The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - How To Break Up With Your Friends & Identify Life's Most Meaningful Relationships With Erin Falconer

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

#448: On today's episode we are joined by Erin Falconer. Erin is a Canadian living in Los Angeles. She has had a varied career that includes screenplay writer, stand-up comedian, political consultant and is now proudly, heavily invested in the online blogging world. Today she joins the show to discuss her book, "How To Break Up With Your Friends".  To connect with Erin Falconer click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens Right now, it’s time to reclaim your health and arm your immune system with convenient, daily nutrition — especially heading into the flu and cold season! It’s just one scoop in a cup of water every day. That’s it! No need for a million different pills and supplements to look out for your health. To make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit www.athleticgreens.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media 

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Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. I would say, you know, I would want to have a conversation with this person, or at least on the phone, I would like to have, you know, some back and forth. But the problem is with that, and that's the way you want to lead. If you can do that, that's, I think, the highest respect. It's the hardest thing to do, but I think it's the most valiant. But the idea is not just about you showing up in a respectful manner. To really communicate your message, you have to understand, will the way I'm delivering this message be received by the other person? Because

the idea is that they get why it is that you are separating. Taylor, we got to tell you. We have to break up with you. We just interviewed Erin Falconer, who's obviously on this show today. And she wrote this book, How to Break Up with Your Friends. And it finally gave me the tools I need to break up with you, Taylor.

Yeah. Sorry, Taylor. If that ever happened, I would probably... No, it's happening right now. What would you do? Are you already crying? I don't know. I'd get emotional because I don't have that many friends. Oh, Taylor. Stop. That's so not true. Backfired. Backfired.

Taylor, that's not even true. You have so many friends. Taylor, that's such a lie. That's a manipulation. Taylor... I'm going to hold strong here because after talking to Aaron, I, you know, even though you have this sob story and your life sounds to be in shambles, I still have to. It's a fake story though, Taylor.

You have a lot of friends. No, I know. I'm just joking. So are we broken? We're not broken up? We actually almost. No, it's not going to be a clean break. We almost did break up with you

after our wedding. I mean, you did take your dirty hand with God knows what under your fingernails and pick up a sloppy enchilada off Michael's dad's plate. You know what? Talking about friends though too, you know that finally your dad has forgiven me

and I think we're now back on. No, he forgot. You think my dad's forgiven you? No, he just forgot. Oh no, dude. You're just not even close. He just forgot. I don't think you're forgiven.

Him and I are friends again. No, but after calling me, you told me you were going to suck down on my penis at my wedding. That was your speech. I almost broke up with you. I actually didn't. I fucking loved it.

But what if I did break up with you? People probably wanted to break up with me. There's a still... I think there are people though that wouldn't speak to me and still won't speak to me whenever I'm around them because they're just so... Not ashamed, but I think they're disgusted by that whole thing. So I understand the whole needing to get rid of friends and everything, but whatever.

I might have to read Aaron's book again to figure out how to do this. I feel like I didn't effectively just break up with you. No, he's like a herpy. He never goes away. Or what about yesterday? That episode won't go out, but when we were interviewing a guest

and the episode will go out, but it hasn't gone out yet. And you chimed in and said, you just got back from taking a loper shit. That one was almost cause for me to just shut down the whole office. He was on air and he said, sorry, I just got back from taking a loper shit, which I don't know how that's loper because nothing is lope about that. Taylor, we're not going to break up with you today. And honestly, Taylor, anyone who's going to break up with you, I feel like they need to embrace your quirky personality.

I'm going to revisit the breakup next show. Okay. But you know what? This book actually is legit because there have been friends in the past that I've had to break up with. And I don't know if I've done it effectively or efficiently. We haven't covered this topic on the show, which we talked about there. You're pretty good at this, I feel like.

I've broken up with a lot of friends. Really? Or they've broken up with me or vice versa. Sometimes you do have to break up with your friends. There's different seasons. Sometimes you go separate ways. Sometimes it fades out slowly. Sometimes there's a dramatic exit. I don't know what it is. I have a lot of the same friends that I've had since I was 12. I'm very lucky that way But there have been times where it hasn't been a fit You know and you got to do what you got to do and you got to sometimes just reserve your energy You can only have capacity for so many things. I think this book is super relevant because We are so inundated with so many text messages d, voice notes, whatever all day long,

that it's almost like a boundary. And it's a guide that everyone should have. I really liked interviewing Erin. I think everyone could use this episode. It's super interesting. It goes all over the place. On that note, let's meet Erin. Erin Falconer is a Canadian living in Los Angeles. She has had a very multifaceted career.

She's done screenplay writing. She's had a very multifaceted career. She's done screenplay writing. She's done stand-up comedy, political consulting. She is in the online blogging world. Also may recognize her as one of the faces behind Leaf TV, which is sold now. And today, she's coming on to talk about her new book, How to Break Up with Your Friends. All right, let's do this. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Okay, you can't lie at the question I'm going to ask you. What was the epiphany of when you realized that you needed to write a book on this topic? There's someone out there that inspired this. You know, it wasn't one person. I will tell you this. So it was kind of an epiphany though. I,

my, I wrote my first book, how to get shit done, why women need to stop doing everything so they can achieve anything. And that's kind of very firmly rooted in the female productivity, female empowerment space. And I was looking for the followup to that. And I went down so many different dead ends and it was about about, I was like eight months into looking for finding the next book, very frustrated. And at 6 a.m. one morning, kind of half asleep, half awake, I woke up and just this phrase, how to break up with your friends was in my head.

And I was like, what? And I like tried to go back to sleep. I couldn't really, you know. But the next couple of days, it just kept reappearing in my head to the point of great frustration. And finally, I was like, what is this? Why does this keep coming into my head?

And I started to look at this as I was waiting for a friend that is habitually late. Oh, I had a meeting with her. Hold on, I was eight minutes late to the podcast. Are you going to break up with me on this episode? Absolutely not. Okay. Absolutely not.

I might if she keeps being late for me. Well, that's something we could look at. I think the thing is you need to look at habitual behavior as opposed to like a one-off. I mean, obviously you're joking, but as I sat there waiting for my friend who was habitually late, I started to think about this phrase that kept popping in my head. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I realized as I was looking at all of my friendships that so many of them I had built up even though I was in a relationship with them. I was like, what is this all about? And so as I kind of started to scratch the surface, I had this epiphany that we have this really unbelievable, untapped source of energy and power and support right beneath us, but we're really just dialing in friendship. It's the one relationship that we think is nice to have and not something that you work on and constantly try and make better, like we do romantic partnerships or family relationships.

And as I was waiting for my late friend, I had this kind of epiphany where I was like, it's so crazy. We're a culture that is obsessed with information. We know every calorie, every gram of protein. We're wearing watches that track every single step we take. Even like midnight runs to the bathroom, we need to catch those steps. Marie Kondo has us looking at chairs and being like, does this bring me joy?

What about this sweater? And yet the people in our lives, the people who are like the most important, we don't have this kind of system for auditing. It's certainly not friendships. And so it was in that that I was like, I think there's a really important topic here. And so I'm not going to call any names out,

but there were definitely like people that I was like, shit, I would consider if you asked me, is so-and-so your friend? I'd be like, oh, she's a great friend. And when I sat down to think about it, I was like, oh man, over time, this great kind of rift has happened between us, unspoken and not some big betrayal. like, you know, she stole my partner or, you know,

it's just death by a thousand cuts where it's like little irritations that you don't address turn into numbness and indifference. And so, yeah. I have to know, Erin, did you break up with her? I did not in that meeting, but I actually detail it real time in one of the later chapters where I say, I'm going to confront this friend. And I do confront her. We end up working it out.

But it was unbelievable to watch my own thought process. Like I'm a pretty confident person. Obviously, I'm literally writing the book on this. But when it came to like the direct confrontation of sitting her down and saying something, it was amazing. And of course she was also late for that meeting. So I had time to like my mind to start spinning. And it was amazing. The thought process, how I was like talking myself out of it. You know, it's not really that big a deal. This is LA. Everybody's late. You know, she's in a bad place in her life. I don't think she can handle this if we have a

conflict right now. And if my mind is just going like that and all I'm doing is not facing my own fear about, you know, confronting somebody about something that really matters to me and advocating for myself in this friendship. It's so interesting when you say it like that, but as you were talking, I was just thinking about all the instances, like let's take a professional setting. Like you, you get in a professional setting or a business relationship with someone. And if they're doing things that's not working for that professional relationship, you either, you know, let somebody go or you stop doing business with them or you quit or whatever. Right. It's clear. Yeah. It's clear. And then in a personal relationship, like an intimate relationship, obviously same thing. It's not working. You break up, split up. But I was thinking in friendships, you kind of just hang

on to a lot of people and never even do a self audit of why, like you kind of, especially like people that have been there for a long time. The legacy friendships. Yeah, absolutely. And when I was looking at that being like, why is this? So I'm a therapist and I was like, ah, you know what? There's couples therapy, there's individual therapy, there's family therapy, but there's no such thing as friendship therapy. And what that means to me is that there's no language for navigating conflict in these relationships. There's no kind of blueprint of what boundaries are acceptable and what's right, how to get in or out gracefully of these relationships and like in the larger zeitgeist, right? So because we're not having

these conversations, because we don't have this kind of just out there, we don't do anything about it, right? And so that was one of the big impetuses of the book is like, let's create some language around this. I was being interviewed the other day by Maria Menounos for her podcast. And by the end of her podcast, she said, okay, okay, Erin, I have this friend. We've been friends for a long time. Literally the last 10 times we've made plans and we've made very specific plans. We've been very excited about making these plans. And without fail, either the night before or the morning of, the friend cancels. And she goes, look, look.

She holds up her phone. She goes to me. And you can see clearly, like clear plans, cancel, clear plans, 10 times. She goes, well, what am I supposed to do with this friend? And I said, Maria, I have news for you. That's not a friend. You're not in a friendship with this person. You're in some kind of weird relationship, but it's not a friendship. This person has not news for you. That's not a friend. You're not in a friendship with this person. You're in some kind of weird relationship,

but it's not a friendship. This person has not committed to you. This person's not committed to this relationship. I said, let me put it another way. If you were just started dating this guy and 10 times you made plans and he canceled, she goes, I would have dropped him after the second time he canceled.

I go, exactly. Because when it's with romantic relationships, there's so much clarity around what is and what isn't acceptable. There's so much clarity around listening to yourself and saying, oh, that doesn't sit right with me. Okay, I'm going to act on it. But in friendships, I said, Maria, how many times is this person going to cancel on you before you're like, this is unacceptable, this relationship, and I deserve better than this, right? And so that's a good example of where, to your point, the differences.

Yeah, even when you were talking, like it's so clear cut in professional relationships and intimate relationships, right? Like if we was working with someone and they canceled like that 10 times, you wouldn't work with them. Or if they were late eight times, you'd fire them or you'd quit, whatever.

Don't you think that the reason a lot of, and I'm going to call out women here, women foster these friendships are because they're addicted to call out women here. Women foster these friendships are because they're addicted to chaos from their childhood. Because I started to notice when I was about 18 that I was attracting a certain type of friend. Yeah. And I started to be like, wait, this is not on the friend I'm attracting. Absolutely. This is on fucking me. I need to take some accountability here. I'm attracting this chaos into my life because

my relationship with my husband is very consistent. My relationship with my child is very consistent. My family, same. But there was something that almost I think I was addicted to the chaos. Right. Yeah. So a couple of things there, certainly. So there's a thing called your attachment style in the world of psychology. And basically what that means for anybody listening that doesn't know is when you are born into the world, you have one or two primary caretakers. And in theory, they should be there meeting all of your needs,

feeding you, putting you to bed, changing you, all of that stuff. And then also energetically being there for you. And if you do not have that, what can happen is you create an insecure attachment, okay? Which means you cannot trust other people for the rest of your life until you realize in this yourself and then work through it that anybody is not going to be able to hold space for you or be there for you or they might abandon you. And a lot of times,

what people do who haven't identified this in themselves, bring this into all of their present day relationships, including friendships. And so a lot of times what they end up doing is playing out those kind of complications from their childhood in their friendships, hoping to seek resolution, but that's not how you do that. Right. And so I'm not sure if it's necessarily addicted to the drama, but it is certainly often inevitably tied to what has happened in very early childhood. And until you take responsibility for your own, the way you're showing up in friendship, it's so easy to say to somebody, and I hear this all the time, she's toxic, he's toxic, whatever. And I'm like, the thing is, is that, sure, there are some bad

people, right? But largely, there are, what happens is, in a relationship, it is relational. In other words, there might be one of the two of you not doing great things, but what in you is staying there, right? And it is this idea of looking at yourself and then taking responsibility for not necessarily creating it, but allowing it. And then of course, vice versa, if you're the one creating it, but it is the ownership of, it's not the other person. It's not out there. You are an active part in this relationship. And when you take responsibility for that, that's where personal power starts to come from, right? When you throw it out and say, oh, he's toxic or she's toxic, what you're doing is giving all your power away.

You're letting life happen to you as opposed to being active in life or in those relationships. I would love to talk about non-negotiables. So for me, I'll just give you one of mine. Non-negotiable for me with a friendship is, and this is at this point in my life, is someone who's flexible and low maintenance. A non-negotiable for me with a friendship is, and this is at this point in my life,

is someone who's flexible and low maintenance. And what I mean by that is they're not asking me to constantly fill up their cup and having this high expectation. I'm pregnant. I have a daughter. I have a two-year-old. We're back and forth from LA. There's a lot going on.

So in this season in my life, I need someone with a little bit of flexibility. Do you have non-negotiables in this book? And if so, what are they? Another morning of me being woken up by my alarm clock. And that alarm clock is Michael Bostic stirring his athleticic Greens aggressively in a glass cup. I have not skipped a day in three months straight of Athletic Greens. We just did

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Definitely, definitely. The first part of this piece, which is the most important part, is the self-awareness piece. Who am I? Where am I? How did I get here? Where do I want to go? Understanding. So you just laid out exactly where you are in your life and what you need in your life. So until you understand those needs, nobody can understand those for you. And most people are going through life not even doing the self audit, yet alone the friendship audit, right? So the first, the starting point for anything is getting clear on your needs, your non-negotiables, your must-haves, all of those things, and then going out and enforcing them, right? Or choosing people that support them. So I think the answer to that question is very personal, right? Or choosing people that support them. So I think the answer to that question is very personal, right? What makes you tick? Like some people don't mind if somebody shows up late,

I have a real problem with it, you know? So I have a whole list of things to definitely look at, like the core kind of, these are things that if they're not happening, they're kind of disrespectful. And then there's the other things to ask yourself about where you are in your life that are specific to you that only you can answer. And at the end of each chapter, there's homework. So there's direct homework on that specific. What are your non-negotiables, Michael Bostic? Well, actually, I'm going to take it in a different direction. We can go back to my non-negotiables. But I think I personally, I did this kind of like self-assessment probably 15 years ago. When was the last time I was in college? A while-assessment probably 15 years ago.

What is that? When was the last time I was in college? A while ago. College. I'm getting up there. But I did this kind of like audit. And I wonder if you have a thought on this, distinguishing between acquaintances and friends.

Oh, certainly. And what my self-assessment came down to is, I personally only had so much energy and so much time with everything else going on available to me to basically put into full-on friendships. And when I I say that, meaning if I'm going to actually call somebody a friend and do everything that I think goes with a friendship, I want to be able to serve that friendship the best of my ability. And I realized I couldn't do that with everybody in my life. So I kind of did this audit where I said, okay, these are my real true friends because of

X, Y, and Z. And I have a lot of really great acquaintances and people that I love to be around, people that I like to see, go to dinner or see them once in a while. If we're in the same city at the same time, we'll get together. But I don't necessarily, it's a friendship, but it's more of like a really just a strong acquaintance. And the reason I distinguish that way is because I feel like when you look at it like that there's not the same type of demand as there is on a friendship like I can have relationships with people where I see them and I was like wow it's a real pleasure to be around them and have fun

but I feel like men understand that and women don't sometimes. Well I don't want to distinguish between men and women but my point is do you ever think about self auditing the acquaintances in your life and the friends and realizing that maybe there's not a limitless possibility of so many friends? You only have so many in your life.

For me, it's okay. So there's so many things I want to talk about what both of you just said. So 100%, the thing to do, and that's why the auditing part of it is so important, is that this is just math. If you have a basic understanding of what true friendship is, it's just a numbers game. You can't have 25 friends. Just mathematically, you cannot. It's impossible. Or else you and I have a different definition of what friendship is, true friendship, right? And it sounds like we're very aligned on our definition of friendship. So yes, and it's really important to identify that core group that is going to be your, you know, the person you can go to when you have a problem, the person that you can go to when you have great

news to share, the person that you have, you want to pick their brain on creative ideas and you know they really see and know where you're coming from as a person, right? That is super important. And I literally outlined in the book also the importance of acquaintances or a kind of, I named them acquaintances, but, you know, second tier friendships. They're so important. And the thing is when we group them all together, what happens is we over put emphasis on the acquaintances and under put importance on the friendships. And what we end up doing is diluting this idea of true friendship, which I think is a real problem and specific to this exact time that we're in when we have social media where we've got like so many different kinds of friends,

which now you can have like millions of friends, right? But you can't. Mathematically, you can't. And Lauren, to your point, like where you're at, you're pulled thin. You've got your career. You've got a young baby at home. You're pregnant. You're, to your point, where you're at, you're pulled thin. You've got your career. You've got a young baby at home. You're pregnant. You're about to have a new baby. So you just can't have 25 friends. There's no bandwidth for that. And so recognizing that and then making choices around who is actually going to be in that core group is so important. Just the action of making

the choice is super empowering and I think gives renewed energy to those friendships. And also respecting the fact that you do have this outer tier that are valuable. They're not ride or die, but they provide value and they're nice to have. And you can see that they provide joy. They shouldn't really be providing any angst though. You know what was tough though? There was probably a four to five year period after I came to that realization where it was rough because you lose what you categorize as friends. And it's like,

they still have a lot of love for some of these people, but the dynamics have changed. One of my best friends is the guy that he gets invited to every single wedding. He's asked to be the groomsman at every single wedding.

And he's resentful. And he's mad. Because he's like, these are not real. He even says to me a lot of times, why are these people asking me to do this? And why am I spending $8,000? Because he's saying yes. Yes.

And I'm the guy now. That's why he's doing it, because he keeps saying yes. For a while, I kind of had to battle this. I'm like, man, I'm not really getting invited to any weddings. I'm not getting invited. But then I realized, I'm like, of course not. Because that's not the energy I'm bringing to that relationship. Right, exactly. But that's what I prefer because I'm like, of course not, because that's not the energy I'm bringing to that relationship. Right, exactly.

But that's what I prefer because I don't, I wouldn't be able to commit in the way that a real groomsman or a real friend or like all these things should commit if that was actually the relationship. Yeah, absolutely. I want, oh, sorry. Oh no, I was just going to say that I want to stay

on the fact and people can say there's no difference, but there is a difference between men and women yes and that's one of the things i was gonna well that's what it just is so so it there is and in my experience there really is and and both in my first and second book i draw the i draw points of differentiation between men and women and so so often in both books, what I do is look fondly upon the way that men operate in certain circumstances. And in friendship is one of the ways that I really think that we could take a lesson from in the sense that, and this is completely true in my own life. It's true in me witnessing my brother with his friends and even my husband with his friends. When men are in relationships, they're so much more clear. If there's something

that's bothering them, they just kind of say it. I mean, maybe they'll let it go once, but not twice. And they'll pick up the phone and go, hey, man, that wasn't cool. Why did you do that? And then the guy will say, well, I did it because of this. Or he'll say, oh, sorry, I didn't know I was doing that. And then they hash it out and then they go for a beer. And then it's literally forgotten. And with women, like just going back to the experience I was talking about, talking to my friend who is chronically late, it's like the scenarios that I play in my head,

like about just to say something that's so like, hey, don't be late. You know what I mean? And the amount of energy used and then trying to project, like what will her response be? And then how will her friends that are mutual friends take playing these crazy narratives that never happened by the way.

And then even when we, you know, talk about it and find resolution, I feel like in my mind, I'm still like workshopping what went down and like, it's never resolved, resolved. I mean, it doesn't necessarily continue to be a problem, but when I'm watching men and with me, with my male friends, it's so like, it's, I have a completely different way of navigating conflict. When one of them pisses me off, I literally just go like, hey, why are you doing that? That's rude. Stop it. And they respond so well. I think to speak from a man's perspective, I think we're good at rolling with the seasons

of a friendship. And when I say that, it's like, we all joke in our friend. Like now I'm somebody, like I'm not at the bars anymore. I'm married. I got a kid on the way. And my friends that used to do all this stuff were like, oh yeah, well, Michael's just doing that now. Like whatever. But when I come back and I'm ready to hang again, they're like, oh cool at the bars anymore. I'm married. I got a kid on the way. Another one. And my friends that used to do all this stuff are like, oh yeah, well, Michael's just doing that now. Like whatever. But when I come back and I'm ready to hang again, they're like, oh cool.

They get it. Like there's a pass. It's not like, hey man, you change. You're not the same guy you used to be. People, you know, people that do that, that's kind of strange. But I feel sometimes, at least in the friendships

I've observed with my wife, it's like they expect her to be the same person every season of her life. And when she's not, it's a problem for them. I have to be honest. I prefer, hey, let's go grab a beer.

And I prefer, and I'm not saying I prefer male friendships. I prefer a masculine energy undertone in my friendships. Me too. And I don't know if that's because I'm super committed to my work, but I prefer a very non-bullshit straight to the point I don't want to waste energy on drama let's go have a beer and a lot of my a lot of my best friends are guys I do have girlfriends but if I look at the girls that I'm best friends with there is a masculine energy undertone right

exactly and so it's it it is there is a difference there is a really big difference and I think that like paying attention to it and just learning again, learning what your needs are and how you operate in the world and also saying, okay, if I'm not comfortable operating like this, let me see if there's a better way to do this.

Because somebody being late, for example, isn't the end of the world. But if you let it go, it becomes this big thing. And then there's so much more on it. Just say, hey, stop showing up later. We can't hang out anymore. All right. Got it. Can we go granular and maybe you highlight some examples of who's an acquaintance, who's a friend, and who's somebody that maybe shouldn't be an acquaintance or a friend. Yeah.

And I know that's going to vary for every different person, but just some of the things high level that you see. Sure. If you follow along on Instagram stories, you know, I've been wearing this gold chain that I'm absolutely obsessed with. It's by Ring Concierge. I wear it with every single one of my necklaces. And sometimes I even wear it alone. But after having her on the podcast, her name's Nicole. She's so major. She has the best taste. She sat down with the most beautiful jewelry. She knows how to stack. I just became so inspired by everything jewelry. I've been texting her, annoying her,

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Listeners of the Skinny Confidential Him and Her get an exclusive 15% off code for the jewelry at Ring Concierge with code SKINNYRING. Use code SKINNYRING. You guys, I'm warning you, it's beautiful jewelry. So I think the thing that you want to do is when you're looking at kind of who's on your friend, close friend roster, and you of course start with yourself and you say, okay, what are my needs? Where am I? And you're looking at who's in your life. You first of all, want to make sure that not everybody in your life is an echo chamber in the sense that they're completely like you and their experiences are completely like you.

And so your core values should be like you, but then there should be a lot of differences. So the first place to start is that if you're looking at that core group and everybody is the same, and then you're going to want to actively try and find somebody, not in a tokenized way, but in a way that like, oh, let me see if I can expand, not just my friend group, because one of the beautiful things about friendship is they're nice to have, they're great for a million. I wrote a whole book about why they're so great. But one of the most important parts is, I think, the relational aspect of friendship, only through that can you unlock different parts of yourself, right? It's through relations with others that you can find different parts of yourself. And so your friend group really needs to be kind of dynamic. So the first thing you want to do is you need to have a

core set of values. You need to feel like trust with them and they, you, this is all reciprocal. So everything I'm saying about them is obviously true in the reverse as well. You want somebody that compliments where you are in life and then also mirrors it, right? So you've got the person, the mom friend that totally understands about whatever you're going through at the moment. But then you want somebody that also has a different point of view so that provides levity and a different experience. So you're not siloed in just one way of being. And then so in terms of acquaintances, I like to say that those those friends can be like situational so if you are a mom or dad and you have your like soccer your kids soccer friends who you like you like to see a couple of the other

dads or moms you have a great time maybe you'll go grab a bite with them once in a while after a game but it's like very situational you can have work friends of course a work friend can become a core friend but you can have a group of friends that or people that you like and respect and like to hang out with at work, but they're not necessarily ride or dies. You can have your friend that you see like at your yoga class, your acquaintance friend. I mean that you see at your yoga class, you always like seeing them. If you bump into them on the street, that's great too, but they're not somebody you're going to be like, let me invite you to my wedding or my, you know what I mean? So I think you just have to look at most importantly, who are the people on your starting

lineup and make sure you've got somebody that helps you bring out the creative part of you, the funny part of you, the person that is kind of nurturing or supportive, you know, that kind of thing. And make sure that like there's a dynamic representation so that you can show up dynamically. I have noticed this and this is like kind of going off on a tangent that there is a lot of people out there that if you don't have the same political opinion or you don't have the same religious opinion, you're out. For me, I'm like, give me every type of different person. Like, let's hear their views exactly why are we getting to this place where we have to surround ourselves with everyone who fucking agrees with us

yeah well I mean I think what's happening is we're just caught up in a complex of total fear and and and you know especially you know coming out of a very regardless of what side you fall on, a very contentious political four years, and then a very, very, very tense and continues to be somewhat tense pandemic. People are so rooted in their fear. They're so afraid of anything that's different than them or challenging to them. And so they just, I think it's a control thing where they just want to feel like they're right. And so they surround themselves with people that have no dissenting opinions that confirm and validate who they are. So friendship can reveal many different parts of yourself, but it can also create something that is totally persona driven. If you have everybody that's the same, then all of a sudden you start

becoming your persona as opposed to having a healthy relationship with the person that you present to the world. And that's really dangerous. But the more you get into that water, the more you need people to validate who you are. And the thing is, the important thing is, you want to have somebody that has the same core values.

But from there, if somebody is a Republican or an independent or whatever their political views, as long as their core values are the same, it's worth spending time and seeing where they're coming from. How did that, even if you don't still agree with that at the end, I think it's food for thought. And I think it expands, it opens the aperture on who you are. So it's a win. Yeah. Like the simplest example is, you know, there's this group of friends sometimes and maybe everybody in the group is in a toxic, intimate relationship, but they're all sitting together.

And instead of having an outside person that would step in and say, hey, you guys are in terrible relationships. They all kind of like soothe and validate each other and say it's okay. It's a great example because it's like that's what you feel like you just need to hear at that point.

But the problem is then you start believing it. Because not because you're not going to go to the outside person that's going to say hey let me challenge you a bit and say maybe this isn't the right relationship you're going to go to the comforting friend that's going to say it's okay you know he treats you like shit but stay there yeah exactly also geography is interesting for instance I noticed when I moved out of LA looking back on that experience because we're from San Diego okay there there's a lot I'm not going to we're from San Diego. Okay. There's a lot, I'm not going to say everyone, because it's definitely not everyone. There's a lot of people in LA who I call lily pad friends. Okay. So this is like this thought that comes to my head. So a

lily pad is like, I'm using you to get to somebody else. Right. And then I'm going to get to somebody else to get to somebody else to get to somebody else to get to like a celebrity or whatever it is. Right. I noticed that like it's it reminds me of that meme, the board of like all the lines. I felt like sometimes in L.A. that people I don't know, I'll give an example. Maybe you would try to befriend me to get on Dear Media to my husband. You know what I mean? Right. There's like this undertone of like opportunistic-y vibes. Do you notice in different areas, there's different things?

Oh yeah, definitely. Sure. Like the environment is such a factor. And I think like, yeah, unfortunately in LA, that is very, you know, very, very common. And that's why it's all the more important to do this audit and say like, hey, even if that And that's why it's all the more important to do this audit and say, like, hey, even if that friend who's like trying to get to you to get to somebody else,

even if you had a good history with them in the past, you know, and an authentic one, you really need to evaluate what's going on now and where you are now to say, hey, is this cool? Because if not, like, I need to bounce out of this. And I think, you know, there are so many different, all over the country, there are different things affecting different people. And a lot of them are political, unfortunately, but those things like can really define slash mess up the climate of friendship wherever you are. So you just have to be like focused on what's going on and what's real and what's true for you and what's not. How do you, so I want to give you another example.

I was thinking there's been periods in my life when I've had people that I've considered close friends. And I still think very fondly of these people. And I think, and I guess the dynamic, like I would call them a friend, but really like if you were like to define it, it's probably more of like acquaintances at this stage. Right.

I wonder if you think like the reverse of, you know, you have a friend and then that friend kind of becomes an acquaintance. A lot of people have trouble with that shifting dynamic. And especially somebody who, you know, maybe got a lot of time with you. And then as you grow, you kind of grow apart, but you're still. You still feel very fondly about them. But you're just not like, you're just not as connected with them as you used to be. Let's use old college roommates, for example. That's an easy example. Yeah. So yeah, here's the thing. The goal of being human, I think, or a very good goal to have

is to constantly be expanding, growing, being a dynamic person. And that change with change evolves you going in a different direction sometimes than people that you were friends with, just either circumstantially, like you moved away or they chose a different path in life, you know, and so there's distance between you. But that doesn't mean that that friendship is a not still, it's still alive in a certain form. It's not going to be your core ride or die, but it's still there. You think fondly of it. The problem, the only problem is if one of the two of you wants to still keep engaging. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. So then, so then that's.

What do you do in that situation? Both as the friend that wants to keep engaging or as the friend that is kind of. Right. Yeah. So, yeah. So, so that's tricky right because you don't want to necessarily like blow this person out of the water but you do kind of want to because what will happen over time is if they're keep being persistent about hanging out or connecting and you don't have bandwidth or you're just not in the same place then what happens is there starts to be a growing resentment and irritation on your part, like irritated and feel like, oh God, why doesn't this person just get it? And then that person is obviously disappointed or frustrated or getting upset. And what happens over time is then instead of the defining moments of

those friendship being great and warm, and you've got a great feeling about this person in the relationship, now what you're leading with or this relationship is leading with is irritation, disappointment, letdown. So even if it's difficult to have a conversation, I think it's still worth it to preserve the good that there was and the foundational good in your life, not just relationally, but like how that relationship served you, right? So I think it's good to have a conversation saying, I know you keep trying to connect with me. I just want out of love and respect for the relationship from a bandwidth perspective. I mean, I will always think fondly with you. And if we see each other, I'm happy to do it. But where I'm at right now is I just feel like I'm disappointing you because I don't have the bandwidth for it. I

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is absolutely incredible if you want those thick, flirty lashes that we all want. Right now, if prescribed, new members will receive 10% off of eyelash growth serum from Roderm when you go to roderm.com forward slash skinny. Shipping's free and you'll get free and unlimited follow-ups with your healthcare provider to support you throughout your eyelash growth journey. Roderm.com forward slash skinny. I feel like people do sometimes take it personal because it hurts the ego. Sure, sure. And I feel like... Because it's almost like a signal.

She's like, I'm not carrying you forward with me as one of my close friends. Well, that's their problem. Right. That's their problem. And that's what I feel like... Because that's not what you're saying, is it? No, of course not. That's not what you're saying. But you're right. That's how problem. Right. That's their problem. And that's what I feel like. Because that's not what you're saying, is it? No, of course not. That's not what you're saying.

But you're right. That's how people take it. But they have to do their own work. That has nothing to do with you. See, that's the problem where you think. Like, turn the volume up on that one. Yeah, that's their problem. And they need to do their own work.

And that's why I'm constantly bringing it back to this idea of audit, especially if you have been the receiver of something of that. Do your own work and understand this is not personal, even though you were in a personal relationship with this. In fact, I think it requires deep respect and admiration for the other person to have taken the time and energy to not ghost you, to not just keep leading you along and say, listen, I really respect and love you.

And I have a really warm place in my heart for this relationship and where we came from. But I'm just wanting to be honest with you from a bandwidth perspective. I feel like I'm disappointing you because you keep reaching out and I just don't have right now the ability to meet the needs that I think you have.

And so while, you know, if they have a problem with that and it might hurt, of course it's gonna, it probably, of course it's gonna hurt, you know, if they keep wanting, but you can't workshop their own deal. You can only workshop your deal. I have an absurd story. Okay, please share.

When I was about 21, I came home after working an eight-hour shift on my feet, like so exhausted from cocktailing. Right. And I walk into my room and on my bed is like, not even fucking joking you, like a burnt edges of a paper, like the edges were burnt. Okay. And on it, it says, congratulations, you lost a friend.

Okay. And the reason I'm bringing this up, I'll tell you in a second. So someone had went in my room and wrote this little note, congratulations, you lost a friend. And the discrepancy was over the fact that I could not go to their birthday party in Vegas because I had to work to make money

to pay for college. Right. So that's absurd. That's absurd land. Like, let alone like any real, if someone's burning the edges. Yeah, I'm like the fire element. The fire element was a lot.

It was, it was a- They're going to sit there with the candle and then blow it out. I mean, they should have just put the message in the bottle and threw it in the ocean. No, but, but my, my question for you is when it's so absurd and you can't even reason. Right.

Then you don't need to. And you can't even explain. And it's just, it's not, it's in cuckoo land. What would, what do you do? I think this is a perfect segue in How to Break Up with a Friend. Right. To slowly back away with someone who's just in crazy land. If someone's burning the edges and breaking my room, I'm calling the fucking police.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I have in here, okay, so there's, you know, the book's called How to Break Up With Your Friend. And there's 10 chapters and there's only one on how to break up with your friend. But within that one chapter, I really go through like all of the different possible scenarios. And so look, in a perfect world, in a perfect relationship that has just run its course and now it's time to

exit, I would say, you know, I would want to have a conversation with this person, or at least on the phone, I would like to have, you know, some back and forth. But the problem is with that, and that's the way you want to lead. If you can do that, that's, I think, the highest respect. It's the hardest thing to do, but I think it's the most valiant, okay? But the idea is not just about you showing up in a respectful manner. To really communicate your message, you have to understand, will the way I'm delivering this message be received by the other person? Because the idea is that they get why it is that you are separating. Now, if the person is highly defensive or highly emotional, you're not going to probably want to have that in-person or even on the phone talk because it'll feel like a confrontation when

it's not a confrontation. You're just sharing the way you feel, right? But some people just can't take that. So in that case, better an email where you can really put all your thoughts on paper. They can read it and then have their big emotional reaction, step away, think about it, and then decide how to react or respond. In the situation you're talking about, this is not something that needs to be talked about.

This is crazy behavior and you need to stop engaging with it. And that's what I would say. And then-'s like every single one of your ex-girlfriends. Here's a hot tip, everyone. Don't burn the edges and leave a paper that says, congratulations, you lost a friend when you're breaking up with a friend. Exactly. This is a fire hazard. You call it a fire hazard. No, exactly. It's so ominous. And I just remember my bedding was like really pink at the time. And like the ash was like on my pink bedding.

And I was like, oh, this is ruining my aesthetic. You know what? In practice though, and you know, I've been running businesses for, you know, 15 years now. So unfortunately, sometimes when you do that, you have to part ways with people, both in partnerships and, you know, maybe people that are working with you for you, however. And there's some professional development that takes place in order to be able to do that because it's never easy. It's never comfortable. You never really like it. And then previously, obviously, dating prior to my wife, you learn how to break up with people. But I think people really-

How did you break up with people prior to me? Now that I'm thinking, I think individuals, and I've been guilty of this before, really struggle in intimate relationships or friendship relationships on that. How do you actually do that departure, right? Like I have for sure not handled that well in the past with friends or indefinitely with women, hopefully better now. But I think it's because it's people get so uncomfortable

and it's such a hard conversation that they kind of sometimes take a easier route out with much greater consequences. It's like firing someone. Yeah. Yeah. The thing is, yeah, these are all hard conversations to have, right?

But the problem is, or the difference is, you're not going to keep working with somebody that needs to be fired, not for very long. And you're not going to keep dating somebody, hopefully. Most people are not going to keep dating somebody just because they don't want to break up with them.'ll talk themselves into staying for other reasons but if they don't want to be with the person they will find a way to get out of it the difference with friendships is we just kind of go okay i just won't deal with this yes and the problem is we think that that is

like somehow dealing with it it's not what happened is you've got all this stuff subconsciously percolating that you because you haven't dealt with something so it's not. What happened is you've got all this stuff subconsciously percolating that you, cause you haven't dealt with something. So it's like leaving- Well, it's selfish in a way, right? Because it's- Absolutely. You're protecting your feelings at the expense of somebody else's confusion or- Exactly.

I'll pick on myself. Maybe in the past, if I broke up with somebody I was dating, I didn't do it in the best way and kind of just, there's no real reason or closure. And then the person's sitting there like, what the hell just happened? Totally. And when I interviewed so many women for this book,

and many of them had been ghosted in certain circumstances, times in their lives. And it's crazy. These are very successful, strong, funny women. And you talk to them and they start talking about this. And all of a sudden, it's like they're back there. And it's like, and I don't know what happened. And then all of a sudden, they're getting into the details. And it's like, it literally just happened two seconds ago. And it's like, because there's no closure there.

Right. And so, and all of them that I talked to were like, well, it's actually such a good thing that I didn't end up being friends with this person anymore, but here we go. And so the funny thing is, is that we think that the person that's doing the breaking up or the ghosting is like out there free in the world. And probably they are relative to the other person, but you've got your burning energy, you just don't know it because you have not closed the lid on it.

Yep. I have a question for you and I think you're the perfect person to answer this. You have been massively successful. Leaf TV was huge. You've written two books. I mean, you're a successful woman. How do you deal with sharing the news of all of these massively successful endeavors that you've

accomplished with your friends? And what has been maybe different scenarios, like someone who's been really happy for you versus not so much. It's so funny. Even with this book, I find that in friendship that there are so many people, I feel lucky that there are many people I can go to when I'm feeling not great or I have bad news, and they're like, oh, tell me about it. But it is really interesting to watch when you're sharing good news, especially professional good news, that it's really worth taking a look at that too, because a friend shouldn't just be showing up for you in your time of need. They should also be showing up to help support and celebrate your successes. And even with this book, it's crazy. I've given this to some really good friends and this kind of sounds trivial or whatever, but a couple of them have not even shared it on Instagram.

And I texted one and I was like, hey, I just want to make sure you got the book. And of course, I know I did because I handed it to them. And they're like, yeah, I just haven't finished reading it yet. And I was like, it's not a book review. I'm just asking you to show support. Throw a picture up and say congratulations. And so it's so interesting to watch the success dynamic. It's one of the trickier things to navigate. That's another thing with men and women. I'm bringing this up. It's a different thing. I think it happens with men too. I don't want to be, I think there's a certain type of man and woman and person. Right.

Yes, maybe it's a type of person. There's that old quote, it's like everybody's happy for you until you start doing better than them. Right. I think talking about friends that maybe you go like share bad news with, sometimes like a red flag to me,

and this is just personally sometimes what I've done in my own life, like kind of watching the reaction when you share news, like sad news, bad news, what you think is your friend. If there's any kind of like hint of delight or happiness. I know. Then it's like that is-

It's so subtle, but it's there. My closest friends, when I share I'm in a bad place or bad news, like they feel the same way with me, right? They're like they don't. And then at the same time, like those friends, when I share good news, like they're happy and excited with me, right? And hopefully I'm bringing that to the relationship as well.

But I think this is another form of toxic friendships. Absolutely. Like you share bad news and it's almost like people are- Lean into it. Yes. They lean into the bad news

or they keep you there. Right. They don't help you get out of it. Totally, exactly. And that's all they want to talk about. And they're kind of, and again, that's like, that is definitely something

you want to pay attention because that can keep you stuck in whatever you're going through. It's so subtle, but if you're not paying attention, you can find yourself in these relationships where people are actually not only not celebrating good things, but kind of celebrating when something bad happens to you. I think an indicator is how much time in the friendship people spend there.

So say you share bad news and people want to spend a lot of time talking about that bad news. Absolutely. As opposed to how to get out of it. Yes. And how to move through it. And same thing if you share good news

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I also think too, there's something to be said about intuition. Totally. And like feel, like sometimes you just, there's an energy that's underlying that you can feel. Right. And I think that's probably one of the most important things. And I spent a lot of time, especially in the first book, but I definitely talk about in the second book, this idea that we're living in a time of such chaos, mental chaos. And so it is imperative for us to find 15 to 20 minutes a day. It is your responsibility to find 15 to 20 minutes a day every day where you can clear your mind. So whether that's meditation, going for a walk

device-free, taking a bath device-free, whatever it is, because without the ability to step away from the chaos, it's so hard to feel that intuition. It's so hard to hear that inner voice. It's always there. It's just really hard to see when you don't take the time to step away from all of the madness that is our modern life. Can we take, before we jump too far, a tangent and talk about childhood friends versus adult friends? And the reason I want to spend time here is I think what I would say childhood friends, like you spend the most time with a certain group of people and maybe like school settings, you know, you go through all these years, but they're also kind of friends by default,

right? Sure. You're just put in the same room and say, choose as opposed to, yeah. And then maybe 20 years later, it's like, well, that's my friend from first grade or third grade or high school or middle school. And so like you hang on to these friends that maybe if you had the choice as an adult, you wouldn't necessarily be in or whatever. And then on the flip side of that is, I think many adults struggle finding true adult friends, right?

So like you hang on to all these old childhood friends. That don't have space. Yes. And you struggle to meet the new adult friends. I think all of us included, included had that struggle at times. I wonder if you think about that. Yeah. So the second chapter of this book is called First Friendships.

And it's all about looking into number one, who were your first friends? How did you socialize with them? How did your parents socialize? What cues did you take from your parents? If your parents were super social or, you know, homebodies or whatever. And then also looking at how many of those friendships are just kind of legacy friendships and you've just pulled along for the ride without much thought because it is so important. You have again, math, you have to free up space for the five or six really good friends in your life. Otherwise, you don't have enough bandwidth. And so it comes right back down

to the idea of the self-audit. And you said something that I actually wanted to address earlier. You said 15 years ago, you did kind of an audit and looked at your life and all of the choices and stuff like that. And I think that is absolutely amazing. But it's so important to do that like once a year, right? Because I say this in the first book, like, and this is talking more about career, but we kind of decide what we want to be traditionally when you go to university, right? And it's like, I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be whatever you're going to be.

I thought I was going to be a lawyer. And then we never really check back on that. And all of a sudden at 40, we're having like a midlife crisis. Why? And I think it's so often we're being driven by like the voice of an 18 year old. And like right now, if you had some crisis, would you be like, I need to find an 18 year old to understand what their advice would be? Absolutely not. You'd be like, I need to sign a contemporary or somebody that's wiser and lived more than me, right? And yet we're still being driven by things that we've decided so long ago.

And often those decisions are not necessarily our own, right? Like we have so many voices of other people, what we should do and what we should be and how we should operate in our life. So it's super important to constantly be checking in and say, okay, where am I now? And where do I want to go? Where am I now? And where do I want to go? And so that really applies with the friendships. Like just because I was friends with somebody in grade six, well, I really

had very few options. I was put in a room, there's 30 kids in my class and I had to find the ones that were most like me. So it's again, a little bit, it's great because you learn about socialization and how to get along and all of that stuff. But are these the people you would necessarily choose? And not just like you, but in the same, like, and I would say, you know, like you go into different phases as you become an adult. Some people get married earlier. Some people stay single longer. Some people have children earlier. Some people wait till later. So like some people, you know, their careers hit a different phase at a different space. But when you're in, you know, let's call it kindergarten

through high school, you're all kind of in the same place at the same time at the same pace. And so I think that's also tough where I've had friends where I started working early right out of school and I've had other friends that took more time in school. I was the first of our friends to get married, probably the first of our friends to have children. And that dynamic shifts.

And it's not that I don't love a lot of these people that I've knew before, but just we go into different phase of our friends to have children. Right. And that dynamic shifts. Yes, totally. And it's not that I don't love a lot of these people that I've knew before, but just we go into different phases of our lives. But I think sometimes early friends expect you to always be in the same phase as they are. What I like to say- And we do that too, guiltily. Of course.

Yeah, of course. And look, there is a role for the nostalgic friend. These are people that have seen you. If this relationship is still very valuable, and it can be because these are people that if you do have a connection with them and they have seen you from like 11 years old to now, they've witnessed you in a way that Lauren will never witness you, you know, and she'll see different things, but they have seen you from, you know, coming into yourself, which is like unbelievable. And that's a profound understanding of who you

are, right? If you're really connected. So there's definitely a place for the nostalgic friend, but just time, just the length of time that you've known somebody is not enough, right? I like to say that all of those people that you meet along the way until you kind of graduate from high school were friends. I think they were friends to teach you for you to learn who you really are so that then you can go out and make choices with who you're going to be friends with. And you may choose some of those people, but it's not enough to say like, we were friends in high school. A lot of those people, relationships, I think were designed to bring different parts out of you. And then for you to understand what you want moving forward, right? Which may seem cold, but I do think that that's

like very valuable purpose, but it doesn't mean that you've signed up for life with them. I am a nostalgic friend to Michael. I am a nostalgic wife. I've known him since he was 12. There you go. So you brought your nostalgic friend along. Let me do a self-audit. I also want to say something that I think is so important. So I know myself in the sense that I need a lot of time to recharge alone. Right. And a big part of me being a friend to myself

is like honoring that space and inner peace and being able to read with my books and whatever. My husband is even gnarlier than I am where he loves solitude. So as his friend, not as his wife, as his friend, and I talked to a lot of women about this and I don't ever think if you and I have talked about this, I have a finesse with him where I know when it's time for me to exit stage left

and give him space to read or play video games or meditate or just be alone. I know when to step back and pull back. And I think that that's a thing that should be important to all of us is how to be a friend too, is to know when to ebb and flow. And when you ask someone to go to happy hour and they're planning the next happy hour while you're at happy hour. That is literally the worst. I'm just going to give a PSA. If I am at happy hour with you and we are hanging out and having fun and you are planning the next time that we are going to hang out together, I got to bow out. It's nothing against you. It's, it's, I just, we're, we're literally together right now. Yep. So I think that it's also important

to know as a friend how to finesse the other friend. Does that make sense? No, totally. And I talk a lot about the traits of a good friendship, but then also how you can do it better. And the first thing,

one of the key things to that is being able to show up and really see the other person and really understand where they're coming from, right? And what an amazing thing to be seen and in the way that you're describing in this relationship, because that is friendship. It's not just like talking and talking. It's actually just listening and paying attention to nonverbal cues too. Like it's not like

you're sitting with him and he goes, okay, I need space. You're reading it. It's a nonverbal cue. Now it's my time to get up. This is exactly where you want to be in any kind of thriving relationship. And you can only get there by really paying attention, active listening, and investing and understanding who the other person really is

and what their needs are. Totally agree with you. The other day, you were having a nervous breakdown. You're making me sound like a psychopath. You weren't burning. You weren't burning. Yeah, he's burning. You didn't even know

you were having a nervous breakdown. It was me that burned the level. You probably did. You were having a nervous breakdown, but you didn't know you were having a nervous breakdown. And so, no, no, no. So what I did as your wife,

because I know you so well, is I thought to myself, okay, I need to get everyone out of the house. That includes the dogs. That includes getting the baby with the nanny, getting myself out. I sound like a real nutcase right now. No, no, I needed,

I knew that I needed to give you some air to think. And so I got everyone out of the house for two hours. And when I came back, it was a whole different energy. And it was just that two hours. Well, then I back, it was a whole different energy. And it was just that two hours. Well, then I missed you guys after about like hour and a half. Yeah. Then you started texting, where are you? You know, I think to round it out on a positive note, that kind of that self audit and assessment that I did on myself was, she is right. I am somebody that

likes a lot of solitude. I just, you know, I grew up reading a lot, just being kind of like in my own head, like was always the student that struggled, but like was just in my own head. And I liked that space. Like I like to just be introspective and think and read and kind of be alone sometimes. And I realized- It's called cerebral. In a lot of my friendships, I wasn't showing up. But when I say friendships, I mean my true friendships, the ones that are like, like you said, the ride or die. I wasn't showing up the way I wanted to because I had all of these random friendships. Right.

It's like one day I'm here and I wasn't really there for the people that I wanted to be there for. And so I was like, okay, if I'm really going to be a true friend to these handful, like it's just a handful of people. It's a very small group at this point.

A lot of acquaintances, but tight, tight friends. That's where you want to be. Yes. I was like, I need to kind of change the way that I've structured what I call friendship. Because if not, I'm just having all these kind of like fluffy relationships.

That take energy and they don't give. Yeah. And I know that like there's certain, like I'm not the guy that's going to be invited to every party or every wedding or every this or that. But with my true friendships, when shit hits the fan, like I'm either calling them or they're calling me. And there's like, and there's an understanding that there's a safe space to do it and that I'm reliable, right?

Exactly. And I think if more people thought about friendships in that way, they would have much more successful friendships. Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly the way you need to be. You need to be intentional. You need to make choices.

You need to understand where you're coming from and then communicate that. And not just in words, but in actions and cultivate a you know, cultivate a handful of meaningful connections because less is way more. Yeah, I agree. Who needs this book?

Well, I think that everybody. Who doesn't need this book? Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, I just think as I kind of said at the top, this category I think has, you know, I just think, as I kind of said at the top, this category, I think, has received so little attention. And it's such an untapped source of power and support. And as I said kind of at the beginning, I think we need this now more than ever coming out of this like never-ending crazy time. And so we need to look for places that can really help lift us up and us them up. And I think

this is a great place to start. And because there is no real language out there about getting into new friendships or getting out of old ones, it's a great kind of starter for the conversation and for just getting people talking about friendship norms and what to expect and what feels good and works. How to break up with your friends, finding meaning, connection, and boundaries in modern friendships by Erin Falconer. Where can you find your book, your Instagram, pimp yourself out?

You can find my book anywhere. You kind of buy books, Amazon, Barnes & Noble, indie books. And you can find me on social at Erin Falconer or at Pick the Brain. Thanks for coming on. You're so right about this subject. I was thinking as you're talking, we've done 450 of these episodes over a course of six years in March. I think this is the first time we've talked about this subject. So just to show cases. It's a very niche, unique subject, but that everyone needs, if that makes sense. I agree. We talked about everything on the subject, but like 450 times doing this and still like, this is kind of the first time

we've talked about this topic. Right, can we give away a signed copy of the book? Yes, and I actually want to give whatever, if there's a winner, I want to give the winner and plus she can send or he can send an address for a friend and could send one to whoever the friend. Is this a weird book to send to your friend though? No, it's not because there's just one chapter

that's about breaking up. No, it's a good conversation starter. I'm going to burn the edges and leave this on my old friend's bed. Okay, a signed copy from Aaron to you and a friend. All you have to do is follow Aaron on Instagram and tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest post at Lauren Bostic.

Thank you for coming on, Aaron. Thank you guys. That was great. Do you want to win a copy of Aaron's book, How to Break Up with Your Friends? I have one. I think you guys will love it. All you have to do is tell us

who you want to hear next on the Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic and make sure you're following at Aaron Falconer on Instagram. See you next time. Cheers. This episode was brought to you by Whoop. This is

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