The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Lauryn's Explant Surgery Ft. Dr. Robert Whitfield AKA "Breast Implant Illness Expert" & Everything You Want To Know About Implants & Explants

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

#572: Today we're sitting down with Dr. Robert Whitfield, board-certified plastic surgeon specializing in Explant Surgery and Breast Implant Illness. Known as the “Breast Implant Illness Expert,” due to his exceptional explant skills and holistic and scientific approach to care, Dr. Robert joins us today to talk about all things implants, implant illness, and implant removal. We also discuss Lauryn's recent explant procedure and why she decided this was the right choice for her. Dr. Robert gets into the details about what causes implant illness, why more and more people are deciding to get their breast implants removed, signs that you may have breast implant illness and he dives into the entire explant procedure and what to expect. He also dives into the root cause behind implant illness: chronic inflammation & gives insight into how chronic inflammation is affecting your everyday life, what the causes could be and more. Lastly he gets into who would be a good candidate for explant surgery, what people should know before going under the knife ( for implants AND explants), and why it's important to plan for years into the future whenever considering any type of implant surgery.   To connect with Dr. Robert Whitfield click HERE To connect with Lauryn Evarts click HERE To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE Subscribe to our YouTube channel HERE For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697) This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog It's never been easier to invest in your dog's health with fresh food. Get 50% off your first box & free shipping by going to thefarmersdog.com/skinny This episode is brought to you by MasterClass With MasterClass, you can learn from the world's best minds - anytime, anywhere and at your own pace. Get 35% off unlimited access to every class for Mother's Day at masterclass.com/SKINNY This episode is brought to you by Vroom You can buy a car from Vroom entirely online. So, next time you need to buy a car, just grab your phone, go to Vroom.com, and check out thousands of cars. This episode is brought to you by 21 Seeds 21Seeds Infused Tequila makes the most delicious and easy margaritas and cocktails so you can focus on the fun! Visit 21seeds.com to find 21Seeds near you & enjoy responsibly. This episode is brought to you by Vegamour With Vegamour, you're able to have visibly thicker, fuller, shinier, longer hair, all without the harsh ingredients. Vegamour's products are 100% cruelty free and not formulated with any harsh chemicals. Visit vegamour.com/skinny and use code SKINNY at checkout to get 20% off your first order. This episode is brought to you by HelloFresh With HelloFresh, you get farm-fresh, pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Visit hellofresh.com/skinny16 or use code SKINNY16 at checkout and get 16 free meals plus free shipping Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Confidential. Him and her. Aha! They should have never invited me to the meeting if they didn't want me to figure out the problem. I was invited a long time ago to be a vice chair on the committee for breast implant illness. And then I became the president-elect and I testified at the FDA hearings that we would try to figure out and apply research to the problem. And in my own personal experience, I've tried to answer the questions that either don't get answered or aren't answered thoroughly enough so that we provide color and context around it.

The reality is this happens from chronic inflammation and then what do we need to do to get them to the other side of it and what explanations need to be given for why it's happening. Now, it seems like in our country, we're built to not think outside the box anymore. I did something that I have been thinking about doing for the last year and a half.

I removed my implants. And this was not a decision that I took lightly. I really, really thought about it. I did my research and I just decided ultimately that it was the right decision for me. I personally just got over carrying all this extra weight. And I feel like looking back on me, the longer I had the implants, the wider they got. and they just started to make me feel matronly. That's the only way I can describe it, just like super top heavy. I didn't feel like myself. So what I did in the last year and a half is I set out on a journey to do a lot of testing and research on the doctor who I wanted to do this operation, to take my implants out. I ultimately picked Dr. Robert Whitfield, who we're interviewing today. He's a board-certified plastic surgeon, and he specializes

in explant surgery. And one of the things he does is he does tons and tons of tests. So he does stool, saliva, he does gut, he does blood, he does urine, all the tests, and he's really able to see the inflammation in the body. And my instinct knew that it was coming from my implants. There's also four pathways that he talks about, and he was able to check those pathways. And I'm not going to describe it very eloquently, but he was able to check those pathways to see where the inflammation was coming from. And we get into it in this episode. So now I'm on the other side of surgery and I just can't believe how much better I feel. I have way more energy. I'm bouncing off the walls to the point. It's like crazy. I can't believe my assistant was like, who is this? I have no more brain fog. I'm lighter.

I'm down eight pounds. And yes, some of that is from the implants, but a lot of that's water weight. I feel less inflamed. I look less inflamed. Even Michael and my friends are saying it. My thyroid levels have changed. And for the thyroid issue, I have to do a solo episode because it's a whole thing. My eyes are whiter and I have more natural oil in my face. I even noticed that my cheeks are rosier. And I think for me, I just had them for so long that my body was saying no. I think it was like feeling like a splinter in my body. My body just wanted them out. And now after the operation, I can tell that I just made the right decision. I feel relief. I can't even explain it.

It's like my body let out a sigh of relief. To give you a little background, I got implants at 18 years old. The day after my dad's birthday, right before 4th of July, I went in with my own money and paid for my implants right after high school graduation. I got 210, That's like the CCs and they were saline and I had a great experience. And then about five years ago, I had them replaced. It was time to get like a tune up because you have to replace them every 10 years, I think, which is crazy because I don't want to do that either for the rest of my life. So this was another thing. I was like, what's the plan here? So then five years ago, I had them replaced with silicone and I did 400 cc's. And I think that I just picked a size that was too big for me. And over time, after two kids, they just started to get bigger and bigger and wider and wider. And it wasn't the look or the

feel that I wanted. I do have to say, though, I had the best doctor for the second set of implants. He's amazing. He's aesthetically amazing. And he really has an eye, Dr. Barrett. I have nothing but nice things to say about him. So I had a great experience, but I just think my body was done with implants. And so fast forward to today,

I had the surgery. It was seamless with Dr. Rob. He is an expert in removing implants, which like I said, we'll get into in this episode. I do want to say though, if you have implants, this isn't to scare you. This is just having a conversation. And if you do have implants and you're thinking about getting them removed, I would encourage you to go do all the research. Don't just listen to this podcast and make a decision. And if you have implants and you love them and you have no problems, I mean, that's amazing. I have no judgment or opinion about people having implants. I had so much fun with them. I had them for so long and I get it. I am just sharing my life and sharing my

journey. And ultimately my taste has evolved and I just wanted a more natural look. In this episode, we'll talk about what I got done specifically. We'll go over all the details for you. And I just have to shout out Michaela Peterson. She's incredible. Her podcast is insane. It's such a good podcast. And she's the one that actually introduced me to Dr. Rob. So if you have not listened to her podcast, go check it out. And also, if you have a story of removing your implants, DM me. I would love to hear it. I love to hear you guys' stories.

Okay. Dr. Rob, he has the best team on the planet. He's amazing. He also has an incredible patient coordinator, Candice, who held my hand through this whole process. And she's actually up on the blog sharing her story. So if you want to go read that after this, please do. So on that note, let me introduce Dr. Rob. Dr. Rob has done over 1500 explants. So he knows all things implant, implant illness, implant removal, all the details. But he also understands the pre-care and the aftercare.

And that's really why I chose him. He's very focused on finding the root cause, what the chronic inflammation is coming from, and then also giving you the best aftercare. So I'm doing the hyperbaric oxygen chamber. I'm getting lymphatic massage from his specialist, Carol, who's amazing. I'm also taking minerals and detoxing heavy metals. So he really focuses on getting you healthy in general. In this episode, we're going to talk about explants, why they're growing in popularity, chronic inflammation symptoms, why people have implant

illness and some don't, lifestyle choices that are causing inflammation, what you should know before getting implants, genetics, nutrition, lifestyle choices, and everything that you need to know about explants. Oh, and in three months, I'll do a solo episode to let you know how I'm feeling. With that, let's welcome Dr. Whitfield to the show. This is the Skinny Confidential, him and her. Why are so many people getting explants? I think the breast implant itself, which has been around since the 60s basically, has been used for both cosmetic and reconstructive purposes. And in my line of work, which started basically taking care

of cancer patients, I used them a specific way in reconstruction cases. From a protocol standpoint, we were very careful, but really from your history standpoint, we're really careful. If you showed up and you had lupus or rheumatoid arthritis or another autoimmune disorder, I would not put an implant in you. I would find another way to take care of that problem. I think what I see now in cosmetic patients is many instances where they have pre-existing autoimmune disorders or alternatively, you know, like you asked me, like, why do I have so much inflammation? Like inflammation from our bodies reacts in a way that if you put a device in someone, their body immediately forms scar tissue around it. And that's the capsule, the scar capsule everybody talks about. Your body's always going to try to get that out of your system.

And then if you have other things from your environment, the water we drink, the air we breathe, the food we eat, the products we come in contact with in our skin and daily basis. In Austin, there's tons of mold. These things all add to basically your toxic burden. And that's what gives you the inflammation. So what you're saying essentially is when you put an implant in, if you're already having inflammation problems to begin with, or you already have underlying autoimmune, and then you put the implant in, your body is pushing it out like a splinter.

Or is it trying to wall it off from the rest of your body yeah it walls it off it won't reject it in the in the truest sense like in the cosmetic patient because the tissues are intact around but in a cancer patient who's had chemotherapy and radiation therapy you will have examples of extrusion where the device is literally coming out of them. So what seems to be happening is that people who got implants at 21 years old or 18 years old, like I did, 10 years, 15 years, 18 years, whatever down the line, they're explanting because it seems like it's exponentially getting worse. Is that correct? Right. So everybody has a certain pair of genes. You all have two little ones. You gave your genes to them. They're a blend of you. So everybody has these genetic

pathways that help us detox. Everybody's heard the term detox. So our vitamin D pathway and something that helps our B vitamins, which is the methylation pathway. And many people have heard of the MTHFR gene, as well as a pathway that manages our glutathione in our livers, and then an antioxidant pathway. And everybody's heard of vitamin C. Vitamin C is an antioxidant. Those four pathways are what help us detoxify. And you have a certain amount of enzymatic capability to do that.

And over time, like you said, as toxic burden rises, you exceed the level of your enzymatic ability to detox. And then if someone gets leaky gut or has problems with their digestive tract, that makes it worse. If there's another problem, that's going to make it worse. If you get exposed to mold or if you drink water that's bad, like I grew up in a place that had arsenic in the groundwater. And so that's another thing my body has to deal with. Eventually you can no longer deal with this and you're now a hamster in the wheel. Your body's working all the time to get rid of toxins, but it cannot actually do it. If I look back on my life, I remember when I first got them, I started to

feel more inflamed. Can you explain exactly like from a very kindergarten level of why I was experiencing that inflammation? Like what, like really get in there besides the four pathways, what was actually happening? So acutely after surgery, there's acute inflammation, or if you sprained your ankle and your ankle swelled up, that's acute inflammation. And your body has inflammatory cells. Inflammatory cells can be our B lymphocytes, our T lymphocytes, our monocytes, mast cells, people have heard of mast cells or endothelial cells. These all secrete a product, if you will, that stimulates inflammation.

And you want acute inflammation in certain instances, correct? Right. Because it's going to drive repair and healing. But when that acute process is over, if you still have the stimulus for inflammation, now you're going to develop chronic inflammation because your body is going to keep sending the inflammatory cells out to get rid of the problem. And so in the case of a breast implant, wherein I've done about 1,500 explants at this point, about 35% have biofilm. So that's biofilms produced by bacteria. So it's a contaminant. Biofilm around the implant when you take it out.

Right. So the biofilm is found by DNA testing, but the bacteria is called Cutium bacterium acnes. And this bacteria produces almost like a little slime layer to protect itself from your immune system. Even though your immune system can't get rid of it, it's still stimulated to react to it and respond to it. So once again, you create more and more inflammation in a constant manner. And so, you know, in that instance, when I operate on someone who's got that problem, they get better almost right after surgery. And is that because your immune system is fighting a losing battle, but it's going to keep fighting so it's ultimately weakening the rest of your system or creating a scenario

where since it's fighting that battle, it may not be able to fight others in the body as effectively? Is that right? So you'll see the whole system, it's geared to protect you. And when you take away that noidus or that stimulus for the inflammation, then you have people have these recoveries that are just like magical. Well, it's funny because I've had surgery before. And normally when you get out, you're sort of groggy. But with this one, it was different. After getting my implants out, I recovered from the anesthesia quicker. And when I was in the car, I was clear. And even when I got home, I noticed my whites and my eyes were really white. And you're right. I did see the inflammation drop right away. And other people are noticing it too.

Like it's not, it's some people that haven't seen me in a while and it's only been three weeks. What are you seeing longer down the road? Like what do I have to look forward to in the next three months or in the next year or even in the next five years?

I think the program we put together with Harp.Health was really designed to help everybody get to where you are now. So you've turned around really quickly, which is what we want for every person. But it's a combination of looking at their toxic burden through testing, food sensitivity testing for their GI tract, and how their microbiome in their GI tract works.

So what you eat affects basically your digestive tract and then what you produce or eliminate, right? So we detoxify and then we eliminate. We sweat, we poop, we pee. So people who are really genetically limited are not going to turn around like you did. My patient advocate, Candice Morley, she is severely limited from a genetic standpoint. So she would have never turned around like you did. But over time, you can. You can take supplements to lower your inflammation and augment your genetic pathways, either taking a glutathione, carnitine,

a vitamin C, liposomal B vitamins. We try to do these things to augment those pathways so that everybody can get to the point where you are already. Because some people will linger and they'll be still stuck in the process because even though I've removed the device, I haven't controlled all the other aspects of inflammation affecting them. And that's the problem.

Everybody asks me to define breast implant illness. All right. Breast implant illness is chronic inflammation. The breast implant is one component of that. Even though I do the surgery, it doesn't resolve a problem in every situation. Because there are so many people online and just in general that are talking about breast implant illness, what are some symptoms of it that you could list that could be from your implants?

I want everyone too that's listening. It doesn't mean it is from your implants. I'm saying it could be from your implants. I want everyone too that's listening, it doesn't mean it is from your implants. I'm saying it could be from your implants. Right. So when we look at systems, the things that give us symptoms are really related to inflammation in that system. So if we just start from top down, if you have a lot of problems with headache, and I'm not talking about like somebody who's always had migraines, I'm not saying you're getting headaches. You're getting light sensitivity. You're getting sound sensitivity. That's neural inflammation. And so neural inflammation can come from a number of sources.

But in Texas, you get exposed to mold a lot. Y'all moved here from California. A lot of mold in California too, especially on the coast. So I see this routinely. And so most people don't even know this is happening to them. They're just like, this is just daily life. I have a headache.

I don't, I don't feel good. For me, it was every single time Michael turned on the lights. Yeah. Every time I came into her presence. And then even like, this is how bad it got.

My three-year-old daughter would say, Papa, don't turn on the lights. Our eyes hurt. So she took on the symptom that I was having. No, no, no, no. That is a learned behavior from the mother. That's what I'm saying. She didn't take on the lights. Our eyes hurt. So she took on the symptom that I was having. No, no, no. That is a learned behavior from the mother. That's what I'm saying.

She didn't take on the symptom. No, no, no. No, no, no. I'm saying it's a learned behavior that she learned from me. I'm not saying her eyes actually hurt. It's protecting her mom. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then anytime a sound was too loud or it would bother me. So the tell is always when you get in the car no matter how low the radio is that person responds to the radio is being too loud oh yeah that's her yeah every time so that's what i ask people because if you ask them do you have sound sensitivity they're like no i'm like every time you get in the car is the radio too loud not your car somebody else's they're like oh yeah always turn down reach reach for the knob, turn it down. So that's that system. If you think of the eyes and the ears

and the nose and the throat, people will constantly have problems like a chronic sinusitis. They'll have a scratchy throat or swelling in their throat or almost like they're gagging. And these are all signs of just inflammation in that system. And it goes, you know, completely, as you would expect down the road,

like why do people all of a sudden who never had a cardiac issue or anything have heart palpitations or they have shortness of breath or tightness in their chest? If someone has really got chronic inflammation, it affects every single system, all the way down to your GI tract, giving you abdominal pain, bloating, swelling, fluid retention. Joint pain is very common because now it's chronic. The inflammatory process is chronic and the fluid accumulation is chronic.

And so it affects every single system and then the last and probably one of the most disconcerting for everybody is these really bizarre rashes that happen on their skin and they can't explain why that's happening we've had women show up just full body head to toe rashes i had a rash on my legs anyone who listens to this podcast can go back like 500 podcasts ago and i did everything to eliminate things that would bother the rash. I changed my detergent. I changed all our cleaning supplies. I thought it was maybe from a certain blanket I was using. I did everything. And after I got my implants out, the rash went away. So when you explant, you've done so many explants, you've done 1500 plus, you said, what are some things that you're seeing that are crazy? Well, let's just think conventionally of

medicine. Conventional medicine takes a symptom and tries to provide a therapeutic protocol. That may be a rehab or whatever for an injury. But in general, when it's inflammation, they're prescribing a medication. And the medication is going to suppress your immune response. So the thing is, you had basically hypothyroidism from inflammation. So the inflammatory cells and the cytokines turn off your ability for your hormones to work properly. So your sex hormones don't work properly. Your thyroid hormone doesn't work properly. There are other reasons for this, of course, but in your instance, we had to have an early discussion about you becoming really sensitive now to thyroid

medication because you actually don't have hypothyroidism. Which just so everyone knows, after I got surgery a week later, I was texting Dr. Rob and Candice saying, hey, why am I getting dizzy? Why do I have to, I had to sit down in the middle of a walk multiple times because I thought I was going to faint. And I was having like, almost like it felt like a lot of anxiety, heart flutter, like weirdness. And I was going to faint. And I was having almost like it felt like a lot of anxiety, heart flutter, weirdness. And I actually had to cut my thyroid dose in half. This is a week after getting my implants out. I, by the way, when I got them out, was not expecting to get off thyroid medicine. That wasn't what I was expecting. But it makes sense. If you clear out the issue in your body that's causing the inflammation,

then it would reason would be that, or it would be reasonable to think that all these other issues that are being caused by chronic inflammation would start to resolve themselves because the body's no longer as inflamed. Right. So the thing with thyroid is that to be extremely careful about is, you know, the medication that the providers are trying to get patients to help with the problems, those medications are effective in providing increase in thyroid, increase in, you know, if it's a sex hormone, increase in estrogen or progesterone or testosterone. When someone sits in front of me and says, you know, Dr. Whitfield, they put

testosterone or estrogen or whatever in me and it didn't work. I'm like, really? So all the athletes risk their salaries, their medals, their legacies, because performance enhancing drugs like testosterone don't work? Like, no. Those things don't work if there's a baseline of inflammation that's too high for you to get the bioavailable product from it. So you were taking,

and I've had people take lots of thyroid medication to feel better, right? To have more energy, but that's not really the problem. The problem is the amount of inflammation. And as you lower it, depending on what the source is, you will get more bioavailable drug in you. And that's what you experienced acutely. I've had people get hospitalized from thyroid storm, which is basically developing hyperthyroidism from their medication after explant. Why do some people, in your opinion, get breast implant illness while others don't? Because obviously there's a lot of people with implants and some may not even notice an issue and some obviously are starting to have issues so like what is there is it a genetic disposition is it the way the surgeon puts the implants in is it size is it like why do some people feel the effects not or is

it something where the implant just has to be in your system for x period of time and then over time you're going to kind of fight these kind of things and the simple way to think about it in our experience which you know encompasses 1500 plus now 35 have biofilm so i'll just say for everybody in the audience so biofilm to me is an infection i will always just say in those regardless of their genetics you take it out they get better right they were going to get symptomatic at some point if you get them and take them out they're better but what you're asking is the more complicated question is who's actually predisposed to have a problem and so from genetics you have to be in my opinion after looking at several hundred genetic reports on people with breast implants so i've explanted you have to have three to four of those pathways i mentioned

not working properly. And just like Candice, our patient advocate, she had all four that didn't work properly. Whether or not you know that, that person is going to be uniquely susceptible to increasing amounts of inflammation regardless of the device. Hip implant, knee implant, breast implant, dental implant. Yes.

Talk to us about more stories of explants. You talked about my story with the thyroid. What are other things that you've seen that are just wild? So, you know, just recently we had someone, not sauna like you sauna. We're going to talk about the sauna. That's on my list. This gal came and everybody's trying to just take care of themselves. So they know an infrared sauna will help them in the detox process

and sweating will help you in all this. But heating yourself up is not going to help you with a prosthetic device. And the device that we're discussing doesn't have a shell that's titanium. You can heat up somebody with a knee implant. They're not going to leach it. Heavy metals are obviously a problem, and we can get to your story later with heavy metals, but this girl, as soon as I took her implants out, she felt magically better. And she wasn't so much infected as she was basically melting herself in the sauna. So obviously that's a

strong example. Because these implants are not tested in sauna heat. No, you would not put anybody in a trial, FDA trial through that kind of heat. So that would never be part of a protocols in a FDA's trial. So I'm going to say what you are not saying because maybe it can't be said. What I think is that I was saunaing so much with my implants that it started to seep out. Oh, yeah. And make me so inflamed and basically detox the implant into my system. Well, especially, I mean, the sauna's been around forever, but the conversation around people using saunas or putting saunas in their home or going to places on is getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

So more and more people are doing it. And yeah, I mean, we crank that thing up. And also here's the weird thing. I had implants since I was 18. I had two great surgeons. I got them redone five years ago. They were awesome surgeons. But when I moved to Texas, I got a sauna in my home.

Yeah. And I also got an infrared. So I had a barrel and an infrared and I was hitting it. And then that's when it got, the inflammation got worse. But you would think with a sauna that the inflammation would get better. So, but if somebody has any implant, maybe not a titanium, like you said, and they are going to go into a sauna that's 220 degrees, you're saying that the fda would have never tested

heating these things up at that heat so you may think you're going not in a person not in a person so you may think you're going in there to detox but me who has obviously no implants is going to feel much different about your dick what do you mean what about a dick implant well yeah i mean i have to i have to get that removed it's becoming a burden burden. But no, so someone like me, I'll feel great. But someone that may have implants might feel exact opposite because they're heating up and they maybe shouldn't be. Yeah. I think when you feel worse after a sauna session, that should tell you that's not the

right thing. Every single time I would do the sauna, and you can ask Michael, I would need a nap. It was so weird. I thought you're supposed to get energy and I would need to. And so what I kept telling myself was, oh, this is my body's way of intuitively telling me I need to rest. The sauna's telling it, but what it was- You're acutely inflaming yourself. Yes. And I want everyone, and you gave me this example, to think of a hot water bottle in a car. When it heats up, it kind of melts into itself.

Yeah. The thing for you, I thought for sure your implant was infected. I would have taken it to the bank. I had to test it twice, actually, because I didn't believe it. And I'm somebody who believes in what I do. So you were melting your implant. I cranked that thing up to 220. I often say my R-stop is either from my wife or the groundwater.

We don't know which. But Michael might have been trying to melt you. Well, because I think with more and more people doing this, if you have an implant, you might want to think about this. Because we never thought about this. We just thought, oh, you go into sauna. And there's so many studies that show for inflammation and detoxification that sauna could be great, but maybe not for people that have implants. Here's my problem with this conversation. It's so black and white. It needs more gray. There's lots of nuances. The problem is people

are either, I love implants. Implants are great, mine have not done anything, or I have breast implant illness. For me, I feel like I am sort of in the gray. There were things that weren't adding up that were to do something about it, but I don't think that it has to be like so black and white because not everyone is not the same. We're all different. We're all like you said, different genetic makeups. There's there's such a like fight over this. And it's not I feel like there would be more easy conversation if people could just have a normal conversation about it like we're doing right now as opposed to like so well i look at it pretty simply there's i think a lot of people just aren't aware of the potential downsides to getting an implant you only you know people don't talk that you could have these like i mean i've known lauren a long time there was never conversations

of hey you could experience inflammation or you could experience rashes or you could experience, I don't think people correlate the two. And so this is, you know, more and more people are talking about this. And I think it's a fight because many have not had the experience of a poor experience and others are like, whoa, I've solved everything that was going on in my system. Yeah. In 2019, they had a series of hearings that I testified at the FDA. This is about implants and breast implant illness. And so this is mainstream with the FDA. It's mainstream with providers. What it's not clear about, because the data was pretty limited and the pandemic made that worse, we got funding when I was president of the Aesthetic Society's Research Foundation to explore

breast implant illness. And so the studies that have been done show that there's symptom improvement. Some of the things I think could be expanded, certainly, because it's a very limited, they looked at basically 100 explants. Well, I've done 1,500. So I have 15 times the information they have, plus I know all the genetics behind it. So the long story, short story is what you eat, what you drink, where you live, where you work, the air you breathe, your genetics dictate much of this. And you can't pick your parents. You can do better with your environment and what you eat if you can do that. And then you can actually change how your genes are being expressed. So

someone like Candice on her own troubleshooted, trialed and errored it, and basically figured out how to make herself feel better with supplements. So we did all that already. So because I know all the genetics, we created just a series of supplements that helps treat inflammation. So once you can manage your inflammation better, whether or not you really recognize how many symptoms you have, which is what Lauren's describing, she doesn't have all these symptoms, she had some things. If you can lower your inflammation so that your detoxification ability

is more on par with that, then you will not have as many or any symptoms. But if someone, like I said, has biofilm, that's going to be a tougher thing to overcome because your body is going to constantly be in the hamster wheel trying to get rid of that. It senses it. It's trying to attack it, but because of the way it's camouflaged by the bacteria and the biofilm, you can't get rid of it. What is this E block, M block? Why is it so important to remove the capsule? I feel like there's a whole debate going on. Some doctors say that they don't want to remove it.

You are a fan of removing it. I got mine removed. But what's the deal there? Yeah, so my personal series of 1,500, my first 1,000, I had somebody have a breast implant-associated lymphoma. So had I not done the operation the way I try to do it

and take everything out intact, undisturbed, like I did for you, you could easily leave cancer in your chest. And the cancer is cancer specifically from breast implants? That one is, yes. Not breast cancer? Correct, yeah. This is forming on the inside of your scar capsule up against the surface of the implant.

So let me ask you this. If the person did not have the cancer and you left it in, would it be okay? Or are there other things that it's seeping out into your body with? So if there's retained capsule, like somebody didn't remove it and they had biofilm, they'll still be symptomatic. Got it. Because the body will still be fighting what they think is a virus or whatever in the system. Yeah, it's there. That biofilm is still there. Now it's retained just like a package. It's just sitting there. So in my opinion, if I feel like if you're going to go through the explant situation, you might this seems to be to remove the capsule. The funny thing is there's a lot of pushback, right? Oh, it's dangerous, right? You'll hear this a lot. For your audience to know, I've done 1500 plus and I have a less than 1% pneumothorax rate, which is entering the chest and a less than 1% hematoma rate.

It's, you know, relatively speaking, it's a very, very low risk procedure in the hands of somebody who's experienced. But I didn't get that experience in the traditional fashion from cosmetic surgery because I did cancer surgery for so long. So when I would take down a reconstruction to make someone flat, which is perfectly fine in terms of reconstructions if that is what they wanted, whether they began that way or they wanted their implants taken out and become flat, you would take all that material out anyway for a couple reasons. One, they could have an infection because they had an implant.

Everybody knows anytime you had an implant, you could always have an infection because it's not your tissue. The two is the more important is cancer surveillance. You want to make sure that nobody has a recurrent cancer. So predominantly, this has been done in breast, and that's what my basic career was about. And I, in 2016, was asked by a patient who wanted to go flat, would you just do this N-block technique? And I'm like, kind of weird for a patient to ask me that.

But I know what it is, because it's just a pathology term we use. But basically, you want to take out everything intact entirely. And not in every instance can you do that, but you can certainly put yourself in a better position to take care of your client if you're trying to do that because more and more cancers are being found all the time. Now there's breast implant-associated squamous cell carcinoma. There's breast implant-associated lymphomas. So there's no, you know, if you're looking at it from a provider and you're trying to be safe, then, you know, we created a training program to help people, you know,

observe what I do to make it easier for them to execute. And for practices, we created a training program so that they could take care of the patients better, understanding how we take care of them. But it is a very safe and executable operation in experienced hands. I want to discuss and walk the audience through the procedure. First, tell us what happens the day of, the morning of, and I can chime in with my experience. Or maybe even go back a little bit more and talk about what you do before you even get

to the... Right, because you do do pre-stuff. That's good, Michael. Yeah, so our program is predicated on avoiding what can be poor outcomes afterwards in terms of recovery. Because for the audience, you have to figure out what are the sources or drivers of inflammation in order to, on the back end of this, feel as good as Lauren already does. Because not everybody's going to react like she did to surgery. So in the beginning, what I try to get accomplished and what we've become very strict about is what things drive inflammation for you? Do you have food sensitivities? There's tests for that. Do you have a toxic burden already? So have you been exposed

to mold? Have you been exposed to heavy metals? Do you have environmental toxins burden already? So have you been exposed to mold? Have you been exposed to heavy metals? Do you have environmental toxins like phthalates, glyphosates? Glyphosates are the herbicides and pesticides that are sprayed on food. So I'm sure you guys have talked about on the show before. Do you have parabens? Do you use products that have parabens in them? So these are all things that if we don't know about them

and I just do an explant, they're not going to get better necessarily quickly based on their genetics. But because I was high in heavy metals, we thought, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the reason I was high is because I was heating myself up in the sauna and it was coming out through my implant. Right. But if you go to 99% of the people in the world who do this they didn't check that test so you would never know that test right so so we we met like you know six months five months before the surgery i would have continued to sauna making it worse and worse and worse but you guys told me stop with the sauna so i stopped and you still had high heavy metals i still had high heavy

metals so you basically you give us a bunch of different tests so you could really get the lay stop with the sauna so i stopped and you still had high heavy metals i still had high heavy metals so you basically you give us a bunch of different tests so you could really get the lay of the land and also you're able to compare it to when you get the x plant out which i think is like knowledge is power right and you want to supplement those too as time goes by are there things you'll see when someone comes to you in their test you're like i can't operate on you until you do these certain things or just certain things they may have that prohibits them from having an explant? So from an explant alone perspective, typically not. But if someone's got a very, very poor tox profile with mold and heavy metals, lots of environmental exposures, and we do an associated

urine test for just inflammation, if that's all really super high, then we try to be careful with how much surgery we're doing. We will limit things like fat transfers because we don't want to reduce the healing ability of that fat transfer. And you did not want to do, just so I can tell everyone what I did, I got them out, m block right and i wanted to do a lift the best lift that you could possibly do i wanted the highest nipples i wanted my nipples

pointing to the stars and i i did the is it um the lollipop yeah so it's like and you know what this car isn't that bad at all. It's kind of cool, Michael said. I told you even before you did it that I thought it would be kind of cool. The scar is not bad. If people are worried about the scar, I'm not worried about the scar at all. My boobs are so lifted and they look so young and youthful now. Because here's the thing too that people don't realize.

When you get these huge implants that are weighing on your natural boobs, it's making them go down. And so what starts to happen is your boobs start to sag and sag and sag and the nipple starts to sag because you're carrying all this weight. So what we did is we removed my implants, you lifted them up to the stars, and then we made my nipples a little bit smaller. And I did not get a fat transfer because you did not want to put inflamed fat in me. Yeah. So when we're going to talk about how fat transfers work, I mean, just think of the Brazilian butt lift. You should be able to do the same thing, get the same types of results. The

space is different, obviously, for the breast, but fat transfers don't affect cancer surveillance. That's been talked about and written about. they don't create problems for mammography so that the things with like what's the necrosis rate the necrosis rate should be less than three percent so if you get the patient optimized and their inflammation under control and modify their diet and get them on just on you on proper diet and supplementation, you'll create an environment for them to have the best outcome with a fat transfer. So we already knew your inflammation was very high based on our first interactions, and you had a lot of puffiness throughout your upper body and midsection.

So it was not in your best interest to do that. It's best to get it out and recover, and then down the road be in a much better space and position to have it done. By the way, I think I will get a fat transfer, I think. Maybe I won't. My boobs are not like, you told me they're a C. It's not like, there's two guys sitting at the table that have seen my tits. I mean, they're a C. But I could see myself wanting more volume down the road. You had a little bit of dysmorphia, I think, where you thought you had small breasts. And I met Lauren when she was 12. No, I had big boobs.

And I wasn't joking. I thought she was the substitute teacher. I was like a four foot eight kid and I was 11 years old. And I saw it. She was like, you know, I was like a four foot eight kid and you know, I was 11 years old and I saw it. She was fully developed. I mean, it was strange to me the first time you did it because you didn't, you know, the first time I did it, I did two 10 and the second time I did 400. Okay. It's a bit much. It was too big. The farmer's dog has saved my life because my dogs are obsessed with this food. So it's real, fresh, healthy food delivered to your door. It's whole meat and veggies gently cooked in

human-grade kitchens. Everything is designed to preserve the nutritional value of the food. And let me tell you, my dogs go crazy. Both of them like dance in circles when I pull out the farmer's dog. They're absolutely obsessed. So here's the deal. It's amazing if you want to save time because meals arrive in pre-portioned, ready-to-serve packs. Michael is the one that feeds the dogs, which is great. So he takes these little pre-portioned, ready-to-serve packs and gives it to the dog. It's convenient. It's fresh. But most of all, I have noticed since paying attention to my dog's food that their weepy eyes have completely gone away. And I truly think it's because they're eating real food. And to me, it just really supports longevity for the dog. I

also think it just gives them more energy, better breath, and keeps them healthier. So if you want to do fresh food that delivers straight to your door and saves you time, then you have to check out the Farmer's Dog. Get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food at thefarmersdog.com slash skinny. Plus, you get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com slash skinny to get 50% off. That's thefarmersdog.com slash skinny. Go to thefarmersdog.com slash skinny. You get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. pause on the show to talk about one of our new partners, one that I am so excited about, Masterclass. Lauren and I have been huge fans of Masterclass for years now. We've both actually taken multiple classes, which I'll share in a minute. But for those of you that are unfamiliar with Masterclass, let me share a little bit more. Masterclass is accessible anywhere you get your online content, your phone, your computer, the web, smart TV, basically everywhere. They offer

classes on a wide range of topics. Let me name a few of their most popular courses. First, Chris Voss teaches you the art of negotiation. Jon Kabat-Zinn teaches mindfulness and meditation. Gordon Ramsey can teach you how to cook. Matthew Walker can teach you how to get better sleep. Bobby Brown can teach makeup. They have something for everyone. The class that I took a while back was done by Bob Iger, who teaches business strategy and leadership. It was a phenomenal course. Lauren has taken a class by Anna Wintour and also Chris Jenner. They literally have something for everyone. Any kind of interest that you may have or want to get better in, there's something for you. What I love about it is members can explore at their own pace and each class has downloadable materials, guides, recipes, and more. There are hundreds of

them. Both Lauren and I are personally masterclass members and we go back to it here and there, especially when we get a new class that piques our interest. So check it out. They continue to add classes by best-in-class performers, entrepreneurs, authors, and more. I highly recommend you check it out. Get unlimited access to every class. And as a Skinny Confidential listener, you can get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Go to masterclass.com slash skinny now. That's masterclass.com slash skinny to get up to 35% off for Mother's Day. Masterclass.com slash skinny. If you're in the market for a new car, you have to check out one of our favorite new partners, one of our favorite platforms, and that is Vroom. With Vroom, you can shop thousands of cars right from your phone and have your next ride delivered

straight to you. I love all of these groundbreaking industry-disrupting companies that are creating better technology with more choices for consumers, and Vroom is definitely doing that. Vroom is just the better way to buy your next car. No more haggling or negotiating the price of a car so you know you're getting a great deal. There are thousands of cars available on Vroom.com, so you can make sure that you get the ride that you really want. You have a full week or 250 miles, whichever comes first, to make sure your new ride is right for you. This is an amazing feature that protects you as a consumer and makes sure you get exactly what you want. Vroom cars also come with a 90-day limited warranty and a one

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cars. You can buy a car from Vroom entirely online. So next time you need to buy a car, just grab your phone, go to vroom.com and check out thousands of cars. Again, that's vroom.com. Let's talk about the surgery. The day of you wake up, I woke up at six o'clock and met you at the surgery center. Talk us through the whole thing, how long it takes, what it looks like, complications, all the things. We'll talk about the night before. So the night before is really important. So you're given a series of medications really just to help you get prepared for the next day. So Michael has to get you to the surgery center.

So the care provider has to get you there. But I don't want you all ramped up when you arrive. So you take medication the night before for nerve pain, inflammation, and nausea because we don't want... There are rules, right? No throwing up, no vomiting, no coughing, no sneezing. So we just don't want things that raise blood pressure. So we do all this preventative stuff so that they, you come there, you're pretty mellow.

You come get checked in. I get you marked. We had Candice there for you. And then we go back and everything is geared to make the process from an anesthetic standpoint. They're looking at how you're not going to have a sore throat that's bad typically you're not going to have a problem with your voice and then they use a bunch of shorter acting medication like fentanyl that gives you pain relief until i get the first part done now we did yours through a lollipop so for the audience i draw a little geometrical shape and then the think of like a little snowman body and that's what's below the nipple and i take that out and that allows me to tighten and lift the breast to give what

lauren described as a really high nipple position more youthful position but it allows me access to do the procedure and then you know i start and i find how i can just take this out circumferentially so i'm going from top to side to bottom and around it until i get to the back of it when you take it off of the rib surfaces this is where people are worried you know for you know for the client side you're worried about you know your your lung and the plastic surgeons are worried about it but you can see it really well and there's a couple of your lung no no no you can see everything really well and as you roll it off you're just looking at the ribs and the rib surfaces and the muscles. And then, so once that's done, there's something magical that you can do for

the patient that allows you to wake up like you woke up. You can inject a medicine to perform basically a nerve block at the rib surfaces and the muscle between the ribs, as well as the tissue in the armpit and the chest muscle. And when you do that with this medicine called Expro, you get about five to seven days of pain relief. I did not have any pain. It was not painful. I think that's important to mention. And also, I think what is so cool about you is you're the first doctor that I've ever had anything done by that has not prescribed me antibiotics after. So can you talk about that? Sure. Right. So for the longest time,

plastic surgeons probably, and many, many surgeons, over-prescribed antibiotics. And there were some trials done that showed, basically, you don't need to do that. You need to give a dose of IV antibiotics 30 minutes prior to your incision to reduce what's called skin site infection rates, basically. And so we just do that. And is that like if something gets in while you're doing the procedure? Correct. So that stops it. It's for the skin incision, basically. So that's how you should go about it. We have a patient population that has leaky gut, problems with digestion, and we really don't want to create anything more unfavorable. So we've talked about the explant, and I'm sure there's going to be more, but

what are some kind of like aha moments where patients come in and it's like a light bulb goes off. They realize, oh my God, I've had this symptom and I had no idea it was this. We've talked about maybe the inflammation being the lowest hanging one, but you and I were talking some people have developed like an odor or a rash. Like what are, what are some other symptoms that people just may not be associating with breast plan illness that you think is associated? They're going to get, these are bad ones.

Is this a hot button question? These are bad ones. Cause it really affects women and it's fertility. Oh, okay. Now we're getting hot water. Anyways, changing subject.

No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. Keep going. So, I mean, people can't get pregnant. And when your inflammation is super high, your hormones don't work right. And then they load you up with more hormones. And sometimes it still obviously doesn't work right. And you hear these stories where people go through rounds and rounds of in vitro. So the root is you might have something in your system that is causing chronic inflammation like we've covered. Because there's chronic inflammation, they're prescribing you hormone medication that is throwing your hormones all over the place. And end result of that is your

hormones are off, which could cause potential fertility issues. So I've done an explant on a lady who was 40 and cycled for five years, did her explant, she cycled once and had a kid. TikTok's going gonna love that okay so that and then talking about body odor why is why does that happen i think that's coming through the axilla but i have another one i think that it's really the audience should understand that if you have these problems with chronic inflammation, your body can no longer surveil everything that's going on. You will have chronic problems with UTIs. You will have chronic bacterial vaginosis. You will have candidiasis infections that you cannot get rid of. I had a lady using boron suppositories in her vagina to correct candidiasis that was recurrent every week.

And as soon as I did her explant, it all stopped. So when you have too much inflammation, like Michael's pointed out, your body can't do what your body needs to do. So what you're saying is if you have bad body odor and you have implants, your body's trying to tell you something. Well, if you're using a sauna, think it's your it's time to you get them out well so but but the root of this are you saying the potential main culprit here is chronic inflammation that basically throws all the other systems of the body off kilter yeah a lot of people want to know

how significant others respond to this and i would love to hear your experience and then Michael can give his take on it. What do you see, like say a husband and wife come in and the wife's like, yeah, I want to hear all different stories. A lot of women are afraid to get their implants out because of their significant other. That is a fact. In fact, I have a friend that I was texting with and I told my friend, hey, you keep telling me all these things that your wife is experiencing. Could it be her implants? Maybe just look into it in a very gentle way. And the guy literally said to me, no fucking way.

I love boobs. So let's talk about that sort of like dark side of it that people aren't speaking on. Yeah, we need Dr. Manisabit Brown here for today. So anyway, you're talking about the breast playbook, really. So I have obviously seen people get left for this operation after having it done. I've seen very supportive spouses because of like your spouse, Michael, and everything in between. I kind of tell them the same way. If that person left you after this,

they weren't worth fucking having in the first place. So just move on from them and be done with them. So it is a problem. We try to provide as much emotional support. We have a very strong program, and then we refer out folks who need more help. But it is a big problem. But I would tell you i'm fortunate

that the number of spouses and significant others that we interact with are very supportive of having it done because they want to help that their you know significant other feel better and at any any cost it doesn't really matter to them anymore because they've seen somebody suffer through this process what's your vibe honest, like hit the floor. Give your real opinion. Okay, so my perspective, when she first started talking about this, and I, okay, I'll back up.

I have had a suspicion that something was off for a while. And I had to be very delicate in the way I said it because it's your wife and you don't ever want to call her image into question. But I've known her again for so long. And in the last six years, I said, okay, like there's a little bit of inflammation going on that I haven't seen. Like, what is that? We're healthy, we work out, we eat right. We try to take care of ourselves. We have access to all these great people. Something's not adding up. And, you know,

I was just kind of following her lead. Hey, I have a thyroid issue. Hey, hormones are off. Hey, you know, but when she started talking about this and started sharing with me the things she was seeing online and on people like your page, I was like, oh, that sounds like that's what you have. And so when she told me she was going to do this, my perspective was like, yeah, 100% you should do it. Because again, I get to educate myself with people like yourself on this show. And I'm aware of the effects of chronic inflammation. And I was like, okay, if you have that extrapolate that 10, 20, 30 years down the road, this is not going to get better. It's going to get exponentially worse.

Do you agree with that? So when she told me she was thinking about this, I said, okay, good idea. Cause I want my wife to be obviously happy, healthy, and thriving from an aesthetic standpoint for me personally. I mean, this is too much information to the audience. I'm not necessarily the boob guy anyway. The target for me is a little lower to not be too vulgar. And so it wasn't a big thing for me. That being said, I know a lot of guys put a big emphasis on the chest and I get that, but I don't know. It wasn't the biggest thing. I feel like to me know maybe guys that do that have a little bit of a mommy issue i also think what's great about my husband is that he saw me he saw me before like he knows he it's like

here's those old c's again no but but all jokes aside like the the i want my wife's beautiful but the the draw was not her image like it's always been her as a person and so i don't want her to be sick cliche though it's true like too much of the notebook like be real no sure what i also don't want to be in a situation where the person i'm co-parenting with is sick and not feeling good right like that yeah you know he you know he knew there was a problem with inflammation for a while and we were trying to figure it out and once once this all clicked i think it was like for both of us an aha moment. I like them very like black and white. I started thinking, okay, if you're going to have chronic inflammation because of something that's in your system that your body

doesn't want, and you're going to keep going 10, 20, 30 years down the line, that's not going to get better. And also tell me this is wrong. I imagine if you're somebody that has these, you have to do maintenance on them every 15, 20, 30, I don't know how often you have to do it. But if you're a young woman, call it 25, you're probably gonna have to get these redone, what, at least two to three times in your lifetime? Or is that not accurate? Yeah, I would tell you, I was trained in a manner that's very different. I had discussions with my clients from cancer and cosmetic realms about implants starting at eight years after their initial procedure because the experience with cancer is very,

you know, there are a lot more issues with cancer patients because they get chemotherapy, obviously. Many of them get radiation therapy. They'll have capture contractures. They'll have pain. They may have a device rupture. A device, you know, will fail. So you're just operating on them at a higher rate.

And then so that always was like, I better have these same discussions with a cosmetic patient so that they're aware. And that's, you know, I never tried to like, just because it was a cosmetic case, didn't de-emphasize how important having an implant is. Because it's a big deal to have an implant.

Once again, I told Michael, if he had his knee replaced and his knee hurt, they'd be going to the nth degree to figure out what was wrong with this. So why don't they do that in this space? It's just like, I don't know. To me, it's like the ostrich head in the sand method. So I think it doesn't fit a pattern. I also think if it was a bunch of men complaining, it'd be a very different story.

Well, the penile implant thing is hilarious because those things get ripped out all the time, but there's a problem. Oh, there's actually a penis implant people can get? Yeah. Huh. Yeah. Yeah, let's start implanting a bunch of implants into guys. And if guys started complaining, no one would be like, oh my God, these guys are being so dramatic. They would actually take it seriously. Do you think it gets less scrutiny

or there's less of an emphasis on health because it is cosmetic where like say a knee replacement is not necessarily cosmetic? Sure. Yeah. There's also a guilt and a shame of the person who got this

because you do feel like, and I felt like this, there's like, I did this to myself. I implanted myself. This was my decision. And there's like i did this to myself i i implanted myself this was my decision and it there's like kind of like an underlying guilt where you're like how could i like do this to myself in the first place but what i've realized is at 18 years old when i got this no one could have convinced me otherwise you could have told me all the symptoms it was like that's when i and that's the kind of person that i just am in general. And I think a lot of really

young girls are like this. They're like, I'm doing this. This is what I'm doing. I don't care. But here's what I would ask people to consider. What is the plan? Meaning, what is the plan in 10 years? What is the plan after you have kids? What is the plan when you're 50 and you have a different skin texture? What's the plan when you're 70? That's what I think people need to start thinking about. If this subject matter falls in the realm of controversial, which we're no strangers to that realm, what are the things you get pushed back for or people like yourself get pushed back for in this conversation? Let it blow out of scroll. Well, because I try to understand. There's always skeptics, right? And there's probably

people listening here that are skeptical saying, hey, okay, what's this guy talking about? How do you respond to those skeptics? Yeah, they should have never invited me to the meeting if they didn't want me to figure out the problem. I was invited a long time ago to be a vice chair on the committee for breast implant illness. And then I became the president-elect and I testified at the FDA hearings that we try to figure out and apply research to the problem. And as a president, I got that funded. And in my own personal experience, I've tried to answer the questions that either don't get answered or aren't answered thoroughly enough so that we provide color and context around it.

So there's really not an argument. There's just the reality is this happens from chronic inflammation. And then what do we need to do as providers taking care of patients to get them to the other side of it? And what explanations need to be given for why it's happening? Now, I think part of it is we're pretty limited in allopathic medicine in general. We don't speak about genetics very much. It's like not taboo but not understood. We certainly don't have discussions about energy, medicine. We don't have discussions about different ways to optimize pain control with our patients. We just don't do those things. And I get probably a little bit of stick for that because

I'm constantly trying to figure out ways to help my patients. And I really don't care how much, you know, I have to invest in my business to get her the best results. So when we do her fat transfer, if that's what she chooses, the way to optimize her result is use my new stem cell device that we can take her stem cells out, hers, expand them. And then we do her transfer, add more stem cells back because your stem cells out hers expand them and then we do her transfer add more stem cells back because your stem cells help you heal but so it seems like in our country we're built to like not think outside the box anymore where we used to be but now it's all just like closed well i think we saw that with covet and the vaccine well i think there's a group of physicians and doctors and surgeons like yourself and it's starting to maybe more now because information's more readily available

that are starting. When they talk about medicine 2.0, it's a lot of emphasis on after the problem has occurred, how to treat it, right? I think now people are starting to say, hey, how do we prevent that from happening in the first place? And then if it has happened, what are some other things we can do outside of just, you know, the typical, like this is the subscription or the prescription, this is the medicine. Like it's, there's, they're thinking a little bit more outside the box holistically as well and marrying a little bit of Eastern and Western medicine. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I think it's going to come. I think it's going to come in small pockets. We work with companies all the time that blend basically Eastern or Western medicine, because we know that things like pulse electromagnetic field therapy will help with pain. We have a patient with nerve pain right now who needs that,

who's refactored to basic medical care. And whether it's a stem cell treatment or PEMF or hyperbaric oxygen, which you can get in my office. We all know these things help with wound healing. We have lymphatic massage in my office at Lawrence Head. So I'm not going to wait for somebody to bring me the answers to the questions. I'm always going to try to figure those out and be ahead of the game. And part of the reason I don't think a lot of people really appreciate the position we're in is I'm not interested in hearing why you can't figure a problem out. I've already figured that out, and I've moved on from you. So we just want all patients and all the patients who can

benefit from that to understand that. One thing that I think is important to talk about is it's, it is a mind fuck, at least for me to have double D boobs and then you go under the knife and then you have C's when you get out. It's, it's a little bit, and then you're also on anesthesia. Some would maybe not even have that. Well, you're on the pain pills. It's just a lot at once. How do you deal with sort of guiding people through the aftercare? It's the hardest thing ever. So that's why we have Candice. No, it is a difficult problem. And it is, people often have an appointment that ends up in a therapy session, basically, a lot. And, you know, having dealt with so many cancer patients for so many years, but I know it's going to get better. Because you didn't have a mastectomy.

So I know that's basically the worst possible situation for me to deal with. And I dealt with that all the time doing oncology reconstruction. It is from a mental perspective, like you said, and you've told me this, it's mindfuck. It's very hard from an image perspective right off the bat. But here's the weird thing. And I mean this wholeheartedly. If you had paid me $100 million, I still would not put those implants back in. Like that's the mindfuck of it is that I was like, you get these implants away from me.

I don't want them. And when they were out and you go from a double D to a C and it's weird, I still don't want them back in. So the feeling is very like you can't grab the feeling because you don't know what the feeling is. Does that make sense? It's like, you know, you're not, the balance is gone, right? So you have this for a long period of time as part of you. It's like a narrative and an identity.

And then when you take it away, it's not balanced anymore. And you have to balance out the system, if you will. And obviously that's a little bit deeper and it's hard for people to get to that point. And people get extremely frustrated, extremely sad sometimes, very emotional in the office. And that's why it's great to have

someone like Michael who's very supportive because we can only do so much in a very short appointment time. But afterwards, that's where he can be supportive of you just like other significant others and spouses are supportive of their situation. And he was. And let's talk about how great I am for the next 10 minutes. What you did do that really helped is you looked at me and you said you made the 100% right decision. And now that I'm to the other side, I'm like, yes, I feel so much better. But I think that it is important to have a supportive partner. Well, I mean, listen, I'm all, and we've talked

about this, I'm all for people doing things that are going to make them look and feel better. But the key part of that is feel better at the end. If you're doing things and you're not feeling better, you shouldn't be doing it. If there's any kind of vulnerability, one more question for the skeptics out there, for people that are saying, hey, this is not proven that this is what's causing inflammation, or I don't believe that this even innate, these people may actually be people that actually have these symptoms, but they don't believe it could be from breast implants. I'm sure you deal with this all the time. What would you tell those people?

We set up a program to figure it out for them because I don't think you should ever talk from a point where you don't have the data to support what you're talking about. So I've done all that work and people ask me all the time, can I test for this? Can I know who's going to have this problem to get implants? And the short answer would be no. I can give you the genetic profile. I can tell you over time what you should look at. But like you said, you get somebody who's 18, you're not going to be able to tell them what to do. But if I had their genetics, I could tell them this is something that down the road is going to be a potential problem for you. I want to talk about what the breast looks like after surgery. I text Michaela

Peterson who introduced me to you. She told me all about you. We had been texting and DMing and she just gave me all the info. And she said, don't even look at your boobs for two weeks. And I thought that was good advice because what happens if you are thinking of getting your implants out is they fluff up. So can you explain what the boobs go through? So I think the simplest way that I can explain it is if you had breast tissue to begin with and fatty tissue, just think of when someone loses weight. If someone's breast deflates when they lose weight, that means they had a pretty significant fatty layer to begin with. If their breast stays exactly the same when they lose 10 or 20 pounds, then they have mostly breast and a very little fatty layer. So when we're doing these explants, if someone can kind of recollect like

what was it like, that'll give me a little insight into what i expect afterwards i'll also just check and see how much tissue they have but the implant itself compresses tissue and over time it thins and thins and thins and thins and thins now my supposition is that when you take that away the cellular recovery or the fluffing that's talked about depends on those layers. Like how much is the fatty layer? How much is the breast layer? Now, if they began with very little, they're obviously not going to end up with much. But over time, a breast is typically more fatty replaced. So they'll typically be more tissue. So I feel like I've fluffed up double since when I looked at them after surgery. Yeah. I think to begin with, we knew you had a lot of tissue

from the very, very beginning. You just had a bigger implant than you needed really to get a change. And then when we did your explant and I repositioned your tissue, it became pretty obvious you were going to have a C-type breast, which I wish I could provide that result

for every single patient. Because then, just as you are now, you're much more comfortable with the appearance change, and it's not really affecting you from a psychological perspective where some people are just, they get unspooled with the change. Because they go from a double D to an A. Yeah. And that's hard. But you guys have support in office to help. There's therapists.

You guys have the oxygen machine, which I've used, the hyperbaric chamber. It's incredible. You also have lymphatic drainage. You have a balancer that you go in, you guys, and you put this whole suit on. Everything in his office is set up, which I think is so incredible for aftercare. So it's not like you do the surgery in your art project and send us on our way and good luck. It's very much like you really care, like you said, about the patient's experience after removing the implant. I mean, it's its own form of comprehensive care. And the more we get,

I think you ought to look at it like this. You already understand the prevalence and it's only going to get more prevalent. So when you try to build a center like ours to provide excellent care, you know, we want to be able to help people the right ways. And just like in cancer care or cardiac care, the places that are, take a very centric approach to it and provide as much multidisciplinary care have the best outcomes. And that's kind of basically, I've tried to template that for us. You don't do drains. I think that's really important to talk about.

She's hitting all the controversial topics. Well, every single person does drains. You don't do drains. Right. So we'll take some stick about this, but it's okay. So the drainage is, so let's talk about a tummy tuck. So we'll talk about that for a second. So I recently had to do some recertification stuff.

And many of the questions on the recertification portion of the examination I was doing were regarding tummy tucks. But not just a tummy tuck, a drainless tummy tuck. So basically, we don't use drains and tummy tucks anymore. And you can do that because you create a little horizontal line to sutures that decreases the space. And quickly for those like myself, drainage is this to drain? A drain tube, like a plastic tube. Yeah, but he wants to know what the fluid is. So that's the edema fluid.

That's the inflammatory fluid created by your body's response to surgery or injury. Okay, so you don't need that. The body can get rid of that fluid. Because he creates the things. Yeah. So in a drainless tummy tuck, you cut down the space and you can compress the area and that diminishes the amount of fluid production. So for the breast.

How does the body get rid of the fluid if you don't have the. The lymphatic system. You'll absorb it. If you pee it out. Yeah. You'll absorb it. And just like we put her on the balancer pro at our office and she had to go to the bathroom like right after, that helps you eliminate it, right? Elimination is pooping, peeing, sweating. So when I do the breast, and this started with my fat

transfer cases, basically we all know that we can lipo from the breast pocket down to the chest. We've done this, or not, geez, breast pocket down to the abdomen, not the chest, wrong direction. So when you connect those two spaces underneath the skin envelope, the chest we've done this or not jeez breast pocket down to the abdomen not the chest wrong direction so when you connect those two spaces underneath the skin envelope there's no need for a drain because all the fluid just going to go down gravity always takes everything why does everyone do drain still i think it's just because they're churning butter in the olden days yeah exactly i mean drains will get you two things are Or actually, let's do it this way. So everybody who operates for a living knows that a drain does not stop a hematoma or a seroma,

but can lead to an infection because it's basically a piece of plastic. That's coming from the outside of your body, right? So anything that comes outside in is bad. And if you don't need to have it, you don't want to have it. So as soon as we would do cancer operations and we were faced with putting drains in folks because we had these huge wounds to deal with, we wanted to get them out as quickly as we could because we knew the longer we left them in, the higher the chance of an infection. And so to be honest, if you listen to folks who had drains and had drain site infections, there's not a lot of good things said about that. And there's antibiotic solutions for the pocket.

There's acidic solutions for the pocket. We prefer acidic solution because acid will always dictate a better cytal or kill rate of a bacteria or fungus. Think of something like during the pandemic the pandemic they were like use 70 alcohol or use bleach bleach is just a you know an acid product so in medicine there's been acetic acid used in patients wounds for long periods of time there's been dakin solution which is basically dilute clorox these things all kill bacteria and fungus and other pathogens. So that's basically our mode is to use an acidic environment to control the pocket and then figure out ways to tunnel to the abdomen and the flanks. And of course, when I'm doing fat transfers, which are super, you know, for me,

I want everybody to have the best possible fat transfer result. That's why a bunch of people fly into town for this. We don't want a drain tube that could lead to an infection in a fat transfer patient, but I don't want a drain tube in anybody that can lead to an infection. How long is the surgery for the explant? Really quick, I forgot to ask you that. So average is about two, two and a half hours. Quick break to talk about 21 Seeds infused tequila. 21 Seeds is an award-winning infused tequila. If you know anything about Lauren and me, it's that we love a great tequila, which is why we are so excited

to talk about 21 Seeds. What we love about 21 Seeds is that it's a one-of-a-kind tequila that's infused with the juice of real fruit, which we absolutely love. It's so incredible. It's so smooth and it tastes amazing. Our go-to cocktail has always been a classic margarita, so finding the right tequila to make them is always on the top of our minds. What we love about 21 Seeds is that it's not too sweet. It smells fresh and bright and the flavors are just done right.

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seeds diageo new york new york 21seeds.com all right so i have talked a lot about how I have grown my hair and made it thicker and just like experienced so much less shedding and one of the things that I always talk about is massage for the scalp so this is really random but I've been using a gua sha stone with a specific serum on my hair. And what I'm noticing is my scalp is getting so healthy with the Gua Sha and the serum that it's insane. The serum that I'm using, you've seen it on my Instagram stories, is by Vegamore. So first of all, you should know that their products are 100% cruelty-free and never formulated with harmful chemicals. So what I do is I take Vegamor's Grow Serum. I put it on my hair and then I use my Gua Sha and kind of like massage it in my hair.

And then sometimes I'll put like a silk shower cap on and I'll sleep in it. The serum that I like, like I said, is called Grow Serum. And I just take a Gua Sha and massage it in. You could use your fingers too, but if you're really looking to improve your scalp health, which in turn improves your hair health, and you have to check this out, don't forget about the scalp. Give yourself the hair you never thought you could have with Vegamour. For a limited time, the Skinny Confidential, him and her listeners, get 20% off your first order. You're going to go to vegamore.com slash skinny and use code skinny at checkout. That's V-E-G-A-M-O-U-R.com slash skinny code skinny to save 20% off your first order. V-E-G-A-M-O-U-R.com slash skinny code skinny.

Michael says I can't cook, but actually I can cook. I make a damn good sandwich, and I also know how to get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients with seasonal recipes delivered right to my door. The box comes to my doorstep, saves me a trip to the grocery store, and I can make cooking fun and affordable, but most importantly, easy. They have these tacos that are in a lettuce cup. They're so good. They have like shredded carrots on top. I make them all the time. Literally, if you're not a chef, don't worry. So here's the deal. You can pick from 40 weekly recipes, but you can choose from over 100 items to round out your order. They have snacks, easy lunches, desserts, and pantry necessities. I like to go on and really like curate the experience

that I want because I am tightening up right now and I want to make sure we're really eating the fit and wholesome situation. But they also have pescatarian, veggie, all different kinds of things on their site. I also think this is amazing if you're a mother and want to put like a cute home-cooked, in quotes, meal on the table. It's easy, it's efficient, it's affordable. So here's the deal. You're going to go to HelloFresh.com slash Skinny16, and you're going to use code Skinny16 for 16 free meals. You guys, 16 free meals plus free shipping. So go to HelloFresh.com slash Skinny16 and use code Skinny16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. This is an incredible offer. I'm going to use my own code. That is HelloFresh.com slash Skinny16.

America's number one meal kit. Before you go, if someone's listening and they have an autoimmune, because a lot of people have an autoimmune disorder, how many of them do you think that the breast implant is contributing to this? So when you look back, autoimmune disorders have been around for over 100 years, easy. So obviously they beget implants. The problem is that environment, if it's already preconditioned for inflammation and you add another product to it, a foreign body to it, you're just going to make the propensity to then go on to have higher amounts of inflammation increase. So when I have those discussions with people, I'm like, if you showed up and you already had problems with inflammation from autoimmune disorder, I'd be like, to me, you're not a candidate to have an implant.

That was just my personal opinion. So you're saying if you have the autoimmune disorder before you got the implant, it's probably not to do with the implant, but the implant could make it worse. You're saying you wouldn't be a candidate to get an implant if you had that disorder going in. Got it. Okay, got it. Yeah, you're both right. For me, you want a candidate. And to your point, yes, you would then set yourself.

You're setting yourself up for a potential problem because you already know that you have an autoimmune problem. So you have more inflammatory cells circulating already, right? So, you know, there's no reason to poke the bear. Like if it's already a bad situation, adding an implant like that could potentially make that a lot worse. And you imagine if that person has a really poor diet, high in gluten, high in dairy, you know, a bunch of seed oils or whatever, they're just going to increase their inflammation dramatically. If they are in, you know, living in an environment where there's mold in the ceiling or mold in the HVAC, they're just going to make it that much worse. But here's, here But here's the catch. If you have an immune

disorder and you come to a surgeon, not you, to get implants, you would say don't get them because the implants will make it worse. But if you come and you don't have one and you get implants and then you get one, is it caused by the implants, chicken or the egg? Yeah. So that's the genetic participation we talked about. So like I said, they would say you had Hashimoto's or whatever they told you. You don't. You had inflammation generated from, and I haven't seen all your genetics. I have my suspicions of what they are.

I had hypothyroid, not Hashimoto's. Is that different? It is. Okay. Many of the people who have Hashimoto's are hypothyroid. Got it. And they'll have antibodies. But then when you do their explant, their antibody titers will go way down.

So they're getting all these diagnoses that they wouldn't necessarily get if they weren't chronically inflamed. Yeah, I think when you look at it, rheumatology, the folks who end up seeing these patients, and it's very rote. I get people who are put on Plaquenil, methotrexate, steroids because of these different disorders. And the number of people that come to me with lupus, and I'm just like, did you have lupus when you were a kid no well i don't believe you magically got lupus when you were 35. so i look at it as these

traditional blood markers are showing signs of inflammation and that's where i said the bridging the gap between traditional allopathic medicine and things like we do with functional genomics and understanding better what to test for will provide clarity to the situation. The problem is if you don't show up with a red swollen breast, nobody thinks that's a problem. But I know it's a problem because I've missed one of these in 2016 where somebody had a breast implant infection,

a cancer patient. I took it out and afterwards found out they had an infection. I was like, how did I miss an infection? Because she didn't have any signs or symptoms. It wasn't red. It wasn't swollen. She didn't have anything on her blood work that was abnormal. Her main complaint was she was tired. So I get pushed back on this show. Sometimes they say that I'm not a medical expert, which is shocking to me. I can't believe people would ever say that about me. It's incredible. But anyways, so we have people like yourself on. But what I do say is that the advances we've made in medicine have been so severe, like hockey stick, like if you look at the human existence to where we are now, but we still,

in my opinion, are learning so much and don't know so much about the human body and things that go on. I think there's still so much to learn. But if we would rewind you and I 150 years ago, many of the things you're doing right now wouldn't even be possible, right? The advances that, I mean, maybe they'd be possible, but not to nearly the success rate that you have, right? And not even talking about managing pain. Anyways, this all leads me to say, why do you think someone like yourself, other physicians, when they start to kind of, when they discover something new, or when they realize that something we thought to be true may not be true, or that maybe something we were doing is also maybe causing harm. Why is there so much pushback from the medical community to have these conversations?

And I think we see this in so many other areas, but from a doctor's perspective, because Lauren and I, what we do for a living is we have conversations. We ask questions. We're curious. We want to know. And I can't tell you how many times on the show people say, oh, that's taboo, or you can't talk about this, or that's controversial. And to me, these are all just questions. It doesn't compute to me why certain conversations are controversial. That's where the gray is though. Yeah. But, but my point is, is, and I, and I know you, you've also faced this. Why are so many conversations shut down so hard in the medical community? Money and politics, like there's money in everything, right? The

pharma industry keeps you on drugs. They make money. The food industry is terrible. They keep you sick from eating bad food. And then from my perspective, if you're trying to solve a problem, I don't know how many people are that curious to solve a problem. I'd never like being wrong. I always want to know the best thing I can do for somebody. And so I'm not very satisfied with anything. I don't spend a lot of time patting myself on the back ever. I was trained by phenomenal people, and they were hard, hard mentors. But they were some of the best people that walked the face of the earth that did surgery, plastic surgery, general surgery.

So, I mean, that's why I do what I do. They would have never been satisfied with this weak effort to understand this problem. So we just keep pushing and try to understand it. But it's pure money. It's lobbying money. I think it's a little sprinkle of ego too. A little bit.

I think it's all money and then there's a sprinkle of ego of the my way is the way and I'm unwilling to look at the way that I'm doing it and question myself. Well, I think this is why people get so frustrated and people are so skeptical is because someone like yourself who has a lot more information than the general public when it comes to topics like this, there's a real skepticism and a pushback happening and they call it conspiracy theorists, but it's really just people knowing that people like yourself face questions and topics and issues being shut down purely because of lobbying and money and regulations that may not shouldn't necessarily be there yeah i'm sure after this comes out i'll get a matter a letter from somebody or an email accusing me of some ethics violation that's okay so you know we have studies in place to look at eeg data for brain fog we have a study in place

to look at my results for all of my patients with PCR testing, just like we did for Lauren, to look at bacterial biofilm and compare it. And then we'll have a study in place for drains and study in place for genetics. And so I'm going to provide as much possible data for my own experience as I can, because either people are unwilling to do it, and the numbers that it needs to have done to make an impact are, you know, it's a hard, you know, nobody likes doing the hard work anymore for whatever reason. It's too touchy. Whatever, I don't really care. You know, you got to provide the answers so people understand what they should actually be doing. And I want to, you know, give the best possible information so people can actually make informed decisions.

What are you most excited for me to see in the next three months with my experience? This is fresh. This is new. It's only been three weeks. What do you think is going to happen if you were guessing? You'll be off thyroid medication for good.

You'll probably lose another 10 pounds. From an energy level standpoint, you've already experienced a big, big jump. Less brain fog. Yeah, all that stuff. As your body resets, and we'll get your genetics back soon, and then I can give you some real insight of supplementation, things that, because you're both interested in longevity. So that's your playbook for longevity.

Understand your genetics. That helps you in a huge way. And then you can really do things from our standpoint to leverage that through, you already have a good diet, but you just want to live the best possible life. And aging's not bad, but aging in a way with high amounts of inflammation and pain, that's a terrible life. I should have mentioned too, after surgery in six days, I lost 10 pounds.

So he thinks I'm going to lose a total of 20 pounds, which is wild that I was carrying that. And even when I wore a shirt at an event, I did Dear Media in real life. I felt 20 pounds thinner. And I think it's because your breast implants, and you could speak better on this than me, they get wider and wider and wider and they make you feel more and more matronly. So what you did too is you narrowed me in. So I feel 20 pounds lighter. Is the weight loss, the inflammation going away? Yeah. So when you remove it, I've had drastic examples. One lady lost 30 pounds in a month. Well, and that's just really fluid. So I tell everybody, I mean, I can make you lose 10 pounds this week if I wanted to. I'd just give you a diuretic, right? So this is the body using its

own natural ways to get rid of the fluid. And then what we try to do always, we're using the hyperbaric chamber. We're doing lymphatic massage because we want to push that process for you to get it started as quickly as possible. And I'm doing a heavy metal detox, and I can go in the sauna soon. Yeah, so we partnered with Cellcor to provide really detoxification, and we hired a practitioner in my program just to run this because I want everybody to have the expertise and the attention that they need for that portion of their care. Do you think that the explants are going to go crazy in the next five years?

Do you think it's going to triple, quadruple? What do you think? Do you think people are really starting to see? Well, now that us three medical experts have got together, it's going to... No, but there's people like Chrissy Teigen talking about getting it removed. Victoria Beckham talked about it. Danica Patrick.

You have all these people opening up about it. Yeah, it'll be the fastest growing procedure in plastic surgery. They don't really want it to be, and that's why I get all the nasty grams, but it's okay. Are you going to do dick explants? Well, are they saying it's going to...

Michael, let's do a consult right now. Maybe I get a fat removal. I leave that to the urology folks. Do you think this is happening now because so many people have started to discover like, oh, I've been doing all of these other things to try to manage this chronic inflammation? It's because knowledge is power and people are taking their health in their own hands and they're realizing, oh, I'm not feeling like shit because I'm postpartum or I'm getting older

or I'm making an excuse because I'm now 35 or 45. They're being like, I don't feel good. Why? And they're being their own guru. Well, I think in the world, I think the world is always moving at its own pace, but information flies so much faster now and people can get it so much easier

that stuff that's maybe handled behind closed doors or in smaller groups and smaller conversations, information flies so much faster now and people can get it so much easier that you know stuff that's maybe handled behind closed doors or in smaller groups and smaller conversations like it's instantly as soon as something catches it just goes yeah it's a movement now yeah and all we've really tried to do is provide the actual what i consider the most important factors about why it's happening to the movement so i don don't have industry relationships, so I'm not affected by them. You don't have a Harvey Weinstein. No. And when people come to see us, I think you all have been in my office.

I'm very plain, right? I'm going to tell you what I think, and I'm going to try to give you the best set of plans to take care of yourself short short-term, intermediate, and long. And also, I think it's important to mention that there are certain implants that have been recalled. So if you do have implants, just knowing if yours have been recalled is important. I know one, the gummy bear texture. Are there any others? So in Europe, no textured implants are available.

Wow. Well, that tells me everything. It's so fucking wild. All right. Where can everyone find you? And then let's also give Candice's Instagram because Candice has helped me through this entire process. I just want to take a minute to acknowledge not only you, but your team, Courtney, Candice, everyone, every single person has been so incredible. The whole thing has been seamless. The person that gave me lymphatic massage, everything is just like great. If people want to contact you, where can they find you? But also if they have tons of questions, sorry, Candice, can you give her Instagram as well?

Yeah. Ours is at breast implant illness expert on Instagram. And our URL is at breast implant illness expert.com. Candice is on Instagram at alisticolife. And so I really think it's important, and I really appreciate you saying what you said about the team. I'm just one surgeon. I have a very, very big team at my office. And Candice sees almost every single patient with us. We have a nurse practitioner, Laurel, and a PA, Krista, who runs our detox program.

But our practitioner, like Carol, who does lymphatic massage, is excellent and really makes a difference in patients' outcomes. And then we have a great team, like you mentioned at the front. We usually do a giveaway at the end. Can I give away a consultation with you? I didn't even ask you. Like 30 minutes, even if it's virtual? Yeah, sure. Okay. can I give away a consultation with you? I didn't even ask you like 30 minutes, even if it's virtual. Yeah, sure. Okay. So if one of you guys has implants and you just want to consult with Dr.

Rob, tell us your favorite takeaway or your experience on my latest post at Lauren Bostic and then follow at breast implant illness expert. And I also want to say, this is not meant to scare anyone. I had implants for so long, and this is just an exploration in the world of explant and sharing my experience and my journey and what I've gone through. I think that like Dr. Rob said, not everyone has problems. There's people that have no problems their whole life, which is fucking amazing. But if you are experiencing symptoms, I think it's important to just hear the whole pie instead of a slice. Well, the way I think about this episode is if you've done everything else and you're banging your head against the wall and you can't figure it out, right? And you haven't thought that this might be one of the causes, I think that's important.

Right. And I have a podcast about breast implant illness. Yeah. Tell us about your podcast. Yeah. So we started this a year and a half ago and I was trying to get information out, but obviously now the message is out. But if you follow our podcast, if you go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify and just type in Dr. Robert Whitfield,

all the shows will come up that I've been on, including the Skinny Confidential when it's up, as well as all of the shows I've done related to breast implant illness on my podcast, Breast Implant Illness with Dr. Whitfield. Thank you. You're incredible. You truly changed my life. I can't wait to see where I'm at in a year. It's been a pleasure to take care of you and look forward to seeing what happens in the future. Thanks for having me on. Thank you, Dr. Whitfield.

If you have a story about X-planning or you just have a story about your implants, I would love to know. DM me, hit me up, say hi. And I hope you guys really love this episode. Feel free to DM Dr. Rob on Instagram. He's incredible or Candice and her post is up on the skinnyconfidential.com. See you next time. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you want to see this visually, go over to our YouTube channel. We're putting everything up on YouTube so you can watch the video and see the whole 360

approach of the show.