say towards the end of his life, it was more, maybe more real for him that it was a thing that wasn't going to last forever. And that was really difficult. I actually, I didn't, I don't think anyone knew what he had passed up till, you know, things came back, but I actually went, I heard people say online and I was like, I think he died of a broken heart. I think it just was hard to accept

the reality that he and I were never, we were never gonna have a life together. And it was hard for me. That's why I kept, it's like, even though we knew, I couldn't imagine my life without him. Like I, when he died, I like the first day I was like, it was almost like days sober like I was like one day without Dave check I had to like it's overwhelming when he passed away and you see all these salacious headlines that are so gross and all like do you have to get off the internet I mean I feel like if I was your friend I would say get off the internet and do what you're doing and just check off the days because it's the internet makes so much shit up. Yeah. And the it's like so salacious. Yeah. How do you handle that? So I didn't read anything. I actually didn't go on Instagram for a month and a half. Yep. Good for you. But it was more because I was so heartbroken. Like I, it was really hard. It was harder to lose Dave

than anyone in my life. I mean, I lost my dad and that was hard. Like the hardest thing I'd ever experienced. Losing Dave was, I don't, I don't know. You know, I feel like the only thing harder could be losing a kid i mean when you have chemistry with someone like that yeah and it sounds like he lifted you up so much he did yeah again this it's such a unique thing that you've been through to also have to do it in front of the world yeah it's like you you don't it's you don't even really have anyone that you can relate to or call in because it's it's kind of weird. Yeah. It's interesting. We've met a lot of people in the space. We never got to meet him, but people

that we know that knew him, everybody says similar things to what you're saying. And even Rachel came on the show and was singing his praises, which says a lot to his character. Yeah. He was so funny, you guys. You've never met a funnier person like just so charismatic he would have everyone in the room like his in-person his in-person attraction attractiveness is just humongous because of his light and his energy but yeah so I did go offline I for I was like I need to be here for me and my kids my My kids had gotten really close to him too. Even, I mean, the day he died, technically, I think it was the night of the 11th, but you know, it's birthday. And he had sent him the nicest, most generous Amazon gift card with the sweetest, I mean, a text that long,

just about how proud he was. And he sent me a screenshot. And that day he had actually sent this whole, it was like his soul knew it was time because he sent me the most insightful, like, hey, you know, coming to grips with where you and I are, it doesn't mean, like, I'm not just losing you. You're not just losing me.

We're losing our kids. You know? And just, like, telling me how much I meant to him and how much I loved him and how much he appreciated. You guys, it was the most beautiful day of text messages and phone conversations ever. Well, can you imagine if you didn't have that? That's so special that you have that. I'm not kidding you. There is closure with him.

The most beautiful closure, our conversation we had right before he went to bed that night. And yeah, I feel complete. And it could have, gosh, I think I'm like, man, this is why they say, never go to bed mad at your spouse. Never.

We weren't spouses, but never go to bed holding a grudge. I believe that fully. Like grudges take energy. And if that person dies, no matter how much you hate them or dislike them today, I can't imagine how painful that would feel, right? But to know that he passed, I kind of felt like I got to hold his hand to the other side is how I felt. I think that's good advice.

When I ask you to bring up my neck pillow and you act like I've asked you to hike Mount Everest. Just do and be honored. Yeah. Be honored. Do not hold a crush. I bring the fucking neck pillow up every time. Hold on. There's six neck pillows. So I get, I bring. They're in a warmer. They're in a warmer.

Bring her the right one. Read her mind. I carry two in the night. She's like, that's the wrong one. There's certain different ones. One's lavender. One's different. That is amazing.

When you look at where you are now, what can we all expect following you now? Because I feel like you've had an evolution on social media. I've really enjoyed following you. Where is Heidi now in this moment? How do you feel? You look amazing. Thank you. I actually feel really amazing, but I feel amazing, I think, because I stopped doing anything for anyone else. Good for you. And Dave's, right before he passed, he and I were working through, he was helping me work, figure out how to, my load was so heavy. There were so many employees and so many expenses and so much over.

It was just, I was burning the candle at both ends, doing events and challenges and app and supplement, all these things. And I didn't see my kids as much as I wanted. So that was, he knew I was trying to get to a point where that wasn't the case, even if it meant living a smaller life, right? And I had made the decision to shut everything down. He knew this.

And then, and I would go back in, I'd be like, okay, I'm going to shut it down. No, no, no, I'm not. No, no. Because there was fear associated with that. Him dying was like, I always say it's like the nail in the coffin of my old life. Like that was the moment where I'm like, okay, I never know when my last day is going to be. Life is so fragile. I do not want to go out this way. If I died today, I would not be proud of the kind of mom that I am. I wouldn't be proud of who I'm being to myself. I'd be proud of who I'm being to everybody else, but I wouldn't be proud of how I'm being to myself. So it needs to change. And I took a massive leap of faith,

shut everything down except for a few core things that required little to no energy. It's crazy because I thought I was going to be losing money. I'm not. I'm still making money somehow. I'm net positive each month, but I also am only doing the things that light me on fire. Good for you. That's it. And if it means just a podcast, great. And my app and my supplement company, but I'm not doing all of the things that took tons of energy and took me away from my kids. I love being with my kids.

My relationship with my kids these days is better than it's ever been. I could, let's knock on wood. If I went today, if my time was today, I would be so proud of where I'm at. I would not want to leave my kids, but I also feel like they'd be fully loved and prepared. And so on social media, what can you expect? Just me. And I'm not going to tell you what that's going to look like. And your show. Yeah, yeah. What's your show? Tell us your show.

It's called Heidi's Lane. So my name's really Heidi Lane. It's just, it was Powell from Chris and I in the show. It never got changed to Heidi Powell. So kind of the slow transition, the association with my name, Heidi's Lane. It sounds like- And you don't know what you're going to get. I love this, that your new fresh energy

has to do with a little bit of Dave's maneuvering. It sounds like he's gotten you to this place and you could thank him for that. For sure. Well, you look beautiful. I love following you. Your energy is amazing. And if anyone who's listening is looking to get into building muscle or weightlifting or tips or positivity

or inspiration, I think they all have to go follow you. Where can everyone find you? Pimp yourself out. All of my social medias, Instagram, Facebook, even TikTok. I'm not on there that much. It's at Real Heidi Powell. My podcast is Heidi's Lane. Thank you for doing the show.