The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Jen Atkin On Blowing Her Way To The Top, How To Break The Rules, Find Your Purpose, & Create The Life & Career You Deserve

Episode Date: December 8, 2020

#312: On this episode we are joined by Jen Atkin. Jen Atkin is an entrepreneur and celebrity hair stylist. She is also the founder of Ouai haircare. On today's episode Jen joins us to discuss how to build a career breaking the rules, finding your purpose and creating the life and career you deserve.  To connect with Jen Atkin click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by BETABRAND and their Betabrand dress pant yoga pants. To try these pants go to betabrand.com/skinny and receive 20% off your order. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you’ll ever wear to work.  This episode is brought to you by RITUAL Forget everything you thought you knew about vitamins. Ritual is the brand that’s reinventing the experience with 9 essential nutrients women lack the most. If you’re ready to invest in your health, do what I did and go to www.ritual.com/skinny  Your future self will thank you for taking Ritual: Consider it your ‘Lifelong-Health-401k’. Why put anything but clean ingredients (backed by real science) in your body? This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. Skillshare is an online learning space offering more than 25,000 courses. Join the millions of students already learning on Skillshare today with a special offer just for our listeners: Get two months of Skillshare for free. That’s right, Skillshare is offering The Skinny Confidential listeners two months of unlimited access to over 25,000 classes for free. To sign up, go to www.skillshare.com/skinny Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. So Skillshare, what is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people. You can explore new skills, deepen existing passions, and get lost in creativity. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you. Explore

your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Ha ha. You are going to be that person who has an idea, who maybe doesn't have the power or the clout,

but if your idea hits, you're then going to be that person that has power and clout, but do you own your business? So I think it's really important for people to know that like you need to be smart with your money while you're building your business model. Hello, happy Tuesday. Welcome back to the skinny confidential him and her show. That clip was from our guest of the show today, Jen Adkin, who owns Way. She is a hairstylist, entrepreneur, and columnist. She is considered to be one of the most influential hairstylists in the world. She's a dog mom, a wife, and she is a fucking badass. And now an author.

And now an author. She has a book, Blowing My Way to the Top. Love the title. Love the title. Love the title. How to Break the Rules, Find Your Purpose, and Create the Life and Career You Deserve. And guys, this book is so up everyone's alley. I feel like the entire audience is going to be so in love with this book. It gives so many tips and secrets for cutting the line. That's how she describes it, which I think is really amazing. And the title is just so good. And I really love her story. It shows how somebody from humble beginnings can really go and build a global brand, a massive personal brand, a massive following and become an author. It's a real testament to her and such an inspiring story

for so many young people or even old people included. And one of the most frequently asked questions that I get in my DM inbox, Michael, is what you use on your hair. That's what people are bothering you about? Yeah. People want to know. Just give it up. Give up the secret. I've already told people a million times.

It used to be Redken Rough Pace 12 when I did the slick back. Now it's not because it's just... What is it? It's not... I can't use the Rough Pace anymore because it's too strong. Are you one of those people that's like, oh, I can't remember because you just don't want to give up the secret? No, I was using Redken Rough Paste 12.

And now I'm using just like basically water and spray sometimes. Sometimes I use a spray. Sometimes I use this like kind of gel. But look at it. It's just long and flowing and flying everywhere. He does love Redken Rough Paste. That was when I did the slick back. But now he's doing half bun and you're using my silk scrunchie.

Yeah, I told you it's just free flowing. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's Michael Bostic's hair. Anyway, we do talk about some of Michael's secrets in this episode and your hairline we discussed. I'm sure that's what everyone's interested in. We talk in this interview about working her way to the top, moving from Utah to California, the Kardashians.

We even ask her which one's her favorite and we get into her book. It's amazing. You guys are going to love her. With that, I'll introduce you to entrepreneur and celebrity hairstylist, Jen Adkin. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Who is your favorite person that you've blown on your way to the top my husband your husband well you blew him in all different kinds of ways my favorite person i've ever blown out their hair uh i would say god there's so many i'd say like a moment that stands out for me was doing Gwen Stefani

for the cover of Vogue that's a good one I'm sure that's in the book that was pretty cool I'm sure we get to get the juice on all of that how many secrets have you heard

you know all the secrets should I just break the NDAs yeah right now I'm sure I'm sure like I was thinking when we were talking

to McCall I was like she probably has heard all of the juicy secrets. How much money do you guys have for legal fees? Not a lot. Not a lot. You're going to be on your own. Let's do this. I want to go all the way back to when you were little. Did you always know that you

wanted to do what you do and be an entrepreneur and do hair? I was always obsessed with makeover scenes in movies. First of all, I grew up in a religious, like, Mormon community. And, like, everyone watched Disney movies. My parents never watched rated R movies. Like, we didn't hear swear words in music. Like, nothing. But I remember, like, being so not into the Bible and Book of Mormon and being so into pop culture. Like, I had to have, have like posters on my wall and I just loved the idea of like glam,

like Madonna Vogue and like George Michael's like, you know, faith video or freedom. Like I just like loved pop culture so much. So I always wanted to be creative. I had no idea that you could actually like make a living doing hair. So when did you realize, oh shit, like I'm going to beauty school, I'm going to do hair and make a living? When I took that leap of faith and moved to LA in 2000 with my best friend, we like Romy and Michelle that up. It was very Britney Spears crossroads. We left like our Mormon community and moved to LA not knowing anyone. And I scored this insane job being a receptionist at a salon called Estilo that's still on Beverly and Martel. And I was like just learning the ways of the world.

I was like, wait, there's gay men? They just want to like dance with me and hang out with me but not have sex with me? This is awesome. And I remember like feeding Bette Midler and Stevie Nicks meters and just being like, where am I? This is crazy. And then that's when I really like got to dive into the hairstyling like world. When you grow up Mormon and then you move to LA and have the contrast between like, you know, what LA is compared to where you came from. Like, what does that do to the psyche in the beginning? Like, are you like,

what the hell is going on? Are you like, is there a lot to figure out or like, how did that manifest itself? Yeah. I felt like Encino man like I fully remember just being so eyes open wide it's like different worlds completely yeah I was like you know it's like going from Donny Osmond show to you know at the time god i'm trying to think in 2000 like what was all the rage i just remember like sunset being so exciting you know and like hollywood was like was perez hilton out in 2000 yeah i remember like being obsessed like perez hilton and pink is the new blog and like you know just everything about la was brand new and so exciting. When did like things start to take off for you, the momentum? I'd say probably, well, here's my timeline. Assisted in 2004 to like 2007,

then went on my own in the salon, working at Chris McMillan Salon. And then from there, I was like, okay, I have a steady business in the salon I could just you know be happy and stay in the salon but I was like no I want to learn how to do like editorial hair so I started assisting again editorial hairstylist and then I was like I want to go to New York Fashion Week and Paris Fashion Week so I started assisting on those shows and you know all those things led me to celebrity hairstyling. And I just grabbed little tidbits from each world. And that kind of created my style of doing hair. I'm sure this is in the book.

But who was the first celebrity that you did? And what was the experience like? So my first celebrity clients, I was doing extensions in 2008. And Nicole Richie tells the funniest story. She's like, you came into my house and you were doing extensions. And at the time, it really took a long time. It was like a five-hour process. And she says that halfway through, you know, she was like, oh, my God, you know, this is hard.

This is taking forever. And I was like, I know. Like, I hate this. She's like, okay. No shit. Yeah. Yeah. It was like Nicole Richie and Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears were like my first clients and Misha Barton. So like that tells you kind of the timeframe. You've done really well with really high profile clients. It seems like you have like such longevity with all of them. What do you think the trick is

compared to other stylists or hairstylists or makeup artists that don't have that kind of longevity? I always say I don't think I'm like the best hairstylist out there. Like for sure, there's people who are more skilled in different genres than I am. I think it comes down to your work ethic. And I think it comes down to your loyalty. And you just have to work hard and not be an asshole. Really. It's hard though for a lot of people. I also think that with hair and makeup, there's so much in people's energy, like your space that you have to also like come with good energy and good vibes because you're in someone's like area. I actually write about it in the book because one of the lessons that I

really learned is like, it's not about you. The chapter is called, it's not about you. No, really, it's not about you. And being in the service industry, you know, I've seen it all. I've seen people who have gotten, you know, some exposure and pre Instagram, like we're like the hot hair people or makeup people or stylist or whatever. And I've seen people who have not been, you know, respectful to their clients or they start to like believe their own hype and think that like one of my quotes is all the hairstylists that I kind of watched in the salon. It was like they had so many clothes in their closet, no money in the bank. So I kind of saw it all. But that's one thing that I think is, has really helped to drive me to my success is being able to

be in that world, but understand my role in it. I think a lot of people, almost in every industry, they make that mistake where they're like, they hit a hot moment, right? And they get some popularity and they think, oh, this is going to last forever. And I can just kind of go off on my own and do my own thing. They don't think like, okay, maybe I'm just in a really good year, a really good time. And I think they end up like, a lot of people end up shooting themselves in the foot. Either they blow their money or they ruin the relationships or they blow the trust. And then it's like, then you're literally back before step one. If people don't trust you, then you're done,

right? Fully. Especially in that space. You have to learn how to like hang close to the sun, but not get burned. Yeah. That's a hard finesse though. It's not easy. No, it's not. It's a lot of self-awareness. It's not just like you just said, it's not just all about talent. It's not easy. No, it's not. It's a lot of self-awareness. It's not just like you just said, it's not just all about talent. It's about energy. It's about self-awareness. There's like, it's a very, it's a recipe. When I imagine people talk a lot in your field, right? Like I've just seen Lauren and when she, you know, she has people doing her hair or whatever, like everybody talks. And I feel like if you get a bad reputation, then, you know, all of your clients are going to know, right? Yeah. And you know what's interesting is the more books I've studied about anything that's self-help or trying to better yourself, it's interesting the scientific knowledge behind if

you're gossiping about something or talking about someone, whoever you're talking to, they associate you with whatever story you're telling so it really is like a bad reflection on you and so i think yes it feels in the time and i actually write about this in the book as well it feels at the time like you're bonding over something that's negative but it really is just like tarnishing your whole you know reputation so if i'm telling you like a bad story that doesn't have to do with me you're going to associate that story with me subconsciously is that what you're saying yeah And I always kind of like have gone by, one of my friends told me this years ago that if somebody's talking about other people to you,

they're probably talking about you to other people. A hundred percent. Or if someone tells you a secret, they're probably telling, yeah. A hundred percent. How did you decide to start this massive company? Obviously you were content marketing for it. You were doing hair, You're in the industry. You're a practitioner. You're an expert. How did you decide one day, OK, I want to take this to the next level and do a whole business? I think being in the right place at the right time was definitely part of my story. I have so many female entrepreneur friends that we all kind of grew up together. So Jessica Alba actually is one person that I met when I was a receptionist at that salon in 2001. And, you know, it's interesting to watch, you know, her create

the Honest Company. My other friends, Hilary Kerr and Catherine Power started Click Media with Who What Wear. It's been so awesome to kind of have my clients also building their own brands at the same time. So I have been just a fly on the wall learning so much. So I felt like while I didn't go to college, I felt like I really understood social media and the power of it and how to really connect with your consumer, you know, through social media. And I loved the idea of like being a disruptive, digitally savvy, socially connected brand, and it didn't exist in the hair world. So I did my due diligence. It'd been years of, digitally savvy, socially connected brand. And it didn't exist in the hair world. So I did my due diligence. It'd been years of, you know, I was an ambassador for different brands. I got to see what it was like working for like the big brands. And the more I researched

who was behind the brands, this is before like we had brand founders that everyone knew. It was literally older white men who were, the messaging was like making women feel bad about themselves, making women feel like, you know, we have the solution for your problem kind of thing. But it wasn't like celebrating women or talking like you would to a friend. There were so many different aspects. I could go on and on. It came to packaging and scent and formulation, all of it. So I knew that I had a good idea. I had to then raise capital. I had to, you know, figure out kind of how to balance my successful career while I'm building this brand, while I'm sharing it all on social media. And I have to give so much kudos to my clients and friends who have supported me because, you know, without them and without that community that supports Way,

like we wouldn't have made it. I think people look at Way now and they like just assume like, because it's such a successful brand. They're like, oh, that it just it looks easier now than it probably was. If you could go back a few years, like when you were formulating the idea and raising capital, what would you tell your younger self? And to that end, like there's a lot of young people that listen to the show and want to do like something along the lines of what you've done. Like what would you tell them? And especially now as the landscape's changed. I tell them to buy my book. No, I would actually tell anybody who has a great idea to really save your money so that you can invest in that idea. Like you have to be able

to put your money into it so that at the end of your journey, you feel really good about where you're at. I would also say get a good lawyer. Yeah. You know, like I think that's one thing Anastasia told me that early on. She said, get a lawyer you can afford in the early days of signing contracts. And we just saw Dave Chappelle post something on his Instagram about like his dealings with Comedy Central and Viacom. Oh, that was great, by the way. So good. And I was like, I really respected that he was being so honest about it because it's true. It's like you are going to be that person who has an idea who maybe doesn't have like the power of the clout. But if your idea hits, you're then going to be that person that has power and clout. But do you own your business? So I think it's really important for people to be that person that has power and clout but do you own your business so i think

it's really important for people to know that like you need to be smart with your money while you're building your business model quick break because ritual just came out with something new essential wait for it for kids mich Michael Bostic, essential for kids. They got men's now, they got women's, they got kids, they got the whole family involved. Prenatal, postnatal, essentials, it is good. If you think your kids are picky, you guys, you have not met the parents at Ritual. They are extremely careful. We even talked to the founder and she said after scanning countless labels for multivitamins that they could rely on for their kids, they decided that they would take matters into their own hands and create one for themselves. I feel like if there's any vitamin, I am going to be feeding

Zaza when she gets older. It's going to be ritual because I know that there's no shady additives and weird shit in their vitamins. They're non-GMO, they're vegan, they got all the things. And you've been taking the vitamins for years now. Yeah, a long time. I took them. And I just got on the men's this year. So I took the essentials for probably a year and a half, two years, and then didn't know that I got pregnant, was on the essentials.

And then when I found out I was pregnant, switched to the prenatals. And now I'm on the postnatals. So they've got the whole program, okay? You got to check them out. And to get granular with you on the postnatals. So they've got the whole program, okay? You got to check them out. And to get granular with you on the kids' vitamin, if you have kids, they're perfect for picky eaters, okay? They have a natural citrus berry flavor, so they won't complain. And they're also, and this is the most important thing about Ritual, they're convenient by design. So each gummy features a three-in-one design that combines a daily multi

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Yeah, cheap legal bills scare me these days. In the beginning when I was starting out, I was like, oh, I need to go with the cheap because that's what you can afford. But when I see them now, it scares me because I'm like, what are we going to end up paying for later tenfold, right? Totally. It's much better to get a competent lawyer up front and spend the money, even if it hurts the bank in the beginning because cleaning up is miserable.

It could literally save you millions of dollars. Yes. Yeah. Michael used to say, like his dad's friend used to say, whenever you have a small business, run it like it's a big business. No. Yeah. What he was saying was in the beginning, run it like it's already a big business and put the proper resources and assets in place, legal-wise accounting, because you're going to end up having to do it later and it's going to be much more expensive and much more of a headache. And it's just a matter of if not now, how much of a headache later.

Damn, where was your dad in 2015? He used that advice how's michael's hairline what i want to know he thinks so too very strong airline thank you i didn't know that was just a little plot twist i just wanted to know he's got great hair yeah he thinks not very many guys can pull off the longer hair set we never got to meet before but it was really short and then this pandemic i've just like let it go. We don't need your whole history of your hair. Let's do it.

Okay, it's like a family tree. Start from day one. Let's talk about it. I just wanted to know how you thought his hairline was. I think it's really great. And do you have product in it right now? I have this stuff called...

He won't share it though because he doesn't want people to buy it out. I have shared it. Then say what it is. Just say it's way matte pomade. I'll try that. Let's sell it out. I've been using this stuff called Redken, but it's just like this like stuff. It's rough paste. No, no, no. I used to use the rough paste on my hair,

sure, because I slick it back, but now I can't because it's too... Wait, maybe we should get him the pomade to try. Yes. I actually, I like to meet people in person and see what you need and I'll send it to you. Okay. Okay. I'm pumped. It's probably better than what I'm using for sure. I'm sure it's better. Retail value is a lot higher. Check out Way, everybody. Okay. So I have a selfish question. Raising money as a woman is, I think, more difficult than raising money if you're a man.

Just for me, my experience. Going into some territory here. By the way, you could go broader and say life is more difficult for a woman than it is a man. Sorry. I agree. I saw her give birth, and I was like, we could never do that. You complain about a paper cut, so you can never do it. So how did you go about doing that when you said you didn't graduate from college? How did you have the tools in your toolbox to do that?

What did you do? Did you ask friends? What did you do? Yeah. Again, I think watching my friends who had raised capital for their budding businesses helped give me like the confidence and guidance. I asked like some of my clients managers, you know, I actually just recently, Sofia Vergara's manager, like longtime manager, Luis Balaguar posted about my book, and he was one of the first he has pictures of me, we were flying private, like in 2010, and probably 10. And me like on my computer computer because I was just always trying to kind of like keep my ideas organized and and taking notes and and I remember kind of just googling business

plans or I had been sent some business plans to look at so I kind of just used that as my template my guide and put the idea out there and it really was just kind of like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what stuck how long from when you had the idea like walk us through the timeline you have the idea did it take you three years to develop the product so I'd say started passing around a business plan 2013 then met my investor who is incredible we started formulating and like traveling all over the U.S. to find the right like laboratories for certain products in 2014 so it took probably about a year and a half and then we launched February 2016 I'll never forget the day it was like February 3rd. And I remember just like my phone blowing up.

Instagram was going crazy. And I- February 3rd, like Mean Girls Day? 2016. Yeah. Who knew? February 3rd. Yeah, February 3rd. So what would your advice be for someone that wants to launch a digital forward company,

like using social media? What are some tips and tricks that you have up your sleeve that you think have really worked? I would say this. Don't be naive to the fact that like the world is watching your page. You know, like I remember when we first launched at Sephora US, I was like, oh my God, this is so exciting. And the floodgates of like, when is it coming to Australia? When will it be in Germany? Are you guys going to be in Dubai? Like it was, that was stressful for me. I was like, oh my God, now we have to like figure out how to do this globally. And Instagram is incredible because you can crowdsource with so many people everywhere, but it also complicates things. Like I had to think about like environmental, the environment that people live in, in different parts of the

country and what they would need for the hair and now their body, because now we're like a full lifestyle brands. I would say crowdsourcing using the tools that Instagram has, it's such an amazing gift. Being able to take polls and, you know, I'll even sometimes go into my close friends and ask like, which color of this jar do you like? You know, I, it's so incredible to be able to, to not only crowdsource, but also create focus groups. You've built the products. So influencers and celebrities want them on their feed. Like they, they look aesthetically pleasing. It's not something you wouldn't want on your Instagram feed. Yeah. I wouldn't say that I, I keep just influencers and celebrities in mind, but like, trust me when I get like a text from one of my friends,

it's like, Oh my God, this is really good. Or like a text from one of my friends that's like, oh, my God, this is really good. Or like they post it in their gorgeous bathrooms. I'm like, oh, my God, this is great. I love getting like compliments from my picky friends, too, who are like the design snobs. It's really fun. But yeah, I think, you know, what we try to do is really just stay true to who we are as a brand, but also like learn from our followers and try to,

we try to just like not do what everybody else is doing and just do us. You're very community driven, which is good. Very. Yeah. Your husband's a photographer. He's also very successful. How did you guys meet and how do you guys work together? Michael and I need all the tips for working together.

Well, you guys know it's not always easy. No, it's not always easy. What? He hates working with me. We met at an Oscar party in, let's see, 11 years ago through Lindsay Lohan. Okay. That old romantic love story. Wait, you met through Lindsay Lohan? She's like, you guys have to meet and set you up. He was shooting her for a campaign she had. I was at my client's Oscar party. And then people on set, a mutual friend of ours and Lindsay's at the time was like, we should go to this party. And they did. And I thought he was gay.

And we sat and talked for hours. And I was like, cute. He said that like, I don't, it's funny. It wasn't love at first sight for sure. It was more like an LA combo, just like talking about work. And then we just both happened to be in Paris for Fashion Week. I was working with John Galeano at the time

and my husband was in Paris. And so we hung out during Fashion Week and had like a very, it was kind of a Carrie Bradshaw moment. Like had our first kiss like with the Eiffel Tower in our peripheral vision. It was kind of a Carrie Bradshaw moment. Like had our first kiss like with the Eiffel Tower in our peripheral vision. It was really fun. You got those Beta Brand work pant yoga pants. I like those pants.

I don't want to get you all excited. I've been liking those pants. You have been liking those pants. You guys, we are still here talking about beta brands, dress pant, yoga pants. Not only are they as comfortable as pajamas, they are also sexy. Your husband in quarantine, your girlfriend, your boyfriend, your significant other. Whoever's looking at you, let's be frank. Is going to get excited. Michael is constantly trying to pinch my ass in these pants that are as comfortable as my pajamas.

And succeeding. Okay, Michael. So if you're looking for a work from home outfit that you can zoom into the office with, these are your pants. Here's a pro tip and one tip that a lot of successful people have said when they come on our podcast, and that is to put on some real pants when you're working from home, real shirt, sort of just feel like you're together. Okay. Whenever I put on these yoga pants, I feel like I've done something productive for the day. I personally like the black skinny ones. Those are the ones I always go to. I have like three different pair, but if black's not your color, then they have

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love how your ass looks in these. I'm telling you. But was he into you first or were you into him first? For sure. I think I got stoned and was like, are you going to kiss me? So I think I was into him first. And how do you guys work together now? What does that look like? What's the day-to-day on that? I torture him and he doesn't charge me. That's what it looks like. Why do you torture me? you think i torture you yeah oh you torture me horribly she finds like little tasks for me that don't have anything like if i'm if i only give him one task at once because i don't want to overwhelm him that's the trick if i ever get one task at once and then you check that off then you can move to the next thing yeah because if i try to put too much on

mike's plate he for sure is like oh i forgot about that one thing I was like no I am such a perfectionist so when we're on set together he hates it I like to be director and I do it even when it's not with Mike and I need to like stay in my lane sometimes but I also know what I want to get and you know it's it's a hard process you're a visionary you have the vision in your head. Yeah. But by the way, and I'm not afraid to say this, he gets credit for so many things. Like I might have like a little bossy tip or tidbit or ask him like whisper in his ear or something. And then he does it. And it's like, everyone's like, oh my God, he's amazing. That sounds familiar. Yeah. It sounds familiar. Like you get the credit. I'm scared to give you an idea because then you repackage it. My favorite is you repackage it and repurpose the idea as your own. It's like giving someone a gift and then they give it to

someone else. I learned a long time ago. Always take the credit. No, you can't. He does always take the credit. Another tip from your dad. Thanks, dad. I don't know if that was from him, but it's working well. Okay. How long have you guys been together? 600 years. We've known each other since we were 12, but we haven't been together that long. We've been together 600 years we've known each other since we were 12 but we haven't been together that long we've been together for like 13 years yeah she's been obsessed with me for forever guys i still feel the sparks between you two that's a good thing we have sparks we have sparks still we have to in order to get through this craziness i mean we didn't the quarantine doesn't really make you want to get on your knees and you know any marriage it doesn't it doesn't marriage can get it. Pull your weight to the top. It doesn't. Quarantine is, I was talking to my Pilates teacher today about this.

Quarantine is not like the sexiest of situations. No, there's a global pandemic going around and a crazy virus. It's not the most exciting time for human connection. My friend sent me like a link to some lingerie brand. This stuff is so pretty. And I was like, I don't want to see this. I'm in like, I'm still in banana bread phase. Oh, like I don't need to see this i'm in like i'm still in banana bread face oh like i don't need to see this yeah yeah just sweats is fine for me this year any relationship that can get through this year if you've been in a close relationship

living together this year like that it's going to be able to stand the test of time because this is hard yeah don't you find yourself like babe we haven't killed each other and it's been seven months i know it's wild we we come on the edge of killing each other though. Well, because people think Lauren and I are together all the time. Outside of this show, we run separate things, right? And this was my office and she was at her office. And so like we had that time where we do the show. I like absence makes the heart grow fonder. You know, we need to like. Then we come together, but now everybody's all day on top of each other. Guys, be careful what you wish for because once we go back to like being on that treadmill again, it's going to be, we're going to probably miss each other a lot.

The world needed the stillness. The world needed the reset for sure. Yes, it needed the stillness. What is your morning routine, including with your products? If there's certain products that you reach for, like, do you have a whole setup in the morning or is it different every single day? I have like my beauty routine is pretty much the same. I only wash my hair like every two or three days. So here's a little tip for everybody out there. I shampoo

because I have oily roots and long hair. So I shampoo with whey detox shampoo with the roots. And then I use like our hydrating medium shampoo for the ends, like mid-length to ends. And then only do our treatment mask from mid-length to ends. And then only do our treatment mask from mid-length to ends. And then like face-wise, I am really so boring. I use Barbara Sturm's products. I love Shanta Kai and Shani Darden's products. Dennis Gross has these really cool pads that I use at night. And that's, yeah, kind of my routine. You're talking about the exfoliating peel pads, right? Those are the best. They're so good. You just see like a layer of dirt come off of your face. It's great.

Dr. Dennis is one of the best people. He's been on the show a couple of times, coming on again soon. I love him. If not, I would look like just like an old, you know, piece of dust. Well, you got to get that face chilled. Oh, he has it. Oh, I got it. Oh, he has it.

Me and Dr. D are like this. Dr. D did Botox on him on the show. First time. Are we calling him Dr. D? Dr. D. Yeah, we're like, you know. Dr. DG like this. Dr. D did Botox on him on the show. First time. Are we calling him Dr. D? Dr. D. Yeah, we're like, you know. Dr. GG. Yeah, he gave me Botox the first time I ever had it on this show while we were doing the show. Maybe Jen should come back and wash your hair on this show because that takes about an hour. Yeah, we just get all my stuff done on the show. If there's a product out of all your products that you would recommend our audience starts with, what would it be and why? For your hair, our wave spray is like one of our

first products we ever created. I like that a lot. And everybody loves it no matter what your hair is. That's my favorite product you guys have. I would say our leave-in conditioner because everyone's like hydrating from head to toe, especially this year. And then I really love our hand wash and hand lotion that just came out. It looks so chic and it smells so good. And it has like these biodegradable exfoliating beads. And it was such a passion project for the team like during COVID and quarantine. And it turned out so beautiful. Are you just as organized as reorganize makes it look like on her feed? Or is your life not as organized?

You know what's weird? My husband and I are both Pisces and we are pretty organized yeah I feel like when you have like a hectic work life you need your home like we just had our house shot for AD and it was like looking at it from like everybody else's perspective it's so cream and beige and white and like nothing's going on because it just makes us feel calm. And with Rhea, we organized shout out. She is so incredible at like putting everything in its right place. And we've been able to keep it up, which I'm so happy about. I love the cream and nude and white vibes. Can I do that with a baby? Because I feel like, is it possible? You know know what so Maison Trouvalier did our interior design

and he has the best tip that if you have kids you can live that life but you need to buy outdoor furniture to have inside oh that's smart because it's all resistant to the elements oh my god that is such a good tip yeah that is good we have this chihuahua that has this weird tick or every time he throws up, it has to be on the couch. And I'm not joking. It's the weirdest tick. He's never thrown up anywhere but the couch. It's not like

he spits up. It's not like actual chunky throw. But it's a weird, like he can't throw up anywhere. I don't know what's happening, but it's only on the couch. We either have to have outdoor couches or we got to get rid of the dog. No, the outdoor couch is such a good tip you just wipe it out you cannot get rid of the dog i know i can't okay i'll get rid of you before we get rid of the dog that's a good tip though outdoor furniture inside and actually there's like really chic like restoration even

west elm like they have really chic outdoor furniture you would never know that's smart i might steal that might be redoing some things inside. Your dog will thank me later. Yeah, it's a poor dog. Is there like a ritual that you do in the morning at night or is it just wake up, check my emails, go? Oh, no. Is it a whole routine? I have a whole thing I do in the morning. Jingle bells, jingle bells. It's the holidays. What are you getting people for Christmas, Michael Bostic? This year, I think I'm going to get them a class with Skillshare. Ooh, I feel like my whole entire family will love that. The gift that keeps on giving. Go and learn something new. Learn a new skill, everybody.

That is such a good gift. Instead of getting your Aunt Susie some kind of pan or your dad that new pair of slippers, get them the gift that keeps on giving. A skill, a skill they can use to go and buy themselves 80 pans on 100 slippers. You know what? I'm not going to get my dad those flannel pajamas. You just inspired me. So Skillshare, what is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people. You can explore new skills, deepen existing passions, and get lost in creativity. Talk about a great platform for 2020. I mean, you know, so many people have been at home, more time on their hands. Many students are sitting at home, not being able to go to

school. Skillshare is the answer for you. They have so many courses, like Lauren said. One of my favorites is a course by Greg McKeown. He's been on this show. He wrote a book called Essentialism, and it teaches you how to be more productive. I would definitely check out that class. In addition to that class, they have classes on how to build websites, how to be a better photographer, how to do graphic design, how to start a podcast, how to manage your time, how to invest. Basically, they have a skill for everything taught by people like you and me. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free

trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning. So I'm going to tell you pre pandemic, just like chasing the day as always, I went and this is a whole other podcast, but I went to the Hoffman Institute, like around this day as always. I went, and this is a whole other podcast, but I went to the Hoffman Institute like around this time last year. And so like I figured out a schedule for the first time in my life. I actually am not like on a plane twice a week

and I'm home and I was like, I need a routine. I just Googled habit tracker, printable habit tracker and started using that to just like make sure that like I'm doing my gratitude journal. I use five minute journal. I love, I do the Hoffman Institute's meditations in the mornings and like even drinking water, remembering to drink water. Like I keep it all in my habit tracker and it's really, I'm 11 months in now and it's been such a game changer. So I now have, my mornings are so planned it's actually in

my phone every day it's so I'm so cheesy but I do gratitude journal take the dogs out have coffee meditate shower get ready and then I now instead of like being on my phone on my computer and then like all the different things at once like so many screens and constantly being disrupted. I now will take my phone and put it into airplane mode for 90 minute segments. And that's when I do emails and actually like get work done, Zooms, whatever I need to do, and then take a break, do another chunk of like creating content in the afternoon. But I have it all on my calendar mapped out. So now I have like a full routine. Can you explain what happened? So I've talked to one of my business partners went to Hoffman and had what he says was an

incredible experience. It just something that didn't they burn? Didn't we lose? It just burned. Yeah, but they've moved locations. So they're up and running. Can you explain that experience and like to somebody who's unfamiliar with what Hoffman is, like what it can potentially do for someone?

Tell you the book would have never happened had I not gone to Hoffman. I felt finally at a place where I was like, okay, I left Hoffman. And I'm like, I feel like a grownup now. And I feel like I can actually share the tips that I got there. And also from my journey being a celebrity hairstylist and a business owner and put it all together. So the book isn't just about, you know, celebrity. It's not just about business building and mentorship and all that. It's also about like taking care of yourself and spirituality and all the things. So Hoffman, I will tell you, going into it, it's a week. You give them your phone. You don't have your phone for a week. No electricity at all, right?

What is Hoffman for someone that doesn't know? Because I don't know what it is. Oh my God. Katy Perry might've gone there. Is that who, is that where I heard about it? Yeah. Katie told me about it. Okay. I think I saw it in an interview. So what is it though? Exactly. I don't want to even say retreat because it's not like you're getting pampered. It is a, God, it's called the Hoffman process. And basically it's like, it's a psychotherapy camp. So you go and you give them your phone for a week. And I can't divulge too much about what you do, but I will say this. To sum it up, it's 10 years of therapy in one week. And I am a therapy goer.

Like my husband and I both have, like, that's the one thing I can tell everyone. If you're in a relationship, go to therapy because it just helps you to like bring the best out of each other. So my husband's been a Hoffman. It really helped me to realize the bad things I was doing in my life that like I was a slave to my own busy schedule and getting validation from work and not being connected to my family like I used to be. Just so many different things that like I couldn't really sit

without my distractions and without like my busyness and the schedule and like look at myself and like think okay so some of the things I do I learn from my parents and like before I have kids I don't want to pass it on to my kids so let's figure this out and it's we've had several friends and family members and members from our team go and it's been awesome to watch everyone kind of come out. Did you go with your husband really quick? You cannot go with anyone that you know.

Okay. Let me ask you this. So like, and this is kind of what I asked my partner when we were talking about it. Say, like, I know I probably have a lot of issues that I got to work through, but I would say also at the same time that I'm a fucked up person that's also high functioning, right? Like I feel like- I got that vibe from you. Yeah. First thing. Yeah. I'm kind of like out there, but I also feel like things are going well. Like business is

going well. Like I'm okay in a relationship, got a child. And like, so I feel like I'm functioning, even though I may have issues that I got to figure out. Going into a Hoffman, I think the fear would be from someone like me. It's like, what if you strip away the things that make you function while you're going into like whatever trauma or anything you got to work through your head? Or does it do that? Or is it like more like it amplifies the good things and gets rid of the bad? Like kind of just trying to understand it in that way.

I'll tell you this. For that week, you are in small groups. You also have a big group that you and I don't want to make it sound like it's like a rehabilitation center because it's not. But you don't talk about your actual name. No one knows your actual name and no one knows what you do for a living. You're not allowed to talk about that because that is that mask that we wear of like our job. Oh my God, that sounds amazing.

Yeah. So really, and it's not about networking, none of those things. It really is about- No one's an opportunist trying to like- No, no. But you go in there. I being like what am i doing here i actually have the best life like i shouldn't be complaining about anything this is crazy and i left being like oh my god i was so fucked up that's what i'm scared of but no it feels good because they give you the tools to like recognize deal with it oh my god like i used to like be that person that like never and again like mormonism there was definitely a lot of

perfectionist patterns for me and i was the person that like never lost my shit and i was like oh everything's totally fine pleasantville you know and then would like burst because the anxiety just hit a level and now i feel like i'm so glad i went i I think, you know, this year has brought out the best and the worst. And I think it's like had us all sitting and really reflecting and looking at ourselves. And it is uncomfortable for sure. I will tell you that. It's not easy. Like, I wanted to leave twice.

It's not easy. But when you go through it, you just feel like, oh, my God, I'm an adult. I actually like I was 40. And I'm like, I feel like an adult and I love my parents in a way I never have before. And it's just really, really amazing. You kind of generally spoke about something. Is there other little things that you noticed about yourself? It could be something so little, like something so micro, like what were like some things that you saw that you kind of got through that have made you

come to the other side? Like you said, for instance, you wrote your book, what was holding you back from writing your book in the first place? It's interesting. Harper Collins, actually, I had my first meeting with them and they pitched the idea and I was like, I don't really have a story to tell. Like I am not, you know, Phil Knight shoe dog. Like I, you know, I felt like, what do I know? And as I started going, so I basically after Hoffman was like stay off your phone be more present be centered let's like really look and take time to reflect on your journey because I haven't had that time you know even running a business like you guys know this as well it's like you never really

get to celebrate the wins because you're constantly thinking about new innovation new new new what's going to happen in like six months eight months and. And I was just planes, trains and automobiles and Cannes Film Festival, Met Ball, commercials, so many things were going on. And I have not had time to like stop and reflect on my journey. And so when I went through BlackBerry photos from 2006 to present day every year, I'm so organized. I wrote down every job I've ever done. And like the photographer I worked with, it's so weird. And I went through that and like reflected on what I've learned from clients and just, it, it just flowed. It just, all the stories and everything just came together and it was so, so therapeutic. What is your book about? Tell us why someone should buy it. What value do you think people are going to get out of it? I would say the book is a coming of age story. You know, it's kind of like,

I keep joking that it's like the Book of Mormon on Broadway, mixed with like Romy and Michelle, but also like, like a Ryan Murphy, you know, show. I don't know. It's, it's really, it's, it's a guide to help you skip the line. And it's something that I wish existed when I moved to LA in 2000. I felt like I needed all of this advice. And it's also done with a touch of humor so it doesn't get boring. Is there something micro, like a little story you can tell us in the book that you think that people just want to know more? Yeah. I'll tell you a couple actually. We touched on this, but I talk about being a woman, not having any sort of degree and raising capital and having those weird dates with venture capitalists and private equity guys. Which is really,

really fucking hard. Yeah. It's intimidating and also kind of annoying because a lot of times I was spoken to in a condescending way. And I remember just being like, okay, just grin and bear it. I tell a story about when I was young. I, so Mormons give up 10% of their income every year for tithing. So that goes to help the less fortunate and the church. And I didn't realize once I got baptized that my parents have, they do like a family meeting with your bishop at the end of the year and talk about how much each family member has given for the year I had been giving empty envelopes saving my money to buy like hello kitty erasers and probably John Stamos like t-shirts or whatever and my parents found out and that was like you know that's when

they were like okay we got to figure this out fun tidbit, I go into the Dave Matthews band story. And you guys, it's I can't make this up. And I hope he doesn't take a restraining order out. But the reason I moved from LA to sorry, from St. George, Utah to LA was because of Dave Matthews. I got to meet him on a movie set and he was like playing guitar for my friends and I. And he was like, like, what do you guys want to be? And she's like, I want to work in fashion. I'm like, I want to work in beauty. And he's like, you totally should. And it was like, I was like, what? Yes, he's right. Dave Matthews gave me the courage to follow my dreams.

And that is why I'm here today. Dave Matthews, Crash Into Me. Remember that song? That is the best song when you're just vibing in the car. Oh, yeah. Like in high school when I got my like brand new

like Ford Explorer and like drive me. So sexy. Ford Explorer, Crash Into Me, Dave Matthews band. Her license plate said, Daddy bought it, I got it. No.

Yes, it was horrible. Projectile. Horrific. And I was dating this girl at the time and she pulled up and like, we were being bad.

We're married now, so I feel like the girl's forgiving me. She's married now with kids. And like her car that said, it said love for lore on the license plate and then the bracket said,

Daddy got it. I bought it. It was parked right in front and gave us a fully away. Yeah, I think that she was pretty mad. Oh my God. It was parked right in front, gave us a fully away. Yeah. I think that she was pretty mad. It was a very distinctive Ford Explorer. With a heart crystal, like hanging in the air. That by the way, it was enough for me to, I would lose my shit if I was that girl. Heart crystal. It was pink. It was, it was on brand. Okay. If you were giving advice to our

audience, as Michael said, there's a lot of millennials and they're just starting out. And obviously with the pandemic, there's a lot happening. What advice, what are a couple of tips that you would say? Oh, God. I would say try not to lose your momentum and to not lose sight of your goals. We might've had a hiccup. There's been a pause. I think this year has not been about making money, but it's been about, like I said, again, like self-reflection and really connecting. I think having an emotional connection

with people in your life because we can't hug and see each other. It's like, it's been hard. But I would say this, this is kind of, another reason why I wanted to write the book is in high school, we don't really learn about finances and about like how to invest. We don't really learn about like what stocks are or, you know, how to budget your life. And I remember being in a lot of credit card debt when I moved here because my family literally I know it sounds so cliche, but like I had $300 when I came here.

So it's like I was living off of credit cards. There's a whole story about that, how to get out of that credit card debt. And if you're not great at handling your own money, hire someone that is. So like, that's my biggest tip is, is hire a bookkeeper. If it's a friend that you can pay whoever it is. Like I remember getting audited for like $45,000 and I was probably 26 at the time because hairstylists are and complexuate so much. And I remember being like, holy shit, what am I going to do? Like, I don't have this money. That's the year that I hired my business manager. And, you know,

I would just say like, don't try to be good at all the things if you're not, you know, like outsource and get creative. It's a real disservice that they don't teach kids more about finances. Because even for me, and I've always been kind of more of a numbers guy, but it wasn't until the last three or four years that I started getting a real handle on it and understanding money. Tell her the book you read that changed it. I do think that every... I mean, it sounds cheesy, but...

Rich Dad Poor Dad? No, but that's a great book. But I think, honestly, for an in-depth, but also understandable and digestible explanation around money and index funds and savings and stocks and like how you set up, like, you know, even how you set up your 401ks and like all the little things or how you participate in a company 401k. Tony Robbins' book, Money Master the Game is long, but it's really, really good. And I think young people, like, I think it should be taught because what he did

is he spent a few years going and interviewing all the top money managers around the country and basically just making it digestible so young people could understand how to take care of their finances. Today's podcast is brought to you by Tony Robbins. Tony Robbins and Hoffman. Of all the things he's done, that's the thing that I point to the most because it is really digestible and it gives an understanding. You're just not taught this in school. That's so smart, honestly. I remember my dad would sit me down and give me fake contracts to sign for my car and insurance just so I kind of got into the rhythm. But really though, I feel like I just did not, I was not prepared for building a life and then, you know, having money to invest in business. And it really is, that is really smart to, to read. I love Tony Robbins. He's great. I mean, and I think even

in line with Rich Dad, Poor Dad, like in paying yourself first, I think that's a concept people don't get. And like when you say paying yourself, like putting that money aside to save, to invest in the business or future before you even pay your taxes or take on expenses or your rent like you got to set something aside I think it's a hard concept for people to grasp totally I mean I joked with my business manager early on because I was like I'm essentially paying you part of my income to do what like my parents did in high school like give me an allowance teach me about like savings and it really is funny because I remember the first year with them I'd like sneak my credit card to buy things because like I needed to be flossy and feel validated by wearing like cool things that I couldn't afford. And I remember my business manager was like, you do know like you're

stealing from yourself. I was like, yeah, okay, I'm going to stop doing that. But don't you feel like for young- I might need a business manager, geez. For everybody though, especially young, I think, especially this year, everybody's so anxious about their finances because like you said, it's been a really difficult year to make ends meet and make money. A lot of people are hurting. But don't you feel like once you understood finance a little bit more that it became much

less scary? Like once you understood money, like, because I think people don't understand and don't know. So they're overwhelmed and shocked and scared about what's going on with their finances. But if you just understood it and take the time to learn about it, it becomes much less scary. I mean, guys, it really is true that like money can be the root of all evil. It can like, you can get obsessed with it. It can take over your life when you have a lot of it. It's an issue. And I think like not having it, but also like standing in your own way is a problem. And my shout out to Melissa Morton, a gal fan,

that's a business manager of probably 13 years now. She has a whole part in a chapter where she gave her tips for people that are just starting out. I need to read that part. What's your favorite Kardashian? I can't answer that, Khloe. I thought you were going to say Kris. Oh, for sure. Come on. You know what?

There would be no Khloe without Chris. What I like about the Kardashians, Scottie has been on this podcast twice. And this is what I like about them. They made glam its own, like, I don't want to say entity, but like they like branded glam and they started bringing them in front of the camera. And I feel like a lot of people have tried to make it seem

like they effortlessly look like this. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like the Kardashians normalized it. Oh, for sure. Listen, I lived it. I my life has been changed because of it. I posted about this on stories the other day because it really is true. Like I I get sad when people don't give credit to their glam squad because they really do work hard. And yes, they get paid. But also, it's just like, we live in a world now where Instagram is changing lives. And like you tagging that person, I can say, first and foremost, like my life was changed because of that small bit of shine and gratitude that they would give us. And it really is so important, I think, to support artists. I agree. I think it's so cool too. Like so many people are blowing up. It's so cool to see all,

like you said, you never know what can happen when you tag someone. So tag your glam squad. Yeah. Tag a glam squad today. Tag a glam squad today. Even if you don't work with them, tag them. Where can everyone find you? Where can everyone find your book? Where can they buy it? Pimp yourself out. Tell us your websites. Everything.

Oh my God. Okay. So if you want to learn more about me, you can follow me at Jen Atkin Hare on Instagram, Twitter, all the things. The book, you can go to HarperCollins. I have a whole link for all the places you can get it worldwide.

It's called the landing page. And it's sold wherever books are sold. Please support independent bookstores this year. They need it so much. But you can find us like Barnes & Noble, Target, Amazon. Blowing My Way to the Top is the title. And then I also have At The Way is the lifestyle brand, beauty brand. And At Main Addicts is another company that I have that is helping to support hairstylists and working kind

of a younger audience. And we have younger stylists that work with us that are doing really cool like how to's and content and stuff. So Maine Addicts is more content driven and way is obviously the product. And then for your Instagram, what can we expect there? Like what's the what are your stories? What's your vibe? What's your brand? You know, I kind of cleaned things up. Like three months ago, I was like, I've just really I felt a little scattered. So I was like, I need to like, feel a little bit more elevated and elevate my content. So you will see what you want to see because I asked people to see on my page. It's going to be tutorials on reels. I've been having so much fun with that. I love kind of showing just my everyday on stories. And then the grid is, it's going to get,

it's going to get a little flossy here and there, but also educational. You know what I think would crush it for you? This is just like a, my own like thinking. Did you see the Instagram just released guides? Have you seen that? Oh, I only have like 12 of them made already. Oh, okay.

Overachiever. I feel like that's going to crush it. I don't even have the feature. Yeah, you got to get it. Well, for what you do, I was just thinking like there's so many guides you can create. More content though.

I know. But you know, guides, I'm so, because I love to organize things. Guides for me. You love a good guide, huh? I like have holiday guides. I even have like a charity tab

I posted yesterday. So you can give the gift of giving to someone that needs it. And how do you do that on your stories? It's in my guides. It's a guide. Okay, I'm going to look at your guides. I'm subliminally telling you

to get on the guides. I have been wanting you to come on the podcast for so long. I'm so happy that you finally got to come on, come back anytime. Blowing my way to the Top, How to Break the Rules, Find Your Purpose and Create the Life and Career You Deserve. Thank you so much for coming on. And thank you, HarperCollins, for letting me call it that.

Yeah, HarperCollins. It's a great title. It's a great title. It's a conversation piece. I love it. Thank you guys for having me. Thank you. This is so fun. Hold up, wait, don't go. Do you want to win a copy of Jen Atkins' new book, Blowing My Way to the Top? All you have to do is tell us who you want to see next. All you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode with Jen on my latest Instagram at The Skinny Confidential, and one of you will win her new book. It is so major. It is so cute, and it's perfect for your coffee table. Thanks so much for listening, and we will see you next time. This episode is brought to you by Ritual. You guys know I'm a human guinea pig and I'm still here taking Ritual and loving it.

Okay, it's filled with iron, vitamin E, magnesium, folate, and omega-3. Kind of everything. It's made in the USA without synthetic fillers. 95% of women do not get the vitamins and minerals they need on a daily basis. So Ritual created a smarter vitamin with the nine essential ingredients women lack most. Go to ritual.com slash skinny today to choose clean ingredients backed by science. Sign up now at ritual.com slash skinny. This episode is brought to you by Skillshare. So Skillshare, what is Skillshare? Well, it's an online learning community with thousands of inspiring classes for creative and curious people. You can explore new skills,

deepen existing passions, and get lost in creativity. So if you're looking for a gift to get someone in your family who's creative or curious or wants to develop more skills, this is the gift for you. Explore your creativity at Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny and get a free trial of premium membership. That's Skillshare.com slash skinny. Happy learning.