The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - How Our Lymphatic System Dictates Our Health & Wellness With Lisa Levitt Gainsley

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

#386: On today's episode we are joined by  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by Just Thrive During a time when boosting our immune health needs to be at the forefront of our minds Just Thrive has the answer for you. The Just Thrive probiotic can help boost your immune system and heal your gut. 80-90% of Americans suffer from gut issues and these issues can track to many of the diseases that humans face. With Just Thrive probiotics we can help combat these gut issues. Use promo code SKINNY at www.justthrivehealth.com/skinny to try today!  This episode is brought to you by Nutrafol Nutrafol’s goal is to empower women to embrace the beauty of their hair growth recovery with Nutrafol Postpartum by targeting the root causes of postpartum thinning hair-like the physical stress of childbirth and emotional stress of parenting, as well nutrient depletion. Visit www.nutrafol.com and use promo code SKINNY to save $15 off your first month's subscription and free shipping.  The episode is brought to you by TRADESY Personal style is a journey, not a destination. That’s why Tradesy is making it simple and environmentally friendly to recirculate pre-owned clothing and accessories as your style changes. We all have that one thing sitting in our closet that we paid way too much for and know we’re never going to wear again. Now you can find that piece a new home and stop feeling guilty. Go to www.tradesy.com and get $100 off your first order of $500 or more by using code TSC100. Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. I'm Michelle Kwan. In 1996, the world was in the midst of a massive cultural movement that saw women finally taking center stage. Nowhere was this shift more apparent than at the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta. This audience was the loudest thing I have ever heard in my life. The noise, everybody's cheering, and we see all these USA flags. It was the most important summer in women's sports history. And team after team after team,

the U.S. women kept winning. Basketball, soccer, softball, gymnastics. I just said, give me mine. Like, give me mine. Join me for Dear Media's Summer of Gold, presented by Together. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur.

A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Your lymph fluid contains protein, right? The protein waste from your body that when it gets accumulated, that's what gets sort of hard and fibrotic. So it helps release some of that excess protein fluid, not just water weight,

but we're talking about the waste that you don't want in your body, those toxins. It's also wonderful, as I was telling both of you, studies have shown after dental surgery, they did lymphatic massage on one side of the face, and I can't remember what they did on the other side of the face, the lymphatic massage, inflammation, greater reduction. Well, this episode is so fitting, Michael Bostic, because today I told you that I had to work out and I actually went and got a lymphatic drainage massage. I lied. I mean, I wouldn't have cared either way what you did. I know, but I just wanted to have like a peaceful, uninterrupted lymphatic drainage.

Honestly, I didn't know what you were doing and I wouldn't have interrupted either way. You guys know how obsessed I am with the lymphatic system. When I was telling you guys to guess our baby's name, you guys said it was going to be named lymphatic bostic. Yeah. And around that time, about the exact moment you'd receive some divorce papers. Lymphatic bostic has a ring to it. Lymphatic bostic is never happening. Lymphatic, eat your peas. Doesn't that sound gross though? I don't know. Lymphy. Lymph, lymph bostic. It's kind of cute. Sounds limp, like limp. I think that that's why this subject though is so important

to discuss because the word, and we talk about this in the podcast, does sound cringy. It's like a cringy word for some reason. So I appreciate Lisa, who's on the podcast, Lisa Levitt Gensley. I appreciate her a lot because she's making the lymphatic system cool because it is cool and you should not ever forget about it. And you should never name your children after it. It's kind of cute. You guys, is anyone inspired? Okay.

Who is Lisa Levitt Ginsley? She is a certified lymphatic drainage practitioner. Oh my God. She is an author. I'm going to tell you about her book in a second. An educator and a speaker. Her work has been everywhere, you guys. She is an author. I'm going to tell you about her book in a second. An educator and a speaker. Her work has been everywhere, you guys. She is the lymphatic queen.

Goop, Elle, The Hollywood Reporter, Healthline, and more. She's worked at UCLA Medical Center, and she's been in private practice for 20 years. She actually did lymphatic drainage on Michael in this episode, and I swear to God, he fell asleep. So she's a ride or die in this area. Her book is called The Book of Lymph Self-Care Practices to Enhance Immunity, Health, and Beauty. We are giving a copy away at the end of this episode, so stay tuned. With that, I am so excited to introduce everyone who doesn't know about the lymphatic system to it. She really breaks it down here and why it's so important. Let's welcome Lisa to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show.

This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. You give me your skin tips and I'll give you my lymph tips. Perfect. A perfect marriage. I'm going to hop right into it. What did you just say about touch your tits? You said touch your tits. I want everyone to touch their own tits. Touch your own tits. We want to stimulate the lymphatic fluid in the breasts. It can help with breast density, breast tenderness at different times of the month. I've seen on mammograms, breast density gets reduced. And we know that breast density can often hide some cancer on mammograms.

So it's really important that you are encouraging the lymphatic circulation in your breasts. It's hard to get to that area. It's hard to exercise your breasts. I will be touching my breasts. So if I'm walking around the house, Michael, massaging my breasts,

I'm actually going to do it right now. Yeah, let's do it right now. Yeah, yeah. You can be, Michael's touching you. He should do it too. Men have breast tissue as well. So do you think that a lot of people aren't touching their tits enough and things are getting clogged and pipes are getting clogged that shouldn't be clogged? I think that happens. I think that does happen. What does it feel like as what you do? You're obviously an expert and a practitioner. When someone has something that's clogged, what does that feel like? Anywhere in the body where there's lymphatic stagnation, you will feel this thickening, this thicker fluid, as opposed to sort of like a thinner fluid. If you think about any kind of liquid, right? Like something that's got just a little bit more of a congealed sense, you will feel that.

But you can also feel tightness, similar to how you would feel a tight muscle, but a tight fluid, like it's in a river. Is it like it's looking like a ball? It can be, it can be, but it can also not be in a ball and just feel thick and like it's not moving if you ever put your hand in like quicksand or tar not quite that intense but you are like let's it's just not moving it's not flowing why do you think the lymphatic system has not been a taboo word,

but it's not sexy and people don't want to hear that word and they're kind of like grossed out by it? We're going to change that today. We're changing it. Right, Lauren? We're changing it. Your book is changing it. The Book of Lymph. Thank you. Listen, I think traditionally, we are not taught about the lymphatic system in school. That's number one. When you learn about the immune system, you should be learning about the lymphatic system. At. That's number one. When you learn about the immune system, you should be learning about the lymphatic system. At my son's school, I said, you're talking about the immune system? I'm coming in and talk about the lymph system.

It's part of your immune system. Number two, you haven't traditionally been able to see it. A friend of mine is an orthopedic pediatric surgeon, and she was telling me the other day, she's like, Lisa, when we dissect cadavers in med school, you can't see the lymph vessels. It's like the secret hidden little magical vasculature system. And over time, thankfully, we have microscopic tools that we can now see the lymphatic system. And so, go ahead. I can see you guys can see a question. He's falling asleep because

lisa just gave him one no no i i was when you said my question and i can hold up it was how like vast is this like is it like you see one line or is it like just like a highway yes it's a highway it runs it's twice as vast as your blood circulatory so it's all over it's all over your body i might be ignorant here i know i I appreciate this because so many people don't know. So the more basic the questions are, I think is so beneficial for people who are listening to understand that it runs through the brain, through the gut, through the respiratory system, the reproductive system, your digestive system. It's everywhere in your body.

And I think that as the tools have caught up and we are able to see it, the next problem that we need to sort of decode is that people don't learn of their lymph system unless they're sick. And someone says, the doctor's either looking for a lymph node that's swollen if you're fighting an infection or if somebody had cancer and they're either going to remove lymph nodes, check the lymph nodes, or they have lymphoma, which is a type of cancer in the lymph system. Nobody had been talking about the beautiful cleansing detoxification properties of your lymph. And in my book, I say it's the roots of the system that cleanses out all the waste.

So is that what the, another ignorant question, is that what it looks like when you can see it, when you use the tools, is it like a root system? Yes, it has its own vessels. And another ignorant question. Yes. How, I mean, maybe this has been forever, but maybe people have been aware of it,

but how long have we been able to study the lymph system? Okay, I'm going to grab my book. I'm going back to like, I'm like a first grader here. I? Okay. I'm going to grab my book. I'm going back to like, I'm like a first grader here. I love this. I'm going to get out my book. Where are the dinosaurs draining their lymphatics? Where are the dinosaurs? It's funny because I do have a picture on my Instagram about a little bunny rabbit and the bunny rabbit's lymphatic system. But what I love is this. This is a timeline on page 30 of my book in 460 BC. Ancient cultures and physicians by the likes of Hippocrates, Herophilus refer to the lymph system as nodes, vessels, milky veins, meridian, rogers, and dothos, white blood, and lymphatic temperament. Wow. vessels in the gut that serve 70% of your immune system. It's your first line of defense against foodborne illness.

Wow. It's constantly surveilling your body. Here, you can take a look at some of that. I mean, this is kind of dark, but when you get something in your lymph nodes, it's kind of an oh, shit scenario because it moves so fast through the system. Is that why you want to, obviously, you want to keep things out of the lymph system. I think it's hard to understand a little bit sometimes is that essentially your lymph fluid is made up of what your blood vessels, the trash your blood vessels has leaked out, right? Your

blood vessels have brought nutrients to your organs and different parts of your body. And then the kind of trash that leaks out that doesn't get reabsorbed from the blood vessels hangs out in that interstitial connective space in your body where it gets absorbed by your lymph vessels. I'll often describe it as like the, along your roof, the rain gutters that collect the trash, right? That take it out or the sewer that takes it out. That includes bacteria, viruses, cancer cells, and white blood cells. Hitch a ride and that fluid gets moved to the lymph nodes. In those lymph nodes, that's where you have your fighter B and T cells,

whose job it is to say, do I need to mount an immune response? They sample it. Do I need to fight this? Some things can't be removed, like tattoo dye. People get so mad at me when I say that. Why? I actually don't know the reason why. But why do people get mad when you say tattoo dye can't be removed?

Because people love tattoos. They're so sexy. I love tattoos. So you're saying if someone gets a tattoo, you cannot move the toxins out of the system from the tattoo? I'm saying that some of that ink has been shown to get, you know, and coals, same thing, coals, right? Like miners, the coal gets trapped in the lymph nodes. It can't get purified. So it hangs out there and it's often fine. You know what else I've heard is people that do, this is like a really weird term. I don't even know how I know this. People that work in

roofs and ceilings with insulation, with fiberglass, it gets stuck and they say that the limb system has a really difficult time getting the fiberglass. Moving it out, right? It's sort of when you think about all their plastics in the ocean. This is a beautiful book, by the way. Oh, thank you. Emma Lidden, shout out my illustrator. When you think about all the plastics that are seeping into our oceans and they're going into our fish and they can't be removed. So we think it's so bizarre that some things can't be removed by the body, but it isn't really when we think about how many pollutants are in the environment that do come into contact with our body. So in those lymph nodes where you have your white blood cells and your T cells and your B cells, their job is to filter out the waste to clean the cancer out. So then it moves to larger chambers in the lymph vasculature before it goes back to the bloodstream. So that's why when somebody does have cancer, they want to make sure it hasn't spread through the lymph and metastasized? To answer that question. I heard that Cleopatra used to use rose quartz on her face

and roll it on her face. So she was doing lymphatic drainage. I mean, that's pretty amazing. I mean. That's pretty amazing. And that is the thing, right? So many of these modalities that we practice now, and this is really what got me into this work

is when I was in college and I was studying Chinese medicine and why is it that in western culture we are so slow to adapt ancient modalities of healing around the world why is that some of it is because of evidence and science but what when I got to massage school and I studied the lymphatic system, what I love is it's seeped in science. It's based in physiology and biology. So it's not some woo-woo pretend system. It's your immune system. I initially did not know a lot about lymphatic drainage, but I probably like 12 years ago or something long time ago, went to Hong Kong and I went and got this massage. This is pre-jaw surgery and it was lymphatic on

the face. And all I remember is I fell asleep, which I'm, I know that happens a lot. And I woke up and I was coughing and had to go pee right away. And it wasn't like I could like hold it. I had to go right away. Was that my body detoxifying right away? Yes. Yes. So many of my clients get up in the middle and they run into the bathroom. That's good. You want to get rid of this excess fluid, these excess built up toxins in the body. And it comes out, it comes out as urine. It eventually comes out as urine once it's passed through the bloodstream. Right. So eventually it's not like that. It doesn't ever come out. No, it can come out as urine once it's passed through the bloodstream, right? So eventually, it's not like that. Not as poo. It doesn't ever come out as poo.

No, it can come out as poo. Okay. I just have to ask. I'm wondering. Sweat. Not that I poo. Can I tell you something, like a side part of that story? Yes.

It was a couple's massage and I was in there and the door that she went in was like wide open and we were all like, there was me and the two of us. I had to pee. And it was just like an endless stream. It's amazing. It's detoxing. Yes, apparently. People text me the next day, like poop emojis.

They're like, I just took the biggest crap, the best crap of my entire life. It's like orgasm. It's so detoxing. It's right. And also people say they have the best sleep of their life. And that was the other thing that really hooked me in massage school with lymphatic massage is that deep, deep, deep relaxing state that you enter, that deep parasympathetic nervous system. It's meditative. It is so meditative. And you sometimes wake up with this feeling of you're at home in yourself

in a way that you're like, where am I? You're not, but in the most beautiful way. If you have listened to our podcast lately, you know that gut health is a thing. It's a huge thing. We've had so many doctors, practitioners, founders on the podcast talk about a healthy gut. I mean, it has so much to do with immunity, glowing skin, even your digestion system. And what I've found, if I'm ever on antibiotics and I don't take a probiotic, it's a big mess. And just daily in my diet, if I don't take a probiotic, it's also a big mess. I notice I have like this stress rash. I noticed that it flares up. I just am about the probiotics, but here's the deal. After researching them, I have found that a lot of them don't survive from the trip from your mouth to your gut. And that is called survivability. So most probiotics

fail to do that. I think a lot of people have this confusion going on that they think that their probiotics have to be in the refrigerator and they actually don't. So those are two fun facts. And that is why I take Just Thrive probiotic, okay? Especially if you have gas, constipation, bloating, if you're prone to UTIs, I'm telling you you need a probiotic. So we obviously talked to the founder, Tina Anderson. I got to pick her brain and tell me all her secrets. And she told me that superior, because not only does it have survivability, you guys, it also is designed by nature to survive. I just feel like this probiotic is the one it's vegan, non-GMO, gluten-free, dairy-free, and free of anything artificial. It's safe for kids. You can mix it into a smoothie, oatmeal,

bake with it, and it doesn't lose its potency. I made banana muffins with it and it was damn good. On that note, Just Thrive supports beautiful skin, better sleep, and easier weight control. You're going to get exceptional gut health and feel your best. Save 15%. Of course, we have a code for you. You're going to go to justthrivehealth.com slash skinny and use promo code skinny. I would recommend starting, like I said, with their probiotic. And then if you have a dog, get some of the pet probiotic. It's a win-win.

And you almost are like are sleeping, but you're not sleeping, but you're meditating and you wake up. It's so weird. Like even if it's 10 minutes, you feel rested. It's bizarre. That's the power of the parasympathetic nervous system, the rest and digest state, just like in meditation where healing occurs. I love it. I'm so obsessed with this. And then, and I would love to know like what your opinion is on this. I told you I got the 16 hour jaw surgery. I tried everything for swelling. Nothing was working besides ice and lymphatic drainage. And what I've noticed, and tell me if this is wrong,

it also tightens, it removes all the fluid from your face. So I noticed I was getting this like snatch contour look. Yes, yes. And is that something that you see a lot? Yes, yes. That's why I always say it's the massage. It's like that you have it all. You get it all.

It's the one thing where you have it all. You are getting the glowing aesthetic beauty benefits, whether you are coming in for, to shed a few pounds in your stomach. You see that on Instagram, the before and after, right? You get a little thinner in the stomach, contoured in the face, glowing skin. But what I love about it is

the deeper immune boosting benefits. Talk about those in depth. Like I would love to know very, very detailed. Very detailed. Where should we begin? Okay. So what I love about it is there is research that suggests this is the lymphatic massage is the best type of massage for fibromyalgia. It is better for athletic sports recovery. They've done studies on muscle enzymes that athletes, after they've had a big workout, they've compared lymphatic massage to Swedish massage. Lymphatic massage, more inflammation had accelerated the removal of inflammation. Is that because it gets the fluid moving faster? Yes, the fluid, right. Your lymph fluid contains protein, right? The protein waste from your body that when it gets accumulated, that's what gets sort of hard and fibrotic. So it helps release some of that excess

protein fluid, not just water weight, but we're talking about the waste that you don't want in your body, those toxins. It's also wonderful, as I was telling both of you, studies have shown after dental surgery, they did lymphatic massage on one side of the face. And I can't remember what they did on the other side of the face, the lymphatic massage, inflammation, greater reduction. Right? So there's these fascinating... And the other thing I love about it is it's beneficial for people who've gone through cancer. And that's what I've been trained to do when I used to work at UCLA Medical Center.

And I've worked a lot with cancer patients, which is oftentimes when someone has had cancer and they've either had lymph nodes removed, radiation, chemotherapy, they're at risk for a chronic disease called lymphedema. When they remove lymph nodes, it's sort of like a chronic disease called lymphedema. When they remove lymph nodes, it's sort of like stopping up some holes in your bathtub. So anytime you want to drain the fluid, it's going to take longer, right? If that's ever happened to anyone in their bathtub. So imagine you never have that bathtub fully cleaned out. You are always having an accumulation of germ water in that bathtub. It's the same thing

in a limb, potentially, if you've had lymph nodes removed. So lymphatic drainage, when done by a certified lymphedema therapist, is covered by insurance in hospitals. Honestly, I think it's one of the most powerful tools in the toolbox post-surgery. And I keep talking about it and people are joking. They're like, you're going to name your baby lymphatic foster. Really? How do I not know this about you? I love... I'm such... I don't know. I'm not saying I know how to do it. You guys, I'm not an expert in it. I just know how well it works because I got it done so much and I can't believe the benefits. If you're struggling with any kind

of pain or, or, or like cancer, whatever it is, dental pain, I would recommend going to see someone who's a professional, but here's the thing. Yes. How can we find the right professional? Cause not everyone is the same. So I'm going to, I want to talk about that and I want to back up and just briefly plug the book. wrote, the book of lymph, because what I noticed in my career was you can work on yourself. Once you understand the principles of how to work, which you are learning, we teaching this today, how to work lighter, drinking more water in case you can't find a lymphatic practitioner in your own area. I have a digital course launching too soon so that you can have the power back. I have people write me all the time. Their period cramps

are gone. Their digestion has improved. PTSD going away. Long COVID relief, right? After the vaccine. Inflammation after the vaccine. They're seeing that, right? In the lymph nodes. Inflammation in the lymph nodes. They're telling people not to get mastectomies right away because it's lighting up the immune cells because you're activating your immune system. Now, how to know what type of practitioner you're looking for? What are your goals? Is your goal the aesthetic beauty benefits? Because if you are, you don't need a certified lymphedema therapist.

They're popping up on every corner. Some of them are using machines and you're going to get some temporary benefit from that. So if your goal is just aesthetic, body contouring, lymphatic drainage, I say do take a minute, try to get a referral from someone you know. There's lymphatic facials.

Meghan Markle made that famous when she got those prepping for her royal wedding. So a lot of those people are trained in the Vodder technique. Dr. Vodder, V-O-D-D-E-R. He's the grandfather of this work, really, no longer alive. But if somebody has been trained in Vodder, you're in good hands.

I'm a huge fan. I don't know if this has to do with the lymphatic system of the buckle, the massage, the inner oral. Yes, yes. I like when they get in my mouth and that might be because of jaw surgery again. It drains right here. Yes. What I think another disconnect about lymphatic drainage is, is that when people get it done, it's so light to the touch that they don't realize how much it's doing. Can you, and I,

I understand, but can you just, and I'm sure some of our audience does too, but just like explain the difference between this and like a Swedish massage at a hotel. Yes. Okay. I want to back up and say one last thing before we talk about that, which is if you've had cancer or if you have a health condition, then you want to look for a certified lymphedema therapist. They are trained in working with chronic health issues. So that's when you really, you know, now onto your question, which is, remind me. Tell me Swedish massage. Oh yeah, Swedish massage. So many people, they go to this like hotel, they're getting Swedish

massage. And then, and then I'm, I'm like, look at lymphatic and then they don't understand that the lighter touch is actually more healing. It's so funny because it really now is the wild, wild west with lymph. Just because people are still learning so much about it or because... I think a lot of people are jumping on the bag wagon and calling it lymph. I was in this high-end boutique chain of massage spas and the practitioner worked on me, gave me a Swedish massage. And at the end, you know, he walked me out and he's like, so we just got a lymphatic massage. And I was like, you did, that was not, you know, it's on their menu as part of, I'm like, this is not a lymph, you know? So there are varying degrees and even listen, I've assisted the certification program.

Even when you're teaching somebody in a room, there are various levels of teachers who will teach it in different ways. Sometimes people are so, so, so, so light, feather light, you can barely feel it. And then some people are so hard. It takes a minute to develop. What I always like to tell people is it's not a feather light, but it's not hard. A Swedish massage, you are sort of being in that vertical plane down to the muscle bed. With lymphatic massage, we want to encourage that superficial layer of fluid just underneath the surface of the skin. So it's a horizontal movement. So when you're massaging him next time, instead of going down into the muscle

bed, stay above that muscle bed. Especially when we're massaging in those clavicle lymph nodes, your SCM muscle is right there. You don't want to work too hard in there. You want to work that fluid in this very light manner. You want to sort of grip that fluid, move it to its maximal stretch, let go, let the skin rebound, and then keep moving. So it's the sort of like half moon movement because you're moving it towards lymph nodes. It's funny though, because as I, and you tell me if you found this as Americans, we like everything so hard and so hard and so big and more. And so it is, I think that's why you're right. It is the wild, wild west. It's, we're kind of like learning about the benefits of light.

Yes. And I always like to talk to people. You have your type A personality and you've got your type B personality. And I always get the type A people and I'm like, come sit on the couch. That's what we were talking about before, right? Like the fast mode and the slow mode. And what I love about lymph is it really screeches you back to the slow mode. I mean, I almost fell asleep before we started the show and you were doing it.

I was like, I don't think I'm going to be able to do the show. I was about to pass out. Which is why I always sort of say to people, don't like do the lymph, get a lymph massage, like after the big night out, like not before. Not only. Because it just relaxes you so much. It relaxes you so much.

And if you're going to go out drinking, like you're going to feel it. 10 times more. Shit's going to it's gonna move faster ask my husband i've gotten like blacked out after a lymphatic drainage massage because you've been drinking after i went like i'll get it at night because i like the sleep yes but then the next day i'll go out drinking and i can still feel yes and it's like michael's like how did you get so drunk i'm like i got lymphatic drainage see yes i'm not lying she's not crazy i'm supposed to go have a couple drinks tonight And it's like, Michael's like, how did you get so drunk? And I'm like, I got lymphatic drainage. See? Yes. I'm not lying. She's not crazy. I'm supposed to go have a couple of drinks tonight.

I barely worked on you. Dial it back. If I black out, I'm going to blame you. I'm going to ask you a real question. I'm going to come stumbling in and be like, I got lymphatic drainage, Lauren. You can't lie. Okay. And I ask plastic surgeons this too.

I say to a plastic surgeon surgeon when you go to a dinner party are you like huh that person like needs this or this when you are talking to people are you like god i could drain their under i mean mitch mcconnell like needs lymphatic drainage how do you even look at someone on television or a friend that's like you you're just like, God, I could fix that. All right. Hot tip. After I had Zaza, my hair was not as thick. And I was telling my hairdresser the other day, I was telling Chris, I was like, my hair was just not as thick. It wasn't as luscious. It wasn't as shiny. And he was doing my hair and he was saying that it's looking so much better. And I didn't believe him. And then I saw a friend and she also commented on it. And I

am going to say that that has to do with taking four Nutrafol a day. Okay. I do this like clockwork. This is for women who want to clinically improve their hair growth and thickness. And I feel like I was shedding a lot postpartum and now I'm not. What I've noticed the most about my hair is the thickness. So yeah, it's growing. And I also notice even my eyebrows are growing and my eyelashes, but mainly the thickness is wild. Like my ponytail feels so much thicker. It also feels like stronger, if you know what I mean. I looked into this and I found that 86% of women reported improved hair growth after six months.

Okay. So like I said, it's for Nutrafol in the morning. Another fun fact for you, 1,500 top doctors recommended Nutrafol as an effective and high quality solution for healthier hair. So if you have weakened thin hair, if you want it to be thicker, you have to check this out. Nutrafol. You can grow thicker, healthier hair and support the Skinny Confidential by going to Nutrafol.com. You're going to enter the promo code SKINNY, and it saves you $15 off your first month's subscription. You guys, this is their best

offer anywhere, and it's only available to US customers for a limited time. I have tried this personally for months, so I am giving my personal stamp of approval, masterless worthy. I told my friends at happy hour, you should also know that Nutrafol is giving you guys free shipping on every order. Get $15 off at Nutrafol.com. It's spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Promo code skinny. Well, because I don't look at people that way. I don't look at somebody like I'm going to fix them. That's just not in my DNA. I sort of like to meet people where they are and people come to things in their own time. So I don't really judge it. There have been times where I've been on vacations in national parks and I do look at some people's legs, you know, those middle America,

not to, I'm not, I'm just saying, I see it a lot in the Midwest, these thick, heavy ankles, right? Like tree trunk legs. This is often a hereditary condition of a underdeveloped lymphatic system. And so sometimes I look at that and I do want to get into those ankles and those legs. That is sort of the most, or if I'm at a dinner party and someone tells me about what's going on with them, I'm usually like, oh, lymph can help with that. Lymph can help with that. I rarely volunteer my services freely because I value my free time. Sure. I mean, I was nice to you.

A hundred percent. A hundred percent. That was really nice that she did that. But I don't massage people at dinner parties. Yeah. Thank you. He's like literally like falling asleep. It felt so good.

Like you'll catch me massaging myself at dinner parties, not massaging other people. I'm going to start massaging my boobs at dinner parties all the time. Another thing that I'm very into, and I would love to hear your opinion on it because I'm sure you have one about this is dry brushing. Yes. I love dry brushing. Can you talk to us about the benefits, the differences, all the things, because I'm really trying to sometimes when, sometimes when Michael and I take a shower together, I'll get on my hands and knees and dry brush his legs for him, like right next to his butthole. He thought that was going somewhere else. You have such a nice butt. You wish it was going somewhere else. I know, I'm like down there. I was like, all right, and then the dry brush comes on.

My butt hole does kill. On my knees, near his butthole, just like dry brushing. But you know, the dry brush does feel good. Yeah. So dry brushing, again, another ancient modality to help improve the appearance of your skin, gives you more energy, renews skin cells, right? Removes the excess waste off the surface of the skin so that the lymphatic system doesn't have to absorb it and filter it out. It is wonderful for the appearance of cellulite. It is fantastic. I'm a big fan.

I also, because I'm super specific, like to tell people massage your lymph nodes before. Why? Because your lymph nodes, as we talked about, that's where your lymph fluid does its work of filtering out the waste. So if you're moving that brush, if you're dry brushing towards your heart, ultimately, that's fine, but also stimulate those lymph nodes, which is going to accelerate the lymphatic drainage. How do you feel about,

I have a weird thing about putting deodorant underneath my armpit. I never wear deodorant. I hope I don't smell. And if I smell, I apologize. Well, she doesn't wear deodorant underneath my armpits. I never wear deodorant. I hope I don't smell. And if I smell, I apologize. She doesn't wear deodorant. I feel like I, if that's the way I'm going to be offensive to people, I'm fine with being offensive in that manner. I don't want to talk shit about somebody and be offensive that way. But if my body odor offends you, I apologize ahead of time, but I am trying to protect my body from cancer. Can you talk a little bit more like that? Yes. Because I have like, there's one deodorant that I like, but I'm not like a huge deodorant lover. I know, me neither.

And it's funny because I think this past year in the pandemic, a lot of people got rid of it. And I finally got my husband to stop wearing deodorant. I got him to switch from like Speed Stick, which is like toxin city. So the amount of chemicals and aluminum that they're putting in deodorants is maddening, right? The amount of chemicals we allow in this country in our beauty products is shameful. They don't, they, I think they, in Europe ban about 1,300. In the United States, I think we ban like, what, 300 of them? Those and the chemicals and the deodorant, where are you putting it? You're putting it directly into the axillary lymph nodes, whose job it is is to filter out the waste from what? A majority of your breast tissue.

Hmm. So not only should you get, if you're going to, and sometimes if I have something to do, I mean, I actually don't even remember the last time I wore deodorant, get one that's natural. I don't wear deodorant either. This bitch used to wear Old Spice when I first started dating him. I mean, my husband, I mean, like, whatever, you know, they're trying to not be offensive for us. It's beautiful. I think I used to wear teen spirit. Then I got married and I'm like, let the wheels fall off.

I don't think you snapped her. I can relax. No, society has conditioned us like brush your teeth and then put a deodorant underneath your armpits. I say the same thing to my kids. My son, as he's been going through puberty, my husband was like, we got to buy him some deodorant.

I'm like, no, we don't. I agree with you. I'm so happy that there's... and you know what's weird for me is i really try to listen to my intuition thank you and there was something that didn't feel natural to me about clogging my my lymph nodes right and like it just felt um weird yes and I started to honor that. I was like, I don't want to like, and sure, sometimes I smell. Get over it. And a lot of times-

Date someone else. A little more than sometimes. And a lot of times, like with the foods you eat, you're going to smell more. And if you cut out, I love garlic and onion, but when I cut it out, I smell less. THC, you're going to smell that a lot. You'll definitely smell that.

You'll sweat that out in your pores and you'll smell that too. So there are different foods and different drugs that will garner a stench. I eat garlic cloves. So sorry, Michael. That has so many wonderful benefits. I know. So you might not smell. Someone told me too, if you get a yeast infection, you just like pop a garlic clove up your vagina. No, bear with me because you're rolling eyes. When you get a yeast infection, a lot of people put monistat up there, which is like full of shit. It's like an egg. It's disgusting. And so

what I have read on the internet is that you just put, not just on the internet, in books, I've talked to different doctors about it too, is you put a clove of raw garlic up your vagina. Obviously talk to your practitioner. I'm not telling you to fucking go shove a clove of garlic. And it sucks all the bacteria out. It's an antimicrobial. Antimicrobial. I'm not endorsing either clove up the vag,

but I'm just noting that there are healing properties in garlic. I agree. It's not that weird, Michael. I'm telling you. Well, it's the same thing with drinking cranberry juice, like pure cranberry juice, if you have a yeast infection, because cranberries are, you know, they also have properties. I want to do something different with you. Let's move to the next subject. Penises. Can you do lymphatic drainage on a ball sack? Those aren't so attractive either. Well, I mean, there...

Could you do lymphatic drainage on a penis? So here's the thing, and I don't want listeners to get down a road, but what I will say is there are men who have had testicular cancer and they've had radiation, surgeries, lymph nodes removed. And yes, they do get, I don't do that work, but there are certified lymphedema therapists who do, you got to use compression and there are manual techniques that you do to help reduce the inflammation. So I just want to throw that out there to our wives or partners or boyfriends of men who have, that know somebody who has experienced that. What if the guy like gets a hard on and finishes? With any massage, any massage therapist in general, you know, it's just a risk that you just sort of have to be aware of and have clear boundaries and move to a different body part. Well, sometimes, you know, sometimes that thing doesn't know what's going on. Exactly.

Sometimes it has a mind of its own. Do you know what I mean? So you just, but as a practitioner, you can just move to the feet. That makes sense. Go somewhere else. I want to do something different with you because what you do is so visual. Yes. So if you can take our listeners and me and Michael and Taylor, you need this too. Taylor, what's he doing?

Yeah, Taylor. Very quiet. Yeah, Taylor's doing something creepy because he just heard the word boner and he's probably looking for something else. He hears penis and vagina and tits. He's loving it. He's loving it. He's loving it. I would love for you to walk all three of us in the room, Taylor, do it now,

and our listeners through a lymphatic drainage on the chest area. Kind of like you're walking us through a meditation, but you're telling us what to do and like saying, do this, do this. Can we do that? Yes. Little fun fact for you guys. I had a huge side hustle when I first started blogging and some of you may have even shopped it. I had a TradeZ account. So what I did is I got all my clothes that I wanted to sell. I took pictures of them. I submitted it to Tradesy so easy and I sold a bunch of stuff. It was an amazing side hustle. And it's not only a side hustle, it's a place

where you can buy super cute stuff. They have all kinds of accessible luxury. So they have like gently love Chanel, Dior, Fendi, Bottega Veneta. I personally found this Louis Vuitton backpack. It's mini. You guys have probably seen it on my stories. Super gently used, barely even could notice. I saw it on Dorit of Real Housewives of Orange County. I didn't want to buy it in stores. I wanted to find something more affordable that was still authentic. So I went on Tradesy and I found my mini Louis Vuitton backpack, which is so efficient having a baby because I can throw it on my back and push the stroller. If you want to sell, you can sell. If

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Before we begin, what I always like to tell people is your lymph system doesn't have a central pump to move it. It depends on musculoskeletal movement, which is why exercise is so great. It's also a slow moving system. So you want to stay in that cadence. You want to stay in that rhythm. The lymph vessels pump about six to 12 times per minute. So I always like to tell people that's why we're moving slower. We're not moving fast, right? It's not this hyper friction type of massage unless you're working scar tissue. And I also like to tell people when we're first working with our lymph system, we're working the superficial layer. The difference is in the abdomen. When we get there, I'll walk you through the abdomen massage. And also we're first working with our lymph system. We're working the superficial layer. The difference is in the abdomen.

When we get there, I'll walk you through the abdomen massage. And also we're working in a half moon. I like to, as I wrote my book, I like to call it a crescent moon because I'm California like that. You don't want to work in a full circle. You don't want to push the fluid back

to where it just began. Got it. So slowly, lightly in the direction towards your lymph nodes, half moon. So begin, your body has a map. Mostly everything from the right is draining to the right, from the left to the left. If we're going to do a facial massage, the fluid from your face is going to drain to the supraclavicular lymph nodes right at the collarbone, above the collarbone. So you sort of feel this like hollow above your collarbones.

And with the pads of your fingers, you're going to be pressing in that horizontal way. You're not moving vertically into the skin. You're taking the pads of your fingers and you're moving down in a half circle, sort of like a J stroke. Michael, you're- Oh my God, what is happening?

Yeah, what's going on, Michael? What is he doing? Half moons, Michael. Oh my God, where's he going with this? I don't know what is happening. Yeah, what's going on, Michael? What is he doing? Little half moons. Half moons, Michael. Oh my God, where is he going with this? I don't know where he's going. Michael, lay your hands straight on your chest. He's like the perfect student for me. I have no clue what I'm doing.

I know, but it helps me as an educator. Yeah, you got to try it. I got to get you going. So take a look straight down. Beautiful. See what a quick study? It just sometimes takes understanding how people learn.

A lot of people learn visually. What's going on with this guy's motor skills? I'm so little delirious from that. I'm telling you from that first one, I'm so little like, I'm still catching up. I got, I went into, I went into a different dimension.

So how long do you have to do this on your chest? Is it like five minutes? Is it like 20 minutes? So no, this is literally like 25 seconds, right? We're going to do this about 20 times. Then you're going to move the fluid from behind the ear down. I love to use the palm of my hands and it's, you're going straight down. So it's almost like a pulsing, like you're stretching your skin straight down. It feels so good. Right? Well, it's like you're petting yourself. I mean, your daughter, I say this a lot and I write this in my book. If, or whenever she cries, would you ever just like massage her hard? No, no. Right. It's a soft, it's a soothing touch. That's lymph. And also babies, they're not born

with like those, they're like, they're like, just like doughy. So you would never push vertically into her. Can you also do it on the baby's feet? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I have a whole reflexology section in my book for you on reflexology of the feet. What are some points that people can hit if they like alcohol? I actually have a hangover sequence. Yeah, because we are. And actually, you are going to love this. It's because it's the one time the man appears in the book

and he looks just like you. How funny is that? There I am. He actually does. That is so funny. That Michael, you should be the model. He's a good looking guy. I got a little bit of better hair.

I sort of told my illustrator I wanted to cross between my agent who I love and Zac Efron. Okay, you got that. So there are things that you can do for hangovers to get the hangover out of your system. Yes, because essentially that's inflammation. It's headache and your gut is involved, right? So I know we stopped on the face massage, but working in your abdomen towards that left hip, the direction of the colon towards drainage

is going to also help the stomach acid that gets really messed up when you're drinking a lot of alcohol, you get headaches, right? You're not sleeping well. There's also the other part that we have to talk about in this podcast is the discoveries of the lymph system in the brain. Oh, that's interesting. In 2012, they discovered that you have lymph vessels in the brain that work with your cerebral spinal

fluid to clear that plaque when you sleep that is indicated in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, and MS. I mean, all of us in the lymphatic community were like, how did, like, but we knew this, but they finally got the evidence in 2012 that showed how imperative, and it's called the glymphatic system in the brain. And the directors of the National Institute of Health in 2019, when I was there at the Lymphatic Education Research Network spoke to us and they said, they believe that studying the lymph system will unlock the cure to those neurodegenerative diseases.

Wow. We're on the brink. If you're interested in medicine, go and study lymph. It's sort of like this one area in medicine that there is still going to be ways that you are going to see cures unlocking. What do you think about cranial sacral massage? I do it.

I'm practicing it. I love it. It's similar in that rhythm to lymph massage. It feels the same. It's the same, right? I forgot about that. That's one of the best. Oh, cranial sacral.

I will often do it together with facial lymph massage. That would actually be great if you have any kind of pain in your face. After surgery, car accidents, concussions. When you think about cranial sacral and how the bones in the head, they move and they get jammed too. So you really can unlock and unfurl.

Do you have any cranial sacral recommendations in LA? I'll have to get back to you on that because there are a couple and I just forget their names. Okay. You have to tell me. I would love to know what the epiphany was for you to get into lymph in the first place. And I know people normally ask that at the beginning of the interview, but there was so many things to cover with you because I already know you're the expert, but I would just love to know what that epiphany was. Well, for me, I think it really began when I was 11 and my mother was diagnosed with cancer. She had lung cancer and then brain and then lung again. And I grew up in LA and this was the late seventies and no one was

really talking about cancer. And she did everything. We went to MD Anderson for cancer treatment, as well as all the great people in Los Angeles. But she also read that macrobiotic diet was great. Someone had healed themselves from cancer through a macrobiotic diet. So she started a macrobiotic diet. We had a meditation teacher friend come teach us guided visualization and meditation to us as a family. So we would lie with our mom and do guided imagery and try to remove the cancer cells visually in her body. And it was just this challenging time, but also this beautiful, sacred time together. And she did pass away when I was 13. And I think that really led me into this, like, what is the meaning of life at this very existential level?

And which led me to a lot of drinking and but also proactive healing. Like, I want to live a good life. I want to live the best life that I can. I don't want to wait till I'm 80 to enjoy my life. But I also want to learn how to take care of my health. And I read Buddhism and Hinduism. And again, in college, I was studying how are the different cultures, how are we assimilating their modalities, what they've

known for thousands of years, why are we not? And then I went to massage school. And in massage school, they had lymph massage. And I loved it. I'd never felt anything like it. It's like seaweed undulating in the ocean. It's like someone doing meditation to you. It helped my acne. It helped my digestion. And then one day in massage school, our teacher said, if you like this work, you can go so 28 years later, that's what I'm still doing. And it's just always so cool to see how subtle and powerful and beneficial it really is. I'm just happy that the lymph is having a moment because of you. I am so happy. I've been saying this word for seven years. People are like, even you for a while, I thought I was crazy. I didn't think you were crazy. I just, we just didn't get it. I'm so happy that you have written this book. It's called The Book of Lymph.

Tell us a little bit about the book, what people can get out of it, where they can find you, all the details. Sure. Thank you. The book of lymph self-care practices to enhance immunity, health, and beauty. Like I said, I wrote it to put the power into your own hands so that you can do self-massage sequences five minutes a day, whether you have a hangover, whether you have digestive issues, perimenopause, menopause, menstrual cramps, you want glowing skin, you have lymphedema, or you're at risk of getting lymphedema, right? There's even a section on palliative care. And there's also information on exercises to boost your lymphatic circulation. And it begins with a little bit of science in my own story and some

client stories. You can find me on Instagram at the lymphatic message, my website, the lymphatic message.com. And I'm launching a digital course next month. So if you're a visual learner, that is another great way. It's different from the book, but it will allow you, whether you want it for yourself or you are a health coach or a nutritionist, and you want to educate your clients properly, that course is also for you so that you understand how to speak correctly about lymph. I think you're such a genius because you're updating a category that's needed an update for a while. I'm so happy to have you.

It's about 460 BC. No, it's here. Way to bring it all back. Oh my God, that's so genius of you. It's true. It's true. You've updated this category. I think this is a great follow for everyone who has listened to our podcast for a long time. So many benefits. Lisa, thank you so much for coming on.

I'm going to pop my champagne tonight that you got me. Celebrate your book. I'm so excited. I wish I had met you before. My lymphatic massage. I told Lisa, I wish I had met her before I wrote this book because you would have for sure had a section. Well, I think we were writing our book at the same time.

I know we were, but yours was out before mine. I was reading through everything that you wrote. I'm going to gift it to my daughter when she gets older. It's on my list. She needs to learn about the lymphatic system. Thank you. We all do. Thank you for coming on.

Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Do you want to win a copy of the book of lymph self-care practices to enhance immunity, health, and beauty by Lisa Levitt Ginsley? This is like the first of its kind guide and it's really promoting the health benefits of lymphatic massage. It's also so beautiful. It's thick, it's matte, it's illustrated, very digestible, and it has actual five minute self-massage sequences that anyone can do at home. So you want to win a coffee, all you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram

at Lauren Bostic. I'm telling you, this is so cute. It's on my coffee table. You're going to love it. And of course, make sure you've rated and reviewed the's on my coffee table you're gonna love it and of course make sure you've rated and reviewed the show on iTunes see you next time