The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - How To Create A New Brand & Business From Scratch & Use Your Current Resources To Do So With The Founders Of JuneShine

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

#370: On today's episode we are joined by Greg Serrao and Forrest Dein who are the cofounders of JuneShine. JuneShine is the premier brand in the hard kombucha space and on this episode the two founders join us to tell us how they were able to build the brand from the ground up. This episode is for aspiring creators and entrepreneurs looking for that next unlock for their big idea.  To learn more about about JuneShine visit www.juneshine.com/skinny or use code SKINNY at checkout.  To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) Check Out Lauryn's NEW BOOK, Get The Fuck Out Of The Sun HERE This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential  The Hot Mess Ice Roller is here to help you contour, tighten, and de-puff your facial skin and It's paired alongside the Ice Queen Facial Oil which is packed with anti-oxidants that penetrates quickly to help hydrate, firm, and reduce the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, leaving skin soft and supple. To check them out visit www.shopskinnyconfidential.com now.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Oshēn Salmon Oshēn Salmon was created for those who longed for their perfect protein match. One that was easy to prepare, packed with protein, and made us glow from within. Hello omega-3s! Ocean raised salmon has more than 1,500 mg of Omega-3 content which is double the Omega-3 contentus versus most wild salmon. To get your box of Oshen visit www.oshensalmon.com and use code SKINNY for 15% off plus free shipping.  This episode is brought to you by GoMacro All GoMacro bars are made from simple, high-quality ingredients and are Certified Organic, Vegan, Gluten-Free, Kosher, Non-GMO, C.L.E.A.N., R.A.W.,& Soy Free. Visit www.gomacro.com and use promo code SKINNY for 30% and Free Shipping on all orders over $50. Produced by Dear Media 

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Aha! We started in a garage, so we had no idea. We weren't brewers, and we had very little money. We put together what we had. We had a little bit of friends and family money, but we literally started brewing in a garage without a product and without a brewer. So that was the first challenge. We had this idea.

We thought it was scalable, but how do we make this? I think we just had such conviction in the idea that people want products that are transparent, that are better for them, that are sustainable, and that are delicious, and that no one was really pushing that in alcohol. And we could do that. We could put our ingredients on the can, not be embarrassed about what's there. We could put our nutrition label on the can, not be embarrassed about that, and sell a delicious beverage. up a brand from the ground up to create a global presence, national presence, massive business. And I love conversations like this. You know why I like this episode? Because I feel like it inspires anyone that they can start right where they are. And with patience, determination, execution, strategy, they can build a massive brand like Juneshine. Yeah. One thing that's

extremely important to Lauren and I is that as we continue to bring on high performers on this show, that we don't overwhelm people and that we continue to inspire people to realize that anything is possible if you put your blood, sweat, and tears out there, if you make sacrifices, if you put your nose to the grindstone and get to work. If you've learned anything from listening to these episodes over the course of these years, it's that you don't always have to have it all figured out or have all the pieces in place to get something off the ground and make it extremely successful. Many of the people we interview, many of the founders, many of the operators, many of the creators started with

basically nothing and built their businesses from the ground up day after day, week after week, month after month to these massive brands that they are now. And so I just want to point out to everybody that's listening, there are gems in these episodes. There are gems from people that come on these shows to point out that no matter where you're starting out, you can figure out a way to make something happen. If you're going to start with a June shine, and I think I say this in this episode, but I think it's important to say here, I would start with the blood orange mint. It is so good, you guys. I'm obsessed with it. It's so cute. The branding is so adorable, but it tastes delicious.

Full disclaimer, during this episode, we were having so many of these that I might have started getting a little buzz during it. These things, they pack a punch. People hear hard kombucha and they think, oh, okay, it's not good. Be careful. These things pack a punch. Weston the other day was telling me how he got buzzed off one. It's 6% alcohol. Well, you don't feel as guilty getting buzzed off these for some reason. But no, I mean, I think during the episode, we did a taste test at the end and I think Blood Orange won. We didn't do a taste test at the end, honey. It was throughout the whole episode. Well, no, we were doing it throughout the episode, but then I think at the end,

we did an official taste test. We did that on air, off air. See, that was a little hazy, guys. Yeah. I did ask Greg and Forrest if they're single because they're kind of catches and they're not. Yeah. They're not single. Well, and apologies. I mean, listen, we've never met their significant others. I hope we don't get shit from them. If we would have met them, we would never ask if they're single.

But listen, we're trying to get to know these people. I appreciate both of them and their story about how they started brewing hard kombucha in June 2018 out of their garage in San Diego. Today, they're organic 6.0%. Kombucha has six flavors. Blood orange mint, my favorite. Honey, ginger, lemon. Oh my God. Midnight painkiller, acai berry, rosé, and last and the latest, hoppical citrus. The branding is cute. They sell in California, Oregon, Seattle, Austin, New York City, Hawaii, and Chicago. Next up is Boston, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. The duo closed a $5 million seed round. They are making moves and they are here to tell you how they bootstrapped

this company. With that, let's welcome Greg and Forrest to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. It's Monday. It's one o'clock. We're drinking alcohol. I said I was taking a break, but here we are. But you said we can drink alcohol because this is not actually cheating, right? It's about as better for you as alcohol gets. Oh, it's not bad. So you can still be on a diet and drink this. Yeah. Because it's only a hundred calories, right? Yeah. One gram of sugar. I'm having the grapefruit Paloma, double fisting it with the strawberry watermelon, which is a hundred calories a can. I got the blood orange mint and then I got two blueberry lemonade, strawberry wine. I'm going to have, let's see how many of these I get through this time. I just went to a bachelorette party this weekend

and all the girls, we were all in bikinis and we were all drinking June Shine and we were all going for the blood orange mint, which is really good in a wine glass with ice and a sprig of mint. Yeah. Yes. That's how it was originally supposed to be consumed.

Okay. So I would love to get some background on you guys, some story, how you guys met, how you guys started this idea. So if you could take us way back to the beginning. I love having alcohol founders on because it's technically, I can say we have to, I have to do this for work. I have to, I have to drink. It's one of the, I have to drink right now because it's for work. You have to test the product. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I actually grew up in Maui, Hawaii, moved there when I was six years old from upstate New York and went to college at the University of San Diego and met Greg my freshman year of college.

I think he was skateboarding by my dorm room. And at the University of San Diego, if you had a car, as a freshman, you were kind of like in this cool kid class. And luckily I had a car, so Greg needed a ride to the beach. So I think he at first was using me for my car, and then slowly we became actual friends. And yeah, that's how we met. It was 2010 University of San Diego at business school. Are you guys both entrepreneurs at this point? No, no. But we're useless 18 year olds in college.

What are you guys doing for work? Are you just like, are you nothing? Are you in school? Just like summer jobs, whatever you can do. Yeah. You taught surf lessons. Yeah. Probably just teach surf lessons. Both of our dads are entrepreneurs. So we always had it. I think at least for me in the back of my head, like I definitely wanted to start something, but didn't have any good ideas. Yeah. So at what point do you guys decide this idea? And really tell us the real story. Don't give us the fake, glossy story. No, no, no.

I want the rated R accent. I think first was all the ideas we didn't start. In college, we had a bunch of bad ideas. I actually used to, because I had this car, I would drive kids from campus to, all the older kids lived off campus and they would party off campus and the freshman kids needed a ride. So this is before Uber. So I kind of to like the, all the older kids lived off campus and they would party off campus and the freshman kids needed a ride.

So this is before Uber. So I kind of feel like I, but before Uber almost started Uber, but then didn't. And I feel like I probably should have, but that's ridiculous. That's a ridiculous claim. Michael claims stuff like that.

Michael's like, I thought about first came up with Uber. Yep. Yeah. I'll throw that out there. Yeah. We had a t-shirt idea we had a couple other ideas

we both in college studied business and had the same I studied political science actually still didn't teach you to do much except you want to go to law school or be a philosopher we were really close in college and we had a lot of business ideas

most of them were pretty bad. And when we went to graduate, I think there was this, like, pull to try to start something. And I think we realized that, and I still feel this way, that we didn't really know anything. Like, we just graduated school, and you have bills to pay, and what did you learn, and what skill set. And so we actually ended up going our separate ways.

So the idea for June Shine was, I think, three years post-graduating. But so are you guys sitting there drinking kombucha? And I'm probably pronouncing it wrong. People get mad at me. And you think, okay, we need to do this boozy. How does this idea come about? And also it's so aesthetically pleasing. Yeah.

Yeah. So I think those three years in between are important. When we graduated, I actually got into content creation. My older brother was a professional photographer and was going to Iceland and I jumped on a plane with him to Iceland just to be his assistant for two weeks, fell in love with content, started filming short films and creating video content. I grew up with a couple of pro surfers from Hawaii. And so I spent two years traveling around the world shooting professional surfers,

mountain bikers. I did a hip hop tour in 30 states and 12 countries in Europe and just like perfecting the art of content creation while Greg was working on Wall Street

doing something very different. Way less sexy job. That doesn't seem to me within seconds of meeting you, your energy, Wall Street. Yeah. Well, I would. Wall Street. Yeah. Well, I would agree with that. Yeah.

I mean that in the nicest way, too. And I really appreciate that. That's a very nice thing to say. I wouldn't want you to say the opposite. I think I would say one of us had to learn the boring shit. And I went to do that. And I was living in Manhattan. And Forrest, I would see him once in a blue moon

because he's like traveling all over the world. And whenever I'd see him, I'd be doing the same shit. And he would come and be like, yeah, I just got back from Fiji. You know what I mean? Or, you know, filming Sessions, that pro surfer. I just got back from Europe on this music tour. It's like, wow, you really should have gone your route, you know? Yeah, but I would see his paychecks and I was like, okay, he's doing something right over there. Yeah, that's true. At the University of San Diego, the original Ballast Point tasting room.

Have you guys heard of Ballast Point? I mean, we both grew up in San Diego and I was going to mention like there's so many, I mean, obviously we've had Josh Landon and we're partnered in his business, Ashland here. You know, I went to college with a guy named Doug Constantino who started Society. Yeah, yeah. So I feel like whatever's going on down there in San Diego, and I don't know how this went over my head, there's obviously a group of individuals down there that's really doing well when it comes to doing cocktails, beverages right.

Yeah. And this is definitely diverting for a sec, but we owe a ton to San Diego. I mean, we have a long way to go, but to get to where we were, a lot of that has to do with San Diego is by far the best place to incubate alcohol business. You can argue every industry's like, you want to do high finance, you have New York, you want to do tech, you have Silicon Valley,

or maybe Austin will be taking that over. We'll see. But you get my point. I think for alcohol, San Diego, it's just like incredible how many talented people there are in the industry brewers sales folks marketing distributors you know yeah and we fell in love with craft beer in college the the tasting room was across across the street from campus so we would literally ballast was yeah yeah the original ballast point

home brew mart so you could like buy brewing equipment they had 20 flavors on draft and it was a dollar for a three ounce taster. So you could go and have nine tasters that were like 12% IPAs and go back to class and you're like a little buzzed. But that's where we got a kind of like our homebrew education. I didn't even know what craft beer was growing up in Hawaii.

And that kind of turned us on. But we also were, I was the captain of the surf team at USD. Greg was on the surf team and we'd go have, you know, a bunch of IPAs and wake up at six for a surf contest feeling like shit. And that wasn't sustainable. So that kind of turned like, we asked this question, why do we like, do you have to continue to drink this way? Or like,

could there be a better way to do it? And I think we had that in the back of our heads for a few years. And then I think like, so for Forrest and I, one of the things that we originally connected over was the outdoors and it started like surfing, snowboarding, fishing, for force and i one of the things we originally connected over was the outdoors and it started like be that like surfing snowboarding fishing like any like thing to do with being outside and i think that that started to inspire a lot of the way that we looked at like what we were putting like in or on our bodies and we started getting really interested in what i would say is like

the better versions of products to kind of replace like yesterday's version so you know you've had you've had like a lot of these, you, you export a lot of these products, which I think is awesome. Like thinking about products that are transparent and sustainable, but are everyday products and what we realized and we had, we kept like sharing, we'd find new products. Hey, like, wow, this deodorant is, is made naturally and doesn't have aluminum in it. And like, we would talk, even though we weren't living together anymore we were comparing all these products and as time went on there's kind of been this proliferation of sustainable transparent brands in almost every category of alcohol and it was like wait why isn't an alcohol going to come out and just put the ingredients on the label and tell you why they're making it in a better way and why do we know so

much about the foods that we eat and the clothes that we wear, but we know literally nothing about the alcohol we put in our body. Like if you go into any grocery store, even a Whole Foods, like most of the alcohol there, they're not legally required to disclose what the ingredients are. It's just not-

What are some nasty fucking shitty ingredients in alcohol? Like name a couple so we can educate ourselves. Yeah, so we were actually just up in napa exploring the wine industry and learned about this thing called mega purple but essentially that's so what makes your teeth red when you drink red wine that people say it's oh it's the it's the grapes but no it's this mega purple which is like a gnarly food coloring additive that they make wine look like red wine but really sometimes it's even just

like for like sugar water alcohol that they dye red with mega purple and then add grapes too so yeah that's one example but there's a bunch corn syrup yeah uh just like that stuff doesn't it's hard to even in beer when you're brewing beer at a huge scale they'll use these different kind of additives to make it brew faster to settle faster there's obviously there's good organic beers out there but there's a ton of different stuff someone was telling me that they add to certain wines 40 to 60 grams of sugar a bottle yeah yeah i switched to dry farm wines yeah yeah those are awesome they were great yeah yeah i would like to know when you guys are doing all these this this deep dive into the product is this while you're on Wall Street or is this while you're

at school? No, no, not while we're at school. So the idea originally was, okay, let's make the better for you, better for planet alcohol. Let's do that. And remember, this was like three and a half years ago, we started this idea. And like there you know seltzer wasn't really even a big category so it was really just like your beer your wine your spirits like you're drinking the same thing so redundant and so it wasn't so much like we love kombucha so much that we need to drink it 24 7. but what we realized was like this is the best product to launch this new category with because of how many positive attributes kombucha gives you naturally.

And so at that point I had moved on to actually join a small, really quickly growing business. And I was in Boston and I had a few friends who knew how to homebrew on the Cape, which is where my family lives. So I bought a homebrewing kit and tried to learn how to brew. And we brewed.

Was it kombucha first or was it beer? We did a bunch of things, but we tried a beer, we tried a wine, but we tried brewing hard kombucha. And the first one we brewed was like really good. And so naturally I'm like, I can do this. This is the second one I did. It was so bad. When he says we, it was him and his friends on the coast.

I was in Hawaii still shooting and ordered a homebrew kit online and was so overwhelmed by the box. I didn't open the box. I was like, okay, I'm a marketing guy. I can tell stories, create content. But I was going to leave the brewing to the experts. Which is not me. We have the best brew team in San Diego. That was like one of the first lessons learned.

But this was 2018, January. Greg was still on Wall Street. I was still in Hawaii. We were talking about this idea. We actually flew to San Diego to try all the products that were on the market. So we tried every hard kombucha that was out there. There's only two at the time. We drank a bunch of seltzer, craft beer, and just, we really wanted to test it and see what it was like in person. And that really gave us the confidence

to quit what we were doing and move back to San Diego full time, which was about February of 2018. So Greg left a lot of stuff on the table to move out there. I didn't have much. I want you guys to talk about that a little bit, because listen, we did some deep diving on you and you guys were young when you started,

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That's a young age to do this. Also a young age to say, fuck it, I'm going to quit a cushy, high-paying job and maybe a life that maybe not as high paying, but you were comfortable. Right. And I think what we talk about a lot on this show is kind of getting people to question the status quo, but getting them to question like the path they've set out for themselves and say like, Hey, is there a better way to do it? I personally believe that when you're that age is a much better time. I think people think like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to get a nest egg and then I'm going to try. But if you take my personal situation now, personally, you know, I've done a lot of wild shit in my life, but now I have to be a little bit more thoughtful because I got a wife, I got a kid. It's not to say I still, I mean, I'm still pretty

wild. I'll still do shit. But when I was young, I really didn't like, if I fucked up, I didn't have to worry. Like I was like, it's just me. Right. And so I encourage young people to kind of like break out of the mold a little bit and take chances when they're going to, maybe you guys could speak to it a little bit. Cause it's a, it's a me right and so i encourage young people to kind of like break out of the mold a little bit take chances when they're gonna maybe you guys should speak to it a little bit because it's a it's a daunting thing for a lot of young people to think about doing yeah yeah yeah i would say i think i think we really both though to our our dads growing up seeing i think if you see someone in your family like your father six who's a successful entrepreneur multiple times over i think that really i was raised like you can do, like you can choose to do anything.

You can be anything. Obviously everyone grows up in different circumstances, but I think that's so important that either education or your parents raise you that way. So I think I was always encouraged to take risks and to try different things. So I think that's really what gave me the confidence to do it. But again, I had a lot less to leave on the table.

I was rich in lifestyle, but not in terms of money. But Greg had a different kind of set of criteria. Yeah, yeah. My old man's an entrepreneur too. He's a maniac. And I think that one of the things I learned from him is like, if you do anything, you go in head first. And you know what?

Actually, that's not a good lesson for a lot of things in life. It's gotten me into trouble. But like in terms of starting something, I was a big believer that we didn't spend much time thinking about it. I would say we spent a couple months talking about it, doing a little bit of homework, right? Like the bare minimum. But I think we just had such conviction in the idea that people want products that are transparent,

that are better for them, that are sustainable, and that are delicious, and that no one was really pushing that in alcohol. And we could do that. We could put our ingredients on the can, not be embarrassed about what's there. We could put our nutrition label on the can, not be embarrassed about that, and sell a delicious beverage that people could have a few of and wake up and feel good. That also looks cute on my Instagram story. That also looks cute on your instagram the takeaway there is like if you read between the lines it was also like a full commit yeah yeah i think a lot of people like i

might try or i'll do this kind of thing and they get the side hustle confused like a lot of this stuff that we hear is what started as a side hustle but it was we protected our revenue and stuff on one side, but there was a full commit. It wasn't like, I'm going to try this and see what works out. It was like, I'm doing this on the side, but it's a full commit.

It's like, it's, I'm not going to give up or, or, or quit when it gets tough. And I think a lot of people don't think about it that way. Yeah. I a hundred percent agree with that.

We, we have a lot of friends who are half in different side businesses and very few of them ever make it because it takes a hundred percent commitment every single day to even, to even get past the starting point. What you guys said that I think is so smart too is you said when you went into it, you knew you were building brand and that takes time. It's not like overnight success. Exactly. Can you talk about some of the struggles that you guys endured in the beginning? Yeah. So, I mean, we started in a garage. So, we had no idea. We weren't brewers and we didn't, we had very little money. We put together what we had. We had a little bit of friends and family

money, but I mean, we literally started brewing in a garage without a product and without a brewer. So that was the first challenge. Like we had this idea, we thought it was scalable, but like, how do we make this? So just even finding someone to make the product in the beginning was a huge challenge. And then I think going from there, renting the first brew, we went from garage to micro brew pub in San Diego. And that was like, we had to personally guarantee this brew pub.

And it was like, you will pay rent for five years. And we, you know, we barely had any money in the bank. It was like, okay, yes,

sign this, sign that. So I think that kind of goes back to the commitment. It was like, we're going to do this. We're going to make it work a hundred percent and like put everything on the line. Like we would be still liable for that rent today

if it hadn't been successful. So we still are liable. I have a confession. Yeah. I have a live Scooby. Scooby. How do you say it? Scooby.

Yes. In my house. That's a living organism that Michael thinks I'm'm nuts about like because i don't know what the fuck it is it's in this corner floating around it looks like like discharge i don't even know how to explain it do you guys start the brewing process with how do you scoby scoby is that how you start it yeah so it's a symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast and that's alive right yes exactly it's a living organism that goes through generations and people are very mysterious and secretive about their scobies. There's this whole like scoby culture in the brewing industry,

which is kind of awesome. It's the more mystical part of kombucha we don't often get to talk about, but I think it's what makes it really unique compared to a seltzer or beer because it is this live organism. No two scobies are the same. Our scoby is totally different than our competitors. And the way you treat it and grow it over time definitely makes a product different. Wait, wait, wait. So do you have the same scoby that you had when you started? I don't understand that. Not in the way that you're thinking where like we've never cleaned our tanks, but like the actual chem chemist like the actual bacteria and yeast is like is reproduced continually yeah it started from the garage it's still the same original bacteria evolved over many generations so is it big or is it small or is it just like mine at my house

it's it's proportionate it's it's not it i hope that based on what you're telling me, what yours looks like at your house, I do not think that ours looks like that. I'm going to send you a picture. I'm going to send you a picture. You should send me a picture. Maybe we'll give you some tips. Or yeah, I don't know. I don't think ours looks the same.

Okay, it's probably... It sounds like how a science fiction movie starts out. It's like this thing grew and it was in a garage. It's like the strain or something. Well, i do think there is a little bit of like sometimes confusion about like so when i told i was fishing with my old man when i told him i'm like hey i'm gonna go start this company the hard kombucha company and he's from massachusetts he's like what the fuck is hard kombucha? He's like,

is that that stuff with the floaty shits in it? You know what though? Anyone, anytime someone who's really successful says, what the fuck is that? You're onto something. I was told so many times when I first started blogging, what the fuck?

You're not going to make any money. No one's, no one's going to pay any money. Wow. Well, you proved that wrong. I was like, you don't understand. I'm building a brand.

And I think that when your dad said that to me, that's like. Well, you proved that wrong. I was like, you don't understand. I'm building a brand. Yeah. And I think that when your dad said that to me, that's like a green light. Let's go. Because if he was, if he was like, oh yeah, you're going to make so much money. Everyone else is doing it. It's a funny thing to think about some like hard ass Boston dudes who are just thinking like, what the fuck is a can of beer? Now we have all these people saying, hey, you guys should make a hard seltzer. My dad sends me like the seltzer headlines all the time.

I'm like, dad, there's 400 hard seltzers on the market. It's like, you want to be the person, exactly what you said. People are like, what is that? Right before it becomes something important. I think a lot of people put products, I think what you said is important about the lifestyle side. We see so many brands that go into Erewhon with a really cool story and product, but they just put it on the shelf and think that the job is done.

And like, you have to build the lifestyle and the brand that you built around what you do. So that's where a lot, you have to have a, having a great product is just like the table stakes. That's like your ticket to the game. And then you have to build a brand and the lifestyle. And that's what I think we've done differently.

There's amazing hard kombuchas out there. They just don't have the brand or the storytelling side of it, which I think sets us apart. Yeah, I also think too, and what you guys have done so well is you're right. It's not just putting the product on, on the shelves. It's also going back to your Instagram and telling the story and showing the story and showing the content creation and distributing the content on social as well as having it on the shelf. There's so many brands that just like, I noticed that they do this

thing where they'll do an editorial shoot and they'll get all the shelf. There's so many brands that just like, I noticed that they do this thing where they'll do an editorial shoot and they'll get all the photos. And then for the next eight months, they're posting pictures from the shoot. And it's like, no, you're not integrating it into a daily story. Like you need people integrating it into their handbag

and at the bachelorette party and at the podcast, like it needs to be integrated. And I find that really interesting how brands just think they can do one photo shoot and then post editorial content for eight months. It's such a miss. The bigger thing is, is that most people that come in, you know, work in companies or work on companies is they put like 90% of their thought process into marketing and sales, right? But if you put that same thought process into building a great brand, like you have to do much less of marketing and sales because like one, if it's a strong brand,

your inbound cycle is going to be much stronger. And two, if you have a strong brand, it's going to be much easier to sell because the people that are attached to it are going to do the selling for you. And I think it's so counterintuitive to think about that. But like, even if you think about,

like I'll give you my own personal example, like with Dear Media, like we've spent $0 on paper. I actually don't even have a marketing department yet. Right. And it's because like, I think you build a brand in the community and I, and I wish more people would put thought like you guys have into this because we all know those people. They always seem to be like jumping

onto the next, like, and they make money, right. But they're like, they're in that next trend. Like one day they're doing this and they're in crypto. Then they're like, they're always on the thing that's popular, but they never quite build the brand. And you're like, it's a very stressful way to live. You're just jumping from one thing to the next. It's like one bandwagon to the next. Yeah, I think that goes back to when we started it. We wanted to build something that was going to last and also have a positive impact.

We were both, I was at a place, I think the world doesn't need any more just products. There's so much stuff. If we're going to create just more stuff without purpose, I think it's wasteful. So that was always ingrained as well, was like our purpose is to brew honest alcohol for a healthier planet. And the healthier planet side is just as important as just as important as the honest alcohol side.

I think that stands out as well. I think there's just there's so much stuff out there and it's like you don't really need a lot of it. I think it would be an easy move for you guys to go into a seltzer, but I feel like it would be so counter to the brand and the culture and the mission that you're on, right? You guys are doing the one thing. It would be, and I think so many people feel the pressure to like jump when another category pops, but like that would fully take you out of what you're doing. Cause you probably couldn't do the same type of labels and transparency and the same type of ingredients, right? Yeah, exactly. It's two different things. Yeah. You know what one of my favorite deliveries is, Michael Bostick? I think I have a good idea.

It's ocean salmon. And I am telling you, it is the perfect dinner. All you have to do is open your door and outside will be this delicious situation of salmon that's packed with omega-3s, okay? So this salmon is very detailed, which we love. It's free of microplastics, no growth hormones, and heavy metals. So many salmons are filled with shit, by the way, which is so gross. And with ocean salmon, you know exactly what you're getting. It's ocean salmon, which has 1,500 milligrams of omega-3 content, which is double the omega-3

content versus most wild salmons. You should also know their premium Atlantic salmon is raised in open nets in the fresh waters of Chile. My favorite one is the One Night Stand. I've talked about this a lot. So you're going to get this kit. It's shipped fresh. It's never frozen. It's skin on fresh portions. You get an eight ounce portion duo, which I love because sometimes I'll cook the whole eight ounces and I'll save half for the next day and eat my other piece for dinner. And how I like to enjoy it is a little lemon, a little chili flake, a little rosemary. It's so good, you guys. And then if you want, you can put sriracha on top. It's absolutely like

hitting the spot. It's $45 for Miami customers and $75 for national. You want to check out the one night stand. It's so cute. The brand is like something you'd want on your Instagram, which I think is so smart. It's a great source of protein. Ocean salmon arrives seven days fresher than anything you can find at your local retailer to get your box of ocean visit oceansalmon.com and use code skinny for 15% off plus free shipping that's o-s-h-e-n-s-a-l-m-o-n.com and you're going to use code skinny ocean raised ocean loved salmon as it should be be. What I respect so much about what you guys have done is you've essentially created a category, which is why I think it's so genius. And I think you're going to sell for a huge amount of money, but you have created a category, which is so cool. But why I love this brand is I heard about it through word of mouth. My sister-in-law, Jordan, came to me and she's trying

to lose weight. And she said, I don't know if now she is, but she was after pregnancy. And she said, oh my God, I'm obsessed with Juneshine. You have to try it. It's so good. And she like sold it to me. How have you guys used the community? And I don't mean use in a bad way. I just mean like, like supported the community to talk about you guys in such a positive way. Yeah. I think it really started in a very small way in North Park in San Diego with the original brew pub. There is a tasting room attached to the brewery and we would have never, when we started, we didn't think we'd get into the hospitality business. It was always a brewery and sell to wholesale. And we had to open up this tasting room to pay for the rent

for the brewery. So we got forced into the hospitality industry. We ended up making this, what I think is a pretty cool and unique tasting room in San Diego. Every brewery and tasting room, kind of it was like the guys would go out and everyone has big beards and it was like the craft beer culture of San Diego. And there's nothing that was like had great interior design and good music and that smelled good and looked good and was a place you actually wanted to hang out if you weren't a craft beer nerd. So I think we solved that issue in Sango when we started and we just really we made it a community a community gathering place so we reached out to every local group and every local crafts maker and yoga person or not really influencers but more like athletes artists and creatives and integrated into the community and made it a gathering place and i think that that just grew from North Park. And now we're doing that in 30 states, but

we kept that same mentality of like, let's give back to the community, create value for North Park. They embraced this. And then everyone just started talking about it. I was like, hey, like if you're doing a bachelorette party, or if you're doing a, if you're going to do a sip and shop for your new clothing line, you wanted to do it at Juneshine because they knew there was going to be a really cool group of people there and everyone supported each other. So we've kept that same mentality as we've grown. And we also have kind of similar to Ashlyn. We have a co-owner ambassador group of athletes, artists, and creatives, people I used to work with. And now we've branched out. We've got some cool new ones. Whitney Cummings just came on. And so we work with them. They

actually invest in the brand. They own a small piece. And instead of just being like a pay to post, they're true co-owners and shareholders in the brand. And I think that helped us as well, especially we haven't just gone for like the super influencers. It's more like the Whitney Cummings of the world that are either comedians or artists or athletes. I think those two things have really helped us. Let's talk about some of the stuff that some people may find more boring, but I think it's important because you guys have built obviously a very formidable business here when you're 25, 24, 26 years old and you're building this, obviously funding comes into play because getting something like this off the ground is not easy and it's not cheap. I know.

How did you guys approach that in the beginning? Because I think a lot of people, they go, Oh, I have this great idea. And as soon as the money conversation starts, they're like, they're defeated there. I don't have money. I don't have friends. I don't have a big investor. How did you guys approach that piece of this puzzle? Yeah.

I asked my dad, but he said no. So then I was like, okay, we have to go. He laughed and was like, same thing that his dad said. Yeah.

I was too stubborn to take my old man's money. I think when you're starting, I don't know if you guys feel like this. You guys obviously are very entrepreneurial too. I feel like the first few months of starting something, being naive and ignorant is a strength because if you knew everything you were up against, it would overwhelm you and you wouldn't start.

And that would be a mistake in the long run. But after the first few months, you have to stop being ignorant and naive. And so one of the things that we started doing early on, and part of this is just like, we're just fortunate that some people believed in us, is we started recruiting non-board advisors. And they started helping us think through some of those harder questions

so that when it came time to, hey, we actually have to raise money, it wasn't the first time we talked about it. It wasn't this big, scary thing. And we already had some folks who were pretty influential that were behind it, both from like an advocacy and also from a capital perspective. But we had to raise money six months in. What did that look like with those advisors? Was it like, Hey, I'm going to somebody who's done this before. I'm going to somebody with deep pockets. And like, are they getting equity or are they just talking you through it and telling you what to expect? Because I think this is the piece that people want to know the most. I think once you get on the front end, you get those first, I think it gets easier question, we try to find people kind of from a specialty perspective. So I'll keep some of the names confidential. But if we were trying to find an expert in distributor, let's go to someone who's worked at a distributor in their past life.

If we were trying to find someone expert in organizational development, which comes a lot sooner than you think, then let's go find someone who's a CEO of like a really, a company that was, people like to work for, right? And so we kind of started lining up these folks and yes, they all had, excuse me, have ownership in the company. And were you doing cold outreaches or were they warm introduction? Because I think like this is the piece,

people are so daunting. They're like, how do you go to a guy that's a CEO or a girl that's a CEO of a company that's already done well, and like get them to believe in two young guys that are just getting started. Yeah. And that's where I feel like I think there's just an element of like, I don't, I won't say luck, but just like almost just good fortune. I mean, the fact that the people that we did talk to were saying like, yeah, but not everyone says

yes. But you, but how, like when you say like, what's the percent, how many people were you talking to? Okay. So, all right. So it's basically the way i would like so i'll just say like on and but people know this but our uh a very big investor and advisor to us is peter hall so he started our x bar he sold that to kellogg um we started you know him and jared um they're both amazing and when i was introduced to them i, I knew that we were vertically integrated. So we make all of our own product, which if you look at a lot of consumer brands today, for efficiency reasons, they don't. But when we started off, there was no one who could contract brew our product.

So we bought Ballast Point's old brewery. So that basically means that as an early stage company, we're going to have a lot bigger organization than most other companies that are early stage, whose entire manufacturing piece of that business would be outsourced, right? But you have a strong asset then. Totally, long term, yeah.

Short term, just a ton of stress. And anyhow, so Peter had this reputation of just being an amazing people leader and setting up really good culture. So after I met him, I just called him and said, hey, I know it's kind of the blue, but this is what we're trying to do. And would you, you know, be willing to give me

an hour of your time every other week? And that's kind of how the relationship starts. And it's advanced, you know, since then. But I guess just like kind of dating. Like even taking a step back from there, we had a list of people. We just sat down with a pencil and paper and like, who are the people that we look up to

and inspire us? We reached out to Patagonia. They're one of our favorite brands. It just didn't make sense. I was shameless. Yeah, we were shamelessly reaching out. Like when you reach out, is it through an email? It could be anything like a like contact at

patagonia.com i've dm'd i love it i'm the same fucking way i love it what's the worst this is the stuff people need to hear though because i think people get so like they think well if i don't get the introduction or i don't really know somebody who knows and it's like yeah i am a firm believer that like the DM, the call, the email. I honestly got the first 300 big celebrity name interviews on my blog by tweeting them. There is no excuse. And listen, I got a thousand no's. Let's put that on the table.

I got thousands of no's, but I got 200 yeses. So you take the 200 and then you leverage it for the next 200. I think that's such good advice, what you guys just said. Stop making it this fancy schmancy thing that you have to have some connection. That's an excuse that's holding you back that you're making for yourself. Just reach out. A lot of these people were in your shoes and want to hear from real young people who are trying this, not from other people that have a ton of connections.

Because we get reached out to now a lot, or not a lot, but sometimes we always make time to help people. So we remember three years ago, we were those people. And yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it must be, we're not successful yet. So I just always wonder, what is it like when you're successful

and maybe you guys are experiencing this and then you're trying to start something again, that is like scary to me because right now we have nothing to lose. So we'll just be like absolute savages about it. Do you know what I mean? Like this is all we have. So it's, it's the scariest thinking about like, I think that's the difference between like successful people and not as like

people that lose their drive. It's like you think, or you think that because you did something one time successfully, you can do it forever. Right. Yeah. You believe your own hype. Yeah. lose their drive. It's like you think or you think because you did something one time successfully you can do it forever. Right? Yeah. You believe your own hype. Yeah.

What about someone that does fucking amazing in one category and then thinks they can go to every single category? Like how many people do we know that have crushed it

and sold their company for so much money and then opened a restaurant but they weren't in the restaurant industry and then the restaurant food. Or vineyard. Yeah.

Or vineyard. What does it say? Kevin said it. Napa's where billionaires go to become a millionaire. Oh my God, that's amazing. How did you guys have the foresight? I'm very interested in this. To design the can to be so aesthetically pleasing. Like it's a can that you would want on your Instagram feed.

You want to put it on your Instagram stories. It's really, really cute. So one of the things we learned early on was divide and conquer. Super important, especially because we are friends, even though we're very different. And if it was up, this is ridiculous. So I thought that we should put it in like brown stubby bottles, like red stripes. Yeah, I know. So after that, it was like like i'm just getting out of

this branding department unenforced took charge so you can talk to that how did you say no no no we actually did a trip with brown stubby bottles and these like paper labels that the first time we did a photo shoot we like hand bottled bottles in the garage i was like breaking glass bottles glass is also so much less sustainable. I don't know what we were thinking. But honestly, I talked to a few designers and I just realized that

I think these design firms, they all kind of put out stuff that looks the same and there's like a formula like what font is trending. Like last year, it was sans serif and like everyone rebranded

the sans serif font and I think that that kind of turned me off in the wrong way and my brother and I actually designed the original Blood Orange mate can

ourself in Photoshop. We're not, neither of us are graphic designers. Now we have a design team that helps and things have gotten better. But it was literally my brother and I were just like, what do we like? What do we think is cool? The artist is Nick Kuchar from Hawaii. He was a friend of a friend. So I reached out, this is another example. I reached out to probably 40 artists and 35 of them never got back to me. Four of were too expensive nick was the only guy that was like this i love kombucha i love hard kombucha you guys seem like cool kids yes you can work with me like i'll help you with the art so we used his art my brother and i just sat down and photoshop and we're like we were inspired by a few other companies but it was really i knew it was going to be photographed and it was right when instagram stories were

taking off so i was like if you can make something that people want to share and and hold in their hand that's obviously like people think about the packaging more as like function but for me it was right when Instagram stories were taking off. So I was like, if you can make something that people want to share and hold in their hand, that's obviously like people think about the packaging more as like function. But for me, it was kind of like fashion. And we wanted something that was going to be aesthetically pleasing. But it was honestly like we bootstrapped it in the beginning. And yeah, I mean, there wasn't a lot to it. The other day, we were in the airport. We had no food because I ate it.

You ate my food and the baby's food. I literally ate Zaza's food. I could not believe it. I wanted to almost report you to child services. You didn't only eat my food. You ate the baby's food and left me and Zaza destitute. We had nothing. This is a true story.

So we're coming back from Cabo and I got the most epic tacos ready to go. Quesadillas, tacos, everything for the baby and me and you to share. Yeah. And then I ate it. Thank God I had go macro bars. Okay. I had them on hand, ready to go. I brought them down to Cabo and I had the newest flavor, which is my favorite flavor and Zaza's, which is the lemon plus lemon. It is like a glass of fresh squeezed lemonade. The kind of lemonade that you see when you're driving down like an old street with lots of trees and there's like little girls behind like a wood stand. That's the kind of lemonade we're talking. I just want to know what you would have done if you didn't have that bar and we had a

screaming baby on a flight back from Mexico with no food. I feel like I had us covered. This one is filled with organic lemon, crispy puffed brown rice, and a rich organic cashew butter. And here's the deal. I covered my ass because it was made with 10 grams of plant-based protein. And you should also know it was certified organic, vegan, gluten-free, kosher, non-GMO, clean, raw, and soy-free. So I actually am the mom of the year, okay? You're going to get your hands on Go Macro's new Lemon Plus Lemon Macro Bar by going to

gomacro.com and using promo code SKINNY for 30% off plus free shipping on all orders over $50. I'm telling you, your kids, your husband, you will love Go Macro's flavors. The Lemon Plus Lemon is my recommendation. Always have them in your bag because you never know when you're going to want to eat someone's quesadilla and tacos. Or your children's food. People whine and cry and complain all the time about how life is so tough now, and how this and that about stations in life, and all this shit. And I get it. And that might be truthful in a lot of scenarios. But there has never been a time in human history where

access to people, access to opportunity, access to capital, access to pretty much everything has been more available. I completely agree. I could not agree more. I do not know why people... Opportunity access to capital access to pretty much everything has been more available I don't know why people Back in the day there was six people like if you wanted to go do something It's like six decision-makers you want to get on the you want to get on TV back in the day? There's like three, you know, it's like why Howard Stern he's gotten salty over the years because podcasting Yeah, but it's because back in his day there was four or five people that said yes

You're on the air or not. Yeah now it's tomorrow You can yeah, someone wants to start one of these things they could do it tomorrow yeah you can literally download a can template on there's a bunch of different websites for free and then start overlaying artwork and to see what looks cool and we thought this looked cool and then we also the idea of we wanted to make summer in a can essentially and like this is on the original can it's a girl riding a bike there's a guy surfing in the background there's palm trees it's like a it's like the perfect beach day and i wanted you to look at the can after you take a sip and be like, okay, it feels like it takes you to a beach in Hawaii with palm trees. So that was like the

story behind it. And now with each can, the art is supposed to be kind of like an escape from your day. Like you crack open the can and take a sip, like where does it take you? And the art is a landscape of the flavor essentially. So that was the deeper meaning behind it. How much is 4.2% alcohol? Like what's in a glass of wine? What's in a beer? So a beer like a Bud Light, Coors Light is all 4 to 4.5%. So that's like the light version.

Our core products are 6%. So it's a bit stronger than a beer. But that's just like 1% more than a seltzer. Okay, here's the real question. Is everyone ready? Yes. Are you guys single i always do this with the guys on the podcast

no i'm i've just had my five-year anniversary oh happy anniversary thank you thank you oh no i i i also have a girlfriend okay okay no no no i haven't hesitated she's an absolute sweetheart no i hesitate i just think number four says it's been a five-year relationship i just said man time's ticking oh yeah time's ticking once you make faster decisions enforced that is true once the five-year mark gets hit it's like the clock in peter pan you guys are young you're heading up this fucking massive block in Peter Pan. It's in the alligator. Let me give you a young gentleman some word about it. Tell us about it. You guys are young. You're heading up this fucking massive

kombucha business. Their girlfriends hate you. I disagree. No, listen. Keep the girls on their toes. It's been five years. We've got to make sure we're certain here, Lauren. He's certain. It's five years. We could be talking about a full ten here. I don't know. I've never met your girlfriend. I don't know her. Maybe that is. She's a full ten.

Listen, your girlfriend's going to be writing a bad review on the show. No, thank God. But no, you guys are young guys. You guys need to take your time. This is a big decision. You're literally so dumb, for lack of a better word, because you said you wanted to marry me when you were 12. So this is so, you're pretending. But at 12, I didn't really know.

So then I had to get you back and I had to reassess. Yeah. And then we got engaged after that period of time. At five years, it's time to go. Two schools of thought here. She would be on your side here. And your advice is like shit. Well, listen, these guys, it's only two guys

who just fell off the back of a melon truck. These guys got shit going on. Yeah. You didn't fall out of the back of a melon truck. Back then, I was chancy back then. I didn't fall out of the back of a melon truck. Back then, I was chancy back then. I do think that people change a lot in their 20s. She was 21 when we started dating. I was 23. So, like, we're totally different people today. We'll be totally different people in a few years. You guys got time. Yeah, we got time.

What I always think about this stuff, again, like, who knows? People are going to get mad. But it's, like, this is a life, like, when I married Lauren, and I was like, okay, this is, like, now I'm in it. Like, I don't want to have to like second guess this later or like i'm second guessing you right now sure but i was like hey like if this is a lifetime thing you know people like always rush this thing you guys could do a business together right you could like that business relationship could be like god willing it's forever but five ten years that's quick yeah this thing this thing's

gonna last a long time so that's you're gonna get get kids in the mix. You got to be sure. Yeah. It is kind of like marriage. We lived together for the first year and a half. And it was kind of like marriage. We would, we spent a lot of time together. What did you guys fight about?

Tell us everything. Oh man. He would come in the, in my room at like one in the morning with like a spreadsheet and I'd be in bed with my girlfriend. I'd be like, yo,

like, can you not first? Can you not? Oh my God. He's listening. I have no boundaries second wait till tomorrow morning like he's like no no we gotta figure this out right now okay so i would get up and go figure it out if we were dedicated yeah that put a lot of pressure on that's literally my

my best friend weston michael will be feeding the baby a bottle in bed at nine o'clock at night and weston will run downstairs with a spreadsheet and michael's like bro like can we do this in the morning movie where the guy like screams like, Hey Johnny. And he smashes the, what is that movie again? I'm talking about with Jack Nicholson. Taylor's blacked out. Um, I'm just kidding. Anger management. That was later in life with Adam Sandler, dude. No, not that one. Where do you guys foresee the brand going? Like what is the next step? Is it to just really capture like you already have the kombucha, kombucha, say it one more time for me. Kombucha. Kombucha market or is it to branch out? Is it to do more products? I would love to know like what your roadmap is.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's very much focus and keep building the category. There's so much room for it to grow. Like it's a product that a lot of people want, but it's very much focus and keep building the category. There's so much room for it to grow. It's a product that a lot of people want, but it's so relatively new that the distribution is minimal. We have a different look at it in SoCal. SoCal is two or three years ahead of the rest of the country, I think, with hard kombucha. So we have a lot of work to do.

You go to Chicago and a lot of people are like, wait, what? Hard what? So we're still solving that awareness issue and the consumer education issue. And that's where some of these bigger partnerships like with Whitney Cummings, Diplo just joined the team, Cody Coe, Allie Krieger and Ashton Harris are two women's soccer team players on the national team that will be in the Olympics. So doing those types of partnerships and showing hard kombucha to kind of the more mainstream audience is our next 18 months.

That's got to be a good, I mean, you guys got to feel good about being in that position though, right? I mean, it's better to be as early as you are than trying to catch up with something like this that takes off. A hundred percent. Yeah. What about the gut? There's so many benefits to the gut.

Can you talk about the benefits of kombucha? Yeah. So just like kombucha in general, well, a lot of people talk about as probiotics, which is basically a beneficial bacteria to your gut. And you'll hear a lot of folks who, if they're on an antibiotic regimen afterwards, they'll take probiotics to try to restore some balance. But then like even past that, just think of what is kombucha. It's fermented tea and it's fermented either with sugar or honey. And so in our case, we use honey and the benefits of green tea alone, it's high in polyphenols, high in antioxidants. That's what you're drinking, right? So like a lot of alcohol today is literally just sugar water versus something that has a tea base that's high in all

those things I just mentioned, it's going to leave you feeling better. So a lot of the things that are in a non-alcohol kombucha are in alcohol kombucha. And a lot of people always ask, like, do the probiotics live? And they do. They diminish, but not to a significant degree. Yeah. And then the other nice thing about what we're doing is because we're using real juices and real flavorings, you're actually getting the benefit of that. So one of my favorite things is if you drink three blood orange mints, that's your daily vitamin C. Oh, I'm so about that.

So I often skip my daily vitamin C in anticipation of drinking three in the evening. But no, it's definitely a pretty incredible product. Why do you guys give all your employees a copy of the book, Let My People Go Surfing? Okay. So I'll take this one. I'm very inspired by Yvonne Chouinard. Or tell a quick side story about a company. Sure.

Okay. So we thought about starting a natural wetsuit company. And being surfers, we always think the surf industry is very big, but it's really not that big. And I went to Taiwan. I met with the manufacturing facility. And for the longest reasons, I decided not to do it. But while I was there, I was reading this book. And I remember thinking like, if we ever do pull it together and start a company,

like this is a blueprint for how you would want your company to be. Why? Tell us why. Okay. So I think that when you look at what Patagonia has done is they've scaled a company that's really, they're private. Everyone talks like they're a really successful company. And they actually make a product that's significantly more sustainable than a lot of their competitors. And they're big advocates for what's like significantly more sustainable than a lot of their competitors. And they're big advocates for what they believe in and whether or not people align with that. I do respect companies that like truly have a purpose. onto our team, then we can indoctrinate a more progressive culture that lets people truly excel

at the company and their personal lives. And so like they'll let my people go surfing policy at Juneshine, completely just stole from Patagonia, shamelessly stole, is that we don't have PTO. That doesn't work that well nowadays, whether you're a young guy or gal who just likes to rock climb all the time, or whether you're like a young parent and like nine to five doesn't work. And so in the beginning, we were too busy to write like an HR manual. So I was like, fuck it, let's just start getting a lot of people surfing books and I'll just write a note in them. So now we have really well developed people policies, but it's a tradition that we've kept on because we want people to continue to come into our company with that type of open mindset that

this is a different work environment where they can thrive compared to probably where they're coming from, especially if it's like Anheuser-Busch or Miller Coors, right? It's really a culture based on trust. And it's essentially that you're trusting your employees to get what they need to get done on their own time and we try to limit meetings and people if the waves are good you go surfing that's surfing is replaced with any sort of hobby or family thing or whatever they like to do their free time and it's it's not on our schedule it's on the comp as long as you get your work done you can kind of do what you want and that's that's the essence of of the culture that we created. And it's worked because we've hired the right people

and people, it's all based on trust. The second the trust breaks down, that culture doesn't work anymore. And it's hard, it can be hard to scale. Like Patagonia, what we love about them is they've scaled it into a huge business. Because it's easy to say that when you're small and then you get to be a big company

and you have to create these guidelines for people. But I mean, we have about a hundred people now and it's still working well, so. Yeah. What do you have to do when you fire someone i can't imagine you guys firing someone you guys both seem so cool and nice how are you firing someone or is it not you no it's us yeah like pretend like you're firing me no no i hate doing that i think the key with it is communication and communicating beforehand why Why like you're not just pulling the rug out. Exactly. Exactly. And that's, I think that's one of the things that we've learned is it's like, you want to communicate as early as you can that someone isn't meeting the

job requirements and that, and as long as you do that, it's okay. You get into trouble when you, when, when, when that breaks down. I had a guy, a good friend of mine that worked in the service industry. He, he ran restaurants in Miami and he like gave me advice early on. You were there. And it was, I think some of the smartest advice. And it was basically like, he says at the end of the day, like him as the manager, like in the beginning, everything is his fault if it's not communicated properly. So he brings somebody in, it's a stupid example, but he would say like, they're talking about sitting in the place state, the, or the, what is it? The place settings in, cause in the gourmet restaurant, he's like, okay, John, like when you set the place, it goes like this, this is where the fork goes or knife goes and this exactly how it is. And then manage the person and you know, the person,

maybe they didn't set it the right way. So you come back and say, Hey, John, just want to make sure like we talked about this. Like I was clear, you understood, like, this is how it is. Like you get it. And he goes, yes. And then the third time it's like, okay, well I was clear, you understood, like, this is how it is. Like you get it. Yes. And then the third time it's like, okay, well I was clear. You were, you told me I was clear. Like let's correct it. And then by the fourth time it's like, okay, now I have to let you go. Because what he, what he was telling me is like, there's a checklist of first is like making sure you're clear as a manager. Second is making sure that the person acknowledges that you were clear. And then third, if they've acknowledged it and you were clear and they're not, then it's like, okay, it's not the right fit

and we've got to part ways. It's not a personal thing at that point. It's like, and I think about that like extrapolating to management in every other area. Like maybe, you know,

we're talking about a simple place setting, but I think that's so important for, especially for young managers, like not just expecting people to know how to do things the way that you want them done or expect them to be done,

but like making sure they understand the way you've communicated it and that they've acknowledged that that's okay with them or that they get it and if not then like you as a manager is the fuck up yeah but i think after that you got to be able to make the decision like hey you're not right for the organization yeah yeah i think i i'm not i mean we're three years into this so we were relatively like like our company is still like a fly on an elephant's ass and i don't think we're three years into this. We were relatively like, like our company is still like a fly on an elephant's ass. And I don't think we're pros at this by any means. The one thing that we have learned

is that when you're growing really, really quickly, that not everyone grows that fast and that's okay. And I think when you realize that that's normal, it makes things like that easier. And I can't, I won't give like exact numbers, but like when we like tripled our revenue year over year, the company just changes dramatically. Some people thrive in that and they have like

a super growth spurt in their career. And some people are really happier at the size that they signed up for, not the size that you're at. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that's a great opportunity for them to part ways, take that experience and bring it to another company. And I always try to tell people like there's probably a day where I think Forrest is infinite in his skill set, but there's probably a day for me where I'm not the best CEO of DreamShine. God only I'd be like a stellar public company CEO. So I think that's just something that

that was like a fair, that was a great like unlock learning experience. I completely agree with you. And I think it goes back to the person being self-aware and you're so self-aware when you say that about, about being a CEO, you have to be self-aware with what you like and in tune. Like, are you someone who does better in a small work atmosphere? Or are you someone that can scale? Or are you someone that wants rules and structure? I think you really have to get real with what you like and what you want to do

so you can put yourself in the best case scenario. It's the hardest thing too, because when you're in a small team and everybody knows what's going on and everybody's communicating and then you get to like a mid-sized team and like maybe you'd know less and you're not all community,

then you get to a big team. and then there's very few people that know everything that's going on in the communications less like in some ways i don't think people feel slighted but they the loss of access or the loss of like knowing everything is hard on some people and that's okay because i think the bigger thing to talk through here is like understanding what type of operator or what type of employee you are in terms of, in terms of the size of organization, like maybe you're a startup guy, you know, maybe you're a CEO that can take a business from like one to 10 million. But once you start to get to that 50, a hundred, like maybe it's like, maybe it's somebody else. I don't know. But I don't think

a lot of people talk about this. They just think like, Oh, I started something. I got to be with it forever. Yeah. We say hire the right person for the right job at the right time and all three of those things can change every 6, 12, 18 months. I would hate to be a publicly traded company. I mean, a CEO of a publicly traded company. I would fucking lose.

I don't want to go and answer to a bunch of fucking people on a board and something. Yeah. Yeah. If I ever got to a company that size,

I'd just be like, listen guys, I'm out. I don't know. There's not a check. He wants to let my people go surfing. I wouldn't want to go.

People look at someone like a Jeff Bezos and like'm like oh that's the best i'm like do you know how much shit that guy's got to go through and how many people he's got to answer to and questioning him and this and that and advisories this and that and government fuck that i got other shit to do i obviously don't know him personally but i bet you that his most fun days were a long time ago at Amazon. Like from the perspective of working at the company, I feel like the most, at least I'm part of my own, I don't know this guy, I'm part of my own bias on him. I think the most fun time is the grind, the build. Then like once everything clicks, you're like. But I think that's why you see the guys like that, they, him and Elon both are trying to put people on Mars because that's like the new frontier.

They're like, okay, we solved this huge issue. For them to be excited, they're like, I literally have to send humanity to Mars. So I feel like that's probably still fun. Guys like that, it's like a dog chasing a car. They're the best entrepreneurs I think I've ever lived. But in terms of like personal, I mean, listen, they probably enjoy the chase

and the ambition and building like the crazy shit they're building. But in terms of like day-to-day interactions and having to deal with like government boards yeah so i was just this last weekend i was in the back country in south sierra there's just a couple fishing spots i like and we were camping out and it's like beautiful night and we're sleeping out we look over the stars and there's this thing and it looked like a star was shooting stars out vertically and at first I was like am I like sick like is something wrong with me and so I touched my buddy I was out there I was like Joe like do you see that I was afraid to ask you be

like no you're losing it using your marbles and then he's like yeah that's crazy and so I came back and and it like rattled me so much I was was like, I don't believe in like, I'm not fucking crazy. Did you have mushrooms? No, no. Did you have the blood orange mint mushroom? How many scoops? I want you to hear where I'm going with this. So do you want to know what?

Are we going to have UFOs? Let's go. I'll go wherever you guys want to go with this. But I just want to, so I'll go back to what you're saying do you want to know what this was it was SpaceX it was launching

60 satellites into the universe that's what it was which is like insane to think about but that that's what I saw that makes sense

isn't that crazy 60 if I'm out in the middle of the woods and I see that I think we're all freaking out 60 satellites

I thought that there was like mushrooms going on. No, no. I'm pretty. What are some tools that you have both in your toolbox that make you efficient? And that could mean a really great morning routine, a nighttime wind down. What are some little things that you go to every day to make you be such high performers? Yeah, I feel like Greg's better at this than I am. He's pretty regimented. I kind of just flow through.

I try and get in the water every day. I try and surf at least, if not every day, every other day. That definitely is the only place I leave my phone on the beach. And I used to run all of our socials. So if it's your job, you're on Instagram all day long every day. And I realized that was not healthy. So surfing is one of the only things I can do where I was like, you're on, if it's your job, you're on Instagram all day long, every day. And I realized that was not healthy. So surfing is like the, one of the only things I can do where I'm like, you literally can't bring your phone out there. People are trying to make these waterproof phones. I think it's the, no, leave that shit on the beach. So for me, it's just simple things.

I try and get in the water and then like a tech hack, there's this thing called superhuman and it's like an email inbox app that I use. That's actually, it sounds crazy, but it's, it's makes it so much more efficient and it just gives me exactly what I need to respond to and filters all the rest out. How does it know? There's like a, there's like a learning technology and it's all knowing it. I'm not sure what that one is, but it's called superhuman. And it essentially just, it's based on like how much time you spend on different types of emails and it studies your interactions with different people. So if it knows if Greg's emailing me, it's probably important. Other people, not as much, not that their emails aren't important, but it just serves me up like a curated batch of email every day. And I swear it saves me hours every day. It's

pretty cool. Michael's going to download that. I use this one called boomerang, but it's doesn't have the superhuman learning stuff. It's like I can, you know, prioritize or move things for later days or later. But it's just like a time thing. You can move things around, but I'm going to check that one out. That's cool.

What about you? I need to do a lot of physical activity. I'm a very impatient person. It's like my weakness for sure. I'm pretty open about it with especially with our leadership team. Try to tell them I'm working on it, but I'm impatient myself too. So I found that

when I got like a good regimen of recently, I've been training a lot of jujitsu. I'm not good at it. But I think that's because I'm so bad. It's like such an exhausting thing. I find that doing that try to do that a few times a week and supplement that with some other workouts. Now I'm pretty like hell bent on spending three days without my phone in the wilderness. often monthly is what i like to do and that helps me a lot because i i can i turn to like a pretty big workaholic but i don't know if this it used to be harder now we have such a good team it's not as chaotic is it as it once was i'm curious what you do learn you could do some of those tips i think like anything i think anything that can

take you away from this yeah or this is a good thing. You were reading books, hard books. I am obsessed with Wim Hof breath work. It's changed my life. I would highly recommend it. I've done a little bit of it. It's huge in the surf world. For big wave surfing, they all got into Wim Hof.

He's like the god of breath holding for surfing. I can see why. I can see why. I feel like if you do that before you hop in the ocean, why I think hopping in the ocean is so smart is because you get all the ions of the earth.

Like you're just absorbing all of that goodness in your feet. And people, like people don't realize if you're hungover and you go and walk on the beach without your shoes on,

it will take your hangover away. Yeah. Like it will. Especially if you dive in and it's freezing cold. Especially if you drink fucking moonshine and then you go and you do grounding and then

you do Wim Hof and then you get in the ocean. That's not true. That is a routine done. Lauren and I start like, um, I don't do anymore. Cause now we're in Austin and I, I used to have a gym and I was doing Muay Thai for a while. And I used to go get, it's like, you, you can't have a phone there. You just get your head kicked off. Then we started boxing together. Like, um, I used to do as a kid and we started training out here again. We haven't done it because of Texas, but I'm a trainer. But I think anything that just takes you away

from technology and makes you think about something completely different, or makes you engage in a way where you can't, like if you're surfing, you can't like, oh, I'm gonna check an email, or do jiu-jitsu, you can't be like, I'm gonna check this out. You gotta pay attention.

Anything that takes you away so you can't passively do it, you have to actively do it. I think calendar hygiene is also really important. A hundred. When you're small, it was just Greg and I. And it was, you know, now it's like, he's better. I'm really, you know, on my calendar. So am I.

Psycho. And if you're, as a creative, I got, he, this is great feedback that he gave me. And it was, all of a sudden, I didn't have any time to be creative. I was in meetings nine to five every day helping on my team. And I was like, wait, I need four hour blocks where it's literally just be creative and sit down and solve a creative problem. And it's so easy to just make yourself busy with shit all day that you don't actually get anything done. So now I just like. Just I block mine off.

It says F off time. That's awesome. Do not put anything during this time. You have to be very, very gnarly with your boundaries too. And as you grow, like I used to say yes to everything. And now I'm finding myself the way to get to the next step is to say no to basically everything. Some of the flack we get on this show is we'll talk about like calendar blocking or answering and here's, and it's a, and it's rightful flat. Here it is. People say easy for you to say, if you have your own business or your sets, your own schedule, but they work in companies where like, they don't have the luxury to be

like, I can't be, I can't go be creative or take a block or like respond to it. But I, I would challenge those people now, especially talking about companies like yours and others. Like if you're in a business that doesn't allow you to thrive to the best of your abilities, right? Like if you know you're a creative person, but you can't be because you're at the beck and call of emails or team meetings, or you're somebody that would operate more efficiently because you take time to get away from an inbox. Like I think we live in a time now, again, going back to opportunity where you can maybe question like, Hey, is this the right job for me? Right? Like if you can't be the most, you can't act in your most full potential

and know you're giving the best. Like, I know that's hard because people are like, Oh shit, like I can't just leave my job. Or you could just do what Tim Ferriss did in the four hour work week. He used to work nine to five at an insurance company. And what he would do is while everyone went to work at nine o'clock and did all their cold calls, he would wake up at seven, do all the cold calls. So by the time everyone got in the office, he had already gotten all the clients. You have to think outside the box like that because then you can have more time. Yes. But I think like what I'm saying is the flack we get is because people will blankly say,

well, I can't do that because of my certain job. I'm like, well, again, this is maybe give me more flack. Yeah, but I can't do this. It's like I can't do I can't do that. Is that the right job? Because I hear like cultures like yours and that's also culture like your media. You can always figure something out. There's other jobs. I think people just lock themselves

into these boxes that don't necessarily fit for them or their lifestyle. Does that make sense? Yeah, completely. 100%, yeah. I think it's, at least for me, like I feel like there's this rotating thing

where I'll be like stressed out about how I use my time and then I'll be like, I'll figure out like, I'll reorganize how I go about my day and I'll be like stressed out about how I use my time and then I'll be like I'll figure out like I'll reorganize how I go about my day and I'll be like yep I'm completely dialed and then I have like three months bliss then everything fucking breaks again so that's why like I'm always hesitant to say like this is what you should do because the things that work for me today I like I'm positive that I kind of have to reset my systems like

every nine months, maybe over 12 months. But I don't know. One thing that's really true for me since starting June Shine has been the outdoor thing. That's been a really good getaway. And reading before bed. So I don't sleep well if I don't read. Everyone has their own bed routine. Some people, it's just like doom scroll.

Yeah, doom scroll. Or just literally scrolling on your phone till you fall asleep. I do not do that. Or some people use substances or medicine, depending on whichever way you look at it. But when I read, for some reason, it helps me sleep.

Don't you think you dream better? I feel like I can't dream well if I don't read. I have crazy dreams. Yeah. Like, no, yeah. Yeah, you have to i mean not always good though sure but like they're but they're like but you dream well i don't know if they're good you won't be reading a playboy before bed yeah i don't know what you're reading before bed maybe i need to read what you're reading before bed like i like i feel like i if you go to bed reading something interesting could be anything like like you like dream better

or read a book about me bitch I feel like you like play shit in my head all night you never know what is a book a resource a podcast a Netflix series

that you both listen to or watch or read that provides you value that you would leave our audience with I've got a good book.

Go for it. It's called Ramping Your Brand by James Richardson. He's a PhD and it's all about, he studies, it's one of the most recent books I've found on brands and marketing. Like what makes, essentially he defines the skate ramp curve, which are brands that double revenue year over year over year. A lot of them fall off the curve after, you know, if you're 1 million, 2 million, 42 million, $4 million, $8 million.

The numbers get bigger and bigger and harder and harder to keep on that curve. And it kind of unlocks a few key attributes to those companies. And really it's about what is the key consumption attribute and outcome of your product? And I used to think it was really more about all the hippy-dippy stuff about kombucha.

And then I realized people drink Juneshine because it tastes great, it's refreshing. And those are the same reasons why people drink a Coors Light and a White Claws. They taste great and they're refreshing. So I think no matter what your product is, getting too far away from that attribute-outcome relationship, that's at the end of the day what you're selling or what you're giving people. So that was a huge unlock for us last year. We had gotten a little bit far away from our consumers so we actually spent a month just interviewing consumers live smart kind of like this on phone calls on zoom calls in person

asking just why why why why it's kind of like annoying for them at some point but yeah our consumers are awesome we learned so much about them i think after two years we're like wait we should be talking to our consumers every month. And now we have a team that just talks to our consumers. So yeah, it's called Ramping Your Brand. It's a great book. I'm literally buying it on Amazon. That sounds like an amazing book.

Ramping Your Brand. And it's cool because it talks about brands that you know that blew up in the last two years. Not these old case studies that are cool, but they're brands that you would know that you probably use and why they... I love it. I'm going to order. And by the way, anyone that says, oh, like I can't afford all these books. What I do is I buy them used on Amazon for $2 or I go to the library. So there's always a way to get this information. Yeah.

Never say you can't do something. I'll find a way. I love that. Yeah. Use books on Amazon. It's so cheap. Yeah, it's awesome. That's a good one.

There's a cool documentary that came out recently or not that recently called kids to ground which i know you're big on for it's pretty cool talks about how essentially soil itself could be like one of our biggest ways to sequester carbon it's kind of based i think loosely off the book the soil will save us by naomi khan which is pretty good but i think if i wish someone had given me two books before I started June Shine. One is Call Sign Chaos by Jim Mattis. The general? Yeah, it's amazing.

The guy, that guy is really impressive. I have that on my bookshelf. It's a white cover, right? Yeah. And it's his face. So yeah, our director of operations actually served under him. He's also an extraordinary guy

and told me to read the book and I did. And it was amazing. I think it's some good lessons on how to just value your people because that's the most important thing you have. And then Pour Your Heart Into It by Howard Schultz.

It's his story with Starbucks and I think he like really, it's just a great book. I think it's like, it's crazy that you always say like, you want to, how did people start these companies, these crazy successful companies like Starbucks? Well, like he just, he book. I think it's like, it's crazy that you always say like, you want to, how did people start these companies, these crazy successful companies like Starbucks?

Well, like you just, you wrote a book on it. You can just go, you can read it, which is kind of cool. Like people always say that like, I'll never know. Well, it's the, I think it's like, I'll go on like a tangent, but it's so frustrating because so like. Give him a little alcohol. But again, it goes back to like i understand pre and we almost went on this tangent you and i i tell we were about to go there yeah

on a tangent about like when people complain about access or being able to learn something or be able to fund like all these things like there was a real point in history where like if you were born in a certain station in life or at a certain circumstances like you had no chance like right it was defined. But what this podcast has taught me, what I've observed at books, all these things, there's not ever been a time in human history where more people have more opportunity

and access to information. And the fact that you carry around this little phone that has everything that's ever happened in recorded human history and that you can find it with a simple google search that means you don't even need to go to college just listen to podcasts and audible but i guarantee you like all these books something to that honestly i think there's i think the next big thing that will be disrupted is college right like the way people

learn like it's going to be disrupted these were the gatekeepers to information for the longest time, but like that's been broken the fuck open. Right. Like it doesn't exist that way anymore. Like kids aren't even in school. Well, I think they're in front of their computers. The thing for me,

college to me is like the best networking experience that we met in college. Like, I'm so happy I went to college. Otherwise we wouldn't have had Junetron, but I think there could be a more efficient way to recreate that same networking experience for kids that want to start businesses together instead of going to college just like make that a three-month thing i don't know what it is but yeah somebody told me michael for the next 30 years you have to stay in a you you get to be on the board of a traditional let's call harvard whatever stanford you have to you have

to run that company to success for the next 30 years i'd be like like, oh, fuck. That's not going to happen. The way that we interact and the way that we learn and the way that we engage in education, I'm not confident 30, 20, 30 years will be that way. Michael got a PhD in vaginas at school. That was important. I had to do some research. But you get what I'm saying?

I can't imagine that that would be... Right? If I told you guys, yeah, listen, it was not quite a PhD, but I did all right. And don't mean to brag when he married me. But you know, but don't you agree? Like the way that, I mean, especially. My vagina tastes like a blood orange mint. Yeah.

You take care of it. Actually, I want to do, I do want to say something. Did you know that pineapple makes you taste good down there? This should be the next campaign. You and Woo should team up, okay? This is my idea. Woo is our lube company. You guys should team up and talk about how pineapple is good for your vagina health and penis health.

It makes you taste good. So all you have to do is use some Woo for coconut oil lube and then drink a June shine pineapple orange. It's actually a good I like it. Okay, everyone, before we go, Taylor, turn your mic on because you're included. I would love for everyone to say their favorite flavor of June shine. I'm going to start with Michael. Well, shit.

No, I had the blood orange. I've had the strawberry. Let me try the I got the blueberry here in front of me. I'm going to crack this one open. This is our best seller too, the midnight. Yeah, you got to try the midnight one too. What are you going with? Well, so far the blood orange mint's the best, but maybe because I like more calories. I don't know.

Okay. Possible. You guys tell us your favorite flavors. You can't be like, they're all my favorite. You have to pick one. I'll take a stand. Okay, take a stand take a stand Blood Orange

no I think Blood Orange still might be my jam Blood Orange has been my favorite like all time okay but

Grapefruit Paloma which we just put out is my new favorite so I'm not picking I'm not picking two just to be clear I'm just saying it used to be

Blood Orange now it's Grapefruit Paloma I'm going with the OG Midnight Painkiller. It's like a tropical tiki cocktail. Okay. This one's good. Of course your mic's not on. What are you doing?

Has your mic ever been on in the history of the show? My favorite. The black one's your favorite. Okay. My favorite 100% used to be the blood orange mint. But today I love the blood orange mint. Let me try that one before I... But the grapefruit Paloma is damn good. I also think it's just

like fitting with my Instagram feed. So maybe I'm like... I'm just loving it because of that too. But you guys, I think our audience will like the best. The blood orange mint, the grapefruit Paloma, or I'm going to say the strawberry watermelon because it's 100 calories and one gram

of sugar can we do a giveaway or can you not send this anywhere we can do a giveaway yeah oh can we do a code too yeah we we sell online in 45 states now amazing yeah we can do it okay a code skinny right yeah let's do code skinny yeah code skinny for 20 off and then let's do a giveaway all you guys have to do is follow at juneshine.co on Instagram, and then tell us your favorite part of this episode on my Instagram at Lauren Bostic. And we will send you a bunch of goodies, some merch, and also the varietal packs, which come with all of our favorites. Okay. All right. Where can we find you guys and the brand? Yeah. So we just opened our official flagship location in Santa Monica. So if you're in LA,

come by. It's on Main Street. And then you can find us flagship location in Santa Monica. So if you're in LA, come by. It's on Main Street. And then you can find us in stores in 30 states. We just launched Variety Packs and Trader Joe's, Costco, and Target in LA and San Diego, soon to be nationwide. Ralph's, Vaughn's, Whole Foods, Sprouts. We're in Whole Foods in 30 states. So Whole Foods is the best chance if you're across the country. Well, listen, you young man.

At juneshine.co on Instagram. We've done a couple of these shows and sometimes you meet some people that are inevitable forces. I think that's you too. Congratulations on all the success. It's not going to stop. Thank you. Don't forget about us little people when you make sure the big leagues. I do have to say too, the buzz

is great. It's really light. It's refreshing. It doesn't feel heavy. It's mellow. It doesn't feel like you're going to be hung over. I'm a huge fan of your brand. Come back anytime. Thank you guys so much. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. Do you want to win a gift card for Juneshine? You know you want to try the blood orange mint. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram at Lauren Bostic and make sure you've rated and reviewed the show. If the show has brought you any kind of value, we really appreciate it. It takes five seconds and it helps us to grow

the community. And with that, we will be back soon with a fire episode. It's one of my favorite episodes that is coming out next. So stay tuned. you