The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Kidnapped By Pirates For 93 Days - The Unbelievable True Story Of Jessica Buchanan & Her Captivity

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

#558: Today we're welcoming Jessica Buchanan to the show. In 2011, Jessica was kidnapped by pirates in Somalia and held hostage for 93 days, before being rescued by SEAL Team 6. Today we sit down with Jessica & discuss what all transpired, how she persevered through living in the desert for 93 days, and how she used her time as a hostage to heal her own personal trauma. She also gets into the role her intuition & inner voice played in her kidnapping, which she also discusses in her newest book, Deserts to Mountaintops. To connect with Jessica Buchanan click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE To subscribe to our YouTube Channel click HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. The Skinny Confidential is 2 years old! Use code PINKBASH on April 7th to celebrate our Two Year Bash Sale.   This episode is brought to you by Armra ARMRA Colostrum strengthens immunity, ignites metabolism, fortifies gut health, activates hair growth and skin radiance, and powers fitness performance and recovery. Visit www.tryarmra.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. This episode is brought to you by Cymbiotika Cymbiotika is a health supplement company, designing sophisticated organic formulations that are scientifically proven to increase vitality and longevity by filling nutritional gaps that result from our modern day diet. Use code SKINNY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase at cymbiotika.com This episode is brought to you by Wella Wella Professionals just released its most luxurious hair care line; Ultimate Repair. You can purchase The Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Ulta stores, or go to wella.com to learn more.   This episode is brought to you by Hatch Hatch taps into your circadian rhythm every morning with a gradual sunrise alarm that wakes you gently. Go to hatch.co and get free expedited shipping on a Restore 2 Alarm Clock. This episode is brought to you byTopgolf The Topgolf experience has a vibe – it’s all about play and having fun. Download the Topgolf app today & book a bay. Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. We never do sales or promotions. I think it happens like twice a year. So this is super exciting because we are having our two-year bash. This is to celebrate The Skinny Confidential product line being in business for two years. It's so crazy. We launched the ice roller two years ago. So to have this sale is major. We're doing 20% off excluding kits and gift cards. So go on shop, get all the tools and products that you need. You can even get gifts, what I do for birthdays. So like I'll order

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wildest dreams how many of you would rally and support this brand. Honestly, every time I see you guys ice rolling, sculpting your face with the pink balls and shaving, it just makes me so grateful. So again, 20% off the entire site, excluding gifts and gift cards. Use code PINKBASH Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to the Skinny Confidential. Him and her. Aha! It's like the great unknown.

It's just vast desert. We're driving down camel tracks and stop for the final time. We're ordered out of the vehicle. And I remember him ordering me to walk out into the desert. And so we do, we just start walking and we're like tripping over these bushes, like thorn bushes and rocks and picking ourselves back up. And it's just so dark that I can hear we're being surrounded and it feels like more of them are coming out of the shadows. And we just walk and we walk and we walk. And finally, we're ordered to stop and get down onto our knees. And I think, okay, this is it. This is it. This is the end of my life here on earth. Hello, everybody. We have one of the wildest

episodes I think we've ever recorded with our guest today, Jessica Buchanan. I am going to read the brief verbatim that I have right now, just to kind of give you a ground floor look at what I'm talking about here. And then this episode, like I said, is probably one of the wilder ones we've ever done. Definitely one of the crazier stories I've ever heard on the show. And that's saying a lot. On October 25th, 2011, while on a routine field mission in Somalia, working as the education advisor for her non-governmental organization, Jessica was abducted at gunpoint and held for ransom by a group of Somali pirates for 93 days. Forced to live outdoors in deplorable conditions, starved and terrorized by more than two dozen gangsters, Jessica's health steadily deteriorated until by order of President Obama, she was rescued by the elite SEAL Team 6 on January 25th, 2012.

Like I said, guys, this is a wild story. Definitely different for us. Definitely a different kind of podcast, but it was so intense while Lauren and I were listening to her. I was captivated. I always felt like I was in a fucking documentary. It was intense. Our producer Carson was on and he was like, what is going on here? Everybody was blown away by this story. I think you will be too. With that, Jessica Buchanan, welcome to the Skinny Confidential Him and Her Show. This is the Skinny Confidential Him and Her. This is one of the wilder stories that we've heard. We've done about 600 of these things. We have yet to have someone who has a story like yours. Before we dive in, because I have a feeling this is going to be an incredible episode, but let's go back with you a little bit. How did you grow up? Where did you grow up? And

how did you even come to be working in Somalia? I'm a teacher by profession, actually. And I grew up in the Midwest. I'm from Southern Ohio. I essentially grew up in the middle of a cornfield is what I say. My parents were makers. So my dad still makes furniture and restores antiques. And so artists, my mom was a jeweler and they were your proverbial hippies in the 60s and 70s. And then they switched from that ideology to religion, kind of grew up conservative in the church. Church was a big deal for us,

went to Christian school and all of that. And I think, you know, just from the very beginning, it was instilled in me that to whom much is given, much is required, you know? So I had been given this education and I had this skill set and I had these gifts and these talents and this home and this family. And so there was just something about the way we were raised that we were always very aware of less fortunate and people who were in need. And there was something inside me that felt like I wanted to give, to serve something, do something. And I've had many lifetimes of college and professions. And I always say that I've taken the scenic route, but I finally went back to college for the final time, like in my early to mid twenties and got a teaching degree. And the first summer in between my college course, I, by luck, got this position

to go teach in Honduras for the summer. And I spent all summer, it was super, it was the hottest I've ever been in my life, which is saying a lot. I spent all summer in a classroom with fifth and sixth grade kids, like 60 of them, dogs were running through my classroom. And, you know, I not, we couldn't understand each other because I didn't know Spanish and they didn't know English, but something inside of me came alive. And I knew that this was the path that I was supposed to take. And so I finished up my degree, but I needed to do my student teaching. And I looked around at the options and it just didn't interest me to go sit in a public school somewhere outside of Philadelphia. So I thought, well, let me see where I can go. And I was the

first student in my college, my education program to get my student teaching degree overseas. And I got a job actually at an international school in Nairobi, Kenya. They offered me a position and I took it. So you get there and I assume you start teaching and walk us through what happens. So, I mean, I start teaching. I'm just a regular fourth grade teacher in this classroom. And I go out one Saturday night with some friends and I see this cute guy across the dance floor at the club that we're at. And I motion him over and he ignores me. And I think, okay, that's, no, we're not going to do that. So I motion him over again. And he comes over. I can't hear

anything. It's really loud. I think he says his name is Orek and he's from Sweden. I'd never met anybody from Sweden. So Orek seemed like a completely normal name. Turns out his name is Eric and I ended up marrying him a year and a half later. And we've been together for 15 years. But he was really how I got to Somalia. He's the equivalent of a human rights lawyer. And he was working in Somalia and based kind of in Nairobi, which is kind of common, especially at that time, you'd be based in a place like Nairobi that was a hub. And then you would travel in and out of these riskier. What is the, what's the distance? What's the, is it another right? Yeah. I mean, we would take these little like propeller planes that didn't have bathrooms. And I mean, it was,

there was nothing comfortable about it. So, I mean, it was like a five hour flight. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was hardcore. And so he ended up being stationed or like positioned so that he was working in Hargeisa Somaliland more. And after we got married, I just decided I didn't want to be away from him all the time. We didn't want to have a long distance marriage. So I quit my teaching job and moved up to Hargeisa to be with him. Again, teachers always find work. And so I started at the very beginning and we had a bunch of Ethiopian refugees living on our compound. So I started working with the kids and teaching them English. And then before you knew it, I had a dining room full of grownups who wanted to learn English. And it was super fun, but work got around that there was an actually like a trained teacher

in town. And so I started getting lots and lots of work. And then I started working for the Danish demining group, which was the mine action unit of the Danish refugee council. So these, the town is full of non-governmental organizations, like nonprofits, essentially, who are commissioned to go in and do humanitarian development work, you know, and they're from all over the world. I learned like the technical aspects of mine, risk education, conflict management, armed violence reduction, community safety, and then applied my educational and pedagogical skills to disseminating that information to these people groups who are largely like non-literate. It's very nomadic. Like they're

still out there like herding camels and goats. What was the craziest thing that you saw that just shocked you and blew your mind at this point? Oh, man. I mean, I've been all over the place in East Africa, essentially. I will never forget my first, it was my first trip to Africa. A friend and I were volunteering in South Sudan, and there was a little girl in the community, and we met her and her mother outside the hospital. And she had this, I mean, her stomach, she was like four. Her stomach looked like she was nine months pregnant. It was so distended and it was a benign tumor. They knew it was benign. It wasn't cancerous. And it would only cost $400 to get it removed. If you're right in front of the little girl, is there a way to say, here's $400? We did. We went through proper channels. That's why organizations exist, right? They have a

standard checks and balances system. They're working with different governments and countries. And so, yes, right? I guess I would say that I feel like I'm a bleeding heart in some ways. I have this deep level of empathy. And when you see something like that, yeah, you're like $400. Like that's nothing. Let me, yeah, fix the entire community. But then I think that there's a danger in that. Yeah. There's a lack of sustainability. And that's really what the development world is all about. There's a difference between humanitarian aid when you go in and you provide emergency services and then developmental assistance where you're going in, you're building up infrastructures and you're providing education and you're increasing access to education and and health care so that people can learn and

take over and take autonomy over their own their own countries their own it's like that fish thing yes it's like the fish thing what is the fish thing you always say that if you teach a man to fish oh if you feed a man a fish he only eats for a day if you teach him to fish he eats for life yeah yeah yeah okay so i mean i think that was like a fish there he has all different kinds of saying so i'm like okay so so so you're there talk to us about what happens in this incredible story. Before you do, when you went and you knew there was risk, did you have any idea? I feel like people hear things in life and you say, hey, this is... Maybe you disagree, but we never really believe

it's us. We're like, okay, yeah, it's risky. So when you're going there, you're like, okay, these are the risks. Are they telling you what the risks are? How are you thinking about it when you're first getting there? Or did you not think there was any risk, really? Oh, no. I think you live in these places and you understand that there is inherent risk and you sign off on that to a certain extent. When you work for an organization, there are, again, those protocols in the security and you have security advisors and you have people who are following

the pulse of the security in the areas that you're working in. And it's supposed to work. But some things just can't be predicted, right? So just jumping into that day, October 25th, 2011, a few days prior, I had called my colleague who was a Danish gentleman that was working in the location that I was supposed to travel to in the southern part of Somalia. I don't want to get too in the weeds because it gets complicated, but I lived in the north. That's where I was stationed. And then I was being asked to travel to the south, which was less safe, but we did have programs running there. I had canceled the training twice before because I didn't feel good about it. I had this

gut feeling that I just didn't want to go. So I call my colleague up. I say, hey, I don't feel good about this. I don't want to go. We cancel it twice. The third time I called, I tried to cancel it again because I still just don't feel good about it. And he says, you know. Why did you not feel good? Was there reports of activity going on? Yeah. There had been, for example, a bus full of women and children, essentially Somali women and children that had been blown up. There was a lot of like clan conflict. So we weren't the targets. That's always right. As expats, as aid workers, we weren't the targets. But there was always a possibility that you could get caught in the crossfire, you know, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And I don't know. I'm a very sensitive person and I just didn't want to go. And so I call him up. I say, I'll pay to fly your entire staff up here. Let's do the training up here. He says, no, part of our job is to be in solidarity with our staff. You're supposed to come down here. This

is your job. Essentially, if you don't get down here and do your job, I'm going to report you to our supervisor. And it wasn't said, but the implication was like, if you don't want to do your job, we'll find somebody who can. And I mean, that's a very real scenario. And I know it's not everybody's dream job, but for me, it was like I was I loved it. I love my work. I loved the people that I was working with. I felt like I was making an impact. And I think that particularly for women across the board in work environments, oftentimes we do feel a little bit cornered, right? We do feel a little bit threatened and worried that we're going to lose our job for this reason or that reason. So that extends all the way to these field positions in Somalia.

And so to your point, I was thinking like, I'm a school teacher from Ohio. What's the worst that can happen? You know, like bad things don't happen to girls like me, which is such a, such a naive privileged perspective to have. I get on a UN plane, fly South, the training's three days. And the first two days are great because we don't have to leave the guest house. The office and the guest house are attached. The second night, I didn't sleep all night long because I knew we were going to have to travel to the southern part of the city. And what I was worried about was actually being in transit, because if something's going to happen, it's probably going to happen when you're moving right not when you're like in the place yeah i mean it

could be but it's guarded you know we have armed guards everywhere and so i just felt like we were more vulnerable and for someone i'm ignorant about this what do you you have armed guards because why if you didn't have armed guards what would happen which is a deterrent right i mean they're in a war zone essentially yeah i mean i think just for general protection you know like would you ever go down there without armed guards or no no no you weren't allowed even in even in the northern part i always traveled with an armed guard we had armed guards living on our compound i was never allowed to like walk around town by myself i I always had someone with an AK-47 following me. It was kind of like being famous, but not. No one really cares that you're there, but you've always got to have an armed guard with

you. So I think in a way you get really desensitized because you're just used to traveling this way and it's your life. Like I had been there for two and a half years at this point. Well, it's also kind of a, maybe a sense of safety. You're like, oh, there's somebody with an AKB. A hundred percent. It's a false sense of security. And here's why. Because what I was worried about was, yeah, traveling from that guest house to the other, the field office.

And that night I hadn't, the night before I hadn't slept all night because I kept having these horrible nightmares. And I'm not a prolific dreamer. So I'm not one of those people that has these dreams. And I'm like, oh my God, this happened and that's just not me. So it was very odd. And the dream was very specific. And I kid you not, I had dreams that I was being kidnapped by pirates. They had scaled the walls of the compound and they were trying to get into my room. And I woke up in the morning and I was just sweating, like exhausted and sweating. And I can remember very clearly getting up out of my bed and walking

to my bathroom and looking at myself in the mirror and saying out loud to myself, Jess, do you want to do this? And I knew the answer was no. And therein, in that moment, when I was standing there looking at myself in the mirror, I made the most important decision I have ever, I think probably ever made in my life. And I made the decision to abandon myself. And I walked away from myself and I walked away from what I knew to be true because my intuition was like throwing up red flares and screaming at me to listen, giving me that subconscious knowing and that truth. And I was still so afraid of what people would think about me or that I would lose my job. I let logic and the practical side, right, that we all do this. We all find ourselves

in these positions at some point. I let that win. And so I remember putting on my headscarf and walking out of my room. And that would be the last time I saw that girl. Because six hours later in this part of Somalia, and then I'm leaving the next morning on a UN flight, and I'm heading back north to reunite with my husband. And it's around three o'clock in the afternoon, and we're waiting for the local security advisor. He's a man named Abdi Rezak to get our convoy of vehicles. Again, armed guards in the front, armed guards in the third vehicle. Paul, my colleague and I are in the middle. We have a driver. How many of you are there? We're two expats. Okay. Right. The rest are like Somali, their local staff that I had just trained and lots of guards. We've got drivers, our local security advisor for that particular office. His name is Abdi Rezak. And he kept like getting on the phone and saying, OK, we're ready. And then stop, stop.

No, we're not ready. Over and over. And I thought, this is a little weird, right? How many, when you say a lot of guards, how many is this? Is this like 5, 10, 20? Oh, I don't know, to be honest. Maybe like eight. OK.

We definitely had some in our vehicle. And then there were several. Yeah, maybe like eight. I'm just trying to get an idea of the size. Yeah. And we're in these old school land cruisers, diesel, and it's dusty and it's hot. I'm thinking about getting home, getting my workout in, what I'm going to have for dinner, just regular. I think I sent an email to my husband and we finally get into the vehicles

and we pull through the gates and we're driving through the city. And I use that term loosely. I mean, that's like there are people milling around. The streets are very narrow. They're rutted. And it had rained actually a couple of days before, which was a little bit out of the ordinary because this is desert. And we're driving. And then all of a sudden, I hear kind of sense a vehicle come up on the right side of us and then they cut us off and they splash water and mud up all over the windows in the windshield and I can't see out the window and I'm thinking god what a jerk who drives like that then I start hearing like yelling like angry men and they're coming closer and it sounds like they've got the car surrounded and then I hear the

crack of the butt of an NK-47 on the car hood and I'm sitting in the back on the left and Abdi Rezak, the security advisor sitting on the right. And then his door is pulled open and there is a very angry man. His face is like all pockmarked and he's wearing a police uniform and he's got a brand new, like very shiny AK-47. He grabs Abdi Rezak out, slams him onto the ground, hits him in the head with his gun, and then he gets in and he points the gun at my head

and starts screaming at the driver to drive. What about the armed guards? They've disseminated at this point. What does disseminated mean? They've deserted us. So what's the point of having armed guards if they don't help you? Well, they got overrun.

No, they were in on it. Oh, they were in on it. they were in on it we were sold for a hundred thousand dollars to be at this point in this place in time so you were you and your colleague were the targets because you were okay we're worth money and so they were basically holding you to ransom you yes well they were taking us right and at this point i have like two thoughts that are on repeat in my head. Right. I'm just like, this is so bad. This is so bad. This is so bad. I have no frame of reference for how bad this is. Like nothing in my life has ever prepared me for this. Well, we go through trainings. Like we go through hostile environment awareness trainings and they even do these mock,

like kidnapping exercises. So that you're supposed to know what to do in the middle. Nothing can prepare you for this. No, this is like something you see in a movie and you think there's no way that actually happens in real life. Yeah. Wait, I have a question. What is the $100,000 for? Is it because you're from the United States? Is it because you're a woman? What is the is the the currency of the hundred thousand dollars so we didn't know this at the time but then we you know you're filling in piecing things together as you go along and then in the aftermath abnery's act that security advisor had basically orchestrated the entire situation that scenario for us to be in that place at that moment for

this takeover and they paid him a hundred thousand. That's the fear I heard. And they still smash his head with the gun? Yeah, they were play acting. And I remember feeling sorry for him in that moment. But now I know that he was the one who dropped us off there. It was essentially like, yeah, it was like a drop and we were being trafficked. But here's what I don't understand. Is it because you're a woman that they wanted you? Why is it $100,000? Like what's is it because like what is the reason that they... $100,000 was for them to do the drop.

Yeah, that's just for him. Just that was just... That's not the ransom demand. We haven't even gotten to the ransom demand. That was just for the security. Oh, because what they want to do is they want to have a ransom so they can get more money. So it's about the ransom.

No, they had to pay the security. I'm just trying to understand why do people get kidnapped because in a country like somalia the average life expectancy is 46 years people live on less than dollar a day a dollar a day we're talking it ranks zero on there's a scale of life quality of life scale of every country in the world, and they rank dead last. There are zero industries. There's no farming. There's no export, no import. There's no way to make money in a country like Somalia. It is very, very poor. So you have to get creative with how you're making money, and this is a way to get creative. Yeah. So piracy, and again, I'm not an expert on the business of piracy. I'm an expert on my experience. But what I understand, do you remember that movie, Captain Phillips? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that happened like a year before my ordeal. And essentially,

what happened to him was his ship, he had this Mars Calabama, like a big, huge container ship, right? Worth like millions and millions of dollars. Because of all the goods in it. Because of all the goods. Yes. So they were off the coast of Somalia, off the coast of the Horn of Africa in the Indian ocean. And that particular area of water had become overfished by other commercial fishing areas. And I think essentially Somali fishermen were like, hey, this is our water. This is our livelihood. You're overfishing it and you're taking away basically the only industry we have. And so they started taking over these ships and holding them hostage. And then they'd ask for $45 million. The ransom demand would come down to a million. I mean, that's a lot of money, right? So this started becoming a very heavily

cobwebbed kind of network industry, kidnapping and ransom. If all of a sudden you're making a dollar a day and then all of a sudden you get a million dollar check, that feeds you for your life. If you listened to the episode earlier this week with Scarlett Johansson, you know that I rub a lot of colostrum on my face. Here are the episode if you want the context there. I also take colostrum every single morning. And my favorite source of colostrum right now is from a company that I've recently fallen

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who are the financiers. It's a whole crime ring. It's heavily, it's very strategic. They're very, very smart. So when Captain Phillips, his ship was taken over, they were held, I think for four days. One of the SEAL teams came in. I'm not sure if it was SEAL team six and rescued them. And they sniped some people, right? They did. And so that caused them to stop hanging out in the water so much and move more onto land and start taking humanitarian aid workers and expats, like tourists and stuff. Because we came in and started taking them out on the water. Yes. So they moved to land. Okay. So I want you to take our audience on this journey.

Okay. I'm in the Land Cruiser. So I'm thinking like nothing has prepared me for this. This is so bad. And then the other thing I'm thinking is just like, even if they stopped right now and kicked me out and let me walk back to town, my life has fundamentally changed. Nothing about my life will ever be the same again. And so we drive for hours. We stop. It's like they change personnel. A new shift of men get in. They're wearing belts of ammunition. They've got really big guns. Some of them are like big, huge machine guns that don't even fit in the car. So they're hanging out the windows. We drive some more. They stop. They make us get in other vehicles. This goes on all night long. At one point, I remember hearing a high-pitched voice behind me. And I think that

it's very odd because it sounds like there's a woman talking behind me and that would be very strange just in general, but especially in Somali culture, they're very, very separate. And I turn around because I'm so curious. It's a nine-year-old little boy and he's wearing chains of ammo and he's got a machine gun and I later get to know him a little bit.

His name is Abdullahi. He was nine years old. He was learning the family trade of kidnapping and ransom, and he had already killed three people. So like a child soldier, right? Essentially. We finally drive into, you know, just like, it's like the great unknown. It's just vast desert. We're driving down camel tracks and stop for the final time were ordered out of the vehicle. And Paul is in the front seat. And I don't know other than I think it's just shock, right? Like that comes over me. And I remember the man with the machine gun, he's got his head wrapped up in like a scarf. So it looks like a turban. And at this point, I'm not really sure who has us like

what they want, right? Is this an ideological thing? Is this an Islamic terrorist group? If that's the case, then I'm dead. Or do they just want money? And I remember him ordering me to walk out into the desert. And I'm like, nope, no, I'm not doing that. And we go back and forth and he's screaming in my face to walk, gun to my head. And I'm like, nope, because I have no idea what's waiting for me out there, but I can tell you it's not going to be good. In my mind, I think I'm probably going to be gang raped or something. And finally, Paul comes around and he takes my hand and he says, Jessica, we have to walk.

I know he's right. And so we do, we just start walking and we're like tripping over these bushes, like thorn bushes and rocks and picking ourselves back up. And it's just so dark, but I can hear we're being surrounded and it feels like more of them are coming out of the shadows. And, you know, I'm like saying goodbye to my husband. I'm saying goodbye to my dad. My mom had just died the year before. And so I'm just like in my heart, like calling out to her, like, help me be strong. Please help me be dignified. Like something in my head, just like, I don't want to beg. Right. You know, and I think that all of us maybe don't spend a lot of time thinking about what the end of our lives are going to look like, but I never had ever thought it would end like this. And, you know, the whole time I'm like, I'm 30, 31 at this point. And I'm thinking like,

I didn't even have a chance to become a mom. You know, I put all that off for work and we just walk and we walk and we walk. And finally we're ordered to stop and get down onto our knees. And I think, okay, this is it. What is this going to be like? This is it. This is the end of my life here on earth. And then I hear one word, one of them, it's so quiet, like it's just so still. One word, sleep. One of them says, and I'm like shaking my head like, what did I just hear? And he says, go to sleep and they just want us to lay down in the dirt and go to sleep and I'm like it's incredible how your body knows how to protect you and it just takes over and I collapse into the dirt into the ground and I pass out like I think I sleep for a couple of hours and I wake up as it's starting to get light

and kind of look around and evaluate. And I always say, you know, it was like waking up in hell. We're just outside. This would, you know, end up, we thought maybe this would last for like a week, maybe two weeks. We're humanitarian aid workers. We're here to help. Like, you you know the communities

are going to put pressure on these guys it's just the two of you it's just the two of us and paul's quite a bit older than me he had just turned 60 at that point i'm like 31 yeah that would start my 93 days of the most extreme camping experience, I guess you could say, but we were kept outside. We were never taken to a house. We were never given like shelter or a tent or a tarp, sleeping bag, nothing. At one point, a couple of weeks in, we were finally given a blanket. And does anyone come along the way from, you know, from that group and give you context of what's happening or why you're there or what they're doing? Or like, do you have any kind of conversation about, you know, what the hell you're doing there? It would take about a week for us to finally get some information. No one

really spoke English and we kept being told we were waiting for a communicator. That was the word they used. And Paul and I were like, oh oh they must mean the negotiator and no they really meant a communicator this creepy guy his name is jabril he had come up from mogadishu and he spoke pretty good english he said he had an ngo i don't know and he started doing translations and he was a pirate or just a guy they brought he said that he was a guy that they brought in. He wasn't. His part. He wasn't. But he then tells us, yeah, you're here for a ransom. And the ransom demand is $45 million. Does that make you feel better in a way, knowing that you're there for a ransom? Yes. Yes.

Initially, yes. I know it's a strange question, but. No, it is. Because you're like, okay, money, that's better than an ideological ISIS or something, right? Not to be morbid, but you would be worthless if you weren't living, right? Well, they would sell your body back, but essentially I'm worth more alive than dead. Sure, sure. Yeah.

Okay. During this first week and the following weeks, what are your days like? Are you just kind of waking up and sitting tight in a cell? Are you just kind of out in the open? No, she's camping. No, I know. But so what's the supervision? What are you doing this whole time? You're outside, right? Yeah, we're outside. I mean, trying not to lose my mind.

They feed you? A little bit. I mean, what it ended up developing into, we got a routine down. We traveled. We moved around 50 or 60 times. There was always this feeling that we were running from something, right? So I would sit for 12 hours underneath a tree or lying beneath a bush if the bush wasn't high enough to sit under. I had to sit undercover during the day. It's sunny. It's Africa. So trying to get some shade. And then we would sleep out in the open on a mat at night. The days once things kind of settled into a routine of nothingness, of just this blankness, it became more of a mental battle of like trying not to just go crazy, not lose my mind.

I mean, I was not one of those hostages where they give you books to read and a notepad and pen to you know write letters or your reflections i had nothing you know at what point or maybe you didn't feel like this did you feel like you needed sort of a strategy and what i mean by that like like my brain, and maybe this is, I'm not in your circumstances, but like maybe I'm trying to befriend someone or get to know someone. What was your sort of strategy if you had one? I had a couple of strategies. Yes, absolutely. There were shifts of pirates that would come in and they call themselves pirates.

I don't think they were fishermen, but they didn't have another word for it. They were just gangsters and bad people, but we call themselves pirates. I don't think they were fishermen, but they didn't have another word for it. They were just gangsters and bad people, but we call them pirates. And they would come in these shifts, like these five day shifts. And so there were a couple that I knew that I needed to be really careful around and stay as far away from as possible if I could. There were a few, like we gave them nicknames, Paul and I, so that we could talk about them without them knowing about it. So there was a man there who was a driver. His name was Dyer.

We called him Helper. He made bad decisions, but he was not a bad person. And he tried to help us as much as he could. I think he tried to protect me as much as he could. He was very religious and prayed five times a day. He's a Muslim country, right? I think there was some respect for him amongst the other pirates as well. And so he slept next to me the entire time that he was there. And I think that that had a lot to do with why I wasn't sexually assaulted. And so I'm very grateful for that. So yeah, it was a lot about

sitting there and studying. I've always had pretty good observation skills but man they're like killer now you know like because i'm just honing them because my life is dependent on it right so i felt like i learned even more how to happen to my sensitive nature and my intuition even though though I had told her to, we can curse on here. Yeah. Yeah. Like fuck off, you know, on October 25th, I had a really kind of like a moment of epiphany. I had several actually. And a lot of that had to do with just surrendering to things that were natural in me. I, and not too long ago, I met someone, I live in Washington, DC, so I meet people all the time that are like government or military and they had something tangentially to do with my situation. And someone told me not too long ago that they actually use

my kidnapping, my captivity as a lesson in one of the classes that they teach in college around building rapport. And I was like, okay, can you tell me more about that? And she said that they could hear, like at times, and we can get to the military component in a minute, but there were ways that they could hear some of the conversations that were happening and they could hear how I befriended and how I connected with several of my kidnappers. And they actually use it as a model for how to build connection and rapport with people. And she said to me, you saved your own life and Paul's at least five times. Like give us an example where they think that you saved you and Paul's at least five times. Give us an example where they think that you saved you and Paul's life. I mean, I don't know the particulars on their end, but I can think of

some times where things started to escalate and they were really angry at us because negotiations weren't moving in the right direction. That was always what... And if our people weren't offering enough money to counter their demand, then we got the brunt of it, right? So they'd come over to us. They'd be raging and screaming at us and threatening us with their guns. And sometimes Paul would scream back. And I would just come into myself. I wouldn't make eye contact.

I would look down. I would say, I would try to relate to them. I am sorry. I know how frustrating this must be. This is as frustrating for you as it is for us. I know you don't want to be here either. Like just trying to appeal to them on a human level. Right. I mean, it's the same as any of the stories that you're going to hear of, like when somebody is assaulted or or anything like trying to make yourself and connect as two human beings instead of someone who's the victim in the captor.

Right? Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense. At any point, I mean, I can't believe that you're the only woman out there and you weren't sexually abused. You're so lucky for that. I mean, so lucky. I don't know that I would have been able to recover the way I have if that had not been

the case. I mean, that gives me chills for you. Thank God. Yeah. Besides verbal abuse, was there other kinds of abuse? Are they hitting you? Are they pushing you with the gun? Did you get hurt?

I mean, not irreparably, but sure. Absolutely. Force was used a lot. I mean, I have had a gun held to my head more times than I can remember or count. I've been threatened that I will be sold to al-Shabaab, which is an Islamic terrorist group. I mean, there was a lot of just emotional, verbal abuse as well as the physical abuse. Looking back now that you're here, do you see things that you didn't see in the moment where they were brainwashing you? I don't think so. I don't think it was that

kind of situation where I had to worry about Stockholm syndrome or anything like that. You were literally just an asset to them. I'm a commodity. I'm a dollar sign. That's it. It's not personal. But none of the men try to creep up on you and be creepy. Yes, they did. Yes, they did in the middle of the night. But you had help right next to you. I did. And I was able somehow, I mean, I don't know where you stand on your spiritual beliefs and things, but I mean, every single protection out there had to do with the fact that my mom was protecting me. It was just miracle after miracle. I can't explain it other than I am just so lucky.

I mean, I was woken up in the middle of the night because someone was trying to climb on top of me, but nothing happened. What did you say? Get the fuck off me. I didn't. I just pretended like I was still asleep. I started kicking and moving and something came along where they were pulled away. You know what?

I think when you tell me you're camping outside, what about the animals? Is there freaky animals too? I mean, you've got a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot going on there. Lots of different things. That's the least of your worries at this point. Well, you know, actually I did kill a fair amount of scorpions with my Birkenstocks. I will say that Somalia is not, it's not like Kenya, even though they're, you know, next door to each other. So maybe you have to worry about some hyenas or something. We killed a couple of snakes, but it wasn't a huge deal. When you look back on the experience, what's the most memorable day, good or bad?

I remember when you were talking about strategies, I realized at some point, maybe 40 or 50 days in, that we were in this for the long haul like this was not going to end as soon as you don't know it's 40 to 50 days because you don't have a calendar well I can count the days I don't know what day on the calendar it is but I am you can be certain I'm counting what day I'm on you're counting what day I'm counting what day I'm on to think about like to put in perspective everything you've done this year since new years is not is not even equaling up to the time that you were there. I mean, just think about that for people listening. It's a long, long time.

So 50 days in, you start to realize you're in it for the long haul. What does that look like in your brain? Is it an epiphany? It's a surrender to the fact that I'm going to have to come up with some ideas here and get creative on how I'm going to make it through this because I'm determined to survive if I have anything to do with it. There are some extenuating circumstances that I can't control, but what I can control is my mind and I can control my mindset and I can control what you start thinking about? Because I think, you know, we talk about this on this show all the time on a completely different tangent, how we like as a populace now have this constant need to be distracted, be in a phone, be stimulated constantly when all of a sudden, you know, people talk about this. Oh, I'm going to take a break from social media. This is a break from everything. You have nothing. So where does your mind go? So I decided that I had actually a really interesting opportunity in front of me. I woke up one morning and I moved my mat from the middle of the field that I was sleeping in to under a tree where I would sit all day. And I was really into yoga at the time. So I was really trying to do some stretches and work the kinks out. I started thinking about the fact that after this particular training, I had been planning on taking some time off work and kind of going on a sabbatical. I had mentioned I'd lost my mom the year before and we'd lost her very suddenly and very tragically. And I was

like until this really deep in my grief around that. And I thought, you know, I'm going to go sit in an ashram or something somewhere and just grieve for three months and just like, I don't know, get it all out of me or something. And I was sitting there looking around and I thought, didn't the Buddha reach enlightenment while he was sitting under a tree? And didn't Jesus wander the desert for 40 days and 40 nights to wrestle with this decision? And all of the spiritual spiritual grades of all of the religions, there has been some sort of point where everything has been taken away, whether they've chosen that or it has happened to them, and they have had this opportunity for transformation. So maybe this was my ashram, right? Maybe this was my opportunity because you're exactly right.

I had nothing. What a beautiful way to look at it. So you realized you were sort of forced into silence, so why not take advantage of it? I don't like to waste time. I don't like to waste opportunities, right? I get it. I mean, that's a great way to look at the rest of your time. It's like you can deal with your grief in silence. Right. And see what's out there, what was behind and what's in front. And so I feel like, well, what I did is I got really organized with my mind and I decided that I was going to think about everything that had ever happened to me that I could remember, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it in those 31 years. And I was going to examine it and I was going to reflect on it. And I was going to try to ask for forgiveness and bury some grudges and

like do some healing. I don't know. I was just like, let me just think about these things. And so I started with the memory of like the first time, one of my first memories when my mom took me to the movie theater when I was four and we went to go see Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. And I got so detailed. You know when people talk about visualization and manifestation and everything, and they talk about being in it so that you can feel it. Well, I did that only in reverse. And I became this four-year-old child again. And I can remember the freckles on my mom's suntan skin. And I can remember how crooked her teeth were and the sound of her laugh. And over and over, I just went back and I went back and I went back. And I forgave people. I forgave her. And I asked her for forgiveness. I made some connections as to why I made some really

shitty decisions in my life, that present one not included yet and i it became this like this escape this place of freedom in my mind that i have never experienced again and i don't think i could have ever experienced if i hadn't been out there so there was a therapeutic element to what you went through yeah Yeah. It sounds like, well, it was transformational really. Yeah. How could it not? Well, there's no distraction.

There's no distraction. There's no time limit. I have complete autonomy. And so I think that that is one of my greatest truths and life lessons that I will carry with me. And, and that's the gospel that I preach is that you may not have a lot of options,

but you've always got choices. What's interesting about all this. with me and and that's the gospel that i preach is that you may not have a lot of options but you've always got choices what's interesting about all this i'm just listening to you talk here and all of the normal day-to-day distractions obligations responsibilities are gone in one instance no more bills there's no more bank accounts there's no more car there's no insurance there's no rent payments there's no maintaining the house it's like it's just all gone what does it look like two weeks leading up to you getting rescued did you start to feel that something was changing could you feel it energetically or was it completely a surprise that you got rescued yeah i i was feeling mentally pretty strong at that point and that would have been like 75 days in or something.

And are they just like normal? Like now it's like, okay, you're part of it. You're like in the camp. You're there. You're kind of like maybe not as intense in the beginning. Yeah, exactly. Like I'm not a worry that they're going to shoot me essentially anymore. Like I think we've found a rhythm, right?

I have a way to spend my days now. And we kind of know each other as much as you can. And it feels like we've settled into something because we're going to be here for a while. But what the problem was, you know, I'm living outside. I'm the only woman. There's no bathroom. Like no one's bringing me toilet paper or anything, you know. So I'm just squatting behind a bush all the time. I get a urinary tract infection. Oh, no. And it and I'm prone to those. So, you know, I know I know how this show goes. They won't bring me anything. You know, I'm like, look, here's the situation. I need a doctor. I need antibiotics. I know exactly what I need. I write it down on a

piece of paper that they give me. They take it to whoever they say no, because they don't need me comfortable. They just need me alive enough. You have said i'm gonna die if i don't get this because oh yeah if anyone's have ever had a uti this sounds like the worst place on the planet to have a uti it's terrible but what's even worse is that it moved into a kidney infection which is that's happened to me before and it's i fucking. I mean, people die. You die. Horrific. Yeah. So it's the worst pain.

Like you're hallucinating. You're throwing up. Like I can't walk anymore. They don't understand. You have to go to the hospital. You need. I need an IV. I need to be in a sanitary environment. And so January 16th would be my last of six proof of life calls.

I didn't know it was the last one, but the proof of life calls would be, they would drive us out into the middle of the desert, put us on a satellite phone, and we would talk to somebody who was supposed to be a representative for our family and the organization. And they were supposed to ask a series of security questions to make sure that we were still alive so that negotiations could keep moving forward because they're not going to negotiate if we're not still alive. And pause, pause, on that. So when you, when you're, what are you saying to these people when you get a phone? Are you only allowed to say certain things or you're like, yo, get me the fuck out of here? I mean, no, that is not what I'm saying. I'm answering their questions. They

want to know if I want to pass a message along to my, my husband. And it's usually like, which we haven't even talked about. I can only imagine what he's going through and what your dad's going through in your family. Like, I mean, it's their own hell their own hell yeah i'm sure i'm sure it's gotta be the biggest feeling of helplessness ever yeah yeah and i knew like intrinsically that my husband has worked in and with somalia for like 20 years and i knew that he he knew the very well. And he's also a bulldog. And so you don't mess with him. And so I knew that if anybody was fighting, no one could fight harder for me and for my safety than Eric could.

And I could feel that, that he was banging down every door and slamming his fists on tables. I knew that's what was happening. And it was. But I said that was probably the first time because usually what I would say is, I'm not fine, but I said that was probably the first time. Cause usually what I would say is I'm, I'm not fine, but I'm, I'm doing okay. You know, please tell my family. I love them. But that January 16th, that call, I said like, here are my symptoms. I have a, I have a kidney infection. I don't think I have much longer out here, probably a couple more weeks. If you don't get me out of here, I'm going to die and it's going to be on you.

And so that information was then taken to my husband, who then checked in with my doctor in Nairobi. And he said to Eric, you got to get her out of there. She's going to die. I give her three weeks tops. So he took that information to the FBI who was working the case. And Eric would say that it was like a movie, like Matt Espenshade, the FBI director who was heading up the mission. And one of his colleagues just looked at each other and then walked out of the room. And he said he knew in that moment something that had set the

wheels in motion. He didn't know what wheels they were, but he knew something was going to happen. Fast forward about nine days later, you know, I'm still just out there. Like at this point, I'm not really able to walk like much. You know, I'm like, it's so pitiful and tragic really to think about. I'm like crawling, you know, to the nearest bush. I'm so sick. I'm coming back. I'm wrapping myself up in my blanket. We would go to bed around six o'clock every night because the sun goes down. And I remember there were two stars that would come out at the same time every

night. And they were really, really bright, really vibrant. And I named one for my mom, and I would talk to her every night. And this night I was just like, you gotta do something. Like I need you to go and tell God that he needs to do something or else I'm not going to make it out of here. I am not going to survive. And so I go to sleep and I wake up a couple hours later with the need to be sick again. And so I say the word toilet, which is how I asked to be excused from my mat to go do what I needed to do. And there were nine guys on the ground that night, nine pirates. And so like a smaller group than was typical. And always every single like 92 nights before there was always one person who was keeping watch, who was keeping guard, you know, making sure we didn't escape or whatever, but everybody was passed out, like hardcore passed

out. I'm standing there like toilet, like, you know, screaming it and no one will wake up. And I think, okay, well, you know, I need to go. So I have this small flashlight, like a little pen light that they had given me. So I start, I pick it up and I start moving it like, you know, around and I'm flashing it because I want them to know that if somebody does wake up, I haven't tried to escape. I'm here. I just am using the bush. And then I come back and I roll myself up into my blanket. Sleep, you know, was so important to me. It was the only way I really could. It was the only relief I got from the pain and from the situation trying to go back to sleep. And I can hear something, like you asked about animals, right? I can hear something in the grasses. It's like breaking

grass, like a large animal is coming toward us. And I'm thinking, I don't really have the energy to deal with this, whatever this is. But I get up and I'm like shaking my blanket around. Maybe it's bugs that are coming out. I don't know what's happening. And I'm also thinking maybe I'm just kind of like hallucinating and losing my mind at this point. But I can hear something. And then I lay back down and about 30 seconds goes by. And helper, he jumps up and he's holding up his firearm. And he's like whisper screaming to all the other guys to get up.

Wake up, wake up. And Somali. And then the night just erupts into automatic gunfire oh jesus it like just like boom i mean just like just like a movie right and i'm thinking i'm just really never gonna make it out of this thing alive am i just like one setback after another in my mind i'm thinking it's probably another group who's come in. They know we're here. They're going to re-kidnap us. Then we're going to have to start this whole process over again. And I don't have it in me. I can't do this. I'm hearing all of, I'm hearing,

I mean, helper, he's shot. He falls down on the ground next to me. All the other guys, they're just dropping to the ground. I mean, they're dying. And I'm trying to get as low to the ground and cover up with my blanket as I can. And then I feel somebody grab my ankles and my shoulders. And I'm trying to fight back. And I have my hands up in front of me to guard myself, try to protect myself. And then I hear the voice of a young American man. And he knows my name. Postpartum with Townes, I was good as far as like thickness and shedding because I was doing a lot of different things. But what I noticed is I would put my hair

back in like a slick bun and I would get those little baby hairs everywhere like popping up. So I needed like some kind of, I don't know, like a spray to help repair the hair damage. It looked like it was from maybe a straightener or a blow dryer or some heat. So I found this product. It's by Wella Professionals, and it's called Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue. What I do is I'll put my hair in a bun. I'll get a really good brush. I'm all about a good brush. And I'll pull my hair back into a ponytail and then I'll wrap it and put a claw clip in it. And then I'll put this ultimate repair miracle hair rescue on top of the sleeked back bun. And sometimes I'll even rub it on the

bun. But mainly you really want to get it on the top of your head. And what it does is it gives you really pretty shiny hair, but it also helps with the breakage. I noticed just like a smoother coat. It looks really healthy. And this should not surprise you because there's omega-9 in it. And every single thing is designed to create a protective barrier on the hair. This brand is vegan, cruelty-free, dermatology-tested, safe for colored hair, and formulated without artificial dyes, which we love.

This product by Wella's Professionals is where it's at. You can purchase Ultimate Repair Miracle Hair Rescue at Ulta now. You can also go to Wella.com, that's W-E-L-L-A.com to learn more. As you can imagine, I am very detailed about the way I wake up, but also the way I go to bed. And a lot of people have DM'd me and asked me what alarm clock I use in the morning. And I do not use my phone. In fact, my phone is usually outside my room. It's on airplane mode. I don't want to touch it or look at it. The last thing on the planet that I want is to be woken up by my alarm. So what I use is the Restore 2, and it's by this brand Hatch. And what it is is it's like a gradual sunrise alarm that wakes you up gently. It

doesn't spike your cortisol. There's nothing worse being woken up by a loud, like vintage alarm, and it just rips you out of bed. And immediately you're like, where's the saber-toothed tiger? No, this wakes you up gently. And then it has this other feature. And this is a feature that I use for my children too when they're in our room. It's this little feature that you turn on at night and it helps you break your late night scrolling habit. What it does is it sort of turns red like a sunset and it has like a meditation. So it guides you to sleep. So what I'll do in my room is I'll turn off my lights. I'll maybe turn on my salt rock lamp and I'll put on my Restore 2 and I'll set it to the sunset setting with a guided meditation. It is absolutely incredible. Make space for the rest of your life with Restore 2. This is one of my best sleep hacks. I can't

even tell you. Head to Hatch.co and get free expedited shipping on your new Restore 2 so you can start feeling well-rested ASAP. One of our producers, Carson, told us about Topgolf, and I'm obsessed. This is such a good date night or a place to go with your friends. Topgolf. It's golf. It's not golf. It's Topgolf. Let's get into it. Okay, so they have a bunch of stuff that makes them golf. Clubs, balls, tees, turf. They even have like a ball picker upper cart. They have a lot of things that make them not golf. Loud music, giant TVs, and handcrafted food and beverage menus. So you could like take all your friends and you could play. Even if you don't golf, it doesn't matter because everyone can play

Topgolf even if no one can swing a club. They also have food and beverage. So if you're more of a leisurely luncher or diner, it's truly the only place you can play a round and then order another or hit a slice and then grab a slice. I'm into this. It's comfortable. It's truly the only place you can play a round and then order another or hit a slice and then grab a slice. I'm into this. It's comfortable. It's heated. It's just like a really fun time. You know what I mean? I think this is super cute if you want to experience a vibe. Put down your phone and you can just play and have fun. You can eat, you can drink. And even it's so cool when you go, they have a bunch of arcade games. It's just a total vibe. So if you're looking for some fun and you want to do something different, then you have to

check out Topgolf. We're going to do a Dear Media event at Topgolf. So we're going to bring the team and we're going to eat, drink, and maybe play. Like I said, it's golf. It's not golf. It's Topgolf. Download the app, book a bay, and come play around. And he says, Jessica, it's okay. We're the American military. You're safe now and we're going to take you home. Oh my God. You must've been like, thank God. Bad motherfuckers, those guys. Well, all I can say is he pulls the blanket down away from my face and i can't see anything because it's really dark like this it has clouded over and i can see like sense that there are figures around me but they're all black right they're black masks and stuff all i can say

over and over again is you're american wait you're american wait i i i don't understand you're american like how how did, how did you find me? How did you know I was out here? And he hands me a bottle of water and some tablets, like some medicine. He says, we've been watching you for a really long time, and we know how sick you've been. And yeah, you're going to go home. What do you mean they've been watching you for a long time? How long do they have to watch you for?

Well, I mean. What do you mean they've been watching you? It's a very technical question to answer but essentially like a military intervention is not anybody's first choice there it's very very risky right there's could be loss of life there could you could lose the hostage there could be loss of life on the military side and i believe that they had tried at least three or four times but something had happened and it wouldn't have been able to be executed. I mean, they got to get there first and get in position. You know what's so interesting and eerie is you said that this was one night where everyone was asleep.

And you mentioned the other nights how people, someone would always be awake, but you mentioned, so the military must have known, however they knew, that everyone was like knocked out. You can say what you want about the military but when these guys go and they do i mean like they take care of shit right like we don't even know the half of it i had no idea that this was even a possibility it's not like i was sitting there thinking oh that i'm an american and the military is going to come i didn't know that they did stuff like that i don't know maybe everybody else did but i didn't again it's something you see in a movie you do you don't think it's actually like a lowly aid worker from ohio no one knows i'm out here no one cares with these stories on movies though you always see the person like the you see the military coming and

they help you but my question is what happens in the next three hours are you transported somewhere do you see the people that had been capturing you where Where did they go? Like, what is the... Do helicopters fly in? Or do you got to go and like get in a car and like get to the coast? Like, how do you even get out of the country? Because I'm sure this is obviously not a... What does it look like? A warranted expedition here.

Well, so one of them asks me if I can find my shoes because we've got to get out of this proximity to this somewhere safe. I can't find my shoes. Like, I mean, I can't. Like, I don't even know my name at this point. Yeah, when I say not warranted, too, I want to clarify. The Somali government did not greenlight this, or did they? I don't think I know the answer to that question.

Okay, it's probably above my pay grade. People think I know a lot more around that than I do, and I've signed lots of papers that say I won't say anything. Sure, sure. So I can't find my shoes, so he explains, okay, well, here's what I'm going to do. And I signed lots of papers that say, I won't say anything. So he, I can't find my shoes. So he explains, okay, well, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to pick you up. I'm going to put you over my shoulder and we're getting out of here. So that's what he does. He picks me up and throws me over his shoulder. And I do have a very distinct memory of my head, just like bobbing up

and down. And I'm just like, how can this be my life? So he's just running, just running, you know, and gets me to the place that's safe. My first question is, is Paul here? Is he okay? Did he make it out alive? He did. And he's sitting right there to my left and he leans over to me and he goes, Jessica, do you know who these guys are? And I'm like, I don't, I'm not sure I really care. Like we're getting out of here. That's all that matters. And he says, this is SEAL Team 6. Like, these are the guys that got Osama bin Laden. And I mean, I just can't wrap my brain around it. And so at one point, they're not sure that what's happening over there, like the premises

is safe. And so they have Paul and I lie down and about three or four of them actually lay down on top of us to protect us. And then the rest form a wall, like a shield. And we stay like that until the helicopters come in. There are these massive like helo, I don't know the military terms for the aircrafts. I should know by now, but I don't. It was important.

I had to walk myself there because it was kind of far. And, you know, my health is like deteriorating. But I do remember putting my Birkenstocks on and like it was like all the adrenaline right like I this is my last I don't know like just this last act of survival right to like just get they're helping me we finally get onto the helicopter I remember like throwing myself onto the floor on my stomach and scraping my way to the other side and pressing my back up against it. And it wasn't until we were probably like 10,000 feet up into the air that I was like, I think I might have survived. I think I might be able to live through this. I think I'm going home. I have no idea of what I'm about to ask. So I would love to know.

Why can't the United States just give the ransom money right away? Why do they have to go through 90 days of negotiation? Well, I imagine, I mean, that's pretty complicated, but I imagine it encourages more of that behavior then. Okay. That makes sense. Yeah. The US has a policy that they don't negotiate with terrorists or groups like this. I don't think there are any countries that would pay a ransom. So then why do the pirates even try to do it with the U.S. if they know the U.S. doesn't negotiate with terrorists? They're not negotiating with the government. They're negotiating with the organization that I work for. Got it. My organization had kidnapping and ransom insurance. Most organizations should.

If they don't, then they should be shut down. And why didn't the organization? They did. They gave the money. You don't just pay. Why? You have to negotiate. Why can't they just pay?

Because it's an insurance company. So it's like it could take 90 days. It could take three years. Do you think if you had not been rescued, what do you think would have happened? I would have died. Because of the kidney infection or because of the circumstances? I think the kidney infection would have gotten me first. But it happened as a result of the circumstances.

I am sitting here having this conversation with you today because the U.S. government did put lives at risk and did go out there to save just this one and Paul. But he was an aside, right? Because he's not an American citizen. I think that that is an important part of my message. I'm not promoting going out and being reckless and putting yourself in unsafe situations out all over the world. But what I am here to also say is that we don't have, we as Americans, I don't think largely have an understanding of what it means to belong to a country who will go at just unlimited capacity at what they will go to in order to bring their citizens home. And I remember after that helicopter ride, we were taken to an airfield in, in Gaukayo in Somalia and put on a plane.

And then we were taken to Djibouti to a military base where we spent 24 hours. We got medical care. And I remember there was a young Marine in my hospital room and he was, you could tell he was like Mr. mr personality like he had been sent in there to like chat me up a little bit and i haven't talked really to anybody in like three months so i was having a really hard time with social skills wondering if maybe i'd lost them entirely he says to me president obama is the person who called your dad personally to let him know that you survived and that you're coming home i I'm like, your information can't be right. Like that, that's not straight.

And I was saying, you know, relating to him, like Paul throughout the captivity would be like, send in the Marines, you know, and I would get really mad at him and be like, Paul, you're from Denmark. There are like 3 million people in your country. Like I'm from America. We have like 3 million people in your country. I'm from America. We have like 400 million people. No one knows we're here.

No one cares. I was like Debbie Downer all the way. And I was telling him about that. And he said, that's just so not true. And he held up his arm and he had a tattoo of missing in action and prisoners of war emblem on his forearm. And he said, this is for every American citizen. If we have it within our power to go out and rescue somebody, we don't leave any American citizen behind. Wow. When do you reunite with your husband? It would be about three or four days later.

We were then taken to a military base in Italy and opted in to participate in the Department of Defense's hostage reintegration program. It was very regimented and had been very heavily researched. And I felt like, you know, they got me out of here. I feel like they're the experts. I knew I had made a commitment while I was out there to prioritize my mental health and my healing from the get-go. So that was part of that for me. And so I got a five-minute conversation with him on the phone when we were in Djibouti. And then a couple of days later, we had an hour together in the hospital.

And then the next day, we were able to go to lunch. But it was supervised. And then the next day, we were able to go to lunch, but it was supervised and everything was in stages. And I didn't understand at the beginning, but I understood during and then post why they do this because it's very, very overwhelming. Your loved one has had all this time to think about things and all the things they want to say, and you've just been trying to stay alive. And so those mindsets, maybe those emotional states don't match up. And so it can be

very overwhelming for the returning hostage. What else do they make you do? You said it's very routined. Yeah. Like a lot of interviews with the FBI, a lot of intense therapy. I had a psychiatrist that was assigned just to me and he was there to protect me. So if the interviews were getting to be too much, then he would stop them and we would go take a walk. It was just a lot of like making sure for a long time, like days they were, it was cold and snowing, but I kept insisting on walking around with no shoes and no socks because I'd been doing that for so long and it felt very strange to have socks and shoes on. And so, you know, it was up to them to notice and be like, you know what, why don't we get you some flip-flops? You know, because what I had on my body was taken into evidence. So I had no clothes or shoes or

anything left. So it was stuff like that, you know, bringing me toiletries for the first time and stuff. On a day-to-day basis now, what's different? What are the little tiny things that some people who are listening would not think about? I mean, everything is kind of different. And I do. It's weird how like memories will just come out of the woodwork. I had a moment this morning, actually, and it's, I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened. I had just showered, and I was getting ready to come over here, and I was

laying on the bed in my hotel, and I had this overwhelming gratitude. And all I could say out loud to the universe and to SEAL Team 6 and to myself was, thank you for saving me. You know, like, God saved me. You know, the universe saved me and then SEAL Team 6 saved me. And then I had to go back and save myself to a large extent. And so I think that, you know, there are the very practical things like I really do appreciate a shower, a good shower, being able to take a bath. That still doesn't get old. Or knowing where my food has been a real big thing for me.

And I'm working through that with my therapist. Still, when you've been systematically starved for a long time, it's hard to regulate all of that when you come back out. And it's been years, but it's still difficult. I'm thankful to have a food source. Anytime I get sick and I drive myself to urgent care, I am so grateful that I have access on so many levels. There's so many people in America who don't even have access to regular health care. So I think for a while I walked around in just shock. And then there was a lot of grief around having lost my job and my livelihood and having to rebuild a life that, you know, when you have you've suffered trauma, like it changes things fundamentally cellularly on in your body and in your mind. But then the physical surroundings change too.

We had to leave Africa because it was too hard for me. I got pregnant a month after the rescue with my son, which also that I am just really, really grateful and not like I'll take the table scraps and all this, I'm lucky for whatever I get. It's just like this really intentional gratitude to be in this body and to be in this chair right now talking to you. It just feels so real. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Especially with what you've been through. So Paul is okay too? I believe so. I mean, he was rescued successfully. We don't have a relationship. No relationship. Is that intentional? Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of negligence on his part and my organization around why this happened in the first place. There was a kidnapping threat that was not disclosed to me.

Oh, wow. So I would say that that has been my forgiveness journey, actually. Not really the pirates. I bet you, after all this happened, that you crave sitting in silence, I would think. Oh, my God. How did you know that? Once you start sitting in silence, you want more and more and more. Hint, hint, hint. I am very committed to silence. It's nice probably to sit in silence and just be able to, with everything you've been through, sort of go through your thoughts.

Well, we talk about, like I said earlier, all the time on the show, it's like maybe disconnecting and getting away and not being so hyper-connected. Obviously, I don't think everybody should even, you know, like the example that you, the thing you went through, like nobody should have to go through that. But just, you know, once in a while getting a little bit less of this, and I'm holding my phone for people listening, and a little bit less of just being so inundated with so much. Because I think, you know, as a species, we've gotten away from a lot of that. And it's hard to figure out who you are and connect with yourself. And to your point, even kind of go back and think about and contemplate what you really want out of life.

Well, and I think that these things happen so that we have the opportunity to meet ourselves in a way that we couldn't have ever met ourselves before. And so I think that can translate to anybody's darkest moment. You know what you're made out of, you know, yeah, what you want. And you can't do that to your point unless you spend a lot of time in silence. I had, it was, he was a veteran asked me once, it's the only time anybody's ever asked me, and he works very much in veterans affairs and PTSD. And he said, do you ever kind of want to go back to that place? Because you had reached a point of like such contentment and solitude within yourself. And I was like, yes, actually, yes. Because there is,

I mean, outside of the guns and all of that stuff, but for the most part, there's nothing competing for my attention. There are very few demands. All you have to do is survive. That's it. You don't have to make any decisions. Same thing happens to prisoners. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's very complex. It seems like it's a very complex situation. Yeah. People can't understand why sometimes, and listen, I've never experienced it either, but when people get out of prison, why they sometimes want to go back. Right. Because everything was, you didn't have to make any decisions, right? It's very overwhelming. And I don't think I was out there long enough for that to become my reality. But yeah, I am very intentional. What happened to the pirates?

So the nine that were on the ground that night died. That wiped out. That was it. Yeah. So that must bring you a little bit of comfort though, in a way. I don't think so. I think that things are not black and white. They get gray really fast. I don't feel like I've suffered Stockholm syndrome. I was not devoted to their cause, but I was there as an aid worker, right? So I was there to try to help build infrastructure and educate and all the things. And it makes me really sad when people don't have any other options other than crime to keep their children alive, right? And so in a way, I kind of get it.

You almost sound like you feel empathy for them. Yes. Well, because it's like, it's a very hard issue, which I know you have thought about way more than us. But to your point, if this all kind of originated because there's no resources, no way to make a living, then the fishing gets taken from and there's literally nothing to feed themselves or their family to your point like help or make like these guys it's not like they woke up in the one day and said i can't wait to do this when i'm older yeah i don't think that the majority some people are born evil sure but i don't

think these men did they they just didn't have any options and the little boy i don't know what happened to him. I'm glad that he wasn't there that night. I think that that would have been really hard for me to cope with. I'm glad too. Yeah. You wrote a book. You've also written another book that was a New York Times bestselling.

Tell us about both books. So Impossible Odds came out in 2013. I co-wrote that with my husband, Eric. It's called Impossible Odds, The Kidnapping of Jessica Buchanan and Her Dramatic Rescue by SEAL Team 6. And that's really an account. It's a memoir of that particular, that slice of our lives and our experience. And then the book that just came out is called Deserts to Mountaintops, Our Collective Journey to Reclaiming Our Voice. And it's an anthology. It is 22 chapters. It's 25 women's voices that I've collected. I'm the lead author. And it's really written around this theme of recognizing that we all

have a desert to mountaintop experience, and we probably will have many in our lifetimes. And that journey that we go through to get to what our mountaintop is. And for women, I think a lot of us feel like we have lived our lives with very little voice. And at some point in time, it was silenced. And so there are incredible stories in this anthology of strength and survival and inspiration and women who have reclaimed their voice. And the stories are as different as the women are. But I'm very proud of the work that I'm doing now and that they have shared their stories in such a beautiful way. And where can you find your book?

On your Instagram, all the things. Anywhere you buy books. Instagram? Instagram, Jessica C. Buchanan. I hang out there probably way too much. Have you gotten on TikTok? A little. I feel like your story would really resonate there. People love stories on that app. Yeah, that's true.

I'll explore that maybe a little bit later. Beautiful job. Thank you so much for coming on. Your story is so inspiring. Thank you for having me. Wild. Thank you, Jessica. I cannot wait to read your book.

Thank you. Thank you, Jessica. Thank you, guys. This episode was brought to you by The Skinny Confidential. Don't forget to go shop one of our only sales of the year. Use code Pink Bash for 20% off excluding kits and gift cards. Go to shopskinnyconfidential.com and use code Pink Bash. If you would like to win a copy of Jessica's book signed by her, all you have to do is tell us who you want to hear next on The Skinny Confidential Him and Her podcast on my latest post at Lauren Bostic, and make sure you've rated and reviewed the podcast on iTunes. With that, we'll see you next time.