The Skinny Confidential Him & Her Podcast - Marianne Williamson - Finding Peace In Chaos, Love, Grief, & The Division Crisis In America

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

#772: Join us as we sit down with Marianne Williamson – American author, speaker, and political activist. A prominent in spiritually progressive circles and the author of 16 books, Marianne uses her voice to inspire positive, peaceful change across America for generations to come. In this episode, Marianne discusses the deep divides in American politics, how to find peace in a troubled world, practicing mindfulness, & the path to healing to unite societal change in the face of modern challenges.   To connect with Marianne Williamson click HERE   To connect with Lauryn Bosstick click HERE   To connect with Michael Bosstick click HERE   Read More on The Skinny Confidential HERE   To Watch the Show click HERE   For Detailed Show Notes visit TSCPODCAST.COM   To Call the Him & Her Hotline call: 1-833-SKINNYS (754-6697)   This episode is brought to you by The Skinny Confidential   Head to the HIM & HER Show ShopMy page HERE to find all of Michael and Lauryn’s favorite products mentioned on their latest episodes.   This episode is sponsored by ARMRA   Go to tryarmra.com/SKINNY or enter SKINNY to get 30% off your first subscription order.   This episode is sponsored by Hiya Health   Go to hiyahealth.com/SKINNY to receive 50% off your first order.   This episode is sponsored by Kora Organics   Visit koraorganics.com and use code SKINNY at checkout for 20% off your first purchase.    This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp   Visit BetterHelp.com/SKINNY today to get 10% off your first month.   This episode is sponsored by Prolon   Go to ProlonLife.com/SKINNY to get 15% off your 5-day nutrition program.   This episode is sponsored by AG1   Try AG1 and get a FREE bottle of Vitamin D3K2 AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase at drinkAG1.com/skinny.    Produced by Dear Media

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. She's a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire. Fantastic. And he's a serial entrepreneur. A very smart cookie. And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostic are bringing you along for the ride. Get ready for some major realness. Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.

Let's all try to give other people the benefit of the doubt. Let's all be more forgiving. Let's all try to have some love here because we need miracles. And we will not be able to do it from a place of hate. We just won't. And we won't be able to do it from a place of separation. We'll only be able to do it from a much more evolved level of appreciation of one another. Love for one another, love for each other's kids. Love is to fear what light is to

darkness. Everybody's scared these days. You get rid of the darkness by turning on the light, and we're going to get rid of the fear by turning on the love, and it's going to make us, among other things, the powerful people we need to be and make this world a better place for our children. Today, we are joined by Marianne Williamson. She's an American author, a speaker, and a political activist. I asked Marianne to come on the podcast because a lot of her message is searching for interpeace. I think with everything going on right now in the country, this is a good one to put out. With that, Marianne uses her voice to inspire positive, peaceful change across America.

In this episode, Marianne discusses how to find peace in a troubled world and how to practice mindfulness. Marianne, welcome to the show. This is The Skinny Confidential, him and her. I don't mean to brag, but I manifested this because I have attacked you for two or three years in your DMs. And I'm so excited that you're finally here. I'm so humiliated. I never read the DM.

Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you. Thank you. What do you see people getting wrong about manifestation in 2024? Well, you know, I'm not totally, you know, this sort of manifestation craze. First of all, I understand why people want to manifest. That's the first thing we have to ask ourselves. Why are so many people needing to manifest something that is so for so many people seemingly unattainable? That's number one.

Why are people living with such a, and having to live in such a state of grasping? That's the first thing we have to ask ourselves as a society. You know, in the 1970s, the average American couple could afford a home and could afford a car and could afford a yearly vacation, could afford for one parent to stay home if they wanted to, and could afford to send their kids to college. So I grew up at a time when there wasn't so much grasping to manifest something because things seem to come easier. So that's from where I stand,

that's the first question. The secondly is there's a difference between using your mind to manifest something versus recognizing that the universe is already manifesting all the time. And that if your thoughts are aligned with the universal mind, much as you and I were talking about a few minutes ago, you weren't thinking about making money when you started your business. The article I read was, I was committed to this blog. I was going to do it. And you weren't even thinking about money. You were putting in abundance. So abundance naturally came back. That's the difference really between magic and miracles. Magic is where you use your mind to make something happen. And there's value in knowing how powerful our mind is.

But the genuinely miraculous in life is the universe supports all living things. And when we are thinking in terms of how can I be the person that whatever your notion of God is would have me be, doing the best thing I can do on the planet to be of service. Everything else will take care of itself. To me, that's the highest, that's the mountaintop. You know, I was listening to this, it was like a clip that Jerry Seinfeld of all people was saying. And he was saying that basically in the seventies and eighties, people didn't think about, Oh, I got to do this to make money. They thought about what they wanted to do as an occupation, what they wanted to put out into the world, what they wanted to write, what they wanted to create,

whatever, what business. And there wasn't that thing where like, I need to do this thing for money. And he said, there was this weird period of time when people started thinking about the money first. And then a lot of stuff became much more problematic for people. Well, first of all, I saw that clip as well. You did. Okay, so you know what I'm talking about. That's exactly what I'm talking about. And it's also true that at that time, because that's my generation too, people weren't needing to be so desperate about money. I mean, when I was in my 20s, it's like,

we didn't have money, but we didn't really have to. We were all like living together in places and we felt we would one day. So I'm not in any way judging younger people who feel a kind of, you know, this grasping quality, because they don't have it as easy as we did. Relatively easy. We didn't have anything, but you didn't have to. Sort of, it was a different time. And yes, it has created attitudes of, well, to be honest, greed and kind of missing out on the joy of life. Have you ever read Morgan Housel's The Psychology of Money? Do you know the book I'm talking about?

No. Well, he wrote this book also called Same As Ever. And he was talking about people from the generation you're describing. You kind of saw people in your vicinity, around you, in your neighborhood. The Keeping Up With the Joneses thing was kind of, you would see maybe somebody down the street that had a nicer house, but it wasn't so crazy. Now you see people all with the phone. You see all sorts of different things. And what he was saying is it creates this feeling where there's like an inferiority complex if you have less than somebody else. And it's just, it's more visible to us as a people. He said he thinks that creates a lot of problems.

Well, yes, but then let's also, once again, let's look at the larger economic picture. Back in those days that he's talking about, the average American could live on just one job. And the average American salary, one salary could reasonably support a four-person family. People had time. People had time to spend with their kids. People had time to talk to their neighbors. So it's both and. It's personal responsibility of realizing that we're accountable and so forth and we shouldn't be greedy but it's also for someone my age realizing well yeah that was a much easier time too I mean think about that we when you have 70 percent of Americans who say that they live with economic anxiety on a chronic level when you have remember you have at this point 46 percent of

Americans who say that they regularly skip meals in order to pay their rent. So the time that he was talking about, the values were more fair and reasonable and loving because it was easier for people to be fair and reasonable and loving. So it's both and. In those days he's talking about, just think about that. Think about the fact that the average American in that time, it was the father usually, but it doesn't matter. The idea of one parent could afford to stay home with the kids, the average American and one job and support the couple and two children. That is not the way it is anymore. If there's someone listening that's feeling that anxiety, maybe they're feeling stressed about money or travel or whatever it is,

how would you sort of guide them to wake up in the morning? They open their eyes. What's the first thing you would tell them to do? There is no religious or spiritual path that does that I've ever read about that does not emphasize the power of the morning. So too many Americans, we wake up in the morning, you go directly to Twitter, you go directly to Instagram, TikTok, your email, the news. Your mind is most open to new awareness the moment you wake up. If you say, okay, social media and news, take me, you are literally giving over your nervous system, giving over your brain, giving over, saying, just eat me alive. Five minutes even, whatever, if you're a person of prayer, if you're a person of meditation, if you're a person of mindfulness,

a person of reflection, even five minutes, take care of your nervous system, align yourself, whether you see it as nature, whether you see it as God, whether you, you know, it doesn't matter. You can get there through religious, spiritual, secular, it doesn't matter, but align yourself with something higher than this assault, this chaotic assault that's just eating at us today. Nobody can be their best. Our nervous systems are under attack and mornings are very important. So it's significant now when you ask for the morning. Now, for me, in terms of my work and the things I believe in, give your life to the God of your understanding today. Give your life to love today. Give your life, first of all,

blast everybody that you know you're going to meet. Blast them with love before you get there. Blast everybody you know you're going to meet with love. Blast everybody you don't even know you're going to meet. And that takes some work because that will probably mean some people you don't like as well as people you do like. Blast your employer. Blast your employees. Blast any colleagues. I mean, it takes some time. That's how powerful your mind is. And align yourself with, I wish to be the person I'm capable of being today in order to be of service to the healing of the world. You align yourself with those kinds of thoughts in the morning, you're going to have a different day. How important is forgiveness in what you practice?

Everything. It is everything. Because where there's love, that miraculous flow of the universe happens naturally. Just like, once again, when we talked about it, I love this blog, I'm going to do this blog, all that. It just, things unfold naturally. Holding a grievance is deflecting the miracles that might otherwise occur. The universe is like an opportunity creating machine, new beginnings. The universe is always ready. And anytime we have a loveless thought or a loveless action, it's like a car that's taken the wrong road. The GPS will automatically recalibrate. But if you're bringing the stuff from the past into the present, it can't happen.

If you go into the day carrying anger, carrying resentment, carrying grievances, you're blocking opportunities right and left on subconscious levels. You know, for what we do publicly, obviously we put ourselves and our life out there on a platform for the world to judge. Sometimes the judgment's good, sometimes bad. But one thing that I've been very forthright in saying for years now is that it could be a tool or it can really be a deterrent. And I wonder your take on the general temperature of the online community and people fighting online. If you're an individual that's doing that and finding yourself angered or triggered or upset and then arguing in comment sections, what would you tell that individual to maybe find a different path or maybe live in a more productive way?

There's an emotional barbarism that has set into our country. Hate, meanness, no mercy, no giving people the benefit of the doubt. And we're all addicted. And everybody kind of knows this now. And we're seeing what it's doing. I mean, obviously the internet has some very wonderful opportunities and possibilities with it as well. It all has to do with what purpose we use it for.

But I think the meanness online, the mean-spiritedness online, as someone who's kind of knows, has been at the effect of a lot of that, the bullying of anybody who has the audacity to disagree with you, I think it's terrible. How can we as a society try to make it better? What are the tips that you would give us collectively? You know, this society has so swerved off course. It's not like there are five easy steps. Right. Energetically, it feels out of alignment. I think you begin with the kinds of things you and I have already talked about, which is in your own life, your own lifestyle.

It has to do with your food. It has to do with your exercise. It has to do with the quality of your relationships. It has to do with your spiritual practice or mindfulness or whatever you do. And then it has to do with taking responsibility for the fact that if we're going to turn this ship around, then each and every one of us has to take responsibility for our part. Whatever your business is, let it be an instrument of all that is good. Whatever your project is, whatever your talent is, use it for something. And ask yourself, is this what I was born to do?

If you ask someone deep in your heart, what is it you really want to do with your life? Nobody's going to say be a bank robber. Everybody really wants to be creating something great. Everybody really wants to be part of something great. And so there's taking personal accountability for are you right now? We need an ethical revolution in this society. People aren't thinking in terms of what is good. Is that the good thing to do? Is it the honest thing to do? Does it have character? Does it have ethics? I mean, we've just lost the conversations around values and i know you know you have children we can't afford for these little ones to be raised in a society where what does it mean to be a good person is not the conversation well i'll tell you this like as a

parent if i catch my children spending a decent amount of their time online, arguing with strangers and insulting strangers, that's a moment as a parent where I'm going to put my step in and say, Hey, that's maybe not the most productive way to use your time. No, absolutely. And I know I would assume, cause you have little ones. You told me you're going to be working on preparing the ground so that you're going to be conscious and aware. I mean, that's one thing. There is a lot of conscious parenting. I mean, conscious parenting is a conversation now, and I'm sure you're involved in it, and I'm sure there are so many books on it and stuff like that. These are the questions people are asking, and that's the good thing, so that when they're so young, you will be preparing the ground and thinking about these things long before that day would even arrive. But I think because of that, there's maybe an understanding of these platforms more so

than the average person. And let me elaborate. If you were to look at the average person and pull up any of their social media accounts, you would get a reflection of what those people are mostly looking for and mostly consuming on a day-to-day basis. I'll pick on my producer over there. If you pull up his Instagram, you're going to find pictures of a lot of pretty girls, right? He's single, he's dating. If you pull up certain people that are looking at a lot of political stuff and a lot of political strife, you're going to find that's

their algorithm. If you look at mine, like she looked at yesterday, it's like chihuahuas and watches because she looked at a bunch of chihuahuas and I like watches. But the point is, as somebody who engages on these platforms, I understand the algorithm is not bad. The algorithm is just a reflection of what you as the individual are looking for regularly. But don't you think that that's life too? Your life algorithm is a reflection. Meaning the platforms are good at serving you what they think you want to see. So if it's negativity or arguments or stuff that makes you upset, it's going to... So I think the point I make is with our children,

I'm going to be able to articulate and explain to them, if you look for this kind of thing, it's going to give you more of that thing. But for the average person that doesn't understand why am I seeing all of this negative stuff online, it's because you are constantly engaging with that. Well, I have two things to say about that. First of all, it has to do with the society. And everything that you just described about our individual common individual algorithms speaks to the fact that we've lost the sense of the commons it's not a good thing that you're over here with your algorithms and you're over here with your algorithms and you're over here with your algorithms even politically and your algorithms say something completely different than my algorithms say so that's not good news it's not

good news you know i thought a lot about when the Oprah show was on and Jon Stewart was on every night. And it was almost like in the day, every day at three o'clock, we had a town hall on human decency. Most of her shows were about something that had to do with human decency. And that night, millions of people were gathered for Jon Stewart. It was a humorous, but really also intelligent take on the news. When I was young, we had major figures like Walter Cronkite. So the fact that everybody's algorithm is taking them to a separate place, I think is part of what's a problem, especially since everybody's so addicted to their tablet that even when we're not online, we're online.

It's also the best way to reinforce your own bias. Exactly. Absolutely. As we know. Now, secondly, I hate to tell you guys, right now, you're totally in control about what your little children are exposed to. Those days will end. That's part of the art of parenting, almost the grief of parenting. They're going to be, it's not just what you tell them, because there'll be a point where they're with their friends. And as you know, some of the addictive things about that where you would say

to them be positive but their friends say hey look at this and it might be something that you think is more negative but is getting their attention so it becomes very multi-layered with parenting i think it also a lot of work potentially yes yes yes and But you'll be... Oh, if I may, I want to say something. If I would give any advice as a mother, I think the most important thing, because this is part of what used to happen in the old days and doesn't always happen anymore, make friends with their friends' parents.

Yeah. It's so important. So you can feed. There's a real parental field and everybody knows and everybody can report back i talked to dylan's mom and that's not what dylan told her you know that's a little bit even later but it is such a powerful powerful tool that the kids are growing up in a community and it's not only the sense of community, experience of community, but for you guys to have a real sense of what's going on. I am wondering, you worked with Wayne Dyer and Louise Hay.

All three of you are incredible powerhouses. What are the things that you all picked up from each other? Picked up from each other? I don't think we thought in terms of picking up from each other. We knew that we were all doing the same kind of work. I think we enjoyed each other. I don't think we thought in terms of picking up from each other. We knew that we were all doing the same kind of work. I think we enjoyed each other. So when you guys, I guess when you had conversations when there was no cameras or when there was no books, what was that like? The three of you. I mean, I just can imagine the energy in the room. I have to be careful what I say here also because I you know he was he was

very cool and she was very cool same word very different he was just kind of cool she was but she softened when she got older older uh-huh she really softened. I noticed that in the content when I consume her younger she does soften as she got older. And what I would attribute it to, and you could tell me because you knew her, it's almost like she really forgave towards the end of her life. I didn't know her well enough to be able to say where it came from, but I knew her well enough to see that it was happening and that it happened. When you decided to write Return to Love, where did that come from?

Oh, that was an interesting thing. There was a man named Jerry Jampolsky, and he wrote the first book on the Course in Miracles that was a popular version of it. Huge. Every mother had that in the 80s and 90s. They still have it. Love is Letting Go of Fear, right? It was a book called Love is Letting Go of Fear. I used to lecture at that time. It would be in the 1980s. Yeah. And I would speak in LA on Saturday morning, LA on Sunday night, LA on Tuesday night. And then between Tuesday and Saturday, I'd go to some other city. So that week I went to San Francisco. This is your manifestation question. I'm having dinner with Jerry Jampolsky before my

talk about A Course in Miracles in San Francisco on a Thursday night. He said, you ought to write a book. I said, well, other people have told me that, but I don't feel pregnant with a book. He said, well, it's in those little cassette tapes. You guys probably don't even, have never seen cassette tapes. We've had these little cassette tapes. He said, well, all the material is in your tapes. I said, well, I don't know how to get them from the tapes to the page. I know how to talk. I don't know how to write. He said, but it's all in there. He said, okay, let's agree right now. And he put his hand across the table. He said, let's agree right now. I don't know if he said, let's agree in consciousness, or he just said, let's agree. I probably just said, let's agree right now. I don't know if he said let's agree in consciousness or he just said let's agree. I probably just said let's agree. There is someone out there who would know how to help you get your material from those tapes onto the page. That's Thursday night. Saturday

morning, I'm in LA. There is a man who introduces himself at the end and says he's a literary agent. But then either he didn't call or I didn't get the call. I don't know. Never connected with that guy. Never either heard from him. I don't know. One week to the night, seven days after the talk in San Francisco, I'm giving a talk in New York on the Course in Miracles. And there's a line of people who want to talk to me at the end. And there's one man at the end of the line. And I have a sense, I have destiny with him. And he came up and he introduced himself. He said, have you thought about writing a book? I said, well, other people said that, but I don't feel pregnant with the book. He said, it's in those tapes. I said, I don't know how to get them from the tapes to the page.

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When you saw what that book did and how many people resonated with it, were you blown away? Because this is before social media. Well, I want to go back to the story I read about you. I didn't have bestseller in my consciousness. And my career niche didn't exist yet. So there was nothing to be ambitious for. Got it.

I thought when this lady, Oprah Winfrey, called my house, I thought, well, she's so nice. She said, that's so nice. She said she wants me. I'm like, clueless. And that idiot savant aspect of everything, exactly what you were saying. So, yeah, I was thrilled. I remember I said to my boyfriend at the time, do you think it'll be, do you think it'll like sell enough that I won't be embarrassed? And he said, yeah, I mean, it won't be Iron John or anything, but.

So when Oprah Winfrey calls you and you start going on her show, what was that like for you? She was so magnificent. And, you know, she, well, there are no words for my gratitude to her. I do remember at one point she told me during a break, speak less, I can sell your book better than you can. She was magnificent. She opened the world of, you know, that book would never have become

what it did without. Yeah. Were you always a child who was very intuitive and energetic? What was your childhood like to bring you to who you are? I was loved. I had a very interesting father. We traveled all over the world. My father was a real magical kind of guy. He was really something, really something. What did he do? He was an immigration lawyer. And he is kind of a cross between William Kunstler and Zorba the Greek, but you probably don't know who William Kunstler is. So William, you know, it's like getting all this so interesting. So William Kunstler was a famous left-wing lawyer that had to do with the Chicago Seven. So he was just a magical person.

And my mother was a very good, you know, I always feel when I say something like that now, I'm not giving my mother the credit for how he couldn't have done all the things he did if she hadn't made it happen, you know? It goes back to what you were saying before. I didn't realize how lucky I was because that was just life then. We all, like, lived in, like, Dick Van Dyke's house. And even then, of course, there were people who were not. But it was somehow more of an average American experience. What was the eureka moment for you where you started applying all these practices to your life? Was it A Course in Miracles?

Well, I think we want to be careful with the idea of eureka moments. Because everybody has moments of clarity. I think you just start growing up. Now, when I was younger, I was always interested in anything that had to do with higher consciousness. It could be the I Ching. It could be tarot cards. It could be St. Teresa. It could be Alan Watts. It could be Ram Dass. It could be St. Thomas of Aquinas. If it was exoteric, it was esoteric. I just was always fascinated in anything like that. And in my generation, like in college, you read Ram Dass and Alan Watts, all this philosophical stuff in the morning. And then you went to Vietnam anti-war protests in the afternoon.

At that time, it was the counterculture. It was everything. It was sexual, it was musical, it was cultural, it was relational, and it was political. People didn't have their lanes. It was just a sense of newness. So for me, the part of it that was most fascinating was the philosophical and the religious ideas, but I didn't know how to apply them to my life in any meaningful way. I just couldn't. They were abstractions to me that I didn't seem to really help with my love life or my body or whatever. So when I was in my mid-20s living here in New York City, I picked up a book on a coffee table called A Course in Miracles. Now, the Course doesn't claim to have

any monopoly on truth. I think there's one truth spoken many different ways, secular, religious, spiritual. So the course doesn't aim at a monopoly on truth. But for me, it was the key, oh, I get how to practice it. Because before that, I hadn't realized it doesn't mean anything unless you're loving the person in front of you. It doesn't mean anything unless you're thinking with love and forgiveness. None of the other stuff's going to work. And then that just opened up a world of possibility. Have you found after all your practices that to still be the foundation? You have to love yourself. You have to practice forgiveness. Are those still the pillars? Well, you know, there's business,

you just said love yourself. I do remind you that Jesus didn't come to earth to say love yourself. He said love one another. So yes, we have to have healthy self-esteem. We have to have healthy self-care. But you know, some of this love yourself craze, it's like, I'm concerned with some of it these days.

I think some of what people call self-care, in my day, we call selfishness. You know, self-care, yes. Your own healthy boundaries, taking care of food, sleep, exercise, and so forth. But living for yourself is not the key here. Living for others is where you find yourself. There's a line in The Course in Miracles

where it says, do not look to yourself to find yourself, for that is not where you are. You know, it's funny. We were with Bill Maher of all people recently, and I was telling him while we were doing the show together that in a weird way, Lauren and I were on the cusp of one of the last generations to grow up going through school and college, which are formidable years, without smartphones and without technology. So in a strange way, even though we're younger in age to the generations beneath us, we maybe relate more to the generations above us because we were like one of the last generations to grow up without this kind of technology. Right. And one of the things we do on this show is we have people from all walks of life and

all different opinions and political spectrums. And as you can imagine, especially this day and age, we will catch flack for doing that. Like I just read a comment earlier and they said, oh, this is a safe space for this kind of political thought. And I didn't respond, but what I wanted to respond was, no, this is a safe space for diversity of opinion. Thank you. And this is so huge today. People have become so siloed. We've got to come out of our silos on every level, your ethnicity, your religion, your sex, your sexuality, your politics, enough with only talking to people that you know will agree with you. And there's this smug... It's a fragility because you're scared to have disagreement. Absolutely, fragility. And it creates a smug self-righteousness on both sides of the political aisle. Well, the easiest way, if you believe you're on the righteous side, it's the easiest way to disregard the facts around you.

Meaning, if I feel like I'm doing the quote-unquote right thing, and I'm not picking any political side of the fight, but if I just feel I'm doing the right thing, then I'm able to negate and disregard a lot of facts and opinions around me because I'm on the right side. That's right. And that's self-righteousness. There's a difference between righteousness and self-righteousness. First of all, no one has a monopoly on the truth. If you think you don't have to learn anything, then you are really ignorant of what life is about. And people don't owe it to you to agree with you. You know, I'm on, I see this so much. I was at a dinner the other night, and my politics are more left. And these people, their politics were more right. And it was a really fun dinner party. And everybody was yelling and screaming, but in a really good way. It was really actually a wonderful party. Everybody was having a good time at the table. And then at one point, one of the men said, which one is right? I said, we're both right. We're both right. And this country doesn't belong to any of it. It belongs to all of us. And we all get to be right. You know, Eisenhower said, the American mind at its best is both liberal and conservative. There are high-minded conservative principles. There are high-minded liberal principles. How come more people don't understand that you can have two ideas at the

same time and two thoughts that are opposing sometimes? What you're saying, you know, we have to rethink everything. Agreed. We are rethinking politics. We're rethinking business. We're rethinking medicine. We're rethinking food, we're rethinking science, we're rethinking education, we're rethinking everything, rethinking religion and spirituality. And there's an evolutionary leap that we need to take, which has to do with the discomfort of knowing that sometimes there are juxtaposing views, and we have to hold all of them with love and compassion. We've done this show for close to a decade. Imagine the audience that would exist and how boring the show would be if all we talked about was some thought pattern that leaned a specific way all the time over and over. And for me, I'm like, how do you actually then get an informed

view of the world? That's wrong. That's what's wrong with the world today. That is what's wrong. And that's why, like I said, we used to have a Walter Cronkite. You now have Fox, which is not in all cases, but in most cases, sort of the mouthpiece for the Republican Party. You have MSNBC, which is most cases mouthpiece for the Democratic Party and You have MSNBC, which is most cases a mouthpiece for the Democratic Party and CNN leaning that way. That's kind of like dangerous. Well, it's interesting doing this type of work

where we've done it for a long time, but I would say in the last few years, definitely COVID and since, there is this pushback in this aggression. If you even have somebody on that leans a specific political way, like it's not even, it's not even what did they say or what was the idea discussed is I can't believe this person would be on this platform.

It's so horrifying unless they were a genuine hater. Sure. Unless, and I'm assuming that we're not talking about Jen because there are some serious haters out there. But somebody who just doesn't see it your way or is bringing up a different view, it's terrible.

This is what council culture is. These days, it's not only do you have to agree with me, you have to say it the way I say it. You have to use the words and the phrases the way I don't. And if you don't, you need to shut up. I think... You need to shut up. You need to shut up. You look at it like what you just said is like the dinner party. I don't want to go to a dinner

party where everyone agrees with me. That sounds like a real boring dinner party. I want dinner parties that have eclectic conversations and color and depth and other opinions. I don't understand this thing where we have to all consume the content that we agree with. Well, it's interesting because the night before the dinner party that I described, that was fun, even though I think I was the only lefty there, but it was fun, actually. The night before, I was with people who I think have the same political views as I. I was probably more left than they were. But the problem was Americans are losing our capacity for critical thought.

Yes. And we're not feeling permission. And that's what I found at the other dinner party. People weren't feeling, and I reminded a few people, like, maybe we should be thinking about this. Maybe we should be thinking about that. And then it was almost like somebody needed to give permission to the table. And these were all intelligent people, high achieving people, but everybody's afraid to talk today. And also it's not just in some situations not afraid to talk, but in way too many cases saying what my political silo says I'm supposed to feel about this. Right. It's like almost you've been robotically programmed.

And if you suggest anything that might be different, yeah, we got to break free. And the only way we can break free is in our own minds. Read books. We have to go back to reading books. Read books. Well, that's the hard... I mean, I personally love to read a lot of history. Me too. Right, that's like my favorite thing. And you read- You guys will have to exchange books. I can't wait to-

Do you read American history much? I do, yeah. Doris Curran's good one? Yeah, I love it. So did you read her new one? Team of Rivals and Leadership. Yes, and her last one is called An Unfinished Love Story.

I've not read that one yet. Oh my God. And the one on Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt, A New Ordinary Time. I've read Team of Rivals and Leadership, but I have not read those two, but I'm aware of them. Oh, you know, read them. She's recommending them.

They'll blow your mind. But I guess like somebody, again, if you read history, you start to realize how fragile society actually can be when people start to think this way where they can't tolerate different ideas and it's a very it's not to be an alarmist but you have to be able to hold opposing views and ideas like i run companies and imagine if i ran a company where the only thing we did were my ideas and I never listened to anyone else about their ideas. You wouldn't have a successful company.

Of course not. And also there's the issue of there are at least 11 states in the United States that do not require even half a year of American history, American government, or American civics. A lot of it is just pure ignorance of where this country came from. And what you have, there are these two major categories in the United States that I notice that both scare me in a way. Scare me is to concern me. People who only want to talk about what America has done right. And they have no listening. And we cannot talk about the shadows. And we cannot talk about any of the like, really like, we weren't always the good guys, you know, no listening for that. But then there's another group equally unbalanced.

They only want to talk about what America has done wrong. They have no listening for anything we've ever done right. No listening for the historical realities that are in fact a lot to be proud of and to build on and even think it's awful to even say that. And I just think we're, I think so many are yearning. That's what I saw when I ran for president. The people are not the problem. I mean, I, it's what's going on in the system, in the political system, in the media system and online. But when I would actually be talking to audiences so many times, people on the right, people on the left, people who voted for Trump, people who voted for Bernie, who I think are craving, could we have a deeper conversation now about what's really happening and about our profound responsibility at this time in history,

and not think only in terms of who's Democrat, who's Republican, who's for Jill, who's for Cornell, who, what do you think about Bobby? What do you, who's liberal, who's conservative, who's progressive? We just have to have an American conversation. One of the main signs of intelligence is flexibility of the mind. And I think we've lost the flexibility of the mind. You just mentioned that you ran for president, which is a huge undertaking. Why did you decide to do that? And what was that like? Well, I think a lot of why I wanted to do it is much like the conversation that we've been having here so i i think that a qualified president today what i think of as qualified for the job is someone who has a professional skill to discern what is really going on in this country

and can articulate that to the American people. And that will mean a lot of looking in the mirror. No system can go forward without cleaning up its past. No person, no system can go forward without taking a deep look at itself. And I feel that much like you and I were talking already about everything's about rethinking. The 21st century is not the same mindset as the 20th century. The 20th century mindset, different from

the 19th, the 20th was a very mechanistic Newtonian paradigm. The world is a big machine, and we're just going to change the world by tweaking the pieces of the machine. The 21st century, and you see this in Gen Z, because they're not 20th century people, far more holistic, far more integrative. I'll have kids in college, they ask a question about antidepressants, and the next question is about drone warfare and what's happening in Syria. And they don't see anything odd about that. They know you can't stay in these lanes. Life is about an integrative approach. It's about what's happening on the inside as well as the outside.

It's about preventative measures as well as treating symptoms. So our political system, in addition to being so profoundly corrupt, is the whole paradigm of it is based in what you and I would think of as old think. It's not an adequate modality of thought to take us forward into a sustainable future. And I thought that I could add that. And I felt that people listening were ready for that. That was not where the problem was. The Skinny Confidential Him and Her Podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. I'd like to thank our producer, Carson, who sits with me as I chug through all of these podcasts day in and day out. He makes sure that I don't go off the rails, makes sure that we get episodes out to you

guys on time. And honestly, he puts up with a lot between Lauren and I. And I wanted to say that because this month is all about gratitude. And along with the person I just shouted out, there's another person we don't get to thank enough, and that is ourselves. It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we are trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world. And that isn't easy. This is why we love Better Help so much. Better Help makes therapy accessible to anyone at any time from the comfort of their own home, their office, on whatever digital device they choose to do therapy from. BetterHelp has been a longtime partner of the Skinny Confidential,

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i've always been a kind of out of the box kind of do my own thing beat at the tune of my own drum type of person right i think like a lot of entrepreneurs are like that right i just at school i was i was always just kind of like mose. And I hate the idea that there's a group of people that I have to side with and decide to think like, just because they have maybe one idea I agree with and another group that has a, you know, I need to be able to, in every area of my life, whether it's parenting or health or wellness or politics or finance, I need to be able to, in every area of my life, whether it's parenting or health or wellness or politics or finance, I need to be able to take a lot of information in and then disseminate all of that and make my own decision. And I think we're living in dangerous times where it's like, pick a side, choose. And I'm like, well, there's a lot of valid ideas from a lot of these groups, but there's a lot of ideas. I think that this idea

that I have to pick and choose based on one moral high ground or another is really hard for a lot of people to come to terms with because there's a lot of things that I agree with on one side and I disagree with on another. And I think it's just not a realistic... If you apply that to any other parenting, for example, there's only one way to parent you either this way or this way or health it just doesn't this is how life works well if we had a parliamentary system it would be easier there would be a plethora of views and they would all have a chance to be platformed we have not only a two-party system but we have something really terrible that's happened in the last few decades. If you look in our past, third party voices were very important. Abolition emerged from the abolitionist party.

Women's suffrage emerged from the women's suffrage party. Social security came from the socialist party. Civil rights came from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference. The parties didn't take up all the power and say it's only them or us, especially given the fact that what everybody's seeing now also is actually you're not as different as you claim to be because you're both funded by the same guys. So that's what people are realizing. This whole left versus right canard is just that. The real dichotomy in America is not between left and right. It's

between the powerful and the powerless, between those who have capital and ever greater access to more capital versus those who don't. And people are seeing that on the left and the right. But on both the left and the right, that voice is having a hard time being heard because of the corporate dominance of both parties. So the conundrum,

the frustration that you're articulating, who's not? I don't know one person who's happy about this election. I mean, I guess some people are. But there's a general sense of something's really wrong that it came to this. Something's really wrong. So it's what we do with this upset. Because if we're not careful, anger, that's very dangerous. We have to take that. And I'm telling you, what you just described is the way the

American mind is supposed to operate. You're very American in the way you talk. Actually, you are what the American mind is known for. It's a rugged individualism, but I want to know, it's not a rugged narcissism, it's a rugged individualism, but I want to know it's not a rugged narcissism. It's a rugged individualism. Don't tell me how to think. And I'm going to go out and do what I want to do. Well, it's hard. I guess like the fun, it's like, this is how I've been my entire life. And so now it's like, don't be that way anymore. I think a lot of people feel that frustration. Absolutely. On the left and the right. And also left and right. Like I remember as a kid, I was probably more in terms of like the way I think socially, like the conservative party at the time, or the, I guess the right was more oppressive in terms of speech and ideas and free thinking and kind of pushing more kind of progressive ideas. And now you can't tell who, like now, that's another thing we talked about Bill Maher. It's like, who even knows even knows what party means what anymore? It's just all, it's all over the place. Companies, big food companies, big chemical companies, big agricultural companies, gun manufacturers, big oil and defense contractors.

That matrix of corporate powers, the organizing principle of American society has shifted away from humanitarian and democratic principles to the idea that short-term profits for these huge corporate behemoths should be our bottom line. And both parties foster it. And both parties are adamant that no one will have too much of a voice here who goes against that. When you were running for president, I'm sure your nervous system was not the same as if you were not running for president. What were the things and the tools that you used throughout your day to sort of center yourself? Centering myself to be a candidate, the kind of candidate that I was, is to be under constant assault. You wake up every morning and it's like the internet alone. You're walking into a dark alley and you're being beaten up.

Lies, smears, character assassination, even infiltration of your campaign. When you run for president, well, this wasn't true in the 2020, but it was true in 2024. The FBI calls you and says, please come down to the office. We want to give you a briefing. And this is the same briefing we'll give to all of the candidates. So I assume all the candidates got it. And it was telling you what to expect and saying, these things are not if, it's only a matter of when you should expect it. And this is what it is. This will happen, this will happen, this will happen, this will happen. And then they say, and the three main suspects are Russia, China, or Iran. Well, all those things happen. And I don't think it was

anything having to do with Russia or China or Iran. It has to do with the forces, the political media, industrial complex here in the United States. We're in trouble. There's some very serious, serious elements of corruption. What do you mean things that happen, like people call, like what you call- They even infiltrate your campaigns. Well, you know- There are people inside there to sabotage you. Oh my God. We have a group of friends that I would say are not even political that have been on this show. One of them's name is Callie Means. And they're really loud right now about the problems in the food industry and the food that's put ingredients for our children.

And there's this simple clip where they show the ingredients that are in Froot Loops in Canada versus Froot Loops. I think it's Froot Loops cereal. The famous thing about the ketchup bottle. It's the laundry list of items that are in this country compared to other. And I think what they're saying is, well, can't we just create a system where the things that are outlawed and deemed to be unsafe in other countries are the same here. And even they become political targets where it's like, this is a food conversation. This is a health conversation. In 2020 on the debate stage, democratic debate stage. I mentioned that I was talking about how we have the highest level of chronic disease of any advanced democracy. And

I said to deal with that. And I talked about the fact we have a sickness care system rather than a health care system. And I said, and of course, to deal with that, you have to deal with your food policies, your chemical policies. And that at that point, Chuck Todd or whoever it was cut me off. And in my food platform, absolutely, there are GMOs, there are carcinogens that are allowed in the United States that are not allowed in other countries that do not have these highest high chronic levels of disease. But it's what I said to you before, these entities, we have five major food companies. I don't know if you've ever had Mark Hyman on your show. Mark talks about this a lot. We have five major food companies and the money that is given by these

huge behemoths. So we have the Food and Drug Administration. Okay. This is an example. When I was a kid, an agent from the Food and Drug Administration could walk into a grocery store and if there's no carcinogen, say, take it off the shelves. They have been completely de-juiced. And I'm sorry, that's the Republicans, not the Democrats, even though now it's the Republicans with Bobby Kennedy going over. So you're right. It's all, well, who's who? But it's called corporate capture. And so the big food, just like big oil, just like defense contractors, military industrial complex, just like big oil, just like defense contractors, military industrial complex, just like big insurance companies, just like pharmaceutical companies, just like gun manufacturers.

They have captured our government. They have captured these federal agencies. They have captured our Congress and turned it into a system of legalized bribery. And what I've come to know is that they've captured our political parties. The American people, the only way to override this is for us to wake up. And just like you're talking, and we're going to listen to people and we're not going to go along with anybody except what our own heart says. And on the primary level, it cannot just be in the general elections. Yeah, I think it's very dangerous to shut out other voices that are trying to sound alarms. If it's a wrong alarm bell and you can at least listen and say, okay, that's wrong. That's a kooky idea. That's crazy. But the idea that you just don't listen because of political affiliation creates a blind spot, I think, not only for the country, but for individuals because you can't disseminate all the information. But it's deeper than, it only appears to be your political affiliation. It's not about whether the left or the right would like you. It's whether big food would like you. Really get to get, it's that corporate piece. Our government has been captured by corporate power.

That is really what we're talking about here. And ever since the Citizens United case, their power to control our government is so great. If some congressman or senator doesn't vote with them on deregulating food, because that's all you're talking about here, they deregulated this orgy of deregulation. There used to be these regulations. You couldn't have this proven carcinogen. I remember a few years ago, there was just this awful, I can't, I could never pronounce it. It's an element in a pesticide that was known to harm a child's brain. What is the ethics? Why would they even want to? It's still on almonds and you still have to check your almond milk for that. I'll tell you how this, like speaking as a media executive, right? So this is my side gig doing this.

My main gig is I run a large media company. And I think a lot of people think it's the media. But what happens is you will have these entities that you're talking about come with huge dollars and they will start to deploy them across media entities. And those dollars start to become one of the biggest line items of income on those companies. Absolutely. And then what happens is those companies start to put some pressure saying, hey, we really need this kind of messaging or stay away from that. And they're not even crazy, just please don't talk about this or maybe talk more about this. And the way that these companies

can respond is they either say yes, and they keep those dollars and more, or they say no, and those budgets get pulled and all of a sudden people's jobs are lost and the companies go. So it's this control. It's every sector of our society. People don't think that that's happening though. And I'm like, I'm telling you as a media person, that's this control. It's every sector of our society. People don't think that that's happening though. And I'm like, I'm telling you as a media person, that's what happens. I understand that. Of course I understand that. People are afraid.

They're clicks. They're brand. Everything's brand protection. Yeah, I'm not going to talk about that. I'm not going to talk about that. The producers won't like it. They won't sell the ad. Yeah, it has infected every corner of our society. What are the things that you think this generation need to look at in the return to love? Like if you look back at what you

wrote, what are the things that you would want to infuse in this upcoming generation? Well, you know, there's an issue in nonviolence political philosophy, the idea that everything you do is infused with the energy with which you do it. And as Gandhi said, the end is inherent in the means. So the idea here is that everything that you and I have been talking about, we will not be able to endure or transform unless we do the things you and I are talking about. In other words, unless we become the people, they're characterological shifts that are going to be necessary in order for us to pull this off. The characterological shift, which will enable us to say, F you, if you don't like it, I'm going to talk about it on my show.

The characterological, I'm going to run for office because somebody needs to say this. You know, and to endure it and to endure. So many people are so upset by the whole thing. But we have to, if you meditate, pray, reflect, mindfulness, yoga, prepare your nervous system. These are very turbulent times. Know that it's happening. Prepare your nervous system. Dedicate your life to being part of the healing. Then you will bring into your life more and more people who share that consciousness. So there will be an exponential growth in the amount of good you can do. So it's a big both and. Martin Luther King said that in order to create the beloved community, we need external changes in our circumstances and internal

shifts in our souls. So like my last book was about Jesus, for goodness sake. It's as much about what's happening on the inside as what's happening on the outside. So from Return to Love, the answer to your question is, who have I not forgiven? How did, at the end of the day, you know, Stevie Wonder used to have a song a long time ago in Songs in the Key of Life. He said, God is the only free psychiatrist known throughout the world for every boy and girl. Ask yourself at the end of the day, how'd I do? Did I show up? Did I, was I there to give something or was I there to get something? Was I as kind or was I as gracious? Did I make other people feel that they were great? Did I, Do I owe anyone an apology?

Do I need to atone for anything? Your greatest product is yourself. So doing a conscious effort to take a self-inventory every single night and waking up in the morning and sort of having gratitude, what are the meditations that you do? I would love to know what your specific practice looks like right now. Well, I'm a student of A Course in Miracles. Once again, the course doesn't claim a monopoly on truth. Truth is one spoken in many different ways. I'm a student of A Course in Miracles, and it has 365 days worth of lessons.

And the first half of the year is deconstructing the thought system based on fear that dominates this world. And the second half of the year is constructing a thought system based on love. So the world, we are living in this world today, particularly for all the reasons we've talked about. We instinctively, we're like mentally trained, go for the judgment, go for the attack, go for the defense, so that it feels almost unnatural to go for the love. What do you do when you meditate? Do you sit in silence or do you listen to the Course? Well, the Course in Miracles, the lessons, you actually say the lesson, you read it, and then you sit in silence for at least 10 minutes. And do you like to

meditate throughout the day, or is it a morning or night? Well, in The Course in Miracles, some of them say, try to do this, try to remember this sentence every five minutes. So I've never been totally, totally perfect on all that. Sometimes it'll say three to four times a day for 15 minutes if you can. I also do Transcendental Meditation, which is the 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the afternoon. They say 10 minutes, you'll keep up with the stress. 20 minutes, you'll get ahead of the stress. Did you train for transcendental meditation? When I lived in Austin in the 1970s. Wow, you were ahead of the time, the 1970s. Well, see, y'all think that we weren't doing this stuff. Oh my God. That's crazy.

So much is going on now that people think is new. It's like- I was with a buddy this morning. You weren't doing this stuff. Oh my God. Everybody, it's like, so much is going on now that people think is new. It's like, I was with a buddy this morning. You weren't there then, huh? And he said, what's becoming, he said,

what's new is old and what's old is new. It's like, it's coming back. Oh, you should go, Dallin. If you could infuse Michael and I, everyone in here,

our audience, with one thing, if you could give us maybe a quote, something that we could just feel good about before you go, what would it be? Let's all try to be gentler.

Let's all try to be kinder. Let's all try to give other people the benefit of the doubt. Let's all be more forgiving. Let's all try to have some love here because we need miracles. We're on an unsustainable path. You know, the Secretary General of the United Nations says it. And we need to pull off something so historic, and we will not be able to do it from a place of hate. We just won't. And we won't be able to do it from a place of separation. We'll only be able to do it from a

much more evolved level of appreciation of one another and love for one another, love for each other's kids. Love is to fear what light is to darkness. Everybody's scared these days. You get rid of the darkness by turning on the light and we're going to get rid of the fear by turning on the love. And it's going to make us, among other things, the powerful people we need to be to change all the things that we've been talking about here and make this world a better place for our children. You are iconic. I am so, so excited that we had you on the show. What a show. Where can everyone follow you, find your content, your books, everything? Thank you. Thank you. At Marianne.com. That's how old I am, right? I got Marianne.com. Yep. And go follow your Instagram too right oh yeah

thank you so much for coming on thank you so much both of you