The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Kenzie Ziegler On Dance Moms, Mental Health, Family Dynamics, & How To Navigate Social Media In A Healthy Way

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

#600: Today we're sitting down with Dance Moms alum, Mackenzie Ziegler. Kenzie is an American singer, actress, former dancer, and internet personality. Today Kenzie joins us on the show to discuss all things Dance Moms, being placed in the spotlight at 6 years old, and what it's like growing up under the Hollywood microscope. She talks about her relationship with the other cast members, how her family dynamic evolved over the years, and why she decided to write a song dedicated to her father. We also dive into all things therapy, growing up and making friends as a famous teenager, and what she's learned over 10+ years of being a famous kid. Lastly we dive into how today's social media atmosphere affected her & how she's dealt with trolls, fake friends, and how Dance Moms changed her life.   To connect with Kenzie click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts Bosstick click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Page click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by Dreamland Baby Use code code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off all Dreamland Baby Co items and free shipping at dreamlandbabyco.com This episode is brought to you by eBay Ensure your next purchase is the real deal with eBay Authenticity Guarantee. Everyone deserves real. Visit ebay.com for terms. This episode is brought to you by Deloloa Spritz Visit DelolaLife.com to find a store near you that carries Delola and follow @delola on instagram to learn more! Please enjoy responsibly. This episode is brought to you by Barefaced Visit Barefaced.com and use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Ring Concierge Shop fine jewelry at ringconcierge.com and use code SKINNY for 20% off your fine jewelry purchase. Offer valid until 9/14/2023.   This episode is brought to you by Westin Hotels At Westin hotels, there’s amenities and offerings aimed to help you move well, eat well, and sleep well, so you can keep your well-being close, while away. Find wellness on your next stay at Westin Produced by Dear Media.  

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Aha! I mean, I started when I was six, so I was like, why is this man with a camera in my face? I just completely, like, I did not understand what we were doing. But as time went on, of course, it got more, I got used to it. It was like, this is my life now. It got to a point where it was a lot for me because I didn't even have any time for myself even just because it was it was dance, dance, dance, dance. So I even quit dance one time just and quit the show because because I was like, I can't do this anymore. It's like a lot of pressure. And but on the show, we show today. She's an American singer, actress, former dancer, and internet personality. She is 19 years old, and she has built a massive

following. I feel like she has like 14 million followers, a massive brand, and she is really killing it with her singing career. You may recognize her because she appeared as a child for six years on the Lifetime reality dance series, Dance Moms. To see her come on our show as a 19-year-old blows my mind. At 19, I was showing my tits somewhere in Cabo. So props to her. In this episode, she's going to walk us through growing up in the spotlight, how she manages her business, and how she manages all of this in the spotlight because it's a lot. Let's welcome singer and songwriter Kenzie to the Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her.

Taylor, don't get excited. She's 19 years old. She just became legal, Taylor. Don't even look at her. That's hilarious. Okay, so we have someone I think is one of the most successful 19-year-olds I've ever met. Thank you so much. The amount of success that you have had at 18, 19 years old is crazy.

I was like with a fake ID on the bar half naked at your age. I love that though. Yeah, it was fun. But like, I feel like what you're doing, you're on the right path. Thank you. Thank you. I was under the bar on the floor. You were under the bar looking at my skirt.

I was trying. Yeah, you were. Okay. So I would love to just, I told you off air, just tell your story and I would love to go. Taylor makes fun of me that I say this. I would love to go all the way back. I would love to go back to your childhood before dance moms. So talk to us about what your family dynamic was before dance moms even came about. You know, it's honestly really hard to kind of go back and

remember everything just because I was so young. But my family dynamic was kind of complicated just because my mom and my dad, from what I can remember, were going through a divorce very, very young. I think I was around four years old and it was just my sister and I in the house. But I think when I turned five is when we moved out of my dad's house and moved into just like a random home, just the three of us. And what was that like? Do you even remember at four and five years old? I don't fully remember, but I remember that it was a very hard time because I was such a daddy's girl when I was younger. So I think it was definitely more difficult for me than it was for my sister. For sure. I have a three-year-old and I sometimes look at her and I'm like,

is she going to remember this period? And I could never figure it out because I can't remember being three. They probably just remember like feelings and emotions, you know, like not specific things. Totally. I remember core memories, like just important memories when I was younger. So when you moved in with your mom and your sister and your dad was away, was that easy? Was it difficult? It was hard because I still didn't really understand what was going on. Just because when you're when you're four, like you don't understand divorce. And all I just remember was just my dad not being there. And it was just really strange.

And I didn't see him that much. So. And your sister are you close at this point my sister and I are best friends yes but she was the one that would like constantly get me ready for school when I was younger and like when my mom was at work she would pour my cereal for me and like she my sister was she's always mentally been way older than she is like she seriously was like my second mom it was really awesome what's the gap in age we're 20 months apart oh wow close i'm super close very very close and is she still like that today yes yes even more now than she was before so at what point do you start really getting into dance we both started dancing when we were two years old very very because of your mom or your dad my dad actually went to college with my dance teacher so we we kind of decided to go to dance because of how he knew her and also my mom just

like loved how we looked in a tutu so of course do i need to get my daughter into dance immediately yes when i took her to dance class and she like was off in the corner doing her own dance like i love that no i loved it i loved it too it was hysterical yeah she's off in the corner making up her own thing like i don't even know what she was doing she might not have even been dancing she gets that from me that's what i used to do in school i would just kind of be off in the corner doing my own thing were you guys taking dance really seriously when you were really little or was it something that sort of evolved it kind of evolves I mean when you're like two of course you've seen like

you kind of just like don't really learn anything it's more just fun and we started with like tap and acro so we would just like have little tap shoes and we had so much fun but Maddie took it very very seriously when she was around like six I never fully took dance seriously I feel like it was more of you know all of my friends were there I also wasn't I was homeschooled for most of my life so that was like my main oh what's that like I want to talk about that actually you know I I it's a it's a hard question because I loved being homeschooled I mean my sister was like my only classmate and we got to go in our pjs and like go at any time. And, you know, my stepdad was like my teacher. So it was like very, it was very nice to have like a one of teacher that like kind of helps you through everything. But I did miss out on,

you know, all the school things like football games, homecoming. But were you able to go be social at those kinds of events or because you're homeschooled, you're not able to go? You are able to go if, of course, you have friends there. So I attended some football games, but it wasn't the full experience. And most people would be like, why is she here? Who is this person? From an education standpoint, do you feel like you got a proper education? Definitely.

Yeah, because I think a lot of people are debating the homeschool route these days, where I feel like back when you did it it was still a little I mean we all started being homeschool way back in the day and then everyone started going to school but this is becoming more popular now a lot of parents are talking about this especially because people are trying to figure out school choice and what curriculum they want for their kids to learn but I always wonder like one the social aspect if you feel you got it and two like from an education standpoint if you feel you got maybe a better education or you know i we went to school till i was in third grade so but we actually got kicked out of school because we missed so many days of school because of dance because dance kind of

consumes your whole entire life so we got kicked out of school then we did home we did homeschool but we started online which was the easiest thing ever like I swear I cheated through the whole fourth grade like it was so simple and I just felt like I wasn't learning anything and my stepdad like I'm very lucky he was he was retired so he started teaching us and I he was so smart and he really helped me and it's kind of nice like knowing your teacher on that kind of level yeah I feel like I got a better education I did like two grades in one year like I you get like a ton of personal attention yes of course it's so nice like having that like hands-on attention and I guess you can like kind of pick the curriculum to follow what do they do they

just go through what I guess the required curriculums are to get credits right because you still get credits to go to college if you want right yes of course yeah I did all I did everything that I would be doing in school so i kind of i did textbooks i did all of the textbooks i would be doing in school no i think i mean honestly it's we're parents and i think especially now with school safety and all sort like people really like question where they want to put their kids um it's like kind of scary times when a kid's in school i am very lucky honestly that i didn't go to school because I would be terrified for sure. So there's pros and cons. There's pros and cons. Okay. At what point does the dance mom's producer approach you or your mom? How does that even work?

It's honestly really funny, but basically the dance world on the East Coast is like pretty huge and take it very, very seriously. There's crazy moms everywhere on the East Coast is like pretty huge and take it very, very seriously. There's crazy moms everywhere on the East Coast. So they went around to a bunch of different studios. They wanted to create a show on, you know, dance, dancing, but it was supposed to be a documentary. So they went around with a bunch of studios and our moms were the craziest. So they went with our studio and we they interviewed everyone at our studio they picked us we were super excited because we thought it was just going to be

a docu-series and then the first episode we were filming ended up there was a fight between two moms and so they they made it into a reality show that day and so help me through this guys so the moms are fighting because they are competitive and they want their kids to be the stars. Is that essentially summing it up? They want the best outfit. They want the best hair and makeup. They want their kid to have a solo. The leg to kick the highest. I mean, I could lie to you and pretend I was regularly tuning in. It's not, I just, maybe I was not the target. Don't watch it. Now that I target. I have a weird thing. We should do Dance Dads. I agree.

I have a weird thing. When people come on this show, if I haven't seen their show, I almost can't watch it. But now that I've met you, now I might have to watch it. It's the same thing when people from reality shows come on or docu-series.

Now that I know you, now I have a connection point to the show. So I'll be tuning into Dance Moms. Oh my gosh, please no. But I honestly was six years old, so I'm like okay now I have like a connection point to the show totally so I'll be tuning in to Dance Moms oh my gosh please no but I honestly was I was like six years old so I look very different than I do now

you mentioned that your mom was crazy why was your mom crazier than the other moms my mom was not the craziest one she wasn't I will say

no she I think the reason why people thought she was so crazy is she just wanted the best for us always that's not so crazy what's the base level crazy

like if you're if you're rating your mom one to ten compared to the other moms i think i think there were a few moms on the show that like obviously we still talk to i mean when you were when we were younger the producers would obviously like make them yell at each other or whatever but sometimes like the moms would get in fist fights sometimes the mom would like throw drinks at one another like they would they just fight over their kids and who's better constantly so like there was this one episode where like they were in new orleans and like one of the moms like throws a drink on the other one mothers are fistfighting on this show yeah i'm definitely tuning oh yeah i'm seeing it i mean

i get it i've never seen in like a full episode so i i feel like i need to go back and watch it just for that okay so outside of just the dancing it's also the drama of these mothers that want their children to be the best. Yes, absolutely. Dance moms. Got it. Yes. Yeah.

I mean, you've seen like cheerleading moms. It's like pageant moms. Yeah. They're like, it's almost a little bit to me and correct me if I'm wrong, that the mom's almost living vicariously through the child. Most of the time. Did you feel like that? Or was it not like that with your mom my mom no my mom never wanted to

be a dancer and she never really thought that we were going to be doing it professionally but my sister was like really wanted to pursue it I was just there for the fun of it you know so looking back you're it sounds like you're happy with how your mom handled it because she just wanted the best for you and had good intentions absolutely yes and did those did that I mean it obviously worked out because look where you are now right I mean she obviously was on the right trajectory what about the other moms that were like crazy and fighting how did their kids turn out are they amazing they're all amazing yes they're so amazing you know most some of them are you know went to college and and started becoming like a normal kid which I totally understand and yeah we still talk to we still talk to all of them we're still very close

my mom like has a podcast with all the moms so it's like yeah it's it's hilarious so they all podcast together all podcast together and it's great it's honestly so great I bet it's funny it is funny because now they're like so past the point and they just like all love each other because we have like all grown up with each other basically what was it like having all these producers in your ear at such a young age do you did you think it was weird at the time or just normal I I mean I started when I was six so I was like why is this man with a camera in my face? I just completely like I did not understand what we were doing. But as time went on, of course, it got more I got used to it.

It was like, this is my life now. And did you still be homeschooled while you were while you were doing this? So you're homeschooling, you're doing dance. What was like a big epiphany or break that happened when you were on the show? It got to a point where it was a lot for me because I didn't even have any time for myself even just because it was constant it was dance dance dance dance so I even quit dance one time just and quit the show because for like two days because I was like I can't do this anymore it's like a lot of pressure and especially competition is very hard but on the show you know we would compete every single week and that's not normal for an actual dancer it's like once every few months you said you quit but

every single day did you wake up and were you like dreading it or was it something that you really loved I definitely did dread it for sure yeah it seems like to do that all the time when you're that little it'd be it's it's essentially like you have a full-time job. Of course. Yes, totally. So looking back, would you recommend, like, would you want to put your kids through this or no? Dance, I think, yes. I definitely, when I have kids later, later, later in life, I would definitely put them into dance.

In like 20 years. In like 20 years, not right now. But I feel like, honestly, dance, just kind of being in that world has made me mature, has taught me a lot of things and taught me how to stand up for myself as well. Because the dance world is like crazy. Like other, other girls are, are mean. So I, I feel like I, I got like tough skin from it. So I, yeah, I would recommend it.

When you started to get recognized from the show, was that a trip? It was so weird. It was so weird. How old were you when this happened? Six. Oh, so it's really weird. Yeah. I, It was so weird. It was so weird. How old were you when this happens? Six. Oh, so it's really weird. Yeah. I was in school. I was in school for like the first year of it. And it was like, so weird seeing all my friends be like obsessed with me. Like it was just like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, what do you mean? It was so weird because the show like blew up so

fast and I didn't even know really what was going on but then you know everyone would be like so what's this and ask all these questions and all these questions and I would just be like wait you watch this show like you actually watch this show like this is crazy that is a trip yeah so people like doing things for the wrong reasons or just being really intrigued I think they were just really intrigued I mean we were so young that they were probably just like, this is so cool that you're on a show, you know? It's interesting. We've met so many people doing this. And there's a certain thing, like,

if you reach a certain level of notoriety, you almost, like, people just, a lot of people don't know how to treat that person in the way that they would treat other, like, people that maybe don't have those platforms. And people behave differently around people with those kind of platforms. And it's like, you know, being on the receiving end of that at times, like it's, it's, it's awkward because at the end of the day, you realize like everybody's just a person,

just some people have a little bit more of a, I guess like a platform or recognizability, but it's, it's, it's, it's weird because I think people just don't know how to engage around people that have that level of exposure. Completely. I totally got why people were so weird with me when I was younger. As that's evolved and you've gotten older and you've gotten even more followers and you've gotten even more famous, how do you sort of like gatekeep that? I feel like for me, I'm very, it's just been my life. Like really, my whole life is on the internet. So I feel like very okay with it. And I feel like I'm very authentic with my followers

or whatever you want to call them. Like I feel like they know everything about me, which I think is really cool because most of them have grown up watching the show and are watching what I'm doing now. And they're, you know, my age. And it's really awesome. Throughout the show being on on how did your relationships with all your family members evolve? It was a hard

dynamic with my family because of course they didn't understand and from just being little kids to being just like on the one of the biggest like tv shows it was like very weird for them and they also just felt kind of awkward reaching out because i feel like they thought that we had this ego that we were better than them which never like it's a reality show like it's not you know that's interesting i've never heard anyone say that but that makes so much sense so instead of over reaching out and being like all up your ass they were complete opposite and they stopped reaching out because they thought you had an ego and they that you wouldn't want to hear from them of course

huh is it still like that now no i feel like you know we've definitely grown closer to our family now but it was just like a weird dynamic and it was just like when we would go to like thanksgiving it was like kind of awkward just because they were like they probably don't want to be here or whatever so that makes total yeah it makes a lot of sense yeah it's opposite of what you normally hear but that makes a lot of sense what about with your dad were you able to stay in touch with him while you were filming the show yeah he he would sometimes come to our like dance competitions to support, but he, it slowly and slowly as we got older, it kind of just no communication really. He chose to kind of just not come around anymore?

Yeah. I mean, my family is like a complicated dynamic where like I have like eight other siblings. So they've, he's been remarried like three times. So he has like a whole new family. He has other children. Yeah. Yes. And you guys were the first ones so my dad was married before he met my mom and had two boys and then now you know my my mom married

him and so then it was the four of us and then he remarried has three kids but my stepdad had two kids before he married my mom so if that that, when I explain this to people, they're like, can you repeat that? So there's nine total. Yes. Yeah. But your dad has seven kids. Yes, basically. Yes.

Got it. Got it. Four real kids. But yes, like three stepkids. Got it. I think, I think I got it. I know, right? It is complicated.

It is complicated. So, so during Dance Moms, did you know that you were sort of building the brand that you have today obviously you were six but as it went on did you know that you were building something like bigger absolutely not no idea no how long did it go on like when when you finished all this like what what age were you i was 12 okay yeah we left we left earlier than the rest of the show ended like we were just like we can't do this anymore yeah but it's smart to leave the party early of course i know right to leave the party

early so when when you leave you have this social platform and you when did you know that this is going to be a massive thing that it is today i mean you have 14 million followers on instagram like it's crazy it is crazy to me still i it is crazy I still I don't think I really ever like was like I'm gonna be massive I feel like it was more just like this is genuinely my like it's just been my life for so long that it just felt normal to me like I yeah I don't know it felt super super normal and after we left the, it kind of made us have just more fun with like reacting, like interacting with people and doing more things and like doing brands and just like doing a bunch of things that we wouldn't be able to do on the show because we were so

busy all the time. So when did you start sort of adding in the singing and adding in what you're doing with American Eagle? Like what you are, you're obviously building a brand and being thoughtful and purposeful about it when did you start to do all these things when I was on the show they actually put me into like making a music project when I was like eight years old which was like I had still I had no idea what I was doing so I I loved. So they kind of just like put me into that. But when I I stopped for a while after the show because I just thought, you know, I probably only did this because of the show. I don't think it's actually a passion of mine. But when I started when I turned like 13, I realized that it's something I really wanted to do just because

I love sharing my story in like a different way and and being relatable and I feel like music is kind of like therapy for me so it's I don't enjoy therapy as much so all right I'm gonna tell you something that changed the game when it comes to sleeping for my son like I wish I had this with Zaza I'm so sad I didn't. And that is a lightly weighted sleep sack. There are things that I do to get my son to sleep, and this is such a big one. I do the smallest little bit of white noise. I like 528 hertz playing in his room. Obviously dark. I don't like any light. And then I do a lightly weighted sleep sack. And the one that I use is by Dreamland Baby. You guys, let me tell you about this. The dream weighted sleep sack

is a real dream, especially for your baby, because it helps the baby sleep so much. I can't even tell you what a good sleeper Towns is. And it's not even that he's like a good sleeper. It's just that I have all the right tools. And the best tool is the weighted sleep sack. They have all different colors. I did like a neutral one. And then I also got him a white one. So we switch it up. It's beautiful fabric. And it keeps them calm. I noticed the second that I put it on him, he associates it with sleep. And it immediately calms his nervous system. This makes total sense because I use a weighted blanket and I'm immediately calmed down.

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on Instagram to learn more. Please enjoy responsibly. So again, make sure to go check out dulolalife.com so you can find a store near you that carries Dulola. And you can also follow at Dulola on Instagram to learn more. Please enjoy responsibly. How does one even start going about a singing career? I mean, you said you started when you're 13, you're 19 now. So it's taken a lot of work, clearly. Yeah. How did you even start to put those pieces together? said you started when you're 13 you're 19 now so that it's it's taken a lot of work clearly yeah how did you even start to put those pieces together you know I got signed to a label very very young when I was 13 I think and they kind of just like put me in a bunch of sessions with people and I was meeting new people I was making so much music and it was kind of difficult because

I was so young that it was kind of like a scary it was a whole new environment because I'm so used to the dance industry that the music industry is completely different so yeah that's kind of how I started I left them as of now but I was with them for quite a while when you get signed to a label is that like we were talking to somebody else about this on the show what kind of relevancy do they play in your career now because i mean things have changed so much where like literally you could just create something and share it with your 14 million people right away like so do you what do they do for you specifically at this point they basically put you on playlists they get you in rooms with different you know writers and

producers and they they overall just push everything just a little more because of course social media can do so much. But now like TikTok is a thing where it's like if your song blows up on there, then it will blow up outside of TikTok. But, you know, they. Is that the goal now? People try to get stuff on TikTok and have it blow up? I guess so. I mean, I'm honestly not like I love TikTok, but it's it's kind of it's weird for me just because how when i was younger music would just

you would go buy someone's cd and like play it all the time and it was like that kind of thing you would just support one person but now it's like there's so many new artists which i think is really cool but it's just like a different it's like taylor swift songs i feel like whenever they're on tiktok it does blow up way bigger than i think it would if there wasn't tiktok totally it's weird huh but no you're right like we used no, you're right though. We used to go buy albums. Right. I used to go to the warehouse and buy a CD and I used to have my no skip disc jockey thing.

What is no skip disc? You know, people don't even remember this. You put the CD in there. Taylor, you remember these things? And if you hit it, you were like fancy if you had one that didn't skip when you were playing it. It was before the iPod. I never noticed it.

Yeah, you had that crusty version. I had i had the no skip the crusty version drop this thing on the cement and still be still be good but you would listen to like the whole album right now i feel like a lot of it is just like listening to one song right yeah there's so many so many what is it like coming from the east coast to hollywood it was definitely very weird for me jarring huh yes because where i lived it's very everyone knows each other it's like very small town and so when i came here also i i always tell people this because i think it's so funny when we first moved here we thought hollywood boulevard was like the only thing in la so like we only went to no i i get that like you

think that that street's like the like famous street where you're gonna see celebrities walking by and now i drive by and i'm like this is so dirty and like scary like i don't want to hang out up there right it's like what but yeah when i moved here i honestly i of course i was so excited because this was kind of the place to be but we moved during the show so we had to like live out here for like a long time it's a weird city to break into right like i think a lot of people struggle with this city because they one they don't realize how big it is right like new york you kind of bounce around and do that like the transportation's not great here and it's massive and then you kind of don't really know where to go when you first come and it's hard to find your

people i mean you probably experience it of course I think a lot of people have a much different notion of what LA is compared to what it actually is right I don't know how to explain it better than that no I get it though like it has a lot of the great things you think about but it also has a lot of tough things about it so what was that like was it was it how did you make friends how did you break in what do you do I met a lot of people at because you know our dance teacher opened a studio out here and this was when the show was really big I guess and it's so weird saying that it was but it was pretty big and we had a dance studio where everyone would just come and take classes because of the show and so there was just a bunch of random people and so i started making friends with kind of like kids in the industry that were doing music or acting or whatever because there

are so many kids here like trying to make it in hollywood so i made a lot of friends and i made too many friends i feel like i was like making friends with the wrong people when i was younger some of those people were there for the wrong reasons definitely maybe they like saw your platform and thought hey i can kind of hang on here and develop something for myself definitely or even just like you know there's a lot of fake people here and i i don't think i really understood that until i grew up like it i just wanted to be friends with everyone well it's a weird city and i gotta say this kindly because but it's a weird city because it's one of the only places in the world where people come with the idea that they're talented enough to have the world watching them

or listening to them or caring about what they're saying. And so you get these kind of like, you know, you're not pursuing a normal career path. Like it is, it's a strange career path to come here and be like, okay, someone's going to discover me or I'm going to get in the right group. And then they're going to watch me or I'm going to get in a movie or I'm going to get in a show or I'm going to get some music. It's just a weird, like it, it attracts a kind of a weird person to begin with. I'm not saying that we're some of those people. Right. But it's, it's not like other places like, okay, I'm going to go work in a job and work up in the company and like put in, it's just a different thing right and so you have these kind of strange characters many of which are looking for fast track opportunities like maybe they see you and like oh here's this young girl with a big platform like i'm going to come in and be her friend but it's really like trying to get something from you it's like it's a lot of that so i think like it gets a reputation of a lot of fake people but it's just because there's a lot of these kind of people that are taking this awkward career path. Of course. Well, I think that people are using three things in the city.

They're either using their talent, their looks, or other people. And it sounds to me you're using your talent. Of course, you're beautiful too, but you're using your talent to get to where you want to be. And then you maybe meet up with someone who's using other people. Yes. Well, there's an element of the city that everybody comes with with the mentality of like i need to be discovered and so if you think you've found somebody that can help do that for you you maybe

latch on to them for a reason outside of just being their friend of course of course that's probably a tough thing to navigate as a young girl being new to this type of city yes and funny enough my mom like always knew because moms have this weird intuition thing my mom always knew when someone walked through our house she would be like kenzie they're not they're not going to be good for you and i would always just be like what do you mean mom like what do you i'm gonna prove you wrong i'm gonna prove you wrong and i would always be like you're right because of course i feel like here people grow up so fast here so like. So bad things start to

happen when you're younger. But in Pittsburgh, that would never happen. So I got in with the wrong crowd. I never did anything bad, but I just was surrounding myself with wrong people. And my mom always knew. Yeah, you're just exposed to a lot of it really fast. Yes. What about your sister? Is she sort of doing the same thing you're doing at this point? No, my sister has always been an angel. She has never surrounded herself with bad people. It's crazy. She's just always been amazing.

I think she, when she moved out here, she was like, keep my circle small, which is like what you really should do. She told you to keep your circle small. And so how did you cut out anyone who was toxic? Were you just hurt with it? Or did you how did you cut out anyone who was toxic? Were you just hurt with it or did you did you back away slowly? I think I backed away slowly. I'm too nice to be. I'm like I'm really scared of confrontation. So Bethany Frankel said in this episode of Housewives, she goes she goes instead of severing it really like instead of cutting cutting it,

she said always back away slowly it's easier to back away slower because if you just sever it then it's like this big to do and I feel like if you just back off slowly sometimes it's easier I agree yeah because then there's like less ego for the other person right less hatred even you know yeah so you wrote your song about your childhood story. Talk to us about that. You know, I started doing therapy when I was when I first turned 18 years old and I didn't know I had all of these feelings about my dad growing up. I feel like when I was younger, I would just kind of be like, I have daddy issues and like joke about it with my friends because I mean, it is a normal thing that, you know, parents are are divorced but it didn't really hit me until I turned 18 and I was bawling my eyes out every day in therapy

over him it was just a weird moment and she told me to write a letter to my dad so I can kind of get all of that emotion out and I did not want to do that I felt really weird doing that so I ended up just writing a song for her to hear like it was just for her to hear and I ended up like loving it more than anything I've ever done so I was it was very scary to put it out but I honestly feel like I've I'm helping a lot of people as well you know has your dad heard it yes he has and what does he say, you know, he actually called me about it. And we kind of didn't really talk about it. I think he was like, I heard your song. It's really pretty.

Like, it's beautiful. And I was like, thank you. Do you hate it? And he was like, I don't hate it. And he was kind of just like, there's parts that I don't like about it. But he apologized, which was like, never really heard that from him. That's very cathartic. don't like about it but he apologized which was like never really heard that from him that's very cathartic yeah what were the circumstances that got you into therapy at such a young age

because i talk about that a lot on the show too that's that's that's young to start yeah i think honestly just like i feel like i have a lot of anxiety and so like i it got really bad at one point where my mom was like you need to talk to someone about this because it was getting so bad so bad to the point where I would drive in my car and pass out just because I was so anxious. Did you have panic attacks? Yeah, I would just have massive panic attacks. My sister and I both are the same. We've just been dealing with it. And I genuinely think it's just because of us being in the public eye so young.

It's just a lot on a young girl. And there's a lot of things that we haven't really come to terms with. I think we kind of bury it inside, which is something you should absolutely not do. Well, you know, again, we've had people with similar stories here on the show. I think one of the benefits that Lauren and I have had is, you know, we're almost twice your age and we kind of grew up without any of this stuff. And then as the platforms have grown, like we're fully adults with all our faculties and we've got a lot of experiences. And so we've been able to almost curate and manage that experience.

But to be in it since you're six years old and know nothing different. I mean, I know how people are. People can be crazy and wild. And if that becomes your life, you may think you're managing it well, but I imagine that can compound and compound. And all of a sudden you're sitting there like one day, like, Hey,

like I feel, I think what could, what would be hard. There's a lot of asks from a lot of people and it's a lot of outrageous asks. And it's, it's almost like Chinese torture with the asks. It's like this person asked this, but it's like death by a thousand cuts.

It's like so many asks over and over and over by different people right that managing that at such a young age seems overwhelming because like michael said you don't know you don't have the tools that you have when you're an adult and people can be assholes about they say well this is what you wanted you should be grateful which you are on one hand grateful but at the same time like sometimes people don't understand personal boundary totally and i think yeah i mean i, I mean, I am so, so grateful. Like, honestly, I really am. And I'm very humble about everything that I have, but it was just, it was hard not really having like a full on childhood, you know, like I see all of my friends, like just being normal with their friends and I didn't really get to have that. So it was like,

I felt like I really missed out a lot in my life. You're almost mourning something that is in a way owed to you. Like a childhood, it's like it should be owed to a child. Of course. So that makes sense of why it gives you anxiety. I can totally understand that. So when do you start talking to your audience about mental health issues? I started very young, actually. I started talking about anxiety when I was like 13 because I feel like it was so, it was just so awesome to see other,

you know, social media influencers or whatever talk about it. And it honestly helped me so much that I felt like maybe someone else can relate to this as well and make me also feel like I'm not alone because I felt like I was the only one that was having anxiety when I was younger because it wasn't talked about as much until I grew older and it's now like a thing there's nothing natural to about having a camera shoved in your face producers telling you what to do I mean I like it it's very very intense there's nothing natural about that and I think growing up with that would be very very overwhelming it seems like you've handled it very eloquently and the fact that you have the awareness to go to therapy is incredible at 18 years old thank you do you still do therapy are you still like

are you an advocate for it oh I I definitely think everyone should at least try therapy at least once I mean sometimes it doesn't work out for people but i it has helped me tremendously i just am i feel weird talking with you know someone that i've paid to listen to my feelings you know like i feel like they're only listening because they're being paid and that's what we're not we're not being paid we're here no not you not you please i will no you guys are great i didn't know that payment was an option We're not being paid. We're here. No, not you. Not you. You can come talk on it. I'm like, please, I will. No, you guys are great. I didn't know that payment was an option. Yeah.

No, I get that. I think I would, I struggle with that kind of thing. I've never done therapy. I'm not saying that I, listen, I'm not the first. You do therapy every single day with me. I'm a therapist. You should pay me. When you have friends that are your therapist, you don't need a therapist.

But what I do do, to your point, is like I keep the i keep the circle tight right right i feel like that's super important you know a lot of times people just like especially people in your position like i've we've had people come in this studio and the entourage is bigger than the right like i haven't i don't know that many people in my life right it's just like i'm like what is going on out here um and i think that could be problematic so you got to keep it tight but no i mean i can understand why it might feel strange for some people not just you or me to get into therapy like you're just listening to me because it's your job when at the same time you're like burying your soul to this person exactly but again like we've had so many people come on here and talk about how beneficial it really is it really is like it helps me tremendously like i don't get i don't get so

worked up anymore because it's just so you should talk to even if you're scared of therapy you should talk to your mom you should talk to your sister you should you should talk about your feelings because I feel like bottling them up has just made me like explode you know but in a way I can imagine also with you and tell me if I'm wrong you've probably felt at times where like this is a hard thing to complain about and not a lot of people relate to it because it's like here I am I'm wrong, you've probably felt at times where like, this is a hard thing to complain about. Of course. And not a lot of people relate to it because it's like, here I am, I'm upset because all these people are coming up to me and I'm famous and like, I'm on a show. And the majority of

people from the outside are looking at that like, well, too bad for you. Like they would die for that opportunity because they haven't experienced it. And so you're in this weird position where these are real struggles you're going through, but it's not relatable. We recently had Jordan Harper of Barefaced on the podcast and I got to pick her brain

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and you can pay for therapy and you have this, so you can't deal with these struggles like I do. And it's like I completely understand. I do have a lot going for me, I and I'm so blessed to like have this life but of course everyone goes through struggles no matter what you're doing in life so I feel like that was hard for me to be like maybe I don't maybe I am not qualified to have these issues or like maybe I can't feel this way because I have so much you know the privilege police though the problem with this the privilege the problem with the privilege police is that who's deciding what you're allowed and what you're not allowed to do and what box or which category of income or like there's not

like a manual for what you're do you know what i mean like they come out and they they give you these sort of like boxes that you're allowed to you're allowed to have anxiety if you have this but you're not allowed if you have this like i just don't know who invented this personal perception is obviously very different for everybody and there could be the same like maybe we lauren and i could have the same issue that issue could devastate her and maybe not upset me at all it doesn't mean that the issue to her is not important right it's like and i think people you know their worst experience is their worst experience, where if something happens to somebody like, I don't know, something extreme like the loss of a child, they're

going to feel like that type of loss is so devastating. The person complaining to that person about losing their job, the perception is so far gone. But if the person that lost their job the worst thing that ever happened to them is that they lost their job then the still the perceived trauma is still just as strong of course so like going in from the outside and telling people what they can feel sad or mad or upset about based on your experiences is a bit insensitive right of course this doesn't you know like you may you get what i'm saying here yes totally and but and that's the problem

with people like and also those people that say privilege like there's people in other parts of the world that have it way worse than those right that's what i'm saying it's not yeah it's like people in other areas of the world have it way way harder than the people are saying that you can't feel this way so this is like this is there's this fake scale that people have just made up on the internet the reality is is what what you said everyone feels differently about different experiences and you have to hold space to let people go through what they're going through without constantly attacking them privileged police of course privileged police how do you again and i asked this actually curiously selfishly for my own daughter

when you're that young and you're on these platforms and the world is commenting on what you're doing how you're behaving you know what you're wearing you know what you eat like all of these things like basically the world is being a voyeur into your personal life at a young age how are you able to kind of cipher through what to listen to and what to block out it was really hard for me when i was younger i mean when i was a teenager like i i of course was still trying to figure out who i was and what i wanted to do and the people i wanted to surround myself with so of course like everything that i did was on the internet like say i said a bad word when I was 11

like it got exposed and then I would get in trouble and then like people would hate on me like it's there's so much hate in the world so it's like social media and having myself on that so young it was really hard trying to be like I these people are bored and they don't mean this stuff and they it's you know they're just trying to get a reaction out of you like I feel like it took me a really long time to just come to terms with that and be like I'm I know who I am and I know I'm a good person and if these people are hating on me then they get lost you know do you ever take breaks yes so do I yes I take breaks I love breaks and if I didn't have breaks that I wouldn't have peace of mind you have to take breaks how do you do that do is it something that you plan out is it something that

you just feel day to day I you know if there's like one day where I'm like okay this is I'm it's getting too much I will just genuinely call my team and be like okay I'm gonna take a two-week break and they're like okay two week no Instagram stories nothing you know some it, it just depends if I want to, if I don't. It's kind of just like from everything, from work, from, you know, writing sessions, from, you know, anything. So you'll just say, I want to take a break from it all. Yes, all of it. And they respect that. Yes, absolutely.

I mean, I've been with the same, basically with the same team since I was six years old. So like my manager is like my second like one of my moms like really she really she knows us from the back of her hand like she's she believes in us and if we want a break she doesn't want to burn us out so she lets us take a break. Well my thing is too if you're playing a long game which you are you're building a brand you're becoming a singer too are a singer you have all these different things that you're doing. Absence is just as important as presence. Of course. And I think that we're about to see a huge shift with people understanding that absence is just as important. People have put such a fucking emphasis on presence and showing up

to social media every day and posting on Instagram every single day that what it's doing is it's completely exhausting. Right. And it's doing is it's completely exhausting. And it's making people feel like they have no capacity for anything else because they're showing up day after day after day. For me, I'm building something that's long term. And if you're going to run a marathon, you have to realize that the importance of breaks and being absent is just as important as showing up.

It's like, it's almost like an athlete. So I'm happy that that shift is about to come. I have a sidebar question for you. There's a lot of new young parents listening. And I think one thing that we all think about now, which we never thought about before is this is not going away, right? Like it's busier and busier. Having the experiences that you've had, if you had your own little one and you knew this was going to be part of their life like how how would you navigate that for them or how or what would you allow them to do or not do because because again lauren and i didn't have these things until we got out of college right it's like wasn't we weren't exposed to it and so now

you think like okay you can't shield them from everything right but at the same time like there's got to be some healthy balance or you do you ever think about that i do all the time i mean i have my my baby cousin she was on social media she was kind of on tiktok and she would post and she would do all these dances and everything and at like nine and and and it was like you know tiktok for example like you can't really you don't know what's going to show up on your phone so she of course would like be making these like cute like twerking videos and dancing and like doing all these things and of course my her mom didn't know about it but it's just like you can't really shield your kids from that so she obviously we made her delete it like she was not

allowed to have tiktok until later in life but you know i feel like it's so hard to shield your kids from like the stuff now because everything is just so exposed like i feel like nowadays it's like there's just it's just too much now what age do you think is appropriate i was just gonna ask what age is the appropriate age for a little girl to go on TikTok. Oh my gosh. 25. Yeah, I'm like 13, 12, like 11. I don't know. Like it's, it just, it's crazy. I feel like Instagram is kind of different where like you can follow people.

You know what I'm saying? Like it's kind of generated to your own liking a bit. But the problem that I have with it is that what pops up on the For You page and on the Instagram, whatever, Explore page, I just feel like it's not reality. And what people always ask, like what I'll tell my daughter and what I will tell her is that it's a movie set. You are in a movie set when you are on social media. It's makeup artists that have done people's makeup. It's people who have had plastic surgery. It's people who have filtered their image. Like it is a directed and produced movie set. Right. So you have to look at it like that because if you're not looking at it through the eyes of it being a movie set, it can really fuck you up. Totally.

Totally. And I think growing up also in the public eye and seeing all of that on instagram of all these girls that were so tiny and had big boobs and like were perfect and like it was so hard because like i would always just be like wow i'm i'm not i don't look like that like i don't i will never look like that and like i'm ugly compared to them you know and it just sets this false reality where it's like if i don't look like that i'm not good enough and i feel like that's what a lot of teenagers have gone through where it's like i would die to be you and i would blah blah blah and it's like but no one actually looks like that instagram's a highlight reel like you know what i'm saying you're not gonna post a picture of you like just waking up with drool on your face and like in your

pjs like no one's gonna do that i do post a picture of me wearing mouth tape, which by the way, is way cooler. Like I feel like I feel like my friends and I like we don't care about social media. Like I genuinely post like ugly photos of me and I make fun of it and like whatever. And and people don't do that. And I'm like, wow, this is honestly so funny. I look like a joke on the Internet because everyone's posting like bikini photos. And I'm like, wow, this is honestly so funny. I look like a joke on the internet. Cause everyone's posting like bikini photos. And I'm just like, not at all.

I think people want that now though. I think like a thousand percent. I think like the bikini images, it's just like so overproduced. People are just scrolling past it. Well, I think the difficulty and why I'm asking is I think the previous generation that didn't have access to this and we were like,

now we have it, obviously we use it, but like your parents, for example, it's probably very difficult for parents who grew up when this technology did not even exist to try to contextualize. So now I think your generation, our generation, you're going to be able to go to the next generations of young people and say, okay, like this is how you have to look at this stuff in a healthy way. Well, like if you're just going through this and nobody's giving you any kind of insight into what's going on, it can start to mess with your head because you think this is reality. And that's not my reality. So I must not be good enough.

Okay. You said, if you grew up without a parent, I hope you know that you're not alone. And this record can provide some type of peace and safe space for you all. There's a lot of people that only grew up with one parent many that grew up with no parents what is your advice you know I think my what got me through kind of this whole situation I think it was just surrounding myself with really good people I feel like my friends were like the the people that really got me through everything in my life and you know having my sister was just like such a good support system because we both were experiencing it and I I honestly think you know going to therapy I feel like would definitely help and also surrounding yourself with good people and doing things that you love I feel like there's so many things that you know with having one single parent there's so many things that you think about that's like I'm not loved or I'm not my family doesn't want me or my dad doesn't want me or it just kind of puts you in this like spot where you

just feel unlike unwanted and I feel like that's just not true. I feel like everyone will. Everyone loves someone. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel like my friends love me more than anyone in this world. Where can everyone find everything you're doing? Tell us about American Eagle. Tell us so excited because obviously we don't work together as much anymore we kind of are going in separate paths she does acting I do music and so it's really nice for us to kind of do something together it's kind of like old times it's very nostalgic um but yeah so it's finally coming out we've done it we've been doing it for like a year now so it's it just feels amazing did you guys design clothes together all of it cool the whole collection cool yeah is there anything that will look cute on me absolutely everything like seriously everything this collection i feel like we since we're dancers i feel like we're so specific

on what's flattering and what's not because we're moving around so much like we really wanted to make this a perfect collection for everyone to wear. No matter what your body type is, we want you to feel comfortable in it. Love it. Yeah. Okay. And where can everyone find your album, your Instagram with 14 million followers, your TikTok? Pimp yourself out.

Oh my gosh. My Instagram is Kenzie. My TikTok is Mackenzie Ziegler. Everything is mainly Kenzie other than my TikTok. And yeah, my spotify is kenzie i'm excited to see where you are in 10 years thank you to be this far along at your age business-wise is incredible and also not just business-wise but in therapy it sounds like you are evolving and evolved so thank you for coming on thank you for having me you guys are awesome

thank you kenzie for coming thank you thank you for having me. You guys are awesome. Thank you, Kenzie, for coming on. Thank you. Thank you guys so much. If you want to watch us on YouTube, you can now come hang out with video. Simply search The Skinny Confidential on YouTube and you can see all of our episodes there. Cheers.