The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Jamie Lynn Sigler On Living Beyond MS, Never Heard Before Sopranos Stories, Motherhood & Finding Inner Personal Strength

Episode Date: August 3, 2026

#994: Join us as we sit down with Jamie Lynn Sigler – acclaimed actress, bestselling author, podcast host, and one of the most influential voices in the chronic illness community. Best known for her iconic role as Meadow Soprano on HBO's The Sopranos, Jamie Lynn opens up about the life-changing multiple sclerosis diagnosis she received at just 20 years old while filming the series. In this episode, Jamie Lynn shares the deeply personal stories behind her powerful new memoir, And So It Is: A Memoir of Acceptance and Hope – covering the realities of growing up in the spotlight, living with MS, navigating motherhood, redefining identity, building resilience, choosing acceptance over fear,  and what it truly means to accept life's unexpected challenges. With remarkable vulnerability, honesty, and unwavering optimism, Jamie Lynn opens up about finding strength, purpose, and hope – through every season of life.    For Detailed Show Notes visit TheBossticks.com   To connect with Jamie Lynn Sigler click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   Head to our ShopMy page HERE and LTK page HERE to find all of the products mentioned in each episode.   This episode is sponsored by The Skinny Confidential Elevate your summer skincare routine – shop now at https://shopskinnyconfidential.com.   This episode is sponsored by FRE Nicotine Try FRE Nicotine Pouches today at http://FREpouch.com and use code SKINNY for 25% off for NEW customers only. WARNING: This product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.   This episode is sponsored by Branch Basics Just use code SKINNY for 15% off the Premium Starter Kit at http://BranchBasics.com.   This episode is sponsored by Nutrafol For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit http://Nutrafol.com and enter promo code SKINNYHAIR.   This episode is sponsored by Caldera + Lab Go to http://calderalab.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY for 20% off your first order.   This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp Visit http://Betterhelp.com/SKINNY.   This episode is sponsored by Just Ingredients Visit https://justingredients.com/SKINNY and use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first full-price purchase.    This episode is sponsored by Square Get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at http://square.com/go/SKINNY! Produced by Dear Media

Let's welcome Jamie Lynn Sigler to the show. You may know her as Meadow Soprano from The Sopranos, but you also may know her from her new memoir, and so it is. Let's welcome Jamie Lynn Sigler to the show. You can't be biased, but it's probably the greatest TV show ever created. When you're thrust into that kind of fame that no one can understand. At that age. At that age.

Are you aware, and you speak about this in the book, it seemed like you almost weren't aware, and then you became aware it all in one. Yeah, you know, I think it's like this thing where it starts happening and you think, oh, this is what I want. This is what everybody wants. This is. And when you're so young and you have no reference and you have no real life experience, it was like that thing where I kind of woke up one day and I'm like, oh my God, like everybody knows who I am. There's commentary on who I am and how I look and all of this stuff. And I am not a fully formed human. Like I don't know how I feel about. myself. I don't know who I am. And so, yes, it was very overwhelming. And I mean, everything about me and the business was green, you know, like I came from Long Island. My no connections to the business. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad ran an amateur men's baseball league, you know, like I grew up like all of my other friends just doing community theater on the side. My goal was Broadway. It was never to be on TV or film that was like I just wanted to be on the stage. And

So when I was cast in the show, of course I was excited, but very overwhelmed. They'd never been on a film set before. I had never, and when you were a kid, you kind of like fake it to you make it. And I was very much such a type A people pleaser type of kid that I never asked for help. I never asked any questions. So it almost feels like from the day I was cast and shot the pilot to like season two or three, I all of a sudden kind of had whiplash of like what just happened to the last few years of my life. And there was many times where I would look at my friends that were in college and,

you know, pledging for their sororities and almost have envy of that normalcy and kind of what I thought the trajectory of my life was going to be. What was it like for you dealing with that is such a high and then finding out that you had MS having to hide that and be such a low at once? It's almost like it almost counteracts each other. It almost feels like, it's a bit of a theme in my life. Like, I feel like I'm always holding two ends of the stick at the same time. It's felt like at least for a very long time, you know, between having an eating disorder at 16 when I started the show, right? It's almost became like prior to getting the MS diagnosis, there was always things about myself that I was hiding or feeling shameful of, unshameful about. And so by the

time I was diagnosed with MS, it almost like wasn't a surprise. to me that something like that would happen, but I didn't give myself any opportunity to really digest and, like, figure out, like, what that meant. I just couldn't get off the train. I was still going. So it's like, okay, well, we're going to hide this too from everybody. And I'll just deal with it as it comes. And unfortunately, no one in my life at the time, like, sat me down that did know. and it was only very few people that were like, no, no, no, this is a very serious diagnosis and we need to take care of you. The focus for everyone was how do we just keep this hidden so that your life doesn't get ruined. Did you feel something? Did you notice something? Did something like, was something like

symptom was? Yeah. Like how did you, yeah, I'm wondering how you knew it at such a young age. So when I was 19 a year prior to getting diagnosed with MS, I had these like weird neurological symptoms. I was had this like boyfriend and I was visiting him and his family in Florida. And I felt like, you know that feeling right before pins and needles where your limb is asleep and you're kind of trying to wake it up and it's like this dull sort of, you know, I don't know, like buzzing inside your body. That's what I felt in my feet. And every day the sensation was rising and then it got to my knees and then I got to my thighs. And by that point, I was like, I think I should fly home. Something's wrong. I got on the plane and I remember when we landed and I got up to get my

suitcase from like the compartment, I could barely stand. And it took me like 45 minutes to walk from the plane to baggage claim. And my dad was there waiting for me. And I just like collapse in his arms. And I was like, you have to take me the hospital. Something's wrong. And at that point, they had ruled, I immediately went into the ER MRI, spinal tap, cat scans, everything. Everything was inconclusive. They ruled out MS at the time, did all this blood work. And, For 11 days, I was like paralyzed, basically. I could not move my legs. We were getting ready to film season three.

So I remember David Chase and Edie coming to visit me and him being like, you have such a big season this season. Like I have so many things written for meadow. And at that time, I remember being like, I'm going to be fine. I'll be fine. Don't worry. I'm don't worry. And that was kind of always my attitude forward facing. But I actually genuinely did believe that.

I didn't think that I was going to be paralyzed forever, even though everything was inconclusive. A week later, they died, they were some blood tests that came back where I possibly had Lyme's. They gave me a bunch of steroids and did a pick line so I would have like three weeks of antibiotics. In hindsight, maybe it was a steroids that brought me out of my first flare of MS or maybe it was Lyme that led to MS. I don't know. I've been down the road 150 times and at this point it's like it doesn't matter because then a year and a half later I started getting that weird sensation in my legs again, went to the ER thinking, give me some antibiotics again. This is Lyme's.

And they said, no, we need to run all of those tests again. And that's when I was diagnosed with MS. Wow. When you hear that diagnosis and you're so young, what is that like for you? I tuned out immediately. So there was like dissociation. I completely dissociated. I completely dissociated.

Like up and only until very recently have I started asking questions in my neurologist's office, like, where are my lesions? Like, what does this mean? Because now I understand. And maybe this is just from comes with maturity and time. But I now I feel like the more information I have, the more power I feel, the more in control I feel. Even if I can't change anything, okay, I know what's going on. How can I support that? how can I help that? But for so long, it was just I thought I would do better if I just ignored it. The less I know, the better, you know, I don't have to think about it. And that was kind of my M.O. for a really long time. And so when I got the diagnosis, there was no research done. It was like, tell me the medicine to take and I'll do it. I wasn't very good about that even, you know,

for the first four or five years because I hated it and it was uncomfortable. and it didn't make me feel good. So I was a really terrible patient for the first couple of years, but I didn't have anyone holding me accountable either. For those that are not familiar with the disease, are there common things that maybe people take for granted that you have to think about either avoiding or not participating in with the disease? Everything.

Okay. For me, everything. It affects everybody differently. I had somebody recently describe it to me, and I thought it was really good because she was talking about how she described it to her kids, this woman who was recently diagnosed with MS. And she told her kids, like, you know how someone can bring home a flu and you have a cough, you have more of a fever and I have kind of a stuffy nose and it affects us all differently. That's kind of MS, right?

Everybody just kind of has a different experience with it. For me, it affects my walking, my gate. My right leg is significantly weaker than my left. I have balance issues, pro preception. I've had bladder issues. That's my laundry. list of symptoms from this. Thankfully, knock on wood, there hasn't been any other. So I'm stable for the last 15 years because there's been no new symptoms. But when the damage is done,

just sort of that signal gets weaker and weaker. So for me, I've had to transition over the past couple of years of being able to self-avocate and accept the fact that I am somebody with a disability and I am disabled. And that was really hard for me to, accept really hard for me to say, really hard for me, I don't know, to put out into the world. I think there was also, even when I became public after 15 years of hiding it, I still wanted to be hireable. And I still wanted to be like, I'm okay and not really talk about how it affected me. but now you know everything everything I do is is pre-planned and it's exhausting and it's hard but we all have hard and this is just mine and I really I have to have that mindset to be able

to move forward to be the mom I want to be and the wife I want to be and the friend I want to be. And I think the more that I have accepted that, the more help I've accepted. But, you know, it's a journey. And when I talk about it, I don't speak from a place of having it figured out. I'm still doing that day by day. And I don't claim to be an expert and I don't want to be the poster child of MS. But I do know that there are many people like me that feel that. really isolated and alone in their experience. And so, you know, my sharing it, I think not only helps other people, but really helps me remind myself that I'm not the only one in this kind of experience. When you look back on your journey with MS, do you notice that it

flares up more when you're in a toxic situation? For instance, you talk about your ex-husband in the book, which if I'm being honest, he sounds like a nightmare. You know, it was, it was very difficult for me to relive that and write about that. First of all, to answer your question, absolutely. I mean, I think we're all, we all know that stress causes all of us to inflame anything that we're dealing with, right? And emotionally, physically, whatever. So yes, I, any time that my body, anytime that I am contracting or feeling constricted in any which way, my body. my body talks to me. Like, MS is a curse in many ways it feels like, but it also is a blessing because I, it's like my barometer, like my alarm goes off real quick. It really tells me, yes. My ex-husband, you know, it was one of the harder things to write about, not as much to like put it out there, but I really, this book was not about like taking anyone down. I, I am not a victim. I never live from a, I don't operate that way.

I'd never wanted to come across that way. But it was a very toxic relationship. And I think when we're young and we're vulnerable, we look for certain types of people that could give us what we're lacking. And he was that for me. And he, I was with him for five years. It wasn't all bad. You know, he made me feel safe and he made me feel protected.

I was at the height of my fame, the height of the show, dealing with this diagnosis. And he was young himself and inexperienced. And I have a lot of forgiveness for him and for myself. And I hope he can accept that. You know, when the book was coming out, I kind of like sent this flare out unknowingly to the universe where I was like, I just wish that I could contact somebody and his family and just let them know,

like, I accept however you're going to react when you read, about our time and our marriage. Like, I have to, but this is my truth. And I'm sorry if I've caused any pain by putting this out. I just, I think I like said it flippantly, like a friend or something. And two days later, his brother texted me. I have not talked to in like 20 years and was like, my son lives in Austin, blah, blah, and I was like, I'm so glad you've reached out. Can we talk? And I got to say that to him. And he was very lovely and accepting and saying, this is your journey and your story and you know we were there for much of it and you do you so he's like we get it i won't know just to give like to give you a compliment when you're reading it yes he sounds like a

nightmare but there is a conflicting complex energy from him like for instance he was there for you during the fame and he seems like he almost stepped in almost as a parent-esque figure my parents literally handed me to him you could feel that and then also like he seemed like he was was also there for you during your MS, but then there was the other side, which was like, it sounds. This is what I'm taking it as narcissistic, controlling, floundering. Is that the word? Flandering? Yeah, towards the end. I remember, I actually wrote about, this didn't make it into the book, but I remember I wrote about this one experience that I thought was really important, at least for me to write and get out where I had had an eating disorder as a teen. And I had been

volunteering at this eating disorder facility in Malibu when we were living in L.A. for a little while, me and my ex-husband. And I would just sit in in group therapy and talk with the girls. And I really enjoyed it. I think because I had never had any proper therapy myself at that point, that I just, like, and seeing people share in like deep honesty and truth, even though that's not how I was living my life was just so beautiful to be around. And I remember I want. went one time to one of the sessions and this girl that I'm friendly with was like kind of not making eye contact with me and like was not really looking at me. And immediately I got in a story in my head like, did I say something? Did I do something to her? My God, she must be mad at me.

Like, what did I do? And then when it came time for her to share in this in the circle, she had like my brother OD'd yesterday. He relapsed with his drug use. And it was like, oh my God. Like I cannot believe that I sat here this entire time thinking, that this girl's mood was about me. And I remember I went home to tell him that happened. And I remember his reaction was, see, you're such a selfish bitch that you think that everybody thinks that way about.

Like, everything revolves around you. And so on one hand where he supported me so much, he also, like, validated that voice in my head that I battled for forever. And I think that was also addicting too, right? Yeah. Like, oh, but you give it. to me straight. You're honest with me. You're real with me. Even if it wasn't the truth.

That's a lot of self-awareness to look at that like that. So when you're going through this diagnosis, you're on the biggest TV show in the world. You have this much attention. How are you managing those highs and lows? Not well. You know, like I kind of just, I kind of was tried to be present with wherever I was at. The truth is, whenever I'm around still to this day, like anyone from the Sopranos, it's like going home. Yeah. It's like family. Like those people, we've all seen each other through so much.

I mean, it was 10 years. 10 years of being on the same show with larger the same amount of people, unless they were whacked. That's right. Correct. I mean, and I was 16. So 16 to 26. Those are formative years. So these are people that I feel the safest around, like, deeply loved by, like so safe with.

So anytime like any premieres or Emmy awards or whatever, like we were a troop. We were like a rat pack. Like we rode together. We didn't go. No one went in their own limo. Like we would pack in all together. We would stay at the same hotel. It would be on the same airplane.

So whenever it was kind of like at that height, I felt safe because I was with my people. Yeah. And did they all know that you were battling this? No. That's the thing I was going to say was, but I, I never shared what. I was battling with. It was almost like I could escape it. I could sort of like leave my life and melt into meadow and have this sort of alter ego and believe that I'm someone else for a little while until season five is when I told Jim for the first time because he sort of forced it out of

me because I was going through my divorce at the time and I was kind of crumbling and didn't know again, how to communicate what I was going through. I just, because I had started the show with an eating disorder and they were worried about it, then I had had that Lyme's bout, and now I'm getting to divorce. There was always this sort of like feeling for me that I was like the problem child there, and I just didn't want to be. I just wanted to be the good girl and show up and do a good job. And he really was the one that, you know, in a really elegant way, just called me out and made me share. And so for those last two years that we worked together, we didn't talk much about it, but it was just having somebody know and just check in like with a nod or a wink or whatever was enough to sort of carry me through. He seemed to me like someone who was a man of few words, but when he spoke, you listened.

he's everything you would wish he was. Oh, stop. I know. I know, he's your crush. He's Lauren's crush. I know. And I told her I get it. I told her before I get it because not like I had an attraction towards him, but I would sometimes wish he was like my dad.

I'm like, oh, can you imagine if this was your dad? Well, that's an interesting, like how much of you gets kind of lost in the character when you're that young playing for that long? So much. You had to imagine. You feel like Meadow? Oh, yes. I mean, she was, she was who I wished I could be. So confident, so well spoken, so self-assured. Like, she'll walk in a room and know exactly who she is. She was like, she was, she was like, you know, an extension of me in a way, but who I wished I could be. And I sort of, I, I, I fed off her. And she got stronger as the seasons went along. Yes, 100% Fisty.

Very feisty, found her voice, but deeply loving, deeply loyal. I mean, Rob Eiler's my best friend. You know, we're so trauma bonded in like so many ways. Does he live here too? I think I saw him the other day outside of a night and it kind of threw me for a second.

I was like, wait, but then he was walking. I didn't know he lived here. He does his walks after he eats every day. So he does his like three to four mile walks. Oh, he's the best. The best. So you guys got real close. You all got close.

It almost felt like a real family. Yeah. And it still to this day does. It's just, it was such a unique experience. You know what I mean? It's like it's that kind of thing. It's like you don't know unless you were there. You know?

And no one changed throughout it. Like what a gift, not only to obviously be on that show, but learn from the best, like, how to do it. Like respect for the work. The other stuff is the bullshit. quiet the noise like have fun show up on time know your lines respect everybody like Jim really set this tone where you know he was so respectful of the cruise time like he would make it known like our scripty she had three kids at home and like sometimes when people would be fucking around he's like excuse me she's away from her kids right now let's go like

he really made you so aware he taught me how to operate in this business all of them did When you found out that he passed, what did you guys do? It's like the rock to me of everything. That must have been horrifying for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, the center of our universe was done. Yeah, I can only imagine.

It felt so final in so many ways. You know what I mean? It was like his life, the experience, like the story, it all ended there. It didn't end when the show ended. It ended when he passed. And it was so shocking and it was so devastating. I had seen him three months before he passed and I was able to tell him I was pregnant. And we had such, he was so happy. I had been to his wedding a year or two before that or a couple years before that and he had just had a baby girl. And it's just, it was so untimely and so devastating and so it was one of the biggest shocks of my life. I mean, I've I've lost a lot of people

in my life, including my brother. And his loss felt just as heavy. I mean, to be as close as you guys, it sounds like are and were and the show, it's like truly losing a member of your family. And what was so surreal was at the funeral, you know, I think HBO, funded the whole thing. It was pretty magnificent. It was at this beautiful cathedral on the Upper West Side. And we were invited with his family into the viewing room with the casket before the funeral. And I sat there. And the only reason I was able to go was because HBO chartered a plane. I was like eight and a half months pregnant at that point living in L.A. And there I was like huge belly, all of us dressed in black. And I'm like, we have shot this scene.

So many times. Oh my God, that gave me chills. Oh, whoa. Every season when you would come to do a wardrobe fitting, you would have one rack of black clothes because there would be funerals. Like there was- In the show. Yeah, there was multiple funerals.

Every year so like, oh my God, like, here we are. With all the cast members. The whole cast. All of us there, dressed in black. Like, it was incredibly surreal. When you guys ended the show the way it ended, Did you feel happy about it or did you feel indifferent? I'm somebody that likes things wrapped in a bow.

So I'm like, yeah. On Reddit. What I would like, I would have loved, I mean, I wanted Carmela to plan a fucking wedding. Like,

I wanted to see that wedding. And it's like there was some restraint there. It's the greatest ending of all time. 100%. So I've said this a million times, but my interpretation is that that ending is so beautiful because there's so much. you see Tony sort of clocking all these potential threats.

You feel this sort of build up. You're like, where is this going? But this music that is so hopeful and like don't stop believing. And it's like such a like feel good song. These people, this family, everyone in that universe, this is how they had to operate. So whether his life ended in that moment a week from then or 10 years from him, it's inevitable. That something like this was going to happen. What I think is great is...

No, you have to say... Just tell you what happened. I think he died. Yeah. The family or him? I think he did. Just him. That's your interpretation. I think there's so many things that like point to that.

They, the leads up. But I think what's great about it is it leads, it leaves the audience to have their own interpretation without... Don't stop believing. What do you want to believe happened? What's your interpretation? I agree with her. Yeah. So you think that they...

Because there's a many, there's many like foreshadowing scenes. I think he was like killed in the bathroom or, or something. something like that. Okay, but so you're going to leave the family? I think the guy just got him right at the table. Because isn't that? Oh, fuck. Very good fellas. I think it's in front of the family.

Because, well, but I think that's... When Meadow walk through the door? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's right. Because there's so many things where they're talking... I don't think it's in the bathroom. You're right. You're so right.

You're so right. You're so right. You're just like the lights go off. Oh my God. You're right. You're right. You're right. That's what happened. The guy in the jacket, maybe. That may be one of the best scenes in the world. Not like because he died.

I don't know why because I think if they would have wrapped it in a bow, there'd be, there, you would. Of course. I know. But it's, of course. And David Chase is, is a brilliant mind. He just, he just is our creator. Like, he just, there's no one like him. Who's someone on the cast that's a sleeper cell?

Meaning, like, someone that, like, you just really connected with that we would not even know. Like, I love Polly. I loved Paul. That was my guy. Yeah. Now was my guy. So he, I mean, I just. He always squeezed me too tight.

You know, he always reeked of obsession cologne. I was going to say I can smell a cologne without, you can smell it's like almost maybe an aftershave going on. Everything. The smell, not a hair out of place, just, but just loving and sweet. And one of his dear friends, Mike, so, you know, Tony, towards the end of his life, you know, had some memory issues and definitely was, you know, not here anymore in very many ways. And I remember his dear friend Mike, who would always come to him with all the, all events and shows and whatnot called me one day.

And he's like, so I went to go visit Tony and I was showing him pictures, you know, trying to jog his memory. And he was really just kind of catonic and not really talking, catatonic and not really talking. He's like, and I showed him a picture of you and him from the Emmys. And he went, my princess. That's cute. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So he was like, he's my sleeper cell.

Like who you would maybe not expect that I was like super close with was him. Oh my God. What a great story. Yeah, I know. Seems like a lot of love. Beyond the most, the most. But, you know, but scary. You know, he had a past.

Oh, and that guy puts some real work in. Like, really. He was still my celebrity crush. No, we're talking about Tony Sirico. Tony. Oh, I'm talking about Tony Supreme. No, no, Tony. We're talking about Tony Serrico.

Polly Walnut. You guys have to call the characters by their name. No, Tony Suriko. Polly Walnut. Sorry, I'm talking about Polly Wormack. No, no, no. Borkenstocks and, like, wrote a Vespa. Got it.

Okay. You were, I was like, I didn't know he had memories. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Tony, Sarika actually really. Let's clarify that so a reporter doesn't pick that up. He was like a legit dude at one point. Okay, so you're talking about Polly, whose real name was Tony.

That's right. That's right. It's a little confusing, you guys know. A hundred. A lot of Tonys. Yeah, but I guess, I guess that's why I, that's my fault. Got it. But Polly, that's still just.

is amazing story. Yeah. I love that. Okay. So when do you decide what's the breaking point to leave, I'll say it, the toxic X? We were definitely leading up to it. I mean, there was so much fighting. And you know when you're in this relationship, I don't know if you've ever had this. Like, you're in a relationship and you're fighting so much that you start to question like, am I crazy? Yeah. Like, am I the crazy one? Is he right? Am I like? Because by the end of it, I mean, he made me feel this big. Which is so crazy. that he's one of the people that knew that you were dealing with MS. The fact that he would then want to make you feel so small is nuts.

You know, maybe because I didn't speak enough about what was going on in my body or maybe enough wasn't going on in my body, it was never considered. It just wasn't. It just wasn't until it was loud enough that it had to be. Because you had minimized it so much to others. Yeah. Quick break to talk about just ingredients, electrolytes. We have talked about electrolytes on this show for years now.

Here's the problem, though. You never know which ingredients you can trust. You never know which ones actually work. But there is one thing we do know for certain. And that's electrolytes and proper hydration is extremely important for overall health, so much so that many functions in the body actually shut down and stop working if you're not properly hydrated. What we love about Just Ingredients is was founded by Carolyn Call after her own mental health journey led her to change the ways she looked at food and the impact it can have on your mental and physical health.

With just ingredients, they believe in nourishing your body with real food ingredients. And because of that, their electrolytes are made with real fruit and organic coconut water. Like I said, it's so hard. The market is so saturated with electrolytes. It's hard to figure out which one to trust. This one has the cleanest ingredients. There's no added sugar, no artificial flavors, sweeteners or colors, and no sugar alcohols. And they've got two electrolyte options.

The everyday electrolytes, which is three to one potassium to sodium ratios, no overly salty taste. It's great for the whole family. Anyone can take it. and the performance electrolytes, which I really like, which is for high-intensity activity or days where you sweat more. It fits into daily rituals, whether you're sweating it out or just staying on top of hydration. Many people think that you need to be sweating to take electrolytes. Nope, you can take it just to be properly hydrated, so they're not just endlessly drinking water and urinating it out. So check them out, visit www. www.com.com.

And use code Skinny at checkout for 20% off your first full-price purchase. That's J-U-S-I-N-G-R-E-D-I-N-T-S.com. slash skinny and use code skinny for 20% off your first order. This applies only to full price orders. Again, that's just ingredients.com slash skinny code skinny. I have a trick if you're looking to get your man, your boyfriend, your husband, your brother, your whatever on a skincare routine. Okay. You got to go to Caldera Lab and you got to get the regimen. Okay. That's the one to get. It's their bestseller. I like the one with the eye defense in it because Michael needs a little help with his guys, but they have this best selling, clinically proven three-step, which makes it so simple for

these guys. It's a skincare system, and it's upgraded with a targeted 360-degree eye care. Everything is designed to make these guys skin glow, okay? They're going to look fresh. If you're a boy and you're listening, listen up. If you want to cleanse, hydrate, visibly improve your skin, and if you want to really reduce the look of fatigue, puffiness, dark circles, this is the brand to go to. It keeps it really simple. You can choose your frequency. You can get 45 days, 60 days, 75 days. Michael's on the 60 day one.

There's no harsh chemicals. There's no animal testing. It's paraben free. It's silicone free. It just really hits all the buckets. And it makes it so easy for your man. Okay. And as a man, and not to speak for all men,

you really don't grow up learning about skincare and how to take care of your skin. It's just something we don't really talk about. Sometimes it's even considered taboo. But doing this show for 10 years like I have, learning about the skin as an organ, learning about proper skin care, understanding that it's important to take care of your skin, just like it's important to take care of your body and mind was a game changer.

All you have to do is go to calderalab.com slash skinny and use code skinny for 20% off your first order. Again, that's calderalab.com slash skinny and code skinny. Do you struggle with hair thinning or shedding or hair issues? I had hair shedding for so long after I had my babies and let me tell you what I did. I did a lot of scout massage. I did a lot of microneedling. and I did a lot of copper in my shampoo, and of course I supplemented. And the supplement that I have been taking that I always swear by is Nutraful.

Nutriful is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand, and it's the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologist. Nutriful's hair growth supplements are peer-reviewed, NSF certified for sport, and clinically tested. Let your hair be one less thing to worry about. see visibly thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in three to six months with Nutraful. For a limited time, Nutraful is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping. When you visit Nutraful.com and enter promo code skinny hair. That's Nutraful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code skinny hair.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You've heard me talk about BetterHelp for a long time, but I don't know that we've ever actually talked about how much people love the service when they use it. We've been doing this show for a decade now, and I can't tell you how many people have come on and sworn by the fact that therapy has helped them enhance their life, help their family, help them navigate through trials and turpulation, and really just figure out how to think positively in general. Of course, don't just take it for me. You can check it out yourself at betterhelp.com slash reviews to see amazing customer reviews in real time. The reviews are updated every day with hundreds of people saying how much they love BetterHelp and how helpful it's been to them. So again, if you want to check it out for yourself, all you have to do is visit BetterHelp.com slash reviews to see for yourself.

because BetterHelp has an average live therapy session rating of 4.9 out of 5 based on over 1.7 million client session reviews. So if you've been thinking about doing therapy, give online therapy a try with BetterHelp. Like I said, so many people swear by this, I truly believe therapy can change the world and can change people's lives. Of course, we have an incredible offer for our listeners and viewers. See the reviews, see what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Skinny. That's BetterH-E-L-P.com slash Skinny. We were so we were at that place, right?

Where I mean just completely unhappy and both of us had had it. And he wanted to go out to this party and I didn't want to go. For whatever reason I put my foot down that I didn't want to go. I wanted to stay home and I wanted him to choose me. I wanted him to choose to stay home with me and be with me and not care that all these fancy people were going to be at this birthday party. And he chose to go out. And also I didn't at that point No longer enjoyed who he was when we went out

Because it was like a lot of drinking and partying and it just I couldn't keep up with that I could I A I don't feel comfortable I'd said in the book like I did cocaine one time in my life And I told everybody where I was that I was on cocaine Like I'm just like not meant for that I'm like no chill Do you know what I mean? I'm like We know yeah exactly thanks I could have tell

So he went out And I remember immature little 24-year-old thinking like, I'm going to set a snare. I'm going to make him think that I'm not here. And I want to see when he comes home and hear what happens. I'm a smart though. Because I just had, like you just have that like women's intuition thing. And at that point, years before he had, he had cheated on me. So it just, it always lingers in there.

And how old was he in comparison? 10 years older. Okay. So he was 34, you were 24. You were 24. So I, we had like two bathrooms at the time in our apartment. So I kind of set up a little pad in my bathroom and like a pillow. And like I woke up and heard him coming in at like three in the morning.

And I just kind of listened. And he was on the phone with a woman. And he was saying something along the lines of like, I wish I could come meet you. But I've got this like bitch wife and something, something, something. And this fire was just in me. And I made it known I was there. He then told me I knew you were here.

And I was just saying that to me. mess with you kind of doing what he always did. I got in my car. I drove to my parents' house in the middle of the night on Long Island. He had already called them by the time I got there because he had such a hold on my family of positioning me as the crazy one. That by the time I sort of recalibrated and came back to the city because I had to go to work the next day, he was packing up, had our assistant packing up the apartment for him to move to L.A. And so it was the final straw of sort of that night and what I knew was happening and sort of instigated, but he took the action to actually like move across the country to prove a point. And then when he was there,

is I think, and the space was there was when I was able to sort of get my feet on the ground and decide, like, I was done. Well, he was crafty because he infiltrated your family. He brought in your mom and dad onto his side, which, I mean, maybe you could speak to that because that's pretty... It was very difficult. I didn't speak to them for a minute. I had to, like, go to a therapist and write them a letter and really...

Look, it's like, on one hand, I have to honor, like, it was a breakup for them, too. Like, he, for five years, he was in their life and, like, he called my dad, dad. He called my mom, mom. Like, he was very charismatic. He's very loving. He's very genuine in many ways. He's also the other stuff. And so they were also dealing with that, like loving him in that breakup, but they weren't taking my side.

And they weren't standing up for me. And it was a difficult moment and a difficult thing to go through. But also, I think matured me a lot. and I think also helped my relationship with my parents in the end. My dad still tells me to this day that the most proud he's ever been of me is me leaving, the marriage. So dad came around. Did. Of course.

They both did. Always. Yes. Yes. But it took some time. It took some time. It sounds like the takeaway to me is like you have to advocate for yourself, even if everyone around you doesn't understand.

That's right. When you get back on the dating scene. After my ex-husband, I then. dated a restaurant tour club promoter. His name is Scott first for two and a half years. And Scott was the opposite of AJ. Except celebrity restaurant. Yes. But he, but like he had dated an Olson. Like he was like, he was like almost more famous than I was. Scott was the complete opposite of AJ. He was so reserved. He was so quiet. He was like, I just like I gravitated immediately towards him. Very safe, very authentic. Like the way he treated his bus boys was the same he would treat when

Tiger Woods walked into his restaurant butter. Like, I just, I loved it. I wanted to learn from him. I wanted to be around him. I just really, he was kind of like this onion, like all these layers to sort of peel back from this mysterious guy. And he for two and a half years, like, I think he offered me so much repair. I think he offered me a really safe relationship that still had fun and adventure, but didn't feel like I was out of my league.

or uncomfortable in any way. And he, you know, I obviously told him that I had MS, but still didn't fully let him in to what I was experiencing. I don't think I ever let anyone into what I was fully experiencing until my husband, Cutter. But after Scott, I moved to L.A. and then started dating Jerry, Ferrara, who played Turtle and entourage. and we dated for almost two years as well.

And the end of that relationship also was very much because the MS was really presenting itself. And I just didn't know how to be in a relationship with it. Didn't they incorporate that into the show? No one knew that. No, she was on the show. She was on the show. No, you were in the show in the show in the show. Yeah, yeah, but they didn't incorporate him into dating you in the show.

Oh, yes. No, that's my role. That's a role. That's a role. They were like, oh my God, it's a matter of soprano. I remember. Okay, now I remember. Yes, yes, but not MS, but yes, that's how we met. Yeah, not famous.

I'm saying that's how you on the show. Okay, I'm remembering all that now. No, I thought it was after you guys were together, they incorporated you. Or was, is that how you met on the show? No, I did. So I was supposed to just do like a one-off cameo like everybody else does because it was pretty wild. Like, I meet him on the plane and jerk him off. And like, do you know what I mean?

Like it was supposed to be like a, you know, an exaggerated version of yourself. He's my best friend's dream. To get jerked off on a plane? That's literally his dream. Just meet anyone that'll jerk him off on the plane. It's a matter of this. Anyone who wants to jerk one of my best friends off

on the plane slide into my DMs. Wow. What an interesting. Did he get inspired from Entourage? I think he's inspired. I think he's inspired by anyone.

Maybe he's inspired by Entourage. We need to find out the root of this. Because it's been a while since I've seen Entourage, unlike the Sopanos, which I've watched three times. I've only watched the Entourage once. But I remember that you were incorporated into it.

So I was just supposed to do one episode and then Doug, the creator, was like, like hang out for a couple of more this season. I'm like, duh, of course. I would love to. And then they talked about bringing me back again. And at that point, you know, I invited Jerry to like a game night at my apartment in L.A.

and my friends loved him. And they were like, Jeannie, like, go for Jerry. He's like New York. He's like your people. And yeah, we just had a chemistry and a spark. And so that was a lovely, the only actor I've been with, but a lovely relationship. Jerry is like the real deal. He's just, he's a grounded, lovely human.

But I didn't, I was so afraid of bringing, ruining somebody's life with what I came with. That's so crazy that that was the narrative in your head that you felt like you were going to ruin someone's life. At what point did you have an epiphany that that was maybe something that you were telling yourself and not true? It took my husband to make me believe that that wasn't true. And what did you think you would ruin about their life? With uncertainty, with just the instability that it brings in all the ways, physically, emotionally. I mean, this takes me on a ride. It does.

Like, even to this day, I've lived with this for 25 years, and I still have moments where it takes my breath away of how sad I am and how devastated I am to have it. There's other moments where I celebrate my strength. I feel really proud of how I'm navigating my life. But to ask somebody to come along on that with you felt unfair to me, felt scary to me, felt like how could I ever be a good partner with this? And my husband has, I think he's just such a beautiful example of unconditional love. And I think he has given me the space to explore and work through all of that stuff over the last 15 years that we've been together. And because of that, I think I've been able to see my value and what I bring as a wife and a partner.

And that this doesn't take away from who I am in any of the roles in my life. But sometimes it takes seeing yourself through somebody else's eyes to get there, you know. What a special husband? He's the best. Sounds like a winner. He's the best. When you guys decide to have kids, what is that like for you? Well, Bo, our oldest was a surprise.

Love it. So, Cutter and I, and I say this is like the ultimate divine intervention in my life. So Cutter and I had been dating nine months at that point. My husband is eight years younger than me. So hot. Yes. Cougar. I love that.

So when Cutter and I met, he was living at my best friend Joanna's house. His family that it's out there in the open, his dad had gone to prison, had bankrupt the family. He was 22 years old. He was a minor league baseball player. My best friend Joanna Swisher is married to Nick Swisher, who was playing baseball at the time. Him and Cutter would train together in the off season. I say all this because Cutter ended up moving in with them because of everything that was going on with this family. I'm there all the time because Joanna's my best friend.

One night, Joanna was like, Jamie, you should sleep with cover. And I'm like, she's like, you're in such a dry spell. He's 22 years old. He's super into you. Like, he's leaving in three weeks. Who cares? And that's what I did. I just thought it was going to be this fun fling with this like young hot baseball player. So he goes off to play. We continue the relationship. But there's a voice in my head that's like this guy is eight years younger than you. He's playing in the minor leagues. Like, what are you doing? Like you have MS. Like you're out of a work actress. Like, this is probably not the right decision, but I really love this person. And at the time, I was trying to approach the MS differently. And I was like, I'm going to do this holistically. I'm going to get off of all my medication. And I'm going to try to just do this through diet. And thankfully, it just happened to be a time when the medication was not in my system, which is not good to, you know, try to get pregnant when you're taking that type of medication that I got pregnant by accident with Beau. So I think,

call it the divine intervention because that was to me God being like, no, this is your partner and this is what you're, you know, who you're meant to be with and you're going to start this family. Joanna was pregnant with her first and my other best friend, Lindsay, was pregnant. So it was like this beautiful time and surprise. And I just think the universe telling me what my path was that I needed to go on. And what's so interesting is I believe you said in the book that when you're pregnant, the MS symptoms are not as bad. So did you love being pregnant?

I wonder what did you ever figure out why that is? It's hormonal. There's something that goes on with the extra estrogen and estradiol and the way that the body responds and they're trying to desperately to figure it out. Why can't they recreate that? So can you do? Why can't they give you extra estrogen? This may be like yeah, really dumb idea or like comment again. Like, but have, have, has anyone done any experimentation with hormone therapy?

Yes. I believe it's there's, there's so much. research and there I've met so many of the people that are working so hard to help people like me. I truly and maybe it's bullshit but it makes me feel better like I truly do believe that there are better days ahead for people that live with MS and they're going to figure something out and I'm doing the best I can to stay as well as I can until that happens. But when you're pregnant, you kind of go into remission. And it was also on top of that, on top of not feeling the normal daily stressors that I would feel physically. My body was working and it was doing something

good and it was doing what I wanted and it wasn't feeling like it wasn't betraying me or mad at me. It was such a beautiful time like feeling him and all the things that pregnancy and having a baby brings and then on top of it just feeling in harmony with my body again. What is that like though postpartum? Is that rough? I mean, I could have written a whole book about just like motherhood and postpartum because... That's your next book. We need another. Postpartum, I cannot even imagine because you feel so good you're on this high like you're saying. And then you crash.

But then you not only do you crash, you get back with the symptoms, it sounds like. And with a newborn baby and you're not sleeping and you're trying to nurse. And I was like, I call the first year of the baby's life for me, the dark year. I do not thrive with a new baby. It's just really hard for me. Something about my personality of feeling like I'm getting it wrong, of wanting to, you know, of just not, I just don't thrive in that time.

It's just really difficult for me. But I thankfully forgot all about it when I wanted to have a second. Unrelated to postpartum, but in the same kind of like line of thinking when the sopranos ends. Michael's back on the sopranos. You're talking about postpartum. Sorry, Michael. And you have done that for 10 years.

Yeah. And then I assume you likely want to continue acting. What is that transition like? Very hard. Because I imagine there's a little bit of typecasting because it's 10 years of a character. I still run into it. Yeah. And you also have the high of literally being on the biggest thing on television.

And then you almost got to like start over again. But with a whole new character, all new casting, all new cast. So what did that look like for you? It was hard. I remember getting very close to one of the first things I audition for. I mean, I had barely auditioned during that time. You know what I mean? So I remember going into one of the-

Did you do anything else during that time? Yeah, I did like a few little indie movies, TV movies. I did Will and Grace, which was really fun, things here and there, but not- That was the main thing. Yeah. So one of my first auditions that I had was for a comedy and I got to the very end. And I remember kind of feeling like, what's going on? All right.

I'm just going to go with this. And I didn't get it. And the feedback was the head. of the studio or network was like, I just, Meadow Sopranos not funny to me. Like I, I just see Meadow. I can't, I can't get past it. So yes, there's, there's that double-edged sword, right? Of any time you're on anything that's iconic or that people love so much, it's just like who they know you as and how they see you. And that's just how they want you to be. I get that. And that's why Entourage was such a beautiful gift was because it was kind of this easy transition. I'm like playing myself, we're referencing Sopranos.

It's primarily the same audience, but I'm not playing meadow. I'm playing this sort of exaggerated version of me. But I will say that it's what's been the hardest for me to deal with is coming out of the gate on like a show like that. That's, you know, forever revered is like one of the best shows of all time. And not feeling like I can keep up with that or sustain that. I've had a consistent feeling of being a failure. Because you started on the moon.

And by no fault of your own. I mean, funny enough, in an unrelated way, we talk about, you know, everybody now wants to create content online or something. There's a lot of people that seek out virality. Yeah. And they want to have like this big moment. But I think to your point, it's a double-edged sword because you get, if you start that high with that kind of attention and that could have success and then you get back

to real life and you have to like maintain a normal course of growth, I think a lot of of those people get so burnt out because they can't they're like that's the feeling i'm a working actor like i'm i'm actively auditioning i'm actively putting myself out there and there's just i've talked i talk about it in the book but i still deal with it all the time of these moments where i'm like do i still want to do this like i love acting that is that is without a question and i know that given an opportunity i will show up and give it my fucking all and do a good job but to get that opportunity is really difficult. It feels more and more difficult as you get older, as the business changes. And I don't know, I have a lot of moments where I'm sort of confronted with

like what I want. I was talking to Lauren when we first got here. Like I don't love being famous. I don't love all that comes with it. And if I'm not having the other part of it that makes it worth it. I just don't know how much I want to continue to pursue this if it's not meant for me. And you have to kind of do these, you know, when you do something for so long, you have to do these like ego checks of like, why am I still pursuing this? Is it because I, I'm still chasing some sort of success? Because the truth of matters in the end of the day, I did it. Like, I already, like, I could just say I did it. Like, I was on an amazing show for a really long time. Like, what else is there beyond that? I don't know.

But, you know, on the other hand, like, I just want to make sure I know how much I love it, but I don't want to sacrifice so much of myself. I deal with that a lot. I think fame for the sake of fame is a really bad thing to pursue. Yeah. Support for today's episode comes from Square, the business platform that helps sellers become neighborhood favorites, whether you're gearing up for a busy season or just trying to keep up with everyday demand.

Square keeps your business running smoothly from payments and POS to online orders, inventory, staff, and more all in one place so you can focus on your customers. So if you're ready to grow or streamline how you run things, Square is offering listeners up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at Square.com slash go slash skinny. Again, S-Q-U-A-R-E dot com slash go slash skinny. Start with Square and build a setup that grows with your business. Every single weekend, Lauren and I go to the farmer's market here in Texas when we can. It's where we get our groceries. It's where we get our food. It's where we teach our kids how to source good ingredients.

What we also love is showing them how to pay for services. We teach them about personal finance at a young age, and we let them use a credit card. What I love is everybody at the farmer's market has Square, and it's the easiest way to pay for our groceries. It's the easiest way to teach our children how to pay. All they have to do is tap their card, and then boom, they get that transaction. They understand what it means. We have them look at the receipt and how much they spent. And it's just an incredible thing that we get to do as a family.

So for me, as a seasoned entrepreneur, it's something incredible to watch. It's a service that I didn't have when I first started out and I wish I did have because it would have made accepting payments so much easier. So if you've been thinking about starting your own business, whether you want to work at a farmer's market or somewhere else, Square can help you do that. And like I said, it makes payments easy for everyone. Square helps you run your business more smoothly, bringing payments, operations, and insights together in one place so you're ready for whatever's next. Right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square.com slash go slash skinny. That's SQU-U-A-R-E.com slash skinny.

get started with Square and Build a setup that works the way you do. Quick break to talk about one of our favorite companies, and that is Branch Basics. Back to School season has a way of resetting everything, new routines, new schedules, and a renewed focus on what we're bringing into our homes every day. If you're someone who pays attention to what you eat, what goes on your skin, and what you're exposed to in your environment, you might want to also start looking at the cleaning products in your house. This became a no-brainer to Lauren and I when we had the founder of Branch Basics on this show

few years ago now and learned all about the toxic, harmful, hormone-disrupting chemical cleaning supplies that we were using in our house and our offices, and that's many times used in our children's school. Ever since then, we have not been able to turn a blind eye. We've not been able to look back. Because once you start paying attention, you realize a lot of conventional cleaning products containing ingredients like hormone disruption, skin sensitivity and respiratory irritation with repeated exposure, even if they're marked to look like they're safe or natural.

Everyone's heard of greenwashing. That is definitely rampant in the cleaning space. But don't worry, that's where Branch Basics comes in. Branch Basics is disrupting the cleaning space in a few really intentions. ways. They fully disclose all ingredients on their packaging, which is something most conventional cleaning brands still don't do. And here's the good news. Branch Basics is now available everywhere you shop at Target, Target.com, Amazon, and of course, branchbasics.com. Tossing the toxins has never been more convenient. For anyone grabbing the premium starter kit, you can still get 15% off at

branchbasics.com with R-Code skinny. The premium starter kit comes with the concentrate and refillable bottles for your surface cleaners, including all-purpose bathroom, streak-free, foaming handwash, and laundry. It also comes with oxygen boost for extra stubborn stains. on pots and pans, laundry, bathroom tile, and more. This kit is a great way to kickstart your human safe cleaning routine. Just use code skinny for 15% off. The Premium Starter Kit at branchbasics.com after you purchase when they asked where you heard about them, please make sure to mention our show.

Let's take a quick break to talk about free nicotine. I love this product. I personally love nicotine. And I know it gets a bad rep and that's because it's an addictive chemical. But here's the thing. If you use nicotine as a tool, it could also be an incredible cognition enhancer. It could be something that can help with mental deterioration and decline. it could also be something that you use for extreme enhanced focus and performance.

That's how I use it. I'm obviously very careful with it. But what I learned a long time ago is that nicotine can be an incredible tool if you use responsibly, just like anything else. What I personally like about free nicotine is it comes in these different strengths and flavors. If you're new to nicotine, maybe try the three milligram. If you're a hero, you can jump all the up to 15, but it comes in three, six, nine, 12, and all the way up to 15. My personal favorites are the watermelon and the mint. And what I love about this company is it's for people who want to be the best version.

of themselves. It's for people who want to perform and it's for people who want to get things done. The way that I personally consume nicotine is if I have to sit down for a period of deep work, I sometimes use it for that. Sometimes when I have to do a show and have to sit for long periods of time, Lauren and I batch these episodes sometimes are in multiple recordings. Sometimes I'll take it then. And what I like about it is it's something that really locks me in and makes me feel like I can just focus for long, long periods of time, which is so important. Also, like I mentioned, nicotine sometimes gets a bad rap. But if you really look into the data and you look into the information. There's also some other sides of the coin. Like I said, it can help guard against

mental deterioration. So if you've been thinking about experimenting with nicotine free is the one that I choose, I use it responsibly and I use it with intention. Try free nicotine pouches today at free pouch.com and use code skinny for 25% off for new customers only. That's feree pouch.com. We talk to a lot of people that have reached huge levels of fame. And what I will say is many of those people really struggle in life. Because it's this weird sense of like feeling like a sense of achievement based on other people believing

that you are important and famous and as soon as you lose that it's like very limiting I also think from like a normal course of just everyday life imagine you're just trying to go to the grocery store or go out or walk somewhere and people are gawking at you and looking at you and nobody's going to feel sorry for famous people or cry but I think there's a lot of... It's not to complain about it.

No, no. you're, but you're exactly right. And there's also just the commentary. Do you know what I mean? I think it's, especially in this day and age with with social media and how easy it is for people to, to judge you and comment on anything you said or war or did. I have such a like, like, it's in my nature to like want to defend myself or explain myself. And that just can get really overwhelming because I, I don't like, I'm really, work really hard at being a good person and being self-aware and having ownership and being authentic and honest and any time. I mean, I had to prepare myself in therapy, like putting this book out of just being like, I, I feel really proud about what I did. I've never worked harder in anything in my life and anyone's reaction to it has everything to do with them and nothing to do with me.

and I have to be okay with that because this is the most I've ever put myself out there. And maybe that's why I'm finding myself in this sort of fragile moment too of just being like, I don't even know how much I want to do this anymore because it's really difficult. If the byproduct of fame, though, is you get to do the work you love, then that's a plus. But if it's just, if you're just famous for the sake of being famous, I've never met a single famous person that enjoys just that part of it, right? because it comes with a million different things that you've got to deal with. And I actually think as you build families and you build a life,

it's actually a real risk and vulnerability, especially in the world we live in now. Definitely. Have you ever tried cranial sacral therapy? No. I don't. Do you have a person here? I have like chills.

When you're talking, something tells me that you need to go to this person. Great. I'm so excited. Lauren's got all the people. No, I'm a witch. She's got all the people. Well, I mean, she's so, I like, do all my drinks and powders in the morning. I follow everything.

This, there's this woman, Dr. Maria, that you have to see. Okay. Like, life change. No, you have, you have to do cranial secret. Okay. I don't, I, don't you think? Yeah, I think, she swears by, she loves it. I'm trying, I'm trying to get better.

But some people have a really, really great result with it. Yeah. I think you would. It sounds to me like there's like this like pull and push and pull that you're having that is all very hard to explain to a lot of people because you've had a very unique experience that you can't explain to a lot of people. Right. Which is why you're probably so close with your soprano cast.

Yes. Because they understand. Yes. But I believe that cranial sacral therapy opens portals. I love it. I'm all about it. I love it. You'll get the clarity.

Yes. I can feel like, I feel like you have a ball of yarn and it'll help you untangle what you're saying. I love it. Because you're the problem. But that's, you're saying that because that's basically her. That's you too. No, no.

Yes. But I am searching for clarity in this moment. A hundred percent. You've mentioned therapy, talk therapy, which is great. And I'm not shitting on that. And I know it's helped so many people. But there's something about using your own body to heal itself to get the clarity that you need. That's not just talking.

You know, I did do. So my son was very ill in the hospital two summers ago. Oh my gosh. Which I wrote about. And that put me into, I did E. DR for a while and then I did ketamine therapy. And in one of my ketamine therapies, one of my intentions was like, I need like how I want to understand what my body is trying to tell me. Like I, I try so hard. I don't give up. I'm I'm proud of that sort of innate like reaction that

I have to living with this. But like, what do you want from me? And I remember like when the medicine started hitting me and my therapist like she puts like a playlist on and she sits next to me and she just takes notes if I happen to speak out loud. And like the first few minutes of it like I felt like the only way I could describe it as like a model on a runway. Like I felt so good in my body and I was walking down. I felt confident and good. And then all of a sudden I was like in this like dark woods with like these thorns and I'd nowhere to go. And like the only thing I could do was just sit. And the way that I was able to kind of interpret it that was like my body, like it doesn't want me to, it wants me to almost like stop. Like get like stop doing, stop forcing and just let it do its thing. Like sometimes I feel like this white knuckle like, you know, pounding the pavement to heal to fix to do this is like almost doing the opposite. Like I'm trying to learn more now. anytime I move my body, if I go to a new type of treatment or a new modality,

I'm trying to look at it more as love and not fix and then trusting my body to do its thing. So when you're saying to allow the body to heal itself, I feel like I've been getting a lot of messages from the world in that way and feelings myself of just like, I'm ready to try it. this another way. Do you know what I mean? Instead of just being so forceful about it. It makes total

sense what you're saying. And I think with talk therapy, sometimes it can feel white-knuckled and you're trying to check it off the list. The reason I like this is because your body, it's not her. She's not, she's, and she'll tell you this. It's your body healing itself. I do explain this to Michael. It's a little hard to explain. I try it. Yeah, but she told me you're blocked. So is Cutter, by the way. Anytime I've brought Cutter to anything, you're like, yeah, Michael, he's going to do Hoffman.

It takes me a lot of cracked open. I've heard a lot of people swear by Hoffman. Yeah, I know. I've had a lot of friends that it's been really life-changing. And for Cutter, like on one hand, why he's so amazing is because he's such an incredible caregiver. He's so selfless. He worries about everybody all the time,

but he does not focus on himself. and like he's just at this moment in his life where like I'm looking at him like I'm good like you need like go and he has no idea how to sit with himself or care about himself or focus on himself so that's what we're hoping he'll get from that'll be great I can't I can't wait for Hoffman I think I think that's what do you mean aren't you isn't it all chatty isn't it all chat is that the one when you go silent the whole time no no no no no what's the one's the one we have to be quiet the whole time that's a silent retreat right yeah this is different No, this you're like talking the whole time, I think.

Oh, maybe I'll do good another day. Yeah, maybe you should go there too. The part for me that was the hardest to get through in your book was the part about your son. And what I liked about that part liked, I don't know if that's the right word. What I found refreshing about that part is that you are going through this catastrophic event with your son, but you were honest with how you felt about him when he started to and be mean to. you. Yeah. And I don't know if that's the right verbiage. No. I know what you're saying. I it's funny when he

got out, so he was in the hospital for like 37 days. He almost passed. He almost died. He was, he was in a severe state of psychosis. I mean, sleeping in a cage, restrained, like couldn't figure it out. I mean, it was hell. And I tell you all that because about a month after we all got home. I looked at Cutter one night and I was like, I missed the hospital. And he's like,

what the fuck are you talking about? And I was like, when you're in a moment like that, you're so present. I was, for 45 days, I dealt with whatever was right in front of me, minute by minute, hour by hour. And while I would never want to go through what I went through, again, or watch him more than importantly go through what he went through. I was so raw and felt everything so honestly and deeply. And there was nothing about the, I was not, I was not missing anything about the experience. And I think that a lot of what I've been through in my life almost prepared me to be the mom and the woman I needed to be in that moment.

And I don't say meaning I did it perfectly, but meaning like to allow myself the grace to go through what I went through because, yes, in the middle, I couldn't leave him even though I wasn't sleeping and my everyone would beg me take a night off. And you also are going through your own thing. And I have a mess. Yeah. And I had just gotten out of the hospital myself for something. And he was possessed. I mean, seeing what inflammation now does to a brain, ultimately was just chronic.

It made him an entirely different person. And as we got home, and to be honest, only up until very recently, what I was not prepared for was his entire personality shifted from two things. The inflammation and a near-death experience that he speaks very clearly. and what about and correct me if I'm wrong what about all the drugs too that they have to give you to get better I mean he was on incredible amounts of steroids he was on all these antipsychotics

he was on medication that I take and so when we got home we were so desperate to sort of like get back to normal and I thought I was following his lead but the only way I can describe it is like Bo has always been charismatic He's always been like he's had swagger. He's been confident and really sweet and really emotionally intelligent and connected.

But the son that I brought home, it was almost like he was on Molly all the time. Like he would wake up and be like, today's a great day, mom, you are beautiful. Isn't it amazing? And like, I was so conflicted and confronted with like, okay, first of all, I'm so great. that my son is here and he's so beautiful and he has all these lovely and amazing things to say but that's not my kid and like he doesn't sound like him he doesn't tie like i remember one time like walking into other room and being like i just want his voice back like i just want him back and he went back into school and after a couple of months and i have compassion for all those kids because

it's his mother i had a hard time with it he got destroyed i mean bullied so bad. I mean, I got him into therapy immediately, but like, only until I would say a month ago, I literally looked at my girlfriend because we were on this annual trip that we always do with all our families. And I was like, I think Beau's back. She's like, he's back. It's taken two years. And it's been such a journey of acceptance and grace for myself, for him and like all of the changes and just kind of going with it and not judging myself as a mother, which is really hard to my feelings and reactions to it. It was the most painful and difficult thing I've ever been through, but at the same time, I've never felt more love and never felt more supported. And just goes to

show me, like, just always on the other side of everything. You know, like in the other side of the coin is always something beautiful, if, you know, if you look for it. And so this experience, has shaped us and changed us forever. And it's still evolving. And I was trying to explain to Michael what landed him in the hospital in the first place. And maybe if there's something that people can look for because I know you, like, it was like you didn't know.

You think it's a fever. You think it's a flu. And you never know whether you should call the doctor or not. Yes, but this is the one thing I will say before I tell you the story is this is just another example of like, listen to. to your gut. Okay. If you know that something's wrong, even if there's somebody with a, like a plaque on the

wall that says how smart they are and everything they've done, if you feel like something is still wrong, listen to your intuition. That's what carried me through this entire experience with him. I've never, I've never been that human before the way I advocated for my son during that time. So basically, he, we were leaving a family trip and he, he said he didn't feel. good. The next day he kind of had a fever, was lethargic, not feeling good. We thought maybe, you know, he was just got a bug at the lake or he had been at sleepway camp two weeks prior. Let it ride out. Still, over the next couple of days, like a fluctuating fever, like, you know,

99, 101, but just kind of not feeling himself. So took him to the pediatrician. They tested him for COVID. They tested him for other things. All inconclusive, oh, he just picked up a random virus. He'll be fine. The next day, he kind of stopped eating and just was just not himself. So I had, I was in the hospital myself for a perineal abscess, which was really not fun. So I'm getting all these texts from Cutter, like he's still not well. I was like, well, take him to urgent care. I'm going to be discharged tomorrow. Took him to urgent care, did a chest extra, blood work, still inconclusive. I come home and I took one look at him and I was like,

mm-mm, we're going back to, we're going to a hospital now. Like, I don't like this. So it was a Saturday morning. We went to the ER, tested him again for everything. He's, he's just kind of, I'm like, this has been six days. Like, this is not my son, something else, something's wrong.

We go home that night. He starts vomiting. And his fever starts fluctuating. It's like 95 and then it's 105. And it's like all over the place. So first thing the next morning, I make sure our nanny comes to watch our other son and we go back to the ER. Again, they're testing him. And while he was laying there, he was like, Mom, my feet feel, and he's saying it really.

So like, my feet feel like pins and needles. And I was like, okay, well, I'll tell the doctor when she comes in. And he's like, and I can't pee. He said, I peed this morning, but I feel like I have to pee and I can't pee. I remember telling the nurse and the doctor when they came back. in. They're like, well, if he peed this morning, you know, they just, they just want to send you home. I remember my feet, like, not wanting to leave. Like something was like really just like inside me being like, you should not leave this hospital. But at that point, Cutter was so

exhausted between me being in the hospital and Bo being sick all week. He was like, let's just go home because they had told us basically our next option was to see an infectious disease to doctor because nobody else could tell us what was wrong. So on Monday morning the next day, you can call and try to get an appointment. I sat in his bed up all night that night just watching him. That's the most stressful thing ever. Ever. And at 8 a.m., Cutter called the office, did his Cutter thing where they were like,

oh, we have an appointment in three weeks. Somehow he managed to get an appointment for that afternoon. And I picked him up to go shower and he was screaming in pain if you came anywhere near his bladder. And I was like, fuck it, let's get in the car. So we started driving towards the infectious disease doctor's office,

which so happened to be connected to a small emergency room. And I remember us pulling in and he's screaming in the back seat and like, Cutter and I like don't know basically which direction to go to. And I was like, go to the ER. So we carry him in there,

put him in a wheelchair, and I'm trying to explain to the woman and she was like, go to the infectious disease doctor's office. Like, that's where you need to take him. So Cutter's pushing bow in the wheelchair. I get in the car because it would be faster for me to drive there. We meet there. We, like the three of us are just sobbing in the lobby.

And the woman calls the doctor out, took one look at us. And then he's like, I will walk you to the ER. Essentially, then they had to get a catheter in, which got stuck. It was a very traumatic thing, but they did an MRI, and the MRI showed that his entire brain and spinal cord was completely inflamed. And that he, they didn't know what it was. They weren't equipped to help him at this hospital, and that's when we were transferred to Dell. And then that's where the whole journey began. Thankfully, Dr. Hardy, I love you, was the neurologist who came in the next morning and immediately diagnosed him with something.

what he had called ADEM, which is like acute, dissimulated encephalitis. And it's basically any virus could have been strep, it could have been anything just kicked off his immune system and his, and, and to, and the inflammation. But what was crazy was, as I watched him deteriorate over the couple of days, which eventually got us into the ICU for 17 days, all of his neurological symptoms mirrored mine. It was bladder. It was the right foot. Then he couldn't bend his knee and then he couldn't lift his right. And I was sitting there just being like, what is like what is going on? And Bo and I are like soulmates. Like when he was born, they put him on my chest. I was like, oh, there you are.

Like he's like, he's my twin flame. We look exactly alike. We act exactly alike. And it was devastating to feel like my son was like having an experience like mine. But I, After all was said and done and everything that happened and everything that we went through, even though he was kind of with the inflamed brain and all on the high and everything, he sat with me one quiet night after all of it and looked at me and said with full conviction, I went through that for you. You need to see a miracle and a body heel. Whoa.

How old? He was 10 then. Woo. Wow. And now he's about to be 13. Wow. And he's got a toad and he's going to puberty and it's all the things. You've got quite the stories.

Yeah. My goodness. It's a full life. It's a, it's a, I think I, what writing the book allowed me to do more than anything is learn how to root for myself. Like, I like, it's like the one thing I want to tell like anyone. Like, you don't have to write a book. Like if you can go back through your life and see yourself as the main character in this movie and you see how each experience shaped you and made you grow and, you know, when you watch a movie and you see the lead character go through these hard times, it's devastating. But you see who they become because of it and all that stuff.

It's just I've been able to forgive so much and also acknowledge so much. and despite all that I have been through, I still look at my life is so blessed and so beautiful. And if anything, I just feel very armored and ready for whatever is to come. You have lived quite the life. I think everyone should go by your book. I loved it. I told you it was one of my favorite celebrity memoir, but memoir.

Yeah, there's not much. That's what I'm not giving you, I give you soprano stories, but like I'm not really like a Hollywood girl. It's more, I just feel like it's just a, Just a story, a human story. Our audience, if you guys have not read this book, and so it is, you will love this book. I gobbled it up. I feel like in like three days.

It's so good. And I didn't want it to end. Congratulations. I feel like it's so cathartic for you to get all this out. And I think it sets the tone too for your next chapter, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for saying all that.

Jamie, thank you so much for coming on. Where can everyone find your book and you? I mean, I think you. you can find the book anywhere, books are sold. There's an audio book as well. And you can find me, Instagram is just my name, Jamie Lynn Seggler. And then I have a podcast called Messy. Yeah, and you have another one too.

You said that's coming. Can we choose that? Yeah, it's actually just launched today. Oh, congrats. It's called Living With It. It's on the messy feed. And basically, I just want to highlight other people's stories. And when life hands them, you know, cards that they weren't expecting and how they've

moved through it and how they've persevered. beard. I'm just so fascinated by how people pivot in their life. And I think that they should be proud and I love to hold the space for them to do that. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much for having me.