The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Jenny Mollen On Mom Guilt, Threesomes, Couples Therapy, & Narcissists

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

#562: Today we're welcoming Jenny Mollen to the show. Jenny Mollen is a writer, actor, Instagram personality and New York Times bestselling author of the essay collections I Like You Just the Way I Am and Live Fast Die Hot. Named by The Huffington Post as one of the funniest women on both Twitter and Instagram and named one of “Five to Follow '' by T Magazine, today Jenny joins us to talk about all things relationships, being married to former co-star Jason Biggs, and the infamous threesome story. She also gets into her childhood & divulges how she had to grow up at a very young age, and how she had to learn how to be a parent whenever she didn't have a good example of one for herself. Lastly she gets into how she's healed from her childhood, why every couple should go to counseling, and how she balances her career, family and all the other hats she wears. She also gives us the scoop on her new book: Dictator Lunches, parenting hacks & more.   To connect with Jenny Mollen click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE Subscribe to our YouTube channel HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Sakara Sakara delivers science-backed, plant-rich nutrition programs and wellness essentials right to your door. Their ready-to-eat meals are nutritionally designed to deliver results—from weight management and eased bloat to boosted energy and clearer skin. Go to Sakara.com/skinny or enter code SKINNY at checkout to receive 20% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by AG1 AG1 is way more than greens. It's all of your key multi-vitamins, minerals, pre-and probiotics, and more, working together as one. Go to athleticgreens.com/SKINNY to get a free 1 year supply of vitamin D and 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Hiya Health Hiya Health fills in the most common gaps in modern children's diet to provide full-body nourishment our kids need with a yummy taste they love. Go to hiyahealth.com/skinny to receive 50% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by HelloFresh With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Visit hellofresh.com/skinny50 or use code SKINNY50 at checkout and get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box. This episode is brought to you by Topgolf The Topgolf experience has a vibe – it’s all about play and having fun. Download the Topgolf app today & book a bay. This episode is brought to you by Jenni Kayne Find your forever pieces at Jenni Kayne and get 15% off with with promo code SKINNY at jennikayne.com/SKINNY Produced by Dear Media

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So you're going to go to sakara.com slash skinny or enter code skinny at checkout. That's sakara, S-A-K-A-R-A dot com slash skinny. And you get 20% off your first order. Sakara.com slash skinny. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur a long time before Jason. You know, so the way I met him was that they gave me these audition tapes.

I was auditioning for this movie and one of the guys was trying to sleep with my sister. So he said to me, do you want to see the tapes? Do you want to see the other girls you're up against? And he's like, while you're at it, I want to show you the two guys we're choosing between. One is this guy, whoever it was, and the other guy is Jason Biggs. And instantly, like the hairs on the back of my back went up where I'm like, Jason Biggs, fuck him. He's famous. I'm not famous. Like give it to the underdog. Why would I want this guy to get more success in life? Like I was already pissed. So then we ended up in Boston together for three months doing the movie. And then we were married six months after that. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome back to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. That clip

was from our guest of the show today, Jenny Mullen. And today we're covering a lot of ground once again. Quick reminder for everybody that's tuning in right now, our YouTube is up. It's functional. It's thriving. It's kicking ass. All full-length videos, current episodes, and future episodes will be there. We're also going to go back into the archives and get some old episodes that just crushed, put them up there for you to see. Just go to Skinny Confidential YouTube and check out all of the episodes full-length. You can now watch them all. Enjoy. Jenny Mullen. I am so excited. I am a huge book nerd. Michael knows this about me. I think it's one of the things that really unites Michael and I. We both love to read. So whenever we have an author on the podcast,

I really geek out. And Jenny is someone who I have read her books forever. She has so many good ones. You have to go check them all out on Amazon. And so to have her in the flesh and be able to ask her about some of these funny stories was so fun and so iconic. We were laughing the whole time. She is hysterical. You also might know her husband, Jason Biggs. We know him from so many different shows, including American Pie, which was like all the rage when we were in high school.

She's a writer, an actor, an Instagram personality, a mom, a wife, a New York Times bestselling author. I mean, she really does it all. She's also very self-deprecating, honest, and real. And I personally took a lot out of this episode. On that note, Jenny Mullen, welcome to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. I cannot get into this podcast without asking you this question first. You got to tell us the threesome story.

I know you've probably told it a hundred times, but you got to tell it for Michael and the audience. Oh my gosh. I mean, I haven't told that story in years. I don't really. Huh? Where do I even begin? We're getting right into this. It was years ago.

I mean, I hope it's not too played out, but basically it was Jason's. What was it? It was the first year we were married. It was his birthday. And I think I was just going through a lot, having, you know, kind of become a wife so quickly and being in this committed relationship. And part of me felt like, am I going to be fun ever again?

Am I still exciting? What can I do that's different? What can I, what kind of birthday gift can I give him that I don't know, raises an eyebrow. And so I decided, I was like, I'm going to like get a hooker. I'm going to hire a hooker. And so I was with, I was in LA. I mean, it's so long since I've even thought about this. I was in L.A. I mean, it's so long since I've even thought about this. I was in L.A. and I called my friend Chelsea Handler, who, of course, has access to everything, all sorts of contraband, including hookers. I said, I need to find a girl that will come over to the house and have sex with us. And she's like, OK. She gave me the number of this massage therapist.

And the massage therapist came over. And I remember getting into lingerie and trying to be like really cute for her and she was just so professional it was like very offensive like how professional like too professional she was like talking about like my rotator cuff and I was like when does she like make a move on me nothing's happening and then she was talking about how like offensive it is that like people think that she would be a hooker and I'm just getting more and more pissed and does your husband is your husband there he was downstairs first I thought like that we would hook up and then like I could like call him in you know I don't know how I thought I'd play it but anyway she ends up like pitching us

this pilot idea for Jason and the whole thing just gets terrible and I called Chelsea I'm like the girl like did not even make a move on me she did not even try to have sex with us and Chelsea's laughing and laughing and she's like well that's weird because like

she totally you know has had sex with other friends and I'm just like what's wrong with us so then we were going to Vegas

the next week it was our friend's birthday and I was determined to find a hooker in Vegas so I was looking on this app. I hired this girl. She came over. She looked nothing like her picture. When she walked in, she's like, you know, she had said it was going to be $500 and I gave her the $500. And then she

looked at me and she's like, well, that was just a walk in the door. It's going to be extra if you want me to do anything. And then I didn't have any more cash on me. So I'm like, Jason, well, we have to like, let's go to the ATM. Let's get more cash out. We'll come back. We'll be right back. And Jason didn't want to leave her there. So I had to stay with her while she was like, you know, scheduling her manicure and not at all interested. And he goes downstairs. He's like, well, it won't work. The ATM won't let me take more cash out. And so then I'm like, Jason, you totally embarrassed me in front of the hooker. Now she thinks we can't afford her. Like, this is just all going wrong.

And so we're like, can you take a rain check? Could you come back? And she's like, well, just call me if you guys get more money. So she leaves. With the 500, though. With the 500 that I never saw again. Yeah. And then we call.

So then we call another girl because Jason's like I'm not even attracted to that girl like she looks like a little lily fusion like you know the little people that like tie you up like in Gulliver's Travels let me tell you something here the picture she was this glamazon when she came she was literally like the size of this table so he was just

not going well so then Jason ended up calling one of his friends who sent another girl over when she got over she's like i'm not into girls but like i could go home and get my toys and use them on you and i'm like i don't want you to use your toys why would i want her toys used on me like that was it was just all bad so then i went to the mini bar and was like eating chips and like she was went down on jason and then she asked me if I wanted to go down on him. But like, why would I want to?

That's why I'm paying her. Like, what would be the fucking point? Let me tell you what I got. Hold on. Are you eating chips while you're? Yes. And then he was like, are you watching? Because he's like, this is not hot.

Well, let me tell you what I got for my first birthday when we were after we were married. I think I got a scrapbook that she made of herself. So it was just a book of me to look at. That's not true. I gave you, I gave you, I gave you Hershey syrup situation. Yeah,

but not for my birthday. No, this is, this was, this is very, I've given you some good things for your birthday. This is far removed. Okay.

Well, next time I'll take you to eat chips in Vegas while you get a blowjob from someone that you don't find attractive. I need to make a scrapbook of like pictures of me that Jason can release in the event that I go missing, like pre-approved photos. Cute. So that he's not choosing them because he would. I know. Can you imagine?

Can you even imagine the photos your husband would release? Any photo on my husband's phone needs to be burned and destroyed. It's disgusting. He'll like send me a photo. I'm like, how did you even get that angle? Like, how is this even like. What position were you in? Like the worst light I've ever seen like my

note like i've never seen anything like i agree okay so you're eating chips yeah watching her go down on your husband at the same room or you're downstairs no i was just there with them okay so is that weird to watch another girl go down on your husband or is it kind of hot no it was like boring i mean it wasn't as exciting as i wanted it to be because in your mind do you think it's exciting do you think the chips distracted from the situation she's like you want to eat me out and i'm like no i'm eating these now it's too late like no yeah i feel like the chips are what maybe threw everything off because i mean it was thrown from the beginning i think like truly was not a good idea on my part i could

have like i should have been like taking like a more like sexual approach, but I was just then like in the business of like, can I ask you one very important detail? Yeah. What kind of chips were there? Oh my God. They were like, you know,

kettle chips, the ones that come in every mini bar. So he's sitting there getting blown and you're just like crunch because kettle chips are crunchy as hell. So you just, Oh, I don't know. Yeah. So did he like it or no? No, he're just like crunch because kettle chips are crunchy as hell so you just oh i don't know yeah wait so did he like it or no is he like no he was just like why did this happen to me so if you were to go if someone's listening and they want to plan a threesome for their

significant other the takeaway is that like you really you really have to plan it like you plan every second you really need to plan it out and you need to know that the girl see like i was very offended i was like why would you want to hook that the girl... See, I was very offended. I was like, why would you want to hook up with him and not me? Then I got into a competitive thing with my husband, whereas I felt like I was really bringing something to the table for her, and she did not. That's how I would feel, too.

I mean, I was so offended. So it was hard. So what's the goodbye like? She told us some stories of other people that she had worked with, and those were interesting. And then the goodbye was just sort of a, yeah. She took her money and left. I wonder if she's still in the business.

Isn't that breaking patient confidentiality? She's allowed to just like blab on about people? Oh my God, she told us everything. What do you think she's saying about you guys now? She's like, listen, they were everywhere. I'm sure she's like, I'm in a book now. These fucking idiots. Now we're talking about a podcast.

Yeah, exactly. As your Instagram grows and grows, she's like, shit, I should have hooked up with her wrong twice. No, my Instagram is just all like to make her fall in love with me. It's like, really? You're missing this.

Since that birthday gift, what have you given your husband that's been special? How do you top that? Oh my oh my god now for his birthdays no now we just like take trips like eating trips he likes to eat so we go we go places to try different foods your kids like to eat too yes one more than the other but yes you have like you guys have to go see her Instagram dictator lunch dictator lunches or dictator. Yeah, dictator lunches. OK, how did you like come up with this idea? Because it's genius because they really are dictators. They don't eat anything. I'll make a five course, not really, but like my kind of five course. Yes. And she doesn't eat it. Yeah,

totally. I know. Like, I know. Well, you know, it started with just like I was just trying to entertain myself, but I would send him to school with, you know, you had to send lunch to school with the kids when they were in preschool. And I felt like, you know, how you pair how you are as a parent is always kind of a reaction to like whatever kind of parent you had. And since like I didn't really have parents, I feel like I'm making up for that with I needed to send them with these movable feasts. It couldn't just be a PB&J and like a bag of carrots. I wanted to just like give them this bounty because it was sort of for me a way of sublimating my own guilt being a working mom. it was a way for me to like have constancy with them even when I wasn't around and like a dialogue almost so they would open the box and be entertained and feel you know kind of that I was with them even when I couldn't be and it started off where I would just I would send I don't know like you know I sent like a Chinese bao bun and then instructions for the teacher on how to like re-steam it in her microwave.

And they kept getting more and more pissed off. But like the thing with me is like when people get mad, it really just encourages me to go further. So then I was like, oh, really? She thought that was fucked up that I'm going to send fondue with like a little like, you know, little skewers and meats and cheeses and little bread pieces and she has to like reheat the cheese for him. We got yelled at the other day

for sending too many sliced strawberries. Yeah, is the teacher yelling at you? Oh yeah, I was brought in and they told me I couldn't send the pit

in the avocado that they didn't want to take the pit out and I was like, how hard is that? You should have sent a live chicken. I really should have sent

like honestly like a lobster tank and they have to take the lobster out. That would have been amazing. So I want to go back with you for a second because we were talking a little off air before we started the show. Yeah. And you just alluded to it.

You basically saying you didn't have parents. I want to understand how you grew up because you said your sister was basically where we grew up in San Diego. Yes. And you were in Arizona. What was your childhood like? My childhood was like, did you ever see the movie Mermaids with Cher? Yeah. I love that movie. That was my childhood. I can't remember. I basically had a mom that like was my kid who, you know, at 12 told me I came back from being at like an aunt's house for the summer and she was

living on some guy's boat. And she's like, you know, I don't really know how to be a mom anymore. So you need to go live with your dad. So at 12, we went to live with my dad. And then my sister, you know, didn't want to stay there. So we moved back to my mom's for a year. And then she sent us back to my dad's. And, you know, I'd always been bopping around because my mom would get married over and over again to different people. And we'd live in different states and houses and what have you. And yeah, I just realized, I think at some point it dawned on me that like if I ever wanted to go to a good college, I sort of needed to be in the same school for more than a year. And I decided to stay with my dad when my sister went back. So when your mom's marrying all these different guys,

did you meet all of these different characters? Are they nice? Yeah. You know, it's weird. I'm always, I was just saying this, Sylvia on the way here, we drove past this spa, like where I was actually like molested

before the pandemic. It's a long story. Not a big deal. Cause I was 40 guys. It's not like the biggest deal, but I was like, I can't believe I made it to 40. Like that's kind of of crazy but it just shows you that no woman is safe in the world but the fact that I made it to 40 with the childhood that I had is fucking crazy because

there was no safety there was nobody watching there was no nothing it was just chaos chaos chaos there's no supervision whatsoever no and we were like brought to bars i mean it's just like was all really insane and was your dad a stable character my dad's stable yeah my dad's like a you know he's like a workaholic definitely yeah more stable than my mom for sure for sure i mean she's my muse like she provided me with amazing content but it was not like a maternal there was no maternal like when i had kids it was weird you a maternal. There was no maternal. Like when I had kids, it was weird. You know, I almost had to like check myself because this idea of like, oh wait, he wants me to like kiss him before I leave the house. It wasn't that I didn't want to kiss him. It was like, it didn't occur to me. You know, I had to, my son has taught me so much about attachment in

general because I didn't have that. And I think that like my second book is really all about this idea of like, how could I be the mom I always wanted when I didn't have the mom I always wanted? So stepping into that role is just crazy when you have mommy issues. I also think that that when you do have a chaotic childhood and like you said, you become a mom. The child does sort of, like you said you become a mom the child does sort of like you said have to teach you what to do yes it's a weird dynamic when you go on instagram and you see all these mothers that are so maternal and it's so natural yeah right so this and then you're like wait i've kind of had to learn this as i go yes Yes. And sometimes it could take two years. I mean, more.

Yeah. Well, I don't even know that they know. I just think that the performance online is another interesting situation because there you have it's almost like we are allowed to almost create the mythology of our own motherhood. Right. So you almost use it as like a Pinterest board where you're like, look, I checked off all the box. I have the picture of my son in the pumpkin patch.

I have the picture of the birthday party with the cake I made. I'm winning. I'm not my mom. I'm doing it right. And so it's like it it almost it suits you in a way, but you can't help but then, you know, compare yourself and hold your motherhood up against other people's motherhood and feel like, you know, simultaneously superior and inadequate at the same time. I mean, it's a mindfuck's a mind fuck and it's also constant guilt i yeah constant guilt constant guilt yes i feel and i work like you like yeah i if i don't work i would be miserable yes i would be miserable not to work yes so i work but then i feel guilty that i work yes and then when i'm home and i have to be on my phone, I feel guilty on my phone.

And then you have a parent that work. Both my parents were working. So I had this conversation with Katie Quirk where I said to her, I was like, how did you feel always having to be like, you know, she's reporting on 9-11. She's always like in it. Like, how did you feel as a mom? And I said, did you feel guilty? She's like, no, I didn't feel.

What do you mean? I didn't feel guilty. And that's when the moment it dawned on me that like, oh, my God, it's so different for our generation because we are also the product of moms who worked. So it's like we we want all of these things. We have all of this ambition, but we're also we have the trauma of of a kid whose mom always worked. So we're we're so torn we're constantly feeling guilt every choice we make is is you know in favor of one thing over the other and i think that's just so hard but what do you do i think about this all the time i'm like he and i ask him i go do you

feel guilt yeah no no no he doesn't feel guilt i'm like you don't feel guilt that we have to like like leave and we can't be home to put her to bed no he doesn't feel guilt. I'm like, you don't feel guilt that we have to like leave and we can't be home to put her to bed? No, he doesn't feel guilt. Well, yeah, because a dad that shows up at all is like lauded and praised and they're like, what? You were able to put your kid to bed? You bathed your child? You know, it's like you're a superhero.

But if you're a mom, it's just like there's that double standard. But I also look at it as like, okay, well, like I don't feel guilty because we're working and like that's why they're living in like the house, okay, well, I don't feel guilty because we're working and that's why they're living in the house, right? Right. I don't see the option to not. But here's my thing, which is so wild. Everyone says to me,

oh, do you have help? Do you have a nanny? Yeah. No one says that to him. And we work the exact same amount. How does that work? We work the exact same amount and no one says that to him i would say though

lauren it is mostly women that are saying that i'm an octopus and i hold on hold on it's mostly women saying that to you i don't know any of my friends i'm fine if people ask me that but it's the fact that no one ever asks the male no never never because women are expected to do everything and be everything all at once. I'm getting aggressive. I didn't make the rules here, all right? I just kind of go by and, you know. So now with your mother and your father, are you able to step back and see a different perspective?

Do you still feel like you have some sort of resentment towards them? What is that relationship like now? And does your sister have the same relationship that you have or is it a different perspective my sister i think yeah like i think you're never the same you're never the same parent to two children like you're she had a different experience of my mother than i did i think i detached at a younger age and probably just like coped with it in a different way my sister i think feels more protective and an obligation to take care of my mom but i think that for me it's like there is and you guys are catching me i just came off of two hours worth of couples therapy so it's like i'm really raw right

now come on come on down really raw right now perfect podcast but it's this idea with me that the the anger for me i think comes from feeling like i don't want to even tell you what i about my injury because in telling you my injury you get injured and now i have to take care of you again like that's what i don't like what do you mean say explain that again telling your parent the injury i think when you tell a narcissist that like they've hurt you they're instantly wounded and then you find yourself in that like they've hurt you, they're instantly wounded. And then you find yourself in that codependent dance of having to take care of their injury instead of ever getting your own need met. Whoa. So it's fucked up. And also the defensiveness of a narcissist almost

makes it not worth it because it sucks your energy so bad that you have no energy for anything else for the rest of the week. Well, yeah, it's like, you know, feed me and I'll feed you. Yeah. Yeah. And let me take your clothes and your food and cut your hair off and throw you in the gutter. Totally. So looking back on your childhood. But Instagram is also such a narcissist because it's like you want the light shined on you. Then you need to keep feeding me. And if you stop feeding me, then the light shined on you then you need to keep feeding me and if you stop feeding me then the light goes out and there is nothing better than having a narcissist shine their light on you you're right you're right we had someone on this podcast that like really dissected narcissists and they said i said what do you do if you have one in your family or a friend

whole practice of studying narcissists that's no one of them said you put them on stage. Oh, interesting. All you do, you put them on stage. Don't try to, never going to get through. There's nothing you can do, they said. Well, Shamu will like pull you down by the brain. If you don't just keep feeding Shamu fish, it's like you're going to be the trainer

that gets like taken under. So you have to just keep giving them what they want. They say it was bad or completely detached. There was like no. Or detached. Yeah. It seems like though you've made a purposeful effort to separate your childhood from being a mother.

To me, it seems like you've done a lot of work. Yes. I mean, I've done a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, definitely not. I'm a different type of parent. For sure. For sure.

So how do you do that? And I'm curious for my own my own life actually like how do you separate your childhood well I think we all sort of project onto our kids you're like oh my god they're gonna have this issue and that issue and yeah it's just different they're living they have such you know first of all like Jason is such a different co-parent than, you know, I mean, I the dynamic in our house is just drastically different than the dynamic I grew up with. And I think that you as long as you're self-reflective and you're like looking at yourself and your part and like your triggers, I think that you inevitably become a different parent. You know, I think that why I did Dictator Lunches was because I was trying to almost give myself this corrective experience, right?

Like, it wasn't that Sid wanted these fancy lunches. It was more that I was like, this is what I always wanted. And the fact that he doesn't give a shit about them kind of means that I won, you know? You're very, very self-aware and you're very self-aware in your books. Have you always been like that or is that something that's developed over timeaware in your books. Have you always been like that?

Or is that something that's developed over time? No, I think I've always been forced to have to like kind of look at my part in things. You know, I don't like comedy where somebody isn't like taking the biggest like jobs at themselves. You're self-deprecating. Yeah. And I think you I think that's my favorite type of comedy. It's relatable. Yeah.

And I also just like I want to be vulnerable. Otherwise, there's like no point. Who's funnier, you or Jason? I think that I am. I think that you are too. I don't know if he would agree with me, but he would love hearing me say that. You mentioned couples therapy. Do you recommend that to everyone?

Is that something? Yes. Tell me about that. Well, we've been in therapy since before we met. You could talk to him. Oh, yeah. Since before we met. Since before we were married. Take notes, Michael.

For context. When did you guys meet and how? We did a movie together. And we were, it was in 2007 okay we were in therapy before we were even married yeah right away and we were married within nine months of knowing each other wow so it all happened very fast and when you go to therapy before you're married is the problems totally different that not i don't even want to say problems is the talking points different now no that's the funniest thing no it's like you're in your defenses i'm in mine like you're you you you think i'm your mother i think you're

my mother like i'm dealing with family of origin ship but you're taking it personally because you feel like i'm saying that you're wrong or you're bad and that's your trigger. And so just like it ping pongs back and forth. Does he have a similar or different upbringing? Different, but we were both like the codependent in our homes. Okay. So different, definitely different. If there's one thing in my life right now that I can't possibly live without, you think I'm going to say my wife? You think I'm going to say my kids? No, it's athletic greens, better known as AG1. This has become an absolute staple in my health routine. Right now,

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Let's be honest. I am not the best cook in the world. I mean, I'm trying, okay? So enter HelloFresh. With HelloFresh, you get farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients. And this is delivered right to your door. So I get my box. I don't have to go to the grocery store. And I can actually learn to cook in an efficient way that saves me time. I personally, out of all the things, I'm obsessed with their fresh pineapple chicken tacos.

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This is really, really ideal for someone who's busy or someone who is not the best in the kitchen because of these pre-portioned ingredients. And you get to skip the checkout lines. And ultimately, it just saves you time. You're going to go to HelloFresh.com slash Skinny50 and use code Skinny50 for 50% off, plus your first box ships free. Go to hellofresh.com slash skinny 50 and use code skinny 50 for 50% off and your first box ships free. I am all about this. 50% off is such a generous code. Go to hellofresh.com slash skinny 50. When you guys are in therapy together, are there main themes or issues that you're both coming to the table trying to solve or is just like hey we want to talk about everything that's going on in

our life yes and i think that we're so similar but and the the biggest issue for us is like whose issue comes first whose dime is it is it j you know like i'm upset i'm wounded because jason wasn't listening to something i said oh they never listen and then i come to him and say i'm mad you weren't listening to me and then he feels like what did i do wrong i wasn't listening to something I said. Oh, they never listen. And then I come to him and say, I'm mad you weren't listening to me. And then he feels like, what did I do wrong? I wasn't even trying. You know, and it's like, who's going to go first? Do you need it to be about you right now?

If you need it to be, if you need this one to be about you, let's make it about you. We woke up this morning in a hotel. Or can I make it about me? And I still don't know what she was upset about. I just know that I was ripped out of bed and the curtains were ripped open.

And I still, and I had no idea. I like to keep it guessing. And I said to her, I said, is this something you're doing? Because like you just need, like you just, you're, you want to like spice things up right now. Cause we don't have the kids around us or did I actually do something? I just like to keep it like guessing. Like I don't like to keep it like too predictable. Well, I think it's difficult because as a man, I think we're not as good at reading emotional cues. You don't say. You don't fucking say. And then that, can I imagine, could be frustrating because you're like, hey, I'm putting the signal out there.

But to me, it's like, you might as well be speaking Chinese. You guys are bad listeners. But even when we say, I'm hurt, it's still sometimes hard to not hear it as, you're bad. Yeah, of course. But if I say the same thing, if I'm, I'm, yeah, I think it's both ways though. Yeah. Right. No. Yeah. And then you're like in a lock, but one of you has to sidestep it and be like, I can make it about you right now. I don't need this. I know that when you're talking, you're talking about you. And when I'm talking, I'm only talking about me.

So wait, I think I have something to solve this. why can't you go first in one session and then he goes first in the other session because when you're in conflict it's like it's so hard to see that it's like not about you that you feel like oh my god this person's pissed off at me and they're coming to me and they're mad and I've done something wrong and so you get into this dance of like wait if you just understood where I was coming from, if I can just explain myself and it's like, then you've taken the bait. Who gets to choose the therapist? Is it a joint effort?

Beth was recommended to us. I don't even know how we met Beth. Does she take sides? Sometimes, when she needs to. She's so good if you guys are looking

for someone. She's fucking great. I'm going to make you fly to New York every single time I need therapy. She's in LA. We do it on Zoom.

Oh, you do it on Zoom. Is that as effective? Couples is effective on Zoom. Yeah. So are you guys sitting next to each other on the bed? Yeah. And she's literally in bed with us. Can you pinch him if he annoys you?

Yeah, for sure. Does it work? Yeah. I mean, yes. So like if you have an issue that you want to address, do you write it down in your notes app and like save it for later? Sometimes.

But then I always find that like when I reread it, it does sound, it makes, it's more incriminating. I sound like the psycho. That's very Abe Lincoln. He used to be angry and write his letters and then put them in a drawer and then not send them because the point is, he's like, you're like, oh shit, maybe like I,

it's better I didn't send that thing. Right, exactly. So you'll go back and you look at the notes and you're like hey this is i could let this one go or we'll like have like a texting fight after a fight and then we'll be referencing that and it's like let's just see wait what did you say you said oh he pulls out the receipts yes sometimes i i might like this couple's therapy thing. I think that it's interesting. We've had all sorts of conversations. I think we've talked about this a lot.

And I think we're both open to the concept and the notion. But in our world, we've had difficulties. Who's the person? How do you find them? Where do you go? I think that's the whole thing. You just need to go to Bath. She's amazing.

There's also a therapist that can do both. Oh my God. I like that. I like that idea. How old is your daughter? She's three. Three. We're in it.

And I can't believe you guys don't have a therapist. Three and eight months. Three and eight months. Guys. I know. You're being triggered left and right. Like how? How are you doing it?

It's not. I mean, it's a lot of work having two kids under. That's crazy. People. I'm just. And I have help. so i can't even imagine you know what though this is not a joke we do this eight times a month yeah we've done it for so long and i think in a way we get so much dialogue and conversation because it's not like

just going to dinner like we sit with people like yourself yes doctors and sometimes yeah we've had all sorts of therapists i think couples therapy wouldn't hurt yeah but you know what i mean i think if we didn't do something like this where we're talking about it. Where you're connecting. Yeah. Then I think we would be in some trouble. For sure. Wow.

What is your biggest parenting challenge? This was asked by the audience. Everyone wanted to know this one. My biggest challenge is balancing like work and parenting. You've got a lot going on. It's really hard to wear the different hats. And honestly, for me to turn off work, to actually like put it aside and know that it, the idea of something not being done drives me fucking crazy. And when you have a book,

it's like, it's not done for a long time. And even after it's out, it's still not done. It's hard to like get back into mom mode and be present in mom mode when like you're still spinning on work. I always ask writers this because I'm so curious. How do you manage your day to get a book done? Is it something that you do an hour in the morning? Do you have like a schedule? Do you write when you feel compelled to write? When I was really in it, I mean, this last novel took me four years. So that was like a different beast altogether. But I was averaging a thousand words a day. Most of the time I'd start working at nine and I'd stop at five. I mean, I really was pushing. Wow. That's gnarly. I've never heard a writer say that long. That's a long day. And I'd get bored and you know like force myself back in but but I just don't like

I don't like when stuff's like not done I mean that is crazy to write that long that's a lot of right now because I don't have another book right now and like to be floating and for the this is like the first time since 2013 I don't have like this looming deadline over me feels I feel very untethered at the moment well you're probably getting content right now that you don't have like this looming deadline over me. Feels I feel very untethered at the moment. Well, you're probably getting content right now that you don't even know about for your next book. Yes. You know? Yes.

Because I feel like you're such a good storyteller. And how do you how do you come up with what you want to write about? Well, the third book was I knew it was going to be a novel because I knew I couldn't tell that story. Couldn't tell that story as a memoir and like not burn a lot of bridges. But it was a story that I had to tell. And I felt like it was a story that I had I needed to hear. So I needed to write it because I felt like I needed somebody to tell it to me. But nobody wanted the book. And it was like a horrible experience trying to sell it because pivoting from like memoir to fiction, especially like when you're kind of considered

like in the celeb memoir space, just nobody was taking me seriously. And I had editors pass that, you know, the second book I had a bidding war and the third book, it was like, I don't know if in a post COVID world, a book about wealthy white women in lower Manhattan doesn't read as tone

deaf. And I just kept saying like, guys, this is real. This is my truth. This is what's happening. And I know I can sell the fuck out of this book. And so it was a full blown, like, I don't know, it was an uphill battle. It was not fun, but you know, it felt good to sort of overcome and get it out into the world and have it be my best selling book. What is it like being a woman in Manhattan with two children? Yes. What is that like? It was interesting. It's like, I don't know what it would have been like to be a mom in LA. I can't imagine being. Like what are the differences? Do you think in LA, like the currency is fame, you know? So it's like, it's all about like, who was at my play date? What pilot are you working on?

It's like, I felt like a doctor who lived at the hospital. I could never escape work. And because that's already hard for me, it was just like a terrible place for me to be. It's why we went to Texas, honestly, because like when we had kids, we're like, I didn't want that to be the currency for our children no it's it's so gross it's and i i mean i have tons of friends there who are doing it and probably great at it but for me i could not do it and in new york i felt like oh i'm on a giant cruise ship where like i can be a mom upstairs fully a mom and then i can go downstairs and i can be a writer i can be you know, of whatever the fuck you want to call me. Like I can get work done. I can, you know, still feel like a human being in the world. And my identity hasn't just been like stripped of me. Also in L.A., I feel like you're you're kind of like either banished to suburbia where you're just like in your house stuck with your kid or you're like at a studio or you know office somewhere writing out working all day and you don't see your child so you can't

have the same duality and New York I felt was easier and more conducive for me in that way to just like get more done and I also think that New York like nobody cares what you do in New York nobody gives a shit nobody cares it's it's it's a It's an opportunistic underlying tone in LA compared to New York. It's very different. The way I describe it. But it is like all like powerful, like hardworking, hungry people,

which I love. It's almost like people who thought they were like the cutest in their high school went to LA. And the people who are like the first born child who's like, I must succeed at all costs came to New York and is like, I'm going to found something.

I'm going to like fucking hustle. I want to work. I want to make it happen. At least of our generation, like now this younger generation, I don't think anybody wants to work, but I do believe that like, there's just different mentality about like New York versus LA. Yeah. And again, like we, California born and raised and still have an office in LA and all that. I think my issue, and this is not for everybody, but there is a large majority that it's more about what you do than who you are. Right.

And what you're doing in that moment. Yeah. And like, exactly. And so like when you describe yourself in LA or we found a lot of time it's like less about who you are as a person what you believe what you think it's more about like you describe yourself by what you do and i think that's a very difficult way to interact with humans and also to raise children because i don't want to teach at least our kids that their worth is based on what they do i mostly want it to be about who they are no it's what you said is like,

you could be really multifaceted here. Like you can be all different kinds of things in the same day. Yeah. Which is awesome. Like you, upstairs, you're a mom. Downstairs, you're a writer. You go down the street, you're an artist.

Like you just, you mix it up. It's a bag of tricks. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of liberating. It's liberating. And like when, you know, you're still trying to keep up with this, like, I don't know,

idea that like women can have it all, which like I don't really believe women can have it all, at least at the same time. New York gives you sort of a glimpse of like, maybe I could. There's this book that I could do it all. I just I just we need to move here. I just read it. And I think I was listening to you talk. I think you both might like it.

It's called 4000 Weeks. Uh huh. Have you heard of it? Yes. And it's like people think it's a productivity book, which in ways it is, but it's basically points out that the most people only have 4,000 weeks on this planet, right? It's like when you look at your time span like that, the whole point is realizing that to your point, you can't have it all. Like anytime you decide to do something, you're sacrificing something else and you try to cram it all in and it makes us feel bad because we think that time is something to be used as a tool, but time is something

that's actually working against us. Completely. And the whole point is you have to make sacrifices and make choices. Completely. Like it completely shifted the way I think about

my relationship with time and getting things done and having it all. It's like once you realize and make peace, like you really can't have it all because it's not possible from a time perspective.

Yeah. Then as soon as you accept that, you're like, oh, it all because it's not possible from a time perspective. Yeah. Then as soon as you accept that, you're like, oh, okay, it's easier to make choices in life. I think so too. I fully believe that. That's so true. Because we all go through and I think we get discouraged because I'm wasting time. I'm not being productive with my time. I don't have time.

And it's like this thing that's constantly working against you and we're trying to figure out the solve to basically own our time. But you can't. You can't. Right. And so it's interesting to think about because all of us are trying to be productive people. Yeah. But it's working against you.

Bully. It's so annoying. Yeah. Super annoying. How do you describe yourself? Like if someone's like there's you do so many things. How would you describe yourself at a cocktail party? I say that like I'm like a comedian and a writer.

It's just sort of like, I feel like vague enough. It sort of covers all the bases. I think that there's nothing more terrifying in my life than being a comedian. That is so much pressure to have to get on stage and make people laugh. Harder than anything. Harder than a musician.

Yeah, it's just a stand-up comicup comic i mean that's a whole different thing yeah but you you you are very like on instagram i look at you as like a comedy account like that's so sweet you're essentially standing on stage on instagram when you're doing it yeah it's the same thing or like when you're like hosting something i feel like you are like you have to really be ready. You have to be. Is that natural or you have to work at it? No, I think that like it depends. I think it's just something that like you're either in the habit of doing or not doing. I think that like with the with the comedy thing, it's like when I was on Twitter, I used to just like think in like a hundred and whatever many characters or less. It would just be like, that's a tweet. That's a tweet. That's a, you know, and you get good at it. And so it's, you know, like anything, it's just when you're in practice with writing as well, it's like, I can get up to like 2000 words a day if I'm like doing it all the time. But when I get out of it, then it's like, oh my God, I only made 800 words, you know. So it's just. Yeah. The more you do it.

I feel like people are thinking now in TikToks. Probably. Probably. And TikTok is still something that's hard for me. It's I mean, it's hard. It's not a joke. I don't think it's like always. And I'm like, I have to do a dance.

I have to be in a trend. Well, the problem is, is like these things in the way that they're rewarding now is they're rewarding like more frequency, more abundance, more, more, more. Cause like, you know, everybody knows like on social, these platforms aren't free because you're actually the product and you, and you as a writer, you get paid for your book. Right. Yeah. But on these platforms, you don't get paid anything and you're just feeding them content and they make money. Right. Exactly. But it's like, now it's rewarding in the sense that like all it's doing is saying you have to do more.

You have to do, or you only did two tweets. You got to do seven to get seen. Right. And so it's like, you're in this thing and it just becomes, I think at some point you have to decide like where you're spending your time and energy.

That's what I'm, but you know what? It's so hard to find somebody. Like I have gone through so many people looking for someone that wants to like work and do like social, like digital. Somebody that wants to work period. For somebody that wants to work. and do like social like digital somebody that wants to work period for somebody that wants to work first of all and like fucking doesn't ghost me

after i'm like oh let's have an interview but but just like that would help you know kind of like support the digital side of it because it is a full-time job what wants to help if anyone's out there on tiktok you're looking for on tiktok yeah. You guys, I mean, drop in. Please, guys, seriously, I'm desperate. I'm curious. Nobody wants to do anything. I told Sid, I was like, I'm going to teach you how to edit. I'm going to buy you the nicest computer.

And he's like, really? I said, yeah, but then you're going to work for me. During COVID, we changed our policy in the company to like, okay, it was always all work from home. Then after we came up with, okay, three days a week flexible. When I said, hey, we got to kind of get in here a little more because the world is like, we're back.

It's up and running. It was almost a revolt. It was an uproar. I'm like, listen, I cannot afford to run a business without anybody working. We need to get in here and do this. Isn't it crazy? Or else we don't have a company. I'm like, look, I had to sit everyone down.

Listen, we got to powwow about this. And they're like, we've read 4,000 hours and fuck you. Exactly. And I'm like, listen, okay, well, the fast track this forward in six months, we're all out of work. We have to, we actually have to come together and do something that creates a, you know, a valuable product or service to the world or else what are we all doing? I'm curious, selfishly, how you structure your time with everything that you have going on. Is there like a morning routine that you have a nighttime routine or do you just

wake up and you're writing from nine to five and that's that so I wake up it depends on the day you know like if I know I have time to like I was just writing this piece for Oprah so like I have to write that piece you know and and when I'm doing that I become pretty like obsessive and that's when it's like I'll work out because you know i grew up with you know my parents are also like incredibly vain i grew up in a house where like i didn't realize everyone didn't have to like go home and get on the treadmill after school my god so like i do work out that is something that like keeps me sane so i'll i work out and then with the when i was writing the over piece it was like i just sitting there, like sitting at the computer until my kids come home writing. And Sylvia will come in and like feed me something, spoon feed me. But then if I'm not on something, it's like, I'll wake up, I'll go work out. I'll probably try to figure out jokes that I'm going to post that day, you know, write some shit. And then,

I don't know, go do a podcast, go, you know, kind of bop around like that. Then usually come back and like tinker with something that like, you know, a proposal for something out of all the content that you post on your Instagram, what resonates the most that you see? Like, what are you What are people like that's relatable out of everything you post? Because you do post a lot of relatable content, especially to mothers. Yeah, right now it's funny. Because I came from

Twitter where you could write and sort of... That's where you started, Twitter. That's really where my writing career started. I was just an angry actress married to someone more famous than me. And the rage sort of just like drove me to start doing comedy was there actual real rage that he was more famous than you yeah why because you wanted to be the same yeah i was like wait wait no i get it i'm like i'm an overachiever and like this cannot be our dynamic hate if i'm

not gonna be the girl who takes your fucking cell phone photo with Jason Biggs. Did you guys start acting around the same time? Yeah. No, no. He's always like, Jenny, like whenever I'm like, why aren't you more motivated? You know, because I'm always like on him about like, you need to call your agents, you know, because I'm a psychopath. And he's like, Jenny, I started working when I was five years old. I was on Broadway.

I've been working 20 years longer than you. I'm good. Like, I feel good about where I'm five years old. I was on Broadway. I've been working 20 years longer than you. I'm good. I feel good about where I'm at in life. And I'm just like still so hungry. So there's a different vibe between us.

Do you know how when that because we were so young when American Pie came out but that was like do you know how at the time how big of an uproar that was

that kids were sneaking into that movie? Yeah. Because that was like we were like 12 or 13 when that came out. Oh, that's so funny. That's right.

Right there in the Del Mar Highlands. Remember the Del Mar Highlands? Yeah, of course. That's where we would sneak in there. He was trying to eat my pie. An American pie. Oh my God. That's so funny.

It gave me the idea. Okay, so the dynamic is that you are both, or is it both competitive or you're competitive? Well, he's competitive, but like not to the extent. He's like, what have I ever done to you? He's not trying to support your career.

He's not trying to beat you. Give you money. Give you children. Give you love. Fucking what have I done? And I'm like, I can't. Bring up the blowjob from the hooker. I would use that against him.

See, I would do it and then I'd be like, but you did get a blowjob from a hooker. You did get a blowjob from a hooker. See, I wouldn't fall for that trap. Where's my blow blow job i would turn a threesome down from lauren because i think it's a trap it's a trap i think if i say yes and act excited it's not a trap it's not a trap yeah see that's that's a trap that's a trap so so when you guys first started dating you're saying people were coming up to you saying can you take myself like can you hold my baby so i can take a picture with jason biggs and so what do you do you're horrified horrified i didn't like it i mean you know like i was 28

years old i felt like i was i i felt like i had a lot going on and then all of a sudden i'm with this guy that i'm fully eclipsed by and it was maddening it was really it made me crazy but was that part of the allure that like he was in a comp like when you guys first met like were you like oh wow he's in a company he understands the space and the career and my uh no i know i always wonder why that was the thing that like that was the drawback to him because he's very maternal and like he really did he was so we connect on so many levels but the fame really i had such a problem with it. It bothered me, except when I wanted to get into a good restaurant. Then I'm like, wait, you guys, you've seen American Pie, right? No, but I always, because from an outside perspective, you see actors and actresses dating each other. And I always think, I wonder, is that because it's relatable and they understand the

world and they understand what it's like to be with somebody that is looked at? You walk into a restaurant, it's like, oh, there's the person, right? And it's like to be with somebody that is yeah like you walk into a restaurant it's like oh there's there's the person right yeah yeah it's like it's almost how do you say this in the nice way like they're dating a normie they like the normie and i was like a normie who doesn't understand the world might like not be able to handle what you're describing right now which is like they're overshadowed by this person's fame or yes i mean i was with a writer for a long time before Jason. And so he was also in the business. So I don't know.

I mean, it wasn't, it was just more like an actor felt like direct competition, even though he's a man and like totally not my competition. I would feel like that. But I was like, you know, so the way I met him was that we, they gave me these audition tapes that I was auditioning for this movie. And one of the guys was trying to sleep with my sister so he said to me do you want to see the tapes you want to see the other girls you're up against and like when you get to like a certain level whatever there's only like a handful of us I knew all of these girls and I was like yeah

show me their fucking tapes let's see it you know and I'm sitting in my house just like feeling so smug and powerful and he's like while you're at it i want to show you the two guys we're choosing between one is this guy whoever it was and the other guy is jason biggs and instantly like the hairs on the back of my like back went up where i'm like jason biggs that guy from american pie like he fuck him he's famous i'm not famous like give it to the underdog why would i want this guy to get more success in life like i was already pissed you weren't excited like hey this is the guy and i get to be and i get to act no i was because i didn't know i was cast yet and i was still like okay ew no i don't give it to the other guy that poor struggling actor like he deserves it

and then i watched the tapes and j Jason was so good in this audition. I always tell him, I'm like, you were better in the audition than you even were when you did the movie. And he hates hearing that. That's a dig too. He hates hearing that, but he really was so good. And I called Doug back and I was like, Doug, I think you have to give it to Jason.

I didn't know he was so talented. I was a, I was like a theater major, you know, I felt like very superior at this point in life. And so when I realized that he was actually, you know, not just this like whatever teen comedy sex guy, I was like, whoa, oh my God. Yeah, you got to give it to him. He's fucking talented. So then we ended up in Boston together for three months doing the movie. And then we were married six months after that.

I just got back from a trip. And the whole trip, I had a color palette. And one of the colors that I wore a lot was like a French blue. And how I got inspired by this color was through Jenny Kane. I got to pick a shirt off their site and I picked the boyfriend shirt. I got it oversized, so I got a large. And then I wore their boyfriend shirt like over my bathing suit. It was so cute. It's a button up, like a collared situation with a great sleeve. I love it oversized. And this color, you guys, is so pretty. It also comes in white.

And I'm not mad at the white, to be honest. And kind of like a mustard stripe. But the French blue is the move. It's on their site. It's luxurious. It's classic. It's comfortable. It's very California inspired.

They also have like cotton and cashmere knit sweaters I usually go to them for like elevated everyday basics so if you're looking for a very classic minimalistic closet this is it but you have to go on and check out their boyfriend button up it is so major for summer I'm telling you and of course we have a code for you find your forever pieces at jennycane.com our listeners a discount. You get 15% off your first order when you use code SKINNY at checkout. And of course, we have a discount. Our listeners get 15% off your first order when you use code SKINNY at checkout. That's 15% off your first order. You're going to go to J-E-N-N-I-K-A-Y-N-E.com, promo code SKINNY. The brand go-to for all season staples. Treat yourself because you deserve it.

It's golf. It's not golf. It's Topgolf. Okay. I recently heard about Topgolf through our cousin, Leah. She raved about it and I had to get involved. So Topgolf is so cool. Here's the deal. They have clubs, balls, tees, turf, and even a ball picker upper. It's like this little cart thing that picks up balls. They also have a whole bunch of stuff that's not golf. So they've really created a vibe there. So they have loud music, giant targets in their giant fairway, giant TVs, and handcrafted food and also a beverage menu. This sounds like heaven. It sounds like a really good activity. And even if you don't consider yourself a golfer, I'm telling you, everyone can play just like you did. So you don't have to be

a golfer to go here. You should also know they even have a whole day each week dedicated to more play for less play. So they do this thing on Tuesdays where the all gameplay is half priced, which gives players more of a reason to come play around. This is such a great activity for your whole team. If you have like a work team that you want to take out, have some fun, have a vibe, have an experience. Their handcrafted food menu is incredible. I personally love an experience, especially with Michael, and this is all about play and having fun. I am in to Topgolf. What a fun date night too. Definitely go check them out. Exclusions apply to the half price Tuesday promotion and full terms can be found at topgolf.com slash Tuesday. And most importantly, it's all about fun, which we love playing,

eating, or just chilling. Go to topgolf.com slash Tuesday. Did you like him in person right away romantically or did it take some pursuing? I'm always like, I wasn't like, I said, I remember saying to someone, I'm like, he's sweet. I mean, he's not the one, but yeah, I remember saying that to this other fucking director that I know. And I die over it because it is so funny. Pamela Anderson says the best thing. What did she say? What you just said?

She said, if you want a guy to marry you, be like, you're sweet, but we're never going to get married. I can't marry you. They fall in love. They fall in love. Funny. Like, oh, you're sweet. You're not the one.

It's a great way to start a relationship i'm telling you because it just put checks them right into their place increases the excitement you know yeah that might be true but i remember him also saying to me like after he's like chasing me courting me we're in boston he's like i don't know if i'm ready to like be in a relationship and i remember leaving because i had to go to miami that weekend. And I was down there with another friend and I'm laughing. I'm like, can you believe that he doesn't think he wants to be in a relationship with me? Like, what?

I'm the best thing this guy's ever going to get. I was such a bitch. But truly, I really, I don't know. I really believed it at the time. So then your underlying resentment towards him being more famous than him, you get on Twitter and you're able to express it in a way that's like your own form of therapy. Yes. And then I realized I was funny because before that, I was like, I was doing a lot of

procedurals. I was always like a lawyer or a cop or, you know, an FBI agent or ballistics missiles experts. You didn't know you were funny since you were little? No, I don't think I really understood that I was funny until I started seeing people respond in that way. And then everything in my life changed. So when you found out, when you discovered you were funny, it clicked.

And I really like stepped into kind of like my voice. You know, for me, I think it was hard because I had dyslexia as a kid so I felt like already I wasn't good enough and then I was like this blonde little girl and it's like the 80s and I definitely felt like nobody took me seriously you know there was like very much this like dumb blonde stigma and I didn't feel like I was smart enough I wasn't doing what the other kids could do scholastically. It was just like so upsetting. I remember like, you know, when I was reading time, I would be like taken out of class and I'd be with like these ESL kids from like, you know, like Iraqi just like a drive that like I don't feel like I would have had had I not gone through that. And you're a writer now, which is so crazy.

Yeah, because my life is like built on like revenge. I'm like, I'm going real, just like I was, I would just avoid comedy because I didn't want to play the roles that I was getting in my twenties, which was like the ditzy blonde bimbo. And there was no way in hell I wanted anything to do with that. So I would just pass. I wouldn't even put myself in that situation as an actress. But when I started writing, it was just like, oh, this is who I am. And then it all changed.

When I imagine then you can build your own audience on a platform that's not gate kept by producers, writers, directors. Oh yeah, I'm not in control

of my life. And I was like, this is, why would anybody be an actor? Yeah, really. I just finished

Brave by Rose McGowan. If I say her last name, I pronounce everything wrong. Yeah, Rose McGowan. But I'm like reading this, I pronounce everything wrong. Yeah, Rose McGowan. But I'm like reading this and I'm like, how is anyone subjecting themselves?

Listen, that's her experience. Maybe her experience is different. I'm just saying, I'm like, how are you subjecting yourself to all of, it's so many different layers that you have to get through

of people saying yes, yes, yes. Yeah, not to comment on that. You really can't. You don to comment on that you don't have like you don't really have control over anything yeah i don't know her story so yeah not commenting fully but i think that's that's the dynamic that's changed so much with all these platforms is because there's no longer the person that says yeah you're in the part or you're not oh yeah it's like you can build your own attention if you have talent right and it's not and it's not dependent on like what a casting agent says or a director or a writer like maybe you have talent right and it's not and it's not dependent on like what a

casting agent says or a director or a writer like maybe you piss somebody off and then they block like this is like fully like you can build attention for yourself if you have yes would you ever go back to acting no i like hate when i'm stuck somewhere like i get such i did this like schoolhouse rock thing or i don't know whatever recently with jason and i'm and i'm laughing to him because i'm always like god like how long are they going to keep us here because the idea of not being in control and having to like just like kind of I mean an actor you just have to sit on set until you can leave it's really hell I hate it I hate that feeling it's also like stand on your mark this light and then I would again and then you see see I would see myself and be like, oh, that angle.

Like, yeah, like I just just constant like, I don't know. It seems like a lot of anxiety. Yeah, it's like I mean, for me, it's just more about the lack of control. I'm like, why am I servicing somebody else's vision when like I have my own stories I want to tell? Right. Yeah. And it's funny because, you know, I watch what goes on, especially cancel culture and all that stuff. But I watch what goes on there. And I'm like, the only reason you can really get canceled is

because you've given somebody else or some other platform or other gatekeeper control over your life. Like I always tell people all the time, like we do whatever we want and say whatever we want on the show because like we don't answer to anyone. Like worst case is maybe some advertiser doesn't want to work with us or somebody sure basically like there's nobody that's making a decision of whether we can do this or not when some of these other professions like oh you did that wrong thing you're out like you see it with reality tv stars right like they say the wrong thing on television and they're kicked off the show completely oh no i've watched i mean it's happened i've seen it happen to jason it's crazy what do you mean i would have to kick myself off my own show and i'm not gonna do that right how does it happen to Jason. It's crazy. What do you mean? I would have to kick myself off my own show

and I'm not going to do that, right? How has it happened to Jason? Just like during this happened, you know, I mean, Twitter became like a very unsafe place to be for just everybody. Everybody. For everybody.

But like, you know, when the right, like some of these like right wing crazy, like Twitchy and some of those sites started really trying to take down performers and writers. And you watched it happen to James Gunn, who was an incredible human being. And a lot of people, they just came after people for old past tweets. This was right before Sid, or maybe Sid was born, I forget now. But Jason was on Ninja Turtles on Nickelodeon. And he made a tweet

about Malaysian Airlines and it was like the first plane went missing and then there was a report that the second plane went missing. Nobody knew anything, right? And I'm in the car with him and he wrote something,

just a tweet, but nothing. He just wrote, who wants to buy my Malaysian flight miles? You know, literally nothing. A joke, a joke.

A fucking joke the most innocuous like not even a big whatever had to maybe like a few hours later that plane is found it's like you know this fiery this massive destruction whatever you know it's just like this tragic plane crash and michelle malkin and a few of these other people all of a sudden on everywhere TV like Fox News everywhere you see Jason's face with a flaming plane next to it like as if like how you know heartless can these left-wing actors be you know and fully I mean like Viacom fired him. He lost Ninja Turtles.

It was just, like, horrible. So, like, at that point, it became, like, okay, we got to, like, shift. We got to, we have, it's not, we can't be putting ourselves in those kinds of positions anymore. It's just, like, not worth it. But, you know, it's funny. Now, I think, like, years later, because you saw this, and we were ardently outspoken about how absurd a lot of this was, and especially because things that were maybe not considered offensive four years

ago started servicing and they were considered offensive i did delete everything there were things terrible things i mean i used to live tweet the bachelor yeah imagine me post me too movement how those tweets would read now no sure but this is the problem was like and bill burr has the funniest thing about this he was talking about how people were like digging up things John Wayne said. And we're like, John Wayne has been dead for 50 years. He's gone. And the fact that as a society, we're sitting here focusing on something like that in the past and not focusing on how to move forward in a better way for the future, it's just

absurd. But it's not productive for anyone. And I think all it's done for people is just made people more guarded and more or less likely to share how they really feel about things. This is what it's not productive for anyone. And I think all it's done for people is just made people more guarded and more or less likely to share how they really feel about things. This is what it's like. Oh, it's so scary. It's like having an intimate dinner party at your house

where you have all your friends there and you're all talking normally and you're drinking and you're having happy hour and you're having fun. And then one of the friends goes and tells another friend that's outside the dinner party your whole

conversation. That friend is not invited back to dinner with you. Right. So with what happened with Twitter, it's like if you can't put your opinions on Twitter, then you just maybe don't get access anymore because people freak out. Listen, my grandmother is a 96-year-old fully Japanese woman. You wouldn't know that from looking at me. I'm a quarter, but she's fully Japanese. Some of the things that I've heard her say out of her 96-year-old Japanese is absurd. And honestly, maybe it doesn't work, but I'm not going to say and villainize my 96-year-old grandmother who grew up literally almost 100 years ago in a different world. It's like, this is how it is. We got to allow some grace here. We got to be like, listen, not everyone's going to be perfect. So did you delete your Twitter after this happened with Ninja Turtles?

I deleted a little bit after that. After like Trump came into office, I was like, I'm out. But Jason, it's like, you know, I remember saying to him, like, I want you to say something. You need to say something about the Roe, you know, the Roe versus Wade stuff. I want you to say something about abortion. You know know just I felt like not enough men were saying something and he's like Jenny I love you but like I have so much like PTSD around this issue like I can't I don't want to like get I just can't be I can't

be doing that it's just not healthy for me. And I totally respect that because it's like, again, this is like an actor who literally had something like stripped from him that like,

of course, kills when you have two sons who love Ninja Turtles. It's like, such a, it's so, it's just all sad. Well,

the sad thing is now. I don't know. I mean, for like, just a tweet that was like, nothing. The sad thing is now, I don't know. I mean, for like just a tweet that was like nothing. The sad thing is on that, on him speaking out, he's,

he would have honestly been damned if he did damned if he didn't. And that's what he said to me. He's like, I'm going to get shit either way. There's no way that goes well. Yeah. And I think that's the sad commentary on the society we live in now where it's like,

it's so there's no room for nuance and conversation. It's like, pick your side of the line. Right. Yes. And if you're not on the, like, and we talk about this all the time. It's like, I try to, I try to meet people and think that when you meet me, you may not know every side of every issue I stand on. I want to basically form my own opinions. And I, and I think it would be a failure of thought for myself personally to define myself along party lines. I'd really want to hear and understand why somebody thinks the way they think and then come to my own informed

conclusion, which is how we used to do things, right? It's how we used to think. But now, and I've heard, you know, you hear this all the time, like, you have to pick a side. You have to take a stance. It's like, well, I don't know. I don't understand. I'm actually not that informed about everything. I have to think for a second and I can't just jump into the Twitter bandwagon based on, I know. Right. It's hard. And I think the nuance is people should say that more and be like, hey, maybe I actually

don't know enough to comment yet. I think that I feel a certain way, but I got to do a little research before I like write a soliloquy online. It's scary. It's just dangerous. Yeah. I think that there's a way to not show every single part of yourself online and keep some private. There has to be an element of privacy for me at least. I have to have

my own thoughts and feelings. I can't share every single thing. So I get where you're coming from. Not to take anything away from actors or podcasters, but are we really the best people to comment on very complex issues right when it pops off? Like, I don't know what's going on with the trade embargoes. I have no fucking clue. But there's also like comedies, just like not safe to be funny. Like that really bums me out. No.

It's such a shame that, you know, even things sometimes also things that people are like, you're horrible. How dare you and it's just like girl with no job did the funniest tiktok there's this there was like this girl that's doing content and she's like she's like this is my like led light mask and i know everyone can't afford this led light mask but this is the one that i like and then it like goes to girl with no job and she's like are we really having to preface everything to like make everyone comfortable

make everybody feel comfortable and it's so true I even like will say things like to preface it it's like not everyone's gonna

feel comfortable all the time that's called life yeah totally anyway well it's like you want the real details

have you guys seen Chris Rock's new special Michael has I haven't seen it so good yeah with selective outrage I was dead over some of the things he was saying. He went on Will Smith at the end there. That was wild.

But I'm dying over the women's abortion stuff. I haven't heard it. What I think comedians do, especially stand-ups, in such a great way is they are able to actually take very serious and complex issues and then call out the absurdities in the way we view those issues. And a guy like Chris Rock or Dave Shipp, they're masters at taking very complex issues and kind of making us look at ourselves in the way that we're talking about those issues. You've got to be able to laugh in life.

If you can't laugh in life… can't laugh exactly it's like can we just like laugh and not like take everything so serious i think it's gonna swing i love when guys like get get behind twitter get all your content put it in your notes app because it's gonna swing and i can say whatever the fuck i want again yeah yeah what i like about guys like chris rock or dave chappelle when they as they're older now because you know the comedy from when they're younger right it's like a more mature take on life but it's still like they're so fucking funny so tell us about your book which book i know which book traumatized which book give us a little give us a little breakdown of each one because i'm a big fan and i think that our audience will especially love your books. Give us a breakdown of each one.

So I Like You Just the Way I Am was my first book. And that's just like a lot of like capers. It's sort of like a really fucked up, a dark I Love Lucy. Yeah. And I get into a lot of hijinks. That one has like the hooker story in it. There's a story where like, again, like with this play today, I sent my sister an anonymous note telling her she was molested by my grandfather like i don't know that that plays today guys but at the time it was hilarious there's a lot of stuff in that book actually one of the other

things again i can't even it's just it's too crazy but i had like a i had a run-in with jason's ex who i was obsessed with she's who's the ex? Just this random girl, but she's literally Moby Dick and I'm Captain Ahab. And of course, the last time I finally saw her again, she's on the island of Nantucket. It was just like, it just writes itself.

Guys, there's a lot about me stalking her in this book. She's a known person or not? Not a known person, not a known person, but she was, I was absolutely obsessed with her. I would like gift her things of hers

I'd find around the house, go on hikes with her up for running canyon behind Jason's back. Like basically was having a relationship with her behind Jason's back when we first got together. I think a lot of girls do that.

I set her up with my acting coach and then I went on the date with them. There was just like a lot. Are you guys friends still? No, she doesn't speak to me and I've made amends many times and I did promise i'd never talk about her again but like so i'm just gonna go quickly through what it's in that book there's a lot with her and then book two live fast die hot is about when i had sid and then all the craziness that ensued and sort of this

idea of like how can i be the mom i always wanted when i didn't have the mom i always wanted like what can i do to like equip me like how, how can I better prepare myself? So it's like, I got in a fight with this guy on Etsy. And then I like went to Morocco to like the Atlas Mountains to meet the women that actually wove the rug. I went to Peru and did ayahuasca with Chelsea Handler. That chapter's in there. I moved to New York like because I became convinced that our house was haunted in LA. And now I'm so pissed because why did I not call that chapter by ghost all? Like, why?

I just thought of it the other day. And I'm so pissed. Actually, my friend Mike was like, it's by ghost all. Mike by ghost all tweet. But I was like, yeah, convinced the house was haunted. I follow the people who own the house now on on instagram just see if they're okay well i'm pissed because nothing seems to have happened to them it's like really annoying maybe something will i keep waiting yeah i also don't like how they decorate

producers of ninja turtles exactly and then this and the third book was the novel city of likes which is like about you know a new a new, a young mom of two living in Manhattan who falls under the influence of, under the spell of like a, you know, a very prominent mommy influencer. It's kind of like

Heathers meets Mean Girls in Lower Manhattan. There's some really like fucked up shit that happens. How true is this book? A lot of it is based on fact. A lot of it. How much is a lot of it is based on fact. A lot of it. How much is a lot of it?

I would say that the stuff that people think is fake is usually the true stuff in all of my books. What's something like so outlandish that it's like a hook to get us all to go get the book? Like something that will just be like jaw on the floor. Oh, my God. Well, I can't give it away. But like there is like somebody who gets like mowed down by an Uber, like an uber and the like first yeah it gets it goes gets crazy it gets dark and this is the one that you were going to burn bridges with if you made it yes like memoirs yes yes because i just call out a lot of people that that if you are on instagram and in that like mom space

you'll recognize these people so that's why i was like this is not a good idea for me so you don't think it's going to burn the bridges by people no because she didn't say well it's fiction yeah it's fiction michael it's fiction and what dictator lunches is the the the book which is like you know teaching moms like how to basically curate lunch because i don't consider myself a chef i'm just like cur It's like, what do I have in the fridge that's left over? What can I throw together to make, you know, a healthy, fun, engaging meal for my kid? Because I just believe that like the more we dumb down food for kids, like the more like dumb food they're going to eat. Like there shouldn't be. I don't know why in this country there's a kid's menu. It's like, why am I having a salad with a salmon? And then I'm like throwing nuggets at you

like you're like some sort of animal on the floor. But I expect you to grow into like a civilized human being who can like use a fork and knife. It doesn't make sense. That's actually a good point. It's so true. And you know what? I bet you, I'm just going to guess, there's not a lot of kids menus in Europe, right? At all.

No, in Europe. I'm in Europe like three times a year with my kids. And they're like, you're eating what I'm eating. There's no choice. They're like, I'll have the caviar with a side of pate it's like well they're just like yeah they're like here's your like fucking schnitzel and schnitzel and you're good with it yeah jenny you're amazing you can come back anytime i can talk to you about 600 things where can everyone find you your book pimp yourself out I'm on Instagram still trying to segue off

into something else but I'm Jenny Mullen on Instagram Jenny Mullen dot com has like all the link trees that lead to all the things never going back to Twitter

I'm on Twitter you could like see me on Twitter even with the new shakeups going on Twitter's wild lately God Twitter's like even freakier now

who knows I got re-engaging because it just got so wild there with all this stuff going on. It is fun now to like spy. Yeah, there's a lot going on. There is a lot happening. There's nothing off limits on Twitter anymore.

It's just, it's all out there. It's just like Wild West. Maybe you should get back on. I may need to reintroduce. Or TikTok. I'm on TikTok, but I don't know how to work it exactly. That's okay.

I'm like a grandma like who's driving, but she's like probably should have her license revoked. That's me on TikTok, but I don't know how to work it exactly. That's okay. I'm like a grandma who's driving, but probably should have her license revoked. That's me on TikTok. Jenny, thank you for coming on. You guys should definitely go check out her books. I'm obsessed. To win a copy of Jenny's book that's signed by her, all you have to do is tell us your favorite part of this episode

on our latest YouTube. So head over to YouTube. You can watch this episode on video and just leave a comment and tell us your favorite parts. And Jenny will send a copy of her book to one of you that is signed. Thank you guys so much for listening and we will see you on Monday. I do not travel without my little detox drops and my beauty water. First of all, it comes in a set. It's by Saqqara and it comes in like a matte black bottle and a matte white bottle. And the detox drops are chlorophyll and the beauty drops are like minerals. So what I do when I wake up is I make my water immediately. Lots of ice, lemon, mint, ginger. I mix it up and then I put my detox drops in there and my beauty water drops. And what I feel like this does is the chlorophyll is really good for blood circulation and energy.

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