The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Hormone Regulation, Modern Medicine, & Personal Well Being Ft. Dr. Craig Koniver & Keli Koniver

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

#696: Today we're sitting down for the third time with Craig & Keli Koniver. Craig Koniver, MD, the founder of Koniver Wellness, has been practicing Performance medicine for over 14 years. Keli Koniver, has an MBA from The Citadel & a Doctorate in Health Administration from The Medical University of South Carolina. Keli is the founder of Koniver Aesthetics in Charleston, SC. She has advanced training and certifications in an array of energy treatments to include lasers and radio frequency microneedling. With over a decade of hands-on experience, Keli is considered one of the most experienced Ultherapy® practitioners in the country. They join us today for a conversation on hormone therapy, Ozempic, skincare, and taking charge of your own health.   To connect with Craig Koniver click HERE To connect with Keli Koniver click HERE To connect with Koniver Aesthetics click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To Watch the Show click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  This episode is brought to you by Armra ARMRA Colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, activates hair growth and skin radiance, and powers fitness performance and recovery. Visit www.tryamra.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase.. This episode is brought to you by Hiya Health Hiya Health fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diet to provide full-body nourishment our kids need with a yummy taste they love. Go to hiyahealth.com/skinny to receive 50% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by Caraway Ditch the chemicals with Caraway. Visit carawayhome.com/SKINNY to receive 10% off your next purchase. This episode is brought to you by Sun Bum Visit sunbum.com and use code SKINNY15 at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Prolon Get 10% off your 5-day nutrition program at prolonlife.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by Salt & Stone Visit saltandstone.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase.   Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

I'm a huge fan of, you know, educating oneself and listening to people talk about studies and, Potential, him and her. I'm a huge fan of, you know, educating oneself and listening to people talk about studies and, you know, relaying that information in an articulate way. But the only way you're going to know is you've got to get off the sideline, you've got to get in the game, and you've got to try things, right? And if you don't try things, then how will you ever know? And I don't like this whole arena where you have to ask permission so much that we can try something. No one is sovereign over you except yourself. So we see a lot of that. We see a lot of hair loss,

but overall, I think people really like it. We do a lot more body contouring now because people have lost the weight and now they wanna tone up. So we do muscle strengthening, toning, firming type treatments. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. Today, I'm really excited to announce for the third time, two of our favorite people,

two of our favorite guests, Dr. Craig Conover and his lovely wife, Kelly Conover. For those of you that are unfamiliar with Dr. Craig, he is the founder of Conover Wellness, has been practicing performance medicine for over 14 years. His wife, Kelly, has an MBA from the Citadel and a doctorate in health administration from the Medical University of South Carolina. Kelly is also the founder of Conover Aesthetics. This duo works hand in hand, both on the aesthetic side and the medical side, to give us all of the best health, skincare, wellness advice. And Lauren and I have known this couple for years now. Whenever I have a medical issue, whenever Lauren has a medical issue, whenever we're going to get deep into skin, we call them up. We have them on speed dial at this point, and we're always badgering them

about all sorts of stuff. We love having them on the podcast because we cover so many different topics with them every time they come on. On this episode, we're talking all about the issues with modern day medicine, all things female hormones and menopause. We're talking about TRT, the pros and cons, the ozempic craze, navigating diagnoses and when to take them seriously and when to kind of tap into your own power. We talk about the truth about taking collagen, the healthiest, well-rounded diet, so many different things, EMFs. This is an episode for anyone that wants to live better, feel better, understand more about themselves, understand more about the medical industry. With that, Dr. Craig, Kelly,

welcome back to The Skinny Confidential, him and her show for the third time. This is The Skinny Confidential, him and her. I would like to kick this conversation off with talking about a whole 360 approach to health. Because when I say that you're my doctor, I don't mean like the doctor that people are thinking in their head where I go for a yearly checkup and see a never. I'm talking with you and over text. It's a very like wellnessy approach. How would you describe all the touch points that you do from a 360 perspective? I think for me, it's about building relationships, you know, and I think the way I look at it, part of my job, what I enjoy doing in the passion is helping empower people

to be sovereign over the choices they make. And, you know, a kicker that I've been on recently is just, you know, kind of calling out the truth of things. You know, we, we, we are being poisoned, you know, like literally poisoned with the food, the environment, with all the non-native EMFs. And like, you know, as a country, we spend the most amount on healthcare and we have the worst outcomes, right? And if we look statistically greater than 50% of adults in the united states overweight tired depressed on multiple pharmaceuticals and that is the standard of care and so for me it's like if i can get to know the people i work with well we can transcend all that and cut through that and find

solutions and it's it's a journey of solutions and everyone has different goals everyone's an individual everyone comes to it with you know some people want to lose weight and some people want to work on their skin and some people want to detox and there's just so many options. But I think what I'm enjoying now is really getting kind of to the crux of why are we, you know, lying and being a medical professional and being a part of that. And we saw that with the whole COVID thing too. I think there's a lot of skepticism now around medical professional and being a part of that. And we saw that with the whole COVID thing too. I think there's a lot of skepticism now around medical care and people don't know who to believe or what to believe. I think a lot of people that were considered skeptics have been proven right in many cases. And it was a very divisive time and people are now just like, well, then who the

hell do you believe? And what are the things we should be paying attention to or not? Where do you start with all that and land with all that? Because I don't want to diminish the entire medical community, but I think there's a lot of skepticism now because a lot of people that were maybe in positions of authority have maybe misled some people. And I think people became aware of that. And now people are like, well, then what the hell is the truth yeah I think it's hard I think it's hard because you have the conventional medical people's you know which is dictated by the pharmaceutical model and not that

there's anything wrong with that right I mean the modern day medicines are great and they serve a purpose then you have a lot of the fitness gurus people who are telling you you have to work out and be exhausted every day to, you know, meet your goals and fast and do all these crazy things and get in a sauna every day and cold plunge. And it's all data driven. And it's very hard for people to know like what's authentic. And that's why I'm a big fan of like, you know, letting people experience stuff. And, and I think the key though is, you know, people finding harmony within themselves by trying things. And I think this idea that, okay, I have to go put my foot on the gas all day long to be

healthy and seek some measures like longevity markers doesn't make a lot of sense. So to answer that question more directly, I think it's by direct experience, right? Like everyone has to figure that out for themselves and that can be hard for people, right? And that's the trouble is a lot of people, you know, in our society from a power position, like you're saying, have given us misleading information and it's very challenging for people to know what's right. But I think, you know, I don't think people have to say, I'm going to see my doctor just because they're on the corner, they take my insurance. I think we can get beyond that. I think we can find people that we relate to who seem

interested in helping people. And there's a lot of great people out there. I think what's so great about you is you do feel like it's a curated, customized experience tailored to meet the patient's needs and wants. And I think the personalization is so important. Do you get pushback from the medical community on your avant-garde way of doing things? I have gotten pushback. Yeah. How do you handle it? Recently. It's confirming and reaffirming that I'm on the right path. Yeah. I know that we are here to help people find solutions authentic solutions and and getting pushback shows that we're disrupting something and i like that you

know and so we kind of operate on an island to ourselves and that's good you know because i again getting really authentic and real with people is really important right because if we're just going to stay at the surface level and say oh you need all of these drugs and processed foods and, you know, crazy exercise to be healthy, that's just not true. And most people can't keep up with that. So to answer your question, yeah, we definitely get pushback.

What are things that you're doing for your clients that you see working on a big mass scale? I think what we're good at is being there with people to, you know, help map out, you know, help map out. For example, we keep it really practical. Someone wants to lose weight. And we can talk about, okay, you're here, point A, and you want to get all the way over here to point B to lose weight. And you want to lose 10 pounds or 20 pounds. And for everyone, that's a little different. And so we don't want to use generic advice, which is, oh, you know, change up your diet, work out more. But it's going to take a lot of zigs and zags and go different ways. And so what I think we're good at is providing solutions and then being there when things don't go well and going awry or, you know, needing to edit the plan. And that trust that we form and that rapport is really important because really the moment it works is when someone wants it to work for themselves right like when that light bulb goes off and says i can do this and that there's tons of options and i want to be sovereign over the choices i make that's when it works it

doesn't work you know the paternalistic medicine the model in medicine doesn't work where the doctor's saying you have to do this right we've seen we're failing at that but it does work when the patient raises their hand and say, I feel empowered to make choices in my life that, you know, I really want to see a positive impact. One, like we have a personal relationship.

So I feel like it's the first time in my life that with a doctor, I feel like I can say what I'm actually thinking and feeling. If that makes sense. I think some people get intimidated going to the doctor and you're in this office and you're letting them do that. So we have that rapport. And then my second follow-up was like, Kelly, you have a much different relationship, but in the relationship you have with Dr. Craig, how do you utilize his expertise? Because I think that's going to be revealing in the way that people could potentially think about tapping in

to a doctor with this experience. Well, sure. So on the skin side, I mean, that's just the outward reflection, right? So it all comes back to what's going on on the inside, not just from a health perspective, but a mental perspective as well. So I think it all, that's our entire approach, you know, is that it's this inside out approach to health and wellness, and that's then reflected in the skin so i pull him in routinely if a patient is struggling with acne we've tried a host of different topical ingredients maybe we've done a laser treatment they're not getting results we want to look at the blood work but i mean also for you personally like if you're feeling like do you just it's is he your doctor? Oh, yeah. He's my doctor. What kind of doctor?

Are we talking like porn doctor? He's my doctor. So we met in 2015. Kelly was my patient. And then very shortly after that, I fired her. I literally fired her as a patient. I said to her, I'm going to fire you as a patient because I want to ask you out. That's correct.

So you were into it. Not as much as him, of course. Yeah. But yeah, this is the trick. You always make sure that they like you out. That's correct. So you were into it. Not as much as him, of course. Yeah. Of course. This is the trick. You always make sure that they like you more than you like them.

I never want to, like, you can love me way more than I love you. Like, that's how it always needs to be. I think that's good. I think that's a good policy. Yeah.

I think it works well. Someone's going to call me sexist now. Yeah. Never. Oh, good. So, but what I'm saying is like, because I guess what I'm trying

to get at is like the things that i would ask you or bring to you because the relationship we have is different than any doctors i've had before but i would imagine with you and i think it's informative because some people maybe sometimes they have an issue and they just don't feel as confident or comfortable tapping in or like when are the times you actually go to him and say okay like i need some medical advice here pretty daily because because I'm dealing with what I think is early, like perimenopause. So all of the things that go along with that hair loss, I've lost two thirds of my hair since December, just fatigue, mental things, you know? So I've gone to him a lot for that recently.

He's done blood work, check my estrogen, et cetera, et cetera. Is that where you start first with the blood? Is that, do you typically do that or is it? I mean, it depends. Yeah. I mean, some of the blood work is probably, in my view, is probably overdone by doctors and probably unnecessary. But if it makes the patient feel like, okay, we're doing something that's good. In Kelly's case, checking her hormones is really important because she is going through that kind of transitional time where things get weird, funky from a hormonal perspective. And we need that objective data. Why do you think that your hair is falling out? You think it's from premenopause? I do. Yeah. That, stress. I had two major bouts of sickness,

COVID, the flu, sickest I've ever been. She had the flu two months ago, so sick. I think these viruses are ramping up, it feels like. I mean, I don't know, maybe it's just age, but it feels like. I thought that was just us. When the kids going to school, I was like, I think they bring home the plague. Don't even say that though,

because we haven't gotten sick in a while. Don't even say that. No, but for a couple of months ago, I was like, I'm done, just phone it in. Shut it all down. Wait, I have a question that I feel this is the perfect question for both of you. When you come to him and say, I'm losing hair, I feel like I'm getting premenopausal.

Do you put her on hormones? Like, is that, does that mean it's time for a hormone intervention? Not yet. He didn't say. Well, we're about to. I mean, she's about to start progesterone, which is common because for women, just elemental level, the first hormone to decline for females is progesterone. Most women won't be able to keep up with progesterone demands starting in their 30s,

certainly in their 40s. Kelly's going to be, what, 44? A couple weeks. Yeah. And so that's common for women to have a lower progesterone output during the month. And that progesterone is so important to balance estrogen. If you get estrogen dominant, it can lead to a whole host of things. Progesterone, we're talking about bioidentical progesterone, very safe, works very well. Talk to us about TRT. Testosterone? Yeah. I don't want it. It

breaks me out. Yeah. It's challenging for women. I mean, men love it and it's great for women too. I mean, testosterone, it's a bio-social hormone, so it's unique. It's like the locker room effect. So the more testosterone you're around, actually you can raise your testosterone, which is interesting. But I think of testosterone really being beneficial for the nervous system first. So typically a man will come in, men start to lose testosterone in their 30s, 40s, same as like women progesterone. And they start get depressed cranky don't sleep as well not confident obviously physical things they don't recover as easily harder to keep lean muscle mass they can gain weight decrease in libido and these are all very real things and you know for a long time men were told this is just aging

suck it up testosterone is a very powerful hormone and it's yeah does it make you grow a small penis clit because my friend went on it and maybe she took too much and she told me that her clit like grew is this true i think anything's possible barn i guess it's true for your friend that's what i'm gonna say I just wanted to know if it's something that happens regularly. I don't hear this from people. Maybe they're taking too much. Yeah, I mean, I think anything's possible. There's going to be feedback loops.

Okay. Right? And so there's feedback loops from the brain to the genitals that, you know, it could work both ways. But let's, I want to actually stay on this topic for a while. My friend, actually, we're at dinner last night and my friend goes, actually, I'm not going to say put the blast, the gym on blast, but if you're in Austin, it's like one of the more fit community that people know the gym we're talking about. Okay.

And he was saying that like a lot of the guys in there are like raving about TRT and love it. And when I was, when I told him and I did a post the other day and I got some people writing questions like, are you on TRT? And I said, not yet. I'm sure that I will be one day at some point. My perspective is that I'm holding off now until I feel some of the symptoms that you're talking about until we do our blood work and get into that. You are cranky sometimes.

Yeah. Well, I'm cranky sometimes. Maybe I'll do TRT then. But what I was saying is I think that there, and we've talked about that, is there's a real place and time for it, but that also people could maybe abuse it or start too early when not necessary. And I want you to talk about that is there's a real place in time for it, but that also people could maybe abuse it or start too early when not necessary. And I want you to talk about that both for men and women. Cause what I told this guy is he's young and I was like, I don't think you need to do that. There's other things you can do before that. I remember I had a patient, he was like, I don't know, mid twenties. This was many years ago, college athlete. And he got started probably at the age 17 or 18 taking testosterone and taking growth hormone

right and so he felt like superman and so for years he could wake up do a really intense workout get gains not feel sore and do it every day and it was awesome and it was great for him and then he got involved in a relationship and he wanted to have a child. It's very challenging to maintain healthy sperm production when you're on exogenous testosterone because the testosterone you're taking will shut down the signaling from your brain and then your testicles don't make proper sperm. Wow.

Yeah. And so here he is in his mid-20s and we had to pull him off. And typically what happens when you pull someone off those things, they crash. And he really suffered. I mean, he felt what do you what what can you do so you can take other things this is where we use medicines like clomid or clomiphene hcg there's botanical herbs you're trying to just support the whole hormonal system but there's going to be a fall

off from your perspective then and i guess you can't prescribe a specific age because everyone's different but typically when are when's the moment when you would go to one of your patients and say, okay, now's the time to maybe intervene with this tool. I think when they're symptomatic. So, and again, I see it presenting with, you know, their nervous system, right? And so they'll get fatigued because I've been on testosterone for a good, I don't know, 15, 20 years. And when it's low or I've been off, I can't stay awake during

the day. I get cranky. It's harder to laugh. It's harder to feel good and positive. You don't sleep well. And so you start to see that from a man's perspective. Women are different. Women don't have those same types of feelings, but women will measure their hormones. For a female, we think their total testosterone should be 40 or higher. That's where it should be. Most women are way less than that. And so they tend to be, again, we're trying to like say, the way you feel is related to the level of this hormone or that hormone. So for women, it can be similar, decrease in muscle mass, gaining weight, brain fog, just not feeling that confident. The challenge with women, like Kelly said, is some women's skin is sensitive to testosterone. So if they take it, now they're going to break out, get oily skin, acne, facial challenge with women like kelly said is some women's skin is sensitive to testosterone so if

they take it now they're going to break out get oily skin acne facial hair things like that oh that's and so you just have to find that balance yeah it's a balance so women a lot of women can do well with testosterone just sparingly once or twice a week whereas men don't really tend to care about acne and oily skin what about the pellet that people put in? I'm not a fan of pellets. Okay. Can you speak on that? Yeah. So pellets would be a convenience way, right? So you're taking a pellet of hormones, usually testosterone, estrogen are used. They're administered under the skin. And the idea is they're long acting. So they're going to sit there for a while and slowly over time kind of deposit the hormone into the bloodstream.

Problem is I've seen a lot of problems. One, people have gotten abscesses from administering, getting the pellets inside their skin. You get very high levels. My main problem is you get super, super high levels of hormones. I like to mimic what's happening in nature as we do hormone replacement. And never in nature would you come across that much testosterone or that much estrogen at one time. You just wouldn't, but people like it. So a lot of guys look at pellets and they're like, I'm Superman. You are, but then there's usually a fallout and it's hard to maintain. And for men, a lot of them really like the trajectory of I'm at a low testosterone. Now I'm at a super high and that steep curve is like I can tackle the world but then they plateau or they decline they're like well it's not working well it is it's just you

had you know unrealistic goals so I think there's a lot of reasons not to use pellets the mini penis clit was from a pellet so it could have been way too much that makes sense and I think this brings me to my next question the other, I saw this thing about this doctor talking about semi-glutide. Is that how you say it? Semi-glutide, yeah. Semi-glutide.

It's like one of the brand names, yeah? Yeah, it's one of the brand names. That's so generic. So Ozempic. But she was saying she does not like the Ozempic pen because it's one

size fits all. Sure. She prefers to use semi-glutide as a microdose. Sure. I think I sent it to you to get your opinion for the podcast. That's what we've been doing for a couple of years. Okay. Can you explain the differences between that? Yeah. So semiglutide or ozempix, that's where it started a couple of

years ago. FDA approved for type two diabetics to help with blood sugar management. And what they found is that people were losing weight. And so then people caught on to that and doctors started prescribing it for not just diabetics, for anyone wanting to lose weight and it's comes it, the, it's a brand name medicine comes in a pen, a click pen, and, and the, it's actually a peptide, the ozempic, so it's, it's actually, it's not, that is not the, you know, patent form, it's the pen is what's patented. That's why it's a brand name. And a lot of these drugs get put in pens so that they can be a brand name medicine. So what was found is very convenient. Once a week shot into the subcutaneous tissue,

people reliably lose weight. With that one, the Ozempic, the semaglutide tends to be more nausea and then constipation. And then there's version 2.0, which is Bonjourno or Terzepetide, which we use a lot more of. Less nausea, less side effects, but faster weight loss. And the idea with getting a compounded form is just like you're saying, we can play around with the dosages. We don't have to be at a set dose. It makes it so much easier. So again, we're going back to what you guys started with, like how do we feel like we're different? We want to walk the walk with patients. And so we want to be there for them, even if they're two weeks in and, oh my goodness, I'm not losing weight. Can we adjust it? Sure. Let's tweak it. We don't have to use the

same set doses and we just follow them over time. It's been great for people, very reliable. I know there's, it's controversial, right? Like people are like, I don't want to do it because it's unsafe. I think it's very safe in the short term for most people, which is for most people, it's going to be less than a year now. We have people who have been on it for more than a year. What we don't want to see is people losing facial fat, muscle loss, hair thinning. Those are very real things. Fatigue. So you've seen it working if you use it in a micro-dosed way. For sure. And then some people, once they reach the weight loss they want to, they can maintain it in kind of a micro-dose, like you're saying, like a smaller dose once a week, once every couple

weeks. Because what it does is it slows down your gut transit time of food. And so it's going to slow down. It's going to make you feel more full. And then psychologically, what's interesting is people aren't thinking as about food as much. So we have a clinic in London and the people in London have told me what they like about it is it's very social, right? Everyone's going out to dinner every night. Food is always on their mind. And when they started taking terzapatide or ozempic,

they're not thinking about food. Now they're freed up to think about other things. It's really interesting. It seems like it takes the food noise down. But another thing it seems like that I'm hearing from a lot of people behind the scenes is it also really works on insulin resistance, which it seems like a lot of us have because of the food in our world. resistance per se. I think it decreases your food intake. So then you're going to make better food choices. You're not going to eat as many carbs. And if you're not eating as many carbs, you're not going to have the same insulin response. So I think it's more proactive that way versus

behind the scenes. I think there's a catch term about insulin resistance. It exists for sure. And it can lead to type two diabetes, but I don't know if that's being addressed. I mean, certainly someone who's diabetic or pre-diabetic is obese. I'm sure Ozempic, Terzapotide is going to help with that. But I think if we look at how's it helping, you're just eating less food. You all know that we are constantly looking for ways

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or use code him and her at checkout. Caraway, non-toxic cookware made modern. I have a question for both of you. Now post-pandemic, don't want to look at too controversial. Do you feel that the medical community, like pre-pandemic, post-pandemic has changed compared? I mean, you've been doing this a long time and you've both been around this a long time.

Do you feel there's a difference or do you feel it's kind of like business as usual or that there's been a change? With doctors in general? Just doctors in general and the general consensus in the medical community. Because I feel like there was a lot of divisiveness in that community. And, you know, it's kind of now, like, I feel like people kind of just like, we went through all that and now it's like, oh, okay, it's over. And we're all just like business as usual. But I imagine there's a ripple effect that I'm wondering if you've felt or not. I think that, you know, after the pandemic, certainly a gift of that or silver lining

is people are paying more attention to their health and they're more aware of their immune system not wanting to get sick and what can they do to help prevent that so probably a little bit there's been an increase in hey maybe i need to take vitamins or maybe i'm open to supplements i think from the medical establishment side though i don't i don't think there's much change i think it's you know and there's some some bad things that happen you know those vaccines we don't need to get into them, but you know, they were fast-tracked by the FDA. We should get into them. Yeah. I'm happy to. They're fast-tracked by the FDA. And it looks like the trend now is we've opened the door for pharmaceutical companies to fast-track medicines that have never been tested, really not approved for the greater good

of the collective society. Now that was a big fail in my opinion. If we look at the data coming from the vaccines, and again, I just don't believe in the mandates. I think people need to be sovereign over their choices, not being told that they have to take this or that. That's a big deal. If we're opening the door to the FDA approving these pharmaceuticals, and by the way, the pharmaceutical companies dominate the United States landscape in terms of politics. They're the largest lobby dominate the United States landscape in terms of politics. They're the largest lobby in the United States. They're very powerful. We are a society that's hooked on these medicines.

And so now we've opened the door for not just medicines, but more vaccines. And you're going to see way more vaccines for medical conditions now because of the COVID vaccine. And this has been in play for a long time. It's just playing out. And now the mindset of that is now doctors are feeling more empowered. Okay. Well now you need more medicines and more vaccines because there's more out there. And now we have all these double blind studies that are supporting this and it's, it's getting crazy. Yeah. I had like a random, you know, I was

talking to you about my resting heart rate before we started. I was just like, oh my God, please don't bring this conversation to dinner. I can't hear about this anymore. I have to look at the numbers every morning. And I was wondering, cause like, you know, I, I was just running about mine, but then the other day I was like, I was going in, um, I'm doing this insurance policy and I had to get, um, blood and everything. And I was wondering like, you know, my blood pressure at the time, it was like one 30. Then it started going down, down, down. But, but then I was, I was talking to another friend of ours and he's like, listen listen you can't like pay attention to a lot of those markers right when you go in and you're giving blood and all that but then i was really went

down the rabbit hole they're saying hey do you know like the u.s standard for blood pressure is different than the european standard is that true or not and i don't know if that's true that's a good question they were saying like we used to our standard used to be 130 over 70 now it's one is it 115 or 120 or whatever it is. It's all made up anyway. Exactly. Well said. What I was wondering is I feel pretty good and I do the things.

We work together and you've seen my blood work. But it got me alarmed at the time. Then I was like, wait a minute, what am I alarmed? I'm in this thing. It's such a good point. The fear. We tell our clients the diagnosis is the disease, literally. And it's good for people to pause and think about that. But when you're given a diagnosis,

that becomes the disease because then people can't help but identify. I had a patient ask me about, this is just this week, and she called about doing the full body MRI scan, right? As a, you know, just precursor. Let me just look at everything in my body. And I said, I'm not a huge fan because that's going to be driven by fear. she's like oh i'm not worried about fear and i said what you would be if they said you had a mass on your pancreas or something there then you couldn't get beyond that and i've had patients do this full body mri scan one they found a very small aneurysm in her brain which we don't know but statistically probably wouldn't amounted to anything in her life she got so anxious was put in a benzodiazepine because she's so anxious.

Then she had surgery, which had some complication for something that probably never would happen. But once she saw it, you can't unsee it. And so the fear, to your point, the fear is so powerful. Yeah. And I guess the reason I mentioned it too is I think, you know, in this country, we're so focused on medicine and i was wondering if like some of those markers like oh it's an easier way like to get you on what blood pressure medication earlier before maybe even need it and i and the reason i i

maybe sound kooky saying this but i think to your point you get this diagnosis from somebody and all of a sudden like wait i need all the medicine all the things before you even think about doing some of the other things or even if there's maybe not even an issue but here's the mind fuck of it all he goes and he gets this blood pressure shit done and he comes home and he's freaking out that he has high blood pressure which makes his blood pressure even

higher but then I realize I'm like I probably don't and all my other markers are fine but like what I'm saying is in that moment, I kind of fucked me up for a second. Almost called you. Didn't call you. Cause then I was like, okay, I have to hear. But my point in mentioning this to people that are listening is I think sometimes you go, you don't have this personal relationship like we do.

You're in this heightened environment. You get this person that's looking down and I'm not diminishing it, but they give you this reading. All of a sudden you think you have this person that's looking down and i'm not diminishing it but they give you this reading all of a sudden you think you have this thing and it's almost like you the the diagnosis becomes the symptom and it's like this it becomes the thing yeah and then you have to take medicine to take care of the thing that was made up by people you know from a long time ago creating reference ranges about people who aren't even you and isn isn't the MRI tons of radiation too? MRI is no radiation. So that's fine. That's a CAT scan.

So it's a magnetic, so MRI is safe. It's safe. Totally safe. But I know the business model, it's fear. Okay. It's we're going to drive fear to then likely come behind it and give you a product to take or several products based on the fear and then you've hooked people. So how are people supposed to then navigate that?

Like, how are they supposed to know? Because here, and again, I get a lot of pushback for this. I say, sometimes a degree doesn't necessarily mean that that's the person that you should meet. Like, you know, like I can go and get all sorts of degrees, but that doesn't mean that I should be the best person. But you know what I mean? Like, I think with what we do,

I feel you care and there's a real personal touch, but sometimes, like, I think we lose a lot of that, a little bit of this in this field. And then, you know, people are on these things and they don't know who to listen to or not listen to. Right. Because you have somebody with a degree saying you have a certain thing. So the person they should be listening to is themselves. Right.

And so that's why, right. That's why it's really important to help empower people and not disempower people. And the whole conventional medical establishment is about disempowering people. It's about taking away their power and saying, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what you eat or drink water-wise. It doesn't matter. We're not going to tell you to go out in the sun and get early morning sun rise and get light on your skin and your eyes. It doesn't matter about sleep. What matters is that you follow my plan, which is taking not just one, but multiple medicines. And if those medicines don't work, we'll edit them.

And if you get side effects, we'll give you more medicines because that's the only way to do it. And that fear is so powerful for people. And no wonder people are more diseased, more early death over and over and over. And it's just getting higher and higher exponentially. And it's because people feel disempowered, you know? And so the person they need to listen to is themselves. And the only way to know, and I'm a huge fan of, you know,

educating oneself and listening to people talk about studies and, you know, relaying that information in an articulate way. But the only way you're going to know is you got to get off the sideline and you got to get in the game and you got to try things, right? And if you don't try things, then how will you ever know? And I don't like this whole arena where you have to ask permission so much that we can try something. No one is sovereign over you except yourself, you know, but we've been told that you have to ask permission to do things. I would like to know when you're working with a patient for weight loss and they start losing weight, what you feel about the skin? Because I think that's not talked about enough.

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely facial fat wasting for sure. So we go in with biostimulators, we add filler, things like that. But you can't lose weight without some of it coming from the face. I just don't think that's realistic. So we see a lot of that. We see a lot of hair loss. But overall, I think people really like it. We do a lot more body contouring now because people have lost the weight and now they want to tone up. So we do muscle strengthening, toning, firming type treatments. What's a healthy percentage if you're going to start losing weight? Say you have a patient that's coming to you for their face and they're losing weight.

Do you say slow down or speed? How do you stop that kind of weight? We try not to do it too quick. Two pounds a week or less is reasonable for most people. If you're losing faster than that, it's going to catch up too quick. Two pounds a week or less is reasonable for most people. Yeah. If you're losing faster than that, it's going to catch up with you. And then the people come off

or change whatever they're doing for weight loss and those people tend to rebound. Do you see any collagen loss? I mean, that's hard to gauge, sure. But I mean,

if you think of youth and females, it's facial fat. So that really can go sideways pretty quick. When you look at a youthful female it's always the fat and but interestingly brought up collagen right like collagen is the name of the game and collagen supplements so and this is i'm kind of down a rabbit hole with this and just learned this recently so collagen is the most abundant you know protein in the body like 30

or more is collagen and collagen obviously for the skin for structural issues all over the body and collagen needs a type of molecule called sulfate and sulfate is just eaten up and taken away by roundup the herbicide oh great and this is again and the data is very clear on this but no one's's talking about this, right? And Roundup, doesn't Roundup cause cancer? Oh, it causes a lot of problems. Maybe autism. So wait, so are they taking the sulfate that's been affected by the Roundup and putting it in collagen? They don't know to.

I mean, people don't talk about it, right? And so to make healthy collagen, you need some couple of key things. You need sunlight, right right to help you need sulfates which you can get from like cruciferous vegetables and different you know polyphenols in the diet which are like the pigments from fruits and vegetables it's not necessarily challenging you need uh certain supplements like interestingly we're talking about covid and acetylcysteine is a molecule an amino acid form that helps you make more sulfates just Just NAC? Yeah, NAC.

Guess what was banned? Didn't they try to ban it? Oh, they did try to ban it, didn't they? Guess what was banned during COVID? You couldn't get NAC. You know what else you couldn't get? Did they let that up now? It's back.

It's back. Yeah, I remember that. You couldn't find silver anywhere on the internet. All of a sudden, it's sold out. I'm on this big rant where the gym bros, like the, they, because I guess I'm a gym bro. Like they know, like they've been onto NAC long time, creatines, collagens, proteins, like a lot of, and it's funny because I think like, obviously some of that community goes way too far, maybe

turns average people off cause they just become these big mongoloids. But, um, but they, but I've learned even from a young age, a lot of these kinds of supplements from that community because they're so focused on their, their health. And I learned about testosterone, you know, two decades ago from this naturopathic doctor, but he was a gym rat and they tested test. This is in the seventies and that's how we figured it out. You know, it's great. But back to the glyphosate is we now can do testing and see if people are

being affected you know what's becoming very prevalent is mold toxicity right and you're hearing about mold toxicity it's it's all tied together right mold toxicity and yeast and cancer and all these kind of poisonings they're from things coming from the environment it's very real right before you guys came in like literally right before we had the two founders of Force of Nature. Are you familiar with that? It's a regenerative farm out here and they raise beef and all sorts. And we were talking about what's done to a lot of the plant-based crops and what people don't realize and some of the stuff that's sprayed on our vegetable sources. And so a lot of times people think that they're getting a healthy product and it's filled with a lot of the stuff think that they're getting a healthy product and it's

filled with a lot of the stuff you're talking about and you wonder why we're getting more and more sick yeah i mean it well and it's the pharmaceuticals and it's all of the non-native emfs that are in the environment wi-fi and 5g and you know they're changing our physiology they're literally changing it so at the house with you, both of you, what is a typical diet look like? You don't have to get so specific, but what are the things that you actively work to incorporate in that you think would benefit people? Lately, protein. Protein, coffee. We love coffee. Yeah. Butter, heavy whipping cream in the coffee, grass-fed beef.

We love that. Animal protein, eggs. When you say cruciferous vegetables, what kind? Cruciferous vegetables are things like broccoli, kale, cauliflower. Mustard seed is a cruciferous vegetable. There's a bunch of them. You don't want to eat too many, but you want to introduce some of them. Lots of fruits.

I'm a big fruit fan. Lots of Kelly's too. Lots of fruits. You have mentioned EMF a lot in this episode. Do you guys do anything at your house or personally to combat EMF? We do. What do you do? Kelly may not even know this because I just kind of stuck it. There's a light. No, there's a light. But yeah, so in our bedroom at night, we have a light that does not emit any blue light. That's the only light we will have on because blue light is, again, from screens, from monitors, it's a problem, right? And so what happens is at

nighttime, and it's fine during the day because sunlight, if you look at the rays of sun in the wavelengths, you're getting ultraviolet light, then blue light, then the majority is red light or infrared light. And as the sun goes down, though, there's no more light, right? And you can make an argument that chronic disease comes from artificial light. Like literally it parallels over. I mean, if you look at the data, early 1900s, the rates of cancer were so small. Right. And now everyone's gone inside and then we change how much light we're getting

because no one's getting up with the sun. And then we're using all of this artificial light and that blue light is toxic to us. It changes our hormones. It changes our nervous system. It causes a lot of problems. So we have a non-blue light in the house, in our bedroom. We have these things called, which I don't think I remember the name clearly, but it's EMF rocks that come in a bag that I put under our bed, which help to kind of ward off the

non-natal EMFs. We have Shungite crystal on both of our bed stands. We change our phones at night. So there's the triple click. Yeah. And it's just doing things like that. And some people are really hardcore about it and that's great. I think we have to be more moderate because it's a lot for people to take in. Right. I really want to kill switch. Have you heard of this? Which is like everything in the house goes? It's you press this kill switch. We had this guy, his name is Brian from Test My Home.

It's essentially just a switch that you can put in your bedroom so that when you're going to bed at night, you can click it and it'll just turn the wifi off. I think it's so smart. Yeah, it just turns the wifi off. For kids, for my little tiny kids, I want a kill switch. Cause the thing is, is like, it's very simple tool.

And you don't, if you're going to bed, you don't need wifi, there's no reason. There's no reason. Yeah, and so. I'm getting the name of that kill switch. Because the thing is, it's a very simple tool. If you're going to bed, you don't need Wi-Fi. There's no reason. There's no reason. I'm getting the name of that kill switch. I'll send you guys the link. Awesome. I think it's super sensible.

I don't think people appreciate how much we're being inundated with invisible rays. Well, I'll challenge everyone to do something. Because I did it the other night because I wanted to do a test. Go to bed. Get in bed at 9.30 and bring your iPad or your phone and watch it for one hour in your bed.

And then the next night, don't do that. Get a book and get a red light book light and read the book from 9 to 10. A real book, yeah. A real book.

See how much better your sleep is it will blow your goddamn mind i did this test right because he started watching tv in the bed i had to get caught up on shogun he had to get caught up on his shows on on the ipad and i was watching him and i was kind of like i'm gonna do a test and watch palm royale in bed and just see and i did this test and your nervous system is shot. No, no, no. 90% of the nights, I mean,

I had to get caught up on Shogun, so I just knew I was sacrificing. Right. But anyways, but normally, we have the same thing.

We have just only red light in the bedroom at night. We have salt rock night lights. Yeah, salt rock. That I won't let him do anything else. But then what we found is on Amazon,

they have these little book, you know, like the book lights that you can get, but they now make them with just red light. And so you can get a hard book and just read with that. And so instead of staring into a screen or a camera, whatever, you just do that and you go to sleep. I think it's really sensible. And I think this is going to be such a problem.

You know, I think we're just starting to talk about it, but this is a major problem for people's health. And no one, you know, we're addicted to our phones. We're addicted to all these things on our phones. It's going to be a big challenge for people to wake up to that. Name a doctor on the planet that talks about EMF. I can't. Dr. Jack Cruz is super smart. He's a lightning rod, but he goes all in on this. And he's super hardcore. He's a neurosurgeon in Louisiana and he's doing some amazing things. I'll just mention,

cause I've been following him. He is actually setting up in El Salvador, the first in the world, free medical care system. Meaning there is no intervention from anyone, not the government, not insurance, no one.

It will be totally protected, totally sovereign, totally free. He's inviting people there because he's very committed to telling the truth and understanding what artificial light has done to us. And a lot of these studies with various medicines, they didn't control for light. None of them. Think about it. So it's like the data is so skewed.

And mice are nocturnal, right? Just did them in mice and mice are nocturnal right just think about this mice are nocturnal they don't are not a part of the same circadian rhythm as us right so how are we basing all the pharmaceutical studies on mice and that were done in artificial light which is artificial you see what i'm saying that's what the doctors are prescribing it makes total sense yeah that's a good point. Like sheep. What do you think is... Yeah, and so the mice, they're testing on something that is supposed to be awake at night anyways. Correct.

They didn't control for light. So it calls so much into question. And he comes to me complaining about his eyes. The reason his eyes hurt is because he's sitting watching Shogun on the fucking iPad. I healed my eyes because I stopped wearing sunglasses. But now you're going to ruin it. No, and I believe in that. We were just talking about that. I think people need to, I think you train it. I don't think you go in there and you just blast yourself with sunlight. I think a little bit, you know, you wake up with the sun, you get a little bit more each day. And to your point, I want you to

tell me if I'm, both of you tell me if I'm crazy. So yes, my eyes were bothering me. I think I talked to you about this even maybe a few years ago. They're fine now. I actually like don't need any eye intervention. And I did this whole, I thought I was done for. I was like, okay, my eyes gone, but it's fine. So anyways, what I started doing is I realized that whenever I would go out in the sunlight, I would, my eyes would like, it was too bright and my eyes would burn. And I was like, I can't see anything. So what I did is like I was like I'm gonna stop wearing sunglasses for a year I don't wear sunglasses basically ever anymore like once in a while if I want to pull off a look but like it's really nothing and I started taking these long walks staring far into the distance no phone

nothing and my eyes feel super strong but in addition to that now when I go outside I don't have any light sensitivity. You know, like when you go in and read a book, and you can like, you need some, I can read a book without. And what I've noticed also

is that I don't really get burned on my skin anymore. That's a great point. And the reason I wanted to, I was telling Kelly about this is I think so a lot of people, what I heard is if you wear sunglasses all the time,

it signals to your brain, you're in a dark place and you don't need to have anything. Well, light so this is dr going back to dr cruz dr cruz has a theory about metastatic cancer is that it's those cells are looking for light and that's why they leave to get light that uv light is healthy for us and not we're not talking about uvc which doesn't get here i'm not talking about like inundating yourself, but you need some UVA and UVB to start a whole cascade of hormones and neurotransmitters. Melanin in our skin is how we make energy.

It's taking sun energy and turning into chemical energy. So we are human photosynthesizers. We're doing the reverse of plants. And this is very real. It'd be hard for people to be like, no, you're not, that's bullshit. You know, it's our mitochondria. Our mitochondria are there as a redox system,

kind of the battery. But it's literally the melanin in our bodies, which is how we make energy. I recently went on vacation and we went to St. Bart's and it was absolutely amazing, but there was a lot of sun. And I don't screw around

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if you're wearing sunglasses all the time, your skin is more likely to burn because it's signaling to your brain. You don't need to produce... So the way it happens is to keep it really simple. You get sunlight through your eye, right? That travels to a part of your brain, which turns on melanin. So then your melanin is there to protect you from more harsh sun. It's a loop. And if you don't get the light into your eyes, it won't happen. So then you're more susceptible to then having harmful effect of UV light, but you can train your body. But some people are more susceptible anyways,

fair skin, blue eyes, I've got ocular rosacea. There's a lot again, but I think there's ways to moderate it for sure. What are people doing to their skin that you think is not the move? And I'll give you one that I think, I think the tretinoin craze is wild. I don't agree with it. In a good or bad way? I don't like it. Interesting. I don't like it at all. I wholeheartedly disagree. Yes, please disagree. Disagree. Go. I just think it's, well, it's a vitamin A derivative, obviously, great for cellular turnover. You exercise your body, so you exercise your skin, and that's what it's doing. Very well studied for decades.

I think it's the most important skincare ingredient outside of sunscreen. Oh my God, I love that you're disagreeing with me on this. Why do you think, I don't even know about this. Why don't you like it? I think that girls that are using it that are too young, there's something in the skin that looks waxy and it makes them actually look older because it's giving them an older woman's skin look at

a younger age does that make sense i know exactly what you're referring to i just i don't agree with it i i want to look more into it especially because i feel like you're such a skin guru but i don't know if it's just an to look more into it, especially because I feel like you're such a skin guru. But I don't know if it's just an intuition. It's not like based on science, my opinion. Well, a lot of people get very irritated. So dry, red, flaky, you know, their skin is irritated. So they don't like using it for that reason. But it actually thickens the dermis, which is the goal anyways.

People say, does it thin the skin? No, it doesn't thin the skin. But the data is definitely there. I mean, for cellular turnover, it stimulates all your key skin cells. say does it thin the skin no it doesn't thin the skin um but the data is definitely there i mean for cellular turnover there's it it stimulates all your key skin cells so melanocytes fiber i mean everything how often do you use it on your skin the goal is that you can use it every night some people take time to work up to that but you know you want to go low and slow so you don't get so irritated but then to me,

I would rather a patient be on a lower dose that they can tolerate nightly or every other night, as opposed to a couple of times a week. Because what happens is they forget to use it. Every time they forget, you have the initial irritation all over again called retinization. But yeah, it works on all your key skin cells. There's nothing else on the market that can do that. Do you like the brand tretinoin or do you like a certain product that has it in it? Well, tretinoin is just a generic, you know, that's generic retin-A. We always start patients lower. So I'm not a huge fan of retinols unless a patient is just super duper sensitive. We generally start them at like a retinaldehyde, which only converts once in the

skin before it's the strength of a retinoic acid. The retinoic acid is what you're referring to. That's retin-A, otherwise known as, you know, tretinoin. That's the generic. Is there a brand though of these, of that contain these products that you go towards or no? We use in our office Obagi. Okay. But there's so many out there. I mean, it's really just the ingredient, you know. Okay. What are other things that you love that are maybe controversial? Exosomes. I don't know that they're controversial. Actually, I guess they are. So they're

the ones we use in our office are from Wharton's Jelly, which is actually from the umbilical cord. And exosomes are crazy regenerative. They are taking the aesthetic world by storm. We are able to do these much more aggressive treatments, lasers specifically, where we have a controlled wound that renders a very strong inflammatory response. And we are able to just completely move that to a healing cascade like that. They are amazing. We use them topically. We actually used them years ago, about 10 years ago, 12 years ago, and they just got so expensive in the space that, well.

We use them intravenously. Right. The aesthetic companies have finally caught on. Yeah, they're just unbelievable regenerative properties for wound healing, accelerating results, etc. So I have a Korean facialist in Austin that I go to, and she has been doing exosome treatments on me twice with salmon semen. Okay. Do you like the salmon semen? I'm not as familiar with that. There's various types of exosomes obviously next time you come here we should go to her together and get salmon semen on our face i've heard you talk about

it so much it's i really like it i can't believe is it actual salmon semen or is this or is she just like saying it's because i never think sometimes she says do you think i just like lie about getting salmon semen hey i just i don't think you lie i just i've known you for a long time and i think sometimes it's. When you say exosomes, is it when the person's doing it, they're like, hey, you want some salmon semen? The salmon was ejaculated and it goes on my face. No, there's no way. That's not how this happens.

That's not how it happens. And they use it a lot in vaginal rejuvenation now. Did you hear that? They use it in vaginal rejuvenation. I could get pregnant by a salmon. What do they roll the vagina with? The microneedler? I'm not as familiar. I don't know what. No, no, no.

They would inject it typically. They inject it. You remember like the old P shots, the O shots. I can't believe I'm saying that name. Why does it have to be salmon? I don't ask to be crass. I'm actually wondering like what is the benefit of a salmon in particular? Could it be any animal or fish?

There's something in the salmon semen carson can you google it that is really good for the skin right i can't tell if carson salmon in general is great for the skin you know what is it salmon in general is great for the skin yeah yeah yeah you can eat salmon for a week if you you know i want to test it and look at your skin salmon in general yeah i thought you were gonna say i should put your semen on my face no but that'd be cheaper maybe. I would do it if it made my skin glow. I really would.

I'd bottle it. I mean, I'd do it if it works. Kelly, tell her it makes her skin glow. It does, Lauren. So exosomes, I think, are super popular. The other thing is just regenerative aesthetics. You know, we're getting away from the filler, away from the toxin, but away from the filler, away from the more fake looks of yesteryear if you will and people

are adopting a more natural approach we've seen our platelet-rich fibrin our easy gel treatments go through the roof this year and that's not been the case in years past people i think and you could you know better but it's it people are sick of the wide pillow-faced look. It makes you look older. And the same. Everyone looks the same. Right. I would like you guys to talk a little bit about peptide therapy. Which ones are you seeing really work?

What are you seeing not work? What do you think about all the controversy that's come out? Give us the peptide spiel. Yeah, I mean, we've been doing peptides for, I don't know, seven years. Peptides are just chains of amino acids put together in novel combinations. So all naturally occurring molecules put together to have some sort of goal in the body. They're small molecules. Historically, they're injected subcutaneously, but you could use them topically, orally, different vehicles for it. There's a whole host of peptides that are in existence unfortunately they're coming into question there's there's there's a gray area now and it's it's unclear if

i mean probably they're they're not the tried and true peptides people may be familiar with things like bpc-157 which is an anti-inflammatory peptide or ipamorelin which is a growth hormone releasing peptide or even ghk copper which is a skin peptide. It looks like they're all going to be taken away. Why do you think that is? I think it happens because of the results and the success of ozempic and terzapatide, which were just became the number one selling drug in America. And those are peptides. Those are technically peptides. And you have the pharmaceutical companies,

like we've talked about, who say, oh my gosh, those are two peptides and we're crushing it. Well, let's get the 20 others that are working well and come up, make them into drugs. It's just money. No, I'm probably more cynical than most, but I think that's what's happening.

So you think the pharmaceutical industry is going to take over the peptide industry and repackage it and sell it themselves? I think they're already on it. Of course. So it's like they saw something working and they're like that. Like anything. The technology, I don't know if you call it technology, like it's clearly not going to go away and disappear.

So the question is, how is it going to be repackaged? I think it's going to go black market like anabolic steroids and you have to get it from Eastern Europe. Oh, great. Wait, so we're not even going to be have to get it from Eastern Europe. Oh, great. I just, I mean, I think that's where we're not even going to be able to get it through a doctor. Most pep, right. Right. Most peptides will be research only.

And I think eventually at some point those will be hit up too. And I think again, maybe I'm more cynical, but I think this is what's gonna happen. I'm have concerns about testosterone, same thing happening. I think in the last five years, the people using testosterone has gone through the roof. I think you will see the pharmaceutical company get control back. I think the same thing with, we do a lot of NAD therapy. I think that could happen.

I think this is, we're in a season of it. It's really scary. I mean, we have insurance and I take thyroid replacement, have for 15 years. When did I fill my prescription? It's like $400. You do it once a month. Like the pharmaceutical companies are just, I don't think people understand the control that they have.

Massive. It's unbelievable. Well, if they don't understand the control they have, they haven't been awake the last four years. We're going to be canceled. Oh, don't worry. We're going to be canceled. There's so many people that want.

We've been canceled so many times that we are just, we're just not. And there's so many people that want. It's equaled out over the years. A refreshing conversation. Yeah, it's all good. That's real and raw. Wait, so I just have a question about peptides for a second. When you say the pharmaceutical industry is going to take them over because of money,

why wouldn't they then repackage them and sell them to the public? You're saying you're only going to be able to get them in eastern europe what do you mean well no i mean so so they'll become drugs because because they're not drugs currently there's been a gray area to be turned into drugs they'll be turned into drugs that require a a doctor to prescribe in a certain way that will be run and owned by the pharmaceutical company so that it goes through pharmacies. So they make so much money and you know. How frustrating. It's frustrating, but at the same time, it's good. I mean, it's, it's, it's good to be able to kind

of see the landscape and be able to talk about it. So this is a great forum to do it because I'm committed to getting it out there. We're committed to telling the truth and being authentic. I couldn't imagine going to medical school today, knowing what's happening in the world and looking ahead. I mean, you would have to be just, I don't know. I can't imagine. You know, what's scary about that though, is I think, you know, I imagine most people like, yes, people want to make a living, but I imagine most medical practitioners like yourself, they go into it ultimately to help people. And when I, when I hear things like that, it's discouraging because I, I hope it doesn't deter people that have, you know, a mission driven mind to go help people out of that, you know, profession, because now there may be feeling

like, oh, you know, I got to, you know, operate a certain kind of way or tell a certain line or not say certain things like that. I think that's the scariest thing that comes through. It's the same thing. This is going to be very controversial where you start to, I won't go into super into law enforcement, but so many of those law enforcement individuals have been beaten up so bad by the public and the narrative around them that now imagine the type of candidates you're going to get. Same with politics. If you're of sound mind now, what kind of sane person wants to enter the world of politics? But I think the larger question there is, which I think will be good. I think it's just take it.

The pendulum has to swing is asking these questions because what we're fundamentally asking is who is in control of giving permission to do these things. Right. And if it stays with the medical boards and it stays with the government i don't think in general and again there's a need and a role for that that they're always looking out for our best interests and so it's a great question for society as a whole to ask like what are we doing like getting to the truth in medicine what are we doing that we're spending so much money and we have the worst outcomes that we're not making any progress that our standard of care absolutely sucks that's defined by being on multiple medicines which make people sicker feel worse and require more medicine and they drink alcohol do all these substances and their

quality of life sucks like that is a fact and if we're not willing to ask those questions then sure we're going to get stuck yeah you know what's funny is like who am i i'm just a simple businessman what i know but i am I think about it like this. If I was running a company, and a lot of these entities are companies or divisions of a big company, and I was constantly losing money and constantly getting terrible results, and all my customers were constantly sick and unhealthy, and all the employees were on... You would shut my business. My business would be gone in a year.

But the problem is, is we have a structure in this country where those same kind of guardrails don't exist and you're allowed to waste and be frivolous and get terrible results constantly over and over without any accountability. And everyone just kind of nods their heads and keeps going where it's like,

if that was run as an actual private company, not saying it should be, but if it was, it would just be done in the first year. Like competition would come in, that would be better. And they would get a better solution and fix it with better people and better results. And you'd wipe out that inefficient vehicle. But because it's in this form of entity, and because there's not those consequences, you're able to just operate with the worst results possible and waste and be frivolous,

and nobody holds anything in account. And I think like those are the questions that most individuals should ask is like, why is this giant machine that we're all paying into so fucking inefficient? So inefficient. But I think the brighter side of this is, and what we try to get across with people is this is really positive. Like once you can see this, you, there's always going to be options. You don't have to be stuck in this system that's probably not serving you, right? There's going to be ways that you can make choices in your life to do better for yourself. And once that light bulb turns on, then it gets amazingly good. And that's why it's really meaningful and purposeful work.

Be your own advocate. Dr. Craig and Kelly, where can everyone book with you and book with you? You do not have to be in Charleston. I text you all the time. Kelly, I'm always going to for skin advice. Where can people find you both and reach out? We both have a website, Conover Aesthetics, and we have Instagram. So either one of those is great. Yeah, mine's Conover Wellness, K-O-N-I-V-E-R wellness.com. And this is their third time on the show. And if you guys haven't heard those first two episodes, I highly recommend you go and do so. We covered a lot of different topics in them. If you guys have any questions on skin,

peptides, health, diet, weight loss, all the things, go harass them on Instagram. Thank you guys both so much for coming on. Thank you guys. We can always go a hundred different directions. The next time you come on, hopefully we're in Charleston. That'd be awesome.

We all have big clit on the bingo card today. Sam and team in big clits. That was good. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you.