The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - How Nik Richie Saved The Internet By Creating The Dirty, Going Through Hundreds Of Lawsuits, & A Wild Marriage

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

#393: On today's episode we are joined by Nik Richie. Many of you may be familiar with Nik Richie as the creator of the infamous website The Dirty. On today's episode Nik joins the show to discuss his journey as creator of the site and how it led him down a wild road of lawsuits, divorce, jail, and so much more. Nik bares it all on this episode and leaves you hanging on to the edge of your seat.  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by Match Dating App Let’s talk about dating for a minute. I feel like it’s become such a time suck, people are swiping away and not getting serious. You guys need Match --that is where you can find people who put actual effort into their dating lives and they don’t waste your time - they’re ADULTS. Download the Match app today and you can message your top matches for free!  Match, Adults Date Better. This episode is brought to you by Better Help We want you to start living a happier life today. Get connected online to licensed therapists at accessible prices to make sure yu are taking care of your mental health. As a listener, you’ll get 10% off your first month by visiting our sponsor at www.BetterHelp.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Olive & June The Olive & June Mani system is the secret behind salon-perfect at home, all-in-one, no guessing, no messy nails, no salon price tag. All TSC Him & Her listeners can no get 20% off your first mani system with our code SKINNY. Visit www.oliveandjune.com and use promo code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first mani system.  Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. 2021, it's a time suck. It's changed a lot since I've been dating. It's changed a lot. There's lots of swiping. There's lots of not getting serious. It's not very efficient when it comes to time. And that is why you guys need match. This is where you can find people who put actual effort into their dating lives. Imagine that actual effort. And they don't waste any time because they are adults. I don't think you could have joined the site back in the day, Michael. I could have joined. I don't think I would have been welcome on the site back in the day. Maybe now. No, no, Michael's not welcome. But I feel like if I was dating right now, this is the app that I would go to if I was dating. And I feel like if you're ready for an adult relationship and you're over the games, I'm sure there's a lot of you listening

that are over the games and you're ready for something real, you have to check out this app. It's for people, like I said, who want to put actual effort into dating. There is people on there, you guys, who take care of themselves and they also take care of other things like plants and dogs and cats. It's crazy. They're out there. They're on the Match app. These people on the app have nice sheets on their bed, crisp, nice sheets, and they can make dinner for you. So it's a real win. This is so great for our audience. You can download the Match app today and you can message your top matches for free. Match. Adults date better. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic

are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Keywords in life is creation, create. I think when you create, you're able to control your narrative, control your destination. And it's coming from imagination, but it's also coming from a place of respecting yourself because you believe in yourself.

So create to me is a big one. But when you start going in, like you said, you go into someone else's environment where they're basically creating your storyline, creating, controlling your edit, which is just crazy. You're basically giving your life away to somebody and I don't care how much money they're paying you. Welcome back. Welcome back everybody to the Skinny Confidential, him and her show. We have another very compelling episode for you today. Nick Ritchie, many of you guys may know his name from The Dirty. Some of you might like that. Some of you may dislike that. Some of you may be angry. Some of you may be sad, happy. Who knows? We're going to get into it on

this episode. This is a wild ride of a story. I love this podcast and doing this podcast because you really get to go deep with people and hear what makes them tick. So reserve some space, keep an open mind, and get ready for this one. And some of us may have been featured on the journey, Michael Bostic. Yeah, some of us. And I want to say this too. I personally wanted to interview Nick because I think he's an incredible interviewer and interviewee. I've heard him on all different kinds of podcasts and his voice is really calming. And I think it's really interesting how he founded the gossip website, thedirty.com. I would very much recommend everyone to leave their judgment aside and listen to this episode.

Well, listen, there's people that are going to feel a certain way about Nick, especially if you're familiar with The Days in the Dirty. But it is undeniable that this is a very wild story. It's a compelling story. There's ups, there's downs, there's highs, there's lows, there's everything you want in a juicy story. And Nick's a really good storyteller, and he's got a pretty powerful story to tell. So again, reserve your judgments until at least after you've heard this episode, and then feel free to jump right back in on those judgments. But I definitely think this is one worth listening to. So who is Nick Ritchie? He founded the gossip website, TheDirty.com in March 2007 as DirtyScottsdale.com while living in Scottsdale, Arizona. He also was married for

11 years to reality TV star Shane Lamas. And we get into that on this episode. Yes, we do. A lot. The pair met during vacation to Las Vegas, which we talk about, and they were married on April 18th, 2010 at the Little White Wedding Chapel, eight hours after they first met. Which he talks about on this episode. They have two children and one of them is born via surrogate. We talk about that. Nick Ritchie was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis in 2015. And I just feel like this story goes all over the place. Again, sit back, get your popcorn,

grab some tea, maybe a glass of champagne and get ready for a wild ride of a story. And learn how Nick Ritchie actually saved the internet. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. I don't mean to brag, but I've been on the dirty five times. Like actually posted? No, like she's been featured. Featured. No way. Congratulations. I have been featured. I kind of feel like she's been featured. Featured. No way. Congratulations.

I have been featured. I kind of feel like it's a claim to fame. Well, after the first couple of times, it's kind of like people really care about you. I mean, it wasn't like Stacey Cole, who if you know who I'm talking about. Yes, Brock's chick. Yeah.

But I do feel like five times is pretty good. Are you friends with Stacey? No, I just know her. I feel like i know her through the dirty the dirty yeah you built the dirty before all of this we're just talking about it go back to how you decided to start the dirty okay so it's crazy because it wasn't anything it kind of was like a joke between a couple of buddies of mine in Scottsdale and a couple, you know, Ben Quayle was out there. He was Dan Quayle's son and we would go drinking and whatever. And I told him like, hey man, like I want to start this site. Scottsdale is, you know, I called it the Dubai of America. It was like the hidden gem, all these hot chicks, all these to start this site. Scottsdale is, you know, I called it the Dubai of America.

It was like the hidden gem, all these hot chicks, all these 30 K millionaires. So we would always come up with like taglines and his name was Brock Landers. He wanted to go by Brock Landers. My name was Nick Ritchie. Cause I was going off like at that time, I was looking at all the different sites, TMZ and perez hilton were really just the only kind of things that were blowing up so i'm like okay well hey he stole paris let me do the nick nicole ritchie thing the nick ritchie thing so i chose nick ritchie because you know i'm straight and like she's a little bit more you know put together paris is more party girl i was more like business so i thought it was a good yin and yang even though he wasn't really a fan of of it because i was kind of stealing his thunder a little bit but then

brock landers was in the political sphere and this thing ben quayle started blowing up so he's like he was out so when i started this thing in scottsdale it was literally like hey let's find the cool kids in the town and make my own civilian paparazzi. Cause at this time you have to understand like camera phones just started. What year was this exactly? Cause I just, and the reason I am asking, cause I w I was at U of a and I think I remember the dirty coming out like while I was in college, it was around like 2006. Yeah. 2005, 2006. And it only started in Scottsdale and we knew about it. And at U of A, like we knew, like us in Arizona knew about the dirty, like right when you launched it.

Yeah. So within, I would say a year, year and a half, you know, I was in the Arizona spotlight, but no one knew who I was because I never, my identity wasn't out there. I was like Batman. So I would do these interviews. I would have reporters sit outside the room. I would do, you know, the full blacked out face. And I would, I would have reporters sit outside the room, I would do the full blacked out face and I would have an English accent. I would literally just pretend I was someone else.

And the crazy part was you would go out in Scottsdale and people would be like, oh, Nick Ritchie's here. And I'd be sitting in line waiting in cover and people are pointing up to the bottle service table and be like, dude, that's Nick. And I'm like, oh, that's Nick. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool. Let me shake his hand. I'm like shaking some random dude's hand, some douchebag, just getting free bottles and just living it up, banging, whatever. So it was so cool to me to see that side of it because the aspect of vanity and fame and how

bad people wanted it was the fuel of what made the dirty. And for me, I kind of got to play like the wizard of Oz and I was hiding behind the curtain and I got to pick and choose who I wanted to make famous in their town. And what happened was, you know, a picture would come in and it would get submitted. And if I thought the girl had some sort of potential, hot elbows, good jawline, whatever it was, I would tell people like, Hey, you know, she has potential. She's an 8.6353, right? Out of 10. So I would take that and take it to another level. And then the fans of the site, which was growing like crazy, they would literally stalk, you know, that person's MySpace because

that was what social media was back then. Right. And go out at night and they would take pictures with their cell phones and they would literally feel like they were hanging out with Paris Hilton in their, in their town. And that person blew up and that person became famous. So I was like, okay, wow, I can make these like dirty celebrities. And then I'm like, okay, well, I'm originally from Orange County. Let me try Newport. So I did dirty newport.com as the next site. And that was just on fire. Like I was, you know, there was this girl that was really hot blonde. I called her canary. Cause she had, you know, a very blonde vibe. Like after the comic book character? No, after the bird. Cause she had a look, her nose was a little, I went straight to college. Okay. Yeah. Close, but not,

but she had, she was a little beaky. So i called her canary and then there was a crusty crusty was a big one out there because she had a mac force field on like literally we people would see her face and there was like an inch of makeup so we called it a mac force field because the makeup line mac was big in the day right so there was so many different things different names but they all played on like what their appearance was now when this thing started going i'm like okay newport chicago dallas like i picked these major markets and it worked everywhere within three years i got to about 150 markets. Then we opened it up to colleges. So by 2007, we had ASU obviously unlock. U of A, we focused on basically Arizona and did the same model with the cities we did

with the colleges. And then I would say within five years, we were in 350 markets. I asked her to bring me coffee. We can pause for one second. Do you want a cup? I got one for you too. I'm okay. Thank you. So yeah, so it just, it really took off. What happened was, is I got a submission of the chief of police's daughter, risque, not wearing any clothes. And I, it's not that we, we posted anything, any nudity. We, we would put hearts over private parts. I'm like, ah, you know at this point i felt really confident about myself so i posted it put on the dirty and next thing you know like these guys sheriff joe arpyro who was like oh god yeah yeah he's putting a tent city yeah so he came after me he actually went to that city yeah he had with a pink jumpsuit yep so i've been about these arizona things so yeah so it was crazy he set up on a DUI and it was just a big deal.

Yeah. What do you mean? Like, talk me through, like, you're at the club, you're at a restaurant drinking. It was a Tuesday night. I was at this place called Dirty Pretty. And it was random. Like, I had a random invite. Like, hey, you know, come to D pretty. And some, some of the people kind of knew like the, some of the club

promoters that, that I became friends with new cause they, I would, I would need them for protection. Like, you know, they would make sure to hide me or whatever it was. So I went to this place, you know, I had probably like three drinks, whatever, four drinks. But the next thing, you know, I roll out of this place and five cars, five cop cars just pulled me over. I didn't even say anything, but like it was in the police report, which was crazy, like a writer for dirty Scottsdale. And like, they just came at me and it was the, it was like a 16 page DUI police report, which is unheard of. It's usually like a one pager. Right. So I tried to refuse to take blood, do all those things, whatever. And I don't know how, but they said I was way over the limit. And I think I, obviously I did drink, but I wasn't that crazy, but they made me sound like I was some sort of lunatic. And next thing you know, yeah, they gave me the max because Sheriff Joe wanted to prove a point. point my mugshot went viral it was everywhere this is the guy this is the creator of the dirty and

i had no choice but to post myself so i posted my mugshot made fun of myself saying yes it's true this is me i thought personally i thought it was dead man walking like okay everyone's gonna kill me like now you know i'm here just because of all the things you'd shared over the years on the site at this point yeah because it was international like australia canada like i there wasn't like there wasn't like a place i could go hide you know so and the opposite thing happened which which really blew my mind that i became instant celebrity like they celebrated you overnight overnight it was the weirdest thing and i and i didn't know what was like going on other than the fact that all I cared about was how the hell am I going to survive in prison? You know? Cause it's not a joke. Like you go to Arizona, they put you in tent city,

you're wearing pink underwear. And I'm literally, I call it law familiar 52. Cause I made my own gang in this, in the tents because I didn't, I needed protection. How did you do that? Like just on a micro level, how did you make your own gang in prison? So I was on AZ Central. Like it was, there was cameras, like there was news cameras outside the gates of the prison. Like, and they knew who I, like some of the guys knew who I was

and they're like, hey, you know, we got you. I'm like, okay, cool. Like, I felt like I was in a movie, like gangland. Like it was real. And yeah, like all these Hispanic guys, I was in the Hispanic crew. I wasn't even movie like gangland. Like it was real. And, uh, yeah, like all these Hispanic guys, I was in the Hispanic crew. I wasn't even Hispanic, but whatever. And I was there for, I think 13 days or 14 days or something like that. So it was scary. And I bunked and you sleep, you're sleeping outside. It's like 120 degrees. What happened when you got out? When I got out, I was really worried that I was going to die because I thought that

now that people know who I am, they can find me and look me up, shoot me, stab me, whatever. Because at that point, the dirty was, it was the dirty. It was, you know, it wasn't like positive things about people. And in that time period, you could get away with a lot more than you can today. Like obviously there's no way anyone could do the dirty. Now you go to jail. Any, anyone who's tried to do it has gone to jail. So give me an example. Like what could you, like, what could you do then that you can't do now? Could not be more excited than to tell you about Ritual's new launch. The multivitamin company you know and trust has launched protein powders. Now, I got to be honest, I'm a picky

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That's ritual.com slash skinny. I would also highly recommend stalking their vitamin section. It is good. Well, then there was no, there was no rules. Like the internet wasn't. Yeah. There's no social like rules either. Well, the freedom of speech issue for internet wasn't established, right? It was established for print, but it wasn't established for the internet. So you couldn't just go around like talking smack or whatever they called it, like trash or whatever, you know, on people and people didn't know if it was legal or not. So that's why I always get sued. I would get sued all the time. And I would try to shield myself with the CDA, which is the communications decency act. And that was my big escape. And, but it still wasn't established. Like there was never a person,

there wasn't that Larry Flint person to take it to the highest level. And that's what I did is I would work my way up the ladder and I got to, I believe it was the Ninth Circuit or the Sixth Circuit Court, three judges. And they finally, and I think the reason why I won is because Facebook, Google, YouTube, Amazon, TripAdvisor, they all came to my aid and all their lawyers

came in. So I had a team of like 50 Ds. If that went the other way, it's bad for them too. If I would have lost, there would be no Facebook, YouTube. Basically what was going on is, are website owners liable for third-party content? So said, you know, something very vile about you, is Zuckerberg responsible if she wrote it on Facebook? So that's what they were trying to say. Like people were submitting stuff to me since I own the website, I should be responsible for what that person says. Which would in turn, like obviously people say all sorts of crazy shit on all these social platforms and that would all go away if they did make the websites liable because nobody would take that liability on you'd be insane you would you would literally be sued into death how many lawsuits did you get i

went 50 you know yeah 50 and 50 and 0 50 and 0 in grand total probably over a billion dollars in it not in people trying to sue me for money yeah and i want them all i probably spent at least three million dollars defending myself what was your lifestyle like when all this is going on are you living large or are you living normal i was i didn't have i didn't have really money because all the money went to legal you know like at that, it was my thirties. So in that part of my life, I was really trying to figure out what my legacy was like, what am I doing with this? You know, like, is this, is it, am I getting off on this or is this something where I'm trying to establish myself and make a name for myself? Because I was always, I always had the chip on my shoulder. Like this

isn't as bad as people think it is. Like They only think it's bad because they're on it or they know someone on it or they're in fear of being on it because they have jobs. People have jobs. And at that time, the dirty was so big. We were doing 10 million people a day coming to the site. And it would be the number one thing in Google within two seconds of someone's name's on it. But what's so crazy to me is that you had 10 million people on the site.

And at the time, you couldn't monetize like you can now. If that was now, let's say that was now. What would you do differently with the monetization? Say it's right now today. Right now? Yeah. Well, a ton of people would just be trying to partner to give him money. Well, I would try to figure out how to do programmatic because there was no programmatic

back then. Programmatic advertising is the lifeblood of the CPM game is the game now. That's what the internet is. So there was no RPMs. There were no CPMs. You know, the CPCs and what that means is, you know, cost per click.

Like it wasn't a thing. It wasn't even real. So I would have to go out and get direct advertising. Wow. Yeah, that's vintage. Yeah, like a door to door salesman. I was very impressed listening to your evolution. You have evolved as a person. I think some people want to put you in the box as the dirty, but you're a father now and you're a good father. And you're also a businessman. You have celeb now, which we're going to talk about later, but you've evolved. So at what point did you start to be like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore? To be honest, probably like year two, like year, like right when, right when it started and it's cause it wasn't supposed to be like when I did it, it was supposed to be just like an outlet,

a relief for fun for the guys. Like, and I was like, Oh wow. And in that time period, that's kind of when the internet started getting inflated. You had these sites selling for like a hundred million dollars that didn't even monetize. They just had a minimal audience, but there was a concept. So I was in that weird bubble of, you know, I have to keep going because this thing's valued at a hundred million dollars already and it doesn't even make money. So I'm sitting here, like I'm sitting on some sort of treasure or some sort of gold mine. Right. So it's always been for me. It's like, I always wanted out because it was never me. Like that's, you know, the Nick

Ritchie persona or the character, that's not who I really was. Like, I don't go up to people and say, Hey, you're fat. Like that's not true. But I do have that side of me where I thought I had a shield because I wasn't out. So I thought I could say whatever I wanted to in my mind at that time in that, you know, whatever was in front of me, I would say it because I knew that people were thinking it in their heads. So when you meet your soon to be wife in Vegas, you had the dirty, correct? Yes. So you're still doing the dirty at this point. You're not monetizing like you could be monetizing today.

But I heard you're in Vegas and you can set the scene of what was going on because I feel like you'll do it better than I do. I was probably at the peak of the dirty. Like I was, you know. You were getting paid for appearances though at this point, right? Yeah, like 25 grand to show up. So you started, you did start monetizing it just in unique ways what was there what was the promoters or the the club owners or

the companies like what was their their idea like okay we're gonna get nick and what like what did they want you to do so they didn't want me to do anything just want you to show i was a white tiger i would go there and i would literally drink and hang out with chicks and get on the mic with a dj and say hello you know it was it was back when there weren't the rules were a little bit more open for the nightclubs and the kim kardashian the celebrity appearances the paris hiltons like that was still a thing it was and it was a draw yeah it was a total draw. And the DJ thing hasn't happened yet. What year is this, like 2010? Yeah. Well, from 2000 to like 14.

Well, it's still going, but yeah. But I would say from 2007 to 2010, I probably made a million dollars in appearances. So you did eventually monetize everything. No, because that money all went to legal in the dirty so i was just an employee technically i just paid myself a hundred thousand a year that was my salary you know people look at it and they're like oh my god this guy's just got more money than god and you know he can do whatever he wants you know it was never it was never level the rockstar life or whatever. It was free. It was

comped. Everything was free. So I was probably drinking 2 million, $3 million in booze, gray goose or whatever, getting flown out private, getting put up at the best hotels and whatever. But that was all free. Like that was part of the package. And then later get to take a pile of cash and throw it in your own bank account. No, no. But there was also the fear of also the lawsuit. So I never even like my lawyer always told me you can't have assets. You can't buy anything. Can't do anything like, you know, and I'm like, well, what do I got to do? Like, do I got a full, like go offshore? Like, how does this work? He's like, no, you just got to be a straight arrow,

straight shooter. Let them come after you. And that was my, honestly, my biggest defense. They would come depose me. They would go through my financials and they'd be like, there's nothing here. And I'd be like, sitting there laughing across their faces and be like, okay, well you spent a lot in legal. So once I win this thing, I'm going to, I'm going to sue you and you're going to pay my legal. So that was kind of my whole thing. It was like, try to get the legal fees taken care of. And did most of these lawsuits come from people that were displeased about being on the site? Yeah.

Okay. That's all it was. So they were like somebody, a celebrity or a personality or like somebody with a rich relative, whatever, would get on the site. They'd be like, okay, well, to get off, I'm going to sue this guy. And they'd bring a frivolous lawsuit to you and then you'd have to defend it, which still costs you money. We are back talking about Olive and June. And you guys, I'm telling you, their Manny system is the answer. I did my nails at home. They're black right now I'm gonna try to post them on instagram story And I cannot believe how good they look

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was doing something right. As weird as that sounds, it's almost like if people aren't jealous of your success or thinking that they can penetrate you in a way to take you down, then you're not actually rising. So for me mentally, I was like, why is no one suing me anymore? Like, what do I got to do? Like, this is crazy. Like I kept pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope, pushing the envelope, but the case law was set. I said, any lawyer that looked at it was like, listen, you can sue. You're not going to win. So what's the point of even doing it? My, my lawyer would just do, would just send back a copy paste here. Here you go. We won this one. This chick wanted $12 million. Look what she ended

up paying us. And this is, this is set law. Like literally I'm in the books, which is crazy too, because like they study me at schools, like I, in law schools, Harvard law school, they study me. So for me, it's like, okay, well I did something there. There you go. That was my legacy, right? And Sarah Jones was the Cincinnati Bengal cheerleader that sued me and actually ended up, she was a school teacher. She ended up marrying her student and having kids with him and like the whole thing. So in the end, the post was pretty much true. Hold on. So there's a cheerleader. Explain that a little more for our audience. I heard it on Heather, but I want to explain it more here. So she's from Kentucky. She was a Cincinnati

Bengal cheerleader. I guess that's what they're called for the football team. Someone submitted her saying that she sleeps around, you know, she hooks up with students, whatever it was. And all I said is why are all teachers freaks in the sack? Because that was the thing. Like during that time period, these teachers were getting busted for sleeping with their students. So this thing goes to two jury trials. I'm in Kentucky, miserable. Oh, Jesus.

Oh, dude, it was a nightmare. I'm married too at the time. I'm just having my daughters being born. So I'm going through all this stuff. And it was probably the most stressful time of my life because I didn't know if I was going to win or lose. And I knew just looking at the jury and her lawyer just basically played me out. Their plan was to make me look like a terrorist. So in Kentucky, it's all white and old people, right? That's what the jury was. It was a white female. Probably the youngest person on the jury was like 50.

So I ended up having a mistrial the first one, which was two weeks in Kentucky. So I had to do it all over again. And I lost the judgment. They wanted, I think it was 30 million or 3 million or something like that. And the judgment ended up being 300,000. Not bad. So I was like, okay, well, that's not the end of the world. But of course I'm appealing to the higher court. So in my mind, I'm like, okay, I got to get to the show, which is the Supreme Court. Like that was my goal. Get to the show, get to the show, get to the show. But then Google, all these, all these people started freaking out. It was all over the news.

Like, hey, the internet might be done. It was like a real thing. And people didn't take it serious. And Facebook, Google, Amazon, they were tripping out. And they're like so mad because I'm the poster boy. Like Nick Ritchie of the dirty is going to be that guy, right? So they came in with the big guns you talk about the big guns the lawyers they wrote amicus is just basically put all the capital up

oh dude they made me look like a god so i have this piece of paper that literally shows every single logo and signatures and the whole thing that's like a framer and it's priceless right but yeah like to me mentally, and I know this is going to sound, and this is why everyone calls me narcissist. And I don't, I don't believe I'm smarter than anyone in the room ever. Right. My thing is I can see the best in people and I can bring out the best in people and take their weaknesses and put them on display as nothing to do with being the smartest in the room. But to me, that piece of paper I have is me basically being vindicated as saving the internet.

And my lawyer, who was just like Larry Flint's lawyer, just a nobody out of Arizona, is now, they call him Mr. CDA. And he's making, you know, he's defending all these different types of websites now. And I'm just kind of like, whatever, it's cool think personally like hey i save facebook i save well in a way it was about i mean like talk about regulation like that would have like the regulations that would have existed if you went the other way on the internet like it just wouldn't it wouldn't exist the way

it exists now like maybe this podcast wouldn't exist the way no it's a everything has to go through cda you know what i mean like Like it, just an example. If I talked shit on someone on this show, right. Would that person sue me or would they sue you guys? That's, that was, that was what this was. They shouldn't be able to sue you because I'm the one who said it. They should be the person that should be responsible is the person who submitted the content. And that's all I was trying to say. And that's all Facebook and all these people wanted was like, Hey, we need something to basically start making money. Cause once that happened, it was game on. It was literally people, the internet was on fire. Amazon was making bank Yelp was, was crushing it.

And now it just, it just got to a really weird sticky place where, Hey, you know, can you pay to remove posts? And that's where it's now we're in this like weird gray area that Yelp is taking advantage of where, you know, if there's a bad review, you know, just pay us, we'll take it down. Are you kidding? No. So, so that's now, that's what it is now that's what it's become today but when i was doing it it would i i was my biggest thing is i wouldn't take anything down like that was that was my my i have backbone and i will fight to the end you know let's go to court let's do whatever it takes you want to sue me for 30 million dollars let's dance so that was what i was why you can never get into your post taken down lauren yeah i tried what was it was it good um looking back like i

agree with you that sometimes bad promotion is great promotion sometimes i think all the time yeah i think that looking back i find it funny and it's kind of like i kind of like it is that weird to say i kind of like i'm like oh i it. Is that weird to say? I kind of like, I'm like, oh, I've featured on the dirty. But at the time when you're 21 years old and you see a post like that, you want it down. What section was it in? I don't remember. San Diego. San Diego.

Now, though, there's probably forums talking shit about me and on my comments section. And I'm like, used to it. You almost become like a mute. Well, yeah, because it gave you the confidence to become a public figure and understand that this is the stuff that people say don't really mean anything. Exactly. And that's why I look back on it and I like laugh about it because it's so true. It's like you use that muscle that makes you upset on the Internet when people say things, you just use it over and over and over. And all of a sudden you just don't give a fuck anymore. Yeah. I want to go back to when you met your wife in Vegas. Cause it was a funny story. So I was hosting towel beach and I was leaving the beach area because I just got christened in the pool by some priest.

I guess you were going to say a girl christened you. No. Okay. Okay. Go on a priest. So I thought you were going to say a girl christened you. No. Oh, okay. A priest. Okay, go on. A priest. So I thought I was cleared of all my sins. Like that's how drunk I was. Like this guy dunked me under in the pool and I thought- It was an actual priest? Yeah. Yeah. Reverend or whatever. And he dunked me in-

The hell was he doing at Tao Beach? Well, that was the whole thing. Jason Strauss had this great idea who he runs Tao. And he's like, Hey, we're going to clear you of all your sins. And we're going to find a Reverend and we're going to dunk you in the water. We'll clear out the pool. So they clear out the entire pool and everyone's like standing around like cheering. And I like thought I found Jesus. And I was just like, Oh my God, this is amazing. And this is in the context of everyone standing around, knows your Nick from the dirty. And they're like, oh, we're going to clear his sins together.

Yeah. Because I also brought 16, 16 of ASU's hottest girls. Like I brought them with me as, you know, just whatever for atmosphere. So I brought them. So I had a huge aunt, like a huge crew of people and we were hosting. So long story short, I left the pool. I'm like, and i looked around i'm like god what am i doing like what why did i bring these girls like you know i gotta get like

i gotta get my life together so i went to this weird like find jesus moment and as i'm walking back to my room shane who i call onassis now she was at the the Palazzo bar and I was staying at the Venetian or Palazzo, one of those two. And I was like, wow, this is like some hot blonde at the bar. And my buddy, Lonnie Moore, who was there gambling, he was like, oh, I need you. I need it. Didn't he own Ladoo? Yeah. Oh my God. I used to work for him. Go on. So at that time he was like big too right so he wanted to introduce me to shane but he never showed up so i went to the bar he's like meet me at the bar so i went to the bar saw this blonde girl and i started you know saying like i saw her and i'm like god i'm like this

maybe this is a sign like this is the one or like you know i just got christened and i'm like, this, maybe this is a sign. Like this is the one or like, you know, I just got christened and I'm like, whatever. So I start talking with her and she wanted nothing to do with me. And she spilled her drink on me. And mind you, I'm like in a bathrobe and a fedora walking around the casino. And I just told her, I'm like, Hey, like I tried to name drop myself. Didn't work. She didn't know who I was. That got me more excited. And I'm like, I cannot let this one slip. Like I, this, this is this chick, this is it. And then I like walked her back to some cheerleading competition she had for her sisters. And I gave her my number. I'm like, Hey, let's, you know, I want to take you to dinner, like a proper date. And, you know, to her credit,

like, I can't believe she even put up with me because I was pretty wasted. And I was in that weird, you know, phase, which I was kind of aggressive with her because I just didn't want to lose her. And then I got, I got her number. We were texting back and forth. And then she randomly like text me like, Hey, I'm going to come. and she came to the dinner we had this dinner with the owner and i moved all the girls to the table next to us she didn't know about the girls and the girls were just all staring so so the entire time i'm with her this group of 16 girls were just staring at us so i don't know if that helped or hurt i feel like it helped i don't think it hurt no i think it helped i think i like it helped. I don't think it hurt.

No, I think it helped. I think it helped close the deal to be honest. Cause she was probably like, wow, this guy like, well, he's got a lot of attention. Yeah. Like what's going on. And the best part. So we leave, we leave the dinner, we go to the club, did the same thing. The owner's table, a towel. And I had vice was on, I was DJing. And I was like, dude, you got to give her shout outs every five minutes. I don't care what you gotta do. Say, Shane Lomas in the house, this is the one, this is the one. He's like, dude, you're crazy.

I'm like, just do it. Then I moved all the girls to the table right above us. So you're on this date, but you still have to take care of these 16 girls. You're just kind of like moving them to different locations. Yes, and I have a couple of buddies who are like, useless, just partiers, right? I'm like i'm like and this is my high school friend i'm like dude you got it like this is it like leave me with this girl like take care of these and these

girls were hot these weren't like what a chore for these poor young men yeah but they're yeah it is a chore for them because they don't they don't know how to communicate with women so so they're like trying to finagle and these girls are just snipering me and i'm just i could feel it on my back and like you know and then we we're she was getting shout outs i made out with her in the club we started talking and we're in vegas and i'm like you know i don't know who said it first but like hey we should get married and this is probably hour like four it didn't work out because it was already it was already too late you can't i guess in vegas there's like a cut off we tried

to get married didn't work and then after four hours of meeting i've never heard the story so yeah so so after it was like this we're at hour four yeah and then she decides to spend the night with me it's the best sex i've ever had. And at that time I was having a lot of it. And I was like, this is too good to be true. Like I was, I was almost like thinking I was getting set up. Like something was, something weird was happening. And we also should note that Shane at the time, give context of what she was doing. You had no idea. No idea. And she had a show at that time too. She was on The Bachelor, right?

She was on The Bachelor, but she had Leave It to Lamas, which was on E. She had her own show. So, but I didn't, I wasn't really connected. Like I never, I didn't know what the, like, I know The Bachelor, but I didn't, if she would have told me she won The Bachelor, I probably would have like hard paused it, you know, but we didn't, we didn't even discuss what, what we did. Like, I remember us going, driving in the car with my buddies to the little white wedding chapel. And she's like, Hey, I got a couple of questions

for you. Like she started, you know, freaking out. I'm like, Hey, we don't have to do this. And she's like, do you have any kids? Are you married? Like, you know, what's, you know, she asked me like, is this your real name? Like what's going on? So there was like four or five questions that we asked each other and I didn't have kids. I wasn't married. Like everything was, you know, there's alcohol involved at this time or not? No, because this was the next day. Okay. Okay. So after the sex, we woke up whatever. And we're like, Hey, do you still want to get married? And she's like, yeah. And she had it all Googled and like everything was all, you know, it was all set up. And then my manager at the time was there too. So he helped her and I should have killed

him too. Cause I don't know why he wouldn't let me do that. And my buddies were smoking weed and they were like, this is crazy. This is really happening. So we get the tuxedo t-shirts and, you know, we get to the chapel. Weird thing was, is as we were leaving the chapel, Taylor Swift was there and her friend was getting married and she was leaving as we were walking in just random. Right. And then I go in there and I, you know, you have options of what you want. And I want to do the Michael Jordan package because I guess Michael Jordan got married there. There was like a Britney Spears package, Michael Jordan package. And I felt Michael was the best one because he was still married at the time from, from Vegas. So I thought it was better for us to do the Michael Jordan package and I felt Michael was the best one because he was still married at the time from from Vegas so I thought it was better for us to do the Michael Jordan package which came with free DVD two rings a lot of critical reasoning here a lot of a lot it was Vegas I was I'm like

what's the worst that can happen like you know I'm married and I go back to Scottsdale she goes back to Malibu and you know we just say oh it it was vegas right but it like started churning in to us being married after 12 hours of meeting 10 to 12 hours eight hours it wasn't it wasn't clocked but it was it was less than a day it's media wildfire like it was crazy like i was and that's when i started like doing the research i'm like this is your This is this person. For people that don't know, explain the whole landscape. So she is the daughter to Lorenzo Lamas, who is famous for, he was on Grease. He did a show called The Renegade, Falcon Crest. He was that guy, an actor. His dad was Fernando Lamas. Fernando Lamas was the Argentinian heartthrob that was on I Love Lucy. And he was in a whole bunch of it. He was one of the MGM actors when it was old Hollywood.

He was the guy that came up with It's Marvelous Darling. That was his tagline. And Saturday Night Live, Billy Crystal would always make fun of him and do a sketch on him. He was, he was really famous, like super famous. And he was married to Esther Williams, who was an MGM girl. And he was also divorced or married to Arlene Dahl, which is Shane's grandmother, who was another MGM contracted. And you're talking about going, this is back Hollywood, old Hollywood, where like, it was like- And the studios had actors under contract. Yes. And it was real actors studios had actors under contract. Yes. And it was real actors. So are you like tripping out at this point?

Are you looking around and be like, what the, like this? No, I was like, dude, I just hit the jackpot. I thought she had money.

I thought the family was loaded. They had nothing. I got married and I had to pay her like $40,000. Leave it to Lama's IRS bill. Like it was a nightmare. I got played so hard, but you know what? I manned up and I was like,

you know, I made this decision and I kept going with it because it was kind of cool. Like we were going, we were dating backwards, but we were already married. So there was no like, there was no courting each other trying to get to that stage. It's so hard to explain

because we would do these Friday night dates. We would go to Sedona. We would, you know, I flew, I brought her out to Scottsdale cause she was like pretty much homeless. I'm like, know your car got repoed you're you're a full scam but come over here and I'll fix this so I fixed her life set her up a couple jabs in there but there's there is there's some jabs because I think they're not in they're not no no I'm like I don't have the context it's Hollywood i need the context it's all right it's hollywood so she's all she's old hollywood royalty her her family her older generational family has

stars hollywood stars in the walk of fame but in the in the end she's you know she became a reality star she started she was acting on general hospital or whatever that was but she was just a reality star what what do you what did you like about her? Let's start there. Honestly, that's actually a good question. So when I first saw her at that time, I was into a couple of girls. They were my muses. I looked at them and I was like, wow, these girls are aesthetically appealing to me, which was Amber Heard was one of them in her prime. Sienna Miller, I was obsessed with Sienna Miller's face. I thought her face was just perfect. Scar Jo, I loved her nose. So I saw Shane- You're building like Mr. Potato Head.

Well, no, but I saw Shane as a hybrid combination of all these girls. So you thought she was beautiful? At that time, yeah, I thought. And personality wise, what did you like? I like that she didn't like me i like that she treated me like shit i love that so much you guys here's the unlock just act like you don't like them and they're annoying and they're eroding yeah i know but i it works both ways yeah it does work both ways but it really works with men if you act aloof like you don't give a fuck, they always want more. And you have to understand at that time, I could have whatever I wanted. So it was refreshing to actually have someone that didn't like, she wasn't into it.

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Join over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health. Again, that's betterhelp.com slash skinny. Yeah, this is why the context is important because the context you framed out is like you're there with 16 beautiful women. You're in a club that's giving you whatever you want you're in a dj doing whatever you want you have a hotel room you have private jet so like you're already from like the reason guys let's just say i'll contextualize all guys or frame out all guys like the reason they go to vegas is to try to find those things but you're already there with all of those things in excess and it was yes and it was just handed.

It wasn't like I had to work. You know, you go like, and I, and people get so mad when I say civilian, but it's, it's when you live the civilian lifestyle, you're going to these places and you're paying extremes amount of money just in hopes that you can find a girl that will actually not just drink your alcohol. I don't think that's a bad thing to say. Civil civilian. It's a hundred percent true. You go there, you're not set up like this. They're going to charge you the most amount of money for some of the shittiest tables and locations. And then they're going to give the charge least amount

of money or no money and give the best tables to people like yourself, right? It is to get people to come in there and do those things. Correct. The guy next to me and the guy to the left of me and the guy to the right of me, they're spending like 50 grand, you know? So, so for these club owners, it just makes sense. Bring in this guy, tell him we'll sit you next to Nick. Nick has tons of girls anyways. He's not going to talk to them. So you might as well just sit next to him, you know, and you'll get the overflow.

And that always worked. Like literally the overflow was like the key. So they would always put me, pure nightclub was a big thing at the day. They would put me on the stage and they put me in the overflow was like the key. So they would always put me, pure nightclub was a big thing at the day. They would put me on the stage and they put me in the middle booth. And then they would get these whales who would just constantly just buy me alcohol, buy me alcohol, do shots with me,

take a picture. To get close to the girls. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, these girls see like, okay, well, Nick's not going to sleep with me, but that guy's loaded. This guy's loaded. Here's the exit strategy. Were you a man whore before you got married? No. Not at all.

No. I lost my virginity at 21. Like I was not, it wasn't, obviously I wanted to have sex, but like I was a civilian. Like you had to like go and like buy flowers. You had to do romantic things. You had to like really work hard to be with a woman that you really wanted to be with. And I was married before my first marriage was to a model from Chicago who ended up being, you know, a dater for five years. We were married for like a year and a half. And that one was like, I tried so hard to be like a nice, normal guy. And it wasn't for me. Like it just, it wasn't. And I feel bad to this day because she was a really good person, but there's no mention of her.

We don't talk about each other. She never asked me for a dime, which God bless her soul for doing that. And she saw that I was just blowing up and she couldn't handle it. She couldn't handle the dirties to her Scottsdale. And she's like, I'm out. I'm like, what can you do? So, and that was another reason why I hated the site so much too, because I felt like I was attracting the wrong type of friends, wrong type of people. You know, they were all vampires and I never did drugs. Like I wasn't a druggie guy. I would drink

and I learned how to drink, but I wasn't the guy that was party guy. Like it just wasn't me, but yes, I did go through a weird phase when I was, when I knew when it like hit me like, oh wow. Like I don't have to like talk to these girls. They still want to sleep with me. And it wasn't, I would party, do my thing, whatever. And they would still come back to the room. So then I went through this weird thing that I would start doing threesomes and and that was my that was my i don't know vice yeah pretty much like i wouldn't go to a city like you weren't just staying up all night doing hard drugs you're just sex yeah threesomes that was it what was it like when you had this juxtaposition when you're partying in las vegas and now you're a married man and you and like does your whole life change do you still do the

dirty how does that phase out when you're married? Like give us context of what she on board for the dirty. Like when she, like, as you guys got to know each other more now, cause she, she didn't really know what it was. Once she started seeing all like the girls submitting themselves, there was a big section called, would you, it was basically asking me if I would sleep with them for the most part, I was pretty picky at that time. And I would say no. And I would basically explain to the person why mainly belly buttons are a big thing for me. And if they have, you know, Audis or blow holes, I would call them like big ones. So I was pretty aggressive, but I was honest, you know, and people can take it as comedy or people can take

it as reality. But the crazy thing is that women would take it as reality and then they would go get plastic surgery and fix themselves. Fine. It works, you know, like I'm not, I'm not opposed to it, but what I would ever, I would say they would do. And then it started getting really bad where girls wouldn't submit themselves. They would like try to get ahold of me. You know, they would send an email of naked pictures or whatever. And I would have to explain to Shane like, Hey, she's not, this isn't like a sex thing. She wants to know about what she can do with her cheekbones. How did that go for you? A naked photo where you're trying to explain to your wife, Hey, she wants to know what to do with your cheekbones. This is a really strange position to be in. I feel bad for her.

I feel bad for my wife or my ex-wife, but she's the one that said yes. We're doing this marriage thing and I think it works both ways. The hardest part for me was cutting off. I had a really strong, solid, I know this is gonna sound so stupid, but I had a solid group of girlfriends. Not like girls that I would sleep with,

like beautiful girls that I would just hang out with, like 12 of them. You give me that vibe that you have a group of girlfriends not like girls that i would sleep with like beautiful girls that i would just hang out with like 12 of them you give me that vibe that you have a lot of girlfriends i know you i know you don't now you can explain that but i can see why you had a group of girlfriends and it's crazy because i have these now that i'm starting to get back on instagram and i'm asking for advice because I don't, I'm a single guy now. I don't know how to do laundry. I don't know how to do any of this stuff. Right. So I've had these, I call my IG wives and they basically tell you, it's the greatest thing ever. They tell you how to survive in the world. It's like life hacks, but like with IG, beautiful IG wives, I call them. But going back to Shane is, you know, I had to cut everyone off. Like it was like a hard cut and girls were still texting me, like thinking that the marriage wasn't real. And they were testing me and sending, you know, sexual texts, like saying like, Hey phone and she just, she just beat the,

she beat the shit out of me. She literally, we were in Optima in Scottsdale. We were coming back and she, I remember she, she felt so bad that she stopped drinking from that point on. But yeah, she like,

and it took everything in my power to have her to stop punching me. She was that wasted on the mix of pills and alcohol and the whole thing. And it was all over these girls. And then, and then I had- How far into the marriage is this? This is like month six. Oh Jesus. Yeah. So I'm like trying to cut everyone off and I can't like, and I basically, I had to change my number. Like I didn't have a choice. Like, and that's where it started. I should have realized it, but I, the control started happening and the put downs were not attractive

anymore. You know, there's a guy can only take it so much, but she like yell talks and like, she would just constantly, you know, just put me down and make me feel so small. Give an example. Just like your terrible husband. You don't, you don't give me enough money. You're not buying me things, you know, like it was all like superficial stuff, you know, like, and I didn't care for her family enough. Like I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a good father, which was crazy to me because she like is not like the best mother in the world. She's, she's a good mother at doing like crafts and glue guns and projects, but she's not waking up, making them breakfast. I'm taking my kids to school and picking them up from school every

single day. I'm up at 5.30 and I'm literally working when I can and then trying to juggle the children. So for me, I'm like, okay, well, maybe- How many children? Two children. I have a six-year-old son and a nine-year-old daughter. And let's go back for context for everyone. So at what point did you guys decide to have your first daughter? It wasn't a decision. We were having sex and we were in Miami and I came back from live and I just, you know, we hooked up and she got pregnant.

And so were you guys like how, how far along? This was like a year and a half. And are you guys are like, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to have the baby. She was scared. She was scared that I was going to be like a year and a half. I know you guys are like, okay, we're going to do this. We're going to have the baby. She was scared. She was scared that I was going to be like freaked out and like pissed off. I was the most excited ever. Like all I've ever wanted was to have kids.

And I just wanted to have a family. Like I was trying so hard to find some sort of normalcy in the shit that I was doing, which was for me at that time, I thought I could do it. I really thought I could control everything and I couldn't, like, it just was not possible. And it blows my mind how I could communicate with 10 million people on a daily basis. And I couldn't communicate with one person, the only person. And that was what kept me going. The marriage kept me going because I just wanted a breakthrough. I was like, okay, there's gotta be, it's going to happen. Like today's the day,

you know? And I, and it gotta be, it's gonna happen. Like today's the day, you know? And it just never happened. It never happened. What do you mean to break through what? You guys weren't on the same page, you're reading different books. What do you mean? She's a fascinating person that every day

you don't know what she's thinking. Her mind is cluttered. So I just, I could never have a real conversation with her. There wasn't like we would go out to dinner and we wouldn't talk. Like I would try to make her laugh. I would try to do the nice things. She wasn't a thank you person. She was just privileged. She just expected everything. So I was hoping like one day she would buy me something or she would like go out of her way to appreciate me. She never did. And she admits it like that's her thing. But I, I know this sounds crazy and it's 11 years of

marriage. I still have no idea who she is. No idea. Like I know the bad parts that I don't like about her, but I, I could never crack the code on who she is as a person. Like, I'm sure you guys understand each other, your souls, like you believe in that stuff and the soulmate thing. Like I couldn't get to cracking her soul to become the soulmate. And in my mind, I'm like, this is, she, she's gotta be the person. She's gotta be the person. And I was always looking at it from the perspective of, wow, like she's so interesting that she can keep my attention and we're still married. And it like kept going, but it wasn't, it didn't keep going because we believed in the marriage. It kept going because we kept trying to figure out who we were.

And you guys would never lay in bed and just talk, or you never would go to dinner alone without the kids and have like great conversations. There was none of that. That ended as soon as we had our first child. And, you know, and I know she denies this, but like she takes Ambien to sleep. And when you do that, you have these crazy dreams. And in these dreams, she would always like, I would be cheating on her

or like there would be a fight or whatever. And she'd be like full stepbrothers and like punching me, you know? Oh, Jesus. Yeah, jesus yeah so like she like wake up out of nowhere and like actually start you had she wanted her eyes would be closed but she like screaming and yelling and fight and it got to it got so bad to a point where i'm like i'm out like i'm gonna go live on the west wing like i got my own room i got my own setup i'm watching my own Netflix. And we just, I would say by the time we had our son, we were completely separate in separate lives, like separate wings of the house. So you're just, you're living together, but you're not sleeping together anymore. Are you,

are you friendly in the day? Not even a claw. Like I had like no closet. Like I had, I was literally living, like I worked for her, like I was her assistant and, and I was, I have such a big heart that I was like, I couldn't say no. Like I just, I just kept going with it and trying to make her happy. Like I was just trying to make her happy all the time. And I failed miserably. What about when you guys went through everything with losing a baby? You talked about this on Heather. There wasn't, there wasn't anything that you could find within that experience to come together. I thought so. That was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, losing a child. I can't imagine. Well, your wife, now ex-wife, is in a coma and you're literally,

it's making me have flashbacks, but like I had to hold the child. I had to sign the death certificate. I had to name the child because this is a religious hospital. And they were like, you have to have closure with the child. It's really heavy. I had to figure out how to bury the child. I had to do all this stuff on my own. And I know like people think it's like so selfish of me to even say like,

hey, she wasn't there. Obviously she was in a coma or whatever, but I was there for her as well. Like I was sleeping next to her every single night for two weeks or whatever it was in this hospital and just trying to like pray that she would come back to life. And then I was worried, like, what am I going to say? Like, how, how am I going to tell her we just lost our child? It was really hard. It was like super hard. And I remember like, and I'll never forget forget like this how i see it like every week because she had a huge like tube going in her mouth and down her throat and she couldn't communicate i remember she oh she woke up she was kind of panicking and she she saw this big thing like going down her

throat and she couldn't talk and all she did did, she looked at me, she squeezed my hand. And then she took her other hand. She was patting her stomach because she was like trying to do sign language. And I remember saying no. And I just started crying. Like, no, you know, I didn't know what to say. We lost, we lost the child. But I was so happy that she woke up,

but she was still like on breathing tubes and like all this stuff. And she just, you just see the tears coming, but no voice, you know? So it was so intense and so surreal. And the hate I was getting was hard. It was hard. What do you mean the hate you were getting?

Just from the dirty dirty like everyone's like Oh, this is your karma people were putting you know sending me pictures of dead fetuses Like it was I was getting dead cats in front of my door like it was bad. What yeah, it was bad Twitter was Still like that was the big thing back then and people were just celebrating I remember Janelle Evans from Teen Mom was like, you deserve this. Your dead fetus, this is your karma. And I was like, wow. I'm like, okay. But you start thinking, is this real? Is this something that I did? Did I put that much negative energy into the world that it's coming back like this. So, so you question yourself and you question your, everything that you're doing. And, and at that time, all I really cared about was like, Hey, I just want my family home. And I was so worried about my daughter. Cause she was so young at the time. I think she was three and she had no idea what was going on. She, you know, she's just knows that mommy was sick. And my, my mom, God bless my mom. My mom has literally saved my life millions of times.

And I have to give her credit because even right now I'm doing the show. She's like helping clean out the old house. It just blows my mind. But my mom took care of my daughter like she always does and sheltered her, kept her away, kept her happy. And it was like out of a movie. It was just not, it's a really, really heavy story. And it would be, it would be like, you can't like,

I guess if you haven't been through it, there's no way you can even like fathom how difficult that probably was. It was really hard. And the media obviously wanted to know what was going on. And this was, the media attention on this was bigger than when we got married, bigger than when I got outed. It was when you have a child involved in a medical situation and your wife is like touch and go. And these guys

are just, she lost like 16 quarts of blood or whatever it was. They're just transfusing. They're trying to keep her alive. And they would keep coming to me in the waiting room. And that was another thing. And I don't want to talk about Heather's thing, but how she downplayed the whole thing. This was a serious, serious medical tragedy that happened to us. And it scarred both of us. And for her to not feel any scars or it like to mask it with, you know, whatever prescription she's taking, it hurts my heart because this is something that you

need to learn from and go through in life to grow. So for me, I looked at it like, okay, well, I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. And it was the hardest thing I've ever done to bury a child, name a child, death certificate, hold this child and the child looked exactly like my daughter. Like exactly. And the worst part was, is we didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl. We were like waiting out and it was a boy. So this is my first son. And that got us down to the road of doing fertility, looking into it. Cause she had a hysterectomy, but it was more intensive. So she couldn't have childs, but they were able to save her tubes, the follicles on her tubes. They got rid of her ovaries, but the tubes had follicles on it and they were able to stimulate the follicles

with steroids. And we were able to create nine embryos. And of the nine, of course, seven of them were girls and two of them were boys. And the weakest one was a boy. And the third strongest one was a boy. We were going to have a girl because the two strongest ones were girls. And at the last second, I told the doctor, I'm like, I, you know, if, if, if this is going to take, I have to at least give it a shot for a boy, you know, like I want a son.

Oh, give me a second by the way anything that you're uncomfortable talking about you don't have to talk about i don't want to put like put you it's not like that because i've lived my life in honesty and truth and like i you know i i it's not fair to to the world to show their lives if they can't know my life that's i also think this conversation about fertility and all this may help someone that's been in a similar situation that you guys were in. Well, Lion, who's my

son, he was a one-shot wonder. It worked. He came out and he's the best. He's the best. And you guys used is it her stepmom? Explain that to Michael because I was trying to that, and I want to be eloquent. I get that you obviously, with the complications, you probably had to use a surrogate.

It was modern family. It was literally Lorenzo's fourth or fifth wife. Her name is Shauna Craig. Sweet person. She was already working in fertility. She was selling her eggs, and she was, I guess, a really strong candidate and she knew the doctor. It was Dr. Smatrich down in La Jolla and he's the best, like he has like an 85% success rate. And, uh, we decided to go through the process with her

because she, she was so knowledgeable about it. And, uh, I met Smatrich and he basically made me, you know, answered all my questions. And I'm like, wow, like let's try this science thing and see if it works. It's really, it was a blessing. Like it really was like everything happens for a reason, I guess. Everyone was there and the timing was right. And maybe Lorenzo was supposed to marry this person for us, right? Because they got divorced pretty quickly after that. What was it like having a surrogate?

I mean, I'm curious what it was like. How was that experience? It's amazing. So it's like, are you there during the birth? Do you go to the appointments? What do you do? So yeah, you go to the appointments, but you get to go golfing.

You get to go live your life. Like we were in Hawaii chilling and chilling and like facetiming back home making sure you know she's eating like it was it was the like if i could do it again which i want i still want more kids i would do surrogate all day plus like your wife's body is still in check like it it, it was huge. I respect the honesty. I respect the honesty. You know, you are honest. I listen.

I've only, but it's refreshing because I feel like most people, they just go through and they're just like, they, they don't say what they're actually thinking. They don't respond the way they actually feel like responding. I want to live my life knowing that whatever's in my head is going to come out of my mouth.

So it can give to somebody because if they can see that i can have the confidence to talk like a normal person should talk and stop sugarcoating everything like how you would talk to your close friends or your family i think it's refreshing in 2021 particularly because everything is so censored now it's hard this is this is like i tell everybody to do what i did in the past and even the way i think now i would be canceled in 2.5 seconds. But you're kind of, I feel like you're bringing that energy back. You know what?

I disagree. I think the people that get like canceled is because one, like there's two, there's two camps. There's, there's the people that have really like terrible intentions that are out to harm people. And of course,

like they, they get canceled. And then the other people that get canceled are the ones that like, we just don't have a backbone. They pretend something like they've created an image of themselves. Howard Stern like they get canceled. And then the other people that get canceled are the ones that like, they just don't have a backbone. They pretend something like they've created an image of themselves. Howard Stern doesn't get canceled. They've created an image of themselves. That's not the true image.

Yeah. But still like it's the people, you know, cause you look at these polarizing characters, like how do they get away with it? It's like, well, because they're living in their true self and people are like, well, that's them. And then there's these other people that like kind of create these

personas and then they step out of that persona. And it's so shocking. And like, it are like, well, that's them. And then there's these other people that like kind of create these personas and then they step out of that persona. And it's so shocking. And like, it's so, yeah, it's shocking to people that this is what they're like, okay, like you've been lying to me. This is not who you really are. We're canceling you. We're taking you down. Right. So I look at myself like, you know, I'm at 42 and I'm, I'm trying to go to the next stage, which is creating my succession for my kids, being a media mogul, creating this new venture celeb, which everyone please download the celeb app, celebmagazine.com. And it's just, it's doing really well. And I'm actually shocked because I have a really good team and it's so mainstream that people are just kind of like, wow, like he

can actually be a business person. But the crazy thing is I've always been a business person. I think so too. What were you doing after the dirty in your marriage? Because you've obviously been incredibly successful business wise. Like I feel like I did. I missed that part of the story. Okay. So after I sold the dirty, which was like four years ago, and I want to let you guys know, because there's this weird perception that I made millions of billions of dollars. I sold a thing for zero. I sign off my percentage, the partners that were invested in it, they made money. But I personally

said, you know what? I started, I started this thing for fun. I want to end it for fun. And I, this is, this wasn't a money game for me. It never was. It was literally to prove myself. Did that. Then I started- But how do you walk away with zero while selling it? Because how does that even work? All the money went to the partners. I just literally gifted them my equity, which is probably the dumbest thing you could possibly do in the world. But there's no- The next question was going to be like, why? No, because there's no way I could sleep with myself knowing that there's someone out there that thinks that I'm just monetizing off their livelihood. You know, I did it as a person. I did it for so many years. And, and the crazy thing is that if you actually know me, I have a heart,

like I do care about people. I do donate. I do, you know, I do help, but it's not something that I'm like putting out there because unfortunately it's not something that I'm putting out there because unfortunately, it's not the best for my image from what I was trying to build or the brand. Do you also feel like you had a daughter and that changed things or no? No, 100%. I think that changed things a lot, but at the same time, I was still sticking to my guns of what I thought in the moment. If someone put your daughter on the dirty, what would you do? Would you advise her to take it in stride? Because if someone put my daughter on the dirty, I would say this is a great opportunity for you to overcome a microadversion to get better.

That's true. But you're a dad, so I know that's different with a dad and a daughter. I'm trying to teach my daughter. Her name's Press, by the way. So cute. Play on media, play on this restaurant. We were in Napa. That was when she had her first kick.

And this restaurant's called Press. But the reality is I was First Amendment guy. I wanted to do something media-based. So I called it Press. I've kind of raised her completely different from my son, but in a public spectrum, because I want her to understand that she's a public figure. She's not a private figure. So she's nine, but she also wants to be a singer. We started a podcast together called Girl Dad, which was supposed to kind of similar to the dirty. Like I wanted to have a joke type situation and it actually worked. I was like shocked, like people really care.

But that was really just for me to have time with my daughter to communicate about life. She teaches me about what the kids think. I give her a little bit of Afghanistan and what's going on. You know what I mean? And try to explain to her like, Hey, your life is so amazing. And this is why look at other people. So that's kind of my thing. But with her going back to your question, I don't think she would, she would look at it from a perspective of negativity because she actually, people do talk about her. Like, you know, there are people, she has an Instagram, like she knows what's going on and her mom put her in pageants. So her confidence is like through the roof. Would it hurt me? The honest answer is yes, of course,

obviously I'm her father. You know, no father wants their daughter to be, you know, in a bad light, but also I invented the legal system in this spectrum. So I wouldn't know how to get her removed. I'm going to call you if Saz is ever on a site like the dirty and you can tell me what to do. Easy, easy. So talk to us about what you were doing within that four years after you sold the dirty. You said you sold it four years ago. So at that time, influencers started becoming a thing. So I'm like, okay, there's a way I can do this

where I can go back behind the scenes again, be retired in my situation and golf and still make money. The crazy part, the less I work, the more money I make. I just work smarter. I just wasn't working as hard. The dirty, it was insane because I had to do, I would get thousands of thousands of submissions every single day. And I would have to literally say my two cents about every single market. So it was time consuming. And now I look back on it, I'm like, wow, like I really wasted a lot of time. What I should have been doing is focusing on,

hey, how do I make money and monetize? So I started a company called Relic, play off what I thought at the time, like I was gonna be a Relic, go into the sunset, be gone. And then I started managing celebrities as far as from a PR perspective and created this company called Relic, where I basically went to all the different tabloid magazines and websites paying for baby pictures or flat rates for exclusives or whatever, we would do rev shares and we would split it three ways. And it just crushed. We were making so much money and it's still going today. It's still

a great company and I have a great team on the East coast that runs it, but it's, it's a simple, simple swipe up to a baby announcement or an engagement or a proposal. And I would show these sites how to get the traffic, how to make the traffic back out, how to pay for it at a rate that actually makes profit for everybody. And I'm sure you guys know what RPM is revenue. Yeah. Revenue per what is it A million or whatever the, I don't know what the acronym is, but every page on say people.com. You're basically like arbitraging the sites. Yes.

Yeah. So, and at that time arbitrage two years before that time was kind of like looked at down frowned upon. Right. But then as Instagram blew up and social media evolved and people realized you could share stuff and actually make money just because the way that i think it was looked down upon just because of the types of things people were sharing but when it started to

become like actually relevant content that people consumed and got value from then it it's obviously taking on a different light so for example we represented a bunch of Real Housewives. So we would have the Real Housewives share us weekly stories about their show recaps or exclusives. And these girls were making, I was probably paying these girls at least like, I don't know, 20, 20K a month just doing this. And it wasn't loud. It wasn't a product. It was PR. It's basically you going to me saying, Hey, instead of a PR company, get stuff placed and we'll share it. And that's how it kind of evolved. So for, so I was doing that and I'm still, I'm still CEO of that company too, but that was making a good portion of money. And then it kind of fizzled out because everyone was like, Oh, this clickbait thing, this is clickbait, clickbait, which it wasn't because you're actually sharing an exclusive or a quote or something about yourself but uh we always have

it how that's how life works like everything's a movement and someone creates a word and then it kills it right so i was doing that and then um i went back to school back to college like van wilder and and during this time you and your wife are doing better on rocky grounds or like where like where are you guys at big house living in kota nakaza i'm going to the club every single day housewives want you guys to be on right there was a couple times where they wanted to i wasn't into it she really wanted to do it and this last this last go around i agreed hey if you if you do really want to do it, I'll give you, I'll, you know, I'll be on it, but it's so, it's so time consuming and the guys make no money

and the guys get shitted on and you end up in divorce. And that was my fear. It's like, my kids are going to turn into junkies. What guy has it worked out for that's gone on that show? Like my thing would be like, like, and I don't like these prospects, but it's a hard no, because of all the things you're talking about. I don't care about, like, and I don't like these prospects, but it's a hard no because of all the things you're talking about. I don't care about the financial benefit. I don't care if we can promote a business or if the podcast blew up. You end up getting divorced. Like,

I don't want to fuck up my family by going on there and do it. And listen, no judgment on anyone that's doing it. It's just like, Orange County is the worst. Life's pretty good right now. Regardless, like,

and I don't really see the value in creating, like, I always say like people create way more turbulence in their life than they need to like over complicate things and that may make me kind of boring at this stage of my life but i'm like why like why even create the atmosphere where i can like up what's going on right now because that the drama sells right so the people that go on those type of shows, it's ego-based. It's not like you're going on that show thinking,

oh, I'm going to have a great family. You're going on that show sacrificing your family. Yeah, like this is different because we control this atmosphere. Yes. Right? Like we're here, like the decision of whatever gets put out here

is our decision. There's not like somebody else. There's not somebody popping into the room and being like, hey, we're going to throw a glass of wine in your face out of nowhere or tell's not somebody popping into the room and being like, hey, we're going to throw a glass of wine in your face out of nowhere or tell someone's going to pop in and be like, hey, Michael was seen with these girls or Lauren was seen with these guys. That's not happening.

We control this environment. Yeah. So my big thing, one of my key words in life is creation, create. I think when you create, you're able to control your narrative, control your destination. And it's coming from imagination, but it's also coming from a place of respecting yourself because you believe in yourself. So create to me is a big one. But when you start going in, like you said, you go into someone else's environment where they're basically creating your storyline, controlling your edit, which is's environment where they're basically creating your storyline,

creating, controlling your edit, which is just crazy. You're basically giving your life away to somebody. And I don't care how much money they're paying you. And what are the highest paid ones get a million bucks? What's a million bucks. You know, now like a million bucks is anyone can go make a million bucks. If you really apply yourself and come up with that creative narrative in your mind where you can control your own destiny. Yeah. We're talking pre-tax. Pre-tax. So it's what? California? 500K? So she wants to go on the show. You say, fine, I'll do it this time. So you guys sound like you're in an okay place in your relationship.

The last year, we were in a great place in our relationship. It wasn't until, like, I saw some sort of flags, like she was being distant to me, and she started planning these random trips, using the pageant as like her card as, I need to go do this with my daughter. So there was another guy, basically. And this guy, he, I guess he went to high school with, with Shane and Havasu or eighth grade or something, junior high. But one day I, you know, I was home and I was getting

the mail and there's like carts, you know, from this guy and his kids, he's got three kids and I'm not going to name his name. He's, he's so low level. Like it's not even worth my time to even explain it, but I'm explaining how I first found out that there was someone else. And she was like, Oh, it's just a friend. But then I confronted the guy, the guy pretty much admitted it. Like, hey, like, you know, I thought your marriage was over, whatever. And that was it. That's when the heartbreak happened in me. That's when I was like, wow, like. How long had that been going on

while you guys were married? I don't know. I don't know the exact and I don't want to know because every time I think about it, it makes me nauseous because he had, and not to sound superficial, but he has nothing to give. Like, like I literally, Birkins, Rolex, like a G wagon, like whatever you want. Like my goal was to make her happy. And that's how I live my life. And it wasn't until this happened where I'm like, wow, like

I'm not good enough. If I'm not good enough, what am I doing here? Like, well, like I have to accept this and I have to finally, for the last decade, like go back to myself, go back to Nick Ritchie, like go back to like realizing who you are and how cool you used to be and say, you know, you can come and conquer. And that's why I was like, okay, I'm going to start Celeb and start this media platform and start this app where I'm going to start licensing a ton of content and make a Netflix platform that's free. It doesn't cost money. Like this is ridiculous, you know, and find the right investment, find the right people who can get the right. Now that I've built such a Rolodex of smart, successful people that all want to work with me in some capacity, I just need to

find the right tool. And I think Celeb is the tool where I can really compete with people, compete with Us Weekly, compete with Vogue even because it's really a high-end brand. It's a lifestyle brand. And that's what I'm trying to do now is like really focus on that. And I have a 10-year plan and it just, it's, it sucks for me because everyone's like expecting the world in like one year. Like I'm supposed to like pull this magic trick out of my hat and it's going faster than I can control it, which is good news. But at the same time, it's high class problems. And those are the worst problems to have are the high class problems. They're the expensive ones. So I'm in a place right now where I'm trying to get rediscover myself, build this brand

and end a marriage. And, uh, it's probably the most stressful time in my life because I just, the confidence is not a hundred percent. It's just not there yet. yet. And that's just me being honest with myself. Because I can sit here and tell you guys like, hey, I know this thing's going to take off. I know I'm going to make a ton of money. I know it's going to work. And I know it's going to be big because I believe in myself. But there's so many things that I have to do in my life personally

just to put out the flames, put the water on the fire to get to a place where I can take this thing to a higher level. What's it like going through a divorce on the internet? Because this is a new thing. I mean, you're going through a divorce in real time on Instagram story and Instagram. The only thing I can revert back to is the dirty. And that's why I'm calling her names. I'm calling her Onassis. I'm calling her family, different names, calling this dude cupcakes, calling her dad, Ho Renzo. Cause he's, you know, whatever. So I'm trying to revert back to who I am because that's my safety. That's my net, but it's hard. Like it's, you know, it's hard to, to do it because I feel guilt because I haven't,

I haven't, I've not even told the worst of what's happened in my marriage. Like I'm trying to, to do the closure that I need personally through my social media to get out what I need to get off my chest to get just to, to let it go. Do you think you guys can ever get to a place where your friends? No. Why? I don't want to. I don't want to because I love her. Like's still feelings there. Every time I see her, it hurts me. And it hurts me because of the children. And I'm not in a place where I can just say, hey, let's be best friends. That's not going to happen. It never started as best friends and it's not going to end as best friends. Like it's just not like my mentality is it's not fair to me and the things that I've been through and what she's

putting me through right now. And she's literally breaking up a solid, at least I thought it was a solid foundation. It might be for the best for both of us, but only time will tell. I don't know. I don't want this to come off as an insensitive question, but when you say solid foundation towards the end, when you guys were sleeping in separate ends of the house, like, do you feel at that time it was still solid? Or do you feel like you guys were not getting what you needed from each other at that time? Well, we weren't sleeping in other rooms because we didn't like each other. That wasn't the point. The point was like, you know, she wanted her own space. She wanted her own closet. She wanted her own vanity. She wanted her own, you know, and she, she, she vapes. There's like a million vapes in the bed. Like there's,

there's just weird, you know, like her Shane's world was in her bedroom. She even, she would put a lock on it. So I wouldn't go in there because it was so messy. It was like hoarders on steroids. And my whole thing was, I like things clean, neat, OCD. You come into my space and you feel safe. You feel like, wow, this is top class. But the separation of the bedrooms didn't prevent us from having sex. We were still hooking up. But do you feel like you lose a little intimacy

with your wife if you're not together anymore in the same, of course, like I'm a cuddler. Like I like to hold, I want to hold hands. I want to be able to feel the person's energy next to me, like the heat, the cold. Like I love that. Cause it sounds like your issue was not this. Like you guys had good sexual chemistry, obviously a good parent, like all these things. So it sounds like maybe it was just like, maybe you lost the stuff you're talking about, which is like the cuddling, the love. Oh yeah. That was gone. That was gone. So, so that, you know, that sucked. But, but at the same time, like it wasn't like we were hurting, you know what I mean? It wasn't like, you know, our kids go to private school, like they have really good friends. The only,

the only ones that really suffered from this are the children. Like in this moment, this, this time period, the kids are getting crucified, you know, by us, by, by the public, everyone has an opinion. And it's sad for me because I come from a family that, that my parents have been married forever. My brothers are very successful. I have two My brothers are very successful. I have two younger brothers, they're very successful. They're both married and the Persian way is, it's not, you're not, you get, when you get divorced,

you looked down upon, this is my second go round. So I feel like what's wrong with me? You know, like what do I need to get help with? And I have, I've been going to therapy. I've been, I've been doing all the things that I think I need to do hitting the gym really hard. I'm doing everything to be a good partner for someone else, but that's never going to happen until I'm a hundred percent confident in myself and feel complete with myself, which I, I, it's been 20 years. You know, I still don't know what it's like to be alone. You know, like I need to know what that, that feels like. And I have to go through it. I have to feel all these emotions

and I have to feel this pain because I deserve it to get to that place where I can be confident in myself. And I will tell you it's working. Like my anxiety level, I used to get like really bad anxiety over things that didn't matter. It's gone. You're also a big reader. You love Robert Greene. He's our favorite. Robert, when I read Robert's stuff, I think of myself and I think of the challenges I've been through. And I try to compare myself to other leaders and their situations, but he just, the way he writes, he's very direct and, and gives you confidence. And he gives you the historical context of other people that may have gone through the same types

of feelings that you can like, and you can place it, right? You're like, oh, I can place what that person must've been thinking. Yeah. So he's, I mean, he's a beast. Yeah. He's, he's, he's good stuff. You are welcome to come back on our podcast anytime. That was one of the longest interviews we've done. Yeah. And I mean, I have more questions, so you're welcome to come back on our podcast anytime. That was one of the longest-I-E. The website that I'm really pushing right now is celebmagazine.com, C-E-L-E-B magazine.com. But download the app. I'm getting out of this rut of desktop. I think desktop's dead. I think dot coms are dying. I think app is the way to go. That's the future. Right know, only people that are making money on desk and mobile are programmatic arbitrage. All right. So that's where we're

at right now. So my whole thing is I want to get my app fully functional, fully going. So download the celeb app, but yeah, I'd love to come back. I feel like we didn't even talk about anything. We got to do a part two. Anytime you want, open invite. But from an outside perspective, talking about confidence, I mean, like I think, like to pay you a compliment from my perspective, like you've gone through a lot of really, really heavy shit that most people won't go through, both personally and professionally. I mean, even just the stuff about the dirty and like all that. And you seem like you're handling it better than most.

Any one of these things you talked about could have broken a lot of people. So I think you should, like, you should feel good about it, man. Yeah. Well, listen, I've seen enough darkness to understand how to be in the dark. And that's where I'm at right now. Like I'm navigating eyes closed in the dark with a glimpse, glimmer of light. And I'm just trying to get there. Like I can see, I can see a glimmer of it. I'm just trying to get there. And I know I will because I've done it before. How about this? How about we do a part two of this in three months to see where you're at? I bet you'll, you will have some inspiration for anyone who's going through something where they, where they feel down. Either we'll come to you or you can come back here and we'll do a part two. I'm in, 100%.

Okay, because I'd be interested to see where you are in three months. I think it'll be a totally different space. As long as I'm not dating anyone crazy in three months, I'll definitely... If you're dating, they're invited on two. They're invited on two. What?

That's kind of on you, right? I just gotta... I don't know if they could force you to date a crazy. These women are aggressive, let me tell you listen i wouldn't michael will never find out i wouldn't know at this point i'd like michael like the best looking how do you your hair like that oh god don't even ask that red can paste yeah red can paste we could we could do oh by the way i'm here for the the skinny confidential roller i'm not really here for the podcast thanks for talking he came for the roller Hey listen that was a lot of work for a fucking roller

It was. It was. Come back on Three months at Nick Richie You guys check him out Drop into his DMs if you're single Thank you for coming on. Wait before you go We are doing a fun giveaway We are giving away a copy of Get the fuck out of the sun

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