The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - If You Find This Conversation Uncomfortable... It's For You. Featuring Topsie VandenBosch

Episode Date: July 10, 2020

#280: On this episode we are joined by Topsie VandenBosch. Topsie is a mindset coach committed to helping female entrepreneurs who are struggling with toxic thought patterns, negative thoughts, and beliefs. On today's episode we discuss how to be anti-racist, how to invite others into hard conversations, how to listen and learn from another persons experience, and how to educate yourself to be a better person. We also discuss mindset for entrepreneurs and individuals looking to improve their circumstances and break through mental walls.  To connect with Topsie Vandenbosch click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by Each & Every Each & Every’s gender-inclusive deodorant is formulated for sensitive skin–made without aluminum, parabens, baking soda, alcohol, and synthetic fragrances. With just 6 simple ingredients (plus essential oils), Each & Every uses natural ingredients like coconut oil and Dead Sea salt that work together to reduce body odor. Try it risk free with a 30 day money back guarantee and receive 30% off your first purchase by visiting eachandevery.com/skinny and using promo code skinny.  This episode is brought to you by Daily Harvest Daily Harvest is a life saver. They help you stock your home with clean, delicious food that’s built on real fruits and vegetables. They’re farm-frozen to lock in peak nutrients and taste. With Daily Harvest there’s tons of options for anytime of day, from Smoothies, to Harvest Bowls, Flatbreads and more. And The best part? It’s ready to enjoy in minutes. Keep it simple this summer with Daily Harvest. Go to www.dailyharvest.com and enter promo code SKINNY to get twenty-five dollars off your first box!  The episode is brought to you by Embark The Embark Dog DNA Test Kit is the most comprehensive kit on the market, looking at over350 breeds, types, and varieties and 175 genetic health conditions, to help you best care for your pup this summer, Embark has a limited time offer just for our listeners! Go to www.embarkvet.com now and use Promo code SKINNY to get $50 off your Dog Breed and Health kit.  Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Aha! Sometimes people don't hear the little people until you actually say something out loud and not all the hush hush behind closed doors because I think that that's why systematic racism and race and just systemic racism has been rampant in our culture since the beginning of time is because there's a lot of behind the scenes discussions about things and nothing's really brought to the light. Made it to Friday, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. Back in the studio, feeling good. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Topsy Vandenbosch. On this episode, we are diving into a lot of topics that have been a long time coming on this

show, talking about systematic racism, talking about prejudice in the office space, talking about how to be woke or learning how to be woke. For those of you that are new to the show, my name is Michael Bostic. I'm a serial entrepreneur and brand builder, most recently the CEO of the Dear Media Podcast Network. And to my right, not across from me because we're in the studio, my wife, my wife, my rock. Your rock? I don't know. Just introduce yourself. I'm Lauren Everett, the creator of The Skinny Confidential. I'm so excited for this episode. Topsy is a fucking badass. You guys are going to be obsessed with her. I actually met her on Instagram.

She's a mind coach. She works with female entrepreneurs who are struggling with toxic thought patterns, negative thoughts, and beliefs that prevent them from showing up and making bank in their business. And I cried on this episode. And he cried. Like a little bitch. Yeah, you cried. That was cute. It's okay, Lauren. It's okay to be vulnerable once in a while.

Yeah, I like that. I think that's really cute. Am I going to get some later? Don't make me cry again. Don't make me cry again. I'll be crying for a different reason. So guys, stay tuned. Listen to why I cried. Listen to why my wife just finds me so incredibly irresistible. Okay. Like I said, Topsy is a mindset coach. She's a clinical therapist, and she's also true crime obsessed. And she is going to drop some major realness on this episode. With that, let's welcome the incredible, beautiful, gorgeous Topsy to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the skinny confidential him and her. It's nice to be back in the studio

with Taylor because you never know if he's actually doing his work or if he's watching porn masturbating. Don't get me in trouble. We're already trying to get the soft opening of the office. We're taking listen, listen, we're taking the proper precautions, but I don't don't he's not watching porn back there. He's he's he's social distancing he's sanitizing he's wearing masks yeah I don't know about that so dead yeah and if he's not we can't see him okay so we have Topsy in studio I was just gonna tell Michael this off air but I guess we'll talk about it I made her put it on air I love it okay so how we met I put that in quotes we were talking over Instagram before everything that went down with Black Lives Matter for sure and when that all went down you went on your story

and you were talking to the camera about multiple different things and you were talking about creators who you think can do better yes and in one of them you tagged me yeah and so I went to watch it and I, she's right. We can totally do better. We can definitely have more diverse guests on the show, on the blog. Yeah. And just really agreed with you. Yeah.

So I messaged you. And I said, I think I said, you're right. Or I don't know. You did. You were like, this is really, this is really, this is good feedback. Yeah. Because that was my whole point was to create like conversation and not to like block it off. Because I do think when it comes to anti-racism education and like,

especially for your listeners who are not familiar, there's a method of calling out racism in a way where number one, it invites people into a conversation. So that can be calling out, but creating actual steps like, hey, here's what you could do to improve. There's calling in where I don't recommend that people of color or black people feel like they have to call people in who are demonstrating racist behaviors. But I think that calling in could be reserved maybe for white allies who are calling out other white allies like, hey, let's have a conversation. How come you did that? Why did you think that that was okay? So that's like calling in. So my method is a mixture of both, but I really want to create conversation because I think that sometimes people don't know unless they're, I hate to say it that way because I love you guys.

I fuck with your podcast, but unfortunately, sometimes people don't hear the little people until you actually say something out loud and not all the hush hush behind closed doors. Because I think that that's why systematic racism and race and just systemic racism has been rampant in our culture since the beginning of time is because there's a lot of behind the scenes discussions about things and nothing's really brought to the light. All of this is based on ignorance. People are ignorant. We are ignorant as a people. We don't know. And two, people get uncomfortable at things they're ignorant about, and they get uncomfortable

making other people uncomfortable. So they think, okay, I'm not going to address it and talk about it because they don't. And so I think there's a... Here's what I've exhibited here or what I've observed throughout this whole process. I choose to believe that the majority of the people in this country are well-intentioned good people. There is a handful. And I think we'd say that's the minority.

There's a handful of people that are not well-intentioned people and bad people. And those people should be called out and there should be light shed on them and we should know about it. But the majority of people I choose to believe are well-intentioned, but scared to have hard conversations. And so what happens is the conversations don't happen. And what we think is like, okay, since we're not, we don't believe, and I would say we are just saying as okay, since we're not, we don't believe, I'm not going to say we, I'm just saying as a people believe we're not contributing to a problem. And by not contributing to a problem as we see it, we're not part of it. But part of the problem is that people are unwilling to have these conversations. So in a way they are contributing to the problem.

100%. First of all, the pitch you sent in was incredible. Well, thank you. We haven't got there yet. Hold on one second. Lauren's like, wait. We can touch on it. But I think what I realized through this process is what I believe the power of

this show is and what Lauren and I try to do well and of course can do better at is have conversations and share these conversations with people that want to listen. For sure. It's not necessarily like what Lauren and I do on this show most of the time is learn. Right. We talk to people like you and we learn. And so, and hopefully the listeners get a benefit of that learning and hopefully what these type of things do is they start conversations and get people more comfortable around them so i agree so you started the

conversation on instagram story i responded and i when i responded i was very peaceful like oh you were yeah not to you i mean i felt very peaceful yeah i could sense it yeah and i we kind of talked over instagram story and then i went and looked at your page and you've got all this cool shit going on which we're going to get into life coaching all this amazing stuff that's motivational inspirational and then i said listen send me your pitch yep and you can talk about that because the pitch was insane oh thank you we've ever gotten through the show. Oh, get out. Tell us about the pitch. You guys have gotten so many good pitches. We're going to back off the mic and talk about the pitch.

Paul Fisher had a good pitch. I think that's his. That's true. He had a really good pitch. I remember that episode. And I remember being like, I need to do whatever he did. You had a great pitch. So tell us about how you put that together and what your vibe was with that.

Creating the pitch. Oh, man. I was like, what do I want people to hear from me on this podcast? Because I think for many of my black women who I work with, they have never heard of this podcast or if they do go to listen to it, they're like, I don't know if I'm gonna have anything in common with this like, you know,

blonde girl and her white man. Like what kinds of stories could they have that I could relate to? And I think that that comes from a place of privilege, whether you realize it or not, even though you guys are doing really good work in this world. And I love the, like, every single interview is like a knock out the park. And there's always really good conversation. However, is it relatable?

Like, I really think about it from the lens of the people that I grew up with. If I can't refer them to this podcast, you know, like this is how it'll tangibly help you in your career or whatever. Like they're going to look at the two people on the picture and be like, all right, I'm already triggered. First thing they're going to think is, man, that's a handsome man.

Exactly. Lauren's so over it. No, but I fully get it. I mean, you know, the brand is built in a way that like it was built off the skinny confidential and it's light and it's pink. And like, listen, I didn't have a lot of input in putting myself on a bright pink cover up. But I get it. Like it looks a certain way, even in a weird way, like with some men.

Like I think I was talking to a friend yesterday and I was like, like men of all backgrounds could listen and find some. For sure. But they look at that pink cover and they're like, this isn't for me. See? Yep. So how did you come up with this pitch and how can people out there do a similar type of pitch? Oh, this is really good. Because it was a fucking insane pitch.

Okay, thank you. I'll get back to it. Okay, so I'm being really humble here, but I'm really not a humble person. So let's just not do that, Tapsy. So the pitch, I was like, okay, so what do I want people to know? What do I want them to know about me? I want them to know that I'm not an anti-racism educator. I want them to know how I help six and seven figure female entrepreneurs and their businesses. But I also want black women to know that they belong here. They can take up space.

They can send in these types of pitches and they will be considered, right? So I want it to be that example because I know that pitches get lost. I know that. They get lost. You guys get a sea of like 800, 900 pitches. But I think what happens when it comes to guest selection, this is where I think some systemic or systematic racism kind of comes into play or like white supremacy because of the proximity you guys are to maybe people who are in my tax bracket or whatever, or my career, or my, like, you get limited as far as what stories you're hearing and how relatable are they to your current audience or the audience that wants to listen to you, but they don't, they don't hear

about, about a, you know, a West African immigrant, me, West African immigrant, who, you know, is the product of really educated parents and who made their way in America. But I was taught that I will always have to work harder than my white counterparts. And that's not something I've heard on your podcast before. But because I did grow up with a level of privilege within my own community, I understand and I have empathy and I get it. Oh, hello. I am just sitting in my sweatsuit smelling so good, which is rare for me because I haven't worn deodorant in a long time until I was recently introduced to each and every. We've discussed this on Instagram stories.

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I've tried every single thing. Nothing was working. So to actually have something that works is amazing. I can understand the founder's frustrations in the beginning. It goes on really, really smooth too. I think that's important. So it's not like chalky or sticky. And this is something that my husband, again, is just so happy about. It keeps me odor free all day long. You should also know it's vegan and cruelty-free. Visit eachandevery.com slash skinny and use promo code skinny for 30% off your first purchase. Note that that is not eligible to combine with other discounts or subscriptions. That's promo code skinny at eachandevery.com slash skinny for 30% off your first purchase. Try the ginger one and thank me later. Wow, that's a very like broad.

Well, I want to talk. I know. There's so many things I want to cover on this episode, but I want to learn more about a little bit about you. So you touch on your childhood a little bit. Let's get a little background. What was your childhood like? Where'd you grow up?

Like what was your background and how did you get into the space that you're in now? Yeah. So I grew up with a dad who's in higher level academia. So he's a assistant vice provost at Spelman College in Atlanta. And he had humble beginnings. He came to the US on scholarship, I believe, for his PhD. He went to Cornell.

And so we ended up winning the lottery and being able to immigrate here to the United States. So I came to the States when I was- Wait, you ended up winning the lottery. What does that mean? So winning the... So it's like a term for people who want to gain citizenship. Taylor's ex-girlfriend. Taylor, didn't she win? Here's my guarantee. It's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Turn your mic on, Taylor. You never have your mic on.

Okay. Go on. But it's like you basically get granted citizenship by just like a lottery type system. Yeah, basically like a lottery type system. And so I think I believe Cornell footed some of the bill or I'm guessing. I don't quite know how all of that works since they were sponsoring him because he was coming here to, he was coming there here to go to school there. And so I've lived in different states. I've lived in Maryland.

I grew up in Michigan mainly. We lived in New York. So we moved around quite a bit, but my dad was always in Maryland. I grew up in Michigan, mainly. We lived in New York. So we moved around quite a bit, but my dad was always in academia. My mom, I believe she started working in the States because the way it works, again, the educational system's different here than there. So they were already pretty educated, but in order to come to the States, oftentimes as an immigrant, you have to go back to school, which it's just so insulting, but they kind of look at the educational system and say, you're not up to our standards. And so that's just kind of how it is. And so my mom already had her bachelor's degree, but she ended up getting her master's degree here in social work. And so I grew up in a very, I was very aware of many things

growing up that I think a lot of people may not have been exposed to, you know? And I think just being an African immigrant was hard. So much racism. Go deeper there. What were you exposed to that you don't think people... Racism, a lot. Give me an example. Yeah, I'll give an example. Oh my gosh, teasing about my hair, my hair texture. I remember for a long time, it took me a long time to really be proud of being African. In fact, I remember growing up, I really wanted to avoid the conversations of where I'm from because my name was so different. My legal first name is Tamey Tope. And so, God's blessing is upon you. And so, I remember never... So, I started going by Topsy very young and I loved it, to be be honest growing up because it just

I ended up avoiding so many stupid conversations about my name but Topsy still got shit so it's like no matter what it didn't matter and so growing up I was teased a lot oh my god it was just not so a lot of racism a lot of overt and covert racism, you know, like, did you grow up on trees? And these were always white kids. Always. They were always white kids. So if there is someone out there that's young, that's listening to this, that's experiencing racism like you did when you were little, what would you what are your tools in your toolbox? Yeah, I think what I did growing up, this sounds so shitty, but I feel like as black people, we've had to develop a very thick skin. And I would definitely say to really rely on your support systems, know who you are, get educated about your culture and just fall in love with it as much as you can. It's hard shit.

It's really hard. I think something that was helpful for me is that, you know, I just I just tried to think about the fact that they have never been exposed to anything. And so that's why they feel like it's okay to tease people and make fun of their hair. But that shit never went away. I mean, when I got older, I mean, I've experienced discrimination because of hairstyles. You know, this isn't professional for the workplace. These, this, this red, these red braids. Oh, my God. Like, I would have been so mortified in the workplace. These, this, this red, these red braids, oh my God,

like I would have been so mortified in the corporate world to wear this. In some corporate settings, they still don't respect black hair, black texture. It's just, it's bizarre. It's wild. I think I'm opening my eyes so big because I just, I can't comprehend that. But when I hear the story, I'm like, immediately I'm like, okay, I need to educate myself more because just like Michael said earlier, because I don't know that I buy into it. I think that there are people who have well-meaning intentions, but intentions don't have shit to do with the impact, right? And so I think even as white people shutting down conversations in regards to white privilege, right? Does that mean that you're a human that wants to do the right thing or are you afraid to really realize what exactly you've benefited benefited from it's not about being ashamed of

being white but what have you benefited from yeah yeah i did this this like small bit i don't have a big social phone but i did a video on my account and they're like the the basic point of the video and we can talk about this in a second with like all these people coming out with statements and company writing prps and all that's like which is complete horseshit in my opinion. I'm going to get in trouble for saying that some of my partners are going to come in and yell at me, whatever. But here's the thing. Per usual. I'm going to get in trouble for that per usual. But here's the thing. I, you know, I did this video and like the point of it was shut the fuck up for a second and listen to someone else's

perspective and story. And so like, for me, like, it's been a lot of like, I've been just observing. I haven't said a lot. I haven't taken like cutes, but I want to have these conversations because again, I think they're going to be the most impactful for this platform. But it's been about, okay, listening. And like you said, it's not necessarily someone's fault for the privilege that you don't know. You don't choose the circumstances you're born in, but it can be your fault if you're unwilling to listen and learn to something new. Agree.

If you're not willing to grow and evolve and learn and listen, like then you are a big part of the problem. Exactly. You can't just shut things down. Yeah. How you go about that and what you take away, like that's a process. Agree. No person of privilege is going to learn this in a month's time or a week's time.

Like this is something that you have to practice in your daily life. It is. Constantly. It is. It is. And my husband's white. And so even for him, I mean, he's always been down for the cause, you know, but he's had to.

Oh, my God. I remember a few years ago, Dear White People came out on Netflix and I was like, let's watch it. He was so triggered. I mean, steam because he's like, this is divisive. And I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. Did I marry a Trumper?

Like, what just happened? I know you guys don't talk about politics but i just remember being like what the fuck why does this trigger you so much i thought that you've gotten desensitized and gotten educated on a lot of this shit and because it's because it calls us out and that's what it is 100 he was like but why does it need to be dear what oh he's gonna he's gonna lose his shit when he hears me out him like this but i love love him to death and he's great. I mean, he gets it now. But I mean. How have you taken it upon yourself with everything that's going on

to have conversation with him? Oh, my God. That's actually been hard. It was really hard. But I'm like, I'm his wife and I married him because I know he's woke as fuck. I know he cares about me. It's not just for optics or anything like that. You know, he's always been for the culture and he's always given back to the culture and he's just an incredible human. So I just felt like it was my responsibility to talk to him and he respects me. And so he listened. And now he's like, holy shit, I can't believe some of the stuff that I used to say and think. And he's a doctor. So I told him, like, you have a whole nother level of privilege. You're a primary care doctor.

Can you give me an example, maybe because, you know, I like details. I know you do. Of what's something he thought that now has changed or can you not think of something else? So there's a lot of talk right now, which is cool, about anti-racism. And I think it confuses a lot of people because they're like, what are you talking about? I'm not racist. So if I'm not racist, why do I need anti-racism education? And the reason for that is, so my husband, he thought he, because he wasn't racist, that was enough. So he's like, what are you talking about this anti? So that was the first time he's ever, and I realized like, I've just taken it for granted that I didn't think white people gave

a fuck about this type of stuff. So I never talked about it. So he's like, what is it? And I'm like, anti-racism education is the practice of being an actual, like being on the journey of being an ally. Like, are you actively speaking out? Are you donating? Are you divesting into, you know, black businesses? Like, what are you doing in order to, because this is a crisis in America. Black bodies are being murdered on the street. So it's not enough to just be not racist. You have to be anti-racist. And that's a practice.

So I think a lot of white people and white companies are waking up to bullshit. Well, I'll tell you personally, like personally. Yeah. And maybe some people disagree with this. Lauren and I have had so many different perspectives on this show. And honestly, in our personal life, I don't care if you're black, white, blue, green, it doesn't, I don't see it. And I, and you know, gay, straight, trans, it doesn't matter. And so because we think like that, and maybe people will say, you know, you don't, but like, because like I'm telling you, we think like that, we assume, oh, we're not part of the problem. We

actually are like the good guys. and it wasn't like the thing that i'm grateful for with this event is like it got me to realize like wait a minute just because like i choose to not like the way i'll hire the way i'll get shows like i'm not looking at anything i'm just like is this a talented person person but then now i've realized like okay as somebody that's leading a company a forward-facing company that's media that can change narratives yeah not only do i have to think about this i have to be proactive about it. So most of the things I'm doing in these interviews, and we could talk about some of these companies and statements right now, which will be controversial, but every interview I've been doing lately, I'm not participating in cancel culture.

I'm not going on apology tour. Judge me by my actions in six months to a year and see what Dear Media does and what I do. Because that to me is much more interesting. Where like these companies that go and they're like, here my my statement that's written by somebody's like all of us as consumers like from every background look at this i'm like what the fuck is this i would love to know your your opinion but listen it's like who the fuck wrote this and it just doesn't feel so like for me i'm like i will be your face and we'll just go do something yeah and i want to ask from your perspective and again this may get me in trouble when you see statements like that you see like how do you feel about like you're like you're rolling your eyes

like that oh my god i it like i'm like can we like stop being reactive like i get it on one hand i really like this is why i like i love your brand is because you guys aren't going to get bullied into doing anything that you don't like you're going to think it through you're going to educate yourself i'm not posting a blog you're very you're very strategic and i love that if i don't know why i'm posting a black square i'm not going to post it because everyone's doing it i actually want to go out and do the work and then like michael said talk to me in six months yeah i love that i love that and that's what i i wish that some of these because i understand saying like you know um we stand with black lives black lives matter i think that mattered because so many of us were looking for that.

But beyond that, it was like, do the work. Just do the work. We do want to know where you stand because we want to know where to spend our coin. But it's not a band-aid. It's not like I could do this. No, no, no. Exactly. Because we noticed that shit too.

Yes. It's not like I could put the statement up and put the black square and then go back to normal life. Which a lot of people did. My thing is like, I'm going to proactively choose to not do the short things i'm going to do the longer things and talk to me in six months to a year to five years like that's yes but like this wasn't like i'll just be transparent a lot of this just didn't pop up on my personal radar because of my privilege because yeah and now that it has i'm like okay so now you know right that's the that's the whole

point and this is where I think people in this country should reserve some space for people if you see them trying. Because what I don't like, and I did a Facebook, Instagram live with a guy I'm friends with. And we talked about like, make sure like if people are trying

that you acknowledge the trying and that you support them and you don't just shut them down and attack. Because there's a lot of attacking going on right now. And then it's like, then you're scared. I agree. I think it is a double-ed going on right now. There is. Then you're scared. I agree. I think it is a double edged sword. I do have, I hear you though.

And I have empathy and I think it's because of what I do. I have a lot of empathy and I hold a lot of space for people. So I understand that it's important to encourage people if they're trying. I do that. I believe in that. However, it's another perspective. I think another perspective is, I think for so long, we have had to dance around topics and just like fucking tap dance all the goddamn time. So

I'm like, it's okay if white folks have to play double dutch, you might get some black people or people are a person of color that's like completely not with it. Like they're like, you know what, do what you want to do. Do the work. I'm going to cut you and cut you when you're down because our lives are like, we're going through shit. So I don't have the energy or the space to coddle you on your journey. But then there will be some people who are like, because everyone's personality is different, right? Black people are not a monolith. So then you're going to get some people who are like me that are like, I get it. I'm married to a white husband. I've had to have patience with his

ass. So I can offer that to other people who I see are continuously trying, you know? So it's just another perspective that black people are like, you know what? Like we're, we're fucking sick and tired. Yeah. You know, I guess to clarify what I'm saying is like, I'm willing to, like when I say I'm not participating in cancel culture, apologies, I'm willing to take the short-term punches for people being like, Hey, fuck this guy. He's not with it. Right. But what I'm saying is let's see what happens in six months. And I'm willing to, in the short term, not look the best, but in the long term, do the right thing. For sure. Yeah. Yep. And that's what it's about. Okay. I'm going to tell you about Daily Harvest. You have seen it all over my Instagram stories. Now, this is like the best invention ever. Basically, you open the door.

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Dailyharvest.com and try the strawberry peach one. You will not be sorry. How did you feel during that whole week? What does it feel like? It was a fog. My account went viral. My account went viral, which was not my intention. I just wanted to speak out about shit that I felt. I felt like I had been muzzled for fucking years. And it was like the muzzle was off. I was saying whatever the fuck I felt, but I thought about everything I said. Because I was saying whatever the fuck I felt, but I thought about everything I said. Because I believe that you can speak from emotion and still be very

strategic. So I had a lot of emotion, but I knew how to channel it in the right way. And so I felt like that week, it was just a fucking fog. I'm connecting with people that I've always supported their platforms, whether it was a podcast, whether it was a book or whatever. fog. Like I'm connecting with people that I've always like, I've always, you know, supported their platforms, whether it was a podcast, whether it was a book or whatever. But I'm saying like what it is I've always wanted to say, and now they're listening. And it was very surreal, very bizarre. My account gained so much traction, which was not the point. And it was just like, really? Like, is this for real though? Like, you know, it was just, really like is this for real though like you know it was just a it was a very weird feeling where it's where it's like companies and people were listening and

wanting me on their podcast and and it was like is this for real though like I don't want to be your token I have a friend that called me yeah when all this was going on okay and she says you you need to get more diverse people on your podcast. And I go, hold on. I am not just going to do something to check a box. So I'm just going to be honest. If your pitch was not something that I think the audience would have gained value, I would have said, I love you as a listener. You're amazing.

Right. But this just isn't a fit. As you should. And I think that there was that respect. Yeah. I have a question just going back to what we were talking about. Do you feel now that there's weight lifted off your shoulders because of that cathartic sort of transformational week? Or do you feel like things are going back to normal?

How do you feel right now? I think I feel a lot settled in. I feel like I've said a lot of what I wanted to say. And now I'm just going back in to do the work like I've always been. So I can't say that the fog got lifted, but I just learned how to just maneuver through these weird times. We're just in a weird time. And I think I'm just going to have to be very selective as to what companies I decide to work with or very selective as to, you know, what companies I decide to work with or, you know, what podcasts I decide to go on, what books I read, what businesses I buy from. I think it's just part of the Black experience is just figuring out how to

make sure that your works and who you are and what you stand for is respected, you know? Yeah. A lot of our audience um messaged us and messaged me during all this and said can you please have someone come on to educate us and i started listening to all these different podcasts and reading and i i heard it's not your job to educate us can you speak on that yeah if you agree or you don't agree i do let me call out a bunch of white women right now because i get the most shit from the white women what the fuck is going on with these white women i don't know am i allowed to say that i don't know no you're allowed to say that you're white shit

listen i'll do like a video i'm like okay like this is just listening and then like i get attacked by the white women and i think it's probably because of that passion of them like just waking up and realizing but i also think there's another side to it too where I remember observing on Jenna Kutcher's platform there was a lot of people who were going after her and I noticed that there was a lot more white women but I also think it was her following her following they're very white and so I think that it's just an interesting phenomenon um I feel like you had a question the education oh yeah yeah yeah do i think you agree it's it's it's it's your job to educate us no do you agree it's not your job it's not my job yes i i i do believe that it's on the onus any black person's job yeah i think it's on

there's so many resources out there there's so many incredible anti-racism educators who have been doing this work for a long time. And I think that that's also why there are many black people that are just fucking tired is because we've been like, we've been here, you know, we've, we like generations of us have experienced, you know, generations of people who have, who have family members who were in the slave trade, right? Chattel slavery is real and it still affects us today. The effects of it is just, it's just heartbreaking. So I think that white people have the opportunity, the resource, the wherewithal to be able to do their own research, look up anti-racism educators and start from there. There are so many amazing black businesses you can invest in.

It's always been there. So we're not here to spoon feed you. If I choose to educate, that's because I want to, but it's not because I have to. So I think that that's something that's going to be important for your listeners to know. When we were talking, I was thinking just about that. One time I got interested in salt

because my dad told me that at one point it was worth more than gold. And I was a kid and I was like, what the fuck? Salt. And like, I didn't like, this sounds really stupid and off topic, but you know, I went onto this soul searching mission to like learn about salt and read these, all these history books about salt. And I think that like in anyone, in any field, in any area, if you want to learn something, it's your responsibility to put it upon yourself to go and do the research and learn. Agree. And in any aspect, and I think this attitude of like, okay, like I'll learn,

but I'm going to put the burden on someone else to teach me. It's like, no asshole, like you go figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. You know, go figure it out. Yeah, and you'll be fine. Yes. And I think that this is something else too. I was talking to my friend the other day.

I was like, I also think that it's very strange that a lot of white people are not used to being called out on stuff and being corrected and being wrong. And also let's even go further. Taking accountability. Taking accountability is a good one. I'm going to take myself at an outside perspective. A lot of influencers aren't used to being called out either. They're used to being saying oh my god your eyebrows are so great your skin's so dewy i think when we were going through that that week specifically i'm using that week for sure i was like this is an opportunity for me and all the influencers out there to exercise a muscle

that isn't used enough. Yeah, there we go. What do you think about that? Oh, I think that that I think that it's so I think being able to use your platform in a way that amplifies black voices is always the vibe. But I just don't think it's happened enough. Right. Like I don't I follow a lot of black influencers and I follow a lot of white influencers.

I don't see amplification of black voices happening on those platforms. I agree with you. I just don't see it. I agree with you. I think, I think collectively. Yes. Everyone can, can do better. Yeah.

I'm sick of saying do better. I get it. Yeah. Because it's like, I wish. What else can you say? Yeah. It's just the most layman's terms to say. Yeah.

So if someone's out there and they're listening and in you and they're a friend let's say they're a friend of yours i'm not saying it's your job to educate them but is there a direction that you could point them in in terms of how to get started yeah and is it maybe it's google i don't know you might say google google is dr googles is always good but i think i know an account that has been just amazing for me to follow. Rachel Cargill, she's an anti-racism educator. Layla Syed, I think Me and White Supremacy, I believe that's the name of the book. That's a really good book.

I would recommend also reading and doing research from the black perspective. There's a lot of anti-racism work that has been done by white people, but I think it's really important to listen to the actual voices. It's not that they didn't have good things to say because they do. There's one that got really, that did really well on the bestsellers list, the New York Times. I believe it's called White Fragility by Robin DiAngelo. And that's one that I think, I don't think it's bad to read it. I think it had amazing points. And I think it's- I've seen some controversy on the black community. I've seen some black women really like it, some don't.

Some don't. And some don't because they're like, what are you doing with that income that you're getting from that book? Are you investing it back into the black community or are you using it to profit your pockets that contributes to systemic racism and dismantling white supremacy? What are you doing with the profits? So I think that's where there's a lot of distrust, where it's like, are you profiting off of our pain and our trauma? And that's not your intention, but does that end up being the impact? I haven't been worrying about the bottom line of the company or the listeners of this show. I've been staying up at night, not even thinking about our child as much, worrying about the exact bottom line of the company or the listeners of this show. I've been staying up at night, not even thinking about our child as much. Worrying about the exact DNA of our

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Well, I want to get your thoughts on a few things because you're somebody obviously that you coach people and you have a business online. Like we're all online. And I think there's like, here's what I your thoughts on a few things. Because you're somebody, obviously, that you coach people. Yeah. And you have a business online. Like, we're all online. Yep. And I think there's a, like, here's what I've thought about a lot. I think there's a time for reaction. Yes. And there's a time for thoughtful planning.

I agree. And so, obviously, with the death we saw of George Floyd, like, that was a good time for reaction. Yes. Like, what we saw the country react to and how people took to the streets. And how they, like, that was appropriate reaction to get a conversation started where i was disappointed on some level with the online community is they carried that reaction through with more reaction reaction reaction and not thoughtfulness about what they were putting out what type of content how they were framing a conversation how they're from and and like the reason it's taken some time like lauren and i address it briefly yeah and the reason

it took time to start having these conversations is we wanted to be very thoughtful about the presentation that a platform of this size presents to the world. Absolutely. And I wish more content creators or brands or people in the space

would say, okay, don't worry about your short-term bottom dollar like revenue, you're front-facing that right now. Yep. Say your piece quickly, but then really be thoughtful about the way you start a

narrative or change a conversation or get people involved. I have a real problem with people that are just like constantly reactionary. And I don't think it's, I think the intention is not necessarily wrong, but I also don't think the intention is right. I think there's a little bit of like better save my ass, better also get in, better also, like it's a little bit all of us. And I wanted to kind of get your take on that as you coach people i'm like i do i think yeah i think that i i really like the concept of saying something but then i think to continue to educate yourself before you say further like you you're gonna fuck up that's the one thing i think white people need to know is like on this journey of to being an anti-racist you are going to fuck up. That's the one thing I think white people need to know is like on this journey of to being an anti-racist, you are going to fuck up sometimes big time.

So I was a part of a Facebook group and they really fucked it up because there was someone that was a part of the group that was asked by the group leaders, the podcast hosts. They were asked to speak on, I believe believe to educate their audience on the effects of racism i believe so it was a it was a listener but she was also um acquaintances as well of the of the podcast um hosts and so the podcast host requested this of a black woman to educate their primarily white audience on racism and then the white women asked to be compensated for having... No, the black woman asked to be compensated for educating the white audience. Sorry. Yes.

And so the podcast host said, no, we don't do that. And we want to be thoughtful as to who we work with in that way. That wasn't a part of the initial agreement was you get you to get paid so let's just call it good and so the black woman posted the emails on ig and was basically like this is fucked up this is fucked up you want me to educate your audience on racism and when i asked to be compensated for my emotional labor you tell me no okay what are some other and she had suggested to the podcast host what are some other ways so that's okay that you don't like funds or anything anything she was like what about in kind what about

just anything and they said no what is in kind oh yeah like maybe you know whatever yeah like i don't know like donating the ad that you had in the podcast. Something like that. Yeah, and they still said no. So I thought that that was problematic because it's like, if you want to hire Black people to educate your audience in any capacity, whether it's podcast or whatever,

they deserve to be compensated. I didn't ask for compensation from this because I'm not an anti-racism educator, but there are people who are being asked, influencers, people with platforms who are being asked influencers, people with platforms that are being asked to educate why audiences. And it's just, it's not okay.

You know, I think like part, this is like, it's, you know, I was talking to my team and I was like, people are so fucking weird. I'm like people like,

well, can't just be normal. Like, I think the problem comes down to with like, and it comes down to the ask in the beginning, like the audacity that you ask me to come onto this platform and educate my people. Like that is the wrong way. Yeah. That's not the right way to go exactly i mean i

would be irritated as anybody to come on someone if someone approached me said michael come on this thing and educate i'd be like what are you talking about yeah exactly so i think it's i get where you're coming from i get where they're but it's it's it's the way that people go about things agree with agree fucking weird agree fucking weird exactly so there's a lot of that happening and it's just it's unfortunate there's a lot of people listening with kids i just had a baby yeah and i again i don't want to ask you what i should do i want you to say what a good direction is is google a good direction is. Is Google a good direction? Honestly, or like, where do I go with this? I want to raise someone who's a compassionate, open-minded, nonjudgmental,

accepting person. Well, the beautiful thing about children is racism is learned. It is not, you were not born racist, right? Like you could look at a pure two, three-year-old child and they don't have a racist bone in their body. They learn it from the behaviors of the people they're around, the parents, the environments they're in, which is why I think these conversations are so important because like, you know, essentially the difference between our skin is a pigment, right? Like that's what it is. And you know, if you don't tell children like, hey, there's something wrong or different about that pigment, they don't learn it. Right.

So we're teaching people. So the better thing to do as a parent is to understand like you lead by example, you are the person potentially teaching your own child to be racist. And if you catch them around environments that are exhibiting that, like you need to correct it. Yeah. And I also think too for, especially I'll speak to, I'll speak to white mothers. I think it's important also to recognize the privilege and not having to teach your children that it's

a shitty world out there for black people and black children. Black children are often adult, adultified very, very much so. Tamir Rice is a really good example. He was murdered, I think, just playing in the park and he was killed by police. And so I also think that kids can handle hearing tough things. It's all about the way in which you communicate it. Because I also think that's a lot of what's happening now is that how come I was taught from a really young age from my West African family that you'll always have to work harder than your white counterparts. It's the way that the system is set up. I think that white kids also need to know that this is the reality for many black and brown bodies in the US. And they are not, their innocence isn't going to be taking taken away from them.

That's the biggest I think that's like the biggest misconception when it comes to parents teaching their children. And I'm also a mental health therapist. So I've done I've had clients who are stay at home moms. And I mean, I love I love my mothers that I've worked with. But I do think that that's a misconception is that you talking about some of these topics, you can, you know, water it down so that they understand and that they're not like traumatized walking away from the conversation, but they need to know. They need to know that this is not okay. This behavior is not okay. Not saying that you don't see color is not okay. Right? There we go. It's a good-up that's something you and i need to learn my

follow-up question to you yeah was going to be as you've heard us talk to us like where are we wrong oh that's a good question this is good you know why because this is to me this is the conversation just say michael's all wrong but really like you know because i'll say something like i don't see color and if that's wrong i didn't hear you say that in this conversation he did oh no he did i'm so i think i'm just so used to hearing in my own life i i have not seen color or race or i want to know where i want to know where we're wrong go yeah i would say that's probably the number one thing is to see it to see it to honor

it to respect it and to it yeah because I think I think also I I mean you can what is it is it pride month I think that there's also let I mean let's talk about you know black trans lives matter right and so just because I don't judge people based off of their, you know, their gender, sexual orientation, et cetera, et cetera, doesn't mean that I don't need to make it very, very paramount and important in my life to make sure that they know that they're important and that I don't understand, but that I stand with them. You know, I think that there's a difference. We have to see it in order to acknowledge it, in order to call it out.

And so even when we're talking about, you know, white privilege, it doesn't mean that white people have never struggled or that you don't have, you know, that you haven't worked hard for everything you've gotten. That was what my husband was really triggered by is he's like, yeah, I'm a doctor, but like, like I had to bust my ass to be here. No one's debating that. That's true. But there's built-in advantages in the system that you are not aware of and that you're kind of been blind to where you're continuing to perpetuate these beliefs and these behaviors because of what is already, like the system was built for you. Yep. There was one time I cried running Dear Media. I don't even know if you know this. Might make me tear up a little bit here too. Honestly, it might make me tear up.

I have some black women that work for me here you saw some people out there and when this first happened it was the first time I had to acknowledge and we did a team meeting I was like we gotta be fucking better she was on the meeting and she blacked her screen and I know some of the things I'm saying here

it's upsetting because we have a lot of white people we have some black people but she was definitely minor in the group and I realized at the time i'm like you know i'm saying things here and it's probably upsetting to her it's upsetting week and i called the phone and she was crying and we cried together and i was like i almost cry now yeah but it was the first time i had to face realistically like this is the experience that's something close to me that's worked with me for years is faced and i just didn't see it yeah i was blind to it and i felt terrible because it's not that i was trying to not know i just didn't see it right and when it hit me in the face like

that almost hit you know we see on the snow yeah it pulled my fucking guts out of my stomach because i'm like this is a real experience that people yeah you and topsy want to go to another room to have a life coaching session? No, but you know, but it gets deep for me because what it, what it pointed out to me and like, I don't talk, this is the first time I've actually talked about it was that holy shit. I've been so blind to this, this part of the world, this experience that someone else could go through and me just thinking that I'm not part of it and not contributing to people's pain. It was just like a wrong assumption. And so I think that when I choose to think that people

are optimistic, I'm an eternal optimist. I choose something like this, that this experience in this country has gone through. This is the first time on such a huge scale that people are, and people like myself are opening their eyes and be like, wow, this is. For sure. This is an experience that people in this country, black women, black men have experienced. And like, there's no way you can not see it anymore. Right. You can't, you can't just like not see it.

And it's emotional because like, and this is like where, like, I think when you talk about white people and being fragile, I've read the book, but it's okay now to be like, this needs to fully be acknowledged and we need to recognize it and it's going to be painful. But we're going to experience that pain in a sharp, quick way, like in both color in this country, black, white, black, brown, you know, they've experienced for a very long time. So like a little bit of short-term pain is okay. White people got to toughen up and say like, okay, we're going to, we're going to listen for listen for a little bit yeah and you'll be good you'll be good i want to know how you are being an example with your community and then i really want to get into what you do because it's so interesting i want to know like how you personally

topsy are taking everything that's going on and being a good example for your you have a big community i do i do and they are loyal they are very loyal um so i think what i've been doing is i have a lot of white people in my community and that's been very interesting but actually i've gotten really barely any hate dms nothing like that because they already know not to come in my inbox with that bullshit so you will get fucking blocked you might get blasted i don't care if you're bold enough to send me some stupid shit in the dms you're bold enough to you know kind of girl that's what I do the same thing I'm like block it I'm the worst I have like no tolerance for it but um I just really have taken it especially those two weeks I really took it upon myself to just educate because they were

hungry they wanted to know and I'm like I have the bandwidth I have the boundaries upon myself to just educate because they were hungry. They wanted to know. And I'm like, I have the bandwidth. I have the boundaries within myself to know when, you know, when to say something, when to just rest. It's not my responsibility, but I want to. And I just educated a lot on my platform about the wealth gap in the U.S. between whites and blacks and just gave them actual statistics, redlining, mortgage loan, you know, like all of the systemic versus systematic racism that goes on. And what's the difference between the two? And I really infuse that into my content. And then, of course, I let them know, like, this is not don't just follow me to get educated. Like, this is a bonus.

This is not what my platform is built on. Like, I actually I'm a mindset coach. This is what I do. But I also realized that I have a lot of white people in my following that they have never hired a black coach. A lot of people had just have never, I've gotten passed over for white coaches all the time who charged more than me. But it's very interesting, but that's how racism happens. It's like the subconscious bias. They don't even realize that that's what they're doing is they're intentionally or unintentionally not hiring, you know, black people, black entrepreneurs. It's bizarre, but that's just what my reality was. And so educating a lot has been something that I've been infusing into my content, especially for

educating CEOs and just helping them understand how to navigate as much as possible from like, as far as mindset shifts, like how to look at owning your shit when you fuck up, you know, how to look at what's coming up for you emotionally, because that's my specialty is talking about emotions. And I understand that it's got to be tough, you know, running a company and trying to do the right thing, trying to make all these calls. But at the same time, here's some insight for you. Here's how to address being called out. Here's how to address shit happening in your company and you didn't realize it.

And how do you continue to repair those relationships that you've damaged with your white privilege and not realizing the you know, the importance of dismantling white supremacy. So. So let's talk about your platform and what you do. You obviously are, I mean, you're very, very educated in the life coach situation. And you said you worked in mental health. Yeah, I was a mental health therapist. Okay, so we didn't get to get that story. Can you walk us through that? I spent too much time listening to me cry. Yeah, she is. get to get that story. Can you walk us through that? I spent too much time listening to me cry. Oh my gosh. So I have been a clinical mental health therapist for nine years.

I have my master's in social work. So my goal was to help people on a clinical level, one-on-one therapy. That was my goal. And so I did that. And I have my own private practice on the West side of Michigan that I'm actually closing down this month because my coaching business blew the fuck up. I've had my coaching business since 2017. I love therapy. That's what I do. That's my heart. That's my love. But I love helping entrepreneurs with just their mindset shifts. And so I noticed that there was this gap in people who came to me for therapy who actually needed therapy, but there were a lot of people that they needed help with things that were not clinical. They didn't have a clinical depression. Can you give an example? Yeah. Yeah. I used to have a lot of business owners contact me wanting to know whether or

not I could just help them with some of their confidence issues in business and just like self-esteem stuff. And it was stuff that, yeah, I could have, I could have, you know, billed for it and billed the insurance company for it and it would have been fine, but they weren't clinical issues. So clinical issues are things that areas of your life have to be severely affected. And so in order to bill insurance companies. And so these people were just struggling with self-esteem. They didn't have depression. They didn't have anxiety. It was just more so situational stuff that would come up in business. And they were like, how in the hell? I have no idea what to do with these fluctuating numbers in my business. One month I'm making this, the next month I'm making that. I want to make sure that I'm always making the same amount of money. So then there was that comparison piece

that comes in, comparing themselves to other business owners who were doing the same amount of money. So then there was that comparison piece that comes in comparing themselves to other business owners who are doing the same thing. And they were all dealing with a lot of shit that I'm like, this isn't like therapy. This is coaching. This is something completely different. This is goal-oriented coaching. They just want to like, how do I move forward? How do I move forward? And so I decided to use some of my clinical therapy skills, psych-based, evidence-based skills, and I incorporated that into my coaching business. And so they're two separate businesses completely. And I just love the coaching industry. I think it's just one of the fastest growing industries online. And I help six and seven figure female entrepreneurs just address and identify. Only female. Yeah, for the most part. But there have been some men that are like, I would love to work with you and I will work with men. I do enjoy working with men, but women are my shit. Let's say Kristen in Louisiana has a mental block towards doing something

entrepreneurial. Yeah. What advice are you giving her? Oh, mental block. So I would talk to her about what I mean, what is it that you're afraid of? Maybe she doesn't have the confidence to put herself out there and actually execute. So I would look at what exactly is coming up for you that makes you feel like you can't do it. Where's the evidence for it? Maybe she feels that she has fear towards putting herself out there in front of her peers. And she only has a hundred followers and she feels like it's not worth it. There's a lot of young people,

let's say like college grads that listen to this show. And they have to get some mindset. This is good. They have ideas. Okay. But they don't because they're fearful of either rejection or failure. They're like, they can't get past the wall

of getting out there. And one of the things that Lauren and I have tried to talk about is like, launch fast and adjust, like throw it out there, get it out there. But there's this block where people, they wait for for the right time and then what happens is that time never comes the time never comes yeah so i think number one i would agree that i i love doing like the mindset work plus action at the same time i don't really believe in the whole like think about

it think about it think about it because you could think think yourself to death so i think that something that's important is to really identify what exactly is it that's, what exactly is it is causing you to believe that you can't, you can't create the life that you want? What's getting in your way? Is it the fear that you're not going to make money? Well, that's a fallacy because I was monetizing my account long before I ever had 3000 followers. I've been making bank online since I've had like, you know, 300. So let's just, so let's debunk that myth. So I think a lot of it is myths. What are you buying into that's causing for you to believe that what you have to say isn't worthy of getting out there? And what they're going to find is a lot of people, so this is why I love coaching is because I really look at

evidence. Where's the evidence for what it is that you're feeling? We operate off of feelings so much, but feelings aren't facts. So just because you feel like the market's saturated, just because you feel like you're not going to make money and you have 200 followers, so why bother? It doesn't make that true. So how can you look to find the evidence of it not being true? Sometimes it might mean going on your stories and saying, hey, do any entrepreneurs follow me that have less than 500 followers and they're making money?

Or what about going to stalk certain hashtags and finding entrepreneurs who have smaller followings who are making money off of their platform? That's happening. But I think sometimes we allow our feelings to determine what it is we do. And that's like my whole mission is that feelings can't rule the decisions that we make. We have to think from logic, strategy, et cetera. What is the common denominator that you see across the board of where people are going wrong? Or where people are coming to you for coaching and you just see this is so- Oh my God. I think money is one of the biggest ones where, especially with women-

Lack of money or fear of money? Fear of not being able to continue the success that they've had with their business or with their company. Like I've worked with so many CEOs that have scaled, you know, to millions of dollars and they still have those fears of like, what if my business can't sustain this? What if this is it for me? What if this was a fluke? What if people find out in the next two months that I didn't know what the fuck I was doing and my whole business crashes? I mean,

it's just like these problems that we make up in our head when we've had so much success and you're just hoping you just continue it. And that's the number one thing I see is that there's so many CEOs that have made lots of money and they don't believe that they can sustain it. And it breaks my heart. What's the common denominator with success? You obviously work with very powerful women. What do you see that's very similar? I would say, so with success, I would say that-

There's like a trait you see in these women that like- Ooh, I would say that the trait I see is a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of fear that they can't continue the, you know, the role that they're on, um, with outsourcing and hiring team members and employees. Um, they fear that they don't know what they're doing. That's the biggest one. Like, I'm just figuring it out day to day. And what about with success? Is there one that's an opposite of that?

Yeah. But that's what she's saying. People that are successful. Like, listen, I have a posture. I tell people. Oh, you're saying that. Oh, yeah. People are successful.

I'm saying I'm I get what you guys are saying. I'm saying is there like a tip that they do? Like they all wake up early. Oh, OK. I get what you're saying. Consistency. Consistency. I would say this consistency is what I've seen is create success. Yeah. It's like just being consistent in whatever it is that you do, even if you're not getting. See, I like to tell my clients, like, you know, especially the ones who were, I mean, I don't

work with so many now who are just starting, but when I used to work with newbies, it was pretty much like what you do with the few people that enter your programs is what you'll do with the many. So if you're not grateful for those two clients that you've had, to be quite honest, I mean, I just had like a crazy successful launch. I created this program called Destroy the Mindset Drama and it's teaching online coaches how to implement evidence-based mindset strategies into their programs because part of business coaching is dealing with the mindset. But there's so many business coaches that just really don't want to touch it. They just, they're all strategy. They're like, just do the work. So basically using like

psych principles, like what I've built my whole career on and using some of that inside of coaching when you're coaching people through their mindset issues. It's all of, everything I do is based in science. Everything I do is based in psych. That's smart. So you're saying that most entrepreneurial coaches, they are using just strategy, strategy, strategy. They don't want to acknowledge the feeling. Yes. It sounds like you're breathing feminine energy into it too. Yes, because I do think that there's, and I mean, I think masculine energy is incredible, but I do think there's a lot of that when it comes to business stuff. And it's like, just go do it. Like, I know like you are following the path that you saw me going on and that's why you hired me, right? As your business coach. So just go do what I said. And it's like,

yeah, well, it's not quite that simple sometimes. You need to talk them through their mindset shit. Yeah, you need to get right with yourself. Yeah, you got to get right. You got to believe that it's even possible. There's audience members out there that are listening and there's some kind of homework that they can do at home. Any tips? Any tactics? Okay.

So any tactics for listeners who want to- Launch a business, start a blog. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We're going to have to do another fucking podcast. No, this is really good. I would say first of all, who is it that you want to serve? Like, who do you want to serve? Because if you don't know who you're talking to, then, well, I mean, what are we doing here? So who do you want to serve? What are you passionate about? What do you what do you know your people want to learn? What do you know that people want to learn? I don't do like market research really anymore, because I know my shit and I know what people need. Even if they don't realize it quite yet, I'm going to help you help bring it to the awareness that this is a problem that you're having. So I would say if they're wanting to

start, who is it that you want to serve? Why do you want to serve them? So what's your why? What's like your big, you know, biggest underlying reason? And then really identify like what are some of the mindset blocks that you know are going to get in your way of accomplishing that goal? Because oftentimes it's not the strategy that's the problem. It's getting in our own heads of can I actually do it, right? Identifying like what are the automatic thoughts that are coming up for you? Do you actually believe that this is possible? You're very confident, which I appreciate so much. Thank you. You're confident too. Thank you. Do you have any things that you do, daily practices, morning rituals, nighttime routines

that you do to work your confidence muscle? Skincare. That's literally, and I talk to myself in the mirror. Like I tell myself I'm a bad bitch and I put on my skincare. You got beautiful skin, but I was not expecting that answer. I was like, I was not expecting that answer. I know you appreciated that. You know I love skincare. Oh, I know you do. I was like, I was not expecting that answer. I know you appreciated that.

No, you know, I love skincare. Oh, I know you do. I use my, what is it? The roller.

I can't think of Jade, Jade roller. I love to use my Jade roller. I love to like, listen to affirmations on my Spotify. That's like my shit. That's like, honestly,

my, as I talk to myself in a kind way, oftentimes we're looking for validation from everyone else. You're not going to fucking get that. You're not going to fucking get that. So you need to speak life into yourself, into what it is that you want to get accomplished for the day, into how amazing it is that you get to serve three people in your programs

or in your services or whatever. And you need to speak life into yourself and into your business because that's what's going to sustain it. Your internal self-talk. Huge. Well, listen, Topsy, I'm really happy we got to do this conversation. I'm really happy we got to have it. Thank you so much for coming on and reaching out. I mean, this was fun. This was incredible. Before you go, pimp out your whole coaching courses. Tell us what they're going to get. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I have a course called slayer imposter monster so that's teaching i i coined the term slayer imposter monster is copyrighted um but is teaching um online entrepreneurs especially new ones it's an

introductory course teaching online entrepreneurs how to um identify and defeat their imposter syndrome that shows up and so i walk them to tangible action steps of how to do that. I have a course called Escape the Thought Spiral, and it's teaching online entrepreneurs, but entrepreneurs in general, female entrepreneurs, but anyone can buy it, how to identify and overcome the toxic negative thought patterns that happen in entrepreneurship. So it's very, very specific to online entrepreneurs, but any entrepreneur can identify with it. And then I created a program called Destroy the Mindset Drama. That's like that's going to be probably my signature program is teaching online coaches how to implement evidence based mindset strategies into their businesses.

So and shout out a black owned business. Oh, man. Like the lip bar, the lip bar, Melissa Butler out of Detroit. That brand is the shit do you know flavor or do i need to go on you might have to go on and look but i have a lip bar the lip bar she's incredible yeah that that brand is incredible and where can everyone follow you on instagram you're a great follow you have an incredible instagram story i spent like an hour you you i spent an hour looking through your instagram stories you got your shit like dialed

in i do yeah i do um you can find me on instagram at topsy van and bash come back anytime you're out here oh my god this was so much fun thank you guys for having me yeah have fun in palm springs and next time you come on we need to do like like maybe we'll actually get a reader on so you can coach the reader that could be good we gotta bring we got to bring in, we got to bring Collins back on. No, maybe we actually bring a skinny confidential reader. That would be so dope. On like an actually coacher. That would be so dope.

I'd be down. And maybe we'll do a giveaway for one of your eBooks. Yes. I'll talk to you off air. Yeah, absolutely. I promise I won't cry again. It's all good.

I love vulnerability. Thank you so much for coming on. Follow you on Instagram at Topsy. The Topsy Vandenbosch. The Topsy Vandenbosch. Thanks, guys. And guys, don't go yet. Topsy has offered to give away her course.

It's called Slay Your Imposter Monster, and it's $97. She is going to give it away to one aspiring entrepreneur. All you have to do to win is leave your favorite part of this episode on my latest Instagram and follow Topsy on Instagram. It's T-O-P-S-I-E-V-A-N-D-E-N-B-O-S-C-H. You guys won't be sorry. She's an amazing follow. And get excited for next week because we have the one and only Dr. Jason Diamond.

He is a major plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills coming on the podcast. With that, we'll see you on Tuesday. This episode was brought to you by Embark. This summer, Embark has a limited time offer just for our listeners. Go to EmbarkVet.com now and use promo code SKINNY to get $50 off your dog breed and health kit. So visit EmbarkVet.com and use promo code SKINNY to get $50 off today. EmbarkVet.com and use promo code SKINNY.

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