The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - How To Build Secure, Healthy Relationships: Master Detachment, Set Better Boundaries & Stop Seeking Validation Ft. Margarita Nazarenko

Episode Date: October 5, 2026

#1,012: Join us as we sit down with Margarita Nazarenko – globally recognised voice in feminine psychology, confidence, and identity. Margarita has built a large audience around her unfiltered takes on womanhood, dating, personal growth, and building a life on your own terms. In this episode, Margarita breaks down why seeking validation from a partner can quietly change the way you show up in a relationship — and how learning to validate yourself can shift everything. Margarita gets candid about anxious attachment, people-pleasing, relationship adrenaline, and the childhood patterns that can influence who we become in love. She shares the counterintuitive ways to handle conflict, boundaries, communication, and disrespect without chasing, or giving away your power. She also reveals the mindset shift that changed the way she approached relationships and ultimately helped her create the life and marriage she wanted.   For Detailed Show Notes visit TheBossticks.com   To connect with Margarita Nazarenko click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   To learn more about Margarita Nazarenko visit https://www.margaritanazarenko.com. To become the woman who doesn't chase visit https://www.margaritanazarenko.com/theunbotheredwoman. To learn about Unbothered visit http://amzn.to/4zfzbMs.    This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential  Reduce puffiness and boost radiance with The Skinny Confidential Mint Roller, now available at http://shopskinnyconfidential.com.    This episode is sponsored by Neurogum For a limited time, you can get 20% off your first order at http://neurogum.com by using code SKINNY. You can also find Neuro at CVS, Walmart and Amazon.   This episode is sponsored by Tonies Toys Visit http://tonies.com to learn all about Toniebox Lite.   This episode is sponsored by Caldera + Lab Go to http://calderalab.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY for 20% off your first order.   This episode is sponsored by Ritual Don't settle for less than evidence-based support. Save 25% on your first month and get a free gift with any starter set now, at http://Ritual.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Sam Edelman Visit us at http://samedelman.com to explore everything you need for Fall and get 15% off with code SKINNY15. Produced by Dear Media

Welcome to the Bostics, starring Lauren Bostic and Michael Bostick. Together, they are the Bostics. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of The Bostics. Today we're sitting down with Margarita Nezarenko, who is an author, creator, and powerful voice in the conversation around self-worth, relationships, femininity, and personal power. Her new book, Unbothered, The Art of Letting Go to Find Yourself, tackle something many of us struggle with, which is knowing when to stop chasing, fixing, explaining, and trying to control was never ours to control.

Some of the other themes we talk about in this episode are detachment, alignment practices, release and control, setting boundaries, relationship patterns, acceptance, energy exchange, and nervous system regulation, which is important for everybody. We really enjoyed this conversation with Margarita. With that, Margarita, welcome to the Bostics. Listen, I was on TikTok. I'm scrolling TikTok and I see your face, which is beautiful. Go watch YouTube.

Stop. And you pop up, you have the most gorgeous accent, and you were speaking my language and the thing you were saying were exactly how I got my husband. Girl. And I thought, oh my God, she's telling all my secrets to the world. Can I say something to you? Do you remember, I've listened to your podcast for a little bit. Do you remember the poodle reference?

You would like act like a poodle and every time you mention it, I'm like, develop the thought. Come on, Lauren, you're like, you know, and you just keep going. It's the poodle. Unbothered is the poodle. What is the poodle? What is the poodle? You tell me. That's too, that's a little tease.

I'm about content marketing for that. A poodle is, to me, aloof. It's unbothered as your book. Yeah. And it could take it or leave it. It could take it or leave it because it cares about its own internal experience more than managing the experience of other people. A lot of people, a lot of women, want the guy to be okay.

What is he thinking? Is he, you know, what is he feeling? Does he like me enough? Does it matter? Does it matter? Do you like him? You see what I'm saying? Why do you think that that's the,

the first go to for a lot of women, meaning like managing what the guy thinks of them. Because we are raised and you'll see it from your daughter. We go to school. We get good grades. You know, if you communicate well, if you're a good listener, if you do things well, you can get a dream job, you can achieve at work. It's all masculine energy, right? You go forward. You can do the thing. And then we take that and we're like, great, I'm really good at stuff. And you're like, I'll apply that to relationships. And you use the same energy on men. And they're like, whoa, stop micromanaging me. Stop telling me what to do.

You're taking the one thing that men really value and that's freedom. The reason men like a poodle is because they like the freedom to choose the poodle, not someone who's going to tell them, you have to like me, and this is how you have to like me, and this is how you have to love me. I just saw you nod. Oh, Michael's freaking out right now. He's freaking out and I'm going to say that. I'm going to be careful on this episode.

You don't because Michael often says, I know, you know, men and women, they're kind of the same. I've got to be careful. Don't be careful. They're different. No, I don't say they're the same. I say they're different and that's why you're going to be careful saying that. But it's true. I mean, like, I have a lot of female friends and I have a lot of male friends and the conversations we have about relationships are very different. And anyone that says,

any guy that says different is lying to you. They're lying. I say that. And they're like, how could you say that? I just want to be myself. I just want to be honest. I just want to express to him how this relationship is going to go. And I'm like, do you want him? Do you want to win? Or do you want to be right? Because I want to win. It's a strategy. Like, you want the person. you want and you of course want to be yourself, but you have to mitigate yourself. Like we always say, I just want to be myself. What does that even mean? Yourself is a series of reactions you've learned to have since you were a child, which you think will give you a result that you want. I won't get so deep in the weeds and relationships, but I think that some people should not

be themselves. Correct. And because it's not working for them. It didn't work for me when I was younger. I was such a desperado. Like looking back, I think we all are maybe in our 20s. And then when I looked at the series of things I did, I was like, hmm, that's not getting. That's not getting. me the love or attention or whatever I want, but this will, and now that feels nice. Now I'm getting the love and attention I want. Great. You know, maybe this is the wrong example, but at one point the Grinch was being himself. And nobody liked the Grinch. And so he had to change himself. He had to open his heart and he had to go and give those small children the presence back. Exactly. It's a, it's a joke. But the point is that like, I don't know, I think like,

my personal belief system is like everything is my fault. Everything in a business is my fault. everything in relationship, everything in parenting. And so if you take that perspective, then when things are not going the way you want them in life, then what you have to do first is you have to change what you are doing or who you are. And that's empowering. I got asked on a podcast in LA, like, but women might find your message, you know, upsetting. And they might get a bit upset. And I'm like, well, let them be upset.

Like, it's okay. Because I want them to win again, not feel nice. And if everything's my fault, then I've got the power to change it. And if nothing's my fault, then we're just sitting here crying or what are we doing? Kumbaya? What do you think makes a desperate? It is thinking that you can control another person over controlling your own environment. It's trying to water their garden as opposed to watering your own.

It's thinking, okay, so if they feel a certain way, I've got to fix it or change it or make them perceive me in whatever way that I want them to see me, as opposed to being like Simon Cowell, you are the American Idol judge. You've got to be the one saying, do I like them enough for them to be in my life? Not in a horrible way, but you've just got to be like, is he an. enough for me? Do I like him? Do I like the way he acts? Is this a person that I really want to be with? A lot of women are desperate just to impress the guy. It doesn't matter what he's like. As long as he likes her, she feels like she's winning. I also think that I look at myself as a

mixed berry pie. And when someone gets a piece of my pie, that doesn't mean they get access to the whole pie. You have to do a lot of work to try all my different kind of berries. Like, just because I'm dating you doesn't mean you get access to every little bit of my energy. Like, It's going to take a while for you to try the whole pie. It might take years. You still might be trying the pie. You might not even know what the pie tastes like. He's like, too much of the pie.

But I'm just saying like I think that there's this theory like you guys are talking about being yourself. I think that you can be yourself but you don't need to give your whole self. What is the self? There's an evolving self as well. So if you're watering your own garden and you're developing yourself and you're interested in your own life and you're interested in curating your life, right? then that person has something to be interested in. If you're a shadow of another person following what they want to do, being so interested in them,

and that's a place that women fall into a lot in their early 20s. You know, he likes a hobby. She follows him. He speaks in a certain way. She thinks it's great. She likes everything he likes. But what is the end result? Who is he going to like and return?

Just like a sidekick? When you say this, why do you think you get pushback? Because is it projection from people doing what you're saying? I get either extreme like relief that there's a solution because you know what it's it's it's a horrible feeling to feel anxiously attached to someone to have anxiety and feel like they hold your worth is a really shitty place to be in to feel like you can't feel good on a certain day if clive doesn't like you or if gerald isn't you know replying to you as a shitty place to be in because your mood depends on their validation of you but if you validate yourself it is both heavy in responsibility

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And with the holidays coming up, this is a perfect time to get any man in your life, whether it's your boyfriend, your husband, your father, your brother, your uncle, whoever it is, into skin care. You can explain to them the importance and you can give them this masculine skincare line that no man is going to feel overwhelmed by. If you're looking for a gift to actually use every single day, this is it. Go to caldera lab.com slash skinny and use code skinny for 20% off your first order. How did you discover this theory? I discovered it because again, and you know what, I notice a thing, and this is a bit of a derailment,

but you'll see where I'm going. I love a derail. Women who have a natural comment. A secure attachment is what it's called in psychology. Have fathers who were either devoted to them, loved them, or were around? I presume yours was. All three. Yeah.

See? And you have this quiet confidence and I noticed it with girls at school. Mine was not around. I don't give that energy maybe any more. But I noticed that dads who were maybe absent at work or didn't give that much investment or time. Mine was around until I was like five and then my parents divorced and I did not see him ever since, they start to have an energy to them, and I know you believe in energetics, of like, trying to see into men and trying to see if they're good enough and trying to measure

themselves through the value of that lens because they never got it from their father. Right? Makes a lot of sense. Yeah. You don't have that because you already got that validation from him, so you don't need to seek it in a man in another way. So a lot of women are having that experience. Even when their dad was there, maybe he was busy at work, maybe he never saw them or validated

what they wanted to do with their life, never thought they were interesting or amazing or even pretty, like let's not call little little girls pretty is the thing, but I think fathers should because I want to be told them pretty all day long. I call my daughter she's pretty all the time. Exactly. I would never listen to advice that's not to say

that. But the new rhetoric is just to say she's smart and not pretty, but some other guys know she's smart too. Exactly. Tell her everything. Tell her all of it. Because then she won't be anxiously attached to a man trying to get that validation. Anyway, I grew up like that. My mom was a single mom. I went to school, I got boyfriends, and I was always like that kind of like seeking into them energy. And the more I try to make people happy, and it was with friendships as well sometimes, but mainly

with boyfriends, the more off me they became. So the more I tried, the harder it was for them to be interested in me. I was like, what is going on here? Like I'm being nice. I'm being funny. I'm being accommodating. Like if you wanted to go to a certain restaurant, sure, if he wants a certain cuisine, like sushi, whatever. Sure. If he stands me up, oh, I've got to be understanding. And then it got worse and worse and worse and worse. Until it clicked to me that I think it got so bad that I think my boyfriend was actively cheating on me. He went to a bar somewhere with a people, with a girl he was cheating on me with and other people. And I just turned up to be like there along for the ride, just to like see what he was doing and, you know, make sure that I could still be there around him.

I don't know what I was doing. It was so long ago. I can hardly remember. But I started to read about attachment, secure attachment, anxious attachment, which was me, just, I just want to be around to be accepted and that will make me feel better. And then there's avoidant, which is a lot of men. You know, women talk about men being avoidant in terms of they're like too busy, they don't reply, they don't text back. That is the opposite of the spectrum of anxious.

So there's secure people, which is kind of like you guys, like you, if you're happy with someone, you're happy. And if someone does something bad to you, you don't want to be around them. That's normal, normal reaction. And the other half is either anxious like I was or avoidant. And they often go together a lot because it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. The anxious person chases. You're saying the anxious person ends up being with the avoidant person and they're both not matched for each other.

Well, what they do is it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. An anxious person feels I'm always going to be left and abandoned. An avoidant person delivers that to them. And an avoidant person usually comes from a background where their parents always told them what to do, always made them, you know, know, like engulf them. It's like a feeling of being monitored, constantly made to study a lot or completely abandoned. So they go, do you know what? I've just got my own back. I don't really need anyone else. And everyone who's going to try and come for my energy is actually going to derail me from my life and I don't want that. And here is this anxious person. Me, for example, in the past,

hello, be my friend, like do this. And they're like, whoa. And so I'm chasing. That person is avoiding and we're just doing this dance. And I say to women all the time, it's up to, and this is controversial, it's up to the anxious person to stop that interaction. The avoidant person is not in that much pain for them to change. Why? Because they've found a solution. To self-soothe by themselves. To self-sooth by themselves. It's through hobbies, through work, through whatever. They might have come through from the same trauma. For example, not enough parental love, like something happened. And the anxious person decided, I will try and get it by being pleasing, by being there, by being open and the avoidance said, do you know what, I don't need anyone. I got my own back.

That's not as painful. And you're saying that this also applies to friendships. Correct. Does this also, though, is a common thread through this is there's an individual that believes they can change another individual to their needs. Yeah. But that's, and so like, when does that ever work? The underlying thing of being so anxiously attached is it's not an innocent thing to be. It's actually a codependent thing to be and it's a manipulative thing to be because all I'm doing, I'm saying me in the past, is trying to see into you and manipulate myself in order to get you to like me. So it's selfish about it?

It's selfish. Whoa. Yeah. No one's ever explained it to me like that. I knew all this time, all those girls that would be alone were so fucking selfish. They were so needy with me, Carson. Because you know what they say to you, Michael? And I always thought that it was me, but it's because they're a bunch of selfish girls.

Selfish bitches. Do you know what they say to you at the end is they do a lot for you. They'll do a lot for you these types of people and in friendships. And then they'll say lines like, I wasted my best years on you. Who asked you? I actually have heard that before. See? Even though we were like...

No, but women say that. Men don't say that. Men don't say, I wasted my best years because men don't waste best years on people. They just do what they want to do. This whole rhetoric of like, I'm going to do enough for you in a manipulation in order for you to give back. That's not kindness. That's an exchange. And they get mad.

It's a way to make people feel poorly about themselves as well. Correct. And now I've done so much for you. I've been there for you and in friendships too, and I've gone out of my way and I've, you know, stayed up at night to help you and wow, you're acting like this now. But nobody asked you. Nobody asked you. You manipulative little true.

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slash skinny. That's 25% off new starter sets at ritual.com slash skinny. This is what I find so interesting about you that I'm so intrigued with. You had the self-awareness to catch yourself in the anxious attachment and actually not only bring yourself out of it, but then teach other women. I'm logical. I saw that I was acting in a way that didn't get me the result I wanted. And it wasn't natural to me. I am not a desperate chasing person. I just decided somewhere in my childhood that in order to get people's attention, I needed to just, you know, be there and, you know, act people pleasing. And I thought for a minute and I was like, wait a minute, what if I act, how secure people act? because when they get disrespected, they go, oh, okay, I don't want to be around that energy.

When their boyfriend goes out to the bar with a girl they might be dating outside of you, they go, I wouldn't even speak to that guy anymore now. You know what I mean? And I thought, okay, what if I act secure, would it get me the results I want? And it's really hard when you're anxious to try a different way of being. So what did you do? What were the steps? And was there an epiphany of something that happened where you're like, you got to make a switch?

Oh, that kind of like following him around, being like, like, hey, why don't you want to be with me anymore? We sat at a bar. I tried to sit next to him. He, like, moved away. And I was like, oh, what's going on? To my friends was going on. And I saw, like, pity in their eyes, you know? Like, I was just, like, a chasing type of person. And people go through this a lot in their 20s and teens. And sometimes people just don't get out of it.

They act in a different way, but they don't change their mindset. Or their identity. And Michael just asked, yes. Impressive. I actually, you know, when you asked me, what was I like? It's hard to remember because it. It's almost like I code switched my realities. It's really, really strange because I can't.

That's possible to do. I know. She did it. It's like the fiber of me changed. Even if you told me right now, my husband, who's with me here with my kids, is cheating on me actively right now, I'd be like, whatever. Anyway, let me finish this podcast. I just don't care.

I don't know why. Like, I don't. So now when women write to me in DMs, like, don't cheat on me, babe. But anyway, like, when people write to me in DMs, like, I'm so worried. You know, he's not replied to me. I'm just like, why would you even want to be with him? Well, my question is always, if I'm in a relationship with them and they don't take the time to go out of their way, to call, to text, whatever, I don't want to be with someone that can't make me a priority. You are no longer interested, but those type of women who are anxious, they go, he doesn't want to be with me or make time.

That means I'm not good enough because they're seeing themselves through the lens of his validation. You validate yourself. But there's a psychological thing, too. I'll try to relate this to something more that maybe won't upset people as much. I let them be upset, Michael. If you do, if you're trying to do a business deal, let's say you're trying to raise money for your company

and you run around and you get a bunch of different bidders and you want to go with one in that one person know there's four other people that want to bid in the company. That one person's going to want the company more. If you have the energy where it's like you only get one bitter and your whole thing is like, I'm so, like, it's only you. It's all about you. I need to get you, like, I need you so bad. I like, that one bitter is immediately going to start to say, wait a minute, what am I missing that everybody else saw? Why do, why does nobody else want this?

And why is this person so desperate to just do this deal with just me? I said that on one of my TikToks or reels or whatever it was, that if you're so desperate for a guy, he's going to think, what am I missing? He's going to start to think what are, right? Why do all the other guys not see this greatness that this person? And you know how upset the women were? They were like, well, if that's how he sees me. I don't even want him. That's psychology. But it's, but it's human nature. Right. By the way, like, same with girls. Like if you're like, if, same thing, if you have a girl in the same exact position as a guy, there's this, you're going to start to be turned off by like, wait a minute, there's just this one. You're thinking, what am I missing? Imagine you walk past

Almez and they've got a burken. They're like, hi, who wants to come in? Anybody want to come in? Anybody want to come in? Get the burkin, get the burkin. You'd be like, is that a burken? Is it a fake? You say, what's wrong with it? What's happening here? Why am I being like, bamboos? Like, something's happening. that's off. Nobody likes to feel. I know it's like it sounds like a strange thing. You want to be somebody, you want to be a like an important thing to somebody, but you don't want to be the only thing to somebody. But also men's biggest values, I don't know if you'll agree, is freedom to choose and and freedom to be themselves and a freedom to choose. That's throughout

psychology. That's the thing. People are like, oh yeah, but I don't get it. It's, it's, it's, they want to be able to choose you and not be forced to be with you, not be guilted into it. that's why it doesn't work on women say, I've been so good to you and all these things. It doesn't work in their psychology. Guilt works on women. It works on us. And I don't think that you want to play like toxic games,

but there is something sexy about the pursuit. Correct. So I played toxic games. No, meaning like you don't want to be like, well, that was, you don't want to be like, well, that was easy. No, why not? You want to meet a girl in a bar one night and do whatever and then. Because it also codes to you that she'll be.

easy that way for a lot of people. Yes. You want someone to say. And again, I'm not shaming anybody for that. Like we, you know. But it's okay to shame them, Michael, if they make that decision and then they're upset about it. Yeah. But to the point.

Like, I think everybody, and again, you don't want to be the guy that's like, wait a minute. Why was that so easy? Yeah. Why did that require no effort? Something's off. And if it requires no effort and it's always there and it's always available to me. Yeah. And that means there's other things I can also go look for as well because that's a

always going to be there easy. And then that person feels left out. How do you validate yourself now? How can someone who's listening validate themselves? It's very simple because it's kind of like how you develop confidence. When people don't see value in themselves and they don't validate themselves, just because they haven't put effort into themselves. It could be as stupid as doing a face mask or something like that. Not that's stupid, but do you know what I mean? Something is benign. For example, if you gave all of your attention effort and focused onto Michael, right? And he doesn't validate you back, you're saying that he's important and giving him all that validation, because you're giving him time, you're giving him all your free time, you're canceling your day,

everything. You need to treat yourself like the person that you love. You need to treat yourself like your best friend or like your pet or like, you know, people give medication to their pets that their pets are meant to have way more than they do it for themselves. Wait. Say you know. Say this again. People give medication to their pets. If someone has prescribed medication, say me or my pet, my likelihood to give it to my pet on time every day is way higher than to do it for myself. You need to start treating yourself like the pet that you love because you're going to prove to yourself neurologically that you're worth something. Stop abandoning yourself. It could be little things that you can serve. Everything. The way that you would treat, you know, those anxious women,

it's hard for you to imagine because you're secure, right? Yes, but I do, I do want to say I empathize. Yeah. I'm not saying I don't have empathy. I've talked to women for a living. I talk to women through DMs and I see it all and I'm constantly obviously talking to women. When we have people in our own personal life that are like struggling with these issues. It's not that I don't empathize. I empathize. I understand and I understand when you talk about childhood I can understand and I understand that I'm so lucky that I had a father that validated me and you know was the best dad ever. Like I can appreciate that. It just comes from yeah, not knowing how to get that male attention. You just don't know. So you try all these things. You throw shit at the

wall and hope it sticks, right? And then you're like, oh, this is how I get it. But I think if you treat yourself in micro things, like if you're thirsty, I know this sounds stupid, but just don't override that. Go get a drink. Go to the gym when you need to because you want to look after your body first. Go and do the things that you need to do for yourself. Eat the things that you need to eat. Prioritize yourself every single day until you feel selfish. People who are who are anxious, they need to feel selfish. It needs to feel a bit weird and wrong. They need to feel selfish. I think what I would say to anyone who's listening, if this conversation gets you going, like if you're pissed off at this conversation, I would stop and I would examine why this upsets you.

Because when I hear your content, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if it's upsetting you, there's something there to look at. And by the way, I would say this with any content. When I get upset at certain content, I take a minute and I'm like, why is this hitting a nerve? Just ask yourself that. Yeah, every emotion is trying to ask you for a check. Yeah, it's information. Take it as information.

Like mom guilt. People talk about mom guilt a lot and things like that. I have mom guilt. That's a great one. Mom guilt is your neurology saying, hey, do you remember you've got kids? You remember? Okay, no problem. How could I forget?

They're always there. But it's checking in. All you need to do with mom guilt is be like, thank you, got this. I got it. Thank you. I appreciate you. Right. Because if you forgot that you had kids and you had no mom guilt, that would mean just

biologically, it's not working. The response, the signal. You've mentioned a lot about psychology, a lot. How much of psychology is in your theory? Mostly all of it, because I'm, I am into stoicism and just reading, reading, reading, like when I was 20 and I was not getting my way. I went down the rabbit hole of, like, first starting, starting level Tony Robbins, you know, and then I went down, you know, how to get people to do what you want and all these things because I was like, I'm not getting what I want. And then it was NLP and all these things that I went down the rabbit hole of because I refuse to not be good at something that I need in my life. And that is interpersonal communication. I cannot be not good at it. So when I'm not good at something,

I just start to learn. How did you get your husband? I met my husband when I kind of got over all this. I literally, the, I dumped the guy who was cheating. Hey. Seven days later, I went out to a bar. I met him. Cute. Okay, whatever. We just met. And then three months in, he's like, I'm moving to Australia.

We're in London. He's like, I'm moving to Australia. I'm like, okay, see you later. He leaves. He buys me tickets, like, maybe two months in, and then three months in of him being there because he was working there. And I travel and see him, and the flight is like 105 years to go there. It's unreal. What is the route from London to? 25 hours.

Wow. That's the longest flight you can take. And at the time, I'm like, you know, working, I'm doing stuff, I'm busy, I completely changed my mindset. I am doing my thing. And on flight three, he was like, maybe you want to move here to Australia. I was like, for a boyfriend, that's not going to happen. No offense, but like, it's just not going to happen. And then he proposed.

He was like, but you would for a husband. I was like, okay. So by changing your energy, do you believe that it attracted the husband that you have now? Yes. And my career? and my everything. What are the holes that people pick in your theory? None. It's flawless.

No, I know. No, I mean, they can pick it. I don't read it. You don't even let it enter you. I don't have the time. I've got small children. I run this business like predominantly by myself because I don't know how to delegate. Well, I mean, I have a team, but I like overlook everything.

You need to teach me how to delegate. That's a process. That's a learning process. Like, I'm super bothered about like business. If my book was about business, it would be like super bothered and annoyed. You know what I mean? Because I'm like there. Me too.

But I think business is masculine energy. And also I get asked like, how do you be unbothered as a man? No, a book for men would be called bothered and in charge or like bothered and driven. Uh-huh. Because unbothered is a feminine thing that I think women need to embrace their feminine energy. Because when women try too hard, it comes off. And I don't mean hard in business. You can deploy your masculine energy in business.

And I love that. But women try too hard in relationships. Do you know what I hate about women trying too hard in relationships? Is it makes the rest of your life like take a background. You don't succeed in business. Your friendships go to waste. Like you don't look as good? Have you seen those TikToks where women like leave a toxic relationship or any relationship and they look better?

I have not seen those. That's men and women. Really? I don't know. I feel like now. You and I broke up, I would look way hotter. You think I would look worse? Yeah.

I feel like. No, because here's why. Everybody then is like, wait a minute. I'm alone. I got to get out there. again, I got to get my shit together. Women give men too much attention in a relationship. And then you get you back in the gym, you get the pump going on.

Yeah, so you should do that within the relationship. Of course, you should do both. But I'm saying everybody leaves and I guess some don't get better. What are little things that you still do to fuck with your husband? Oh, pull that girl. And don't tell me that you don't because I know there's stuff. All the time. You know what?

I, I try. Listen, I don't try. I do this. I don't nag him. Okay. I don't. That's hard. Do you know what I do?

What? I do mind games. Like, for example, if I want to nag him about something, I just let him, I know, shocking, but I let him meet the natural consequences of the decision he made. It sounds like, almost scarier than the nagging. I know. We were just in Las Vegas. He went out to the story.

I was like, can you buy some diapers, nappies? I don't know what you call it. He came back without them. I mentioned it on my Instagram, like as a passing thing. And all the women, all the women are like, oh, my God, I'd kill my husband. How dare he not buy the diapers? What are you going to do? What are you going to do?

I'm like, let him meet the nap. consequences. My daughter was like had no diapers. I was like, well, I guess that's a you problem. On the floor. Yeah. I love to say that's a you burden. That's a you burden. Exactly. And it's so hard for women to redirect that. But they like to, I don't know, maybe emasculate men in that way. They pick up everything. And they're like, why is you lying on the sofa, not doing anything? Because you've taken everything. And men are very clever organisms, I must say. They will only adapt to the level of intensity that they need to in life. Right? So if you pick up everything, they'll be like, okay, say less. Why? Why are they going to jump through hoops when they don't need to? That's so interesting. You're curious. I actually think it's amazing. That's when I, when I don't pick up the kitchen because I keep my house pretty good. I would say it's the vibes are vimy.

And when I'm overwhelmed and like the kitchen will get messy, you'll walk in and start cleaning up the kitchen, which is actually wild because you don't clean up the kitchen normal. Women like to mother men, martyr to men or manage them. That's what they like to do. And then they complain that it's not working. That's interesting. I just don't like a messy kitchen. Right? Correct.

But I don't make a mess in the kitchen either. Oh, okay. I don't make a mess. Oh, I know. Who's the martyr now? Yeah. I want to know the difference. Have you ever seen the kitchen sink of a shared bathroom between a man and a woman,

what the woman's sink typically looks like compared to the man? Yes. What's all that stuff you guys throw in there? I don't know. It looks like a, it's a lot. It looks like a shopping card of just like stuff that you pull off the aisle. I don't talk about your pubs on the toilet. Let's not talk about my sink.

Or the beard and the thing. It's like, what does all that stuff everywhere. I don't know what the fuck it is. It's disgusting shit. That stuff, at least, is not disgusting. It's like aesthetic. No. And also, I like to mess everything up to then clean it up.

Love. Reminds me of Mary Poppins. It's like a system regulation, isn't it? It's like. No, but I do, on the emasculation front, I will say for most of the men that I speak with that I think where the relationship is really going south, intimacy issues, maybe a wandering eye, maybe, you know, not connected. I think it's a real fine line between like ribbing your husband or like kind of get on

him and emasculating him. Well, explain that. I think that no man, at least nobody that I know, wants to be with a woman that makes him feel like less of a man. And that's just like, I don't think if you ask any guy, they're like, hey, do you want to go to the woman and have her kind of make you feel like you're not a man? I think every guy would be like a child or like a man or like your feminine or like and again that sounds you know but who wants to have sex with their mother if you're mothering him who wants

that yeah or but I think and you know and again like we had we've had some women on the show and we've talked about like this idea like and again I think women maybe do this more than men and I don't want to generalize but I just think I don't know a lot of guys that talk too much about the intimacy of what let's go on in the bedroom with their with their girl, right? I think women who do that behind the backs of their partner. I don't get what you're saying. Like, if you go in and start talking about, you know, intimacy issues with, with a guy, or you start talking to your girlfriends about how he's less than a man. That is not going to make your relationship better. Nor is constant counseling about sexual issues. That's controversial.

It's going to make it, it's going to make the person feel much worse about being with you, in my opinion. And I know, and I have a lot of friends that like who's, who are in those situations. And it's, I think it's a really hard thing to dig out of because when you're a man and you're with a woman, you want to feel manly. You want to feel like, oh, I'm not like a child. I'm not like someone who's talked down to. And people, you know, who I've worked with in the past, they're like, you know, we have sexual issues.

We've gone to a therapist and he's told him to, you know, do this, that and the other. And I'm like, you do you. You do what you want to do. But that is the last thing for sexuality to work is like communication and talking with a therapist is here and lust is over here. That's so interesting. It's like opposite. Are you going to nag him into having sex with you?

It's not sexy. Yeah. No. And again, like I'm not, lust is otherness. No, you're so right. It's on the other end of respect to. I don't have advice on what to do.

I'm just saying that in those situations, I don't know. I don't know of situations like that getting better. No. When a guy feels like, oh, I'm God. I'm with somebody who doesn't think I'm a man. When you mother him, he feels like a child. When you manage him, he feels like an idiot.

it and when you martyr yourself he feels guilty. Do I do any of those? No, because I would, like, there's, you know, like, I can, Lauren and I would have a good, what is it, a secure relationship? Yeah, you've got a secure relationship. But there's certain things around, like, you ebb and float, probably. And I don't care if this sounds kind of, like, there's certain things where it's like, don't cross that fucking line.

Of course. And like, that there's just, and she knows. And like those, that would be one of the lines. Like, if I hear she was running around and talking about it with her, I'd be like, nope, it doesn't work. Yeah, go back. Exactly. And that's a secure person.

Yeah. They've got limitations and boundaries. By the way, there's boundaries with her too. And so I think sometimes in the relationships, people allow behaviors that they shouldn't allow in the first place because they don't set up a boundary. Does she ever have desperate behaviors? I don't. I mean, maybe when we were, I mean, here's the problem. Younger.

No, say if I've had a desperate behavior, please go. No, no, I can't wait to hear what it is. No, no, we've known each other. The thing is we've known each other since we're so young. Like, I knew her when she was, and we weren't together that whole time. Yeah. She never had desperate behaviors with me. Oh.

But I do believe that in high school with your ex, like, I, like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I do believe you probably went through periods where you were not being as secure as you. I am not perfect. I have had all kinds of behaviors. And by the way, when I was. But I didn't say that I was perfect. I said the way I got my husband. Was different.

Right. So I have similar story to you. I've been. Yes. I've done the things. And you realize, oh, it's not working. I do believe everybody, especially in their adolescence, at one point or other, had insecure feelings or jealousy or like things that you grow. But when you're young, it's cute.

Yes. When you're 40 and you're doing it, it's horrific. Like, what's happening? Yeah. It reads as... I got in trouble at this. We just did this whole friends trip and I said, I do not want to hear about your childhood trauma anymore at 40 years old.

How do you guys do friend trips? How do you guys have the energy for friend trips? But what I think is like... I think you got to get the right, really right group. But one of my buddies, I think he was... He had a... He had a girl that he's just sort of dating on a trip and I, you know, and I think when I said it, I could tell, like, it really offended her.

Yeah. And that would I get. But like, I'm just, I'm sitting with my close friends, like, guys, if at 40 years old you haven't gotten, even figured out some kind of solution that you're working towards, like, what are we all doing here? Like, half our life's over. We got to figure the challenge. Just change yourself, decide. At 20 years old, I'll talk to you about your childhood. At 25, maybe. Once you're 40 years old and you have children of your own, it's time to. It's not adorable anymore. It's not adorable. No, it's not. Are you in the market for a new timeless ballet flat? I always love a ballet flat with a jean, with a pant. I like it with a long silk short. I'm really into ballet flats. I feel like they're essential for every wardrobe and every occasion, especially in fall. So let me tell you about one that's chic and elevated by Sam Edelman. You guys know Sam Edelman. It's such a popular brand. They do everything from handbags, fragrance, ready to wear, and shoes. They're like known for their shoes. There are so many pairs that you should check out. They have a classic loafer. It's called

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and this might be situational so you might say i don't know i need to see the situation i think just depends on if you're a securely attached person and you're just living your life and you don't have issues text them when when you want to it doesn't matter just live your life because it's it's too hard anyway you'll probably meet your person but if you're this anxious girly like oh boy but it's usually a girl have a time limit you know how you know how you're you have limitations with yourself, like, for example, you won't have more than a few drinks a night, or you're going to go to the gym every day, or you're going to have a thing. You need to have a pause because people are anxious don't have a pause.

They jump as soon as anybody from their work colleagues, emails, to their friends in a group, oh, should we go somewhere? You're the first person who's like, yes. Have a 60-minute window. I don't know what your window is. 60 minutes, you're just not allowed to reply. Have a rule that you have to follow because you have not learned to see how people will reply to you and how they will respond to you when you have a bit of space between you and other people and reachability.

I think, too, start if this isn't overwhelming with bookending your day, meaning like, I like to put my phone away at about 7.30. That's what I mean. It goes away. Silent mode. Right. And like if someone has a catastrophe, I'm not available until 10 o'clock next morning. Because I healed my anxious attachment with men. Like my husband is on red for hours or days sometimes, right?

But I was walking with a shopping cart through the store with my baby, something and some mother's group chat or some friends were messaging. And I was like, God forbid, I don't reply on time. And I'm like fumbling the phone. And then I was like, whoa, throw the phone away. Like, I do not. I refuse to be on other people's time in that way. It just frezzles me. It cannot happen. So it sounds like what you're saying to women, which I think is great, is to check yourself and to have awareness around why you're doing things the way you're doing it. Don't always attach your value to other people. Never do, in fact. Attach your value to yourself and other people will enjoy your presence more.

What do you notice after studying this whole theory in real life? Like when you're out in the wild, when you're going out to a bar, when you're a podcast, what do you notice where people are exhibiting these things that you're talking about? I think desperate energy is palatable. You can feel it. It's almost people, I'm sorry people are going to get offended. People get repulsed by it. I can see it from other people.

when somebody has a desperation and a really strong want to be liked, people almost sense like what Michael said, that there's something off about it. Agreed. That's a lot. That has to go into aloof like a poodle. Like it's a lot of that. It's a smell.

Yeah, it's a smell. It's an energetic. It's subconscious too. That's the problem. So I think what you're saying. And sometimes I say, you know what? To fall asleep, you've got to act like you're sleeping. You're going to lie to act like you're sleeping, right?

You pretend. Okay. So if you've got that desperate energy, pick a character in a movie and pretend to be them. Pretend to be cool. I don't care. You will see that people will respond to you differently and it will rewire your brain. You cannot understand how people will respond to you until you've done it. And at first you'll feel stupid like trying to lie there and fall asleep. At first it might not work. But over time, if you pretend to have a confidence in you and to have, for example, 60 minutes before you reply to people, I don't mean like something's burning down and it's work. I'm not saying do that. just in your personal life, you will see how people respond to you with more respect,

more admiration, just more time for you. I think what people recognize, though, is we are attracted to people that are self-assured and confident and empowered being themselves, right? And when I say, like, not to contradict myself from earlier about not being yourself, but if everyone wants to be around that version of the person, that version of the person, they indicate strength, they indicate warmth, they, other people want to be around them, they're bright, they're light, all those things. If you're not that, if you're insecure and you're angry and you're sad and you're desperate

to this, like, that is the opposite of that. So, like, you have to figure out a way how to break yourself out of that version because it's not something people are attracted to. The reason they're not is because you're monopolizing other people's time and attention as well. If you're a very insecure person, even in a friendship, and you're always asking for reassurance, you're now monopolizing that person's time, effort and energy. You always have to say to them, no, you look great. No, it's okay.

no, don't worry. On a micro level, I had a friend every time before we went out, she'd be like, do I look okay? Should I change? Does my hair look like this? By the end, I don't want to go anywhere. Right. Because you've taken my energy. Right. It's gone. I'm going to go to sleep right now because it was like 20 times that I had to reassure her. And women wonder why, you know, I say, don't ask your husband how you look or if your ass looks a certain way or what he thinks about how you look or point out the fact that your eyebrow is this and that. Because number one, he's going to see that your eyebrow is now weird or your nose is weird. Why would you want the person who you want to find you attractive to notice the thing that isn't attractive, number one, because he will

then notice it. And number two, if you're always asking for that validation, you are becoming burdensome. You mentioned martyring a couple of times. Explain what that means to maybe someone who doesn't really understand and how it shows up. In a relationship, you could be picking up everything for the kids, for him, making sure that everything's organized, sacrificing yourself in ways that he never asked you to do. Working two jobs to make some kind of idea that he had happen. I don't know. He wants to, I don't know, move somewhere.

Just sacrificing yourself, your peace, your time, everything in order to make someone else happy without telling them that you're doing it. But you've got to remember everyone who does something like that has a reason that they do it. Nobody is just a victim. It must make them feel nice in order to do the sacrificing. I noticed a lot of martyrs that I've met in my life. have parents that guilt tripped them. Correct. Is that a thing? It's always something that comes from the parents. But at the end of the day,

we need to stop blaming parents. Right. But I'll give you the reverse to pick on the men a little bit. It's like there's the example of the guy that's like, he's working all day long. He's busting his ass. He's not paying attention to his kids or his family. He's putting his career first. And then he's like, look what I've done for you. And I've done all this because for you and you don't even And it's like maybe the person's like I would actually prefer if you did a little less of that and you were just here more with the kids. So I think it works on both sides. But to your point, like that guy's not solely doing it just for the family. They're doing it to achieve.

There is always a reason people do everything. No one is just doing something for no reason. It's a series of events they've learned to understand will get them the result they want. Yeah. Like if I were to like, you know, I do, I am career oriented and I'm ambitious. And if I were to lie to Lauren and be like, this is just for you and the kids. That's a lie. Like it's because it's like this is the sport that I like to play. It's what I like to do. It's like it's the thing that that I like to compete in. Right. And so I can I know sometimes I have to catch myself and be like, okay, am I going too far? Am I doing this? And I have to talk to her about that. But I can't turn around and get mad at her and be like, well, I'm doing this for you and the kid. It's not. And that's the mattering. Yeah. What have you seen since putting out this content in people changing? Have you seen transformations of women completely up changing their own? And that's not. And that's. Do you know what I've seen and I don't attribute it to myself because I'm not that way inclined or focused, but that word unbothered has become like, it's, I'm bothered this. I don't know if it's serving it to me, obviously, because, you know, it is a thing. But women are like desperate to stop overfunctioning in relationships and overperforming. It's really nice to see someone just relaxed and happy to be themselves and not trying to be anything, especially when it's a woman. It's just lovely. And so to see it online, to see them talking about.

ever since I became unbothered, like things worked out for me and all these things. It's nice. I also think like when you're in a relationship to me, I don't care if you're married for 20 years or dating someone. The relationship should enhance your life. It shouldn't be a drag on your life. Your nervous system should feel safe. In my opinion, this is my opinion.

I think my relationship should be the least stress on my plate. When the relationship becomes the main event and it's all about, how that person makes you feel or what they did or what they text you. It's, it's a distraction. As I said, my career started to work and everything around me started to work when I put this on the back burner. Women just spend their whole lives. I now, from my angle, don't understand how you could spend so much time thinking about

a guy on why he texts or why he didn't. Just like, oh my God, just let him be. Yeah, an ideal relationship, it should be a safe place. that you come back to in a partnership where people are helping you work through stress. No, not to say there's a lot of stressful micro moments in relationship that every couple has to work through. But if your relationship is the main cause of your stress in your life, then that's a problem. But the people who are listening, the anxious people and the avoidant people, they're like, oh, but where do you get your adrenaline and your cortisol from? Where do you get

that spike from? Because how do they know they're thinking, it's not real? How do Michael and Lauren even know they love each other? Because to them, secure and nice and lovely place reads as boring, uneventful. But, and I'll tell them while they're listening, it's from business, as he just said, and from the vocations that they have. That is true.

What I did say in the beginning of our, I would say that I'm actually kind of boring in a relationship, in some ways, in the way that I'm pretty consistent, and you're not going to be, like you're not going to get shocked by some unforeseen event. Like,

meaning like there's not going to be so like it's kind of like I do this thing every day I do these things I'm this way in the relationship and when I told her when we first got together I said listen like you're not going to have these big spikes of like I'm cheating you're doing this and we're fighting like I don't want any of that I don't want to have these blowouts I don't want like and to and to your point I know some people that are in current relationships and some people close to us that's like in order for the relationship to be like oh do they really love me do they they have to have these crazy fights and these crazy breaks and this crazy oh he's into that person. And then they came and it's like a way to like, do you really love me?

Yeah. Like I think a secure person doesn't want that. I noticed that a lot of people are confusing intensity with compatibility. Correct. Those are very different things. Intensity to me is all these red flags, ups downs, passion, what fighting, whatever. Compatibility is different. When you're secure, that's boring. That's, that's now boring. If a guy came in here and he was, I can't even imagine somebody messaged me that her boyfriend was super jealous. To me, that's just like so off-putting, I can't imagine if my husband like burst in here jealous. I'd be like so icked out by it. But those people find that really like, oh my God, he wants me. Right. Ugh. I think, listen. Christ. I don't like that. Can you imagine if she was like fiercely jealous?

No, because then it would it like, okay, so my, like, my thing is I don't like, everybody's insecure. I understand that. I don't like when people wear it on their sleeve. Like I don't like to, I don't like to look at like as if it's something that you could like take off. Like it. What do you mean? I don't get what you're saying. Like, it's there. It's like a girl. Like a stench? If a, if a, if a girl walked up and said, and talk to me, which happens at occasion, and you were losing your shit, I would be like, what's going on with you? Like, I'd be like, what? I would talk to girls in my eyes.

Yeah. But I would be like, this is very strange behavior. Like this. I said, I mean, by the way, like, you want to go out into a restaurant, like, you know, guys are looking guys. Like, I'm like, good. Do you, like, you know, if you're, I would be very weirded out with myself and you if we started playing that game at. this age after everything i'd be like this is i said on a tic-tok that um if you're in a restaurant with a man you're dating or whatever your husband and he looks at another woman the last thing you should do is be like did you just look at her did you just look at her because by the way because what is he going to say yes i did i'm so sorry by the way like it's a it's a it's a it's an instinct it's a reaction people look at people there's a difference between looking and checking correct so it has to be an event that's happened i say in a book like once twice three times

you've got to get the data you can't be so unhinged you got to have emotional sovereignty like You've got to be smarter about life, right? If someone just glanced once and then you fly off the handle, you've communicated your lower value as well. And human beings don't have value. We're all the same value, blah, blah, blah. But if you are competing with random women who walk past, you're going to tell your partner that there's something again off about you.

Why are you so concerned? I love collecting data. Yes. It's a behavior for a while. You'd be like, listen, every time we go out, you're doing this. I'm heck. By the way, if Brad Pitt walked in the door, you're both looking. Okay, you're going to look.

You're like, that's Brad Pitt. Or if it's, I don't know, whoever. Whoever we like. Who's the guy? Tom Cruise? Tom Cruise? No. Tony's soprano.

Yeah. Whoever it is. But there's nothing wrong with, I think, like, looking. There's a problem with checking out and being disrespectful. You got to get the data. That's. I always tell Michael, I say if you cheated on me, I would do nothing. Same.

Nothing. Nothing. And he's like, what do you? Nothing. I would just collect my data and just maybe not do anything for two years. Yeah. I would just see how we go. I would see how we go.

I would see it as an open invitation for an open relationship, you know? And my husband was like, what do you mean? But what if you got mistaken? You don't know what I mean. I'm like, well, we'll see what happened. But you know, I do think in our relationship, we've had conversations at the beginning. Like, if we get to that place, it's just like, let's call it quits. It's over.

And I think, like, again, it's about a boundary. It's like, that's a boundary. That's a line. Like, if you cross that line, then it's like, maybe this, maybe we're not. It's not like, oh, you made a mistake. Okay, we'll try again. Okay, we'll try again. Okay, we'll try again. Okay, well, don't worry.

I understand. You can't do that. Then it's going to keep going and going. Okay, let's say that there's someone listening that has a gut feeling that something's wrong in their relationship. Like what? I don't know. Maybe they feel that their husband's jealous and maybe very jealous. What would you tell them to do?

Well, first of all, you've got to address why is he jealous? How quickly did you get in a relationship with him? Everything is data, right? So sometimes people are jealous because you hooked up on the first date. So he's like, well, no offense. Like, it's fine if you did, but maybe that's just how he sees you. Okay. That you're somebody who's just like, you don't have to do much for.

Can you change in a relationship? Or do you think once it's gone south, it's gone south? Oh, you can change. You just change your identity. And they will kind of buck at it for a while because they're used to being with the old person, but you just have to. So it's possible to change your identity within a relationship that's chaotic. Why throw out a relationship?

And I'm not talking about abusive. I'm just saying chaotic relationship. Why throw it out? when you can practice within it. That's really interesting to me. So you're not saying dump the relationship. You're not saying walk away. All the advice is always dump him, dump him.

We're just dumping everybody. People are not disposable. And also we forget, you happen to find him attractive. And all the advice is like, but dump him. What do you mean? You don't like anyone else at the moment. This is who you like. So use it as an opportunity to like work on yourself internally.

See how he responds when you make shifts about yourself. When you start watering your own garden, and you start looking after yourself, you get hotter. Stop, stop prioritizing him because it's depleting your energy. Stop chasing him. Stop looking after him. Stop mothering him. Making sure he's got his resume right.

Making sure that he, you know, went to work on time. Did he take his vitamins? Who cares? Right. What has been your most viral moment? I feel like you've had a lot of them. But what is gone like the most crazy for you? The boring uncle theory was funny.

What's the boring uncle theory? Because I always make a funny name. That's why it goes viral. I know. I'm obsessed with Clive. You said Clive. Clive, the guys are called something. The boring uncle theories because I was trying to wreck my brain how to explain to people because they don't understand how to treat someone when someone disrespects you, but not in a major way, but like they didn't return your call. They didn't, you know, they just acted that way. And they're like, but, you know, I flew off the handle. I yelled at him. You know, and I'm like, don't do that. Just treat him like a boring uncle.

And they're like, what does that mean? I'm like, you know when you come to Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving or whatever? And he's there. He's not done anything offensive. He's your uncle. And he's a bit boring. So you treat him nicely, but that's not where your energy and attention is going. So you talk to your friends, you talk to everyone else and he says something and you're like, oh yeah, yeah, hi, how are you? The attention is not going on the boring uncle, but he's also, you're not giving him negative energy because he's not done anything wrong. He's just your uncle Jerry, right? Everyone needs to rewind that and listen to that again. The boring uncle theory is amazing. It is because women either give negative energy. I said you need to be hard to get but easy to be with.

So women do the opposite. No tension. No tension. It's not, it's not that you're mad. You're not mad. It's just that you're good. You're good. And like, but he's just a bit boring. It's not his fault. You know, you see him at every family function. By the way, that's the way to get married. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Boring uncle. Boring uncle theory is you need to make merch that says boring uncle. Boring uncle theory. And you need to make like a sweater that's a little tiny boring uncle means you're busy. You have a life. You're not always open and available, right? Not playing the game of being busy. You're actually busy. Get a life. You're busy. You're actually really seriously busy. Yeah, you're doing stuff. Like you prioritized the right

things. You said you're going to see your mom. Don't cancel on your mom. You said you're going to do things with your children. Don't cancel. But be easy to be with because women do the opposite. Like he's left her on red. He's ghosted her and he's finding like, I'm free on a Tuesday. So she's really easy to get. She's like, yes, but she comes and she's mad. I love the boring uncle theory. Is that your substack name? I feel like it should be. It should be. It should be. Okay. What are people going to get out of this book Unbothered? Hopefully, start bothering about themselves and being unbothered about other people. You can't control other people. Trying to control other people's thoughts, actions, lives, and perception of you is a loser's game and you're going to lose a life. The only person you can control is yourself, right? Thank you for coming on the show.

Thank you for making the trip. Hopefully not 25 hours, but. No, it was 18. Unbothered the art of letting go to find yourself. Go get this book from the social media sensation and bestselling author of the new rules. Margarita, we've been trying to make this happen for a while. I think our paths crossed for a reason. I think so too. When I saw your content, I was like, ah! I know.

I remember when you were sending it to me. I know. I would send it to them and would be like, yes. It's fresh because it's a bit unhinged, I think. Like, I don't edit it. I don't overthink it. I don't know. I think that's the reason.

And it's raw. Everyone's got really good edits. now and I'm like, no, keep doing what you're doing. Listen, it might not be for everyone, but I think that I'm a believer that you attract what's supposed to be attracted. Does that make sense? Oh, yeah. Thank you for coming on. Where can everyone find you on social media? Go follow or TikTok. It's really great. Marguereseanco.com and yeah, everything's there. And where can they buy your book? Oh my God, where books are sold, I guess. Amazon everywhere. Yeah. Thank you for coming on the show. All the way from Sydney.